How do Vortex Generators Work?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Kyle is back with a beard and a new look to teach y'all about vortex generators! Used on EVOs, F1 cars and aircraft, VGs are an interesting tech, that a lot of people don't actually seem to properly understand....
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Since TH-cam is about to delete annotations, figured I'd post them here for everyone to see. Enjoy the video!
1:59 Whoops, this is meant to be an increase in pressure, not a decrease in pressure, my bad. Click on the card for more detail on the adverse pressure gradient.
What about the different types and shapes of rear diffusers?
Can vortex generators be used without a wing to reduce drag?
On the rear roof of the car or even the decklid?
@@ChargedTTq Vortex Generators are meant to keep the air that passes through your car attached to the boundary layer. Without them, at certain high speeds your air starts to disperse at the top of the car right before the roof slopes down. In a way they can reduce drag, but not a whole lot cause you still need other parts to help reduce drag.
Can u explain how vortices are created by vortex generator
TH-cam deleted my subscription for here too
Thanks for the lesson Ryan Gosling!
maddudenyc 🙌🙌
He looks like Daniel Radcliffe too!
maddudenyc You win! 🙌🏻 lol
I was thinking that the whole time
@@ThePivoteer101 he's a hybrid, shall we name him Ryan Radcliffe or Daniel Gosling?
as every genius engineer must, you draw terribly. awesome explanation
He was using his left hand at an awkward angle
As a fellow left hander, we draw shit on purpose. If all our powers were on display, you would burn us at the stake. 😜
My professor met those standards 😂
better to have the brains than drawing skills ask the docs ahahahahahahahahahah!!! you need a bucket to dribble all your shit in to
Some people are sometimes unreasonably difficult to please. You’re getting a Mercedes F1 engineer explain things to you FOR FREE and you still find things to complain about. Unbelievable
I really appreciate the credentials. It's nice to finally see someone on youtube who actually knows their $hit. +1
It was that the credibility was presented which was awesome
Amen.
Agreed
Simon WoodburyForget well he got scouted to work for mercedes in the aero division in formula 1 so i think he knows what he’s doing
@@dandingerat exactly, I really dont understand why people like this simon call him idiot
yeah it is not some aerospace level of explaination but 99,9% wouldnt get it really or wouldmt care enough to watch
mildly informative? bro free engineering classes 🙌 bless your soul haha. I was at ASU studying mechanical engineering joined, FSA too but couldn't wait to build my own stuff. Hence I'm attending a top notch fabricating school. your videos are immensely helpful. I hope to get my fabricating TH-cam page going soon 👍 video editing in process.
Subbed. I'm expecting good things from you, Andre. ;)
you got that channel?! id sub
;)
I've used this video as a supplemental explanation for my students in aerospace physics. Great job!
When you brought up the example of what they thought when designing the EVO´s aerodynamics I understood exactly how it would play out. It basically helps the wing to do it´s job more properly to push down the rear end for down force.
I will add to what Kyle is saying here - I drive a first generation Dodge Stealth with the so called "banana" spoiler which is at the base of the rear window. I tuft tested it and wound up with swirling blah airflow over the top of it. The tufts went in circles. After I added the vortex generators, the airflow is now nice and straight, top and bottom.
Damn I hate the room where you are speaking... that sound tho...
Drl2t if you don't like room echo then speed up the video, it speeds up the reverb decay.. I thought it would be engineers watching these 🤦♂️
@@bungcheese5901 hopefully no audio engineers and sound designers are watching this. That being said the video is very informative but the echo takes away from the quality
Yes.
I made a helpful comment to him on how to correct this problem.
As he is a top notch petsonality, I'm certain he will be on it immediately.
F**k the haters, keep the information flowing!!! (no pun intended)
This is the problem with people. Asking for his background or a source is not "hating" it's common sense.
the fact you said "(no pun intended)" suggests it was intended.
It was intended to not be intended. :D
Old vids are still informative. Wish I was an aerospace engineer majoring in race car dynamics. I'm just a home hack with no money trying to build race cars in my spare time.
Good for you! At least you're doing something. Something that will go fast and make happy noises.
I'm just a home hack with no money taking youtube engineering classes because I can barely afford to maintain the nearly stock vehicles I have lol
@@BrokeWrench I've not modified a vehicle in 16 years. I buy cars that are specced well enough that I can just drive them with no maintenance. Lol. Funnel all my money into my track car.
Plus I have a deal with my wife that ant of my sideline projects go into my race fund. I buy rusty old trailers and fix them and sell for profit and part out cars I get for cheap
aerodynamics tips for better fuel economy please. that would be a great topic that everyone could apply.
Ryan East anything that reduces drag?
@@WetOlde I too would like to know more about Vortex Generators for improve MPG on my daily driver.
Which one's work, and how do I acquire them.
Tommy T.
@@michelletessin6702 remove your rear wing, automatically improve your MPG!
@@lindltailor not in every case, in sedans rear wing can reduce drag
@@lindltailor dont have a rear wing on my ioniq
good video very informative, if i could make a suggestion it would to reduce the echo from the room when filming.
+Kc Ros Check my new vids, the problems have been solved! Thanks for watching!
When I was a Truck Driver we put Vortex Generator on the aft edge of the cabs and Trailers and the difference that made to stabilizing the vehicles was very impressive, and the unexpected fuel saving was a surprise but very welcomed.
Would it be too much to ask for you to make a video going over the different types of vortex generators like you did on the diffusers?
Why would somebody say you don’t know what your talking about? I have an aeronautical science degree and I enjoyed the refresher. Thank you! Great video!
Outstanding videos. I'm an aero mech engineer myself, and have a huge passion towards aerodynamics. These vids are like crack to me. Keep 'em coming!
Love what you do, man.
As a supportive comment, I'd like to mention there is a science or two on being able to hold the attention of the viewer/listener.
I'm talking about audio quality.
The ghastly echo in your voice recording which you created by relying on the built in mic of your camera...several feet away, can be easily solved by clipping a small mic to your lapel. You could also use a boom mic just out of your shot, but since you move around a lot, you"d need an operator. In other words, to hold the attention of even seriously interested, technically minded viewers, you need a mic close to your mouth. This will help you present your world class information in a world class manner.
Once again, love the great contribution to racing education that you make.
Left handed drawing is difficult. I'm left handed so don't sweat it. Clear concise explanation. I'm currently re-engineering my 2017 truck for better gas mileage through engine calibration and I now realize that aero needs to be part of the solution. Underbelly as well as the roof to the rear wing need smoothing in order to cut down the CD of the vehicle to make more progress. 20% savings isn't enough for me.
You have no idea how much your video helps me with my term paper.
Thanks,
Would love to see examples of the different types of vortex generators you mentioned in a future video. Thanks for these, nice work!
I really wish more people who think they are gear heads were informed like you are. I have watched videos of people going down the road with there coors beer in there buddys truck calling out every car with any aerodynamic mod on screaming that they are a racer. I would have not know what a Swan Neck Wing was if it was not for your video. You make perfect sense when you explain. keep up the good work
Kyle, very well explained. Could you perhaps make a video to explain this concept on another application, be the edge of a bicycle tire. Mavic came out with the CXR and CX01 blade that smoothens the surface area where the tire mounts the rim, yet insisted on using their tire which has tiny ridges to create a gradient vortex at the leading frontal edge of the tire. In trying to understand their design and science I came accros this video. I would be curious to better understand where tp make this vortex on the edgw to have the greatest effect
This video was quite helpful to me! It made it a lot easier for me to understand what vortex generators do and how they improve the airflow. Looking at this from an aviation perspective (specifically improving the stall characteristics of wings) this was an incredibly helpful video explaining how that works. I was previously confused as to how disturbing the airflow over the wing could work to improve the stall characteristics, but now it all makes sense! Thank you very much for your highly informative video!
You really do need A LOT more subscribers. So in-depth stuff compared to any car related videos on youtube.
Engineering Explained needs to collab with him
love your work. im a new subscriber and absolutely love what you do.
you remind me of Engineering Explained, but you go more in depth in real world workings rather than just concepts.
really good video. you did not have lots of materials in the video but still the explanations were very much clear enough.
This is a trip back for someone who just started watching your stuff recently. (I like the beard, fyi)
Best aero explanation out there! I'm looking to implement this tech for wing sails, endplated, Sail GP style. They use a double slot wing with a essentially a huge adjustable flap at huge angles. Ive never seen vortex gens on them. As you say, every little helps!
Thank you so much, that helped me a lot. I'll be having my exams on this coming week. I'm an aircraft maintenance engineer.
Thanks, Will look to your trainings before the aero
stages on the Jag.🏁
Best to you Scott Whitmire
There are many different kinds of vortex generators, such as simple plow, shielded plow, triangular plow, scoop, twist interchanger, ramp, tapered fin, dome, shielded sink, wedge, vane, wing, fences, leading edge fairing, dorsal fin, etc.
Best one yet. Love the beginning, chopping up the haters :). Great stuff Kyle. Keep on sharing the knowledge please. Regards JW
Sir, you just efficiently described the major parts of my aerodynamics course. Bravo
the best explanation with examples thus far.
That was explained exceptionally well. Thank you!
Engineering Explained is a discount this guy.
xXxMartin96xXx make EE and this guy work on an f1 car
EE is mech engineer. It's a different story. He makes his job really well.
Because people hate on your vid is because you are alot smarter than all the haters together.
Nice you put in the remark about , keeping the marketing department happy 'cos so many things in a mass manufactured item comes down to the engineers being hijacked to keep the business model happy .
I have an interest in aerodynamics, esp. for cars, so these videos are very crucial. Thank you for making these.
If you want to visualize the concepts turn on the pool filter in an in ground pool after dark, lights off, flashlight in hand, look at the shadows the water vortices make, note the compound impact the direction if flow as it navigates the low to high shape of grade of the pool, point the nozzles in various directions watch how the swirls react
Hi, I watched your entire video. I don't know anything about this science but found your explanation interesting. Good video.
what do you know about acoustics! You can use a vortex gen to disrupt the air stream to get you desired air flow. You can do the same thing to disrupt the echo in the room you are recording in to disrupt the sound stream and control the echo. The furniture, or most any object will become a vortex gen to disrupt and control the echo. Then we can hear your words clearly!
In simple terms; vortex gens are to suck the pressure aka reducing the high flow pressure and lower it to closer to boundary layer level. So it is a controlled mixing device.
I see vortex generators on airplanes that need increased short take-off performance also. Thanks for the informative vid. Now i have a better understanding of how those devices work.
Keypoint: 4:15
Of course vortex generators generate additional parasite drag. However, if designed properly they can reduce form drag.
I so love getting knowledge from someone who actually has some. Thanks for sharing.
Great presentation. As an aviator instructor, it helped me to understand and provide an excellent example for explanation.
Thanks for the information Kyle. It led to me do a lot more research to understand how they work. I realized that a vortex generator is useless on my car and possibly counterproductive.
Cheers mate, Very helpful and good and the Explanation along with applying the Scientific Proof of what Vortex Generaters do. 💯
Lool that flex in the intro 💪🏾 tells me i came to the right channel 👍🏽
Nice video, good explanation for low velocity air flow. High velocity appears to react very differently, flow separation always occurs.
I had no idea there was such a thing. I learned something completely new and your explanation was clear and concise. Subscribed!
Most enlightening, great stuff ... I like seeing cars with VGs and no spoiler. Hehehe ...
MUCH BETTER!
Frankly after watching your '30 second' explanation i couldn't stop scratching my head and thinking WTF?
I understand now :)
Great videos - Would love something that goes a bit more in depth on what types of vortex generators the average person might DIY in their garage for a budget limited race car.
Excellent, Kyle!
I appreciate your diligence and hard work bringing aerospace to the masses
Wow this video is amazing. I'm writing a paper on Vortex generators for my minor project and this surely helps!!
"this video is really boring"
Vtec at 04:57
*SNEEZES* i cant concentrate because its too funny to learn
Vortex generators utilize the same effect that dimples on a golf-ball utilize, except on a golf ball we have to cover the entire ball because we don't know where the front and back are because the ball is spinning, where as on a car or airplane we know where the front and back are, so we can place the vortex generators strategically.
this comment is before I watch the video.
so, I think I understand what they are and what they do. they are a device which create vortecees which energizes the flow and forces it to more closely follow a surface without detatching and creating a wake.
let's see after the video if I was right, wrong or somewhere in between
Edit: I think I was right, I just didn't have the full knowledge behind it.
good video even tho it is old and the audio is pretty bad
Nice work man! U alongside with Engineering Explained make a perfect duo for enlightening us and making our automotive knowledge expand to respectable degree. Thanks
Can I hate your separation bubble at 2:05 which is going the wrong way...?
Andrew Rabbitt I noticed that too. Adverse pressure gradient definition is also incorrect.
Can I hate that VTEC YO seems to be written on an evo? XD
Yeah exactly. If he really understand, he shouldnt do it this way!
It's been so many years but somehow I remember it was this video that had the exact moment I was looking for 0:22
As someone studying aviation this was rather trippy looking at upside down wings heh
Great vid
I feel informed and a bit educated, thank you sir
Love the content. I used to have a Very-EZ airplane that had a canard wing.
Basically, to optimize the flow of the wing, you have to add wings.
Kyle, Great tutorial video's please don't take the negative comments seriously. 99% of the negative commenters have no education, very low income and are unhappy people.
please keep it up! Thanks
Hi Kyle, could you do a video on the usage of vortex generators for flow stabilization on trailers? I am designing a very light camper trailer (to be towed behind a sedan). In order to minimize potential for dangerous sway oscillations from aerodynamic buffeting, I have already minimized the frontal area and rounded the edges and corners. However, strong, pulsating side winds still scare me. I am wondering if strategic placement of VG's can alleviate these drag effects and make the trailer tow more calmly. My tongue loadings and Cg are nearly perfect, and I have both electronic and mechanical anti-sway; I am trying for reducing the condition which induces sway in the first place.
I certainly trust you after that introduction buddy.
This was very helpful and informative! Thank you for taking the time to explain them!!
I love that this video starts off with a “please fuck off....kindly”
but very good information in these videos
Have you dove into computing scavenging pressure waves for engines? That's something I'd like to see someone who knows a lot talk about. Maybe simulate it with a one cylinder engine to visualize the what the valve open/close frequency does in conjunction with pipe lengths. I study mech.eng. but the fluid mechanics course was not enough for me to start simulating stuff in CAD or calculate by hand. Keep the videos flowing!
I had a book called desktop dyno. Had calculations for length of primaries and what not. It was neat to calculate different rpm's, cam profiles, and pipe geometrt and eventually produce a wave that showed how the engine goes in and out of TUNE.
I should be doing my civil engineering subject readings, but this is way more entertaining
Great video! Now I have a challenge for you, what would you do to make a 2015 beetle reach its maximum aerodynamic efficiency? The car certainly has an interesting profile
Nice vid I will now put them on my Just aircraft superstol. They also offer spoilers that come up when the wing goes down. I chose not to do the spoilers. Any way TY for the vid.
that was an incredible explanation
Great informative video, but you need to figure out a way to get rid of Echo so we can hear you even better, Thanks!
I am a high school student from the U.S. This video has helped me greatly in my Formula 1 in Schools car. My team is thinking of implementing these into our 1/20 scale model F1 car. Could you compare the different types of vortex generators and the respective efficiencies?
Hi and thanks for watching! The efficiencies for each generator vary massively depending on the application so it is hard to give specific numbers, however I can give some general guidelines. Backwards facing ramp types work great where your boundary layer is thick and you want a single VG to service a wide area behind it, forward facing ramp works alright for most things and is generally pretty tolerant to imperfect design. Vane type are useful cause they can deflect flow in a desired direction as well as produce vortices, with delta vanes being better for vortex production and straight being better at flow deflection. Dimples are good as they are low drag, however their vortices aren't strong. Generally, the sharper an edge you can put on your generator, the better, hence why the Evo ones aren't so great.
In saying all this, I'm not sure VGs are a great idea on an F1 in schools car, as your main aim is to reduce drag so you would be better off producing geometries that don't separate in the first place, rather than making an abrupt geometry that you need VGs to keep flow attached on (VG's themselves produce drag, they only reduce drag by making bad geometries that would separate act a bit nicer). Also, your manufacturing capabilities would have to be very impressive to produce well defined VGs on the surface of something as small as an F1 in schools car, may I suggest if your design still requires this tech that you look into dimples instead?
Hope that helps!
You definitely left a large variety of vortex generators off that list: 1)vortex generator stew 2) boiled vortex generator 3) vortex generator salad 4) fried vortex generator 5) sawtayed vortex generator ( to name a few more). By the way please private message me if you would consider joining me in making my own vortex generator company.
a very informative video. thanks alot for the explanation. but if possible, improve the way you draw on the whiteboard. makes everything even better
or add comparisons done with simulations would be cool as well.
Thank you.Excellent!..How can this be applied to RV Trailers(campers) or my Old Toyota 4Runner on improving MPG?TY 73s
With something that big you might want to look into the drag reduction modifications used on semi trucks and trailers
Thanks! Very informative. Convinced me to not waste me money on the car option. ;)
I recently installed a GT wing on the rear of my Nissan 350Z. You're videos have helped me understand how high to mount the wing. Now my problem is how to know at what angle the wing should be. Could you talk some on how to find the correct or best angle to set my wing.
Thanks for the great lesson.. i just can recommend you to put some echo and reverb dampening material into the room to improve acoustics.
You should discuss the aero design of the 86.
Maybe in the future we'll be able to integrate microscopic vortex generators into the material surface like shark skin to help control the flow.
Definitely more than mildly informative
Man I wish I had known about this channel when I was taking fluid dynamics
It would be good to know which generators to use where and when, on a saloon, on a single seater, on a diffuser, on a boot lid...
Science! Thanks for making aero understandable
Would you mind showing us what the most efficient vortex generator is?
Considering the examples in the very beginning, I'm surprised you didn't bring up what having vortex generators without a huge spoiler (like the OE Evo and STi come with) will do to a car. It's become a car-swag move, and as far as I recall it was most effective as an aid to the rear spoiler, as you demonstrated.
Now as for the rear window mounted wings, such as the Cosworth Escorts and more recently (albeit more for style) 2009 Ford Focus SES Coupe, what are those offering on their own, and to another token what do they offer a lower spoiler on the trunk-lid versus a vortex generator?
Depending on the car and how smooth the transition in, the other benefit is to reduce the wake, thus reducing drag
I have a stock 95 Civic VX that gets 45 mpg city and regularly 50 to 55 mpg open road. "70 mph" The next step is testing aerodynamic mods.
Can you explain the future of winglets on the aircrafts and different methods to further decrease the drag?
That's a whole different animal. See a given wing without a winglet produces a strong vortex at the tip when the wing is producing lift due to the high pressure air underneath the wing, curving up to the low pressure air on the upper surface. By adding a winglet you are adding a almost vertical surface with an even smaller chord. But the angle of attack stays the same throughout the phases of flight because the angle of attack of the aircraft it self is through the pitch axis. Yaw is the axis of which would change the strength of the tip vortex. Therefore the vortex is allot smaller and weaker than that of the wing with a normal tip. Thus less drag. There is allot of perfecting going on with wiglets currently to try and create lift, while also decreasing the effect of tip votices.
Very interesting.. What about the front damm under bumpers..would lovr to know more on that😊
So is an Adverse Pressure Gradient part of the reason that when you're in a convertible, rather than the wind pushing your hair back, it pushes it in the direction you're looking? I've always wondered why it does this...
Oh boy he said they work
Time to put them on my civic with absolutely no performance mods and that will never see a track in its life
watching this with cc on is hilarious.