Just a quick note: The rules I lay out in this video are the strict rules for writing an Allemande. You are certainly allowed to bend some rules, as Baroque composers themselves did. Mostly this applies to A and B sections being of equal length. Some baroque composers do not follow this, but opt more for A and B sections being "roughly" the same length. And don’t forget to check out my own Baroque Suite in the description above!! 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
Beethoven wrote Allemande in triple time and in major keys compared to the Baroque's quadruple meter beginning on a quaver upbeat and conventionally in minor keys.
@@JuniorTan The Allemande of Beethoven’s time was a completely different dance altogether, and is more closely related to the Ländler and Waltz, thus the triple meter. I guess they just didn’t care to find a different name for it.
Always amusing to hear things like "If you follow these rules, you should have no trouble writing your own allemande" as someone who has not the slightest clue about music composition :D Great video as always
Thank you for making this video. I'm writing a Toccata and I'm deeply into an allemande right now and needed a few pointers. I've liked a subbed. I'm sure I'll check out all of your videos in time. Thanks again.
Hello, well done! Though... The Allemande was a fast dance first and became slower with time. As an video underlay you chose a fast Allemande, could be found quite on the tube. There is a very interesting essay about Bach's suites by Nikolaus Harnoncourt in "Die Geschichte der Musik", 1st volume: "Die Musik von den Anfängen bis zum Barock", Laaber 2001, pg. 377ff. Short summary: The "French Suite" which as an artificial form was created by Lully had a slow Overture, mixed up with an Allemande style part and an italian style part. The earlier Allemande did not have 2 parts with equal bar numbers, it differed quite a lot. In Bachs time, the Allemande was kind of a musical playing field since it was not danced any more. And: In the 17th century there was no regular canon for a suite at all, it was combined as anyone pleased...
this is exactly what i was looking for. i kid you not i struggle so hard to find videos on rules of composition of musical forms and as a person who never went to musical school i still want to learn all of that. most videos on these forms are just historical
I really loved this video and your baroque suite. I find that your channel always brings interesting insight and often neglected, but nonetheless important, information to the table in an extremely understandable fashion. A suggestion I think might be interesting would be do go through your method of composition. Obviously, everyone composes in a different way, but it would be intriguing to see how you do it! Again, thank you for these great videos!
Thanks for the comment, and I’m glad you’re enjoying my videos and the Suite. Also glad you understand my goal of not just putting out the same kind of content you‘d find on any other music education YT channel. To respond to your suggestion: A lot of my videos have been setting up certain themes to eventually get to that. Once this series is over and I finish a project I am currently working on I will be doing in a way what you and many others have been asking for, by explaining the process behind my current project.
An excellent video and great introduction to Bach's style of allemande-writing! Subscribed because I am very much looking forward to your future videos and hoping to see the one on the Courante very soon. I must mention, however that French suites very often being with a prelude (e.g.: every suite by DeMachy). Marais also sometimes has multiple preludes as well as fantasias or caprices before the allemande. Out of 36 suites of his only three are without a prelude [not counting the "Suite d'un Gout Etranger", as it isn't a typical suite. It does start with a marche, though], but they start with a fantasia or caprice. Earlier suites by French composers also have a tendency of an asymmetrical allemande; the second strain being two or sometimes four bars longer than the first. And the rule of ending strains on the third or fourth beat is also not absolute; there are both examples of ending on the first, on the third or fourth, the second or even a mix (e.g.: DeMachy, first D minor suite, first strain ending on the first beat, second one ending on the second). More importantly, though, there is generally a wider range of rhythmic figures and the "continuous 16th note motion" is more typical for the occasional doubles. Additionally, Bach's contrapuntal writing is less typical as well, for allemandes were quite often associated with arpeggiation (e.g.: Niedt).
Valuable comment. Including every exception to the rule would make the video unnecessarily long. I think it’s good to lay out a stable scaffold to build off of. Bending the rules afterwards is expected!
@@MusicaUniversalis Wouldn't call those exceptions but different rulebooks. The renaissance allemande follows different stylistic rules again and has changed significantly over time.
@@YavorArseniev Let’s say it this way. I’m not disagreeing with you at all. I have these rules from an old German musical form book. I like it because it’s very cut and dry. Too many exceptions make it difficult to orient one’s self. However your comment is very valuable as a helpful footnote to what I explained.
I think basing any understanding of baroque suites based on Bach is going to be VERY flawed as he is more an exception than so many other composers even compared to his contemporaries like Weiss. The two equal parts in an allemande for example is... Weird given the absolute mountain of music I've played where the second section is significantly, if not twice, as long as the A section. I think you really should have looked at more prolific composers more representative of the period.
Thanks for your video, I have been playing lots of bach and favoring the allemandes and gigues mostly... now would like to try my hand at composing an allemande and who knows. But anyway, I am amazed at how besides 4/4 time there is pretty much nothing on the rhythm which was actually mostly what i was looking for as apart from the female ending the rest i was taking for granted from experience. Only things i am figuring at this point is compared to a prelude, less 'preluding' by droning on/confirming the key of the suite a good amount as in preludes... more modulation instead, and other than that maybe not a rule but a custom to use a lot of simple 16th figures or as trioles, relatively limited complexity (also being early in the suite)? Idk. Either way, considering its dance i am surprised there isnt more to say on syncopy for it to be remotely danceable.
The allemande in the Partita No. 1 is perhaps my favorite of all the movements of the Bach suites. It's brisk, not slow. But I guess follows the form nonetheless.
I read someplace that an allemande should be played with a subdivided beat--that is, eight beat to a measure. It's interesting to compare the flowing style of the Bach allemande with earlier examples from Louis Couperin and Froberger, where the emphasis is on poignant harmonies and unexpected modulations. Here's an example of Froberger: th-cam.com/video/eqL_KKMV4GM/w-d-xo.html
Great video. Would like to see one done for the Ländler. Though not too common in classical music maybe, a few composers have written some great Ländlers.
Then you disagree with Walther’s Musicalisches Lexikon published in 1732 that describes the dance as “grave and serious.” No mention of it being bouncy and energetic, and this is from a source who would have actually seen the historical dance. Don’t take modern interpretations of things at face value.
Your channel is criminally under-subscribed! Your content and quality of the videos are gold! I am very happy that you and your channel exist! I am curious, by the way, why you use German in your score, or rather it's cover: "Barock Suite für zwei Violinen"? To be a little bit nitpicky: it should be "Barocksuite", but yeah, it's me being anoying.
Hey thanks for the praise it’s always appreciated, I’m kind of a late comer to the TH-cam party, but I am still happy with the amount of subscribers I have, considering I haven’t uploaded a massive amount of videos. I wrote the title in German because I live in Austria. Technically you are right about the title, however I use older German language books often as reference, and combining words seems less common in older german texts, so I decided to be archaic about things and not combine Barock and Suite. It also just looks better and old fashion-y in a Fraktur font to separate the words. While the modern consensus is to combine both words, German isn’t consistent about this either, otherwise it would be the Goldbergvariationen, like Waldsteinsonate, but instead it’s Goldberg Variationen or Goldberg-Variationen. German can also take the word combinations a little too far in all honesty as is the case with Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän or the even dumber Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.
Are you going to go over any other dances that show up in Baroque suites, either in combination with or as a substitute for another dance such as: Bourree -> Sometimes as a substitute for the Courante(orchestral suite no. 2 for instance), sometimes in combination with the Minuet or Gavotte, often doubled with one in Major and the other in Minor(Cello Suite no. 3 in C Major) Passipied -> Similar to the Gavotte and Minuet in character, similar to the Allemande in upbeat, and similar to the Bourree in tempo Anglaise -> I don’t know much about it other than that it translates to English
So when you say it repeats and modulates does that mean it would be the A section, then the A section in the dominant key, then the B section in the dominant key, and finally the B section in the original key?
I have it from an old German language book I have on Form. But it’s also still a common principle which is taught in German speaking countries. I have no idea what the situation is in English speaking countries.
Musica Universalis I think that the situation in English countries is to say Stressed or Unstressed ending based on the beat. But I don’t come across it very often at all.
Hmm. As a Baroque dancer, I wouldn't call the Allemande 'slow in tempo', it is lively, with hops and jumps--if it is too slow the dancers have to be strong enough to remain in the air for longer than is natural.
I think that it differs depending on the style and the composer. I have noticed this in Allemandes: Slow, but still livelier than a Sarabande -> French Allemande, ex. French Suite no. 2 in C Minor Faster side, approaching the speed of a Courante -> German Allemande, ex. Partita in A Minor for Solo Flute Moderato, about Minuet speed -> English Allemande, ex. English Suite no. 1 in A Major So when he says that the Allemande is slow, he might be referring to the French style Allemande.
@@caterscarrots3407 Ah, but what choreographers are you looking at? I read that the names 'French' & 'English' Suites were not given by Bach and don't really relate to a difference in dance type. Regarding 'German Allemande', you wouldn't be likely to compose a dance called 'the German dance' if you were living in Germany. In France, they named it Allemande (the French word for German) because they use arm positions and hand holds that were thought of as typically German/Austrian/Swiss. As far as a Baroque Courante is concerned, it is one of the slowest dances; you would need to go back to the Renaissance to find a fast version.
Talitha MacKenzie But the French suites have slow Allemandes and the English suites have Allemandes at Minuet speed. And the Courante isn’t slow at all, it’s faster than the Allemande, Minuet, Sarabande, and Gavotte, only the Gigue, Bouree and possibly the Polonaise are faster
Shikantaza How do you know it isn’t 3? Because I do hear 3 distinct styles of Allemande in Baroque suites and while other factors are there, the most obvious and most distinguishing factor is tempo. The French Allemande is slow, like in all of Bach’s French Suites. Then there’s the English Allemande at a moderate tempo similar to that of a Minuet and the German Allemande which approaches Courante speed.
Just a quick note: The rules I lay out in this video are the strict rules for writing an Allemande. You are certainly allowed to bend some rules, as Baroque composers themselves did. Mostly this applies to A and B sections being of equal length. Some baroque composers do not follow this, but opt more for A and B sections being "roughly" the same length.
And don’t forget to check out my own Baroque Suite in the description above!! 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
Beethoven wrote Allemande in triple time and in major keys compared to the Baroque's quadruple meter beginning on a quaver upbeat and conventionally in minor keys.
@@JuniorTan The Allemande of Beethoven’s time was a completely different dance altogether, and is more closely related to the Ländler and Waltz, thus the triple meter. I guess they just didn’t care to find a different name for it.
J.S.Bach BWV 1013 does not have a quick upbeat. This could be another example of a Baroque composer not following the rule.
Always amusing to hear things like "If you follow these rules, you should have no trouble writing your own allemande" as someone who has not the slightest clue about music composition :D
Great video as always
BROO my favourite music content creator is still going strong!! thank you so much!
Thank you for making this video. I'm writing a Toccata and I'm deeply into an allemande right now and needed a few pointers. I've liked a subbed. I'm sure I'll check out all of your videos in time. Thanks again.
Thanks so much for this video! I''m really happy to meet another Baroque composer.
Thank you for the clear illustrated information
Thank you, your videos are clear and easy to follow. I appreciate the time you take to craft them.
Hello, well done! Though... The Allemande was a fast dance first and became slower with time. As an video underlay you chose a fast Allemande, could be found quite on the tube. There is a very interesting essay about Bach's suites by Nikolaus Harnoncourt in "Die Geschichte der Musik", 1st volume: "Die Musik von den Anfängen bis zum Barock", Laaber 2001, pg. 377ff. Short summary: The "French Suite" which as an artificial form was created by Lully had a slow Overture, mixed up with an Allemande style part and an italian style part. The earlier Allemande did not have 2 parts with equal bar numbers, it differed quite a lot. In Bachs time, the Allemande was kind of a musical playing field since it was not danced any more. And: In the 17th century there was no regular canon for a suite at all, it was combined as anyone pleased...
So that's why Bach's Allemandes are so different! I can't imagine anyone dancing to them. Danke sehr!
best classical music channel, keep up! I'm learning so much 😃
Amazing content. That helps a lot. Thank you.
this is exactly what i was looking for. i kid you not i struggle so hard to find videos on rules of composition of musical forms and as a person who never went to musical school i still want to learn all of that. most videos on these forms are just historical
Thank you for this series, it really helps me understanding baroque music better
Thank you, this is very helpful. Clear and concise information.
I am currently learning a suite so these series will be very helpful! Thank you very much!
I really loved this video and your baroque suite. I find that your channel always brings interesting insight and often neglected, but nonetheless important, information to the table in an extremely understandable fashion.
A suggestion I think might be interesting would be do go through your method of composition. Obviously, everyone composes in a different way, but it would be intriguing to see how you do it!
Again, thank you for these great videos!
Thanks for the comment, and I’m glad you’re enjoying my videos and the Suite. Also glad you understand my goal of not just putting out the same kind of content you‘d find on any other music education YT channel.
To respond to your suggestion: A lot of my videos have been setting up certain themes to eventually get to that. Once this series is over and I finish a project I am currently working on I will be doing in a way what you and many others have been asking for, by explaining the process behind my current project.
Thanks for the succinct information! This is a great help.
Excellent video, my man!
An excellent video and great introduction to Bach's style of allemande-writing!
Subscribed because I am very much looking forward to your future videos and hoping to see the one on the Courante very soon.
I must mention, however that French suites very often being with a prelude (e.g.: every suite by DeMachy).
Marais also sometimes has multiple preludes as well as fantasias or caprices before the allemande. Out of 36 suites of his only three are without a prelude [not counting the "Suite d'un Gout Etranger", as it isn't a typical suite. It does start with a marche, though], but they start with a fantasia or caprice.
Earlier suites by French composers also have a tendency of an asymmetrical allemande; the second strain being two or sometimes four bars longer than the first.
And the rule of ending strains on the third or fourth beat is also not absolute; there are both examples of ending on the first, on the third or fourth, the second or even a mix (e.g.: DeMachy, first D minor suite, first strain ending on the first beat, second one ending on the second).
More importantly, though, there is generally a wider range of rhythmic figures and the "continuous 16th note motion" is more typical for the occasional doubles.
Additionally, Bach's contrapuntal writing is less typical as well, for allemandes were quite often associated with arpeggiation (e.g.: Niedt).
Valuable comment. Including every exception to the rule would make the video unnecessarily long. I think it’s good to lay out a stable scaffold to build off of. Bending the rules afterwards is expected!
@@MusicaUniversalis Wouldn't call those exceptions but different rulebooks. The renaissance allemande follows different stylistic rules again and has changed significantly over time.
@@YavorArseniev Let’s say it this way. I’m not disagreeing with you at all. I have these rules from an old German musical form book. I like it because it’s very cut and dry. Too many exceptions make it difficult to orient one’s self. However your comment is very valuable as a helpful footnote to what I explained.
Exceptions to my rule book.... 😂
But yes it’s very Händel and Bach oriented.
I think basing any understanding of baroque suites based on Bach is going to be VERY flawed as he is more an exception than so many other composers even compared to his contemporaries like Weiss. The two equal parts in an allemande for example is... Weird given the absolute mountain of music I've played where the second section is significantly, if not twice, as long as the A section. I think you really should have looked at more prolific composers more representative of the period.
Thank you so much for this ❤
They gavotte in a baroque suite is not a standard.
Thanks for your video, I have been playing lots of bach and favoring the allemandes and gigues mostly... now would like to try my hand at composing an allemande and who knows. But anyway, I am amazed at how besides 4/4 time there is pretty much nothing on the rhythm which was actually mostly what i was looking for as apart from the female ending the rest i was taking for granted from experience.
Only things i am figuring at this point is compared to a prelude, less 'preluding' by droning on/confirming the key of the suite a good amount as in preludes... more modulation instead, and other than that maybe not a rule but a custom to use a lot of simple 16th figures or as trioles, relatively limited complexity (also being early in the suite)? Idk. Either way, considering its dance i am surprised there isnt more to say on syncopy for it to be remotely danceable.
YESSSS A NEW VIDEO!!
Great lesson!
Thank you 🎉
Wonderful Video. Visuals are very nice :)
The allemande in the Partita No. 1 is perhaps my favorite of all the movements of the Bach suites. It's brisk, not slow. But I guess follows the form nonetheless.
yes it all makes sense now 🤔
I may not know what a dominates or parallel may be, but i understood some if not most of it.
Beautiful timing
I read someplace that an allemande should be played with a subdivided beat--that is, eight beat to a measure. It's interesting to compare the flowing style of the Bach allemande with earlier examples from Louis Couperin and Froberger, where the emphasis is on poignant harmonies and unexpected modulations. Here's an example of Froberger: th-cam.com/video/eqL_KKMV4GM/w-d-xo.html
Great video. Would like to see one done for the Ländler. Though not too common in classical music maybe, a few composers have written some great Ländlers.
It is far more popular in folk music and a precursor to the waltz, so will probably be part of an understanding form video on the waltz.
Not sure if I agree with the "slow tempo" part. Any time you see someone actually dancing this dance, it's stately and bouncy and energetic.
Then you disagree with Walther’s Musicalisches Lexikon published in 1732 that describes the dance as “grave and serious.” No mention of it being bouncy and energetic, and this is from a source who would have actually seen the historical dance.
Don’t take modern interpretations of things at face value.
Any insight on tempo or feel? How fast or slow can an allemande be played before it becomes awkward for the dancers?
Nice video!
Your channel is criminally under-subscribed! Your content and quality of the videos are gold! I am very happy that you and your channel exist!
I am curious, by the way, why you use German in your score, or rather it's cover: "Barock Suite für zwei Violinen"? To be a little bit nitpicky: it should be "Barocksuite", but yeah, it's me being anoying.
Hey thanks for the praise it’s always appreciated, I’m kind of a late comer to the TH-cam party, but I am still happy with the amount of subscribers I have, considering I haven’t uploaded a massive amount of videos. I wrote the title in German because I live in Austria. Technically you are right about the title, however I use older German language books often as reference, and combining words seems less common in older german texts, so I decided to be archaic about things and not combine Barock and Suite. It also just looks better and old fashion-y in a Fraktur font to separate the words. While the modern consensus is to combine both words, German isn’t consistent about this either, otherwise it would be the Goldbergvariationen, like Waldsteinsonate, but instead it’s Goldberg Variationen or Goldberg-Variationen. German can also take the word combinations a little too far in all honesty as is the case with Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän or the even dumber Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.
Are you going to go over any other dances that show up in Baroque suites, either in combination with or as a substitute for another dance such as:
Bourree -> Sometimes as a substitute for the Courante(orchestral suite no. 2 for instance), sometimes in combination with the Minuet or Gavotte, often doubled with one in Major and the other in Minor(Cello Suite no. 3 in C Major)
Passipied -> Similar to the Gavotte and Minuet in character, similar to the Allemande in upbeat, and similar to the Bourree in tempo
Anglaise -> I don’t know much about it other than that it translates to English
2:45 what about the flute partita? The starting allemande begins without an upbeat and a 16th rest
bravissímo!!!!!
Would have been helpful to add examples of the music
The baroque suite for 2 violins is not on I tunes!!
So when you say it repeats and modulates does that mean it would be the A section, then the A section in the dominant key, then the B section in the dominant key, and finally the B section in the original key?
But Bach's allemandes are in Cut Time. What about that? I'm saying this because meter does effect the dance.
Sweet.
Let’s all compose some allemandes!
Would it be same if it were only at 1 violin?
Subscribed
What are your sources for this?
Where did you learn the male/female ending? Is there a book about this?
I have it from an old German language book I have on Form. But it’s also still a common principle which is taught in German speaking countries. I have no idea what the situation is in English speaking countries.
Musica Universalis I think that the situation in English countries is to say Stressed or Unstressed ending based on the beat. But I don’t come across it very often at all.
Hmm. As a Baroque dancer, I wouldn't call the Allemande 'slow in tempo', it is lively, with hops and jumps--if it is too slow the dancers have to be strong enough to remain in the air for longer than is natural.
I think that it differs depending on the style and the composer. I have noticed this in Allemandes:
Slow, but still livelier than a Sarabande -> French Allemande, ex. French Suite no. 2 in C Minor
Faster side, approaching the speed of a Courante -> German Allemande, ex. Partita in A Minor for Solo Flute
Moderato, about Minuet speed -> English Allemande, ex. English Suite no. 1 in A Major
So when he says that the Allemande is slow, he might be referring to the French style Allemande.
@@caterscarrots3407 Ah, but what choreographers are you looking at? I read that the names 'French' & 'English' Suites were not given by Bach and don't really relate to a difference in dance type. Regarding 'German Allemande', you wouldn't be likely to compose a dance called 'the German dance' if you were living in Germany. In France, they named it Allemande (the French word for German) because they use arm positions and hand holds that were thought of as typically German/Austrian/Swiss. As far as a Baroque Courante is concerned, it is one of the slowest dances; you would need to go back to the Renaissance to find a fast version.
Talitha MacKenzie But the French suites have slow Allemandes and the English suites have Allemandes at Minuet speed. And the Courante isn’t slow at all, it’s faster than the Allemande, Minuet, Sarabande, and Gavotte, only the Gigue, Bouree and possibly the Polonaise are faster
As others have implied, there are two traditions of Allemandes. The 'tombeau' was often a slow processional allemande, similar to a pavane lament.
Shikantaza How do you know it isn’t 3? Because I do hear 3 distinct styles of Allemande in Baroque suites and while other factors are there, the most obvious and most distinguishing factor is tempo. The French Allemande is slow, like in all of Bach’s French Suites. Then there’s the English Allemande at a moderate tempo similar to that of a Minuet and the German Allemande which approaches Courante speed.