The only Tesla in that price range here in Colorado would be a 2013 with over 100,000 miles on the clock and hail damage. lol, believe me, I've been looking. I had to settle for a 2017 Chevy Bolt at $17,000. EV's are not cheap here.
@@kentyler3962 You are right I look within 100 miles of Denver and the lowest price for a model 3 with 38k miles is $23,000 usd.... if you are more flexible and are will to drive further there is a Model 3 in St Louis for 12k and Austin TX has one for 15k....both are 2021 so likely not LFP but still a good deal. I would try to get a 2022 as it is sure to have the LFP batteries
I just moved to Colorado - which has a nice state incentive too - so about 12,500 off the right model. As soon as my current car is paid off, I may consider this.
Yes, I'll buy an EV eventually. But it won't happen until I actually need a new car which is a few years away. We have never purchased a new car until the ones we have reached end of their life. By that time the EV market and infrastructure should be much more established.
That is one thought on the subject. On the other hand your life is trickling by (happily I hope) and do you really want to drive an old car till you drop?
I go to Edmunds for a lease of the Ionic 6, and like the Viking says, you get some very good lease deals with very little down, but then the price (without me doing anything) changes after about 3 seconds and flashes up much much higher prices. So this might be some sort of scam. Also, I can buy a Toyota Corolla for 22K. I don't see anything close to that from the model 3. I think this might be wishful thinking from the Viking.
Not anywhere in Europe I’m afraid. In the UK, most are 25% or more expensive, although there are expected to be a couple of models at parity later this year. You still won’t get true mass adoption even with price parity - you need faster charging, more range and much better infrastructure. It will be a few more years before we’ll get there.
US based consumer here. I've been wanting an EV since I could drive. Now that I'm old enough to buy one I can't afford it. I would have been an early adopter if wages had kept up with cost of living but every year I fall more behind. Unless I want to stop paying rent, I can't afford, and decide to live out of my car, that I can't afford, a new car is just not financially reasonable. Maybe the 2025-2026 EV's that cost about 10-25k will be an option if I keep saving between now and then and just accept an insane loan term to pay it off. But if wages continue to stay flat, or fall, and cost of living continues to go up I'll be forced to drive my beat up ICE car that I have hated for decades because it is all I can afford.
Own your circumstances. You have to believe you can. Thinking you can't is choosing giving up. Live these Dave's Ramsey 7 Baby Steps: 1. Save $1000, put it aside in a Folgers coffee tin in your cupboard. 2. Pay off all debts except your house - credit cards, cars, students, etc. SMALLEST TO LARGEST. This is about learning to believe you can win. 3. Save an emergency fund, 3-6 months expenses 4. Save 15% into a ROTH IRA or ROTH 401k 5. Save for kids college 6. pay off your house early 7. build wealth and then give it away I paid off mine and my wife's cars in 2009 and have been putting aside "car payments" into brokerage account since.
@@justinr9753My first car was $75, and I ran it 3 years. Next was $200...... latest was $20K. I always pay cash, never get collision insurance, and I'm way ahead.
To achieve true price parity, EVs will have to be priced the same or lower than equivalent ICE cars without incentives. I'm confident they'll get there as battery prices continue their march toward ever lower costs. Indeed, given BYDs recent price cuts some of their models are less expensive than ICE equivalents now but I wonder what their margins are...
Based on the median value of the preview and excluding the contribution from BYD Electronic, BYD had an average net profit per vehicle after non-recurring gains and losses of RMB 9,100 ($1,270) in the fourth quarter, SDIC Securities analyst Xu Huixiong's team said in a research note today.Jan 30, 2024
Actually, cost parity between ICE and EV might prove very elusive. You replace the engine and transmission with 1 or 2 motors and a big battery. More materials go into making an EV compared to an ICE as EV are heavier than comparable ICE cars. So how can EVs become cheaper to manufacture in the long run? Some of thr savings ev makers make right now come down to manufacturing processes and techniques that can be adopted by ICE makers as well.
If your going to talk EV incentives you need to talk Oil incentives. As for margins it was reported that car dealers lose money on new car sales. But yes the make it up in service and repair.
@@danharold3087did you know that Green energy subsidies in the US is currently the same as oil subsidies? Yet one of them currently has a market share of less than 15% for the same "cost". Question is will we ever break even on green energy if we have to continually upgrade infrastructure and generation to account for YoY energy consumption growth and replacement of older generation hardware.
@@AhjTheMediocre I know about the deception your re-selling. Are you? There is a fair bit to unroll here. If the energy companies did not bribe (lobby) congress to keep inexpensive solar out of the US we would see solar on many more homes. Not only would people charge their cars but they would power their home. Ouch for utilities. Electricity use has been falling due to more efficient appliances. Lots of off peak KWh bandwidth yet to be used for home charging. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE. Have you been introduced into "Reconductoring". Hang new conductors on existing pylons. Reconductoring has the potential to double the amount of electricity that existing transmission systems can handle with lower losses, for less than half the price of building new lines. No right of way issues or lawyers circling like sharks. However it is classified as maintenance and no investment credit. Utilities are not interested. Who stands to make money on this little gambit? And you may have seen in the news data centers are now the new fear. The question is not about breaking the grid. It is about keeping the hands of large corporations in our proverbial pockets.
Total lifetime cost of ownership & operation is already cheaper for many for BEVs than ICE in the U.S., primarily due to cheaper electricity compared to gas. Fully charge a Model 3 for $11, Model Y for 14.40. Filling a Toyota Corolla 2024 in California is $43, Camry is $52, Toyota Tacoma is $70, Chevy Suburban 2WD $115 (28 gal.). There is essentially zero maintenance on a BEV, maintenance on ICE is inevitable and sometimes near continuous, depending on age. Maintenance on the cheapest Corolla in first year averages $63 minimum, year five is $2233. There is no recommended annual maintenance on a Tesla and the suggested schedule is every 2 to 4 years. Tesla Model 3 insurance in Vermont is $1630. Your driving history, state, usual car, etc. all affect ICE insurance costs, obviously.
That’s not a fair comparison when the range on fully charged vs full tank isn’t quite the same. Better equivalent is to look at how many miles a kWh will get you, then compare to how many miles a gallon will get you. For me, on 87 cents of electricity I get 24 miles, which is pretty close to a gallon of gas. Gallon where I am is around 3.50. So my cost per mile is around 75% cheaper. For every 100 miles I drive, it would take 4 gallons of gas. OR 3.50 of electricity.
@@Meatball2022 Your math doesn't make sense and there are no adequate specifics. My family has multiple BEVs and has done the math for years, electricity is MUCH CHEAPER than gasoline. Consistently. If that is not the outcome you are getting you aren't doing it right. Good luck.
@@beautifulgirl219 I own two teslas. Both get on average between 250-300 watt hours per mile driven. So roughly 1 kWh will get between 3-4 miles. Roughly equivalent car gets 24 mpg. So to drive 24 miles, I would use a gallon of gas. Or for my Tesla, would use 6 kWh. 1 gallon of gas is roughly 3.50. 6 kWh of electricity is 87 cents. Why would this math be wrong?
@@beautifulgirl219 It’s hard to complain about a BEV being 75% more efficient than gas and say that’s not enough. But ok. I would suspect though that if you looked at your price per kWh for your electric bill, and compared that to driving efficiency and gas prices in your area, you’d get results closer to mine. My wife drives 500 miles a week. For her, gas would be $75 a week. $300 a month. Instead we pay about $75 extra in electricity. Are you suggesting that’s not nearly low enough?
@@Meatball2022 I agree with this analysis, as I understand it. I may have misunderstood your earlier post. I was trying to make concrete comparisons and was trying to make the point that comparing a specific BEV to a specific ICE was possible and instructive. Some comments assert fact patterns that do not match those I experience. THANKS for your concrete post, I think it is useful and persuasive. Thanks for taking the time to provide the concrete info. Cheers!
Supply and demand is the major driving factor, the economy is another and when prospective customers can't afford payments, there is inventory overstock which drives prices down, if you can't sell your product and have too many on hand the natural thing to do is cut prices, makes sense.
Even a substantially used EV is a great deal. I'm driving a 2016 Fiat 500 E that I got for $7000 4 years ago. The car payments are tiny, the fuel costs are less than what I spend on coffee, and the only maintenance has been tires and some minor repairs totalling less than $3k. BTW the range at 60k miles is still the same as a new one.
@@macrumpton very smart .. ive never bought new .. always buy 4 - 5 years old when a car comes off its lease .. they are usually 50-70 percent less than it was new .. lease cars have a good service history as well
We've seen the plunging prices with increasing sales and profitability model before in IT, and it's no surprise to companies like Tesla. There will be a bloodbath, but the cream will float, and consumers will benefit. Battery performance sigmoid curve meets scaling sigmoid - hello tipping point! Dealers will turn their backs on ICE long before ICE makers want them to - there's another factor. Oil platform workers are being employed in geothermal - same thing. Ultimately, the IRA is the rudder, and it's turning the market pretty effectively. Once tipped, there's no going back.
In my country in Europe there are not incentives whatsoever and EV''s are still at least 30-40% more expensive than an equivalent gasoline/diesel and even Hybrid vehicle...
That's why falling battery prices are so important. The battery is why the cars have been more expensive. The ridiculous obsession with large SUV's is also an issue with EV adoption as they need larger batteries due to being less efficient. Price parity has been reached for small cars with smaller batteries. Next will come mid size cars reaching price parity then the larger SUV's when battery prices have fallen further. It'll happen eventually but does depend on import tariffs that vary massively.
I suspect competition from China will force prices down, but as far as I can see - high prices are because that's what the market will bare; alas nothing to do with costs. EVs are "premium" right now so cost extra $$$
@@Withnail1969 If you would never buy one then it doesn't matter how many charges are near you. If you live in an area with an electricity connection then chargers will be installed it's just a matter of time.
What’s your gas price? It’s currently $4/gallon here in west coast or $1.06/liter, which is considered ‘expensive’. I remember in Europe gas was close to double in price. The breakeven from gas savings for us in US barely exists
For many, adopting a new technology warranty is a decisive factor. I bought a used Model S, which was 3 years old, and had driven around 60k miles. It's now 10 years old and almost has 200k miles on the dash. 7 years warranty for battery and drive train was a decisive factor for me. Adding the lifetime free Supercharger use made it a no-brainer.
In theory it should be cheaper to make an EV, as it typically has fewer moving parts. Also EV motor components seem more likely to be off the shelf and shared more easily across brands, compared to actual ICE vehicle engines.
Actually, cost parity between ICE and EV might prove very elusive. You replace the engine and transmission with 1 or 2 motors and a big battery. More materials go into making an EV compared to an ICE as EV are heavier than comparable ICE cars. So how can EVs become cheaper to manufacture in the long run? Some of the savings ev makers make right now come down to manufacturing processes and techniques that can be adopted by ICE makers as well.
@@jasonettorre7114 At one time Tesla 3 and Y shared around 76 percent of parts between the two. They have been improving the cars so now 3's may have parts that have yet to find their way to the Y. This matters because Tesla made 1.8 million cars last year.
@@dangrecu4034The cost of materials figures into it, but engines and transmissions are very complex and take a lot of design work, precision machining and careful assembly of many parts. EVs have a reduction gear, no transmission. The motor has very few parts and no wearing parts. The inverter and charger use reliable solid state parts. Batteries are coming down in price because of the supply chains being established. Advanced batteries keep pushing costs downward and performance up.
It would be good if you could address the point featured prominently at the start of this video about the cost of repairs. That's maybe a problem when EV enthusiasts have touted the lower total cost of ownership from lower running costs
Rare cars and rarer technicians mean repairs are harder and more expensive. The changeover is happening, so hang in there. And anyway, what do you fix on an EV?
Price parity with $7000 subsidies. Keep them coming...;-) Actually, cost parity between ICE and EV might prove very elusive. You replace the engine and transmission with 1 or 2 motors and a big battery. More materials go into making an EV compared to an ICE as EV are heavier than comparable ICE cars. So how can EVs become cheaper to manufacture in the long run? Some of thr savings ev makers make right now come down to manufacturing processes and techniques that can be adopted by ICE makers as well.
i love your program. but when i look for these amazing deals on hyundais or teslas i can not find them; even used evs are overpriced. i live in southern calif. i'm retired and inflation is killing me. i want a bev so bad! and time is running out for me. any suggestions?
Hi, there, did you see the new BYD A0 class SUV, Yuan Up? Probably will be called ATTO 2 outside China. (ATTO 3 is its sibling Yuan Plus ). Very cool looking car.
Sam, for the record retires in the U.S. typically don't qualify for EV tax incentives as the majority of their income doesn't have significant tax liability. This actually makes EVs more expensive and therefore less attractive financially.
There probably aren't too many people as financially bumbling as myself, but one of the things that had me at least wavering toward upgrading from my 2020 model Y was the idea that the tax credit might be used to offset the liability incurred from converting a chunk of my plain 401K retirement funds to a Roth..
@donaldo1954 New rules for 2024 will allow buyers to get the EV tax credit at the point of sale, rather than waiting for tax season. Unlike current rules, consumers won't need to have a tax liability to get it.
"Price parity" with a couple of big asterisks. . . Because that's relying on the government incentives, and because we're comparing premium and luxury EVs with their direct ICE counterparts, and there are still no real budget EVs as such.
I bought my MG4 last January, and it cost the same as a Ford Focus, and in the UK I didn’t get any incentives. When you factor in my mileage and servicing etc.. I’m also saving about £2k per annum. It’s a no brainier.
The only stumbling block for the normal ice car buyer is the average range of 300 miles for EV is not enough. Not realising they do not drive that distance without a break 99.9% of the time. They also did not realise a recharge of 20mins is sufficient to cover 100 miles or a bit more. More ignorance than anything else.
OK, I'm ignorant. Because I still don't want one. EV proponents seem to have a common habit of thinking that they are the intelligent, enlightened ones and everyone who disagrees is an ignorant, trailer park Neanderthal. That does not help your cause. Liberals say "diversity is our strength" but apparently when you disagree with them they want you cancelled...or perhaps sent away to be re-educated.
The title is misleading. EVs are still about $4,000 more expensive than ICE vehicles, according to Sam. They are only cheaper to purchase if you can take advantage of GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES/REBATES. The rebates to NOT apply to many models, have income limits, and ARE NONREFUNDABLE (you can't get more back than you owe in taxes).
The majority of the video titles on this channel are misleading, if not downright clickbait. Almost no fact checking at all, he just plagiarizes other sources so he can claim he’s just repeating what others are saying and therefore take no responsibility for the accuracy of the reporting
You can transfer the credit to the dealership in exchange for a discount or a cash payment. However you could also claim tax exempt as to not pay anything into taxes during the year and bank the money instead. Then when you file your taxes you can take advantage of the full $7,500 credit towards your taxes owed for the year.
why? If like me, you buy a car to keep, who cares? I have two Toyota Corollas: first is 22 years old, the second, 11. I have no plans to sell them. My next car will be EV.
From some points of view anyone who buys any new car is a sucker. Now that we have that. So long as the new car owner drives his car depreciation does not matter. When he does trade the portion due to price cuts general in the BEV industry do not matter either because the replacement is less money.
EV offerings in USA is insufficient to stimulate mass sales. Not enough pertinently priced EV cars to choose from. Many favorite brands do not have much to offer. (Toyota as example)
@@TeslaDo_d Toyota is substantially smarter and more capable than those brands. They know their customers (who now demand hybrids) so that's what they provide them. The transition to BEV will be done in a methodical way ensuring Toyota stays true to its customer without forcing a solution upon them. Toyota is the global leader in automotive sales, a world leader in manufacturing, and the defacto research arm of the Japanese government. I own Tesla model 3 dual motor and love it. But to think it's appropriate that those who wish to transition cautiously taking time yet have EVs jammed down their throat means Toyota will proceed and ensure ALL customers needs are taken into consideration. Mr. Toyoda is a far better CEO than some of the USA legacy companies. If you need proof simply look at the past 12-24 months financial performance of Toyota. Near record revenue and profit. The demise of Toyota is greatly exaggerated.
@keel5626please take time to look at their financial results and their solid positions and strategic plans. I own a Tesla, but to write off a company as competent as Toyota is just lunacy. I'll smile when Toyota provides customers with cars they want (as they are now with hybrids) and will over time transition along with them to NEVs. #1 passenger car models in USA? Toyota Camry and Corolla. #1 small truck Tacoma. #1 SUV Rav 4. #1 hybrid Prius. 2.25 million sales in USA last year up 6%. Toyota has enormous knowledge of electrified vehicles and 1331 patents on solid state batteries. USA annual sale are still over 87% ICE. Oddly I've never owned a Toyota and likely never will but to write off Toyota shows a huge amount of ignorance to reality. This channel has been predicting the demise of Toyota for years. And always wrong.
@keel5626Let's see,,, Toyota YTD stock price 180-252 or up about +45%! (good investment) Tesla YTD 248 - 172. Down about - 31%. (terrible investment) In fact Tesla is the worst performing stock on the exchange this year. Yes, Tesla has lots of "future" revenue opportunities. But Tesla calls 2024 a "gap year". Are you kidding me?! No wonder Wall St. is skeptical of Tesla. Predicting Toyotas downfall is just ridiculous. Please do your homework. 😊
@@sunrisejak2709 Now that the dealer lots are full again, we shall see how their true sales look going forward. All the legacies have been bragging about ‘sales and profits’ to their dealerships. Now the consumers will choose if the want a hybrid from Toyota or a less expensive and lower maintenance EV from all the new players.
Just went to the MG4 dealer in Netherlands. Cheapest MG4 model starts at €32.000. Believing many EV channels, the prices are "slashed" in half by now . . . . but that will always be somewhere else, not in Netherlands.
Nissan versa entry level price is 18000 American dollars with 380 miles of range and 3 minute fill up. Why limit yourself? America is huge. People with one car need it to do everything cheaply.
I think the crazy thing is that Legacy auto has had the time, the manpower, and the resources to design and release excellent EV vehicles for decades, yet they simply refused to. Gm released the EV1 back in the 90s and everyone loved them, yet they were only available as a lease and GM refused to sell them to the people who leased them. After the leases expired they were all promptly destroyed and the program was shut down permanently. GM didn't even say anything until almost 10 years later and the excuse the ceo gave was that they just couldn't sell enough to make them profitable, yet they didn't even try to sell them! I think what really happened is that the oil industry used its influence and deep pockets to squash the program.
Toyota could have kept their Prius R&D going and had a decent full line of EVs years ago, Nobody would have even heard of Tesla. But no, those gearheads like exhaust noise.
Tesla lowered prices because of reduced demand, it's that simple. They had a 6-12 month backlog of orders now there's little to no backlog, and you can buy a vehicle demo or vehicle that's already been produced at a discount. If Tesla had it together, they could be selling more M3s because of the tax incentive, but instead people are opting for the MY or forgoing the purchase altogether. I know for me, I'm downright pissed at how Tesla was unprepared. I had been waiting for the PoS rebate to take place to buy a M3 because the PoS was worth more, only to find out Tesla didn't have their supply chain in order to quality. As much as I'd like to buy a MY I don't want to pay more than $35K out the door which is a few thousand south of the MY selling price.
With car battery prices predicted to fall as as much as 40 per cent by 2025, with its associated price reduction for electric vehicles, it is game over for ICE manufacturers, ICE cars will become expensive maintenance heavy nostalgic toys for wealthy enthusiasts.
EVs are cheap now, because demand doesn't seem to be great compared to supply. Reports say thousands of EV waiting to be sold in Europe, same in China and probably in US too. What is the price after some of the competition is out and supply matches demand? For people that can't charge at home because they live in an apartment for example (most people in many places) the total running costs of EV at least now don't seem to be cheaper if they need to charge at supercharger that costs a lot more than home. Some say insurance is 2x for EV, and Tesla repairs are expensive also. If one is really on a budget they can get an Dacia ICE for 15k and those prices will react also if EV price competition forces them, so I don't think ICE will be gone unless regulation forces them out.
And expensive maintenance? 😂 I have an 18yo Honda Accord that is still going strong so I haven't replaced it (next one might be an EV, but I'll probably keep driving the Accord as long as it lasts while looking at the market) and all I had to do is replace tyres, oil, other fluids, filters and brake pads, wipers and small things like that. Has been very cheap and insurance is 20€ per month (covers only damage to other vehicles, because car is so old no point in covering that anymore).
@@cyberfunk3793 1. I live at an apartment and have no problems turning up to a public charger once a month to recharge my Tesla Model Y. The cost is roughly 1/3 of what it used to cost me in petrol to fill up my previous ICE car, a small efficient Subaru XV. 2. Yes insurance is expensive, I will have to wait for these dinosaurs to get their head out of the sand, ultimately consumers looking for competition will win. 3. Tesla repairs?, hasn’t happened in my universe, it is the most maintenance free car I have ever owned. Even the brake pads don’t get worn out due to regenerative braking feeding kinetic energy back into the batteries. 4. The last remaining market for ICE vehicles will be dilapidated 2nd hand cars that students and new entries into the workforce can only afford. And rich people wanting to play with nostalgic toys.
Until the other car companies can actually make a profit on selling EVs, the current EV prices are just a countdown to their bankruptcy. Of course Tesla's gonna be OK, but Legacy auto is losing thousands of dollars on each EV they sell, and that's not a sustainable business model. On the other hand, the only way for them to become profitable is to sell enough volume that wrights law will kick in and reduce their costs.
Other issues: Still way to expensive to insure! Sure that will come down eventually, how many years before that happens. Secondly, servicing and charging Infrastructure!
@@mikemars5984 Generally each post like yours is followed by an EV driver showing you are wrong. However if you keep spouting this more insurance companies will raise prices because obviously the public thinks they should.
@@danharold3087EVs are heavy compared to a ICE with comparable size. EVs have large acceleration compared to ICE vehicles. It isn't necessarily right or wrong if insurance premiums will go up when the data insurance firms need to make proper quotes are based on a vehicle with less than 10% market share of currently registered vehicles in the US. I just liked the irony of people who complained a ICE vehicle had 1200hp on public roads, and now, somehow, everyone is on board with putting that weight and acceleration at their fingertips and for sure there will be less accidents because of that. Surely. They are also harder to insure as IF there was an accident, a damaged battery and enough body damage can easily exceed the 70% requirements to classify a vehicle as Totaled. You don't even have to impact a battery directly for issues to happen, not as likely, but it is a possibility with sudden deceleration. And with tesla incorporating whole cast body assemblies, body repair costs with be higher aswell. No more bolt on, it's all one piece!
@@AhjTheMediocre According to Quora, the latest Tesla models (3 and Y) are on par with ICE equivalents. The older models S and X were about 500-1000 lbs heavier than ICE in their class. Yes higher powered cars have higher insurance, especially if there is a bad driving record. However good insurance companies lower the rates after the first year or so. Or simply transfer from existing ICE at about the same rate. We often see EV owners telling this when EV insurance is mentioned. Re castings. The US started making use of unibody cars in the late 50s or early 60s. The same was said about them. The body people will adapt. In the future the most mass produced cars and pickups will use large casting. Simply a cost issue. While Tesla has talked about a one casting car it has yet to be demonstrated that this will work with their unboxed factory method. We need a program to evaluate batteries. Too many cars, I don't have a percentage, are said to be going to Ukraine where they are repaired and sold. Amazing how they can ship all these totaled cars and not burn down the ships. The media and anti EV crowd is again is partly to blame for this hysteria. Been looking at cyberTruck crashes. It looks like one can dismantle and reconstruct the truck with wrenches. Given that there is no pain work involved panel replacement should be less expensive. Yes Tesla has published parts prices and doors at least run neck and neck with ford parts. No paint and it's Tesla for the win. Even if a front casting needs to be replace it looks like a something that can be done. In days gone by the used to talk about replacing a front clip. This may again be possible on the modern CyberTruck. I can see an experienced crew doing this in a lot less time than fixing a conventional car.
The FUD from the haters and legacy auto makers is a big problem. They know that EV’s are the future and they are not ready. GM claimed that they would be the market leader by 2025. They are no where close , and still can’t sell an EV for a profit.
Agreed but the thing is: It's Already too late lol. There are now well over a million EVs driving every day in the USA, same number in the UK and even more in Europe. Millions of people driving Every Day, with no issues at all. The tipping point has passed.
We don't need Chinese EVs in the US market. They just need to be competitive to ICE vehicles in range and price. They are doing good on this year over year.
Will they or will manufacturers just keep that difference for their bottom line? The idea of "we're passing the savings on to you" is kind of out-dated I fear.
Actually, cost parity between ICE and EV might prove very elusive. You replace the engine and transmission with 1 or 2 motors and a big battery. More materials go into making an EV compared to an ICE as EV are heavier than comparable ICE cars. So how can EVs become cheaper to manufacture in the long run? Some of thr savings ev makers make right now come down to manufacturing processes and techniques that can be adopted by ICE makers as well.
@@dangrecu4034 comparing in ICE car to an EV in this way is not correct unless you are looking at something overly complicated like the Nissan leaf. Modern EV'S have so few parts that there is little that can go wrong.
It would be interesting to know what the actual margins are on EVs. Everything we purchase today has its price calculated based on a psychological profile calculated by data collected on us, in order to maximize profits for shareholders.
Price parity, but it's it sustainable price parity? Most EV manufacturers except Tesla are making a big loss on every car they sell, AMD there's the mentioned incentives that we're factoring in, so it's kind of a false picture. What matters more than price parity is cost parity - when most EVs cost less to manufacture than equivalent ICE cars, then we'll be talking.
Sam, the PRICE PREMIUM REMAINS!!! The real cost is time to live or wait till your car charges unless you have home charging !! The INSURANCE COSTS are seeming to be INSANE!! REPAIR TIME is in MONTHS to get completed!!! PARTS FROM CHINESE CAR MANUFACTURERS will cause many to HATE their EVS!!!! YOU are WRONG ON SOOOOO MANY POINTS in a REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE OWNING AN EV!!!!!! OH yea TIRE REPLACEMENT TWICE AS OFTEN!! And FINDING GARAGES WITH CERTIFIED EV TECHS IN YOUR CITY!!!! I mean DEAS WINTER BATTERY AND DISAPEARING RANGE ANXIETY!!!!!!!! CMON SAM WAKE UP !!!! GREAT VIDEO !!!
Posts like yours are invitations to less scrupulous insurance companies to charge more for EV insurance. They create the reality. Such posts are generally followed by people telling how their EV insurance is about the same.
Yes, because everything is "a conspiracy". /s You, like all your ilk, show NO evidence or citations, much less CREDIBLE evidence or citations for your random false claims, AS PER USUAL. No science exists. Only clowns like Trump tell "the truth". /s Run for the hills. /s Meanwhile, in the real world, your ilk wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them in the face, so there's that.
If BYD or other Chinese auto makers make it to the US market. Most auto makers will be toast. Tesla will be fine but I don't see the traditional American auto makers making it - or just collapsing into one for the "America-only" buyers (although most are American in name only).
EVs might be at "price off the lot" equivalence at BMW price ranges. But I don't see it among reasonably priced cars at US dealerships. But I would love to be proven wrong. I am about to buy a **new** Nissan Versa in about 3 weeks. If they are really at price equivalence, you should have no trouble pointing me to a reliable "price off the lot" equivalent car of around $15,000. I might even be willing to pay a small premium just to go EV, so say $18,000 price off the lot. But... no Kia nor Hyunday, as they are nowhere as reliable as a Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mazda. So... which brand and model? Like the old hamburger commercial used to say.... Where's the beef?!!! Anyway, show me a viable EV model at that price and I will buy it on the spot.
And when they actually test the running costs, EV is the same or more expensive if charged at a supercharger in UK and only cheaper when charged at home. Total cost of ownership is what matters and seems things like insurance is double with EV compared to ICE, expensive battery might need to be replaced after 10 years due to degradation if one keeps their car that long. (although the claim is new batteries last a lot longer). Repairs: another example where EV, at least Tesla is much more expensive, afaik that was the reason Hertz was in trouble with their Tesla fleet, damage repairs much more expensive. When I did the math based on UK prices, as long as petrol is less than 1.8 per litre, my ICE would be cheaper than the average per mile costs of EV charged at Tesla station at 60p per KWh.
Only if your silly enough to use a supercharger. Most people charge their cars at home most of the time at a fraction of the price. Unless your away from home most of the time your charging costs will be just a few (single digit) pounds/$ per charge. That's nothing unless your importing your own petrol at mate's rates from your brother in Russia
My understanding is that the business model of car rental companies is based on the expectation that they can buy a new car for $new, rent it to customers for, say, 3 years, then resell the car for $secondHand, and the depreciation cost of the car ($new - $secondHand) is low enough so the company can make a profit in its business. When Hertz decided to add lots of Tesla cars to its fleet, demand for Tesla cars was outstripping supply by so much that second-hand Tesla cars were selling for close to (and sometimes more than) the cost of a new Tesla car. This lead Hertz to think that adding Tesla cars to its fleet would result in a depreciation cost ($new - $secondHand) being remarkably low, and this would increase Hertz's profits. However, what actually happened is that one or two years later Tesla managed to increase its production capacity enough so that supply was meeting demand, and this caused the price of second-hand Tesla cars to drop. To make matters worse (from Hert's point of view), Telsa began a campaign of aggressively cutting the price of its cars. The result of this is that the depreciation value of Tesla cars in Hertz's fleet increased alarmingly, and Hertz realized this was going to be bad for profits. The above hypothesis is based on what I read about Hertz. I don't recall reading anything good/bad about Hertz's maintenance costs of Tesla cars in its fleet. I'm not saying you are wrong; merely that there might have been more than one reason behind Hertz's decision to remove Tesla cars from its fleet. By the way, if Tesla continues to be successful in its mission to speed up the ICE-to-EV transition, then I expect that the value of second-hand ICE cars will drop alarmingly at some point in the future (logic: if most people want to buy an EV, then then the supply of second-hand ICE cars will outstrip demand for them, thus causing their price to drop), and once again car rental companies may find themselves struggling with higher-than-forecast depreciation on cars in their fleet. If so, car rental companies may find themselves in a "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't" situation.
@@mikevanlokven7384 Silly enough? Are you silly enough to think that most people live in their own houses and can charge at home? You don't understand there are plenty of city folk living in apartments with no electric outlets anywhere near their car?
@@CiaranMcHale What I read is that the problem was with repair costs, because Hertz insures their vehicles themselves. So they pay repairs themselves and those were very expensive and slow for Tesla vehicles. Depreciation might also play a major role though as you said.
It's never going to happen. Not enough power in the grid for everyone to have one. What about the EMF radiation risk ? The weight, insurance, range, charging time, useless in winter, rare earth metals to make batteries etc, etc ? Prices coming down because nobody wants them !!
Great to hear from you! Haven't heard any of your trolling nonsense in a while. Was worried that you had dropped off the site. Great to see you pitching in with more FUD nonsense.😂😂😂 obviously you know nothing about science or battery chemistry because rare earth metals are not used in batteries, and Cobalt, which is used in declining amounts in ternary chemistry, is not considered a rare earth metal. Why don't you get educated before you expose how little you know.
Uh-huh. Well, once you get that simple little task done, give us a call. It seems so often that the very people who tout EVs morning, noon, and night also seem to be anti-nuke with equal fervor. They think electricity just comes out of a wall plug.@@GoodBoyGoneDad
This is still the early-adopters wave. It will start to get worse and worse until we have good enough charging infrastructures and better and cheaper batteries.
Cox automotive says the difference has shrunk from 17k to 5k in the last two years. I’ve seen other figures showing a difference of just $1500. This is a weird year in the US because you have OEM’s saying buy a hybrid. Tesla is maintaining their 60% market share because other EV car manufacturers have refused to increase production and lose more money. Late next year when the NACS port starts to get installed in new EV’s, the supply chain is more North America based, things may change. But for now the EV market growth rate in the US is slowing significantly simply because no company except Tesla can make a profit on an EV and sell it at a reasonable price.
Probably the best reason to drive a Tesla is the excellent charging infrastructure. Other brands might profit from Tesla opening their Supercharger network. Tesla might profit from revenues selling the electricity and thus be able to extend their SC network.
I have a Tesla, and your statement that "you don’t use brakes besides regenerative braking" is highly exaggerated. I use maximum regen, AKA “one-pedal” Unless you have a lot of time to slow down gradually, stop signs and red lights or stop and go traffic ensure that maybe half to a quarter braking is used compared to ICE. When you’re above your set charging level or below 20% in older EVs, regen braking also does not work. Sure, the overall load on the brakes is much less per weight of the car, but most EVs are a bit heavier. Because you know better and have admitted to these points in other videos, I hold you to a higher standard of honesty, and downvoted this video. Considering I’ve liked hundreds this is regretable but the best way to send feedback. The main thrust and topic is right, but not because EV subsidies outweigh the price difference. In fact oil and gas are hghly subsidized, so a transparent accounting means that ICE on average cost more than EVs, even over medium time periods like 5 years. We don’t typically see the tax money going to factories, refineries, health care related to injuries and “accidents”. We will not get as much return on investment from fossil fuels as renewables. This is without even considering the cost of infrastructure due to worse weather, then to mitigate and reverse global warming, or related insurance premiums.
@@Gazza-rv8ud "In Australia, for instance, EV owners face insurance costs that are on average $661 higher per year than those for ICE vehicles.". That was February 2024 so seems you are talking nonsense.
In Australia I pay $1000 premium for my $74K Tesla and $850 for my 2022 Isuzu 4x4. So who's talking the nonsense? Don't be talking about things you have no experience with.@@cyberfunk3793
"Used EV prices dropping like a stone". That's no exaggeration, a used 2 year old 2021 Model Y LR that cost a total of $60k in late 2022 is now worth $21k as a Tesla trade in...yikes!!
The battery is thermally regulated to warm in the cold and cool when charging. The motor is also liquid cooled. There's an air conditioner which can cool the car and heat the battery, or cool the battery & motor to heat the car, or (with a heat pump) cool or heat what needs to be cooled or heated. On an ICE this is all run off pulleys and belts off the engine, so there's maintenance and inefficiency, and God help you if it breaks inside the engine. EVs have external pumps and an A/C motor which run more efficiently and are easily replaced. The durability is unknown; hoses and motors don't last forever, but most do.
@@jamesvandamme7786 your correct. But ICE vehicles overall efficiency gets better in winter, as waste heat is now useful. EVs overall are more efficient. Glad to see the use of heatpumps, about to install one for home heating
That's because they raised the prices on Everything - are you just out of your mind? You can't perceive this easy view? It doesn't matter how far the prices come down because they already blew the prices out the top. Everything is at a premium, Everything. Your bubble is thick.
Tesla makes SOME of its money from credits. At one time what you said was true. BUT every car maker is free to build the required cars and sell their earned credits. So don't crap on Tesla for following the rules. Unfortunately they can't build one and sell it without losing money. Tesla had just under $30 billion in cash in December.
According to NPR, EV sales are expected to set another record in 2024 after a record year in 2023. Rate of increase is moderating. Not crashing. It is hard to find exact numbers for the decline in ICE sales. Did find this. CleanTechnica Putting numbers on it, the drop in ICE vehicle demand will mean 2.5 million fewer vehicles this year, 4 million fewer in 2024, 6.5 million fewer in 2025, and a whopping 9.5 million fewer in 2026 for a loss of ICE sales totaling 22 million vehicles over the next 4 years. Many other sites want clicks too. Misrepresenting EV sales is one way to do it. Pander to the ICE crowd.
actually, now might be a good time to nip to your dealers....they are overflowing with cars they can't sell and going broke! There are a lot of good deals to be had, even moreso in the USA, where Dealers are screaming at the manufacturers to stop sending them cars! In the USA, there is over a year's supply of F-150 Lightnings and Mustang Mach-E in stock and their ICE collection is causing serious issues, Dealers struggling to find space to keep the vehicles. The collapse of ICE in the USA has started.
EV prices will be cheaper once some smaller EVs ever hit the US market. We need a truck the size of a 1990s Toyota and a sedan the size of an early 2000s Mazda 3, or early 1990s Civic!
Tesla lowered its prices because of the amounts of past increases they made in 2020 to 2022!! They change prices to help people make a purchase, they are not competing with anyone.
Not even close. It is still incredibly more expensive to own, operate and maintain a Tesla vs its comparable ICE/PHEV/Hybrid. Cost to buy, higher. Cost to insure, higher. Cost to maintain, higher. Cost to repair, higher. Depreciation, higher. Cost to operate City, lower. Cost to operate highway, higher.
Excuse me? Have you only just found that out? Or are you kidding? (no insult intended) If true, I'm beginning to appreciate the level of misinformation and the uninformed number in the world.
@@oldbloke204 you can charge them at any regular socket that has grounding... 120v american sockets arent recommended but apparently still work... some older hybrids could be charged without grounding but thats not a thing anymore
The next inevitable step will be EVs being significantly cheaper. The price of batteries put into cars is now 25% of what it was 2 years ago. Of course running electric cars still only makes sense if you have a home charger or a benevolent employer who subsidises the cost of recharging their employees cars.....this is because public charging is still very expensive.
Largely true about charging, but public charging seems to be getting cheaper. A level 2 Rivian charger charged me USD 0.15 per kWh. The Tesla level 3 fast chargers in my state are charging USD 0.31 per kWh.
I love these comments from Total ignorance. You obviously have not used the Tesla network. We use it regularly. You have no idea what you're talking about
@@douglaswatt1582 You spam the same rubbish, people can easily find and compare prices and many have done comparisons. In UK for non Tesla owners it's 60p / KWh to charge which is more expensive than a ICE vehicle when consumption is about 6L/100km and petrol is cheaper than 1.8/L like it's now.
When are the EV fans going to admit buyers in US & Australia aren't buying EVs because they don't want them not the price. Only place they are any good at all is countries where you can drive across the whole country in a couple of hours.
Clueless nonsense. We've driven cross-country dozens of times in our cars over the last 6 years with the average trip being about 1500 to 1600 mi.. It's a shame you believe all the disinformation and fud
Electric cars are only ok if you can charge at home and don’t go far . I know of people who were suckered into buying one , and either have , or are desperate to get rid of it .
Says the "expert" who does not own an EV and probably never sat in one. I've travel just as far in my EV as I did in my gas vehicle days and I drove gas for 60 years. I've talked to many other EV owners and they have no issues traveling and find it enjoyable as I do. I have also met a many owners who do not have home charging. They just work charging into their daily routine such as the young woman I met who bought a used Bolt and lives in an apartment. She plugs in while at her daily workout at the gym, there is a level 2 Volta network charger in the parking lot. If you really want an EV, you'll find a way.
I love these statements from ignorance. We actually know multiple people on our block with Teslas. They are, as we are, very happy with their cars, they are very reliable, great Road cars, and again you have no idea what you're talking about.
@@muskrat3291 @douglasswatt1582 as you have proved the worst thing about these cars are the owners . One example , a friend’s neighbour ,who I’ve spoken to a few times , swapped a perfectly good Ford Focus for an electric Hyundai , had the charging equipment installed , went to see her daughter 120 miles away, and had to recharge on the way back, this is a woman in her late sixties ,on her own ,she was terrified, in the dark finding somewhere to charge for half an hour. She was told the car would easily to the return journey on a single charge ! Her diesel Focus could do it twice on a tankful .
Price parity?! As but one obvious example, please feel free to price an F-Series ice truck v an electric one and get back to me. With billions in tax payer money going into artificially reducing EV prices, EV's are still far more costly, like for like. What a preposterous claim.
![ผัวเถื่อน - ยูริ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P08ORRVDGl8/mqdefault.jpg)
3:43 I don't ever want to shake hands with a salesperson at a dealership again.
Eww!!!
And not wanting something means it can't happen. Just ask Trump. /s
Yes and the Electric Car Corner in Farmington NY has some great low Milage EV's at low prices.
In the USA you can get used Model 3's for 15k now including the federal used BEV rebate, figure in gas savings and the car is almost free.
The only Tesla in that price range here in Colorado would be a 2013 with over 100,000 miles on the clock and hail damage. lol, believe me, I've been looking. I had to settle for a 2017 Chevy Bolt at $17,000. EV's are not cheap here.
@@kentyler3962 You are right I look within 100 miles of Denver and the lowest price for a model 3 with 38k miles is $23,000 usd.... if you are more flexible and are will to drive further there is a Model 3 in St Louis for 12k and Austin TX has one for 15k....both are 2021 so likely not LFP but still a good deal. I would try to get a 2022 as it is sure to have the LFP batteries
I just moved to Colorado - which has a nice state incentive too - so about 12,500 off the right model. As soon as my current car is paid off, I may consider this.
Yes, I'll buy an EV eventually. But it won't happen until I actually need a new car which is a few years away. We have never purchased a new car until the ones we have reached end of their life. By that time the EV market and infrastructure should be much more established.
It’s pretty well established now, but you’re correct - and it will only get better from here
That is one thought on the subject. On the other hand your life is trickling by (happily I hope) and do you really want to drive an old car till you drop?
Used tesla in Australia for 2019/20 model 3 is still 50k. Way too dear still mate. Ridiculous. Check car sales, i did tonight. Was shocked.
We have Model 3's 2020 for sale in the US for $32,600. But the new 3 is $37,000. Gas is $5 a gallon. I saved $1800 in fuel in 6 months with the MY
I go to Edmunds for a lease of the Ionic 6, and like the Viking says, you get some very good lease deals with very little down, but then the price (without me doing anything) changes after about 3 seconds and flashes up much much higher prices. So this might be some sort of scam. Also, I can buy a Toyota Corolla for 22K. I don't see anything close to that from the model 3. I think this might be wishful thinking from the Viking.
Wait...BYD will soon come to the rescue via NAFTA.
Buy the Corolla
Not anywhere in Europe I’m afraid. In the UK, most are 25% or more expensive, although there are expected to be a couple of models at parity later this year.
You still won’t get true mass adoption even with price parity - you need faster charging, more range and much better infrastructure. It will be a few more years before we’ll get there.
I can wait
US based consumer here. I've been wanting an EV since I could drive. Now that I'm old enough to buy one I can't afford it. I would have been an early adopter if wages had kept up with cost of living but every year I fall more behind. Unless I want to stop paying rent, I can't afford, and decide to live out of my car, that I can't afford, a new car is just not financially reasonable. Maybe the 2025-2026 EV's that cost about 10-25k will be an option if I keep saving between now and then and just accept an insane loan term to pay it off. But if wages continue to stay flat, or fall, and cost of living continues to go up I'll be forced to drive my beat up ICE car that I have hated for decades because it is all I can afford.
Own your circumstances. You have to believe you can. Thinking you can't is choosing giving up. Live these Dave's Ramsey 7 Baby Steps:
1. Save $1000, put it aside in a Folgers coffee tin in your cupboard.
2. Pay off all debts except your house - credit cards, cars, students, etc. SMALLEST TO LARGEST. This is about learning to believe you can win.
3. Save an emergency fund, 3-6 months expenses
4. Save 15% into a ROTH IRA or ROTH 401k
5. Save for kids college
6. pay off your house early
7. build wealth and then give it away
I paid off mine and my wife's cars in 2009 and have been putting aside "car payments" into brokerage account since.
Why do you not like the car you have?
@@justinr9753My first car was $75, and I ran it 3 years. Next was $200...... latest was $20K. I always pay cash, never get collision insurance, and I'm way ahead.
To achieve true price parity, EVs will have to be priced the same or lower than equivalent ICE cars without incentives. I'm confident they'll get there as battery prices continue their march toward ever lower costs. Indeed, given BYDs recent price cuts some of their models are less expensive than ICE equivalents now but I wonder what their margins are...
Based on the median value of the preview and excluding the contribution from BYD Electronic, BYD had an average net profit per vehicle after non-recurring gains and losses of RMB 9,100 ($1,270) in the fourth quarter, SDIC Securities analyst Xu Huixiong's team said in a research note today.Jan 30, 2024
Actually, cost parity between ICE and EV might prove very elusive. You replace the engine and transmission with 1 or 2 motors and a big battery. More materials go into making an EV compared to an ICE as EV are heavier than comparable ICE cars. So how can EVs become cheaper to manufacture in the long run? Some of thr savings ev makers make right now come down to manufacturing processes and techniques that can be adopted by ICE makers as well.
If your going to talk EV incentives you need to talk Oil incentives. As for margins it was reported that car dealers lose money on new car sales. But yes the make it up in service and repair.
@@danharold3087did you know that Green energy subsidies in the US is currently the same as oil subsidies? Yet one of them currently has a market share of less than 15% for the same "cost". Question is will we ever break even on green energy if we have to continually upgrade infrastructure and generation to account for YoY energy consumption growth and replacement of older generation hardware.
@@AhjTheMediocre I know about the deception your re-selling. Are you? There is a fair bit to unroll here. If the energy companies did not bribe (lobby) congress to keep inexpensive solar out of the US we would see solar on many more homes. Not only would people charge their cars but they would power their home. Ouch for utilities. Electricity use has been falling due to more efficient appliances. Lots of off peak KWh bandwidth yet to be used for home charging. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE. Have you been introduced into "Reconductoring". Hang new conductors on existing pylons. Reconductoring has the potential to double the amount of electricity that existing transmission systems can handle with lower losses, for less than half the price of building new lines. No right of way issues or lawyers circling like sharks. However it is classified as maintenance and no investment credit. Utilities are not interested. Who stands to make money on this little gambit?
And you may have seen in the news data centers are now the new fear.
The question is not about breaking the grid. It is about keeping the hands of large corporations in our proverbial pockets.
Total lifetime cost of ownership & operation is already cheaper for many for BEVs than ICE in the U.S., primarily due to cheaper electricity compared to gas. Fully charge a Model 3 for $11, Model Y for 14.40. Filling a Toyota Corolla 2024 in California is $43, Camry is $52, Toyota Tacoma is $70, Chevy Suburban 2WD $115 (28 gal.). There is essentially zero maintenance on a BEV, maintenance on ICE is inevitable and sometimes near continuous, depending on age. Maintenance on the cheapest Corolla in first year averages $63 minimum, year five is $2233. There is no recommended annual maintenance on a Tesla and the suggested schedule is every 2 to 4 years. Tesla Model 3 insurance in Vermont is $1630. Your driving history, state, usual car, etc. all affect ICE insurance costs, obviously.
That’s not a fair comparison when the range on fully charged vs full tank isn’t quite the same.
Better equivalent is to look at how many miles a kWh will get you, then compare to how many miles a gallon will get you.
For me, on 87 cents of electricity I get 24 miles, which is pretty close to a gallon of gas. Gallon where I am is around 3.50. So my cost per mile is around 75% cheaper.
For every 100 miles I drive, it would take 4 gallons of gas. OR 3.50 of electricity.
@@Meatball2022 Your math doesn't make sense and there are no adequate specifics. My family has multiple BEVs and has done the math for years, electricity is MUCH CHEAPER than gasoline. Consistently. If that is not the outcome you are getting you aren't doing it right. Good luck.
@@beautifulgirl219 I own two teslas. Both get on average between 250-300 watt hours per mile driven. So roughly 1 kWh will get between 3-4 miles. Roughly equivalent car gets 24 mpg. So to drive 24 miles, I would use a gallon of gas. Or for my Tesla, would use 6 kWh. 1 gallon of gas is roughly 3.50. 6 kWh of electricity is 87 cents.
Why would this math be wrong?
@@beautifulgirl219 It’s hard to complain about a BEV being 75% more efficient than gas and say that’s not enough. But ok.
I would suspect though that if you looked at your price per kWh for your electric bill, and compared that to driving efficiency and gas prices in your area, you’d get results closer to mine.
My wife drives 500 miles a week. For her, gas would be $75 a week. $300 a month. Instead we pay about $75 extra in electricity. Are you suggesting that’s not nearly low enough?
@@Meatball2022 I agree with this analysis, as I understand it. I may have misunderstood your earlier post. I was trying to make concrete comparisons and was trying to make the point that comparing a specific BEV to a specific ICE was possible and instructive. Some comments assert fact patterns that do not match those I experience. THANKS for your concrete post, I think it is useful and persuasive. Thanks for taking the time to provide the concrete info. Cheers!
Supply and demand is the major driving factor, the economy is another and when prospective customers can't afford payments, there is inventory overstock which drives prices down, if you can't sell your product and have too many on hand the natural thing to do is cut prices, makes sense.
They got the $7500 discount on new EVs , just snag a slightly used one and get the $4,000 used EV discount. Getting an enormous discount
Even a substantially used EV is a great deal. I'm driving a 2016 Fiat 500 E that I got for $7000 4 years ago. The car payments are tiny, the fuel costs are less than what I spend on coffee, and the only maintenance has been tires and some minor repairs totalling less than $3k. BTW the range at 60k miles is still the same as a new one.
@@macrumpton wow the Fiat E here new is 60 grand
@@macrumpton very smart .. ive never bought new .. always buy 4 - 5 years old when a car comes off its lease .. they are usually 50-70 percent less than it was new .. lease cars have a good service history as well
We've seen the plunging prices with increasing sales and profitability model before in IT, and it's no surprise to companies like Tesla. There will be a bloodbath, but the cream will float, and consumers will benefit. Battery performance sigmoid curve meets scaling sigmoid - hello tipping point! Dealers will turn their backs on ICE long before ICE makers want them to - there's another factor. Oil platform workers are being employed in geothermal - same thing. Ultimately, the IRA is the rudder, and it's turning the market pretty effectively. Once tipped, there's no going back.
In my country in Europe there are not incentives whatsoever and EV''s are still at least 30-40% more expensive than an equivalent gasoline/diesel and even Hybrid vehicle...
That's why falling battery prices are so important. The battery is why the cars have been more expensive. The ridiculous obsession with large SUV's is also an issue with EV adoption as they need larger batteries due to being less efficient.
Price parity has been reached for small cars with smaller batteries.
Next will come mid size cars reaching price parity then the larger SUV's when battery prices have fallen further.
It'll happen eventually but does depend on import tariffs that vary massively.
I suspect competition from China will force prices down, but as far as I can see - high prices are because that's what the market will bare; alas nothing to do with costs. EVs are "premium" right now so cost extra $$$
and hardly any chargers here. i would never buy one
@@Withnail1969 If you would never buy one then it doesn't matter how many charges are near you. If you live in an area with an electricity connection then chargers will be installed it's just a matter of time.
What’s your gas price? It’s currently $4/gallon here in west coast or $1.06/liter, which is considered ‘expensive’. I remember in Europe gas was close to double in price. The breakeven from gas savings for us in US barely exists
Now do depreciation!
New car is 50k€, 2 years, 30k... Why buy new?
For many, adopting a new technology warranty is a decisive factor. I bought a used Model S, which was 3 years old, and had driven around 60k miles. It's now 10 years old and almost has 200k miles on the dash. 7 years warranty for battery and drive train was a decisive factor for me. Adding the lifetime free Supercharger use made it a no-brainer.
In theory it should be cheaper to make an EV, as it typically has fewer moving parts. Also EV motor components seem more likely to be off the shelf and shared more easily across brands, compared to actual ICE vehicle engines.
True, but they have to develop almost the entire car, a new ICE car is usually developed off existing, reducing those costs.
It’s the batteries that have been the single driving cost, but CATL says they’re coming down by 50 percent this year
Actually, cost parity between ICE and EV might prove very elusive. You replace the engine and transmission with 1 or 2 motors and a big battery. More materials go into making an EV compared to an ICE as EV are heavier than comparable ICE cars. So how can EVs become cheaper to manufacture in the long run? Some of the savings ev makers make right now come down to manufacturing processes and techniques that can be adopted by ICE makers as well.
@@jasonettorre7114 At one time Tesla 3 and Y shared around 76 percent of parts between the two. They have been improving the cars so now 3's may have parts that have yet to find their way to the Y. This matters because Tesla made 1.8 million cars last year.
@@dangrecu4034The cost of materials figures into it, but engines and transmissions are very complex and take a lot of design work, precision machining and careful assembly of many parts. EVs have a reduction gear, no transmission. The motor has very few parts and no wearing parts. The inverter and charger use reliable solid state parts. Batteries are coming down in price because of the supply chains being established. Advanced batteries keep pushing costs downward and performance up.
It would be good if you could address the point featured prominently at the start of this video about the cost of repairs. That's maybe a problem when EV enthusiasts have touted the lower total cost of ownership from lower running costs
Rare cars and rarer technicians mean repairs are harder and more expensive. The changeover is happening, so hang in there. And anyway, what do you fix on an EV?
Price parity with $7000 subsidies. Keep them coming...;-)
Actually, cost parity between ICE and EV might prove very elusive. You replace the engine and transmission with 1 or 2 motors and a big battery. More materials go into making an EV compared to an ICE as EV are heavier than comparable ICE cars. So how can EVs become cheaper to manufacture in the long run? Some of thr savings ev makers make right now come down to manufacturing processes and techniques that can be adopted by ICE makers as well.
Cars aren't sold by weight. Batteries and motors are dumb, engines and transmissions are complicated to build.
It was not mentioned that tyres on BEVs wears out a lot faster due to it’s obese weights
Not true. My Model Y actually weighs several hundred pounds less than my last SUV, the Acura MDX.
i love your program. but when i look for these amazing deals on hyundais or teslas i can not find them; even used evs are overpriced. i live in southern calif. i'm retired and inflation is killing me. i want a bev so bad! and time is running out for me. any suggestions?
Is Australia getting any savings?
No.
Hi, there, did you see the new BYD A0 class SUV, Yuan Up? Probably will be called ATTO 2 outside China. (ATTO 3 is its sibling Yuan Plus ). Very cool looking car.
I placed a deposit on a Rivian R2 , looking forward to it.
Sam, for the record retires in the U.S. typically don't qualify for EV tax incentives as the majority of their income doesn't have significant tax liability. This actually makes EVs more expensive and therefore less attractive financially.
There probably aren't too many people as financially bumbling as myself, but one of the things that had me at least wavering toward upgrading from my 2020 model Y was the idea that the tax credit might be used to offset the liability incurred from converting a chunk of my plain 401K retirement funds to a Roth..
The funny thing is prices was announced to go down $5400-7000 when they was set to end. We see how that went
@donaldo1954
New rules for 2024 will allow buyers to get the EV tax credit at the point of sale, rather than waiting for tax season. Unlike current rules, consumers won't need to have a tax liability to get it.
"Price parity" with a couple of big asterisks. . . Because that's relying on the government incentives, and because we're comparing premium and luxury EVs with their direct ICE counterparts, and there are still no real budget EVs as such.
I bought my MG4 last January, and it cost the same as a Ford Focus, and in the UK I didn’t get any incentives. When you factor in my mileage and servicing etc.. I’m also saving about £2k per annum. It’s a no brainier.
The only stumbling block for the normal ice car buyer is the average range of 300 miles for EV is not enough. Not realising they do not drive that distance without a break 99.9% of the time. They also did not realise a recharge of 20mins is sufficient to cover 100 miles or a bit more. More ignorance than anything else.
OK, I'm ignorant. Because I still don't want one. EV proponents seem to have a common habit of thinking that they are the intelligent, enlightened ones and everyone who disagrees is an ignorant, trailer park Neanderthal. That does not help your cause. Liberals say "diversity is our strength" but apparently when you disagree with them they want you cancelled...or perhaps sent away to be re-educated.
It should be thought of as a cell phone recharge at home at night. The % of people taking long trips is minimal
Would rather be ignorant than arrogant.Most people can tolerate ignorant, not so much the other.
The title is misleading. EVs are still about $4,000 more expensive than ICE vehicles, according to Sam. They are only cheaper to purchase if you can take advantage of GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES/REBATES. The rebates to NOT apply to many models, have income limits, and ARE NONREFUNDABLE (you can't get more back than you owe in taxes).
The majority of the video titles on this channel are misleading, if not downright clickbait. Almost no fact checking at all, he just plagiarizes other sources so he can claim he’s just repeating what others are saying and therefore take no responsibility for the accuracy of the reporting
You can transfer the credit to the dealership in exchange for a discount or a cash payment.
However you could also claim tax exempt as to not pay anything into taxes during the year and bank the money instead. Then when you file your taxes you can take advantage of the full $7,500 credit towards your taxes owed for the year.
It's almost like dealers are artificially there, perhaps unnecessary and put there only by law alone....🤔
“Used prices are dropping like a stone”. Doesn’t that mean massive depreciation for the sucker who bought it new?
Those that can't wait until prices are more affordable must just bear the cost of depreciation if they are impatient.
why? If like me, you buy a car to keep, who cares? I have two Toyota Corollas: first is 22 years old, the second, 11. I have no plans to sell them.
My next car will be EV.
From some points of view anyone who buys any new car is a sucker. Now that we have that. So long as the new car owner drives his car depreciation does not matter. When he does trade the portion due to price cuts general in the BEV industry do not matter either because the replacement is less money.
EV offerings in USA is insufficient to stimulate mass sales. Not enough pertinently priced EV cars to choose from. Many favorite brands do not have much to offer. (Toyota as example)
Kodak and Nokia were favorite brands too...
@@TeslaDo_d Toyota is substantially smarter and more capable than those brands. They know their customers (who now demand hybrids) so that's what they provide them. The transition to BEV will be done in a methodical way ensuring Toyota stays true to its customer without forcing a solution upon them. Toyota is the global leader in automotive sales, a world leader in manufacturing, and the defacto research arm of the Japanese government. I own Tesla model 3 dual motor and love it. But to think it's appropriate that those who wish to transition cautiously taking time yet have EVs jammed down their throat means Toyota will proceed and ensure ALL customers needs are taken into consideration. Mr. Toyoda is a far better CEO than some of the USA legacy companies. If you need proof simply look at the past 12-24 months financial performance of Toyota. Near record revenue and profit. The demise of Toyota is greatly exaggerated.
@keel5626please take time to look at their financial results and their solid positions and strategic plans. I own a Tesla, but to write off a company as competent as Toyota is just lunacy. I'll smile when Toyota provides customers with cars they want (as they are now with hybrids) and will over time transition along with them to NEVs. #1 passenger car models in USA? Toyota Camry and Corolla. #1 small truck Tacoma. #1 SUV Rav 4. #1 hybrid Prius. 2.25 million sales in USA last year up 6%. Toyota has enormous knowledge of electrified vehicles and 1331 patents on solid state batteries. USA annual sale are still over 87% ICE. Oddly I've never owned a Toyota and likely never will but to write off Toyota shows a huge amount of ignorance to reality. This channel has been predicting the demise of Toyota for years. And always wrong.
@keel5626Let's see,,, Toyota YTD stock price 180-252 or up about +45%! (good investment) Tesla YTD 248 - 172. Down about - 31%. (terrible investment) In fact Tesla is the worst performing stock on the exchange this year. Yes, Tesla has lots of "future" revenue opportunities. But Tesla calls 2024 a "gap year". Are you kidding me?! No wonder Wall St. is skeptical of Tesla. Predicting Toyotas downfall is just ridiculous. Please do your homework. 😊
@@sunrisejak2709 Now that the dealer lots are full again, we shall see how their true sales look going forward. All the legacies have been bragging about ‘sales and profits’ to their dealerships. Now the consumers will choose if the want a hybrid from Toyota or a less expensive and lower maintenance EV from all the new players.
👍👍
Just went to the MG4 dealer in Netherlands. Cheapest MG4 model starts at €32.000.
Believing many EV channels, the prices are "slashed" in half by now . . . . but that will always be somewhere else, not in Netherlands.
Nissan versa entry level price is 18000 American dollars with 380 miles of range and 3 minute fill up. Why limit yourself? America is huge. People with one car need it to do everything cheaply.
Versa is a real shit bucket. You wouldn't want to do a long trip in it.
And charging an EV at home takes ten seconds.
Legacy auto is the Wonderbread of the car industry.
I think the crazy thing is that Legacy auto has had the time, the manpower, and the resources to design and release excellent EV vehicles for decades, yet they simply refused to. Gm released the EV1 back in the 90s and everyone loved them, yet they were only available as a lease and GM refused to sell them to the people who leased them. After the leases expired they were all promptly destroyed and the program was shut down permanently. GM didn't even say anything until almost 10 years later and the excuse the ceo gave was that they just couldn't sell enough to make them profitable, yet they didn't even try to sell them! I think what really happened is that the oil industry used its influence and deep pockets to squash the program.
Toyota could have kept their Prius R&D going and had a decent full line of EVs years ago, Nobody would have even heard of Tesla. But no, those gearheads like exhaust noise.
Tesla lowered prices because of reduced demand, it's that simple. They had a 6-12 month backlog of orders now there's little to no backlog, and you can buy a vehicle demo or vehicle that's already been produced at a discount. If Tesla had it together, they could be selling more M3s because of the tax incentive, but instead people are opting for the MY or forgoing the purchase altogether. I know for me, I'm downright pissed at how Tesla was unprepared. I had been waiting for the PoS rebate to take place to buy a M3 because the PoS was worth more, only to find out Tesla didn't have their supply chain in order to quality. As much as I'd like to buy a MY I don't want to pay more than $35K out the door which is a few thousand south of the MY selling price.
With car battery prices predicted to fall as as much as 40 per cent by 2025, with its associated price reduction for electric vehicles, it is game over for ICE manufacturers, ICE cars will become expensive maintenance heavy nostalgic toys for wealthy enthusiasts.
EVs are cheap now, because demand doesn't seem to be great compared to supply. Reports say thousands of EV waiting to be sold in Europe, same in China and probably in US too. What is the price after some of the competition is out and supply matches demand? For people that can't charge at home because they live in an apartment for example (most people in many places) the total running costs of EV at least now don't seem to be cheaper if they need to charge at supercharger that costs a lot more than home. Some say insurance is 2x for EV, and Tesla repairs are expensive also. If one is really on a budget they can get an Dacia ICE for 15k and those prices will react also if EV price competition forces them, so I don't think ICE will be gone unless regulation forces them out.
And expensive maintenance? 😂 I have an 18yo Honda Accord that is still going strong so I haven't replaced it (next one might be an EV, but I'll probably keep driving the Accord as long as it lasts while looking at the market) and all I had to do is replace tyres, oil, other fluids, filters and brake pads, wipers and small things like that. Has been very cheap and insurance is 20€ per month (covers only damage to other vehicles, because car is so old no point in covering that anymore).
@@cyberfunk3793 1. I live at an apartment and have no problems turning up to a public charger once a month to recharge my Tesla Model Y. The cost is roughly 1/3 of what it used to cost me in petrol to fill up my previous ICE car, a small efficient Subaru XV. 2. Yes insurance is expensive, I will have to wait for these dinosaurs to get their head out of the sand, ultimately consumers looking for competition will win. 3. Tesla repairs?, hasn’t happened in my universe, it is the most maintenance free car I have ever owned. Even the brake pads don’t get worn out due to regenerative braking feeding kinetic energy back into the batteries. 4. The last remaining market for ICE vehicles will be dilapidated 2nd hand cars that students and new entries into the workforce can only afford. And rich people wanting to play with nostalgic toys.
The Green Party will make sure they are banned off the road. We can't have you sniffing all those fumes.
@@cyberfunk3793Tesla's days of inventory is lower than essentially all other carmakers in America, most by a large multiple.
What I will miss about ICE vehicles is the smell of gasoline or diesel fuel on my hands? Ah, the good old days!
Until the other car companies can actually make a profit on selling EVs, the current EV prices are just a countdown to their bankruptcy. Of course Tesla's gonna be OK, but Legacy auto is losing thousands of dollars on each EV they sell, and that's not a sustainable business model. On the other hand, the only way for them to become profitable is to sell enough volume that wrights law will kick in and reduce their costs.
Not a million batteries but a million buttons
Other issues: Still way to expensive to insure! Sure that will come down eventually, how many years before that happens. Secondly, servicing and charging Infrastructure!
Sure. If you’re a crappy driver.
@ConstanceCox that's wrong and uninformed. You pay for other drivers bad driving and their stolen cars. EVs will be impossible to insure soon.
@@mikemars5984 Generally each post like yours is followed by an EV driver showing you are wrong. However if you keep spouting this more insurance companies will raise prices because obviously the public thinks they should.
@@danharold3087EVs are heavy compared to a ICE with comparable size. EVs have large acceleration compared to ICE vehicles. It isn't necessarily right or wrong if insurance premiums will go up when the data insurance firms need to make proper quotes are based on a vehicle with less than 10% market share of currently registered vehicles in the US. I just liked the irony of people who complained a ICE vehicle had 1200hp on public roads, and now, somehow, everyone is on board with putting that weight and acceleration at their fingertips and for sure there will be less accidents because of that. Surely. They are also harder to insure as IF there was an accident, a damaged battery and enough body damage can easily exceed the 70% requirements to classify a vehicle as Totaled. You don't even have to impact a battery directly for issues to happen, not as likely, but it is a possibility with sudden deceleration. And with tesla incorporating whole cast body assemblies, body repair costs with be higher aswell. No more bolt on, it's all one piece!
@@AhjTheMediocre According to Quora, the latest Tesla models (3 and Y) are on par with ICE equivalents. The older models S and X were about 500-1000 lbs heavier than ICE in their class.
Yes higher powered cars have higher insurance, especially if there is a bad driving record. However good insurance companies lower the rates after the first year or so. Or simply transfer from existing ICE at about the same rate. We often see EV owners telling this when EV insurance is mentioned.
Re castings. The US started making use of unibody cars in the late 50s or early 60s. The same was said about them. The body people will adapt. In the future the most mass produced cars and pickups will use large casting. Simply a cost issue. While Tesla has talked about a one casting car it has yet to be demonstrated that this will work with their unboxed factory method.
We need a program to evaluate batteries. Too many cars, I don't have a percentage, are said to be going to Ukraine where they are repaired and sold. Amazing how they can ship all these totaled cars and not burn down the ships. The media and anti EV crowd is again is partly to blame for this hysteria.
Been looking at cyberTruck crashes. It looks like one can dismantle and reconstruct the truck with wrenches. Given that there is no pain work involved panel replacement should be less expensive. Yes Tesla has published parts prices and doors at least run neck and neck with ford parts. No paint and it's Tesla for the win. Even if a front casting needs to be replace it looks like a something that can be done. In days gone by the used to talk about replacing a front clip. This may again be possible on the modern CyberTruck. I can see an experienced crew doing this in a lot less time than fixing a conventional car.
The FUD from the haters and legacy auto makers is a big problem. They know that EV’s are the future and they are not ready. GM claimed that they would be the market leader by 2025. They are no where close , and still can’t sell an EV for a profit.
Agreed but the thing is: It's Already too late lol. There are now well over a million EVs driving every day in the USA, same number in the UK and even more in Europe. Millions of people driving Every Day, with no issues at all.
The tipping point has passed.
@@swanvictor887Just wait until all those cheap EVs come to market. 2026 or thereabouts.
ሞዴል ዋይ በ35ሺህ ዶላር ዩ ኤስ ውስጥ በእውነት ሽረት ነው። መኪናውን አንዴ ተከራይቼ ነድቼዋለሁ እጹብ ነው። የተለያዩ ሽሽግ እሴቶች አሉት። ለምሳሌ ከላይ ያለው የጠርሙስ ጣራ እንዳይሞቅ ማድረግ ይቻላል። ጎማው አየር ካነሰው በራሱ መሙያ አለው። ወዘተ። ይህ መኪና የጀርመን መኪና ቢሆን 100ሺህ ዶላር ክፈሉን ይሉን ነበር። ጎበዝ ተረባረብና ግዛ
We don't need Chinese EVs in the US market. They just need to be competitive to ICE vehicles in range and price. They are doing good on this year over year.
As batteries become cheaper to manufacture so will the vehicles themselves.
Will they or will manufacturers just keep that difference for their bottom line? The idea of "we're passing the savings on to you" is kind of out-dated I fear.
Actually, cost parity between ICE and EV might prove very elusive. You replace the engine and transmission with 1 or 2 motors and a big battery. More materials go into making an EV compared to an ICE as EV are heavier than comparable ICE cars. So how can EVs become cheaper to manufacture in the long run? Some of thr savings ev makers make right now come down to manufacturing processes and techniques that can be adopted by ICE makers as well.
@@YourHineyness Tesla has been pushing prices lower as its costs come down. Others lower too or they do not sell cars. Thank Tesla for that.
@@YourHineyness The manufacturers will keep a good portion of the difference, but overall, the vehicles will cost less for the customer.
@@dangrecu4034 comparing in ICE car to an EV in this way is not correct unless you are looking at something overly complicated like the Nissan leaf. Modern EV'S have so few parts that there is little that can go wrong.
It would be interesting to know what the actual margins are on EVs. Everything we purchase today has its price calculated based on a psychological profile calculated by data collected on us, in order to maximize profits for shareholders.
They have to pay for the R&D first.
Price parity, but it's it sustainable price parity? Most EV manufacturers except Tesla are making a big loss on every car they sell, AMD there's the mentioned incentives that we're factoring in, so it's kind of a false picture. What matters more than price parity is cost parity - when most EVs cost less to manufacture than equivalent ICE cars, then we'll be talking.
Probably also lowering prices to clear out old stock of flawed designs. EV's still very much evolving towards the optimal EV design specification.
Yeah, Leafs are cheap for a reason.
Sam, the PRICE PREMIUM REMAINS!!! The real cost is time to live or wait till your car charges unless you have home charging !! The INSURANCE COSTS are seeming to be INSANE!! REPAIR TIME is in MONTHS to get completed!!! PARTS FROM CHINESE CAR MANUFACTURERS will cause many to HATE their EVS!!!! YOU are WRONG ON SOOOOO MANY POINTS in a REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE OWNING AN EV!!!!!! OH yea TIRE REPLACEMENT TWICE AS OFTEN!! And FINDING GARAGES WITH CERTIFIED EV TECHS IN YOUR CITY!!!! I mean DEAS WINTER BATTERY AND DISAPEARING RANGE ANXIETY!!!!!!!! CMON SAM WAKE UP !!!! GREAT VIDEO !!!
Posts like yours are invitations to less scrupulous insurance companies to charge more for EV insurance. They create the reality. Such posts are generally followed by people telling how their EV insurance is about the same.
The truth is our economy is not what is advertised by numbers and consumer aren't buying luxury items like cars as they normally do.
Yes, because everything is "a conspiracy". /s
You, like all your ilk, show NO evidence or citations, much less CREDIBLE evidence or citations for your random false claims, AS PER USUAL.
No science exists. Only clowns like Trump tell "the truth". /s
Run for the hills. /s
Meanwhile, in the real world, your ilk wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them in the face, so there's that.
If BYD or other Chinese auto makers make it to the US market. Most auto makers will be toast. Tesla will be fine but I don't see the traditional American auto makers making it - or just collapsing into one for the "America-only" buyers (although most are American in name only).
On a side note, I'd never consider the Nissan leaf. Chademo in 2024? Yeah right. 😂
EVs might be at "price off the lot" equivalence at BMW price ranges. But I don't see it among reasonably priced cars at US dealerships.
But I would love to be proven wrong. I am about to buy a **new** Nissan Versa in about 3 weeks.
If they are really at price equivalence, you should have no trouble pointing me to a reliable "price off the lot" equivalent car of around $15,000. I might even be willing to pay a small premium just to go EV, so say $18,000 price off the lot. But... no Kia nor Hyunday, as they are nowhere as reliable as a Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Mazda.
So... which brand and model? Like the old hamburger commercial used to say.... Where's the beef?!!!
Anyway, show me a viable EV model at that price and I will buy it on the spot.
And when they actually test the running costs, EV is the same or more expensive if charged at a supercharger in UK and only cheaper when charged at home. Total cost of ownership is what matters and seems things like insurance is double with EV compared to ICE, expensive battery might need to be replaced after 10 years due to degradation if one keeps their car that long. (although the claim is new batteries last a lot longer). Repairs: another example where EV, at least Tesla is much more expensive, afaik that was the reason Hertz was in trouble with their Tesla fleet, damage repairs much more expensive. When I did the math based on UK prices, as long as petrol is less than 1.8 per litre, my ICE would be cheaper than the average per mile costs of EV charged at Tesla station at 60p per KWh.
Only if your silly enough to use a supercharger. Most people charge their cars at home most of the time at a fraction of the price. Unless your away from home most of the time your charging costs will be just a few (single digit) pounds/$ per charge. That's nothing unless your importing your own petrol at mate's rates from your brother in Russia
My understanding is that the business model of car rental companies is based on the expectation that they can buy a new car for $new, rent it to customers for, say, 3 years, then resell the car for $secondHand, and the depreciation cost of the car ($new - $secondHand) is low enough so the company can make a profit in its business. When Hertz decided to add lots of Tesla cars to its fleet, demand for Tesla cars was outstripping supply by so much that second-hand Tesla cars were selling for close to (and sometimes more than) the cost of a new Tesla car. This lead Hertz to think that adding Tesla cars to its fleet would result in a depreciation cost ($new - $secondHand) being remarkably low, and this would increase Hertz's profits.
However, what actually happened is that one or two years later Tesla managed to increase its production capacity enough so that supply was meeting demand, and this caused the price of second-hand Tesla cars to drop. To make matters worse (from Hert's point of view), Telsa began a campaign of aggressively cutting the price of its cars. The result of this is that the depreciation value of Tesla cars in Hertz's fleet increased alarmingly, and Hertz realized this was going to be bad for profits.
The above hypothesis is based on what I read about Hertz. I don't recall reading anything good/bad about Hertz's maintenance costs of Tesla cars in its fleet. I'm not saying you are wrong; merely that there might have been more than one reason behind Hertz's decision to remove Tesla cars from its fleet.
By the way, if Tesla continues to be successful in its mission to speed up the ICE-to-EV transition, then I expect that the value of second-hand ICE cars will drop alarmingly at some point in the future (logic: if most people want to buy an EV, then then the supply of second-hand ICE cars will outstrip demand for them, thus causing their price to drop), and once again car rental companies may find themselves struggling with higher-than-forecast depreciation on cars in their fleet. If so, car rental companies may find themselves in a "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't" situation.
@@mikevanlokven7384 Silly enough? Are you silly enough to think that most people live in their own houses and can charge at home? You don't understand there are plenty of city folk living in apartments with no electric outlets anywhere near their car?
@@CiaranMcHale What I read is that the problem was with repair costs, because Hertz insures their vehicles themselves. So they pay repairs themselves and those were very expensive and slow for Tesla vehicles. Depreciation might also play a major role though as you said.
Tesla superchargers don’t charge 60p per kWh.
Most I’ve ever paid is 43p per kWh
I would argue consumer education is worse than “relatively mediocre”
"You know how stupid the average person is? Half the people are stupider than that! " -- George Carlin
This is great news! Now, we need range and refuel parity with ICE, and we’re good! It will happen soon.
Refuel parity is controlled by the oil and power companies. Shell just sold 1000 gas stations. This maybe a good sign.
It's never going to happen. Not enough power in the grid for everyone to have one. What about the EMF radiation risk ? The weight, insurance, range, charging time, useless in winter, rare earth metals to make batteries etc, etc ? Prices coming down because nobody wants them !!
Exactly. Prices are dropping because no one wants them.
@@bearcubdaycarei don't believe any of this BS. But, hey, we all have a dream. Oh, please stay in CO.
Great to hear from you! Haven't heard any of your trolling nonsense in a while. Was worried that you had dropped off the site. Great to see you pitching in with more FUD nonsense.😂😂😂 obviously you know nothing about science or battery chemistry because rare earth metals are not used in batteries, and Cobalt, which is used in declining amounts in ternary chemistry, is not considered a rare earth metal. Why don't you get educated before you expose how little you know.
We need to build lots of nuclear power plants. That will bolster the power grid more than we could possibly use.
Uh-huh. Well, once you get that simple little task done, give us a call. It seems so often that the very people who tout EVs morning, noon, and night also seem to be anti-nuke with equal fervor. They think electricity just comes out of a wall plug.@@GoodBoyGoneDad
EV sales continue to double every two years.
Sort of a Moore's Law type thing.
Not in the UK. Sales of EV's in 2023 were 16.5% of the total fleet, slightly down from 16.6% in 2022.
@@romanpolanski4928that’s one yr tho to be fair
This is still the early-adopters wave. It will start to get worse and worse until we have good enough charging infrastructures and better and cheaper batteries.
@ev.whyking You are conflating the total cars out there with annual sales. Annual sales continue to double every two years.
Cox automotive says the difference has shrunk from 17k to 5k in the last two years. I’ve seen other figures showing a difference of just $1500. This is a weird year in the US because you have OEM’s saying buy a hybrid. Tesla is maintaining their 60% market share because other EV car manufacturers have refused to increase production and lose more money. Late next year when the NACS port starts to get installed in new EV’s, the supply chain is more North America based, things may change. But for now the EV market growth rate in the US is slowing significantly simply because no company except Tesla can make a profit on an EV and sell it at a reasonable price.
Legacy dealers need something to service. Sell hybrids.
@@danharold3087And mark up EVs if the OEM forces them on your lot. See? Nobody wants them! Buy a hybrid!
@@jamesvandamme7786 Yup!
Because most people in the US don't want anything other than a Tesla. All the other brands are suffering from EV Lot Rot.
Probably the best reason to drive a Tesla is the excellent charging infrastructure. Other brands might profit from Tesla opening their Supercharger network. Tesla might profit from revenues selling the electricity and thus be able to extend their SC network.
I rarely use the Supercharger Network. I charge at home while I sleep :) @@dirkvornholt2507
Automakers have been driving up the average price of all cars for decades, EVs are the only ones that have room to fall.
I have a Tesla, and your statement that "you don’t use brakes besides regenerative braking" is highly exaggerated. I use maximum regen, AKA “one-pedal” Unless you have a lot of time to slow down gradually, stop signs and red lights or stop and go traffic ensure that maybe half to a quarter braking is used compared to ICE. When you’re above your set charging level or below 20% in older EVs, regen braking also does not work. Sure, the overall load on the brakes is much less per weight of the car, but most EVs are a bit heavier. Because you know better and have admitted to these points in other videos, I hold you to a higher standard of honesty, and downvoted this video. Considering I’ve liked hundreds this is regretable but the best way to send feedback.
The main thrust and topic is right, but not because EV subsidies outweigh the price difference. In fact oil and gas are hghly subsidized, so a transparent accounting means that ICE on average cost more than EVs, even over medium time periods like 5 years. We don’t typically see the tax money going to factories, refineries, health care related to injuries and “accidents”. We will not get as much return on investment from fossil fuels as renewables. This is without even considering the cost of infrastructure due to worse weather, then to mitigate and reverse global warming, or related insurance premiums.
Insurance is tripled…
Repair costs are quadruple
yeah the insurance protection racket and the car stealerships still exist... but we will fix them soon enough as well
Not true in Australia my EV costs the same or less than my Isuzu 4x4. I'm guessing you don't own an EV.
@@Gazza-rv8ud "In Australia, for instance, EV owners face insurance costs that are on average $661 higher per year than those for ICE vehicles.". That was February 2024 so seems you are talking nonsense.
In Australia I pay $1000 premium for my $74K Tesla and $850 for my 2022 Isuzu 4x4. So who's talking the nonsense? Don't be talking about things you have no experience with.@@cyberfunk3793
Not true my EV BMWi3 is cheap to insure
Hybrids still have a $10-20k premium over the gas equivalent
Insurace is very expensive for EVs.
I didn't find that
The Great Transformation [Part 2] - The #Disruption of #Transportation
Tony Seba
If no delta where are the sales? Just like phones give it 10 years.
Osborne Effect. Next year, cheaper prices, more selection, better performance, and NACS plugs.
Awesome help Sam....When here in OZ
"Used EV prices dropping like a stone". That's no exaggeration, a used 2 year old 2021 Model Y LR that cost a total of $60k in late 2022 is now worth $21k as a Tesla trade in...yikes!!
What is the durability of the EV compared to ICE? Do the EV has a cooling system? Thank You.
They are usually water cooled
The battery is thermally regulated to warm in the cold and cool when charging. The motor is also liquid cooled. There's an air conditioner which can cool the car and heat the battery, or cool the battery & motor to heat the car, or (with a heat pump) cool or heat what needs to be cooled or heated. On an ICE this is all run off pulleys and belts off the engine, so there's maintenance and inefficiency, and God help you if it breaks inside the engine. EVs have external pumps and an A/C motor which run more efficiently and are easily replaced. The durability is unknown; hoses and motors don't last forever, but most do.
@@jamesvandamme7786 your correct. But ICE vehicles overall efficiency gets better in winter, as waste heat is now useful. EVs overall are more efficient. Glad to see the use of heatpumps, about to install one for home heating
That's because they raised the prices on Everything - are you just out of your mind? You can't perceive this easy view? It doesn't matter how far the prices come down because they already blew the prices out the top. Everything is at a premium, Everything. Your bubble is thick.
and yet the EV's still lose money.. Fact is ICE vehicles subsidize EV's, even Tesla makes their money trading credits with legacy car manufacturers..
Tesla makes SOME of its money from credits. At one time what you said was true. BUT every car maker is free to build the required cars and sell their earned credits. So don't crap on Tesla for following the rules. Unfortunately they can't build one and sell it without losing money. Tesla had just under $30 billion in cash in December.
You having saying this for some time and now it’s reality🎉
Other than Europe, the cartel has many interesting hybrids available in the US! ❤
Too bad they only get crappy made in USA cars 😂😂😂😂😂
Getting my coke and popcorn ready to watch Americans buying EVs like crazy now that they reached price parity with ICE!!
Unlikely, they're both extremely over priced. Prices have to come way down or no deal for me and millions like me.
Bring Chinese EV to Canada. I'd love to see BYD, Xpeng, etc in Canada.
Most other sites have EV's sales crashing.
According to NPR, EV sales are expected to set another record in 2024 after a record year in 2023. Rate of increase is moderating. Not crashing.
It is hard to find exact numbers for the decline in ICE sales. Did find this.
CleanTechnica
Putting numbers on it, the drop in ICE vehicle demand will mean 2.5 million fewer vehicles this year, 4 million fewer in 2024, 6.5 million fewer in 2025, and a whopping 9.5 million fewer in 2026 for a loss of ICE sales totaling 22 million vehicles over the next 4 years.
Many other sites want clicks too. Misrepresenting EV sales is one way to do it. Pander to the ICE crowd.
in canada every car is stupid expensive including used we need china import cars here please and help b y d
actually, now might be a good time to nip to your dealers....they are overflowing with cars they can't sell and going broke! There are a lot of good deals to be had, even moreso in the USA, where Dealers are screaming at the manufacturers to stop sending them cars! In the USA, there is over a year's supply of F-150 Lightnings and Mustang Mach-E in stock and their ICE collection is causing serious issues, Dealers struggling to find space to keep the vehicles. The collapse of ICE in the USA has started.
Just be honest.
EVs are done.
EVs you can buy cheap will be even lower, far lower, in the future.
EV prices will be cheaper once some smaller EVs ever hit the US market. We need a truck the size of a 1990s Toyota and a sedan the size of an early 2000s Mazda 3, or early 1990s Civic!
Tesla lowered its prices because of the amounts of past increases they made in 2020 to 2022!! They change prices to help people make a purchase, they are not competing with anyone.
Morning mate
Not even close. It is still incredibly more expensive to own, operate and maintain a Tesla vs its comparable ICE/PHEV/Hybrid. Cost to buy, higher. Cost to insure, higher. Cost to maintain, higher. Cost to repair, higher. Depreciation, higher. Cost to operate City, lower. Cost to operate highway, higher.
One comment, most people are not making over $200,000.
Is it true that these electric cars don't use any gasoline at all? That's what my friend says.
you can literally charge them anywhere
Excuse me? Have you only just found that out? Or are you kidding? (no insult intended)
If true, I'm beginning to appreciate the level of misinformation and the uninformed number in the world.
@@oldbloke204 you can charge them at any regular socket that has grounding... 120v american sockets arent recommended but apparently still work... some older hybrids could be charged without grounding but thats not a thing anymore
@@oldbloke204 yes it's very easy to be dumb and to lose money
No, unless they have something called a 'range extender' like the BMW i3.
🥳🥳🥳TRUMP🥳🥳🥳
Is a moron.
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TFLEV
The next inevitable step will be EVs being significantly cheaper. The price of batteries put into cars is now 25% of what it was 2 years ago. Of course running electric cars still only makes sense if you have a home charger or a benevolent employer who subsidises the cost of recharging their employees cars.....this is because public charging is still very expensive.
Largely true about charging, but public charging seems to be getting cheaper. A level 2 Rivian charger charged me USD 0.15 per kWh. The Tesla level 3 fast chargers in my state are charging USD 0.31 per kWh.
I love these comments from Total ignorance. You obviously have not used the Tesla network. We use it regularly. You have no idea what you're talking about
@@douglaswatt1582 You spam the same rubbish, people can easily find and compare prices and many have done comparisons. In UK for non Tesla owners it's 60p / KWh to charge which is more expensive than a ICE vehicle when consumption is about 6L/100km and petrol is cheaper than 1.8/L like it's now.
Being a smug jackass does not help your cause sir.@@douglaswatt1582
clickbait viking
When are the EV fans going to admit buyers in US & Australia aren't buying EVs because they don't want them not the price.
Only place they are any good at all is countries where you can drive across the whole country in a couple of hours.
Clueless nonsense. We've driven cross-country dozens of times in our cars over the last 6 years with the average trip being about 1500 to 1600 mi.. It's a shame you believe all the disinformation and fud
What has gender have to do with a car ?
Electric cars are only ok if you can charge at home and don’t go far . I know of people who were suckered into buying one , and either have , or are desperate to get rid of it .
Says the "expert" who does not own an EV and probably never sat in one. I've travel just as far in my EV as I did in my gas vehicle days and I drove gas for 60 years. I've talked to many other EV owners and they have no issues traveling and find it enjoyable as I do. I have also met a many owners who do not have home charging. They just work charging into their daily routine such as the young woman I met who bought a used Bolt and lives in an apartment. She plugs in while at her daily workout at the gym, there is a level 2 Volta network charger in the parking lot. If you really want an EV, you'll find a way.
I love these statements from ignorance. We actually know multiple people on our block with Teslas. They are, as we are, very happy with their cars, they are very reliable, great Road cars, and again you have no idea what you're talking about.
@@muskrat3291 @douglasswatt1582 as you have proved the worst thing about these cars are the owners . One example , a friend’s neighbour ,who I’ve spoken to a few times , swapped a perfectly good Ford Focus for an electric Hyundai , had the charging equipment installed , went to see her daughter 120 miles away, and had to recharge on the way back, this is a woman in her late sixties ,on her own ,she was terrified, in the dark finding somewhere to charge for half an hour. She was told the car would easily to the return journey on a single charge ! Her diesel Focus could do it twice on a tankful .
EV's have the ability to waste a $$$$$$$$$$ cargo ship and $$$$$$ of its Cargo.
A number of your youtubes have been blocked
The panic is incredible
Price parity?! As but one obvious example, please feel free to price an F-Series ice truck v an electric one and get back to me. With billions in tax payer money going into artificially reducing EV prices, EV's are still far more costly, like for like. What a preposterous claim.
It may be a blessing for some as Australia may be one of the last countries in the world that changes to EVs.
Depends on your oil and electric costs I would think. Could be a curse or a blessing if all you care about is your pocket book.
No, that will be the USA, unless our big 3 get moving.
Chinese EVs have hit price parity. Western EVs are a decade or more away.. 🤷🏻♂️
All the OEMs are working on them, except for the Japanese, who are very secretive. We;ll know within the next 2 years what they come up with.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Which is nothing. Remember Toyota's and Nissan's solid state battery EVs? They ain't happening.
No price premium? Total bullshit.