Okay folks. Crazy! 😳 I filmed this around 40 days ago. And today, Notion launched AI - I’ve been on holiday, so just coming back to this and had this pre-scheduled. Early opinions: this AI doesn’t fix what I mention, but a good step forward! More like thoughts tomorrow!
Thanks for the post. Was just going to mention that they launched the AI side today. I am so torn between Notion and Evernote. I wish they would blend the two.
Are you thinking the team behind Notion isn’t planning to improve and evolve the app over the next 2-3 years (the timeframe of their supposed demise)? Today’s announcement is only reinforcing my point. I believe Notion listens to their customers and will move with them.
I 100% agree because what you described is exactly my own experience with Notion. I loved it at first because it was fun to set things up exactly how I wanted. And then I started realizing I had a ton of pretty pages with barely any content. Kinda like when I used paper planners & bullet journals and I’d spend hours decorating with washi tape but there were no plans inside
Actually that's the reason why I could never use notion. I tried it a couple of times but at the very beginning I noticed I'd waste a lot of time with customization, but my times has always been short. So for me using different apps to do to different things would make more sense.
It does feel like this particular industry is built on giving people excuses to procrastinate. The appeal of setting up, rather than ever getting round to the work.
I have seen this happen with smarter folks than I. Planner stickers are a best seller as are over decorated planner pages. You just need to find what works for you. I think there are too many gurus out there selling us some ideas that are silly, wasteful and take more time to maintain than doing the tasks on their to do lists.
My problem with Notion is speed. I love using Notion for note-taking at university but the fact that it needs around a minute to open a note from a database on my phone kills the productive vibe for me.
Yes, exactly, Notion is way too slow, and it also can't handle a large text file without lagging like crazy. The typing experience is poor, the latencies of typing is unbearable
This was the biggest reason I switched to obsidian I just can’t deal with the lag from using it on a phone to a mac or a high end gaming desktop it’s just so slow.
@@datatron100 i also move to Obsidian, the difference is like night and day. Obsidian is blazing fast. now i became easily irritated with the other slow notes app. in Obsidian, you could have an entire novel written in one page, and it would only took like 50kb, everything open instantly. you can store and retrieve your data with the speed of thought but, obsidian not for everyone though, so, it's not a note app for average people. because it's kinda like a programmer IDE, but i like it that way because i'm a software engineer myself. other people might have different opinion
You're spot on about the balance of "tool optimizing" vs "actual work". The best tools are the ones that keep you accountable and productive with the least amount of involvement possible. We'll see how Notion adapts to its users - we may see it niche away from the market over time!
I suspect it's only a small percentage of Notion users that spend all their time "building and setting up". I use Notion heavily, and have spent no time setting it up - I just create notes, and have no need for fancy dashboards.
I do exactly the same. I spend a lot of time on Notion just using the basics features. For me it's important to navigate easily more than fancy notes. Which I do customize some of them, but not every page.
I adore Notion, tell all my friends about it and that Jazz, have invested tons of time into making it work! But - 90 percent of the time is just making Notion work for me. You're spot on. Customizability doesn't exactly produce productivity.
I would not discount Notion that easily. They’ve demonstrated really good engineering and design skills, the speed at which they deliver new features is great, and stuff actually works (unlike something from e.g. Microsoft, despite all the resources they have…). And I think Notion has such a solid foundation in the product that none of the points you bring up is something that couldn’t be done with what they have now, or built on top of it. And as I said, they have a track record of being able to deliver. If market is heading where you think it is, there’s nothing that would prevent them from going that way as well.
I've gone back to Evernote after spending a few months with Notion. I really enjoyed the fact that Notion allowed granular control over pretty much anything you wanted to achieve with it...but it was consuming too much time and I found myself fannying about making great looking notes/tables etc that I wasn't getting any real work done. It felt like more of a plaything than a productivity app - a bit like electronic Lego. I renamed it 'ProcrastiNotion'. The real upside of this is that even though it may not be the latest, greatest, all-singing, all-dancing of the slew of productivity apps on the market - Evernote suits my workflow perfectly. it does what i want, when i want, and it does it quickly and efficiently. It also has, by far, the best Web Clipper of them all.
"found myself fannying about making great looking notes/tables etc that I wasn't getting any real work done" Exactly. Why bother with notion's learning curve.
Notion has a key advantage (in my opinion) it is free for personal use, every other productivity app is subscription based and for me personally notion is not that hard to use.
I believe Notion is easy to use for those who have a minimum notion of coding. Which is my case. I do find Notion easy and comfortable, but sometimes I feel limited, or in the other extreme, I feel is such a burden to customize to my liking.
They can't keep that up anymore. With crunch in funding and them being overvalued, Notion soon has to cut extra fat. When? I don't know but they will have to.
Nothing it’s free, your private data it’s in their side, and nobody knows which limitations you will have someday(when they want) and it will be late for you and without alternatives because the worst of all it’s that you are engadget. Not me.
Literally just had a conversation with my boss where I talked about how a lot of project management / productivity apps don't give enough creative constraints because they want to serve the most people and be "customizable". But for most teams, that just means everyone starts working differently and you don't get as much alignment and organization (which is why you switched to the tool in the first place). Great video!
Did this video just got uploaded at exactly the same time Notion sends out an e-mail with their new AI feature? :D I guess there will be a place for both, complete personalization brings time saving in other areas, let´s see!
Notion AI does not change anything. The fundamental flaw of Notion is the fact that they are more focused on growth than on really helping their clients achieve their goals. No API for years, no repeating tasks, no calendar sync for years - come on! Notion's clients are its investors, not users - you can clearly see it from their business decisions. And that's why Notion is a perfect app for procrastinators, tweakers and solopreneurs that want to sell templates -- but it DOES NOT help do things, advance projects and collaborate. In the same way that watching TH-cam is primarily entertainment and not learning. This will make Notion die very soon.
Learned about Notion from your channel. Used it for a couple years, but it was so frustrating as it didn't scale when I wanted to do more sophisticated things. Thank goodness for tools like Obsidian.
Agreed. 2+ yrs daily user. It's been a 2nd brain (PPV system) but in no way would I use it for everything or expect it to. I'm moving into coda simply for more functionality
@@HippieP629 May I ask what coda has better functionality than notion? For me I would like to choose a tool mainly for task and management tool, and be able to check tasks and schedule tasks on the iPhone. I use obsidian for pkm but would like a tool to supplement obsidian, I’m looking into taskade, notion, and coda? Which has advantages in such a use case, or maybe which functions you think coda is better? Nice to see you found the right tool!
Glad I found this. Every six months ago, I come back around and have a look at Notion again. The problems you mention, as you said, is both a pro and a con. But my biggest issue is still how to easily get my data out and a usable format. I can't go all-in with a system that locks up my data.
Here's the thing: Every single app like this has issues. There will never be an app that is great for everyone. As a teacher, I don't pay a dime for the Pro version of Notion. That is a major selling point for me. I recently tried ClickUp, but their pricing shanagans was too much for me. It's not only super complicated, but their pricing plans make no sense.
The same setup and optimization burnout also became inevitable for manual bullet journaling. After a couple of years of content focused on incredibly personalized and attractive aesthetics defined that community, we started to see people posting that they'd quit from the exhaustion and pressure.
Bullet Journaling like that never made sense to me. Why not to have just a planner and do art separately? So your daily planning does not depend on how much time you put into creating a pretty page.
100% agree. The future is data, data management and the AI layers ON TOP of that data. Notion is to 2030 what Evernote is to 2020. EDIT: 2:52 When I was on your show a few years ago I said this same thing. Notion is to productivity what Instagram was to authenticity.
I need a flexible app, as Notion, which allows me to set up my structure. This is a great avantage of Notion. I do not feel comfortable with solutions out-of-the-box. The problem of constant setting up a Notion workspace is not a problem of the app. It is a problem that must be solved from the user side.
As a serial Evernote user (11 years), i must admit, i was starting to wonder if i should move to Notion purely for the fact that MOST people were talking about it. Thank goodness that i never did as Evernote people have been updating it alot recently and i am genuinely loving their new updates.
I bought your Notion course and then set out to build a system. I had great fun at first and then... I gave up because of exactly what you said. I was fiddling around too much. Also all the videos I watched were ones like your friend Tig (I think that's his name) where they try to wrap Notion around some 49-step productivity system. I had been a long-time Evernote user and like so many, I was willing to leave 10 years of notes for something better. Thank goodness Evernote got its act together and now I'm back with a simple tool and a simple productivity system.
I’ll be honest Francesco, I like your content,don’t get me wrong but I believe you never actually LOVED Notion, I see it in every video that you talk about it you always look for something else to go to or something that is better than Notion. I doubt it fits your style and you are still on the wave cause it’s a popular app and keeps on getting more popular by the day, so it’s good for the views to talk about it. You have a point on what you say but I doubt people who love customization and flexibility will go back to a more closed app just because of the automations of machine learning. Notion is already on that track and I think they can combine both worlds in their toolset as it seems now that they took the first step with the GTP3 service Notion AI.
- I am quit stunted and shocked with your introductory comment “ Notion will die in 3 to years”. And making the allusion that Qatalog might take over or other apps. - I think the human race as either a very short memory or we do not know what we really need when it comes to digital asset management. - Evernote provided to us a well structured way to capture our data but agreed it is very rigid in doing so. - I have been in the IT field for more then 45 years. - Early on I recognized the need to manage my digital asset. - I was an early adapter of Evernote - used it for more then 5 years and had about 23,000 documents into it. - Evernote was certainly an evolution in capturing my digital needs. - Like many others I was kind of stuck into the Evernote rigid structure and I would have loved to see that company be able to adjust and evolve there product to the over growing need of managing digital assets. - I came across Notion and BOOM I was hooked and I went to a painful migration from Evernote to Notion. And I was sad to leave the Evernote app. - Yes, the Notion initial goals which were to create a one shop stop app to do it all for us and being super flexible on how we wanted to organize our digital life appealed to me. And still does. - Where I am having a hard time with your comments and position about the future of Notion is the fact that you and all of us have been running on top of the wave of the Notion product for many years now. And now that we are seing new trends in the industry influencer like you are ready to condemned Notion and send then into a similar spiral then Evernote - that isn’t fair. - Notion they lived to there promised and offered an ever growing app to fulfill our needs. - Saying that Notion is way to flexible is a sin… People that complain that they spend too much time into designing there structure into Notion might be an indication that after all they do not have content to manage at the end… There approach is up side down - first you have a need / data / content and then you create whatever structure that will support your data gathering. - As a very important influencer like you that got a lot of visibility and a very interesting ride on this app, your position should be a bit more loyal to Notion and help them grow. - Of course also as a digital society I think we have a responsibility towards app creator like Notion - instead of condemned them let’s help them by providing our needs, suggestions, ideas and be patience to give then the time to improve it. This will serve us a lot better then pushing them aside for another app.
I absolutely agree with you. Very spot on. It is attractive & interactive at first. From my experience with notion I've spent so much time thinking I'll be saving more by customizing everything in one stop app but after a while I figured out that I've wasted time more than saving any! It is supposed to be a productivity app & it was eating away from my productivity time when other apps come ready with all the features that I needed.!! Now I learned to practice discernment in the productivity area because it is loaded with trends, peer pressure & marketing as any other field!
Don't agree. Notion adds stuff like AI at a pretty fast pace. Whatever's going to replace Notion had better get started because Notion's going to get there before they do.
Interesting take! I feel like Notion will probably lose steam at some point, however, I don’t think it’s going to “die”. They’re big, they’re in touch with the market, and always shipping new features that work really seamlessly and don’t over complicate things. Love your videos and your vision man, I’m going to start testing out Mem and Qatalog for myself. 😊 Maybe I should make some more speculative videos like this as well.
It will not die. My guess is some company will offer them a pile of cash. Or, it will become too complex and bloated with features. Maybe another Notionesque app will come along and people will flock to it.
Hey Francesco and team! Love your videos. You’ve been an important source of info for me as I’m building my cosmetics business. I think I have a perspective that might be valuable here. I just got on Notion over the summer, and it has been a GAME CHANGER for me. I know it takes a long time to manually set up a new space. However, the time I spent wrestling with glitchy integrations and automations on ClickUp, Trello, Teamwork, Teams and Google chats was infuriating and even more laborious. Plus, the sheer enjoyment I get out of making a pretty new workspace on Notion has been an incentive for me to actually sit down and do work that would otherwise be very tedious. I think apps like Notion are the future of productivity for small businesses, classrooms, and any other non-tech focused operation. It looks like a word doc or apple notes when you open it up, so it feels intuitive for someone unfamiliar with productivity apps. However, I can take the time to set up a database with deeper features for my team on a platform they already know, so it takes a huge load off my shoulders in training them. For context, I’m the only full-timer in my business. Everyone else works async and part time with me on a contract basis. My business partners are also boomers, so getting them to even use Google Docs has been like pulling teeth. Notion has been the only platform I could even get them to try using. Also, I can print Notion pages, so if they’re being stubborn, I can literally just show them on paper what I’ve been working on. I also love how easily I can share a single page with outsiders via email, so I have control over what they have access too. I could go on forever. But I hope you get my point! There’s a huge gap between the “best” productivity platforms, and the platforms you can actually get “normal” people to opt into. I think Notion falls into the second category! Thanks and keep up the great work!
@@Djblois1 I use only for me, not managing teams, I want an app that makes the structure for me not that I have to create it and think it, I want to pay for solution , not the tools to build one.
@@Djblois1 The thing with Notion is, it's great. If you know what you want out of it. I use it to manage a user onboarding workflow, for example. Super useful to have every card on the Kanban be a full note page with about twenty custom properties. It's really easy to keep on track with that. But when you don't have the structure figured out beforehand, like with more general notetaking, it can get annoying really fast.
I couldn't agree more. I don't have any other app that I both love and deeply hate on my devices more. Notion makes the impossible easy while making the easy surprisingly difficult. I hope that Notion improves because when I first downloaded it I thought I was looking at a glimpse into the future, but I had no idea that glimpse would still be a slightly wider glimpse 4 years later.
Even before seeing Notion's announcement today (that they just added AI 😄), while watching this video I was really unclear as to *why* you thought Notion wouldn't move into that space. I think as a general note, it's great to have opinions and "hot takes", etc., but it'd be even better to explain the reasoning (if any?) behind your belief. As far as AI specifically, perhaps you aren't aware of how the current AI surge is happening? It's *almost all* coming from a *single* API: GPT-3. It's an openly accessible API so literally *anyone* can use it. And it is ridiculously simple to use. That means integrating it into e.g. Notion is not a massive challenge (when weighed against the apparent level of feature it presents as to the user). Database templating was probably a harder problem for them to solve dev-wise. So Notion is making a splash with AI this morning, but what they're doing is already being done by 10s of other companies and tools, from Lex to Moonbeam, to tiny Github projects that are available entirely for free. I don't know for sure that Notion's is driven by GPT-3 but it seems quite likely. If not that particular model+API, then certainly some other large company's pre-existing, trained large language model. 99% likely that Notion did not create their own AI here, they're just integrating AI into their tool in a reasonably good way, but it's definitely not unique. There is already an Obsidian plugin that does similar, for example: github.com/nhaouari/obsidian-textgenerator-plugin So again I'm a bit confused why you thought Notion wouldn't do this. It seems like an obvious thing to add for Notion to get on the current AI hype train. This comment reads like a big criticism, but I'm genuinely just curious what your perspective was (and how it has changed with today's announcement). All that said, you're absolutely right that building effective tools and workflows is not solved by this, and *that* AI problem is going to be a lot harder to solve in a general way, and so will be more likely to need to be built by each product team. Or at the least a general implementation (akin to GPT-3 but for productivity workflows) would probably require more work to implement since its inputs and outputs would be much more complicated than the simple text that GPT-3 operates on.
I think he means something a bit different. Not just text generation. But true understanding of your organization and making recommendations and automating actions based on a deep understanding of your business.
@@ifonlysam I agree, that's a good read on what he meant, but he didn't give much detail or reasoning for that in the video, nor did he distinguish it from the more obvious text-generating AI that Notion now has. Given its growing prevalence, I think that would have been a key distinction to make. My feeling on functioning organizational AI is actually that very few existing, large project/work management apps will do effective AI internally. We're likely to see a lot of AI workflow startups being created outside of these companies (this has already begun), and I would imagine we'll see some acquisitions by larger companies to try to internalize some of this tech. Notion has been doing this quite a bit already of late. But I would predict challenges in the integration process as every one of these apps - Notion, ClickUp, Monday, etc. - have very well-defined and deeply-integrated data and conceptual models in their tools, and AI will need to adapt to them. That's a tough challenge. But AI has been surprising me lately, so I look forward to being surprised some more in this domain in a few years. 😁
01:24 the no code area started way earlier in the 90ties with FileMaker (it still exist). I was able to build stuff with no prior programming knowledge
FileMaker lost the opportunity to be mainstream. It had a product called 'bento'. And it was a brilliant application on ipad. Its more like airtable. Though all these no code softwares share the same database functionality.
If your productivity depends on 27 apps, you have no resiliency and you’re not productive. This is precisely why ERP systems are dying. Every time I turn around at work, someone has tried to bolt something else onto our ERP system. It’s infuriating the downstream issues that have to be worked through…every time. So many root cause problems, so many bandaids, and so much complexity that no one knows the whole thing…and the things they DO know change, so their knowledge degrades quickly. The systems that will survive will be scaleable, developable, be totally customizable and incorporate AI…exactly the path that Notion are taking. I want ONE place to do everything where I see every aspect of everything. When I need something entirely new, I don’t want to have to source the world again, go through an entire learning curve again, AND go through a whole build, test and integration. I want to be able to build it exactly how I want it with the knowledge I already have…AND have my new thing work seamlessly with everything I already have WITHOUT having to do a whole new integration. THIS is productivity. I get if you’re addicted to novelty and want to keep learning new things. It’s exciting. Makes sense. BUT, if real, true productivity is what you’re after, then ONE place that is entirely customizable, developable, that grows in every way with you is THE holy grail for a reason.
Ali Abdaal coined a term a couple of years ago about the problematic you mentioning with Notion : productivity procrastination. It's been two months since I'm struggling between Notion tasks managing and Todoist and its not normal to do more time writing task than actually doing it.
Interestingly enough, I use the same setup. Notion + Todoist. As we are both inspired from Ali, i'm not surprised. I recently added a third software to my daily use and that is Obsidian. This is how my workflow is divided. Every morning, I set up my todoist which syncs with my google calendar. Then for all the content planning and Setting up SOP and system info, I use notion. And for all the scripts and detailed research, copy pasting stuff from the internet, etc. I use Obsidian. I quite like the setup as these three apps get 90% of the work done for me. You can give it a shot too, all the best
I moved to notion from Trello for task management. I started thinking that it could even be a better use treating it like Google Drive. You can upload pretty much anything and it is a little easier to find stuff than GDrive.
The problem with evernote is the limitations of the free use. Forcing the people to pay for usage, limitating the free sharing between devices, forced us to seek another solution to manage notes. Notion is amazing got lucky because the evernote´s greedy decision.
Great video - and great problem identification. Asana had/has a very similar problem for teams - it’s so customizable that you have to go in with a plan or all you get is amplified chaos that takes way too much time to manage. I’m hopeful that Notion can find a sustainable niche. Personally, I think it’s great for creating written content collectively and horrible as a stand-alone team project management tool.
Interesting takes. I totally relate with thinking differently than the crowd and being ahead of the world by multiple years, and being met with hostility in the short term but being right in the long term, so I get your struggle here. Also very valid criticism. I'm sitting here wondering about the future of local storage and backups, as I've become way too dependent on apps like Notion to the point where if they wanted to wipe out years of my data, they totally could.
I sense you could be right. Would you explain some more concrete examples of Machine Learning, specifically in team productivity, that you think will be normal in the future? Because so far, your video said, "Notion will fail because of Machine Learning in productivity" but didn't explain what that will be. I feel anyone can say, "Notion will fail because ________," but there are no examples. Personally, I would discourage anyone to use Notion for task management, as it wasn't created for that use. You mentioned that the Notion AI doesn't apply to your prediction, so I wonder what does? Thank you!
Your comment about Teams leaving Notion for the next shiny and maybe more productive thing is a fair and good point, but this video feels like a blanket opinion that doesn't take into account different markets/age groups. Take a note from your comparison to Evernote. Evernote is not dead. It's just not in its prime anymore, but the product still holds much value for many users. Granted, many of them opt for the free plan. I don't believe Notion will "die" at all, but it does have an expanding and loyal user base in students, who are currently enjoying it for free, but will most likely buy into the paid plan once they are out of school/university and may probably be long term customers. Also, Notion has become popular for neurodivergent users who can customize it to their challenging and often changing needs, and machine learning may hinder its customized fit for them. Overall, I think the hype bubble around Notion has indeed deflated, but it has become a mainstream option for people wanting to get better organized in their life and work, and it is not heading to the grave in the upcoming years.
Some of the issues noted in this video can be overcome by using a Notion-based system, like PPV by August Bradley or Notion VIP by William Nutt. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. Any productivity tool I have used (OneNote, Evernote, TheBrain, etc.) requires more than a "few hours" of fiddle fiddling to learn how to use it properly. Sure, find something that works for you. But don't try to leverage your issues with the platform to say that it won't be around in 3-4 years. That just undermines your credibility, which wasn't all that high to start with after taking two of your courses.
This video comes off as clickbait. Just for views. Notion will adapt simple as that. Just mentioning Notion and coming up in search gets you tons of eyes... I typed "Notion AI" in TH-cam search and your hate video is literally 2nd place... ugh.
Before this video I didn’t even know about Notion. Promoting Notion wasn’t the purpose of your video but thanks for making the video anyway. I love Notion! I didn’t know this level of customization existed in a productivity app!
I think you're overall assessment is right but do we know that Notion isn't working on this? It would be in very early stages if they were. Also, wouldn't be surprised if it takes quite a big longer for that sort of AI to become useful. AI outputs require a lot of human curation for the foreseeable future and not sure that works for Notion's big features. (Yes, I know it could be useful for writing, which is a feature they're adding.)
i think a specialized solution is always better than the solution provided from notion. using Todoist for todo, Team Gantt for gantt chart, Jira for kanban, etc is way better than using Notion for everything. like you said, there are already a structure in those specialized app, you don't need to create your structure from scratch. you can just put your input in the structure without thinking too much. having a clean separation for each specialized management task is more important. or else, you'll end up opening Notion and stared blank at the screen for 5 minutes because you're getting overwhelmed. i would use notion as my dashboard, aggregating all of the data and statistics from my specialized app. but not for the actual tasks and time management.
Absolutely... Todoist with google calendar integration is the best free solution I could find. Add Morgen to that instead of google calendar and you can change the event times in morgen and update that on todoist, its brilliant. Could never think of using Notion has a todolist app or calendar app.
Notion is way too unstructured for sure. Most of the userbase would never figure out how to use their more advanced features. There is so much potential but forcing everyone to reinvent the wheel is NOT a viable long term strategy. The learning curve to get notion setup to do basic things is an enormous barrier to entry, you pretty much need to have a "notion whiz kid" in your company to have it function properly.
Is it a coincidence that this comes just after your investment in Mem, and how they are the ones with Machine Learning / AI built in? I understand you left Notion a long time ago, but Machine learning cannot be the only reason. No offline mode, lack of recurring tasks (not templates), lagging or slow as the database size increases - I'm sure these could be some of the reasons.
Good comment. AI isn’t all, it’s complexity of product. For clarity, I think Mem is too complex too. The AI I’m mentioning is nothing like the gen-AI we have now, it’s structured AI
@@toolfinderhq Noted (pun intended). Btw, I also think Notion could go the way of the dinosaurs. You've probably heard about Evernote's recent acquisition. So much for 100 year old company. Look forward to your video on that. I came across mem a long while ago after your introducing it here. But couldn't get myself to use it, will have another look.
Good insight Alessandro! I think maybe that new generation 3rd party connector apps (as in like integromat, IFTTT, zapier) may be able to connect the dots for automation triggers to individually customised Notion databases...? Notion may even buy one of them!
I don't get it that people stop using Notion because they find themselves fiddling with it more than using it. That's a user problem, not a Notion problem. Just set it up how you want and use it. The irony is that you can probably set up Notion to be very similar to whatever it is you move to, but with fewer options. I think Notion, and Evernote, Obsidian et al, might lose some market share because there are more competitors entering he space but I think there'll always be sufficient people like me who prefer an app I can customise to my own purposes rather than being forced to use something how someone else thinks I should do it.
Exactly, teams. Honestly, I don’t see Qatalog is much of a competitor to Notion. Notion (I’m assuming) has a much larger individual customer base than teams. Qatalog right now, seems too limited to have a broader appeal to unseat Notion.
I am an independent knowledge worker and have never used Notion (or anything for that matter that is team oriented). QATALOG does not solve my problems!
Feel the same. I felt that it is way to complicated to setup and there are to many options directly on the fly. Furthermore no native Pen Support and the always online „feature“ where ultimately the deal killers for me.
So far Notion has been helpful as a place for databases and making and planning SOP for a workflow. I use it everyday. For quick tasks through out the day I use todoist a lot. I recently added Obsidian to my Productivity pipeline and it has been a game changer. If obsidian had a better 'no code' system for databases, I would love to totally switch to Obsidian. But as it stands, I need all the three applications to make it work, which is not bad, since it takes care of 90% of the total work, so I'm happy
I used notion over the years and realized its super good only for - TASK MANAGEMENT and team colloboration. However it lacked PRIVACY OF DATA. For Organized Note taking we have better free apps like - logseq, obsidian and also we can offline use and it syncs well across devices. These apps are best for privacy.
I love notion, but it is more a digital LEGO. The creation part is the core joy. The use of it not so much. And when time goes by this gets more and more in the way....
I have had trouble finding an app called catalog for project management which Francesco refers to. For example, it wasn’t in his June 2022 rundown of new productivity apps. If someone can provide a link thanks very much.
Notion is best suited for me using it as a PPV system. Obsidian as a Zettlekasten System. APIs to help streamline the entire process of my triple brain system.
1:58 which coffee shop… Francesco we need to catch up and go together! 😂 I think you captured the biggest problem with Notion it’s the benefit and drawback of creating something that’s completely custom. Although I don’t agree with the “people will go back to structured apps”. I think Notion will help people figure out what they want, and then they’ll create it themselves, or will evolve the way they work to fit more of what they want. For me, I’ve since moved to Obsidian, and although I still fully believe that Notion is an option for many people, I think it’s got quite a lot of work and potential shifts to avoid being stuck, whilst other applications take over. 😊
I just impose my own structure. After working with notion for a little over a year now I have very specific types of things I use it for and particular ways of organizing that information to make it as accessible as possible and to make it as easy as possible for me to add then find them when i need to use them. I think people run into issues when they start trying to ease notion for everything but there are things that notion is good for and things that it isn't. Like there's some information that I'm just going to want to put into a Google sheet because it's much easier to format and access what I need to access. I am never going to use notion for any kind of planning because their calendar functionality is so limited and I'm not interested in learning how to add on a bunch of things, so i use todist. Where notion really excels to me is in its ability to create functional workspaces that have all of the information that I need to carry out various projects in one place.
Have to disagree. This is too much focused on the productivity space but considering the mainstream audience, Notion is more attractive to them rather than other apps with all the fancy gizmos etc. 😅
Honestly, I don't see why Notion would not be able to integrate AI mechanisms inside the app. All of the data is properly structured from a backend perspective and the users are doing all the labelling part, which is a key component of all machine learning processes. The Notion team has the right skills to leverage those assets IMO. Why do you think Notion would not lend itself to AI-optimized workflows?
I have to say I agree with you, but I also grossly disagree with you. I come from an aircraft management background. By your definition, notion takes time to build the structure you want versus using the structure that already exists. Can you say hello Microsoft excel? Microsoft OneNote? Don’t get me started on people that I have spent months trying to configure the perfect spreadsheet that connects to Microsoft access and you have to use it in the color red on every third Tuesday of the month so you can get the right prioritization of parts to be produced. I think that’s the problem is that any type of structure that was created was either not applicable because it lacked features or it had the wrong ones. I remember using all these programs when they first came out, and none of them worked, they force you to use their methodology, which may be limited or completely counterintuitive. I think there will be packets like Legos that will be able to be assembled in a set up configuration, and anything not included will have a chat feature within the app or programs that will take your input and write code to add these features into your customized app. I think this will be shareable like an extension is in a browser, and popular ones could be incentivized into either specific versions or standalone apps later where you could receive a percentage of that sale within the App Store. BOOM. Your incentivizing evolution within individual corporate apps, and the person that’s in control is the user, and they are also the ones developing with the AI their own customized Lego built configuration. I think that is a much more likely scenario, but I could be completely wrong to the point of embarrassment as well 🤣
It's funny how the productivity obsessed people keep changing their minds 😂 1. This tool has fixed features so is limited 2. Wow with no-code I can do everything 3. It's too much work 4. Wow with a fixed-feature tool I don't need so much work
Glad I’m not the only that has similar feelings around this. Customisation is good until it impedes your ability to get things done. I’d rather go back to paper. While I’m sure people do make use of Notion I’ve noticed more stepping away from the hype train. With that said I do find it an interesting app
The novelty of Notion died out for me 5 minutes into using it. I cloned a Kanban board and couldn't change the titles of things and eventually quit and moved to Clickup.
wow, I'm shocked that someone said what everyone is watching happen. code was a phase. now we need AI and a note app that has options that don't need a code or only 3 font sizes for example. notion and others are a distraction from what I really need to be thinking about, learning.
I never even made it through the learning curve to customize. So I agree in a way. It seems to me that it`s more suited for collaboration due to it´s flexibility. But for personal use I rather have something with structure out of the box.
I tried notion like for real putting effort. It looked like the perfect solution that I always wanted. But I'm not someone who will spend hours and hours building the structure so to me Evernote continues to be my anchor. The app is already set and it does what I needs to do.
Hi Francesco: Thanks for a thoughtful post. I've been thinking about this a lot too!!!! Your points are valid in ML and AI. I am already using and playing with ML and AI tools outside of my PKM and productivity apps - some of which are connected via API - And I don't use NOTION for precisely the reasons you state - I think that some of the most exciting work going on in the professional productivity for knowledge workers and personal knowledge management is not directly in the PKM apps space at all but rather in the middleware applications that act as the primary conduit for automation/AI/machine learning - and your NOTES - IDEAS - PRIORITIES. I am never going back to a cloud-based "one app to no code/rule them all." I don't advise it for anybody and steer clients away from using methodologies that require specific applications or templates or do not have robust APIs, easy exporting, and logic for transitioning to future applications. My work and the work I do with clients: their knowledge work is their IP. No individual or company wants to have AI / ML - digest all their stuff, at least not the people I talk to. When data sets are shared optionally, using a robust API, via a customized setup, then everyone wins. Tools that fill this space already exist - on a high-level - Zapier / others. But, I am most grateful to see how powerful tools like READWISE do this even better. Since most of my work is focused on helping individuals and small teams function optimally, I need solutions that ask less, not more. READWISE has done this for me: By connecting to my PKM + Productivity Setup - delivering relevant data, filtering, and beginning to explore how ML tools can improve my notes - reading, and ultimately content. What I appreciate most is that it is all in my fully secured, encrypted, and locally stored backend. I also see future interfaces beyond simply new plugins (Obsidian - Logseq - others) allowing for collaboration and collective sharing - securely with other team members, clients, and real-time project management. When I worked in the software industry - I was part of companies building enterprise-level tools to connect real-time trading data for complex two-party transactions using middleware and mostly SQL-based databases/some object-oriented ones. Undoubtedly, the software architects working on PKM and middleware tools are building this now. You are correct: While Coda, Notion, Airtable, and others have a place - most people want to get things done or for them - not build apps and customize them and support them - themselves. I believe that many individuals - and professionals - will choose to create and use tools that give them better control over their unique data: knowledge + wisdom with robust options to choose data security & local control /encryption VS app/cloud-based architecture that depends upon trust - cloud-based encryption keys - and collective storage. For enterprise-level companies with existing cloud-based and secured systems, the ways this plays out are very different - corporate values will determine how AI / ML tools are deployed across the enterprise and to what level they are utilized to monitor, curate, or collect individual employee data sets for collective action taking or collaboration. - What do you think about Middleware space and specifically the way it could transform both the input and ultimately output of PKM/productivity apps - software?
Okay folks. Crazy! 😳
I filmed this around 40 days ago. And today, Notion launched AI - I’ve been on holiday, so just coming back to this and had this pre-scheduled.
Early opinions: this AI doesn’t fix what I mention, but a good step forward! More like thoughts tomorrow!
Thanks for the post. Was just going to mention that they launched the AI side today. I am so torn between Notion and Evernote. I wish they would blend the two.
I was just going to ask you if Notion's AI announcement is now giving you pause in terms of your conclusion.
So, where is this Catalog app?
@@meganotofthisworld, I couldn't fine it initially, but it's spelled Qatalog.
Are you thinking the team behind Notion isn’t planning to improve and evolve the app over the next 2-3 years (the timeframe of their supposed demise)? Today’s announcement is only reinforcing my point. I believe Notion listens to their customers and will move with them.
I 100% agree because what you described is exactly my own experience with Notion. I loved it at first because it was fun to set things up exactly how I wanted. And then I started realizing I had a ton of pretty pages with barely any content. Kinda like when I used paper planners & bullet journals and I’d spend hours decorating with washi tape but there were no plans inside
Actually that's the reason why I could never use notion. I tried it a couple of times but at the very beginning I noticed I'd waste a lot of time with customization, but my times has always been short. So for me using different apps to do to different things would make more sense.
It does feel like this particular industry is built on giving people excuses to procrastinate. The appeal of setting up, rather than ever getting round to the work.
TOTALLY AGREE I JUST DOODLE AT THE END
I have seen this happen with smarter folks than I. Planner stickers are a best seller as are over decorated planner pages. You just need to find what works for you. I think there are too many gurus out there selling us some ideas that are silly, wasteful and take more time to maintain than doing the tasks on their to do lists.
My problem with Notion is speed. I love using Notion for note-taking at university but the fact that it needs around a minute to open a note from a database on my phone kills the productive vibe for me.
Yes, exactly, Notion is way too slow, and it also can't handle a large text file without lagging like crazy.
The typing experience is poor, the latencies of typing is unbearable
Totally agree
This was the biggest reason I switched to obsidian I just can’t deal with the lag from using it on a phone to a mac or a high end gaming desktop it’s just so slow.
@@datatron100 i also move to Obsidian, the difference is like night and day.
Obsidian is blazing fast.
now i became easily irritated with the other slow notes app.
in Obsidian, you could have an entire novel written in one page, and it would only took like 50kb,
everything open instantly.
you can store and retrieve your data with the speed of thought
but, obsidian not for everyone though,
so, it's not a note app for average people.
because it's kinda like a programmer IDE,
but i like it that way because i'm a software engineer myself.
other people might have different opinion
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You're spot on about the balance of "tool optimizing" vs "actual work". The best tools are the ones that keep you accountable and productive with the least amount of involvement possible. We'll see how Notion adapts to its users - we may see it niche away from the market over time!
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I suspect it's only a small percentage of Notion users that spend all their time "building and setting up". I use Notion heavily, and have spent no time setting it up - I just create notes, and have no need for fancy dashboards.
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Same here. Notion definitely has a learning curve but i don't spend my time decorating it. I messed around with it enough to know what works for me.
I do exactly the same. I spend a lot of time on Notion just using the basics features. For me it's important to navigate easily more than fancy notes. Which I do customize some of them, but not every page.
Bingo. Those that say Notion is hard to use are just pain wrong. You do not need templates or databases.
I adore Notion, tell all my friends about it and that Jazz, have invested tons of time into making it work! But - 90 percent of the time is just making Notion work for me. You're spot on. Customizability doesn't exactly produce productivity.
I would not discount Notion that easily. They’ve demonstrated really good engineering and design skills, the speed at which they deliver new features is great, and stuff actually works (unlike something from e.g. Microsoft, despite all the resources they have…).
And I think Notion has such a solid foundation in the product that none of the points you bring up is something that couldn’t be done with what they have now, or built on top of it. And as I said, they have a track record of being able to deliver. If market is heading where you think it is, there’s nothing that would prevent them from going that way as well.
Design isn’t that great tbh and its not very beginner friendly at all to do advanced things like database tagging, references, etc
I've gone back to Evernote after spending a few months with Notion. I really enjoyed the fact that Notion allowed granular control over pretty much anything you wanted to achieve with it...but it was consuming too much time and I found myself fannying about making great looking notes/tables etc that I wasn't getting any real work done. It felt like more of a plaything than a productivity app - a bit like electronic Lego. I renamed it 'ProcrastiNotion'.
The real upside of this is that even though it may not be the latest, greatest, all-singing, all-dancing of the slew of productivity apps on the market - Evernote suits my workflow perfectly. it does what i want, when i want, and it does it quickly and efficiently. It also has, by far, the best Web Clipper of them all.
"found myself fannying about making great looking notes/tables etc that I wasn't getting any real work done" Exactly. Why bother with notion's learning curve.
Notion has a key advantage (in my opinion) it is free for personal use, every other productivity app is subscription based and for me personally notion is not that hard to use.
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Awful on Android unfortunately
I believe Notion is easy to use for those who have a minimum notion of coding. Which is my case. I do find Notion easy and comfortable, but sometimes I feel limited, or in the other extreme, I feel is such a burden to customize to my liking.
They can't keep that up anymore. With crunch in funding and them being overvalued, Notion soon has to cut extra fat. When? I don't know but they will have to.
Nothing it’s free, your private data it’s in their side, and nobody knows which limitations you will have someday(when they want) and it will be late for you and without alternatives because the worst of all it’s that you are engadget.
Not me.
Please please please DO continue to give your honest opinion. It's most needed.
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Literally just had a conversation with my boss where I talked about how a lot of project management / productivity apps don't give enough creative constraints because they want to serve the most people and be "customizable". But for most teams, that just means everyone starts working differently and you don't get as much alignment and organization (which is why you switched to the tool in the first place). Great video!
Did this video just got uploaded at exactly the same time Notion sends out an e-mail with their new AI feature? :D I guess there will be a place for both, complete personalization brings time saving in other areas, let´s see!
I had just finished my comment to this video when I got the Notion AI email. Bravo to Notion ... and to Francesco's timing! lol.
I've seen now their presentation and no structure thing included, but of course they can implement an ai search engine for template
I was going to comment that 😂
Aha. Thanks guys, but literally coincidence…
Dude, this was such a outside take its quite refreshing. Automation is so intriguing.
Notion AI does not change anything. The fundamental flaw of Notion is the fact that they are more focused on growth than on really helping their clients achieve their goals. No API for years, no repeating tasks, no calendar sync for years - come on! Notion's clients are its investors, not users - you can clearly see it from their business decisions. And that's why Notion is a perfect app for procrastinators, tweakers and solopreneurs that want to sell templates -- but it DOES NOT help do things, advance projects and collaborate. In the same way that watching TH-cam is primarily entertainment and not learning. This will make Notion die very soon.
I agree and it's a nice fresh breeze to have some people come out and be honest, share feedback, give criticism and so forth. Thanks!
Learned about Notion from your channel. Used it for a couple years, but it was so frustrating as it didn't scale when I wanted to do more sophisticated things.
Thank goodness for tools like Obsidian.
Agreed. 2+ yrs daily user. It's been a 2nd brain (PPV system) but in no way would I use it for everything or expect it to. I'm moving into coda simply for more functionality
@@HippieP629 May I ask what coda has better functionality than notion? For me I would like to choose a tool mainly for task and management tool, and be able to check tasks and schedule tasks on the iPhone. I use obsidian for pkm but would like a tool to supplement obsidian, I’m looking into taskade, notion, and coda? Which has advantages in such a use case, or maybe which functions you think coda is better? Nice to see you found the right tool!
Thanks for turning me on to some new tools, though I don't think that I'm the ideal person for these offerings now. Again, thanks, and God bless.
Glad I found this. Every six months ago, I come back around and have a look at Notion again. The problems you mention, as you said, is both a pro and a con. But my biggest issue is still how to easily get my data out and a usable format. I can't go all-in with a system that locks up my data.
Here's the thing: Every single app like this has issues. There will never be an app that is great for everyone. As a teacher, I don't pay a dime for the Pro version of Notion. That is a major selling point for me. I recently tried ClickUp, but their pricing shanagans was too much for me. It's not only super complicated, but their pricing plans make no sense.
The same setup and optimization burnout also became inevitable for manual bullet journaling.
After a couple of years of content focused on incredibly personalized and attractive aesthetics defined that community, we started to see people posting that they'd quit from the exhaustion and pressure.
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Bullet Journaling like that never made sense to me. Why not to have just a planner and do art separately? So your daily planning does not depend on how much time you put into creating a pretty page.
@@fraufuchs9555 Exactly!
100% agree. The future is data, data management and the AI layers ON TOP of that data.
Notion is to 2030 what Evernote is to 2020.
EDIT:
2:52 When I was on your show a few years ago I said this same thing. Notion is to productivity what Instagram was to authenticity.
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I need a flexible app, as Notion, which allows me to set up my structure. This is a great avantage of Notion. I do not feel comfortable with solutions out-of-the-box. The problem of constant setting up a Notion workspace is not a problem of the app. It is a problem that must be solved from the user side.
Exactly
As a serial Evernote user (11 years), i must admit, i was starting to wonder if i should move to Notion purely for the fact that MOST people were talking about it.
Thank goodness that i never did as Evernote people have been updating it alot recently and i am genuinely loving their new updates.
I bought your Notion course and then set out to build a system. I had great fun at first and then... I gave up because of exactly what you said. I was fiddling around too much. Also all the videos I watched were ones like your friend Tig (I think that's his name) where they try to wrap Notion around some 49-step productivity system. I had been a long-time Evernote user and like so many, I was willing to leave 10 years of notes for something better. Thank goodness Evernote got its act together and now I'm back with a simple tool and a simple productivity system.
I’ll be honest Francesco, I like your content,don’t get me wrong but I believe you never actually LOVED Notion, I see it in every video that you talk about it you always look for something else to go to or something that is better than Notion.
I doubt it fits your style and you are still on the wave cause it’s a popular app and keeps on getting more popular by the day, so it’s good for the views to talk about it.
You have a point on what you say but I doubt people who love customization and flexibility will go back to a more closed app just because of the automations of machine learning.
Notion is already on that track and I think they can combine both worlds in their toolset as it seems now that they took the first step with the GTP3 service Notion AI.
- I am quit stunted and shocked with your introductory comment “ Notion will die in 3 to years”. And making the allusion that Qatalog might take over or other apps.
- I think the human race as either a very short memory or we do not know what we really need when it comes to digital asset management.
- Evernote provided to us a well structured way to capture our data but agreed it is very rigid in doing so.
- I have been in the IT field for more then 45 years.
- Early on I recognized the need to manage my digital asset.
- I was an early adapter of Evernote - used it for more then 5 years and had about 23,000 documents into it.
- Evernote was certainly an evolution in capturing my digital needs.
- Like many others I was kind of stuck into the Evernote rigid structure and I would have loved to see that company be able to adjust and evolve there product to the over growing need of managing digital assets.
- I came across Notion and BOOM I was hooked and I went to a painful migration from Evernote to Notion. And I was sad to leave the Evernote app.
- Yes, the Notion initial goals which were to create a one shop stop app to do it all for us and being super flexible on how we wanted to organize our digital life appealed to me. And still does.
- Where I am having a hard time with your comments and position about the future of Notion is the fact that you and all of us have been running on top of the wave of the Notion product for many years now. And now that we are seing new trends in the industry influencer like you are ready to condemned Notion and send then into a similar spiral then Evernote - that isn’t fair.
- Notion they lived to there promised and offered an ever growing app to fulfill our needs.
- Saying that Notion is way to flexible is a sin… People that complain that they spend too much time into designing there structure into Notion might be an indication that after all they do not have content to manage at the end… There approach is up side down - first you have a need / data / content and then you create whatever structure that will support your data gathering.
- As a very important influencer like you that got a lot of visibility and a very interesting ride on this app, your position should be a bit more loyal to Notion and help them grow.
- Of course also as a digital society I think we have a responsibility towards app creator like Notion - instead of condemned them let’s help them by providing our needs, suggestions, ideas and be patience to give then the time to improve it. This will serve us a lot better then pushing them aside for another app.
I absolutely agree with you. Very spot on.
It is attractive & interactive at first.
From my experience with notion I've spent so much time thinking I'll be saving more by customizing everything in one stop app but after a while I figured out that I've wasted time more than saving any! It is supposed to be a productivity app & it was eating away from my productivity time when other apps come ready with all the features that I needed.!!
Now I learned to practice discernment in the productivity area because it is loaded with trends, peer pressure & marketing as any other field!
Don't agree. Notion adds stuff like AI at a pretty fast pace. Whatever's going to replace Notion had better get started because Notion's going to get there before they do.
Interesting take! I feel like Notion will probably lose steam at some point, however, I don’t think it’s going to “die”.
They’re big, they’re in touch with the market, and always shipping new features that work really seamlessly and don’t over complicate things.
Love your videos and your vision man, I’m going to start testing out Mem and Qatalog for myself. 😊
Maybe I should make some more speculative videos like this as well.
It will not die. My guess is some company will offer them a pile of cash. Or, it will become too complex and bloated with features. Maybe another Notionesque app will come along and people will flock to it.
Good overview and certainly a possibility...I'll keep this one next to your "Evernote is Dead" video from a few years back. ;) Cheers!
It is crazy when a barista knows anything. I completely agree.
Hey Francesco and team! Love your videos. You’ve been an important source of info for me as I’m building my cosmetics business. I think I have a perspective that might be valuable here.
I just got on Notion over the summer, and it has been a GAME CHANGER for me. I know it takes a long time to manually set up a new space. However, the time I spent wrestling with glitchy integrations and automations on ClickUp, Trello, Teamwork, Teams and Google chats was infuriating and even more laborious. Plus, the sheer enjoyment I get out of making a pretty new workspace on Notion has been an incentive for me to actually sit down and do work that would otherwise be very tedious.
I think apps like Notion are the future of productivity for small businesses, classrooms, and any other non-tech focused operation. It looks like a word doc or apple notes when you open it up, so it feels intuitive for someone unfamiliar with productivity apps. However, I can take the time to set up a database with deeper features for my team on a platform they already know, so it takes a huge load off my shoulders in training them.
For context, I’m the only full-timer in my business. Everyone else works async and part time with me on a contract basis. My business partners are also boomers, so getting them to even use Google Docs has been like pulling teeth. Notion has been the only platform I could even get them to try using. Also, I can print Notion pages, so if they’re being stubborn, I can literally just show them on paper what I’ve been working on. I also love how easily I can share a single page with outsiders via email, so I have control over what they have access too. I could go on forever. But I hope you get my point! There’s a huge gap between the “best” productivity platforms, and the platforms you can actually get “normal” people to opt into. I think Notion falls into the second category!
Thanks and keep up the great work!
I feel the same, I quit notion after 2 months, too many time building and not using
why? you do your setup then it is there and you only have to do small changes here and there if you want.
@@Djblois1 I use only for me, not managing teams, I want an app that makes the structure for me not that I have to create it and think it, I want to pay for solution , not the tools to build one.
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@@Djblois1 The thing with Notion is, it's great. If you know what you want out of it. I use it to manage a user onboarding workflow, for example. Super useful to have every card on the Kanban be a full note page with about twenty custom properties. It's really easy to keep on track with that.
But when you don't have the structure figured out beforehand, like with more general notetaking, it can get annoying really fast.
@@Komatik_yeah use something like onenote for that
I couldn't agree more. I don't have any other app that I both love and deeply hate on my devices more. Notion makes the impossible easy while making the easy surprisingly difficult. I hope that Notion improves because when I first downloaded it I thought I was looking at a glimpse into the future, but I had no idea that glimpse would still be a slightly wider glimpse 4 years later.
Even before seeing Notion's announcement today (that they just added AI 😄), while watching this video I was really unclear as to *why* you thought Notion wouldn't move into that space. I think as a general note, it's great to have opinions and "hot takes", etc., but it'd be even better to explain the reasoning (if any?) behind your belief.
As far as AI specifically, perhaps you aren't aware of how the current AI surge is happening? It's *almost all* coming from a *single* API: GPT-3. It's an openly accessible API so literally *anyone* can use it. And it is ridiculously simple to use. That means integrating it into e.g. Notion is not a massive challenge (when weighed against the apparent level of feature it presents as to the user). Database templating was probably a harder problem for them to solve dev-wise.
So Notion is making a splash with AI this morning, but what they're doing is already being done by 10s of other companies and tools, from Lex to Moonbeam, to tiny Github projects that are available entirely for free. I don't know for sure that Notion's is driven by GPT-3 but it seems quite likely. If not that particular model+API, then certainly some other large company's pre-existing, trained large language model. 99% likely that Notion did not create their own AI here, they're just integrating AI into their tool in a reasonably good way, but it's definitely not unique. There is already an Obsidian plugin that does similar, for example: github.com/nhaouari/obsidian-textgenerator-plugin
So again I'm a bit confused why you thought Notion wouldn't do this. It seems like an obvious thing to add for Notion to get on the current AI hype train. This comment reads like a big criticism, but I'm genuinely just curious what your perspective was (and how it has changed with today's announcement).
All that said, you're absolutely right that building effective tools and workflows is not solved by this, and *that* AI problem is going to be a lot harder to solve in a general way, and so will be more likely to need to be built by each product team. Or at the least a general implementation (akin to GPT-3 but for productivity workflows) would probably require more work to implement since its inputs and outputs would be much more complicated than the simple text that GPT-3 operates on.
I think he means something a bit different. Not just text generation. But true understanding of your organization and making recommendations and automating actions based on a deep understanding of your business.
@@ifonlysam I agree, that's a good read on what he meant, but he didn't give much detail or reasoning for that in the video, nor did he distinguish it from the more obvious text-generating AI that Notion now has. Given its growing prevalence, I think that would have been a key distinction to make.
My feeling on functioning organizational AI is actually that very few existing, large project/work management apps will do effective AI internally. We're likely to see a lot of AI workflow startups being created outside of these companies (this has already begun), and I would imagine we'll see some acquisitions by larger companies to try to internalize some of this tech. Notion has been doing this quite a bit already of late.
But I would predict challenges in the integration process as every one of these apps - Notion, ClickUp, Monday, etc. - have very well-defined and deeply-integrated data and conceptual models in their tools, and AI will need to adapt to them. That's a tough challenge. But AI has been surprising me lately, so I look forward to being surprised some more in this domain in a few years. 😁
@@ogreenius true! A lot has happened since he made the video haha so maybe he didn't expect Notion AI so soon.
01:24 the no code area started way earlier in the 90ties with FileMaker (it still exist). I was able to build stuff with no prior programming knowledge
FileMaker lost the opportunity to be mainstream. It had a product called 'bento'. And it was a brilliant application on ipad. Its more like airtable. Though all these no code softwares share the same database functionality.
If your productivity depends on 27 apps, you have no resiliency and you’re not productive. This is precisely why ERP systems are dying. Every time I turn around at work, someone has tried to bolt something else onto our ERP system. It’s infuriating the downstream issues that have to be worked through…every time. So many root cause problems, so many bandaids, and so much complexity that no one knows the whole thing…and the things they DO know change, so their knowledge degrades quickly. The systems that will survive will be scaleable, developable, be totally customizable and incorporate AI…exactly the path that Notion are taking. I want ONE place to do everything where I see every aspect of everything. When I need something entirely new, I don’t want to have to source the world again, go through an entire learning curve again, AND go through a whole build, test and integration. I want to be able to build it exactly how I want it with the knowledge I already have…AND have my new thing work seamlessly with everything I already have WITHOUT having to do a whole new integration. THIS is productivity. I get if you’re addicted to novelty and want to keep learning new things. It’s exciting. Makes sense. BUT, if real, true productivity is what you’re after, then ONE place that is entirely customizable, developable, that grows in every way with you is THE holy grail for a reason.
Solution: Just use what you make in Notion
I have all my stuff in notion, and I think I won't be using something else for a long time.
Ali Abdaal coined a term a couple of years ago about the problematic you mentioning with Notion : productivity procrastination. It's been two months since I'm struggling between Notion tasks managing and Todoist and its not normal to do more time writing task than actually doing it.
Interestingly enough, I use the same setup. Notion + Todoist. As we are both inspired from Ali, i'm not surprised. I recently added a third software to my daily use and that is Obsidian. This is how my workflow is divided. Every morning, I set up my todoist which syncs with my google calendar. Then for all the content planning and Setting up SOP and system info, I use notion. And for all the scripts and detailed research, copy pasting stuff from the internet, etc. I use Obsidian. I quite like the setup as these three apps get 90% of the work done for me. You can give it a shot too, all the best
I moved to notion from Trello for task management. I started thinking that it could even be a better use treating it like Google Drive. You can upload pretty much anything and it is a little easier to find stuff than GDrive.
What is this « catalog » app ? Never heard of it…
A link ?
The problem with evernote is the limitations of the free use. Forcing the people to pay for usage, limitating the free sharing between devices, forced us to seek another solution to manage notes. Notion is amazing got lucky because the evernote´s greedy decision.
Great video - and great problem identification. Asana had/has a very similar problem for teams - it’s so customizable that you have to go in with a plan or all you get is amplified chaos that takes way too much time to manage. I’m hopeful that Notion can find a sustainable niche. Personally, I think it’s great for creating written content collectively and horrible as a stand-alone team project management tool.
Notion is free for personal use. This is a huge advantage.
Interesting takes. I totally relate with thinking differently than the crowd and being ahead of the world by multiple years, and being met with hostility in the short term but being right in the long term, so I get your struggle here. Also very valid criticism. I'm sitting here wondering about the future of local storage and backups, as I've become way too dependent on apps like Notion to the point where if they wanted to wipe out years of my data, they totally could.
I sense you could be right. Would you explain some more concrete examples of Machine Learning, specifically in team productivity, that you think will be normal in the future? Because so far, your video said, "Notion will fail because of Machine Learning in productivity" but didn't explain what that will be. I feel anyone can say, "Notion will fail because ________," but there are no examples.
Personally, I would discourage anyone to use Notion for task management, as it wasn't created for that use. You mentioned that the Notion AI doesn't apply to your prediction, so I wonder what does? Thank you!
Your comment about Teams leaving Notion for the next shiny and maybe more productive thing is a fair and good point, but this video feels like a blanket opinion that doesn't take into account different markets/age groups. Take a note from your comparison to Evernote. Evernote is not dead. It's just not in its prime anymore, but the product still holds much value for many users. Granted, many of them opt for the free plan.
I don't believe Notion will "die" at all, but it does have an expanding and loyal user base in students, who are currently enjoying it for free, but will most likely buy into the paid plan once they are out of school/university and may probably be long term customers. Also, Notion has become popular for neurodivergent users who can customize it to their challenging and often changing needs, and machine learning may hinder its customized fit for them.
Overall, I think the hype bubble around Notion has indeed deflated, but it has become a mainstream option for people wanting to get better organized in their life and work, and it is not heading to the grave in the upcoming years.
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Some of the issues noted in this video can be overcome by using a Notion-based system, like PPV by August Bradley or Notion VIP by William Nutt. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. Any productivity tool I have used (OneNote, Evernote, TheBrain, etc.) requires more than a "few hours" of fiddle fiddling to learn how to use it properly. Sure, find something that works for you. But don't try to leverage your issues with the platform to say that it won't be around in 3-4 years. That just undermines your credibility, which wasn't all that high to start with after taking two of your courses.
This video comes off as clickbait. Just for views. Notion will adapt simple as that. Just mentioning Notion and coming up in search gets you tons of eyes... I typed "Notion AI" in TH-cam search and your hate video is literally 2nd place... ugh.
The follow up to this is out tomorrow
Before this video I didn’t even know about Notion. Promoting Notion wasn’t the purpose of your video but thanks for making the video anyway. I love Notion! I didn’t know this level of customization existed in a productivity app!
I think you're overall assessment is right but do we know that Notion isn't working on this? It would be in very early stages if they were. Also, wouldn't be surprised if it takes quite a big longer for that sort of AI to become useful. AI outputs require a lot of human curation for the foreseeable future and not sure that works for Notion's big features. (Yes, I know it could be useful for writing, which is a feature they're adding.)
i think a specialized solution is always better than the solution provided from notion.
using Todoist for todo, Team Gantt for gantt chart, Jira for kanban, etc
is way better than using Notion for everything.
like you said, there are already a structure in those specialized app, you don't need to create your structure from scratch.
you can just put your input in the structure without thinking too much.
having a clean separation for each specialized management task is more important.
or else, you'll end up opening Notion and stared blank at the screen for 5 minutes because you're getting overwhelmed.
i would use notion as my dashboard, aggregating all of the data and statistics from my specialized app.
but not for the actual tasks and time management.
Absolutely... Todoist with google calendar integration is the best free solution I could find. Add Morgen to that instead of google calendar and you can change the event times in morgen and update that on todoist, its brilliant. Could never think of using Notion has a todolist app or calendar app.
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can you suggest some apps with tree structure?
Notion is way too unstructured for sure. Most of the userbase would never figure out how to use their more advanced features. There is so much potential but forcing everyone to reinvent the wheel is NOT a viable long term strategy. The learning curve to get notion setup to do basic things is an enormous barrier to entry, you pretty much need to have a "notion whiz kid" in your company to have it function properly.
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Is it a coincidence that this comes just after your investment in Mem, and how they are the ones with Machine Learning / AI built in? I understand you left Notion a long time ago, but Machine learning cannot be the only reason. No offline mode, lack of recurring tasks (not templates), lagging or slow as the database size increases - I'm sure these could be some of the reasons.
Good comment.
AI isn’t all, it’s complexity of product. For clarity, I think Mem is too complex too.
The AI I’m mentioning is nothing like the gen-AI we have now, it’s structured AI
@@toolfinderhq Noted (pun intended). Btw, I also think Notion could go the way of the dinosaurs. You've probably heard about Evernote's recent acquisition. So much for 100 year old company. Look forward to your video on that.
I came across mem a long while ago after your introducing it here. But couldn't get myself to use it, will have another look.
Good insight Alessandro! I think maybe that new generation 3rd party connector apps (as in like integromat, IFTTT, zapier) may be able to connect the dots for automation triggers to individually customised Notion databases...? Notion may even buy one of them!
They did. They bought automate.
Can't find Qatalig in the play store
I don't get it that people stop using Notion because they find themselves fiddling with it more than using it. That's a user problem, not a Notion problem. Just set it up how you want and use it. The irony is that you can probably set up Notion to be very similar to whatever it is you move to, but with fewer options.
I think Notion, and Evernote, Obsidian et al, might lose some market share because there are more competitors entering he space but I think there'll always be sufficient people like me who prefer an app I can customise to my own purposes rather than being forced to use something how someone else thinks I should do it.
Qatalog no longer has a free tier. No chance they overtake Notion without a freemium avenue to their product.
For teams though
Exactly, teams. Honestly, I don’t see Qatalog is much of a competitor to Notion. Notion (I’m assuming) has a much larger individual customer base than teams. Qatalog right now, seems too limited to have a broader appeal to unseat Notion.
I am an independent knowledge worker and have never used Notion (or anything for that matter that is team oriented). QATALOG does not solve my problems!
It’s most suited to teams, tools like that in general - so Notion would suit you better here. Good to see you in comments Harry
@@toolfinderhq I have gone over to Napkin app. for most needs.
Feel the same. I felt that it is way to complicated to setup and there are to many options directly on the fly. Furthermore no native Pen Support and the always online „feature“ where ultimately the deal killers for me.
So far Notion has been helpful as a place for databases and making and planning SOP for a workflow. I use it everyday. For quick tasks through out the day I use todoist a lot. I recently added Obsidian to my Productivity pipeline and it has been a game changer. If obsidian had a better 'no code' system for databases, I would love to totally switch to Obsidian. But as it stands, I need all the three applications to make it work, which is not bad, since it takes care of 90% of the total work, so I'm happy
I used notion over the years and realized its super good only for - TASK MANAGEMENT and team colloboration. However it lacked PRIVACY OF DATA.
For Organized Note taking we have better free apps like - logseq, obsidian and also we can offline use and it syncs well across devices. These apps are best for privacy.
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I love notion, but it is more a digital LEGO. The creation part is the core joy. The use of it not so much. And when time goes by this gets more and more in the way....
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I have had trouble finding an app called catalog for project management which Francesco refers to. For example, it wasn’t in his June 2022 rundown of new productivity apps. If someone can provide a link thanks very much.
I like the ability of OTTER transcription to auto generate outline for every transcribed file.
Notion is won , whether they will stay as an app or not.
At the time , they exactly what i needed : in terms of 💡 idea , visually , organization.
Notion is best suited for me using it as a PPV system. Obsidian as a Zettlekasten System. APIs to help streamline the entire process of my triple brain system.
1:58 which coffee shop… Francesco we need to catch up and go together! 😂
I think you captured the biggest problem with Notion it’s the benefit and drawback of creating something that’s completely custom. Although I don’t agree with the “people will go back to structured apps”.
I think Notion will help people figure out what they want, and then they’ll create it themselves, or will evolve the way they work to fit more of what they want.
For me, I’ve since moved to Obsidian, and although I still fully believe that Notion is an option for many people, I think it’s got quite a lot of work and potential shifts to avoid being stuck, whilst other applications take over. 😊
Really impressive coincidence this video today
I just impose my own structure. After working with notion for a little over a year now I have very specific types of things I use it for and particular ways of organizing that information to make it as accessible as possible and to make it as easy as possible for me to add then find them when i need to use them. I think people run into issues when they start trying to ease notion for everything but there are things that notion is good for and things that it isn't. Like there's some information that I'm just going to want to put into a Google sheet because it's much easier to format and access what I need to access. I am never going to use notion for any kind of planning because their calendar functionality is so limited and I'm not interested in learning how to add on a bunch of things, so i use todist. Where notion really excels to me is in its ability to create functional workspaces that have all of the information that I need to carry out various projects in one place.
Have to disagree. This is too much focused on the productivity space but considering the mainstream audience, Notion is more attractive to them rather than other apps with all the fancy gizmos etc. 😅
New to the channel! What do you think about Anytype?
Hey Bre- thanks for your support! And welcome!
I’m reviewing in a few weeks
Honestly, I don't see why Notion would not be able to integrate AI mechanisms inside the app. All of the data is properly structured from a backend perspective and the users are doing all the labelling part, which is a key component of all machine learning processes. The Notion team has the right skills to leverage those assets IMO. Why do you think Notion would not lend itself to AI-optimized workflows?
I have to say I agree with you, but I also grossly disagree with you.
I come from an aircraft management background. By your definition, notion takes time to build the structure you want versus using the structure that already exists.
Can you say hello Microsoft excel? Microsoft OneNote? Don’t get me started on people that I have spent months trying to configure the perfect spreadsheet that connects to Microsoft access and you have to use it in the color red on every third Tuesday of the month so you can get the right prioritization of parts to be produced.
I think that’s the problem is that any type of structure that was created was either not applicable because it lacked features or it had the wrong ones. I remember using all these programs when they first came out, and none of them worked, they force you to use their methodology, which may be limited or completely counterintuitive.
I think there will be packets like Legos that will be able to be assembled in a set up configuration, and anything not included will have a chat feature within the app or programs that will take your input and write code to add these features into your customized app. I think this will be shareable like an extension is in a browser, and popular ones could be incentivized into either specific versions or standalone apps later where you could receive a percentage of that sale within the App Store. BOOM.
Your incentivizing evolution within individual corporate apps, and the person that’s in control is the user, and they are also the ones developing with the AI their own customized Lego built configuration.
I think that is a much more likely scenario, but I could be completely wrong to the point of embarrassment as well 🤣
Paid notes apps seem like a waste when great apps like OneNote, Keep, and Apple Notes are free.
It's funny how the productivity obsessed people keep changing their minds 😂
1. This tool has fixed features so is limited
2. Wow with no-code I can do everything
3. It's too much work
4. Wow with a fixed-feature tool I don't need so much work
Notion just launched Notion AI today - it‘s insane!
Glad I’m not the only that has similar feelings around this. Customisation is good until it impedes your ability to get things done. I’d rather go back to paper. While I’m sure people do make use of Notion I’ve noticed more stepping away from the hype train. With that said I do find it an interesting app
Humans over time have a strong Desiree to create -- and to retain a measure of control.
If Notion learns from Evernote, I think they’ll thrive.
The novelty of Notion died out for me 5 minutes into using it. I cloned a Kanban board and couldn't change the titles of things and eventually quit and moved to Clickup.
Have tried Notion. For one hour a couple of times. Never clicked...
Roam Research, and perhaps TANA does the job well 😃
I just got an email from Notion titled "Intoducing Notion AI"
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What experience have people has using Notion templates? Perhaps this is part of the future here.
wow, I'm shocked that someone said what everyone is watching happen. code was a phase. now we need AI and a note app that has options that don't need a code or only 3 font sizes for example. notion and others are a distraction from what I really need to be thinking about, learning.
They don’t have an Apple Watch App and that to me is a deal breaker for apps where easy capturing is a must.
I never even made it through the learning curve to customize. So I agree in a way. It seems to me that it`s more suited for collaboration due to it´s flexibility. But for personal use I rather have something with structure out of the box.
Do you have a different opinion now that Notion AI and Prebuilt Workflow and Structures have been launched?
Totally nailed it and I am designing one right now. Totally sick of this absolute fluid approach. Too much choice is bad user experience.
What is/are the best app/apps to easily replicate notion workspace through its export function(import notions export files)?
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Notion can just expend template option so there can be templates with buid in ML.
added to this all of the problems are of course no local database and a hideous UI and hideous design
Where is end-to-end encryption? Where is offline mode? Where is hard copy backups?
solid vid 💯
Nice coincidence🤪
Aha. It was!
I tried notion like for real putting effort. It looked like the perfect solution that I always wanted. But I'm not someone who will spend hours and hours building the structure so to me Evernote continues to be my anchor. The app is already set and it does what I needs to do.
Evernote is ugly for me LOL
CANT believe no mention of Allo or Capacities yet Francisco
Capacities! 👏👏👏
Qatslog is hard for beginners and its not easy . I was trying template and it wasn't workings at all
Hi Francesco: Thanks for a thoughtful post. I've been thinking about this a lot too!!!! Your points are valid in ML and AI. I am already using and playing with ML and AI tools outside of my PKM and productivity apps - some of which are connected via API - And I don't use NOTION for precisely the reasons you state - I think that some of the most exciting work going on in the professional productivity for knowledge workers and personal knowledge management is not directly in the PKM apps space at all but rather in the middleware applications that act as the primary conduit for automation/AI/machine learning - and your NOTES - IDEAS - PRIORITIES. I am never going back to a cloud-based "one app to no code/rule them all." I don't advise it for anybody and steer clients away from using methodologies that require specific applications or templates or do not have robust APIs, easy exporting, and logic for transitioning to future applications. My work and the work I do with clients: their knowledge work is their IP. No individual or company wants to have AI / ML - digest all their stuff, at least not the people I talk to. When data sets are shared optionally, using a robust API, via a customized setup, then everyone wins. Tools that fill this space already exist - on a high-level - Zapier / others. But, I am most grateful to see how powerful tools like READWISE do this even better. Since most of my work is focused on helping individuals and small teams function optimally, I need solutions that ask less, not more. READWISE has done this for me: By connecting to my PKM + Productivity Setup - delivering relevant data, filtering, and beginning to explore how ML tools can improve my notes - reading, and ultimately content. What I appreciate most is that it is all in my fully secured, encrypted, and locally stored backend. I also see future interfaces beyond simply new plugins (Obsidian - Logseq - others) allowing for collaboration and collective sharing - securely with other team members, clients, and real-time project management. When I worked in the software industry - I was part of companies building enterprise-level tools to connect real-time trading data for complex two-party transactions using middleware and mostly SQL-based databases/some object-oriented ones. Undoubtedly, the software architects working on PKM and middleware tools are building this now. You are correct: While Coda, Notion, Airtable, and others have a place - most people want to get things done or for them - not build apps and customize them and support them - themselves. I believe that many individuals - and professionals - will choose to create and use tools that give them better control over their unique data: knowledge + wisdom with robust options to choose data security & local control /encryption VS app/cloud-based architecture that depends upon trust - cloud-based encryption keys - and collective storage. For enterprise-level companies with existing cloud-based and secured systems, the ways this plays out are very different - corporate values will determine how AI / ML tools are deployed across the enterprise and to what level they are utilized to monitor, curate, or collect individual employee data sets for collective action taking or collaboration. - What do you think about Middleware space and specifically the way it could transform both the input and ultimately output of PKM/productivity apps - software?
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