Dear NuSensei, Thank you for your tip on injury pain on the bow shoulder because I had the biggest pain in my bow shoulder a sharp feeling like you mentioned. After you demonstrated proper form for the bow shoulder the pain was GONE! make a long story short I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart because you saved my ability to do archery. Thank you !
Great advice! A father and son came to the range with brand new archery equipment. The father was attempting to draw his 45# bow and his 14 y.o. son had a 25# bow. It was sad to see them struggle draw those bows, with contorted, scrunched up bodies, and wild shots completely missing the 10 yard hay bail almost every time and unable to even get close to a proper anchor. They were frustrated and were not having fun. I never saw them again -- very sad.
People boast too much about their draw weight. normally a teen should start on 14-24 pounds and a starting adult should start on 18-32 pounds. It doesn't matter if you can draw a 60lb bow 10 times. You should be able to draw your bow hundreads of times with consistent form and with no pain at all.
mcsimeon thefin I started shooting a 30 pound fiberglass longbow a few years ago. Not the best thing when being younger. I just watched jeff Kavanaugh videos to correct form and I also built my muscles up. I feel most comfortable shooting 35 pounds now. But my brothers 45 pound bow is fun from time to time.
Very helpful. A lot of blokes need to button down the ego! I'm coming back to archery after a bad motocross induced shoulder injury and a three year layoff. My 60lb compound lies in its case, my 50lb Bear rests unstrung and my 42lb GMX looks good on the mantlepiece. But I've dusted down the kids' 18/22lb bows and set up the 18m range... Loving it! Never be too proud! I hope to use my old bows in maybe a year and aim to get back to my old 200 arrows a day. But for now, 25 arrows at 18lbs is what I can do safely, but I'm stoked to be back shooting. Shame my daughter's bow is pink!
Answered my question before I asked it. Apparently I was taught improper form in my teenage years. Mind you, I haven’t picked up a bow in at least a decade...but in recent years I’ve began developing an interest in making things for myself and my family, including bows. You’ve got awesome and informative videos and I can’t wait to finish the entire series!
Poundage is not important. I'm someone who as a child/young teenager was part of a swim club for 8 years and then before I started archery spent another year swimming 3 times a week. I had pretty strong and developped back muscles thanks to this. Disregarding that I started with a club bow for my first month which was 26# and before I went for a rental to see if archery was for me I tested out other peoples bows who had a higher poundage and while I could handle 40# I felt it put too much stress on me and made me lose form. There is no shame in making that call. In the end I went for a 35# rental since it was the only one left in shop and shot that for 3 months before finally buying my own bow and now being comfortable with 40#. After that I spent another 6 months before now finally going up to 45# where I'll probably stay at as I like switching between my 40# on my off days and my 45# on other days. Poundage is not important, it doesn't equal anything really. Proper and consistent form and training is what makes you a good archer. One of the best archers in our club swears by his 35# Martin and he feels good with it. If you're at a club don't be afraid to ask if you can shoot other people's bows. If they agree it'll give you a great insight into what you can or cannot handle and believe me, the ones who are like me love nothing else than seeing someone enjoy the bow that they themselves shoot with.
This is SO super helpful, thank you!! This helped me nail (or, at least, work on nailing) how to use my back muscles correctly. Really can't tell you how much I appreciate your videos. As someone who can't afford coaching I just am so glad to have found your work.
Thank you for the video. I have heard a lot about cause of draw shoulder injury but this is the first time I see potential cause of bow shoulder injury. Very insightful. Thanks
Thank's NUsensei, you've helped me be able to identify the fault in my technique which is causing my draw arm's shoulder to be in pain. Thankfully I have caught it early on so I will be able to prevent any further injury.
Thank you for your videos. I started archery approx a month ago, and I borrowed a 40 pound off of a friend. Next to shooting everyday I have a hard physical job, and even next to that Im a small dude, computer nerd and lazy. I went out to buy a bow myself, and was looking for 30 pound limbs, however. Because I had been using my friends bow, the damage was done. Im now down with a pulled muscel in the shoulder, and i wasent even going Macho. Injurys are serious, and people need to be aware of the risks. Thank you, Sir.
Sharp pain in my bow holding shoulder brought me here. I'm new was hoping I would get used to the movements and get better. Now I'm thinking my form is part of the problem.
I watched this with my class mate that has no knowledge on archery and she said “why didn’t he just shot the bow nothings gonna happen” then i said “you cant the bow will break,it’s called “dry firing” and she said “dry firing?theres no water” *slaps my face*
Huh. "Sources indicate that "dry" originates from exhibitions by late-19th-century fire departments in the United States, where drills (runs) were conducted for public viewing without the use of water (dry)." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_fire#Etymology
I’ve been using the clicker for a couple weeks and I started with pain in my bow arm a few days ago, specially sore after training. Today your video showed up in the TH-cam recommend videos for me ;) It is a very helpful for a better understanding about the possible cause of my problem. You have answers for all my questions and doubts about archery. Thank you
Thanks heaps for this! I'm 17 and have been making bows from scratch and shooting them at home for ten years and I've never had problems until now! A few weeks ago I finished an ash longbow at 50-55#. I can just about pull that weight comfortably now, but the tension and pain in my neck and shouders I can now confedently attribute to my arrow lenghth. The last batch of arrows I made are simply way to short, as they were split from a log measuring around half a meter! They are pretty, but problematic, as there is simply no way I can get to full draw and the locking position with the lower back muscles; hence the shoulder pain! Thanks again, I will either make some longer arrows or wait till I can buy some store-boughts (as much as I hate them!)
Just had a recent chat with a youngster about 'front shoulder pain' on one of your more current vids, and lo, here's an old vid about injury. Funny how different physiologies react differently to the same movement. High draw technique caused me shoulder issues both front and rear. On the other hand, a rotational draw with the forearm following the arrow plane alleviated rear shoulder pain, engaged back muscles more efficiently and aided in setting the front shoulder correctly. It also provides me with a much more stable path to a consistent anchor. The archers (I know) who 'high draw' all shoot low poundage target recurve. Stick a higher poundage (>40 lbs) trad bow(62" and>) in their hand for an extended period and soon enough the dramatic 'high draw' flourish and low anchor make way for a rotational draw with a higher anchor. And yet the fundamentals are still the same. Great vid.
my "favorite" archery injury i have had is a rather large cut from when the bottom limb of my bow snapped and got launched into my arm. that is when i started to check the limbs on my bows before and after every shooting session.
Love the tabletop shirt. Oh, and your videos have been massively helpful also I guess =]. I actually couldn't find a 40 lb bow in my area, so I started with a Samick Sage 45 lb. The place I bought the bow at was super helpful and made sure that I was drawing properly and all that. It's nice having a place nearby with people who actually care.
Wil Wheaton is probably happy you helped contribute to season 3 :) I take it you enjoy his shows as I do as well :) I totally agree about learning on a lower powered bow and establishing good form and technique. This is true for almost any sport where equipment is involved. In music though, getting that expensive guitar you intend to keep forever to learn on can be helpful because their play-ability is often better than a cheap newbie guitar where you have to press harder and it hurts your fingers more. In both situations, the equipment doesn't make you better, but learning how to use them properly and consistent practice does. But of course, you already know this :)
New archer here! I have to thank you once again Sensei. I've begun to feel pain in the draw shoulder after training...and got worried. I suspected it was my form or the heavier poundage that i got on the new bow. Turns out it was probably both. And even If I knew the correct draw movement (I had a pretty good score with my barebow months ago), somehow I subconsciously relapsed to the wrong movement at 6:55
Dude, I think you just helped me save my rotator cuff. I make my own bows but have little way to test draw weight. My bows shoot great and with lots of power... Too much power. After a few days of shooting my first recurves, I thought my arm would fall off. Not so much the draw as the release... Woof! Talk about "tennis" elbow.
A coupla years back, I was shooting more than 200+ arrows every day. My only other physical activity was daily walking. I believe this potentially led to my suffering rotator cuff tendinitis; with symptoms of severe 'clunking' `noises` EACH TIME I lifted my arm in everyday activities, and with drastically reduced arm strength in everyday activities. However, there was hardly any noticeable pain to speak of. With this scary 'clunking' following normal common movement ranges of my String Drawing shoulder, I put a stop to backyard shooting, lest I contribute to `real` and permanent damage. Some weeks later, I again gave shooting a try: but this time, I drastically modified my way for withdrawing an arrow from my hip quiver. (you see, the first I started noticing the onset of 'clunking' in my String Shoulder, was each time I withdrew an arrow from my quiver. It only developed into 'clunking' throughout other more-normal motions later, after I started noticing it here, first) Through modification of arrow withdrawing, I had successfully halted the one-for-one clunk per arrow 'retrieval'. But my shoulder continued to mis-behave when NOT shooting. This is why for most of the last two years, I have voluntarily ceased archery shooting. For just over the last month, I have returned: doing shoulder exercises and shooting from a 15# fibreglass kiddie stick bow; leaving my 'proper' 36# Olympic recurve un-used. Currently, the String shoulder is still of drastically reduced arm strength and can suffer the most debilitating bust of pain anytime it gets bumped accidentally. Not only did I significantly modify the way for retrieving arrows from my hip quiver, but I significantly modified the way I draw the bow. I studied the way J.C. Valladont moved 'his' drawing arm, copied it, but additionally held my bow arm equally low-down; level with my drawing arm. . . . . . . . . . This has had the effect of making my Tricep participate more and my shoulder participate less until I reach full draw: where I anchor and have my back take on most of the load. . . . I am totally pain-free when shooting in this manner. I have no clunking noises either. I have full strength with this direction of motion --- It's the general daily activities where I can [sometimes] cop indignant and most debilitating busts of pain for the high-treason of 'not being on guard'. . . . . . . . Nu Sensei's mention of the rotational angular draw (2018 video) has captured my attention ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Now I have taken it to my soul, too, it seems. To me, it just makes good horse sense ! ! ! Over the last coupla days, I have applied a somewhat exaggerated and purposeful angular draw into my way of drawing with the 15# stick bow. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Currently, I feel strong, and feel like I can return to my proper 36# target recurve. It is my anxiety and terror and belief that my shoulder can not, in fact, take the load, even now, two years later, which makes sure I shall not enter into such folly. Although I constantly think about the angular draw now, and watch for it on TH-cam's "Archery TV" matchplay, somehow I suspect that I always applied an unconscious level of small-scale angular draw throughout my whole archery life. Looking back, it just seems natural that I may have had been doing it all along.
I was given an Inno Max with Ex Power limbs at 32# for Xmas. After training for a while my coach and I decided it would be wise to get SF 26# limbs while perfecting my form. Then I can build back up to 32# (I find the Bow Trainer helpful in building upper body strength).
Hi Ive been shooting olympic recurve for about a little over a month now and have found your videos exstremely helpfull i was wondering if you could go show me proper plunger placement and tension in a more detailed fashion but thank you for the videos they have been very helpfull . how long have you been sh ootinng olympic recurve?
One thing about getting older is the body is less resilient. I quit smoking about 9 months ago, so decided to start doing daily exercise on my rowing ergometer - so I am fit. A few weeks ago I pulled out my bow (an old 50lb compound), and started shooting about 30 or 40 arrows a day. Sure enough, within a week I came down with tendonitis in my right inside forearm at the inside elbow. Tendonitis stops ALL exercise cold. The tendons will not heal otherwise. Sucks getting old.
Another good vid mate, top stuff. I'm just getting into archery and went the cheaper Apex option (Storm 320 compound). I'm a 31" Draw (maybe 32") and I asked for the max 31" draw and opted for 50lbs instead of the max 75lbs. After my 3rd test fire I was knackered so wound the pounds down a turn, a few more shots and wind downs later I found myself sitting at I guess around 20-30pounds. Fortunately I had the option to do so. :) I'm assuming you're not big on compound bows but if you have one would you mind doing a video on sighting one in? I like your videos because you're thorough and don't skip over the fiddly bits. Jokes aren't bad either. Cheers.
A lot of great information in your videos, especially for beginner archers such as myself. Off topic from this particular video, just happened to be the most recent vidoe I found...In my research, I am finding different information regarding the actual length of the bow itself reletive to the height of the individual. This different information has left me a little confused on the do's, and don'ts, and if any of them hold weight. Do you think it would be possible for you to post a video on the subject?
This is exactly why I have both recurve and compound bows. I shoot my recurves until my muscles get tired and/or sore, then I shoot my compound. Works a champ. ;-)
My dads friends friend was a archer and he used a recurve at 20 lbs then his tried his friends compound and tore his shoulder muscles! had to be in hospital for a few days! Thats a nice story to stop people from using bows that are too strong!
the best thing I had for the last year as a beginner was a bow rental scheme (UK based) where I can swap the limbs out for higher draw-weight as I needed to, and this also saved me from buying the bow until now :)
Lisa Williams hi I'm from the UK too, England to be more specific. I was wondering where this rental scheme is or what it's called is it a franchise of stores that can be found in every city?
Great video. Im a new archer. I bought a 45lbs samak sage. My groups have shrunk over the last 3 months, but I wasnt satisfide with my progress. I decided to be honest with my self about draw weight. I deciced to hold at full draw for a complete 5 seconds before my release. I couldnt even hit the bag! To much weight! I dont have the money for new limbs and arrows tuned for them. Heres my plan. Once my groups come back to normal with a 5 second pause, ill move to 10 seconds. Ill keep moving up in 5 second increments till I can hold my form for 30 seconds inbetween shots with out adverse affects to my accuracy. What do you think? Also, I noticed that when I started this 5 second pause thing all my misses were high, way high. Any reason for this? I love your videos and I would really value your imput.
I am new and just bought a 40 pound samick. I can hold it for about 15 seconds before it's too much. I understand I will have difficulty adapting but I don't think it's too bad. I have not even shot an arrow yet, I am first training to handle the weight with form. I am not big but I am not noodle arms either. I think I can get used to it fairly quickly with the right training. The problem is that I could not afford a second bow and my ego is also a factor. I am thinking, however, to try and find a cheap enough horse bow with a low weight for my wife. We do actually have a ~30 pound longbow which might help with strength and form transition but it shoots like crap because it's an out of tune fold up with wobbly limbs
I'm finding your videos very informative thanks! I have a question regarding injuries and prevention. I purchased a 28 pound recurve now yesterday and took it to the range where I spent over 2 hours practising as I'm new to archery. I used a glove to protect my fingers but noticed afterwards my fingers had become numb. 24 hours later and I'm still experiencing the numbness in the end of my middle finger. After some research I've read it could be nerve damage. Any tips on how to prevent this? And is it possible to use a wrist release on a recurve until my fingers recover. Thanks in advance. +1 subscriber keep up the good work!
+Liam Treharne I will answer to you. Forget about using a mechanical release unless you get real injuries which is not your case. I personally had the same problem so I can tell you something. I experienced the same thing on one finger tip after 3 weeks I was using a 50# traditional bow. The only thing you can do is: 1- check if you pull the string in the right way placing in the right place the string. 2- Add leather layers to you tab/glove. For example, I took those woolly things you put on furnishings to avoid the doors to ruin them (i'm not eng native so I try exmplaining as I can xD) and put them inside my glove. The numbness could endure some days and even 2/3 weeks but in the end it will pass Have good arrows (as we say) :D
+Liam Treharne Also take in account that starting from zero your fingers are not used to keep that weight. Let them some time and try then keeping your fingers trained so you'll keep callus which is good. I stopped archery for 2 mnths because I was really busy and away from home, then I restarted using my 64 pounds traditional. The result has been devasting for my ring finger which was not prepared anymore to carry that kind of weight. My thinner blood vessels broke and I couldn't shoot for some weeks. So my tips: 1- train often, even just pulling back your string without shooting. 2- do thing gradually :)
+Gary Weiss Hello, thanks for taking the time to answer my question! After 2-3 weeks without shooting and purchasing a thicker tab to use the feeling started to return in my finger and now it is back to normal. I just avoid spending too many hours shooting arrows haha. Thanks again Gary!
Rhomboids contract to pull the scapular towards the spine as when you lock in .two muscles.major and minor I think on both sides.between medial edge of scapula and spine..pain may be from supraspinatus tendon or subscapular tendon.may be other muscles tendons bursae .. good advice.dont over bow so you can use good form.. learn a lot from your videos nu sensei
i bought a 30lb bow, its light, but not super heavy, it does get to me after a bit but not bad, i figure that was a good starting point, i enjoy shooting it but i dont have a target anymore
Thanks so much for this video! I started on my birthday last Sunday and jumped straight in with classes and shot almost everyday. I went to work and then exactly 1 week after starting my bow shoulder has this sharp pain when I try to go into shooting form, without a bow in hand. I used so many different bows, club bows, and I definitely know my shoulder wasn’t always relaxed and I was pushing. Now I just have to rest and when I go back lessen the weight, keep my bow shoulder relaxed, and I should be fine. Right?
Aren't you mixing the rhomboids with latissimus dorsi and teres major ? (Rhomboids are between the medial edge of the scapulae and the spinal vertebrae).
Sensei, being 6'1" and weighing 195 and a beginner, it's hard on my ego to accept having a 22lbs draw weight. Thanks, you just explained very clearly why the salesman insisted on this draw weight. I thought he was preparing his next sale.
+NUSensei what would be an average draw length when you're about 5"7 - 5"8? I'm not super sure what my draw length is and I'm not sure how to measure it either
Thanks for the great video.. I was starting archery for about 3 month ago.. I followed many instructions from you videos and thanks for those.. In this last month, I shoot about 100 to 150 time for 3-4 days/week, and I started feel pain at my Deltoid Muscle, so I decide to take rest for a while.. Regarding to this issue, is it normal for beginner? or something wrong with my drawn? Thanks Lot
Another archer on youtube (Jake Kaminski) doesn't recommend doing this kind of draw technique as it might cause injury. Did you change your technique since 2015 at all @NUSensei?
20lb is enough for any beginning adult. People forget: they are learning form vs trying to fight a "manly" or macho pound bows. I have a set of 18lb limbs for indoor bedroom "range". I use 28lb outdoor. I have a set of 38lb limbs and a 50lb bow (garage sales) I shoot +6 shots from time to time just to stress the muscles a tiny bit.
The tip of my middle finger has been numb for a few hours after about 100 arrows with my #45 recurve that I’m comfortable with.. think It’s a problem with my draw ( I do 3 under), my cheap shooting glove, or both? Thanks as always you’re awesome.
Are you hooking the string inside your knuckle when you draw? It's easy to do if you're not paying attention, especially as a subconscious compensation for weak fingertips. The inside of your bent knuckle does not have much tissue to pad the weight of the string. This can pinch blood vessels and deprive your fingertip of full circulation, leading to numbness. Try to draw with the string on the pads of your fingertips ahead of the knuckle.
Thanks, I have never thought of it as drawing, then a transfer to the rhomboids to hold, although I am familiar with the concept of back tension. I will try to focus on this and see how it goes. I am a trad shooter, and I think that when you choose that path, in some clubs they kind of give up on you and stop trying to teach you good form. At 2:20 I think you are indicating your lats, no? Rhomboids are between your shoulder blades as you mentioned earlier. Do the lats come into play to pull the shoulder down?
Iron Pirate Lats do come into play. I'm indicating a vague area because I can't quite see what I'm pointing at -.- The "transfer" is one of the subtle elements that self-trained archers miss. The part to really look at is the movement of the scapula of the drawing side. Look up form photos featuring archers from the back point of view to see the correct engagement.
NUSensei Ok, thanks. Regarding being over - bowed, I have two bows, both #45@28. One I am comfortable with, the other is a bit heavy and I don't like shooting it for long. I guess I should put them on a scale..
I was going to mention that he slapped his lats when he said rhomboids, but they are admittedly difficult to touch from that position and you use both so it didn't seem worth mentioning.
CrimsonKumiho Well, now you mentioned it anyway. You can touch them pretty easily by going over your head. I'm not too familiar with this method of anchoring, so I wanted to be sure I understood which muscles I should be using for the transfer part. It wasn't my intention to just be pedantic.
Iron Pirate Obviously. And since we're being "unintentionally" pedantic... Even going over your head they can be difficult to touch really, or at least uncomfortable as it's an unnatural position for your shoulder. It's near the spine and behind the posterior deltoid. Regardless, you're using them all in a compound movement. Technically the shoulder and traps and lats are all primary movers. Lats being the largest muscle back there attached to the humerus and hip, it would make sense why he slapped them when referencing the strain. It's the easiest to discern.
In Brazil, you would have to take your skin off to be indecent. The thing I missed the most from Brazil when I moved to Brazil was being shirtless in public.
Hey Sensei, What do you think a safe draw weight would be to use consistently though till about 60 years of age if you maintain your practice weekly? :o 40-45lb seems to be the consensus that ive seen around, most archers i know who are 45-60 of age doing recurve for a hobby are using 38-45lb limbs and Korean archers think between 40-45 is a sweet spot for consistency What would be your take on this? If i remember correctly, you were using 40lb limbs aswell :o
Hey, I had a question. I've been shooting my recurve for a few weeks, this afternoon was my longest shooting session by far though. My hand is a bit raw in the spot on the side of my hand, right in line where the fletching passes over the hand, along the line of the thumb and the finger of the bow hand. Is there a way to avoid this besides having to use a glove on both hands?
I have scar on the middle knuckle of my left index from my first experience with a heavy draw bow, I was about 12 (I'm almost 25 now) and I remember loosing the arrow and what felt like a line of fire across my finger lol, those 'feathers' leave one hell of a paper cut
Hi NUSensei, can you tell me what's the name of that exercise accessory you were using from min 7? I'm using a simple stretching tape, but I have been looking for something like this, however I couldn't find it. I was trying on eBay, but couldn't find, probably because i didn't tried the right search words. So if you could tell me how it is called and what to search it would be great... Thanks!
Just wanted to mention the muscle group you referred to at 2:20 is not your rhomboids. You are touching your latissimus dorsi. The minor and major rhomboids are located more proximal and superior to the latissimus dorsi. Essentially your upper back close to the spine which is not where you are placing your hand in the video. Great video though on what to look out for as far as injury is related to the sport.
There is a fairly famous TH-camr from the US , Tex Grubner (TGO), who shot himself in the leg with a pistol while drawing from a holster. He posted a video of the incident of his negligent discharge. He was out of shape at the time. He is now buff and posts his recurve hunting videos. He draws 100lbs. I guess the good thing is he will probably not shoot himself again, but I wonder how well his elbow and shoulder will do.
Rob Smith To some extent I have respect for him. How many of us are willing to show our major screwups? And he really puts out some quality videos. On the other hand he made a video of how to tactically respond to a bear from the supine position. I shit you not. I use the term "hunting videos" loosely as he never kills anything except channel cat.
Bow hand shoulder popping up is what I assume you mean, as that's a very common form mistake, and that's almost invariably due to too much poundage. Lighter draw weight bow is the solution. That's essentially an inability to transfer the weight to the back muscles, causing collapse of the shoulders inward due too too much pull in that direction while drawing / holding.
I hope that I didn't get a bow with too much pull weight because it is a 50 pound pull weight and I am 5 foot, 10 inches tall. My bow is primarily for training since I don't hunt and we don't have a bow club in the area. I didn't want to go over the 50 pound limit due to my height and weight.
Your height and weight have nothing to do with the weight you should get. This is entirely based on your strength and, most importantly, your experience.
I am new to using the bow and the one I have is a regular re-curved bow and still learning how to use mine. Thanks so much and I love your videos so much.
well I started with 80 pounds and had a little pain in the schoulders, but that was mainly the immobility in the ankered position.I shot 80 for a month and after that I knew my bow very well, it was normals.few weeks ago I ordered 90lbs and 80 is so easy to pull and to let down.I would say, you have to have a perfekt feeling for your body.
recently just started and I'm finding my bow-holding hand's webbing section (between thumb and index) is sore cause the pit of the grip digs into it with each draw. Is this just lack of conditioning or am I just holding it wrong? I have been making sure the side of my palm presses on the pressure plate of the grip
Maybe anyone has some advice for me. I‘m into archery since only about three months now. I shot a barebow with a olympic style riser, 30 lbs drawweight. I shoot this bow with a tab and three under. Now i bought a hunting recurve bow (barepaw penthalon shadow) with 35 lbs limbs with a glove in split fingers. Everytime my right (drawhand) ringfinger is sore and kinda deaf for a couple of days. Is it the way i draw or is it the gloves i should change? The gloves fingertips are not leather more if a rugged textile (but archery gloves) and i only have that problem in the tip of the ringfinger. Probably i try to shoot it with the tabs and see if i have the same problem. Maybe that‘s normal until the finger gets used to it? I appreciate any advice
Can someone explain what full draw is cause if it’s being able to draw the string all the way back I got a 60ibs pound and I can draw the string all the way back but I’m new so I would like to know if I’m overbowing
This is target archery-if you shoot the style Howard Hill made popular (which is a superior technique for hunting/war bow) you pull to draw as you lift the bow and by the time you are full draw you are on your target, as far as overbowing most archers are pussies today-you don't learn to draw a stiff bow overnight, it takes years to develop the muscles, and they must be maintained throughout life
Hi NUSensei. I have been researching on how to cure an archer's elbow. Do you have any recommendation to it? I enjoy archery so much but the pain comes with it feels so hard...
I sometimes feel a strain on the joint opposite from my elbow on my bow hand (the outer part of the arm), usually around 90 arrows shot, am I doing something wrong or is this normal? I have been shooting 30 pound for about 6 months now.
Hi Sensei, I've been enjoying all of your videos immensely and I have a question that I wanted to ask you. I would like to target shoot with the intention of learning how to hunt with the bow. I have been looking at the Hoyt Buffalo Recurve Bow www.bestrecurvebowguide.com/hoyt-buffalo-bow-review-recurve-details/ I am 210 llbs, I have a 73 inch arm length and I am 6'0 ft tall. The bow comes in 45, 50, and 55 draw length and is 60" in length but is a take down bow, so it is my understanding that I can buy components to use all three weights. My question is, at my wingspand is 45 too little? Or is it possibly too much even for a beginning archer? Based off of what you said, I have this question: Is my draw length going to make the 45 lbs at 60' length easy enough to learn with? Or should I go with a lower weight and/or longer length? I know you said start with a low weight but you also alluded that a smaller length makes the draw easier. I was also looking at the Martin Saber Recurve Bow www.bestrecurvebowguide.com/martin-saber-review-recurve-bow-inspection/ Longer length at 64 inches and the draw weight starts at 30 lbs at the lowest. My only concerns are 1: long bow is clumsier in the field yet I know would be probably more accurate when learning on a target. 2: 30 pounds is not enough to hunt with. Less weight means less options for hunting although I understand it is easier to aim with a smaller weight. Thanks for your help!
Regarding length, a longer bow will be more comfortable for you to draw, as you will encounter less stacking. However, as you have mentioned, a longer bow will also be less practical in the field. You can safely use a shorter bow if you can manage the stacking effect. Regarding draw weight, 45# is way too high for a beginner. Note that at your draw length, a 45# bow will be closer to 50# on the fingers. This is a fine hunting poundage, but generally is an inadvisable learning weight. If you can't get weaker limbs, I would suggest starting off with a cheaper, low-poundage bow and then graduating to your hunting bow. You may not be keen on buying a second bow, but just from a coaching point of view, 45# is too high and will break many new archers.
Thank you for your quick response. I cannot seem to find any decent recurves over 64 inches, do you have any suggestions or can you direct me to site that reviews bows? Also, what is "stacking?"
Stacking is when the string is pulled past the optimal draw-force curve and it takes a lot more force to draw further back. The result is that the bow will suddenly feel stiff when you reach a certain point. This is one of the difficulties faced by a tall person shooting a short bow.
it never happened to me before. my wrist hurt when i draw, i'm not sure whether its my shooting form or is that a common problem in archery? i shot 20lb samick sage
![[DRIP] ‘CLIK CLAK’ PREVIEW](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bcxkcOSbpac/mqdefault.jpg)
dude.. you have so many ties
That's the fun part of being a teacher. A new tie every day!
That Guy Nick yeah thighs =)
How does this...tie into the video:)
He got A life...no gamer!
Different tie for every occasion, event and function.
Dear NuSensei,
Thank you for your tip on injury pain on the bow shoulder because I had the biggest pain in my bow shoulder a sharp feeling like you mentioned.
After you demonstrated proper form for the bow shoulder the pain was GONE! make a long story short I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart because you saved my ability to do archery.
Thank you !
the shoulder pain happened to me too during a competition. :(
Search for sport injury rehab methods, especially in weight/resistance fitness. Plenty of people get injured wrists, elbows, shoulders in gyms etc.
Great advice! A father and son came to the range with brand new archery equipment. The father was attempting to draw his 45# bow and his 14 y.o. son had a 25# bow. It was sad to see them struggle draw those bows, with contorted, scrunched up bodies, and wild shots completely missing the 10 yard hay bail almost every time and unable to even get close to a proper anchor. They were frustrated and were not having fun. I never saw them again -- very sad.
People boast too much about their draw weight. normally a teen should start on 14-24 pounds and a starting adult should start on 18-32 pounds. It doesn't matter if you can draw a 60lb bow 10 times. You should be able to draw your bow hundreads of times with consistent form and with no pain at all.
mcsimeon thefin I started shooting a 30 pound fiberglass longbow a few years ago. Not the best thing when being younger. I just watched jeff Kavanaugh videos to correct form and I also built my muscles up. I feel most comfortable shooting 35 pounds now. But my brothers 45 pound bow is fun from time to time.
+Hayden NG My 8yr old daughter has 12lb limbs for her 48in recurve but due to her short draw length shes pulling about 8lbs on the fingers.
14? Never met anyone that uses 14.
Have you ever thought of seeking treatment for your necktie issues?
Very helpful. A lot of blokes need to button down the ego! I'm coming back to archery after a bad motocross induced shoulder injury and a three year layoff. My 60lb compound lies in its case, my 50lb Bear rests unstrung and my 42lb GMX looks good on the mantlepiece. But I've dusted down the kids' 18/22lb bows and set up the 18m range... Loving it! Never be too proud! I hope to use my old bows in maybe a year and aim to get back to my old 200 arrows a day. But for now, 25 arrows at 18lbs is what I can do safely, but I'm stoked to be back shooting. Shame my daughter's bow is pink!
Answered my question before I asked it. Apparently I was taught improper form in my teenage years. Mind you, I haven’t picked up a bow in at least a decade...but in recent years I’ve began developing an interest in making things for myself and my family, including bows.
You’ve got awesome and informative videos and I can’t wait to finish the entire series!
I have a previous shoulder (right) and back and injury from being hit by a vehicle... using the bow as an exercise tool as well as a hobby works great
Poundage is not important. I'm someone who as a child/young teenager was part of a swim club for 8 years and then before I started archery spent another year swimming 3 times a week. I had pretty strong and developped back muscles thanks to this. Disregarding that I started with a club bow for my first month which was 26# and before I went for a rental to see if archery was for me I tested out other peoples bows who had a higher poundage and while I could handle 40# I felt it put too much stress on me and made me lose form.
There is no shame in making that call. In the end I went for a 35# rental since it was the only one left in shop and shot that for 3 months before finally buying my own bow and now being comfortable with 40#. After that I spent another 6 months before now finally going up to 45# where I'll probably stay at as I like switching between my 40# on my off days and my 45# on other days.
Poundage is not important, it doesn't equal anything really. Proper and consistent form and training is what makes you a good archer. One of the best archers in our club swears by his 35# Martin and he feels good with it. If you're at a club don't be afraid to ask if you can shoot other people's bows. If they agree it'll give you a great insight into what you can or cannot handle and believe me, the ones who are like me love nothing else than seeing someone enjoy the bow that they themselves shoot with.
This is SO super helpful, thank you!! This helped me nail (or, at least, work on nailing) how to use my back muscles correctly. Really can't tell you how much I appreciate your videos. As someone who can't afford coaching I just am so glad to have found your work.
Thank you for the video. I have heard a lot about cause of draw shoulder injury but this is the first time I see potential cause of bow shoulder injury. Very insightful. Thanks
thanks so much for these videos, they're immensely helpful for someone trying to get into archery like me
Thank's NUsensei, you've helped me be able to identify the fault in my technique which is causing my draw arm's shoulder to be in pain. Thankfully I have caught it early on so I will be able to prevent any further injury.
The muscle you touched is the Latissimus Dorsi. The rhomboids are more proximal and higher.
Thank you for your videos. I started archery approx a month ago, and I borrowed a 40 pound off of a friend. Next to shooting everyday I have a hard physical job, and even next to that Im a small dude, computer nerd and lazy. I went out to buy a bow myself, and was looking for 30 pound limbs, however. Because I had been using my friends bow, the damage was done. Im now down with a pulled muscel in the shoulder, and i wasent even going Macho. Injurys are serious, and people need to be aware of the risks. Thank you, Sir.
Sharp pain in my bow holding shoulder brought me here. I'm new was hoping I would get used to the movements and get better. Now I'm thinking my form is part of the problem.
thank you for ALL your videos, so informative and so helpful - you answer all the questions that people don't like to ask for fear of looking stupid
I watched this with my class mate that has no knowledge on archery and she said “why didn’t he just shot the bow nothings gonna happen” then i said “you cant the bow will break,it’s called “dry firing” and she said “dry firing?theres no water” *slaps my face*
Huh. "Sources indicate that "dry" originates from exhibitions by late-19th-century fire departments in the United States, where drills (runs) were conducted for public viewing without the use of water (dry)." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_fire#Etymology
Don't expect her to know, teach her instead :)
I’ve been using the clicker for a couple weeks and I started with pain in my bow arm a few days ago, specially sore after training. Today your video showed up in the TH-cam recommend videos for me ;) It is a very helpful for a better understanding about the possible cause of my problem. You have answers for all my questions and doubts about archery. Thank you
Thanks heaps for this!
I'm 17 and have been making bows from scratch and shooting them at home for ten years and I've never had problems until now! A few weeks ago I finished an ash longbow at 50-55#. I can just about pull that weight comfortably now, but the tension and pain in my neck and shouders I can now confedently attribute to my arrow lenghth. The last batch of arrows I made are simply way to short, as they were split from a log measuring around half a meter! They are pretty, but problematic, as there is simply no way I can get to full draw and the locking position with the lower back muscles; hence the shoulder pain!
Thanks again, I will either make some longer arrows or wait till I can buy some store-boughts (as much as I hate them!)
Just had a recent chat with a youngster about 'front shoulder pain' on one of your more current vids, and lo, here's an old vid about injury.
Funny how different physiologies react differently to the same movement. High draw technique caused me shoulder issues both front and rear. On the other hand, a rotational draw with the forearm following the arrow plane alleviated rear shoulder pain, engaged back muscles more efficiently and aided in setting the front shoulder correctly. It also provides me with a much more stable path to a consistent anchor.
The archers (I know) who 'high draw' all shoot low poundage target recurve. Stick a higher poundage (>40 lbs) trad bow(62" and>) in their hand for an extended period and soon enough the dramatic 'high draw' flourish and low anchor make way for a rotational draw with a higher anchor. And yet the fundamentals are still the same.
Great vid.
Ps search 'Arne Moe'
He is Yoda
my "favorite" archery injury i have had is a rather large cut from when the bottom limb of my bow snapped and got launched into my arm. that is when i started to check the limbs on my bows before and after every shooting session.
Man I love your videos. This was very helpful in helping understanding the correct way to draw the bow.
Love the tabletop shirt. Oh, and your videos have been massively helpful also I guess =]. I actually couldn't find a 40 lb bow in my area, so I started with a Samick Sage 45 lb. The place I bought the bow at was super helpful and made sure that I was drawing properly and all that. It's nice having a place nearby with people who actually care.
thank you for the info, but I have to say, I absolutely adore that light grey neck tie on the rack as well.
woooohoooo that was a hell of a man show buddy. TAKE IT OFF TAKE IT OFF TAKE IT OFF
Hey, thanks. I've recently started archery and I will keep an eye out for my stance errors.
Wil Wheaton is probably happy you helped contribute to season 3 :) I take it you enjoy his shows as I do as well :)
I totally agree about learning on a lower powered bow and establishing good form and technique. This is true for almost any sport where equipment is involved.
In music though, getting that expensive guitar you intend to keep forever to learn on can be helpful because their play-ability is often better than a cheap newbie guitar where you have to press harder and it hurts your fingers more.
In both situations, the equipment doesn't make you better, but learning how to use them properly and consistent practice does. But of course, you already know this :)
New archer here! I have to thank you once again Sensei. I've begun to feel pain in the draw shoulder after training...and got worried.
I suspected it was my form or the heavier poundage that i got on the new bow. Turns out it was probably both. And even If I knew the correct draw movement (I had a pretty good score with my barebow months ago), somehow I subconsciously relapsed to the wrong movement at 6:55
Dude, I think you just helped me save my rotator cuff. I make my own bows but have little way to test draw weight. My bows shoot great and with lots of power... Too much power. After a few days of shooting my first recurves, I thought my arm would fall off. Not so much the draw as the release... Woof! Talk about "tennis" elbow.
A coupla years back, I was shooting more than 200+ arrows every day. My only other physical activity was daily walking. I believe this potentially led to my suffering rotator cuff tendinitis; with symptoms of severe 'clunking' `noises` EACH TIME I lifted my arm in everyday activities, and with drastically reduced arm strength in everyday activities. However, there was hardly any noticeable pain to speak of. With this scary 'clunking' following normal common movement ranges of my String Drawing shoulder, I put a stop to backyard shooting, lest I contribute to `real` and permanent damage. Some weeks later, I again gave shooting a try: but this time, I drastically modified my way for withdrawing an arrow from my hip quiver. (you see, the first I started noticing the onset of 'clunking' in my String Shoulder, was each time I withdrew an arrow from my quiver. It only developed into 'clunking' throughout other more-normal motions later, after I started noticing it here, first) Through modification of arrow withdrawing, I had successfully halted the one-for-one clunk per arrow 'retrieval'. But my shoulder continued to mis-behave when NOT shooting. This is why for most of the last two years, I have voluntarily ceased archery shooting. For just over the last month, I have returned: doing shoulder exercises and shooting from a 15# fibreglass kiddie stick bow; leaving my 'proper' 36# Olympic recurve un-used. Currently, the String shoulder is still of drastically reduced arm strength and can suffer the most debilitating bust of pain anytime it gets bumped accidentally. Not only did I significantly modify the way for retrieving arrows from my hip quiver, but I significantly modified the way I draw the bow. I studied the way J.C. Valladont moved 'his' drawing arm, copied it, but additionally held my bow arm equally low-down; level with my drawing arm. . . . . . . . . . This has had the effect of making my Tricep participate more and my shoulder participate less until I reach full draw: where I anchor and have my back take on most of the load. . . . I am totally pain-free when shooting in this manner. I have no clunking noises either. I have full strength with this direction of motion --- It's the general daily activities where I can [sometimes] cop indignant and most debilitating busts of pain for the high-treason of 'not being on guard'. . . . . . . . Nu Sensei's mention of the rotational angular draw (2018 video) has captured my attention ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Now I have taken it to my soul, too, it seems. To me, it just makes good horse sense ! ! ! Over the last coupla days, I have applied a somewhat exaggerated and purposeful angular draw into my way of drawing with the 15# stick bow. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Currently, I feel strong, and feel like I can return to my proper 36# target recurve. It is my anxiety and terror and belief that my shoulder can not, in fact, take the load, even now, two years later, which makes sure I shall not enter into such folly. Although I constantly think about the angular draw now, and watch for it on TH-cam's "Archery TV" matchplay, somehow I suspect that I always applied an unconscious level of small-scale angular draw throughout my whole archery life. Looking back, it just seems natural that I may have had been doing it all along.
I was given an Inno Max with Ex Power limbs at 32# for Xmas. After training for a while my coach and I decided it would be wise to get SF 26# limbs while perfecting my form. Then I can build back up to 32# (I find the Bow Trainer helpful in building upper body strength).
Hi Ive been shooting olympic recurve for about a little over a month now and have found your videos exstremely helpfull i was wondering if you could go show me proper plunger placement and tension in a more detailed fashion but thank you for the videos they have been very helpfull . how long have you been sh ootinng olympic recurve?
One thing about getting older is the body is less resilient. I quit smoking about 9 months ago, so decided to start doing daily exercise on my rowing ergometer - so I am fit. A few weeks ago I pulled out my bow (an old 50lb compound), and started shooting about 30 or 40 arrows a day. Sure enough, within a week I came down with tendonitis in my right inside forearm at the inside elbow. Tendonitis stops ALL exercise cold. The tendons will not heal otherwise. Sucks getting old.
Another good vid mate, top stuff.
I'm just getting into archery and went the cheaper Apex option (Storm 320 compound).
I'm a 31" Draw (maybe 32") and I asked for the max 31" draw and opted for 50lbs instead of the max 75lbs.
After my 3rd test fire I was knackered so wound the pounds down a turn, a few more shots and wind downs later I found myself sitting at I guess around 20-30pounds.
Fortunately I had the option to do so. :)
I'm assuming you're not big on compound bows but if you have one would you mind doing a video on sighting one in?
I like your videos because you're thorough and don't skip over the fiddly bits. Jokes aren't bad either.
Cheers.
A lot of great information in your videos, especially for beginner archers such as myself. Off topic from this particular video, just happened to be the most recent vidoe I found...In my research, I am finding different information regarding the actual length of the bow itself reletive to the height of the individual. This different information has left me a little confused on the do's, and don'ts, and if any of them hold weight. Do you think it would be possible for you to post a video on the subject?
hi! I enjoy your video's not too difficult to understand, no nonsens ,en sensible.
greetings from Holland .
This is exactly why I have both recurve and compound bows. I shoot my recurves until my muscles get tired and/or sore, then I shoot my compound. Works a champ. ;-)
Damn, you've got a lot of ties.
My dads friends friend was a archer and he used a recurve at 20 lbs then his tried his friends compound and tore his shoulder muscles! had to be in hospital for a few days! Thats a nice story to stop people from using bows that are too strong!
the best thing I had for the last year as a beginner was a bow rental scheme (UK based) where I can swap the limbs out for higher draw-weight as I needed to, and this also saved me from buying the bow until now :)
Lisa Williams hi I'm from the UK too, England to be more specific. I was wondering where this rental scheme is or what it's called is it a franchise of stores that can be found in every city?
Hodan - they're called Stylist Bows :)
Excellent video. You helped me.
very informative, like your vids
Thanks, this saved me some more serious injury!
Great video.
Im a new archer. I bought a 45lbs samak sage. My groups have shrunk over the last 3 months, but I wasnt satisfide with my progress. I decided to be honest with my self about draw weight. I deciced to hold at full draw for a complete 5 seconds before my release. I couldnt even hit the bag!
To much weight! I dont have the money for new limbs and arrows tuned for them.
Heres my plan. Once my groups come back to normal with a 5 second pause, ill move to 10 seconds. Ill keep moving up in 5 second increments till I can hold my form for 30 seconds inbetween shots with out adverse affects to my accuracy.
What do you think?
Also, I noticed that when I started this 5 second pause thing all my misses were high, way high. Any reason for this?
I love your videos and I would really value your imput.
I am new and just bought a 40 pound samick. I can hold it for about 15 seconds before it's too much. I understand I will have difficulty adapting but I don't think it's too bad. I have not even shot an arrow yet, I am first training to handle the weight with form. I am not big but I am not noodle arms either. I think I can get used to it fairly quickly with the right training. The problem is that I could not afford a second bow and my ego is also a factor. I am thinking, however, to try and find a cheap enough horse bow with a low weight for my wife.
We do actually have a ~30 pound longbow which might help with strength and form transition but it shoots like crap because it's an out of tune fold up with wobbly limbs
11:03 One must behave like a good noodle. "I'm a good Noodle! I'm a good Noodle!! Noooo!!!" D;
The NUSensei students are now known as NUudles.
When you Slap your Bow, it Clap’s you Back…!!!👋🤣🤣
I'm finding your videos very informative thanks! I have a question regarding injuries and prevention. I purchased a 28 pound recurve now yesterday and took it to the range where I spent over 2 hours practising as I'm new to archery. I used a glove to protect my fingers but noticed afterwards my fingers had become numb. 24 hours later and I'm still experiencing the numbness in the end of my middle finger. After some research I've read it could be nerve damage. Any tips on how to prevent this? And is it possible to use a wrist release on a recurve until my fingers recover. Thanks in advance. +1 subscriber keep up the good work!
+Liam Treharne I will answer to you.
Forget about using a mechanical release unless you get real injuries which is not your case. I personally had the same problem so I can tell you something. I experienced the same thing on one finger tip after 3 weeks I was using a 50# traditional bow. The only thing you can do is: 1- check if you pull the string in the right way placing in the right place the string. 2- Add leather layers to you tab/glove.
For example, I took those woolly things you put on furnishings to avoid the doors to ruin them (i'm not eng native so I try exmplaining as I can xD) and put them inside my glove.
The numbness could endure some days and even 2/3 weeks but in the end it will pass
Have good arrows (as we say) :D
+Liam Treharne Also take in account that starting from zero your fingers are not used to keep that weight. Let them some time and try then keeping your fingers trained so you'll keep callus which is good.
I stopped archery for 2 mnths because I was really busy and away from home, then I restarted using my 64 pounds traditional. The result has been devasting for my ring finger which was not prepared anymore to carry that kind of weight. My thinner blood vessels broke and I couldn't shoot for some weeks.
So my tips: 1- train often, even just pulling back your string without shooting.
2- do thing gradually :)
+Gary Weiss Hello, thanks for taking the time to answer my question! After 2-3 weeks without shooting and purchasing a thicker tab to use the feeling started to return in my finger and now it is back to normal. I just avoid spending too many hours shooting arrows haha.
Thanks again Gary!
Thanks for sharing this information.
Rhomboids contract to pull the scapular towards the spine as when you lock in .two muscles.major and minor I think on both sides.between medial edge of scapula and spine..pain may be from supraspinatus tendon or subscapular tendon.may be other muscles tendons bursae .. good advice.dont over bow so you can use good form.. learn a lot from your videos nu sensei
i bought a 30lb bow, its light, but not super heavy, it does get to me after a bit but not bad, i figure that was a good starting point, i enjoy shooting it but i dont have a target anymore
Thanks this is very helpful but do you plan on making a rope with all those ties
Like any "sport" stretching, exercise and weight training is advised.
Thanks so much for this video!
I started on my birthday last Sunday and jumped straight in with classes and shot almost everyday.
I went to work and then exactly 1 week after starting my bow shoulder has this sharp pain when I try to go into shooting form, without a bow in hand.
I used so many different bows, club bows, and I definitely know my shoulder wasn’t always relaxed and I was pushing.
Now I just have to rest and when I go back lessen the weight, keep my bow shoulder relaxed, and I should be fine.
Right?
Aren't you mixing the rhomboids with latissimus dorsi and teres major ?
(Rhomboids are between the medial edge of the scapulae and the spinal vertebrae).
that's a lotta ties
Well said. Good lesson.
Sensei, being 6'1" and weighing 195 and a beginner, it's hard on my ego to accept having a 22lbs draw weight. Thanks, you just explained very clearly why the salesman insisted on this draw weight. I thought he was preparing his next sale.
At 6'1", you also have a much longer draw length, and you're drawing closer to 30# with a 22# bow.
+NUSensei what would be an average draw length when you're about 5"7 - 5"8? I'm not super sure what my draw length is and I'm not sure how to measure it either
Excellent👍💪
Thanks NUsensie my shoulder wants to die
Thanks for the great video..
I was starting archery for about 3 month ago..
I followed many instructions from you videos and thanks for those..
In this last month, I shoot about 100 to 150 time for 3-4 days/week, and I started feel pain at my Deltoid Muscle, so I decide to take rest for a while..
Regarding to this issue, is it normal for beginner? or something wrong with my drawn?
Thanks Lot
For the intensity you are training, it's normal. Don't overdo it and allow yourself to rest. You will be better conditioned in time.
Yep..Yep..
Thanks for the suggestion..
I want to thanks you very very much! You really helped me dude :) big up
Very informative Thank you !
Another archer on youtube (Jake Kaminski) doesn't recommend doing this kind of draw technique as it might cause injury. Did you change your technique since 2015 at all @NUSensei?
20lb is enough for any beginning adult. People forget: they are learning form vs trying to fight a "manly" or macho pound bows.
I have a set of 18lb limbs for indoor bedroom "range". I use 28lb outdoor. I have a set of 38lb limbs and a 50lb bow (garage sales) I shoot +6 shots from time to time just to stress the muscles a tiny bit.
exalted video brother thank you!
nice collection of ties
The tip of my middle finger has been numb for a few hours after about 100 arrows with my #45 recurve that I’m comfortable with.. think It’s a problem with my draw ( I do 3 under), my cheap shooting glove, or both? Thanks as always you’re awesome.
Are you hooking the string inside your knuckle when you draw? It's easy to do if you're not paying attention, especially as a subconscious compensation for weak fingertips. The inside of your bent knuckle does not have much tissue to pad the weight of the string. This can pinch blood vessels and deprive your fingertip of full circulation, leading to numbness. Try to draw with the string on the pads of your fingertips ahead of the knuckle.
Thanks, I have never thought of it as drawing, then a transfer to the rhomboids to hold, although I am familiar with the concept of back tension. I will try to focus on this and see how it goes. I am a trad shooter, and I think that when you choose that path, in some clubs they kind of give up on you and stop trying to teach you good form.
At 2:20 I think you are indicating your lats, no? Rhomboids are between your shoulder blades as you mentioned earlier. Do the lats come into play to pull the shoulder down?
Iron Pirate Lats do come into play. I'm indicating a vague area because I can't quite see what I'm pointing at -.- The "transfer" is one of the subtle elements that self-trained archers miss. The part to really look at is the movement of the scapula of the drawing side. Look up form photos featuring archers from the back point of view to see the correct engagement.
NUSensei
Ok, thanks. Regarding being over - bowed, I have two bows, both #45@28. One I am comfortable with, the other is a bit heavy and I don't like shooting it for long. I guess I should put them on a scale..
I was going to mention that he slapped his lats when he said rhomboids, but they are admittedly difficult to touch from that position and you use both so it didn't seem worth mentioning.
CrimsonKumiho
Well, now you mentioned it anyway.
You can touch them pretty easily by going over your head.
I'm not too familiar with this method of anchoring, so I wanted to be sure I understood which muscles I should be using for the transfer part. It wasn't my intention to just be pedantic.
Iron Pirate Obviously.
And since we're being "unintentionally" pedantic...
Even going over your head they can be difficult to touch really, or at least uncomfortable as it's an unnatural position for your shoulder. It's near the spine and behind the posterior deltoid. Regardless, you're using them all in a compound movement. Technically the shoulder and traps and lats are all primary movers. Lats being the largest muscle back there attached to the humerus and hip, it would make sense why he slapped them when referencing the strain. It's the easiest to discern.
as always, wise words!
thanks!
(also, Hippie confirmed ;p )
Many thanks 🙏
In Brazil, you would have to take your skin off to be indecent. The thing I missed the most from Brazil when I moved to Brazil was being shirtless in public.
Cool this is stuff I can use. Thanks
Hey Sensei, What do you think a safe draw weight would be to use consistently though till about 60 years of age if you maintain your practice weekly? :o 40-45lb seems to be the consensus that ive seen around, most archers i know who are 45-60 of age doing recurve for a hobby are using 38-45lb limbs and Korean archers think between 40-45 is a sweet spot for consistency
What would be your take on this? If i remember correctly, you were using 40lb limbs aswell :o
It's all a matter of what you can personally handle.
Hey, I had a question. I've been shooting my recurve for a few weeks, this afternoon was my longest shooting session by far though. My hand is a bit raw in the spot on the side of my hand, right in line where the fletching passes over the hand, along the line of the thumb and the finger of the bow hand. Is there a way to avoid this besides having to use a glove on both hands?
I know I am late but if someone want to know the answer of the same question, here is the answer:
nock your arrow a little bit higher
I have scar on the middle knuckle of my left index from my first experience with a heavy draw bow, I was about 12 (I'm almost 25 now) and I remember loosing the arrow and what felt like a line of fire across my finger lol, those 'feathers' leave one hell of a paper cut
Shot from your hand? That can hurt yeah, unless you have tough skin I suppose. I'd get the same result though lol, luckily I always use an arrow rest
Hi NUSensei, can you tell me what's the name of that exercise accessory you were using from min 7? I'm using a simple stretching tape, but I have been looking for something like this, however I couldn't find it. I was trying on eBay, but couldn't find, probably because i didn't tried the right search words. So if you could tell me how it is called and what to search it would be great... Thanks!
Novica Paunovic That one in particular is the W&W Scapower stretching band.
Just wanted to mention the muscle group you referred to at 2:20 is not your rhomboids. You are touching your latissimus dorsi. The minor and major rhomboids are located more proximal and superior to the latissimus dorsi. Essentially your upper back close to the spine which is not where you are placing your hand in the video. Great video though on what to look out for as far as injury is related to the sport.
SierraNovember3 Yes, this is correct. I couldn't quite get my hands pointing in the right place without seeing what I was doing while explaining.
There is a fairly famous TH-camr from the US , Tex Grubner (TGO), who shot himself in the leg with a pistol while drawing from a holster. He posted a video of the incident of his negligent discharge. He was out of shape at the time. He is now buff and posts his recurve hunting videos. He draws 100lbs. I guess the good thing is he will probably not shoot himself again, but I wonder how well his elbow and shoulder will do.
Yeah I couldn't stomach the cowboy hat either lol
Rob Smith To some extent I have respect for him. How many of us are willing to show our major screwups? And he really puts out some quality videos. On the other hand he made a video of how to tactically respond to a bear from the supine position. I shit you not. I use the term "hunting videos" loosely as he never kills anything except channel cat.
i have a bear firebird. 30-35 draw weight. i am twelve. is it too much?
So this video focuses almost entirely on shoulder injuries. I shoot right handed. What am I doing wrong if I've developed left elbow pain?
Juses that a lot of ties.
By the way thanks for your work,you've helped me a lot
Is there a video that goes in depth on how to set rhomboid and lats muscles and how to stop that drawing hand shoulder popping up?
Bow hand shoulder popping up is what I assume you mean, as that's a very common form mistake, and that's almost invariably due to too much poundage. Lighter draw weight bow is the solution. That's essentially an inability to transfer the weight to the back muscles, causing collapse of the shoulders inward due too too much pull in that direction while drawing / holding.
I hope that I didn't get a bow with too much pull weight because it is a 50 pound pull weight and I am 5 foot, 10 inches tall. My bow is primarily for training since I don't hunt and we don't have a bow club in the area. I didn't want to go over the 50 pound limit due to my height and weight.
Your height and weight have nothing to do with the weight you should get. This is entirely based on your strength and, most importantly, your experience.
I am new to using the bow and the one I have is a regular re-curved bow and still learning how to use mine. Thanks so much and I love your videos so much.
well I started with 80 pounds and had a little pain in the schoulders, but that was mainly the immobility in the ankered position.I shot 80 for a month and after that I knew my bow very well, it was normals.few weeks ago I ordered 90lbs and 80 is so easy to pull and to let down.I would say, you have to have a perfekt feeling for your body.
thanks for the video, can you please suggest a practical recurve bow that can buy online? thank you
A practical recurve bow? Nearly every recurve bow you buy online is practical.
I got a pretty big bruise on my draw arm from overshooting. Not really any pain though. Strange.
recently just started and I'm finding my bow-holding hand's webbing section (between thumb and index) is sore cause the pit of the grip digs into it with each draw. Is this just lack of conditioning or am I just holding it wrong? I have been making sure the side of my palm presses on the pressure plate of the grip
Maybe anyone has some advice for me. I‘m into archery since only about three months now. I shot a barebow with a olympic style riser, 30 lbs drawweight. I shoot this bow with a tab and three under. Now i bought a hunting recurve bow (barepaw penthalon shadow) with 35 lbs limbs with a glove in split fingers. Everytime my right (drawhand) ringfinger is sore and kinda deaf for a couple of days. Is it the way i draw or is it the gloves i should change? The gloves fingertips are not leather more if a rugged textile (but archery gloves) and i only have that problem in the tip of the ringfinger. Probably i try to shoot it with the tabs and see if i have the same problem.
Maybe that‘s normal until the finger gets used to it?
I appreciate any advice
Can someone explain what full draw is cause if it’s being able to draw the string all the way back I got a 60ibs pound and I can draw the string all the way back but I’m new so I would like to know if I’m overbowing
Rhomboid in my bow arm. Upper back along the shoulder blade. :/
This is target archery-if you shoot the style Howard Hill made popular (which is a superior technique for hunting/war bow) you pull to draw as you lift the bow and by the time you are full draw you are on your target,
as far as overbowing most archers are pussies today-you don't learn to draw a stiff bow overnight, it takes years to develop the muscles, and they must be maintained throughout life
Hi NUSensei. I have been researching on how to cure an archer's elbow. Do you have any recommendation to it? I enjoy archery so much but the pain comes with it feels so hard...
While I know about the condition, I actually don't know much about treating it.
I sometimes feel a strain on the joint opposite from my elbow on my bow hand (the outer part of the arm), usually around 90 arrows shot, am I doing something wrong or is this normal? I have been shooting 30 pound for about 6 months now.
In your experience as an instructor, have you come across bow hand injuries caused by arrows breaking mid-shot?
No.
Hi Sensei,
I've been enjoying all of your videos immensely and I have a question that I wanted to ask you.
I would like to target shoot with the intention of learning how to hunt with the bow.
I have been looking at the Hoyt Buffalo Recurve Bow
www.bestrecurvebowguide.com/hoyt-buffalo-bow-review-recurve-details/
I am 210 llbs, I have a 73 inch arm length and I am 6'0 ft tall. The bow comes in 45, 50, and 55 draw length and is 60" in length but is a take down bow, so it is my understanding that I can buy components to use all three weights.
My question is, at my wingspand is 45 too little? Or is it possibly too much even for a beginning archer?
Based off of what you said, I have this question: Is my draw length going to make the 45 lbs at 60' length easy enough to learn with? Or should I go with a lower weight and/or longer length?
I know you said start with a low weight but you also alluded that a smaller length makes the draw easier.
I was also looking at the Martin Saber Recurve Bow
www.bestrecurvebowguide.com/martin-saber-review-recurve-bow-inspection/
Longer length at 64 inches and the draw weight starts at 30 lbs at the lowest. My only concerns are 1: long bow is clumsier in the field yet I know would be probably more accurate when learning on a target.
2: 30 pounds is not enough to hunt with. Less weight means less options for hunting although I understand it is easier to aim with a smaller weight.
Thanks for your help!
Regarding length, a longer bow will be more comfortable for you to draw, as you will encounter less stacking. However, as you have mentioned, a longer bow will also be less practical in the field. You can safely use a shorter bow if you can manage the stacking effect.
Regarding draw weight, 45# is way too high for a beginner. Note that at your draw length, a 45# bow will be closer to 50# on the fingers. This is a fine hunting poundage, but generally is an inadvisable learning weight. If you can't get weaker limbs, I would suggest starting off with a cheaper, low-poundage bow and then graduating to your hunting bow. You may not be keen on buying a second bow, but just from a coaching point of view, 45# is too high and will break many new archers.
Thank you for your quick response. I cannot seem to find any decent recurves over 64 inches, do you have any suggestions or can you direct me to site that reviews bows?
Also, what is "stacking?"
Stacking is when the string is pulled past the optimal draw-force curve and it takes a lot more force to draw further back. The result is that the bow will suddenly feel stiff when you reach a certain point. This is one of the difficulties faced by a tall person shooting a short bow.
Thanks! You have extrememly informative videos, I think I have watched almost all of them at this point!
Compound bow companies make bows that go from 7 lb to 70 lb . Why don't recurve bow companies do the same thing
it never happened to me before. my wrist hurt when i draw, i'm not sure whether its my shooting form or is that a common problem in archery?
i shot 20lb samick sage
Andre Nathan The wrist typically should not be hurting. This can be a problem if you spend a lot of time at a keyboard, however.
Your tie stand appears to be constructed of recurve limbs! Only, they are strung with neckties rather than bowstring!