The Holy Spirit & Tongues | Dr. David K. Bernard & Dr. Jared Runck
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2024
- General Superintendent David K. Bernard and Dr. Jared Runck, Academic Dean and Assistant Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at Urshan College, discuss biblical teachings about the Holy Spirit and tongues as well as related practical considerations. This broadcast was recorded in the UPCI media studio on April 23, 2019.
I appreciate how Bro Bernard noted the fact that it is surrender rather than encouraging people to mouth words.
Amen
Amen, it didn't stop at Pentecost, as many say! the promise is unto us and to our children and to all who are a far off as many as our lord shall call!
But on the day of Pentecost, they spoke real language. They didn't babble.
God Keep Using ministers and all the men of God
God bless these gentlemen for not fearing people's persons.
Love this explanation.
Bro Bernard is such a wonderful man to learn from!
I like this. Never have put "this is that" in such context. Definitely leaning more in your direction after hearing this.
I have a question. If you have never spoken in tongues, are you eternally lost? This seems to be what you are teaching. Where does this put ppl like Billy Graham ? What about all the Christian churches that do not speak in tongues? And what about the ones who have sought to speak in tongues for a lifetime, but never received? I really need to hear a definite answer. I haven’t been able to get that from any UPCI member thus far.
Thank YOU FOR YOUR HELP WITH ME!! I RECEIVED THE MESSAGE AND FORGIVE ME FOR ALL MY SINS!!!
Learned alot through this!
Everyone should seek the Lord for the filling of the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the sign of speaking in tongues ( Mark 16:17, Acts 2:4, Acts 10:43-48, Acts 19:4-6)
Do you have the holy Ghost and how did you receive it if you don't mind me asking? Thank you
And thank you for your exhortation and for the verses.
Thank you for this.
👍 . Bro. Bernard sure can give in-depth explanations to any topic given him .
snapstring he’s a wonderful example of why we need to study always and continue to learn. I study using English, Hebrew and Greek for this reason, never quit learning but I love his kind and gentle spirit.
#NotTrue
@@Xaforn you are an example to not believe someone just because they say they study English, Hebrew, and Greek. That doesn’t mean you have the correct understanding.
@@renewalofmind2266 Very true.
@@hargisP2 upci sucks.
this is a great lesson
What great Conversation! God bless you all! 👍👏
Awesome explanation, I was just speaking with my family about this, Thank you!
Great video God Bless!
So awesome! We need more videos like this
My name is actually Richard Querney. When I was a teenager living in Germany I went through a summer school in Tillburg Holland witth David around 1986ish. David do you remember this time? I went to IBC but more importantly I learned from a great man Jim Sleeva
Good study.
Mary is blessed among women.
She too had to receive the Holy Spirit.
The outward will change as the resident manager restores what sin and vice destroys.
Mary received the baptism of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pent along with the Apostles just as they did.
t in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1 Corinthians 14:18 KJVS
[18] I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
@@hargisP2Don't stop there 1Cor 14:13-15, and then after your chosen vs18, follows 19-23 Praying in Tongues are between you and God and edification is for you, unless there is an interpretation within the the assembly of others, otherwise don't do this
And Paul also asked the new believers, Have you received the holy Ghost since you believed?
Amen.
I believe confessing with your mouth is a part of the Salvation experience. Confessing to others what has taken place in your life to others. Tongues would be a sign of that confession.
Exactly, like going to a priest in the confessional! It's an experience, an act which helps to bring forgiveness!
@@Spencercola3 Not that kind of confession, more like proclaiming, broadcasting your faith. The confessing you are talking about is repentance. That has to happen before salvation.
Tongues is a part our testimony
Jesus said we must be born of water and the spirit. John 3:5KJV
The holy spirit is Jesus.
We need Jesus in us to help us to be saved and live holy.
Many Professing Christians say they have the holy spirit but they never spoke in tongues when Jesus came into their heart. And you don't see no change in them.
You need the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:4.
The day of Pentecost is when the 1st church began.
I have a straightforward question. Does the UPCI believe that if a person does not speak in tongues, then they are not saved?
Also, I believe AI will not be able to know the thoughts of someone speaking in tongues.
In Acts ch2 when the 120 received the ''GIFT'' of the Holy Spirit, GIFT in Greek is rendered {DO-REH-AH'} and refers to a salvation gratuity or promise....... The '''GIFTS''' of the Holy Spirit referred to in {1Cor ch12--ch14} , the word GIFT in Greek is rendered {KHAR'-IS-MAH} from where we get the word CHARISMATIC and God will only bestow certain individuals to perform those gifts majorly for the edifying of the body of the Church.
Loved every word
What an incredible explanation of this!
The old testament refers to stammering lips and another tongue
My question. The 120 on Pentecost spoke a language of people from different cultures. But tongues I hear at these meetings are not a earthly language.
God bless you Carol...noticed your comment on tongues. Please refer to {1 Cor 13 vs 1} where the apostle Paul makes this statement.....''''Though I speak with the tongues of MEN AND OF ANGELS'''....so the bible does not limit tongues to only be earth based but also of angels or of the heavenly realm, if you please,
Although I recently witnessed an Indonesian girl receiving the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues praising the name of Jesus in perfect Aramaic. It was interesting that just like the day of Pentecost, this was a witness to someone else in that room from that country where Aramaic was the country's mother language....... To this man, he was in awe as the evidence of the reality and the power of God unto salvation was manifest to him. Over the years I have personally spoken in different tongues under the Holy Spirits anointing........The apostle Paul said in {1 COR 14;18} I thank my God I speak with tongues more than ye all.
@@waynethomas1900 Great explanation brother 🙌🏼😁
@@waynethomas1900 Good observation on Paul... how many languages (glossa/tongue) did he speak again?
@Carol Lookup "Missionary tongues" - this is what was first believed when Charles Parham and his Bethel College first made the doctrine of the "initial evidence" - he believed the Tongue that the Spirit gives utterance is a new human language to help spread the Gospel. When missionaries went overseas however, and were confronted with the reality they could not speak the language of the natives - this understanding of "tongues" came to be re-defined as unintelligible utterance.
Lookup "pentecostals and higher criticism" - this higher criticism, a German method of interpretation, is what was used to re-define the tongues from missionary to unintelligible utterance. This happened around 1907 and is well documented.
@@adamr6301Ah the Germans who push away the Holy Ghost. There stoicism better known as lukewarm is not to be followed.
Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believe thank you Jesus for giving me the Holy ghost
Amen!!! Holy Language ☺️
I lost my home and my daughter came and got me to come live with her well I had a car
It was stolen so it got to be a problem cause she goes to a Baptist and she said toe you can ho with me well. The pastor has two are three songs then he teaches out of the Bible. Then they pass. The plate for. Money some more singing then its over am so sorry if the holy spirit hit me am going to obey God
🔥
What about if there is no tongue
There is NO evidence that the unknown tongue was at the day of Pentecost!
They had the gift of everyone understanding in their own language!
Also not all have this gift so it is false to think you have to have a gift to show you are saved.
Why is there never a interpreter? 1 Corinthians 14:27-28
If you hear anyone speaking in tongues where the vowel A is predominately spoken, what language is this?
I have no clue, but God is so wondrous, isn't he? He infills us with known tongues and unknown tongues..
Canada.
They knew the sign was speaking in tongues
If they didn’t they would not have been able to receive it..
You must hear about before you receive
Here is what I have experience is you have 2. One. You have people that actually speak in tongues as the spirit gives. You have no control you can't stop it until God is done. Two, You have people that Institute it. You learn how to speak in tongues but it is not God taking over, I don't think this is the Holy Ghost speaking, it is just you doing it to let people hear you and that is not the holy ghost speaking. I hear people do this all the time. I believe in speaking in tongues don't get me wrong. But if God is not speaking it just you tring to let people thank you have the holy ghost. I know I have been there. I want it to be of God not me. These people that just throw tongues out there you need to stop. Let God do it. God bless.
Think about this more deeply and read your Bible carefully:
If you have no control of speaking, then you no longer have free will. That totally violates the relationship between God and man. If you have no control of what you are doing, that is called 'possession'. The true God does NOT do that. The devil spirit realm does. Read I Corinthians 14 carefully. You will see that speaking in tongues is primarliy for your private prayer. It is always to be interpreted when done in a fellowship gathering. The Corinthians were out of order on this and Paul had to correct them. You will see that God is not controlling them at all. They are in complete control of what is happening. The problem with most Christians is they don't understand that the spirit of God they received when they confessed Jesus as Lord, and believed in the resurrection, IS A GIFT from God. That gift is the nature of God, the nature of Christ. It is now theirs to do with what they WILL. They have this gift to do the good works God ordained them to do (Eph 2:10). Read the book of Acts through II Thess very carefully. You will see how we as Christians are never controlled, but need to learn who we are as saints, what we've been empowered with, and how to walk in love in/by it. Love ya & peace!
Everyone that has the gift of tongues can stop speaking any time. They do have control.
@@hargisP2No .... to another kinds of Tongues 1Cor12:10 Not all have the Gift of Tongues. Your Prayer Tongues/Language that it has been called. Is Private! Just as been explained in these comments not for all to hear and witness in an Assembly
Its the only right road
This man argues against tradition and the structure of the church, and yet recognizes that the apostles looked to each other and the "structure of the church" to understand the nature of tongues. WOW, he doesn't see his own contradiction.
6:28
"They are asking the leadership of the church"
What? Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees or missing the plot... 🙄 I don't know how or why you brought "structure of the church" into this, but he just gave you example after example after example that tongues is *necessary.* I'll just say it for Dr Bernard: *You're welcome.*
@@Spencercola3 even as late as 1950’s thru 1980’s Methodist, and Baptist churches were speaking in tongues in Kentucky, West Virginia, and most of the Bible Belt. You want to talk about structure, that structure was lost because Satan got people to believe it was nonsense. And then people miss reading 1 Cor. 13-14 made them more lost.
@@hargisP2vs 15 says and I will pray with the understanding. Do you pray with understanding when you pray in Tongues? You would answer, of course not. That is Paul's point, make an effort to pray in Spirit and Mind
what age can a child speak in tongues
Some children have been filled with the Spirit of God, speaking in tongues by the power of God, as young as age 5, that I know of. God bless you! :)
@@sonnypaul655 Don't be brainwashing kids to speak a buncha crazy-talk. Shame on you.
Father, and Holy Ghost are inherent in the nature of Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is the Holy Ghost in eternality, and the Father in eternal relationship
Matthew 28:19
Yeah exactly, the Holy Trinity!
First comment here. :))
THE TRUTH IS JESUS THE WORD AND HE IS THE ONLY GOD WHO EXISTS AND SPEAKS THE WORD (JOHN 1:1). WAKEUP GUYS, DON'T IGNORE JOHN 1:1. JESUS ALONE, SAID "LET...US...MAKE MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE"
Tongues in the original language is different 'languages'...like at mount Sinai. So if you hear an 'angelic language' that isn't an actual language, then its a deception. Period. And the precedent for tongues is 'if there isn't an immediate interpretation, then its a deception. Look it up. This is dangerous ground, and requires discernment. Tongues is real, but its an actual language and it is not mandatory for reception of the Ruac Ha'Kadesh. It *can be a gift of the HS in the right situation.
Have any of you actually read Acts chapter 2?
Yeah, we have. Multiple times. Have you?
@@rachybaby72 I have, which your response is somewhat childish. Since you have read Acts Ch 2, explain what the Word says about the tongues the Apostles were speaking in.
@zwilliams56 I'll be oh so HAPPY to do that -- as soon as you tell me:
1) Do you believe that tongues is a prescription for Christians *today?* If you say *"no,"* back it up with the Word...
2) Tell me what the Word says about tongues in 1 Corthinthians 14 verse 2, 4, 14, & 28?
@zwilliams56 *PART 2:* And my question was the SAME question YOU posed to US. So if you don't like being asked in an "actually" snarky, condescending manner if you've read Acts 2, then don't do it to us, Mr/Ms "Somewhat Childish"...
*And I'm still waiting for your answers...*
Please Let the Bishop Talk....
Right. Right. Right. Right.-----------🤣
All 3 events in Acts were public events!
Where is the verse of private prayer in tongues? Paul thank God he spoke in more languages than anyone not that he was keeping score!
Paul said if someone speaks in the language that no one understands he’s talking to the air, so if you’re talking to the air in the congregation, aren’t you doing the same thing by yourself? Because even you don’t understand what you’re saying! I pray with my mind, and I pray with my spirit!
1 Corinthians14:15
In the church if someone speaks in an unknown language, pray for understanding!
If you pre-buy yourself in an unknown language, recorded & maybe somewhere in the world will recognize it! I’m still looking for the verse of private prayer unknown language being
invalid!
There are two kinds of tongues: Tongues we all must have as evidence that we have received the Holy Ghost; and the gift of tongues which only some of us will get as it regards to interpretations, which was brought up in 1 Corinthians. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're asking.
@@rachybaby72 I’m sorry but in Acts there was only one type of languages/tongues…earthly! And I know there’s a continuance!
But Benny Hill, Kenneth Copeland, a swinging coat and falling people and rolling uttering gibberish there’s nothing to compare it in the Bible! Matthew6:7
@Joe Rod Uh huh... Do you believe that tongues is a prescription for Christians today? 🙂
I don't care about what Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, etc. do. I care about what's in the Word.
Ofgs... There is a heavenly language and an earthly language -- and the -heavenly- earthly language is still being spoken today in churches as well. In 1 Cor, it's clear that the heavenly, unknown language is an edification to oneself because your spirit is praying, and you are speaking to God. *Edifying yourself* (1 Cor 14 vs 4) is not a contradiction to the 'interpretor' part of the scriptures for prolonged spoken tongues (1 Cor 14 vs 14 and 23). If it was the case that unknown tongues are *only spoken* in conjunction with interpretors (for others to understand), there would be no need for Paul to emphasize and acknowledge that we edify *ourselves* when we speak in unknown tongues.
@@rachybaby72 I think uer misunderstanding! Where do u come up with an unknown tongue/language? It’s not about edifying yourself it’s about edifying the church!
Paul says if it’s not understood uer talking to the air. Give me the verse of heavenly language! Wish you would read 1Corn 12-13-14 till it’s clear!
Paul said he in church he would rather speak 5 intelligent words than ten thousand no one understands! So when does he speak tongues more than everyone else? (…he thanks God he can speak more languages than others to get the message to them! Corn was a port + Paul was getting the word out to the gentiles!) sorry exegesis doesn’t cut it!
Mental Ascension
Ecstatic Gibberish
Incoherent Gobbling
it’s heavily tongues/languages! Or is there a tongue/language that God understands better? ????
@Joe Rod Where did I come up with that, you ask? I gave you the scriptures. Unlike the word "trinity, what I said is LITERALLY in the scriptures. *Would you like me to write out the scriptures this time instead of giving you just the chapters and verses?* Just say the word, and I'll paste in the Word... 🙂 ⏳️
Why if Baptized in the Holy Spirit and the Word of God in the King James Bible , 2 Peter 1;21 , Amos 3:7 , Acts 2:16-21 , 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 ,
@@GodsPreciousPearl my question to you is, is it your place to judge? NO
Person deleted their comment cuz they couldn't take the heat 😂
Part 1 -
There is nothing mysterious about Biblical "tongues" - when referring to something spoken, they are nothing more than real, rational language(s); perhaps unknown to those listening to them, but always known by the speaker(s) - it’s their native language.
If the history of the Pentecost movement is examined, one fact is very clear: at some point, between 1906 and 1907, the Pentecostal church was compelled to re-examine the narrative of Scripture with respect to “tongues”. The reason for this re-examination was that it quickly became embarrassingly obvious that their original supposition, and fervent belief in tongues as xenoglossy, certainly wasn’t what they were producing.
This forced a serious theological dilemma - As a whole, either the Pentecostal movement would have to admit it was wrong about “tongues”, or the modern experience needed to be completely redefined. The latter option was chosen.
One would think it impossible to study the history of Pentecostalism without, at the very least, a cursory look at the ‘tongues issue’. Because the Pentecostal doctrine and understanding on tongues was completely redefined, this would seem to present a problem - how can the issue be taught by Pentecostals to Pentecostals? The answer is rather surprising. The entire issue seems to have been conveniently ‘forgotten about’ and for all intents and purposes, swept under the rug. Very few, indeed if any, Pentecostals are taught about this issue; in my experience, most aren’t even aware that it ever existed.
In redefining “tongues”, Pentecostals looked to primary and secondary source works for an alternative explanation. It is during this time that, that (mainly) five German scholars promoted a fresh new approach to Biblical interpretation that purposely tried to avoid the trappings of traditional and enforced interpretations of Biblical texts, collectively known as “Higher Criticism”. Part of this tradition was examining “tongues” as ecstatic utterance, rather than the supposed xenoglossy as understood by mainstream Christianity for centuries.
As a quick aside, an important thing to note is that, prior to 1879, the term ‘glossolalia’ did not exist - it is a word coined by English theologian, Frederick Farrar (Dean of Canterbury) in 1879 in one of his publications.
The Pentecostal solution was an adaptation from the works of Farrar, Schaff and a few others. These ideas were further ‘tweaked’ to more adequately fit their new notion of tongues. From this, the concept of “prayer language” as an explanation for the modern phenomenon of tongues-speech was formed.
Over a short period of time, a Pentecostal apologetic was built. The emergence of the term “utterance” was strongly emphasized - it kept the definition ambiguous as it allowed for a variety of definitions beyond real, rational language, it was something sort of related to language, and could be defended more easily. “Utterance” fit much better in the Pentecostal paradigm and did not require empirical evidence. ‘Natural Praise’ and ‘adoration’ became a feature of ‘tongues’, and then ‘heavenly’ or ‘prayer language’ further broadened the definition. The term ‘glossolalia’ was transferred in from academia and was given a Pentecostal definition. In short, the tongues doctrine simply shifted into new semantics without any explanation. Xenoglossy one day, “prayer language” the next.
The resulting implicit theology however was not a synthesis of revelation and philosophy, but rather a synthesis of trying to make sense of the modern “tongues experience” in light of the narrative of Scripture. A way to legitimize and justify the modern phenomenon by ‘proofing’ it in the Bible. The problem with this however, was an obvious overwhelming absence therein of anything resembling modern tongues. Call it what you will, but for this group of Christians, the result was a virtual re-definition of scripture with respect to the understanding and justification of modern “tongues”; a re-interpretation of select Biblical texts to fit the modern practice/connotation of what ”tongues” was/is perceived to be.
What is amazing to me is how absolutely none of this is taught. It’s a topic that today is completely glossed over and conveniently forgotten about in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles.
WWWOOOOOOOOOWWWW. Awesome. Now, can I find that in a book somewhere? I would love to have it in print.
@@adamr6301
No, it's a sort of summary of some of my notes over years of studying the modern phenomenon of tongues-speech as a Linguist. Can always just copy to a Word doc and print.
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474
Oh so you didn’t didn’t seek God on the matter, just another man who says what you want him to say. There is a angelic tongue. A prayer tongue that God gives. 1 Cor 13. I know some non denominational Pastors that have a prayer tongue because they believe what the Bible says, not man. The Bible proves your study wrong.
@@hargisP2
“Tongues of angels” is frequently used as a vehicle to posit ‘angelic speech’. That entire phrase, as well as a few others in that particular part of Paul’s letter, is 100% pure textbook hyperbole no matter how one wishes to slice and dice it. There’s just no getting around that. In all instances of angels speaking, it has always been in a real, rational language. In fact, in traditional Jewish belief, angels can only speak and understand one language; specifically, the sacred/sacerdotal language of Judaism, Hebrew. Paul, being a Jew, would have known this, which lends further support for his intentional use of hyperbole.
‘Tongues’ (read, *‘languages’* ) - the divine gift, is the God given ability to effortlessly learn to speak and be understood through real-language barriers. It is not xenoglossy, nor is it the self-created non-cognitive non-language utterance of modern tongues-speech.
Acts 8 Simon the sorceror was baptized in sin. A proof that, regardless of tongues as evidence, we never know the heart of someone and if they come according to the bible, making that outward profession, you have to be baptized.
Why would Peter baptize him without tongues when others supposedly had them?
We are all Sinners God is Our Savior!!❤️☺️ God Bless
Because Acts 2:38 .
@Chris Hall
If you don’t speak in tongues you don’t have the Holy Ghost, that is that.
We as the UPCI shouldn’t soften this message
Said Charles Parham and his Bethel College - yes, he was the founder of this doctrine of men.
Said Paul to the early churches - never.
Said Peter to the early churches - never.
Yep, that is what Charles Parham believed... no one else taught this, not even in the Bible. Of course, he also believed in the destruction of the wicked, as opposed to the eternal punishment of the soul.
Amen
If someone has prayed and didn't receive, why would they not and should they keep seeking?
@@adamr6301 who even is that? 😂 He's not a church Father, he's not an apostle.
Part 2 -
The plain fact however, is that the “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an _entirely self-created phenomenon_ . It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing sounds (phonemes) of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with. It is, in part, typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns and over-simplification of syllable structure. It is occasionally sprinkled with recognizable praise words/phrases (things like ‘hallelujah’, ‘praise Jesus’, ‘Meshiach’, etc.). One of the most immediately obvious results of these processes is that no two ‘speakers’ will ever have the same “tongue”…ever. Occasionally some speakers will use two or more subsets of phonemes to generate glossolalia, producing what, to them, sounds like two (or more) distinct “tongues languages”, thus claiming to be able to speak in “divers tongues”.
Here’s the thing, if a person or being produces a stream of speech, in order for it to be ‘language’, regardless of whether spoken in front of you, in some remote corner of the word, on some alien planet, or on some heavenly/spiritual plain of existence, to be 'language', it must contain at a minimal two features - these two features are universal, _regardless_ of _where_ or _by whom_ the speech is being produced; 'tongues-speech’ contains neither one of these two features. It is simply a facade of language. Neither, by the way, is modern tongues/glossolalia gibberish. Gibberish does not seek to mimic language. Glossolalia does.
People believe something to be supernatural because they can't explain it otherwise. There are, of course, many things in religion which must be taken on faith; they can neither be proved nor disproved. "Tongues" however, is not one of these things. It is something very concrete and tangible; it is a phenomenon which can be (and has been) studied and analyzed. As one writer bluntly put it: tongues speakers need to understand they are making a very testable claim, and the test has failed, every single time.
There is absolutely _nothing_ that “tongues-speakers” are producing that cannot easily be explained in natural and/or linguistic terms.
Conversely, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely no Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s), though it may not be the explanation you want to hear, and it may be one which is radically different from what you believe/were taught. So much so, that many find them implausible.
With respect to the concept of scriptural re-definition mentioned further above, the best two examples of this are the phrase “praying in the Spirit”, and the word “tongue(s)” itself.
“Praying in the Spirit” does _not_ refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to _how_ one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with modern “tongues”, i.e. when one “prays in the Spirit”, one is typically engaged in some form of tongues-speech.
The word “tongue(s)” itself is simply a more archaic word for (real) “language(s)”, nothing more. Replace “tongue(s)” with “language(s)” in these various passages and the whole modern Pentecostal/Charismatic concept of “tongues” begins to become difficult to posit - “language(s)” sounds a lot less mysterious, and in many cases, adds more clarity to the text. Again, in Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the word has come to be equated with the modern concept of “tongues-speech”. Indeed, one of the most mindboggling responses I ever received in reference to the above is “They would not be called ‘tongues’ if they were languages.” - it’s honestly difficult to know where to even begin to go with that type of mentality!
The popular modern distinction/classification of ‘four types of tongues’ is also the direct result of the Pentecostal redefinition of ‘tongues’ in order to fit the modern phenomenon/understanding.
The most damning result of this re-definition is the reading into scriptural texts of things that are just not there.
Modern tongues is a _tool_ , remotely akin to chanting, deep prayer, or meditation, etc.; a way by which one may establish a closer relationship with the divine and strengthen one’s spiritual path. In this respect (i.e. as the _tool_ it is), it can be quite powerful one to accomplish these goals, as attested by many of those who use it. Most other cultures that practice glossolalia realize it's a 'spiritual tool'. It is only in certain Christian denominations where is it construed as something it never was.
Most people who use ‘tongues’ are very keen on describing the ‘experience’. Indeed, for those that use it, it is very psychologically, physically, and spiritually fulfilling. It’s almost like primal screaming. When people practice ‘tongues’, they feel a sense of sweet release in that all stress can be gone after the experience.
People can describe the experience, but in examining the “mechanics” behind it…well, not so much. When a person has experienced tongues, s/he is absolutely convinced as to the ‘scripturalness’ of his/her experience and the correctness of his/her doctrinal beliefs - this, despite the overwhelming scriptural absence of anything remotely akin to it.
Mind you, I'm not doubting or questioning the 'experience'; as mentioned, glossolalia as the tool that it is, can be very powerful. Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually _any other culture that practices glossolalia_ . The glossolalia they are producing is in no way different from the glossolalia today's Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians are producing.
Known by many different names, “tongues”, or more accurately “glossolalia”, is practiced by many cultures and religious beliefs from all over the world; it is relatively new to Christianity and certainly not unique to it.
By the way, I’m a Linguist, not a theologian and let me also add here that I am neither a so-called ‘cessationist’ nor a ‘continuationist’ - I do not identify with either term; in fact, I had never heard the two terms until just late in 2016. Cessationist vs, non-cessationist is a bit of a false dichotomy; gifts ceasing is mentioned only once in one short sentence and the remainder of the Bible is totally silent on the matter. The one place it is mentioned is rarely taken into context of the entire passage. As far as I’m concerned, quite frankly, since the Biblical reference of “tongues” is to real, rational languages, obviously “tongues” haven’t “ceased”; people still speak.
Very articulate I must admit, please explain the scriptures referencing tongues-or languages- in the passages given? Your view is very non-theological and when explaining a biblical concept, the words used are important, but you need to go back to the scripture and make sure that the interrupting is fitting to context.
@@theschultzfamily3651
Not sure if this is what you mean,but let me just take one passage in light of real language.
1 Cor 14:2 -
_For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries_ .
Let’s paraphrase this into a more modern English and use a better translation for “understand”, and a more modern rendering of the archaic “tongue” - “He that speaks in a language isn’t speaking to others, but only to God; no one hears with understanding; however, though he’s ‘praying in the Spirit’, he’s speaking mysteries.”
Paul calls for clarity and understanding at a public worship so that _all_ may benefit; not just one person. The whole passage is talking about real, rational language.
To use an analogy - If I attend a worship service in ‘East Haystack’, Alabama two things are going to be evident: one; there’s only going to be so many people at that service (i.e. there will be a finite given amount of people there) and two; the chances that anyone in East Haystack speaks anything *but* English is pretty slim to nil.
If I start praying aloud in say Lithuanian, there’s no one at that service that’s going to understand a word I’m saying. Even though I’m speaking a real language, no one _there_ will understand my “tongue”. That does not mean or imply that no one else understands Lithuanian; just no one at _that particular service._ In this sense, therefore, I am speaking _only to God,_ since he understands all languages. To everyone at the service, even though I’m praying in the Spirit (as defined below), I’m still speaking “mysteries” - just another way of saying that even though I’m praying as I ought, no one understands me; I’m still speaking in ‘mysteries’ - no one has a clue what I’m saying as no one speaks my language.
“Praying in the Spirit” does _not_ refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to _how_ one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with modern “tongues”, i.e. when one “prays in the Spirit”, one is typically engaged in some form of tongues-speech.
There is nothing in this passage that suggests modern tongues-speech nor is there anything that even remotely suggests that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying; it is the listeners who do not understand, not the speaker - no matter how hard modern tongues-speakers want the speaker to also not understand, it just isn’t there.
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474 Yes that is what I meant. Your interpretation of that instance and how it could be referring to speaking in a known language to that person doesn't match up with what we see in Acts 2:38, Acts 10;44-46, Acts 19:1-7, or 1 Corinthians 14.
What was the meaning and significance of those languages spoken in their context? It does seem like Acts 10:46 refers to a the mixture of some known language and the rest unknown.
Let me say that I agree with you when it comes to the large majority of "Pentecostalism" and tongues. What I do believe and know is that there is a real and biblical tongues as well.
@@theschultzfamily3651
I don't know those passages off the top my head - but if tongues related, I likely have something. Will respond to them as soon as I can.
Oh, okay - got it now: Pentecost, Cornelius, Ephesus, and the church at Corinth. I have those in light of real language - will post as soon as time allows.
This topic needs to re-opened Time stamp 47:47 Romans 8:26. This verse isn't giving any proof of any heavenly prayer language being used here. It says that The Spirit Maketh Intercession WITH GROANINGS...... Not with any kind of language.... thats why Paul continued to write, That CANNOT be UTTERED! Which means as it is defined in the Greek, Using Spoken words, language of any kind. Why is this being taught that this verse is evidence of a Prayer LANGUAGE that the Holy Ghost uses for Intercession, when it clearly says GROANINGS?
AMEN!! I came to this knowledge a few months ago. There are 3 groanings in that chapter that are mentioned
- creation groans
- we also groan
- the Spirit groans
Great observation, the Spirt's cannot be uttered - expressed verbally.
@@adamr6301 wow that went right over the heads of both of you. The Holy Ghost in the Christian is groaning within the speaking tongues. The UN spiritual can not understand the things of the Spirit.
You spell it out and still can’t see it. Amazing. Take off the blinders. Unbelief is blinding you from reading correctly.
@hargisP2 How did this go over our heads? You just said yourself, Speaking in Tongues, how is Speaking in Tongues a Groaning which cannot be Uttered? Any kind of tongue/language is a Utterance. A Groaning isn't a language. A Groaning is an internal Moaning as defined from that Greek word being used
@hargisP2 Are you able to explain? Are you able to show Biblical proof that Groaning is praying in the Spirit/Tongues?