Looks like a lot of people tried the Honolulu Skyline Rail this weekend. Looking forward to seeing future ridership numbers and what the City does to keep the momentum going until other stations can be completed.
Having at least monthly events at or near the stations is a fantastic idea to keep people using Skyline after the opening weekend hype. As of now, the two stations that will get the most use on their own are the Pearlridge Center and Aloha Stadium stations (for the last two weekends of the Fair, and the Aloha Flea market swap meet three times a week.). Maybe an outdoor food and craft fair in East Kapolei stretching from the UH West Oahu station to Ka Makana Ali'i Mall could work?
I lived in LA when they first built the Metro. It got a lot of hate back then too because there were only 2 lines and they didn’t even meet. But you have to start somewhere, and now it goes all over and is widely used. If you ever travel, many major cities around the world have a rail system.
yea i've used the Santa Monica line & it does work pretty good. Also, helps ppl get out of their cars & walking is more healthy. I have doubts the state will ever have enough money to expand to UH Manoa & Waikiki w/o help from the feds lol. But not getting to UH and Waikiki won’t maximize the potential of rail.
I was born and raised on Oahu, but now live in LA. I've used their various LA Metro Rail lines to Santa Monica and Pasadena. They just opened a regional connector project two weeks before Skyline opened, which allows two light rail lines to travel under downtown LA, eliminating transfers to the subway. They have a grade separated busway called the Metro G line across the suburban San Fernando Valley that works pretty well too.
"Widely used" my foot. The Manhattan subways are "widely used." I went from riding Manhattan subways for two weeks, then travelled directly to LA, stayed on Hollywood Blvd for another 2 weeks and took their rail and it was nearly EMPTY. I rode the LA rail day and night, weekdays and weekends and it was HARDLY used. Cars were largely EMPTY. This was in 2019 BEFORE COVID.
A fair assessment. I think you hit the key word which is potential. I would also say another key word is opportunity. There is a lot of potential and opportunity for local small businesses to start popping up near the rail stations. Maybe it's food trucks and mobile bathrooms at first and then if successful, possibly building permanent businesses where zoning allows. I really liked your idea of local farmer's markets, craft fairs or similar events as a great way to keep the interest and usage more consistent while we're all waiting for additional stations to come online. Having lived in the DC area for almost 8 years before moving back to O'ahu, I came to rely on the DC Metro trains "metro" for work and play. I think we really do have something here, it's just going to take time and creativity to get it to where it needs to be.
Mahalo for the comment. I think we can look forward to businesses popping up here and there as rail gains ridership. I noticed a lot of food places along the rail, especially out toward Waipahu. And if they ever include vendors at the stations, it could be good business.
I live in metro Atlanta, and we have had rail (MARTA) since 1979. What you said about the novelty wearing off is so true! When it was first built, there were so many hopes that it would spawn transit oriented developments at each station, that it would be practical, convenient, etc. 44 years later, one of the biggest complaints about it is that it doesn’t go to enough places. Atlanta metro area is a massively sprawling metro region, and transit does not fix sprawl! Sure , it’s great to take it when there are large events taking place in downtown Atlanta. And it makes sense if you work in downtown (as I did in the late 1980’s). But transit has not fixed our enormous traffic problems. I’ve come to the conclusion that transit works best in small, dense areas but it won’t fix everything that it’s envisioned to.
That's the nice thing about Oahu though-- I think the chips are in place. People use other modes of transit way more than when I was a kid, and the sprawl is nothing compared to Atlanta. The busses also already have high ridership to begin with compared to most comparable US cities. There's also the political factor as well. It's great leverage. Once the rail has gone through town, that's the most expensive and difficult place it could possibly be built. After that's done, extensions will be way easier and more politically viable because the hard part is over.
Thank you for putting a positive spin on the future of the rail as I'm the only one in my group of friends that believe we would benefit from it. I used to live in NYC and hardly ever needed a car because of the subway trains. Hopefully Hawaii can make the rail project viable, sustainable and support the kamaaina.
Mahalo. I was skeptical at first, but having tried it, I'm seeing the potential. I know about the costs and potential future costs, but for what it is now, I think it's a moment we can celebrate...and then hope that it gets to Town soon. 😄
@@HelloFromHawaii I had to laugh at them taking a victory lap for getting the kapolei - stadium route open seven years late.🤣🤣🤣 “we're expecting instead of 2016 it will be 2017 for the first ten miles from East Kapolei to Aloha Stadium to open," said Grabauskas.” hawaii news now 3/7/2013
What they should have done and still could do is to put a chip in the Holo Cards to unlock the restroom doors. Just like the hotel rooms " Tap and Enter".
Suspect one of the reasons for restroom facilities is maybe/could be "Gathering Place" for homeless. Plus, don't think rail system was/is intended to run 24/7. Think it was meant to augment OTS bus lines, not replace it-IMO
Or if the security readers already have compatible technologies to interact with the HOLO cards, then it's just synchronizing the washroom security systems with the HOLO card system. There are security RF card readers that support 13.56 MHz protocols such as #MIFARE/#NFC-A and other ISO/IEC 14443 compliant protocols, #FeliCa/#NFC-F and other JIS X 6319-4 compliant protocols, etc. Even if the security readers don't have the technology to interact with HOLO cards, it would be more cost-effective and easier (in terms of DTS easily having access to and control of within their domain) to replace the readers instead of discontinuing support for existing HOLO cards and introduce new HOLO cards with security access RF support via complicated costly chips to interact with not only the security readers but also fare equipment IMO.
the reason why security is high on the luas.....I have SEEN homeless quickly intercepts the opened door as soon as a user exits the door. And they DO make a mess after "using" it. Remember also, thousands have been given out FREE so we dont know in "the crowds" who is homeless....
In Japan, every major stop has a tourist center. What is missing is information for bikes. There are bike racks to transfer bus to rail to bus. The rail was supposed to go to Salt Lake for more ridership.
I am a huge fan of rail transit having traveled extensively in Japan using their rail network. However, I don't ever see myself using our rail as it would nearly triple my commute time even though I live and work relatively close by to stations. Also, so far there has been no transit oriented development along the rail line. Yes, it'll probably eventually get built, but with housing being what it is here, it should have happened already not in 10-20+ years. One thing they got right though is including platform screen doors from the start. These offer a massive increase in passenger safety as well as efficiency gains as the system doesn't have to stop to remove the person or object on the tracks in addition to other benefits. I always enjoy your content! Keep up the good work!
The new rail system would provide locals more ridership once the rest of the phases are in place. Ideal would be to the airport, chinatown,, downtown, ala moana. As of now, yes, its exciting and its a novelty in the beginning with this new rail, but eventually, ridership will diminish due to the few stops.
I recently rode the Skytrain in Bangkok which is very similar to the Skyline in Oahu, and I can tell you that the rental properties near the stations will increase their rental rates! This is exactly what happened in Bangkok when new rail stations were built next to condominium high-rises. The convenience of having a rail station made the rental properties unaffordable to many average wage earners. In addition, you will see more expensive high-rises built along the Skyline routes.
I know this is late as the rail is up and running, but I always love your insights and suggestions. When I lived in Hawaii, I followed the history of the city/state trying to get it up and running. It was originally supposed to go to through Downtown and into the University, but many local groups opposed it so the system we have now is what we got. The original proposal of making it at ground level was more affordable and practical, but it was beat down for the elevated version (which was much more expensive and defeated the purpose of reducing traffic).
Thank you for your na'au. It was interesting when you were describing the rail. The inside design sounds just like the Vancouver Canada skyline (which I know was already disclosed) and I loved that skyline because you could get anywhere in Vancouver without needing a car. I also agree that there should be some attractions by the stations. I do hope in the long run that some of the stations will have unique small stores (like mom and pop shops or unique eateries in those areas).
The Honolulu Rail ….🤦🏻♀️. Hopefully they have lots of security cameras Especially due to vandalism. I’m glad the rails are wide and more space for people carrying luggage, groceries, etc. I agree ☝️ it’s a difficult sale for me on how much was spent on this project. Hopefully this will open more opportunities for housing expansion. Great tip on bathrooms and hopefully those excavators and elevators stay maintained. I agree those straps should be lowered for sure and address more parking for each stop. Appreciate your suggestions.
yesterday....after riding the rail, as soon as the rail ended around 6ish, seen 3 polynesian youngsters running in the rail nearby the exits and one of them slips and "thinks" its funny....where is the parents of these 3??? oh yeah, just remembered.....they dont care.
I can understand the 'no public bathrooms' thing, there's a lot of bathrooms along the beach where they've taken the doors off of the stalls to prevent people from using/overdosing in them. Having to look for an attendant would be bothersome but if they could implement using the Holo card to be scanned at the restroom door and it unlocks would be a good workaround. As long as you have a balance, you can use the restrooms at the swipe of the card. About the bars being too high to reach, in the rare occurrence the train jerks, a taller person doesn't hit their head. It's a lability. A wider aisle makes for enough room for strollers and accessibility equipment- ADA requires at least 3ft of room for a wheelchairs to make a full rotation. I've seen a few clips of the rail and it already looks way nicer and kinder to more people with children or disabilities than other rail systems I've been on. I have a few friends that work for the T in Boston and those things are death traps.
In Portland Or many of the train stations have a crazy amount of stairs -deal breaker if you're running late- but they have elevators available as well. But yeah the stairs can be BRUTAL although doesn't seem to deter the riders. Cheap & fast it's worth it, at least it was there
@@HelloFromHawaii definitely you worry about them falling. Hopefully the escalators have quick repair & it's brand new so time will tell. Could be amazing tho down the road especially for Oahu.
Hawaii's potential is in active transportation and land use planning for affordable housing options go hand in hand. Building and connecting communities around transit can also bring local jobs to the area. Over 40 years ago, I remember sitting in rush hour traffic to get to school, but would take Da Bus home sometimes walking 2 miles to get home. I have been living in Los Angeles since then and have found ways to use bike/transit and reduce car trips which keeps me active and exercise and saves me lot thousands $$$ every year using multi-modal travel while finding freedom from sitting in a car for hours and the looming rush of fear to miss the rush hour traffic jams. Bicycle infrastructure is key to the success and including e-bikes are transformational. Hawaii should use this momentum to built street networks for bicyclists to safety get to and from town. It really isn't that far to get to places now with e-bikes even easier. BUT without safe space to ride, this can be a challenge. First mile, last mile transit, walk, bike planning including bike share can reduce vehicle miles traveled. Bus rapid transit between communities must go hand in hand. I travel to / from Hawaii to visit family and travel with a folding bike and a detachable carry on bag. I for one look forward to taking the bike path from the airport (and one day from HNL) to Halawa to hop on the Skyline to discover a new way with my Holo Holo card to find the best route via bike and Da Bus to Mililani and the North Shore without having to find a place to park the car at least for a while :D Open Street community events can support awareness how to use transit and to encourage the community to move on streets in a new way and to get outside of the car and more people to walk and bike and seeing roadways differently for people to safely include all road users and a healthy community into the future :D. CicLAvia! th-cam.com/video/cy5gITeHA00/w-d-xo.html
Personally, for myself coming from Central Oahu, don't really see myself utilizing Skyline, regularly. At present, if/when have business to attend to, I just hop on #52 coz most my business is between Chinatown/Ala Moana area. Right now, I try to avoid trekking to "Town side", mainly coz of traffic/road construction! For example, had to take care of business around Bishop/Alakea & once got off H-1, from OCCC to HCC, felt like it took >45mins.! That stretch of Dillingham seemed like chiropractor/PT Dream! And, as someone having low back/mobility issues, That was Not an Enjoyable, but thoroughly Memorable, Experience! As I've mentioned before, Don't see myself being Regular rider, in foreseeable future....
9:48, Sometimes in different stations the parking is free, but gonna pay and that's also my cons. They need to build more parking lot, so that they have some good parking.
Id like to think they had wide spacing within the cars, the same way the standard for Building/house doors is 30-32in which was made standard for walker and wheelchair accessibility plus practical use like luggage like you said. plus the bus is wide to accommodate for standing room also. I've ridden the JR Yamanote lines before in Tokyo and Id hoped the rail was something similar.
The cars are definitely wide enough for walkers and wheelchairs. The gaps between the rail cars and the platforms was also pretty tight so it should be easy to get on and off. I didn't measure the distance at each station, but it seemed to be okay.
I used to think that BART in the SF Bay Area was really good. Then I rode the trains in Paris and Tokyo, no comparison. They are way better and much more expansive. So that's the key to HRT, what do they have planned for making it more robust? Since Oahu is small by comparison to the above mentioned systems in their respective cites, I don't think it will be as complicated unless the Hawaii folks want to make it complicated. BTW, I also rode the train system in NYC and though it is larger than BART, IMHO, BART was better.
Thank you Hello for your in-depth response to the issue of the rail . You right on the mark on the stairs. I would not even , we’ll it’ll take a while to take them stairs . I know I’d make it to the top , but I’d probably just miss the train 😢. Oh well … and gotta get some code or something to enter the restroom. Can see a lot of unhappy people there . Yup , thanks for helping work out the nuts and bolts to make the rail better . 👍👍👍👍😁😁😁😁⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Thank you for reading it . I hope it makes some sort of sense , well if any . Anyway I hope for the best outcome for everybody , and have a good ride . Thank you Hello. 😁😁🤙🤙
Great video Mahalo. They could get employers to offer incentives to employees to take the rail instead of driving to work and give them an allowance if they do so, essentially the employer pays the employees to ride the rail🤷♀️
HART made a mistake by building from nowhere to Ala Moana. They should have started building from UH out to Waipahu. The idea was to get the UH students off of H-1 to reduce car traffic. More people will ride rail from populated areas instead of from nowhere. Yes, putting rail in unpopulated areas has huge potential but what is the time frame? Rail needs to provide service to the most people that it can now, not in some future time.
I wish they had started at Ala Moana and worked toward the west side. At least we'd be able to use it in town. Imagine going from downtown to Ala Moana on the rail. Could be nice.
@@HelloFromHawaii It's because building in town is the most difficult, disruptive part of the operation and they didn't figure it would take ten years and billions just to get where they are today. Now they hard part starts and nobody's riding the rail because it doesn't go where most people do. Typical Hawaii mistake. I hate to say people in charge here are dumb, but...what else can you say?
Local braddah living in Japan here. As you know, the Japan train system is second to none in the world. With that said, I’m gonna say that Hawaiians should be outraged for the amount of time and money they spent for an average product. Let’s start with the stations, of course we all know that having no public restrooms is ridiculous. Totally unacceptable. Also, I didn’t see any kiosks or convenience stores inside the stations that can sell small kine stuff to commuters. I think that’s an opportunity lost. Since Hawaii is an international destination, I didn’t see any other languages or signs at the stations or on the rail. A lot of Asian tourists that don’t speak English come to Hawaii wouldn’t you want to have their language included? I don’t know if the HOLO card machines are only in English. As for the Rail itself, it’s very basic. I’m surprised there was no digital monitors or any space for advertising. Again, for as much this project costs I was something more higher tech. In Tokyo, you have monitors on board and you can see where you’re at on a map. Not on this! Another thing I would like to point out is the hours of operation. Why until 7PM? Why not 9PM? Lastly, I know this will eventually go into town but this is embarrassing they couldn’t complete this fully. I think they opened it to appease locals because it’s taking way too long. I know this is pretty much a rant but with what the Hawaiian taxpayer paid for this is a disgrace. Per capita, this is the most expensive rail project in the world! There needs to be an investigation for fraud. I hope locals will use it to the fullest but I have a feeling there’s gonna be maintenance issues.
The last two stops on the west side (surrounded by new housing and University) are hopefully the model for the other 'empty' spots in the future. Great for commuting and for the students. As you mentioned, just walking is an issue for some lol, thats why most young people (on the west side anyway) have electric bikes now. Most high schoolers ride them now.. only contributing to poor walking skills I am sure. Students will do the same, that area is very safe, the rail sits between the University and the new housing. It wont be a door to door service for everyone, but getting 90% of the way there, cheaply, safely is a great thing. I am not sure its aimed at getting those in town out.. maybe closer to wet and wild? A different mall with the same shops? Family visits maybe? I think it is more about providing those in the West with an opportunity to get into town without a car, that commute can be tough.
@@HelloFromHawaii Growing up on the Waianae Coast, I hope that even a distant future westward extension takes the skyline as far as the Waianae Transit Center near Waianae Mall. Residents still struggle with Farrington highway being the only way in and out of the coast, with more accidents and water main breaks than usual routinely closing the highway for hours.
I think that the parking shouldn’t be worried about so much. The park and rides for the buses aren’t used much. What should be used around the train stations is taxis, Uber, and Lyft drivers should hang around the stations to take people to different locations.
You're right. I went yesterday and the aloha stadium parking didn't even fill up, and there was a lot of people there. I really think a lot of the park and ride criticism is overblown.
I don't know about the trains in Japan, but If this train is anything like the excellent Korean Rail system, it'll be fine. Other countries are good at trains.
Chris: Thank you for presenting a video that considers fairly the HART Skyline from as many perspectives as possible. I thought your review is quite generous as you could have easily been far more negatively biased, being a longtime resident of the Windward Side. I know my friends & former classmates who also live in Kāne’ohe, Kailua, & Waiāhole are still angered over having to oay for the system but not being directly served by it. What I appreciated most about your review is your emphasis on the Skyline’s potential. The free parking available at the 2 stations along the route (I think there are something like 1500 spaces in total) DO have to be managed well so that non-riders of the rail do not abuse the use of the limited spaces, but the free parking must also provide a really strong incentive for users to rail vs. drive, both for economization of cost as well as time. Not sure if this is still true; however, during my schooling days in the SF Bay Area, residents were very eager to rail because the parking was always free & managed well. This can work similarly for the Skykine limited parking, esp., as you indicated, after its novelty has worn off. Again, mahalo for being fair & forward-looking in your perspective!
Mahalo for your comment. I was a rail skeptic, but the fact is, any anger or resentment doesn't change that rail is here. Even those who won't ever ride it may someday have family that benefits from it. I agree that parking management will be key. I hope they are ready for that. It's generous that there are a lot of stalls, but those can fill up fast. I also hope they have a notification system to let people know if a parking lot is full. I'd hate to see people drive to a station only to have to turn back because no parking.
Enjoyed your thoughts on your rail system experience. I look forward to getting back out to O'ahu and not having to deal with the mess and chaos of all the construction of the rail, especially when driving through Waipahu and Pearl City. One thing I have a concern about in your comments is on developing ag land for more housing. Not sure where the land swap is going to occur. All too often, much of the best ag land is lost in that process and can never be recovered. Then, the cost of growing produce becomes even more expensive, because more has to be done to make less viable land capable of producing. Furthermore, it is in less accessible locations. I get your point that the potential is where current ag land exists, but they've got to be careful with that. From the capitalist perspective, that's where you should be buying land now for speculation cuz you'll be able to make choke money down the line. It WILL be in high demand eventually.
Mahalo for the comment. I'm not sure about the ag land development either. It's nice to see ag land so close to the rail. But it may be something worth considering down the road.
A big con at the moment is the puzzling operating pattern. Closing at 7pm leaves many potential trips off the table. I’ve read that once the airport section opens, it’ll transition to 5am-12am hours which is a lot better. The frequency of the trains doesn’t make sense to me. In a vacuum, every 10 minutes is not great, not terrible - but it squanders the investment in automated transit. In short, the stations and trains are PAINFULLY overbuilt and instead should’ve relied on the automation to provide the capacity - which is a shame because the project would have a lot more money to get into town at this point if the stations and trains weren’t needlessly massive. One final note: I am concerned about how closely the stations are to be spaced once it gets into town. Granted, the stations should be closer given the density, but they’ve made an overcorrection in my view that drives up costs and hurts the overall transit experience.
What I also see as an issue which we have in NYC is that homeless tend to ride the train and sleep just to get away from the elements and they find it safer than sleeping outside. Think with a lot of homeless people in waikiki you may also see this issue in Hawaii.
10:49, Yes they have advertisements in the train in Asia, Australia and Europe. Surprisingly, The US is not included, which is shocking (only in the train).
The Pearlridge station is literally right next to my workplace and I was excited to take advantage of the rail. But then I realized it only runs to 7:00PM! WTH. How about those that pau work around 6-6:30?
Informative video. Good input on pros. Cons are surprisingly good, on the luggage & straps, considering I've had friends, family that some at adult size was only 4 ft 10, so having them not able to get a seat and too short to reach the overhead rail or strap is dangerous, especially if they are sick, elderly, or emergency stop. Steps is good observation, plus for those with luggage, wheelchairs, walkers, or other stuff (bikes?) during rush hour. Bathrooms, yah, major concern for kids/elderly/sick. It's a major drawback, especially as time permits. We don't want it to be a Chinatown at each station. Parking & security, big problem about burglary, stolen cars, abandoned cars, hijacking so it's a potential con for riders. Advertising in rail cars, promising idea. I vaguely remember a time when I saw buses with advertising inside of buses, outside of rail or in stations to help. Keep up the excellent work. On the ag land/rail stations, toss up situation of improper use, but it's vision. Decades ago in Las Vegas, the spouse's gf & husband picked us up and took us around. One of the interesting things was we drove out to where there were roads but nothing and then I saw a banking machine in a paved lot. Nothing there, then the gf's husband explained it was to secure a future bank site by putting something there for customers to become accustomed. Later, when I moved to Leeward, I saw the same thing with a bank machine at the end of the shopping center. Time and vision. Kaneohe town used to end about where Star Market used to be and there wasn't really anything between the main drag and Kahekili. As we get older, the family grows, it's good to be the non-Honolulu center of our own community.
random thoughts: Neighborhoods sprout along rail nodes, add sparkling clean Toto washlets per station, able to use Holo card at local convenience store eg 7/11(for spam onigiri need) and see rail utility go up
As a former mainland South Bay commuter, the benefits to not getting behind the wheel of a car and crawling in traffic is tremendous. Your comments born of the convenience of train communting makes sense. Build it and they will come...
We'll see. I don't expect much ridership in the short-term. Once it goes to the airport, maybe a little bump in ridership. Hoping to see it make it to at least Aloha Tower.
I think one of the main concerns is security. On "The Bus" the driver is pretty much it. So being driverless that may be an issue. Random crime, graffiti, drunk & drugged up peeps probably. As far as the steps & things possibly breaking down, yeah problematic for the disabled but if your out of shape maybe it's time to get better. I go to Japan quite often, I see the elderly just handle it. Sometimes faster than me & my family. The restroom situation was probably partly a cut cost issue. In any case maintenance & security would have been a challenge. You would have to hire a full time attendant to keep it in order. For the amount of use in Japan's system the restrooms are kept pretty clean.
I think a pro for the Skyline for me is that I heard it connects to some college campus’ (UH West Oahu and Leeward CC) I go to Leeward so if it does go straight there this would be huge for me and other students who can’t drive and had to take a bus through traffic during morning school hours 😭
I simply can not believe that there was never a plan in place to take this all the way into Waikiki. They even scrapped the Ala Mona station which would have at least gotten it close enough to perhaps service the west end of Waikiki. It does not make sense! Does anyone know why this was never planned out? Airport to Waikiki traffic would have paid for the entire thing in a few decades.
This train system has been under discussion for decades, and the destinations have been changed a great many times. Yes, Waikiki was considered many times as the terminus and it's likely that will occur someday.
@@hebneh Thanks for the info. Yes after seeing this video and others on the opening of the system I looked into the politics of it all and it is amazing that it actually has come this far. Hopefully someday it will be complete, used, taken care of and a normal part of life on Oahu!
How long before the Rail become the solution to the homeless problem. In California the homeless ride the subway train all day until it's time to clean them. After the train is cleaned up the homeless have a clean place for the day.
I tried em today. Of course packed. And so all the people blocked my view of the opposite side i was sitting. I dont know when ill ever ride it for utility so im guessing rail will be empty once the initial thrill is gone.
We don’t have any ag land to “swap”, only encroachment. We do need Transit Oriented Design, which would increase density and amenities, access to resources and shopping at the transit station neighborhoods. This is all planned and being planned. But to urbanize or convert more ag land to residential is detrimental and against planning criteria. Not only because ag lands are essential, but because open space is very important to social well-being. Did you notice any ADA access issues? Asking because there will be watchdogs looking for accessibility violations (and ADA access is very important for public transit to properly service the community. Thank you for review and feedback. Appreciate the time taken and your thoughtfulness and realistic but optimistic approach. Advertisement is common but Hawai’i may have ordinances against it (beautification/preservation of non-ad space)? I can’t remember for public transit but that’s why we don’t have billboards. Advertising can help but is also considered a form of “media pollution” in some tourism economy-based destinations.
Mahalo for the comment. I'm not sure about the ADA issues. I believe they had representatives from certain groups to test out the accessibility. Elevators are big. The gaps between the platforms and rail cars seemed close.
11:30 The Bus only allows luggage that can be carried on your lap. This might be problematic if you're looking forward to catching a flight from HNL, once that station is open.
in the US the Americans with disabilities act requires alternatives to stairs for persons with mobility problems, such as elevators or ramps. The rail authority has consistently said since 2010 that there will be publicly available, secured bathrooms at every station. It wasn’t until just before opening that they were unable or unwilling to keep their word yet again. Then they backed off to what they said before after public outcry. “The city’s blueprints call for one unisex public restroom with one toilet at each of the 21 stations. And the restrooms at all but one station will be locked with access available only by contacting a station attendant.” Star Advertiser 7/12/2010
I’m glad it’s finally getting going but my concern is that the project was so mismanaged that almost no amount of ridership can ever recover the staggering cost. I really worry that the over $12.4 billion current cost (only God knows what it will really cost) will burden the residents of Oahu of so much debt that everything else will suffer. Much higher taxes will drive up rents, food and everything else and the C&C as well as the state will have to reduce funding of our schools, bus service and roadwork too. The continuation to the airport, Ala Moana and hopefully Waikiki is absolutely essential to ridership but I can’t image wheee the funding will come from. I pray for our civic leaders to find the wisdom so as to get us all out of this mess they themselves created.
The potential is actually more or less one of the biggest reasons why they built the rail. Look up "transit oriented development" for more info. Basically, if you build a rail system, developers jump at building commercial/residential developments along it because it's cheap at the time but has potential to become high value. There's plans to develop 11k units of housing near Ho'opili station already because of the rail. Also, as far as ridership goes, I think their estimate of initial 10k/day is probably accurate. The reason is because a lot of busses that used to go along that route are being changed into a rail transfer, so all those daily riders are going to be on rail (and one of those routes is the A bus, so it's kind of a lot). I don't really think most people expect people who drive to immediately switch to rail on day 1, and I don't think the City/County has any illusions about that either.
I'm looking forward to seeing what housing projects come through the pipeline around the stations. Could be a nice way to provide housing for Hawaii future generations.
@@kevinp8108 Possibly. It could also be cheaper due to the noise. If the convenience factor was true, then it would mean rail was at least a resounding success. I have a hard time believing all 50-70k units of housing are going to be high income, but I'd imagine some of them are for sure.
The Tokyo to Hokkaido bullet train project cost less than $5 billion dollars, including underwater bridges & a length of about 300 miles. Where did $10 billion dollars go on this 20 mile long Disneyland speed train?🤑
Big mistake not going to UH. As for cost I work for the University of Washington and its free to ride any public transportation.The UW pays for it. That should have been the main focus of the skyline. Big miss, but still get chance to make it right. It must go to the University!
I rode BART for over 25 years and know how convenient it is. I would smile as the train went by people stuck in their cars on the freeway. It might be cheaper for two people to drive, but parking where? In the City? Even back in 1984 it was way too expensive. For me, it was easier to take a nap and wake up at my stop and just walk into the building. I guess it all depends on your own personal situation, just like it will be for the Hawaii folks.
$3 per ride, transfers between bus and rail are free, $7.50 daily limit and $80 monthly limit on charges to holocard. I think they will also have some discounted fares such as seniors, students, child and handicapped.
Such the optimist! And valid points, too! BUT....here's the thing. I voted FOR rail way back when it was on the ballot, because we were told it was going to UH-Manoa, and that made a little sense. It seems that along the way, somehow that goal was pushed aside and revised to Ala Moana SC, and now, not even there. Can anyone say....SCAM? And once the rail started going, mostly through blank ag land in Kapolei, government officials (Mufi) could then say it was too late to stop since so many miles have already been built. MORE scam? Anyone who lives on the west side knows that when UH is in session traffic is bad. Reason? NO matter what times their classes start, students have to go early to hunt for public street parking since the structure at UH is not big enough. So, hundreds more cars on the road. Summer and winter breaks? It's really not that bad! Even government research showed that the rail will not alleviate traffic. So.....? There were, IMO, two possible tax funded solutions, both cheaper than rail. One: UH could partner with TheBus and offer FREE UH shuttles, maybe every half hour or so. Students can use their ID as a "pass," and stop at major hubs like Waianae, Waipahu, Pearl City, Aiea, and even from other areas like Kailua, Kaneohe, Waimanalo, Hawaii Kai, Waialae, Kaimuki, Downtown, Salt Lake, etc. covering major travel points. That would eliminate many cars from all the roads. Both my kids went to major D-1 schools on the mainland, and both campuses had such a shuttle system. Two: We could beef up the UH-West Oahu campus to keep west side students out west; say, from Aiea to Waianae, and thus eliminate traffic on H-1 to town. We could simply survey west side HS juniors and seniors on their intended majors, then customize the major offerings at UHWO to fit their needs (i.e., food service, nursing, teaching) and even offer some trade classes (plumbing, electrical, HVAC) like Honolulu CC. The younger population is moving out west simply because the homes are relatively cheaper there. It's time to prepare for their future and not force their kids to have to go to Manoa if they choose to stay home for college. At best, we could do both options so we cover residents from all parts of the island. Look, we all know what will happen to rail in the future. Same story we get over and over in Hawaii for high priced government projects. Maintenance will get too expensive, and we will have to shovel more money into the pit. Even when running perfectly, we will not break even. Are you ready, taxpayers? Or should I say, keiki? Prime examples: Aloha Stadium, Hawaii Convention Center, Honolulu Airport, State prison, etc. But hey, we are sure good at allowing multi-million dollar condos to be built, many in less than two years and on budget!
You noticed the difference between the public and private sectors. Govt could be as efficient as the private sector if it valued it's resources, but spending other people's money is much easier than spending your own. As for the changes to the plans as it's built? Private sector would hold people accountable for increased expenses that weren't planned for. Government just spends more money because the contractors involved will throw some of that money into campaign coffers for the politicians.
Mahalo for the comment. I think the suggestions you gave are great and could still be done. It would be nice for UH to partner with the bus system to get students to campus more directly. Also, I was hoping that UH West would expand to allow students on that side to stay on that side of the island.
Not gonna work. Only buss people may use the rail. Cars are efficient. I park in town at our office building… and being able to rush home in an emergency is critical. I can’t imagine trying to make my way to the station and then boarding when I need to be somewhere. Plus I got stops on the way home with kids so having a vehicle is too useful. But for buss people… can.
Yeah, riding rail would be tough with kids. Need the flexibility to drop off and pick up. But for those who don't have to worry about that, it might be viable once more stations open.
Another potential pro when the rail gets expanded is bypassing traffic. I can see locals using this that work or go school down town side but live on the west side taking the rail to save them the headache of morning and pau Hana traffic.
@rainman11 - many locals have not realized that property managers who own rentals near the rail station will increase their rental rates due to the convenience factor. Many locals would not be able to afford the rental increase and will have to move away. This is the curse of modernization!
@@kevinp8108oh we realize this. I mean it’s been happening even before the rail was done. Like Iam Tongi said, “priced out of paradise”. I have family as well that experienced this first hand and had to move to Washington.
Place a Hawaiian Homelands Casino at the Ka Makana Alii Mall at end of the line in Kapolei. That would get ridership up and provide Money for the Hawaiians to build homes so they can stay on the Islands.
10:3511:59 Great ideas, especially in the short term while segment 2 is under construction! Regarding real estate also, since #SkylineHNL is owned by DTS and inspired from the #Vancouver #SkyTrain in #Canada and other driverless automated steel-wheels-on-rails medium-capacity/light #metro systems worldwide (e.g. #metrotaipei's Yellow line, Copenhagen #metro, etc.), DTS could in the medium term also work with developers like what the #SkyTrain's transit agency, #TransLink, is doing and allow developers to build development on top of existing park-and-rides (including park-and-ride expansions) and other public-owned facilities including public-owned parking for new funding sources. Also, since there is nothing currently planned for #Skyline to #alamoana, with the new funding sources, if #HART and DTS aren't using a method for project planning and execution used in other cities worldwide already, #HART and DTS could use a new approach on rail projects where projects use a parallel method in executing decision-making and other various processes likely similar to what other cities worldwide are using over a linear process so there are less chances of delays and other problems related to using the linear process. E.g. planning and land acquisition processes begins immediately while design and other aspects have more time to be polished. Especially in preparing and funding not only #Skyline to #alamoana but also beyond such as #UHManoa and #Waikiki. #HART and DTS could also work with entities such as #AlaMoanaCenter's owner Brookfield Properties, #UHManoa, #Waikiki businesses and resorts, and more on #Skyline east extensions (land, deals, etc.).
Don't think the State hasn't already projected out for many decades their plan to develop those areas you envisioned being converted. They will. Everything a State does is to make money for its investors and their families. They plan far into future with every step they take.
What? Everything a state does is to make money for it's investors and their families? What evidence do you have for that? You will never recoup the cost of this rail system. It will always be a drain on the states budget and for just a few that are benefitted. The reason people have such a tough time affording living in the state is because they do nothing for it's taxpayers. Even with federal transportation money or green energy grants the rail will be a nonstop theif of limited tax dollars. How does that benefit the residents?
@@Steve-oo7vv it doesn’t. I think lovevanillarose is referring to the politicians, the politically well connected, cronies, real estate developers, land owners, contractors, construction firms, unions, offshore investors, realtors, etc. Not the average Hawaiian citizen.
@@gsn794 That's exactly what I mean! Thank you for understanding. Everything for everyone you just listed, and nothing for average humble people of Hawaii. This has been the track record for hundreds of years now. It's not ever going to change.
Your review although somewhat positive was overshadowed by the legitimate negative facts you mentioned like lack of bathroom facilities, too few people find the rail useful, parking issues and many stairways in case elevators breakdown. Tulsi Gabbard focused her comments on the elevated rail had no bathrooms at the stations/stops, 130% cost overruns and the rail ends nowhere in a vacant area. Relying on the potential for the rail is like hoping inflation will be better tomorrow and government deficits will someday disappear.
Well, I figure since we built it and the money is spent, we should try to enjoy it. I'm sure there will be issues, but this is what the public voted for when they elected certain politicians.
No big deal that there is no bathrooms on HART. BART stations in the Bay Area have bathrooms, they are always out of service or not allowed to use them, for security, the ones you can use, there is always a homeless person hanging out inside, good luck waiting half an hour. Most of the time public bathrooms are not working and dirty. No one use anyway.
"Beautiful views of the West Side" is a contradiction in terms, no? Kind of like "Jumbo Shrimp". Brown landscape and "scenic" views of apartment blocks and ticky-tacky housing? Mufi Hanneman's folly.
@@HelloFromHawaii “The same rates would apply to riders of the city’s $9.2 billion rail line when it becomes reality under an integrated fare structure the commission also agreed on. Rail’s initial segment from East Kapolei to Aloha Stadium is scheduled to open by the end of the year. While the commission’s proposal calls for riders to pay more, it is projected to bring in less revenue than a recommended fare box recovery ratio policy of 25% to 30% of costs. So taxpayers would still be paying for more than 75% of TheBus (and rail combined) operations.” Star Advertiser 2/16/2020 “The rail system is now expected to cost the city $94 million to operate in its first year, including $54 million paid to the rail’s operator, Hitachi Rail Honolulu, according to Roger Morton, the city’s Transportation Services director.” Civil Beat 5/10/2023 Maximum possible revenue if they hit their 10k rides per day target, assuming you ignore daily and monthly limits on charges to holo card, and all discounted fares such as senior, student, child and handicapped is about $11 million. 10,000 X $3 X 365 = $10,950,000. $94 - $11 = $83 million taxpayer subsidy in year 1. Roughly $227k per day.
The only subway system in the US that supports itself is the one in NYC. It is probably the only one that can, but the peculiar issues of Hawaii might play in its favor in this case.
HR, formerly known as HART (as in BART in SFO) could provide some of the benefits that HFH cites, e.g. destination travel and development around stations. But this would require a change in mindset from car culture. The bathroom fiasco is a corollary of the homeless problem. One hopes there will be no vandalism... All this said, remember that HART was started in 1977 under Frank Fasi and has been mired by politics ever since. Here we are 50 years later, billions and billions of dollars, and still only half done. Lastly, while the Hawaiian station names are interesting, wouldn't it have been better to name a locality, i.e. Pearlridge Center, Leeward Community College, etc. so riders know where to get off? That's how it's done everywhere else. And what about bus connections from the stations?
The stations have both names. And I think when people ride it, they will probably refer to the stations by location rather than the given name. We'll see if it ever picks up.
Does Japan's trains have a "human" conductor? According to my son, who is a city bus driver, the train is controlled by the "main terminal." Is it called "AI" operated?
i grew up in kobe and rode the Rokko Liner from the mainland to Rokko Island for school... these monorails had no conductors... but the trains on the mainland of japan, those do have conductors... same with the bullet trains
A lot of big subway systems around the world run without human conductors/engineers now. The only real trick it has to do is stop if something is on the tracks. Speeding up, slowing down, and stopping at predisposed points are all things that have been done in industrial settings for years.
@@HelloFromHawaii “The plan also includes $2.7 billion for mass-transit projects, including $2.5 billion for a fixed-rail system between Kapolei and Manoa.” Star Bulletin 2/19/2006 “Although the vision of rail that captured the public’s imagination was a 28-mile line running from Kapolei to the University of Hawai‘i at Manoa, it turns out that the city can only afford to build a smaller section of that line, 20 miles long.” Honolulu Magazine 3/1/2007 Only took them one year to forget about Oahu’s single largest source of traffic and pivot to “transit oriented development.”
I don’t understand what exactly you’re looking for. Median housing is already $1M. Housing on the west side in any developed area is $1M. So how cheap do you want it to be? Housing prices in Hawaii never go down. They just rise slower. Regarding the bathroom issue, these are not cross country trains where you wait in a train station for hours for your train. Think of it more like an elevated bus. Are there bathrooms at bus stops? No. How do you prepare for that? You plan ahead. If you continue to limit yourself to only town and Kailua, those are the prices you are going to pay. I live in Kunia. My drive into town is shorter than the drive from Kailua so it’s really up to you. You have to make the choice. Don’t expect it to get handed to you.
Some of the housing prices on the west side are relatively cheap and below the $1 million median price. But I'm also talking about condo developments that could be built around the stations. $300Ks for one-bedrooms. Starting somewhere around there.
@808lublabs4 - property values will increase for houses and condos near the rail stations. This will mean that landlords will increase rental rates so high many locals will not be able to afford it.
because according to rail’s own final EIS, table 3-12, it will only reduce traffic by 1.7% vs the no build option. Daily car trips without rail in 2030, after 10 full years of full time operation of the Kapolei to Ala Moana route (yes, the contractually obligated opening date for the full 20 miles is 1/31/2020) is 2,815,800. With rail it’s 2,767,600, 48,200 trips less, or expressed as a percentage, 1.7%. Looked at another way, rail will allegedly remove 17 out of every 1000 cars on the road. Probably not noticeable. Other problems: the now shortened route is still going to cost just shy of $10 billion, nearly double the contractually obligated $5.12 billion, as well as being at least 11 years late. Finishing the original, full 20 miles will be later still. “ridership on the rail system under the truncated FFGA scope is expected to be about 84,000 weekday riders,” (6/30/2022 “recovery” plan) down from 116k riders, so the traffic reduction will actually be lower. Completing the rail to Ala Moana will cost $11.3 billion, meaning the final 1.2 miles will actually cost $1.37 billion, or an almost unbelievable $1.14 billion per mile.
@HelloFromHawaii Perhaps you could put together a list of achievable suggestions for increasing ridership in both the short and long term. Your ideas seemed logical and insightful.
Hi Chris, this is Jess here again. I was wondering if at any point the rail goes underground ? I live in Chicago, we got 4 different rails, the green, red, purple , yellow lines , it's not that bad. What I can't understand, why it took so long for the rail in Hawaii to be finished, a lot of people are stipulating that many local politicians got rich off it, I understand the Feds investigated the construction and the big wheel involved with it . I imagine you get to see many nice picturesque sites, as well as the Hawaiian ghettos , we got them here in Chicago too🤣
@@HelloFromHawaii I can understand why it wouldn't go underground, although it would be nice if a train could be built from Honolulu to Chicago, 😄jejeje. However, I was disappointed that it only serves the beautiful people, Ewa, Waikiki, Honolulu and Diamond head, it doesn't go around the island or in between. When I do get to Oahu, I'm hoping to live on the North shore. Mahalo.
Cause he’s an influencer, and they expected him to say nice things about it probably. Or he just knew someone. These things do test runs of one sort or another for a bit before opening to get the kinks out.
@@HelloFromHawaii did you have to sign a waiver? “Members of the media were required to sign a waiver agreeing not to sue if something went wrong on the preview ride leading to bodily injury, property damage, permanent disability or death.” Civil Beat 6/25/2023
Bathrooms. How long are the spaces between stations? We get into a car and drive for hours with little regard for bathroom breaks. Stop at a convenience store or gas station, and guess what? You gotta ask for a key most times. Seems like the same situation with the train here. Just a little planning ahead ( pee before) and you should have nothing to worry about. I feel like this is one of those complaints just to complain.
Looks like a lot of people tried the Honolulu Skyline Rail this weekend. Looking forward to seeing future ridership numbers and what the City does to keep the momentum going until other stations can be completed.
The farmers market at various stations is a great idea. Parking once and visiting multiple markets is very appealing.
Yeah, hopefully they do something like that. Doesn't need to be every weekend, but maybe once a month or once every two months.
Having at least monthly events at or near the stations is a fantastic idea to keep people using Skyline after the opening weekend hype. As of now, the two stations that will get the most use on their own are the Pearlridge Center and Aloha Stadium stations (for the last two weekends of the Fair, and the Aloha Flea market swap meet three times a week.). Maybe an outdoor food and craft fair in East Kapolei stretching from the UH West Oahu station to Ka Makana Ali'i Mall could work?
I lived in LA when they first built the Metro. It got a lot of hate back then too because there were only 2 lines and they didn’t even meet. But you have to start somewhere, and now it goes all over and is widely used. If you ever travel, many major cities around the world have a rail system.
yea i've used the Santa Monica line & it does work pretty good. Also, helps ppl get out of their cars & walking is more healthy. I have doubts the state will ever have enough money to expand to UH Manoa & Waikiki w/o help from the feds lol. But not getting to UH and Waikiki won’t maximize the potential of rail.
🤙 It has to start somewhere.
I was born and raised on Oahu, but now live in LA. I've used their various LA Metro Rail lines to Santa Monica and Pasadena. They just opened a regional connector project two weeks before Skyline opened, which allows two light rail lines to travel under downtown LA, eliminating transfers to the subway. They have a grade separated busway called the Metro G line across the suburban San Fernando Valley that works pretty well too.
"Widely used" my foot. The Manhattan subways are "widely used." I went from riding Manhattan subways for two weeks, then travelled directly to LA, stayed on Hollywood Blvd for another 2 weeks and took their rail and it was nearly EMPTY. I rode the LA rail day and night, weekdays and weekends and it was HARDLY used. Cars were largely EMPTY. This was in 2019 BEFORE COVID.
A fair assessment. I think you hit the key word which is potential. I would also say another key word is opportunity. There is a lot of potential and opportunity for local small businesses to start popping up near the rail stations. Maybe it's food trucks and mobile bathrooms at first and then if successful, possibly building permanent businesses where zoning allows.
I really liked your idea of local farmer's markets, craft fairs or similar events as a great way to keep the interest and usage more consistent while we're all waiting for additional stations to come online.
Having lived in the DC area for almost 8 years before moving back to O'ahu, I came to rely on the DC Metro trains "metro" for work and play. I think we really do have something here, it's just going to take time and creativity to get it to where it needs to be.
Mahalo for the comment. I think we can look forward to businesses popping up here and there as rail gains ridership. I noticed a lot of food places along the rail, especially out toward Waipahu. And if they ever include vendors at the stations, it could be good business.
You will see rental properties near the rail stations increase their rental rates sky high!
I live in metro Atlanta, and we have had rail (MARTA) since 1979. What you said about the novelty wearing off is so true! When it was first built, there were so many hopes that it would spawn transit oriented developments at each station, that it would be practical, convenient, etc. 44 years later, one of the biggest complaints about it is that it doesn’t go to enough places. Atlanta metro area is a massively sprawling metro region, and transit does not fix sprawl! Sure , it’s great to take it when there are large events taking place in downtown Atlanta. And it makes sense if you work in downtown (as I did in the late 1980’s). But transit has not fixed our enormous traffic problems. I’ve come to the conclusion that transit works best in small, dense areas but it won’t fix everything that it’s envisioned to.
That's the nice thing about Oahu though-- I think the chips are in place. People use other modes of transit way more than when I was a kid, and the sprawl is nothing compared to Atlanta. The busses also already have high ridership to begin with compared to most comparable US cities.
There's also the political factor as well. It's great leverage. Once the rail has gone through town, that's the most expensive and difficult place it could possibly be built. After that's done, extensions will be way easier and more politically viable because the hard part is over.
Thank you for putting a positive spin on the future of the rail as I'm the only one in my group of friends that believe we would benefit from it. I used to live in NYC and hardly ever needed a car because of the subway trains. Hopefully Hawaii can make the rail project viable, sustainable and support the kamaaina.
Mahalo. I was skeptical at first, but having tried it, I'm seeing the potential. I know about the costs and potential future costs, but for what it is now, I think it's a moment we can celebrate...and then hope that it gets to Town soon. 😄
@@HelloFromHawaii I had to laugh at them taking a victory lap for getting the kapolei - stadium route open seven years late.🤣🤣🤣
“we're expecting instead of 2016 it will be 2017 for the first ten miles from East Kapolei to Aloha Stadium to open," said Grabauskas.” hawaii news now 3/7/2013
What they should have done and still could do is to put a chip in the Holo Cards to unlock the restroom doors. Just like the hotel rooms " Tap and Enter".
That's a good idea.
Suspect one of the reasons for restroom facilities is maybe/could be "Gathering Place" for homeless. Plus, don't think rail system was/is intended to run 24/7. Think it was meant to augment OTS bus lines, not replace it-IMO
Or if the security readers already have compatible technologies to interact with the HOLO cards, then it's just synchronizing the washroom security systems with the HOLO card system. There are security RF card readers that support 13.56 MHz protocols such as #MIFARE/#NFC-A and other ISO/IEC 14443 compliant protocols, #FeliCa/#NFC-F and other JIS X 6319-4 compliant protocols, etc. Even if the security readers don't have the technology to interact with HOLO cards, it would be more cost-effective and easier (in terms of DTS easily having access to and control of within their domain) to replace the readers instead of discontinuing support for existing HOLO cards and introduce new HOLO cards with security access RF support via complicated costly chips to interact with not only the security readers but also fare equipment IMO.
the reason why security is high on the luas.....I have SEEN homeless quickly intercepts the opened door as soon as a user exits the door. And they DO make a mess after "using" it. Remember also, thousands have been given out FREE so we dont know in "the crowds" who is homeless....
In Japan, every major stop has a tourist center.
What is missing is information for bikes. There are bike racks to transfer bus to rail to bus.
The rail was supposed to go to Salt Lake for more ridership.
There are bike racks on the rail. I stood across one. Not sure how it works, but shouldn't be a problem for riders.
@@HelloFromHawaii Hope elevator's big to hold bikes, people, and luggages
Going to the Airport got priority on the routing. Have city do a shuttle bus between Salt Lake and Airport Station
In 2008, Switching rail from Salt Lake increased cost by $220 million to $4.5 billion
@@kelvinyschun Elevator is more than enough space.
I am a huge fan of rail transit having traveled extensively in Japan using their rail network. However, I don't ever see myself using our rail as it would nearly triple my commute time even though I live and work relatively close by to stations. Also, so far there has been no transit oriented development along the rail line. Yes, it'll probably eventually get built, but with housing being what it is here, it should have happened already not in 10-20+ years.
One thing they got right though is including platform screen doors from the start. These offer a massive increase in passenger safety as well as efficiency gains as the system doesn't have to stop to remove the person or object on the tracks in addition to other benefits.
I always enjoy your content! Keep up the good work!
Mahalo for the comment. I was surprised at some of the features they included. Hope the maintenance can be kept up.
The new rail system would provide locals more ridership once the rest of the phases are in place. Ideal would be to the airport, chinatown,, downtown, ala moana. As of now, yes, its exciting and its a novelty in the beginning with this new rail, but eventually, ridership will diminish due to the few stops.
I recently rode the Skytrain in Bangkok which is very similar to the Skyline in Oahu, and I can tell you that the rental properties near the stations will increase their rental rates! This is exactly what happened in Bangkok when new rail stations were built next to condominium high-rises. The convenience of having a rail station made the rental properties unaffordable to many average wage earners. In addition, you will see more expensive high-rises built along the Skyline routes.
I'm hoping that they build now before the rail is connected to town. At least the value will be lower than when it is fully connected.
I know this is late as the rail is up and running, but I always love your insights and suggestions. When I lived in Hawaii, I followed the history of the city/state trying to get it up and running. It was originally supposed to go to through Downtown and into the University, but many local groups opposed it so the system we have now is what we got. The original proposal of making it at ground level was more affordable and practical, but it was beat down for the elevated version (which was much more expensive and defeated the purpose of reducing traffic).
I think they should also build Bus rapid Transit between the Airport and Downtown
Thank you for your na'au. It was interesting when you were describing the rail. The inside design sounds just like the Vancouver Canada skyline (which I know was already disclosed) and I loved that skyline because you could get anywhere in Vancouver without needing a car.
I also agree that there should be some attractions by the stations. I do hope in the long run that some of the stations will have unique small stores (like mom and pop shops or unique eateries in those areas).
I hope they figure that out too. I'd like to see each station have a mini "culture" around it. Things that would interest local people.
The Honolulu Rail ….🤦🏻♀️. Hopefully they have lots of security cameras Especially due to vandalism. I’m glad the rails are wide and more space for people carrying luggage, groceries, etc. I agree ☝️ it’s a difficult sale for me on how much was spent on this project. Hopefully this will open more opportunities for housing expansion. Great tip on bathrooms and hopefully those excavators and elevators stay maintained. I agree those straps should be lowered for sure and address more parking for each stop. Appreciate your suggestions.
Hopefully people give it a chance. Given the cost and what it will cost in the future to complete and maintain, might as well enjoy it. 😁
@@HelloFromHawaiiI live in Hawaii Kai… so I’ll never enjoy it😂. But I’m paying lol. Jk, jk…. Seriously😊
I'm just wondering how long until every station is tagged with graffiti art.
yesterday....after riding the rail, as soon as the rail ended around 6ish, seen 3 polynesian youngsters running in the rail nearby the exits and one of them slips and "thinks" its funny....where is the parents of these 3??? oh yeah, just remembered.....they dont care.
The open and connected cars is also a safety feature. You can run if fire or an attacker is in a car. Like that joker knife attacker in Tokyo.
I can understand the 'no public bathrooms' thing, there's a lot of bathrooms along the beach where they've taken the doors off of the stalls to prevent people from using/overdosing in them. Having to look for an attendant would be bothersome but if they could implement using the Holo card to be scanned at the restroom door and it unlocks would be a good workaround. As long as you have a balance, you can use the restrooms at the swipe of the card. About the bars being too high to reach, in the rare occurrence the train jerks, a taller person doesn't hit their head. It's a lability. A wider aisle makes for enough room for strollers and accessibility equipment- ADA requires at least 3ft of room for a wheelchairs to make a full rotation. I've seen a few clips of the rail and it already looks way nicer and kinder to more people with children or disabilities than other rail systems I've been on. I have a few friends that work for the T in Boston and those things are death traps.
Mahalo for sharing. Great idea about the Holo card being used as a restroom pass. I think that would be a great solution.
In Portland Or many of the train stations have a crazy amount of stairs -deal breaker if you're running late- but they have elevators available as well. But yeah the stairs can be BRUTAL although doesn't seem to deter the riders. Cheap & fast it's worth it, at least it was there
Those stairs are tough. When I rode it, I had to take the stairs down. Again, not too bad for me, but for kupuna, it could be tough.
@@HelloFromHawaii definitely you worry about them falling. Hopefully the escalators have quick repair & it's brand new so time will tell. Could be amazing tho down the road especially for Oahu.
Hawaii's potential is in active transportation and land use planning for affordable housing options go hand in hand. Building and connecting communities around transit can also bring local jobs to the area. Over 40 years ago, I remember sitting in rush hour traffic to get to school, but would take Da Bus home sometimes walking 2 miles to get home. I have been living in Los Angeles since then and have found ways to use bike/transit and reduce car trips which keeps me active and exercise and saves me lot thousands $$$ every year using multi-modal travel while finding freedom from sitting in a car for hours and the looming rush of fear to miss the rush hour traffic jams.
Bicycle infrastructure is key to the success and including e-bikes are transformational. Hawaii should use this momentum to built street networks for bicyclists to safety get to and from town. It really isn't that far to get to places now with e-bikes even easier. BUT without safe space to ride, this can be a challenge. First mile, last mile transit, walk, bike planning including bike share can reduce vehicle miles traveled. Bus rapid transit between communities must go hand in hand. I travel to / from Hawaii to visit family and travel with a folding bike and a detachable carry on bag. I for one look forward to taking the bike path from the airport (and one day from HNL) to Halawa to hop on the Skyline to discover a new way with my Holo Holo card to find the best route via bike and Da Bus to Mililani and the North Shore without having to find a place to park the car at least for a while :D
Open Street community events can support awareness how to use transit and to encourage the community to move on streets in a new way and to get outside of the car and more people to walk and bike and seeing roadways differently for people to safely include all road users and a healthy community into the future :D. CicLAvia! th-cam.com/video/cy5gITeHA00/w-d-xo.html
Personally, for myself coming from Central Oahu, don't really see myself utilizing Skyline, regularly. At present, if/when have business to attend to, I just hop on #52 coz most my business is between Chinatown/Ala Moana area. Right now, I try to avoid trekking to "Town side", mainly coz of traffic/road construction! For example, had to take care of business around Bishop/Alakea & once got off H-1, from OCCC to HCC, felt like it took >45mins.! That stretch of Dillingham seemed like chiropractor/PT Dream! And, as someone having low back/mobility issues, That was Not an Enjoyable, but thoroughly Memorable, Experience! As I've mentioned before, Don't see myself being Regular rider, in foreseeable future....
The construction on Dillingham right now is pretty crazy. I tried driving there, but had to turn off because it was taking too long. 😆
9:48, Sometimes in different stations the parking is free, but gonna pay and that's also my cons. They need to build more parking lot, so that they have some good parking.
I enjoyed listening to your insight. I think I will give it a ride one weekend and take in the sights.
Mahalo for the comment. Enjoy the ride 🤙
Id like to think they had wide spacing within the cars, the same way the standard for Building/house doors is 30-32in which was made standard for walker and wheelchair accessibility plus practical use like luggage like you said. plus the bus is wide to accommodate for standing room also. I've ridden the JR Yamanote lines before in Tokyo and Id hoped the rail was something similar.
The cars are definitely wide enough for walkers and wheelchairs. The gaps between the rail cars and the platforms was also pretty tight so it should be easy to get on and off. I didn't measure the distance at each station, but it seemed to be okay.
I used to think that BART in the SF Bay Area was really good. Then I rode the trains in Paris and Tokyo, no comparison. They are way better and much more expansive. So that's the key to HRT, what do they have planned for making it more robust? Since Oahu is small by comparison to the above mentioned systems in their respective cites, I don't think it will be as complicated unless the Hawaii folks want to make it complicated. BTW, I also rode the train system in NYC and though it is larger than BART, IMHO, BART was better.
I'm not sure about future plans of expansion of rail on Oahu. It would be nice to get a route to UH Manoa or Waikiki one day.
Mahalo for sharing your thoughts and views regarding the new rail system. 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
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Thank you Hello for your in-depth response to the issue of the rail . You right on the mark on the stairs. I would not even , we’ll it’ll take a while to take them stairs . I know I’d make it to the top , but I’d probably just miss the train 😢. Oh well … and gotta get some code or something to enter the restroom. Can see a lot of unhappy people there . Yup , thanks for helping work out the nuts and bolts to make the rail better . 👍👍👍👍😁😁😁😁⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Hopefully the rail gets better over time. Also hope they can maintain it.
Thank you for reading it . I hope it makes some sort of sense , well if any . Anyway I hope for the best outcome for everybody , and have a good ride . Thank you Hello. 😁😁🤙🤙
Happy Fourth of July !!!❤️hello
Great video Mahalo. They could get employers to offer incentives to employees to take the rail instead of driving to work and give them an allowance if they do so, essentially the employer pays the employees to ride the rail🤷♀️
I believe Pearl Harbor Shipyard is providing an incentive to ride it. We'll see if other businesses follow.
HART made a mistake by building from nowhere to Ala Moana. They should have started building from UH out to Waipahu. The idea was to get the UH students off of H-1 to reduce car traffic. More people will ride rail from populated areas instead of from nowhere.
Yes, putting rail in unpopulated areas has huge potential but what is the time frame? Rail needs to provide service to the most people that it can now, not in some future time.
I wish they had started at Ala Moana and worked toward the west side. At least we'd be able to use it in town. Imagine going from downtown to Ala Moana on the rail. Could be nice.
@@HelloFromHawaii It's because building in town is the most difficult, disruptive part of the operation and they didn't figure it would take ten years and billions just to get where they are today. Now they hard part starts and nobody's riding the rail because it doesn't go where most people do. Typical Hawaii mistake. I hate to say people in charge here are dumb, but...what else can you say?
@HelloFromHawaii Where would they have put the rail yard and parked the trains and maintained them if they did downtown first?
@@WilliamMurphy-b6v Keehi Lagoon Beach Park would be one possibility. Current Skyline Operations Center would only use a small part of the park.
@@sidku7006 Interesting possibility. Thanks for the thought.
Local braddah living in Japan here. As you know, the Japan train system is second to none in the world. With that said, I’m gonna say that Hawaiians should be outraged for the amount of time and money they spent for an average product. Let’s start with the stations, of course we all know that having no public restrooms is ridiculous. Totally unacceptable. Also, I didn’t see any kiosks or convenience stores inside the stations that can sell small kine stuff to commuters. I think that’s an opportunity lost. Since Hawaii is an international destination, I didn’t see any other languages or signs at the stations or on the rail. A lot of Asian tourists that don’t speak English come to Hawaii wouldn’t you want to have their language included? I don’t know if the HOLO card machines are only in English.
As for the Rail itself, it’s very basic. I’m surprised there was no digital monitors or any space for advertising. Again, for as much this project costs I was something more higher tech. In Tokyo, you have monitors on board and you can see where you’re at on a map. Not on this! Another thing I would like to point out is the hours of operation. Why until 7PM? Why not 9PM? Lastly, I know this will eventually go into town but this is embarrassing they couldn’t complete this fully. I think they opened it to appease locals because it’s taking way too long.
I know this is pretty much a rant but with what the Hawaiian taxpayer paid for this is a disgrace. Per capita, this is the most expensive rail project in the world! There needs to be an investigation for fraud. I hope locals will use it to the fullest but I have a feeling there’s gonna be maintenance issues.
The last two stops on the west side (surrounded by new housing and University) are hopefully the model for the other 'empty' spots in the future. Great for commuting and for the students.
As you mentioned, just walking is an issue for some lol, thats why most young people (on the west side anyway) have electric bikes now. Most high schoolers ride them now.. only contributing to poor walking skills I am sure. Students will do the same, that area is very safe, the rail sits between the University and the new housing.
It wont be a door to door service for everyone, but getting 90% of the way there, cheaply, safely is a great thing. I am not sure its aimed at getting those in town out.. maybe closer to wet and wild? A different mall with the same shops? Family visits maybe? I think it is more about providing those in the West with an opportunity to get into town without a car, that commute can be tough.
I'd hope that they extend it out toward the Kapolei shopping center. As it is now, it kind of just ends in the middle of nowhere.
@@HelloFromHawaii Growing up on the Waianae Coast, I hope that even a distant future westward extension takes the skyline as far as the Waianae Transit Center near Waianae Mall. Residents still struggle with Farrington highway being the only way in and out of the coast, with more accidents and water main breaks than usual routinely closing the highway for hours.
I think that the parking shouldn’t be worried about so much. The park and rides for the buses aren’t used much. What should be used around the train stations is taxis, Uber, and Lyft drivers should hang around the stations to take people to different locations.
I'm not sure about the ridesharing options. I didn't see any specific areas designated for that, but the Kiss & Ride area is pretty open.
@@HelloFromHawaii If i were the ridesharing just use those til they build areas specifically for ridesharing!
You're right. I went yesterday and the aloha stadium parking didn't even fill up, and there was a lot of people there. I really think a lot of the park and ride criticism is overblown.
I don't know about the trains in Japan, but If this train is anything like the excellent Korean Rail system, it'll be fine. Other countries are good at trains.
Chris: Thank you for presenting a video that considers fairly the HART Skyline from as many perspectives as possible. I thought your review is quite generous as you could have easily been far more negatively biased, being a longtime resident of the Windward Side. I know my friends & former classmates who also live in Kāne’ohe, Kailua, & Waiāhole are still angered over having to oay for the system but not being directly served by it. What I appreciated most about your review is your emphasis on the Skyline’s potential. The free parking available at the 2 stations along the route (I think there are something like 1500 spaces in total) DO have to be managed well so that non-riders of the rail do not abuse the use of the limited spaces, but the free parking must also provide a really strong incentive for users to rail vs. drive, both for economization of cost as well as time. Not sure if this is still true; however, during my schooling days in the SF Bay Area, residents were very eager to rail because the parking was always free & managed well. This can work similarly for the Skykine limited parking, esp., as you indicated, after its novelty has worn off. Again, mahalo for being fair & forward-looking in your perspective!
Mahalo for your comment. I was a rail skeptic, but the fact is, any anger or resentment doesn't change that rail is here. Even those who won't ever ride it may someday have family that benefits from it.
I agree that parking management will be key. I hope they are ready for that. It's generous that there are a lot of stalls, but those can fill up fast. I also hope they have a notification system to let people know if a parking lot is full. I'd hate to see people drive to a station only to have to turn back because no parking.
Do you have any thoughts on the other Hawaiian islands?
Enjoyed your thoughts on your rail system experience. I look forward to getting back out to O'ahu and not having to deal with the mess and chaos of all the construction of the rail, especially when driving through Waipahu and Pearl City. One thing I have a concern about in your comments is on developing ag land for more housing. Not sure where the land swap is going to occur. All too often, much of the best ag land is lost in that process and can never be recovered. Then, the cost of growing produce becomes even more expensive, because more has to be done to make less viable land capable of producing. Furthermore, it is in less accessible locations. I get your point that the potential is where current ag land exists, but they've got to be careful with that. From the capitalist perspective, that's where you should be buying land now for speculation cuz you'll be able to make choke money down the line. It WILL be in high demand eventually.
Mahalo for the comment. I'm not sure about the ag land development either. It's nice to see ag land so close to the rail. But it may be something worth considering down the road.
A big con at the moment is the puzzling operating pattern. Closing at 7pm leaves many potential trips off the table. I’ve read that once the airport section opens, it’ll transition to 5am-12am hours which is a lot better.
The frequency of the trains doesn’t make sense to me. In a vacuum, every 10 minutes is not great, not terrible - but it squanders the investment in automated transit. In short, the stations and trains are PAINFULLY overbuilt and instead should’ve relied on the automation to provide the capacity - which is a shame because the project would have a lot more money to get into town at this point if the stations and trains weren’t needlessly massive.
One final note: I am concerned about how closely the stations are to be spaced once it gets into town. Granted, the stations should be closer given the density, but they’ve made an overcorrection in my view that drives up costs and hurts the overall transit experience.
What I also see as an issue which we have in NYC is that homeless tend to ride the train and sleep just to get away from the elements and they find it safer than sleeping outside. Think with a lot of homeless people in waikiki you may also see this issue in Hawaii.
10:49, Yes they have advertisements in the train in Asia, Australia and Europe. Surprisingly, The US is not included, which is shocking (only in the train).
The Pearlridge station is literally right next to my workplace and I was excited to take advantage of the rail. But then I realized it only runs to 7:00PM! WTH. How about those that pau work around 6-6:30?
Informative video. Good input on pros. Cons are surprisingly good, on the luggage & straps, considering I've had friends, family that some at adult size was only 4 ft 10, so having them not able to get a seat and too short to reach the overhead rail or strap is dangerous, especially if they are sick, elderly, or emergency stop. Steps is good observation, plus for those with luggage, wheelchairs, walkers, or other stuff (bikes?) during rush hour. Bathrooms, yah, major concern for kids/elderly/sick. It's a major drawback, especially as time permits. We don't want it to be a Chinatown at each station. Parking & security, big problem about burglary, stolen cars, abandoned cars, hijacking so it's a potential con for riders. Advertising in rail cars, promising idea. I vaguely remember a time when I saw buses with advertising inside of buses, outside of rail or in stations to help. Keep up the excellent work. On the ag land/rail stations, toss up situation of improper use, but it's vision. Decades ago in Las Vegas, the spouse's gf & husband picked us up and took us around. One of the interesting things was we drove out to where there were roads but nothing and then I saw a banking machine in a paved lot. Nothing there, then the gf's husband explained it was to secure a future bank site by putting something there for customers to become accustomed. Later, when I moved to Leeward, I saw the same thing with a bank machine at the end of the shopping center. Time and vision. Kaneohe town used to end about where Star Market used to be and there wasn't really anything between the main drag and Kahekili. As we get older, the family grows, it's good to be the non-Honolulu center of our own community.
Mahalo for sharing. You brought up great points about car safety. Hopefully it's something they can monitor.
random thoughts: Neighborhoods sprout along rail nodes, add sparkling clean Toto washlets per station, able to use Holo card at local convenience store eg 7/11(for spam onigiri need) and see rail utility go up
As a former mainland South Bay commuter, the benefits to not getting behind the wheel of a car and crawling in traffic is tremendous. Your comments born of the convenience of train communting makes sense. Build it and they will come...
We'll see. I don't expect much ridership in the short-term. Once it goes to the airport, maybe a little bump in ridership. Hoping to see it make it to at least Aloha Tower.
Should have built it between the airport and downtown first
I think one of the main concerns is security. On "The Bus" the driver is pretty much it. So being driverless that may be an issue. Random crime, graffiti, drunk & drugged up peeps probably. As far as the steps & things possibly breaking down, yeah problematic for the disabled but if your out of shape maybe it's time to get better. I go to Japan quite often, I see the elderly just handle it. Sometimes faster than me & my family. The restroom situation was probably partly a cut cost issue. In any case maintenance & security would have been a challenge. You would have to hire a full time attendant to keep it in order. For the amount of use in Japan's system the restrooms are kept pretty clean.
I think they have security at the stations. Not sure how effective it will be, but it's there.
It cause it is summer. If you come in the wintertime it is green.❤❤
About 12 years now and STILL HALFWAY Done🫢.
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Don’t be too mad. It took NYC roughly 80 years to build a two mile stretch of subway
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 I’m hoping for the better outcome😊.
I don't like being in crowds can't wait until the Hype drops down.
I'm curious how the ridership numbers will look in a month.
I think a pro for the Skyline for me is that I heard it connects to some college campus’ (UH West Oahu and Leeward CC)
I go to Leeward so if it does go straight there this would be huge for me and other students who can’t drive and had to take a bus through traffic during morning school hours 😭
It does connect to UH West Oahu, which is great. LCC too.
@@HelloFromHawaii LETS GOOOOOOO 🙏✨
Should rail service be expanded into all of Oahu? What about rail service connecting Oahu to the other islands?
I simply can not believe that there was never a plan in place to take this all the way into Waikiki. They even scrapped the Ala Mona station which would have at least gotten it close enough to perhaps service the west end of Waikiki. It does not make sense! Does anyone know why this was never planned out? Airport to Waikiki traffic would have paid for the entire thing in a few decades.
Maybe they can extend it to Waikiki one day. That would be huge. Still, it's got to get to town first.
This train system has been under discussion for decades, and the destinations have been changed a great many times. Yes, Waikiki was considered many times as the terminus and it's likely that will occur someday.
@@hebneh Thanks for the info. Yes after seeing this video and others on the opening of the system I looked into the politics of it all and it is amazing that it actually has come this far. Hopefully someday it will be complete, used, taken care of and a normal part of life on Oahu!
How long before the Rail become the solution to the homeless problem. In California the homeless ride the subway train all day until it's time to clean them. After the train is cleaned up the homeless have a clean place for the day.
Not sure. We'll have to see how the security will deal with that issue.
I tried em today. Of course packed. And so all the people blocked my view of the opposite side i was sitting. I dont know when ill ever ride it for utility so im guessing rail will be empty once the initial thrill is gone.
We don’t have any ag land to “swap”, only encroachment. We do need Transit Oriented Design, which would increase density and amenities, access to resources and shopping at the transit station neighborhoods. This is all planned and being planned. But to urbanize or convert more ag land to residential is detrimental and against planning criteria. Not only because ag lands are essential, but because open space is very important to social well-being. Did you notice any ADA access issues? Asking because there will be watchdogs looking for accessibility violations (and ADA access is very important for public transit to properly service the community. Thank you for review and feedback. Appreciate the time taken and your thoughtfulness and realistic but optimistic approach. Advertisement is common but Hawai’i may have ordinances against it (beautification/preservation of non-ad space)? I can’t remember for public transit but that’s why we don’t have billboards. Advertising can help but is also considered a form of “media pollution” in some tourism economy-based destinations.
And I appreciate and understand you are aware of the controversial nature of converting ag lands. Only expressing my perspective. Aloha.
Mahalo for the comment. I'm not sure about the ADA issues. I believe they had representatives from certain groups to test out the accessibility. Elevators are big. The gaps between the platforms and rail cars seemed close.
I just hope these trains don't get absolutely trashed
Me too.
11:30 The Bus only allows luggage that can be carried on your lap. This might be problematic if you're looking forward to catching a flight from HNL, once that station is open.
I don't know the specifics, but I would hope that the rail allows for large luggage since it's going to the airport.
@@HelloFromHawaii The Bus allows only baggage that can be carried on your lap.
In London, there's no restrooms. Stairs are to be expected...same like Japan and London.
in the US the Americans with disabilities act requires alternatives to stairs for persons with mobility problems, such as elevators or ramps. The rail authority has consistently said since 2010 that there will be publicly available, secured bathrooms at every station. It wasn’t until just before opening that they were unable or unwilling to keep their word yet again. Then they backed off to what they said before after public outcry.
“The city’s blueprints call for one unisex public restroom with one toilet at each of the 21 stations. And the restrooms at all but one station will be locked with access available only by contacting a station attendant.” Star Advertiser 7/12/2010
I’m glad it’s finally getting going but my concern is that the project was so mismanaged that almost no amount of ridership can ever recover the staggering cost.
I really worry that the over $12.4 billion current cost (only God knows what it will really cost) will burden the residents of Oahu of so much debt that everything else will suffer. Much higher taxes will drive up rents, food and everything else and the C&C as well as the state will have to reduce funding of our schools, bus service and roadwork too.
The continuation to the airport, Ala Moana and hopefully Waikiki is absolutely essential to ridership but I can’t image wheee the funding will come from. I pray for our civic leaders to find the wisdom so as to get us all out of this mess they themselves created.
The potential is actually more or less one of the biggest reasons why they built the rail. Look up "transit oriented development" for more info. Basically, if you build a rail system, developers jump at building commercial/residential developments along it because it's cheap at the time but has potential to become high value. There's plans to develop 11k units of housing near Ho'opili station already because of the rail.
Also, as far as ridership goes, I think their estimate of initial 10k/day is probably accurate. The reason is because a lot of busses that used to go along that route are being changed into a rail transfer, so all those daily riders are going to be on rail (and one of those routes is the A bus, so it's kind of a lot). I don't really think most people expect people who drive to immediately switch to rail on day 1, and I don't think the City/County has any illusions about that either.
I'm looking forward to seeing what housing projects come through the pipeline around the stations. Could be a nice way to provide housing for Hawaii future generations.
Property near the rail station will be very expensive to buy or rent. You're going to pay for the convenience factor!
@@kevinp8108 Possibly. It could also be cheaper due to the noise. If the convenience factor was true, then it would mean rail was at least a resounding success. I have a hard time believing all 50-70k units of housing are going to be high income, but I'd imagine some of them are for sure.
The Tokyo to Hokkaido bullet train project cost less than $5 billion dollars, including underwater bridges & a length of about 300 miles. Where did $10 billion dollars go on this 20 mile long Disneyland speed train?🤑
Big mistake not going to UH. As for cost I work for the University of Washington and its free to ride any public transportation.The UW pays for it. That should have been the main focus of the skyline. Big miss, but still get chance to make it right. It must go to the University!
How much does it cost to ride the rail? In the SF Bay Area it costs so much that if you have 2 people it's cheaper to drive and pay for parking...
I rode BART for over 25 years and know how convenient it is. I would smile as the train went by people stuck in their cars on the freeway. It might be cheaper for two people to drive, but parking where? In the City? Even back in 1984 it was way too expensive. For me, it was easier to take a nap and wake up at my stop and just walk into the building. I guess it all depends on your own personal situation, just like it will be for the Hawaii folks.
@@score2high For me to take BART into the city would be $8 each way, two people $32. Parking for a few hours is about there.
If am remembering right...$2.75=one-way adult, $5.50-R/T. HoloCard passes compatible
I think it costs about $3 to ride. Free this weekend.
$3 per ride, transfers between bus and rail are free, $7.50 daily limit and $80 monthly limit on charges to holocard. I think they will also have some discounted fares such as seniors, students, child and handicapped.
Such the optimist! And valid points, too! BUT....here's the thing. I voted FOR rail way back when it was on the ballot, because we were told it was going to UH-Manoa, and that made a little sense. It seems that along the way, somehow that goal was pushed aside and revised to Ala Moana SC, and now, not even there. Can anyone say....SCAM? And once the rail started going, mostly through blank ag land in Kapolei, government officials (Mufi) could then say it was too late to stop since so many miles have already been built. MORE scam? Anyone who lives on the west side knows that when UH is in session traffic is bad. Reason? NO matter what times their classes start, students have to go early to hunt for public street parking since the structure at UH is not big enough. So, hundreds more cars on the road. Summer and winter breaks? It's really not that bad! Even government research showed that the rail will not alleviate traffic. So.....?
There were, IMO, two possible tax funded solutions, both cheaper than rail. One: UH could partner with TheBus and offer FREE UH shuttles, maybe every half hour or so. Students can use their ID as a "pass," and stop at major hubs like Waianae, Waipahu, Pearl City, Aiea, and even from other areas like Kailua, Kaneohe, Waimanalo, Hawaii Kai, Waialae, Kaimuki, Downtown, Salt Lake, etc. covering major travel points. That would eliminate many cars from all the roads. Both my kids went to major D-1 schools on the mainland, and both campuses had such a shuttle system. Two: We could beef up the UH-West Oahu campus to keep west side students out west; say, from Aiea to Waianae, and thus eliminate traffic on H-1 to town. We could simply survey west side HS juniors and seniors on their intended majors, then customize the major offerings at UHWO to fit their needs (i.e., food service, nursing, teaching) and even offer some trade classes (plumbing, electrical, HVAC) like Honolulu CC. The younger population is moving out west simply because the homes are relatively cheaper there. It's time to prepare for their future and not force their kids to have to go to Manoa if they choose to stay home for college. At best, we could do both options so we cover residents from all parts of the island.
Look, we all know what will happen to rail in the future. Same story we get over and over in Hawaii for high priced government projects. Maintenance will get too expensive, and we will have to shovel more money into the pit. Even when running perfectly, we will not break even. Are you ready, taxpayers? Or should I say, keiki? Prime examples: Aloha Stadium, Hawaii Convention Center, Honolulu Airport, State prison, etc. But hey, we are sure good at allowing multi-million dollar condos to be built, many in less than two years and on budget!
You noticed the difference between the public and private sectors. Govt could be as efficient as the private sector if it valued it's resources, but spending other people's money is much easier than spending your own.
As for the changes to the plans as it's built? Private sector would hold people accountable for increased expenses that weren't planned for. Government just spends more money because the contractors involved will throw some of that money into campaign coffers for the politicians.
Mahalo for the comment. I think the suggestions you gave are great and could still be done. It would be nice for UH to partner with the bus system to get students to campus more directly. Also, I was hoping that UH West would expand to allow students on that side to stay on that side of the island.
Wonder what it will cost to ride. This may be $$ Right now you are correct, Rail .05
Not gonna work. Only buss people may use the rail. Cars are efficient. I park in town at our office building… and being able to rush home in an emergency is critical. I can’t imagine trying to make my way to the station and then boarding when I need to be somewhere. Plus I got stops on the way home with kids so having a vehicle is too useful. But for buss people… can.
Yeah, riding rail would be tough with kids. Need the flexibility to drop off and pick up. But for those who don't have to worry about that, it might be viable once more stations open.
Another potential pro when the rail gets expanded is bypassing traffic. I can see locals using this that work or go school down town side but live on the west side taking the rail to save them the headache of morning and pau Hana traffic.
@rainman11 - many locals have not realized that property managers who own rentals near the rail station will increase their rental rates due to the convenience factor. Many locals would not be able to afford the rental increase and will have to move away. This is the curse of modernization!
@@kevinp8108oh we realize this. I mean it’s been happening even before the rail was done.
Like Iam Tongi said, “priced out of paradise”. I have family as well that experienced this first hand and had to move to Washington.
@@rainman11 - I've noticed many locals moving to Las Vegas, the 9th island.
@@kevinp8108 yup, have relatives that moved there too.
Aloha 🌺🥰
Place a Hawaiian Homelands Casino at the Ka Makana Alii Mall at end of the line in Kapolei.
That would get ridership up and provide Money for the Hawaiians to build homes so they can stay on the Islands.
Interesting idea. I think the State tried to pass legislation, but it didn't make it.
Mahalo for the review! Aloha 👍
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They should have built it from Downtown to the Airport first, and then have the current opened segment built later in phase 2
Yeah, it would have been nice to use it in town first. Even Ala Moana to downtown would have been useful.
Maybe the on-board adds fall under the same laws as billboards - no billboards in Hawaii.
Maybe.
This is another awesome video. I am grateful. I hope I get to go this weekend. I know it's going to be busy. #Honolulu #Hawaii
Have fun. Should be a good crowd this weekend
A concert arena at Kapolei like an Ian Tongi Concert ……
10:35 11:59 Great ideas, especially in the short term while segment 2 is under construction! Regarding real estate also, since #SkylineHNL is owned by DTS and inspired from the #Vancouver #SkyTrain in #Canada and other driverless automated steel-wheels-on-rails medium-capacity/light #metro systems worldwide (e.g. #metrotaipei's Yellow line, Copenhagen #metro, etc.), DTS could in the medium term also work with developers like what the #SkyTrain's transit agency, #TransLink, is doing and allow developers to build development on top of existing park-and-rides (including park-and-ride expansions) and other public-owned facilities including public-owned parking for new funding sources. Also, since there is nothing currently planned for #Skyline to #alamoana, with the new funding sources, if #HART and DTS aren't using a method for project planning and execution used in other cities worldwide already, #HART and DTS could use a new approach on rail projects where projects use a parallel method in executing decision-making and other various processes likely similar to what other cities worldwide are using over a linear process so there are less chances of delays and other problems related to using the linear process. E.g. planning and land acquisition processes begins immediately while design and other aspects have more time to be polished. Especially in preparing and funding not only #Skyline to #alamoana but also beyond such as #UHManoa and #Waikiki. #HART and DTS could also work with entities such as #AlaMoanaCenter's owner Brookfield Properties, #UHManoa, #Waikiki businesses and resorts, and more on #Skyline east extensions (land, deals, etc.).
I hope it is successful. Tired of paying for it from BI. No intention to ever go back to Oahu.
Don't think the State hasn't already projected out for many decades their plan to develop those areas you envisioned being converted. They will.
Everything a State does is to make money for its investors and their families. They plan far into future with every step they take.
What? Everything a state does is to make money for it's investors and their families?
What evidence do you have for that? You will never recoup the cost of this rail system. It will always be a drain on the states budget and for just a few that are benefitted.
The reason people have such a tough time affording living in the state is because they do nothing for it's taxpayers. Even with federal transportation money or green energy grants the rail will be a nonstop theif of limited tax dollars. How does that benefit the residents?
We'll have to see. I'm not sure what the current TOD plans are for the stations.
@@Steve-oo7vv it doesn’t. I think lovevanillarose is referring to the politicians, the politically well connected, cronies, real estate developers, land owners, contractors, construction firms, unions, offshore investors, realtors, etc. Not the average Hawaiian citizen.
@@gsn794 That's exactly what I mean! Thank you for understanding.
Everything for everyone you just listed, and nothing for average humble people of Hawaii. This has been the track record for hundreds of years now. It's not ever going to change.
Your review although somewhat positive was overshadowed by the legitimate negative facts you mentioned like lack of bathroom facilities, too few people find the rail useful, parking issues and many stairways in case elevators breakdown. Tulsi Gabbard focused her comments on the elevated rail had no bathrooms at the stations/stops, 130% cost overruns and the rail ends nowhere in a vacant area. Relying on the potential for the rail is like hoping inflation will be better tomorrow and government deficits will someday disappear.
Well, I figure since we built it and the money is spent, we should try to enjoy it. I'm sure there will be issues, but this is what the public voted for when they elected certain politicians.
No big deal that there is no bathrooms on HART. BART stations in the Bay Area have bathrooms, they are always out of service or not allowed to use them, for security, the ones you can use, there is always a homeless person hanging out inside, good luck waiting half an hour. Most of the time public bathrooms are not working and dirty. No one use anyway.
"Beautiful views of the West Side" is a contradiction in terms, no? Kind of like "Jumbo Shrimp". Brown landscape and "scenic" views of apartment blocks and ticky-tacky housing? Mufi Hanneman's folly.
A very important factor is the upkeep of the train. If they dont keep up with the cleaning and the homeless take over then its game over.
The cost vs ridership will never make it cost effective
Yeah, I don't think the projected numbers were ever going to pay for itself.
@@HelloFromHawaii
“The same rates would apply to riders of the city’s $9.2 billion rail line when it becomes reality under an integrated fare structure the commission also agreed on. Rail’s initial segment from East Kapolei to Aloha Stadium is scheduled to open by the end of the year.
While the commission’s proposal calls for riders to pay more, it is projected to bring in less revenue than a recommended fare box recovery ratio policy of 25% to 30% of costs. So taxpayers would still be paying for more than 75% of TheBus (and rail combined) operations.” Star Advertiser 2/16/2020
“The rail system is now expected to cost the city $94 million to operate in its first year, including $54 million paid to the rail’s operator, Hitachi Rail Honolulu, according to Roger Morton, the city’s Transportation Services director.” Civil Beat 5/10/2023
Maximum possible revenue if they hit their 10k rides per day target, assuming you ignore daily and monthly limits on charges to holo card, and all discounted fares such as senior, student, child and handicapped is about $11 million. 10,000 X $3 X 365 = $10,950,000. $94 - $11 = $83 million taxpayer subsidy in year 1. Roughly $227k per day.
The only subway system in the US that supports itself is the one in NYC. It is probably the only one that can, but the peculiar issues of Hawaii might play in its favor in this case.
HR, formerly known as HART (as in BART in SFO) could provide some of the benefits that HFH cites, e.g. destination travel and development around stations. But this would require a change in mindset from car culture. The bathroom fiasco is a corollary of the homeless problem. One hopes there will be no vandalism...
All this said, remember that HART was started in 1977 under Frank Fasi and has been mired by politics ever since. Here we are 50 years later, billions and billions of dollars, and still only half done. Lastly, while the Hawaiian station names are interesting, wouldn't it have been better to name a locality, i.e. Pearlridge Center, Leeward Community College, etc. so riders know where to get off? That's how it's done everywhere else. And what about bus connections from the stations?
The stations have both names. And I think when people ride it, they will probably refer to the stations by location rather than the given name. We'll see if it ever picks up.
Do u think the east side would allow a raised rail in that beautiful landscape
Maybe. Could be nice.
Does Japan's trains have a "human" conductor? According to my son, who is a city bus driver, the train is controlled by the "main terminal." Is it called "AI" operated?
i grew up in kobe and rode the Rokko Liner from the mainland to Rokko Island for school... these monorails had no conductors... but the trains on the mainland of japan, those do have conductors... same with the bullet trains
A lot of big subway systems around the world run without human conductors/engineers now. The only real trick it has to do is stop if something is on the tracks. Speeding up, slowing down, and stopping at predisposed points are all things that have been done in industrial settings for years.
I thought the trains are controlled by a conductor on-board just in case.
It is partially finished.
They need to wrap that rail all around the island, thats when it will be used
Might just need to extend it to UH Manoa.
@@HelloFromHawaii “The plan also includes $2.7 billion for mass-transit projects, including $2.5 billion for a fixed-rail system between Kapolei and Manoa.” Star Bulletin 2/19/2006
“Although the vision of rail that captured the public’s imagination was a 28-mile line running from Kapolei to the University of Hawai‘i at Manoa, it turns out that the city can only afford to build a smaller section of that line, 20 miles long.” Honolulu Magazine 3/1/2007
Only took them one year to forget about Oahu’s single largest source of traffic and pivot to “transit oriented development.”
Zippy's Holo card gone so fast!
I heard. Local people like free stuff 😆
I don’t understand what exactly you’re looking for. Median housing is already $1M. Housing on the west side in any developed area is $1M. So how cheap do you want it to be? Housing prices in Hawaii never go down. They just rise slower. Regarding the bathroom issue, these are not cross country trains where you wait in a train station for hours for your train. Think of it more like an elevated bus. Are there bathrooms at bus stops? No. How do you prepare for that? You plan ahead. If you continue to limit yourself to only town and Kailua, those are the prices you are going to pay. I live in Kunia. My drive into town is shorter than the drive from Kailua so it’s really up to you. You have to make the choice. Don’t expect it to get handed to you.
Some of the housing prices on the west side are relatively cheap and below the $1 million median price. But I'm also talking about condo developments that could be built around the stations. $300Ks for one-bedrooms. Starting somewhere around there.
@@HelloFromHawaii Even the affordable housing developments in Ewa are not that cheap.
@808lublabs4 - property values will increase for houses and condos near the rail stations. This will mean that landlords will increase rental rates so high many locals will not be able to afford it.
@@kevinp8108 Exactly what I was getting at. Expecting prices that low near a rail station no matter where on the island would be unrealistic.
I think rail will be good for Hawaii. Something needs to be done; traffic is horrendous. I don’t understand why some people are so against it.
Agreed but my issues with rail is that the cost and time it took to build this thing went way beyond what it should have been.
You are so right on that one.
I'm not sure it will have a big impact on traffic in the short-term, but maybe once more housing is built along the rail.
@@HelloFromHawaii agree and also when rail gets extended to town I think we’ll see more locals consider rail as a main source of transportation.
because according to rail’s own final EIS, table 3-12, it will only reduce traffic by 1.7% vs the no build option. Daily car trips without rail in 2030, after 10 full years of full time operation of the Kapolei to Ala Moana route (yes, the contractually obligated opening date for the full 20 miles is 1/31/2020) is 2,815,800. With rail it’s 2,767,600, 48,200 trips less, or expressed as a percentage, 1.7%. Looked at another way, rail will allegedly remove 17 out of every 1000 cars on the road. Probably not noticeable.
Other problems: the now shortened route is still going to cost just shy of $10 billion, nearly double the contractually obligated $5.12 billion, as well as being at least 11 years late. Finishing the original, full 20 miles will be later still. “ridership on the rail system under the truncated FFGA scope is expected to be about 84,000 weekday riders,” (6/30/2022 “recovery” plan) down from 116k riders, so the traffic reduction will actually be lower.
Completing the rail to Ala Moana will cost $11.3 billion, meaning the final 1.2 miles will actually cost $1.37 billion, or an almost unbelievable $1.14 billion per mile.
Have you thought about being on the rail board of directors?
It sounds like a tough job.
@HelloFromHawaii Perhaps you could put together a list of achievable suggestions for increasing ridership in both the short and long term. Your ideas seemed logical and insightful.
I wish you had inserted a map to show us all the places you spoke about.
Sorry, wish I had included that too. A map is on the Honolulu Rail website.
Hi Chris, this is Jess here again. I was wondering if at any point the rail goes underground ? I live in Chicago, we got 4 different rails, the green, red, purple , yellow lines , it's not that bad. What I can't understand, why it took so long for the rail in Hawaii to be finished, a lot of people are stipulating that many local politicians got rich off it, I understand the Feds investigated the construction and the big wheel involved with it . I imagine you get to see many nice picturesque sites, as well as the Hawaiian ghettos , we got them here in Chicago too🤣
For why things take longer & are more expensive to build, we're a bunch of islands in the middle of the pacific 2,500 miles away from the US mainland.
Doesn't go underground. Not sure they could dig deep enough.
From what I understand, tunneling is off limits for the project due to safeguarding aquifers under the city.
@@HelloFromHawaii I can understand why it wouldn't go underground, although it would be nice if a train could be built from Honolulu to Chicago, 😄jejeje. However, I was disappointed that it only serves the beautiful people, Ewa, Waikiki, Honolulu and Diamond head, it doesn't go around the island or in between. When I do get to Oahu, I'm hoping to live on the North shore. Mahalo.
People who cant afford cars won't need any extra incentives to use public transportation. I think this is just great news that it is opening soon.
🤙
Should have built it to downtown first
How were you able to ride before 30 Jun?
Cause he’s an influencer, and they expected him to say nice things about it probably. Or he just knew someone. These things do test runs of one sort or another for a bit before opening to get the kinks out.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881
Mahalo.
I was invited. They have been inviting different groups to check it out all week.
@@HelloFromHawaii did you have to sign a waiver?
“Members of the media were required to sign a waiver agreeing not to sue if something went wrong on the preview ride leading to bodily injury, property damage, permanent disability or death.” Civil Beat 6/25/2023
Bathrooms. How long are the spaces between stations? We get into a car and drive for hours with little regard for bathroom breaks. Stop at a convenience store or gas station, and guess what? You gotta ask for a key most times.
Seems like the same situation with the train here. Just a little planning ahead ( pee before) and you should have nothing to worry about.
I feel like this is one of those complaints just to complain.
We'll see how the bathroom situation goes. Not everyone can hold it.
Hawaii needs to become car free.
We have the opposite problem. Almost two cars per adult 😆
Would have enjoyed seeing your ride on video. Oh well.
Yeah, sorry. Just didn't feel it was right to film for the channel on my visit. However, there will be lots of footage this weekend.
Ok.
Funny - a video about a new rail system shot entirely in an automobile.
😆
A new subway in the US!
Doesn't go underground, but a nice ride.