2:54 SOLD. These Muti-Effects makers should always remember that a significant chunk chose the multi route because they don't want to tap dance. The option to have it as a chain/gate switch should always be there. And the companies should really standardized the name, not jumbled with their own patch/preset/bank/scene/memory mode/select because they just like it.
Nicely done video and, as an MS-3 user wondering if I made the right choice, it was great to see them physically side by side. I'd be happy to watch a video twice as long - nice presentation. Cheers from the UK!
As a plethora user I was wondering the same thing. In fairness to tc they refer to each patch of 5 effects as boards which is quite an accurate term. I think the plethora has a great design (and a killer tuner which uses all 5 screens) but so far it's more limited in how you can use it than the ms-3. Which is pretty much what the reviewer said.
I've programmed a different board for each song we do on my Plethora, so a specific set of effects are available for each song. It's a little different approach than using a switch to completely change your entire setup, but I look at it as having a separate custom pedalboard for each song. I'm really picky about sounds and I think the Plethora sounds fantastic. I have all my drive pedals in the Plethora external fx loop, that way I can have a compressor in slot one, THEN go to my drive pedals then back in to 4 more FX. You can program where you want the fx loop to be in the chain, which is a fantastic feature, same with expression pedal used as volume control- you can place it wherever you like in the chain and have that programmed per board. FYI a looper was added as a firmware update. My big gripe is NO PROPER MANUAL. Big flunk for TC on that - they've had plenty of time. I've had to watch several videos to figure out some of the deep features. Their computer editor is clunky and definitely NOT full-featured. An editor akin to what the Helix has would be a godsend, but this is mostly just a clunky librarian that doesn't work all that well.
I got mine this week. I plan to do the same. It allows to have a particular sound for each song. Which is less possible with a classic pedalboard with single pedals.
Midi allows you to do all the things you want on the Plethora plus you can send midi from the MS3 and stick the Plethora in an MS3 loop. And you can save patches on the Plethora with some pedals on or off, and it has a simple looper built in. Plethora has no drive pedals and no real EQ pedal. While MS-3 has drives, plus things like the TeraEcho and Slicer built in. But the Plethora has Hall of Fame 2 reverb and Flashback 2 delay, as well as harmonisers, phasers, flangers, noise gate, sub n up, and a bunch of other pedals. The plethora has a pc editor, plus the ability to download 75 “toneprints” which are tweaked presets for each pedal. The MASH foot switches give you effectively an expression pedal for each effect so you can change the delay mix, the reverb length or up to three parameters on each pedal on each of the 128 boards (sets of five pedals). Ideally I’d use both boxes together, with the MS-3 sending midi to the Pkethora … and then feed the stereo output to something like an Iridium or an HX Stomp.
The plethora is IMO great for acoustic players who don't currently use effects, it's the price of two HOF's... I'll be using mine with my EHX super switcher. It'd also great for new guitarists since it saves a lot of money buying those pedals, plus they're constantly adding to it.
Great video! Very enlightening as to the features. As others have said, it may be better to label future videos as "Functionality" or "Audio test" so that folks can find you faster. I was actually looking for a functionality comparison like you provided, and didn't need an audio test.
The Line6 PodGo and HX Stomp and Helix and their "snapshot" feature is a game changer for these kinds of things. The boss's patches definitely are a great feature but snapshots do all that and more. The Boss MS-3 would also be a possible Midi Controller to control midi rack gear, and could even switch midi-switchable amp channels for you. The HX Stomp and Helix Floor can also do that. Not sure about the Plethora. While it does have midi out I'm not sure it can SEND arbitrary midi program change commands.
The Plethora can NOT send any new midi, just pass through what it receives. So it can pass on patch/program changes that are on the same midi channel or on different ones. Note also that the Plethora ignores what’s coming in for about 300ms when you change patches (“boards”) as it’s busy loading the pedals. This means it also doesn’t keep trails going, it’s not passing on midi messages that arrive in those 300ms, and if you’re using the volume pedal to reduce the unaffected sound, it will blare back at full volume for those 300ms. At 120bpm, each beat is 500ms, so it’s a gap of under one beat, but it can be annoying.
I have 2 MS-3's (one for bass and the other for guitar). I didn't struggle much at all with programming it. Compared to previous Boss multi-effects units, this is the most user friendly to date.Granted some of the automation features can be a bit confusing. But setting up each effect is pretty intuitive. The only real advantage that the Plethora has is that the external loop can be placed in any point of the chain. I just wish that the MS-3 could have more flexibility in where the loops could be placed within the chain.
I think you can place the loops wherever you want within the chain. But the problem seems to be that the 3 loops cannot be separated from each other. It looks like they are hardwired side by side on the unit. I would expect having the 3 loops to be placed in the signal chain individually. That would make this product really perfect.
@@zaporoshti3392 Exactly. In fact, I thought that was what I had said. But yeah, had the loops been able to be placed in three different points within the chain based upon the patch, it would be the ultimate pice of kit for any rig.
I downsize from a Jesus the years ago… Started using the MS3 as mission control with analog petals… Was great… But I didn’t miss my TC effects… So I recently grabbed a plethora X.3… So now I have both…. I’ve only had the plethora for a day now… ButThe one thing that drives me crazy… Is no global external tempo tap…. Hopefully that will be coming in an update soon
Plethora. It's more expensive but the UI and tones are better. The drives on the MS-3 don't sound so good to my ears. With a MIDI controller, surely there's a way to set up something like patches on the Plethora? I have a Boss ES-8 and love it, but having the Plethora would maybe free up a ton of loops for more drives and a couple for an extra analog modulation & delay pedal.
You totally misrepresented the Plethora. Way off! The patches you refer to are pedalboards on the Plethora. Just three quick taps to change your pedalboard on the Plethora as you demonstrated. While on your pedalboard you can individually turn off and on pedals. You can store 127 different pedalboards with your choice of five pedals on each board. In fact, that is the main thing about the Plethora, which is pretty amazing that you missed it.
Three taps (as opposed to one), to move from patch to patch, to me doesn’t seem like the intention of the board. It’s a great feature, and I get that you could make it kind of like the MS3 in that way, especially when adding a midi controller. But having sat down and played with both, to me it feels like you’re Jerry-rigging the Plethora to do something it isn’t intended to do (especially without a midi controller). If someone told me the Plethora was exactly like the MS3 in its functionality to build patches, I would definitely say that THEY’RE misrepresenting the pedal.
do the pedalboards have a configuration of which pedals are on or off when you switch to that board? here's a way of asking it: can i switch from chorus/delay/reverb to compressor/vibe in one stomp?
@@stk7778 each Plethora pedalboard will always be the way you left it the last time it was used. As for one stomp, switching pedalboards in the middle of a song isn’t seamless and takes a few seconds. You can do that but it’s not instant. It sounds like you would rather have presets on a pedal switcher controlling groups of pedals. That really is the ultimate setup. The Plethora would work well in that scenario too as one of the pedals connected to a G2 or any kind of pedal switcher.
@@johnpasch9649 honestly, with the 5 slots, it's like you could have five different delays for a single song. or 2 and bring in trem, or vibe, or octave, so there is quite a bit of variety for tap dancing during songs. i have the flashback4, so if this thing legit sounds as good (and ive yet to hear that it does or doesnt, but it sure seems to in demos, and ive been thinking about that tap tremolo anyway). i think i may pull the trigger on this one and put it where the flashback was on my board. here's a question: do you know if i can transfer a preset from a glashback to the plethora?
@@stk7778 that is exactly what I did! I had the Flashback X4, Sub’nUp, and Wampler Teraform and replaced all that with the Plethora. The TCE pedals sound exactly the same and it is way more user-friendly than the Terraform. This latest update adds a phaser, vibe, and looper, plus midi control and other features too. The looper doesn’t have undo, but you can line up five of them if you want to. I kept my EHX Cathedral reverb but I gotta say I really like the HOF2 now that I have it in the Plethora.
I found this video while searching for midi controllers. I currently have a MusicomLab with 8 loops and midi. I realize I have got down to only using 2-3 loops but am now sending 4 midi messages to 4 pedals. Could the MS 3 do 2 loops and 4 midi messages? I want a smaller footprint for my controller. Thanks!
Does the MS-3 send midi preset change messages out? I used all rackmount gear in the 90's and early 2000's and I've always missed the ability to switch between exact presets rather than turning individual effects on/off. This sounds like a perfect piece of gear for that.
Great video functionality wise! A thing that I was wondering on, and you didn't really touch on that so much was sound quality difference between the two pedals, what to expect from each?
Sound quality wise, I don’t think you’ll go wrong with either. You might not like the presets out of the box, but with a little tweaking, I’m sure you could find the sounds that you’re looking for (within reason) on either pedal.
@@aaronabercrombie4610 One big difference is that the Plethora (currently) has no drives, so is just like the (great) TC G-System, whereas the MS-3 has OD and distortion. And the Plethora lets you run a drive pedal in a loop, but the MS-3 has three loops of potential. But as you say, both are great, just both are different...
Thanks for the vid. I’ve been exploring which multi effects units are out there to use with my multi channel amp. I own an H9 but it’s on a dedicated board with my Iridium.
We talked about that before I shot this. I think you might be able to do that, though I’m not sure that it’ll be as reliable as a patch. Example: When you switch to another pedalboard, what effects are on and what effects are off? Does it default to having them all off, or does it default to the way it was the last time it was used? I’d have to try it to see. But yeah, that might be a creative solution to building patches on the Plethora!
It remembers the last settings you used. So it will work like patches, either using the foot switching/toggle or midi. Midi can also use cc signals to change which pedals are on or off.
I traded in my TCE pedals for the Plethora and it sounds just like the pedals. I saved a ton of space on my board and simplified everything while improving flexibility.
Biggest difference between these 2 is that Plethora doesn't have any OD drive pedals and doesn't have patches. MS-3 is just an old Cosm modeler with crappy drives and effects from old Boss pedals. TC Electronics has better quality effects imo and you get their tone prints also. Plethora is designed for use like an analog pedal board with an amp. You use either your amp, or external, OD pedals for drive tones. That is a big asset cos the downside of these el cheapo Cosm modelers is that the drives/distortion patches are rubbish, you have to build patches, and all this gets in the way
Did you played Boss drives? You would be really shocked how few drives sounds. Rat and Ts are great. I had M9 for a while but the compresors, drives, modulation sounds way better on Ms3. But i think worts part of Ms are delays and reverbs. They really "digital" sounding. M9 wasnt worst...
@@duetmonroe5679 yeah I owned many Boss OD pedals over the years and played all of em. If the M9 delays and reverbs were also bad that one must have been a real dog. I ignore anything made by Line 6 :)
I'm sure I have previously seen a demo that demonstrates the Plethora having presets but they call it pedalboards and there also might be setlists too. The Plethora has a looper too unlike the Boss which doesn't
I dont see how they are over priced unless you think all pedals are over priced in the first place. Most basic pedals are around $80-$100. With these you get many pedals in one unit. The plethroa came with 12 pedals and I think they already added 3 more and a looper. On top of that, you can have multiples of the same pedal in the chain with different parameters. That includes having 5 loopers if you want. That pretty powerful. To replicate this kind of functionality would cost $1000s and become a wiring nightmare with all the power plugs and patch cables. While I agree that $449 sounds like a lot its much more cost effective than buying dozens of individual pedals.
Checkout the Sound Shootout here:
th-cam.com/video/JYTohtS7IeE/w-d-xo.html
2:54 SOLD. These Muti-Effects makers should always remember that a significant chunk chose the multi route because they don't want to tap dance. The option to have it as a chain/gate switch should always be there. And the companies should really standardized the name, not jumbled with their own patch/preset/bank/scene/memory mode/select because they just like it.
Nicely done video and, as an MS-3 user wondering if I made the right choice, it was great to see them physically side by side. I'd be happy to watch a video twice as long - nice presentation. Cheers from the UK!
Checkout the Sound Shootout here:
@7IeE
As a plethora user I was wondering the same thing. In fairness to tc they refer to each patch of 5 effects as boards which is quite an accurate term. I think the plethora has a great design (and a killer tuner which uses all 5 screens) but so far it's more limited in how you can use it than the ms-3. Which is pretty much what the reviewer said.
I've programmed a different board for each song we do on my Plethora, so a specific set of effects are available for each song. It's a little different approach than using a switch to completely change your entire setup, but I look at it as having a separate custom pedalboard for each song. I'm really picky about sounds and I think the Plethora sounds fantastic. I have all my drive pedals in the Plethora external fx loop, that way I can have a compressor in slot one, THEN go to my drive pedals then back in to 4 more FX. You can program where you want the fx loop to be in the chain, which is a fantastic feature, same with expression pedal used as volume control- you can place it wherever you like in the chain and have that programmed per board. FYI a looper was added as a firmware update. My big gripe is NO PROPER MANUAL. Big flunk for TC on that - they've had plenty of time. I've had to watch several videos to figure out some of the deep features. Their computer editor is clunky and definitely NOT full-featured. An editor akin to what the Helix has would be a godsend, but this is mostly just a clunky librarian that doesn't work all that well.
I got mine this week. I plan to do the same. It allows to have a particular sound for each song. Which is less possible with a classic pedalboard with single pedals.
Midi allows you to do all the things you want on the Plethora plus you can send midi from the MS3 and stick the Plethora in an MS3 loop. And you can save patches on the Plethora with some pedals on or off, and it has a simple looper built in.
Plethora has no drive pedals and no real EQ pedal. While MS-3 has drives, plus things like the TeraEcho and Slicer built in.
But the Plethora has Hall of Fame 2 reverb and Flashback 2 delay, as well as harmonisers, phasers, flangers, noise gate, sub n up, and a bunch of other pedals.
The plethora has a pc editor, plus the ability to download 75 “toneprints” which are tweaked presets for each pedal.
The MASH foot switches give you effectively an expression pedal for each effect so you can change the delay mix, the reverb length or up to three parameters on each pedal on each of the 128 boards (sets of five pedals).
Ideally I’d use both boxes together, with the MS-3 sending midi to the Pkethora … and then feed the stereo output to something like an Iridium or an HX Stomp.
The plethora is IMO great for acoustic players who don't currently use effects, it's the price of two HOF's... I'll be using mine with my EHX super switcher. It'd also great for new guitarists since it saves a lot of money buying those pedals, plus they're constantly adding to it.
Great video! Very enlightening as to the features. As others have said, it may be better to label future videos as "Functionality" or "Audio test" so that folks can find you faster. I was actually looking for a functionality comparison like you provided, and didn't need an audio test.
If you’re a plug and play kind of player like me, the boss is an absolute nightmare.
Especially if you use 4 cable method and the loop is accidentally off, you will blow up your gear.
WTF!!!??
I am. That's why I bought the Plethora.
I still think the MS3 is really good though (don't wanna be slaughtered by Boss fans)
So?
The Line6 PodGo and HX Stomp and Helix and their "snapshot" feature is a game changer for these kinds of things. The boss's patches definitely are a great feature but snapshots do all that and more. The Boss MS-3 would also be a possible Midi Controller to control midi rack gear, and could even switch midi-switchable amp channels for you. The HX Stomp and Helix Floor can also do that. Not sure about the Plethora. While it does have midi out I'm not sure it can SEND arbitrary midi program change commands.
The Plethora can NOT send any new midi, just pass through what it receives. So it can pass on patch/program changes that are on the same midi channel or on different ones. Note also that the Plethora ignores what’s coming in for about 300ms when you change patches (“boards”) as it’s busy loading the pedals. This means it also doesn’t keep trails going, it’s not passing on midi messages that arrive in those 300ms, and if you’re using the volume pedal to reduce the unaffected sound, it will blare back at full volume for those 300ms.
At 120bpm, each beat is 500ms, so it’s a gap of under one beat, but it can be annoying.
I have 2 MS-3's (one for bass and the other for guitar). I didn't struggle much at all with programming it. Compared to previous Boss multi-effects units, this is the most user friendly to date.Granted some of the automation features can be a bit confusing. But setting up each effect is pretty intuitive.
The only real advantage that the Plethora has is that the external loop can be placed in any point of the chain. I just wish that the MS-3 could have more flexibility in where the loops could be placed within the chain.
I think you can place the loops wherever you want within the chain. But the problem seems to be that the 3 loops cannot be separated from each other. It looks like they are hardwired side by side on the unit. I would expect having the 3 loops to be placed in the signal chain individually. That would make this product really perfect.
@@zaporoshti3392 Exactly. In fact, I thought that was what I had said. But yeah, had the loops been able to be placed in three different points within the chain based upon the patch, it would be the ultimate pice of kit for any rig.
answered lot's of my TC questions ! Thanks
I downsize from a Jesus the years ago… Started using the MS3 as mission control with analog petals… Was great… But I didn’t miss my TC effects… So I recently grabbed a plethora X.3… So now I have both….
I’ve only had the plethora for a day now… ButThe one thing that drives me crazy… Is no global external tempo tap…. Hopefully that will be coming in an update soon
Can you use the MS-3 to access different boards on the plethora for effect changes?
I love my MS-3
Plethora. It's more expensive but the UI and tones are better.
The drives on the MS-3 don't sound so good to my ears.
With a MIDI controller, surely there's a way to set up something like patches on the Plethora? I have a Boss ES-8 and love it, but having the Plethora would maybe free up a ton of loops for more drives and a couple for an extra analog modulation & delay pedal.
You totally misrepresented the Plethora. Way off! The patches you refer to are pedalboards on the Plethora. Just three quick taps to change your pedalboard on the Plethora as you demonstrated. While on your pedalboard you can individually turn off and on pedals. You can store 127 different pedalboards with your choice of five pedals on each board. In fact, that is the main thing about the Plethora, which is pretty amazing that you missed it.
Three taps (as opposed to one), to move from patch to patch, to me doesn’t seem like the intention of the board. It’s a great feature, and I get that you could make it kind of like the MS3 in that way, especially when adding a midi controller. But having sat down and played with both, to me it feels like you’re Jerry-rigging the Plethora to do something it isn’t intended to do (especially without a midi controller).
If someone told me the Plethora was exactly like the MS3 in its functionality to build patches, I would definitely say that THEY’RE misrepresenting the pedal.
do the pedalboards have a configuration of which pedals are on or off when you switch to that board? here's a way of asking it: can i switch from chorus/delay/reverb to compressor/vibe in one stomp?
@@stk7778 each Plethora pedalboard will always be the way you left it the last time it was used. As for one stomp, switching pedalboards in the middle of a song isn’t seamless and takes a few seconds. You can do that but it’s not instant. It sounds like you would rather have presets on a pedal switcher controlling groups of pedals. That really is the ultimate setup. The Plethora would work well in that scenario too as one of the pedals connected to a G2 or any kind of pedal switcher.
@@johnpasch9649 honestly, with the 5 slots, it's like you could have five different delays for a single song. or 2 and bring in trem, or vibe, or octave, so there is quite a bit of variety for tap dancing during songs. i have the flashback4, so if this thing legit sounds as good (and ive yet to hear that it does or doesnt, but it sure seems to in demos, and ive been thinking about that tap tremolo anyway). i think i may pull the trigger on this one and put it where the flashback was on my board. here's a question: do you know if i can transfer a preset from a glashback to the plethora?
@@stk7778 that is exactly what I did! I had the Flashback X4, Sub’nUp, and Wampler Teraform and replaced all that with the Plethora. The TCE pedals sound exactly the same and it is way more user-friendly than the Terraform. This latest update adds a phaser, vibe, and looper, plus midi control and other features too. The looper doesn’t have undo, but you can line up five of them if you want to. I kept my EHX Cathedral reverb but I gotta say I really like the HOF2 now that I have it in the Plethora.
is there an envilope filter , auto wah, mutron like effect possible in the plethora?
whats the best expression pedal to use with the plethora x5? been thinking about the mission sp h9
I found this video while searching for midi controllers. I currently have a MusicomLab with 8 loops and midi. I realize I have got down to only using 2-3 loops but am now sending 4 midi messages to 4 pedals. Could the MS 3 do 2 loops and 4 midi messages? I want a smaller footprint for my controller. Thanks!
Noob here, but is a pre-amp fixed into the board?
Does the MS-3 send midi preset change messages out? I used all rackmount gear in the 90's and early 2000's and I've always missed the ability to switch between exact presets rather than turning individual effects on/off. This sounds like a perfect piece of gear for that.
It does!
So helpful.
Great video functionality wise! A thing that I was wondering on, and you didn't really touch on that so much was sound quality difference between the two pedals, what to expect from each?
Sound quality wise, I don’t think you’ll go wrong with either. You might not like the presets out of the box, but with a little tweaking, I’m sure you could find the sounds that you’re looking for (within reason) on either pedal.
@@aaronabercrombie4610 One big difference is that the Plethora (currently) has no drives, so is just like the (great) TC G-System, whereas the MS-3 has OD and distortion. And the Plethora lets you run a drive pedal in a loop, but the MS-3 has three loops of potential. But as you say, both are great, just both are different...
Checkout the Sound Shootout here:
@7IeE
Getting a plethora the second TCelectronic adds the phaser
you dont have to wait since youll be able to update the board with their phaser updates when/if they drop
I have both but also doing looping but only recently purchased the MS3 . Hopefully cut down the dancing on pedals 😬
Thanks for the vid. I’ve been exploring which multi effects units are out there to use with my multi channel amp. I own an H9 but it’s on a dedicated board with my Iridium.
Great video! Theoretically, couldn’t you use a midi controller to switch between boards or “patches” on the plethora?
We talked about that before I shot this. I think you might be able to do that, though I’m not sure that it’ll be as reliable as a patch.
Example: When you switch to another pedalboard, what effects are on and what effects are off? Does it default to having them all off, or does it default to the way it was the last time it was used? I’d have to try it to see. But yeah, that might be a creative solution to building patches on the Plethora!
It remembers the last settings you used. So it will work like patches, either using the foot switching/toggle or midi. Midi can also use cc signals to change which pedals are on or off.
Yes! The Plethora has midi too.
I would suggest an A/B shootout of the tones. Otherwise the conversation is moot.
Checkout the Sound Shootout here:
@7IeE
I traded in my TCE pedals for the Plethora and it sounds just like the pedals. I saved a ton of space on my board and simplified everything while improving flexibility.
Biggest difference between these 2 is that Plethora doesn't have any OD drive pedals and doesn't have patches. MS-3 is just an old Cosm modeler with crappy drives and effects from old Boss pedals. TC Electronics has better quality effects imo and you get their tone prints also. Plethora is designed for use like an analog pedal board with an amp. You use either your amp, or external, OD pedals for drive tones. That is a big asset cos the downside of these el cheapo Cosm modelers is that the drives/distortion patches are rubbish, you have to build patches, and all this gets in the way
Bingo. TC FTW
Did you played Boss drives? You would be really shocked how few drives sounds. Rat and Ts are great. I had M9 for a while but the compresors, drives, modulation sounds way better on Ms3. But i think worts part of Ms are delays and reverbs. They really "digital" sounding. M9 wasnt worst...
@@duetmonroe5679 yeah I owned many Boss OD pedals over the years and played all of em. If the M9 delays and reverbs were also bad that one must have been a real dog. I ignore anything made by Line 6 :)
Plethora doesent manage presets??? Wow... Next!!!
I'm sure I have previously seen a demo that demonstrates the Plethora having presets but they call it pedalboards and there also might be setlists too. The Plethora has a looper too unlike the Boss which doesn't
So no sound demo I'm out
who cares?
The sound of the Pethora is just like the sound of TCE pedals. Awesome.
This video is as important as the sound demo one for people who's deciding.
If you’d read the comments he gives the link to the sound demos!
Both over priced....plethora more so
I dont see how they are over priced unless you think all pedals are over priced in the first place. Most basic pedals are around $80-$100. With these you get many pedals in one unit. The plethroa came with 12 pedals and I think they already added 3 more and a looper. On top of that, you can have multiples of the same pedal in the chain with different parameters. That includes having 5 loopers if you want. That pretty powerful. To replicate this kind of functionality would cost $1000s and become a wiring nightmare with all the power plugs and patch cables. While I agree that $449 sounds like a lot its much more cost effective than buying dozens of individual pedals.