I have absolutely no problem with Chuck being the ultimate villain. Ever since I learned he put himself into the story for a front row seat, I got weird, completely narcissistic vibes from him, so this really didn't surprise me. I just wish they could have executed the final season better, though there are things that I love about it.
At first I felt the same way but I also realized that’s how Sam and Dean wanted to end things dean with his brother happily after a while and sam living happily
It makes sense that Chuck would be the ultimate big bad for the last season, after all, when Chuck was first introduced (Season 4, epi 18) the episode was called The Monster At The End Of This Book.
I remember watching this episode and my jaw dropped for so long. I couldn't believe it. After the episode was done I thought when Chuck vanished at the season 5 finale. He really wanted this to play out. Brilliant move. That's why I really enjoyed and appreciated this finale and the song at the end is so fitting. I've been obsessed with that song ever since
Chuck choosing this narrative is so interesting. Making Dean (father) not only kill his son (Jack) but himself. He's using John's line (if you can't save him you gotta kill him) about Sammy all the way in S2. But as we have progressed, we see that Dean is better than his father, not revenge driven to the detriment of everyone around him, he says no refusing Chuck's storyline and John's mistakes and terrible parenting. He thinks about what Mary would want because he now knows her, which was not this, (the opposite of what John was doing) and he sees who Jack is. I don't think Chuck's ending is about the brother's killing each other..it was about utter devastation and loss of family - cause this show is about family - blood and found and all that encapsulates (familiar, platonic, romantic). And this narrative is about Cas and Sam losing both Dean and Jack at once. Which if we look at the ending of the series, really says it all doesn't it??
There are all kinds of feelings about Chuck/God being the ultimate bad guy that I’m not gonna touch. But what I did love personally is the idea of how fictional characters would feel about the author if they knew. As a writer, it gave me chills, because every writer is a little bit sadistic. It’s a very cool brain-twisting concept to me, and I thought it was a stroke of genius.
I'm a non-sadistic writer and I love Chuck and feel sorry for him. He is a writer who ceased to have faith in his characters. I always tell new writers, never plot, edit only for errors. If the characters are good, they'll write themselves. Chuck's not evil, he just plans his stories too much, trapping his characters and getting bored, because in his head, the story is already told.
Chuck "welcome to the end " Chuck aka God is "The monster at the end of the book", which was the title of the episode when Sam and Dean first met Chuck.
This was THE BEST finale for setting the main plot of the last season. the Idea is perfect, epic! if they wanted to fight one last monster for the last season, why not God? I loved this episode so much! The mirror ghost was Bloody Mary :D
The thing that he can‘t easily fix souls isnt too stupid if you think about it. I know how to repair my car, but nonetheless its super complex and not a 2 minute task.
They always revealed things to fast.. like revealed that Jack will comeback on next season and on season 5 ending they revealed Sam comeback too at the end
Fighting losing people we love Sam says but didn't Sam tell Claire death is not the end. Anybody you lose can always come back so don't really mean anything if you lose anybody on this show it just means goodbye for now see you later cause more than likely we will see you again unless they don't want to come back like the actor playing Crowley lol. Think that's why he's never come back. He didn't like what they did with his character wanted to get killed off and do other stuff lol.
Did you notice when Jack yelled STOP LYING! no one was even talking? Without lying, they had nothing to say. Interesting. OH MY CHUCK! Great song for the scene "God Was Never On Your Side". We saw The Woman in White, Bloody Mary, John W Gacy. Chuck turned into such a prick! I hate that it is the final season coming up. 😭
He said it himself in his first episode he's a cruel comprisess God lol. This majes so much sense even in real life. I can see God being a writer. I don't think he necessarily lies but he dies choose people to do stuff he does intervene especially during the exodus but I could see him liking stories abd saying either I can just go in there and fix it or I can wrote abd have these people fix it themselves or have stuff happens that'll be a awesome story in the Bible. Really the Bible is a bunch of stories even if they're real they still stories that entertain abd teaches lessons. This scenario is just like what God did to Abraham but in that he intervene in last second this time I don't think he will but what's the point of making a gun that'll kill dean if he kills Jack cause you know he'll just bring dean back again lol. Obviously I guess cause it's a awesome story abd a test like God did with Abraham it was like a test lol to see if he'll do anything for him lol. I love watching these episodes with Chuck. Wish we got more like flashback to creation of universe before that his time on earth lol what we didn't see before where he's watching them or doing stuff we can't see cause he didn't want us to lol. Abd that's a odd question Sam asking him if he watching them when he's not there lol. He's God if he is he's everywhere sees everything lol. Questioning why he can't just restore Jack's soul is like before them Questioning why didn't God stop any of the wars or people getting killed or kids born with cancer or kids not born at all. Where's God during all that. Sitting back watching lol. Like they say he works in mysterious ways. There's lessons to be learned. If he was always intervening we wouldn't have free will really there wouldn't be much of a show there'd be no stakes no one would die one snap boom creature of week dead. Why not snap all evil in world dead. Cause of balance lol.
Always loved Chuck so funny lol so cool the journey we've went with this character lol. Wish we got to see more of his backstory more of the other worlds why didn't he just make a new colt it can kill anything and you don't have to die too lol. Gods like this more of interesting story than god fixes everything boom story over lol. God fixing everything all the time would be boring lol that's why Chuck does what hebdoes. Watch tenet that shows lots of stuff backwards lol that's how that world probably be like lol. I agree with Chuck but I disagree but I agree more all these shows all these characters I can see how they get intermixed maybe how you may Cate about them but maybe not or some more than others or you might care about some at the time but over time not as much lol. This Chuck god stuff is crazy lol. Its epic lol. Love to watch all Chuck episodes knowing what we know now lol
I don't mind that they decided to make Chuck the final season villain, this show has always played with meta, I just wish it had used more character nuance and a lot less ret-conning in the last 3 seasons of the show. Not really a fan of the last season of the show.
agreed. the *concept* for s15 is brilliant, especially since it's already building on such an interesting meta-narrative, but imo they really fumbled the execution of the idea.
Chuck should had appeared in more episodes in season 14 to me because their should had been buildup to this dabb and singer really dropped the ball but at this point I'm not surprised
Chuck being bad? I like it from the meta narrative point. I think S15 is boring at the surface and some of the worst decisions a few episodes in that never made sense, but if you look at it from the meta or Chuck won theory, it is so interesting.
I remember watching this episode, and feeling really let down by it's execution, since the concept has so, so much potential, and it could easily have been done in a way that, at least for me, would have massively increased my enjoyment. I hate how they side-lined Cas in the final confrontation, literally threw him to the side. Jack is first and foremost Cas' kid that he promised to protect (fine that Chuck-the-writer only cares about Dean's conflict here, but the shows writers shouldn't, I feel), and Chuck is Cas' "father" that he fully believed in once. Dean and Cas are friends that have been through near everything together, and now Dean wants to kill Cas' kid, and Cas won't let him. There's an emotional confrontation there that is just so fucking juicy, especially considering how Cas became "god" once with good intentions but bad consequences, not that dissimilar to the Jack situation now, and the whole framing of Jack as inherently monstrous now that he lacks his human soul, something Cas' doesn't have either. There is so, so much potential there! Let Jack listen to what each of these two father figures have to say about his existence, and if you want him to be willing to die, have him come to that decision through listening to them. It might be interesting to see Jack having the position that he IS capable of having a moral compass despite his lack of soul, that he can learn right from wrong without empathy, but also that having said moral compass means choosing to die because he thinks he is too powerful to exist as an imperfect being? It might provide an interesting contrast to Chuck, who is very much imperfect, but chooses to exist and exert his will over his creation for his own amusement. Having some confrontation between Chuck and Cas over fatherhood would be interesting too, given Cas' former faith in God and eventual disappointment in his absent father, only now to find a "meddling father" set on bringing them misery for his amusement. What father does that? Cas carries shame over becoming "god", but at least he was a genuinely well-intended, if morally grey, god when the Leviathan didn't drive him to violence, and when he realised what they did he sought to rid himself of them and thus his power. Cas and Chuck make for such delightfully contrasting figures as both fathers and beings of power. This is just some subjective ideas that keep haunting my head for how this could have been done differently to appeal much more to me, but the thing I feel was almost objectively the wrong decision was that the show didn't have the fucking guts to end this with "welcome to the end", snap, then cut to black.
@@lucentaunisage Yes, and I'm not saying "give less screentime to Dean". Dean can absolutely be the center of much of it, if that is for some reason desired, but without making him the center of Jack's world.
Fun little fact, if you go back to the first episode to ever introduce the character Chuck, it was titled "The Monster at the end of this book".
And Amara said in season 11, "Chuck's light is a lie."
One of the first things Chuck told Sam and Dean he must be a God they thought he was joking
That song choice "God was never on your side" is chef's kiss.
i can't tell which scene with a song was perfect either this or death's first appearance
@@Mosdra_Kazuma both!!
I have absolutely no problem with Chuck being the ultimate villain. Ever since I learned he put himself into the story for a front row seat, I got weird, completely narcissistic vibes from him, so this really didn't surprise me. I just wish they could have executed the final season better, though there are things that I love about it.
At first I felt the same way but I also realized that’s how Sam and Dean wanted to end things dean with his brother happily after a while and sam living happily
no the way they did it was absolutely idiotic.
It makes sense that Chuck would be the ultimate big bad for the last season, after all, when Chuck was first introduced (Season 4, epi 18) the episode was called The Monster At The End Of This Book.
True. And it also makes sense that Andrew Dabb was the showrunner b/c SPN did in fact jump the shark (S4E19) when he took over.
I remember watching this episode and my jaw dropped for so long. I couldn't believe it. After the episode was done I thought when Chuck vanished at the season 5 finale. He really wanted this to play out. Brilliant move. That's why I really enjoyed and appreciated this finale and the song at the end is so fitting. I've been obsessed with that song ever since
Chuck-reveal really divides opinions, but that last scene with that song still remains epic.
Lemmy
The Woman In White was the monster in the first episode. And the one in the mirror was Bloody Mary(also season 1).
Chuck choosing this narrative is so interesting. Making Dean (father) not only kill his son (Jack) but himself. He's using John's line (if you can't save him you gotta kill him) about Sammy all the way in S2. But as we have progressed, we see that Dean is better than his father, not revenge driven to the detriment of everyone around him, he says no refusing Chuck's storyline and John's mistakes and terrible parenting. He thinks about what Mary would want because he now knows her, which was not this, (the opposite of what John was doing) and he sees who Jack is.
I don't think Chuck's ending is about the brother's killing each other..it was about utter devastation and loss of family - cause this show is about family - blood and found and all that encapsulates (familiar, platonic, romantic). And this narrative is about Cas and Sam losing both Dean and Jack at once. Which if we look at the ending of the series, really says it all doesn't it??
Love Rob's performance in the graveyard scene. I was totally intimidated
There are all kinds of feelings about Chuck/God being the ultimate bad guy that I’m not gonna touch. But what I did love personally is the idea of how fictional characters would feel about the author if they knew. As a writer, it gave me chills, because every writer is a little bit sadistic. It’s a very cool brain-twisting concept to me, and I thought it was a stroke of genius.
I'm a non-sadistic writer and I love Chuck and feel sorry for him. He is a writer who ceased to have faith in his characters. I always tell new writers, never plot, edit only for errors. If the characters are good, they'll write themselves. Chuck's not evil, he just plans his stories too much, trapping his characters and getting bored, because in his head, the story is already told.
@@helenwood8482 chuck played with their loved all of that time for his entertainment and you’re saying you feel bad for him? And he’s not so bad?
Bloody Mary and the woman in white. It's freaking crazy to see them again
This was an incredibleway to end this season!
This was the most epic season finale of the entire show.
Can't believe you are on to the last season. Can't wait for this ride. Wow is right.
The song at the end it's very good!
Despite not liking like most of the nephilim and Mary Winchester saga I remember really loving this ending it'd just so epic.
Yes now this was soo shocking to me my first watch 💀 I was like no way god was the big bad the whole time cuz literally he put them through everything
Chuck "welcome to the end "
Chuck aka God is "The monster at the end of the book", which was the title of the episode when Sam and Dean first met Chuck.
first one is woman in white, second one is bloody mary
Not just those they "killed" he let out everyone who was ever sent to hell even those in heavens and hells jails
Rob's first convention after this aired.. he said he was ready to be booed.
I really wanted to see that world without yellow..
This was THE BEST finale for setting the main plot of the last season. the Idea is perfect, epic! if they wanted to fight one last monster for the last season, why not God? I loved this episode so much!
The mirror ghost was Bloody Mary :D
Mirror girl was bloody Mary
Sam shot g-d! My tallest bean!
Imagine what would happen if people can't lie in real life😂
Eyy It's Chuck villain story arc. It sounds cool, on paper. Excited to see s15 reaction!
Season 1
Lets hunt some vamps
Season 15
Lets hunt God
The thing that he can‘t easily fix souls isnt too stupid if you think about it.
I know how to repair my car, but nonetheless its super complex and not a 2 minute task.
They always revealed things to fast.. like revealed that Jack will comeback on next season and on season 5 ending they revealed Sam comeback too at the end
Not to mention Chucks first episode was called "The Monster at the end of this book".
5:43-5:53 😂
top 3 episodes for me
Fighting losing people we love Sam says but didn't Sam tell Claire death is not the end. Anybody you lose can always come back so don't really mean anything if you lose anybody on this show it just means goodbye for now see you later cause more than likely we will see you again unless they don't want to come back like the actor playing Crowley lol. Think that's why he's never come back. He didn't like what they did with his character wanted to get killed off and do other stuff lol.
The final season is so good!
Did you notice when Jack yelled STOP LYING! no one was even talking? Without lying, they had nothing to say. Interesting. OH MY CHUCK! Great song for the scene "God Was Never On Your Side". We saw The Woman in White, Bloody Mary, John W Gacy. Chuck turned into such a prick! I hate that it is the final season coming up. 😭
He said it himself in his first episode he's a cruel comprisess God lol. This majes so much sense even in real life. I can see God being a writer. I don't think he necessarily lies but he dies choose people to do stuff he does intervene especially during the exodus but I could see him liking stories abd saying either I can just go in there and fix it or I can wrote abd have these people fix it themselves or have stuff happens that'll be a awesome story in the Bible. Really the Bible is a bunch of stories even if they're real they still stories that entertain abd teaches lessons. This scenario is just like what God did to Abraham but in that he intervene in last second this time I don't think he will but what's the point of making a gun that'll kill dean if he kills Jack cause you know he'll just bring dean back again lol. Obviously I guess cause it's a awesome story abd a test like God did with Abraham it was like a test lol to see if he'll do anything for him lol. I love watching these episodes with Chuck. Wish we got more like flashback to creation of universe before that his time on earth lol what we didn't see before where he's watching them or doing stuff we can't see cause he didn't want us to lol. Abd that's a odd question Sam asking him if he watching them when he's not there lol. He's God if he is he's everywhere sees everything lol. Questioning why he can't just restore Jack's soul is like before them Questioning why didn't God stop any of the wars or people getting killed or kids born with cancer or kids not born at all. Where's God during all that. Sitting back watching lol. Like they say he works in mysterious ways. There's lessons to be learned. If he was always intervening we wouldn't have free will really there wouldn't be much of a show there'd be no stakes no one would die one snap boom creature of week dead. Why not snap all evil in world dead. Cause of balance lol.
Always loved Chuck so funny lol so cool the journey we've went with this character lol. Wish we got to see more of his backstory more of the other worlds why didn't he just make a new colt it can kill anything and you don't have to die too lol. Gods like this more of interesting story than god fixes everything boom story over lol. God fixing everything all the time would be boring lol that's why Chuck does what hebdoes. Watch tenet that shows lots of stuff backwards lol that's how that world probably be like lol. I agree with Chuck but I disagree but I agree more all these shows all these characters I can see how they get intermixed maybe how you may Cate about them but maybe not or some more than others or you might care about some at the time but over time not as much lol. This Chuck god stuff is crazy lol. Its epic lol. Love to watch all Chuck episodes knowing what we know now lol
17:50 so now we know god is a baby. If he doesn't get his ending he cheats takes his ball and goes home? 😤😤😤😤😤😤...........🤮
I don't like Chuck no more.
I don't mind that they decided to make Chuck the final season villain, this show has always played with meta, I just wish it had used more character nuance and a lot less ret-conning in the last 3 seasons of the show. Not really a fan of the last season of the show.
agreed. the *concept* for s15 is brilliant, especially since it's already building on such an interesting meta-narrative, but imo they really fumbled the execution of the idea.
Yeah I hate that the last 3 seasons were filled with retcon garbage not a fan of season 15
Looks like it would be an episode Stephen King would write
To be honest I never liked what they did with Chuck
Your not only about that I hated what they did with chuck
Chuck should had appeared in more episodes in season 14 to me because their should had been buildup to this dabb and singer really dropped the ball but at this point I'm not surprised
The most infuriating retcon of them all.
Chuck being bad?
I like it from the meta narrative point. I think S15 is boring at the surface and some of the worst decisions a few episodes in that never made sense, but if you look at it from the meta or Chuck won theory, it is so interesting.
@@hisgirlfriday28 No, not him being bad, but the part about controlling their lives all those years.
@@hisgirlfriday28 And I agree, S15 is boring.
@@MartinGbizies yes! Agreed. They should have had a free ending, at the beach, toes in the sand with those little umbrella drinks
@@MartinGbizies but if he created the universe then yes he controlled their lives just not their choices.
I remember watching this episode, and feeling really let down by it's execution, since the concept has so, so much potential, and it could easily have been done in a way that, at least for me, would have massively increased my enjoyment. I hate how they side-lined Cas in the final confrontation, literally threw him to the side. Jack is first and foremost Cas' kid that he promised to protect (fine that Chuck-the-writer only cares about Dean's conflict here, but the shows writers shouldn't, I feel), and Chuck is Cas' "father" that he fully believed in once. Dean and Cas are friends that have been through near everything together, and now Dean wants to kill Cas' kid, and Cas won't let him. There's an emotional confrontation there that is just so fucking juicy, especially considering how Cas became "god" once with good intentions but bad consequences, not that dissimilar to the Jack situation now, and the whole framing of Jack as inherently monstrous now that he lacks his human soul, something Cas' doesn't have either. There is so, so much potential there!
Let Jack listen to what each of these two father figures have to say about his existence, and if you want him to be willing to die, have him come to that decision through listening to them. It might be interesting to see Jack having the position that he IS capable of having a moral compass despite his lack of soul, that he can learn right from wrong without empathy, but also that having said moral compass means choosing to die because he thinks he is too powerful to exist as an imperfect being? It might provide an interesting contrast to Chuck, who is very much imperfect, but chooses to exist and exert his will over his creation for his own amusement.
Having some confrontation between Chuck and Cas over fatherhood would be interesting too, given Cas' former faith in God and eventual disappointment in his absent father, only now to find a "meddling father" set on bringing them misery for his amusement. What father does that? Cas carries shame over becoming "god", but at least he was a genuinely well-intended, if morally grey, god when the Leviathan didn't drive him to violence, and when he realised what they did he sought to rid himself of them and thus his power. Cas and Chuck make for such delightfully contrasting figures as both fathers and beings of power.
This is just some subjective ideas that keep haunting my head for how this could have been done differently to appeal much more to me, but the thing I feel was almost objectively the wrong decision was that the show didn't have the fucking guts to end this with "welcome to the end", snap, then cut to black.
Agreed! I love Dean personally but he really got too much of the Jack/Father context when it was definitely more Cas and even more Sam.
@@lucentaunisage Yes, and I'm not saying "give less screentime to Dean". Dean can absolutely be the center of much of it, if that is for some reason desired, but without making him the center of Jack's world.