Making custom heater pads and then destroying one
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- Copying the Chinese for a change. (assuming they didn't copy someone else.)
While laminating carbon fibre electrodes onto some experimental membranes, I decided to have a go at making some heater pads based on laminated carbon fibre tissue with copper electrodes.
It's a technique I've seen used in many imported low power heating products, and it seems to work pretty well. There's huge scope to customise the shape, area and heat level.
I then decided to test one to destruction to see how it fared.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of TH-cam's algorithm quirks, allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
#ElectronicsCreators - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
For scientific reasons the failure mode always needs to be investigated. 😎
Always, he needs to test it's pop freshhold.. :)
Most definitely...you know...for safety reasons! 😁👍👍
@@arthurmann578 Of course.. ;)
Is probably air entering at the place where it firstbreaks the lamination and oxygen allowing the car bon fibers to oxidise in a path where the pouch first bulges.
Appears to have the same failure mode as most electronics - ie once the smoke escapes it stops working.
Unnecessarily complex proposal, but if you made 4 x 7 segment shaped arrays of these (with the appropriate drivers) then coated it with thermochromic paint , you'd end up with a really funky clock!
...also, you could leave off the thermochromic paint, and have a clock that you could only read with an IR camera 🤣
The seconds might be a bit slow to respond though!!
That's a really cool (!) idea.
@@therealchayd Yes yes! I was thinking about a nitinol wire installation which would heat up and show the time only in IR. :D
Someone has made this with pcb traces as the heaters, I believe it was a thermochromic panel
FYI, the copper tape can be found in diy stores as snail deterrent tape
hahaha snail deterrent at 240V AC
There's a new video for Clive 🤣
@@YoureUsingWordsIncorrectly I think a microwave oven transformer connected to copper strips on the ground would be better. Set up a camera
Darn, he didn't measure the smoking temperature with the pyrometer camera thingy! Now he'll have to do it again.
Self adhesive copper tape is also used for making stained glass. Craft shps sell it.
Thanks, going to buy one.
Not sure when I will be able to get my hands on the carbon fibre mesh.
But at least it will help get rid of the snails and slugs in the meantime.
If you want carbon fiber with more repeatable properties, either use woven stuff or sandwich a few layers together at different angles.
Come on Clive, we really wanted to see it connected to the mains via a variac.. 😁🤪
when he suggested making three strips I instantly thought "Yes! connect it to three-phase!!" ;-))
stick it on Photon's capacitor
@@stepheneyles2198 all we have to do now is decide whether we want it connected in a star or triangle configuration 😉
Oh come on Clive get out the quick test !
You get little sparks where the individual strands meet the copper, knocking out those strands somehow... this shifts more current to the remaining strands, causing them to die out more quickly, until the connection between the copper and the carbon is completely broken. Not sure why, maybe it's the plastic melting by the heat and causing insulation, but it doesn't take much to destroy them
Hi Clive I feel we missed out a learning point with not bringing back in the thermal imaging during testing to destruction!
Yes, this test needs to be run again, with the thermal imager running. For science!
And the max power, amps volts watts it can take before self destruction
This is actually an awesome visualisation of what a carbon film resistor is/does. Just imagine it shrunken down and shoved into some ceramic (also with a cheaper conductive metal).
I have absolutely no need for this... but... oh darnit I've just ordered some anyway 😊
👍 How to find it? What is it called? Ebay? Ali Express? If you would be so kind 🙏😊
Noticble that the area of the pad where the thermal imager recorded higher temperatures, started melting first. Probably irregular weave or the addition of more schmoke particles by the manufacturer.😂
What a great way to start the weekend, thanks Clive! 🔥💥
Oh Clive, I have an entire garage full of tool and material duplicates from losing, buying, then re-finding. Glad to know im not the only one who does this! 😂
I see a butter dish warmer project on my "to do" list. No more demolishing the bread 🍞 😁. Thank's Clive, awesome video.
If you warm your butter dish from the bottom the whole block will just slide about. Using one hot straight from the dishwasher taught me this
@@lmcshera I think the idea is to keep the heating on low power, but permanently (or perhaps based on room temperature) and heat up the butter slowly. Just to keep it soft enough to spread, increasing the temperature by 5-10°C (above room) should be enough.
If the butter dish has a lid, then perhaps have a strip around the butter, not touching it, but rather radiating.
No need to warm the butter, just use a cheese grater with a cold stick of butter to get some on the bread.
@@Okurka. Lurpak Spreadable with up to 64% butter. Nah I'll pass thanks
I've made heated gloves using carbon fiber rope. I originally used 7.4V LiPo packs that came with a pair of commercial gloves. But for the past 2 winters I've been using a USB-C battery with a 9V decoy board, which eliminates the heat fade as the battery voltage drops. To control the output I use a small PWM dimmer.
The carbon rope I use has a resistance of 21 ohms per meter. The temperature is a factor of length and voltage, the shorter you make it the hotter it will get. I picked a length that I can plug my gloves straight into a battery and max out at a safe temperature.
It has been quite the learning experience as I've had all sorts of failures. I finally settled on copper crimps for the wire to fiber connection. I was still using solder which made the wires brittle and some broke over time from the stress of removing the gloves.
At one point I was using fine copper wire wrapped around the carbon and power wire then bonded with solder. But unless the solder is absolutely perfect that connection can act as a coil and get up to 200F! That was a fun surprise, at least carbon cools off very quickly.
Never change Clive. Love your channel.
When applying the copper tape don't take all the backing off. Just pull back a bit at the end, stick it on and then slowly pull off the backing while sticking the rest of the tape on. That keeps the tape from sticking to anything you don't want it to stick to and also keeps it in an easy to handle shape.
I love how you're always aware of the safety of what you're doing.
So now we need a mains test to see how it behaves at 4 kW!
Yes Clive, put it into the sausage heater!😂
it would probably draw around 3.3kW and 14 amps. Then it would explode...
Would it work with AC
Clive, you forgot to measure the resistance! But anyway, the thing would just explode on the mains the moment you plug it in 😅
Oops, somebody invented the flat incandescent light 'bulb'
Nice! A larger version of this might be what I need to keep my solar batteries warm in winter.
The copper tape is available from garden shops as "anti slug tape". I got some for a project last year.
I was wondering if you ut the tape a bit longer, then folded the end over to cover the sticky side, you could have copper tabs sticking out of the side of the pouch to solder or connect clips to. No need for the holes or removing the sticky.
Having the tape stick out the end might be too delicate.
But you could just fold it around the pouch so it ends up on the outside.
@@Ultrazaubererger Or fold the end for a few millimeters so the non-adhesive side is visible at the holes.
I'm thinking this may be a way to make A4 sized heater plates for stopping water freezing. I've already ripped up an electric blanket to get the heater wire to wind round the pipes.
thats actually a genius idea to have a heater with a huge surface area !!
i was contemplating the whole power resistor strapped to a huge meal sheet , but this is way better
i have to substitute the carbon fibre for something else i can actually get in my country
Very impressed with the carbon fibre. However the plastic pouch is the main problem. Attach a thermistor and get it self regulating. Love it
Honestly pretty cool, tho one solution that you didn't mention to the soldering the wires on thing with the adhesive copper tape that you have, is to just stick it onto the other side of the pouch so that the nonadhesive side is already available to the hole instead.
You’d have to punch a hole in the carbon fiber then too.
Or fold the end of the tape over on itself, to create an unsticky tab at the end.
Why use tape? Couldn't you use bare copper wire and have it stick out the bottom a bit? Or do you need the larger surface area to contact the carbon fiber tissue?
Classic engineering report: "We tested for a breaking point. It has one!"
Stained glass copper tape is a bit thicker and takes to soldering well. The adhesive is also quite heat resistant.
Your creativity never ceases to amaze me, Clive. Just one of the reasons I enjoy your channel so much.
I think he's lost the containment dish.....
@@garrett69
I have asked him about the fire containment pie plate. He only uses it for lithium based fire hazards.
Earlier I mentioned a 20W (as they state) 510 screw-on soldering iron. It comes with two spare heaters and three screw-on tips of different shapes (horseshoe, knife and conical).
Its impedance is around one Ohm, and it actually works good. I didn't believe in USB soldering irons initially, but you changed my mind radically. Thank you, and thank you again.
When I first started rebuilding vintage magnetos around 10 years ago, I was told by my guru to use some adhesive backed tinned copper tape for the final connection from the very fine secondary wire to the HT output. Bare copper tape wasn’t ideal for a few reasons.
I was pretty poor at the time, struggling to get tooled up for this little business. The bare copper tape was ridiculously cheap & easy to find, but I had to pay around £40 for the same stuff that was tinned! & it took some searching to find it too.
£40 for a single roll!
Fortunately each coil only uses a small piece & 10 years later I’ve still got plenty left.
I bet it’s available a lot cheaper now, but I can’t see me needing another roll for at least another decade.
Weirdly it’s tinned on both sides, before the adhesive is added. I’ve never bothered to look at it under the microscope to find the copper centre though.
This is amazing! I can see so many uses for these, including heating electronics. In cold environments equipment needs heaters inside to keep the electronics at operating temperature, and these little pads seem perfect, you could even place them right under a PCB to heat it. It also seems to have a slight positive temperature coefficient meaning it can't go into thermal runaway.
" ... there is the smoke again ; this is good ..." while your fire extinguisher is in view. You missed saying "safety first" 👌😊🤣
I really like it when you throw in some of these bench top tinkering videos instead of all the reverse engineering ones
This is super neat! You could also put in a small PTC thermistor of some kind in the laminated sleeve to help regulate the temperature, or at least prevent overtemp failures.
Copper tape is available with an electrically conductive adhesive whih would make construction much simpler.
It would be interesting to try to construct a higher-temperature version of this using something like a couple of glass plates clamped firmly together instead of the plastic sleeve, and then seeing how hot you could actually get it before it started suffering ill-effects...
In theory, if you used the right materials, you should be able to make something that can produce quite a bit of heat output (but the failure mode when you push it too far might be quite a bit more dramatic)..
Absolutely the best way to find anything that's dropped into a parallel universe and become 'lost' forever is to order a replacement, works unfailingly.
Very interesting project though, it could be really useful for stabilising electronics at a set temperature.
I've got a few off the shelf pads like this at 7W, sold for terrariums. They can become a fire hazard even below that if you forget about one under a blanket or some other insulating cover, but they also use 1/200th the energy of my baseboard heater.
I was kind of hoping for 240 volts at 50 amps, but still a good demolition.
Great idea, I didn't know carbon fiber could be used this way.
Considering I live in Florida not sure when I'd ever need this....I'm thankful for you and all your crazy science experiments.
This is actually genius, Im thinking of some DIY custom fit heater pads for my car's side mirrors to defrost them in the winter. My mother's car has heated side mirrors from the factory and its very useful.
"Eh, no flames... Boooo!" I'm still laughing! Good show Clive.
Exactly what I need for my Telescope to retard Dew from the optics at night. 5V power bank + custom build/Wattage. Thanks BC, my weekend agenda is now full.😁
Ridiculous how much they charge for dew heaters
What did you call me
@@whompronnie 🤣
for my camera lens i used heating wire from a domestic electric blanket, measure lenght, cut in 20 pieces, each length is now 12v. sew it into a sock, sock over lens, old 12v car battery.... One or at the most two strips should do.
Good idea 😊 Would work for long exposure night photography!!
Clive gets new phone with Fancy Thermal Imagine Camera:
Clive makes Cool Video destroying pocket snooker warmer, forgets to check Max Heat.
Q: Could this be used to heat food while camping? Thinking MRE rations style experiment.
yeah carbon fiber and copper can handle high temps, you would need a more heat-resistent substrate than the plastic though
I want to see it plugged into a 240v supply ! 😬
You’re a builder and an experimenter clive, thanks for sharing your journey with us
“I should do this without any rehearsal…Yes I should!”
Made my day lol
Take a shot whenever Clive says “prototype.”
It works quite well. I used this method to make a heating mat for my propagator (about A4 size). It pulls about 8 Watt. Enough to let my seeds sprout. Prior i had used resistors in heatshrink, but roots would curl around those
12.66 ohms if anyone was wondering...
Good tip learned from this first time experiment: iron the carbon fibre to drive out moisture before laminating.
or stick it in an oven at 100C for a few minutes first. Whatever floats your boat.
"26 volts and it's smoking again. This is good."
Can't argue with that ;-D
Oh, an interesting side project (very) would be diode based thermostat. The diode would be a sensor, and you'd need at least a mosfet to regulate on/off. Maybe one resistor for a voltage divider? With surface mount components you could laminate all into one unit. That would make it more tolerant of voltage if nothing else, and would make it a more useful project overall.
The moisture was probably in the laminating pouches.
I used fiberglass and resin to make props before, but this is another level
I was expecting the carbon to go broke, but disappointed by Clive and his 40ish Volts 😆
Chinese manufacturers: "Write that down, write that down!"
Well that was exciting! Cheers Clive, easy to understand, good to know, fun to watch.
BTW, I've purchased copper foil tape at the hobby store; it's used for stained glass.
Oh! I had a fleece blanket that had that stuff! I bought it from Dealextreme like 10 years ago, cheap as heck, wasn't very big, like 40x60cm, one day broke down and I tore it apart to see what was inside. And it was that. Male USB cable connected to a pair of copper strips to a black fiber inside a plastic bag... I thought at the time it was graphite coated cellulose or something, but no, it's carbon fiber.
Very interesting! Cheers!
As a member of the Semi Conductor Family Carbon has a negative thermal coefficient for resistance.
I learned that from my Secondary School Science Teacher.
With a University Degree in Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics I have NEVER seen that little snippet since.
if you make more of these, you can easily avoid getting the adhesive side on the hole. After making the hole, close the pouch and use a marker or even just a sharp thing to scratch the area inside the hole on the opposite side. Then you cover that mark with the adhesive. easier to get a good solder point.
Really cool and useful experiment, Clive! I can see me making some glove and sock warmers with your idea this coming winter.....🤔👍👍
Peltier's elements are pretty good for heating and cooling. Fun to play with. I got a stack of 3 down to -50 C. You could build a cloud chamber with those.
They are fun, but very inefficient. And their efficiency falls as the temperature differential between the hot and cold sides grows. For heating you’re better off with a resistive heater. For cooling, a refrigeration cycle system is far better. They do have some niche applications, but there’s a very good reason we don’t cool homes and refrigerators with them.
@@tookitogo There are videos on youtube of people building cloud chambers with Peltier elements, and they work!
@@seanrh4294 Where did I say it wouldn’t work? I just said it’s really inefficient, so I don’t think “really good” is the best description for them as a blanket statement. (Which is what your first sentence is.)
Yes, their efficiency may be poor, but their size, solid-state nature and ability to heat or cool with polarity reversal makes them extremely flexible and convenient.
Besides, when it comes to making cool stuff just for the hell of it, who's worried about efficiency anyways?
Great timing! I brew stuff and was recently thinking about making one of these to heat a small space.
Thanks Clive! I have used the already made ones that are for the jackets and fitt them in My mitts for winter Bike rides they are thr sewn carbon thread type there are five heating pads they draw a bit over an amp at the 5 volts! Cheers!!! Rick Armstrong Aurora Ontario Canada
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Thank you once again for your content big Clive. Throughout the years, watching you became like a bowl of hot soup in middle of a harsh winter. Always relaxing, bringing me a smile and making me laugh, also made me a better creator. 🙂
Nice example of which way the current is flowing......cheers
Not as dramatic as the Presto Hot Dogger experiments, but an excellent foray into science, none-the-less. 👍
Thanks for the good video Clive, I've been looking at window heating elements and small heaters such as the miniature tube heaters for de icing etc...
I've found a few manufacturers of the heating tape and holders for mini heaters and there's a small etching business local to my home that makes custom foil patterns by laser cutting and liquid etching..
This reminds me of a science lesson I was in where I got bored and cranked up the voltage.
That realy nice to keep stuff warm. Maybe senitive equpment or so melt snow. also with capton tape there are many use cases. You no longer need to oder a pcb for prototyping. Thanks for sharing this great idea!
famous last words:
"here is the smoke again, this is good"
I see potential for a anti-insect screen door with burglar execution functionality
your pink calculator is EPIC !! thank you for this vid !
there is an interesting quack product called Kagan Magic Plus. The product has entered the pit of nothing available anymore, but the concept works, again and again
Interesting how the smoke comes and goes. I wonder if that's the plasticizer leaving the laminate, and maybe this could be a manufacturing step for making stiffer and high-temperature ones. Maybe stack something flat and heavy on it to keep it from deforming, and then use its own heat to cook out the lower-temperature volitiles, see what's left afterwards...
But also good to know that you can make a 5w one and it's got about a 5x safety margin still.
Neat! I bought some of this a while ago for igniting plasma in the microwave and did some similar experiments with heating pads, but I just mounted it taught between two thick metal leads. The copper tape seems to make more sense, I kept creating little arcs where the connection was made that ate through the fiber lol. I didnt think to laminate it, that certainly makes the material a lot more useful!
Great idea just in time for summer too!
You could maybe use some wide Kapton (polyimide) tape between the laminate pouch and the copper & carbon fibre as additional protection against melting the pouch. Might not even need the pouch if you can get thick enough Kapton tape, or have multiple layers instead.
We need pouches made of Kapton.
Wouldn't any thermal insulation be defeating the purpose of the heater aspect of it? :p
@@lacunate Kapton is heat resistant, about as heat insulating as normal pouch material. You can get it in rolls as adhesive tape.
Kapton is comparatively delicate. It’s not as tough as the laminating pouches. And it’s far more expensive. So I wouldn’t use it anywhere it’s not truly necessary.
@@tookitogo It might cost more, but it is the result that counts. If you want to make a custom heating element this way that can produce more heat without crincling up like normal pouches, you need other material. The price is less of importance if it can be made working.
The Kapton adhesive film and the Kapton insulation around NiCr-Ni thermocouple I have worked with so far were a lot thinner than pouch material, so yes, in that respect they are 'more brittle', but still sturdy enough.
The main reason for why there are no Kapton pouches is probably the color of Kapton.
Peeling the paper backing off copper tape! I became fed up with sore finger ends with copper tape being prodded underneath the finger nails, the Copper tape edge can be razor sharp!
I had to find a different method of paper peeling by scoring the length of the paper backing with a craft knife running along a metal ruler, I have eliminated the torture of copper razor blade under the finger nails!😊
"There's the smoke again. This is good" 😂😂
You'll smell that smoldering plastic for the rest of the week..
I imagine the carbon fiber by itself could take quite a bit of heat as long as it's not really flammable. That seems like it could be useful for things like 3D printer beds in some variation. It looks like a more even heat than the coiled copper trace you normally get. Not very heavy either which is good. I wonder if it could be more cost effective. Neat!
A most interesting and entertaining video, thanks Clive
The absence of the Explosion Containment Pie Dish has been acutely felt in this video.
I would really like to see you do a more extensive video applying different voltages or constant currents through various shapes on a thermal camera.
Possibly interesting variation: Just use the bare carbon fiber sheet, clip the gator clips to opposite corners, watch with the thermal imaging camera as you ramp up the power.
I have no idea what you're doing.
My brain shut down, I have a migraine.😭
I am just watching your video to relax.
Making the T-Virus is much easier to me.🧬
Excellent video and a nice project, but awww, I wish we coulda seen a video from the thermal camera when the carbon decided to say "I surrender"
I was pondering something like this as a way of getting some heat into the screenwash tank on my car, for the 3am starts with screenwash slushies.
There's a company here in the US that sells carbon fiber fabric into whatever clothing you want them to to make it taser proof. The videos seem pretty convincing
Very interesting video thanks Clive
i'm a simple man. i pressed like when he said: "there's that smoke again, which is good".
Great job!, you always make the most interesting and unique videos!
ah yes, the 762508 package surface mount resistor
That's very interesting, especially since it doesn't behave like a regular ohms resistor.
Maybe you can laminate it just by putting preasure on it and heating it
I've used copper foil tape to make "hidden" speaker wires. Just stick two parallel strips on the wall, and paint over them. I've also passed control signals through copper tape in the same way. Sometimes I would use just a single strip, and the earth as the return wire. Only low voltage/current stuff.
There was genuinely a commercial under-carpet electrical system that worked like that. Laminated copper strips and insulation piercing sockets. I was never really convinced at its safety or reliability.
could have had it warmer this winter.. now at 57 seconds in your video. Man, the thins you try and do when you have no idea!! Tried to hook up a waterheater element with a pcfan and alluminium cooler and stuff.. Love you Clive, you always make me laugh and think.. thankyouverymuch.
I could see a real use for this to make a temperature controlled oven (stable environment) for crystals and such. Wrap a pipe with kapton tape then a couple of strips of copper tape then wrap the pipe between but overlapping with the carbon fiber and finally more kapton tape over that. Solder wires on, put the control circuits and xtal oscillator inside and violoia. Quick and dirty temp stabilized xtal oscillator! Take care. Tootles... Wade 👍😎👍
This is great. The only thing I wish you had done Clive was kept the FLIR camera on it as it heated up so we could see how hot it got overall. Plus the pretty colors on the FLIR are pretty.
Since it didn't actually burst into flames even at very high settings it would probably make a very safe option for all kinds of heating devices.
Pipes in winter...solar panels...even Lithium battery heaters for very cold environments...possibilities for a wide range of uses!
I'd like to make some innersoles to keep the feet warm during winter.
I use cut off sleeves with holes cut for my thumbs that I wear underneath my gloves. When it's really cold I put hand warming pads in the cut off sleeves with the pads against the undersides of my wrists. The blood being warmed in my wrists keeps my hands warm and not putting the pads in my gloves keeps my hands from sweating.
Big Clive Is such a boss.
Wow, that actually is really cool! I did not expect the resistance to be soo low, I expected this to have like 5Mohm or something.
Why would carbon have a high resistance?
"There is the smoke again, this is good"
It usually helps when you have a fingernail or two. I always let one or two grow out a bit just for projects like this.
Also, anything will self destruct when you turn the voltage high enough.
Nails are always the most in demand for stuff just after you trim them.
Re thermal camera view; still looking at an electrical "pressure gradient": your highest temperature is fairly close to one terminal, your average is onhtye center, and the low temperature area is furthest from both terminals.
You might supply both eds of each copper strip in parralel to average that out better.
Maybe additional restriction on the positive wire would allow the pad thermals to "fill out" more.
I can get to resistor, diode or capacitor as possible components, but Im still reverse engineering electronic thru my native physics;vso I'd really like to see (via thermal) what each does to the heat distribution.
Explanation; the normal method is to think that electricity flows from + to -, and plan circuits accordingly, because the component order is easier to comprehend that way.
But electron flow is actually in the opposite direction.
So looking at the thermal view, traditional interpretation would assume a stream of water hitting a towel.
But actual flow is more akin to water backing up at a drain off of a field. If you want to flood the field, restrict the drain.
Just bought one for a diy dryer and was wondering how they work. Thanks!