Errata! At 32:30 I start comparing CME to Spirit Guardians, but I meant Spirit Shroud, of course. Stupid Brain. Also! I'm anticipating people saying I should have grabbed Shillelagh (whether via magical secrets or, easier, the magic initiate Druid feat) to use a club instead of a short sword and then get Pact of the Blade from Warlock (or the Eldritch Adept feat) so we can be a Charisma SAD Bard. It’s not a bad idea - especially since the damage from Shillelagh is higher (1d8) and scales. The potential downfall here is threefold: 1 - since clubs have the slow mastery instead of the short sword’s vex, you’d have advantage less often and would thus hit less on average. In the end, using a shillelagh’d club would do more damage at low enemy AC’s and less at higher enemy AC’s, depending on your level etc. 2 - Shillelagh is a BA to cast and only lasts a minute, which could potentially slow down our damage (depending on our level and what other self-buff spell we might be casting). 3 - You'd need that Warlock investment early, which would delay our early game even further than I already was via the Fighter dip (plus, I really like having a Familiar and Booming Blade/GFB, though I suppose we could've picked up the new True Strike instead which does *almost* as much damage, or, sure, gone Human to get two Origin Feats...). I think I probably stick with the route I went, personally, but it’s a valid option that I wish I would’ve thought to discuss before I recorded the video!
@DnDDeepDive if you want to be SAD with a Shortsword (Vex) and Scimitar (Nick), you could make the Shortsword your pact blade and use True Strike for your single Scimitar Nick attack.
I'd really like to see your take on the new Eldritch Knight next! Hopefully a great weapon, polearm, or even weapon and shield style character. Pushing and cleaving enemies around, combining blade cantrips with your masteries, pushing enemies into web since you get wide open spell options now for control or utility. I'm excited to see it!
@@forestcaine I think it's great! Cantrip extra attack and added spell versatility with each access to magic initiate or species based spells will actually make you feel pretty powerful. Also many of the cantrips were buffed, like true strike, blade ward, thaumaturgy, etc.
But need to beware of the legendary dragon-touched focus magic item which could upcast any spell to lv 9 one per day then... Full Lv 20 EK concentrating on a Lv 9 upcasted CME...
Totally agree! It'd be super nice to briefly cover the best gish cantrips from only the 5.24 spell list too. (ie if there's no Booming Blade etc available)
@@DnDDeepDive I've got another and even better idea: DM: "Let me see if you can stay a murder hobo in this campaign, bard. There are 100 NPCs in this town, and all of them have around 500 HP *(evil laugh)*" Bard: "*(smirk)* Hold my beer, DM. I can still do it!" This shows how insane that build is.
Most DMs: "We need to homebrew and Errata this immediately!" My DM: "You enter the chamber, Saruman has already formed his Simulacrum, and they both cast Conjure minor elementals"
Sword bard after a two level paladin dip were very effective sword and board damage dealers. Dual wielder lets them do three smites with the shield as an improvised off hand attack. Shield master adds evasion.
I like the fix by Chris @TreantmonksTemple: Upcasting is only 1d8 every other level like Spirit Shroud to create an interesting choice between the two. CME would still deal 1d8 more damage than Spirit Shroud if both were cast using a spell slot of level 4, 6, or 8. As a Bladesinger, I would probably prepare both and adapt to the circumstances.
The big problem in that scenario though is that it takes an action to cast rather than Spirit Shroud's BA... depending on the fight, a little more damage per hit might not be worth using your full action to cast. Of course, you could always cast round 1, BA Bladesong, then start attacking round 2. Just feels bad to waste a whole round buffing, I guess.
@@DnDDeepDive If you're doing a dungeon crawl, going room to room, though, there is no question that you cast this and then do as many rooms as you can.
disclaimer: I'm not coming from a optimizer place, but seeking balance instead. So less numbers, more horizontality. And then, I came with a different fix for CME. I wasn't a fan of Treantmok's approach mostly because it doesn't tackle the biggest mistake on CME's development imo: the fact that its synergy resides in something kinda alien to their OG classes (Wizard and Druid): multiattack. So here is the fix i posted in some of Treantmonk's comments, and now for you guys to think about. The header is the same, action, self, components, concentration up to 10 min: *** You conjure spirits from the Elemental Planes that flit around you in a 15-foot Emanation for the duration. The Emanation is considered Difficult Terrain for your enemies. Until the spell ends, you can use your Bonus Action to make a melee magic attack against one creature in the Emanation. On a hit, you deal 2d8 damage that is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack). You can also make this attack using a Reaction when a creature you can see or hear ends its turn in the Emanation. The damage increases by 2d8 for each spell slot level above 4. *** So the gist here is to use action economy as the balance, and somewhat reinforce that the spell effect is to conjure extraplanar forces that deal damage, but they need your focus (actions) to manifest. While at the same time mechanically untying them to multiattack to avoid encouraging multiclass shenanigans while they are still fun and viable, should not ignore the OG flavor of things imo Thanks for everyone who participates in these discussions, and special thanks to DnDDeepDive and Treantmonk for bringing us these content in the first place!
@@Itomonthe problem with that approach is you are still just probably better off using scorching ray or something right? More chances to crit similar damage and it's more front loaded. Combats typically last 3 rounds, this spell deals a lot of damage twice. Compare that to the warlock from last week doing its damage for 3 rounds the numbers are similar.
@@BinxyBrown But if you compare it with a spell that is instant, then surely CME should have a caveat? If the combat takes longer, then CME is better (also, CME can still crit)
A big aspect that makes this so powerful is that you can split up damage a LOT with so many attacks. It’s not the old paladin super nova that had 2 or 3 huge attacks at higher levels. It eventually has up to 7 attacks that are all significant, so you can jump into the middle of the fray and destroy a bunch of small or even medium enemies or you can get to the red dragon and just kill them
@@druxusthemage9806 Made a bladelock build for it the other day and realized that Warlock is now a better Fighter than Fighter. 3 attacks at level 12 Spirit shroud for damage Utility spells AoE damage Free Teleports that do damage Proficiency with all melee weapons Free Mage Armor for good AC Eldritch Smite and Life Drinker
Just sooooo many different builds for this crazy spell. I saw straight wizard build, cast CME 9th level and then started casting Scorching Ray at 8th, 7th, 6th...etc. They also used Spell Sniper....
You and Chris should do a special episode where you compare and contrast your approaches to this week's builds! PS: bonus if you collabrate on an elf + Elven Accuracy + Foresight endgame build. PPS: finishing to level 20 with this build lets you get to 4 Warlock and finish with 16 bard for TWO epic boon feats
I highly recommend a Scimitar + Club combination and add Shilleghla to the Build. Also War Caster Feat is sort of Must Have. If a groupmember can give you an opportnity attack you can cast another EB + CME on that round. At level 17 you can have 3 Melee Attacks + 8! Eldritch Blasts.The Average dmg to AC10 then is 511 dmg. To AC15 it's 460 dmg. To AC18 it's 383 dmg. To AC20 it's 332 and to AC25 it still is 203 dmg. If you want to burst the dmg even more you can use the Valor Bards offense combat inspirations to add 6d12 on top of all that. All at lv17 with the dmg calc in the description. At lv20 you could go nuts and take Thirsting Blade invocation to add another Attack with your Pact Weapon to reach a max burst dmg of 7d6 + 96d8 + 8d10 + 6d12 + 62 😀
Love your work! :-) Here is something to potentially look into :-) Of all things, a Champion Fighter can do crazy damage with Fighting Styles and Masteries… and at later levels has permanent advantage on every attack This is by throwing as many Handaxes (Vex) as possible, and one Light Hammer (Nick). BUT only holding one weapon at a time with nothing in the other hand and so is able to benefit from: Dueling (+2 damage, per attack) Thrown Weapon Fighting (+2 damage, per attack) Two-Weapon Fighting (+ability mod, per turn) Species: Bugbear, Background Feat: Alert 17 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 8 Cha Fighter 1 Handaxe:3d6+5 BA:Handaxe:3d6+2 Burst Damage: 21 DPR/4 rounds: 13
Fighter 5 Handaxe:3d6+6 (2)Handaxe:3d6+6 (3)Handaxe:3d6+6 (4)Handaxe:3d6+6 BA:Handaxe:3d6+2 Light_Hammer:1d4+2d6+2 Burst: 82 DPR/4: 38 Fighter 11 Handaxe:3d6+9 (2)Handaxe:3d6+9 (3)Handaxe:3d6+9 (4)Handaxe:3d6+9 (5)Handaxe:3d6+9 (6)Handaxe:3d6+9 BA:Handaxe:3d6+4 Light_Hammer:1d4+2d6+9 Burst: 142 DPR/4: 74 This is using average enemy AC per Lv/CR to work out chance to hit and also adding crit damage x crit chance BTW, I spent a long time making an excel document which calculates the Vex chances to hit, the different optimal attack patterns based on level and then making other versions to compare adding in options like Hunter’s Mark etc. If you want to check my work: 1drv.ms/x/s!AhXS148YnKvBgepdjm0XqOawVhvtQw?e=VPJnqd
Would love to see you take a look at the new Archfey Warlock. I'm not sure if it's up there in terms of power level, but I love the flavor of a trickster constantly flitting around just out of reach. Could be a fun way to play a support character that can keep themselves out of harm's way.
One idea for a nerf that still differentiates CME from Spirit Shroud would be to lean into it's slightly longer range and use spirit shroud scaling, but expand the range to 30 or 60 feet. There are a lot of ways to combine spell casting and melee but not much in the way of improving ranged combat. There could be an interesting niche for CME in supporting a "spellbow" archetype.
@colby You can get all proficiencies at lvl 2 now: skilled can be taken repeatedly. So: take human for two origin feats and 2lvl warlock for 3 invocations which each can be an origin feat aswell. That brings us to: 5*3 invocations from skilled +2 from our background + 2 from warlock. So you would have in theory 19 proficiencies but as there are one 18 you had one left over. Afterwards grab whatever you want, soulknife would be an awesome choice.
@@PinkMuffin2104 The Warlock invocation states that you have to choose a different feat every time you take it. So while you can take skilled multiple times, you can only take it through the invocation once.
In my opinion, there are two ways that we can go when reworking CME-- 1. Keep the 2d8 extra damage, but bump it up only every other spell level (6th and 8th). 2. Keep the 2d8 per level scaling, but make the extra damage apply only to one successful attack per round. I don't know if that's still too OP, but it's a lot less crazy than the Conjure Minor Apocalypse we have now.
I think once per turn would be best. If it's meant for Druids and Wizards, they don't tend to get multi attack. Wildshaped druids and bladesingers do, but I think once per turn would work well.
Great Final Thoughts - skip to that if you don't normally. I too want to try this build but without CME and you've convinced me it will be ok. I can't see any reasonable table allowing it to stay in its current form, so I appreciate you planning to skip it going forward. Any build that has it heavily included will be fairly invalidated at the average table.
To be clear in regards to the fly by familiar...not sure it works in 2024 Ready Action _First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your Speed in response to it_ If the familiar readies an action, they can either take the action or move....not both. Had a long conversation with my DM, who hates familiars, about it.
I like this concept. It's very entertaining. It's like conjuring your own light show to accompany your flourishing fighting style. I don't think they will change Conjure Minor Elementals. This is why. 1st of all, it's a 4th level spell. This comes online, at the earliest, at lvl 7. 8 if you make this build. 2d8 isn't a lot of damage. It's, on average, 8 additional damage. Next, you have to get this online. This takes an entire round or more to get it online. Lastly, you require concentration be maintained and, considering the vast number of ways to incapacitate a player, it's easy to break this without needing a concentration check. Overall, this looks very cool, very fun, loads of great potential, and gives you a lot of flexibility, but it's not overpowering at all. I think Conjure Minor elementals has a lot of hype, but like Spirit Guardians, rarely will deliver it's potential. I do love this concept! I would say that this concept could be really fun with a lot of possible spell combinations.
My homebrew idea for CME? Utilize the Emanation. You and allied creatures within the Emanation deal an additional 2d8 damage on the first attack they make each of their turns. Heighten +1d8 per spell slot level above (is it 4th? I can't remember). The spell still has the potential to do a lot of damage, but is party/build dependent, and really helps out those characters with summons up in melee with you (Beastmaster Ranger, spellcasters with Summons, any melee combatant), so on the surface it's kind of "meh", but really rewards playing around the effect. A party dedicated to making the spell shine could REALLY pump out some damage... but then, the spell is making EVERYONE in the party feel awesome, so it feels less like you are carrying every fight, more like everyone is just better, which... for this particular BARD, is awesome. You might need to add some reminder text to let players know that multiple CME's that overlap don't stack, so you only ever benefit from one, but I still like this change.
You can dip 5 levels in warlock and get pact of the weapon and so Thirsting Blade, and Eldritch Smite, so you get one extra attack and plus 1d8* the level of the spell. And I got the fey patron because misty step and temp hp or taunt
You should definitely revisit this build but with a warlock dip, combining 2 weapon fighting with Eldritch blasts. Basically you just sacrifice 1 weapon attack for 2,3 or in late game 4 Eldritch blasts. MOAR DAKA! lol. :edit open mouth insert foot lol you did the thing
The timing of this and Chris's videos are just "chef's kiss". I can see this getting nerfed with an errata. Personally, I'd change the damage to be d6, then scale it up by 1d6 every level. Wouldn't be the best 4th level spell, but the scaling would make up for it.
I have already homebrewed Conjure Minor Elementals for my campaign and I have also created a plethora of homebrewed backgrounds to accommodate the glaring holes WotC left behind.
I still stand by this looking great on paper, but not necessarily in play. A LOT more things can end Concentration than before. _Sleep_ comes to mind. Playing an Elf instead? _Tasha's Hideous Laughter_ now upcasts really well. Throwing up your hands and just going with Gnome? _Sleet Storm_ now ends your Concentration on a failed Dex save as an effect and not from damage alone. And that's not even taking into account what newer monsters are like. We know for sure that Vecna can use a Reaction for an effect like _Counterspell_ without actually casting _Counterspell._ The Elder Brain Dragon can flat out _end_ Concentration on another creature. Now, I'm _not_ saying, "don't do it." I'm just saying, you'll have to be far more careful with your casting of buff spells than before. If you can't get it as a Bonus Action, then you're probably better off casting something else. Like Colby said, I think this is best on an Eldritch Knight or a Moon Druid or a high-level Valor Bard who can follow it up with a Bonus Action attack. Monk/Druid comes to mind. I wonder how Martial Arts works with Beast attacks?
I wonder why Booming Blade wasn't added to the PHB with all of these pushing options ;) all of my build ideas included BB and Push weapons before I realized that this interaction isn't intented and my next character will only use the 2024 PHB (and maybe species from Mordenkainen Presents: Monters of the Multiverse for greater diversity).
@@SortKaffe if it isn’t revised in the new book, it can still be used. BB and GFB both fit in perfectly with the new True Strike to create an attack cantrip trifecta of options.
Every time you do a bard build I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for the fight club reference. EVERY TIME! As always great video Colby. I've always wanted to play a gun and sabre wielding john wick with a pet fighting by my side. Ranger just never worked. Looks like Valor bard with fighter dip is perfect with the two weapon fighting and the spell slots. I'll just cast summon fey instead of a broken spell though.
The level 14 valor bard feature is actually “cast a spell that has a casting time of one action” not when you cast a spell with an action. Which is important, considering you level 6 extra attack, stating “cantrip that has a casting time of an action.” So you should be able to attack, cantrip, maybe booming or green flame blade, then attack again with your bonus action. I might be wrong, but by my reading of the rules this is possible.
I think adding 1 more level of fighter would make it even more ridiculous cause of action surge. As i understand it, action surge doesnt let you use a magic action. But you are not using a magic action, you are using an attack action, and then replacing one attack with a cantrip. So double eldritch blast, and 4 attacks. Unless i am misunderstanding.
Loved the video, very powerful (broken) and informative.i really hope you make a new warlock tank with the new Fey warlock I keep thinking of how to build it and I'd love to see what you think would work best.
Hi Colby. I love your vids and I might pick up this build for an upcoming update to oneDnD at my table. I will say I’m pretty sure that college of valor bards can only substitute a cantrip if it is on the bard’s spell list (or expanded magical secrets spell list). This would still work for booming blades post level 10 but I don’t believe would include the multiclassed warlock’s Eldritch blast. I could be wrong but it’s something to think about.
just 30 seconds into the video and blasted away that "Zeitgeist" is a word that made it into the english language (I´m german). Looking forward to the upcoming 52 minutes I have left! :D
My version of this build would be to start pally rather than fighter. You lose out on a weapon fighting style and con saves but you keep your slot progression, which means you can upcast your CME higher and earlier. Plus with that first level in paladin, you’re going to get access to searing smite which has great upcast value and spells like divine favor. Also having bless on your bard feels really nice in a martial heavy party. This build will push you to go str based rather than dex but you can still use str with finess weapons.
Let me note up front, I am familiar with 5e but am not super deep on it, and my knowledge of version 5.24 is primarily through your videos (these, and other of yours that I have watched are awesome by the way!). I think that the scaling on the CME spell seems like it would be something that is corrected in a day-1 errata as it seems to scale way faster than any other spell (I would have expected that it maybe scales by 1d8 per spell slot above 4 at most, which is more in line with 5e damage scaling in general). What is unclear to me is why the CME would apply to the Eldritch Blast - the spell says that it adds the damage to "any attack you make" - while the Valor Bard Extra Attack allow does allow you to Cast a cantrip in place of one of your attacks, you are casting a spell and not making an attack and so Eldritch Blast would not benefit from the CME damage. Does that not mean that that the benefit would be limited to 3 attacks per round: 2x Shillelagh Club + CHA + CME + 1x Pact Weapon + CME? This may still be above baseline, but it seems like it would be significantly less than the calculations as you have presented them. Maybe I am reading the rules more in line with maybe how they were intended instead of how they are written, like I said I am fairly familiar with 5e, but am not super deep on all the rules, the errata, and the tweets from Jeremy Crawford.
I have a what-if scenario for you Colby: What would you do with this character for the last 3 levels? I'd likely go for 1 Level of all 3 classes you've used. The Fighter's "Action Surge" would feel insane with this build, having a patron (Maybe Genie?) would likely bump the damage yet another bit and the Bard for its 8th-level spell slot. What would the damage be then? 😱 Good! Blistering! Tiamat! Just the thought. 😱
First off, I would like to say thanks for all the amazing builds you post. I enjoy listening to them and the anticipation of waiting for the next build each week is great. A small thing... would at least 17 instead of going 2 warlock, would you have gotten more out of going 2 fighter and gaining action surge??? It's just a theory
Fun Fact: Bardic dice for damage on Valor bard can be used on a crit and get double the dice, which you could ensure if you hit someone with sleep. The incapacitated condition allows for auto-crits.
RAW you could be using two shortswords for vex on every hit and still nick with one of them. Nick is the only weapon mastery trait that lacks the wording "when attacking with this weapon", so you only need to have mastery in a nick weapon but it doesn't have to be equipped to use the benefit.
My fix for it will be twofold. This is a fourth level spell available to Druids and Wizards… most of which get a single attack. Making the damage once per turn lets those classes make the most of it while not making it out of control for classes with multiple attacks who can get it. In addition to that, either slowing the spell progression to scale only every two levels (similar to spirit shroud) or slowing the progression to 1d8 per level makes it so that it continues to be the best option for players with a single attack. Characters with two attacks gain the same damage benefit from Spirit Shroud and CME this way and so the choice becomes what additional effects would you like the spell to do? Once a character secures 3 or more attacks per turn, Spirit Shroud will be doing more damage. I’m hoping this fix will feel good at the table once I get my books and start playing.
my mental math has a slight error. the fact that the upcasting of the two spells would alternate in my fixes actually makes it so that the better damage spell actually depends on your max slot level (which I think is appropriate)
My take on the fix: You conjure spirits from the Elemental Planes that flit around you in a 15-foot Emanation for the duration. The Emanation is considered Difficult Terrain for your enemies. Until the spell ends, the spirits fight for you, and you can use your Bonus Action to make a melee magic attack against one creature in the Emanation. On a hit, you deal 2d8 damage that is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack). You can also make this attack using a Reaction when a creature you can see or hear ends its turn in the Emanation. The damage increases by 2d8 for each spell slot level above 4.
Shadowblade is a good way to keep extra damage up if you don't think the fight will last long enough to justify an action to drop conjure minor elementals
Colby, do you think Nick might open up some weapon wielder builds for class that don't have Extra Attack? Most of time in 2014 rules you would have to shove 5 levels of martial in almost every weapon wielder build because 2 attacks every turn is just that good, but now everyone can do that with a single level in Fighter, so instead of being a Ranger 5/Druid 5 you could be a Fighter 1/Druid 9 and go in melee without needing to be a Moon Druid or delaying your spell progression
I think these last few Gish video has proved to me that while Pact of the Blade is a nice to have, focusing your Strength or Dexterity is the way to go if youre looking to get the most bang for your buck. Spells are nice and keeping that DC is important, but most damage riders wont be doing that It's a little unfortunate Fighter 1 is stronger than it has ever been, but it is what it is. Can't change that without majorly changing how the system works, thats a new edition kind of change Good on you and treantmonk for planting your flag and not dedicating more time to Conjure Minor Elementals until it gets a balance patch I'm sure youre still playing with new PHB toys and while I look forward to those builds I'm also eagerly awaiting Bladesinger.24
Did you consider taking a second level of fighter at some point in the build? Would slow your spell level progression by 1, but action surge would let you get conjour elementals up round 1 and still make all your attacks if you aren't able to precast it. Plus two weapon fighting style for a little boost to off hand attacks. Not sure how the numbers would work out with the delayed spell level progression though... Keep up the great work, love your videos. ❤
I saw Treantmonks vid about this! With this build I would take 1 level fighter and 19 levels Wizard(Bladesinger), Magic Initiate shillelagh (origin feat), Two weapon fighting
The original idea behind "Conjure small Elementals", might have been to buff martials. Eldritch knights for example reach up to fourth level spells, and since they are a fighter subclass they would still get a lot more attacks than the average caster. This also applies to most martials, considering the extra attack most get and the new weapon masteries. This would also limit a casters strength since it would use their concentration, meaning that they would sacrifice some powerhouse spells like "Forcecage". (This is of course assuming that the caster uses the spell on a martial teammate that would usually benefit more out of the spell.) (This is reaching quite a bit, but as far as I can see it's the only way they could have allowed a spell this absurd to be released despite of playtesting.)
Any chance of an Eldritch Knight build? I'm loving the look of the changes and I know that big brain of yours can get way more out of the class than I can on my own.
It's pretty much a tastier elemental hunter's mark, or like if you got to continuously smite every attack off of a single bonus action casting. It makes ranger and paladin look even sillier
i'm trying my version of valor bard with human paladin lv 1, you get shillelagh through human magic initiate (or you could get it through backgrounds), then as a paladin you get access to nick and slow (club/scimitar), plate armor and smite, without losing spellcasting progression since you get it as paladin 1 now then start progressing similar to the video, but with an extra 1d4 from divine favor and access to smite as the bonus action instead, costing the constitution proficiency that i might get later through feats i'm also considering ditching eldritch blast, which would cost some damage, but it wouldn't trigger divine favor as some other cantrips would, and it opens up that spell sniper slot for something else, like getting that con proficiency or war caster or something else, i'm still cooking with it whiile looking for an actual table to play and get it out of paper
Another thing to consider is the danger of losing concentration. Yes I know the build has Con proficiency but even then it is incredibly difficult to maintain concentration if a Dragon hits you with 90 damage from their breath weapon. Which is what type of enemies you should be facing in tier 4. It’s definitely broken in a white room theory board. But I question how crazy it’ll actually end up being in actual play at higher levels where it has the most broken potential.
In terms of nerfing CME, I might keep the damage and scaling as written but limit it to 3 attacks per turn. That’s still really powerful but I think it keeps it in line with what the designers were thinking. You get 3 attacks with twf, three attacks with your basic scorching ray, with beasts, you’re looking at most 3 attacks with multi attack for Druids wildshape.
To be fair as a Dm you have many yools to target concentration. Considering there is a super saiyan running around the unspoken balance would be focused concentration checks.
Why did you go for Hafling for the build? Personly id look on to human due to the extra feat you get when you start. That way you can actually get the Magic initiate, no need to start a custom background and still get all the good stuff from the fighter.
I don't know a single table that's not allowing custom backgrounds. The 2024 backgrounds are so limiting to RP that they feel really bad; custom is just the best option imo.
I would argue that a good fix would be to prevent it from proccing with every Eldritch Blast hit, perhaps limiting it to just the first hit (or any one of the four). This change aligns better with the rules as intended, especially since it's not available to Warlocks. It would still be a really powerful spell and might need a bit more balancing, but that's a huge start
Wouldn't it have been stronger to get the last level in Bard rather than Warlock 2? +20 damage from agonising blast at best Vs 14d8? An elf using this with Elven Accuracy is even better, and that's terrifying
Ps: you'd still need warcaster to cast the shield spell. It doesn't have a material component, so you can't perform the somatic component for it while holding something (even a spellcasting focus)
@@lukorama10 true, but according to the rules now you should be able to stow one weapon as part of your final attack, and draw it again on your turn as part of your first one, so it shouldn’t too much of an issue.
Serious question from a silly place: Is an Invested Venomous Snake the best way to weaponise a Warlock bonus action now? I heard the Elden Ring intro last time and I have a question: if you made Messmer as a Warlock (Pact Pike, Fiend for survivability, Pact Flying Venomous Snake) - is that actually ridiculously solid or am I going a bit mad?
Guys I discovered a feat for 5e 2014 that I just didn't look into, it's the spell sniper it gives some buffs but the one that gave me the concept of a character is that it doubles the range of spell attacks, so multiclassing warlock/rogue assassin, with the agonizing blast invocation, eldrich spear invocation and voice of the chian master, pact of the chain and all the levels you want in warlock (I would go to rogue level 4 for the asi) you could stay outside the "render distance" of your enemy, seeing with your familiar eyes, having him near enough to the battlefield, this way your foes will not see you, you will see them so with the assassin feature you auto crit always, so at level 8 pretending that you have +5 in cha you would always deal 16 force damage and at level 9 you would deal 32 force damage, at level 15 you would deal 48 force damage (if you did not take 1 level extra for the feat in rogue at level 20 you would deal an average of 64 force damage), I don't know if the hexblade hex works at 600 or so ft but if it does by taking it and maddening hex you would add 5 psychic damage to your foe. WITHOUT EVER ROLLING FOR DEALING DAMAGE. Or if you don't want to multiclass you could do the same but only putting levels in warlock, in this case I would take the invocation shroud of shadow at 15 level so you don't have to be that far away Is this build decent? or is it a little underpowered, I mean yes you attack without risking getting attacked at all, but in the end you only deal 16 damage until level 9, and this is only if you managed to cap your Cha at 20, with only 1 asi EDIT: I'm dumb, by taking the custom lineage, with 15 base cha, you would put the +2 in that, taking the feat spell sniper so at level 4 in rogue you would cap you cha, or you just get 3 levels in rogue and you cap your cha at level 7, but it's still quite far for only dealing 16 damage average
@ 44:02 but I don't wanna be calm & level headed.....I wanna be outraged! I've gotta get my daily hit of internet outage somewhere, and since I'm only watching d&d vids & no political / culture war stuff, I'm starting to get some serious rage-withdrawal & am I'm getting the shakes real bad! Just help me out with a little somethin' somethin' so I can scream my rage into the void all night!
Errata! At 32:30 I start comparing CME to Spirit Guardians, but I meant Spirit Shroud, of course. Stupid Brain. Also! I'm anticipating people saying I should have grabbed Shillelagh (whether via magical secrets or, easier, the magic initiate Druid feat) to use a club instead of a short sword and then get Pact of the Blade from Warlock (or the Eldritch Adept feat) so we can be a Charisma SAD Bard. It’s not a bad idea - especially since the damage from Shillelagh is higher (1d8) and scales. The potential downfall here is threefold: 1 - since clubs have the slow mastery instead of the short sword’s vex, you’d have advantage less often and would thus hit less on average. In the end, using a shillelagh’d club would do more damage at low enemy AC’s and less at higher enemy AC’s, depending on your level etc. 2 - Shillelagh is a BA to cast and only lasts a minute, which could potentially slow down our damage (depending on our level and what other self-buff spell we might be casting). 3 - You'd need that Warlock investment early, which would delay our early game even further than I already was via the Fighter dip (plus, I really like having a Familiar and Booming Blade/GFB, though I suppose we could've picked up the new True Strike instead which does *almost* as much damage, or, sure, gone Human to get two Origin Feats...). I think I probably stick with the route I went, personally, but it’s a valid option that I wish I would’ve thought to discuss before I recorded the video!
That would be a great idea ;)
@DnDDeepDive if you want to be SAD with a Shortsword (Vex) and Scimitar (Nick), you could make the Shortsword your pact blade and use True Strike for your single Scimitar Nick attack.
Mr Tree literally just released a video with a valour bard conjure minor elementals build haha
As an FYI, When talking about Shroud’s scaling, you keep saying spirit guardians.
@@Domkhxiii He did! (see my comment on his vid ;) )
Treantmonk: "don't do this"
Colby: *immediately does this*
😂🤣 - Chris is my Dad. Always telling me to eat my vegetables (build so I can make my saving throws) and I just keep being that willful teen.
@DnDDeepDive you don't need to make your saving throws if there's nothing alive to force a saving throw.
@@malachilynch2979this guy gets it
As an adult i can tell ya don't need to eat vegetables to get big, strong n healthy
@malachilynch2979 until someone casts dominate person on you and tpks with your all offensive no defense character lol
good old Colby....3 builds, 3 GISHES XD never change man
No spells next week. I promise! ;)
Man gishes are the BEST in fantasy games
@@DnDDeepDive GISH for life!
I'm kindda new to this channel what's a Gishe?
@@crimsonangel4573I believe it's a sword and spells character.
It's someone who can do magic and melee I believe, but that may be wrong.
32:30 Colby says Spirit Guardians a lot here but is clearly intending to say Spirit Shroud
Truth! Brain hurt! Made note of this in the pinned comment. Thanks for the catch :)
Just was watching treeant monks vid and saw your comments about same video topic when it was unlisted and was refreshing your channel hoping for this!
Same
same
Same
I'd really like to see your take on the new Eldritch Knight next! Hopefully a great weapon, polearm, or even weapon and shield style character.
Pushing and cleaving enemies around, combining blade cantrips with your masteries, pushing enemies into web since you get wide open spell options now for control or utility.
I'm excited to see it!
I also want to see an eldritch knight. Wonder if its good now
@@forestcaine I think it's great! Cantrip extra attack and added spell versatility with each access to magic initiate or species based spells will actually make you feel pretty powerful. Also many of the cantrips were buffed, like true strike, blade ward, thaumaturgy, etc.
But need to beware of the legendary dragon-touched focus magic item which could upcast any spell to lv 9 one per day then...
Full Lv 20 EK concentrating on a Lv 9 upcasted CME...
Totally agree! It'd be super nice to briefly cover the best gish cantrips from only the 5.24 spell list too. (ie if there's no Booming Blade etc available)
Shout out to Colby for having the most wholesome intro on the internet. Warm and cozy vibes every single time.
Also a deeply wholesome outro
It's like finding a safe harbour of absolute calm in the insane storm that is the rest of the internet!
DM: "This NPC has now 600 hp."
Bard: "Still, I can 1 shot him."
And continue doing the same every round to the rest of the enemies on the battlefield
@@DnDDeepDive I've got another and even better idea:
DM: "Let me see if you can stay a murder hobo in this campaign, bard. There are 100 NPCs in this town, and all of them have around 500 HP *(evil laugh)*"
Bard: "*(smirk)* Hold my beer, DM. I can still do it!"
This shows how insane that build is.
"You get a one shot kill! And you get a one shot kill! EVERYONE gets a one shot kill!"
Edit: I think we'll have to name this bard 'Oprah One-Shot'!
@@Wintermute909 School of Winfrey😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Love that Mirror Image changed to exactly how I (and likely many people) have been running it already! Beautiful stuff!
“When our friends succeed, we succeed…dude” best Colby quote imo. 😂
Most DMs: "We need to homebrew and Errata this immediately!"
My DM: "You enter the chamber, Saruman has already formed his Simulacrum, and they both cast Conjure minor elementals"
The martial bard took over bg3 now dnd lol
Sword bard after a two level paladin dip were very effective sword and board damage dealers.
Dual wielder lets them do three smites with the shield as an improvised off hand attack.
Shield master adds evasion.
I like the fix by Chris @TreantmonksTemple: Upcasting is only 1d8 every other level like Spirit Shroud to create an interesting choice between the two. CME would still deal 1d8 more damage than Spirit Shroud if both were cast using a spell slot of level 4, 6, or 8. As a Bladesinger, I would probably prepare both and adapt to the circumstances.
The big problem in that scenario though is that it takes an action to cast rather than Spirit Shroud's BA... depending on the fight, a little more damage per hit might not be worth using your full action to cast. Of course, you could always cast round 1, BA Bladesong, then start attacking round 2. Just feels bad to waste a whole round buffing, I guess.
@@DnDDeepDive If you're doing a dungeon crawl, going room to room, though, there is no question that you cast this and then do as many rooms as you can.
disclaimer: I'm not coming from a optimizer place, but seeking balance instead. So less numbers, more horizontality.
And then, I came with a different fix for CME. I wasn't a fan of Treantmok's approach mostly because it doesn't tackle the biggest mistake on CME's development imo: the fact that its synergy resides in something kinda alien to their OG classes (Wizard and Druid): multiattack.
So here is the fix i posted in some of Treantmonk's comments, and now for you guys to think about. The header is the same, action, self, components, concentration up to 10 min:
***
You conjure spirits from the Elemental Planes that flit around you in a 15-foot Emanation for the duration. The Emanation is considered Difficult Terrain for your enemies.
Until the spell ends, you can use your Bonus Action to make a melee magic attack against one creature in the Emanation. On a hit, you deal 2d8 damage that is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack). You can also make this attack using a Reaction when a creature you can see or hear ends its turn in the Emanation.
The damage increases by 2d8 for each spell slot level above 4.
***
So the gist here is to use action economy as the balance, and somewhat reinforce that the spell effect is to conjure extraplanar forces that deal damage, but they need your focus (actions) to manifest. While at the same time mechanically untying them to multiattack to avoid encouraging multiclass shenanigans while they are still fun and viable, should not ignore the OG flavor of things imo
Thanks for everyone who participates in these discussions, and special thanks to DnDDeepDive and Treantmonk for bringing us these content in the first place!
@@Itomonthe problem with that approach is you are still just probably better off using scorching ray or something right? More chances to crit similar damage and it's more front loaded.
Combats typically last 3 rounds, this spell deals a lot of damage twice. Compare that to the warlock from last week doing its damage for 3 rounds the numbers are similar.
@@BinxyBrown But if you compare it with a spell that is instant, then surely CME should have a caveat? If the combat takes longer, then CME is better (also, CME can still crit)
A big aspect that makes this so powerful is that you can split up damage a LOT with so many attacks. It’s not the old paladin super nova that had 2 or 3 huge attacks at higher levels. It eventually has up to 7 attacks that are all significant, so you can jump into the middle of the fray and destroy a bunch of small or even medium enemies or you can get to the red dragon and just kill them
They nerfed the Paladin nova and created builds more powerful than that. Paladins got the short end of the stick
Can't wait to see Fiend Warlock or WorldTree Barbarian build from you.
I cant wait till Arch Fey lock that will be my first
@@druxusthemage9806 Made a bladelock build for it the other day and realized that Warlock is now a better Fighter than Fighter.
3 attacks at level 12
Spirit shroud for damage
Utility spells
AoE damage
Free Teleports that do damage
Proficiency with all melee weapons
Free Mage Armor for good AC
Eldritch Smite and Life Drinker
I wanna see an optimized NON BLADE warlock…he must forget the Hexblade haha
Just sooooo many different builds for this crazy spell. I saw straight wizard build, cast CME 9th level and then started casting Scorching Ray at 8th, 7th, 6th...etc. They also used Spell Sniper....
You and Chris should do a special episode where you compare and contrast your approaches to this week's builds!
PS: bonus if you collabrate on an elf + Elven Accuracy + Foresight endgame build.
PPS: finishing to level 20 with this build lets you get to 4 Warlock and finish with 16 bard for TWO epic boon feats
Managing to get two epic boon feats at 19 and 20 is big brain multi-classing
last week i thought about asking for a valor bard build. Now it is here ! Thank you !
:)
I love your build videos, you really deep dive, not talk about a thing for a long time but give detailed explanation for a thing. Properly deep dive.
I highly recommend a Scimitar + Club combination and add Shilleghla to the Build. Also War Caster Feat is sort of Must Have. If a groupmember can give you an opportnity attack you can cast another EB + CME on that round. At level 17 you can have 3 Melee Attacks + 8! Eldritch Blasts.The Average dmg to AC10 then is 511 dmg. To AC15 it's 460 dmg. To AC18 it's 383 dmg. To AC20 it's 332 and to AC25 it still is 203 dmg. If you want to burst the dmg even more you can use the Valor Bards offense combat inspirations to add 6d12 on top of all that. All at lv17 with the dmg calc in the description. At lv20 you could go nuts and take Thirsting Blade invocation to add another Attack with your Pact Weapon to reach a max burst dmg of 7d6 + 96d8 + 8d10 + 6d12 + 62 😀
Thirsting blade doesn't stack.
Love your work! :-)
Here is something to potentially look into :-)
Of all things, a Champion Fighter can do crazy damage with Fighting Styles and Masteries… and at later levels has permanent advantage on every attack
This is by throwing as many Handaxes (Vex) as possible, and one Light Hammer (Nick). BUT only holding one weapon at a time with nothing in the other hand and so is able to benefit from:
Dueling (+2 damage, per attack)
Thrown Weapon Fighting (+2 damage, per attack)
Two-Weapon Fighting (+ability mod, per turn)
Species: Bugbear, Background Feat: Alert
17 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 8 Cha
Fighter 1
Handaxe:3d6+5 BA:Handaxe:3d6+2
Burst Damage: 21
DPR/4 rounds: 13
Fighter 5
Handaxe:3d6+6 (2)Handaxe:3d6+6 (3)Handaxe:3d6+6 (4)Handaxe:3d6+6 BA:Handaxe:3d6+2 Light_Hammer:1d4+2d6+2
Burst: 82
DPR/4: 38
Fighter 11
Handaxe:3d6+9 (2)Handaxe:3d6+9 (3)Handaxe:3d6+9 (4)Handaxe:3d6+9 (5)Handaxe:3d6+9 (6)Handaxe:3d6+9 BA:Handaxe:3d6+4 Light_Hammer:1d4+2d6+9
Burst: 142
DPR/4: 74
This is using average enemy AC per Lv/CR to work out chance to hit and also adding crit damage x crit chance
BTW, I spent a long time making an excel document which calculates the Vex chances to hit, the different optimal attack patterns based on level and then making other versions to compare adding in options like Hunter’s Mark etc. If you want to check my work: 1drv.ms/x/s!AhXS148YnKvBgepdjm0XqOawVhvtQw?e=VPJnqd
Commenting to support the channel.
Would love to see you take a look at the new Archfey Warlock. I'm not sure if it's up there in terms of power level, but I love the flavor of a trickster constantly flitting around just out of reach. Could be a fun way to play a support character that can keep themselves out of harm's way.
One idea for a nerf that still differentiates CME from Spirit Shroud would be to lean into it's slightly longer range and use spirit shroud scaling, but expand the range to 30 or 60 feet. There are a lot of ways to combine spell casting and melee but not much in the way of improving ranged combat. There could be an interesting niche for CME in supporting a "spellbow" archetype.
The notification-size thumbnail made it look like Colby was shirtless, and I didn't realize I could click faster than I already do.
@@abydosianchulac2 😂
@@DnDDeepDive I mean, zero objectification, I appreciate you for you, and what you do, _and_ your PRs
As a Hamilton nerd and DnD dad, I really felt that outro. I also can’t listen to Phillip’s death without ugly crying.
Just playtested the elements monk. Wow! Can’t wait for what you have for the new monks! ❤
I got an idea. Make a "skill monkey" bard/rogue. I would love to see how you would optimize that. Thanks for your hard work!
Psi powered knack is a really big part of my current skill monkey
@colby You can get all proficiencies at lvl 2 now: skilled can be taken repeatedly. So: take human for two origin feats and 2lvl warlock for 3 invocations which each can be an origin feat aswell. That brings us to: 5*3 invocations from skilled +2 from our background + 2 from warlock. So you would have in theory 19 proficiencies but as there are one 18 you had one left over. Afterwards grab whatever you want, soulknife would be an awesome choice.
@@PinkMuffin2104 The Warlock invocation states that you have to choose a different feat every time you take it. So while you can take skilled multiple times, you can only take it through the invocation once.
I play one of those in 1 of my campaigns. A halfling college of swords bard/swashbuckler rogue. Its a blast.
In my opinion, there are two ways that we can go when reworking CME--
1. Keep the 2d8 extra damage, but bump it up only every other spell level (6th and 8th).
2. Keep the 2d8 per level scaling, but make the extra damage apply only to one successful attack per round.
I don't know if that's still too OP, but it's a lot less crazy than the Conjure Minor Apocalypse we have now.
I think once per turn would be best. If it's meant for Druids and Wizards, they don't tend to get multi attack. Wildshaped druids and bladesingers do, but I think once per turn would work well.
Great Final Thoughts - skip to that if you don't normally. I too want to try this build but without CME and you've convinced me it will be ok. I can't see any reasonable table allowing it to stay in its current form, so I appreciate you planning to skip it going forward. Any build that has it heavily included will be fairly invalidated at the average table.
Wow, 180 Builds! I'm very proud of this community of people and of you Colby! Stay awesome
To be clear in regards to the fly by familiar...not sure it works in 2024
Ready Action
_First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your Speed in response to it_
If the familiar readies an action, they can either take the action or move....not both. Had a long conversation with my DM, who hates familiars, about it.
I like this concept. It's very entertaining. It's like conjuring your own light show to accompany your flourishing fighting style. I don't think they will change Conjure Minor Elementals. This is why. 1st of all, it's a 4th level spell. This comes online, at the earliest, at lvl 7. 8 if you make this build. 2d8 isn't a lot of damage. It's, on average, 8 additional damage. Next, you have to get this online. This takes an entire round or more to get it online. Lastly, you require concentration be maintained and, considering the vast number of ways to incapacitate a player, it's easy to break this without needing a concentration check. Overall, this looks very cool, very fun, loads of great potential, and gives you a lot of flexibility, but it's not overpowering at all. I think Conjure Minor elementals has a lot of hype, but like Spirit Guardians, rarely will deliver it's potential. I do love this concept! I would say that this concept could be really fun with a lot of possible spell combinations.
MY VALOR BARD IS FINALLY GETTING THE LOVE THEY DESERVE. LONG LIVE MY SWORD AND SONG BOI.
Dude! Great build and great song choice at the end!
My homebrew idea for CME? Utilize the Emanation.
You and allied creatures within the Emanation deal an additional 2d8 damage on the first attack they make each of their turns. Heighten +1d8 per spell slot level above (is it 4th? I can't remember).
The spell still has the potential to do a lot of damage, but is party/build dependent, and really helps out those characters with summons up in melee with you (Beastmaster Ranger, spellcasters with Summons, any melee combatant), so on the surface it's kind of "meh", but really rewards playing around the effect. A party dedicated to making the spell shine could REALLY pump out some damage... but then, the spell is making EVERYONE in the party feel awesome, so it feels less like you are carrying every fight, more like everyone is just better, which... for this particular BARD, is awesome. You might need to add some reminder text to let players know that multiple CME's that overlap don't stack, so you only ever benefit from one, but I still like this change.
Been waiting for Bladesinger 4.0, but this is definitely close enough. Appreciate the videos as always.
Also, I’m prayin for a Ranger build if it’s in the cards, but I’ve loved the content otherwise.
Thanks again for putting these on spotify
You can dip 5 levels in warlock and get pact of the weapon and so Thirsting Blade, and Eldritch Smite, so you get one extra attack and plus 1d8* the level of the spell. And I got the fey patron because misty step and temp hp or taunt
The best thing about the new phb is the new builds Colby puts out :). Best wishes and good vibes Colby
You have a very chill almost soporific (in a good way!!l) aura, I keep falling asleep and waking up in the middle of a random video of yours 😂❤
You should definitely revisit this build but with a warlock dip, combining 2 weapon fighting with Eldritch blasts. Basically you just sacrifice 1 weapon attack for 2,3 or in late game 4 Eldritch blasts. MOAR DAKA! lol. :edit open mouth insert foot lol you did the thing
Keep watching! ;)
Each one of your videos counts as a giant handful of bardic inspiration in my book
The timing of this and Chris's videos are just "chef's kiss". I can see this getting nerfed with an errata. Personally, I'd change the damage to be d6, then scale it up by 1d6 every level. Wouldn't be the best 4th level spell, but the scaling would make up for it.
Colby, you da Man! I am going in cold with #180 the Valor BARD not the other choice we made. PJ of the GreenRAY!!!🎉🎉🎉😊
Having a bad week. I needed that Bardic Inspiration
I have already homebrewed Conjure Minor Elementals for my campaign and I have also created a plethora of homebrewed backgrounds to accommodate the glaring holes WotC left behind.
Thanks to you and Chris for pointing this out.
I was wondering when these would start coming out en masse. Just watched Treantmonk's version so looking forward to Colby's spin :)
I still stand by this looking great on paper, but not necessarily in play. A LOT more things can end Concentration than before. _Sleep_ comes to mind. Playing an Elf instead? _Tasha's Hideous Laughter_ now upcasts really well. Throwing up your hands and just going with Gnome? _Sleet Storm_ now ends your Concentration on a failed Dex save as an effect and not from damage alone. And that's not even taking into account what newer monsters are like. We know for sure that Vecna can use a Reaction for an effect like _Counterspell_ without actually casting _Counterspell._ The Elder Brain Dragon can flat out _end_ Concentration on another creature.
Now, I'm _not_ saying, "don't do it." I'm just saying, you'll have to be far more careful with your casting of buff spells than before. If you can't get it as a Bonus Action, then you're probably better off casting something else. Like Colby said, I think this is best on an Eldritch Knight or a Moon Druid or a high-level Valor Bard who can follow it up with a Bonus Action attack. Monk/Druid comes to mind. I wonder how Martial Arts works with Beast attacks?
The New Valor Bard! D&D Ep. #180
Level 01 (see above) [fighter 1, background race & fighting-style]
Level 02 (see above) [bard 1]
Level 03 (@15:11) [bard 2 & expertise]
Level 04 (@15:54) [bard 3 & subclass]
Level 05 (@18:49) [bard 4 & feat]
Level 06 (@19:33) [bard 5]
Level 07 (see above) [bard 6]
Level 08 (@24:49) [bard 7]
Level 09 (@26:08) [bard 8 & feat]
Level 10 (see above) [bard 9 & expertise]
Level 11 (@30:10) [bard 10 & magical secrets]
Level 12 (@34:58) [bard 11]
Level 13 (@36:12) [bard 12 & feat]
Level 14 (see above) [bard 13]
Level 15 (@38:56) [bard 14]
Level 16 (@39:24) [warlock 1 & eldritch invocation]
Level 17 (@41:27) [warlock 2 & eldritch invocations]
Im planning on playing a pal 1, Valor bard x GWM, booming blade with a pike. Should be fun.
I wonder why Booming Blade wasn't added to the PHB with all of these pushing options ;) all of my build ideas included BB and Push weapons before I realized that this interaction isn't intented and my next character will only use the 2024 PHB (and maybe species from Mordenkainen Presents: Monters of the Multiverse for greater diversity).
@@SortKaffe if it isn’t revised in the new book, it can still be used. BB and GFB both fit in perfectly with the new True Strike to create an attack cantrip trifecta of options.
Every time you do a bard build I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for the fight club reference. EVERY TIME! As always great video Colby. I've always wanted to play a gun and sabre wielding john wick with a pet fighting by my side. Ranger just never worked. Looks like Valor bard with fighter dip is perfect with the two weapon fighting and the spell slots. I'll just cast summon fey instead of a broken spell though.
The level 14 valor bard feature is actually “cast a spell that has a casting time of one action” not when you cast a spell with an action. Which is important, considering you level 6 extra attack, stating “cantrip that has a casting time of an action.” So you should be able to attack, cantrip, maybe booming or green flame blade, then attack again with your bonus action. I might be wrong, but by my reading of the rules this is possible.
(Credit to Bluminek for pointing this out)
I think adding 1 more level of fighter would make it even more ridiculous cause of action surge. As i understand it, action surge doesnt let you use a magic action. But you are not using a magic action, you are using an attack action, and then replacing one attack with a cantrip. So double eldritch blast, and 4 attacks.
Unless i am misunderstanding.
As far as I've read, you are correct.
Loved the video, very powerful (broken) and informative.i really hope you make a new warlock tank with the new Fey warlock I keep thinking of how to build it and I'd love to see what you think would work best.
Yay! Been refreshing for this, this morning!
Hi Colby. I love your vids and I might pick up this build for an upcoming update to oneDnD at my table. I will say I’m pretty sure that college of valor bards can only substitute a cantrip if it is on the bard’s spell list (or expanded magical secrets spell list). This would still work for booming blades post level 10 but I don’t believe would include the multiclassed warlock’s Eldritch blast. I could be wrong but it’s something to think about.
just 30 seconds into the video and blasted away that "Zeitgeist" is a word that made it into the english language (I´m german). Looking forward to the upcoming 52 minutes I have left! :D
My version of this build would be to start pally rather than fighter. You lose out on a weapon fighting style and con saves but you keep your slot progression, which means you can upcast your CME higher and earlier.
Plus with that first level in paladin, you’re going to get access to searing smite which has great upcast value and spells like divine favor. Also having bless on your bard feels really nice in a martial heavy party.
This build will push you to go str based rather than dex but you can still use str with finess weapons.
Would love to see a Goliath War Cleric with the new rules when you get a chance! Thanks for the amazing content brother ❤
yeah baby! pumped for this one! thanks Colby!
... and again he delivers! Great build my man! Maybe too good!
Let me note up front, I am familiar with 5e but am not super deep on it, and my knowledge of version 5.24 is primarily through your videos (these, and other of yours that I have watched are awesome by the way!). I think that the scaling on the CME spell seems like it would be something that is corrected in a day-1 errata as it seems to scale way faster than any other spell (I would have expected that it maybe scales by 1d8 per spell slot above 4 at most, which is more in line with 5e damage scaling in general). What is unclear to me is why the CME would apply to the Eldritch Blast - the spell says that it adds the damage to "any attack you make" - while the Valor Bard Extra Attack allow does allow you to Cast a cantrip in place of one of your attacks, you are casting a spell and not making an attack and so Eldritch Blast would not benefit from the CME damage. Does that not mean that that the benefit would be limited to 3 attacks per round: 2x Shillelagh Club + CHA + CME + 1x Pact Weapon + CME? This may still be above baseline, but it seems like it would be significantly less than the calculations as you have presented them. Maybe I am reading the rules more in line with maybe how they were intended instead of how they are written, like I said I am fairly familiar with 5e, but am not super deep on all the rules, the errata, and the tweets from Jeremy Crawford.
Spell attacks are attacks, no reason EB shouldn't work here.
I have a what-if scenario for you Colby: What would you do with this character for the last 3 levels?
I'd likely go for 1 Level of all 3 classes you've used. The Fighter's "Action Surge" would feel insane with this build, having a patron (Maybe Genie?) would likely bump the damage yet another bit and the Bard for its 8th-level spell slot.
What would the damage be then? 😱 Good! Blistering! Tiamat! Just the thought. 😱
First off, I would like to say thanks for all the amazing builds you post.
I enjoy listening to them and the anticipation of waiting for the next build each week is great.
A small thing... would at least 17 instead of going 2 warlock, would you have gotten more out of going 2 fighter and gaining action surge??? It's just a theory
Fun Fact: Bardic dice for damage on Valor bard can be used on a crit and get double the dice, which you could ensure if you hit someone with sleep. The incapacitated condition allows for auto-crits.
RAW you could be using two shortswords for vex on every hit and still nick with one of them. Nick is the only weapon mastery trait that lacks the wording "when attacking with this weapon", so you only need to have mastery in a nick weapon but it doesn't have to be equipped to use the benefit.
My fix for it will be twofold. This is a fourth level spell available to Druids and Wizards… most of which get a single attack. Making the damage once per turn lets those classes make the most of it while not making it out of control for classes with multiple attacks who can get it. In addition to that, either slowing the spell progression to scale only every two levels (similar to spirit shroud) or slowing the progression to 1d8 per level makes it so that it continues to be the best option for players with a single attack. Characters with two attacks gain the same damage benefit from Spirit Shroud and CME this way and so the choice becomes what additional effects would you like the spell to do? Once a character secures 3 or more attacks per turn, Spirit Shroud will be doing more damage. I’m hoping this fix will feel good at the table once I get my books and start playing.
my mental math has a slight error. the fact that the upcasting of the two spells would alternate in my fixes actually makes it so that the better damage spell actually depends on your max slot level (which I think is appropriate)
My take on the fix:
You conjure spirits from the Elemental Planes that flit around you in a 15-foot Emanation for the duration. The Emanation is considered Difficult Terrain for your enemies.
Until the spell ends, the spirits fight for you, and you can use your Bonus Action to make a melee magic attack against one creature in the Emanation. On a hit, you deal 2d8 damage that is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack). You can also make this attack using a Reaction when a creature you can see or hear ends its turn in the Emanation.
The damage increases by 2d8 for each spell slot level above 4.
Shadowblade is a good way to keep extra damage up if you don't think the fight will last long enough to justify an action to drop conjure minor elementals
Colby, do you think Nick might open up some weapon wielder builds for class that don't have Extra Attack? Most of time in 2014 rules you would have to shove 5 levels of martial in almost every weapon wielder build because 2 attacks every turn is just that good, but now everyone can do that with a single level in Fighter, so instead of being a Ranger 5/Druid 5 you could be a Fighter 1/Druid 9 and go in melee without needing to be a Moon Druid or delaying your spell progression
When I first heard the change to Cloud of Daggers, I did indeed think of you Colby!
I think these last few Gish video has proved to me that while Pact of the Blade is a nice to have, focusing your Strength or Dexterity is the way to go if youre looking to get the most bang for your buck. Spells are nice and keeping that DC is important, but most damage riders wont be doing that
It's a little unfortunate Fighter 1 is stronger than it has ever been, but it is what it is. Can't change that without majorly changing how the system works, thats a new edition kind of change
Good on you and treantmonk for planting your flag and not dedicating more time to Conjure Minor Elementals until it gets a balance patch
I'm sure youre still playing with new PHB toys and while I look forward to those builds I'm also eagerly awaiting Bladesinger.24
Did you consider taking a second level of fighter at some point in the build? Would slow your spell level progression by 1, but action surge would let you get conjour elementals up round 1 and still make all your attacks if you aren't able to precast it. Plus two weapon fighting style for a little boost to off hand attacks. Not sure how the numbers would work out with the delayed spell level progression though...
Keep up the great work, love your videos. ❤
I saw Treantmonks vid about this! With this build I would take 1 level fighter and 19 levels Wizard(Bladesinger), Magic Initiate shillelagh (origin feat), Two weapon fighting
The original idea behind "Conjure small Elementals", might have been to buff martials. Eldritch knights for example reach up to fourth level spells, and since they are a fighter subclass they would still get a lot more attacks than the average caster. This also applies to most martials, considering the extra attack most get and the new weapon masteries. This would also limit a casters strength since it would use their concentration, meaning that they would sacrifice some powerhouse spells like "Forcecage". (This is of course assuming that the caster uses the spell on a martial teammate that would usually benefit more out of the spell.)
(This is reaching quite a bit, but as far as I can see it's the only way they could have allowed a spell this absurd to be released despite of playtesting.)
Any chance of an Eldritch Knight build? I'm loving the look of the changes and I know that big brain of yours can get way more out of the class than I can on my own.
It's pretty much a tastier elemental hunter's mark, or like if you got to continuously smite every attack off of a single bonus action casting. It makes ranger and paladin look even sillier
"Your Hunters Mark now deals 1d10 damage" 😂
Its clearly been overlooked for balance and is likely to be either banned or nerfed at 90% of tables if it isn’t errata’d in the first week.
Commenting because I watched the whole video and enjoyed Colby's outtakes (no spoilers) :)
i'm trying my version of valor bard with human paladin lv 1, you get shillelagh through human magic initiate (or you could get it through backgrounds), then as a paladin you get access to nick and slow (club/scimitar), plate armor and smite, without losing spellcasting progression since you get it as paladin 1 now
then start progressing similar to the video, but with an extra 1d4 from divine favor and access to smite as the bonus action instead, costing the constitution proficiency that i might get later through feats
i'm also considering ditching eldritch blast, which would cost some damage, but it wouldn't trigger divine favor as some other cantrips would, and it opens up that spell sniper slot for something else, like getting that con proficiency or war caster or something else, i'm still cooking with it whiile looking for an actual table to play and get it out of paper
Yowza, that's a fun build. Hate to say it but yeah, CME seems like an oversight in this new edition.
Another thing to consider is the danger of losing concentration. Yes I know the build has Con proficiency but even then it is incredibly difficult to maintain concentration if a Dragon hits you with 90 damage from their breath weapon. Which is what type of enemies you should be facing in tier 4.
It’s definitely broken in a white room theory board. But I question how crazy it’ll actually end up being in actual play at higher levels where it has the most broken potential.
In terms of nerfing CME, I might keep the damage and scaling as written but limit it to 3 attacks per turn. That’s still really powerful but I think it keeps it in line with what the designers were thinking. You get 3 attacks with twf, three attacks with your basic scorching ray, with beasts, you’re looking at most 3 attacks with multi attack for Druids wildshape.
To be fair as a Dm you have many yools to target concentration. Considering there is a super saiyan running around the unspoken balance would be focused concentration checks.
Why did you go for Hafling for the build? Personly id look on to human due to the extra feat you get when you start. That way you can actually get the Magic initiate, no need to start a custom background and still get all the good stuff from the fighter.
3 gishes already…I love it. Hoping we can see the Sorlock Cheese Grater build updated to the new rules…or any Sorlock build soon!
I don't know a single table that's not allowing custom backgrounds. The 2024 backgrounds are so limiting to RP that they feel really bad; custom is just the best option imo.
I would argue that a good fix would be to prevent it from proccing with every Eldritch Blast hit, perhaps limiting it to just the first hit (or any one of the four). This change aligns better with the rules as intended, especially since it's not available to Warlocks. It would still be a really powerful spell and might need a bit more balancing, but that's a huge start
Wouldn't it have been stronger to get the last level in Bard rather than Warlock 2? +20 damage from agonising blast at best Vs 14d8? An elf using this with Elven Accuracy is even better, and that's terrifying
I know you already did an Assassin Rogue build, but is there any chance of doing an 2024 Arcane Trickster Rogue build?
Hey Colby! Nice video my king. What about a video in the future trying to extract the max damage from the new musket and pistol?
Ps: you'd still need warcaster to cast the shield spell.
It doesn't have a material component, so you can't perform the somatic component for it while holding something (even a spellcasting focus)
@@lukorama10 true, but according to the rules now you should be able to stow one weapon as part of your final attack, and draw it again on your turn as part of your first one, so it shouldn’t too much of an issue.
Serious question from a silly place: Is an Invested Venomous Snake the best way to weaponise a Warlock bonus action now?
I heard the Elden Ring intro last time and I have a question: if you made Messmer as a Warlock (Pact Pike, Fiend for survivability, Pact Flying Venomous Snake) - is that actually ridiculously solid or am I going a bit mad?
No, I don't think it is :).
Ha ha, if I had played Elden Ring I might be able to comment! (My editor and friend, Dallin, is a big fan :) )
@@DnDDeepDiveAh, this makes sense. Well I can keep my dumb cosplay build anyway!
A 2nd level of fighter would make for some insane burst, you could turn that 300 damage into probably 500 or more on your biggest rounds
Wizards really gave some love go gish characters, and I, for the first time ever, am excited to play an eldritch knight.
Guys I discovered a feat for 5e 2014 that I just didn't look into, it's the spell sniper it gives some buffs but the one that gave me the concept of a character is that it doubles the range of spell attacks, so multiclassing warlock/rogue assassin, with the agonizing blast invocation, eldrich spear invocation and voice of the chian master, pact of the chain and all the levels you want in warlock (I would go to rogue level 4 for the asi) you could stay outside the "render distance" of your enemy, seeing with your familiar eyes, having him near enough to the battlefield, this way your foes will not see you, you will see them so with the assassin feature you auto crit always, so at level 8 pretending that you have +5 in cha you would always deal 16 force damage and at level 9 you would deal 32 force damage, at level 15 you would deal 48 force damage (if you did not take 1 level extra for the feat in rogue at level 20 you would deal an average of 64 force damage), I don't know if the hexblade hex works at 600 or so ft but if it does by taking it and maddening hex you would add 5 psychic damage to your foe. WITHOUT EVER ROLLING FOR DEALING DAMAGE. Or if you don't want to multiclass you could do the same but only putting levels in warlock, in this case I would take the invocation shroud of shadow at 15 level so you don't have to be that far away
Is this build decent? or is it a little underpowered, I mean yes you attack without risking getting attacked at all, but in the end you only deal 16 damage until level 9, and this is only if you managed to cap your Cha at 20, with only 1 asi
EDIT: I'm dumb, by taking the custom lineage, with 15 base cha, you would put the +2 in that, taking the feat spell sniper so at level 4 in rogue you would cap you cha, or you just get 3 levels in rogue and you cap your cha at level 7, but it's still quite far for only dealing 16 damage average
14:19 Shadow Sorcerers are suddenly afraid of bards.😂
I would love to see a build around the new taking opportunity attacks against allies with warcaster. I’m sure you can think of an amazing dual build.
@ 44:02 but I don't wanna be calm & level headed.....I wanna be outraged!
I've gotta get my daily hit of internet outage somewhere, and since I'm only watching d&d vids & no political / culture war stuff, I'm starting to get some serious rage-withdrawal & am I'm getting the shakes real bad!
Just help me out with a little somethin' somethin' so I can scream my rage into the void all night!
Would have gone Forest Gnome--n Amazing saves from level 1....
From Wiz initiate: Shield for sure and also Acid splash and booming blade
My guess for that spill is there are going to be mini creatures that are resistant to multiple elemental attacks if not immune.