I’ve never heard the advice to write from the shoulder, but if you draw, most art books will tell you to draw from the shoulder, because you can get smoother lines, and less jitter. Interesting conversation!
A number of decades ago, I was a draftsman. With exception of some lettering, that was a whole arm work. The only way to get good lines/curves was to use your arm. And, pencils had to be rotated for line quality.
It depends on the scale you are drawing to some degree but drawing is a whole body motion. I will never draw sitting down unless I’m doing little squibs and notations. I draw with my legs as much as my arms. Fluid motion is like elite sport.
@@charlie9ine The largest drawings I worked on were 24x36. So I was working at a drafting table, usually with a parallel bar (which was really nice for long horizontal lines). Most of the time I spent working on a small part of the larger sheet, such as details, or a part of plan or plan/profile, or notes. I never worked at your scale or I think I would have used similar techniques. In some ways, I miss working on the boards. There is great satisfaction in completing a sheet. It's a pristine, beautiful thing... then the changes come. :)
People who write with their arm (Palmer method, and others) can have the same handwriting regardless of their age and are unaffected by arthritis in their fingers (as long as they are able to hold the pen).
I've been practicing drawing with the arm more (after getting a wrist injury earlier this year...), but I hadn't thought about practicing with my writing, too! thanks for the heads up! PS: Drew's shirt is really cool!!
I definitely use the blended approach, I think that's part of what drew me to fountain pens actually, they flowed with me instead of fighting the way I wanted to move.
I love that fountain pens allow me to use more of my arm for writing. I have long writing sessions with constant wrist pain. Fountain pens have cut down on that pain tremendously!
This was excellent - as someone who writes from fingers and a bit of the wrist, with a tendency to write small (perhaps because of not using the arm) I am certainly going to give this a try and see if I can improve my handwriting. Thanks both!
Just a side note, this does not take away from the discussion. The muscles that move your fingers are not located in the hand. There are tendons that extend from you fingers and attach to muscles in the arm. You can see them working if you hold one of your digits with the other hand and simultaneously try to flex it. This does not mean that finger muscles don't fatigue easily of course.
The issue isn't really the muscles, it's the tendons. You absolutely can train your finger muscles and make them bigger, but you really cannot do anything about your tendons.
I feel obliged to mention that there are no muscles within your fingers. All of your fingers are controlled by muscles in your forearms that attach to tendons in your fingers. You do have muscles in the palm of your hand and it is these muscles that will fatigue
As a lefty, when I got back into fountain pens, I re-trained myself to write top to bottom, right to left (page rotated 90° clockwise). I have noticed that my arm puendulums right and left more easily, with my wrist controlling the loops. My cursive is now the best that it has ever been. Now I need to re-train myself to read in this direction, instead of getting a crick in my neck.
As a training ambidexterous I feel that writing mirrored is the easiest way. Brain accomodates pretty quickly and you can read mirrotnp problem. Still can't feel as smooth with 90 degrees rotated paper.
@dieyendualpen videos got me into writing from shoulder and it's the best way. Your arms never get tired and since your whole body participates in the process of writing you can express yourself in a more holistic, flow state way. At this point ot totally becomes a form of meditation, when you're 100% in the zone.
Use depends on the media and what it's applied to. Painting a 36X 48 oil your arms and shoulders have a great range of motion. A quick note on a post it while juggling a cell phone or other desktop utensils is a different story. A short letter on an A5 tablet is different than using a US 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper. My favorite pens are large with broad nibs, skinny pens like the disposable Varsity are uncomfortable for me. I favor using larger muscle groups. Age and arthritis contribute to this.
Wow this is so different from drumming; the faster and longer you play, the more youre gonna want to use your fingers. The idea is, lowest effort, maximum output. However, this idea is mainly for speed + endurance. Im not trying to speed write right now lol
My fingers stay pretty much stationary while writing; I find my wrist/arm is what's always on the move. Drawing is a different story. My fingers will change position while I'm drawing.
I’m an artist. I write because I write. Drawing is what I do for a living. I draw with my whole body. At the very least draw with your whole arm. I suppose this explains why my handwriting is shit.
Who cares about writing? The star of this video is Brian's Pokémon T-Shirt!!!! We definitely need a collaboration between Pokémon and a great fountain pen brand, I think Montegrappa could be a good candidate, I'd love to have a pen in Charizard's theme =)
It is amazing how this sort of knowledge will be lost to younger generations, which won't gain it from experience, as they no longer write day-to-day. A lot of tired fingers & wrists, if they try writing sessions later in life as they enter the FP hobby.
yup, people who "write with their fingers" are using muscles in their palm and forearm. using flexor digitorum profundus tendons anyway, hand still cramps like a mofo
All the muscles in your hand are located in the palm. Those muscles (I think there are 2) along with muscles in your wrist control your pen. That is why when you write for a long time the lower part of the hand and your wrist cramps.
Well, with proper technique, you should never have cramps when writing. Or even with poor technique, if you write often enough. I've had to write as much as sixteen hours per day for work, and pretty much never had cramping in my hand or wrist. I'm not sure which is the most important, writing with your arm, or, perhaps, not having a tight grip on the writing instrument.
I’ve never heard the advice to write from the shoulder, but if you draw, most art books will tell you to draw from the shoulder, because you can get smoother lines, and less jitter. Interesting conversation!
A number of decades ago, I was a draftsman. With exception of some lettering, that was a whole arm work. The only way to get good lines/curves was to use your arm. And, pencils had to be rotated for line quality.
It depends on the scale you are drawing to some degree but drawing is a whole body motion. I will never draw sitting down unless I’m doing little squibs and notations. I draw with my legs as much as my arms. Fluid motion is like elite sport.
@@charlie9ine sometimes I also draw with my face.
@@charlie9ine The largest drawings I worked on were 24x36. So I was working at a drafting table, usually with a parallel bar (which was really nice for long horizontal lines). Most of the time I spent working on a small part of the larger sheet, such as details, or a part of plan or plan/profile, or notes.
I never worked at your scale or I think I would have used similar techniques.
In some ways, I miss working on the boards. There is great satisfaction in completing a sheet. It's a pristine, beautiful thing... then the changes come. :)
People who write with their arm (Palmer method, and others) can have the same handwriting regardless of their age and are unaffected by arthritis in their fingers (as long as they are able to hold the pen).
Palmer method here. Let’s talk about all the people who can’t write cursive! What’s up with that?
I've been practicing drawing with the arm more (after getting a wrist injury earlier this year...), but I hadn't thought about practicing with my writing, too! thanks for the heads up!
PS: Drew's shirt is really cool!!
I definitely use the blended approach, I think that's part of what drew me to fountain pens actually, they flowed with me instead of fighting the way I wanted to move.
I love that fountain pens allow me to use more of my arm for writing. I have long writing sessions with constant wrist pain. Fountain pens have cut down on that pain tremendously!
This was excellent - as someone who writes from fingers and a bit of the wrist, with a tendency to write small (perhaps because of not using the arm) I am certainly going to give this a try and see if I can improve my handwriting. Thanks both!
Just a side note, this does not take away from the discussion. The muscles that move your fingers are not located in the hand. There are tendons that extend from you fingers and attach to muscles in the arm. You can see them working if you hold one of your digits with the other hand and simultaneously try to flex it. This does not mean that finger muscles don't fatigue easily of course.
The issue isn't really the muscles, it's the tendons. You absolutely can train your finger muscles and make them bigger, but you really cannot do anything about your tendons.
I mainly write with my wrist and forearm when using fountain pens and just my wrist when using ball point or gel/roller ball pens.
As a fellow I-am-getting-there-er I appreciate the detail Brian.
I wrote with my arm for so long. I reverted back to the wrist, and I flow much better now.
I feel obliged to mention that there are no muscles within your fingers. All of your fingers are controlled by muscles in your forearms that attach to tendons in your fingers. You do have muscles in the palm of your hand and it is these muscles that will fatigue
As a lefty, when I got back into fountain pens, I re-trained myself to write top to bottom, right to left (page rotated 90° clockwise). I have noticed that my arm puendulums right and left more easily, with my wrist controlling the loops. My cursive is now the best that it has ever been.
Now I need to re-train myself to read in this direction, instead of getting a crick in my neck.
what
As a training ambidexterous I feel that writing mirrored is the easiest way. Brain accomodates pretty quickly and you can read mirrotnp problem. Still can't feel as smooth with 90 degrees rotated paper.
How to implement whole arm movement when you're a lefty?
Write however , jusss make sure you use a fountain pen ❤️
Ah yes.
Do you a,b or c?
Que a Brian deep dive.😂
Love it.
@dieyendualpen videos got me into writing from shoulder and it's the best way. Your arms never get tired and since your whole body participates in the process of writing you can express yourself in a more holistic, flow state way. At this point ot totally becomes a form of meditation, when you're 100% in the zone.
Use depends on the media and what it's applied to. Painting a 36X 48 oil your arms and shoulders have a great range of motion. A quick note on a post it while juggling a cell phone or other desktop utensils is a different story. A short letter on an A5 tablet is different than using a US 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper. My favorite pens are large with broad nibs, skinny pens like the disposable Varsity are uncomfortable for me. I favor using larger muscle groups. Age and arthritis contribute to this.
Wow this is so different from drumming; the faster and longer you play, the more youre gonna want to use your fingers. The idea is, lowest effort, maximum output. However, this idea is mainly for speed + endurance. Im not trying to speed write right now lol
medieval scribe desks were slanted at a high angle and they wrote constantly. I wonder if that encourages whole arm writing
I cannot write with my arm. I feel most of the time I don't have the room, lol
My fingers stay pretty much stationary while writing; I find my wrist/arm is what's always on the move. Drawing is a different story. My fingers will change position while I'm drawing.
LOL! At first I thought it said, "Should you write ON your arm or your wrist?"🤣😂🤣
That the REAL question! - Drew
I've never considered using wrist/arm for writing.
always interesting, thaks
I’m an artist. I write because I write. Drawing is what I do for a living. I draw with my whole body. At the very least draw with your whole arm. I suppose this explains why my handwriting is shit.
I'm sure your handwriting is just what it should be - yours! :) - Drew
@@Gouletpens It definitely is mine. When I’m writing I’m trying to go as fast as my imagination is moving... and I’m dyslexic)))
I have the first book
Who cares about writing? The star of this video is Brian's Pokémon T-Shirt!!!! We definitely need a collaboration between Pokémon and a great fountain pen brand, I think Montegrappa could be a good candidate, I'd love to have a pen in Charizard's theme =)
That would be amazing! - Drew
We need a gif of 1:35 to 1:37
Plot twist: There are no muscles in your fingers. All the muscles are in your forearm.
About finger muscles… you should watch the original The Mechanic, the one with Charles Bronson. He’s constantly squeezing a ball of wax…😀
It is amazing how this sort of knowledge will be lost to younger generations, which won't gain it from experience, as they no longer write day-to-day. A lot of tired fingers & wrists, if they try writing sessions later in life as they enter the FP hobby.
Guys,there are no muscles in the fingers.
yup, people who "write with their fingers" are using muscles in their palm and forearm. using flexor digitorum profundus tendons anyway, hand still cramps like a mofo
TIL that fingers don't have muscles
Thanks!
with my fountain pen.
maybe I'm weird, but doesn't legs have bigger muscles.
You’re free to write with your legs.
All the muscles in your hand are located in the palm. Those muscles (I think there are 2) along with muscles in your wrist control your pen. That is why when you write for a long time the lower part of the hand and your wrist cramps.
Well, with proper technique, you should never have cramps when writing. Or even with poor technique, if you write often enough. I've had to write as much as sixteen hours per day for work, and pretty much never had cramping in my hand or wrist. I'm not sure which is the most important, writing with your arm, or, perhaps, not having a tight grip on the writing instrument.
Arm.
Finger muscles? Humans don’t have any!
I don’t believe ballpoint pens facilitate muscular movement. FUCK!!!!
There are no muscles in your fingers.