Funny story> I tested injection pumps. Customer brings in a Toroflow injection pump to be tested off a boat. It tests perfect and requires no work. He comes back a week later and said the pump we tested blew up his engine. It sucked water up the wet exhaust and hydrolocked the engine We told him it must have ran backwards. He replied it was our fault as the engine can't run backwards. I put the Injection pump on the stand and showed him it would indeed run in either direction. Later we found out he had two engines. One right hand rotation and one left hand. He had both starters off and had put the left hand starter on the right hand engine. Once the engine cranked it promptly sucked up water from the exhaust which was submerged in water.
Once GM figured out they could indeed run backwards they reconfigured the injection pump to correct the problem. Seems even the trucks would run backwards. A driver would stop on a steep grade and the truck would roll backwards and the driver would let out the clutch. The engine would stall and then start turning backwards. The startled driver would then find the truck would have multiple speeds in reverse while trying to shift the thing. If they ran it long enough flames would be coming out the intake with no oil pressure as the pump was pumping backwards.
Just looking at the leaf spring stack on this thing makes me grit my teeth anticipating the next bump or pothole in the road! Driving these things empty must have been a bone-jarring experience……..😮 Looking at the bare frame in back brings me back to the early 80’s when a friend of mine purchased a ‘67-‘72 Chevy pickup that was missing it’s bed and we decided to fabricate a wooden flatbed for it out in his parents garage. It was about a week long project, the final couple of days being the careful application of multiple layers of clear varnish the get the new wooden bed looking like a jewel! Once complete, the inaugural ride was performed by his little brother who promptly began tooling around in circles at the end of their cul-de-sac and ended with a loud “BANG” as he rolled the thing and scattered our freshly finished wooden bed in all directions at the end of the street………😂
i used to work as a reciever, and truckers were always looking around our place for something they could put in an empty truck to return. I couldn't understand why they wanted to help out the company they complained about, until they explained the joys of bobtailing home after a long day :) that was when GPS was becoming cheap enough to put it in every pallet. Truckers used to being alone and away from the boss would start getting texts if they stood around talking for too long and a computer someplace wanted to know WTF.
1964 wow! If that old work horse could talk! Think of all the fine cus words and early morning flatulence that old interior has endured! That’s why the driver side door drops down when you open it ! It just looks so rugged! Dad had a ,1966 Chevy, with a straight six ,4 wheel drive, and 4:56 gears. He used it for pushing snow! He had a Fisher plow on it ! It was a half or 3/4 ton! One tough truck! He went out on Christmas of 1966,to push snow, he had contracts with local grocery stores, and what not. My poor Mom, was so pissed! But, he did it to make extra money for the family! It wasn’t his fault it snowed! 😂
Back in 69, my first summer job was at Harper Detroit Diesel in Toronto. The mechanics referred to these as Bedford Diesels. I came to Canada in very late 65 from Scotland, where my dad was a truck driver. Bedford where a slightly lighter duty truck in the UK. The Bedford had a unit construction cab, possibly influenced by what the Americans brought to the war effort. Back in the 60’s a lot of older trucks where still in active trunk service. Many where “ coach built “ cabs, wooden frame skinned with wooden panels, and varnished. They looked a lot better than you’d imagine from the description, as there where still a lot of craftsmanship in the workforce in those days. I remember being in lots of trucks that had the push out windshields for ventilation. Most still had the engine crank handle capability. Gardiner Diesels where highly desirable engines, followed by Cummins. Commers had an opposed piston 3 cylinder 2 stroke ( 6 pistons ) engine. As for Detroits back in the 60’s and a bit later trucks typical of the size Steve featured here many where repowered from gas to diesel. 53 series Detroits where popular. These two stroke engines has 53 cubic inches displacement per cylinder, “ Jimmy’s “ where 8V-71’s. These engines had 71 cu in per cylinder. The unique thing about Detroit diesels was that not only did come in a wide selection of block configurations, 2,3,4,6 cyl Inline engines, but also V6, V8, V12, and 2 V8 blocks could be bolted together and make a V 16. In non automotive applications, these engines could be coupled together and you could have 4 V12 engines driving one output shaft. This is just a general outline of the various options Detroit produced. An in-line 3’ 4’ cylinder head and exhaust manifolds for the most part fit a V6, and V8 respectively. All the bearings, fuel pumps, injectors, some oil coolers, rockers etc where interchangeable. By re positioning the gear train you could change the direction of rotation. If you did inadvertently get an engine running backwards, the oil pump obviously produce pressure. One more little bit of trivia about Detroits is when at idle they typically run on about 5-10 psi oil pressure. I knew a Detroit field service tech who had a governor cover from an old engine that came out of a navy landing craft. Where it would normally stamped Stop, Run, Fast, instead of fast it said “ Battle “. These governors would enable the engine to go wide open, as the landing craft was build for a one way trip to the beach as fast as possible.
Your correct about the landing craft detroits. That's why the had the hand knob 2 bolt valve covers. It one of the injectors seized, they would remove a cover and had a special purpose wrench to force the rack into full power.
The designation toro flow refers to the toroidal form cast into the piston to enhance the turbulence in the combustion chamber to improve the combustion efficiency of the engine.
Well, Steve...you taught me something new again! Being a big fan of the Detroit diesel and being around heavy duty trucks my whole life, I can't believe I have never seen or even heard mention of a toro-flow diesel! I am so happy I found your channel , I have learned much!
Yes, I agree! Steve, is a plethora of motor vehicle knowledge, it’s so cool that he goes to the, man’s mall every day ! We don’t see all the prep work, like the hacking down of tall weeds, not to mention, all those articles he has, researched, and highlighted! Motor trend was very foolish to cancel his show! Great work, Sir Steve! Lord of the Junk yard crawl, and all things Automotive!
I cleaned up a farm that the owners son had one of these engines in a Ford pickup . He had told me about it and it was on the farm laying buy a scrap iron pile. He said he was setting a a stop light in the late 70s and heard another one go buy that was in a pickup wrecker . He said if you ever heard one it sounded like nothing else.
I worked in an automotive machine shop in Louisville, KY back in the early 1970's and Pepsi Cola had a whole fleet of GMC trucks with the Toro Flo diesel. The biggest problem with that engine was blowing head gaskets. The owner of the shop said that the problem was not enough head bolts, and they were not big enough. Several of those engines developed cracks in the engine blocks on the right front corner near the corner head bolt about 1 1/2" below the head/block surface. I repaired cracks on at least six trucks with the engines still in the frame. Back then Pepsi Cola would send us a set of Toro Flo heads every week, or two to get reconditioned. We made special brackets to hold the cylinder head so we could surface the heads on out Van Norman Rotary Broach. Those were good running engines if not abused.
My neighbor drove a GMC with a Toro Flow engine, He was known to be very careful and very conscientious about running his 5 ton delivery truck.... He got an astounding 500,000.0 miles on the engine without any reported trouble.... They traded it off at that point ... after that point He drove another truck but then was called by his company to drive a bus all over the U.S. .... He hated the work but was surrounded by good people who did care about him and did care for him...
My first job when I got out of the military back in 1974 was for an excavation contractor. He had about 4 or 5 dump trucks when I went to work for him and one of them was a GMC 10 yard dump truck that had a V6 ToroFlo in it. That was backed up with a 10 speed RoadRanger. I was told that this was a truck that someone had a bunch of old junk trucks and made one out of them. It also had an air brake reservoir that was about the size of a quart thermos bottle so not a lot of braking power. This thing was a dog! He also had 2 new GMC dump trucks that had 6V53 engines in them backed up with a 5 and a 4 speed Browning. These trucks had a lot more power.
I drove my grandfather’s 1962 GMC Pickup with a V-6 with three on the tree. It had a 6 foot bed and was kind of a stock turquoise color, or maybe it was just fading. I was amazed at the power and acceleration, and was throwing the dirt and gravel on a Kansas country road. Gramps and an Uncle were taking cattle to market and I was driving the pickup back to the farm a few miles. My cousin was trying to keep up with me in his Dad’s 1966 Chevrolet fleet side pickup with a 283 V-8. Yes, we were in our mid teens and driving like bats out of hell. Would have made epic drone footage. Maybe it exists in never never land somewhere. LOL.
My grandfather had a 1961 GMC In that same turquoise color. His said V-6 on it. I'm not sure if it was the 305 or 351. Neat truck that also had the factory chrome dress up, which was surprising to me because he was extremely frugal. When he passed away in 1974, my uncle took it over and drove it til 1989.
Yes, GMC was almost "independent" back in the day compared to the other divisions in a way. By 1972 or so, they started to become more homogeneous with the rest of GM. No VIN, can't win, but possibly made at the Pontiac, MI facility which was a massive complex in its day. There's always a chance that the frame mounted tank was added as an RPO option or by an upfitter at some point. There were lots of unique options back then and who knows. Of course, you could be correct and it's a mix and match of parts. That would of course happen out in the "wild" after many years of use. Whatever worked was often used. Fleet Owner magazine is still around. I have a subscription to it and it comes to my office.
I only remember seeing one of the Toro Flow engines. It was repurposed into a portable power unit for a sawmill, a concrete mixer and grain elevator for a farm. It still had the frame and front axle and the massive transmission had a big iron pulley bolted to it. I think they may still use it.
i've seen a few of those configurations, which is interesting since there were "portable" hit or miss engines on carts that rural areas would push around to run the washing machine etc.
A truck from the days when America was great that first time around. Our attitudes about our country as a whole reflected in our manufactured products.
My dad owned a 1966 GMC 4000 COE with the Toro-Flo engine, a four-speed transmission, and believe it or not, a single speed rear. That thing was a brute, 55 mph top speed, but that was uphill or down. He also put dual exhaust on it and made the mufflers from well casings. Boy, that sound was unforgettable. I sure wish that I had that truck. I was 16 when I first started driving it to haul our equipment and round bales of hay.
Hi Steve, great video on this GMC diesel engine and truck. I believe the axle is designed that way to accommodate a tandem axle. I could be wrong, tho. On the farm, we had a 75ish GMC 9500 with a V8 Detroit engine. I'm not sure which V8 it was. I believe Steve has done a video of a similar truck. It's the model before the General and the square nosed Brigadier became the norm. The fuel pumps on diesels are called injector pumps and can be very expensive to replace or rebuild. I remember the big GMC truck because it was a retired Coca-Cola truck. The coke wave was still on it, but the company name was gone. Of course, it had a 2-tone red and white paint scheme. We lived a mile from the main rd, and while pulling a load that straight piped, Detroit could be heard coming up through the gears. Without question, those Detroits had a very unique sound, and the high revs made it really sound awesome. A runaway Diesel is one that starts to use its own oil as its fuel source. This normally happens to turbo diesel engines but can also happen to non-turbos. The turbo begins to leak oil, or the piston rings are worn, allowing oil to push past them, creating an uncontrollable fuel source. The only way to stop a runaway diesel is to shut off its air intake, or the extraneous fuel flow is eliminated or it suffers severe damage (seized bearings, broken rods, crank, etc. ). I've never experienced a runaway Diesel but I can only imagine it's not a pleasant experience. I'm sure a real diesel mechanic can chime in and correctly explain it better. This truck was used on a handful of occasions in the local Christmas parade to pull Santa's 🎅 (played by my grandfather) float/sleigh. I remember weeks before that having the chore of cleaning that truck up. Chopping away at caked on mud etc. Cases of black paint to clean up the undercarriage etc. One of my uncles drove it during the parade, and my grandmother, as Mrs Claus, would be sitting in the passenger seat waving to the crowds and slinging candy out of the window. Have a blessed day everyone 🤙🏼 Namaste 🙏🏼
Dude, you have great stories to tell,I think I'm actually disappointed if you don't have a good story to tell with my morning junk yard crawl,be well my brother...
It's not so much that the Detroit revs high, it simply sounds like it is due to being a 2-stroke. There are twice as many exhaust impulses per rpm than a 4 stroke.
@@williamcavanaugh1415Hi 👋🏼Mr Cavanaugh, thanks for the heartwarming comment. I've received a few comments similar to yours in the past. Man, is it costing me too! My head is getting a little bigger to the point where I have to go out and get fitted for another hat. (I'm always looking for an excuse) I personally prefer Resistol over Stetson. I own quite a few Stetsons, but they are out numbered 2 to 1 to my Resistol collection. Most of the people I’ve met or observed who are at the top levels in their chosen fields have these attitudes of gratitude and “radical humility.” After all, when so many high achievers reach for their statuette or championship trophy, they say, “First I’d like to thank God.” It’s almost as if they can’t help themselves, they’re so grateful for their accolade, but even more than that, they know that there’s a Force in the Universe way bigger than they are that allows them to act, sing, write, compete, or design. And if we adopt this kind of an attitude, we’ll inspire others to do the same. If we practice gratitude as opposed to maintaining an attitude of entitlement, we’ll automatically extend inspiration wherever we go. Being grateful helps remove the influence of our egos, which is certain that we’re better than everyone else. An attitude of gratitude allows us to adopt the radical humility that’s very persuasive in helping others connect with the Spirit that unites us all. Without exception, I begin every day of my life with an expression of gratitude. As I look in the mirror to begin my daily ritual of shaving, I say, “Thank you, God, for this life, for my body, for my family and loved ones, for this day, and for the opportunity to be of service. Thank you, thank you, thank you!" So thanks again! Gratitude and humility send signals to all who meet us that we’re all connected to something larger than life itself. I apologize for the slow response. I'm in Roxboro, NC at a music festival and while packing up to head on down the rd I spotted your comment and a reminder that sometimes, the person viewing you from afar, loving you in silence, is the one capable of loving you the greatest. I once read that the energy created by the wings of a butterfly can be felt a 1000 miles away. If this is true, can you imagine how far love is felt and how your comment changed this day in my existence on this side of heaven. Have a blessed day 🤙🏼 Namaste 🙏🏼
The engine in your used Coke truck may have been powered with a 53 series Detroit. The rocker covers would be bolted down around the perimeter of the cover as common with gasoline engines. The 71 series engines had hand hand tightened mushroom headed knobs. There would be two on each V style engine, and 4 on an inline 6-71. On early engines the cover might be embossed “ General Motors Diesel “, later they where stamped “ Detroit Diesel “. Newer engines had cast aluminum rocker covers, that had small diameter threaded studs with rubber grommets to tighten down the covers. It should be noted that the cylinder heads, and rockers are sealed with rubber gaskets that are basically o rings. They use a fire ring seal to contain the combustion pressure inserted on top of the cylinder liner. In the case of the 53 series engine it was typically governed at 2,800 rpm, so the attenuation could result in permanent hearing loss if the operator was in close quarters. Typically sawmill boom boat operators suffered from this. These engined came in 2,3,4, V6, and V8’s. Typically they would be used in construction / logging equipment, marine, and vocational trucks like garbage, and cement trucks. Not big power except in naval patrol boats. See movie : Apocalypse Now.
@@georgerenton965 👋🏼 Hi Mr. Renton. All I remember about the engine was it did say Detroit on the valve cover and it was painted in a turquoise colour. You are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to these engines. Its a sound I miss as a child in the city buses, dump trucks etc. I remember the movie. Scary film. Even scarier what they went through. Three members of The Grateful Dead (Mickey Hart, Bill Kreutzmann, and Phil Lesh) improvise on percussion instruments with several other musicians to provide incidental music for the movie Apocalypse Now. Thanks for commenting 🤙🏼 Have a blessed day, Namaste 🙏🏼
Uncle had 2 or 3 of these, tandem drives, 478 c.i. 4 cycle, naturally asperated. Had a 'G' model knuckle boom log loader and a saddle tank on the back behind the cab. 5x3 tranny. Not fast but reliable. Ran the loader off the truck engine off p.t.o. This was a Chevy cab but also had GMC cabs too. Then went to Macks.
Those older trucks all have such bad ass body styles n the wheels on them are always Rusty pieces of iron it just looks so good. I am absolutely in 💕. Great video 👍😊
I drove a 64 GMC 10 yard dump truck with a pusher axle in the summer of 66 between my junior and senior years of high school . The truck was gas powered and it too was a screamer as it had straight exhaust . V-6 , 5-speed , 2-speed axle and it would stay right with the other dump trucks . The rear end was quite different as the axles had splines that went in the outer hubs and I had one strip and the local GMC dealer had one in stock . I also had a center bolt break that held the spring pack together as seen in the video . We changed it out one day and it was a very hard job with the dump bed down and taking the u-bolts loose and getting the pieces of the center bolt out and the new one in was a hell of a job . Good $7.00 an hour job for a 17 year old kid and we worked from sun up to sun down , man it was one of our really hot Arkansas summers . The whole month of August was the hottest and we were hauling about 1,000 feet from where we loaded to where we were dumping and never could get out of 1-st gear and the dust was terrible . Great GMC dump truck and a great job making awesome cash money and $7.00 an hour was a lot of money in 1966 . Great video Steve .
351 commercial, GMC only made 351E and 351C variants. The E engines were only available in light duty trucks, that being said the light duty motors had magnum heads and magnum intakes but never labeled them as such.
The data plate inside the cab will only say 351, the difference from a big truck is the HP rating is always different. The 351C engines were rated lower due to the non magnum heads and intake. What year is yours and what series was it?
I have a Toro Flow 478 block. One major difference between the diesel and gas versions in the GMC V6 family was the Toro Flow had a balance shaft. It also had larger main bearings.
@@TimGrimes-q2q Mr. B. Here ! I look up your comment and GMC did use Oldsmobile engine 1957 to 1959 they called it 370 ( Olds 371 ) 292 hp at 4200 rpm ! 🤔🤯🤔🤯 ☕️☕️🍩
Steve, another excellent video. Thank you so much for bringing this engine to light. I've known about these engines for a long time. I've never seen one in real life but I've read about them on several occasions and they're very interesting to me. Thank you again so much! Look forward to the next episode and I agree with you. The junkyard can definitely be a very good classroom
Good morning Steve ,I use to drive a Dump truck . Of course it was a 65 GMC . The Jimmy's had a lot of torque . A lot of fun hauling dirt to the Dump . 1 load of dirt in an hour, to and from the dump to the job site. Lol.👍🇺🇸
In the mid 1970's, I worked on the city buses in Gainesville, Fl. The original buses which had been purchased from Wallace Brown who owned and operated the bus system, were powered by Toro Flow General Motors v6 diesels. I rebuilt several and did all sorts of maintenance and repair on them. They were not particularly hardy or durable engines . They had many characteristic problems and were not comparable at all to the quality of the Detroit Diesels which we later had. I own one of them today which is in a school bus. It would sure be a challenge to get that old thing running!
Like the 'Motorific" model truck he showed. Had a set myself as a kid in the late 60's ; found it again about 15years ago and started to collect the tracks / vehicles again as a hobby
they make for fun wall art. I just picked up some NyLint toys left for free on the side of a driveway and I have an old Model A grill converted into a cabinet with shelves and pexiglass in the radiator section to hold the smaller ones.
The Motorific Torture Track! It's Ideal! The cars and truck were very detailed and realistic for toys. They were battery powered and batteries back then didn't last very long and were a continuous expense that competed with the baseball card money.
As short as the frame rails are, I would think it was a dump bed, or a tow truck. The tank in the cab could have been used for hydraulic oil. I’m curious if there is a PTO on that truck.
If you have never been to Macungie PA for the annual antique truck show, you should. Too late for this year as I think it finishes up this weekend. Antique trucks are just as intriguing as cars are.
The Ford 6.7 has the intake manifolds running over the top of the valve covers and into the heads where you would normally expect the exhaust to exit. But unlike this Toroflow the 6.7 Power Strokes have the exhaust inside the valley between the heads. According to Ford engineers it keeps much more heat focused and a much shorter track to the turbo which is also mounted in between the cylinder heads. Ford started with a clean slate to design the 6.7 Power Stroke after the mediocre and problematic 6.0 and the horrible 6.4. Both designed by companies other than Ford. But I'm pretty sure it is BMW who has taken credit for that particular feature from a turbo design dating back to the 90's. It would be hard to make the claim that GMC was first as this is a naturally aspirated engine and the exhaust is still on the outside. But it is interesting how design features that seem brand new can usually be traced back may decades.
As a apprentices in a diesel shop , we swapped gas to toroflows. Low end torque was amazing , Customers swapped engines mostly for mobile home totters.The transmission we used was a Clark double disc 5 speed, with the 2 speed rear end you could GO fast. Fun engine to work on. Yes the injector pump was crappy. This was early 70's and the gas crisis . Thanks for the show and tell.
Wow! This is the first I've heard ANYBODY even mention about 4 stroke Toro Flow diesel engines since learning about them in Diesel Mechanic school! Word was that it wasn't the most desirable engines to have among those in the trucking industry, because of numerous problems with them.
That's probably why most of us never heard of them. I never knew this engine was produced. I'd like to re-engineer that injection pump to make it reliable and then rebuild the engine. It would be uniquely different to have than the two-strokes that are so much more common.
Was born in 64 so by the time I saw one of those GMC diesels it was in an old truck in the 80s. At that time there was still a lot of the Chevy V8 powered old GMCs running around but not many with the GMC diesels or gas engines. Story I heard was the V6, V8 and especially V12 gassers drank fuel like crazy and the diesels just weren't very reliable. Saw a V6 gas out of a pickup apart once, the things were extremely heavy duty looking inside, like what you'd see in a diesel. I bet they shared a lot of parts.
Sorry, Steve… Not to beat you down, because you are the incrediblest walking automotive encyclopedia, but… Yes, it is a four-stroke cycle, but it doesn’t operate on the Otto cycle. It operates on the Diesel cycle. In Diesel mechanics school, they had one of these Toro-Flows in the lab and it was torn down and reassembled hundreds of times, along with a CAT, a Mack V8, Screamin’ Jimmys, Cummins… etc. Do please keep these great junkyard crawls coming!
You need to send a copy of the truck brochure that explains diesel power to the current batch of knuckleheads in Washington DC who want to “decarbonize” our country!
Those V6 GMC diesels were in the same class as the Caterpillar 3208 V8s. They were strictly a medium power unit great for up to five ton or so with good torque. That was the problem with the two stroke Detroit diesel, you really had to wind it up to get any power out of it so they were actually slower from 0-30 than a four stroke which if most of your driving is done intercity slows your deliveries down.
Maybe you should check with reality about the engine speed. It ISN'T really much different RPM wise that the other diesel motors, it's just sounds that way because of being a 2 stroke. "Driving under 30mph" has nothing to do with engine RPM either...theres this silly gizmo called a "transmission"...together with the accelerator pedal, the transmission controls how many RPMs the engine is going to spin at any given speed.....even under 30 mph. But hey, yours is a great story.👍
It seems as though the only reason that landed in the junkyard was the production of the next, bigger, better truck, and the cost to keep that one on the road.
I'm curious about the torque specs of that engine. I'm thinking it needs saved and dropped in a pickup truck with dual stacks and a giant turbo. Go roll some serious coal.
In the mid 70's I worked for a guy who had been an engineer at GM and according to him had some hand in designing the Toro Flo diesel. I drove a truck among other things for him and , yup, it had a Toro Flo. It was the cabover like in the ad you showed. I remember it being loud and gutless but I suppose all diesels were back then. Good times..
With respect may I say I believe that is a truck tractor as the frame isn’t long enough to fit a box that could handle much volume. Just my 2 cents from a retired truck driver of 47 years. 😉
The 409s in the Commercials had a big power-sapping valve notch in the bore, kinda ala the Max Wedge Mopars.. You should do something on the 704ci 'twin-six' V12s that were fitted to a limited amount of commercials too sometime. (probably the reason why not many opted for them was that they produced not much more power than the V8s or diesels and cost alot extra)
My dad had a 65 GMC tandem dump truck back in 1965 he bought new. That engine was JUNK . He traded it on a 66 GMC 9500 with a 671 that lasted for ever.
I worked for a GMC Medium Duty Truck dealer in the 90’s and I never ran across of these. I saw a 6500 with an air cooled Deutz but never a Toro-Flow. How about a “will it run” video?
The factory toque rating on that engine was less than the gas counter part. The gas version was also made in 305ci gas and 702ci you didn’t mention those.
GMC was awesome in their heyday. That same engine family begat the 305/351/401/478 V6s, the 637 V8 (gas OR diesel), and the bonkers 1960-66 702 V-12! (Essentially twin 351s with a one piece block, crank, & cam.) But a decade EARLIER, GMC made HD INLINE 6s of 302, 505, and even 707 CID!!
I remember driving those when they were new. Not as much power or torque as their big brothers. They did not have wet sleeves either. The gas tank was for the Thermo King unit if it was a refrigerated box. Otherwise it was a factory delete. Thermo King did not offer smaller diesel refrigeration units until 1978.
I have shop/rebuild manuals for the Toro-Flo engines. Be more than happy to send some scans of them if someone needs them. I hope to get my hands on one someday
My friend, had a 1970 dodge 1 ton heavy duty, and in the late 70’s, put this 478 v6 Toto flo in it, with adapter plate for the 727 torque flite trans, and a browning 3 speed under/direct/overdrive behind that..the truck, was a BEAST…he’s passed on,and I now have the truck…time has taken its toll, and while the truck is no good,,the drivetrain is still a great candidate for a new project..
Funny story> I tested injection pumps. Customer brings in a Toroflow injection pump to be tested off a boat. It tests perfect and requires no work. He comes back a week later and said the pump we tested blew up his engine. It sucked water up the wet exhaust and hydrolocked the engine We told him it must have ran backwards. He replied it was our fault as the engine can't run backwards. I put the Injection pump on the stand and showed him it would indeed run in either direction. Later we found out he had two engines. One right hand rotation and one left hand. He had both starters off and had put the left hand starter on the right hand engine. Once the engine cranked it promptly sucked up water from the exhaust which was submerged in water.
Oh, man!😮 Live and learn.
Good info.
Oops.
Once GM figured out they could indeed run backwards they reconfigured the injection pump to correct the problem. Seems even the trucks would run backwards. A driver would stop on a steep grade and the truck would roll backwards and the driver would let out the clutch. The engine would stall and then start turning backwards. The startled driver would then find the truck would have multiple speeds in reverse while trying to shift the thing. If they ran it long enough flames would be coming out the intake with no oil pressure as the pump was pumping backwards.
@@mikegoodman447 😲🤭😳🤪 crazy!
Just looking at the leaf spring stack on this thing makes me grit my teeth anticipating the next bump or pothole in the road! Driving these things empty must have been a bone-jarring experience……..😮
Looking at the bare frame in back brings me back to the early 80’s when a friend of mine purchased a ‘67-‘72 Chevy pickup that was missing it’s bed and we decided to fabricate a wooden flatbed for it out in his parents garage. It was about a week long project, the final couple of days being the careful application of multiple layers of clear varnish the get the new wooden bed looking like a jewel!
Once complete, the inaugural ride was performed by his little brother who promptly began tooling around in circles at the end of their cul-de-sac and ended with a loud “BANG” as he rolled the thing and scattered our freshly finished wooden bed in all directions at the end of the street………😂
i used to work as a reciever, and truckers were always looking around our place for something they could put in an empty truck to return. I couldn't understand why they wanted to help out the company they complained about, until they explained the joys of bobtailing home after a long day :)
that was when GPS was becoming cheap enough to put it in every pallet. Truckers used to being alone and away from the boss would start getting texts if they stood around talking for too long and a computer someplace wanted to know WTF.
1964 wow! If that old work horse could talk!
Think of all the fine cus words and early morning flatulence that old interior has endured!
That’s why the driver side door drops down when you open it !
It just looks so rugged!
Dad had a ,1966 Chevy, with a straight six ,4 wheel drive, and 4:56 gears.
He used it for pushing snow! He had a Fisher plow on it !
It was a half or 3/4 ton!
One tough truck!
He went out on Christmas of 1966,to push snow, he had contracts with local grocery stores, and what not.
My poor Mom, was so pissed! But, he did it to make extra money for the family!
It wasn’t his fault it snowed! 😂
😂Well, I'm sat in a 2023 semi right now that if it could talk about early morning flatulence, it wouldn't do so with a smile I can assure you. 😏
@@lilmike2710 yeah more like🤢🤮😵💫poor truck! LOL!
Nice to see someone has a sense of humor! Safe travels, thanks for moving, North America!
Back in 69, my first summer job was at Harper Detroit Diesel in Toronto. The mechanics referred to these as Bedford Diesels. I came to Canada in
very late 65 from Scotland, where my dad was a truck driver. Bedford where a slightly lighter duty truck in the UK. The Bedford had a unit construction cab, possibly influenced by what the Americans brought to the war effort. Back in the 60’s a lot of older trucks where still in active
trunk service. Many where “ coach built “ cabs, wooden frame skinned with wooden panels, and varnished. They looked a lot better than you’d
imagine from the description, as there where still a lot of craftsmanship in the workforce in those days. I remember being in lots of trucks that had
the push out windshields for ventilation. Most still had the engine crank handle capability. Gardiner Diesels where highly desirable engines, followed by Cummins. Commers had an opposed piston 3 cylinder 2 stroke ( 6 pistons ) engine. As for Detroits back in the 60’s and a bit later
trucks typical of the size Steve featured here many where repowered from gas to diesel. 53 series Detroits where popular. These two stroke engines has 53 cubic inches displacement per cylinder, “ Jimmy’s “ where 8V-71’s. These engines had 71 cu in per cylinder. The unique thing about Detroit diesels was that not only did come in a wide selection of block configurations, 2,3,4,6 cyl Inline engines, but also V6, V8, V12, and
2 V8 blocks could be bolted together and make a V 16. In non automotive applications, these engines could be coupled together and you could
have 4 V12 engines driving one output shaft. This is just a general outline of the various options Detroit produced. An in-line 3’ 4’ cylinder head
and exhaust manifolds for the most part fit a V6, and V8 respectively. All the bearings, fuel pumps, injectors, some oil coolers, rockers etc where
interchangeable. By re positioning the gear train you could change the direction of rotation. If you did inadvertently get an engine running backwards, the oil pump obviously produce pressure. One more little bit of trivia about Detroits is when at idle they typically run on about 5-10 psi
oil pressure. I knew a Detroit field service tech who had a governor cover from an old engine that came out of a navy landing craft. Where it would
normally stamped Stop, Run, Fast, instead of fast it said “ Battle “. These governors would enable the engine to go wide open, as the landing craft
was build for a one way trip to the beach as fast as possible.
Correction. The oil pump did NOT produce pressure!
Your correct about the landing craft detroits. That's why the had the hand knob 2 bolt valve covers. It one of the injectors seized, they would remove a cover and had a special purpose wrench to force the rack into full power.
I donˋt know what is more impressive, Steves knowledge or his endless library. 😊
The designation toro flow refers to the toroidal form cast into the piston to enhance the turbulence in the combustion chamber to improve the combustion efficiency of the engine.
Well, Steve...you taught me something new again! Being a big fan of the Detroit diesel and being around heavy duty trucks my whole life, I can't believe I have never seen or even heard mention of a toro-flow diesel! I am so happy I found your channel , I have learned much!
I concur. You said exactly what I was going to say.
Yes, I agree!
Steve, is a plethora of motor vehicle knowledge, it’s so cool that he goes to the, man’s mall every day !
We don’t see all the prep work, like the hacking down of tall weeds, not to mention, all those articles he has, researched, and highlighted! Motor trend was very foolish to cancel his show! Great work, Sir Steve!
Lord of the Junk yard crawl, and all things Automotive!
This channel is the best on TH-cam. Hopefully Stevie gets to 100,000 subscribers real soon he deserves it.
Steve is a good dude. He's even known to give a well articulated reply sometimes here in the comments.
They did mention one in tech school ,but it was a brief mention by an older instructor, and that's about all I know of em 😂
First time ever hearing about this type of Diesel engine 😊
I had a 1974 478M v6 gas in my boom truck.
Ran excellent not much problems .
Never saw a Toroflow run
I wanna hear that bad boy diesel six with duals run. What a unique sound it must have made on the road back in the day.
I cleaned up a farm that the owners son had one of these engines in a Ford pickup . He had told me about it and it was on the farm laying buy a scrap iron pile. He said he was setting a a stop light in the late 70s and heard another one go buy that was in a pickup wrecker . He said if you ever heard one it sounded like nothing else.
I worked in an automotive machine shop in Louisville, KY back in the early 1970's and Pepsi Cola had a whole fleet of GMC trucks with the Toro Flo diesel. The biggest problem with that engine was blowing head gaskets. The owner of the shop said that the problem was not enough head bolts, and they were not big enough. Several of those engines developed cracks in the engine blocks on the right front corner near the corner head bolt about 1 1/2" below the head/block surface. I repaired cracks on at least six trucks with the engines still in the frame. Back then Pepsi Cola would send us a set of Toro Flo heads every week, or two to get reconditioned. We made special brackets to hold the cylinder head so we could surface the heads on out Van Norman Rotary Broach. Those were good running engines if not abused.
My neighbor drove a GMC with a Toro Flow engine, He was known to be very careful and very conscientious about running his 5 ton delivery truck.... He got an astounding 500,000.0 miles on the engine without any reported trouble.... They traded it off at that point ... after that point He drove another truck but then was called by his company to drive a bus all over the U.S. .... He hated the work but was surrounded by good people who did care about him and did care for him...
My first job when I got out of the military back in 1974 was for an excavation contractor. He had about 4 or 5 dump trucks when I went to work for him and one of them was a GMC 10 yard dump truck that had a V6 ToroFlo in it. That was backed up with a 10 speed RoadRanger. I was told that this was a truck that someone had a bunch of old junk trucks and made one out of them. It also had an air brake reservoir that was about the size of a quart thermos bottle so not a lot of braking power. This thing was a dog! He also had 2 new GMC dump trucks that had 6V53 engines in them backed up with a 5 and a 4 speed Browning. These trucks had a lot more power.
Detroit added a 8.2 liter "Fuel Pincher" V8, 4 strocke in the late 70's and 80''s in GM trucks. Grate video Steve.
Wicked we had a 62. Gas 305 that would pull stumps. Loved GMC v6s.
This felt like the take a drink every time steve says diesel game?!
I drove my grandfather’s 1962 GMC Pickup with a V-6 with three on the tree. It had a 6 foot bed and was kind of a stock turquoise color, or maybe it was just fading. I was amazed at the power and acceleration, and was throwing the dirt and gravel on a Kansas country road. Gramps and an Uncle were taking cattle to market and I was driving the pickup back to the farm a few miles. My cousin was trying to keep up with me in his Dad’s 1966 Chevrolet fleet side pickup with a 283 V-8. Yes, we were in our mid teens and driving like bats out of hell. Would have made epic drone footage. Maybe it exists in never never land somewhere. LOL.
Life was better in the old days. Before all the poosies took over.
I've learned a lot about GMC V6 thanks to Steve. Cool story
My grandfather had a 1961 GMC In that same turquoise color. His said V-6 on it. I'm not sure if it was the 305 or 351. Neat truck that also had the factory chrome dress up, which was surprising to me because he was extremely frugal. When he passed away in 1974, my uncle took it over and drove it til 1989.
Yes, GMC was almost "independent" back in the day compared to the other divisions in a way. By 1972 or so, they started to become more homogeneous with the rest of GM. No VIN, can't win, but possibly made at the Pontiac, MI facility which was a massive complex in its day.
There's always a chance that the frame mounted tank was added as an RPO option or by an upfitter at some point. There were lots of unique options back then and who knows. Of course, you could be correct and it's a mix and match of parts. That would of course happen out in the "wild" after many years of use. Whatever worked was often used.
Fleet Owner magazine is still around. I have a subscription to it and it comes to my office.
My 1966 GMC truck had a 305 V6 in it new but that was a long time ago now it has a 327 in it
Wishing you a rapid recovery
Mr. Mags!
Modern cars are terrific but classic cars are KOOL.
I only remember seeing one of the Toro Flow engines. It was repurposed into a portable power unit for a sawmill, a concrete mixer and grain elevator for a farm. It still had the frame and front axle and the massive transmission had a big iron pulley bolted to it. I think they may still use it.
i've seen a few of those configurations, which is interesting since there were "portable" hit or miss engines on carts that rural areas would push around to run the washing machine etc.
A truck from the days when America was great that first time around. Our attitudes about our country as a whole reflected in our manufactured products.
Now we’re filled with Metrosexual’s in BMW’s who get a blister on their finger from holding their cup of latte………🙄
@@ddellwo🤣
👍
Good Morning , everyone!
Good afternoon 😉
Morning from Cleveland
Have…to…eat…the…donuts……🍩
Love the Toroflow engine!!! Million mile engine that never got recognized for what it was!!!
Wish someone would do a "will it run" video on this engine.
Pretty rare engine to run across now days!!!
My dad owned a 1966 GMC 4000 COE with the Toro-Flo engine, a four-speed transmission, and believe it or not, a single speed rear. That thing was a brute, 55 mph top speed, but that was uphill or down. He also put dual exhaust on it and made the mufflers from well casings. Boy, that sound was unforgettable. I sure wish that I had that truck. I was 16 when I first started driving it to haul our equipment and round bales of hay.
Hi Steve, great video on this GMC diesel engine and truck. I believe the axle is designed that way to accommodate a tandem axle. I could be wrong, tho. On the farm, we had a 75ish GMC 9500 with a V8 Detroit engine. I'm not sure which V8 it was. I believe Steve has done a video of a similar truck. It's the model before the General and the square nosed Brigadier became the norm. The fuel pumps on diesels are called injector pumps and can be very expensive to replace or rebuild. I remember the big GMC truck because it was a retired Coca-Cola truck. The coke wave was still on it, but the company name was gone. Of course, it had a 2-tone red and white paint scheme. We lived a mile from the main rd, and while pulling a load that straight piped, Detroit could be heard coming up through the gears. Without question, those Detroits had a very unique sound, and the high revs made it really sound awesome. A runaway Diesel is one that starts to use its own oil as its fuel source. This normally happens to turbo diesel engines but can also happen to non-turbos. The turbo begins to leak oil, or the piston rings are worn, allowing oil to push past them, creating an uncontrollable fuel source. The only way to stop a runaway diesel is to shut off its air intake, or the extraneous fuel flow is eliminated or it suffers severe damage (seized bearings, broken rods, crank, etc. ). I've never experienced a runaway Diesel but I can only imagine it's not a pleasant experience. I'm sure a real diesel mechanic can chime in and correctly explain it better. This truck was used on a handful of occasions in the local Christmas parade to pull Santa's 🎅 (played by my grandfather) float/sleigh. I remember weeks before that having the chore of cleaning that truck up. Chopping away at caked on mud etc. Cases of black paint to clean up the undercarriage etc. One of my uncles drove it during the parade, and my grandmother, as Mrs Claus, would be sitting in the passenger seat waving to the crowds and slinging candy out of the window. Have a blessed day everyone 🤙🏼 Namaste 🙏🏼
Dude, you have great stories to tell,I think I'm actually disappointed if you don't have a good story to tell with my morning junk yard crawl,be well my brother...
It's not so much that the Detroit revs high, it simply sounds like it is due to being a 2-stroke.
There are twice as many exhaust impulses per rpm than a 4 stroke.
@@williamcavanaugh1415Hi 👋🏼Mr Cavanaugh, thanks for the heartwarming comment. I've received a few comments similar to yours in the past. Man, is it costing me too! My head is getting a little bigger to the point where I have to go out and get fitted for another hat. (I'm always looking for an excuse) I personally prefer Resistol over Stetson. I own quite a few Stetsons, but they are out numbered 2 to 1 to my Resistol collection. Most of the people I’ve met or observed who are at the top levels in their chosen fields have these attitudes of gratitude and “radical humility.” After all, when so many high achievers reach for their statuette or championship trophy, they say, “First I’d like to thank God.” It’s almost as if they can’t help themselves, they’re so grateful for their accolade, but even more than that, they know that there’s a Force in the Universe way bigger than they are that allows them to act, sing, write, compete, or design. And if we adopt this kind of an attitude, we’ll inspire others to do the same. If we practice gratitude as opposed to maintaining an attitude of entitlement, we’ll automatically extend inspiration wherever we go. Being grateful helps remove the influence of our egos, which is certain that we’re better than everyone else. An attitude of gratitude allows us to adopt the radical humility that’s very persuasive in helping others connect with the Spirit that unites us all. Without exception, I begin every day of my life with an expression of gratitude. As I look in the mirror to begin my daily ritual of shaving, I say, “Thank you, God, for this life, for my body, for my family and loved ones, for this day, and for the opportunity to be of service. Thank you, thank you, thank you!" So thanks again!
Gratitude and humility send signals to all who meet us that we’re all connected to something larger than life itself. I apologize for the slow response. I'm in Roxboro, NC at a music festival and while packing up to head on down the rd I spotted your comment and a reminder that sometimes, the person viewing you from afar, loving you in silence, is the one capable of loving you the greatest. I once read that the energy created by the wings of a butterfly can be felt a 1000 miles away. If this is true, can you imagine how far love is felt and how your comment changed this day in my existence on this side of heaven. Have a blessed day 🤙🏼 Namaste 🙏🏼
The engine in your used Coke truck may have been powered with a 53 series Detroit. The rocker covers would be bolted down around the perimeter
of the cover as common with gasoline engines. The 71 series engines had hand hand tightened mushroom headed knobs. There would be two on
each V style engine, and 4 on an inline 6-71. On early engines the cover might be embossed “ General Motors Diesel “, later they where stamped
“ Detroit Diesel “. Newer engines had cast aluminum rocker covers, that had small diameter threaded studs with rubber grommets to tighten down
the covers. It should be noted that the cylinder heads, and rockers are sealed with rubber gaskets that are basically o rings. They use a fire ring seal
to contain the combustion pressure inserted on top of the cylinder liner. In the case of the 53 series engine it was typically governed at 2,800 rpm,
so the attenuation could result in permanent hearing loss if the operator was in close quarters. Typically sawmill boom boat operators suffered from
this. These engined came in 2,3,4, V6, and V8’s. Typically they would be used in construction / logging equipment, marine, and vocational trucks like garbage, and cement trucks. Not big power except in naval patrol boats. See movie : Apocalypse Now.
@@georgerenton965 👋🏼 Hi Mr. Renton. All I remember about the engine was it did say Detroit on the valve cover and it was painted in a turquoise colour. You are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to these engines. Its a sound I miss as a child in the city buses, dump trucks etc. I remember the movie. Scary film. Even scarier what they went through. Three members of The Grateful Dead (Mickey Hart, Bill Kreutzmann, and Phil Lesh) improvise on percussion instruments with several other musicians to provide incidental music for the movie Apocalypse Now. Thanks for commenting 🤙🏼 Have a blessed day, Namaste 🙏🏼
Would be a great truck fixed up some!! Thanks for sharing!
I remember this engine as a kid my dad had one it was one problem after another even after a dealership rebuild
Uncle had 2 or 3 of these, tandem drives, 478 c.i. 4 cycle, naturally asperated. Had a 'G' model knuckle boom log loader and a saddle tank on the back behind the cab. 5x3 tranny. Not fast but reliable. Ran the loader off the truck engine off p.t.o. This was a Chevy cab but also had GMC cabs too. Then went to Macks.
Those older trucks all have such bad ass body styles n the wheels on them are always Rusty pieces of iron it just looks so good. I am absolutely in 💕. Great video 👍😊
Wow, been around a long time but have never heard of the "Toro Flow" engine. Thanks Steve, another great presentation. Very interesting stuff!!!
I drove a 64 GMC 10 yard dump truck with a pusher axle in the summer of 66 between my junior and senior years of high school . The truck was gas powered and it too was a screamer as it had straight exhaust . V-6 , 5-speed , 2-speed axle and it would stay right with the other dump trucks . The rear end was quite different as the axles had splines that went in the outer hubs and I had one strip and the local GMC dealer had one in stock . I also had a center bolt break that held the spring pack together as seen in the video . We changed it out one day and it was a very hard job with the dump bed down and taking the u-bolts loose and getting the pieces of the center bolt out and the new one in was a hell of a job . Good $7.00 an hour job for a 17 year old kid and we worked from sun up to sun down , man it was one of our really hot Arkansas summers . The whole month of August was the hottest and we were hauling about 1,000 feet from where we loaded to where we were dumping and never could get out of 1-st gear and the dust was terrible . Great GMC dump truck and a great job making awesome cash money and $7.00 an hour was a lot of money in 1966 . Great video Steve .
GM Toro-Flow Diesels were pure, unadulterated garbage. Plagiarizing a famous advertising slogan once used by Packard - "Ask the man who owns one!"😅
I ran a 1963 GMC 305 v6, a real stump puller!
I love these old workhorses! I have a 67 GMC 4000 with the 351 Magnum V6 , 2 speed rearend and a dump bed that I use regularly here on the farm.
I think there was also a 305 V6 which probably was only in pick-ups.
351 commercial, GMC only made 351E and 351C variants. The E engines were only available in light duty trucks, that being said the light duty motors had magnum heads and magnum intakes but never labeled them as such.
@@RonnieSmith-ky6vvfrom the research I've done according to the stamp on the block it is a Magnum. Of course I don't claim to be a mechanic so....
The data plate inside the cab will only say 351, the difference from a big truck is the HP rating is always different. The 351C engines were rated lower due to the non magnum heads and intake. What year is yours and what series was it?
@@RonnieSmith-ky6vv mine is 67. Not sure about series. I would have to look at the paperwork tomorrow
I learned something new today for sure. Thank you.👍
I have a Toro Flow 478 block. One major difference between the diesel and gas versions in the GMC V6 family was the Toro Flow had a balance shaft. It also had larger main bearings.
Mr. B. Here ! ☕️☕️🍩 👁️👁️ Morning Mags ! Steve did GMC used Oldsmobile engines? Very informative .
no
@@TimGrimes-q2q Mr. B. Here ! I look up your comment and GMC did use Oldsmobile engine 1957 to 1959 they called it 370 ( Olds 371 ) 292 hp at 4200 rpm ! 🤔🤯🤔🤯 ☕️☕️🍩
They used Buick straight eight engines and Pontiac V8 motors too.
@@suzi_mai That why they called General Motors, also I found the GMC Motor Home used Olds 455 ! Thanks for infor. 👍👍
Don't forget the 5.7 Oldsmobile diesels of 1978 onwards until the introduction of the 6.2 diesel
Steve, another excellent video. Thank you so much for bringing this engine to light. I've known about these engines for a long time. I've never seen one in real life but I've read about them on several occasions and they're very interesting to me. Thank you again so much! Look forward to the next episode and I agree with you. The junkyard can definitely be a very good classroom
The bus company I worked for went from Buick straight eights to GMC V6 diesels in their Flxible buses.
GM didn’t learn much from converting a gas engine to diesel. Some 15 years later they did same thing with the Olds 350. The results were similar.
ouch, i remember that..many were station wagons
Good morning Steve ,I use to drive a Dump truck . Of course it was a 65 GMC . The Jimmy's had a lot of torque . A lot of fun hauling dirt to the Dump . 1 load of dirt in an hour, to and from the dump to the job site. Lol.👍🇺🇸
Omaha had 1 of those back in the 70's, it was a reefer box truck carrying meat.
Those generation trucks still run the grains in eastern Washington state- where there is a most no rust
In the mid 1970's, I worked on the city buses in Gainesville, Fl. The original buses which had been purchased from Wallace Brown who owned and operated the bus system, were powered by Toro Flow General Motors v6 diesels. I rebuilt several and did all sorts of maintenance and repair on them. They were not particularly hardy or durable engines . They had many characteristic problems and were not comparable at all to the quality of the Detroit Diesels which we later had. I own one of them today which is in a school bus. It would sure be a challenge to get that old thing running!
Like the 'Motorific" model truck he showed. Had a set myself as a kid in the late 60's ; found it again about 15years ago and started to collect the tracks / vehicles again as a hobby
they make for fun wall art. I just picked up some NyLint toys left for free on the side of a driveway and I have an old Model A grill converted into a cabinet with shelves and pexiglass in the radiator section to hold the smaller ones.
We had'em too! My older brother still has his red GMC just like this one.
The Motorific Torture Track! It's Ideal! The cars and truck were very detailed and realistic for toys. They were battery powered and batteries back then didn't last very long and were a continuous expense that competed with the baseball card money.
@@greenfuzz13 We stopped using Motorifics the day we got our Aurora slot car track for Christmas around 1968.
As short as the frame rails are, I would think it was a dump bed, or a tow truck. The tank in the cab could have been used for hydraulic oil. I’m curious if there is a PTO on that truck.
Didn't know about that one. Interesting video Steve! 👍👍💯🇺🇸
The year I was born.
Your library of automotive literature is impressive. Great info man, have a good weekend.
If you have never been to Macungie PA for the annual antique truck show, you should. Too late for this year as I think it finishes up this weekend. Antique trucks are just as intriguing as cars are.
The Ford 6.7 has the intake manifolds running over the top of the valve covers and into the heads where you would normally expect the exhaust to exit. But unlike this Toroflow the 6.7 Power Strokes have the exhaust inside the valley between the heads. According to Ford engineers it keeps much more heat focused and a much shorter track to the turbo which is also mounted in between the cylinder heads. Ford started with a clean slate to design the 6.7 Power Stroke after the mediocre and problematic 6.0 and the horrible 6.4. Both designed by companies other than Ford. But I'm pretty sure it is BMW who has taken credit for that particular feature from a turbo design dating back to the 90's. It would be hard to make the claim that GMC was first as this is a naturally aspirated engine and the exhaust is still on the outside. But it is interesting how design features that seem brand new can usually be traced back may decades.
As a apprentices in a diesel shop , we swapped gas to toroflows. Low end torque was amazing , Customers swapped engines mostly for mobile home totters.The transmission we used was a Clark double disc 5 speed, with the 2 speed rear end you could GO fast. Fun engine to work on. Yes the injector pump was crappy. This was early 70's and the gas crisis . Thanks for the show and tell.
Wow! This is the first I've heard ANYBODY even mention about 4 stroke Toro Flow diesel engines since learning about them in Diesel Mechanic school! Word was that it wasn't the most desirable engines to have among those in the trucking industry, because of numerous problems with them.
That's probably why most of us never heard of them. I never knew this engine was produced. I'd like to re-engineer that injection pump to make it reliable and then rebuild the engine. It would be uniquely different to have than the two-strokes that are so much more common.
Was born in 64 so by the time I saw one of those GMC diesels it was in an old truck in the 80s. At that time there was still a lot of the Chevy V8 powered old GMCs running around but not many with the GMC diesels or gas engines. Story I heard was the V6, V8 and especially V12 gassers drank fuel like crazy and the diesels just weren't very reliable.
Saw a V6 gas out of a pickup apart once, the things were extremely heavy duty looking inside, like what you'd see in a diesel. I bet they shared a lot of parts.
It was more likely re-engined than re-cabed..
I remember my friends dad got a brand new C60 Chevy in 1967. It was a V6 diesel. It had a 5 speed transmission and 2 speed axle.
7:31 Bosch doesn’t even make a good spark plug 😂😂
Sorry, Steve… Not to beat you down, because you are the incrediblest walking automotive encyclopedia, but…
Yes, it is a four-stroke cycle, but it doesn’t operate on the Otto cycle. It operates on the Diesel cycle.
In Diesel mechanics school, they had one of these Toro-Flows in the lab and it was torn down and reassembled hundreds of times, along with a CAT, a Mack V8, Screamin’ Jimmys, Cummins… etc.
Do please keep these great junkyard crawls coming!
You need to send a copy of the truck brochure that explains diesel power to the current batch of knuckleheads in Washington DC who want to “decarbonize” our country!
Looks good in the junkyard.
Those V6 GMC diesels were in the same class as the Caterpillar 3208 V8s. They were strictly a medium power unit great for up to five ton or so with good torque. That was the problem with the two stroke Detroit diesel, you really had to wind it up to get any power out of it so they were actually slower from 0-30 than a four stroke which if most of your driving is done intercity slows your deliveries down.
Maybe you should check with reality about the engine speed.
It ISN'T really much different RPM wise that the other diesel motors, it's just sounds that way because of being a 2 stroke. "Driving under 30mph" has nothing to do with engine RPM either...theres this silly gizmo called a "transmission"...together with the accelerator pedal, the transmission controls how many RPMs the engine is going to spin at any given speed.....even under 30 mph.
But hey, yours is a great story.👍
@@danielkingery2894 The Toro Flow was governed at 3200 RPM.
@@thecollectoronthecorner7061
So are my 8.2L Detroit's...and neither are '2-strokes'.
@@danielkingery2894Those 8.2 sure are easy on fuel ⛽️
It seems as though the only reason that landed in the junkyard was the production of the next, bigger, better truck, and the cost to keep that one on the road.
I'm curious about the torque specs of that engine.
I'm thinking it needs saved and dropped in a pickup truck with dual stacks and a giant turbo. Go roll some serious coal.
Great video, bad engine. The 2-strokes can still be used today in seasonal work.
I've always loved these oddball engines from American companies that most gas powered V8 guys are baffled by when they learn about them.❤
I have a 478 Toro Flow as well as several of the gasoline V6's. There was also the 637 V8 Toro Flow in addition to the 351 and 478 versions.
Thanks Steve! I never knew..
They sounded similar to the 350 diesels
One thing I've never been called is Screaming Jimmy...
This is cool, shame seeing it so rusted and broken. I wonder if any of it Is salvageable?
So this diesel was derived from a converted gas engine? Long before Oldsmobile!
In the mid 70's I worked for a guy who had been an engineer at GM and according to him had some hand in designing the Toro Flo diesel. I drove a truck among other things for him and , yup, it had a Toro Flo. It was the cabover like in the ad you showed. I remember it being loud and gutless but I suppose all diesels were back then. Good times..
That's actually really cool! I had no idea these even existed! Awesome video Steve!
With respect may I say I believe that is a truck tractor as the frame isn’t long enough to fit a box that could handle much volume. Just my 2 cents from a retired truck driver of 47 years. 😉
Time to do the Laundry Mat Crawl! Thanks for another video!
The 409s in the Commercials had a big power-sapping valve notch in the bore, kinda ala the Max Wedge Mopars.. You should do something on the 704ci 'twin-six' V12s that were fitted to a limited amount of commercials too sometime. (probably the reason why not many opted for them was that they produced not much more power than the V8s or diesels and cost alot extra)
In addition, I heard the gasoline V12 was a huge fuel hog.
They used those in marine as well.
Hey I bet it still runs
My dad had a 65 GMC tandem dump truck back in 1965 he bought new. That engine was JUNK . He traded it on a 66 GMC 9500 with a 671 that lasted for ever.
I worked for a GMC Medium Duty Truck dealer in the 90’s and I never ran across of these. I saw a 6500 with an air cooled Deutz but never a Toro-Flow. How about a “will it run” video?
Why would a 409 surprise you? 427 was an optional gas engine up into the 80s on the big trucks.
The factory toque rating on that engine was less than the gas counter part. The gas version was also made in 305ci gas and 702ci you didn’t mention those.
GMC was awesome in their heyday. That same engine family begat the 305/351/401/478 V6s, the 637 V8 (gas OR diesel), and the bonkers 1960-66 702 V-12! (Essentially twin 351s with a one piece block, crank, & cam.) But a decade EARLIER, GMC made HD INLINE 6s of 302, 505, and even 707 CID!!
That would make a cool engine for a rat rod project with the intake and exhaust on the outside
while technically unrelated...slightly later they had what they called the magnum v6.......i got $250 for a pair of them emblems!
Happy morning with Steve in the junkyard ! No place like home .😊
I remember driving those when they were new. Not as much power or torque as their big brothers. They did not have wet sleeves either. The gas tank was for the Thermo King unit if it was a refrigerated box. Otherwise it was a factory delete. Thermo King did not offer smaller diesel refrigeration units until 1978.
I have a 1970 toro-flow and it also has the fuel opening for a seat tank but has diesel badge covering it. I sure the cab has not been changed.
I had one an old fuel truck. Was a pig. No power at all. Yellow pos. Couldn't kill it.
Somebody should try to bring it back to life
I have shop/rebuild manuals for the Toro-Flo engines. Be more than happy to send some scans of them if someone needs them. I hope to get my hands on one someday
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My friend, had a 1970 dodge 1 ton heavy duty, and in the late 70’s, put this 478 v6 Toto flo in it, with adapter plate for the 727 torque flite trans, and a browning 3 speed under/direct/overdrive behind that..the truck, was a BEAST…he’s passed on,and I now have the truck…time has taken its toll, and while the truck is no good,,the drivetrain is still a great candidate for a new project..
1st...
Man, too bad it is so far gone. This would have been a neat old truck, put a box on the back, and turn it into a vintage camper.
Chevy had a rear-end like what you're showing.
Love learning about the vehicles that are as old as we are.