Forgeries in the Bible Exposed!: Documentary | Dr. Bart D. Ehrman
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Dr. Ehrman is the OG. His books helped free me from fundamentalism many years ago. I will forever be grateful for that.
Are you placing the words of Bart Ehrman above the words of everyone?
@@HisMessenger-wf5qdYou should read the comment again as you did what Christians tend to do when reading the Bible - read into the text.
He made reject me Christianity too❤
I still identify as a Christian, but I now see the Bible as a human creation, and I've abandoned all my former fundamentalist theology. I also don't judge anyone who has chosen to leave the faith altogether. Just wanted to clarify.
@FlaviusBrosephus So you're just identifying as a Christian, hmm, interesting.
Run time 4 hours 48 minutes 36 seconds? Jacob & Bart have become insane! This will take two or three evenings to watch, and there are still dozens and dozens of films from History Valley and Patristica*) in my backlog. Gentlemen, I have work to do! 😁
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*) Patristica is the definitely have-to-watch, eye-opening channel of the "Marcion was first Party".
Enjoy
Is it a compilation of interviews?
Rejecting Xtianity was the best decision ever😂
Yeahhh. Can't really know, can you? Until you do, then it's too late to change your mind 😂
@@AgamemTex you guys don't even keep the first commandment. Jews don't believe and never believed in a trinity of Messiah, Father and Holy Ghost. 😂
I think Bart mispoke a bit in saying that Jesus resurrected in Mark, but the ladies didn't tell anyone. That may be inferred however it actually just reads that Jesys is gone. The man sitting in the tomb simply says he is not here, he has been lifted up or carried up. The same verb is used by Jesus when he tells the lame man to pick up or lift up his bed. The inference is that Jesus got up and walked out of the tomb but the actual greek verbage is that he was cartied out or lifted out
Has anyone found one church that was related to Paul ever in history...????
Paul was from Benjamin not David. I'll let you do the math.
Even attributing James's blood relation to Jesus is spurious. I respect this man so much, genuinely. Sometimes you have to Bart on the side of caution with this shit though.
Almost 5hrs- i need a bible scholar certification after watching this. 😅
We're in the 21st century and people still believe these bush TV stories. Why?
Alleviation of guilt and fear of mortality/existential dread.
bookmarks would be helpfull
I particularly feel that the key to Jesu, God the Father and the Holy Spirit being able to be 1 is that Jesus is recorded in the gospels and transfugiring. When the Deciples were in the place they were at sounded like someone's house after his death, he simply just appears and asked for something to eat. It doesn't say he came in and was greeted at the door. It heavily aludes to the idea that he went thru was, caught them unaware, yet ate dinner with them. The ability to teleport in his new spiritual body means he has the ability to disconnect molecular and reconnect at will. God is said to be a/ the Holy,,,Spirit. JESUS being 1 with the father as he has been made new in a new transfiguration body, is also Spiritual.
By your logic, anyone who startles you is god.
Paul's description of the Jesus he encountered does not sound like a physical body but more of a spiritual body. I believe this is the same thing everyone saw.
@bjl1976 how is a blinding light anything like a body, spiritual or otherwise? A blinding light and a voice that doesn’t even identify itself. Paul is a charlatan, and anyone who accepts him as a good faith actor is a fool.
I find I really can’t handle a lot of these long Bart Ehrman things any more (though this is a repeat I think). It’s like endless variations on one thing. I understand that forgery here is not what the man in the street calls forgery ….but what do we call books that are mostly fabricated and imagined, with very little relationship to anything that actually happened in real life in the claimed timeframe?
If the intent of biblical scholarship is to analyse authentic fabrications and inventions, and not to determine actual real historical events as anyone would understand an historical event, then why not just declare this, and redefine what biblical scholarship is ?
@10:30 Faith for ‘authentic’ Paul is an catch-all phrase for what I would express as ‘a trusting obedience to God being enacted in imitation of the pattern of.Jesus’.
It is such ‘Christic faith’ that is expressed when Paul wrote about how he acted in 1 Corinthians 4.10-12. It is imitation of Christ (1 Cor 4.16-17). ‘Pauline faith’ must be expressed in a certain pattern of behavior and orientation toward fellow human beings.
So - for authentic Paul, faith also encompasses the teachings of Jesus embodied in one’s lived life.
For ‘authentic’ Paul, Jesus demonstrated faith in his actions.
It is this aspect of faith that is emphasized in the letters to Paul’s trusted delegates, Timothy and Titus.
Ehrman’s definition of faith is way too narrow, though what he defines (a trusting relationship) is certainly also part of faith, but because of the narrowness of his chosen definition, it excludes the highly significant expressive dimension of ‘Christ-shaped’ fait, that is expected of all mature Christians (such as Paul’s delegates).
Ehrmans particular argument here turns out to be ‘weak tea’, to put as mildly as I possibly can.
It is certainly not true that ‘faith’ in the letters to Paul’s delegates, who were mature followers of Jesus, reduces to ‘propositional truths’.
I would certainly like to see the evidence for that assertion by Prof. Ehrman:
I have just checked 1 Timothy and Titus, and Ehrmans ‘propositonal faith’ is simply not to be foun in those letters. What is written about abundantly is faith expressed in action and we also hear of people who failed to express faith in action. Faith expressed in action is the very kind of faith that Jesus epitomized.
1,2Timothy and Titus were not written by Paul.
That is why Dr Ehrman doesn't form his opinions of Paul on them.
@ I do not understand why you respond as you do. I see no evidence that Ehrman forms his opinion about Paul based on a careful reading the seven letters of Paul that he holds to be authentic.
My arguments against Ehrman are based precisely on those seven letters.
See for example Philippians 1.27, which is also written to quite mature Christians:
“Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, STRIVING together as one FOR THE FAITH OF THE GOSPEL …”
If Ehrman had read and pondered verses like these carefully, he ought not have defined ‘faith’ so narrowly as to be merely a ‘trusting relationship’.
Here is another example from Philippians 3.9:
“not having my righteousness, which [is] of law, but that which [is] through Christ’s faith -- the righteousness that is God’s by the faith,”
The seven ‘authentic’ letters do in places like the verses I have cited express exactly the same emphasis on ‘faith expressed in action’ as we see the letters to Paul’s spiritually mature delegates.
I speak of this on the basis of deep study of Paul. Ehrman is just wrong here and he holds to an untenable doctrine of faith. He could still be right that the letters to Paul’s delegates are inauthentic, but on the basis of the arguments he presented here, the case is weak.
Bishops/elders and deacons are greeted in Philippians, and by that token, the community in Philippians is even more advanced than the ones we see in 1 Timothy and Titus. This is again weak tea.
Does everyone know who created Christians?
Their parents?
I would like to see some research into the claims about Paul. Paul, we are told claims to be a Pharisee of Pharisees. He claims to be the send it from the tribe of Benjamin and, and a very bizarre sentence, references his circumcision on the 8th day. I mean all Jews talk that way don't they? Hi I'm Bob, I'm from the tribe of Judah and I was circumcised at the 8th day according to the law Nice to meet you. I'm sorry just had to get that off my chest. Now Paul claims to be of Benjamin. It is also claimed of Paul that he was a kinsman of Herod which would make him an Idumean. It is also claimed in acts that he was a Roman citizen. Okay So how common was it for Jews to be granted citizenship in the empire? How is that accomplished? Did one parent need to be Roman? That's what I've heard some say but I don't know whether that is correct. If it is correct however there is a problem. If Paul's father was Roman then Paul was not of Benjamin. If Paul's father was a Jew and his mother was Roman, then Paul wasn't even a Jew. Has any work been done looking into this? Thank you guys Love your analysis and knowledge!
Bart is dope, no question. His dismissal of the potential for euhemerism/mythicism seems off hand to me. That's all I personally can fault the man on.
Euhemerization is a good process to bring up.
I think the possibility that there was a man who posthumously became Jesus through the collective writing efforts of creative people with a purpose in mind. They packed as many allusions and parallels that they could into these stories, until any component of the life of the historical man was squeezed out, or, subsumed by transforming them to better suit the mythic subtext.
By that point, euhemerism kicked in.
Bart takes the scholarly method to be, one must assume this was an elaboration of a real man until proven otherwise. He cannot fathom a discipline that approaches the literature differently than a chronicling of events.
A scholar must, imo, approach the gospels as literature primarily. Until you explore the purpose behind the literature, you cannot conclude it was intended to chronicle the life of figure in such a way as to include specifics of his historical life.
Josephus' "Jesus ben Ananius a plebian" who died by the Roman's opening shots against Jeresalem's walls, is a good candidate for a historical connection to the Historical Jesus.
With the caveat that neither accounting is true, but that they might well be based on the same actual guy.
@howaboutataste Well said. To be fair, Ehrman gets pretty close to the hypothesis without ever using the terminology. He's willing to concede a lot of ground (even when trouncing someone who should have done a much better job, in debate; Robert Price. That was a disaster). It's worth mentioning euhemerism can, as I understand it run in both directions: a deity made from the collective myths of a real person/s or a proposed deity or divine entity being situated in history as an ostensible real life being. Cheers for the reply xMx
Can't pronounce pseudopigrapha. Bad start.
The only forgery here is Bart Ehrman's PHD thesis.
That’s just your forgery opinion? Would you care to elaborate on your theory? With evidence please…
He studied under one of the world's leading experts on New Testament manuscripts, and he represents the consensus views of contemporary critical scholarship. You may disagree with him, but your comment is unintelligent and unwarranted.
@FlaviusBrosephus I concur