Flintlock versus caplock versus tube lock military musket - a triple mad minute challenge
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- Always wonder which is faster? A flintlock, a caplock and a tube lock military musket are in focus today. A tactical comparison of the three most common ignition systems of the mid 19th century.
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I wish tube locks could be found here in the US. We have plenty of Austrian rifles that were converted prior to import for the Civil War, but to find one with a tube lock is incredibly rare.
The are quite rare here as well. And finding a shooting piece is quite difficult.
V c f s f s TV h um Incheba
People who even know about tube locks seem incredibly rare; they always seem to get skipped over in documentaries. The progression most commonly described seems to go "matchlock, wheellock, flintlock, caplock" and that's it. Interesting that it was an Austrian innovation; along with the Girandoni rifle, they really seem to have had a thing for having their own unique designs of experimental new weapons.
@@tommcewan7936I love when people bring up the Girondoni rifle, such a beautiful yet sadly overlooked piece of equipment.
Great comparison! Very interesting how the Austrian drills maintained the priming before the loading. Loved it.
O snap I'm subscribed to you too. :D
well, actually the French did also the same, their drill for firing with the percussion muskets 1842 and later patterns (1853, 1857) still started with priming, i.e. placing the percussion cap onto the nipple, after which the hammer was lowered over the cap, and then pushed back onto half-cock. Only then was the musket turned over and placed to the ground in a vertical position, in order to load with cartridge and ram down the charge. This was maybe done in order to make the new drill easier to learn for troops already trained in the earlier flintlock loading procedure, or else because it was felt that fiddling about with the cap to place onto the nipple when the loading charge with bullet was already rammed home into the barrel could potentially prompt accidents when in action in close order. Anyway, this drill was quite unique in this respect, because all other armies started with loading the charge and then placing the cap onto the nipple for priming.
My favourite gun channels on TH-cam are:
- Capandball,
- ForgottenWeapons (who made me discover Capandball),
- C&Rsenal,
- Jonathan Fergusson's fun interventions on Gamekult,
- and sometimes InRangeTV!
I never miss any video from the first two, ever!
1 and 3 are the only good ones. Don't forget about Duelist1954 as well.
@@AA-dn8dj don't like Ian?
@@AA-dn8dj....did.. did you just shit talk gun Jesus? May he have mercy on your calibers...
You should check out kentucky ballistics, its like a red green fpsrussia.
@@AA-dn8djImagine hating on Ian, Brandon, Garand Thumb and Admin Results
Really cool. I've never heard of a tube lock musket before.
Thank you for the comparisons, I was unaware of the tubelock system until you showed them here and in past videos. I also agree with you about the flintlock, being unpredictable. Here in Illinois during the hot humid months they can be quite frustrating. Your videos are highly appreciated by me!
Ditto for never having heard of the tubelock. I can get percussion caps easily; no idea where to get tubelock primers. Something to investigate.
I have heard about a skandinavian tinder mushrom lock !
The tube system was new to me, really cool to see it in action. Maybe you could put more historical background in another episode.
Thank you for the detailed history and demonstration of these firearms. I didn’t know about the tube lock, and I’m surprised it wasn’t more prevalent since it looks a lot easier to handle than the small percussion caps. Of course the development of revolvers would insure that tube locks would go out of use. I also didn’t know that the development of priming compounds was on-going with the transition to percussion caps. I often wondered why percussion caps were not invented earlier and that explains it. And I can easily imagine that the use of a fulminate as a propellant in an artillery piece did not go well! Great video!
Thanks for the demonstration of the muskets. When percussion locks came out the makers did alot of experimental lockbwork. I like that safe, concealed percussion explosion lock.
The demonstration was telling. I had come to believe that the change occurred because it was faster. Not so, it was far more reliable.
More reliable leads to increased rate of fire overall from a unit, so kind of faster but only when considering how misfires slow you down. Also safer, as it reduces the risk of someone double loading a musket after a misfire and then getting ignition on the second attempt.
I have never seen a real tubelock before. That is very interesting!
always a treat to watch Capandball channel. Thank you
Your sir are an awsome Utuber. Your content and video presentation is outstanding and historically informative.
I know that this has little bearing on this video , but about 45 years ago at a black powder rendezvous our camp came under fire from 3 or 4 people above us with modern rifles. We were only armed with flintlock trade guns and a few rifled flinters. 15 or so of us returned fire and drove off the psychos that were shooting at us.
Thank you for this video. I thought I knew a bit about black powder arms, but I don't remember the tube lock. This was enlightening!
Fascinating topic and awesome exploration
Excellent presentation! Thank you.
Excellent video. Thank you.
Great show as Always.!!
Very interesting and informative. Thanks for the simple explanation of the workings of these historic firearms. Another excellent post from this channel.
Thank you for the detailed explanations.
Always a joy to see your videos. The comparisons of these three different lock types and the firing of each was executed perfectly. Plus the historical significance of each change was also very illuminating. Thank you for another great video.
Love the channel and the attention to detail ❣️
One of your best videos so far, learned so much about the transition from Flintlock to Percussion.
great informative content, love your work as always :D learning about this period of history is so much better when you can show exactly how these weapons operate and what is possible with a person who is adept at using them
Another fantastic video. It was a joy to watch, as always.
I also had not seen a tube lock before. I had read of it, but never seen it. Interesting manual of arms for all 3. Thanks for the very informative content!
Fantastic video. Love the living history you share.
I’ve probably been with this channel since 2014, and I’ve enjoyed every second of it! Bless you! 🙂
I am happy everytime you upload. Gonna enjoy the video later today. Have a great weekend.
6:31 that smile is so heart warming
Great video. I've heard references to the tube lock but this is the first time I've been given a detailed explanation of it's use. Not to mention, seeing one fired.
It makes my day to see your cap and ball review of history.
I am a capandball enthusiast, i like so much your videos.
I have a beautiful original 1892 winchester in 44-40. Due to the difficulty of finding hunting loads for it i have begun to reload my own cartridges, your videos helped to inspire me in this undertaking as well as watching your hunting videos.
Greetings from the mountains of south central BC, thanks for the video. We almost never see tube lock arms here and it's always educational to see an original in action. Thanks so much sir, stay well.
Great comparison video. A friend of mine was shooting his Pedersoli Lorenz rifle on Monday, 3-6-23 at our club range to practice for this weekend competitive shoot @NSSA
Ft. Shenandoah, Winchester, Va. USA.
Always love the videos.......great information!
Great video brother and thanks for the fascinating comparison. To me the tubelock looks the most fiddly of the three but I can see why it ws adopted over the flintlock.
I have been studying history and reenacted American Revolution and Civil War for years, and I'm just now finding out about this tube lock mechanism. Thanks for the info!
flawless video
Thanks for explaining the tube lock to me, I never quite understood how it worked and was loaded.
Thanks Kindly for this amazing video! Just yesterday I was shooting my 1829 N. Starr Middleton, Conn. 69cal. It was a 1814 model that was flintlock and converted to cap and ball by the US Army. Very much like the muskets you fire here. The art and beauty of these old firearms has always fascinated me and the soldiers who used them. Thank You Again and Many Blessings! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
Very informative, I didn’t know about the tube lock system very cool
Great stuff, thank you🤠
Wonderful Video!
Nice one sir
I think some Civil War soldiers put their ramrods into the ground instead of pulling it out from the rifle each round. That saved time in reloading.
ONLY when it was permitted and in rare cases, most returned the rod because if they had to move suddenly? Congrats you lost your rod.
this was actually done by many soldiers even earlier, as early as firearms were introduced probably, but only in static firefights when there was no need or will to change position, either advancing or retreating, otherwise you could easily leave your ramrod behind!
I wasn't aware of a tubelock. Learn something new all the time
Very cool video!
Thank you
I have Flintlock and a Percussion Lock muskets, but as someone previously mentioned the tube locks are very hard to find here in the United States. Thatn you for the very good video.
NICE, once again!!!
Vielen Dank für dieses hervorragende Video.
Es ist immer wieder interessant die Entwicklung zu sehen und die Gewehre life in Aktion zu sehen.
Vielen Dank für Ihre Mühe
Alles Gute
Frank Galetzka
Verry good shooting as usual! I appreciate the video, and the interesting history of the flintlock, the caplock, and the tube lock.David Back from Menifee county Kentucky USA.
I'm surprised you could load the flintlock as fast as the other two systems.
Yeah it's mainly the loading of the primary charge and round down the barrel that takes up the majority of time, the priming is relatively insignificant comparatively.
"Ya know how you get to Carnegie Hall?" Practice, practice, practice. 😊
Good video
Some of the American channels have been testing the accuracy of smooth bore muskets. The best accuracy combination kind of defies logic. One would think that a tightly patched round ball would be the most accurate, but turns out it is not. The best accuracy came from the ball being placed directly on the powder with a wad material over top it, to keep it compressed. The theory is that the gasses from the charge keep the ball centered in the bore. Groups tended to be tighter when the gun was fired in this manner. Maybe you could try testing various powder, ball, patch and wad combinations to see what your end results are for accuracy.
I was competing in international matches with my musket. the best groups I shot were unpatched loads. 80 grain FFg Swiss powder + a felt wad + .682 ball + felt wad worked quite good in my original Harpers Ferry musket.
quite interesting, this mirrors what was usually done with the loading drills of most armies, we tend to think that they just threw the open cartridge into the barrel as it was, but actually soldiers were taught to first reverse the cartridge in order to shake all the powder into the barrel, then reverse it and push it into the barrel bullet-end first, with the paper tube on top. Ramming down the charge would effectively push the paper tightly onto the top of the bullet as a sort of wad, as you said, thus avoiding too much gas to escape around the bullet. Too often we tend to assume that people back then were unaware of the basics of ballistics, they were not! Most officers were in fact hunters (and a few soldiers too), they knew how to use firearms to the best effect, and the loading drills were really meant to get the best from the men both in terms of speed, safety, and accuracy. In combat of course not everything went by the book, or as well as on the drill square, but this applies to every epoch, even today! When we say that flintlocks were inefficient because they only hit their marks one out of 200 or even 453 times, we tend to forget that in modern combat the actual hitting ratios are much lower than that!
I learned something today.
When talking about the history of lock ignition systems, everyone skips Jean Samuel Pauly's metallic cartridge of 1808 that used a center fired percussion cap in a copper base. It was the first self-contained metallic cartridge for breach loading firearms. It was also too far of a technological leap for the time. His employees, Lefaucheux and von Dreyse did remember his percussion primer invention.
Man, I love those gun very beautiful 👍
Hello! I have a video suggestion - how does it sound to be at the receiving end of a musket? How does it sound when the lead ball flies by? I'd really like to know what soldiers heard when walking into a volley. Thanks.
I can place a remote camera an microphone downrange.
@@capandball Yes, that would be amazing!
I mean there's plenty of other vids on youtube for that...
@@capandball I have haerd about a skandinavian tinder mushroom look ,do you know about it?
Channel blowing up! Dark arts god! 🎉
Excellent video. Thank you for all the effort you put into these. I wish there were more tube-locks here in the UK. I have seen only one, and I never got to shoot it. Thank you for confirming the loading steps, too. See, Bernard Cornwall!? You don't "bite the bullet off" then spit it down the barrel, you hack! Sorry. I really hate Bernard Cornwall. Back to the muskets.
You can see why it was required that musketry soldiers had at least 2 functioning teeth LOL
The Augustin cartridge could be opened by hand as well according to the drill, not just by the teeth.
Potassium perchlorate, not potassium chloride, at first I misheard :)
Lead, mercury residue to breath in... sounds healthy haha
Luckily you're well aware of all symtoms of saturnism and mercury intoxication, so you'd notice if anything were wrong ;)
Всегда что то новое для меня.
Interesting system! never hear about it.
Thanks...
What a pity that the little firing lanyard didn't open the paper cartridge when is cut... So, the step "opening with teeth" became useless.
What I wonder is why it isn't an issue using the ramming rod time and time again. It would seem to me that you scratch the inside of the barrel.
Insane grouping by the way...at that distance and that speed!
Thank you for a most informative session. Have you tried longer range shooting with those? !00 meter to 200 meters?
I always enjoyed firing the cap & ball rifles in my godfathers collection except when i was a young teen and had trouble holding up the weapon because it was so long and barrel heavy lol
short question, why do you always replace the ramrod? Would it not be faster to keep it in your hand or in the belt?
I find if I use flints, either broken arrowheads or agate, I have less misfires than with percussion caps.
So a difference, in terms of ignition with the percussion rifle is that you have to keep replacing the caps instead of the gunpowder in the pan and one directly ignites the main charge through the touch hole in the nipple reaching the main charge in the bridge of the barrel? Can someone please clarify my accuracy in this or not i’m learning about this through the Sepoys’s rebellion between the British and the Indians and they got really interested in. How rifle work now. I’m referring to the difference using 2:45-3:07 and 8:04-10:05.
For your fans in the United States, it would be greatly appreciated if you could state specifications, such as bore diameter, weight of projectile and powder charge etc. in both metric and imperial measurements. Unfortunately those of us in the USA are totally unfamiliar with metric measurements. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
I noticed that you were struggling a little when pulling out the ramrod from the channel and it makes me wonder if there are incidents back then where ramrods get stuck from from the gun due to poor maintenance and battlefield dirt and render the soldier unable to load his musket. And even if it isn't completely stuck a soldier would waste time and energy from pulling the ramrod out of a tight channel, perhaps it's one of the reason jaegers carry ramrods in their bandoliers instead of their rifles?
My one issue unless it was in your nation's drill manual, you do NOT remove the cap until you have reloaded, it keeps any embers in the breech from flaring up when air is exposed, if you remove the cap before reloading, the sudden draft could heat embers up and ignite your load before you ram the cartridge.
Actually I only have one original source from this period from my country. The military drills here were written for flintlock and tube lock.
@@capandball Makes sense, spooky however but explains it; I would hope some poor soul in the past did not get a cook-off in battle, might have happened.
Potassium + Sulfur Where can you
Find it, friend? How to find out what to hit online
👍👍👍👍
What did you use for the paper to hold the charge and ball
wrapping paper from the post office.
Carrying, aiming with these rifles are not easy 'cause they are quite heavy and also very long. The caplock is 1500mm long...
Jó lenne egy magyar verzió a kémiai gyujtásos elöltöltős fegyverekből!
👍😊 your three shots a minute, I’m one shot in three minutes 🤷♂️😂.
:)
Can you make a video on a blunderbuss
If I can get one yes.
Please support Mike Bellevue everyone. The duelest den is under attack!
I already posted it to my subscribers.
Tubelock... that one is skipped in alot of us firearm history. I would say that from 1850 to 1900 almost every army changed arsenal 3x
Wasn’t aware of the tube type priming system. Most likely because I didn’t see anything about it in the USA. European only?
Austrian, specifically. It was meant as an option to convert flintlocks without having to build entirely new lockwork. In the end it wasnt quiet possible because of tje non interchangable nature of parts at the time, but austria still adopted it, and it worked as well as caps did.
How many grams of powder is used?? According to a converter that I found, it tells me you are loading 134 grains of powder??? In a roughly .68 or .69 caliber barrel??? That is ALOT of powder!
0:29 Shouldn't you close your eyes before shooting?
Cool to see the tubelock in action. I've only ever seen one in a book about arms and equipment used by Union and Confederate forces during the American Civil War, some were imported for use during the ACW. I don't think they were ever as prevalent as cap locks and were probably more rare then flintlocks in that conflict
Don't think I've ever seen anyone put a percussion cap on the nipple before loading the charge. I've always been taught to load, leaving the hammer down on the spent cap, then prime with a new cap.
Military vs civilian. A carry over from flintlock days.
I guess they needed good teeth for all that biting.
According to you which gun is better
it is my opinion that tubelock would have replaced flintlock in military arms if the flintlocks they were converting had better part interchangeability instead of being mostly hand finished with so many size differences making conversions so difficult
Agree.
Don't you think high risk of detonation with the first version version of the lock, is playing a larger role? Hand made, not interchangeable parts, was the norm. And they where very good at it. The labour was cheap, but the material was more expensive. History tells us they did a lot of changes with the old muskets, everywhere. For example; I got a 1774 Kronborg (danish) where the flintlock was made into percussion 1841, and in 1851, the original barrel was rifled. So in other words, they upgraded 75 year old muskets. The risk of detonation described with the first version, is in my view a greater reason. Military equipment must always be made as close to fool proof as possible.
Vs wheel lock
where is the tube in the tube lock musket ?
The primer is the tube.
@@capandball oh thx , I didn't saw that
Average Caplock fan vs average flintlock enjoyer
Me bets on the tube lock
i me indea
How did you get real brass bands on your Austrian 1798 musket?
It is a standard out of box Pedersoli repro
I wonder what his wife has to say about explosions coming form the living room. 😀
She's used to it. :)
Hey TH-cam I’m going to get an Ad block all because you can’t control yourself with the number of ads. PS pls choke on Hickok45s Python !
Sorry but it was ridiculous lately on every single channel and I was always hoping to give the channels some ad revenue so I wouldn’t block everything but I’m done with being nice