personally im pretty emotionally invested in a certain mainland chinese celeb's sexuality, and i think that throws a light on my own relationship to being a lesbian and being closeted for the majority of my life. in china being queer is criminalized, you arent even allowed to talk about it in the media; by being confirmed in my theories it would be like a triumph against dictatorship & homophobia both. its a rabbit hole and im trying very hard not to engage with it too much. i wont ever get that confirmation, nor should i. if that person ever came out, it would likely be a forceful outing and i dont want that. also, its none of my business. i know all this, and still its very hard to unstick my brain from it entirely
@@yy-hj4br People be like the 2020s are so awful but this is just proof that we've come a long way. Some things got worse but respect and somewhat feminism in public has gotten so much better. Still got a long way to go but it's something.
I think I tend to view them as TOO real and therefore am never interested in their interpersonal drama the way I would be if it was a TV show. I feel like it’s either one or the other so you have the people who barely see them as real and then the folks who hate following their lives because it’s real and boring
i feel like it can sort of be the opposite, people *want* to see celebs as real, relatable people and in turn get super invested in their personal lives, refusing to acknowledge that they actually see so little of these celeb’s lives and don’t know them at all. like the example mina gives of taylor encouraging a parasocial relationship between her and her fans. taylor constantly tries to maker her fans feel like they’re her own friends, and a lot of them think they know her way better than they actually do, which is why they were so disappointed by her actions this year
yea I do feel like there's some sort of entitlement and "ownership" sometimes like, "since you get to have all this money and fame, we might as well use you for fun too"
I think the shipping of celebrities is the perfect example of how romance centric our society is, people saying things like "Friends don't do *insert something friends totally do*" which only hurts people by undermining friendships and put romantic relationships on a pedestal above all other types of relationships.
Yes. A few years ago I watched a romantic comedy type music that was more focused on a male and female friendship than romance and i think people liked it cause of this reason, they enjoyed watching friendships get appreciated as equally important and life changing
which is a direct consequence of media portraying romantic relationship above everything. friendship is rarely the main focus of books, movies and tv shows. and the whole narrative that romantic relationship is the most important thing in your life and that meeting your love partner is the only way to be happy doesn't really help much (it's especially targeted at young women who are made to believe being single is the ultimate curse. that's why most shippers are young women who live vicariously through their romantic fantasies). and don't get me started on friendship between a man and a woman that is so rarely portrayed in media, it's like a unicorn. most of the time the story ends up with them getting together or one of them falling in love with the other. and it actually influences people's beliefs that such friendship is impossible irl unless they have experienced it
Gentle reminder that the Heartstopper actor was accused of queerbaiting, pretending to be a bi man, because he was interacting with a female co-star. Just the mild taste of biphobia in our community. Delicious
as a bisexual person who also considers herself a swiftie, I don't understand AT ALL why so many gaylors exist. Taylor is literally the most heterosexual female celbrity I can think of
I feel like a prime example of inappropriately forcing a sexuality onto a celebrity in the modern sphere is Shawn Mendes. He has said several times he isn’t gay and has explained the harm in speculation as well as forcing your faves to come out, he’s been dealing with this since his vine days and it still hasn’t stopped to this day. I was surprised it wasn’t mentioned tbh
It also happens a lot with kpop idols, people will always invent gay love stories among members of the same group and will be more ok with a gay relationship instead of them dating some women, it’s just weird. Also nowadays someone’s sexual identity shouldn’t define them entirely nor people should judge them by it
as a bisexual teen I never understood why others decide to call these real people “queer baiters”, they’re real people with real feelings. especially with the kit situation it was so weird. I’ve liked both boys and girls, that’s quite literally the whole point of being bisexual.
Yeah its a big biphobia thing to assume someone is either "faking it for the attention" or "not willing to come out". I'd love to watch a video essay on why so many people assume people can't actually be bisexual because idk where it started.
Well there's many many celebs, jessie j for example, nicki minaj too who have said they're bi and later admitted they're not and it was just for publicity
@@jadebel7006 that’s true but that’s just a few who have been weird and did that.That doesn’t mean that most people who label themselves as bi are faking it for attention. Being bisexual shouldn’t make people automatically go “well they’re probably faking it”
Between what he did to Brittany and Janet I really can not stand that man. Really just out here causing trouble while the women around him face all of the backlash for it.
as someone who's bisexual I've had similar discussions about the "truthfullness" of my own sexuality as Kit Connor when I outed myself and I get mad about his situation on a whole different level.... and the fact that with him, people have issues figuring out the actor is not the character and he isn't obligated to date Joe Locke just because their characters do
Can we talk about how twisted it actually is to assume that whenever a man is affectionate with another man, it must be because he/they are gay? As if being affectionate is not something a straight guy can be (we want men to be more vulnerable, but when they are people are like- GAY), as if there aren't personality and cultural differences to take into account, as if even if a person is gay and affectionate that must mean they're into the other person. I've heard multiple times from gay men that stuff like that makes forming friendships harder for them because they're afraid their actions will be misinterpreted. Also, there is this weird and sanitized image young girls have of gay relationships and it's strange how much they dominate shipping, fanfic, fanart spaces with that image (the nsfw stuff being on the whole other end of that spectrum). My theory is that it was much easier for girls to imagine Harry and Louis together than to imagine them with other girls. Subconsciously, they knew it probably wasn't true.
I don't think ppl are ready for this conversation honestly. It's a really slippery slope between so many different variables I think it'd be hard for many to discuss without getting their feelings hurt or feeling attacked, atleast on the shipping side of things
My observation is it's mostly young teenage girls who do these kinds of male to male shipping, and there are gay couple influencers who serve this celebrity needs. I'm fine with most of it, but it's really annoying sometimes some girls think they know how gay relationships function just by shipping.
@miiamidblu they're not, because no one likes to get their feelings hurt and with same-sex relationships and friendships there are extra variables that make them even more complicated. It's a shame because if we were able to have these conversations, it truly think it would be beneficial to everyone.
@pearlscentI am sorry for your experience. You have all the right in the world to not want to have these conversations, if you feel like you aren't ready. Do you think no one should be having these conversations? Maybe some people are ready and would find it therapeutic even.
The whole show of labeling women as “the angel and the vamp” or “the loser and the model woman” is probably what makes me the most annoyed about all of this, it feel dehumanizing. I am glad you are covering all this because people’s empathy it’s so low
i know swifties were angry bc taylor very heavily sold an image of being an ally to marginalized groups and then proceeded to date the biggest bigot ever, which is valid of her fans. it’s also interesting bc her fans have never really criticized her before besides this instance. it nice to see that a majority of them didn’t blindly support her.
Swiftie here, I can confirm that the entire fandom was in shambles on every single platform. The only Taylor Swift content that was being recommended to me for weeks was just people begging her to break up with Matty. And when they did break up, it was like everything had changed (Ik it sounds super dramatic but bear with me) it’s just not been the same and as a member of the LGBTQIA+ community, I didn’t go through the same thing as others who deal with racism but it was definitely this huge sense of betrayal. And while Matty hasn’t made as many homophobic comments as he has racist (to my knowledge) I still feel very sad for Swiftie across the world. Sorry if my thoughts are super jumbled up, I just woke up and saw that Mina dropped a new video so I’m still half asleep
@@drawl13 someone of her status gives him a platform and shows him off she is basically endorsing him. And that's her prerogative. However her fans can also call her activism " performative".
@@drawl13while there def are ppl who used this as an excuse to hate on her, i don’t think most ppl were trying to make her apologize for his actions. they were mad that she probably knew about the things he’s done and even as a self-claimed ally, she chose to date him anyways. they were hurt and wanted her to explain why she would ever date someone who actively hurts them when she said she cared about her fans.
@@drawl13Let's not be naive, how many people knew him before she started showing up in public with him? Some did, but not as many as now. And please, she as the power to tell Phoebe Bridgers, "hey this guy will not be on the same stage as me", but the truth is she was already friends with him. If you have a friend that says the stuff he does and you say or do nothing, you're endosing him. Don't get me wrong I like her music, just not her lack of backbone. It's ok to not agree with your faves.
My take on celeb relationships is that most people do it for clout or as a one off, but every once in a while we’ll get one that is actually authentic, like Tom and Zendaya or Blake and Ryan. Also I hate when people get too involved in celeb’s business.
The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo is an INCREDIBLE fiction book set in the 50s and 60s about all of this. Hollywood and publicized relationships, fake marriages, and lavender marriages. Highly recommend to anyone interested in this topic
I was raised on gossip magazines. Literally. I was at the salon my mom worked out at least 3 times a week, and almost always, all day on Sunday (I could get the bored ladies to do my hair and in return I folded towels and swept hair, it was great) and salons are never short on gossip magazines. My mom loved them. She loves all of the reality shows. It's been really weird to look back and realize how much of that information just lives in my head! Or how much I used to know about these people. It's honestly bonkers. I'm so glad that phase of my life is over.
Lol funny that you mention it, my mom *loved* celebrity gossip culture. She also had subscriptions to tabloids and would watch shows like Access Hollywood or Extra on a near nightly basis. At some point (even as a kid) I was engrossed in all the scandals (affairs, fights, even jail sentences among popular stars). Now, I could not even care less.The whole celebrity world just feels empty, disingenuous, and so far removed from my own life that I just don't care about them.
I love that you're branching outside of just talking about fashion. I appreciate your take on parasocial relationships, sociology, the entertainment industry, I'll watch all of them!
Some of the 1975 songs are really cool actually. Well, actually, if you know the very, very, very popular song Colours by Halsey.... That's about him. So yeah, no escaping him sometimes
the angelina/brad/jen thing was part of my teens, and it was BIG back then. It was highly acknowledged that the mr mrs smith movie definetely brought them together, and everybody was obsessed, truly obsessed, with getting jen and brad back together. it was in the celeb magazines for YEARS, even here in Denmark
one celebrity relationship I had a parasocial relationship with back in the day was rihanna and chris brown. I think I was in like fifth or sixth grade and was like wow they should be together because they're both these cool young new artists who seem perfect together. so I cheered when they finally did get together, but then when chris brown assaulted rihanna, I felt so guilty. like I encouraged that to happen. obviously I was a child with no actual pull on their lives, but that was the beginning and end of my shipping celebrities.
The relentless fan feuding between Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter fandoms from years ago is another great example of society loving to pit talented, capable women against each other - it's so easy to forget that celebrity relationship drama is not a TV sport
Tbf I remember Olivia being the one who started the whole thing in the first place, and idr her actually trying to get her fans to stop? She seemed content to let sabrina receive backlash but I could be remembering it wrong
Yeesss I hate the speculation of celebrities' sexual orientation. Nobody owes you an explanation of who they like to date or sleep with, or any combination of the two (unless you are in some kind of relationship with them and they aren't being truthful.)
Can you imagine going in for a job interview and being asked if you’re a virgin? I’m walking out immediately. But for some reason we expect famous people to answer. And if they don’t we assume it’s because they have something to hide. We’ve come to expect so much private information from celebrities just because they share a small part of their lives in a way we enjoy that MUST mean they want to share everything.
You forgot to mention all the drama between Shakira, Piqué and Clara Chía. At least in Latin America and Spain this was the TEA a few months ago, specially because Shakira is very loved in Latin America. Also, all the songs she realeased about the cheating were hits in the region.
Not that people shouldn’t be talking about Matty Healy being a bad person, but people should realize that Taylor Swift is a celebrity and not a friend. She is not her fans’ friend. I doubt she really cares what they think in terms of who she decides to date. People need to look at her as a celebrity and not a close friend and perhaps that would make things feel less stressful to the fans. She is just someone who makes music.
I think that stems from the time when she used to invite fans over to her house and invite them backstage and so now all her fans are delusional and think shes their best friend and if they defend her enough she'll notice them or something
Why do you think the people criticizing Taylor Swift think of her as a friend?/gen As far as I understand, a big part of her brand is being kind, accepting & standing up against prejudice. It makes sense that these morals may seem hollow due to choosing to date someone who does not hold those same values & has proven to be prejudocial & unkind. She is being hypocritical & you do not have to view her as a friend to see that. Taylor Swift also should care what her fans think, not individually but as a whole. They are how she remains popular, continues her career & makes money. They also do a lot of free promotion for her online, I am not a fan of Taylow Swift but I see people promoting her a lot online; people I follow for other reasons promote her tour etc. Being part of popular culture massively helps a celebrity sucseed & remain relevent.
i had a victorian literature professor who explained the portrayal of the two women characters in Dracula by relating it to how Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Aniston were portrayed in the early 00s media. slideshow was included.
For me, the shipping culture in the Philippines are in the extreme end, compared to what Americans have. Shipping celebrities was very normal and even encouraged that “love teams” existed. It was hardly addressed too. Liza Soberano’s criticism of it, being a part of a love team herself, is such a breath of fresh air.
Loveteam is now embedded on Philippines pop culture but right now audiences are starting to get tired and see the crack on these loveteams image. I wonder when PH entertainment management realized that loveteams won't work with any actors and realized ppl are wanting for something new.
Nakakaumay na rin yung halos lahat ng romcom movies/dramas puro mga recycled loveteams ang bida. And tbh I am glad Liza and Enrique broke up, their relationship seemed more of a PR move to me lol.
I feel like the one of the most sickening matty things is barely talked about. Hearing him talk about watching porn that specifically degrades Black women was disgusting. I can’t help but feel like media outlets have neglected that in their reporting……and wonder why. We know why tho.
Mina can i just say I LOVE your outfit here!!!?? I always do, but the simplicity of the outfit, lack of accessories and your hairdo is perfectly styled!!
One thing I’ll never get is why people are acting like Timothee Chalamet is so far above Kylie Jenner intellectually and that it’s “below him” or whatever to date her. Just because he’s a good actor doesn’t mean he’s a genius or particularly highbrow, and Kylie may be controversial (and I’m not at all a fan fwiw) but she isn’t an idiot. They’re two rich, conventionally attractive A-listers. Hardly surprising that they’d meet if they’re getting invited to the same events and awards shows, and they’re both around the same age (I think) so it’s not super weird to me. Is anyone else surprised on the reaction of the media and their fans?
Yes I feel like his apparent intellectualism is all a persona. Like a soft boy always so polite and the most intelligent person persona, not that it is bad to be those things but he is only human
it's because Kylie Jenner got famous for... what exactly? it's not a talent of hers that put her into the fame. Also influencers generally don't have a good reputation regarding their intellectuality. Rightfully so in my opinion bc it's one of the most shallow buiseness ever
Because Timothee has a sophisticated, high brow image so people expect him date someone like Lily Depp, compared to Kylie Jenner who fans of Timothee (rightfully) perceive as ratchet and new rich
@@savanna9482 she seems like a good mom, too, at least from the videos. I personally wasn’t saying that she was below him, just that I feel like Timothée is probably performing a persona a lot of times. They could have a lot in common in the end we just don’t know.
@@meep1809Lily Depp is a new rich model who’s career has been plagued with comments about her lack of talent, and her attempts at acting haven’t exactly been high brow. The Depps and Paradises are not old money nor do they have reputations of being wonderfully behaved or uncontroversial. I am a Depp fan and adamantly against the kardashians but I can’t help but see implicit racism in comments with these comparisons. Kylie and Lily are both nepo babies with no significant skills or contributions and both families are new money. The only difference is one dates black men and had a baby out of wedlock while the other is skinny and blonde. Your use of “ratchet” is very telling.
The Kit situation breaks my heart. People have become so invested and ENTITLED to something that is not their business at all. These young actors could still be discovering themselves. They’re not “deceiving” or “lying”. I only came out when I was 21. The only difference is that these actors are on the public eye. I’m glad Kit could discover himself and come to terms with his sexuality, but i’m heartbroken that it was shared with the world in the way it did and i hope it serves as a lesson for how much entitlement exists within these parasocial dynamics.
for the point made at 22:00 , i highly recommended dan howell’s coming out video. everything that happened between dan and phil and their fans (coming from an old fan myself) is so, so sad. i cannot imagine not only having to hide my sexuality from friends and family but also from an entire fanbase who are constantly analyzing everything i do with my friend/boyfriend. i’m glad they’re in a better situation now.
This is Gen Z with the Queen Charlotte cast right now and I need you all to relax. I saw this with Tony Goldwyn and Kerry Washington during Scandal some years ago too. They have great chemistry, yes, and it's totally understandable to be curious about their romantic connection, but when I see people spin these wildly complicated narratives from one or two pictures it is absolutely insane. I could never get that invested.
@@Sun.Shine-Basically the leads are getting shipped a wild amount because they have chemistry in the show(their job) and have chemistry in interviews(their job) and in photoshoots(their job). They seem like good friends and the actor playing George has a partner already, so it’s literally just people spinning a narrative for the sake of it, bc ppl cannot fathom taking things for what they are and allowing ppl to just be friends. The thing I really don’t get is why people spin narratives that they’re secretly dating bc that would make at least one of them an active cheater?? They did the same thing with the little mermaid leads
Even in this video _about_ the problems with developing a parasocial fixation on strangers' relationships...we see comments exhibiting a parasocial fixation on celebs' relationships, judging which celeb relationships seem "authentic" to them, etc.
yeah, they try so hard to sound like experts on those strangers' personal lives. idk what makes them think they're superior or are in the right to deem relationships of strangers as fake. to analyse all those relationships like that is still very parasocial and creepy lol
I outlined 3 main reasons why people ship celebrities for myself: 1) most people (especially, western people) perceive physical affection as inheritantly romantic. so when they see platonical affection, unless it's a family member, they interpret it as romantic right away. which is a direct consequence of media portraying romantic relationship above everything. friendship is rarely the main focus of books, movies and tv shows. and the whole narrative that romantic relationship is the most important thing in your life and that meeting your love partner is the only way to be happy doesn't really help much (it's especially targeted at young women who are made to believe being single is the ultimate curse. that's why most shippers are young girls who live vicariously through their romantic fantasies). and don't get me started on friendship between a man and a woman that is so rarely portrayed in media, it's like a unicorn. most of the time the story ends up with them getting together or one of them falling in love with the other. and it actually influences people's believes that such friendship is impossible irl unless they've experienced it. 2) this one is mostly about queer celebrity ships in more conservative countries where you never see openly queer public personas. i agree with one of the reasons in the video - it's a safe way to explore your sexuality and queerness, find your community, and rise up social issues regarding lgbtq+. and I think it grew from shipping fictional characters (at least that is the reason I have certain head canons in comics, movies, tv shows, anime, etc.). even in 2023, we so rarely get good queer storylines and you never see queer main characters in mass culture creations. we've got all possible variations of straight romance but barely seen queer romance in mass media. so you kind of have to come up with your own stories. but it took a more extreme turn with shipping real people. 3) last one is a narrow group of fangirls who ship male idols with their male colleagues/friends. most of them belong to 1 or 2 but i think some hard stans do it subconsciously to cope with the fact that they can't have their idol for themselves. it's easier for them to see them with another guy than a girl because then they just think they wouldn't have had a chance even if they met them irl and move on (it's clearly very hard for some of them to accept that they wouldn't have any chance in any case). I also have seen fangirls who loved to see fan service from male idols but as soon as there were rumours of some of them being actually queer, they would turn on them right away. it's like they're ok with it as long as it's a fantasy but not when it's a reality.
i wish the third reason was explored a bit more in this video and how people sometimes hate a person or a relationship because they like the celebrity and think they have a chance with them so when they start dating, fanbases immediately hate on their love interest
the modern celebrity love triangle i think of is the whole olivia rodrigo, joshua bassett, and sabrina carpenter situation. that entire thing was crazy for what was basically a high school relationship that ended with joshua and sabrina getting death threats from fans.
Fr it was annoying reading comments on Joshua's page. There were people going: "She still wants you. Go back to her" or stuff like "What do you even see in Sabrina? She isn't half the person Liv is" even though he'd clearly moved on from Olivia? Who do people think they are telling others who to date and who not to, lmao
what i hate most about this drama is that people are giving it way too much attention, like aren't these celebrities basically high schoolers? Were they even 20 years old when the whole drama happened? like imagine someone talking this way about your highschool relationship, like these are children, it's obvious the relationship is not going to be healthy/work out well
@@spntageous5249Exactly! I love all of the songs that came out of that drama but the drama itself was so dumb. It was literally just Olivia and Josh broke up then later he started hookin' up with Sabrina. This is the "drama" that everyone couldn't stop talking about, just people moving on from their past relationships.
I recently learned that the Philippines has something called Love Teams, where couples are paired up over many projects and expected to do couple things and they may not be dating in real life but that cannot be publicly know.
That's true. People ship them in real life too like assuming they're together. It's a culture. But sometimes when they're ask they sometimes beat around the bush to keep fans interested. I used to be a fan of loveteams. I do like 1 right now but the other pair is in a relationship. Some loveteams are for professional, some for PR but there's also who are dating.
we need to discuss the impact of alexa chung and alex turner’s relationship. Their love letter gets posted at least once a month on twitter and they haven’t been dating for over 10 years!
Fun Fact: the whole shipping business actually started around The Beatles /The Rolling Stones era, Andrew Loog Oldham practically was the one who monetized it, so yeah there is no doubt that kpop companies do make a lot money on queerbait ships like Tae-kook. Also in Philippine media there is this thing called 'love teams' which is just another level of shipping-all so popular across Asia.
I remember this happened with the Paul Mescal/Phoebe Bridgers/Bo Burnham/Lorene Scafaria fiasco, where people accused Phoebe of cheating on Paul and then they went silent. There’s not that much publicly available and they’ve kept it intentionally private, but i remember people would bully the shit out of Phoebe for possibly cheating with Bo, and Phoebe herself got really pissed in an interview for bullying her for dating Bo.
The thing is I haven’t been able to find any articles or anyone talking about Bo and Lorene in this case, just Phoebe and Paul but idk if that’s bc Bo and Lorene were more private anyway so it’s just assumed they’ve been broken up for a while or something
@@EF-kk3vh Yeah Google still shows them as together when you just google them as people, but idk it's super messy and the fans have been really shit about it.
@@theladyprincess Yeah a lot of them have weirdly try to pin the blame on daisy edgar jones who's done nothing to our knowledge. it seems both antis an fans are trying to create some sort of cheating narrative on either party to blame for the break up.
Personally I’m at a stage in life where I find people put so much of themselves into celebrity (people they do not know) relationships. I can’t help roll my eyes or bombastic side eye, criminal offensive side eye 😒 people who say love is dead or true love doesn’t exist when certain couples break up or there’s speculation that they will. Like what 🤨. Also Mina mentioned this too but I’ve come to realize and hate how misogynistic celebrity love triangles and drama can be. It’s almost always two women and a man and it’s really the women who face the brunt of speculation and abuse. This is kinda related to the topic but photos of celebs just living their day to day really give me an ick now. I just saw a post of Tom holland and zendaya just out and about together and why are people just taking photos of them. It’s weird and creepy.
William Powell and Myrna Loy who did the Thin Man movies + a few other movies where they were also a couple, were really good friends, but their chemistry in the films was so good that people actually thought they were together even if they were in relationships with other people/married to other people.
@@rebeccag8589 They're my favorite duo! And the fact that it was their chemistry together off-screen while filming Manhattan Melodrama (IIRC) that got the two of them casted as Nick and Nora. Their friendship is just unmatched.
Overly involved fans may have saved Britany Spears from the conservatorship headed by her problematic, controlling father, but that seems rare. I feel that it is natural to be interested in any celebrity's life, you just have to know where the line is and not to cross it.
I wonder how much over involved fans and media influenced a conservatorship in the first place. A lot of her more dramatic actions that led to it being put in place seemed to be a direct response to not having any peace or respect.
It's honestly kinda a shame you didn't mention why Brad Pitt *actually* divorced Jen Aniston (according to her): she's infertile. It's heartbreaking and Brad Pitt is trash. All particularly ugly, too, especially considering the nasty media coverage and disrespectful and inappropriate interview questions opining over whether Jen would ever have kids.
Wow... Infertility is bad enough to deal with, even if you don't want but having to explain to family and everything... Can't imagine going through that in front of the entire world. My sympathies go out her.
I really don't get how quickly the Swifties turned on Joe Alwyn. Like the only explanation we get about the breakup is that it was a somewhat mutual decision because they were in different life stages and it was too hard to maintain the relationship. And then people got so mad, especially when he "expressed" that he was embarrassed by how Taylor basically admitted that she cheated on him and then still placed the blame of the breakup on him. And expressed is in quotation marks because none of this came directly from him, this was all just speculation based on anonymous sources. Edit: I actually feel like I might have the opposite journey with celebrity gossip than you. I more interested in it now than I was when I was a teen. I chalk it up to being more socially isolated in grad school than I ever had in the past, so the no-stakes celebrity gossip provides that sense of social interaction. It's also a lot easier to get invested when TikTok keeps feeding it to me.
I found that a lot of people sort of just got super upset because he’s inspired so many albums and got ready for a new album with breakup songs. I didn’t particularly like him in the first place because he seemed to never talk about Taylor at all to a point where it got a little confusing. I think the whole Matty thing interrupted the cycle and now everyone’s confused
@@yourlocalToeMuncher i actually really liked that he didn't talk about her at all. i would find it icky if a very private man who never shares about his relationships suddently started posting about her, would feel like reaching for fame. honestly, MORE celebrities could take a page out of this guy's book.
@@yutisimaI agree with you, it’s just that he kept on dodging questions about her. Not even acknowledging that he was dating her got a little weird considering he’s inspired so many albums and even helped to write songs
@@yutisima agree so much with this ! I have so much respect for Joe alwyn actually valuing a lowkey relationship bc it is in fact none of our buiseness. It's also an indicator that shows us that he is in the relationship bc of personal feelings and not bc of the fame. Also, it makes a lot of sense from his pov and his career ambitions bc he didn't want to be widely known as "Taylor Swift's boyfriend", but as Joe Alway, And honestly, he did a really great job with this bc I feel like outside of the swifties bubble most people didn't know who taylor was dating.
another interesting aspect with elizabeth taylor (one of my favorite actresses ever lol) was that her marriage to eddie fisher was very controverial since it's reported that elizabeth and eddie had an affiar that broke up his marraige with debbie reynolds who was a good friend of hers AND eddie was a great friend of elizabeth's previous husband, mike todd, who had died in a plane crash. also i feel like 'who's afraid of virignia woolf' is also relevant to the media frenzy regarding their relationship in addition to everything else you shared
The Larry thing reminded me of the situation with camilla and Lauren from fifth harmony which Lauren spoke about on a podcast a while ago saying it made her uncomfortable and not want to come out as bisexual
As a STRONG Taylor Swift fan, whenever somebody asks me “Who’s THIS song about?” My answer is always “Who’s to say?” It’s none of your business, and it’s none of mine.
@@theaudjob3267 my question exactly. She literally just broke up long relationship, why does everyone assume you seeing someone new is an immediate new relationship
As for Taylor - there are a lot of people who will identify as feminists but they will protect abusers who are their family, partners, friends, or business allies. Some "feminists" only care if the bad behaviour is directed at THEM. Nicki Minaj knew her partner was a convicted rapist when she married him - and she also protected her pedophile cousin, and Tekashi69 after he made child p*rn. If you are okay with dating a person like that, it speaks volumes. She's more controversial than she seems: she's the daughter of a billionaire stock broker who bought major stakes in her label before it signed her. She's radio silent when her fans doxx, harass, and send people death threats. She was the worst polluter of all private jet users - then she lied about not being on those flights and never took responsibility. She is not the progressive warrior of good people think: just a privileged woman looking to protect and expand her own privilege.
Preach. Watched a great video from Thinkpiece Tribe about Taylors specific brand of corporate feminism - only ever standing up for women and being an ally when it profits her. If she was actually someone who gave a sh-t, she would have immediately said something about Healys comments and racism to IceSpice, but she didn't, because it doesn't benefit her and she doesn't actually care.
THIS, THANK YOU. I feel like I've been saying this over and over since 2014 and no one gave a damn. IF Beyonce didn't come on stage with a giant "FEMINIST" sign, feminism would still be a bad word and Taylor would still be a huge pick me. It's never been that TS cares about other people; it's always been what she said it is about---her reputation.
i was in my harry and louis era on tumblr waaaay back and for me it was mostly for fun and a sense of community rather than for conspirology and lust for facts. they seemed almost like fiction characters rather real people. i was never a die hard fan but the community meant more than these two honestly. looking back now i feel rather ashamed for what the fan base put them through. we should never forget the difference between real people and fiction. you can literally ship any character imaginable but you should not project anything onto real people. we dont know them, they dont owe us information about anything in their personal lives. i still like to occasionally take interest in celebrity relationships such as zendaya and tom but at the end of they i give zero Fs about celebrities' relationship. they are too far away too detached from my reality to feel anything about anyone. i agree that time really changed my outlook on celebs and now i wonder why people even cared in the first place. also i hate the new trend of assuming, making up conspiracies or demanding the answers abt someones sexuality, stop pretending these people owe you shit and realise how badly it affects the community as a whole. thank you for making this video!
Commenting to recommend Thinkpiece Tribe recent video, "Taylor Swift and Corporate Feminism". Even Mina didn't mention the absolutely heinous comments Healy made about black women being brutalized, the guy is awful. Just as bad though, is someone like Taylor Swift profiting off of so many people who think she is an ally, a feminist, someone who speaks up against injustice, sitting back and keeping quiet while he says racist things about Ice Spice. She doesn't care, because it wont get her fame or money.
its crazy how many topics that I wouldn't have thought were interesting to me at all are made fascinating by Mina, I could literally listen to her talk all day.
Loved the video! The obsession with celebrities is so interesting to me. The only celebrity that would make me stop in my tracks if I saw them would be Kathy Bates. I know nothing about her personally, and frankly it's none of my business, but she is one of the greatest actors of all time. I think celebrities should be loved for the work they've created and their personal life isn't our business.
The 'Larry' shipping reminded me of Chris Colfer and Darren Criss at the height of Glee. People loved Kurt and Blaine so much that they pushed that relationship onto the actors and it was crazy. I think Chris said that it ruined his friendship with Darren :/
this is like the case of Kit Connor who was forced to come out as bisexual because his character in the show Hearstopper is a bisexual dating the main character( a guy) so when people saw Kit Connor in his personal life hanging out with a girl they all thought he was queerbating because he's not his character and he's not spending every waking moment dating his co-star
like, not only do bisexuals exist but it's so annoying how fans project the tv show relationship over the actors as if they're not their own different people who like or date other people
I definitely used to be more obsessed with celeb culture during my teen years, but I think working at a Disney park and seeing famous people on a pretty regular basis, I was just kinda over it. Like "Oh, that was so and so. Cool beans," and then I'd go back to what I was doing. But 2020-2021 was when I was truly over it because there were so many things that were more important than celebrities and their drama/relationships. I rarely keep up with any of it these days.
I rlly don't think Taylor and Tom were a PR relationship. What good did that do for them? Taylor being further known as a "serial dater" and Tom, an actor who was already well established, being made fun of for dating Taylor, a pop star that was getting an extreme amount of hate?
@@samiracosta962 I think people often forget that a "real" relationship and a "PR" relationship don't have to be mutually exclusive. You can be in a real relationship and still profit off it
I grew up Christian and something we were always taught was not to have idols. To not idolize any man as they are all imperfect. And that is a lesson I carry with me even today. I love Taylor swifts music, but I’m not invested in her life past seeing a few things here and there on my feed. I adore some of John Mulaney‘s sets, but I honestly didn’t know until months and months after the whole “scandal” that he and his wife split. I think that it’s important to see celebrities for what they are people who have a talent, people who have a gift, or people who just had a lot of privilege. And not these idols that can do no wrong and once they slip up once we toss them from their pedestals. Of course there is more nuance to this, I don’t listen to any of Kanye’s music for obvious reasons, and I can never even slightly begin to support certain other celebrities like Jared Leto. But I think the general message is important and a good guideline.
Zendaya and tom's relationship might be real but you cant deny it wasnt great PR for the movie in 2021 (they started dating right before trailers started dropping lol) just like now hes talking abt their relationship when he has to promote something
The fact that justin timberlake's entire career has never once faltered, yet britney spears has faced literal hell in literally every aspect of her life (publicly, privately, emotionally, mentally, and physically) and never once slandered his character to the media speaks volumes about his character vs. hers. he lacks any empathy and he never deserved being with someone like her. I feel like millennials & gen z were brainwashed to think he's a great, successful and likable guy - ask most men what they think about JT and they won't hesitate to find 385743 great things to say about him but wouldn't be able to say the same about britney. I really do hope that life plays the irony game that "what goes around... comes around" to someday bite JT in the ass for how much his actions played a role in the trajectory of britney spears' life and career. I will never support his work because he never deserved this level of fame in the first place. and PS - no one in NSYNC even likes him or talks to him anymore either, which is just another fact to note.
omg Mina, you should’ve covered love team culture in the Philippines! People go crazy back home over these couples and it definitely lessens opportunities for them to grow as stars since they always have to do work with the same person
Britney/Justin was such bullshit. You can tell in her interview with Diane Sawyer that she had tentatively agreed to admit to it before the interview, but they probably didn't even sleep together. You can see it all over her face, the blinking getting faster as she's being shamed. Justin and Britney's management probably orchestrated the entire story together behind closed doors. Remember, this was at a time where Justin was trying to navigate the tricky transition from teen boy band heartthrob to adult sex symbol. He couldn't be the next Usher or Marky Mark when he's perceived as a virgin or "nice boy". Britney got the raw deal
I was a huge Britney fan, and just remembered how bad the media and Justin/his team was to her. But I was young and didn’t realized how much worst it was. I’m forever a Justin T. hater 🤷🏻♀️
I love how much you talk about queerness in this video. So many people overlook just how much they are invested in the cis/het normativity of these PR relationships because of the homophobia our culture internalizes and perpetuates. The public is happy to default to the idea that all celebrities are straight, and as soon as they speculate that they might not be they begin to dehumanize those celebrities. That's probably where the pressure to be in PR relationships comes from, just the speculation they might be queer could ruin their careers in a very homophobic industry and society. And especially now, when there is so much out and proud hatred for queer people, especially trans people, it feels like these PR relationships are just another sign of us backsliding into more traditional ideas of how to perform gender in relationships.
Hey Mina! Totally agree with you. The more I mature as an individual and learn about celebrity culture, the way I consume media is so much more reflective and empathetic compared to when I was kid reading magazines. P.s. I love your video essays. I studied communications for 2 years so your content analysis really scratches that interest for me. Keep it up!
Especially with shipping two male celebrities: A lot of times it’s brought up by seeing them being affectionate with each other. If they were two women, everyone would think they’re gal pals. Boys are often taught not to show vulnerability or affection, so people can be quick to think the bare minimum is romantic. On the flip side, two women in a romantic relationship showing affection are more often assumed to be just platonic, really good friends. Especially in early 2000s, fandoms were looking for any queer representation. We were quick to look at two guys holding hands or having a positive moment as romantic.
In american and western culture maybe in asían cultures males are every affectionate when they are friends and nobody thinks they are gay, but thanks to western media dominance i think that Will change
I remember some Larry Stylinson shippers claiming that Louis's child is fake just because they couldn't accept that larry wasn't real 😭😭😭😭 like there were accs abt 'proof' of how his son was fake and a doll or something and they attacked when Louis's son's mother posted a pic of her pregnant by saying that she was faking her pregnant belly. Some people are so-
So, here's my two cents. The fakest and the most fabricated Hollywood celebrity relationship i've ever seen is probably, Shawn and Camilla. On the other hand, Zendaya and Tom relationship felt authenthic. One of the rarest moments where a Hollywood relationship that i consider actually, real. Edit: alright this made everyone got mad lmao when this were all started as 'two cents' 💀
One of my favorite recent celebrity relationship news is the rumor that Aaron Taylor-Johnson cheated on his wife with his co-star in “Bullet Train” Joey King. And the fans were excited and was praising both Joey & Aaron. For those who don’t know Aaron met his wife Sam when she was working on this movie & casted Aaron in it. He was 17/18 at the time and she was a fully grown woman. Not only was their age gap 23 years, but she had job power over him. It was also rumored that she met him when she was much younger. The fans of Aaron Taylor-Johnson call his wife “Granny” & do not like her. Joey King on the other hand is not that liked compared to Aaron. She gets a lot of hate online for how she looks and her acting. However, when it’s rumored she & Aaron did it together the fans were ecstatic and hopeful that Aaron would leave his wife. However, it appeared to be fake & he’s still with her.
Is their situation weird? Yes. But they seem to have a nice, private life with their kids and he's spoken before about how even if he hadn't met her, he would have gotten married young. His fans are ageist and are a perfect epitome of what Mina talks about here when fans pretend they know anything about their faves. It's strange to root for someone you like to get divorced, especially when there's kids involved.
@@elenymm Yeah it’s weird to root for your favorite celebrity to get divorced. It’s also weird to date a man when you’re old enough to be his mother and the fact that you could’ve put his career in jeopardy. I’m glad he’s happy it just feels so gross.
@haleydunn634 It is weird optics, but not every situation is the same. I remember him when he was just starting his career. He always struck me as mature for his age and as someone who wants different things for himself than most people his age. You know? What I am glad is that his career seems to be quite on track these days. Hope to see him in some good things in the future.
@@elenymmokay but no She directed his break out role. She actively pushed for him to be cast in it. Which probably started when he was 17. She left her husband of over a decade shortly after they did the movie. Her kids from her first marriage are just a few years older than Aaron. This has nothing to do with ageism and everything to do with the optics of it. Bc it just straight up looks like grooming. Millie Bobbie Brown is getting married, she's barely 20. Ofc some people comment that she's a bit young but she is marrying someone of her age. Nobody would have really batted an eyelash if Aaron had gotten married at 22 with a woman that's like 25. Or if Aaron and Sam had gotten together later in life (which, they probably would have gotten weird comments what with her kids being the same age but it would have been a lot less ruthless) Priyanka Chopra and Nick Jonas have a ten year age gap where the woman is "much" older and no one is commenting on it anymore. Not ageism, it's just creepy
i feel some part of me is still very angry with taylor swift (for reference i’m a qpoc: queer person of color) and confused about…everything about her, not just her choice in relationship partners. and the ice spice stuff really seriously set me off. and that’s what parasocial relationships are really all about. you feel like you have an understanding of a person and then you realize you don’t because you don’t know them outside of their public behavior and you either fall deeper in, pull back, or something in between or beyond these two things when shit hits the fan. i’m not done with parasocial relationships entirely, but i’m definitely over having deep ones. there’s too much going on in everyone’s life right now and as someone who’s been in a transition period for nearly 5 years now and is always facing uncertainty, i can’t take the stress and pressure and energy strong parasocial relationships require anymore. and i’ll never think of taylor the same way after this year. there’s absolutely no one to blame for that and blame wouldn’t make me feel any better and i have so many more thoughts about this that i haven’t processed yet bc it’s all happened so recently, but i think i’ve just accepted that she’s not what i think she is. and that’s okay. no celebrity is what i think they are unless i know them outside of being a celebrity. and for all the efforts that are made to get fans as close as possible to celebrities, i’ve found myself wondering more and more lately if i’ve ever *really* known the people i idolize. (also, mina you’re serving in this video. you’re serving in every video. 🩵)
Thank you for saying this! While I'm not a Swifite and haven't been once since I was a child, the fact that she willingly dated Matty Healy really bothered me. I truly don't understand how anyone could even consider a relationship with someone like that. It takes time to overcome parasocial relationships. I don't know how old you are, but I know from experience that it gets easier the older you get. I sometimes even find myself thinking about a celebrity in that way and I need to step back and remind myself that I actually don't know this person.
22:29 A very interesting phenomenon that I just very recently heard about is the love teams in the Philippines, they are a pair of actors who have great on-screen chemistry so they are paired throughout their careers, some do date off-screen, even marry, others are forced to pretend they are dating or at least never reveal they are not which makes it difficult for them to get other roles and do other things IRL.
The worst co-star shipped by fans has to be Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver. It hasn't really spilled outside of the fandom, but it's all over Reddit. People thought since they had chemistry in the Sequels they were secretly together even though Adam was and is married, and Daisy is engaged. What made it so scary was how extreme it got. It resulted in Adam's wife getting doxxed and stocked and comments about her and his child that are despicable. They made him out to be this saviour even though he really loved Daisy. Though it is clearly not true it persisted and played a huge role in how they both interact with the public.
I'm very new to the kpop scene, but when I first figured out the shipping culture I didn't really understand what fans were seeing and it very much felt like they were incredibly delusional. When I saw the boy groups hugging or cuddling or slapping each others asses I just assumed it was a very normal brotherly things that guys who are with each other almost 24/7 for years would be comfortable with, mixed with those dumb games of gay chicken that straight guys I grew up with always played with each other just to get attention. And yeah, some of them might actually be queer and their affection might have romantic or sexual undertones, but there's a very well-known dating ban in most idol companies which I knew about even before I started listening to any groups so I assumed that would apply within groups as well. FFS when a male idol hugs a female idol too closely knetz go nuts and companies freak out, can you imagine the scandal if any of these ships turned out to have even a speck of truth that got made public?! If any intragroup romances do happen, we're never ever going to hear about them bc the companies are gonna hermetically seal that shit to avoid scandal. Keeping that in mind, the fact that the idols who are more affectionate don't immediately take a step back and scale back the skinship as soon as they find out fans are shipping them tells me that they don't actually take shipping seriously as something fans actually believe, that they understand it's all just fantasy and it's not going to stop them from being themselves with their teammates, which is honestly pretty admirable. After a while, I think I figured out something that applies both to shipping culture and to any celebrity couple that's at all public about their relationship. People folllowing them and creating fanfic and getting emotionally invested are not doing so with the real people. The celebrities, whether intentionally or not, have a public image they present to the world. What we see of them is only what they choose to show on camera, and even if they're totally genuine it's still really only a fraction of who the actually are as a person. So that public image morphs into this sort of character template that fans and audiences will use to play out whatever fantasies or drama they are craving in their own life. Starved for interesting gay romances in the rest of your media? Well good news bc there's a whole bevy of gorgeous male idols with affectionate public personas that you can feed on by writing whatever scenarios you want for them in fanfic form. Working through a bad breakup with someone who cheated? Don't worry, peruse any tabloid and you'll find a celebrity who may or may not be going through the same thing that you can latch onto and project all your hopes and regrets onto by ranting on twitter about how they shouldn't make the same mistakes you did. For the most part it's harmless, and at least within kpop it's more evident that fans understand they're just shipping slightly warped versions of the real people rather than being actually delulu and assuming the sexuality of idols by hyperanalyzing every muscle twitch when they glance at their ship.
I guess it's because you are new you haven't seen the darker side of shipping but it leads to a lot of hate to other band members that supposedly are in the way of the relationship. Also companies and members are 100% aware of shipping and do fanservice, it could be innocent like having two members spend time together on camera, or some gay play pretend game which is usually pretty cringe if you ask me. Anyways, like with most things the extremes aren't good
@@dopex89 extremes are the worst in any kind of community. extreme shipping leads to people fighting for no reason and there is nothing worse than bringing it up to idols (like you can have assumptions and fantasies but keep them to yourself or at least make sure your idols dont see it 🤦), extreme stanning one member makes them hate other members and not even support the whole group and they fight other solo stans all the time, then you have delusional fangirls who think they have a chance with their "oppa" (nothing is worse than companies forcing idols to flirt with fans during fan events feeding their delusions 🤢 at least with fan service between members, i know they are somewhat close and spend a lot of time together. imagine doing it to strangers who worship you. that's how obsessed creeps and stalkers are born. and finally, you have toxic fans who shit on anyone who even breathes wrong into the direction of their faves. but judging something by worst cases isn't a good thing. if people know their limits and don't take things too seriously, i don't think it's a problem. i feel like it's much more effective to have a chill approach as an example than argue with people - it really doesn't help 😅
I love this episode so much! The craziest PR couple stunt is the russian band t.a.T.u that were cast as lesbian teens and made to act out a fantasy romance for the public and male gaze in the early 2000s - they did the All the things she said song
I was a huge taylor swift fan since I was a kid. But unfortunatly recently something happened that upset me. I'm a gen z fashion designer from Iran and because of where I'm from I don't get a lot of opportunities to show my work. When I was in high school(5 years ago) I sent taylor a bunch of sketches I had done inspired by reputation album and I did it just to say how much I idolize her. I recently saw one of my sketches made into one of her looks from her eras tour and another designer was credited. It made me really sad cause I thought if anyone stood up for young artists and dreamers it would be taylor😔
I absolutely love your content! The way you explained the Love Triangle Framing made me sick to my stomach with the accuracy and just how grossly misogynistic it was/is. Thank you for another great video! Hope all is going well for you!!
Fan shipping of real people is a major problem in China. Previously, some shows and movies based on written works featuring homosexual relationships were produced and released with adjustments made to remove all such relationships. However, fans of the original works carried the knowledge of such relationships into the shows and movies, and then applied the knowledge to the actors. It resulted in major damage to the actor's careers at the time, and it still affects their ability to accept certain roles and interact with other celebrities.
I think some other big controversial relationships include: Olivia Rodrigo, Joshua Basset and Sabrina Carpenter being a whole years long public spectacle coming from Olivia and Josh dating while filming a show together, them breaking up semi-quietly, and Olivia releasing songs that blew up from throwing accusations over Sabrina being a home wrecker and becoming a back and forth between them musically. Beyoncé and Jay Z starting dating when she was 19 and he was 31 has always boiled under the surface because of the age gap, him cheating, people believing he preyed on her because he knew she’d be big, etc. Today it’s kind of buried because they’re both older, and they’ve become one of THE biggest power couples and created so much art and such together And then there’s Will Smith and Jada who always had drama between them, and they had little to no issue sharing their issues very publicly such as cheating, butting heads with differing parenting styles, fights they’ve had, and way too much more lol There were even people speculating that Halle Bailey and her love interest in the little mermaid might be in love even though they’re both in very committed and separate relationships. Stuff like that could put a lot of tension and mistrust on relationships, like we’d seen with Sydney Sweeney and her co-star
Oh please, free pass? As if she hasnt been slutshamed for years for dating like 8 (?) guys in her 20s and writing a few songs about her experience. This media idea that she is serial dater has been going on all the time even when she was in a 6 year relationship with Joe. Not to mention other hate that she has been getting for years about being fake, her weight etc and the whole Kanye phonecall fiasco when she was cancelled for sth she didnt really do. Im not sayingh we shouldn't speak up and criticise her when she does questionable things like dating Matty, of course we should, as she has a great impact on so many younger woman, but saying she always gets a free pass is a quite a reach
@@MW-xd6hyher having to deal with misogyny doesn't equal being rightfully scrutinized and criticized for her frankly ignorant actions and performative activism. So yea taylor swift has always been given a free pass to be the way she is
It definitely raises an eyebrow when a celeb (or anyone really) who has shown activism and progressivism dates someone who is at complete conflict to their supposed values. It’s not like I’d ever pressure anyone to break up with someone but it does make me question a person’s allyship when they choose to be with someone who’s problematic side isn’t exactly a secret. I get rose coloured glasses and all but it also feels… privileged for the person to overlook their partner’s misdeeds because it doesn’t affect them.
Seeing those old magazine covers from the early 2000s was so fun. Remembering pop culture from when I was in middle school will never not be a good time.
I used to be a hardcore Larrie when I was a teenager and I remember going down their tags and stuff recently on social media and it's insane how people go as far as to say that Louis' son isn't his (even though they look exactly alike) and that everything is a hoax to hide their sexuality even now outside of 1D in a rather accepting society. Also gay men get the most LGBTQ+ representation in all forms of media
Some people still think his son is fake unfortunately. And his son is like 8 now, only a few years till he starts using social media n stuff as preteens have social media these days and I feel bad for him because I don't want him to go down a rabbit hole and discover that people believe his father isn't his real father.
1:35 I am all for not calling him Matty because he is a grown man and I feel like it adds to this “boyish charm” that he tries to have to excuse his mad behaviour.
I remember both the B.S and J.T blow up and I was a Britney Fan because of how much I did not like Justin Timberlake. He rubbed me the wrong way as a Backstreet Boy fan and then adding what he did to Janet Jackson just solidified my dislike of him. With you bringing up relationships, what got me were how people did backflips to justify Taylor Swift dating a horrid man. Several white women on Twitter, Tikotk and other places mentioned "sometimes you want to a date a garbage guy".
The shipping of real people can also have actual consequences for the people being shipped if fans get out of hand. Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo from the untamed were shipped by fans and it got so out of hand Xiao Zhan had to publicly apologize and they can't be seen in public together. Its also (allegedly) why ao3 was banned in china.
Yeah honestly the hype around celebrity drama is crazy. You don't see other employees getting bothered for what they do outside of work. Being an actor or musician shouldn't be a 24/7 job where you can't turn your persona off because everyone is always analyzing you.
I subscribed to your channel a while ago after watching a couple of videos I really liked, but for some reason ended up not coming back to it much. Today this one was reccomended when I was looking for something to watch on my lunch break and I remembered why I liked your content so much: fun, intelligent, and interesting!
5:29 also Elizabeth Taylor got with the marries Eddie Fisher in the aftermath of her husbands and his beat friends' death. What a messy love life she had
People being invested in someone's virginity or sexuality is just weird, sad and concerning, like are you okay
Do you need a kit kat? (I just had to say that, sorry. Carry on)
@@mallorycarpinski1160bahahahha my first thought too 😭😭
Nope
personally im pretty emotionally invested in a certain mainland chinese celeb's sexuality, and i think that throws a light on my own relationship to being a lesbian and being closeted for the majority of my life. in china being queer is criminalized, you arent even allowed to talk about it in the media; by being confirmed in my theories it would be like a triumph against dictatorship & homophobia both. its a rabbit hole and im trying very hard not to engage with it too much. i wont ever get that confirmation, nor should i. if that person ever came out, it would likely be a forceful outing and i dont want that. also, its none of my business. i know all this, and still its very hard to unstick my brain from it entirely
@@sunflower-cv5vmyes
Did Angelina break your marriage, imagine asking a grown man something like that, basically removing all accountability from him. Wow Nene
And then her going on to guilt Brittney?? What a sleaze. Justin was gross as hell too. Can't believe that shit used to be normal. Tf.
@@NeoNovastarthe fact that he told the media about them having sex is such a violation of privacy and consent and so inconsiderate.
The celebrity gossip culture back then was... something.
Yes!! The early 2000s news footage was so cringey. Yikes
@@yy-hj4br People be like the 2020s are so awful but this is just proof that we've come a long way. Some things got worse but respect and somewhat feminism in public has gotten so much better. Still got a long way to go but it's something.
This is a great example showing many people don’t see celebrities as real people and just as these fictional figures for our entertainment
I think I tend to view them as TOO real and therefore am never interested in their interpersonal drama the way I would be if it was a TV show. I feel like it’s either one or the other so you have the people who barely see them as real and then the folks who hate following their lives because it’s real and boring
i feel like it can sort of be the opposite, people *want* to see celebs as real, relatable people and in turn get super invested in their personal lives, refusing to acknowledge that they actually see so little of these celeb’s lives and don’t know them at all.
like the example mina gives of taylor encouraging a parasocial relationship between her and her fans. taylor constantly tries to maker her fans feel like they’re her own friends, and a lot of them think they know her way better than they actually do, which is why they were so disappointed by her actions this year
The polarisation between mysteriousness and being relatable
It is because people only see or look money fame and beauty in them and then criticize them for having any or all of these!
yea I do feel like there's some sort of entitlement and "ownership" sometimes like, "since you get to have all this money and fame, we might as well use you for fun too"
I think the shipping of celebrities is the perfect example of how romance centric our society is, people saying things like "Friends don't do *insert something friends totally do*" which only hurts people by undermining friendships and put romantic relationships on a pedestal above all other types of relationships.
I wish I could like this comment a hundred more times
Yes. A few years ago I watched a romantic comedy type music that was more focused on a male and female friendship than romance and i think people liked it cause of this reason, they enjoyed watching friendships get appreciated as equally important and life changing
👏👏
which is a direct consequence of media portraying romantic relationship above everything. friendship is rarely the main focus of books, movies and tv shows. and the whole narrative that romantic relationship is the most important thing in your life and that meeting your love partner is the only way to be happy doesn't really help much (it's especially targeted at young women who are made to believe being single is the ultimate curse. that's why most shippers are young women who live vicariously through their romantic fantasies). and don't get me started on friendship between a man and a woman that is so rarely portrayed in media, it's like a unicorn. most of the time the story ends up with them getting together or one of them falling in love with the other. and it actually influences people's beliefs that such friendship is impossible irl unless they have experienced it
Amen 👏👏👏👏
Gentle reminder that the Heartstopper actor was accused of queerbaiting, pretending to be a bi man, because he was interacting with a female co-star.
Just the mild taste of biphobia in our community. Delicious
Wasn't he forced to come out just to fight those accusations? Man that so so wild and disgusting honestly
@@ludovicatirone4304yup
yeah, he was 18 years old. most of us werent prepare to come out at his age and people pressured him globally. twitter is SICK
@@RenataSantiago7 It was so disheartening to see my own community eat this boy alive I swear to god
yea, painful for me too. we are invisible already, after that seems we all aggressively out and outing people aggressively. i dont relate to It
as a bisexual person who also considers herself a swiftie, I don't understand AT ALL why so many gaylors exist. Taylor is literally the most heterosexual female celbrity I can think of
THANK YOU
I am attracted to some gay men. I think sexuality does not dictate attraction no?
Because of that “You need to calm down” song and if I’m being honest, it was mostly about her rather than the queer community.
@@Boahemaaas far as I understand, “Gaylors” are fans who believe that Taylor is secretly bisexual/pansexual, not women fans who are attracted to her.
I just dont like that people feel entitled to obsess over someones sexuality. I think it’s weird.
I feel like a prime example of inappropriately forcing a sexuality onto a celebrity in the modern sphere is Shawn Mendes. He has said several times he isn’t gay and has explained the harm in speculation as well as forcing your faves to come out, he’s been dealing with this since his vine days and it still hasn’t stopped to this day. I was surprised it wasn’t mentioned tbh
Thank you, i've gotten into arguements and rants about how wrong this is but no one cares and it's sick tbh
It also happens a lot with kpop idols, people will always invent gay love stories among members of the same group and will be more ok with a gay relationship instead of them dating some women, it’s just weird.
Also nowadays someone’s sexual identity shouldn’t define them entirely nor people should judge them by it
Elizabeth Taylor is the closest thing we will ever have to a real life soap opera character.
The fact that only a few low budget movies have been made about her life blows my mind.
You clearly haven't met my dad.
@@mhr7801 i wanna meet your dad
The liz taylor/debbie reynolds/eddie fisher situation now makes me think of scandoval.. i am only on the intro so guessing that's discussed
Im surprised she didn't bring up the fact that Eddie Fisher was married to Debbie Reynolds at the time when Elizabeth was with him
as a bisexual teen I never understood why others decide to call these real people “queer baiters”, they’re real people with real feelings. especially with the kit situation it was so weird. I’ve liked both boys and girls, that’s quite literally the whole point of being bisexual.
oh no that man is wearing a skirt he must be gay or be queerbaiting us.... wasnt the point to stop gendering clothes???
Yeah its a big biphobia thing to assume someone is either "faking it for the attention" or "not willing to come out". I'd love to watch a video essay on why so many people assume people can't actually be bisexual because idk where it started.
Well there's many many celebs, jessie j for example, nicki minaj too who have said they're bi and later admitted they're not and it was just for publicity
@@jadebel7006 that’s true but that’s just a few who have been weird and did that.That doesn’t mean that most people who label themselves as bi are faking it for attention. Being bisexual shouldn’t make people automatically go “well they’re probably faking it”
*Babe, a new Mina just dropped**
Why did I hear Caitlyn Rileys "Baaaaeeeebaah" in my head when I read this
The new and improved Mina just came on the market
Literally what my boyfriend says to me
it took a while for me to get this lmao
010-0 00pp
the biggest Michael Jackson wannabe calling Britney a Madonna wannabe is ironic and trashy
i read this comment before i got to that part and i already knew who were you talking about. truly ironic indeed
Seriously, i hardly know shit about the guy but that comment alone is so nasty, i reslly dont like him. Wow.
Justin Timberlake always suffered from untalented white dude syndrome.
Between what he did to Brittany and Janet I really can not stand that man. Really just out here causing trouble while the women around him face all of the backlash for it.
I still can't believe people pressured Kit Connor to come out and he was just 18 years old..
OMGGGG I love your videos
I'm super angry about that. No one should come out before they're ready.
as someone who's bisexual I've had similar discussions about the "truthfullness" of my own sexuality as Kit Connor when I outed myself and I get mad about his situation on a whole different level.... and the fact that with him, people have issues figuring out the actor is not the character and he isn't obligated to date Joe Locke just because their characters do
Can we talk about how twisted it actually is to assume that whenever a man is affectionate with another man, it must be because he/they are gay? As if being affectionate is not something a straight guy can be (we want men to be more vulnerable, but when they are people are like- GAY), as if there aren't personality and cultural differences to take into account, as if even if a person is gay and affectionate that must mean they're into the other person. I've heard multiple times from gay men that stuff like that makes forming friendships harder for them because they're afraid their actions will be misinterpreted. Also, there is this weird and sanitized image young girls have of gay relationships and it's strange how much they dominate shipping, fanfic, fanart spaces with that image (the nsfw stuff being on the whole other end of that spectrum). My theory is that it was much easier for girls to imagine Harry and Louis together than to imagine them with other girls. Subconsciously, they knew it probably wasn't true.
I don't think ppl are ready for this conversation honestly. It's a really slippery slope between so many different variables I think it'd be hard for many to discuss without getting their feelings hurt or feeling attacked, atleast on the shipping side of things
My observation is it's mostly young teenage girls who do these kinds of male to male shipping, and there are gay couple influencers who serve this celebrity needs. I'm fine with most of it, but it's really annoying sometimes some girls think they know how gay relationships function just by shipping.
@miiamidblu they're not, because no one likes to get their feelings hurt and with same-sex relationships and friendships there are extra variables that make them even more complicated. It's a shame because if we were able to have these conversations, it truly think it would be beneficial to everyone.
@pearlscentI am sorry for your experience. You have all the right in the world to not want to have these conversations, if you feel like you aren't ready. Do you think no one should be having these conversations? Maybe some people are ready and would find it therapeutic even.
@@xylemnguyen223I agree. It's strangely stereotypical against lgbt as well.
The whole show of labeling women as “the angel and the vamp” or “the loser and the model woman” is probably what makes me the most annoyed about all of this, it feel dehumanizing. I am glad you are covering all this because people’s empathy it’s so low
i know swifties were angry bc taylor very heavily sold an image of being an ally to marginalized groups and then proceeded to date the biggest bigot ever, which is valid of her fans. it’s also interesting bc her fans have never really criticized her before besides this instance. it nice to see that a majority of them didn’t blindly support her.
Swiftie here, I can confirm that the entire fandom was in shambles on every single platform. The only Taylor Swift content that was being recommended to me for weeks was just people begging her to break up with Matty. And when they did break up, it was like everything had changed (Ik it sounds super dramatic but bear with me) it’s just not been the same and as a member of the LGBTQIA+ community, I didn’t go through the same thing as others who deal with racism but it was definitely this huge sense of betrayal. And while Matty hasn’t made as many homophobic comments as he has racist (to my knowledge) I still feel very sad for Swiftie across the world. Sorry if my thoughts are super jumbled up, I just woke up and saw that Mina dropped a new video so I’m still half asleep
@@yourlocalToeMuncher honestly I feel betrayed too.. especially as being a POC.. I decided I'll never spend any of my money on Taylor ever again..
@@drawl13 someone of her status gives him a platform and shows him off she is basically endorsing him. And that's her prerogative. However her fans can also call her activism " performative".
@@drawl13while there def are ppl who used this as an excuse to hate on her, i don’t think most ppl were trying to make her apologize for his actions. they were mad that she probably knew about the things he’s done and even as a self-claimed ally, she chose to date him anyways. they were hurt and wanted her to explain why she would ever date someone who actively hurts them when she said she cared about her fans.
@@drawl13Let's not be naive, how many people knew him before she started showing up in public with him? Some did, but not as many as now. And please, she as the power to tell Phoebe Bridgers, "hey this guy will not be on the same stage as me", but the truth is she was already friends with him. If you have a friend that says the stuff he does and you say or do nothing, you're endosing him. Don't get me wrong I like her music, just not her lack of backbone. It's ok to not agree with your faves.
My take on celeb relationships is that most people do it for clout or as a one off, but every once in a while we’ll get one that is actually authentic, like Tom and Zendaya or Blake and Ryan. Also I hate when people get too involved in celeb’s business.
I don't buy the Tom and Zendaya thing. I don't feel the chemistry.
@@Boahemaabffr
@@Boahemaa..ok??
@@Boahemaa maybe they don't want to be another spectacle
@@Boahemaa you don’t feel bc they didn’t showcase it
The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo is an INCREDIBLE fiction book set in the 50s and 60s about all of this. Hollywood and publicized relationships, fake marriages, and lavender marriages. Highly recommend to anyone interested in this topic
i have this book on my shelf!!!! thank u ill read it asap
I love this book so much!! When Mina talks about Elizabeth Taylor, it kinda reminded me of Evelyn lol.
@@icedgarlicOMG YES FRRR 😭
God I love Harry so much 🥰🥹
I've been wanting to read this book
I was raised on gossip magazines. Literally. I was at the salon my mom worked out at least 3 times a week, and almost always, all day on Sunday (I could get the bored ladies to do my hair and in return I folded towels and swept hair, it was great) and salons are never short on gossip magazines. My mom loved them. She loves all of the reality shows. It's been really weird to look back and realize how much of that information just lives in my head! Or how much I used to know about these people. It's honestly bonkers. I'm so glad that phase of my life is over.
Lol funny that you mention it, my mom *loved* celebrity gossip culture. She also had subscriptions to tabloids and would watch shows like Access Hollywood or Extra on a near nightly basis. At some point (even as a kid) I was engrossed in all the scandals (affairs, fights, even jail sentences among popular stars). Now, I could not even care less.The whole celebrity world just feels empty, disingenuous, and so far removed from my own life that I just don't care about them.
@@TownieSimBuilds Exactly! Like I am a hoot at trivia games but I really wish I wasn't so immersed in it.
@@LittleRedTeaCake Haha oh no, I'm so guilty of that too! 😆 We're two peas in a pod in that regard.
@@TownieSimBuilds That we are :)
not "literally"
I love that you're branching outside of just talking about fashion. I appreciate your take on parasocial relationships, sociology, the entertainment industry, I'll watch all of them!
God I'm so happy being oblivious to celebrity relationships. I was so content having no idea who Matty Healy was until like this week.
Some of the 1975 songs are really cool actually.
Well, actually, if you know the very, very, very popular song Colours by Halsey.... That's about him. So yeah, no escaping him sometimes
@@soph996 damn, i didn't know that.
the angelina/brad/jen thing was part of my teens, and it was BIG back then. It was highly acknowledged that the mr mrs smith movie definetely brought them together, and everybody was obsessed, truly obsessed, with getting jen and brad back together. it was in the celeb magazines for YEARS, even here in Denmark
Remember the team Jen t shirts?
Same. And I hated Angelina for years because of this. It took me a while to realize how stupid this is.
I was fine until i read Denmark 😁 like, wow
@@Sun.Shine- haha, yes their story sweeped the globe! :D
@@likeseptemberifall exactly, me too. it's only now that i see we shouldn't support a cheater getting back with jen, if that was in fact the case
one celebrity relationship I had a parasocial relationship with back in the day was rihanna and chris brown. I think I was in like fifth or sixth grade and was like wow they should be together because they're both these cool young new artists who seem perfect together. so I cheered when they finally did get together, but then when chris brown assaulted rihanna, I felt so guilty. like I encouraged that to happen. obviously I was a child with no actual pull on their lives, but that was the beginning and end of my shipping celebrities.
how that man was never cancelled or arrested
The relentless fan feuding between Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter fandoms from years ago is another great example of society loving to pit talented, capable women against each other - it's so easy to forget that celebrity relationship drama is not a TV sport
Sadly Sabrina and Josh suffered the worst throughout that “scandal”, but I’m glad they’re ok now.
Tbf I remember Olivia being the one who started the whole thing in the first place, and idr her actually trying to get her fans to stop? She seemed content to let sabrina receive backlash but I could be remembering it wrong
she did not start any drama. all she did was release dl and the fans speculated And turned it messy
@@thayibaahmed824you are so naive if you don't underatand 0 its her PR team if not
Yeesss I hate the speculation of celebrities' sexual orientation. Nobody owes you an explanation of who they like to date or sleep with, or any combination of the two (unless you are in some kind of relationship with them and they aren't being truthful.)
Can you imagine going in for a job interview and being asked if you’re a virgin? I’m walking out immediately. But for some reason we expect famous people to answer. And if they don’t we assume it’s because they have something to hide. We’ve come to expect so much private information from celebrities just because they share a small part of their lives in a way we enjoy that MUST mean they want to share everything.
You forgot to mention all the drama between Shakira, Piqué and Clara Chía. At least in Latin America and Spain this was the TEA a few months ago, specially because Shakira is very loved in Latin America. Also, all the songs she realeased about the cheating were hits in the region.
Not that people shouldn’t be talking about Matty Healy being a bad person, but people should realize that Taylor Swift is a celebrity and not a friend. She is not her fans’ friend. I doubt she really cares what they think in terms of who she decides to date. People need to look at her as a celebrity and not a close friend and perhaps that would make things feel less stressful to the fans. She is just someone who makes music.
I think that stems from the time when she used to invite fans over to her house and invite them backstage and so now all her fans are delusional and think shes their best friend and if they defend her enough she'll notice them or something
Taylor is the one who created this narrative that her fans are her friends. She fuels their delusions for capitalist gains
its not so much about parasocial relationships and more about her performative activism.
@@Sara-dp5dgthey are delusional and have no life , clearly
Why do you think the people criticizing Taylor Swift think of her as a friend?/gen
As far as I understand, a big part of her brand is being kind, accepting & standing up against prejudice. It makes sense that these morals may seem hollow due to choosing to date someone who does not hold those same values & has proven to be prejudocial & unkind.
She is being hypocritical & you do not have to view her as a friend to see that.
Taylor Swift also should care what her fans think, not individually but as a whole. They are how she remains popular, continues her career & makes money. They also do a lot of free promotion for her online, I am not a fan of Taylow Swift but I see people promoting her a lot online; people I follow for other reasons promote her tour etc. Being part of popular culture massively helps a celebrity sucseed & remain relevent.
i had a victorian literature professor who explained the portrayal of the two women characters in Dracula by relating it to how Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Aniston were portrayed in the early 00s media. slideshow was included.
Lucy and Mina?? who's who?
Wait. Weren‘t they like…friends?
Anyway, who do I pay to get my hands on that slideshow?
For me, the shipping culture in the Philippines are in the extreme end, compared to what Americans have. Shipping celebrities was very normal and even encouraged that “love teams” existed. It was hardly addressed too. Liza Soberano’s criticism of it, being a part of a love team herself, is such a breath of fresh air.
Yep true
it's unfortunate Liza got harshly attacked for speaking out on it though :(( shows how entitled some people can be when it comes to shipping
@@beandle4428 That's filipinos for ya.
She was even called being ungrateful for speaking up how she feels about it lol.
Loveteam is now embedded on Philippines pop culture but right now audiences are starting to get tired and see the crack on these loveteams image. I wonder when PH entertainment management realized that loveteams won't work with any actors and realized ppl are wanting for something new.
Nakakaumay na rin yung halos lahat ng romcom movies/dramas puro mga recycled loveteams ang bida. And tbh I am glad Liza and Enrique broke up, their relationship seemed more of a PR move to me lol.
I feel like the one of the most sickening matty things is barely talked about. Hearing him talk about watching porn that specifically degrades Black women was disgusting. I can’t help but feel like media outlets have neglected that in their reporting……and wonder why. We know why tho.
Fr. And interestingly, almost all the TH-camrs have avoided mentioning it (even Mina). Its been wild to see.
Wait what???
Idk the videos I’ve seen mention that
Mina can i just say I LOVE your outfit here!!!?? I always do, but the simplicity of the outfit, lack of accessories and your hairdo is perfectly styled!!
Totally agree. I would love to see the shoes Mina’s wearing with this look!
One thing I’ll never get is why people are acting like Timothee Chalamet is so far above Kylie Jenner intellectually and that it’s “below him” or whatever to date her. Just because he’s a good actor doesn’t mean he’s a genius or particularly highbrow, and Kylie may be controversial (and I’m not at all a fan fwiw) but she isn’t an idiot. They’re two rich, conventionally attractive A-listers. Hardly surprising that they’d meet if they’re getting invited to the same events and awards shows, and they’re both around the same age (I think) so it’s not super weird to me. Is anyone else surprised on the reaction of the media and their fans?
Yes I feel like his apparent intellectualism is all a persona. Like a soft boy always so polite and the most intelligent person persona, not that it is bad to be those things but he is only human
it's because Kylie Jenner got famous for... what exactly? it's not a talent of hers that put her into the fame. Also influencers generally don't have a good reputation regarding their intellectuality. Rightfully so in my opinion bc it's one of the most shallow buiseness ever
Because Timothee has a sophisticated, high brow image so people expect him date someone like Lily Depp, compared to Kylie Jenner who fans of Timothee (rightfully) perceive as ratchet and new rich
@@savanna9482 she seems like a good mom, too, at least from the videos. I personally wasn’t saying that she was below him, just that I feel like Timothée is probably performing a persona a lot of times. They could have a lot in common in the end we just don’t know.
@@meep1809Lily Depp is a new rich model who’s career has been plagued with comments about her lack of talent, and her attempts at acting haven’t exactly been high brow. The Depps and Paradises are not old money nor do they have reputations of being wonderfully behaved or uncontroversial. I am a Depp fan and adamantly against the kardashians but I can’t help but see implicit racism in comments with these comparisons. Kylie and Lily are both nepo babies with no significant skills or contributions and both families are new money. The only difference is one dates black men and had a baby out of wedlock while the other is skinny and blonde. Your use of “ratchet” is very telling.
Mina has always been concise and straightforward with her insights. We will support her no matter what happens.
The Kit situation breaks my heart. People have become so invested and ENTITLED to something that is not their business at all. These young actors could still be discovering themselves. They’re not “deceiving” or “lying”. I only came out when I was 21. The only difference is that these actors are on the public eye. I’m glad Kit could discover himself and come to terms with his sexuality, but i’m heartbroken that it was shared with the world in the way it did and i hope it serves as a lesson for how much entitlement exists within these parasocial dynamics.
for the point made at 22:00 , i highly recommended dan howell’s coming out video. everything that happened between dan and phil and their fans (coming from an old fan myself) is so, so sad. i cannot imagine not only having to hide my sexuality from friends and family but also from an entire fanbase who are constantly analyzing everything i do with my friend/boyfriend. i’m glad they’re in a better situation now.
This is Gen Z with the Queen Charlotte cast right now and I need you all to relax. I saw this with Tony Goldwyn and Kerry Washington during Scandal some years ago too. They have great chemistry, yes, and it's totally understandable to be curious about their romantic connection, but when I see people spin these wildly complicated narratives from one or two pictures it is absolutely insane. I could never get that invested.
Exactly!!!!!!
Yeah Tony and Kerry was a crazy one beach both were married with kids. People are crazy
Wait what now? What about QC cast?
I feel so bad for India and Corey. A joke here and there is fine I guess but this is just too much
@@Sun.Shine-Basically the leads are getting shipped a wild amount because they have chemistry in the show(their job) and have chemistry in interviews(their job) and in photoshoots(their job). They seem like good friends and the actor playing George has a partner already, so it’s literally just people spinning a narrative for the sake of it, bc ppl cannot fathom taking things for what they are and allowing ppl to just be friends. The thing I really don’t get is why people spin narratives that they’re secretly dating bc that would make at least one of them an active cheater?? They did the same thing with the little mermaid leads
Even in this video _about_ the problems with developing a parasocial fixation on strangers' relationships...we see comments exhibiting a parasocial fixation on celebs' relationships, judging which celeb relationships seem "authentic" to them, etc.
yeah, they try so hard to sound like experts on those strangers' personal lives. idk what makes them think they're superior or are in the right to deem relationships of strangers as fake. to analyse all those relationships like that is still very parasocial and creepy lol
I outlined 3 main reasons why people ship celebrities for myself:
1) most people (especially, western people) perceive physical affection as inheritantly romantic. so when they see platonical affection, unless it's a family member, they interpret it as romantic right away. which is a direct consequence of media portraying romantic relationship above everything. friendship is rarely the main focus of books, movies and tv shows. and the whole narrative that romantic relationship is the most important thing in your life and that meeting your love partner is the only way to be happy doesn't really help much (it's especially targeted at young women who are made to believe being single is the ultimate curse. that's why most shippers are young girls who live vicariously through their romantic fantasies). and don't get me started on friendship between a man and a woman that is so rarely portrayed in media, it's like a unicorn. most of the time the story ends up with them getting together or one of them falling in love with the other. and it actually influences people's believes that such friendship is impossible irl unless they've experienced it.
2) this one is mostly about queer celebrity ships in more conservative countries where you never see openly queer public personas. i agree with one of the reasons in the video - it's a safe way to explore your sexuality and queerness, find your community, and rise up social issues regarding lgbtq+. and I think it grew from shipping fictional characters (at least that is the reason I have certain head canons in comics, movies, tv shows, anime, etc.). even in 2023, we so rarely get good queer storylines and you never see queer main characters in mass culture creations. we've got all possible variations of straight romance but barely seen queer romance in mass media. so you kind of have to come up with your own stories. but it took a more extreme turn with shipping real people.
3) last one is a narrow group of fangirls who ship male idols with their male colleagues/friends. most of them belong to 1 or 2 but i think some hard stans do it subconsciously to cope with the fact that they can't have their idol for themselves. it's easier for them to see them with another guy than a girl because then they just think they wouldn't have had a chance even if they met them irl and move on (it's clearly very hard for some of them to accept that they wouldn't have any chance in any case). I also have seen fangirls who loved to see fan service from male idols but as soon as there were rumours of some of them being actually queer, they would turn on them right away. it's like they're ok with it as long as it's a fantasy but not when it's a reality.
i wish the third reason was explored a bit more in this video and how people sometimes hate a person or a relationship because they like the celebrity and think they have a chance with them so when they start dating, fanbases immediately hate on their love interest
the modern celebrity love triangle i think of is the whole olivia rodrigo, joshua bassett, and sabrina carpenter situation. that entire thing was crazy for what was basically a high school relationship that ended with joshua and sabrina getting death threats from fans.
Fr it was annoying reading comments on Joshua's page. There were people going: "She still wants you. Go back to her" or stuff like "What do you even see in Sabrina? She isn't half the person Liv is" even though he'd clearly moved on from Olivia? Who do people think they are telling others who to date and who not to, lmao
what i hate most about this drama is that people are giving it way too much attention, like aren't these celebrities basically high schoolers? Were they even 20 years old when the whole drama happened? like imagine someone talking this way about your highschool relationship, like these are children, it's obvious the relationship is not going to be healthy/work out well
like how do they take a 17 year old's relationship drama seriously
@@spntageous5249Exactly! I love all of the songs that came out of that drama but the drama itself was so dumb. It was literally just Olivia and Josh broke up then later he started hookin' up with Sabrina. This is the "drama" that everyone couldn't stop talking about, just people moving on from their past relationships.
I recently learned that the Philippines has something called Love Teams, where couples are paired up over many projects and expected to do couple things and they may not be dating in real life but that cannot be publicly know.
That's true. People ship them in real life too like assuming they're together. It's a culture. But sometimes when they're ask they sometimes beat around the bush to keep fans interested. I used to be a fan of loveteams. I do like 1 right now but the other pair is in a relationship. Some loveteams are for professional, some for PR but there's also who are dating.
we need to discuss the impact of alexa chung and alex turner’s relationship. Their love letter gets posted at least once a month on twitter and they haven’t been dating for over 10 years!
Fun Fact: the whole shipping business actually started around The Beatles /The Rolling Stones era, Andrew Loog Oldham practically was the one who monetized it, so yeah there is no doubt that kpop companies do make a lot money on queerbait ships like Tae-kook. Also in Philippine media there is this thing called 'love teams' which is just another level of shipping-all so popular across Asia.
I remember this happened with the Paul Mescal/Phoebe Bridgers/Bo Burnham/Lorene Scafaria fiasco, where people accused Phoebe of cheating on Paul and then they went silent. There’s not that much publicly available and they’ve kept it intentionally private, but i remember people would bully the shit out of Phoebe for possibly cheating with Bo, and Phoebe herself got really pissed in an interview for bullying her for dating Bo.
only know Bo in this but I love the drama
The thing is I haven’t been able to find any articles or anyone talking about Bo and Lorene in this case, just Phoebe and Paul but idk if that’s bc Bo and Lorene were more private anyway so it’s just assumed they’ve been broken up for a while or something
another thing is some of phoebe's fans trying to drag daisy edgar jones in the narrative lmao
@@EF-kk3vh Yeah Google still shows them as together when you just google them as people, but idk it's super messy and the fans have been really shit about it.
@@theladyprincess Yeah a lot of them have weirdly try to pin the blame on daisy edgar jones who's done nothing to our knowledge. it seems both antis an fans are trying to create some sort of cheating narrative on either party to blame for the break up.
Personally I’m at a stage in life where I find people put so much of themselves into celebrity (people they do not know) relationships. I can’t help roll my eyes or bombastic side eye, criminal offensive side eye 😒 people who say love is dead or true love doesn’t exist when certain couples break up or there’s speculation that they will. Like what 🤨.
Also Mina mentioned this too but I’ve come to realize and hate how misogynistic celebrity love triangles and drama can be. It’s almost always two women and a man and it’s really the women who face the brunt of speculation and abuse.
This is kinda related to the topic but photos of celebs just living their day to day really give me an ick now. I just saw a post of Tom holland and zendaya just out and about together and why are people just taking photos of them. It’s weird and creepy.
William Powell and Myrna Loy who did the Thin Man movies + a few other movies where they were also a couple, were really good friends, but their chemistry in the films was so good that people actually thought they were together even if they were in relationships with other people/married to other people.
I love these films and both Powell and Loy are so talented. I'm so excited to see a comment about them.
@@rebeccag8589 They're my favorite duo! And the fact that it was their chemistry together off-screen while filming Manhattan Melodrama (IIRC) that got the two of them casted as Nick and Nora. Their friendship is just unmatched.
@@rebeccag8589Same!
Hee hee thanks for bringing out the old school ❤
Overly involved fans may have saved Britany Spears from the conservatorship headed by her problematic, controlling father, but that seems rare. I feel that it is natural to be interested in any celebrity's life, you just have to know where the line is and not to cross it.
I wonder how much over involved fans and media influenced a conservatorship in the first place. A lot of her more dramatic actions that led to it being put in place seemed to be a direct response to not having any peace or respect.
It's honestly kinda a shame you didn't mention why Brad Pitt *actually* divorced Jen Aniston (according to her): she's infertile. It's heartbreaking and Brad Pitt is trash. All particularly ugly, too, especially considering the nasty media coverage and disrespectful and inappropriate interview questions opining over whether Jen would ever have kids.
Wow... Infertility is bad enough to deal with, even if you don't want but having to explain to family and everything... Can't imagine going through that in front of the entire world. My sympathies go out her.
I really don't get how quickly the Swifties turned on Joe Alwyn. Like the only explanation we get about the breakup is that it was a somewhat mutual decision because they were in different life stages and it was too hard to maintain the relationship. And then people got so mad, especially when he "expressed" that he was embarrassed by how Taylor basically admitted that she cheated on him and then still placed the blame of the breakup on him. And expressed is in quotation marks because none of this came directly from him, this was all just speculation based on anonymous sources.
Edit: I actually feel like I might have the opposite journey with celebrity gossip than you. I more interested in it now than I was when I was a teen. I chalk it up to being more socially isolated in grad school than I ever had in the past, so the no-stakes celebrity gossip provides that sense of social interaction. It's also a lot easier to get invested when TikTok keeps feeding it to me.
I found that a lot of people sort of just got super upset because he’s inspired so many albums and got ready for a new album with breakup songs. I didn’t particularly like him in the first place because he seemed to never talk about Taylor at all to a point where it got a little confusing. I think the whole Matty thing interrupted the cycle and now everyone’s confused
@@yourlocalToeMuncher i actually really liked that he didn't talk about her at all. i would find it icky if a very private man who never shares about his relationships suddently started posting about her, would feel like reaching for fame. honestly, MORE celebrities could take a page out of this guy's book.
@@yutisimaI agree with you, it’s just that he kept on dodging questions about her. Not even acknowledging that he was dating her got a little weird considering he’s inspired so many albums and even helped to write songs
@@yutisima agree so much with this ! I have so much respect for Joe alwyn actually valuing a lowkey relationship bc it is in fact none of our buiseness. It's also an indicator that shows us that he is in the relationship bc of personal feelings and not bc of the fame. Also, it makes a lot of sense from his pov and his career ambitions bc he didn't want to be widely known as "Taylor Swift's boyfriend", but as Joe Alway, And honestly, he did a really great job with this bc I feel like outside of the swifties bubble most people didn't know who taylor was dating.
also agree with this one. Joe was by far the least problematic boyfriend, he had his own life and career and I totally understand that he valued it.
another interesting aspect with elizabeth taylor (one of my favorite actresses ever lol) was that her marriage to eddie fisher was very controverial since it's reported that elizabeth and eddie had an affiar that broke up his marraige with debbie reynolds who was a good friend of hers AND eddie was a great friend of elizabeth's previous husband, mike todd, who had died in a plane crash. also i feel like 'who's afraid of virignia woolf' is also relevant to the media frenzy regarding their relationship in addition to everything else you shared
The Larry thing reminded me of the situation with camilla and Lauren from fifth harmony which Lauren spoke about on a podcast a while ago saying it made her uncomfortable and not want to come out as bisexual
As a STRONG Taylor Swift fan, whenever somebody asks me “Who’s THIS song about?” My answer is always “Who’s to say?” It’s none of your business, and it’s none of mine.
The fact Taylor ever dated someone like Matty says a lot about her tbh
Yeah it shows she likes cool dudes
Were they actually dating? I thought they were just hooking up
@@xvvxvvxvvx "matt healy is sooo cool alpha gigachad W" 🤓
@@theaudjob3267 my question exactly. She literally just broke up long relationship, why does everyone assume you seeing someone new is an immediate new relationship
@@s1rencore sleeping with someone is not the same as dating someone
As for Taylor - there are a lot of people who will identify as feminists but they will protect abusers who are their family, partners, friends, or business allies. Some "feminists" only care if the bad behaviour is directed at THEM. Nicki Minaj knew her partner was a convicted rapist when she married him - and she also protected her pedophile cousin, and Tekashi69 after he made child p*rn. If you are okay with dating a person like that, it speaks volumes. She's more controversial than she seems: she's the daughter of a billionaire stock broker who bought major stakes in her label before it signed her. She's radio silent when her fans doxx, harass, and send people death threats. She was the worst polluter of all private jet users - then she lied about not being on those flights and never took responsibility. She is not the progressive warrior of good people think: just a privileged woman looking to protect and expand her own privilege.
Preach. Watched a great video from Thinkpiece Tribe about Taylors specific brand of corporate feminism - only ever standing up for women and being an ally when it profits her. If she was actually someone who gave a sh-t, she would have immediately said something about Healys comments and racism to IceSpice, but she didn't, because it doesn't benefit her and she doesn't actually care.
THIS, THANK YOU. I feel like I've been saying this over and over since 2014 and no one gave a damn. IF Beyonce didn't come on stage with a giant "FEMINIST" sign, feminism would still be a bad word and Taylor would still be a huge pick me. It's never been that TS cares about other people; it's always been what she said it is about---her reputation.
i was in my harry and louis era on tumblr waaaay back and for me it was mostly for fun and a sense of community rather than for conspirology and lust for facts. they seemed almost like fiction characters rather real people. i was never a die hard fan but the community meant more than these two honestly. looking back now i feel rather ashamed for what the fan base put them through.
we should never forget the difference between real people and fiction. you can literally ship any character imaginable but you should not project anything onto real people. we dont know them, they dont owe us information about anything in their personal lives.
i still like to occasionally take interest in celebrity relationships such as zendaya and tom but at the end of they i give zero Fs about celebrities' relationship. they are too far away too detached from my reality to feel anything about anyone. i agree that time really changed my outlook on celebs and now i wonder why people even cared in the first place.
also i hate the new trend of assuming, making up conspiracies or demanding the answers abt someones sexuality, stop pretending these people owe you shit and realise how badly it affects the community as a whole. thank you for making this video!
Commenting to recommend Thinkpiece Tribe recent video, "Taylor Swift and Corporate Feminism". Even Mina didn't mention the absolutely heinous comments Healy made about black women being brutalized, the guy is awful. Just as bad though, is someone like Taylor Swift profiting off of so many people who think she is an ally, a feminist, someone who speaks up against injustice, sitting back and keeping quiet while he says racist things about Ice Spice. She doesn't care, because it wont get her fame or money.
its crazy how many topics that I wouldn't have thought were interesting to me at all are made fascinating by Mina, I could literally listen to her talk all day.
Loved the video! The obsession with celebrities is so interesting to me. The only celebrity that would make me stop in my tracks if I saw them would be Kathy Bates. I know nothing about her personally, and frankly it's none of my business, but she is one of the greatest actors of all time. I think celebrities should be loved for the work they've created and their personal life isn't our business.
The magazine that said “surgery cures frigid wives” and the articles about “perverts” working and being outed by the government really hurt 😢
The 'Larry' shipping reminded me of Chris Colfer and Darren Criss at the height of Glee. People loved Kurt and Blaine so much that they pushed that relationship onto the actors and it was crazy. I think Chris said that it ruined his friendship with Darren :/
this is like the case of Kit Connor who was forced to come out as bisexual because his character in the show Hearstopper is a bisexual dating the main character( a guy) so when people saw Kit Connor in his personal life hanging out with a girl they all thought he was queerbating because he's not his character and he's not spending every waking moment dating his co-star
like, not only do bisexuals exist but it's so annoying how fans project the tv show relationship over the actors as if they're not their own different people who like or date other people
I definitely used to be more obsessed with celeb culture during my teen years, but I think working at a Disney park and seeing famous people on a pretty regular basis, I was just kinda over it. Like "Oh, that was so and so. Cool beans," and then I'd go back to what I was doing. But 2020-2021 was when I was truly over it because there were so many things that were more important than celebrities and their drama/relationships. I rarely keep up with any of it these days.
I think the most memorable PR relationship for me was Taylor Swift and Tom Hiddleston - the "i
I rlly don't think Taylor and Tom were a PR relationship. What good did that do for them? Taylor being further known as a "serial dater" and Tom, an actor who was already well established, being made fun of for dating Taylor, a pop star that was getting an extreme amount of hate?
I thought they were PR at the time but idk if I think that anymore, idk...
I still feel for him from that. I’m just glad he’s now in a real relationship with someone who actually treats her partners, real or otherwise, well.
@@samiracosta962 I think people often forget that a "real" relationship and a "PR" relationship don't have to be mutually exclusive. You can be in a real relationship and still profit off it
I think it was "I
I grew up Christian and something we were always taught was not to have idols. To not idolize any man as they are all imperfect. And that is a lesson I carry with me even today. I love Taylor swifts music, but I’m not invested in her life past seeing a few things here and there on my feed. I adore some of John Mulaney‘s sets, but I honestly didn’t know until months and months after the whole “scandal” that he and his wife split. I think that it’s important to see celebrities for what they are people who have a talent, people who have a gift, or people who just had a lot of privilege. And not these idols that can do no wrong and once they slip up once we toss them from their pedestals. Of course there is more nuance to this, I don’t listen to any of Kanye’s music for obvious reasons, and I can never even slightly begin to support certain other celebrities like Jared Leto. But I think the general message is important and a good guideline.
i'm exactly the same! christian upbringing can do something right i guess lol
@@youtubesupportsfascism i don't think that's christianity you're talking about. this sounds like a handmaid's tale theology.
Zendaya and tom's relationship might be real but you cant deny it wasnt great PR for the movie in 2021 (they started dating right before trailers started dropping lol) just like now hes talking abt their relationship when he has to promote something
You're absolutely right but have y'all ever noticed how it's always Tom doing majority of the PR?
@@zelda7059 wdym?
The fact that justin timberlake's entire career has never once faltered, yet britney spears has faced literal hell in literally every aspect of her life (publicly, privately, emotionally, mentally, and physically) and never once slandered his character to the media speaks volumes about his character vs. hers. he lacks any empathy and he never deserved being with someone like her. I feel like millennials & gen z were brainwashed to think he's a great, successful and likable guy - ask most men what they think about JT and they won't hesitate to find 385743 great things to say about him but wouldn't be able to say the same about britney. I really do hope that life plays the irony game that "what goes around... comes around" to someday bite JT in the ass for how much his actions played a role in the trajectory of britney spears' life and career. I will never support his work because he never deserved this level of fame in the first place.
and PS - no one in NSYNC even likes him or talks to him anymore either, which is just another fact to note.
omg Mina, you should’ve covered love team culture in the Philippines! People go crazy back home over these couples and it definitely lessens opportunities for them to grow as stars since they always have to do work with the same person
Britney/Justin was such bullshit. You can tell in her interview with Diane Sawyer that she had tentatively agreed to admit to it before the interview, but they probably didn't even sleep together. You can see it all over her face, the blinking getting faster as she's being shamed. Justin and Britney's management probably orchestrated the entire story together behind closed doors. Remember, this was at a time where Justin was trying to navigate the tricky transition from teen boy band heartthrob to adult sex symbol. He couldn't be the next Usher or Marky Mark when he's perceived as a virgin or "nice boy". Britney got the raw deal
I was a huge Britney fan, and just remembered how bad the media and Justin/his team was to her. But I was young and didn’t realized how much worst it was. I’m forever a Justin T. hater 🤷🏻♀️
I'm obsessed with your hair and makeup this video, for some reason. I feel like it is so fitting for your features.
I love how much you talk about queerness in this video. So many people overlook just how much they are invested in the cis/het normativity of these PR relationships because of the homophobia our culture internalizes and perpetuates. The public is happy to default to the idea that all celebrities are straight, and as soon as they speculate that they might not be they begin to dehumanize those celebrities. That's probably where the pressure to be in PR relationships comes from, just the speculation they might be queer could ruin their careers in a very homophobic industry and society. And especially now, when there is so much out and proud hatred for queer people, especially trans people, it feels like these PR relationships are just another sign of us backsliding into more traditional ideas of how to perform gender in relationships.
watching this after a few of the couples in the happily ever after section ended things not so happily is certifiable whiplash :(((
Mina out here bringing back my childhood celebrity couple obsession with Brangelina and Justin/Britney LOL
Hey Mina! Totally agree with you. The more I mature as an individual and learn about celebrity culture, the way I consume media is so much more reflective and empathetic compared to when I was kid reading magazines.
P.s. I love your video essays. I studied communications for 2 years so your content analysis really scratches that interest for me. Keep it up!
Especially with shipping two male celebrities: A lot of times it’s brought up by seeing them being affectionate with each other. If they were two women, everyone would think they’re gal pals. Boys are often taught not to show vulnerability or affection, so people can be quick to think the bare minimum is romantic.
On the flip side, two women in a romantic relationship showing affection are more often assumed to be just platonic, really good friends.
Especially in early 2000s, fandoms were looking for any queer representation. We were quick to look at two guys holding hands or having a positive moment as romantic.
In american and western culture maybe in asían cultures males are every affectionate when they are friends and nobody thinks they are gay, but thanks to western media dominance i think that Will change
I remember some Larry Stylinson shippers claiming that Louis's child is fake just because they couldn't accept that larry wasn't real 😭😭😭😭 like there were accs abt 'proof' of how his son was fake and a doll or something and they attacked when Louis's son's mother posted a pic of her pregnant by saying that she was faking her pregnant belly. Some people are so-
Backdrop, fit, vibes 10/10 ✨
So, here's my two cents. The fakest and the most fabricated Hollywood celebrity relationship i've ever seen is probably, Shawn and Camilla. On the other hand, Zendaya and Tom relationship felt authenthic. One of the rarest moments where a Hollywood relationship that i consider actually, real.
Edit: alright this made everyone got mad lmao when this were all started as 'two cents' 💀
How about Bad Bunny and Kendall Jenner 😅
@@lolosmithy7099 Them too!
But they got back together? And other than y'all thinking Shawn looks gay why does anyone think their relationship is fake?
@@lolosmithy7099 i don't follow the Jenners/Kardashians so idk bout them
Shawn is a homaseggsyuh
One of my favorite recent celebrity relationship news is the rumor that Aaron Taylor-Johnson cheated on his wife with his co-star in “Bullet Train” Joey King. And the fans were excited and was praising both Joey & Aaron. For those who don’t know Aaron met his wife Sam when she was working on this movie & casted Aaron in it. He was 17/18 at the time and she was a fully grown woman. Not only was their age gap 23 years, but she had job power over him. It was also rumored that she met him when she was much younger. The fans of Aaron Taylor-Johnson call his wife “Granny” & do not like her. Joey King on the other hand is not that liked compared to Aaron. She gets a lot of hate online for how she looks and her acting. However, when it’s rumored she & Aaron did it together the fans were ecstatic and hopeful that Aaron would leave his wife. However, it appeared to be fake & he’s still with her.
Is their situation weird? Yes. But they seem to have a nice, private life with their kids and he's spoken before about how even if he hadn't met her, he would have gotten married young. His fans are ageist and are a perfect epitome of what Mina talks about here when fans pretend they know anything about their faves. It's strange to root for someone you like to get divorced, especially when there's kids involved.
@@elenymm Yeah it’s weird to root for your favorite celebrity to get divorced. It’s also weird to date a man when you’re old enough to be his mother and the fact that you could’ve put his career in jeopardy. I’m glad he’s happy it just feels so gross.
@haleydunn634 It is weird optics, but not every situation is the same. I remember him when he was just starting his career. He always struck me as mature for his age and as someone who wants different things for himself than most people his age. You know? What I am glad is that his career seems to be quite on track these days. Hope to see him in some good things in the future.
@@elenymmokay but no
She directed his break out role. She actively pushed for him to be cast in it. Which probably started when he was 17.
She left her husband of over a decade shortly after they did the movie. Her kids from her first marriage are just a few years older than Aaron.
This has nothing to do with ageism and everything to do with the optics of it. Bc it just straight up looks like grooming.
Millie Bobbie Brown is getting married, she's barely 20. Ofc some people comment that she's a bit young but she is marrying someone of her age. Nobody would have really batted an eyelash if Aaron had gotten married at 22 with a woman that's like 25. Or if Aaron and Sam had gotten together later in life (which, they probably would have gotten weird comments what with her kids being the same age but it would have been a lot less ruthless)
Priyanka Chopra and Nick Jonas have a ten year age gap where the woman is "much" older and no one is commenting on it anymore.
Not ageism, it's just creepy
@@soph996 I agree. She groomed him.
was on the edge of my seat waiting for rob and kirsten to be talked about 🙏🏻 the misogyny was CRAZY
i feel some part of me is still very angry with taylor swift (for reference i’m a qpoc: queer person of color) and confused about…everything about her, not just her choice in relationship partners. and the ice spice stuff really seriously set me off. and that’s what parasocial relationships are really all about. you feel like you have an understanding of a person and then you realize you don’t because you don’t know them outside of their public behavior and you either fall deeper in, pull back, or something in between or beyond these two things when shit hits the fan. i’m not done with parasocial relationships entirely, but i’m definitely over having deep ones. there’s too much going on in everyone’s life right now and as someone who’s been in a transition period for nearly 5 years now and is always facing uncertainty, i can’t take the stress and pressure and energy strong parasocial relationships require anymore.
and i’ll never think of taylor the same way after this year. there’s absolutely no one to blame for that and blame wouldn’t make me feel any better and i have so many more thoughts about this that i haven’t processed yet bc it’s all happened so recently, but i think i’ve just accepted that she’s not what i think she is. and that’s okay. no celebrity is what i think they are unless i know them outside of being a celebrity. and for all the efforts that are made to get fans as close as possible to celebrities, i’ve found myself wondering more and more lately if i’ve ever *really* known the people i idolize. (also, mina you’re serving in this video. you’re serving in every video. 🩵)
Thank you for saying this! While I'm not a Swifite and haven't been once since I was a child, the fact that she willingly dated Matty Healy really bothered me. I truly don't understand how anyone could even consider a relationship with someone like that.
It takes time to overcome parasocial relationships. I don't know how old you are, but I know from experience that it gets easier the older you get. I sometimes even find myself thinking about a celebrity in that way and I need to step back and remind myself that I actually don't know this person.
22:29 A very interesting phenomenon that I just very recently heard about is the love teams in the Philippines, they are a pair of actors who have great on-screen chemistry so they are paired throughout their careers, some do date off-screen, even marry, others are forced to pretend they are dating or at least never reveal they are not which makes it difficult for them to get other roles and do other things IRL.
The worst co-star shipped by fans has to be Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver. It hasn't really spilled outside of the fandom, but it's all over Reddit. People thought since they had chemistry in the Sequels they were secretly together even though Adam was and is married, and Daisy is engaged. What made it so scary was how extreme it got. It resulted in Adam's wife getting doxxed and stocked and comments about her and his child that are despicable. They made him out to be this saviour even though he really loved Daisy. Though it is clearly not true it persisted and played a huge role in how they both interact with the public.
omg i love your vids mina, they’re so educational and you’re one of my fav youtubers
I'm very new to the kpop scene, but when I first figured out the shipping culture I didn't really understand what fans were seeing and it very much felt like they were incredibly delusional. When I saw the boy groups hugging or cuddling or slapping each others asses I just assumed it was a very normal brotherly things that guys who are with each other almost 24/7 for years would be comfortable with, mixed with those dumb games of gay chicken that straight guys I grew up with always played with each other just to get attention. And yeah, some of them might actually be queer and their affection might have romantic or sexual undertones, but there's a very well-known dating ban in most idol companies which I knew about even before I started listening to any groups so I assumed that would apply within groups as well. FFS when a male idol hugs a female idol too closely knetz go nuts and companies freak out, can you imagine the scandal if any of these ships turned out to have even a speck of truth that got made public?! If any intragroup romances do happen, we're never ever going to hear about them bc the companies are gonna hermetically seal that shit to avoid scandal. Keeping that in mind, the fact that the idols who are more affectionate don't immediately take a step back and scale back the skinship as soon as they find out fans are shipping them tells me that they don't actually take shipping seriously as something fans actually believe, that they understand it's all just fantasy and it's not going to stop them from being themselves with their teammates, which is honestly pretty admirable.
After a while, I think I figured out something that applies both to shipping culture and to any celebrity couple that's at all public about their relationship. People folllowing them and creating fanfic and getting emotionally invested are not doing so with the real people. The celebrities, whether intentionally or not, have a public image they present to the world. What we see of them is only what they choose to show on camera, and even if they're totally genuine it's still really only a fraction of who the actually are as a person. So that public image morphs into this sort of character template that fans and audiences will use to play out whatever fantasies or drama they are craving in their own life. Starved for interesting gay romances in the rest of your media? Well good news bc there's a whole bevy of gorgeous male idols with affectionate public personas that you can feed on by writing whatever scenarios you want for them in fanfic form. Working through a bad breakup with someone who cheated? Don't worry, peruse any tabloid and you'll find a celebrity who may or may not be going through the same thing that you can latch onto and project all your hopes and regrets onto by ranting on twitter about how they shouldn't make the same mistakes you did. For the most part it's harmless, and at least within kpop it's more evident that fans understand they're just shipping slightly warped versions of the real people rather than being actually delulu and assuming the sexuality of idols by hyperanalyzing every muscle twitch when they glance at their ship.
I guess it's because you are new you haven't seen the darker side of shipping but it leads to a lot of hate to other band members that supposedly are in the way of the relationship. Also companies and members are 100% aware of shipping and do fanservice, it could be innocent like having two members spend time together on camera, or some gay play pretend game which is usually pretty cringe if you ask me. Anyways, like with most things the extremes aren't good
@@dopex89 extremes are the worst in any kind of community. extreme shipping leads to people fighting for no reason and there is nothing worse than bringing it up to idols (like you can have assumptions and fantasies but keep them to yourself or at least make sure your idols dont see it 🤦), extreme stanning one member makes them hate other members and not even support the whole group and they fight other solo stans all the time, then you have delusional fangirls who think they have a chance with their "oppa" (nothing is worse than companies forcing idols to flirt with fans during fan events feeding their delusions 🤢 at least with fan service between members, i know they are somewhat close and spend a lot of time together. imagine doing it to strangers who worship you. that's how obsessed creeps and stalkers are born. and finally, you have toxic fans who shit on anyone who even breathes wrong into the direction of their faves. but judging something by worst cases isn't a good thing. if people know their limits and don't take things too seriously, i don't think it's a problem. i feel like it's much more effective to have a chill approach as an example than argue with people - it really doesn't help 😅
I love this episode so much! The craziest PR couple stunt is the russian band t.a.T.u that were cast as lesbian teens and made to act out a fantasy romance for the public and male gaze in the early 2000s - they did the All the things she said song
I was a huge taylor swift fan since I was a kid. But unfortunatly recently something happened that upset me. I'm a gen z fashion designer from Iran and because of where I'm from I don't get a lot of opportunities to show my work. When I was in high school(5 years ago) I sent taylor a bunch of sketches I had done inspired by reputation album and I did it just to say how much I idolize her. I recently saw one of my sketches made into one of her looks from her eras tour and another designer was credited. It made me really sad cause I thought if anyone stood up for young artists and dreamers it would be taylor😔
WAOH….. make a TikTok about it show the screenshots
So sorry that happened
Who's the designer that she credited can you tell the details... and what dress exactly?
You should share around it online
Omg no way!! This made my jaw drop what?! I'm so sorry this happened to you 😔
I absolutely love your content! The way you explained the Love Triangle Framing made me sick to my stomach with the accuracy and just how grossly misogynistic it was/is. Thank you for another great video! Hope all is going well for you!!
Fan shipping of real people is a major problem in China. Previously, some shows and movies based on written works featuring homosexual relationships were produced and released with adjustments made to remove all such relationships. However, fans of the original works carried the knowledge of such relationships into the shows and movies, and then applied the knowledge to the actors. It resulted in major damage to the actor's careers at the time, and it still affects their ability to accept certain roles and interact with other celebrities.
7:11 I find when you meet people that indulge in anger its best to keep a distance before that anger fines its way projected towards you.
I think some other big controversial relationships include:
Olivia Rodrigo, Joshua Basset and Sabrina Carpenter being a whole years long public spectacle coming from Olivia and Josh dating while filming a show together, them breaking up semi-quietly, and Olivia releasing songs that blew up from throwing accusations over Sabrina being a home wrecker and becoming a back and forth between them musically.
Beyoncé and Jay Z starting dating when she was 19 and he was 31 has always boiled under the surface because of the age gap, him cheating, people believing he preyed on her because he knew she’d be big, etc. Today it’s kind of buried because they’re both older, and they’ve become one of THE biggest power couples and created so much art and such together
And then there’s Will Smith and Jada who always had drama between them, and they had little to no issue sharing their issues very publicly such as cheating, butting heads with differing parenting styles, fights they’ve had, and way too much more lol
There were even people speculating that Halle Bailey and her love interest in the little mermaid might be in love even though they’re both in very committed and separate relationships. Stuff like that could put a lot of tension and mistrust on relationships, like we’d seen with Sydney Sweeney and her co-star
We’re just never gonna explore the problematic side of Taylor Swift, huh. She’s always gonna get a free pass.
Just like the Democratic Party.
Oh please, free pass? As if she hasnt been slutshamed for years for dating like 8 (?) guys in her 20s and writing a few songs about her experience. This media idea that she is serial dater has been going on all the time even when she was in a 6 year relationship with Joe. Not to mention other hate that she has been getting for years about being fake, her weight etc and the whole Kanye phonecall fiasco when she was cancelled for sth she didnt really do.
Im not sayingh we shouldn't speak up and criticise her when she does questionable things like dating Matty, of course we should, as she has a great impact on so many younger woman, but saying she always gets a free pass is a quite a reach
@@MW-xd6hyher having to deal with misogyny doesn't equal being rightfully scrutinized and criticized for her frankly ignorant actions and performative activism. So yea taylor swift has always been given a free pass to be the way she is
@@MW-xd6hyYou just proved the commenters point lol 🤡
No lol she’s a blonde skinny white woman
It definitely raises an eyebrow when a celeb (or anyone really) who has shown activism and progressivism dates someone who is at complete conflict to their supposed values. It’s not like I’d ever pressure anyone to break up with someone but it does make me question a person’s allyship when they choose to be with someone who’s problematic side isn’t exactly a secret. I get rose coloured glasses and all but it also feels… privileged for the person to overlook their partner’s misdeeds because it doesn’t affect them.
Seeing those old magazine covers from the early 2000s was so fun. Remembering pop culture from when I was in middle school will never not be a good time.
I used to be a hardcore Larrie when I was a teenager and I remember going down their tags and stuff recently on social media and it's insane how people go as far as to say that Louis' son isn't his (even though they look exactly alike) and that everything is a hoax to hide their sexuality even now outside of 1D in a rather accepting society. Also gay men get the most LGBTQ+ representation in all forms of media
Some people still think his son is fake unfortunately. And his son is like 8 now, only a few years till he starts using social media n stuff as preteens have social media these days and I feel bad for him because I don't want him to go down a rabbit hole and discover that people believe his father isn't his real father.
1:35 I am all for not calling him Matty because he is a grown man and I feel like it adds to this “boyish charm” that he tries to have to excuse his mad behaviour.
That’s a very interesting observation.
I remember both the B.S and J.T blow up and I was a Britney Fan because of how much I did not like Justin Timberlake. He rubbed me the wrong way as a Backstreet Boy fan and then adding what he did to Janet Jackson just solidified my dislike of him. With you bringing up relationships, what got me were how people did backflips to justify Taylor Swift dating a horrid man. Several white women on Twitter, Tikotk and other places mentioned "sometimes you want to a date a garbage guy".
The shipping of real people can also have actual consequences for the people being shipped if fans get out of hand. Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo from the untamed were shipped by fans and it got so out of hand Xiao Zhan had to publicly apologize and they can't be seen in public together. Its also (allegedly) why ao3 was banned in china.
Yeah honestly the hype around celebrity drama is crazy. You don't see other employees getting bothered for what they do outside of work. Being an actor or musician shouldn't be a 24/7 job where you can't turn your persona off because everyone is always analyzing you.
I subscribed to your channel a while ago after watching a couple of videos I really liked, but for some reason ended up not coming back to it much. Today this one was reccomended when I was looking for something to watch on my lunch break and I remembered why I liked your content so much: fun, intelligent, and interesting!
5:29 also Elizabeth Taylor got with the marries Eddie Fisher in the aftermath of her husbands and his beat friends' death. What a messy love life she had
Yes, he was married to Debbie Reynolds from Singin in the Rain!
Your insight, thoughtfulness and care are worthy of college-level lectures.