Please do more of this, I feel like a lot of the rocket league community is stuck with game sense from 2018 (i.e rotating back post religiously) and seeing modern day pros/analysts talk about what to do in X situation is really interesting
When you play rocket league all day, sometimes you forget that the average player is diamond. This Reddit thread is a good reminder. There are very few absolutes in rocket league.
only gc1 and havent watched the video but ive believed that "backpost rotation" (and strict rotations in general) have been useless for a few years by now, as well as things suhc as "shadowing." just need whoevers closest to go for the ball facing forwards and get a strong 50, or at worst force an action so it can be readable for the person behind. Just Go For The Ball
I think it's interesting how the approach to this question changes as skill increases. I specifically remember back in the day most people at any rank would have said rotate back post, because the advantage in a 1v1 went to defense. As individual skill increases, that advantage shifts to offense. This is true in any sport. Consider soccer, if you're last man with prime C. Ronaldo dribbling at you doing stepovers, are you going to risk diving in and getting beat, or are you going to buy time and 'shadow' while hoping for help from your team? Now consider that exact same situation in children's soccer. That furball that happens around the ball happens because nobody is skilled enough to create or threaten SPACE. The higher in skill you go in any sport, the more the meta will shift towards "same-side" rotation a.k.a. shadow and minionize your teammate as Jack put it, because the closer you get to skill ceiling, the more risky a 1v1 becomes on defense.
answering before I watch the video: it all depends on my teammates position but in priority top to bottom my choices are probably- cut and disrupt ball carrier, demo off ball, rotate back post, rotate near post. The reality is you get to make a lot of these choices together.
I watched a Johnny vid from years ago and was keen on remembering his 2s idealogy at the time. One person pressures the ball, one person is responsible for net. Even if the far player can challenge the ball, the near player simply cant cover the net at the time. Its a flow chart. can the other person make a save based on where theyre at? Yes, challenge ball. No? Dont challenge, steal boosts, fake challenges, look menacing
I'd love to see a video breaking down playstyles: how to form playstyles, how to recognize and work around your teammates playstyle, and how recognize and counter opponents playstyle.
I think the difference in mentality between high/low level play is cus at lower level play challenging early will work more often cus people need more time to set up what they want to do and they just have less options available due to mechanics. At higher level people can react and act faster so a quick challenge will get countered more often hence the person closer to net wants to wait and give his teammate more time to get back, and while they're getting back they can disrupt the play. If the player in net tries challenge early the offensive players could potentially get it around them with all the different options available and then there's no one left to defend, by waiting there's always a defender in net and a disruptive challenge still happens. As Jack said, it's their job (especially the one rotating back I'd say) to read each other and the play in order to make it work cus this can vary a lot
I feel like an under rated thing talked about is just your presence in high level rocket league Going far post takes you away from being in the play ( so you have no presence) , when I beat one I always rear cam check and depending on where the person I beat is will either determine pushing the ball or controlling if they do try cut even their presence can make me panic flick bad touch’s etc
Hey Jack and Johnny, first off massive fan of you both for years now appreciate the content keep it up. I recognized whilst watching that a lot of the ideas illustrated in the video were immediately understandable to me as I could visualise them and the issues with the alternatives in real game scenarios straight away, chalk this up to just having played those situations more than most and against players who play it right more of the time (I’m gc2). Though I could imagine that if I didn’t have that knowledge base to draw from (such is the case for lower ranked players) just looking at a (impeccably drawn props Jack) diagram, it could be a lot harder to keep track of the different situations, why and when what’s better and apply them to real game scenarios both in your head and in game, as to truly understand it. I suspect you guys have plenty of this in TNR (I don’t have it I’m broke lol) but I think having replays to illustrate (both pro and likely even better, lower ranks) could really aid in understanding for lower ranked players, particularly for hotly debated topics such as this one. May be a tall order as I’m sure you’re both very busy in the scene but think it may help. Otherwise, great vid keen for more!
This is fantastic guys, thanks so much. I'm a GC3 trying to coach some champ friends to GC- Will share this with them. Ironically in reviewing a 2s replay of theirs we had a variation of this exact scenario where our guy, lets call him 'player A' had stolen the opponents corner and could challenge from close behind with his full boost, the opponents were low, we shouldve known they were low, instead of challenging... player A went following the side-line to rotate and our goal side player (player B) double jump dive challenged, actually still in the opponents final 3rd, winning it hard... He smashed it off the opponents corner which resulted in basically a pass to the opponents to long shoot in, it resulted in a goal before our player A could even get back from his pointless sideline rotation. I said to the guys... Player B should almost never challenge in that scenario and certainly never double jump challenge if you dont need to. Primarily because it wasnt yet dangerous with the ball near the opponents corner but He needed to start by keeping his distance and trying to read where the ball is going to go, maybe fake challenge to buy player A time to get the challenge in (something it seems champs find very uncomfortable to do) and make player A his b* (minion) and have him use some of his 100 boost to cut and force for him. It also felt listening to his reasoning that he didnt actually realise that it was a defensive scenario for his team where him challenging the ball didnt make sense. He just thought.. I can win this 50/beat the opponent to this so BANG... he didnt realise that beating an opponent to a ball and smashing it off their corner is not good if his teamate is out of the play. I don't think you guys really covered what Player B would do if stuck in the 1v2 in a situation where the player A is stuck out of the play and unable to get back. Would appreciate Jack's opinion on it (not Johnny's xD i saw him in the showmatch). But i said to the guys, if player A actually wasnt full boost, couldnt recover in any way to apply pressure to the opponents and they were countering 2v1, then player B needs to just look for an opportunity to challenge the ball asap, but in a way that sends the ball to safe position and trying to stay in the play thereafter (no double jump challenges). I.e. control a 50/50 to a corner or sidewall, create a slowplay scenario if he himself can take control of the ball somehow. ideally challenge before the opponents have proper control. You cant give 2v1 players time to take proper control of the ball, they will have too many options that cannot be stopped with a shadow style, 1v1 defensive approach, primarily a bump/demo. Edit: We need content like this to counter cookie cutter stupid crap from low level content creators like SpookLuke who indocterine bad habits into young, impressionable viewers. Cheers Guys.
13:00 i can’t believe nobody brought up that the left enemy could go for a demo on the last man (your teammate who is back). it’ll be incredibly hard to go for a demo on someone who is also going for a demo.
In these situations the crux is ball control: if the opponent is about to gain solid control you need to buy time/disrupt, but most low sense players see this as chasing. They don’t understand fundamentally that chasing is forcing touches when there is no opponent control/threat established, or that you may be trying to pressure the ball. Conversely, people pressuring the ball often end up following through or making a bad touch when they didn’t intend to because they think their teammate didn’t come for the ball soon enough, when it’s usually the case that the opponent was NOT threatening control and their teammate had plenty of time to challenge or enter play while they fake challenge / rotate back. I hope this video reaches the people who need it most but let’s be honest, if they can’t break down a simple scenario that only takes seconds to understand and still have the confidence to post the wrong answer on Reddit, they aren’t going to watch a 30min video explaining why they are wrong 😂
that is all well and good.. but most players arent actually disrupting anything bu their own tm8s approach. Most are jsut rotating all the way back through the play, not actually disrupting the opponent
- im 1800-1850 and my brain was like B every time lol, last man is already cooked. - "Give the respect to the situation" is the single best rank up quote ive heard in my 10 years of RL. - "Who is covering what?" is answered prolly 5 times a second for high rank RL players, because you have to understand your responsibility within the play
I know the focus is to improve at high rank but please consider the steps just before so people can go from diamond or champ and work towards these concepts. Related, maybe a video or brief mention on how to analyze and decision make based on your teammates consistency. In a perfect world everyone is doing sort of what they’re supposed to and hits the ball more often than not… but that isn’t what happens below champ. Almost ever. lol
This one had some discourse on twitter a few months ago and I'd like your guys' thoughts. Imagine you're at the GC1 rank in a 2v2 game. The opponent has the ball in an air dribble with enough distance to go high or go low, and the other opponent is behind him to follow up. You're on the backwall and your teammate is in the net, both of you are full boost. Who should challenge, the teammate on the wall or the teammate in the net? My opinion is the guy on the backwall, since it's easier for them to cover high if they double or reset, while the teammate has the best chance at defending if it's a low fake. Regardless, love the content yall been putting out, I just subbed to TNR after the last few videos convinced me, keep up the good work.
To me it always makes sense the back wall defender meets the challenge first and if they fail and the challenge continues towards net the defender in goal now must attack.
as a GC2, it rarely matters which one challenges, whoever is quicker/has been more aggressive in the game usually goes(this is where comms get important). Either the man on the backwall goes, covering the high so that the shot goes low, OR the man on the ground goes for the ball directly, forcing the attacker to change the course of the ball.(the challenger must not get faked, otherwise the man on the wall is awkward.) Either way as long as one man challenges quickly, there should never be a goal. At very high levels there are more possibilities for the offence, but even at high GC it is good to never assume they can clear the first man with a reset, then still follow up with a double (this coming from someone who is more mechanical than they are good at rl😂)
its a good question and ur opinion has a pretty good logic but it's not perfect. i think its the opposite. the guy in the net must challenge first and cover the low option. during an air dribble, most of the time, the first player challenge for cover the low option. because the net is below the backboard, and if ur opponent take a flip reset, he has to use his reset for beat u. if u cover the high option and u assume ur opponent will use his reset and not fake it, u risk to be beated by the fake, and ur team mate has to deal with an opponent with a flip reset available. and the sooner someone use a reset, the more the last defender has time to react even if u are beat by the flip reset its basicaly the same thing than defend an oponent dribbling in the ground. u cover the low option and the ball goes above ur head. dosent matter if u are beat, ur team mate has the ball. an air dribble is the same thing. the player who air dribbling has the choice to beat u with a flip reset or a really good touch of air dribble. force him to beat u by throwing the ball on the back board by covering the low option. ur team mate will get the possession if u do ur job correctly
@@prone1277 Yes this is correct. The guy on the ground should challenge first and force the ball high for the defender on backboard, who can take possession, power clear, 50, etc.
I thought the same as you, but then thought maybe the guy on the ground should force it high as you should in most situations, (don't let them get below or fake you), this to the backboard player. Still not entirely sure though as a GC1 player myself.
I will answer if I was in that situation i will got straight, STRAIGHT into the near post goal side, so be as fast as you can to the goal, if opponents are slow you can demo the left one.
I think that if you're at a lower rank (champ and below), you will be better off just almost always rotating arround, especially when you are in front of the ball and not behind the opponent. This assumes RL players are actually struggling wiht the answer because they are smart... most struggle bc they autopilot and just chase after the ball.
Best answer, this scenario shouldn't really happen if you're positioning correctly, but if it does then you should try to cut off the play for your teammate.
Being a Johnny boi stream watcher.. I knew all this.. nd scenarios.. was here to see how they articulate all the possibilities and Jack did great with the conclusion 👌
The distance to net is different. If the ball is already in corner pretty much, and you go near post you can bump your teammate or hit the ball over them. It doesn't matter if they are facing forward/back, demo A get post in the reddit post. You shouldn't put all your resources in corners nothing will be accomplished by one player especially in 2s.Just another bit of variances in decisions making based on where the ball is, in the post it's closer to wall and both opponents got momentum towards corner....
Also want to add, I see this alot. I always demo A on defense, going near post on defense is almost always a recipe for disaster. Even if your teammate is backwards, they will likely save it across and if you demo A the ball is already there. The only time I'd consider demoing/going ball B is if I'm side on to the play.
As you mentioned, the position in the original post is a 1v2 no matter how you rotate, the opponents are just too far to catch up and the most you can do is go straight to net (try and grab some small pads of course) and pray for your teammate, so there is no sense analyzing it in terms of disruption. The revised position and the one subsequently talked about makes the necessary assumption that you can interfere with the play. I won't talk about how it's not a "recipe for disaster" like you say because I feel it's well explained enough in the video on why it works. I encourage you to try and incorporate more ball side rotations in your game (assuming you are higher than, like, gold). It will be awkward at first, you will mess up and over step, your teammate will get mad at you-but that's part of improving. It's much harder for you to read the opponent's play while also trying to read if/when your teammate wants to challenge, which is why the blanket method of 'go back post' is so comforting and consistent, but it is rarely the 'most effective' play. Regardless of what is the 'best' play is right at the moment, the important thing is to be adaptive. The plan you had half a second ago may no longer be the best based on what changed on the field: teammate turned to challenge, opponent hooks wide to pass, opponent not dribbling quick enough, etc. Try to not get stuck on one point of view because Rocket League is a very fluid and dynamic game. As an addition, save your replay anytime you or your teammate is in a 1v2 and get scored on (or even if someone made a clutch save). Analyze it later to see if you think some other method of rotating would've been better. Boring, I know, but it is really useful. Hindsight can really be 20/20, if you keep an open mind of course :D
@@drapex0072 I'm a coach. I agree with the video, I was just adding more specifically to defense. The distance to your net is what I'm looking at here. The options change when you're closer vs father from net. When you're on defense it's silly to rotate into your teammate. If there's space and i can catch up I will cut in but that's different from what I'm talking about, good advice generally though 🙂
Naaa this is going to fuck all my ranked games. Every champ 3 and his Nan are going to be rotating front post in every situation now “because Jack said” Infact they do that anyway. Proceed gents
Depends on way too many variables personally. I do something different for a large number of reasons. There are 3 other players with their own play styles and ability to play. Depending on what my game sense is in the moment I might feel like one option is more advantageous than another. If my teammate can’t control the ball on the wall but can ground to air dribble out of nowhere and their 50/50 game is in point, I’ll force more in the air and on the wall so they can always collect and beat the opponent for advantageous positions in the ground to keep them away from uncomfortable positions on the walls However if my teammate plays full rotations I may make a full rotation with a demo attempt instead of cutting to establish a consistent play style for my teammate If my teammate believes they’re right, they are and I won’t improve our game by disagreeing, even if they’re not actually right and we get scored on It’s better to take a chance on your opponent being right and letting them learn from their mistakes than forcing them to read the play you believe is best Being more readable for your teammate is the only way to improve
Answer before watching: I'd take B and threaten a demo on the guy on ball to force a play. And then either I get the demo and m8 gets ball or more likely, he makes a forced play and then I turn left to look for a demo on the other opponent as I rotate towards far post to deal with the outcome of my m8s challenge on the play. Or turn early if he gets a dead 50/something I can instantly follow up.
Situation from twitch chat today -“The ball would never move if 2 perfect players were playing against each other”. I want a full nextrank video with Jack and Johnny going over that with epic pen.
I think this advice should change for champ and below. Until everyone has consistent enough fundamental skill then any risking any chance of ending up in the same corner of your TM is just a straight no-no imo. we're trying to rank up after all, and unfortunately even if we could perform the optimal / 'correct' pro play, it's actually not the best option in a rank where players don't have a proper read on the ball and outcomes.
Couldn't disagree more. The level you see in diamond-champ now is arguably around that seen in some early RLCS seasons and is testament to how much the average player has improved. The average player won't keep improving if they don't keep trying to make the objectively best plays. Especially in a positional and challenge based sense. Those are the true fundamentals. This is why you see platinums who can flip reset but cant do the basics of challenging for their teamate or shadow defence. People arent focusing on improving in the most impactful aspects for being a genuinely good player. Attitudes like yours, one shared by low level content creator coaches is genuinely harming the communities growth. I saw a video where SpookLuke said the same as you just did. I also saw him say that at any level below champ, just bang the ball in every scenario, don't try to take control, dont try to catch the ball, dont try flicks, dont try slow plays... because you won't be able to do it, you will just be slow, get challenged and dunked on etc.... This type of rhetoric is frankly crazy and results in really unrounded players. You need to try make the best play for the scenario. who cares what the rank is. If you and your solo q tm8 end up car body language confusing eachother because of it, then who cares, you both need to make that mistake enough times to learn.... like higher level players already did. Don't wait until you are that 51% win rate 1000 game a season bot greifing GC1 lobbies by being that guy who bangs every ball and rotates backpost relgiously... Improving as a player isnt about the result/MMR, it is about the process.
@@christor2907 you misunderstand, I AM saying they need to adapt, but more than jack does. as for level, RCLS equivalent is nonsense, sure the AVERAGE lvl is similar to RLCS season 2ish now but the consistency is most definitely not. Diamond has triple reset-ers, that can't save a gold flick, and at the other end there are those that can't even flip on kickoff yet, and wait in net like 2016 Gibbs, the skill variance is absolutely massive, more so than ssl. when the consistency disappears the plan does too. the only thing you CAN do adapt, towards the worst case scenario because no one the field is consistent. far less than any pro at any stage of RLCS. if you want to argue RLCS levels it's like the skill of season 4 with twice the whiffs of season 1 but multiply that by random team mates who you've never practised with, no comms, smurfs, and 1 goal quitters and your closer to the truth.
While I didnt really learn anything new in this vid cause I already knew it, I think its a great way to teach some things. Im not a huge fan of the visualisation thought since I like to listen to it as a podcast and it can get hard to follow (I assume when youre talking about stuff for high GCs or even SSLs more and more people will be like me in that regard, but for this level it should be fine for most🤔)
the idea of back post rotation is that is a baseline for idiots. like we tell terrrible players not to do stuff because we want them to have good habits. then from there u adjust an make calls about breakig from it. thing is tho i dont think most champ an around there realise how many times they break the rotation on whim. its not like u can see a logic to alot of it. seems like they just pick things on a whim and thats why u get arguments. dunnin kruger effect messes with the debate tho also.
If they are both opponents are ahead of you against one defender, they either score or get a clear you need to get first to, what is even the question? Rotate back as fast as possible in a 2v2, the shortest route/pads/boost if close route is the way. You can always rotate back too slow, but you cant rotate back too fast if both opponents have the ball and heading towards your goal.
Id just like to say that the car near us is roughly half a tile long and the far car is nearly 3 tiles big. Far player should cover net as its almost the same size as the net. Games ez
Please do more of this, I feel like a lot of the rocket league community is stuck with game sense from 2018 (i.e rotating back post religiously) and seeing modern day pros/analysts talk about what to do in X situation is really interesting
Then you have to buy TNR lmao
Buy TNR then
@@TinyNinja15 thx
When you play rocket league all day, sometimes you forget that the average player is diamond. This Reddit thread is a good reminder. There are very few absolutes in rocket league.
only gc1 and havent watched the video but ive believed that "backpost rotation" (and strict rotations in general) have been useless for a few years by now, as well as things suhc as "shadowing." just need whoevers closest to go for the ball facing forwards and get a strong 50, or at worst force an action so it can be readable for the person behind. Just Go For The Ball
I think it's interesting how the approach to this question changes as skill increases. I specifically remember back in the day most people at any rank would have said rotate back post, because the advantage in a 1v1 went to defense. As individual skill increases, that advantage shifts to offense. This is true in any sport. Consider soccer, if you're last man with prime C. Ronaldo dribbling at you doing stepovers, are you going to risk diving in and getting beat, or are you going to buy time and 'shadow' while hoping for help from your team? Now consider that exact same situation in children's soccer. That furball that happens around the ball happens because nobody is skilled enough to create or threaten SPACE. The higher in skill you go in any sport, the more the meta will shift towards "same-side" rotation a.k.a. shadow and minionize your teammate as Jack put it, because the closer you get to skill ceiling, the more risky a 1v1 becomes on defense.
answering before I watch the video: it all depends on my teammates position but in priority top to bottom my choices are probably- cut and disrupt ball carrier, demo off ball, rotate back post, rotate near post. The reality is you get to make a lot of these choices together.
I watched a Johnny vid from years ago and was keen on remembering his 2s idealogy at the time. One person pressures the ball, one person is responsible for net. Even if the far player can challenge the ball, the near player simply cant cover the net at the time. Its a flow chart. can the other person make a save based on where theyre at? Yes, challenge ball. No? Dont challenge, steal boosts, fake challenges, look menacing
People underestimate just how menacing their own nameplate looks to the chump on the other team with the ball. Let your nameplate do the work lol
Back post pilgrimage is a journey not for the faint of heart ♥️
I'd love to see a video breaking down playstyles: how to form playstyles, how to recognize and work around your teammates playstyle, and how recognize and counter opponents playstyle.
I think the difference in mentality between high/low level play is cus at lower level play challenging early will work more often cus people need more time to set up what they want to do and they just have less options available due to mechanics. At higher level people can react and act faster so a quick challenge will get countered more often hence the person closer to net wants to wait and give his teammate more time to get back, and while they're getting back they can disrupt the play. If the player in net tries challenge early the offensive players could potentially get it around them with all the different options available and then there's no one left to defend, by waiting there's always a defender in net and a disruptive challenge still happens. As Jack said, it's their job (especially the one rotating back I'd say) to read each other and the play in order to make it work cus this can vary a lot
I feel like an under rated thing talked about is just your presence in high level rocket league
Going far post takes you away from being in the play ( so you have no presence) , when I beat one I always rear cam check and depending on where the person I beat is will either determine pushing the ball or controlling if they do try cut even their presence can make me panic flick bad touch’s etc
Hey Jack and Johnny, first off massive fan of you both for years now appreciate the content keep it up. I recognized whilst watching that a lot of the ideas illustrated in the video were immediately understandable to me as I could visualise them and the issues with the alternatives in real game scenarios straight away, chalk this up to just having played those situations more than most and against players who play it right more of the time (I’m gc2).
Though I could imagine that if I didn’t have that knowledge base to draw from (such is the case for lower ranked players) just looking at a (impeccably drawn props Jack) diagram, it could be a lot harder to keep track of the different situations, why and when what’s better and apply them to real game scenarios both in your head and in game, as to truly understand it.
I suspect you guys have plenty of this in TNR (I don’t have it I’m broke lol) but I think having replays to illustrate (both pro and likely even better, lower ranks) could really aid in understanding for lower ranked players, particularly for hotly debated topics such as this one. May be a tall order as I’m sure you’re both very busy in the scene but think it may help. Otherwise, great vid keen for more!
This is fantastic guys, thanks so much. I'm a GC3 trying to coach some champ friends to GC- Will share this with them.
Ironically in reviewing a 2s replay of theirs we had a variation of this exact scenario where our guy, lets call him 'player A' had stolen the opponents corner and could challenge from close behind with his full boost, the opponents were low, we shouldve known they were low, instead of challenging... player A went following the side-line to rotate and our goal side player (player B) double jump dive challenged, actually still in the opponents final 3rd, winning it hard... He smashed it off the opponents corner which resulted in basically a pass to the opponents to long shoot in, it resulted in a goal before our player A could even get back from his pointless sideline rotation.
I said to the guys... Player B should almost never challenge in that scenario and certainly never double jump challenge if you dont need to. Primarily because it wasnt yet dangerous with the ball near the opponents corner but He needed to start by keeping his distance and trying to read where the ball is going to go, maybe fake challenge to buy player A time to get the challenge in (something it seems champs find very uncomfortable to do) and make player A his b* (minion) and have him use some of his 100 boost to cut and force for him. It also felt listening to his reasoning that he didnt actually realise that it was a defensive scenario for his team where him challenging the ball didnt make sense. He just thought.. I can win this 50/beat the opponent to this so BANG... he didnt realise that beating an opponent to a ball and smashing it off their corner is not good if his teamate is out of the play.
I don't think you guys really covered what Player B would do if stuck in the 1v2 in a situation where the player A is stuck out of the play and unable to get back.
Would appreciate Jack's opinion on it (not Johnny's xD i saw him in the showmatch).
But i said to the guys, if player A actually wasnt full boost, couldnt recover in any way to apply pressure to the opponents and they were countering 2v1, then player B needs to just look for an opportunity to challenge the ball asap, but in a way that sends the ball to safe position and trying to stay in the play thereafter (no double jump challenges). I.e. control a 50/50 to a corner or sidewall, create a slowplay scenario if he himself can take control of the ball somehow. ideally challenge before the opponents have proper control. You cant give 2v1 players time to take proper control of the ball, they will have too many options that cannot be stopped with a shadow style, 1v1 defensive approach, primarily a bump/demo.
Edit: We need content like this to counter cookie cutter stupid crap from low level content creators like SpookLuke who indocterine bad habits into young, impressionable viewers.
Cheers Guys.
Dude I love this video. Please do more! This is great educational/teaching content to learn about RL and play better.
13:00 i can’t believe nobody brought up that the left enemy could go for a demo on the last man (your teammate who is back). it’ll be incredibly hard to go for a demo on someone who is also going for a demo.
In these situations the crux is ball control: if the opponent is about to gain solid control you need to buy time/disrupt, but most low sense players see this as chasing. They don’t understand fundamentally that chasing is forcing touches when there is no opponent control/threat established, or that you may be trying to pressure the ball. Conversely, people pressuring the ball often end up following through or making a bad touch when they didn’t intend to because they think their teammate didn’t come for the ball soon enough, when it’s usually the case that the opponent was NOT threatening control and their teammate had plenty of time to challenge or enter play while they fake challenge / rotate back.
I hope this video reaches the people who need it most but let’s be honest, if they can’t break down a simple scenario that only takes seconds to understand and still have the confidence to post the wrong answer on Reddit, they aren’t going to watch a 30min video explaining why they are wrong 😂
that is all well and good.. but most players arent actually disrupting anything bu their own tm8s approach. Most are jsut rotating all the way back through the play, not actually disrupting the opponent
Loved the concept of the video and would love if you continued to make more videos this way
I blame spooky luke
Loving the channel and video style
Consuming these religiously
Exact content I want to see. I think a good idea for a future video might be what "hard rules" are there in rl?
Jack renowned for his art pieces since primary school days!😂
Not even to mention the times where the off ball opponent speeds mercilessly at your teammate to get a demo.
Keep it going lads, RL community needs more of this ;) (Lets go content using pro players)
- im 1800-1850 and my brain was like B every time lol, last man is already cooked.
- "Give the respect to the situation" is the single best rank up quote ive heard in my 10 years of RL.
- "Who is covering what?" is answered prolly 5 times a second for high rank RL players, because you have to understand your responsibility within the play
I know the focus is to improve at high rank but please consider the steps just before so people can go from diamond or champ and work towards these concepts. Related, maybe a video or brief mention on how to analyze and decision make based on your teammates consistency. In a perfect world everyone is doing sort of what they’re supposed to and hits the ball more often than not… but that isn’t what happens below champ. Almost ever. lol
This one had some discourse on twitter a few months ago and I'd like your guys' thoughts.
Imagine you're at the GC1 rank in a 2v2 game. The opponent has the ball in an air dribble with enough distance to go high or go low, and the other opponent is behind him to follow up.
You're on the backwall and your teammate is in the net, both of you are full boost. Who should challenge, the teammate on the wall or the teammate in the net?
My opinion is the guy on the backwall, since it's easier for them to cover high if they double or reset, while the teammate has the best chance at defending if it's a low fake.
Regardless, love the content yall been putting out, I just subbed to TNR after the last few videos convinced me, keep up the good work.
To me it always makes sense the back wall defender meets the challenge first and if they fail and the challenge continues towards net the defender in goal now must attack.
as a GC2, it rarely matters which one challenges, whoever is quicker/has been more aggressive in the game usually goes(this is where comms get important).
Either the man on the backwall goes, covering the high so that the shot goes low,
OR the man on the ground goes for the ball directly, forcing the attacker to change the course of the ball.(the challenger must not get faked, otherwise the man on the wall is awkward.)
Either way as long as one man challenges quickly, there should never be a goal. At very high levels there are more possibilities for the offence, but even at high GC it is good to never assume they can clear the first man with a reset, then still follow up with a double (this coming from someone who is more mechanical than they are good at rl😂)
its a good question and ur opinion has a pretty good logic but it's not perfect.
i think its the opposite. the guy in the net must challenge first and cover the low option.
during an air dribble, most of the time, the first player challenge for cover the low option. because the net is below the backboard, and if ur opponent take a flip reset, he has to use his reset for beat u. if u cover the high option and u assume ur opponent will use his reset and not fake it, u risk to be beated by the fake, and ur team mate has to deal with an opponent with a flip reset available. and the sooner someone use a reset, the more the last defender has time to react even if u are beat by the flip reset
its basicaly the same thing than defend an oponent dribbling in the ground. u cover the low option and the ball goes above ur head. dosent matter if u are beat, ur team mate has the ball.
an air dribble is the same thing. the player who air dribbling has the choice to beat u with a flip reset or a really good touch of air dribble. force him to beat u by throwing the ball on the back board by covering the low option. ur team mate will get the possession if u do ur job correctly
@@prone1277 Yes this is correct. The guy on the ground should challenge first and force the ball high for the defender on backboard, who can take possession, power clear, 50, etc.
I thought the same as you, but then thought maybe the guy on the ground should force it high as you should in most situations, (don't let them get below or fake you), this to the backboard player. Still not entirely sure though as a GC1 player myself.
Yes! More of these videos!
I will answer if I was in that situation i will got straight, STRAIGHT into the near post goal side, so be as fast as you can to the goal, if opponents are slow you can demo the left one.
I think that if you're at a lower rank (champ and below), you will be better off just almost always rotating arround, especially when you are in front of the ball and not behind the opponent.
This assumes RL players are actually struggling wiht the answer because they are smart... most struggle bc they autopilot and just chase after the ball.
Simplest answer, dont end up in this situation. But what i always keep in mind as 1st man, i need to force a shot out or disrupt the opponents play.
I mean ideally sure but you’re going to end up in this situation regardless eventually.
You will always end up in this situation eventually, even if you're a very high level player.
Best answer, this scenario shouldn't really happen if you're positioning correctly, but if it does then you should try to cut off the play for your teammate.
Simpler answer: Don't play RL
Fantastic vid!!!!
Being a Johnny boi stream watcher.. I knew all this.. nd scenarios.. was here to see how they articulate all the possibilities and Jack did great with the conclusion 👌
more of these videos!
The distance to net is different. If the ball is already in corner pretty much, and you go near post you can bump your teammate or hit the ball over them. It doesn't matter if they are facing forward/back, demo A get post in the reddit post. You shouldn't put all your resources in corners nothing will be accomplished by one player especially in 2s.Just another bit of variances in decisions making based on where the ball is, in the post it's closer to wall and both opponents got momentum towards corner....
Also want to add, I see this alot. I always demo A on defense, going near post on defense is almost always a recipe for disaster. Even if your teammate is backwards, they will likely save it across and if you demo A the ball is already there. The only time I'd consider demoing/going ball B is if I'm side on to the play.
As you mentioned, the position in the original post is a 1v2 no matter how you rotate, the opponents are just too far to catch up and the most you can do is go straight to net (try and grab some small pads of course) and pray for your teammate, so there is no sense analyzing it in terms of disruption. The revised position and the one subsequently talked about makes the necessary assumption that you can interfere with the play. I won't talk about how it's not a "recipe for disaster" like you say because I feel it's well explained enough in the video on why it works. I encourage you to try and incorporate more ball side rotations in your game (assuming you are higher than, like, gold). It will be awkward at first, you will mess up and over step, your teammate will get mad at you-but that's part of improving. It's much harder for you to read the opponent's play while also trying to read if/when your teammate wants to challenge, which is why the blanket method of 'go back post' is so comforting and consistent, but it is rarely the 'most effective' play.
Regardless of what is the 'best' play is right at the moment, the important thing is to be adaptive. The plan you had half a second ago may no longer be the best based on what changed on the field: teammate turned to challenge, opponent hooks wide to pass, opponent not dribbling quick enough, etc. Try to not get stuck on one point of view because Rocket League is a very fluid and dynamic game.
As an addition, save your replay anytime you or your teammate is in a 1v2 and get scored on (or even if someone made a clutch save). Analyze it later to see if you think some other method of rotating would've been better. Boring, I know, but it is really useful. Hindsight can really be 20/20, if you keep an open mind of course :D
@@drapex0072 I'm a coach. I agree with the video, I was just adding more specifically to defense. The distance to your net is what I'm looking at here. The options change when you're closer vs father from net. When you're on defense it's silly to rotate into your teammate. If there's space and i can catch up I will cut in but that's different from what I'm talking about, good advice generally though 🙂
@@jules4631 Ah, I see now. I get what you mean with two players in the corners and I agree. I kinda looked over that part, my bad.
Naaa this is going to fuck all my ranked games. Every champ 3 and his Nan are going to be rotating front post in every situation now “because Jack said”
Infact they do that anyway. Proceed gents
Depends on way too many variables personally. I do something different for a large number of reasons. There are 3 other players with their own play styles and ability to play. Depending on what my game sense is in the moment I might feel like one option is more advantageous than another. If my teammate can’t control the ball on the wall but can ground to air dribble out of nowhere and their 50/50 game is in point, I’ll force more in the air and on the wall so they can always collect and beat the opponent for advantageous positions in the ground to keep them away from uncomfortable positions on the walls
However if my teammate plays full rotations I may make a full rotation with a demo attempt instead of cutting to establish a consistent play style for my teammate
If my teammate believes they’re right, they are and I won’t improve our game by disagreeing, even if they’re not actually right and we get scored on
It’s better to take a chance on your opponent being right and letting them learn from their mistakes than forcing them to read the play you believe is best
Being more readable for your teammate is the only way to improve
Answer before watching: I'd take B and threaten a demo on the guy on ball to force a play. And then either I get the demo and m8 gets ball or more likely, he makes a forced play and then I turn left to look for a demo on the other opponent as I rotate towards far post to deal with the outcome of my m8s challenge on the play. Or turn early if he gets a dead 50/something I can instantly follow up.
Situation from twitch chat today
-“The ball would never move if 2 perfect players were playing against each other”.
I want a full nextrank video with Jack and Johnny going over that with epic pen.
If you find yourself often in this scenario, you're probably a shait mate ngl. Think about it. Why are we so overextended, leaving mate in 1v2? 😂
I think this advice should change for champ and below. Until everyone has consistent enough fundamental skill then any risking any chance of ending up in the same corner of your TM is just a straight no-no imo.
we're trying to rank up after all, and unfortunately even if we could perform the optimal / 'correct' pro play, it's actually not the best option in a rank where players don't have a proper read on the ball and outcomes.
Couldn't disagree more. The level you see in diamond-champ now is arguably around that seen in some early RLCS seasons and is testament to how much the average player has improved. The average player won't keep improving if they don't keep trying to make the objectively best plays. Especially in a positional and challenge based sense. Those are the true fundamentals. This is why you see platinums who can flip reset but cant do the basics of challenging for their teamate or shadow defence. People arent focusing on improving in the most impactful aspects for being a genuinely good player.
Attitudes like yours, one shared by low level content creator coaches is genuinely harming the communities growth. I saw a video where SpookLuke said the same as you just did. I also saw him say that at any level below champ, just bang the ball in every scenario, don't try to take control, dont try to catch the ball, dont try flicks, dont try slow plays... because you won't be able to do it, you will just be slow, get challenged and dunked on etc....
This type of rhetoric is frankly crazy and results in really unrounded players. You need to try make the best play for the scenario. who cares what the rank is. If you and your solo q tm8 end up car body language confusing eachother because of it, then who cares, you both need to make that mistake enough times to learn.... like higher level players already did. Don't wait until you are that 51% win rate 1000 game a season bot greifing GC1 lobbies by being that guy who bangs every ball and rotates backpost relgiously... Improving as a player isnt about the result/MMR, it is about the process.
@@christor2907 you misunderstand, I AM saying they need to adapt, but more than jack does. as for level, RCLS equivalent is nonsense, sure the AVERAGE lvl is similar to RLCS season 2ish now but the consistency is most definitely not. Diamond has triple reset-ers, that can't save a gold flick, and at the other end there are those that can't even flip on kickoff yet, and wait in net like 2016 Gibbs, the skill variance is absolutely massive, more so than ssl. when the consistency disappears the plan does too. the only thing you CAN do adapt, towards the worst case scenario because no one the field is consistent. far less than any pro at any stage of RLCS. if you want to argue RLCS levels it's like the skill of season 4 with twice the whiffs of season 1 but multiply that by random team mates who you've never practised with, no comms, smurfs, and 1 goal quitters and your closer to the truth.
20 minutes for a single position?
While I didnt really learn anything new in this vid cause I already knew it, I think its a great way to teach some things.
Im not a huge fan of the visualisation thought since I like to listen to it as a podcast and it can get hard to follow (I assume when youre talking about stuff for high GCs or even SSLs more and more people will be like me in that regard, but for this level it should be fine for most🤔)
W video
the idea of back post rotation is that is a baseline for idiots. like we tell terrrible players not to do stuff because we want them to have good habits. then from there u adjust an make calls about breakig from it. thing is tho i dont think most champ an around there realise how many times they break the rotation on whim. its not like u can see a logic to alot of it. seems like they just pick things on a whim and thats why u get arguments. dunnin kruger effect messes with the debate tho also.
If they are both opponents are ahead of you against one defender, they either score or get a clear you need to get first to, what is even the question? Rotate back as fast as possible in a 2v2, the shortest route/pads/boost if close route is the way. You can always rotate back too slow, but you cant rotate back too fast if both opponents have the ball and heading towards your goal.
Id just like to say that the car near us is roughly half a tile long and the far car is nearly 3 tiles big. Far player should cover net as its almost the same size as the net. Games ez
Man definitely more of this style 1000% not a lot of content and strategy for the 1700+ range
Simply given the fact most ppl dont pass makes it an extra easy choice
You both miss the most annoying option... Ballside not to challenge, but to grab the 100 boost and do nothing. Best solution, dont solo que 😂
Why are you talking about backpost rotation in 2vs2 like rotation matters at all in 2vs2.
You spent a good 15 minute repeating yourself and the rest of the time reading comments. Could have been half the length.