The East German Army: The NVA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- This video summarizes the history of the NVA from its foundation till its end.
It answers the questions: How big was the East German army and how was it structured and who was its leader. It also contains information about the NVA uniforms and equipment and the merger with the Bundeswehr in 1990.
Books:
- Armee für Frieden und Sozialismus
- Geschichte der nationalen Volksarmee - R Wenzke
- Von der Nationalen Volksarmee zur Bundeswehr - www.bundesstif...
Online sources:
• Frankfurt Documents - www.csu-geschichte.deKVP 1953 - By Bundesarchiv, Bild 183-19400-0127 / Krueger, Wolfgang / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 de, commons.wikime...
• German Uprising 1953 - By Bundesarchiv, B 145 Bild-F005191-0040 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 de, commons.wikime...
• Warsaw Pact - Map - CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikime...
• Willi Stoph in 1976- By Bundesarchiv, Bild 183-R0430-0305A / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 de, commons.wikime...
• Heinz Hoffmann in 1969 - By Bundesarchiv, Bild 183-P0113-318 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 de, commons.wikime...
• NVA at the Berlin Wall & Prague footage - US National Archives
• Erich Honecker 1976 - By Bundesarchiv, Bild 183-R0518-182 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 de, commons.wikime...
• Soldiers remove snow at Neubrandenburg station - By Bundesarchiv, Bild 183-U0102-026 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 de, commons.wikime...
• Theodor Hoffmann - By Eberhard Marx - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikime...
• Mig East German Airforce - By Rob Schleiffert from Holland - MiG-21M Drewitz, CC BY-SA 2.0, commons.wikime...
Corrections:
14:52 The aircraft shown is a Mig-21 and not a Mig-29.
Great video, but I'm afraid the aircraft pictured @14:52 is a Mig-21 and not a Mig-29.
Yes great vid but saw that to
Thanks for mentioning it. It's indeed a Mig-21.
@@eastgermanyinvestigatedSome Mig-29’s were delivered to the gdr before the wall fell and they became part of the German Luftwaffe. Absolutely fascinating to see with new paint. I’m sure it contributed to Putins grievance. One crashed in 1989 due to engine failure.
@@eastgermanyinvestigated The airplane taken over by the Bundeswehr was the MiG-29 (and yes, the picture is a MiG-21)
Plus a few transport aircraft. Maybe Interflug Tu-154.
There was even a suggestion the new Germany army use the AK-74. Wild times
I was a German linguist and eavesdropper for the USAF in West Germany in the early 1980s. I remember the NVA had six divisions (two tank and four motorized rifle) and six air wings (two with MiG-23s and four with MiG-21s) at that time. I used to be able to list them all, of course.
Here's a quick fact: The East German pilots and air traffic controllers communicated in Russian at that time. My fellow linguists and I weren't told this until we had completed the 8 months of intensive language training to learn German. But the pilots couldn't speak Russian any better than we could, so all we had to learn were Russian numbers and a few dozen nouns and verbs. If something got complicated, they switched to German.
My college friend was an eavesdropper in the USAF. I visited him during his language training at the Presidio in Monterey California. He was later stationed in Turkey, listening no doubt, to Russian communications.
@@Chiller11 The Presidio was great. Beautiful view.
That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing!
NATO was pretty much the same. We (USAF ATC) spoke in English to the pilots, but in a serious emergency it was natural, under the stress of the situation, for the pilot to revert to his native tongue.
I grew up after the cold war in (the western part of) Germany, hence I generally have a very negative opinion of American intelligence ("Curveball" affair, the false US claims at UN of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction), Snowden's disclosure of US shennanigans against the civilian populace and governments of USAs allies, the 1990ies Gulf War Kuwaiti Ambassador's daugther fake about Saddam Hussein's troops throwing babies from incubators in a Hospital to the ground, and so on and on, US intelligence assassinating potential terrorists by drone strikes based on "Metadata" (i.e. who someone happens to have phonecalls with), alongside everyone else at the wedding, all that in foreign countries usa isn't even at war with, such as Pakistan, then of course the CIA torture camps for whoever they extrajudicially deemed "terrorists", with that in mind, I associate US intelligence is largely associated with doing evil, sometimes comically evil even.
So yeah, just now I heard for the first time of a US intelligence operative actually doing something worthwhile as part of US intelligence, actually intercepting communications of our communist enemies.
Maybe back when there was a real tangible threat, they were too busy with fighting that threat, and had no time to do all the shennanigans, they do these days
Highly underrated channel, instant click on every new episode
Not by those that watch this channel and it deserves a lot more viewers
Agreed! I can’t believe that there aren’t many more subscribers! I love this channel!
I'm with you! I love this channel and the information.
I've read a couple of the books he's recommended and they've been really fun too
Same…instant “like” before I’ve even completed viewing…best E German related channel around,
A friend of mine was training to be a helicopter pilot in the East German military when reunification occurred. As Bundeswehr aircraft were significantly more advanced than any he had trained on, he was immediately made redundant when the forces merged. Overnight, his dream job evaporated. Fortunately, he eventually landed on his feet. But it was a rough transition.
The anschluss of the DDR..... a word never used to describe the joining of the BRD and the DDR.
The primary reason why the NVA returned to the "German-style" uniforms, marching drill, and tradition, was because the SPD wanted to create the belief that the NVA, and thus the DDR, was the true inheritors of the German identity.
Meanwhile, the Bundeswehr, adopted US-style uniforms and severely "de-Prussianized" their drill and tradition.
No surprise there. When West Germany is composedof Bavaria and Wurttemberg - two of the most anti-Prussian German states - it is no surprise they "de-Prussianized" the Bundeswehr...
SPD? I think you mean the SED.
which is why the BW is a laughing stock
I've also read a story, and I don't know if it's true or not, but it goes like this:
On the eve of the formation of the NVA one of it's high officials was in Moskow and wearing his Soviet-styled Barracks Police uniform. The Soviet defense minister looked at him and asked "What kind of a uniform is that?"
The German replied "What's wrong? Don't you like it?"
"No!" said the Russian, "It looks awful! Look, during the war you Germans had some great-looking uniforms, why don't you wear something like that?"
"You mean, you wouldn't mind?"
"Of course not, you're on OUR side now!"
Well there's the story. Is it true? I don't know, but it's a good one! 🤣
Did the Russian give the German Hugo Boss's phone number?@@wayneantoniazzi2706
Very well summarized. I was stationed in Peenemünde in '89. We were given orders to shoot to stop demonstrations among the troops. For me this was the reason to end my service. In March '90 I was free, but without a destination. Finding your way around the new democracy was not easy. But a soldier fights. In '93 I resumed my service in the Bundeswehr
I personally resigned from military service on the last day of the GDR because I found that both sides are actually implemented so much hate with almost the same propaganda slogans during the cold war. It finished my military carrier as a tank-lieutenant i.R.
Still good luck to you and hopefully we never need your service (no irony here).
Peace! from Dresden / Germany
A little known fact is that NVA did saw some significant combat when they helped the Nicaragua Sandinista revolution. I had a neighbor that was part of the Nicaraguan Revolutionary Army and had nothing but great memories of fighting in the deep Nicaraguanjungle alongside NVA soldiers
ask your neighbor what he usually smokes!
@@michaelpielorz9283 Why?
@@michaelpielorz9283 hmm it’s well documented
The NVA and MfS were known to have their military "Advisors"
in Nicaragua,Cuba,Africa, Asia.
There were negotiations to have NVA personnel in Afghanistan alongside the Soviet invaiders. However, my research into this is that no significant percentage of NVA personnel were sent to Afghanistan.
@@MrHrKaidoOjamaaVKJVdid the Warsaw Pact even help them in afghanstain I thought that it was only the Soviet’s in their
I remember from Swedish television, a competitive guy who was very eager to outdo his older brother who had served with an elite unit. He had been selected to join this unit as well and he was very happy when he received the paper that said so. Then the wall came down and things become not so clear. Unfortunate for him, this unit dissolved and he had to show up at bundeswehr. They had no idea what to do with these people. So he couldn’t join any kind of elite unit and was very disappointed when he was interviewed. I felt sorry for him
I ve been kiving in berlin about 2 years now, I have the hobbby of going to every town and city around berlin, in some of those you can still see a lot of the DDR hints (sometimes flags from peoples balconies).
Your channel is a great reference to boost the experience the life at the other side of the wall.
My congrats!
Well, there was a video on Berlin which I hope you have seen. It showed many gems that you can find and a bicycle is ideal to move around. There was a gdr exclave somewhere which I didn’t know about
Excellent video as always!
I can add a few facts from my own perspective. As you rightly point out, the normal conscription period was 18 months. However, if you wanted to study at university, a 'voluntary' sign-up for 3 years was very much expected. It nearly ended up that way for me as well, but a new scheme introduced in 1987 saved me. At that time the GDR was desperate for new graduates in electronics and information technology related fields. For this reason, I was selected as one of first people to serve only 9 months in order get to university quickly. I was in a special unit with other '9-month' people and made life-long friends there. Also, because most of us were in the same situation, there was less bullying.
I was in a mortar artillery unit and most of our equipment was Soviet stock from the 1940's and 50's - not sure if we would have been able to repel any attack with that🤭
The most useful thing we did during my 9 month service was to help in flooding defence on the river Elbe around Easter 1988, like filling sandbags and reinforcing dikes.
my grandfather served as an officer in the west german airforce and was tasked to liquidate equipment depots in the east after reunification. He told me that many if not most of the vehicles in storage had barely driven 100 kilometers yet they were in such a sorry state that most of them broke down on their way to the scrapyard. He said that he was always afraid of the east german forces overrunning west Germany. After actually seeing their equipment he said that such an operation would have ended in inevitable failure.
I have heard fascinating accounts from those that served in the NVA. It was in a bad state on so many levels
@@TheFrewah That's why it was a takeover, not a merger. One state was on the verge of collapse, the other wasn't.
And now the state who took over is collapsing @@cv990a4
To be fair, the NVA's state of disrepair in the late 1980s and early 1990s could be more or less said the same for any peacetime army of any country around the world throughout history. A war effort, especially a wartime army, is nightmarishly expensive to maintain, so no country in peacetime - even the ones most prepared fight an imminent war - possesses an army with all its personnel and equipment at full combat capability - Hence the popular phrase "we fight with the army we have, not with the army we want." Shortly before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, general of the army George C. Marshall, the US Army Chief of Staff throughout World War II, told his subordinate officers that if war does break out, they should expect to experience tactical and operational defeats by their enemies in the early stages of the war, so long as they can get their army back up on their feet to fight and win future battles until they finally win the war strategically - Something akin to the popular phrase "you've won the battle, but you haven't won the war."
As for your grandfather in the West German Luftwaffe, I reckon most of the NVA vehicles he found in an absolute state of disrepair belonged not to active-duty units but were kept in storage for reserve troops, only meant to come out of storage if World War III breaks out. If the Bundeswehr ever had to experience the same kind of wholesale decommissioning that the NVA experienced at the end, your grandfather would probably find the problem more or less the same with the Bundeswehr as with the NVA. No peacetime army truly uncovers all its strengths and weaknesses until it is mobilized, either to the scrapping yard or to the frontlines of war, which is also a scrapping yard, but the more competitive and darwinist kind of scrapping yard that tests the survival of the fittest.
Only the Soviet forces could have overun west Germany. No move would have been made by east Germany without the full backing in practice by Soviet forces.
I served in the Soviet Army in DDR and we once visited with the "brothers-in-arms" visit barracks of the NVA military unit, kind of military police or whatever. It was Sunday and we, Soviet soldiers, were shocked that nearly all the staff was absent except for those on duty. We were told that German soldiers are allowed to leave the barracks for their homes for weekends and gather later on Sunday for the evening roll call. It was in 1985 so there were not any signs of the "Constant Combat readiness" which was supposedly cancelled only in 1989 as it is said in the video.
Within the Warsaw Pact the NVA was considered nearly the most battleworthy and reliable army among its members after the Soviet Army (to say frankly I doubt it much as the Soviet Army was very big but very ineffective and fraud with the formal combat training and busy with the lots of work not connected to the military training or service. For example our officers often sold us soldiers as slaves to the German civilians for the most hard and dirty works- dig tree holes, dig trenches for cable, loading-unloading works etc.). The proper routine combat training was conducted mostly by the commanders- enthusiasts, and they looked like black sheep. Like the commander of my signal corps battalion, lieutenant colonel of Ukrainian descent, he was a keen fan of combat training and combat readiness. We were drilled in our military professions until we were like the automats. Actually he made his job as it must be done. And all the other commanders of battalions and regiments and the commandment of the division hated him. In comparison with him they looked like losers and senseless lazy bones. I know that he was forced to retire immediately after reaching age.
So I think the NVA was a sort of the main combat power of the Warsaw Pact.
Thanks for your valuable addition!
I served in the NVA from 1983-1986 as a T55-commander. I am not sure which unit you visited, but leave was extremely rare - particular since we were a so called "close-border-unit" (MSR28, Rostock). Even during Christmas and New Year, 90% of the staff had to be in the barracks with the officers nearby in their private homes only a short call away. At any given time!
Very frequent alarm trainings at any time was conducted at different levels. I served voluntarily for three years with all honours and never any punishment, but I never made it out of the barracks during festive holidays. Those were the times of the bloody cold war. So your impression might be correct, but reality for combat units was still very different for most of the NVA soldiers.
I also visited sometimes our "brother-in-arms" (the Soviet army barracks) which usually started with a friendly AK-shooting competition. I always managed to be presented with a little Soviet army badge (like an old-fashion purple shield and a Soviet star in the centre), which I proudly wore on my uniform. Afterwards our Soviet hosts would give us an incredible lunch and dinner and hundreds of bottles of Cuban "Havana Club" (banana flavour) to celebrate. You as our friends took us out of combat readiness for the next 24 hours 🙂. I only have nice memories of you guys, but I also spoke some reasonable Russian at the time. And then I took my guitar and we played (horrible?) Beatles songs and all the rank and file and officers and the political officers were humming along to the class-enemy melodies (they did not know the English wording). "Give peace a chance!" was our favoured among the NVA and the Soviet comrades.
You guys were else very very helpful in times of need. Once during a large military exercise in a very cold and snowy winter night deep in the countryside of the GDR, a bad civilian car traffic accident with young German family occurred. They totalled their brand new Lada 2107 ending up at the roof, the driver (Dad) was somewhat hurt, his wife besides herself and it was freezing cold and lots of snow. Their luggage was strewn all over this snowy and extremely icy country road in the dark and we had nothing to take care of the two crying and shocked small kids and the woman sitting in light clothing on the road side in the snow, shaking like crazy.
A Soviet army bus with a lot of Soviet officer's wives came along just passing by and stopped immediately, just out of the blue and totally by coincident. The though Soviet ladies travelling along immediately took charge, giving commands to the big brass (they even didn't dare to say anything), taking care of the freezing children, wiping noses and tears, cuddling them like their own, handing out hot tea from thermos flasks and dragging the wife with our help gently into their bus and then drove all of them inside this steamy warm army vehicle off to their barracks for immediate treatment in their Soviet military hospital. No discussion, no questions allowed, just immediate help out of deep humanity. Watching all these Soviet big-hearted Babushkas making sure of the well-being of the shaken-up children and their Mom - military exercise or not - was something I will never forget in my life.
1989 we were all so happy that this f....g cold war was finally over. Unfortunately politicians on both side again screwed it so badly.
Still, I only have nice memories and no one is taking them away from me.
However later, just before reunification I felt not good about the then still existing USSR and the way many Western politicians treated its leadership and country in general. I therefore resigned (as a tank lieutenant i.R.) because I never wanted to fight against peoples of the USSR (or other countries just in general). Both my grandfathers were fighting during WW2 in the USSR and they always reminded me to make peace with the Soviet Union and Russia. "Never again!" they always said.
However, where ever you are right now - all the Best and thanks for an always good time in "your" barracks during these dark times of the cold war.
Peace! from Dresden / Germany
@@gerdlunau8411this was a lovely read, thank you for writing this up and sharing
The former East German Mig 29's painted in their new Luftwaffe colors were quite a sight to see.
Ah finally, your channel is about DDR and it's an obligatory to discuss about its military, positive and negative aspects of it, much like the previous topics. I love your channel because it is detailed & included German language sources.
Always appreciate your content.
Thank you!
These videos are the best! Thank you for the diligent research and excellent presentation.
According to memoirs of various Soviet Army's officers worked with their East German collegues, the NVA was the most ready for combat and the most motivated amongst all the Warsaw pact's members' national armed forces.
Btw, do you know, who from former Wehrmacht generals took part in establishing of the NVA and served there? I know about four of them: 3 Maj. Gen:s - Arno von Lenski (interestingly he was a member of the Volksgerichtshof in 1941), Hans Wulz (the last former Wehrmacht general resigned from the NVA) and Otto Korfess - and Lt. Gen. Vincenz Mueller (two last were Knight's Cross' holders).
The mention of the MiG-29 fighter aircraft was illustrated with a photo of the much earlier MiG-21, an unrelated aircraft
Right. Would have been perfect to present a picture of a MiG-29 in Bundeswehr (Western German) markings.
you see,instead of this terrible failure the world is still turning!
Another excellent episode! Every time one of these drops I can be sure I’ll be impressed. I spent a great deal of time studying the NVA for my job in the USAF in West Berlin (88-93) and this was a great overview of the East German Army. I learned a lot about the drawdown from this video. Thanks!
I would love our host to someday do a deep dive into the NVA Construction Units (Baueinheiten), where East Germany’s conscientious objectors were compelled to do a type of military service, building things and other non-combatant roles. I bet the stories about it are fascinating. I’ve always been intrigued by the people who rebelled against the state and how they did it. A friend I made from East Berlin after The Wall fell told me about this unit and said he planned on joining it when it was his time to serve.
Same here. USAF German linguist at Hahn AB in 1981-83.
Love the content and the initiative of this channel! Only nagging correction: the plane you show at 14:51 is a MIG 21, not a MIG 29
A friend of mine was part of a programme in the early nineties. She trained former NVA officers how to work in shipping and logistics.
The NVA dismantling and integration into the Bundeswehr (and society at large) is such a fascinating subject. Especially in terms of the oversized officer corp.
Ah yes. Especially the integration process of NVA & Bundeswehr, fascinating, I watched some doku about it. Despite of hiccups, it was finally ended in success.
@@Cyan_Nightingale A lot of resentment over how all retained NVA personnel were demoted one rank, and retired NVA vets were denied military pensions while Nazi veterans got their pensions.
@@IrishCarney better.. it was not ended in sabotage or rebellion. Meanwhile I doubt if the two Koreans can do the same.. considering how more fanatical the North Koreans are than the East Germans.
@@IrishCarneywait vets lost all their pensions? Also what was the official reason for demoting them
@@amogusenjoyer It kinda goes without saying. If the NVA is supposed to be a mere tool of the communist regime that has been oppressing the people for years, then its members cannot be treated as equals upon reunification. Not necessarily fair, but it is the way of things.
Great video! The GDR really fascinates me as it seemed to mysterious during the Cold War.
Zoals gewoonlijk weer een erg interessante video. Doet me denken aan mijn jongere jaren. Als kind pendelden we al als Nederlands-Tsjechisch gezin vaak naar het Oostblok, maar reizen door de DDR was voor ons een te groot risico. Pas begin 1990 konden wij voor het eerst door voormalig DDR reizen. Wat een verschil met tegenwoordig als we via Magdeburg naar Praag reizen. Begin jaren 90 volbracht ik ook mijn dienstplicht in Seedorf. Toen was alles nog gericht op de Russische doctrine, want er was eigenlijk geen alternatief tijdens de opleiding. We hebben het Russisch materieel en organisatie nog uit het hoofd moeten leren, ondanks eigenlijk al achterhaald.
Great video. I’ve always been interested in the history of East Germany; the NVA, politics, and Stasi in particular.
That being said, it would be great you do videos about the following topics:
Corps Colors and Ranks
of the NVA, Grenztruppen, and Stasi.
Government Buildings of the GDR (Schloss Schönhausen, the Staatsratsgebäude, Majakowskiring, etc).
Banknotes of East Germany (in particular the story of the 200 DDM and 500 DDM banknotes).
Keep up the good work and Danke Schön for your videos.
A fascinating, well researched glimpse into a forgotten and hidden part of recent history. You cannot learn from the past by hiding, and forgetting it. Thank you very much for posting this.
Looked to be a Mig-21. Great video, very informative. Danke.
Great report, thank you very much.
Excellent videos. I haven’t been back to Berlin since 1988. So much has changed.
Ahhh... the NVA, one of the few armies in the history of mankind to capitulate to their enemies without a single shot being fired. Good stuff.
Well they shot at the Border...
Another great video, thanks
Great overview of the NVA. The best book that I've read on the subject is Thomas Forster's "The East German Army: Second in the Warsaw Pact."
Another good and balanced video. We can see you have done your reading before publishing.
One interesting detail is how most of the GDR navy ships got sold to Indonesia. No surprise they had a problem to do a trip that Dutch ships did for centuries without much problems. Another two former GDR navy ships were bought by Malta and sunk near the coast. They serve now as an attraction for divers.
I would like to add that it was not possible to refuse military service in the GDR, which is why my father, who was a pacifist for religious reasons, became a construction soldier (Bausoldat). This possibility of conscientious objection was unique for socialist countries. But the decision not to do military service was hard-won for Christians and pacifists. The state regarded them as shirkers, enemies of the state and members of the opposition. They had to reckon with special harassment during and after their service as a construction soldier.
I continue to be fascinated by your offerings about the DDR.
thank you!
Very informative video, thanks for sharing. Cheers
An extremely interesting video. Well researched.
Fun facts about the NVA: Those "Conscientious Objectors" troops were called "Bau Soldat" (work troops) and were absolutely treated like dirt. They wore special shoulderboards with a small shovel emblem on them. Supposedly they spent their entire 18 month long service essentially with no leave or permission to leave base and worked almost constantly at the dirtiest jobs the Army had. Another less grim thing: the NVA soldiers had a saying that they'd "kept the uniforms but gotten rid of the Generals" as a dig at the west for the high percentage of ex-Wehrmacht generals in the BW.
Well, as I was told plenty of them worked in civil projects too, making their lives a bit easier. The NVA armed units of course considered them cowards, although long time ago I changed my mind about them. The nick-name of these units were "spade-soldiers", because of this extra symbol in their shoulder boards. They had their standard leave which was very very little like most of all the other NVA units, like the one I served with.
The spade-soldiers were supposed to dig the trenches in war time, the first ones at the front line with nothing to defend themselves.
I served as a tank commander but today I am an absolute pacifist. When my neighbours invited me to a shooting range with AKs recently, I declined.
We do not need more weapons and guns, we need diplomatic efforts!
Peace! from Dresden / Germany
Excellent video. Absolutely fascinating
Excellent!
Greatly informative video as always.
Well done.
The stubble looks good too!
It's a pleasure listening to you. :)
Thanks from Lübeck.
On a family trip, we drove through the DDR at the very end, June 1990. I recall in the town square of Wittenburg, people were selling surplus NVA uniforms and regalia. I should've bought some! The border guards were still checking the trunk of our rental car and luggage. They were nice, though. One showed us a picture of his wife and kid, and we exchanged addresses (we were from California), and became pen pals!
Fascinating and excellent. Thank you for your work and producing these fantastic videos.
That was interesting. You mentioned a special pacifist unit was created which enabled conscientious objectors to avoid military service. That is an interesting topic too. They suffered some abuse at the hands of their commanding officers, but then, so did the regular NVA soldiers. By the way, I just came back from a trip to California. I had hoped to visit the "Die Wende" museum in Culver City, a suburb of Los Angeles. Unfortunately, they were closed during the month of April for spring cleaning. They have a homepage which I can recommend and are open on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. The museum is a very rare opportunity for Americans to see objects from and displays about the former GDR. From the looks of the homepage, it shouldn't be missed!
There was a fair share of abuse particular towards the new arrivals of conscripts in almost all units but not by the officers, rather by the rank and file within the barracks. Well, if you leave mostly young men in hordes without proper leave and harsh discipline aggressivity and stupidity overwhelms them. Same when US ships anchored after weeks-long voyages at the seas. I lived for a while in Hongkong and holy cow, the whole city was holding its breath when another US war ship came in for a weekend.
The ones opting not to serve with a gun or armament were organised into "spade" units, where they had to service their required 18 months but without any weapons. "Spade" because they had a small spade at their shoulder boards. It was unique in the Warsaw pact and created on the initiative of the Catholic and Protestant churches in the GDR.
Within ordinary NVA units these soldiers were considered cowards and therefore pretty much disliked. However, they did not come into contact with the regular units that much. Only at the public places they might have some abusive remarks hurled against them.
Avoiding the military service as a male between 18 and 50 years of age was impossible, de-drafting because of health issues almost impossible. Even the most sick man got a position, often as a military clerk.
I myself served in the East-German army from 1983 to 1986 as a tank commander. I hope you can still visit the museum. But if you are interested in the life of ordinary citizens in the GDR I recommend Katja Hoyer's "Beyond the Wall". My childhood memories are starting somewhere in the middle of the book.
The book is great because it does not follow all this ideologic narratives of Western propaganda or evil stories of victims but also does not leave out the shortcomings and injustices within the socialist system. It costs only a few bucks and can be easily fished from the big South-American river.
Peace! from Dresden / Germany
@@gerdlunau8411 Vielen Dank, Gerd!
Berlin Notes
Grenztruppen (the most unreliable military in the Warsaw Pact)
I don’t recall posting a comment here on this issue. My apologies if this is redundant.
I served under President Reagan as a Senior NCO in the US Army, stationed in the occupied city of West Berlin from 1981 to 1984.
Membership in NATO was formed from western allies voluntarily; France was excluded because they chose not to join at that time. Membership in Warsaw Pact was formed, and enforced by Soviet forces, in countries they invaded (rescued from Nazism) during World War II. Any country that tried to leave the Warsaw Pact because of freedom movements (East Germany (DDR) / Hungary / Czechoslovakia) faced violent suppression by the Soviet forces. The members of the Warsaw Pact were not the comrades as the PR often claim. It appeared similar events would happen in Poland during the 1980’s.
I was attached to the Military Intelligence (MI) Detachment as an interrogator tasked with interviewing defectors (Border Guard / Military) and refugees (civilians) from all of the various Pact countries. They were fleeing similar oppression with many vivid stories of their own. We had an almost constant flow during my time there.
During those years we met with four Grenztruppen who had escaped to defect:
1. One private swam the river
2. Another showed up at a local nightclub, also soaking wet.
3. An NCO and private escaped together. They had tied up a third member of the patrol.
4. Others did not make it to us.
All three soldiers were sent westward and did well in the West. A few days later, the NCO ran back across the border to the DDR and disappeared.
The NCO did go back to East Germany! He was probably a plant sent to scope out our activities and personnel involved in escapes. Anybody could go visit the DDR through Checkpoint Charlie. This is why we were asked not to go there because our visit might be a lot longer than desired!
There was a UK celebration in Berlin during my time there: I think one of the Queen’s reign tattoos. The British unit stationed there for their one year assignment was 1st Battalion/ Grenadier Guards. It was a large celebration with massed bands and the Royal Horse Artillery firing their cannon. Afterwards the UK troops went to visit the DDR in full bearskins and dress uniforms. I wonder what the DDR checkpoint guards thought; Is this the invasion?
Regards
This is not redundant at all! Thanks for taking the effort writing it here.
As someone who lives in Australia, in 1975 we endured a coup actively enabled by the US government when the locals threatened to end or at least renegotiate the lease on Pine Gap, a very, very significant US space and intelligence asset. So much for freedom. I also note that the US was deeply involved in supporting movements in Italy and France and Greece and Turkey to ensure that none of them moved to the wrong side of the NATO bloc. Let's not get too misty eyed about 'freedom'. As Thucydides observed some 2400 years ago, 'The strong do what they will and the weak endure what they must'.
It is also interesting to note that in 1968 the US had an infantry division, an armoured division and a parachute division (82nd Airborne) actively engaged with National Guard units in suppressing their own citizens. More US citizens died in 1968 at the hands of their own government than died in Czechoslovakia. Does that make the USSR the good guys? No, but the truth is that power speaks, whatever colour it wears.
In the interests of balance, regarding our colonial master's post above, here is a list of the countries the USA helped save from straying by keeping them voluntarily onside en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#1945%E2%80%931991:_Cold_War
Thank you kindly for your work, sir.
Your channel is really interesting, many thanks for this and the other videos too.
Also a lot of NVA equipment wound up in conflicts in Africa (Congo, Sudan) etc.
Fantastic channel studying am often overlooked aspect of the cold war. The internal workings of the Warsaw Pact member countries (aside from the USSR) are not something that you can easily get a lot of reliable information on in English. Thank you very much for this and keep up the great work.
Excellent explanation 👍
I was watching old NVA parades and I found it interesting that they were still mainly using WW2 era soviet armaments by the 1960s
Subscribed. Very interesting and well delivered video, I'm looking forward to learning more about the GDR
Very informative as always. Willi Stoph, Defence Minister in the 1950s, was a former Wehrmacht soldier. His successor, Heinz Hoffman, was a veteran of the Spanish civil war. I see from other comments that NVA personnel did see "active service" abroad; this could usefully be included in any revision of this presentation.
The presence of NVA troops in East Berlin (i.e. the 4-Power occupied city) was, I understand, a breach of the terms of the 4-Power agreement as neither East nor West Germany could have military in occupied Berlin. Nothing was done about it, but as I understand it, at the Allied Checkpoints between the 3 Allied zones and East Berlin, the Americans only interacted with the Soviet soldiers.
What a Great Video highly researched
I highly appreciate your enthousiasm and effort for making those videos. Please do 'Jugendwerkhof' youth prisons and cosmonaut Sigmund Jähn next please !
Thank you always for the reference list
Would be nice to hear more about the events that caused tension between east en west. For example during the NATO exercise Checkmate, two pilots lost their orientation under bad weather conditions and ended up in GDR airspace, where they were chased by dozens of MiGs. American traffic control in West Berlin guided them safely to Tegel airport. The incident grew into a problem for BRD defence minister Strauss.
Ich ware einem US grenze soldat im Deutchland 83 bis 86 im dienst,dann bist 2000 als “civilian”. Meine Deutcher schwiegersohn kommt aus Dresden. Die wohnen weniger als einem kilometer von meine alte barake. 😊 der welt ist komisch.
I am from Dresden too, served from 1983 to 1986 as a T-55 tank commander in the NVA but moved in 1991 to Hanau, with a big garrison of US military personnel. I still have the sing-sang in my ears when the US-units ran their circles at their sport arena behind our factory halls with the little unit flag carried by the forerunner and song shouter. Brilliant!
When we had a beer and a little BBQ for lunch just behind the factory hall close to this arena and they were passing by, we sometimes cheered them up by raising our beer bottles and calling over a mighty "Prost!", we often got some middle fingers raised out of the sweating men crowd in return. The "boys" were certainly not amused. Funny indeed.
Yes, the world is sometimes weird, but what can be said is those politicians on both sides of the fence had more courage, education and the well-being of their underlings on their minds than today. Which is why everything changed for the better and so peacefully in 1989/90.
We need to go back to this times of cooperation, mutual respect and honest deal brokering. Otherwise we are all doomed.
Regards and Peace! from Dresden / Germany
History takes some wild twists, indeed.
Excellent. Thank You
Interestingly, both German nations in their early years from 1949 to 1955 had no army but a (more or less secretly) militarized border patrol police. When the Federal Republic of Germany (aka Western Germany) joined NATO and established the Bundeswehr (armed forces), its Bundesgrenzschutz (Federal Border Security police) went back to patrolling borders only, but the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (aka Eastern Germany) integrated their border police into the army and made it a dedicated army unit which seemed to have been a particularly smooth transition.
As a formality your are wrong. In East-Germany the border units remained as what they were, similar to the independent border military in the USSR. The NVA was founded out of the "barracked police" as the video correctly stated. My Dad entered the service at the barracked police and left the service as an NVA soldier.
The border units in the GDR always remained an independent branch from the NVA, they were never integrated.
Peace! from Dresden / Germany
Hope you've seen the channel ITN Archive has uploaded a whole bunch of East German content from the wall coming down!
Love your videos however there are a couple of points which need clarification.
In your introduction it appears that you’ve implied that the Police units of the 1940-50s were unique to the DDR it’s worth pointing out that the W German Bundesgrenzschutz BGS was formed in the 1940s and was to all intents and purposes a militia army numbering around 10000 men when formed and 16000 by 1956.
The uniform issue is an interesting point. They were designed to look ‘German’ and hark back to WW1 and Prussian history. This was so that the new Army would be better accepted by the DDR population as ‘theirs’ rather than a Soviet clone. Again if you look at videos of the Bundes Grenzschutz in the 1950s there uniform is a direct clone of Wehrmacht kit right down to the coal scuttle helmets.
You briefly mentioned the option for uniformed but not weapon carrying service for conscripted DDR men. They were known as Bausoldat and It’s worth pointing out the DDR was the only Warsaw Pakt country where any kind of conscientious objection was possible. Becoming a Bausoldat was very difficult and meant giving up on any chance for higher education.
I love your videos and look forward to more
Excellent video-as usual.
Interessting video.
Thank you.
☮
Excellent video!
Love the channel.
A friendly note... there is no such word as "equipments". "Equipment" is both singular and plural.
Great video. Tak trzymać :) Greets from Poland!
My father was by the German Border Gard (Bundesgrenzschutz) from 1954 -1961.
Later from 1961 - 1992 Customer
Last rang was seargent first class
(Zollhauptsekretär).
Informative video very good thanks.
18 month for an 18 YO must seem like a lifetime.
Hardly, at that age you've been through multiple 2 year study/exam cycles, Mittele Reife then Abitur is similar to British GCSEs then A-Levels, most countries have similar pre-16 and post-16 standard course structures. It's half as long as an undergraduate degree.
how did you create the intro sound?
It is really epic, I love it!
excellent film!
I was sent twice to West-Germany in the mid 1980s when I was serving in the USAF. At that time i never thought that the cold war will never end. Five years latter, It did. I think of myself as well as others the we are Cold War Veterans and part of Cold War History. The nice part about it , The west won not firing a shot. Very good video you did , Thank you from a Cold War Veteran.👍🪖
I think everyone won, it was crazy. So many people got freedom when it ended. Sadly, putin is not among those that think that it was a good thing that it came to an end.
I was in W Germany in June 1989, headed to the SFR Yugo to visit relatives. At the time, I thought that the wall would never come down, the Cold War would remain just that way…Berlin was not “en route” and sadly I never witnessed the intact Berlin Wall. But I certainly recall celebrating when Germany reunified.
@@TheFrewahbecause it brought the decade of the 90s and the exploitation of Russia by the west under a weak Yeltsin
@@liljojo8813 Exploitation wasn’t brought to russia by ”The West”, it was entirely domestic, that’s how the so called ”oligarchs” could lay their hands on so much. Not possible where there’s rule by law. Putin himself embezzled money meant to help ordinary people and was almost prosecuted when someone helped him.
I find myself hopelessly fascinated by your videos, thank you.
Your final comment, regarding reunification, and describing it as a take over rather than a merger. If this final period is included in the scope of your channel, it would be great to see from your perspective.
Geweldige aflevering weer man. Enorm bedankt weer!
Finland bought plenty of material from the ex GDR surplus paying scrap prices, eg t72s, BMPs, D-30, M-46, 2S1 and a lot of AK-47s. The MI-24 was a close call to have been shipped to Finland as well. The D-30 howitzer is still in active use
The state of constant readiness perhaps deserves a separate video. Conscription soldiers were pretty much locked in in the first year and their time also included "political education", especially for people that wanted to study. The constant readiness also meant that in case of an inner-german conflict, the NVA would have likely overrun the west german Bundeswehr who had a much more relaxed system and approx a week reaction time to match the readiness levels of the NVA.
Wer kennt sie nicht, die glorreiche NVA, die direkt aus den Kasernen in einem Rutsch bis über den Rhein vorgestoßen wäre... 😅
Spass bei Seite. Jede Armee, vor allem in den Größenordnungen des Kalten Krieges, benötigt Tage, wenn gar eine Woche um eine ausreichende Anzahl Truppen aufmarschieren zu lassen.
Der Grund dafür, dass die NVA Soldaten nie Zuhause schlafen durften, muss also ein anderer gewesen sein.
(Ideologisch, politisch etc. )
Ein Aufmarsch von Truppen in einer größeren Anzahl, war für keine der beiden Gegner zu verheimlichen gewesen. Man hatte ja diverse Aufklärungsmöglichkeiten wie Satelliten, Spione etc.
Ich weiß, dass dieses Ammenmärchen, wohl vor allem in den östlichen Bundesländern existiert, man hätte am Wochenende den Krieg gewonnen, weil die Bundeswehr ihre Soldaten Nachhause fahren ließ und die NVA Soldaten immer in der Kaserne schlafen mussten.
Nach dem dritten Bier klingt sowas total plausibel.
Mir wurde die Geschichte auch schon von Arbeitskollegen (gelernten DDR-Bürgern) erzählt.
Sie ist aber natürlich nachweislich Quatsch 😅😅
Just nagging , the picture is something much older than a mig29. The GDR were issued fairly up to date revisions. Just never the latest.
Thanks!
Thanks for another amazing and well done video. Please keep them coming.
I wish to learn as much as possible about this subject for some reason.
Geweldig kanaal ! Ik hoor toch echt heel goed Engels met een Nederlands accent. Klopt dit?
I served on a GDR Navy warship for a few years in the 70s. It was a hard time. I have experienced several times at sea (Baltic Sea) how our ships were provoked by the Federal Navy with direct maneuvers. I also saw the then US Navy destroyer "Contz" off the island of Moen - it targeted our ship with its missile ramps. Anything but peaceful maneuvers.
Very interesting indeed !
The NVA was a poor army by the 1980s. The majority of its armoured vehicles were 1950s design like a T-55 or the BMP-1. The same happened with aircrafts or ships that had been obsolete since the 1970s. And don't even mention night vision or surface to air missiles better than a SAM-2. Countries like Egypt or Vietnam scraped the SAM-2 during the 1980s. Here on YT we can watch the original coverage of 1980s NVA parades held in East Berlin with the original comment told to East Germans at that time. That is fun to watch.
Then there is the fact the border troops (Grenztruppen der DDR) existed, because the people wanted to run away. This resulted in units of the NVA being smaller for a country of that size in Europe during the Cold War. The 44'000 soldiers could have served in the NVA, and all the resources wasted at the border used for better equipment.
They had T-62s in the early 80s and BTRs. They had SA-3s as well as 2s. The MiG-21 was still a good interceptor through the 1980s, although the fact that the air force used GCI hurt their effectiveness.
I recently started following your channel and Its already one of my favourites! Keep up the good work!
Thank you for this video! It's interesting that you have mentioned more unknown parts of NVA history. Also, do your stats on NVA personnel include kampfgruppen der arbeiterklasse personnel? I reckon it was a big force that had to fight alongside the NVA if conflict happened
And as I asked under some previous video, will there be a video about them sometime in the future? It's such an unusual organisation for current time
Another good and related topic could be the Kampfgruppen der Arbeitsklasse.
The MIG that you illustrated was a MIG 21 not a MIG 29.
Thank you, good and neutral video as always. Showcasing the prior militarization of the other part is especially helpful.
Sometimes I just think - maybe it was better to strike somewhen in the 70s when our alliance was at its best and the West dealt with the oil crisis. But no, our executives chose to sell oil to the enemy. Always being second, always waiting, always in a defensive posture. Even today some remnants of this defensive policy remains.
I've heard it was no fun to be a draftee in the NVA. The quality of the uniform was appalling, very scratchy - up to the point of being unwearable. Most of the time they were bored out of their skull. For the "Bausoldaten" the conditions were even worse.
In the air force they always had the plane de-icing fluid to drain and drink. We always joked that was why they didn't fly as much in the winter.
Had an east german T72, battery powered. DDR was very good talking about toys
An east german toy tank? Fascinating!
@@TheFrewah and the commander was sitting proudly inside the moveable turret. Good fun as I remember.
The Luftstreitkräfte MiG29 FULCRUM you've pictured, that's a MiG21 FISHBED (probably a FISHBED-N).
Interesting video though all told & one wonders whether the lessons from merging the NVA into the Bundeswehr were forgotten by the time it came to Iraq and dealing with the winding down of its Army....
Going back though, to the Air Force, the Luftwaffe made sparing use of the ex-DDR fleet except for the MiG29's (iirc they were sent to Wittmund - but someone else may well be able to correct that if that's an error) & then fitted out with a fairly broad update, served for years & then got passed to Poland and now, I'm almost certain, are with the Ukrainians.
Thus, ex-Soviet built aircraft, in the service of the GDR, ended up, within NATO and now fighting jets built by the Soviets over Eastern Europe. How the World turns eh?
I don't know how much of the Luftstreitkräfte fleet survived the scrap-man - I mean, all the Sukhoi Su-17/22 FITTER aircraft got Luftwaffe markings, but never flew operationally with them (same goes for the MiG21s etc.), it was merely an administrative exercise for disposal - but I'd have loved to have seen one of everything saved for posterity.
There is though, I can report, at the Weston-super-Mare Helicopter Museum (for those who don't know, W-S-M is in Somerset and Westland tested at the airfield), has in its collection, a DDR Mil-24 HIND-D assault-helicopter & yes, one can see why the Mujahedeen called them "The Devil's Chariot" over Afghanistan in the 1980s (Soviet and Afghan ones, not DDR ones of course).
Its fascinating though, imho, that unlike the Czech's with Aero and the Poles with their LIM & PZL designs, the DDR using technology recovered from the RLM, never built - as far as I know - even their own jet training planes & their one go at a jet airliner for Interflug failed (which would have been a highly successful development & I'd have been interested to see how the Soviets coped with having a competitor for overseas orders!). I mean, even the Yugoslavs built some, for the Era, advanced jet aircraft like the Soko Galeb (I think that translates as "Seagull").
But again, very interesting video & also, more generally, very interesting content overall.
The photo at 14:52 shows a MIG-21 Fishbed instead that of a MIG-29 Fulcrum.
The higher percentage of officer redundancies is also down to the assignment of duties - many Warsaw pact forces had junior officers performing tasks carried out by NCO's in Nato.
Pretty sure that was a MIG 21 pictured, not a MIG 29.
Basically the Bundeswehr and NVA were the East/West German equivalents of the Japan Self Defense Force. On paper it's was a militarised police force for self defense but an actual military organisation in practice.
no, NVA was the DDR army and Bundeswher was West Germany army
@@baihui7349
West Berlin had a 'police force' of 25,000 with light infantry weapons and special forces.
There was a German comedy film called ”NVA” from 2005 which I haven’t seen, only the trailer. One I saw was ”Goodbye Lenin” which was very enjoyable, so much that I bought it on DVD. The film ”The Death of Stalin” is absolutely hilarious. I ordered it on DVD but it hasn’t been delivered yet