DOTA SPECTRE + SHADOW FIEND (A3A4TOSTOBOY) TOP 1 RANK

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.พ. 2020
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    Mercurial the Spectre is a melee agility hero, adept at dealing pure damage to lone targets, and is powerful both offensively and defensively. Spectral Dagger provides a significant amount of mobility, allowing Spectre to go through objects, units and terrain while slowing foes that come in contact with the shadowy path left by her Spectral Dagger. Desolate allows her to inflict high pure damage to enemy heroes when she catches them alone. Dispersion reduces and reflects all damage, whether by attacks or spells, to an area around her. Dispersion gives her great durability, especially when equipped with items that provide health, armor, and damage block. Finally, her Haunt creates a malevolent spectral illusion to all enemy heroes in the map. Haunt lets Spectre wreak havoc in clashes and ganks, while her allies take advantage of the confusion. Spectre can use Reality during the Haunt, instantly teleporting her to her illusion to take its form. This lets her hound her victim anywhere on the map. Mercurial is a dangerous supernatural being, relentless as she can chase and stalk down her victim to a global range, unhindered by boundaries. Her kit allows her to play the role of the team's hard carry by applying an immense amount of pressure in late game team fights. More specifically, the damage reflection from Dispersion makes it disadvantageous for teams to focus her. Her abilities have a complex nature, and newer players should generally not play Spectre as she is extremely farm and level dependent. It is best to face Spectre with allied help and strength, as encountering her alone is not always the best option.
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ความคิดเห็น • 273

  • @TheBaltazarTV
    @TheBaltazarTV  4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    This is AZA channel: th-cam.com/channels/rr2m9y6EhHt0bWMBFDjr2g.html

    • @mhhurairah
      @mhhurairah 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Public player standard! Spectre should go for blademail and diffusal blade instead of went to radiance. Spectre shall act as tanker in early game before turn to carry. Sentinel already owned before sniper dropped from the game. 4 v 5? And the title shown spectre and nevermore pro? Not ashamed showing your noob public style play?

    • @josephstalin2966
      @josephstalin2966 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Красава Бальта

    • @user-go3qu8xg5q
      @user-go3qu8xg5q 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Mohd Hurairah actually every one who plays against aza sees his stream it means they now their location sven just cheated! And then r u pro? Otherwise let’s play against aza or baltazar

    • @mhhurairah
      @mhhurairah 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@user-go3qu8xg5q quit playing 10 years ago. I couldnt accept the title mentioned of top1 rank:
      1. Public player
      2. 4v5? Luckily u won because sniper dropped from the game. And u stated top1?
      3. To defeat during 4v5 more than an hour and stil saying top1?

    • @user-go3qu8xg5q
      @user-go3qu8xg5q 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Mohd Hurairah go fu(.k yourself

  • @nelsonezequiel1667
    @nelsonezequiel1667 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    34:50 Sven rules the game! Nice Player

  • @Daemon4378
    @Daemon4378 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    красиво аза поступил защитил коллегу по цеху лайк ему и балте))

  • @user-bb3bg3pi7d
    @user-bb3bg3pi7d 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    балта, ты тут потеряшка какой то

  • @wendelsantos2139
    @wendelsantos2139 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    One of the rarest Baltha games that is really difficult, as most games are always better.

  • @aliabdurahmonov362
    @aliabdurahmonov362 4 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    The baltazar vs A3A4TOSTOBOY

    • @sharaeb4521
      @sharaeb4521 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      блядь тут понятно)))))))

    • @gavharqurbonova6160
      @gavharqurbonova6160 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Aza

    • @alitakim1437
      @alitakim1437 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Gavhar. Baltazar stronger than Aza!

    • @focuswow6751
      @focuswow6751 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@alitakim1437 Aza stronger Aza top1

    • @focuswow6751
      @focuswow6751 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Eli_elf tvoy baltazar proigral th-cam.com/video/6EX-s36yc1U/w-d-xo.html

  • @jackjack-vu2eu
    @jackjack-vu2eu 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This game is so intense I love it. It was sad sniper dropped from the game, it became imbalance but sentinel work through it. Kudos to phoenix too!
    Sniper left early but still made it to be number 4

  • @stevelleremy1685
    @stevelleremy1685 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    When Sniper was disconnected the game was over. Why should we continue watching the game after that? It is 4vs5, the fun is over, not balanced, etc.

    • @mhhurairah
      @mhhurairah 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Public player standard! Spectre should go for blademail and diffusal blade instead of went to radiance. Spectre shall act as tanker in early game before turn to carry. Sentinel already owned before sniper dropped from the game. 4 v 5? And the title shown spectre and nevermore pro? Not ashamed showing your noob public style play?

    • @lalatendudas3910
      @lalatendudas3910 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes the game is intense

    • @roshikkomilov6517
      @roshikkomilov6517 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well, unbalanced game lasted more than an hour

    • @stevelleremy1685
      @stevelleremy1685 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@roshikkomilov6517 Yes, because 6 items Sven (perfect mid game farm and kills) can go against entery team. It is a obvious snowball game which Spectre + SF would win.

    • @lukeryuzaki2328
      @lukeryuzaki2328 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@roshikkomilov6517 Because the 5 man team is also trash?

  • @charakintasell3869
    @charakintasell3869 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    TH-cam: y cuantos
    ancios quieres en el video
    TheBaltazar: si

  • @junaidjavaid3888
    @junaidjavaid3888 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Very nice player this A3A4
    I watch gameplay of yours and this guy

  • @user-wr2lf3xu9w
    @user-wr2lf3xu9w 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    как долго я ждал этот бой

  • @donateryaphets6928
    @donateryaphets6928 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Просто жжеееееесть!!!!!
    Балта и аза вы красавчики 🔥💥🔥💥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💥🔥💥🔥💥🔥💥💪💪💪💪

  • @DavidWijaya
    @DavidWijaya 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    I think you should play VS pro player like this.. this is more interesting video for you viewers even you lose or win .. good job balta

    • @lukeryuzaki2328
      @lukeryuzaki2328 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Pro players would thrashed that kind of play under 60 minutes. Took that long vs 4 people team, one that losing its supposed true carrier while losing even the internal defending fortresses!
      2 of Lina, Puck and Witch Doctor gets Hex, then they had a chance to win at 1:16:00 push.
      Joke of a game. Like noobish 5 man team ever.

  • @calmazoz8087
    @calmazoz8087 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    i watched ... Dammn Balta you went BEast mode on them!!!!!!!!! Krasava!!!!!

  • @xuxexunator100
    @xuxexunator100 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Al fin un buen dota que te dura 50 min a mas. al fin un buen video

  • @htetkokoaung3765
    @htetkokoaung3765 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You are genius balta you can control every game well.whether you lose or not

  • @IvanRandomDude
    @IvanRandomDude 4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Sven is so strong, he carried the game for 80 minutes 4 vs 5.

    • @william1442
      @william1442 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He made some mistakes though, he jumped alone a couple of times and wasted money on bb once. Still he played really good.

    • @mhhurairah
      @mhhurairah 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Public player standard! Spectre should go for blademail and diffusal blade instead of went to radiance. Spectre shall act as tanker in early game before turn to carry. Sentinel already owned before sniper dropped from the game. 4 v 5? And the title shown spectre and nevermore pro? Not ashamed showing your noob public style play?

    • @william1442
      @william1442 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Without radiance, the AOE damage from copies and farm would have decreased. True that Sniper without dropping would have been more interested game, but you cannot denied that both SF and spectre played really good and they properly counter and focus sven: using manta at right timing and killing rosh before them. Also, with another item build would be a different game, I think Balta does it sometimes : ). In overall it was a good game with high level players.

    • @mhhurairah
      @mhhurairah 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@william1442 if 10 years ago, yes ppl go for radiance. What u get from radiance? Just minor damage of aoe? If u go for blademail and diffusal, u can diffuse sven (demode skill) and demobilized before he buy bkb, + damage, armor and speed (agility item increase speed and armor) and wasting 10-15 minutes without any damage increment (late farming). I betting u, if u watching other pro player (tournament player, not utube player), they will never go for radiance.
      The item is depends on how owning you are during early game. For this game:
      Early game:
      Vanguard (increase og life nos, health generate)
      - to stay longer in game without going back to throne
      - powerful magic of opponent (lina & and wd), could stay longer during wartime
      *blademail
      During wartime, spectre to provide oppurnities to nevermore (let nevermore to own all) spectre need to tank a bit.
      Mid game
      *Yasha
      *Diffusal blade
      *Yasha upgrade to Manta
      Late game
      *Butterfly
      *Satanic
      Blademail/Diffusal can be replaced with other orb effect or tanker item:
      Ice skadi
      Armor
      Heart tarasque

    • @truonghuy8078
      @truonghuy8078 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Sven item wrong, Sven need critical buziza than Eye Skadi.

  • @mohdnoorazammohdnazri4706
    @mohdnoorazammohdnazri4706 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Really need to see such high game again

  • @karimyusupov2536
    @karimyusupov2536 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Xoroshiy strim balta 👍 balta tashit🙂

  • @beknurzhenisbek4048
    @beknurzhenisbek4048 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If you didnt collect the radiance at 15min,better collect mom yasha and bm.

  • @__-wf1lk
    @__-wf1lk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Двух ютюберов вынесли )) почти, если бы не лив снип

  • @fa_roman
    @fa_roman 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This kind of games are our favorities Balta, nice game

  • @Ilhom.Bahronov
    @Ilhom.Bahronov 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Crazy, too hard and interesting game. Thanks for game with Aza.
    "Pts na stol" 😎🤙

    • @mhhurairah
      @mhhurairah 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Public player standard! Spectre should go for blademail and diffusal blade instead of went to radiance. Spectre shall act as tanker in early game before turn to carry. Sentinel already owned before sniper dropped from the game. 4 v 5? And the title shown spectre and nevermore pro? Not ashamed showing your noob public style play?

    • @Ilhom.Bahronov
      @Ilhom.Bahronov 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mhhurairah 🤦 why always hero "have to" buy something? Why Spectre need diffus? Just a stereotyped thinking. What does that have to do with me and my skill? If u want to see my skill or style, we can play 1x1 in Iccup.

    • @lukeryuzaki2328
      @lukeryuzaki2328 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Ilhom.Bahronov The response is just show how noob you are. Every game has certain meta. There is a reason certain need core build . Dota has restriction with WC3 engine which is why Dota 2 built on different engine to make support hero more relevant even into late game.
      Anyways, Balta build is actual what you call stereotype without any improvisation based on situation. He got luck with this fluke win despite the other team lost Sniper, their supposed true carrier. Sven is at absolute disadvantage on 4 man team vs a range carrier in SF, Spectre being Spectre’s great mobility soloing (Chasing Spectre alone is a lose lose situation). That’s before we’re talking about team fight.
      Challenge for solo game? LOL. Sure. Fly to where the person you want to challenge and play in the same room on LAN. That’s how pro challenge is conducted. IICup platform sucks ball. There is a reason many of players quit Dota and moved on after Gardena shut down its WC3 in many regions.

  • @CAJIABAT.IOJIAEB
    @CAJIABAT.IOJIAEB 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Аза красавчег вапче, все сделал, профессионал епт!!! Нет слов просто!!! Короче сами все видели как же он был полезен везде, я прям в эйфории😃😃😃

  • @6135abhi
    @6135abhi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Different story if sniper was not disconnected 😄

  • @kerimkerimow6184
    @kerimkerimow6184 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Will ever be broodmother or meepo? They were 4 years ago (((

  • @abangncuy5708
    @abangncuy5708 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This is not EPIC gameplay....
    Its CRAZY gameplay.... GG

  • @songmasterization
    @songmasterization 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    When they pushed for THE win, they have should push for THE mega creeps

  • @benzdy5338
    @benzdy5338 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Epic Comeback Good Game

  • @taran8764
    @taran8764 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Бальта не может выфармить слоты за 30 мин, если ему не "облизывают игру", как бывает когда он играет с ракоподписотой

  • @esenesenn1238
    @esenesenn1238 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    1.22 minutes izi katka Hahahahaha Baltazar Kaltazara ))))

  • @AJektut
    @AJektut 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    28:37 why did u jump? u saw them all in ur forest. That game was intense

  • @muhalvingunawan3608
    @muhalvingunawan3608 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Crazy game, very2 strong, Sven Its heroes

  • @CAJIABAT.IOJIAEB
    @CAJIABAT.IOJIAEB 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Побольше таких видео Бальта?

  • @user-gw5jr7fo3y
    @user-gw5jr7fo3y 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Balthazar you're very cool playing, maybe you'll shoot on your second channel dota 2?

  • @kayltube1034
    @kayltube1034 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Go Sven NICE GAME BALTA¡¡¡

  • @Psihopatuch
    @Psihopatuch 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Krasava Balta

  • @lucasmegal8138
    @lucasmegal8138 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Ang lakas maq FARM ... Kaya sa last kuna pinanood haha. At nonq last patapos na FARM parin am PUTA.

  • @user-rl5dj1is6w
    @user-rl5dj1is6w 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good game baltazar respect

  • @crazypanda7173
    @crazypanda7173 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    очень хороший гейм ... чем предыдущие видео... Балтазар_играй с A3A4TOSTOBOI !!! НУ ХОТЯБЫ ЕЩЕ ОДНУ КАТКУ.... ПО БРАТСКИЙ !!!!

  • @rakphonthong
    @rakphonthong 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Is a fun game and very awesome.

  • @HD_Investment
    @HD_Investment 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Sven need santanic that he fight with spec and sf

  • @calmazoz8087
    @calmazoz8087 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    liked before watching sps balta

  • @user-vo1us6om1i
    @user-vo1us6om1i 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Аза сила !!!💪 Aza best player in the iccup.But The Baltazar the most better player in Dota)))))

    • @sneaky1777
      @sneaky1777 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Азя топ 1 айкап бля конечно он топ

    • @IvanRandomDude
      @IvanRandomDude 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I've been watching his streams lately. I don;t think he is the best, I've seen him getting his ass spanked by multiple players. He is top ranked because he plays a lot but I don;t think he is the best skill wise.

  • @nyshanbaytoleshov8114
    @nyshanbaytoleshov8114 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Вот это игра достойный 👍

  • @eakmatov9101
    @eakmatov9101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Comeback 2020?

  • @GloomyTV
    @GloomyTV 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    i expected balta vs a3a

  • @luctran2238
    @luctran2238 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very good game bro. Next Geomancer plz!

  • @thehermitssanctuary5329
    @thehermitssanctuary5329 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Very hard game,. Fank you bro.

  • @kimvananwarna9860
    @kimvananwarna9860 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice game with imba playerr gj balta

  • @lalatendudas3910
    @lalatendudas3910 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Even if baltha lose this match still he uploaded the play

  • @nozomireissnatsukieit9885
    @nozomireissnatsukieit9885 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ala mrd tremends remontada epica

  • @nikolabukvic1632
    @nikolabukvic1632 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice, i love this video with a3a and ispecrra is my davourite hero, can you play Void next

    • @rifhatahunov4912
      @rifhatahunov4912 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Меня бы удивило если бы ты сказал что BTR & Wisp твои любимые герои)

  • @user-cs7ef5qj2u
    @user-cs7ef5qj2u 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Pheonix vs Sven resspect 👍

  • @pastelospastelatoras1518
    @pastelospastelatoras1518 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sick game

  • @menardbalbaboco1327
    @menardbalbaboco1327 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Next Nevermore or sven pls 👑

  • @dulesavic8548
    @dulesavic8548 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    jedan od najljepsih gejmova sto sam gledao kod tebe na kanalu. Sven je bio los poslije, valjda se prepao da ce da izgubi i bez veze ginuo.

  • @mr.airjordan97
    @mr.airjordan97 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    very difficult game, if the sniper was not kicked, you would have lost long ago. that's why I respect you.

  • @csgogod3987
    @csgogod3987 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Gg belta bro

  • @zoirmuxtorov180
    @zoirmuxtorov180 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Amazing)) sven, never, spectre

  • @menardbalbaboco1327
    @menardbalbaboco1327 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Next game Nevermore please Balta 💓

  • @abduvalixusnitdinov8353
    @abduvalixusnitdinov8353 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    все игроки молодцы

  • @mirkokro_kop4281
    @mirkokro_kop4281 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Nice game

  • @gorankrstev5672
    @gorankrstev5672 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    You got lucky sniper dropped, otherwise you lose

  • @henryduong4728
    @henryduong4728 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    OMG, such a fantastic comeback!

  • @htetkokoaung3765
    @htetkokoaung3765 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Iam your big fan since you posted on. TH-cam

  • @rexharoldamerica2681
    @rexharoldamerica2681 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow yeahhhh whoooooo

  • @saidrahimof5696
    @saidrahimof5696 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Gospoddddiiiiii broooo

  • @truonghuy8078
    @truonghuy8078 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Upload ezalor beyond godlike please !!!

  • @user-nt5gd5vn7s
    @user-nt5gd5vn7s 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Красава братуха. По больше игр с Азой

  • @user-ko6nq1je5l
    @user-ko6nq1je5l 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Всегда считал что балта за счет тимы тока. Как снайп ливнул все не интересно стало. Все ясно

  • @t33h2tyhtwhwtwftng
    @t33h2tyhtwhwtwftng 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Balta you are the best

  • @jirihutecka9020
    @jirihutecka9020 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Nice game..

  • @phamductinbkdn
    @phamductinbkdn 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the real dota1

  • @ladyluvsleez
    @ladyluvsleez 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Baltazar pls Chaos knight

  • @dadanghelder5751
    @dadanghelder5751 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    wtf offlane sniper XD

  • @alexanderbanaag7682
    @alexanderbanaag7682 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    hey this game tournament ?

  • @DotaMaphack
    @DotaMaphack 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    When live stream ??????

  • @saidanvaraloev
    @saidanvaraloev 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I see streams aza

  • @shukurfayzullaev7981
    @shukurfayzullaev7981 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice game bro. Next game Enchantress

  • @davidlalmuanpuia8430
    @davidlalmuanpuia8430 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Super like the late game

  • @CAJIABAT.IOJIAEB
    @CAJIABAT.IOJIAEB 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Бля ну супер просто!!! Если снайпер продолжил бы, то скорее всего проехали бы, но если бы да кабы не работает, это комбэк величайший!!!! БКБ не зашло бы спектре? А то его фиксят все маги...

  • @shaxzodboltayev171
    @shaxzodboltayev171 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Very good

  • @ismaeelpopov8446
    @ismaeelpopov8446 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice chilly thrilly game. My hands and foots are cold after watching this. Guess u were a lil bit drunken? No?

  • @mirkokro_kop4281
    @mirkokro_kop4281 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Аза Балта красавцы!

  • @aimanelang1606
    @aimanelang1606 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dota is Awsome !!!!
    Play Lanaya and Carry The Game.

  • @mohdmubarak4378
    @mohdmubarak4378 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bro help me with how to connect DotA 1 online with friends?

  • @mohammadjabbari618
    @mohammadjabbari618 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If sniper doesnt disconnected. Or ddos attack .they will win 100%.

  • @claudiup.992
    @claudiup.992 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you please recommend me a platform where maphack is NOT allowed? I quit dota some years ago due to fkn shit. Thx

  • @RememberMe0796
    @RememberMe0796 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Dejan you are good okey, but Aza is the best in stream i think .. :)

  • @user-xt7fm4sb5l
    @user-xt7fm4sb5l 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good game 👍👍👍

  • @user-ts1kr2pl3w
    @user-ts1kr2pl3w 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Balta like hard players

  • @Solomonovv
    @Solomonovv 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Аза лучший жи есть жи )0

  • @gabrielvargaslopez934
    @gabrielvargaslopez934 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Version vieja ya estamos en la 6.90

  • @user-hb8yo9im7z
    @user-hb8yo9im7z 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Постная катка)

  • @kenshinhimura2738
    @kenshinhimura2738 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    No balance sniper left

  • @user-sw8xb4lz5v
    @user-sw8xb4lz5v 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Бальта заплатил снайпу и он ливнул

  • @anousoneskywalker7874
    @anousoneskywalker7874 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Phantom & Nevermore

  • @huynam1996
    @huynam1996 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sven ko lên crit dame cuối, lên mặt băng ???? Sao win dc

  • @user-wy9vf5kq4q
    @user-wy9vf5kq4q 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can anyone tell me how the fuck all players leave before the game ends and they dont get a Leave point and general points reduction????