1861 Wine - TRASH or TREASURE? Tasting RARE Cellar Findings
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2023
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I use this wine key: Forge de Laguiole Ebony
I have used this glass in this Video: Gabriel StandArt
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 - 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 - 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 - 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 - 69: A below-average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 - 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
I get a lot of messages from people that go a little like that: I have found these wines in my grandfather’s cellar - are they any good? My parents have left their wine collection to me - do you think I will survive tasting these wines? Today I am going to show you how to separate the delicious from the dead, the good from the bad, and the trash from the treasure.
And I will taste wines that are roughly 20, 50, 60, and 160 years old. Wine is a magical product. It can improve with time and get better and better over the years. But there is a moment when even the best wine turns to vinegar.
Regardless, when it comes to old cellars many people have the expectations that they have hit gold when they inherit a “collection”. However, in many cases, your grandparents or parents would have opened or sold the good wine already and what is left is most of the time the leftovers.
That’s not to say that these bottles cannot be interesting - they might - but when people present these collections to me they are not collectible First Growths but instead mediocre wines that are too old. So let's go through these four wines, and I will tell you what I look at when going through old wine collections.
I was born in 1976. Every time you said that this wine was 50 years old, something in my head was replying, "Wait! It's not 50 yet!!!" 😅😂
50 is the new 30 ;)
I was born in 1971. Thanks.
Great video. It's not often that "absolutely disgusting" comes up as a wine rating.
You've obviously never been a judge for amateur brewers or winemakers.... 🤪
Best yet. I was laughing so hard when you tasted the rancid wine.
Recently had the privilage of tasting a wine from 1966 we found in a cellar. I was really expecting it to be awful and undrinkable but to our surprise after letting it take in some oxygen it really opened up great and tasted awesome. it had turned almost orange and smelled like port. It was super smooth and a once in a lifetime experience, i am also kind of new to wine drinking and it opened up a completely new door to me i didnt think was possible in terms of the flavours red wine could have.
We tried finding it online but couldnt find anything, it was a chateau les mourreaux, cotes de castillon, bordeaux for anyone wondering, probably doesnt exist anymore.
I had a 1985 Dom Perignon that I was expecting to be a treasure that I opened in 2017 and it was trash. It missed all its sparkles. On the other hand I also had several bottles of 1985 Chateau Rayne Vigneau that all I can say is the older, the better. Pure treasure!
Trash/Treasure: I never buy or have trash, but I have "maybes" in my cellar.
It's surprising to me just how many old and really old red wines work amazingly well still!
If they have a good quality from back then, they'll usually work today - Had 30 wines from before WW2 (mostly reds, a few ports and 2 white Bx) and just 4-5 total fails.
Oldest doubter I have had was a 1904 Durfort Vivens, was just fine, tasted like a 1970s Bx gone old, but it was not gone or disgusting, it tasted good, velvet, but kinda close to death.
Which was fine after 120 yrs...
My trash or treasure wines are a couple of bottles of 1990 Joh. Jos. Prüm Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese that leaked a good bit at some point. Great producer, great vineyard, great year, great aging potential, but....
I'm hoping its "auslese-ness" will pull it through.
There is a Halloween "bring your scariest wine" tasting to which I may be going next week. If so, we'll see what they taste like.
A friend gifted me a 1992 Caymus cabernet bottle that I believe was not stored properly. I really wanted to open it for the wine knowledge and experience. The cork fell apart, but I ventured on. It was definitely past it’s prime, and at first I was taken back by the shock of its age, but it ended up being one of the most memorable wine drinking experiences I have ever had. It tasted of candied and dried fruit. It was not the best wine, but it was an amazing wine experience.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but i appreciate when you wear lighter color clothing so we can see whats in the glass better.
Good video and thank you.
Hey Konstantin, i’ve bought 5 years ago Bordeaux Vieux Chateau Certan 1969. The family of the current makers tasted in 2019 and told me it was still good. But now i’ve still these bottles, your video inspires me to open one of them to see if it is stll worth it. I kwow it wasn’t a top vintage but the winemaker and the region gave me confidence back them. Fingers crossed.
I definitely laughed out loud watching this more than any other of your videos. Thanks for that!
good to have you back!
Wow. Just wow. Cheers and thanks taking the chance!
I just love your videos - this was so fascinating!
I have a Barolo from 55 and a Barolo from 71 that has that low volkme as your third wine. It is Barolo Erico Serafino Riserva soooo might (knock on wood) still be fine, but this is really just my big hopes 😂😅
Also a Rioja from 85 that is looking not really clear, but maybe if i put it in a wine basket for 2-3 weeks might help and it will be lovely! 😅
I have a bottle of a 1987 Brazilian sweet wine that I kept just for fun ! I know that it’s gone , but I keep it like a souvenir in my cellar ! And the cork is in perfect shape ! Should I open it??? Lol!
I felt your pain when you had the terrible rosé, been there done that 😄
Great video, KB. I have about 20 different bottles of 1982 Bordeaux. Most should be treasures, like ‘82 Cos and 82 Gruaud Larose. Definitely will be some trash in there, by the time I open them.
Funniest vid you have made by far. Tasting the rancid old rose and watching your face while doing it - priceless. Could it kill you? Who knows, but highly entertaining. More like it sometimes, please.
Germany has to produce age worthy wines because by the time you finish pronouncing the name on the bottle 2 more.vintages have been released!
Loved this video! Very informative to learn about the progression of wine over time and the effect age has on a bottle that perhaps was not intended to be cellared for quite so long. Your style is both educational and lighthearted at the same time. Keep the content coming!
Glad it was helpful!
Risking your life for others - the 'Diehard' of wine tasting videos. Thanks for going through the gauntlet for us.
I definitely have questionable bottles in my cellar. Many picked up from estate sales or gifted to me. I've been blown away by a few of them. For example, I had a Cabernet Sauvignon that was stored in the loft of a hot garage for 40 years. It was totally drinkable, despite its horrible storage.
I think temp. consistency may play into this storage story.
@@cleigh113 I guess it's simply more of a myth than wine drinkers want to admit.
Nice video and you are braver than me for trying the 3rd wine! The oldest wine I have in my cellar is a 1966 Château Ducru-Beaucaillou. I suspect it’s bad but Cellartracker has given some hope. I will open in the next few weeks to see how it has evolved - thanks for the inspiration 😃
Give an update if you can
Fantastic video! Thx again!
Always informative and entertaining.
I know a guy with a bottle of Fuller's 1997 Vintage ale. It may be younger than my family's bottle of '91 Port, but that '97 Vintage ale is in it's own league and is a throwback to when Strong Ale was considered an equal to french wine for the wealthy to enjoy. It was also made with the best barley and hops in the country so yeah, properly great bottle that I'll never get to have.
Thanks Konstantin! Very interesting and fun to watch! :)
Great fun! Thanks for this
Thanks for your service.
nice video you need to try "CEM REIS" from Alentejo my favorite wine
I had a pink tokay once from some newly discovered Eastern block cellar - and this was back in the '80s! Don't know whether it was a varietal or a combination rosé, but it was alright. Oh: muh - Hoh - guh nee
My friend was cleaning old wardrobe at his cabinet at the university, where he kept and teachers before him were keeping bottles of alcohol, gifted by students, and I took from him 3 bottles, couple of which were about 20 years old. And one of reds - montesole Taurasi 2007 DOCG, actually, it was super delicious! Well aged however the producer was not top, just good red from Taurasi. I like such findings. Wish you more such openings :) 🎉
I’ve never cared for wine even though it’s steeped in my culture, this is the 1st time I’ve totally understood a wine expert. Loved this video, Thank you 🙏
I have a bottle of Cálem 1960 that was in the back of my Nana’s cupboard for the last 60 years.
It’s got a perfectly intact cork, no fill level issues and even a wax seal over the cork.
I’m quite excited to try it though don’t really have the occasion for it. I was going to open it on my wedding day but really couldn’t be bothered to decant a bottle of wine on a day when I was meant to be relaxing.
Half way through the 70,s bottle decorking I immediately thought please decant it,,before tasting. I can imagine a hug mother init or worse lol, I mean vinegar mother. Also decanting to try old wines would surely be wise to separate any sediment. I’m glad you compared it to Madeira lol another dimension to your testing would be vinometer readings for alcohol level, ph test, and refractometer reading. I really respect and appreciate your tasting reviews.
I love how Mr. Baum always looks and speaks like he's a little pissed. Kinda on brand for a wine expert.
We need a video on how to drink responsibly (without ruining health), at the same time have the liberty to drink a lot of wine. :P
This would actually be really Interesting
Great topic. I've been limiting myself to two 5 oz. glasses per week, since consuming in larger quantities hurts my gym performance. The Coravin is fantastic for stretching a bottle over a few weeks. On the plus side, drinking less has allowed me to purchase higher quality wines.
I limit myself to one bottle per day and 17 bottles per weekend. I feel great.
@@MakingaStink😂😂😂😂
@@MakingaStink
Pah, that's nothing! I drink all that plus a couple bottles of vodka and whisky as well... in a single day!
Tolles Video! Hattest du mal ein Video zu spontan vergorenen Weinen gemacht? Ich entdecke diese Weine gerade und könnte mir vorstellen, dass es ein interessantes Thema sein könnte. 😊
I like these kinds of videos.. A pleasure!
Konstantin! You should do a video on mexican wine. I´ve heard the quality is growing exponentially because of niche producers. I´d love to see your reaction! Great video as always
The look on your face when you tried that Weissherbst rose' pretty much said it all.
Omg the old one you need to filter it not just pour a glass, it probably just dehydrated and air got in but ooh glad you tried it lol fascinating indeed. Please test the actual ph, hydrometer vinometer so we have a reading as well as palette
Me: opens Konstanin's new video to enjoy while eating a meal
Konstantin: 15:45
Konstantin! I would really like to see a video where you explain the difference between barrel fermentation + oak aging vs normal fermentation and oak ageing. My understanding is that barrel fermentation helps marry the oak with the fruit compared to normal oak ageing, but I honestly haven't heard it explained in a way I am satisfied with even during Wset 3. Maybe see if you can tell the difference with a blind tasting?
As a expert with barrel fermenting it doesnt marry the oak, just improves the texture of white wines. It will round the body but the oak doesnt come across at all in the wine, you would have to oak it after.
Nice you are back, missed you…
I missed you too!
I had a 2009 Chablis (Premier Cru Les Montmains Domaine Laroche) a month or so ago. I was amazed at how high the acidity was still. I got the impression that it would keep going for many more years.
I've generally had great luck with aging Chablis, including villages (as long as it comes from a decent to great producer). Far better than the more prestigious wines from the Côte d'Or where the variability (and bonkers prices) have led me to stay away.
Dangerous Rose - well done 😁
I have a 1993 Tokaji Aszu 5 puttonyo that is very dark. I plan to open it in the next few weeks and hope it's still good.
ha ha love this episode ! hilarious. THANKS
Hallo Konstantin,
vielen Dank für das spannende Video. Deine Videos sehe ich immer gerne und finde sie inspirierend.
Gibt es Infos/Studien dazu, welche Auswirkungen auf die Reifezeit bzw. Lagerfähigkeit von Wein ein zu feuchter oder zu trockener bzw. zu warmer/zu kalter Keller bzw. Die Temperaturschwankungen der Jahreszeiten haben und welchen Einfluss da die Beleuchtung hat? Oder vielleicht auch der Einfluss der Farbe des Glases der Flaschen auf die Lagefähigkeit?
Das würde sicher auch mal ein interessantes Video sein. Gerade wo bestimmt viele Weintrinker, die gerne GGs oder teuere Bordeauxweine respektive Weine aus anderen Regionen mit Lagerpotenzial kaufen, nicht immer die optimale Lagerumgebung zu Hause haben, wo ich mich auch mal mit einschließen würde.
Spätburgunder is the german name for Pinot Noir. Translates to late Burgundy.
Edit: I'm making my own Pinot Noir this year from german grapes, the Ahr region. Found a producer that was selling perfect Pinot Noir grapes picked on October 1st, for only 2 euros per kilogram. I just couldn't pass that up, bought 100kg. The grapes were at 23°Brix so that was perfect too.
The wine ended up at 13.5%, super dry but excellent, very fruity, healthy...the grapes went through a happy primary fermentation which lasted for 8 days, but including the cold maceration and a couple of days after it had finished, I had it on the skins for 2 weeks. Racked and pressed it 2 days ago. Have 40L and will probably end up with at least 35L in the end. It's already cleared up almost entirely and has a thick layer of the gross lees at the bottom. I intend to rack it off of that, and onto a minimum of lightly toasted French oak, within a week at the latest.
The question I have is; generally what would be that best drinking window for Pinot Noir?
How age worthy it is?
In general I would say 1-3 years. For great Pinots it can be 30 years+
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Thanks so much for the reply!
Ok, after bottling I'll store everything properly and depending on how it'll be changing I might leave a few bottles long term - past those 3 years, but I'm no professional and I do know how fickle this varietal is, so don't expect much, lol!
Regardless, if it turns out half-decent within a year and a half to 2 years, this will have been a great investment. 200 euro for 30L or more!
Awesome!!!
The bottle isn't from 1861, it was bottled in the mid 60's from a cask so pretty much all the work done in the cask by then. In Douro we call it "vinhos imortais" because no matter how the storage conditions on the bottle might deteriorate the wine itself will survive for decades. Usually such a bottle would be re-corked every 20 years or so, like I do to most of my 100+ Ports and Madeiras.
How do you know when it was bottled?
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Good question Konstantin,,considering it's coming from a wine expert with no videos to back up his expertise. That Tordiz was extremely impressing to hear about it's dynamics!
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Not OP, but had a port from Burmester from 1890, bottled 1977, so it was a Colheita (The bottle said it was bottled then)
AFAIK, isn't that really the difference? ... That OP is really talking about Colheita port and not Vintage port?
Vintage AFAIK, is bottled a few years after made and then sold to customers to age for 100 yrs, while Colheita stay in barrels for 20-80 yrs and are then released when the house deems the cask ready, right?
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine
The IVDP seal was not used prior to 1934. The seal on the bottle (old style) was used until 1969. I can't point out the botteling date from your video, but it has to be within that time range.
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine I don't know how they did back then but know you always have the bottling year, usually on the back of the bottle
you seem to be passionate about old vintage wine.
there is a very old vintage that should interest you!
in France, in the cellars of the hospices of the city of Strasbourg, one of the oldest vintages of wine in barrels is stored!
this “nectar” harvested in 1472! ! ! ! was only served 4 times: in 1576; 1716; 1868 and 1944 (access conditions are complicated)
Oof. The fill levels on some of them were clues. 🙀💀
Is there a cap or something you can put on old unopened wine bottles to help prevent further oxidation/loss from evaporation through an old cork?
"Bad quality wine" seal is just hilarious! =D
Because I'm a noob at this, and haven't been buying or finding old wines, I've only had a wine as old as 2014, a Garnacha from Spain.
Fantastic video Konstantin! 👍 Need to get a bottle of Port for someone to enjoy in 120 years😂
You should!
A friend of mine shared an old bottle with me that she had acquired along the way. It had a very strange provenance, being a Riesling but from a Russian "imperial" cellar, which made no sense given that the vintage was 1929. I wasn't at all sure what to expect but I cooked a quinea fowl and mushroom casserole (and had a bottle of ok rioja on standby in case it was undrinkable). It was all a bit strange. The cork was very short but was intact and still had a good seal. The wine was brown but more in the way that your port was rather than the rose. It was quite umami rich on the nose but the interesting thing was that there was still some fruit on the palate as well as a surprising amount of fresh acidity. It worked with the food. We concluded that it was about 10 years past it's drinking window but it was still a very interesting experience.
Thank you for introducing me to another English word with which to torture my German colleagues (alongside 'squirrel') - "Mahogany" 😂
Really interesting! Anything that's kind of around the edges of the subject of wine is fascinating. A world of mystery! Nice one Konstantin. ⭐👍
Respect for trying the brown stuff lol
All Chardonnay from Jura are age worthy, which reminds me that I should buy more because I finished the last bottle that I had in my moderate (150+ bottles) collection.
I have two bottles of Chateau Latour 1956, they keep a good label, capsule, appearance.
I bought them several years ago, from my friend’s father cellar.
What should I expect to? Thanks Konstantine.
I've drank bottles that were decades old. I was usually disappointed. Most people don't store the bottles properly to begin with so you end up with dried out corks (or sometimes mildewed corks). Add to that the big temperature swings that occur during the year if you don't have the wine stored in a consistent environment. Trying old bottles of wine I have found or have been given tells me a lot of bad stuff can happen to wine in 20 or 30 years.
Can we please get a tour of your cellar!
Ill never forget the time i pulled out a bottle of brut from my parents liquor cabinet, 1986. At the time it was 2021, i was surprised at how much it tasted like apricot and how mildly sweet and effervescent it was.... until i realized that the label said extra dry.... i was sick as a dog.
The best red wine vinegar I had the chance to have at some point came from a forty-ish red wine forgotten in a collection. It just turned out in a perfect vinegar. I used every single drop of it.
Interesting show.
1957 Tokaji aszu . 1981 d'Yquem.
I am a terrible collector. I just got a bottle of late harvest Riesling that I know will age for 20+ years but it is calling my name every time I go down into the cellar. As you say, for many collections the owner drank the good stuff and the reason the rest is left behind is that it was never that good to begin with. Though some duds do turn to butterflies after some aging but generally if it was mediocre to start 50 years isn't going to help that. I believe to age well you need 2 of the three items: Tannins, Acidity, Alcohol. How true do you find that rule? Is it the sugar in Ports that help age it or the alcohol and acidity?
Tried a port wine from 1944, it was superb!
I had a dried out Pinot like that too!
I make my own wine from allotment,the corking issue concerns me, how do I know a good cork to use as I have had many bottles with two types of corks crumbly or weak when opening young, never mind aging!
Does a synthetic cork have a chance of doing better long-term than a natural cork? It seems like they seal more tightly.
You made me laugh a lot today... thank you!!
They don’t last very long and tend to let in more oxygen
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWinehow about screw tops? They have a very tight seal. There was a stigma associated with them because they were introduced on cheap wines but today you see them on some quality wines.
@@joshuarosen465 3:20
I have a Tignanello from 2009. Is that worth anything? Should I be drinking it now or wait?
Screwcaps are a winner los of top Australian producers use them for a reason. Top video
That's the most disgusted by a wine that I've ever seen you in one of your videos. I love that you still gave it a rating haha.
In regards to storing a wine bottle with the screw. Should it be kept upright or on its side?
"Luckily, this isn't my first rodeo.".... hearing that expression used with a German accent sounds awesome!
gave me a chuckle too
Thank you for your sacrifice in tasting funky wines for our entertainment 😅😂
My pleasure 😊
I'm a big fan of screw cap closures. Sure, there is something about uncorking a bottle but for the reason demonstrated in the video I prefer screw caps. New closure tech is one of those niche wine nerdy things I could geek out on. As an occasional home brewer, better closures that are also more accessible is an interest of mine. Home brewing still ciders also benefits from this-currently bottle still ciders in punted Burgundy bottles I've kept and washed.
I have a 2014 Chablis Grand Cru in my cellar, and I would say it is drinkable right about now. What do you think? :)
Hello Konstantin... how about making an episode where you could rate home made wines - made by your subscribers of course?
I have yet to see you take a sip of a wine and immediately spit it out from disgust.
Always a treat. Do you suspect Leon is imbibing the vintage port? Hahaha! I lost it when the cork dropped in.
Leoville poyferre 1977 - my year of birth. A gift from my father when I turned 18. Storage has not been good - I am quite sure it is vinegar 😊
May be I should give it a go
Pretty sure this one is trash! 😂😂😂
Usual commentary: "It tastes of cherries with hints of walnut."
Rancid wine commentary: "It tastes of vinegar, so there's some acidity there."
Maybe the ransid Syrah can be used as weed killer :-)
while that wine may have tasted of vinegar, I doubt it would kill you unless the vinegar killed you. between the alcohol and the acidity, it should kill the vast majority of troublesome pathogens. Vinegar in a concentrated form is quite effective at killing otherwise rather tough microorganisms.
Fantastic video Konstantin! I appreciate all the pain you went through to give us this video! I confess that I LOLed when you spat that mummified rosé from Baden. Cheers!!
I have no wine in my cellar but a bottle of light beer from 2010. I Wonder, is it any good?
Sure it is …
Hey Konstantin,
I would love to send you a wine i like for you to review :) How do i do this?
Greetings from the Netherlands
Why didnt you just use a Durand to open the older wines?
Corton Charlemagne 2018 Leflaive. When best to drink? And would it be a baby murder if opened now?
Thanks for letting us see you suffer. 😎
It was probably no surprise to you, that No. 2, 3 and 4 were trash. But you are right: You never know before you taste.
And of cause: I will pass some questionable bottles to my kids. I don't dare to open them. Maybe they will.
With respect to German wines, wouldn't the longevity be extended due to the concentration of residual sugar? For example, "Berenauslase" and "Trokenberenauslase" (please forgive any spelling error, but German is not my native language) would have longer lives than a "Kabinet" or "Spatlese."
This is akin to the longevity for a premier cru Sauterns such as Ch. D'Yquem, which last upwards of 50 years.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thank you!
3th bottle looks better than other. Enjoy.
Apologies - but I loved that weissherbst tasting THE BEST! Maybe I'm a sadist - OR - you are tasting great wines every week that make me jealous and it was a joy to see you taste crap for once. Schadenfreude level very high.