Weird rush that is normally suboptimal, but Arty also reacted poorly, so it ended up working. He lost so many SCVs repairing that last bunker at the end of the cannon rush, that crippled him. He defended well up to that point. He would have been in a better shape if he started the bunker farther to the right (between gas and CC) so that his scvs were out of cannon range while repairing, or at least have a better pathing. In this case the opponent got so much value with 1 zealot blocking SCV pathing going over to repair.
@@davidclay3737 What would you have done? Not trying to be smart here, i really want to know what the move is. If the toss have managed to get a canon up there is basically 3 options the way i see it. 1. Attack the canon with all you got and kill it, like he tried here. Never really had any success with that move, you really need to pull the scv's before the canon finishes or you're dead. 2. Put a bunker between your gas and their canon, build a factory tech siege asap. 3. Pull all you got and go for their base, mine for as long as you can and then lift to the natural.
@@Lappmogel I am no SC expert but being able to look at the entire game. I believe the correct play was to use the marines at max range to focus down the forward pylon, and building the bunker. Getting the bunker up and getting rid of the forward pylon reduces the threat. A few SCVs are needed to help body block the zealots. Once the bunker is up it will be hard for the Protoss to push with cannons. Artosis had an over reaction to move into the cannons, had he waited and tried to hold he could have done better.
Dude RT saw 1 of the 4 probes run away @1:16 and it was so obvious that he went to make a pylon. But as per RTs mantra, he refused to scout… Even in his own base. If he sent like 8 SCvs to kill that first pylon he would have been fine. Also letting those marines die when he broke out and not targeting the pylon ? Like wtf man haha… There’s no way u should ever lose to that rush.
He lost because he had a bunker south of minerals FULL of marines that just sat there and watched when they needed to be shooting. Mystifying that he let his whole army just sit there doing nothing. Also his micro is unfathomably bad.
After Artosis goes down the ramp, instead of getting a bunker or some gas, he decides to throw his marine group away trying to take down the proxy gate with no factory units in sight. Why???
Counted a handful of build order and strategic mistakes...like building the second depot way too early...building the lower mineral bunker when there was never a need or reason to and not scouting for cannon rush when it looked exactly like that was happening when a probe went off to make a pylon and came back...and a lot of bad micro...especially losing all those scvs repairing the bunker and those rines at the natural...l for no reason at all. But yeah....totally unfair...no one could of held that...just unfair...
0:20 I havent played Starcraft 1 in about 20 years, but i played my fair share of Starcraft 2... How is a terran not able to get a barracks up before a protoss builds a pylon, a gateway and a zealot outside your main? Is he delaying the barracks by a lot? And is the meta to never scout?
Bit late but basically the Terran opening is you delay military for the sake of economy, and with your first CC up you can defend 99% of Protoss aggression with just a bunker. This puts you even with Protoss if Protoss expanded early and ahead of Protoss if Protoss went for pressure, because you have an expo his pressure build can't really do more than poke. The weak spot is that if Protoss cheeses you (like here), you're left with a delayed rax and have to micro one or two hero marines through the gaps between your buildings while you get an emergency bunker up in your main. And well if you watch Artosis regularly you'll notice he's kind of overconfident in his micro. As for scouting, Terran usually is scouting at 12-13 supply (you can see the clip starts with Artosis having an SCV on the map). You don't scout earlier because even if you could catch the proxy still building, there's no way to shut it down. You have to defend the cheese at home.
Sorry, from someone like Arty who plays and knows the game for 20 years i dont accept any excuses. If he refuses to admit his own mistakes then i dont want to hear any complains about game balance.
@@KorewaKosmo They have like 7 workers and invested 1000 into cannons while you lose like 600 in mining while on 15+ workers. You have a barracks and they haven't started a gateway.
@@XDezibellX bro u realize he has zealot production... what you think it's gonna happen while you float your shit away to find a new base and stop mining, scv and marine production
Yeah that’s really the key in this whole vid. Even at the end he is struggling to macro on low Econ while at the same time never pulling any marines back to kite a zeal. It’s kind of insane how he can’t predict where unit interactions will happen in an engagement after 23 years. The other major flaw was not just sending scv and marine to stop the first pylon, fairly obvious this was coming when you have multi probe in your base lol(or if he had scouted opponents Main and saw the forge that wasn’t hidden)
Yea, it's pretty unfair. Imagine if it was a zerg doing something like that to a toss, and toss goes "oh, no, he has 2 proxy hatches and is pushing me with sunkens, better defend with a single cannon and 1 gate worth of zealots without cutting probes!"
Protoss invests 250 into proxy gate (pylon + gate), 800 into cannon rush, Artosis needs to scout / stop the cannon with heavy SCV pull before its up. Why should paltry one rax marine beat almost 1k min investment from protoss? Simple econ tells u difference in investment / how serious you have to take the cannon rush.
This replay is exactly why broodwar is broken. There's a reason why 74% of the ladder all plays the same race. Amd out side of S rank its 83%. Game is fundamentally broken but because Flash can play with a handicap. They just left the game broken
Exactly. It's a well known fact that Brood War is one of the most imbalanced games ever made! That's why there has never been any competitive scene in Brood War. This anti-terran imbalance has been shown recently with Terran winning ASL 2022, and getting second place 2022 (grand finals were TvT), and ASL 2021 with Terran getting 1st and 3rd place. Clearly Terran is extremely unplayable and Protoss is OP!
My main race in SC2 is Terran. I know I'm bronze in SC2, I did once get up to platinum using some pro build orders as a crutch to improving, but deep down my core skills are still at bronze. However, one of my main expertise is doing weird builds and having fun cheese. Micro > Macro. If this is all it takes to become an A rank Protoss, even I can do it too! Just pull 4 probes, proxy a gateway, make zealots, and then micro while cannon rushing, and if in doubt go double nexus and straight to carrier.
@@Fabel555 I'd disagree, pro build orders and timing pushes can significantly improve a player's rank. But if every Protoss is like what Arty faces on a regular basis, then you don't need any of those to improve ranks.
You are going to have a hard time reaching A rank if your SC2 skills are bronze league, even if you use these type of cheese builds. The bigger need of good mechanics and the amount of extra APM you need to micro and macro properly, both compared to SC2, will not allow you to reach the higher ranks.
Weird rush that is normally suboptimal, but Arty also reacted poorly, so it ended up working. He lost so many SCVs repairing that last bunker at the end of the cannon rush, that crippled him. He defended well up to that point. He would have been in a better shape if he started the bunker farther to the right (between gas and CC) so that his scvs were out of cannon range while repairing, or at least have a better pathing. In this case the opponent got so much value with 1 zealot blocking SCV pathing going over to repair.
Weird rush that is normally suboptimal, but Arty also reacted poorly, so it ended up working. He lost so many SCVs repairing that last bunker at the end of the cannon rush, that crippled him. He defended well up to that point. He would have been in a better shape if he started the bunker farther to the right (between gas and CC) so that his scvs were out of cannon range while repairing, or at least have a better pathing. In this case the opponent got so much value with 1 zealot blocking SCV pathing going over to repair.
Attacking into those cannons with the zealots was not good. He had 5 SCV's afterwards.
toss is like "I can't believe that worked, man that guy was bad" before popping his 9th beer for the night
you know... i wonder if he could have just floated his cc down south? idk.
@@davidclay3737 What would you have done? Not trying to be smart here, i really want to know what the move is. If the toss have managed to get a canon up there is basically 3 options the way i see it.
1. Attack the canon with all you got and kill it, like he tried here. Never really had any success with that move, you really need to pull the scv's before the canon finishes or you're dead.
2. Put a bunker between your gas and their canon, build a factory tech siege asap.
3. Pull all you got and go for their base, mine for as long as you can and then lift to the natural.
@@Lappmogel I am no SC expert but being able to look at the entire game. I believe the correct play was to use the marines at max range to focus down the forward pylon, and building the bunker. Getting the bunker up and getting rid of the forward pylon reduces the threat. A few SCVs are needed to help body block the zealots. Once the bunker is up it will be hard for the Protoss to push with cannons. Artosis had an over reaction to move into the cannons, had he waited and tried to hold he could have done better.
we fed a lot of units to cannons, homie
With this camera set up it looks like RT is sitting very low behind the desk so he has to put his hands up on it
Saw this title and clicked so fast… I expect some good rage here!
Again Arty queing up 3 scvs instead of dropping a 2nd rax
hes trained himself to think you should never build a second rax in any situation against P, won't flex on it
Dude RT saw 1 of the 4 probes run away @1:16 and it was so obvious that he went to make a pylon. But as per RTs mantra, he refused to scout… Even in his own base. If he sent like 8 SCvs to kill that first pylon he would have been fine. Also letting those marines die when he broke out and not targeting the pylon ? Like wtf man haha… There’s no way u should ever lose to that rush.
That wasn't even cheese, Arty's opponent threw the entire dairy farm at him!
It looks like the opponent is always willing to cut workers to cheese. But arty will never cut worker to counter a cheese.
arty cuts his sanity instead
anytime arty lose a game, he lose few brain cells as well
@@kurosumomo at least we aren't cutting wrists yet
Artosis gets so mad and irrational I love it. Makes me feel better about myself and to not let myself get like that!
This game is his life.
Arty in baby hands, so quick and responsive!🤣
That was an awesome cheese. The Protoss wanted it more.
Where tf did "at a professional level" come from? What's that have to do with these A rank games?
Second depot up before rax finishes? 1 rax vs 2 gate? Wtf u doin?
Cant micro on one base LUL
would love to see how you micro on that spot LUL
Great strategy. Good job toss.
arty... i... i'm sorry arty...
nice cheese hold minus the part where protoss has 3 times arty's worker count
@1:44 that's because he boxed both marines and move-commanded them so they box-moved.
nope, he only selected 1 marine. the reason it didn't move is because he right clicked on the south marine instead of empty space
Dude what a god tier hold against the cannon rush fr
he didnt hold? he lost?
@@adamlouis3725 he defend cannons in base. Won battle lost war.
That was pretty gross
almost had me fooled and had me thinking tosis was gonna pull this one out of his azz lol
You'd think that after the hundredth cheese arty would incorporate some building placement that could shut down half arsed cheese like this.
@Renzo Alarcón I'm sure there are dozens of guides for you out there that can explain to you better than me in a youtube comment section.
His building placement is pretty much in line with what the pros do. This is bw, there is no easy counter to cheese like that other than „git gud“.
His issue here is build based, nothing his buildings can do when he has anti zealot micro hole. Has to pull and kill first cannon more efficiently.
or scout
If Orange would’ve focused the scv not the bunker with his cannons he would’ve won earlier
That push out was stupid, or at least done poorly
Just realized the SCVs stupid construction behaviour is to balance out their absolutely amazing repair ability.
Love the way he lost. So humiliating
@6:23 that natural has like 4 probes at it. Pans to main. 6 probes on every block. 😂😂😂😂😂
He lost because he had a bunker south of minerals FULL of marines that just sat there and watched when they needed to be shooting. Mystifying that he let his whole army just sit there doing nothing. Also his micro is unfathomably bad.
I just realised I love watching Arty lose lol.
I prefer these scrappy games than a macro fest
After Artosis goes down the ramp, instead of getting a bunker or some gas, he decides to throw his marine group away trying to take down the proxy gate with no factory units in sight. Why???
Because he was so far behind at that point that his only chance was getting going all in.
Jesus...that micro....facepalm
Counted a handful of build order and strategic mistakes...like building the second depot way too early...building the lower mineral bunker when there was never a need or reason to and not scouting for cannon rush when it looked exactly like that was happening when a probe went off to make a pylon and came back...and a lot of bad micro...especially losing all those scvs repairing the bunker and those rines at the natural...l for no reason at all. But yeah....totally unfair...no one could of held that...just unfair...
He said he builds the depot early when he gets zealot rushed because he needs to micro too much after
0:20 I havent played Starcraft 1 in about 20 years, but i played my fair share of Starcraft 2... How is a terran not able to get a barracks up before a protoss builds a pylon, a gateway and a zealot outside your main? Is he delaying the barracks by a lot? And is the meta to never scout?
Bit late but basically the Terran opening is you delay military for the sake of economy, and with your first CC up you can defend 99% of Protoss aggression with just a bunker. This puts you even with Protoss if Protoss expanded early and ahead of Protoss if Protoss went for pressure, because you have an expo his pressure build can't really do more than poke. The weak spot is that if Protoss cheeses you (like here), you're left with a delayed rax and have to micro one or two hero marines through the gaps between your buildings while you get an emergency bunker up in your main. And well if you watch Artosis regularly you'll notice he's kind of overconfident in his micro.
As for scouting, Terran usually is scouting at 12-13 supply (you can see the clip starts with Artosis having an SCV on the map). You don't scout earlier because even if you could catch the proxy still building, there's no way to shut it down. You have to defend the cheese at home.
Why would he choose to move out there is beyond me lol
Barracks after second depot?
Does Artosis have something against scouting?
The more advanced alien race would have an advantage in real life, BUUUUUUUUUT THIS IS A GAME! Gotta have balance for fun.
Why won't he make two barracks when he's getting rushed?
Because it's such a massive investment that instantly becomes worthless the moment a cybercore is dropped
Sure 150 plus marines is masively more expensive that like 12 dead svcs, plus repair time for like another 6 scvs, plus the preassure.
@@JorgeTapia29141???
7:35 Just kill the friggin buildings, stop chasing the zealot!!
life isn't fair arty, get over it!
Sorry, from someone like Arty who plays and knows the game for 20 years i dont accept any excuses.
If he refuses to admit his own mistakes then i dont want to hear any complains about game balance.
Idk why but watching this guy get dumpstered on is hilarious
I’m at minute 6 - why is he still in the game?
When they invest 1000 minerals into cannons in your main, have you considered flying your flying buildings away?
and lose a shit tone of mining time lol,,,, great idea bro
@@KorewaKosmo They have like 7 workers and invested 1000 into cannons while you lose like 600 in mining while on 15+ workers. You have a barracks and they haven't started a gateway.
@@XDezibellX bro u realize he has zealot production... what you think it's gonna happen while you float your shit away to find a new base and stop mining, scv and marine production
I applaud Arty.
But his micro. Srsly. He just watches marines stand and die. Hes like refusing to micro them vs zealots at critical times.
Maybe he was ritually sacrificing those marines to the BW gods to see if he could win their favor?
Yeah that’s really the key in this whole vid. Even at the end he is struggling to macro on low Econ while at the same time never pulling any marines back to kite a zeal. It’s kind of insane how he can’t predict where unit interactions will happen in an engagement after 23 years.
The other major flaw was not just sending scv and marine to stop the first pylon, fairly obvious this was coming when you have multi probe in your base lol(or if he had scouted opponents Main and saw the forge that wasn’t hidden)
still he defended that very well!
he didnt defend it, he lost
mini does this a lot, so it's legit ^^
with these whiny poor excuses, arty should be a candidate for the next president of fifa
can we take a minute to appreciate how broken protoss gateway units are in every single matchup in this game lmao
you're clueless
Yea, it's pretty unfair. Imagine if it was a zerg doing something like that to a toss, and toss goes "oh, no, he has 2 proxy hatches and is pushing me with sunkens, better defend with a single cannon and 1 gate worth of zealots without cutting probes!"
Protoss invests 250 into proxy gate (pylon + gate), 800 into cannon rush, Artosis needs to scout / stop the cannon with heavy SCV pull before its up. Why should paltry one rax marine beat almost 1k min investment from protoss? Simple econ tells u difference in investment / how serious you have to take the cannon rush.
Wah wah
This replay is exactly why broodwar is broken. There's a reason why 74% of the ladder all plays the same race.
Amd out side of S rank its 83%. Game is fundamentally broken but because Flash can play with a handicap. They just left the game broken
99% of morons worldwide are terrans and believe what artosis says about BW balance ( I can make up stats too)
Exactly. It's a well known fact that Brood War is one of the most imbalanced games ever made! That's why there has never been any competitive scene in Brood War.
This anti-terran imbalance has been shown recently with Terran winning ASL 2022, and getting second place 2022 (grand finals were TvT), and ASL 2021 with Terran getting 1st and 3rd place. Clearly Terran is extremely unplayable and Protoss is OP!
it was overconfidence
My main race in SC2 is Terran. I know I'm bronze in SC2, I did once get up to platinum using some pro build orders as a crutch to improving, but deep down my core skills are still at bronze. However, one of my main expertise is doing weird builds and having fun cheese. Micro > Macro. If this is all it takes to become an A rank Protoss, even I can do it too!
Just pull 4 probes, proxy a gateway, make zealots, and then micro while cannon rushing, and if in doubt go double nexus and straight to carrier.
What the hell are you even saying. A BO not going to help you that much lol
@@Fabel555 I'd disagree, pro build orders and timing pushes can significantly improve a player's rank.
But if every Protoss is like what Arty faces on a regular basis, then you don't need any of those to improve ranks.
@@Damicikus Do it then and let us know when you go from bronze in sc2 to A rank BW protoss zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
@@avanhokie In broodwar, Zergs and Protoss get everything for free, so I think I got a real solid chance!
You are going to have a hard time reaching A rank if your SC2 skills are bronze league, even if you use these type of cheese builds. The bigger need of good mechanics and the amount of extra APM you need to micro and macro properly, both compared to SC2, will not allow you to reach the higher ranks.
how can he still say sc1 is better than sc2 after games like that?
so disappointing ending
i've never seen someone's left hand looked more unrelaxed and skitzo while playing SC
should have plled scvs earlier
If this game is so bad then why do you keep playing it?
only unfair shit i can see is 4 scvs nonstop reparing bunker for half hour.
5:42 making a second gate = cheese. stop embarrassing yourself farty
Weird rush that is normally suboptimal, but Arty also reacted poorly, so it ended up working. He lost so many SCVs repairing that last bunker at the end of the cannon rush, that crippled him. He defended well up to that point. He would have been in a better shape if he started the bunker farther to the right (between gas and CC) so that his scvs were out of cannon range while repairing, or at least have a better pathing. In this case the opponent got so much value with 1 zealot blocking SCV pathing going over to repair.