... always useful to have a few fenders to starboard jic the warp gets jammed in the pontoon and the bow swings right round. Not that its ever happened of course! Alternatively keep a long line to port until you are absolutely sure that stern spring is on board.
Just wondering, do they teach the starboard aft cleat method at RYA as well (motor forward, rudder to port first to get the boat off the dock)? In the intro you suggest there are only two methods, but you left out the easiest / safest one, esp in stronger conditions or doable in single hand situations.
If you don’t like wet lines then tie the spring shorter, slip it on the pontoon and jump back on the stern. Easier on motorboats as we have swim platforms
The prop isn't pushing any water over the rudder so it's not doing much. The tide flowing past the rudder may do a bit so right hand down would tend to pull the stern in if anything, even before you engage engine.
Left hand down. You reverse as if going into the pontoon in this example. Then the bow swings out. If you are exiting aft out you make a bow spring and drive forwards as if going into the pontoon. Left hand down then too and the aft will swing out after which you reverse out.
Indeed, and if the current or wind works against you (as in: pushesyou on the dock), you first give rudder to port (counter intuitive), which will move the whole stern away from the dock. It's generally considered a much safer way, it's simpler, can be done single handedly, and doesn't require a quick reversal moment (ie, the technique shown here has a moment where you go from reverse into forward, and remove the line at the same time, in rough conditions this can lead to obvious problems).
Your intuition is right: helping the stern to move to port would help the bow to move to starboard; but there's a detail to keep in mind. When you move forward, lots of water (prop-wash) will move backward onto your rudder: in this case the position of your rudder will enormously affect your boat's pivotal movement. When you move astern like in this video's scenario, lots of water will move forward without any interaction with your rudder, plus, you won't be able to generate enough speed which is necessary for a rudder to become effective when moving through the water. What would instead help in this specific manouvre is called prop-walk. It's a stern side movement generated by the rotation of the prop: in this video's case, a right handed propeller would help the stern moving to port. Hope this helps 👍
Would you like to demonstrate that technique on my 50 foot steel yacht weighing 25 tons when it is being held onto the pontoon in a Force 5 / Force 6 ?
+David Wheatley All techniques are subject to conditions. You may find with your vessel in stronger winds you may need a longer stern spring, more power astern or assistance from a bow thruster or use of your tender to pull the bow around. The technique however is used often and successfully by vessels much larger than the one in the video in strong winds
@@METALITHrevetments so you cannot conceive that a yacht should ever be moved in a 5/6? There’s an old saying in the YM community “there are old sailors and there are bold sailors, but there are no old and bold sailors”. I’m not sure that saying applies to a strong breeze lol, but if you feel safer not going out in a 6 then you do you boo.
Well, the point I was making was that at no point prior to 4:27 did the instructor mention turning the rudder AWAY from centre. To say, "Now I'm going to centre my rudder" implies that at some point it wasn't centred - where was this mentioned? But also, to answer your point - if you're springing the bow out, you're not relying on the rudder at all - you're not making way so the rudder isn't doing anything. If you were springing the stern then you'd use the rudder to create propwash to drive the stern out - springing the bow you simply can't achieve this effect. The turning effect is achieved by the leverage of the spring and - a little later - the tide hitting the leeward bow. So there's no value in having the rudder anywhere other than centre when you're driving astern against the spring. As soon as you start driving forward then yes, you use the rudder. But that would already be centred. In my experience.
Wishing you smiles through it all.
Great video thanks heaps
... always useful to have a few fenders to starboard jic the warp gets jammed in the pontoon and the bow swings right round. Not that its ever happened of course! Alternatively keep a long line to port until you are absolutely sure that stern spring is on board.
Just wondering, do they teach the starboard aft cleat method at RYA as well (motor forward, rudder to port first to get the boat off the dock)? In the intro you suggest there are only two methods, but you left out the easiest / safest one, esp in stronger conditions or doable in single hand situations.
If you don’t like wet lines then tie the spring shorter, slip it on the pontoon and jump back on the stern. Easier on motorboats as we have swim platforms
So reversing, the wheel was turned which way,? left hand down or right hand down??
The prop isn't pushing any water over the rudder so it's not doing much. The tide flowing past the rudder may do a bit so right hand down would tend to pull the stern in if anything, even before you engage engine.
Left hand down. You reverse as if going into the pontoon in this example. Then the bow swings out. If you are exiting aft out you make a bow spring and drive forwards as if going into the pontoon. Left hand down then too and the aft will swing out after which you reverse out.
Caption at 4 minutes is wrong. It says 'hold bow line and motor astern'. Perhaps you meant release bow line, or hold stern spring?
Dorothy squatted upon the ground and put up her parasol, which nearly covered her and proved a great protection.
What would change if spring line would be tied to starboard aft cleat not port side ?
You would go forward instead of reverse to achieve the same result.
Indeed, and if the current or wind works against you (as in: pushesyou on the dock), you first give rudder to port (counter intuitive), which will move the whole stern away from the dock. It's generally considered a much safer way, it's simpler, can be done single handedly, and doesn't require a quick reversal moment (ie, the technique shown here has a moment where you go from reverse into forward, and remove the line at the same time, in rough conditions this can lead to obvious problems).
Please recreate this in conditions that are actually windy.
You missed to show the crucial moment and the subtitles are wrong it's not the bow line it's the stern spring line
i guess when you drive astern , you need a little steering to the portside ..someone confirm :D
It helps but not necessarily important I would think, the spring will actually do most of the job.
Your intuition is right: helping the stern to move to port would help the bow to move to starboard; but there's a detail to keep in mind.
When you move forward, lots of water (prop-wash) will move backward onto your rudder: in this case the position of your rudder will enormously affect your boat's pivotal movement.
When you move astern like in this video's scenario, lots of water will move forward without any interaction with your rudder, plus, you won't be able to generate enough speed which is necessary for a rudder to become effective when moving through the water.
What would instead help in this specific manouvre is called prop-walk. It's a stern side movement generated by the rotation of the prop: in this video's case, a right handed propeller would help the stern moving to port. Hope this helps 👍
Would you like to demonstrate that technique on my 50 foot steel yacht weighing 25 tons when it is being held onto the pontoon in a Force 5 / Force 6 ?
+David Wheatley All techniques are subject to conditions. You may find with your vessel in stronger winds you may need a longer stern spring, more power astern or assistance from a bow thruster or use of your tender to pull the bow around. The technique however is used often and successfully by vessels much larger than the one in the video in strong winds
@@RYA1875 Or, better yet, don't take the boat out in a Force 5/6.
@@METALITHrevetments sailing in a 5/6 isn’t unusual. Sometimes it’s necessary to move a vessel in these conditions.
@@gmtime5439 If you say so. I would never do it myself.
@@METALITHrevetments so you cannot conceive that a yacht should ever be moved in a 5/6?
There’s an old saying in the YM community “there are old sailors and there are bold sailors, but there are no old and bold sailors”. I’m not sure that saying applies to a strong breeze lol, but if you feel safer not going out in a 6 then you do you boo.
4:27 "At this point I'm going to straighten my wheel." Why would it not already be straight?
Does he mean, "I'm going to ensure my wheel is straight?"
Well, the point I was making was that at no point prior to 4:27 did the instructor mention turning the rudder AWAY from centre. To say, "Now I'm going to centre my rudder" implies that at some point it wasn't centred - where was this mentioned?
But also, to answer your point - if you're springing the bow out, you're not relying on the rudder at all - you're not making way so the rudder isn't doing anything. If you were springing the stern then you'd use the rudder to create propwash to drive the stern out - springing the bow you simply can't achieve this effect. The turning effect is achieved by the leverage of the spring and - a little later - the tide hitting the leeward bow. So there's no value in having the rudder anywhere other than centre when you're driving astern against the spring. As soon as you start driving forward then yes, you use the rudder. But that would already be centred.
In my experience.
Jim Strange
Jim Strange ä
Hamble school of yachting
Needs a Complete Overhaul
Not very good anymore.
Please show boat instead of yourself