“I have survived to middle age with half my wits while thousands have died with all of theirs intact. Evidently quality of wits is more important than quantity!" I Claudius
I think you're right. Little Carmine had the ego to avoid the leadership, while Tony tried it but realized that Junior was the wrong guy and couldn't help but take the reigns. Tony's fate was sealed when he became boss. Carmein avoided that fate but also had credibility to have power while avoiding becoming a target. With the whackos like Phil and Rusty out of the way and Jersey neutered he could take the reigns without becoming a target. He was able to do a Michael Corleone without lifting a finger. Kudos to him.
Tonys fate became sealed when he hitched his horse to Christopher then to Paulie then finally Bobby. Bobby was a good underboss but by the time he stepped in it was too late.
Tony was boss in fact before he was boss in name. I don't think Tony ever trusted Junior's leadership, he put him in power to take the fall and keep himself insulated.
@@marcuslosgreat4225 Christopher did the most things for Tony and was tasked with the most important jobs and he always came through. I suggest you watch it again.
Little Carmines character was straight out of the book 48 laws of power. He made himself look dumb and weak because that’s what he wanted his opponents to view him as. When in reality he may have been a genius if this theory is true. The fact that he was able to interpret the dream in a way Tony or someone like Phil couldn’t proves he was much smarter than them. This is my new favorite sopranos theory.
@@bassbole classic man just started my 977th rewatch after seeing this video. Starting from season 3 this time I like starting back from random points gives better perspective
His ineptness was a front that caused ppl to excuse his so called verbal mistakes but in reality they weren't mistakes cuz he couldn't out gun johnny sac or leatardo for boss so he strategically pit them against tony to eliminate his enemies that way.
I've always said Little Carmine wasn't as dumb as everyone thought. He kind of showed how it on the golf course with his dad. I mean he did survive the whole thing lol
Carmine jr reminds me of Jean Perron, the former coach of the montreal canadians and was later traded to the quebec nordiques, the only coach in nhl history tonbe traded. He was famous for his malaproprosisms, still made a brilliant career
Lil Carmine was the *ONLY* character in the game who not only didn't end up in prison or dead But also managed to get everything he wanted out of the life and then retire. Lil Carmine may not have been book smart but he is the very definition of what a genius should be
I agree. Carmine didn't have what people consider traditional intelligence, but his emotional intelligence ended up being through the roof towards the end
"Whatever happened there" the line that sparked the war lol....yea it's really reaching to say he's a genius. It actually makes sense he would say the line about Billy because it was a source of tension at the times
Carmine wasn't respected, but what does a Rose care for the compliments from dung? like if you were insulted by a drunken bum on your way to your 6 figure salary job, would you even stop to look at said bum? "I don't want to be the richest widow in Long Island" means: 1. I love you and I want you to live (Something that Tony isn't too sure about seeing how Carmella acted). 2. He's saying: I am richer than all of you without having to worry about being killed or worry about feds. Tony got so burned he didn't even realize it.
Regardless always felt that he was smarter than what he let on and I also feel like if you wasn't the richest he was one of the richest at the end of the show and also the most legitimate
I think he got smarter following his wife council. He using 5he divide and conquer approach when he saw the gap. That's smart! Some people are not leaders but hear and apply counsel and find success after.
Well, even though he was a little duh, especially in his thesaurus-choosing speechification (I have that word patented), during his little talk about his wife and about him standing back and living was very smart. Having said that, I love the actor (he had a bit char on Mad Men as well) though, he played him just right.
I've come to the conclusion that his malapropisms might be a mild mental condition similar to dyslexia. It might even be congenital given that Big Carmine also does it ("There's no stigmata against it...")
Hear me out! I think he was very smart and played jersey against New York on purpose. I think he knew he wasn’t cut out for the life in New York but… after hearing carmine sr say how jersey was a glorified crew his whole life he felt like he could run jersey especially with extremely strong ties to New York. New York would have just been too much for him. He was mulling over being a boss at one point and I think he decided to let New York clean house and only then could he uncontestedly take the reigns in jersey. Superior chess player
Carmine has funny Malapropism but so does nearly every character. The same goes for stupidity, only Carmine is generally more funny. His intellect is not tied to his criminal prowess either as this analysis suggests.
Little Carmine is by far the most successful outcome in the show, including all the female characters. He gets to retire, happy. He doesn't need titles. He never gets shot, doesn't have a heart attack, Dementia, stroke, cancer or stressed out. Describing his home life, at the end of his day he has a tub and a dinner with a drink made by a loving wife. None of the others are content with their place in the world, it's never enough. He's one of the 10% who doesn't end up in the can or stretched out at Cuzzorelli's
His family is never in danger, his life is never really threatened. He set himself up with legitimate businesses so he cant be at risk of being indicted. He really did it right, he used his connections to get himself a legal easy life
He was smart, because he took his earnings, rep., etc... and moved far and away from it to start somewhat legitimate businesses. He moving back when his father passed, is very telling. For him NOT to be included in the show that much, is a good thing for any single human being. Not being picked apart by the FBI, shaken down, threatened 24/7, etc... Meatheads were at the forefront of the mafia, having mid-life crisis while performing in the mafia in an era where guys tried to be old-school, and live through that in an era that was proving more and more by the day. To be extremely outdated tactics. There was just too many occasions not to notice how he played a key role in passively pushing people into getting whacked, wars, etc... PEOPLE THAT STOOD IN HIS WAY MIND YOU.. the proposition of him to go out on the streets, with Rusty trying to manipulate him further WAS a 19d move. Him producing a movie of Tony's prodigies' murder fantasy, was the move that was all but the icing on the cake for Tony whacking chrisy. The sit down with Phil and Tony, how he purposely scuffed that to spark Phil's emotions, and inevitably cause the war. All while making it a point that he was 'too stupid' to have possibly been a key figure in any of that.. WHILE LITERALLY BEING THE ONE TO DO IT. He, making one single move that eventually cause Tony B. situation that sparked the downfall of the relationship between NY and Jersey (especially it all being done through him in the shadows) -- mastermind shit. 379d People like to rip on him, and dog on him cause yes he talks like an idiot. "a gallon of gold is worth more then a pint of blood". (which is hilarious, because he is a successful mostly legit guy. But the way he talks is as stupid as a gangster) And because Tony calls him retarded. But the truth about the whole show, is that it IS shot through substantially through the eyes of Tony being the 'good guy' or maybe more like the guy we come to love and route for.. and what Tony says at an eye's glance, even a 2nd, and 3rd watch-through.. it still sticks as such. *We have to dig to see that Tony won't even admit to himself that he's jealous of Ralph's success.* Ralph -- while Tony was being pampered to become boss. Ralph had to drop out of school, and help his mother. instead of being an architect, he joined the mob for an easy quick scape; and absolutely thrived at it to the point he talked shit about Johnny Sac. and Johnny Sac. almost got whacked over it. Yet, being shot through the eyes of Tony.. all Ralph is: a psycho whose a comical idiot. Therefore, viewers who love the show will often take sides with Tony. Even when he's at his most devious end stages. But the truth is, is that Tony is a grown, stone cold gangster version of AJ. Who was 1 lucky f$&% for multiple reasons, on a multitude of situations. He got made for sticking up a card game within his own family, something 9999/10000 guys would've been clipped for. (in contrast how much we see Chrisy go through, even as the nephew of the boss) Came in at a time where he prospered off the hard work from guys before him. And became boss for next to nothing at all. We love Tony, but let's be real about him. What he says, thinks, and how the show puts that into perspective -- should always be taken with 10 grains of salt. He is a typical, narcissistic sociopathic grown spoiled brat, who never had to work that hard for his lifestyle. Little Carmine played them all. [Yet who EXACTLY killed Tony from New York? That is up for debate. As in the end, his own crew was openly shit talking him with him being in the next room.. an offense that got Patsies own brother clipped in the opener of Season 2]
@@jbach7274 This is a great overview! In the end, Tony is a very unreliable narrator. Maybe that’s why we never get to see his final end; it’s a part of his story that he can’t control.
@@robertbusek30 That's part of the fun of this show! You go back and rewatch it 9000 times, with an intention to look for a small detail or 2 here and there. And you will be AMAZED at how much shit you can pull up. The layers and depths to this thing are just insane man. For example: on one watch through, I made it a dedication to watch out for any/all people accepting Tony's money or wealth in anyway, shape, or form. (aka blood money) Another watch through, I made it a point to see how Tony would act directly after a therapy session. etc.. etc.. etc...
Little Carmine is like the textbook example of why in negotiations, it's better to just walk away vs agreeing to a bad deal. His self awareness is the reason why he'll be the one who grows old and will get to meet his grandkids and let them sit on his lap. Something we know Tony thought about but will never experience
I mean, we DON'T know if Tony ever got to experience that. Regardless of anyone's personal interpretation of the final scene of Sopranos, Tony's fate is intentionally left without an answer. David Chase has been very clear that we as the audience aren't supposed to know what happens after the show ends. The show just ends and, along with it, so does our perspective as the audience.
@@jcjvcjc98David Chase has let slip the final moments in the script was written as the ‘Death scene’ and he’s also said the ending wasn’t supposed to be ambiguous. It’s obvious Tony died and anyone who denies it is simply an idiot.
I don't think he was a genius pulling all the strings behind the scenes, but he was smarter than people gave him credit for. Sure he wasn't the most street smart but I think he had a solid grasp of the hig picture. It's like he had some of the social ineptness of Fredo but some of the strategic smarts of Michael Corleone.
The fundamental question is, will I be as effective as a boss like my dad was. And I will be, even more so...But until I am, it's going to be hard to verify that I think I'll be more effective
@@smellsuperb1 yeah,his real strength was not letting his ego interfere with his survival instinct. He never hungered to be boss, but he would be happy to take it if all the other challengers self destructed.
Little Carmine might have been pretty clueless at times, but he had the highest emotional intelligence out of any of the mobsters. He has empathy and understands others
@@yokatta-f No one will ever convince me that he didn't do that intentionally. Everything broke his way after that, he used Phil's volatile nature to get rid of Tony and the Jersey outfit, all by saying "Whatever happened there" at the right time. And he's smart enough to stay out of the spotlight and away from the rough stuff.
One thing that's noticeable about Little Carmine is that he is far less sociopathic than his contemporaries. He seems to have empathy and high emotional intelligence -- for example when he's talking with Tony about the "mellifluous box" dream, he genuinely seems to reflect on the meaning of it, and takes decisive action. That alone is something we see Tony to fail at for 6 seasons.
before i listen to the video I'll say little Carmine was smarter than I initially gave him credit for he realized what was really important that fighting to become the boss wasn't worth being murdered like Phil ,doc , Jerry, rusty or Angelo ( or dying in prison like Johnny he already had what really mattered a family he loved and that loved him
There's a reason Little Carmine is one of the few characters still alive by the end of the show. Dude knew how good he had it down in Florida and knew when to walk away from his attempts at claiming the boss position of the family. He wasn't completely driven by the desire for power like so many of the other characters were. He was content with being rich and for that I say he was very smart.
On a multiple viewing, I am surprised Tony never lashed out at Carmine Jr. after their conversation where he reveals he doesn't want to be boss. Tony HATES anyone who shows the emotional maturity, growth, and self-improvement he can never achieve. He either sabotages these people or hurts them physically or emotionally.
@@kw6713a Carmine Jr’s decision to step aside from Johnny Sac trying to take power happened only an episode or two before Janice started showing behavioral improvement through therapy that really set him off. Carmine’s self improvement choices may have crossed his mind, but not yet enough to sabotage the guy, especially considering he liked his working relationship with John.
You make very interesting points. All I can I'll say is Ray Abruzzo portrayed Little Carmine brilliantly. One of the most entertaining characters in a series that was loaded from front to back with excellent actors. I thoroughly enjoyed the limited appearances of "Little" Carmine Lupertazzi Jr. We Italians have a word for his type. "Chooch".
I don’t think little Carmine is a smart hidden mob genius making 4D chess movies, but he was smart enough take a step back and take a neutral stance during the war and was able to live at the end. He knew when to fold his hand and leave the card game.
I think his character was written with the 48 laws of power in mind. He wanted to be perceived as weak and incompetent because he didn’t want his opponents to view him as any sort of real threat. I’m starting to think it was all an act and he really was playing 4D chess. He had the insight that others in the mafia didn’t. To let his opponents take each other out while he sits on the sideline as the “negotiator” is genius. He was close by pulling all the strings but not involved with anything. Exactly what Tony was attempting to do with Christopher to insulate himself. I think we got a glimpse of the real Carmine when he was having lunch with Tony at the golf course and he didn’t seem weak or incompetent then.
On the Carmine Jr. mastermind/machiavellian theory, I did notice something interesting. When he sits down with Tony and talks about him becoming a boss, he tells the anecdote about Nicolas Fouquet - although in a hilariously confusing way. This anecdote is one of the first real life examples provided by the author in the book '48 Laws of Power', which focuses on sophisticated tactics used in obtaining power. I wonder if it was a very subtle nod that he was using this work as his handbook on dealing with the ongoing power struggle. The law where this anecdote is used (#1, never outshine your master) also would fit him perfectly with his underdog act. It also would make sense that he would only (poorly) remember such a historic tale if he had recently read it somewhere, since I doubt he was personally passionate about European history. Or most likely it is just all a coincidence, still think it's remarkable and instantly thought of this character when I read it.
The problem with assuming Carmine is as stupid as he seems is we never really see him alone, so of course he would play the fool even in social situations even around his own crew since there is always the chance they are in some other families pocket.
He has a smirk or a certain expression sometimes after he says something dumb. Bringing up Phil’s brother murder at that sit down with Tony and Phil looked completely calculated and on purpose. He can barely keep from laughing when he says his dad was “wearing a paper crown like from Burger King”. Little Carmine wants to live the life of luxury like a boss, but without all the headaches and stress. Pure and simple.
He was 1 of the most likely to have had Tony wacked, he instigated the war, was at the peace meeting with Butchy, and his(Tony's) son worked for him which would make sense for Carmine to know the location of Tony and some of his routines. Edit: lol I wrote the comment before even listening to the video. Saying similar things as I was thinking.
“As for being half-witted: well, what can I say except that I have survived to middle age with half my wits, while thousands have died with all of theirs intact! Evidently, quality of wits is more important than quantity!“ (I, Claudius)
I never understood why other characters call him an idiot, I feel the show illustrates this mainly through the words of these other characters. I'm not sure why the writers made him into a wise voice of reason, but at least you can say he didn't choose the life, he was born into it and perhaps he was just a nice guy unlike everyone else in the family business.
actually Carmine having deciphered his dreams without a psychologist doesn't have to be the case. Maybe he's been seeing one too and actually managed to get something out of it unlike Tony. After all there is no stigmata these days.
Honestly Little Carmine was probably one of the smartest characters in the show by the end, he recognized that he was trying to be something he wasn’t and could never be and just walked away, he had more guts and moxy than most other characters in the show because unlike everyone else he had the balls to admit to his shortcomings and walked away
Carmine is lucky, he made it so he doesn’t stay in the front lines, his income coming in from the operations, and he knows when to put aside is proud n make compromises to avoid getting whacked; I think he’s genius for that
Yeah, that is what i am thinking. I mean, either he is just that stupid, or he contrives to appear stupid while he spreads banana peels for others to slip on…. And who can blame an idiot like Carmine when they do slip?
Fiction is full of extremely intelligent people, thinking they are smarter than they really are. Like Walther White, not realizing he was on an ungodly lucky streak. Little Carmine actually managed to retire from the mob. Smart in a different way, aware of himself and his situation. All i'm saying.
I think you're dead wrong. Carmine plays them both. Not for the throne but for pure vengeance. Remember that during the same meeting, he evokes his man getting clipped and that he wants to find the culprits.. (Tony and phil) . He also remembers the role of phil & tony during the conflict with sacs... Yes he has chosen chilling in florida, doesn't mean he's not playing the new york fools to get the 2 crazy boss 6 feet under.
little carmine already suffered his share of mob unhappiness in his youth as the son of a don. He wasnt going to waste his adult years too by being unhappy and depressed. little carmine learned from his father's mistakes and took the leap to civilian life that even michael corleone was unable to accomplish. little carmine got to have his cake....and eat it too!
This video reminds me of Louis the whatever's finance minister, De-something, who was clapped in irons for building a place that even outshone Versales. Then it reminded me of the South Beach Strumpet series that then reminded me that a pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold, which is both sacred and propane.
I honestly believe that Little Carmine is very smart and just acts like the way he is in order to take advantage over the situation. Yes, he didn't wanted to be boss because he had people that were older than him who had lots of power and wanted them to play thieir part before Little Carmine could do anything. Once Jhonny and Phil were taken out of the picture, i could see Little Carmine becoming boss
Little Carmine made good decisions in the Mafia. He had self awareness to know that he was seen as a spoiled son of Carmine who didn't really deserve what he had and only had what he had from Nepotism. He made the right moves at the right times though. He had a loving wife who didn't care about him becoming the boss. There was really no need for him to be the boss because he was already wealthy from his likely inheritance from his dad and his own activities. It would have only served to put a target on his back by the FBI. He was also smart to have his main base of operations in Miami and just travel back to New York at certain times for business. He was kind of off law enforcement and everyone's radar because he wasn't always around. You don't need to be an English Professor or Lawyer to be a good mobster. Carmine mispronouncing words and phrases didn't really matter except to make other mobsters maybe think he was an idiot and take him less seriously which honestly may have helped him survive. He also seemed to be semi legitimate and had investments in mostly legitimate activities and businesses like movies and porn production which could be shady but not illegal. He probably learned a lot from his dad about how to go about his business as Carmine Sr lasted decades on the street and waa one of the rare mob bosses who didn't die in prison or get killed.
07:23 This is bigger deal than it sounds: mob has one of those unwritten rules that if you kill "one of your own", blood family is left out of it. That's not just how these things are done. Phil's death in front of his family was heartless and cruel, even by mob standards(Which would explain Tony's possible demise in season finale when HIS family was present).
I don't care what anyone thinks,.. in my estimation, Fredo Lupertazzi outshone even Versailles, AND avoided drowning in 3 inches of water at the penguin exhibit.
I say split the difference. Was he a secret genius all along? No way. Did he sieze power through a puppet at the end of the series? Damn straight he did. He's no genius, he's not even smart, but he isn't stupid and he has what Tywin Lannister called "low cunning". Butchie was definitely his puppet and it's quite possible he's the one that had Tony taken out.
Even if he’s not using butchie as a puppet, he’s still the strongest character in a Darwinistic sense. His instincts let him survive while smarter characters get killed
This comment section just shows why everyone can’t be a boss 😂 in here talking about emotions and how you feel like your GF’s 😂😂 2 things that should never come about in business
My thoughts are that during the power struggle, Carmine Jr realized Rusty was just planning on using him as a lightning rod like Tony did with Junior and he also saw the destructive cycle of violence that had been unleashed by Johnny Sack. I think that Carmine had one gift which was foresight; he could see that his fathers era was at an end. The news cast at the start of season 5 says Carmine Sr is the last old school boss and Tony later says that the other families are run by councils now instead of bosses. Carmine knew he didn’t have the respect to have war with johnny or phil so he needed to bid his time and wait for the issues with tony to run their course whether that be with the last bosses either dead or in prison. In Made in America tony and paulie meet with butchie, cha cha and carmine who ironically says “it didn’t have to be this way”. Those three are functioning as a council and carmine is the youngest of them, the future is his. Butchie and cha cha would be enraged by the brutality of phils murder in front of his wife and grandchildren and carmine knew tony had to go for the future unity of the lupertazzi family.
I love the character of Little Carmine. He has the connections, he has the look, he even sounds like a top mobster. Until he actually speaks. Little Carmine, portrayed brilliantly by Ray Abruzzo could steal any scene, offering welcomed and hilarious comic relief. Nice breakdown bud.
In no way was he the dumbest character in the show. Everybody younger than Christopher laps him in raw stupidity. He could’ve been one of the more emotionally glued together in the show, but that’s not exactly a high complement is it?
I've enjoyed your videos and commentary for a good while, Your analysis of this character represents you, at the top your game. If you will allow it, I'll carry your analysis one step further. Little Carmine understands that the thirst to follow in his father's footsteps will destroy everything he holds dear. In The Many Saints of Newark, Dickie confides in Uncle Sal, how bad he really wants a son, Uncle Sal tries to explains this same Buddhist tradition to Dickie, who doesn't get it. Little Carmine DID get it, He won the game, by never playing. It is called Tanha, It's the idea that wanting things, Only brings us pain, we should let that longing go.
Carmine was the perfect middle man both sides underestimated him and used him as a middle man but he needed to fan the flames a little about your brother or whatever happened there ,to make sure he had an important role and was still needed. I'll take carmine's ending over the so called smarter gamgsters.
With respect for other Sopranos Channels, in my view yours is the very best. I love your sense of humor. Your videos & the topics themselves are a treat. Great work. I hope you never stop CineRanter.
Little Carmine was on a higher spiritual level than humans. He had to dumb himself down so that mere mortals could comprehend him.
🤣🤣
so true
The sacred and the propane
That's a real possiblity. He found himself at the presepice..of an enormous crossroad.
or as he may have said , “mere morsels”
“I have survived to middle age with half my wits while thousands have died with all of theirs intact. Evidently quality of wits is more important than quantity!"
I Claudius
I think you're right. Little Carmine had the ego to avoid the leadership, while Tony tried it but realized that Junior was the wrong guy and couldn't help but take the reigns. Tony's fate was sealed when he became boss. Carmein avoided that fate but also had credibility to have power while avoiding becoming a target. With the whackos like Phil and Rusty out of the way and Jersey neutered he could take the reigns without becoming a target. He was able to do a Michael Corleone without lifting a finger. Kudos to him.
Tonys fate became sealed when he hitched his horse to Christopher then to Paulie then finally Bobby. Bobby was a good underboss but by the time he stepped in it was too late.
Tony was boss in fact before he was boss in name. I don't think Tony ever trusted Junior's leadership, he put him in power to take the fall and keep himself insulated.
@@marcuslosgreat4225 Christopher did the most things for Tony and was tasked with the most important jobs and he always came through. I suggest you watch it again.
Little Carmines character was straight out of the book 48 laws of power. He made himself look dumb and weak because that’s what he wanted his opponents to view him as. When in reality he may have been a genius if this theory is true. The fact that he was able to interpret the dream in a way Tony or someone like Phil couldn’t proves he was much smarter than them. This is my new favorite sopranos theory.
"We all know how emotional Phill is..."
That's because he has an empty Fuckin' stomach!
The wine makes him emotional
"Uncle Philly!"
@@eaglewinnings8003 "Uncle Philly" my ass!
@@bassbole classic man just started my 977th rewatch after seeing this video. Starting from season 3 this time I like starting back from random points gives better perspective
Uncle Philly my ass
His ineptness was a front that caused ppl to excuse his so called verbal mistakes but in reality they weren't mistakes cuz he couldn't out gun johnny sac or leatardo for boss so he strategically pit them against tony to eliminate his enemies that way.
I really love how you sprinkle all his misused words throughout this video. Very well done.
Very observant. The sacred AND the propane
A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold
I've always said Little Carmine wasn't as dumb as everyone thought. He kind of showed how it on the golf course with his dad.
I mean he did survive the whole thing lol
I don’t think he was a closet criminal mastermind but when he said “whatever happened there” it definitely seemed intentional.
I think he said that because, at some level, he understood that neither Phil nor Tony would take the truce seriously.
I just remember in the last episode, right before the last scene, I thought to myself "Holy shit, Lil' Carmine won."
Without even firing a gun
Carmine jr reminds me of Jean Perron, the former coach of the montreal canadians and was later traded to the quebec nordiques, the only coach in nhl history tonbe traded. He was famous for his malaproprosisms, still made a brilliant career
"If there's one thing my father taught me, it's this: A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold."
“The sacred and the propane.”
Lil Carmine was the *ONLY* character in the game who not only didn't end up in prison or dead
But also managed to get everything he wanted out of the life and then retire.
Lil Carmine may not have been book smart but he is the very definition of what a genius should be
I always liked his mannerisms and the way he talked.
I agree. Carmine didn't have what people consider traditional intelligence, but his emotional intelligence ended up being through the roof towards the end
Little Carmine may have worn the malifulous Burger King crown, but in the end did it outshine Versales? No, but it was sacred AND propane.
Carmine didn't put on his sunblock.
"Whatever happened there" the line that sparked the war lol....yea it's really reaching to say he's a genius. It actually makes sense he would say the line about Billy because it was a source of tension at the times
Carmine Lupertazzi Jr., Whatever happened there.
Little Carmine would of caused too much " dysentry in the ranks" as a boss
Darth Jar-Jar isn’t JUST a theory 😂
❤😂🎉 his eyebrows and nose tell everything!!
Fools are easily liked and trusted by others
He wasn’t a genius but he was smarter than he let on
Dysentery in the ranks gets me evry time 🤣🤣☝️🤌
Adulthood is realizing little Camine won.
Carmine wasn't respected, but what does a Rose care for the compliments from dung?
like if you were insulted by a drunken bum on your way to your 6 figure salary job, would you even stop to look at said bum?
"I don't want to be the richest widow in Long Island" means:
1. I love you and I want you to live (Something that Tony isn't too sure about seeing how Carmella acted).
2. He's saying: I am richer than all of you without having to worry about being killed or worry about feds.
Tony got so burned he didn't even realize it.
Regardless always felt that he was smarter than what he let on and I also feel like if you wasn't the richest he was one of the richest at the end of the show and also the most legitimate
I think he got smarter following his wife council. He using 5he divide and conquer approach when he saw the gap. That's smart! Some people are not leaders but hear and apply counsel and find success after.
Well, even though he was a little duh, especially in his thesaurus-choosing speechification (I have that word patented), during his little talk about his wife and about him standing back and living was very smart.
Having said that, I love the actor (he had a bit char on Mad Men as well) though, he played him just right.
I've come to the conclusion that his malapropisms might be a mild mental condition similar to dyslexia. It might even be congenital given that Big Carmine also does it ("There's no stigmata against it...")
Now I won't call Little Carmine Brainless II because of the inclement negative implications..
I Claudius?...I Carmine?
Tony didn’t almost beat coco to death he beat him almost to death then curb stomped him and killed him
Weird thing is.. Tony was just the Underboss
He was the street boss
He is a player of the game
Yeah but he never had the makings of a VARSITY PLAYER
Hear me out! I think he was very smart and played jersey against New York on purpose. I think he knew he wasn’t cut out for the life in New York but… after hearing carmine sr say how jersey was a glorified crew his whole life he felt like he could run jersey especially with extremely strong ties to New York. New York would have just been too much for him. He was mulling over being a boss at one point and I think he decided to let New York clean house and only then could he uncontestedly take the reigns in jersey. Superior chess player
Little Carmine has many similarities of Raymond Patriarca Jr. His dad greatly respected Jr. Was a Moron though not respected by his own guys.
More than likely, he is just like everyone else who over estimates their intelligence.
Carmine has funny Malapropism but so does nearly every character. The same goes for stupidity, only Carmine is generally more funny. His intellect is not tied to his criminal prowess either as this analysis suggests.
Little Carmine is by far the most successful outcome in the show, including all the female characters. He gets to retire, happy. He doesn't need titles. He never gets shot, doesn't have a heart attack, Dementia, stroke, cancer or stressed out. Describing his home life, at the end of his day he has a tub and a dinner with a drink made by a loving wife. None of the others are content with their place in the world, it's never enough.
He's one of the 10% who doesn't end up in the can or stretched out at Cuzzorelli's
His family is never in danger, his life is never really threatened. He set himself up with legitimate businesses so he cant be at risk of being indicted. He really did it right, he used his connections to get himself a legal easy life
He was smart, because he took his earnings, rep., etc... and moved far and away from it to start somewhat legitimate businesses. He moving back when his father passed, is very telling.
For him NOT to be included in the show that much, is a good thing for any single human being. Not being picked apart by the FBI, shaken down, threatened 24/7, etc... Meatheads were at the forefront of the mafia, having mid-life crisis while performing in the mafia in an era where guys tried to be old-school, and live through that in an era that was proving more and more by the day. To be extremely outdated tactics.
There was just too many occasions not to notice how he played a key role in passively pushing people into getting whacked, wars, etc... PEOPLE THAT STOOD IN HIS WAY MIND YOU.. the proposition of him to go out on the streets, with Rusty trying to manipulate him further WAS a 19d move. Him producing a movie of Tony's prodigies' murder fantasy, was the move that was all but the icing on the cake for Tony whacking chrisy. The sit down with Phil and Tony, how he purposely scuffed that to spark Phil's emotions, and inevitably cause the war. All while making it a point that he was 'too stupid' to have possibly been a key figure in any of that.. WHILE LITERALLY BEING THE ONE TO DO IT.
He, making one single move that eventually cause Tony B. situation that sparked the downfall of the relationship between NY and Jersey (especially it all being done through him in the shadows) -- mastermind shit. 379d
People like to rip on him, and dog on him cause yes he talks like an idiot. "a gallon of gold is worth more then a pint of blood". (which is hilarious, because he is a successful mostly legit guy. But the way he talks is as stupid as a gangster) And because Tony calls him retarded. But the truth about the whole show, is that it IS shot through substantially through the eyes of Tony being the 'good guy' or maybe more like the guy we come to love and route for.. and what Tony says at an eye's glance, even a 2nd, and 3rd watch-through.. it still sticks as such.
*We have to dig to see that Tony won't even admit to himself that he's jealous of Ralph's success.* Ralph -- while Tony was being pampered to become boss. Ralph had to drop out of school, and help his mother. instead of being an architect, he joined the mob for an easy quick scape; and absolutely thrived at it to the point he talked shit about Johnny Sac. and Johnny Sac. almost got whacked over it. Yet, being shot through the eyes of Tony.. all Ralph is: a psycho whose a comical idiot.
Therefore, viewers who love the show will often take sides with Tony. Even when he's at his most devious end stages.
But the truth is, is that Tony is a grown, stone cold gangster version of AJ. Who was 1 lucky f$&% for multiple reasons, on a multitude of situations. He got made for sticking up a card game within his own family, something 9999/10000 guys would've been clipped for. (in contrast how much we see Chrisy go through, even as the nephew of the boss) Came in at a time where he prospered off the hard work from guys before him. And became boss for next to nothing at all.
We love Tony, but let's be real about him. What he says, thinks, and how the show puts that into perspective -- should always be taken with 10 grains of salt. He is a typical, narcissistic sociopathic grown spoiled brat, who never had to work that hard for his lifestyle.
Little Carmine played them all.
[Yet who EXACTLY killed Tony from New York? That is up for debate. As in the end, his own crew was openly shit talking him with him being in the next room.. an offense that got Patsies own brother clipped in the opener of Season 2]
@@jbach7274 This is a great overview! In the end, Tony is a very unreliable narrator. Maybe that’s why we never get to see his final end; it’s a part of his story that he can’t control.
@@robertbusek30 That's part of the fun of this show! You go back and rewatch it 9000 times, with an intention to look for a small detail or 2 here and there. And you will be AMAZED at how much shit you can pull up. The layers and depths to this thing are just insane man.
For example: on one watch through, I made it a dedication to watch out for any/all people accepting Tony's money or wealth in anyway, shape, or form. (aka blood money)
Another watch through, I made it a point to see how Tony would act directly after a therapy session.
etc.. etc.. etc...
@@jbach7274 I do that with one of my favorite shows: Twin Peaks.
Little Carmine is like the textbook example of why in negotiations, it's better to just walk away vs agreeing to a bad deal. His self awareness is the reason why he'll be the one who grows old and will get to meet his grandkids and let them sit on his lap. Something we know Tony thought about but will never experience
I mean, we DON'T know if Tony ever got to experience that. Regardless of anyone's personal interpretation of the final scene of Sopranos, Tony's fate is intentionally left without an answer. David Chase has been very clear that we as the audience aren't supposed to know what happens after the show ends. The show just ends and, along with it, so does our perspective as the audience.
@@jcjvcjc98
Dont forget that one capo (carlito?) snitched to the feds. Even if Tony wasnt murdered, he was done for.
@@jcjvcjc98 My friend, even if Tony's life didn't end in the last episode, he's still going to jail for at least 50 years
@@greywakez probably
@@jcjvcjc98David Chase has let slip the final moments in the script was written as the ‘Death scene’ and he’s also said the ending wasn’t supposed to be ambiguous. It’s obvious Tony died and anyone who denies it is simply an idiot.
I don't think he was a genius pulling all the strings behind the scenes, but he was smarter than people gave him credit for. Sure he wasn't the most street smart but I think he had a solid grasp of the hig picture. It's like he had some of the social ineptness of Fredo but some of the strategic smarts of Michael Corleone.
The fundamental question is, will I be as effective as a boss like my dad was. And I will be, even more so...But until I am, it's going to be hard to verify that I think I'll be more effective
It's alogorical
He was smart enough to know what his strengths and weaknesses were, and he only focused on that which he could benefit from without turmoil.
@@eaglewinnings8003 he just have difficulties with words
@@smellsuperb1 yeah,his real strength was not letting his ego interfere with his survival instinct. He never hungered to be boss, but he would be happy to take it if all the other challengers self destructed.
Little Carmine might have been pretty clueless at times, but he had the highest emotional intelligence out of any of the mobsters. He has empathy and understands others
I love the way you worded that. You summed him up beautifully. 🤌😙
The sacred and the propane
Whatever happened there
@@yokatta-f No one will ever convince me that he didn't do that intentionally. Everything broke his way after that, he used Phil's volatile nature to get rid of Tony and the Jersey outfit, all by saying "Whatever happened there" at the right time. And he's smart enough to stay out of the spotlight and away from the rough stuff.
Brainless the II
It'll be tough to verify that little carmine would have been an effective leader
I'm reminded of Louis pastures finance minister, duh something.
We do know he had 33 titles under his sub species
One thing that's noticeable about Little Carmine is that he is far less sociopathic than his contemporaries. He seems to have empathy and high emotional intelligence -- for example when he's talking with Tony about the "mellifluous box" dream, he genuinely seems to reflect on the meaning of it, and takes decisive action. That alone is something we see Tony to fail at for 6 seasons.
Little Carmine understands his dream by himself, while Tony seethes at Melfi to explain it to him.
I never thought about which character ended up as 'the winner' at the end of the series, but after this I agree that it was Carmine Jr.
before i listen to the video I'll say little Carmine was smarter than I initially gave him credit for he realized what was really important that fighting to become the boss wasn't worth being murdered like Phil ,doc , Jerry, rusty or Angelo ( or dying in prison like Johnny he already had what really mattered a family he loved and that loved him
Carmine SR picked him out of the chorus though
There's a reason Little Carmine is one of the few characters still alive by the end of the show. Dude knew how good he had it down in Florida and knew when to walk away from his attempts at claiming the boss position of the family. He wasn't completely driven by the desire for power like so many of the other characters were. He was content with being rich and for that I say he was very smart.
It’s not about being boss, it’s about being happy
I don't think he was a mastermind, but he was intelligent enough to recognize what he had and walked away before he lost it.
Plus he had a lot of freinds...
Maybe carmine would be a good mentor to AJ because he would understand him.
Aj is the worst character in the show from start to end
@@thepistolguy859 little carmine is smarter than AJ and Jackie my father
On a multiple viewing, I am surprised Tony never lashed out at Carmine Jr. after their conversation where he reveals he doesn't want to be boss. Tony HATES anyone who shows the emotional maturity, growth, and self-improvement he can never achieve. He either sabotages these people or hurts them physically or emotionally.
Maybe he was too tired to lash out.
Or maybe by that point in the series he realized carmine was right.,
I think by this point Tony had given up on improving himself.
@@kw6713a Carmine Jr’s decision to step aside from Johnny Sac trying to take power happened only an episode or two before Janice started showing behavioral improvement through therapy that really set him off. Carmine’s self improvement choices may have crossed his mind, but not yet enough to sabotage the guy, especially considering he liked his working relationship with John.
I just saw it as Tony thinking he was stupid for thinking it as he only lashed out when he seems to know deep down someone is right
Little Carmine caused "dysentery" in the ranks? So he really *was* full of shit 😆
Let's just say growing old a free man without fear of getting whacked is a big W.
You make very interesting points. All I can I'll say is Ray Abruzzo portrayed Little Carmine brilliantly. One of the most entertaining characters in a series that was loaded from front to back with excellent actors. I thoroughly enjoyed the limited appearances of "Little" Carmine Lupertazzi Jr. We Italians have a word for his type. "Chooch".
i think you mean stunad. he's not a jackass
I don’t think little Carmine is a smart hidden mob genius making 4D chess movies, but he was smart enough take a step back and take a neutral stance during the war and was able to live at the end. He knew when to fold his hand and leave the card game.
It sure sounds like you're describing 4D chess moves.
@@swissarmyknight4306 more 3d chess
I think his character was written with the 48 laws of power in mind. He wanted to be perceived as weak and incompetent because he didn’t want his opponents to view him as any sort of real threat. I’m starting to think it was all an act and he really was playing 4D chess. He had the insight that others in the mafia didn’t. To let his opponents take each other out while he sits on the sideline as the “negotiator” is genius. He was close by pulling all the strings but not involved with anything. Exactly what Tony was attempting to do with Christopher to insulate himself. I think we got a glimpse of the real Carmine when he was having lunch with Tony at the golf course and he didn’t seem weak or incompetent then.
On the Carmine Jr. mastermind/machiavellian theory, I did notice something interesting.
When he sits down with Tony and talks about him becoming a boss, he tells the anecdote about Nicolas Fouquet - although in a hilariously confusing way. This anecdote is one of the first real life examples provided by the author in the book '48 Laws of Power', which focuses on sophisticated tactics used in obtaining power. I wonder if it was a very subtle nod that he was using this work as his handbook on dealing with the ongoing power struggle. The law where this anecdote is used (#1, never outshine your master) also would fit him perfectly with his underdog act. It also would make sense that he would only (poorly) remember such a historic tale if he had recently read it somewhere, since I doubt he was personally passionate about European history.
Or most likely it is just all a coincidence, still think it's remarkable and instantly thought of this character when I read it.
The problem with assuming Carmine is as stupid as he seems is we never really see him alone, so of course he would play the fool even in social situations even around his own crew since there is always the chance they are in some other families pocket.
He has a smirk or a certain expression sometimes after he says something dumb. Bringing up Phil’s brother murder at that sit down with Tony and Phil looked completely calculated and on purpose. He can barely keep from laughing when he says his dad was “wearing a paper crown like from Burger King”. Little Carmine wants to live the life of luxury like a boss, but without all the headaches and stress. Pure and simple.
He was 1 of the most likely to have had Tony wacked, he instigated the war, was at the peace meeting with Butchy, and his(Tony's) son worked for him which would make sense for Carmine to know the location of Tony and some of his routines.
Edit: lol I wrote the comment before even listening to the video. Saying similar things as I was thinking.
“As for being half-witted: well, what can I say except that I have survived to middle age with half my wits, while thousands have died with all of theirs intact! Evidently, quality of wits is more important than quantity!“ (I, Claudius)
Not to be undone by Benny Fazio.
I never understood why other characters call him an idiot, I feel the show illustrates this mainly through the words of these other characters. I'm not sure why the writers made him into a wise voice of reason, but at least you can say he didn't choose the life, he was born into it and perhaps he was just a nice guy unlike everyone else in the family business.
actually Carmine having deciphered his dreams without a psychologist doesn't have to be the case. Maybe he's been seeing one too and actually managed to get something out of it unlike Tony. After all there is no stigmata these days.
Honestly Little Carmine was probably one of the smartest characters in the show by the end, he recognized that he was trying to be something he wasn’t and could never be and just walked away, he had more guts and moxy than most other characters in the show because unlike everyone else he had the balls to admit to his shortcomings and walked away
Carmine is lucky, he made it so he doesn’t stay in the front lines, his income coming in from the operations, and he knows when to put aside is proud n make compromises to avoid getting whacked; I think he’s genius for that
In the end, he proved to be very wise by recognizing his limitations and leaving the game without any bitterness or lingering resentment.
“Your brother Billy, whatever happened their” Not brought up by accident.
Yeah, that is what i am thinking. I mean, either he is just that stupid, or he contrives to appear stupid while he spreads banana peels for others to slip on…. And who can blame an idiot like Carmine when they do slip?
Fiction is full of extremely intelligent people, thinking they are smarter than they really are. Like Walther White, not realizing he was on an ungodly lucky streak.
Little Carmine actually managed to retire from the mob. Smart in a different way, aware of himself and his situation. All i'm saying.
I think you're dead wrong. Carmine plays them both. Not for the throne but for pure vengeance. Remember that during the same meeting, he evokes his man getting clipped and that he wants to find the culprits.. (Tony and phil) . He also remembers the role of phil & tony during the conflict with sacs... Yes he has chosen chilling in florida, doesn't mean he's not playing the new york fools to get the 2 crazy boss 6 feet under.
Little Carmine is a dunce. But he walked away which makes him smarter than all of the others combined.
little carmine already suffered his share of mob unhappiness in his youth as the son of a don. He wasnt going to waste his adult years too by being unhappy and depressed.
little carmine learned from his father's mistakes and took the leap to civilian life that even michael corleone was unable to accomplish.
little carmine got to have his cake....and eat it too!
This video reminds me of Louis the whatever's finance minister, De-something, who was clapped in irons for building a place that even outshone Versales. Then it reminded me of the South Beach Strumpet series that then reminded me that a pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold, which is both sacred and propane.
Very allegorical
I honestly believe that Little Carmine is very smart and just acts like the way he is in order to take advantage over the situation. Yes, he didn't wanted to be boss because he had people that were older than him who had lots of power and wanted them to play thieir part before Little Carmine could do anything. Once Jhonny and Phil were taken out of the picture, i could see Little Carmine becoming boss
Little Carmine made good decisions in the Mafia. He had self awareness to know that he was seen as a spoiled son of Carmine who didn't really deserve what he had and only had what he had from Nepotism.
He made the right moves at the right times though. He had a loving wife who didn't care about him becoming the boss. There was really no need for him to be the boss because he was already wealthy from his likely inheritance from his dad and his own activities. It would have only served to put a target on his back by the FBI.
He was also smart to have his main base of operations in Miami and just travel back to New York at certain times for business. He was kind of off law enforcement and everyone's radar because he wasn't always around.
You don't need to be an English Professor or Lawyer to be a good mobster. Carmine mispronouncing words and phrases didn't really matter except to make other mobsters maybe think he was an idiot and take him less seriously which honestly may have helped him survive.
He also seemed to be semi legitimate and had investments in mostly legitimate activities and businesses like movies and porn production which could be shady but not illegal.
He probably learned a lot from his dad about how to go about his business as Carmine Sr lasted decades on the street and waa one of the rare mob bosses who didn't die in prison or get killed.
Carmine was never dumb he always make pretty interesting point , he just have difficulty to express what he trying to say .
Dumb*
No. Little Carmine was a certified moron.
But you know despite his malapropisms you know what he was getting at
@@deadchanneldontwatch7347 sorry english is not my first language so my auto corrrctor is in French so sometimes he do weird things.
@@D0nkkkkkk nah he always made good point and try to do the right things , he just have difficulties with words .
I'm landing on carmine being responsible
At the end of the last meeting to get Phil
Nobody shook his hand
4:00 lmao underrated reference.
Little Carmine pulled an iClaudius...watch iClaudius the BBC series
07:23 This is bigger deal than it sounds: mob has one of those unwritten rules that if you kill "one of your own", blood family is left out of it. That's not just how these things are done. Phil's death in front of his family was heartless and cruel, even by mob standards(Which would explain Tony's possible demise in season finale when HIS family was present).
I don't care what anyone thinks,.. in my estimation, Fredo Lupertazzi outshone even Versailles, AND avoided drowning in 3 inches of water at the penguin exhibit.
Your brother Billy whatever happened there......???
I would watch a spinoof about the Lupertazzis
me too
Be some butchering on English language 😂😂
Yasssss
I say split the difference. Was he a secret genius all along? No way. Did he sieze power through a puppet at the end of the series? Damn straight he did. He's no genius, he's not even smart, but he isn't stupid and he has what Tywin Lannister called "low cunning". Butchie was definitely his puppet and it's quite possible he's the one that had Tony taken out.
You mean it’s not black and white like everything else?
@@Serp_Entine why you gotta go making it about race? Lol jk
Even if he’s not using butchie as a puppet, he’s still the strongest character in a Darwinistic sense. His instincts let him survive while smarter characters get killed
All true except Tony being taken out. :P
Wisdom is defined as "skills for living" enough said.
"your brother billy whatever happened there".......the sentence that again got both sides fighting when they might have made up
This comment section just shows why everyone can’t be a boss 😂 in here talking about emotions and how you feel like your GF’s 😂😂 2 things that should never come about in business
ToxicNess....CunningNess....you're making Carmine look like someone with a PhD in English....whatever happened there....😶
My thoughts are that during the power struggle, Carmine Jr realized Rusty was just planning on using him as a lightning rod like Tony did with Junior and he also saw the destructive cycle of violence that had been unleashed by Johnny Sack. I think that Carmine had one gift which was foresight; he could see that his fathers era was at an end. The news cast at the start of season 5 says Carmine Sr is the last old school boss and Tony later says that the other families are run by councils now instead of bosses. Carmine knew he didn’t have the respect to have war with johnny or phil so he needed to bid his time and wait for the issues with tony to run their course whether that be with the last bosses either dead or in prison. In Made in America tony and paulie meet with butchie, cha cha and carmine who ironically says “it didn’t have to be this way”. Those three are functioning as a council and carmine is the youngest of them, the future is his. Butchie and cha cha would be enraged by the brutality of phils murder in front of his wife and grandchildren and carmine knew tony had to go for the future unity of the lupertazzi family.
I love the character of Little Carmine. He has the connections, he has the look, he even sounds like a top mobster. Until he actually speaks. Little Carmine, portrayed brilliantly by Ray Abruzzo could steal any scene, offering welcomed and hilarious comic relief. Nice breakdown bud.
In no way was he the dumbest character in the show. Everybody younger than Christopher laps him in raw stupidity. He could’ve been one of the more emotionally glued together in the show, but that’s not exactly a high complement is it?
This video is at the precipice of an enormous crossroads.
I love the videos on Yt with all Carmine Jr's malaproprisms. Hes like Ricky from Trailer Park Boys but not as funny.
I always thought of carmine Jr as unintentional parallel to Jackie jr
I've enjoyed your videos and commentary for a good while, Your analysis of this character represents you, at the top your game. If you will allow it, I'll carry your analysis one step further. Little Carmine understands that the thirst to follow in his father's footsteps will destroy everything he holds dear. In The Many Saints of Newark, Dickie confides in Uncle Sal, how bad he really wants a son, Uncle Sal tries to explains this same Buddhist tradition to Dickie, who doesn't get it. Little Carmine DID get it, He won the game, by never playing. It is called Tanha, It's the idea that wanting things, Only brings us pain, we should let that longing go.
Little carmine was also financially stable than most guys
I'll sold little Carmine was no genius he was something more... he was wise.
Carmine was the perfect middle man both sides underestimated him and used him as a middle man but he needed to fan the flames a little about your brother or whatever happened there ,to make sure he had an important role and was still needed. I'll take carmine's ending over the so called smarter gamgsters.
He might be stupid, but he's still not as stupid as Jackie Jr, getting high and then shooting up a card game full of made men and associates
If anything, Tony became boss because he thought it owe 2 his father
With respect for other Sopranos Channels, in my view yours is the very best. I love your sense of humor. Your videos & the topics themselves are a treat. Great work. I hope you never stop CineRanter.
Thank you