I'm sure John Ward would have found something bad to say about it ..... Another really enthusiastic TH-cam video blogger is AvE ..... if you can understand what he's saying ;)
This is glorious, been searching for "emergency lighting batteries 6" for a while now, and I think this has helped. Have you heard people talk about - Eenseh Unthinkable Expediency - (search on google )? It is a good one off product for discovering how to get emergency light without relying on batteries minus the headache. Ive heard some super things about it and my friend got great results with it.✅
My dad was a electrical engineer at a different EU/Dutch emergency lightning company. Some of them even have internal battery heater to keep the battery alive outside in the cold
In the 90s I was working at a cinema as a machinist, we had 24V exit signs, two lead acid batteries in the machineroom was the powersource. The Cinema was built 1923 and using the same cables and some patches, it was a struggle to get the signs working at all. And some directors slipped a note in the box with the 35mm film with instructions how to show the movie. It was quite common with a schedule (raider) how to show the movie, this music should be played before the movie and this after. I remember Jurassic Park, "Please turn up Dolby effects volume, turn exit lights off".
I do like electronics and taking things to bits but for some time now I come here just to be calmed down by the voice of Clive :) Great educational, fun and therapeutic value!
I originally found bigclive when I fell down the rabbit hole of TH-cam but since then I am hooked on his videos. Not only are his videos informational and enjoyable but his voice is nice to listen to.
Emergency lights are fun to play with, I pulled an 8w tubed one from a skip a few years back, well-toasted inside but still worked, but I gutted it anyway and filled the thing with LED tape and glued a 12v SLA battery into it, and then earlier this year found an NIB LED one in a charity shop for a fiver, complete with battery pack, and that too I've thrown some LED strips into to make it useful as a regular bulkhead light with the option of backup light... :)
I had an office in a facility that hadn't converted its exit since from Tritium. Part of the facility was used on weekends as an AirSoft play range. Some of those signs got shot out :( :( :(
@@patchvonbraun Because the gas is heavy hydrogen, the mean velocity of the molecules at room temperature is very high and the diffusion rate of the gas in air is extremely high. It is virtually impossible to experience even a measurable dose of beta radiation from tritium when one of these signs is broken, let alone a dose dangerous to health. There have never been any recorded cases of significant health impacts to anyone as a result of their breakage so far as I am aware.
That looks like a very well thought out piece of kit - much better than the cheapo Chinese stuff from eBay! I bet it's somewhat more expensive as well...
I kind of fear that the actual price difference ( not to mention TCO) between a Chinesium one and a proper one is not that great on the manufacturing end.
The other day my son and I were aimlessly wondering around Walmart, in the Christmas lights section we found one of the "fake candle lights" that Clive took apart months ago. I'll wait til after Christmas and see if they go on clearance. There were $4 american dollhairs. I think the equivalent that Clive took to bits back then was 7 bucks. I'm betting same guts on the inside. My point being not much of a parts difference.
My guesses; 1. For localisation, just slap on a label of the language you're selling. 2. Crystal is for timing, the 30 sec test, the 3 hour test, and the weekly/yearly schedule of said tests.
The switch may be a general purpose option switch. Maybe they envisioned other uses in different markets. The crystal is probably for timing accuracy in the self test routines.
@@eliaschnl The internal oscillator of a micro controller should be easily accurate enough for all testing purposes. Typically they are within +-1 or 2% worst case. Does it really matter when a 3h test runs 2 minutes longer or shorter?
I see a problem with these devices and the description of them. They have a fairly accurate timer (I assume less then 20ppm error for that crystal) and after power-on they start self tests at regular intervals. So if you have more then one of them powered up at the same time, they will run the 3h self test at the same time. If the clocks go out of sync, there is still the key switch mentioned around 3:37 to synchronize them again. Now with these parallel 3h self tests, all emergency lights will drain their battery at the same time. If a real emergency happens after that 3h self test, the battery will be empty. A solution would be some sort of random value added to the self test interval or some redundancy (two batteries, each capable of powering it for 3h). Just some thoughts.
That's the same scenario as annual EM testing on any lighting circuit. It's a roll of the dice, the regs say they should be tested at "a time of minimum risk" but is that through the day when there's natural light (in some buildings) or through the night when there's less people put at risk (in some buildings). They then have to obviously charge back up just like this one. I do 2 floors in our building, the floors are shared among the shift sparks, and test monthly in sections, around 15mins per section. Then the annual test comes along and I have to do a quarter of a floor per 3hrs in a night, obviously risking failure due to actually running the batteries to death (very common) or some power failure emergency happens before they're properly recharged (far less common).
You’re thoughts are right. I can tell you that “professional” auto test emergency lighting does indeed have randomisation of duration tests to ensure em lighting isn’t compromised as a result of synchronised tests. More advanced systems will allow remote monitoring/ triggering of tests which can be used to schedule tests at specific times on an individual basis.
Randomisation of the duration of the test wouldn't be the right thing to do. The duration of the test must be 3h and the interval between tests must be less then one year. So the only variable is the interval between tests and the random value must be subtracted from the year to make sure the interval isn't longer then one year. Another problem with small embedded systems is a source of true randomness. Most of the time there is none and they are completely deterministic. Today in the office I had to press the test-buttons of similar emergency exit signs, just to see if they behave in the same way as the one shown in the video. It was exactly the same, but I didn't wait for the long test to finish. ;)
zvpunry No you misunderstand. They Random seed the start date of the duration tests, not the test length, then 3hr tests still occur every 12 months, they just won’t happen all at the same time.
I had to read it again and you are right, this would prevent the tests being started at the same time. I somehow read "randomisation of duration tests" as "randomisation of _the_ duration _of the_ tests".
I took apart an older-ish (1990's I think) emergency exit sign before. It's the old US type with the red letters. It had a bunch of very bright red LEDs. Battery was NiMh. The coolest part is the power transformer! It has a 277V winding, and a tap for 120V. That way it can operate off of single-phase or three-phase power systems. P.S. I remember a few years ago, some emergency lights were recalled for ... catching fire! LOL, fail.
Up until a couple of weeks ago, (when I was laid off) I installed these as my job here in the states. In America the test is not 3 hours, but 90 minutes I guess if somebody's in an emergency situation for longer than 90 minutes without power they're a goner. I like the design of this, it's much nicer than the ones we typically see here
It seems like they should really incorporate some sort of clock to do a self test automatically and eliminate some of the user error. It doesn't even have to be an accurate timer, just something like "must auto self test monthly, must be manually tested annually" and then the unit just auto self tests ~twice a month, or weekly, or even daily, etc... Edit: oh, apparently it does. LOL
Sounds nice. We found the emergency lights at work were dead when a power outage happened and most were non-functional including 2 of the 3 on the stairs and all at the landing outside the stairs. But they replaced them...no need to turn off power, just get sparky to twist some wires up quick live.
We have many of these kind of signs in corridors and stairways of the apartment. It's pretty darn annoying especially during night time as the buzzer is quite loud and high-pitched.
You know what's handy? Those emergency bug lights. You bust the little KO at the top, put a connector in there and bam throw an SO cord on the end or something. Battery packs last a good 4 hours or so. I wired one up for the grandma and if it can be plugged in somewhere handy it's a great for temp lighting immediately after power failure while old folks find their trusty flashlights.
Thanks Big Clive 😊👍 Can you make video and elaborate on this power factor / apparent power . tell us in detail what it really means. is it the power companies charging what they want to charge for electricity and not what we actually using? is this extortion and is this right.
It's not extortion. The new meters can measure current to voltage relationship in a programmable manner. It means they can measure VA as opposed to W. That means that certain items in your home like LED lamps, time switches, microwave and fridge controls, interference suppressors and other low power equipment that relies on simple power supplies will potentially cost between 2 and 20 times what they did before in yearly electricity consumption. Their power draw is low compared to the primary electrical heating loads, but it could still add a lot to a yearly bill.
Reactive energy (VA) is rarely billed to consumers. If it is, yes, you can correct it. VA is billed to companies/factories, and they have "capacitor batteries" (battery in the meaning of "a bunch of" as opposed to "a power source") to correct the factor and bring back the VA consumption close to the Watt consumption. You can DIY if you know stuff about electronics. But the first step you gotta do is ask your electricity company bill you based on the watts or VA you consume. If they no not bill you on reactive energy then you don't have to worry about your electronics taking 20 times more VA.
I wonder how long the LED's will last continuously operated? It's a shame we haven't got to the point where we can create white LED's that don't fade over time. Quite often you see them turn to a dull, pale purple. Might be interesting to see if a manufacturer decide to create small 12" LED tubes for this kind of application. But I guess by the time the LED's degenerate, it will be way beyond the time to replace the battery.
Dan Coulson Does anyone know if the purplish light said to be emitted by end-of-life phosphor LEDs is UV light? I.E., perhaps the junction was designed to emit UV to energize the phosphor, and continues to do so, but the phosphor becomes incapable of converting it to white light. If yes, is the emitted UV dangerous/harmful?
@@haroldsmith45302 it cannot possibly be harmful first because of the low output, second because it's all blocked by the housing. Also, UV is not a visible light so I doubt that's the case.
Eemergency lights have to be certified in the UK, and elsewhere in the world, part of that certification involves what is known as performance of LED modules, LED modules have to comply seperately and are tested for RG (Risk group, usually RG-0 or RG-1) ,Blue Light and UV, the UV is very low and not harmful, even at end of life where it has considerably dropped.
Harold Smith Only the very earliest white phosphor LEDs used UV - and that was well before incorporating them into light bulb fixtures became a thing. Aside from those very, very, rare early phosphor white LEDs, all white phosphor LEDs use blue light. Otherwise they can produce white LEDs that do not diminish over time, provided they are run at conservative power levels with ample coiling, by using actual red, green, and blue LEDs instead of phosphors, but they are not as efficient and cost more to produce and run per lumen of light than the more common phosphor white LEDs. But for signage like this it would be very practical and would allow for simple battery replacement. Unfortunately, we have become a throw-away society of late!
Hey Clive I have a 18v ni cad drill battery and I want to convert it to lithiam ion, and I have lots of 18650s. I know I would have to use 5 cells which would mean 20v, I'm just wondering how can I charge it safely and know when the batteries need charging. HELP??
Look into balance charging systems (hobby chargers). I use a 4s lipo battery in my quadcopter it has a wire for each connection and can drain/charge any battery in the pack simultaneously. you would need a 5s capable charger for 5 cells (I've seen 8s chargers i'm sure). Inside some of the battery packs i've stripped for parts have what looks like balance charging built into the pcb. I hope this points you in the right direction.
#samfisher, look at TP4056 chip, packs of 5 on ebay for £1 , charge and then put in a holder or get a 5S charger for about the same price on ebay too, @Julian Ilett #JulianIlett has a few videos and @Adam Welch #AdamWelch #SolarShed great starting point video HTH th-cam.com/video/RJ8fYrodjow/w-d-xo.html
No offense intended, but if you are needing to ask these questions then this may not be the right project for you just from a safety perspective. Getting things wrong with a Li-ion substitute can burn a house down whereas that same mistake with NiCd or NiMH batteries just ruins the batteries. The charging requirements of Lithium Ion batteries are very exacting compared to those of the NiCd and NiMH batteries they will be replacing. On top of that it is not as simple as just swapping out 18650s for the existing cells either as your new Li-ion batteries must also be rated for the discharge rate of the intended application and power tools can have rather high discharge currents (some can draw in excess of 25A - or up to about 13C for 2Ah rated cells) and that means that the battery chemistry must be matched to the intended use (in other words, low discharge rate laptop batteries are not necessarily an acceptable substitute in a cordless drill type application, for example, as not all Li-ion chemistries are the same plus some chemistries, like cobalt Li-ion, are more prone to fire than others). If you do tackle this project regardless, you are going to need battery protection circuits that can safely handle rather high sustained discharge rates - some power tools can draw upwards of 20-25A - and that are designed to disconnect the power from the tool if the tool draws too much power, the battery pack gets too hot, or if the battery voltage falls below about 3.2V/cell under load (over discharging Li-ion cells is not safe either). The battery protection must also disconnect from the charger if any one cell’s voltage ever exceeds more than a few hundredths of a volt greater than 4.2V (for most Lithium Ion chemistries) as much beyond 4.25V and the risk of fire becomes unacceptable - hence the razor edge in Li-ion batteries where we often want to charge them to 4.2V/cell but just a few hundredths more and they can catch fire! That is also why charge balancing becomes critical during charging when you have multiple cells in series because not every cell will charge at the same rate nor by the same amount without active balancing and why the battery protection circuit should automatically disconnect the battery from the charger if any one cell’s voltage rises too high as that means that either the charger has failed or the balancing circuit has failed. You will also want to use Li-ion cell’s that are similarly matched in terms of actual capacity and impedance (equivalent series resistance) so that they charge and discharge more or less at the same rate to one another - something to be wary of if using otherwise random 18650s from multiple sources or if using used batteries that may no longer deliver their originally stated capacity. About the simplest way to get all of that is to buy a Ryobi 18V One+ Lithium battery and charger as their 5-cell batteries are about 1.8-2A, depending upon the model, (they also sell larger 4A 10 cell and 6A 15 cell batteries) and usually sell as a pair of batteries for about $50 or singly with a proper charger, but that gives you a pretty well engineered battery plus charging system and does not depend upon any smarts in the cordless tool to provide protection. Otherwise you may have to select from systems geared towards RC drone type applications to get the higher power handling needed. Also be aware of the fact that Ali-ion cells tend to maintain their voltage much better than NiCd or NiMH under high draw, such as heavy use of a power tool or a stalled motor, and that fact can potentially destroy a converted power tool if there is nothing to automatically disconnect the power (either a properly tuned battery protection circuit or a fuse) since the Li-ion batteries will supply far more power to the motor under such loads than the originally intended batteries ever could - at best motor speed controllers burn out quickly if stalled or in heavy use, or, at worst, the motor or brushes can self destruct if power is not very quickly interrupted. However you go, I wish you all the best.
If I recall the video I saw was with a plug that he promptly dropped saying " _fucking hell_ " don't remember which one exactly though! *edit* It might have been one of the bug zapper videos
ive got a bunch of these "through hole" rather than SMD with fluorescent tubes all working but failed 3C Ni-Cad cells, any project ideas to re-purpose or upcycle people ?
It would have been nice to know the buzzer was there for the visually impaired or in case thick smoke blankets the room. All in all it’s a well thought out design.
Codingale lol I normally don’t look at the comments but I wondered if anyone else noticed it too. I wonder what makes the high pitch noise. Those old cathode ray tube televisions are a noisy thing too!
Here’s a question unrelated to this specific device, but very much related to modern tech and servicing. I’ve often wondered: When did tech evolve to the point (and with what devices) that no single human was able to understand it’s circuitry/logic from beginning to end? For example: I once worked in consumer electronics repair, and did component level troubleshooting. At that time, one person (instructor, tech rep, etc) could walk you through every bit of circuitry from the antenna to the (then) CRT. With the advent of IC’s, and CAD, I suspect that ability came to an end. But about when exactly?
There are still products and people who understand the full thing fully. But so much electronic equipment relies on software these days that there is a distinct divide between the departments that design the hardware and software. Maintenance has become mostly board swapping with a minority of engineers capable of doing component level fixes on older equipment.
Hello! Thank you so much for this very informational video! I was looking for support as I have an exit sign that blinks the LEDs and I wanted to find the solution. Is there anyone that might have an idea of what the problem could be? Maybe the batteries are getting old? I can't tell how old they are. Ive tried the short test and it seems to be ok. No red led was activated. And if I will run the long test will the "bip" you are talking about happen from the sign or from the fire allarm? I live in a community and I'd love not to create panic. And as is a 3h test I might not be there when the allarm sets off. Thank you very much
It's a good idea to change emergency lights after at most ten years as they degrade over time. You may be able to get a replacement rechargeable battery pack for the light, but the circuitry itself might be aging.
Are you sure the unused connector pads on LED strip is meant for a IR receiver? Couldn't it just be a light sensor for those centrally managed emergency lights (more advanced) which can also self-test the LEDs by checking for light output, ergo it turns on the lights, then checks for feedback, turns off the light, checks for non-feedback, and then repeats the cycle a few times (possibly with random intervals) to really be sure the sign Actually gives light output.
@@bigclivedotcom I doubt a IR sensor would be useful in that location. There is light sensors with 3 connectors that "look like" an IR sensor, but has a clear lens instead of black lens, to let in visible light too. IR-sensor has VCC, OUT and GND, and same for a light sensor. They work exactly like an IR sensor but with the difference it reacts on visible light instead.
Weight to ship those units, price for bulkier batteries, and lack of interest from consumers. Those lights are not meant to supply a failing power supply but are mandatory, period. No point in offering "longer run time" when the customer only want those units to obey to the minimal specifications.
Odd that they used a “switch selection” sticker when they could have saved the time and cost and just printed that info on the PCB. Why kind of chip did they use?
Hi Clive. I have a question or two... I need some help with a project I am working on and from what I’ve seen from your TH-cam vid, you know what you are talking about! I am building a small electronic switch board where by a computer programme will switch on and off switches when prompted. However, I am in the very early stages and I have no idea what these small electronic switches are call nor do I know yet the products that I will need. The comp programme will be written by a friend of mine, and I am doing the hardware side of things. Can you help, or guide me in the right direction? Regards
There are a few options. You can use the old-school electromechanical approach and switch your loads with relays. A more modern approach is "solid state relays", which are quiet and long-lasting because they contain no moving parts (I'm guessing this is what you're looking for). The devices typically used inside solid state relays are a type of thyristor known as a "triac".
we have a load of these in our building and they all flicker and I have bought the identical battery packs for them and that has not seemed to solve anything, they are the same as the one here you are using (channel) , any ideas? Note: they have been in the building for probably 5 years and set to maintained (on 24/7)
Probably the leds are now wearing out I would recommend replacing them all with brand new units and only use them in maintained mode if they are hard to see and non maintained of the room is well lit
You didn't say anything about the batteries. Are they a known brand? Are they "special" for that purpose? Could the light be refurbished or would that be "against the rules"?
@@bigclivedotcom The batteries for luminaries have to have a declaration of conformance and a declared 4-year life cycle, min max charge rates etc, hence why regular off the shelf batteries are not used, only certain big battery manufacturers supply that such as SAFT etc.. as it's classed as a life-safety system
Those twist-clip lighting sockets... why are they not a standard thing in houses? That way "unskilled operatives" could change their light fixtures without needing to poke at the ceiling with screwdrivers while stood on a dining room chair in the dark.
@@bigclivedotcom I feel they may become a feature in my new house (once it's built) to replace the generic ceiling roses our homes have, and those terrible plastic efforts that IKEA supply on their ceiling lights. I assume the whole assembly can support the weight of a light fitting?
Coaster Labs When Code only requires a certain number of hours of runtime then that is what these fixtures will be built to reliably deliver. LEDs have allowed designers to greatly reduce battery size since LEDs can deliver the same lumens of usable light for just 10% of the amp-hour rating the old incandescent bulbs delivered and they even save a good bit versus fluorescent bulb fixtures since they don’t need a high voltage inverted stage anymore.
cool I have one of the old ones with a couple of D cells and a little 6" flowery scent light had it for when I had a home cinema still have the light fitting somewhere batteries must be dead by now although I did disconnect them !
(semi)out of context i think that the concept of political correctness that you people are believing nowdays is misunderstood (or driven that way), what i knew PC is was stating things like: "our opponents are wrong" "everybody has his point of view" "i do this as a job and i have to do my job well of course" "we'll solve every problem" "that's my idealogy" "i love my country" "what about the kids?!?!?!?!" instead of: "i think that our opponents are there pretending to care of something instead they just want power" "there are no other point of views, the rest is crazy bullshit" "i want the world a better place and i'll accept the wage bcs i'm not awkwardly miserable" "you people don't have the farest idea of what problems to solve because you are selfish and ignorant, we do" "mine is not an ideaology, it's that the world that sucks and we all care about this" "there is no meaning in the concept of country or race or whatever, you don't want criminals as neighbours and other stuff, i support that, but that's a non-existing point" "violence and war is just revengefull mansloughter, intelligence works way better for that" etc. beeing "correct" is NOT beeing "political correct"... and if you don't want to be correct i don't know why we should listen to you
@@doktoruzo i've been indirectly accused of that, i still don't understand that point, weak argument btw, like the difference between "colour" and "color" i'm not english, sorry... weak argument btw bye
@@doktoruzo alright, funny story: went to the optician asking for daltonism glasses (i have 10\10 anyways), the waitress did a silly laugh like i was crazy and told me to wait for the technician, the technician came and started to vomit a tsunami of nonsense about special expensive test that are performed "in the city" and bla bla... say that!! you don't know the existence of such glassess, say that!! (still not tryed those yet) but i think that this has little to do with my political joke, like the other subject about "color blindness" that i refuse to accept, i mean forgiving people for what they do or don't because they are "like this" or "like that"... never seen sense in that, but seen a lot of times people that refuse to grow up while becoming bigger in requests, that can't become MY problem, sorry, and this "poetry" doesn't enchant me, never did
Years ago, when the smoke detectors were the "new" in thing, I was working on a Police Department. My partner and I received a call to respond to a residence to see the lady about a bird in her house (we got all sorts of weird calls) When we arrived the very old lady let us in her home, and asked us to find the bird that was chirping, as it had kept her awake all night the night before, and bothered her all day. Well we checked her home for birds and bats (bats were a constant problem in that neighborhood) but could not find any, then on the way out of the disappointed old lady's home, I noticed a new fangled smoke detector over the doorway, every time the bird chirped, the light flashed on the detector. Problem solved, we left her unprotected, but in a quiet home with instructions to replace the battery with a new one in the morning.
You get lights that have a second mains input for use as switched maintained lights. The modern versions usually use a resistor, rectifier and optoisolator to detect the other feed.
Yay! Nice video Clive! I'm afraid this would not pass scrutiny to current standards. Earthing on the control gear before the metal enclosure is no longer allowed as it relies on the PCB tracking to maintain the earth continuity to the case.. which is no longer permitted.. it's picky but that's the new requirement... causing headaches already for manufacturers lol... New stuff needs to earth firstly on the enclosure if of metal then on to the control gear :) Can't remember which standard its in, these are done to a few.. normally 60598-2-22 and 60598-1 is the lumianire as a whole, and the control gear is 61347-2-7 and 61347-2-13... 62034 for the auto test parts compliance.... not including LED Blue light and RG group and CR contrast ratio for the signage (Which seems at least to be ISO compliant!) a lot involved in testing these. You don't say if the manufacturer of this actually has it certified or approved... i wonder? By current technologies and designs.. this is rather a basic unit... many now are DALI, Wifi and IR smart enabled IoT lights.. you'd be amazed at the tech in some of the "advanced" emergency lights nowdays. Emergency lights don't all have to run for 3 hours... there is usually a marking something like "X 1 A**D*** 180" ----- X being Self contained, 1 being Maintained, the letters various features and the last number is the duration in minutes, some emergency lights are only 60, 120 etc... its whatever the luminaire is rated to, the standards do not say "Must be 3 hours".
If it was relying on a track to a round pad on a support pillar I'd be concerned, but in this instance there is a large island of copper shunting the three earth connections together and effectively making the connector into a commoning block. That does have the slight weakness of solder joints, but it has the huge advantage of solid mechanical connections to the front and back, and the ease with which even the most unskilled electro-labourer can provide a good connection to that common earth.
@@bigclivedotcom Hi Clive, it's in 61347-1:2015, clause 9.4 (called by the control gear standard, 61347-2-7) - "earthing of the luminaire or other equipment via the built-in control gear is not allowed" - I know what you are saying but that's been a European standard requirement (based on IEC standard) since 2013... out of interest I looked back at older version of the standard, it was added in amendment 2 in 2013, I.e. 61347-1:2008+A2:2013. Before that it was not really clear if it was permitted or not, 61347-1:2001+A1:2008 simply says if a control gear had and earthing terminal it should only be used for earthing the control gear, but earthing of the control gear via a fixing to earthed metal was allowed, it wasnt clear and im guessing the OSM-LUM, ETICS or another comittee raised this and had it clarified in the A2 amendment.
BSI Tester, wonder if this was designed/ sold before or after that standard was withdrawn. The design is also an example of cost reduction ( & maybe waste reduction)If you were the designer you might argue that the long PCB is just the gear tray and part of the luminaire and therefore luminaire is earthed by the gear tray connector block. Problem is they have then intergrated the control gear in to the gear tray. If they would have put the control gear on a separate pcb then the controlgear would then be powered by the luminaire gear tray, resulting in a compliant design. But the overall construction wouldn’t have fundamentally changed. And if anything more material is wasted with the potential to end up in a landfill. I love and loath standards....
Interesting that the LED versions of these emergency lights would deliberately use smaller capacity batteries than the older fluorescent tube designs. That doesn't seem necessary, for several reasons: First, there isn't exactly a shortage of empty space inside the box, especially since the LED strip takes up less space than even a CFL bulb. Second, the electronics required to make a fluorescent tube work from battery power are surely more complicated and expensive. Whereas running LED strips from batteries is much easier, especially with lithium-ion cells, which produce almost the nominal voltage for LEDs anyway. So my question is: Why not fit these devices with much larger capacity batteries? It's not going to cost much more to do, and then the light would last far longer than the 3 hour minimum required by regulations. After all, there's nothing in those regulations that specifies a maximum time for the emergency light to stay lit, is there? A bigger battery would compensate for any memory effect or loss of charging efficiency, giving the whole thing a far greater lifetime before needing replacement.
@@bsitester4940 Slight design change would be needed for the step up converter, unless it is voltage referenced anyway. With the higher voltage, the transformer squealing would probably be gone, at least.
You're certainly getting a lot of fresh air for your money there ;) Still, I guess the size is based on the original emergency lighting units; which would have had to contain a fluorescent tube with its drive circuit, a sealed lead-acid battery and a hefty transformer to power it all. If there was life left in the old tooling, it might be more economical to keep churning out the old housings. No doubt there are cheap clones out there, with a Lithium ion cell and a less sophisticated microcontroller crammed into a plastic housing ..... Not sure I'd be so keen to save a few quid on fire exit signs in a multi-million pound factory, especially with a risk of the fire exits themselves being self-testing .....
when you put it into maintained mode i could hear a 17khz squeal... so you might want to check into that if you plan on using it, the Power supply should not be making audible noises in the Human hearing range...
Would you please do a video of creating some electronics? I'd love to know how you would design some things. One thing I'd love to see how you would design is a ac to 5V dc for charging electronics. A project I had tried and failed to design is a random tone generator. Running on a dc battery that could be hidden and it would chooses a random time interval and tone pitch. It would be a great April fools prank.
There are some design videos up, including laying out circuit boards, construction, etc. I wouldn't recommend a beginner rolling their own mains powered gear, since the penalties for getting it wrong include destroying your expensive gear, fire, and electrocution.
@Branden Allen go look at David Watts channel, he made a little battery operated "Cricket" that you could hide and at random intervals it starts to "chirp" and then stops before ya can find the bugger, then it does it again a bit later......who you trying to committed ?
Having serviced emergency lighting for years, I'm now informed that the regs have changed again. In the event of a fitting not reaching it's full 3 hour duration because the battery has aged, instead of changing the battery, one must replace the entire fitting, or gear tray if it's architectural or ornamental. If you replace just the battery, you've to let it charge for 24 - 48 hours and then return and repeat the 3 hour duration test, the cost of which is greater than the new fitting. Not very environmentally friendly IMO.
James Neave - in my workplace one of our past supervisors used to go around testing the emergency lights. So some are tested. Not seen anyone test them recently though.
I run a maintenance business (only a little one man band thing) and one of the first things I do when I take on a new contract is to ask for the emergency light/sign and fire system test logs. The usual answer is 'what logs'?
Most modern ones are connected to what is known as an ATS system, using DALI, Wifi and the like or similar, gone are the days where someone has to walk around manually checkin these.... older installations... probably not until someone notices a tiny red LED in the winter months on the case.
@@bsitester4940 That may be true for larger installations but the sort of client I tend to work for, small charity, church+hall types, it's very much still a person with a fish-key. Actually in the hostel environment it's a great thing for 'service user engagement'. It's the sort of thing a more trustworthy service user can be tasked with doing which goes towards building self esteem etc. Something the modern automated world is not very good at.
I will guess that this was made by an old school engeer. Or at least by someone that did not sleep in class. As always, , keep up the good work. And thanks.
I'm guessing you're looking for an electronic HID ballast. The old-style ones are just a core-and-coil transformer object (iron core and lots of copper windings), generally a capacitor (paper in oil, probably), and perhaps an ignitor/starter. The new ones are much more interesting, dealing with a fair amount of power and voltage with solid state electronics.
How refreshing to see what appears to be a well-designed and manufactured item.
Thanks, Clive.
Harold Smith (just joking) did you made the design 😎
Well designed and manufactured items are no fun. No random electric shocks or explosions... massive disappointment :P
Joop Terwijn
Nope.
I'm sure John Ward would have found something bad to say about it .....
Another really enthusiastic TH-cam video blogger is AvE ..... if you can understand what he's saying ;)
This is a British Exit Sign. It's probably 95% Chinese components. Usually found mounted above doors secured with thick chains and a big padlock.
the irony if that finger guard wasn't over the mains circuits- "Well how did he have the accident? ; Installing a safety sign"
This is glorious, been searching for "emergency lighting batteries 6" for a while now, and I think this has helped. Have you heard people talk about - Eenseh Unthinkable Expediency - (search on google )?
It is a good one off product for discovering how to get emergency light without relying on batteries minus the headache. Ive heard some super things about it and my friend got great results with it.✅
It's nice to see good designs occasionally, for sake of comparison. (Subject to availability, of course!)
+
yes. Good design needn't cost any more than bad design
My dad was a electrical engineer at a different EU/Dutch emergency lightning company. Some of them even have internal battery heater to keep the battery alive outside in the cold
@@mans_z1177 jep!
In the 90s I was working at a cinema as a machinist, we had 24V exit signs, two lead acid batteries in the machineroom was the powersource. The Cinema was built 1923 and using the same cables and some patches, it was a struggle to get the signs working at all. And some directors slipped a note in the box with the 35mm film with instructions how to show the movie. It was quite common with a schedule (raider) how to show the movie, this music should be played before the movie and this after. I remember Jurassic Park, "Please turn up Dolby effects volume, turn exit lights off".
Steve Henriksson hey that’s really cool. I’ve seen a copy online, of the notes Kubrick sent out with the Shining.
Can we hack it into a disco exit light. Yes yes we can. Another fine video sir.
All that would require is a bit of the USB powered remote control RGB LED tape.
'it will charge up when the power's off'
excellent, now that is ultimately what we're looking for.
cheers clive!
I'll send it to Electroboom for evaluation immediately. He loves over-unity stuff.
I do like electronics and taking things to bits but for some time now I come here just to be calmed down by the voice of Clive :) Great educational, fun and therapeutic value!
I originally found bigclive when I fell down the rabbit hole of TH-cam but since then I am hooked on his videos. Not only are his videos informational and enjoyable but his voice is nice to listen to.
I used a similar sign to show the number of our house. Just replaced the graphic with a black vinyl with the number 16 cut out :D
Now that's a cool idea for repurposing it Clive :)
Emergency lights are fun to play with, I pulled an 8w tubed one from a skip a few years back, well-toasted inside but still worked, but I gutted it anyway and filled the thing with LED tape and glued a 12v SLA battery into it, and then earlier this year found an NIB LED one in a charity shop for a fiver, complete with battery pack, and that too I've thrown some LED strips into to make it useful as a regular bulkhead light with the option of backup light... :)
These newfangled fancytype signs are no fun anymore without the radioactive gas
I had an office in a facility that hadn't converted its exit since from Tritium. Part of the facility was used on weekends as an AirSoft play range. Some of those signs got shot out :( :( :(
@@patchvonbraun Because the gas is heavy hydrogen, the mean velocity of the molecules at room temperature is very high and the diffusion rate of the gas in air is extremely high. It is virtually impossible to experience even a measurable dose of beta radiation from tritium when one of these signs is broken, let alone a dose dangerous to health. There have never been any recorded cases of significant health impacts to anyone as a result of their breakage so far as I am aware.
That looks like a very well thought out piece of kit - much better than the cheapo Chinese stuff from eBay! I bet it's somewhat more expensive as well...
I kind of fear that the actual price difference ( not to mention TCO) between a Chinesium one and a proper one is not that great on the manufacturing end.
The other day my son and I were aimlessly wondering around Walmart, in the Christmas lights section we found one of the "fake candle lights" that Clive took apart months ago. I'll wait til after Christmas and see if they go on clearance. There were $4 american dollhairs. I think the equivalent that Clive took to bits back then was 7 bucks. I'm betting same guts on the inside. My point being not much of a parts difference.
Watching too much of AvE, you two, I see !!!
@@BPantherPink There does seem to be a fair amount of fellow travelers between this channel, AvE, and EEVBlog. Can't imagine why. :D
@@BPantherPink Impossible!
Why didnt't they put the maintained-nonmaintained legend on the silkscreen instead of a label? And why do they need a crystal?
My guesses;
1. For localisation, just slap on a label of the language you're selling.
2. Crystal is for timing, the 30 sec test, the 3 hour test, and the weekly/yearly schedule of said tests.
My guess is that the crystal is for the self test timer.
The switch may be a general purpose option switch. Maybe they envisioned other uses in different markets. The crystal is probably for timing accuracy in the self test routines.
@@eliaschnl
The internal oscillator of a micro controller should be easily accurate enough for all testing purposes. Typically they are within +-1 or 2% worst case. Does it really matter when a 3h test runs 2 minutes longer or shorter?
@@superdau Depends on what kind of MCU. Mayybe it doesn't even have a built-in oscillator
I see a problem with these devices and the description of them. They have a fairly accurate timer (I assume less then 20ppm error for that crystal) and after power-on they start self tests at regular intervals. So if you have more then one of them powered up at the same time, they will run the 3h self test at the same time. If the clocks go out of sync, there is still the key switch mentioned around 3:37 to synchronize them again.
Now with these parallel 3h self tests, all emergency lights will drain their battery at the same time. If a real emergency happens after that 3h self test, the battery will be empty.
A solution would be some sort of random value added to the self test interval or some redundancy (two batteries, each capable of powering it for 3h).
Just some thoughts.
That's the same scenario as annual EM testing on any lighting circuit. It's a roll of the dice, the regs say they should be tested at "a time of minimum risk" but is that through the day when there's natural light (in some buildings) or through the night when there's less people put at risk (in some buildings). They then have to obviously charge back up just like this one. I do 2 floors in our building, the floors are shared among the shift sparks, and test monthly in sections, around 15mins per section. Then the annual test comes along and I have to do a quarter of a floor per 3hrs in a night, obviously risking failure due to actually running the batteries to death (very common) or some power failure emergency happens before they're properly recharged (far less common).
You’re thoughts are right. I can tell you that “professional” auto test emergency lighting does indeed have randomisation of duration tests to ensure em lighting isn’t compromised as a result of synchronised tests. More advanced systems will allow remote monitoring/ triggering of tests which can be used to schedule tests at specific times on an individual basis.
Randomisation of the duration of the test wouldn't be the right thing to do. The duration of the test must be 3h and the interval between tests must be less then one year. So the only variable is the interval between tests and the random value must be subtracted from the year to make sure the interval isn't longer then one year.
Another problem with small embedded systems is a source of true randomness. Most of the time there is none and they are completely deterministic.
Today in the office I had to press the test-buttons of similar emergency exit signs, just to see if they behave in the same way as the one shown in the video. It was exactly the same, but I didn't wait for the long test to finish. ;)
zvpunry No you misunderstand. They Random seed the start date of the duration tests, not the test length, then 3hr tests still occur every 12 months, they just won’t happen all at the same time.
I had to read it again and you are right, this would prevent the tests being started at the same time.
I somehow read "randomisation of duration tests" as "randomisation of _the_ duration _of the_ tests".
A big upgrade from the old signs. I like this one. Have changed out many in Hotels & Banks & such.
I took apart an older-ish (1990's I think) emergency exit sign before. It's the old US type with the red letters. It had a bunch of very bright red LEDs. Battery was NiMh. The coolest part is the power transformer! It has a 277V winding, and a tap for 120V. That way it can operate off of single-phase or three-phase power systems.
P.S. I remember a few years ago, some emergency lights were recalled for ... catching fire! LOL, fail.
That flip-out mounting bracket is simple and ingenious!
Up until a couple of weeks ago, (when I was laid off) I installed these as my job here in the states. In America the test is not 3 hours, but 90 minutes I guess if somebody's in an emergency situation for longer than 90 minutes without power they're a goner.
I like the design of this, it's much nicer than the ones we typically see here
It seems like they should really incorporate some sort of clock to do a self test automatically and eliminate some of the user error. It doesn't even have to be an accurate timer, just something like "must auto self test monthly, must be manually tested annually" and then the unit just auto self tests ~twice a month, or weekly, or even daily, etc...
Edit: oh, apparently it does. LOL
Sounds nice. We found the emergency lights at work were dead when a power outage happened and most were non-functional including 2 of the 3 on the stairs and all at the landing outside the stairs.
But they replaced them...no need to turn off power, just get sparky to twist some wires up quick live.
We have many of these kind of signs in corridors and stairways of the apartment. It's pretty darn annoying especially during night time as the buzzer is quite loud and high-pitched.
You know what's handy? Those emergency bug lights. You bust the little KO at the top, put a connector in there and bam throw an SO cord on the end or something. Battery packs last a good 4 hours or so. I wired one up for the grandma and if it can be plugged in somewhere handy it's a great for temp lighting immediately after power failure while old folks find their trusty flashlights.
Thanks Big Clive 😊👍
Can you make video and elaborate on this power factor / apparent power . tell us in detail what it really means. is it the power companies charging what they want to charge for electricity and not what we actually using? is this extortion and is this right.
It's not extortion. The new meters can measure current to voltage relationship in a programmable manner. It means they can measure VA as opposed to W. That means that certain items in your home like LED lamps, time switches, microwave and fridge controls, interference suppressors and other low power equipment that relies on simple power supplies will potentially cost between 2 and 20 times what they did before in yearly electricity consumption. Their power draw is low compared to the primary electrical heating loads, but it could still add a lot to a yearly bill.
Yes I still find it hard to grasp too.
Does it take more energy at the power company? Would a ups be empty sooner? Can we easily correct it at home?
Reactive energy (VA) is rarely billed to consumers. If it is, yes, you can correct it. VA is billed to companies/factories, and they have "capacitor batteries" (battery in the meaning of "a bunch of" as opposed to "a power source") to correct the factor and bring back the VA consumption close to the Watt consumption.
You can DIY if you know stuff about electronics.
But the first step you gotta do is ask your electricity company bill you based on the watts or VA you consume. If they no not bill you on reactive energy then you don't have to worry about your electronics taking 20 times more VA.
Self resetting fuse to protect it from surges caused when powercuts are restored.
more likely the MOV is for surges and the PTC thermistor (Self resetting fuse) is used for short circuit protection
@@DazzaDirect or overcurrent for when the "junktronics" fail and overload :))
Yet another interesting video but I'll never get comfortable looking at the flashing readout on the Hopi meter.
Thanks Clive. With some new batteries it could be a 'keeper'.
Yes... very intriguing and very smart. "Just one monent please." Yes... very smart indeed. 🤣
Wow, I have a new appreciation of these now. I just assumed it was a light, in a box...
Wow! Quite a bit more complex than I'd imagined. Very interesting!
I wonder how long the LED's will last continuously operated?
It's a shame we haven't got to the point where we can create white LED's that don't fade over time. Quite often you see them turn to a dull, pale purple.
Might be interesting to see if a manufacturer decide to create small 12" LED tubes for this kind of application.
But I guess by the time the LED's degenerate, it will be way beyond the time to replace the battery.
I had a 10w cealing light which just started flickering
Dan Coulson
Does anyone know if the purplish light said to be emitted by end-of-life phosphor LEDs is UV light? I.E., perhaps the junction was designed to emit UV to energize the phosphor, and continues to do so, but the phosphor becomes incapable of converting it to white light.
If yes, is the emitted UV dangerous/harmful?
@@haroldsmith45302 it cannot possibly be harmful first because of the low output, second because it's all blocked by the housing. Also, UV is not a visible light so I doubt that's the case.
Eemergency lights have to be certified in the UK, and elsewhere in the world, part of that certification involves what is known as performance of LED modules, LED modules have to comply seperately and are tested for RG (Risk group, usually RG-0 or RG-1) ,Blue Light and UV, the UV is very low and not harmful, even at end of life where it has considerably dropped.
Harold Smith Only the very earliest white phosphor LEDs used UV - and that was well before incorporating them into light bulb fixtures became a thing. Aside from those very, very, rare early phosphor white LEDs, all white phosphor LEDs use blue light. Otherwise they can produce white LEDs that do not diminish over time, provided they are run at conservative power levels with ample coiling, by using actual red, green, and blue LEDs instead of phosphors, but they are not as efficient and cost more to produce and run per lumen of light than the more common phosphor white LEDs. But for signage like this it would be very practical and would allow for simple battery replacement. Unfortunately, we have become a throw-away society of late!
Hey Clive I have a 18v ni cad drill battery and I want to convert it to lithiam ion, and I have lots of 18650s. I know I would have to use 5 cells which would mean 20v, I'm just wondering how can I charge it safely and know when the batteries need charging. HELP??
Look into balance charging systems (hobby chargers). I use a 4s lipo battery in my quadcopter it has a wire for each connection and can drain/charge any battery in the pack simultaneously. you would need a 5s capable charger for 5 cells (I've seen 8s chargers i'm sure). Inside some of the battery packs i've stripped for parts have what looks like balance charging built into the pcb. I hope this points you in the right direction.
#samfisher, look at TP4056 chip, packs of 5 on ebay for £1 , charge and then put in a holder or get a 5S charger for about the same price on ebay too, @Julian Ilett #JulianIlett has a few videos and @Adam Welch #AdamWelch #SolarShed great starting point video HTH th-cam.com/video/RJ8fYrodjow/w-d-xo.html
No offense intended, but if you are needing to ask these questions then this may not be the right project for you just from a safety perspective. Getting things wrong with a Li-ion substitute can burn a house down whereas that same mistake with NiCd or NiMH batteries just ruins the batteries.
The charging requirements of Lithium Ion batteries are very exacting compared to those of the NiCd and NiMH batteries they will be replacing. On top of that it is not as simple as just swapping out 18650s for the existing cells either as your new Li-ion batteries must also be rated for the discharge rate of the intended application and power tools can have rather high discharge currents (some can draw in excess of 25A - or up to about 13C for 2Ah rated cells) and that means that the battery chemistry must be matched to the intended use (in other words, low discharge rate laptop batteries are not necessarily an acceptable substitute in a cordless drill type application, for example, as not all Li-ion chemistries are the same plus some chemistries, like cobalt Li-ion, are more prone to fire than others).
If you do tackle this project regardless, you are going to need battery protection circuits that can safely handle rather high sustained discharge rates - some power tools can draw upwards of 20-25A - and that are designed to disconnect the power from the tool if the tool draws too much power, the battery pack gets too hot, or if the battery voltage falls below about 3.2V/cell under load (over discharging Li-ion cells is not safe either). The battery protection must also disconnect from the charger if any one cell’s voltage ever exceeds more than a few hundredths of a volt greater than 4.2V (for most Lithium Ion chemistries) as much beyond 4.25V and the risk of fire becomes unacceptable - hence the razor edge in Li-ion batteries where we often want to charge them to 4.2V/cell but just a few hundredths more and they can catch fire! That is also why charge balancing becomes critical during charging when you have multiple cells in series because not every cell will charge at the same rate nor by the same amount without active balancing and why the battery protection circuit should automatically disconnect the battery from the charger if any one cell’s voltage rises too high as that means that either the charger has failed or the balancing circuit has failed. You will also want to use Li-ion cell’s that are similarly matched in terms of actual capacity and impedance (equivalent series resistance) so that they charge and discharge more or less at the same rate to one another - something to be wary of if using otherwise random 18650s from multiple sources or if using used batteries that may no longer deliver their originally stated capacity.
About the simplest way to get all of that is to buy a Ryobi 18V One+ Lithium battery and charger as their 5-cell batteries are about 1.8-2A, depending upon the model, (they also sell larger 4A 10 cell and 6A 15 cell batteries) and usually sell as a pair of batteries for about $50 or singly with a proper charger, but that gives you a pretty well engineered battery plus charging system and does not depend upon any smarts in the cordless tool to provide protection. Otherwise you may have to select from systems geared towards RC drone type applications to get the higher power handling needed. Also be aware of the fact that Ali-ion cells tend to maintain their voltage much better than NiCd or NiMH under high draw, such as heavy use of a power tool or a stalled motor, and that fact can potentially destroy a converted power tool if there is nothing to automatically disconnect the power (either a properly tuned battery protection circuit or a fuse) since the Li-ion batteries will supply far more power to the motor under such loads than the originally intended batteries ever could - at best motor speed controllers burn out quickly if stalled or in heavy use, or, at worst, the motor or brushes can self destruct if power is not very quickly interrupted.
However you go, I wish you all the best.
@@ethanpoole3443 I just wanted some ideas from Clive that all. I know what I'm doing
A simple "Thank you" would have sufficed.
but if there's an emergency after the full 3 hour test has ran, it's possible the light wont last very long into the actual emergency
Very good teardown Mr. Clive....
OK, what does the "other" red switch (on the opposite end of the maintained switch) do? As they say, "inquiring minds want to know".
That turns the beeper on or off.
Looking forwards to this. I used to design the ones that drove flourescent lamps from NiCad batteries from 8W to 100W.
One day Clive will do the finger test on a cap and will be shocked hehe
It's happened before. That's part of the excitement.
If I recall the video I saw was with a plug that he promptly dropped saying " _fucking hell_ " don't remember which one exactly though!
*edit* It might have been one of the bug zapper videos
@@ollieb9875 I had a cheap "tennis racquet" bug zapper. My 40 year old son asked what is that, I said hold your finger out and showed him. Fun times.
@@dsloop3907 evil! Hah hah 😱🤣😈 justified. :)
across one finger or hand is FAR better than a big hit from arm to arm or arm to other part of body ;)
ive got a bunch of these "through hole" rather than SMD with fluorescent tubes all working but failed 3C Ni-Cad cells, any project ideas to re-purpose or upcycle people ?
Dazza Direct New cells? Single LiPo instead of 3 NiMH with different charge control? 2 PbAcid cells?
It would have been nice to know the buzzer was there for the visually impaired or in case thick smoke blankets the room. All in all it’s a well thought out design.
No it's not going when there is a blackout. That would create panick, there's rules (no blinking)
Great video Clive very nice emergency light very well made
I didn't know where to post this, but i have a question about trying to find some info on some components.
There's a whine from it when you have it plugged in at the end. High frequency too..
Codingale lol I normally don’t look at the comments but I wondered if anyone else noticed it too. I wonder what makes the high pitch noise. Those old cathode ray tube televisions are a noisy thing too!
Here’s a question unrelated to this specific device, but very much related to modern tech and servicing. I’ve often wondered: When did tech evolve to the point (and with what devices) that no single human was able to understand it’s circuitry/logic from beginning to end? For example: I once worked in consumer electronics repair, and did component level troubleshooting. At that time, one person (instructor, tech rep, etc) could walk you through every bit of circuitry from the antenna to the (then) CRT. With the advent of IC’s, and CAD, I suspect that ability came to an end. But about when exactly?
There are still products and people who understand the full thing fully. But so much electronic equipment relies on software these days that there is a distinct divide between the departments that design the hardware and software. Maintenance has become mostly board swapping with a minority of engineers capable of doing component level fixes on older equipment.
Hello! Thank you so much for this very informational video!
I was looking for support as I have an exit sign that blinks the LEDs and I wanted to find the solution.
Is there anyone that might have an idea of what the problem could be? Maybe the batteries are getting old? I can't tell how old they are.
Ive tried the short test and it seems to be ok. No red led was activated. And if I will run the long test will the "bip" you are talking about happen from the sign or from the fire allarm? I live in a community and I'd love not to create panic. And as is a 3h test I might not be there when the allarm sets off.
Thank you very much
It's a good idea to change emergency lights after at most ten years as they degrade over time. You may be able to get a replacement rechargeable battery pack for the light, but the circuitry itself might be aging.
That's an awesome power connector. I haven't seen that used here in the US yet.
If you search my videos for the word Cliff you'll find a video about it.
Just wondering whether you ever wanted to put these things back together after disassembling and probably sell them.
I usually reassemble and test them and then store them or give them to local friends.
Are you sure the unused connector pads on LED strip is meant for a IR receiver? Couldn't it just be a light sensor for those centrally managed emergency lights (more advanced) which can also self-test the LEDs by checking for light output, ergo it turns on the lights, then checks for feedback, turns off the light, checks for non-feedback, and then repeats the cycle a few times (possibly with random intervals) to really be sure the sign Actually gives light output.
It has three connections and the style of an IR sensor.
@@bigclivedotcom I doubt a IR sensor would be useful in that location. There is light sensors with 3 connectors that "look like" an IR sensor, but has a clear lens instead of black lens, to let in visible light too. IR-sensor has VCC, OUT and GND, and same for a light sensor. They work exactly like an IR sensor but with the difference it reacts on visible light instead.
Can you make a tutorial on diagnosing all possible thing that can go wrong?
What would have been the harm in retaining the D-sized batteries, to give it a longer run-time?
Weight to ship those units, price for bulkier batteries, and lack of interest from consumers. Those lights are not meant to supply a failing power supply but are mandatory, period.
No point in offering "longer run time" when the customer only want those units to obey to the minimal specifications.
Odd that they used a “switch selection” sticker when they could have saved the time and cost and just printed that info on the PCB.
Why kind of chip did they use?
Hi Clive. I have a question or two... I need some help with a project I am working on and from what I’ve seen from your TH-cam vid, you know what you are talking about! I am building a small electronic switch board where by a computer programme will switch on and off switches when prompted. However, I am in the very early stages and I have no idea what these small electronic switches are call nor do I know yet the products that I will need. The comp programme will be written by a friend of mine, and I am doing the hardware side of things. Can you help, or guide me in the right direction? Regards
There are a few options. You can use the old-school electromechanical approach and switch your loads with relays. A more modern approach is "solid state relays", which are quiet and long-lasting because they contain no moving parts (I'm guessing this is what you're looking for). The devices typically used inside solid state relays are a type of thyristor known as a "triac".
The MOV is after the common mode filtering? Odd...
I find nearly all batteries are not marked :(
I carried a purple Sharpie with me to mark mine,
in Austria the emergency lights must always light up. No matter if it makes sense or not. also at events, in the cinema or where it still bothers.
we have a load of these in our building and they all flicker and I have bought the identical battery packs for them and that has not seemed to solve anything, they are the same as the one here you are using (channel) , any ideas? Note: they have been in the building for probably 5 years and set to maintained (on 24/7)
Probably the leds are now wearing out
I would recommend replacing them all with brand new units and only use them in maintained mode if they are hard to see and non maintained of the room is well lit
I was curious what brand of NiMh cell is in the shrink wrap .
You didn't say anything about the batteries. Are they a known brand? Are they "special" for that purpose? Could the light be refurbished or would that be "against the rules"?
You can get new battery packs from the supplier. They should be standard industrial NiCd cells.
@@bigclivedotcom The batteries for luminaries have to have a declaration of conformance and a declared 4-year life cycle, min max charge rates etc, hence why regular off the shelf batteries are not used, only certain big battery manufacturers supply that such as SAFT etc.. as it's classed as a life-safety system
Those twist-clip lighting sockets... why are they not a standard thing in houses? That way "unskilled operatives" could change their light fixtures without needing to poke at the ceiling with screwdrivers while stood on a dining room chair in the dark.
In some houses they are standard.
@@bigclivedotcom I feel they may become a feature in my new house (once it's built) to replace the generic ceiling roses our homes have, and those terrible plastic efforts that IKEA supply on their ceiling lights. I assume the whole assembly can support the weight of a light fitting?
**looks closer to see battery** THAT'S IT?! They might as well be little button cells! The heck is that?!
Coaster Labs When Code only requires a certain number of hours of runtime then that is what these fixtures will be built to reliably deliver. LEDs have allowed designers to greatly reduce battery size since LEDs can deliver the same lumens of usable light for just 10% of the amp-hour rating the old incandescent bulbs delivered and they even save a good bit versus fluorescent bulb fixtures since they don’t need a high voltage inverted stage anymore.
Looked quite simple from above...then you flipped it over...some real design work in there
@bigclivedotcom does that one use a 3.6v led strip?
The LEDs all appear to be in parallel with a resistor each.
These twisting connectors on the ceiling are very typical in Japanese householde.
man he sounds like scott manly i love it
cool I have one of the old ones with a couple of D cells and a little 6" flowery scent light had it for when I had a home cinema still have the light fitting somewhere batteries must be dead by now although I did disconnect them !
I assume, given that it is well designed and engineered, that it is made somewhere civilised?
(semi)out of context
i think that the concept of political correctness that you people are believing nowdays is misunderstood (or driven that way), what i knew PC is was stating things like:
"our opponents are wrong"
"everybody has his point of view"
"i do this as a job and i have to do my job well of course"
"we'll solve every problem"
"that's my idealogy"
"i love my country"
"what about the kids?!?!?!?!"
instead of:
"i think that our opponents are there pretending to care of something instead they just want power"
"there are no other point of views, the rest is crazy bullshit"
"i want the world a better place and i'll accept the wage bcs i'm not awkwardly miserable"
"you people don't have the farest idea of what problems to solve because you are selfish and ignorant, we do"
"mine is not an ideaology, it's that the world that sucks and we all care about this"
"there is no meaning in the concept of country or race or whatever, you don't want criminals as neighbours and other stuff, i support that, but that's a non-existing point"
"violence and war is just revengefull mansloughter, intelligence works way better for that"
etc.
beeing "correct" is NOT beeing "political correct"... and if you don't want to be correct i don't know why we should listen to you
any chance of having this in English? I really think you are colour blind!
@@doktoruzo
i've been indirectly accused of that, i still don't understand that point, weak argument btw, like the difference between "colour" and "color"
i'm not english, sorry... weak argument btw
bye
lol, yes. It is in fact 'colour' as British English came before American English.
There is help available for your Daltonism/Protanopia.
@@doktoruzo
alright, funny story:
went to the optician asking for daltonism glasses (i have 10\10 anyways), the waitress did a silly laugh like i was crazy and told me to wait for the technician, the technician came and started to vomit a tsunami of nonsense about special expensive test that are performed "in the city" and bla bla... say that!! you don't know the existence of such glassess, say that!! (still not tryed those yet)
but i think that this has little to do with my political joke, like the other subject about "color blindness" that i refuse to accept, i mean forgiving people for what they do or don't because they are "like this" or "like that"... never seen sense in that, but seen a lot of times people that refuse to grow up while becoming bigger in requests, that can't become MY problem, sorry, and this "poetry" doesn't enchant me, never did
"It would be great if it did charge up with the power off"
It would probably cause quite a few physicists to go insane.
I love your videos. I was wondering did u made any video about that 220v switch that i see in every video of yours?
Cliff quick test. Yes, there is a video if you search my channel for those keywords.
@@bigclivedotcom Nice! I will see it tonight. Thank you! Keep it up
I love old British industrial components. What company built that ...Clive
He said the company and even gave the website.
@@misterhat5823 who was mister pat
Channel safety systems.
Love your work!
I love watching your channel I sent you some milk and cookie money (not much but times are hard)
Thanks. It's greatly appreciated.
There's a low hum I can hear in the background throughout most of this, don't notice it on any of your other recent videos!
Years ago, when the smoke detectors were the "new" in thing, I was working on a Police Department. My partner and I received a call to respond to a residence to see the lady about a bird in her house (we got all sorts of weird calls) When we arrived the very old lady let us in her home, and asked us to find the bird that was chirping, as it had kept her awake all night the night before, and bothered her all day. Well we checked her home for birds and bats (bats were a constant problem in that neighborhood) but could not find any, then on the way out of the disappointed old lady's home, I noticed a new fangled smoke detector over the doorway, every time the bird chirped, the light flashed on the detector. Problem solved, we left her unprotected, but in a quiet home with instructions to replace the battery with a new one in the morning.
Is it just me or maintained mode makes a high pitched sound? (at the end of the video) Isn't this a bad sign for EMI?
I didn't hear that. It may have been the inductor in the boost circuit.
@@bigclivedotcom Alright, thanks for your answer Clive :-)
The question is why dont they use standard battery's seems very wasteful to throw away the whole unit
Shouldn't a maintained E light have a switched live as well as a permanent live or is this intended to be always on in maintained mode?
You get lights that have a second mains input for use as switched maintained lights. The modern versions usually use a resistor, rectifier and optoisolator to detect the other feed.
This is standard kit; nothing special here. I'm glad Clive has his knowledge on these and their tests correct.
Yay! Nice video Clive! I'm afraid this would not pass scrutiny to current standards. Earthing on the control gear before the metal enclosure is no longer allowed as it relies on the PCB tracking to maintain the earth continuity to the case.. which is no longer permitted.. it's picky but that's the new requirement... causing headaches already for manufacturers lol... New stuff needs to earth firstly on the enclosure if of metal then on to the control gear :) Can't remember which standard its in, these are done to a few.. normally 60598-2-22 and 60598-1 is the lumianire as a whole, and the control gear is 61347-2-7 and 61347-2-13... 62034 for the auto test parts compliance.... not including LED Blue light and RG group and CR contrast ratio for the signage (Which seems at least to be ISO compliant!) a lot involved in testing these. You don't say if the manufacturer of this actually has it certified or approved... i wonder? By current technologies and designs.. this is rather a basic unit... many now are DALI, Wifi and IR smart enabled IoT lights.. you'd be amazed at the tech in some of the "advanced" emergency lights nowdays. Emergency lights don't all have to run for 3 hours... there is usually a marking something like "X 1 A**D*** 180" ----- X being Self contained, 1 being Maintained, the letters various features and the last number is the duration in minutes, some emergency lights are only 60, 120 etc... its whatever the luminaire is rated to, the standards do not say "Must be 3 hours".
If it was relying on a track to a round pad on a support pillar I'd be concerned, but in this instance there is a large island of copper shunting the three earth connections together and effectively making the connector into a commoning block. That does have the slight weakness of solder joints, but it has the huge advantage of solid mechanical connections to the front and back, and the ease with which even the most unskilled electro-labourer can provide a good connection to that common earth.
@@bigclivedotcom Hi Clive, it's in 61347-1:2015, clause 9.4 (called by the control gear standard, 61347-2-7) - "earthing of the luminaire or other equipment via the built-in control gear is not allowed" - I know what you are saying but that's been a European standard requirement (based on IEC standard) since 2013... out of interest I looked back at older version of the standard, it was added in amendment 2 in 2013, I.e. 61347-1:2008+A2:2013. Before that it was not really clear if it was permitted or not, 61347-1:2001+A1:2008 simply says if a control gear had and earthing terminal it should only be used for earthing the control gear, but earthing of the control gear via a fixing to earthed metal was allowed, it wasnt clear and im guessing the OSM-LUM, ETICS or another comittee raised this and had it clarified in the A2 amendment.
BSI Tester, wonder if this was designed/ sold before or after that standard was withdrawn.
The design is also an example of cost reduction ( & maybe waste reduction)If you were the designer you might argue that the long PCB is just the gear tray and part of the luminaire and therefore luminaire is earthed by the gear tray connector block. Problem is they have then intergrated the control gear in to the gear tray. If they would have put the control gear on a separate pcb then the controlgear would then be powered by the luminaire gear tray, resulting in a compliant design. But the overall construction wouldn’t have fundamentally changed. And if anything more material is wasted with the potential to end up in a landfill. I love and loath standards....
Somewhat down the river, under the bridge and out to sea from first!
Got an ad for an emergency light subscription service before this.
Interesting that the LED versions of these emergency lights would deliberately use smaller capacity batteries than the older fluorescent tube designs. That doesn't seem necessary, for several reasons: First, there isn't exactly a shortage of empty space inside the box, especially since the LED strip takes up less space than even a CFL bulb. Second, the electronics required to make a fluorescent tube work from battery power are surely more complicated and expensive. Whereas running LED strips from batteries is much easier, especially with lithium-ion cells, which produce almost the nominal voltage for LEDs anyway.
So my question is: Why not fit these devices with much larger capacity batteries? It's not going to cost much more to do, and then the light would last far longer than the 3 hour minimum required by regulations. After all, there's nothing in those regulations that specifies a maximum time for the emergency light to stay lit, is there? A bigger battery would compensate for any memory effect or loss of charging efficiency, giving the whole thing a far greater lifetime before needing replacement.
After 2 pints this video became more interesting than normal. I shall investgated further the relationship between TH-cam and alcohol further.
My channel is best enjoyed with a drink.
That's not a finger guard- that's a spider house. It's built too well otherwise, so the manufacturer is hoping on a little 'accidental' insect damage.
Can you just replace the battery pack with two common aa batteries in series?
They would have to be NiCd cells for an application like this.
So what is the most complex thing you’ve reverse engineered?
A flight simulator ride. I built a new video interface for it.
Red Bull Gives You Wings. LOL
the chip in the primary side reminds me a TOP220Y
Isn't lipo cheaper than nimh? I would think new ones would use lipo instead of 2 nimh cells.
LiPo ones are just starting to trickle and be sold now, it's a case of proven technology with the old nicd etc ones
@@bsitester4940 Slight design change would be needed for the step up converter, unless it is voltage referenced anyway. With the higher voltage, the transformer squealing would probably be gone, at least.
You're certainly getting a lot of fresh air for your money there ;) Still, I guess the size is based on the original emergency lighting units; which would have had to contain a fluorescent tube with its drive circuit, a sealed lead-acid battery and a hefty transformer to power it all. If there was life left in the old tooling, it might be more economical to keep churning out the old housings.
No doubt there are cheap clones out there, with a Lithium ion cell and a less sophisticated microcontroller crammed into a plastic housing ..... Not sure I'd be so keen to save a few quid on fire exit signs in a multi-million pound factory, especially with a risk of the fire exits themselves being self-testing .....
Where do you get one from
I've maintained thousands of these bastards! Great to see they are getting better. Where did you get that little magnifier?
It's a common eBay LED magnifier from China. The hardest bit is finding the correct keywords for them.
when you put it into maintained mode i could hear a 17khz squeal... so you might want to check into that if you plan on using it, the Power supply should not be making audible noises in the Human hearing range...
now that will make a fine cod piece for you"
Would you please do a video of creating some electronics? I'd love to know how you would design some things. One thing I'd love to see how you would design is a ac to 5V dc for charging electronics. A project I had tried and failed to design is a random tone generator. Running on a dc battery that could be hidden and it would chooses a random time interval and tone pitch. It would be a great April fools prank.
There are some design videos up, including laying out circuit boards, construction, etc. I wouldn't recommend a beginner rolling their own mains powered gear, since the penalties for getting it wrong include destroying your expensive gear, fire, and electrocution.
@Branden Allen go look at David Watts channel, he made a little battery operated "Cricket" that you could hide and at random intervals it starts to "chirp" and then stops before ya can find the bugger, then it does it again a bit later......who you trying to committed ?
Having serviced emergency lighting for years, I'm now informed that the regs have changed again. In the event of a fitting not reaching it's full 3 hour duration because the battery has aged, instead of changing the battery, one must replace the entire fitting, or gear tray if it's architectural or ornamental. If you replace just the battery, you've to let it charge for 24 - 48 hours and then return and repeat the 3 hour duration test, the cost of which is greater than the new fitting. Not very environmentally friendly IMO.
On one hand it makes sense, but it does sound like an environmental disaster when they could standardise and swap the battery and LED strip in situ.
I wonder how many of these actually ever get tested.
James Neave - in my workplace one of our past supervisors used to go around testing the emergency lights. So some are tested. Not seen anyone test them recently though.
I run a maintenance business (only a little one man band thing) and one of the first things I do when I take on a new contract is to ask for the emergency light/sign and fire system test logs. The usual answer is 'what logs'?
Most modern ones are connected to what is known as an ATS system, using DALI, Wifi and the like or similar, gone are the days where someone has to walk around manually checkin these.... older installations... probably not until someone notices a tiny red LED in the winter months on the case.
@@bsitester4940 That may be true for larger installations but the sort of client I tend to work for, small charity, church+hall types, it's very much still a person with a fish-key.
Actually in the hostel environment it's a great thing for 'service user engagement'. It's the sort of thing a more trustworthy service user can be tasked with doing which goes towards building self esteem etc. Something the modern automated world is not very good at.
I will guess that this was made by an old school engeer.
Or at least by someone that did not sleep in class.
As always, , keep up the good work. And thanks.
didn't EU pass a law that all electrical things must have power factor correction module in them like ten years ago?
Interesting Video. Would you open a HID Ballast? That'd be a good video too.
I can do that. Possibly a high pressure sodium variant.
I'm guessing you're looking for an electronic HID ballast. The old-style ones are just a core-and-coil transformer object (iron core and lots of copper windings), generally a capacitor (paper in oil, probably), and perhaps an ignitor/starter. The new ones are much more interesting, dealing with a fair amount of power and voltage with solid state electronics.
Clive should have a podcast.
Exit signs? there on the way out aren't they? so 1970's