This video is awesome in the way you're delivering & breaking down the information in layman's terms. Thank you. The drivers themselves seem fantastic as well. They will be used in some fashion in one of my systems. 👌🏼👌🏼
FWIW, I'm currently crossing over the door speakers in my car at 160(!) Hz. Cabin gain fills in a bit of what's missing below there and then the subwoofer takes over. The high x-over point is to reduce distortion at higher volumes, caused by both the drivers and all the rattling crap in the doors....
I've built a 2.5 way MTMM with Purifi woofers and BlieSMa T25B tweeters. To me, they're one of the very best speakers I've ever heard. If you'd like to know more let me know.
I think you touched on every t/s parameter in this video and you said them as if you were talking about what you had for lunch. That's scary and awesome at the same time.
Well, definitely not every one of them. I've been working on trying to have someone come on and explain the parameters fully, because there's a LOT I still don't understand about them.
Great tests, thanks. Did you have the opportunity to test the SB Acoustics SATORI MW16TX-8 midrange speaker? What is the distortion compared to PTT8.0X0z-NAB-02? Thanks.
its a cool looking woofer surround , but in slow-motion you can still see the weird uneven buckling of the woofer as it drives. The future will be the res-core designs when they get efficient enough. pure control and stability with piston support the whole length of the woofers at least for bass and lower woofers, AMT and other techs will be taking over midrange.
Hi Erin, First up I love these things the more that I listen to them, levels of clarity better than anything I have heard to date. I noticed that in the two reviews of these Purify 6.5 inch drivers you keep mentioning offhand that the drivers should be high-passed. But you never articulated why? Here are my thoughts about the drivers. I purchased two of the 8 ohm versions and placed them directly in my HEDD V1 type 20s (no internal dsp), swapping out the original 6.5 inch drivers. I have a highly resolving system and highly treated nearfield studio. What I do agree with is in the midrange, dam these things are wickedly accurate. A whole other level to any driver I have heard before. But a couple of things. 1) The curve of course shows not much bass at all. Yet the prob is the bass down there is really one-note. Even mid-bass is pretty sketchy. Midrange awesome, go lower and.... 2) So the drivers are pitched as a high excursion driver. OK, but high excursion is mostly useful with bass. So here is the thing that I cringe to say because this is a jewel of a driver. Ready for it? At high excursion, meaning loud playing mid-bass & bass, Those surrounds stop doing their delicate low distortion from the sound thing. And .....they literally flop back and forth. Not so much in and out, but a distinct back and forth. When you move the driver by hand at high excursions you can see it. And that flopping back and forth of the surround. Makes a distinct very audible sound. It sounds like rubber flopping back and forth at high speed. Moving your ear around close to the driver, it is the surrounds. So this is really easy to control by either backing off on volume, thus less excursion. Or alternatively by high passing so that long excursion frequencies cannot find their way to the driver. I think that this did not show up in your tests, because the volume and duration of your test tone sweep would not show it. If you placed the driver in a real box and played music through it loud you definitely will hear it. My pass is incredible drivers, for midrange, incredible, and the surrounds work perfect in that range. But don't get sold on the long excursion part of the pitch. I do plan to get a pair of the Purify 8 inch aluminum coned drivers when they are available in December. Looking forward to them for all they look like they can do. Just hoping I don't get bit by the long throw causing the surrounds to flop back and forth thing. Because I do want them to perform and hit with low-distortion as a woofer.
8" drivers generally have more distortion in the midrange than 5" counterparts. I think we can agree that this 8" is an achievement. It has a lot less 3rd order distortion in Purifi's 90dB plots and quite similarly in your 96dB data. We can clearly see that if not for some (very low) suspension asymetry, this would be a new level of accuracy at least in publicly known drivers. Seriously, as far as midrange goes, we're in electrostatic territory.
Thats because most 8 inch doesn't have copper sleeve in air gap. They have thick aluminum ring in magnet inner gap which is better for low bass distortiin and IMD.
LOL, Love the video's thumbnail, mate! Don't know how I missed this video. Have been eagerly awaiting the review and release of this 8" driver since Lars first mentioned that it was in development several years ago. She's a Beaut, Clark!!! Thanks again for the massive time and effort in testing and producing the website reviews & YT videos for all of these drivers! Still using the PTT6.5 in the car with stellar results, but these 8" drivers are SO TEMPTING! :-P Of course, I'm "all in" to see how you'd implement them in the Civic. ;-) DOOOO IT!
Here is my setup which uses the original 6.5" Purifi for the 1200-450Hz range on a PA system: th-cam.com/video/vB1oQhc-5Po/w-d-xo.html I might have gone with the 8" but it was years late in coming. Hats off to Lars & Co for getting it out there finally and for producing such great drivers!
I almost wish these came out a few months ago when I was building a pair of 8 inch, 2 way monitors. I ended up using the FaitalPro 8pr200, which are excellent drivers, but these new purifi drivers are pretty sweet. I wonder how the two would compare on the Klippel since the FaitalPro also has a stated xmax of 8.15mm, and is a little higher sensitivity. Obviously, the purifi is able to play lower, but as you said, most people should be crossing these with a subwoofer anyway. It would be interesting to see what 3x the price actually gets you in real-world use. Lower distortion? How much lower? Greater linearity? Maybe a better question is "what might I be missing by saving 3x the money?" Oh well, I am still delighted when I listen to my speakers, and that is the most important thing I suppose. Excellent review, as always. I hope to see more drive units in the future.
i doubt the xmax rated by Faital can be compared to the purifi. Faital pro uses the formula for Xmax ( voice coil length - air gap )/2 + air gap/ 3 . Air gap in your driver is most likely 8mm. So subtract 2.7 mm which leaves 5.5mm
@@super-z8943 maybe, but a lot of the faital stuff that audioxpress and others measure usually meets their spec, at least in motor strength and inductance. Similar to the purifi, they sometimes fail to meet compliance spec. Another question would be if that crazy excursion capability is really necessary. Even at full power I don’t think either of the drivers would actually be using 8mm, or even 5.5 for that matter. That is with a proper high pass of course. I suppose they would be more likely to remain in the flat part of the Bl curve if the driver had some headroom though.
@@noahnovotny2100 With high pass, its a different consideration. For 2 way without sub it would matter. But then pro drivers have stiffer compliances and hence not much bass, mostly.
These and the Scanspeak Illuminator are the best 7" and 8" woofers (almost in the world pretty much or almost) but i find them to be interesting to compare the differences. I suspect these can handle more power since the Scans are underhung..
Criticism intended to be constructive, love what you do so not dumping on you! I know you don't consider non-linear distortion particularly important, but many of us do. To only discuss the LF point where THD rises above 1% is rather missing the point of a dedicated midrange driver - in that case you'd simply use a mid-bass. Indeed, reduced non-linear distortion is the entire reason for the 'underhung' voice coil design of the 'M' version. If reviewing a mid-range driver IMHO the midrange (~500Hz-5KHz) distortion levels and spectrum (relative levels of 2nd, 3rd, 4th) really deserve more screen time. While THD is only an indicator of the broader heading of non-linear distortion it is the measure that has been used the longest and therefore makes for easiest comparison with other drivers.
Fair. "Screen Time"... the data is on my site. I choose to focus on the points that I feel are most important to watchers. The vast majority are more concerned with bandwidth application so I leave the HD deep-dives for those who want to go to my site and look at the data. 👍
@@ErinsAudioCorner I appreciate the measurements are on your site and that's really helpful. I think you have said before the videos are largely to help beginners get an understanding of what the data means and in that respect you do an amazing job. In this case the mid-band distortion is almost -10dB lower (!) than many other drivers so it seemed worthy of note. I like that you discussed this a little bit in the KEF Reference 1 review.
Great review as always; I’m thinking about using either purifi or the SB satori textreme woofers in a 2way. Any plan to review some from that particular line of SB woofers in the future?
Hi Erin! I read on your site you were going to review a diy bookshelf using some of these woofers, did that ever happen? Do you have a link to it? Thank you
Thanks for this Erin. Your review is what led me to buying my current mids...the w800neos. I may head down to Al's next get together so hopefully you will be there and I can pick your brain (if gas isn't $8 a gallon). These are certainly on my radar.....
I’m also kind of curious, I have both of them sitting on a shelf. A rep from Parts Express said they were comparable to the Purifi’s, but at less than 1/3 of the price, it’s hard to imagine
Thanks for the advice on small mid-woofers! I'm now using 18wu/8741T00 as mid-woofer and was wondering if it already can go to 35Hz, what's the necessity to place a larger size woofer. Do you have any experience on woofer from faital pro? Planning to add another pair of woofer/sub. Theirs seems to be great option as well.
Thanks for this. Still the best in Objective reviews. I have to wonder what, if any, are the tradeoffs on the midrange surround? I.E. - preventing cone deformation vs. edge diffraction as sound waves hit those really rough edges of the surround? Maybe the benefits outweigh the losses, but I do wonder how some of that unusual diffraction might affect imaging and soundstage presentation? Just thinking out loud and putting it out there as a point of consideration...
Thank you. I think the surround diffraction matters when you are talking about drivers placed nearby (or if this were a coaxial and the surround was part of the waveguide).
Is not edge diffraction more relevant at frequencies above what a rational cutoff would be for this 8" (around 1khz-1.5khz at most)? If it were me I'd be using a large waveguide or oblate spheroid horn that offered sufficient coupling down to that range or below, and then cross-over to a sub or large woofer acting as a sub in the main cabinets, with at least a 1st order at 200hz+ or greater for low to moderate listening levels, or 12db/octave or greater at 200hz for high listening levels. I'd want the woofer doing virtually all the work up to 100hz and most of the work to 150hz. But my ideal design with these would be a 3-way with the woofer basically acting as a sub but with higher than average frequency extension upwards, using something like a high end B&C pro 15", not a true "sub", but a proper implementation could still easily give you 30hz or even 20-25hz in the right design, with DSP EQ. I prefer a simple 2 channel setup which basically gives you the benefits of having "2 subs" in essence, for better bass distribution. You could amp the woofers separately if desired depending on your power amp and what you're into, you could even throw some servos in there if you gave them their own amps, though I don't find that necessary. Right now I have some 15" jbl 2225h's as my mains woofers and they play solid down to 30hz in my implementation, but not below that. But they have to play beyond their ideal range in the 1k-1.5k region. I want to make a similar design where the pro 15"s can stop at say 500-800hz or less, but for that I need a waveguide/OS horn that can play to 500-800hz and those are large and expensive unless I make it myself. There would be a super tweeter on top as my current speakers have... my non-waveguide/os horns that I have now are starting at 1k-1.5k peaking at 2k (rolloff might start there) and playing through to 8-9k ish where the ribbon tweeter takes over... but I want to expand the horns role to do at least 800hz and then drop out earlier too, maybe 5-8khz, where a tweeter can get the last 1-2 octaves. Then the drivers can all be in a more ideal range and I can get more midrange/lower-midrange detail vs the 15"s, though they do better than you might imagine... consider the fact that at most reasonable listening levels, the 15"s are barely moving from their bass duty, so the mids are not colored or distorted to a significant or problematic degree. Only when I crank it... and even then, with only 100-150 ultra clean watts on tap, I'm still not pushing x-max. The biggest weakness of my current speakers is that old rectangular horn design. I use a multiband DSP EQ to the best effect that I can, but there are things you can't fix. My next design will definitely have 15"s, only question is do I use another smaller midbass driver to handle ~150-200hz up to ~1khz and then go horn/waveguide above that, or get my horn/waveguide to meet up with the 15" at ~800hz or less and put a super tweeter on top. Many compression drivers could hit 16k on their own and I'd be satisfied with that I can't hear higher than that anyway, but they do get beamy in that last octave. I'm primarily concerned with the sweet spot. I guess I could go 4-way and have the best of all worlds... 15", then midbass, then CD horn/waveguide, then super tweeter. That's some serious money though. Check out Geddes NS-15 speakers ("Summa") for the OS horn inspiration. We're talking like around a 15" round mouth opening, but this is a true horn not just a waveguide, it's deep, with a 2" throat compression driver. Talk about sensitivity!!! You'd have to pad it to the woofer but even then, good pro 15"s from B&C, jbl, or faitalpro etc., can reach ~100db sensitivity, while the compression drivers can reach another 8+ db above that. With a foam plug (like the geddes design) even less padding would likely be required.
Hello Erin, I have a question about a disaster with a pair of paridigm studio 100’s v5. I failed to shut down my system when I left home and somehow in the process of being gone my Spotify account played several hours of Marcus King at full volume. It messed up quite a bit of equipment but I still have the tweeters and white aluminum mids in the 100’s and the three 7” bass drivers in each are toast. I can’t get the specs on them from paradigm and I wondered if you might have a 19:52 suggestion through your knowledge, on replacement drivers? I really like these purifies and would probably be making crossover changes to fit new design better. Thanks for any help or suggestions on were to turn. Paradigm just wants to sell me new speakers
I am VERY close to scrapping the WM8 in the kicks idea for these instead. It's just going to be a bas***d to fit a 4in deep driver in the drivers side next to the clutch pedal. But I may do exactly this =)
@jprieto727 There will still be SOME nulls & peaks even in 95% of kickpanel locations, even IB. But those peaks & nulls might just be less severe and/or shifted to a different frequency that is less of an issue. Erin has done this in his previous Honda Civic daily driver SQ car, albeit with different drivers with excellent results. I'll be curious to see how he intends to implement the 8" Purifi drivers in his new Civic, IF he decides to give them a try. This Purifi driver being an aluminum cone driver would put me a bit more at ease if it were in fact vented to the outside environment in a true IB configuration as he previously did. The drivers that were used in the IB kickpanels in his previous Civic were all paper cone IIRC. Still, I don't remember him saying that they experienced any damage or deterioration over the several years they were used this way.
i was waiting for purify midrange drivers, but was hoping for more changes compared to the midbass version. do we really need all that suspension when we have halve the excursion motor? for my dome type tweeters i can't use anything larger than 5", and a 6.5" that breaks up at 4khz and beam at 1.8khz and the Purifi website dont help much, it says that the Linear Xmax +/- 8.5 mm drivers has "uncompromised midrange performance". so why then make a dedicated midrange drivers with lower xmax?
Some people want a higher efficiency driver for midrange. And apparently the midrange specific driver actually had some different issues compared to the regular bass Maybe they'll make a smaller one later
For higher sensitivity. Low xmax might not offer much since its suround and VC design aren't utilized much. But then Purifi is running a business. Why leave a product off their catalogue? Given their reputation it will sell good.
I dont really understand the reasoning behind the high pass filter to mitigate one limiting factor of excursion thus allowing higher excursion. I understand that it limits the excursion and allowing you to go louder without hitting the limit but i dont think it would change the xmax limit? More make it a non-issue and move limiting factor to power compression or something? btw It can also often be a good idea to put a low pass filter below the tuning frequency if you let it run full range
you're right. What I was saying is that ultimately the suspension limiting factor isn't an issue for drivers that use a HPF. If the Le and Bl are good then that's what really matters through the midrange because the assymetry/nonlinearity of kms is really only a factor near Fs while Bl/Le have ramifications through the midrange in terms of IMD. I could have explained that better. That's on me.
Scanspeak Ellipticor , if you can afford to get one lol . An interesting concept with slightly higher second order HD trading for lower 3rd order HD. Pretty good all around, though the Purifi are still lower in total I think.
Love the thumbnail for the video Erin 😂 how would people use the 8" in a constant directivity design, with a waveguide tweeter, with waveguide that matches up in size to this woofer? Should be able reach lower than the ASR Directiva?
Pretty much. Though you'd generally want your HPF at least a Full Octave (doubling of frequency) above the Fs, and the Order of the HPF crossover (steep vs shallow) comes into play as well.
If you use EQ (which you should), Qts doesn’t matter at all as far as the final response is concerned. Better go for the strongest motor (which typically means low Qts) and beat it into submission with EQ/DSP. In this case, Xmax will be the limiting factor and therefore most important.
Lol as soon as you said $600 for the 8" woofer I shut the video off... Plenty of quality drivers out there that sound and work great and at higher efficiency at 10% to 20% of what a PURIFI cost.
Ive crossed my purifi ptt6.5 at 40hz /24 with 6db boost on eq at about 45hz and I can still play them really loud for 6.5s.. much louder than audio frog gb60, audio frog couldnt even touch 40hz unlike purifi's
It really depends on a few things but to me the most important aspect of that is if you will be running into excursion limits. I personally plan to use them in enclosures and still use a HPF.
The real deal about Purifi drivers are high excursion bass distortion which it really really excels. Midrange distortion hardly utilises its peculiar surround or VC design . It is mostly about the copper sleeve and cone break up.
True, but beaming/directivity start to become an issue up that high anyway. That's why transducer designers always try to push the breakup modes higher and well beyond the driver's intended LPF range (limited by the increased variance between the on-axis & off-axis response).
My 'break up' issue (sounds funny 🤣), is that it makes x-over design complicated, and in case of many midwoofers doesn't allow for 12dB/oct slopes. I very much try to make the metal cone's resonances inaudible, steep slopes such as 24/Oct + RLC trap, but some drivers have the main resonance stick out some 10-15dB. SB seem to have gotten their alu cone OK, 9-11kHz is a very good result. But the rumor is that the CRC sounds the best in SB17 series and like all of them not easy to implement. To me all SB midwoofers should get motor/suspension upgrade - the distortions are not really World class.
40 hz HP for a door speaker. 😂 If I was feeding it 15 RMS and didn't have a subwoofer maybe. 50 is pretty low and you're really inviting extra rattles. A DSP to get your subwoofer and front speakers in phase gets you that upfront bass. For me anyway!
A lot of us run IB kicks (no rattles) and IB subs in the rear and our rear subs have phenomenal output below 45hz but really struggle to get sound up front above 45hz, so we either ask more of our midbass drivers or look to a front sub as a last resort.
Erin, Thank you so much for all of the work you do. It's and education every time I watch your videos. However, I wish that I could completely understand everything you are talking about. I am learning, slowly learning. Someday I hope to build a kit speaker pair based on your recommendations. It would be great if you and Nick "TOIDS DIY AUDIO" would get together for a discussion on audio and/or team up on a speaker design. I'm looking everywhere for the best and budget affordable ATMOS "ceiling mounted" speaker. There has to be something better than in-ceiling speakers. Thanks again and all the very best to you and yours.
I appreciate the feedback and I 100% understand not fully understanding. It takes time. I try to explain things the best I can but in a time-limited video, it's not very easy.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for the reply. No mater what, you are doing a great service for all of us. Hearing new terms just means I have homework to do. Many thanks again.
Looks like the very expensive 6.5 driver begins to have higher distortion @100Hz and below. Therefore, most bookshelf speakers should be have a subwoofer setting of 100Hz when combining with a subwoofer to get clean response/high fidelity. what's the point to use 8 inch woofer. It is not good for mid range 1 khz to 3 khz, not good for a subwoofer any where below 60 to 70hz.
The distortion really only rises because the driver is tapering off in output. Adding a port/PR will easily bring the sub 100hz distortion back in line with the midrange and the design will probably be able to cross much lower. There is also no evidence that the 8-inch would be bad for midrange. It's below .1%THD, and much lower at high order distortion for the entire midrange band @96dB. It has a very linear response as well. What about that indicates poor midrange capability?
@@noahnovotny2100 Agreed. The only real factor that you would want to consider if using this 8" as a midwoofer+midrange is the LPF frequency & slope due to beaming and managing directivity, which Erin covered in the review. This 8" Purifi driver could make for an amazing 2-way design that would outperform many competitors. Only one other drawback I see would be the vertical off-axis response and lobing due to the physically wide center-to-center spacing of the LF & HF drive units.
Do you have anything to back that up with? You haven’t had the opportunity to hear these because they aren’t publicly available yet, so your rationale can only be based on data. Seas doesn’t provide linear excursion via the IEC standard I use so that is not apples to apples. 😞
Ain't no way I'm using 8" drivers costing several hundred dollars in a car audio environment, LOL. Any gains from the reduced distortion from those drivers will be completely lost in the background noise of your typical car....
Not true. I've *ALWAYS* experienced improved SQ in any of my vehicle's audio systems when moving from a "good" speaker drive unit to a "better" drive unit, whether it be a subwoofer, midwoofer, midrange, or tweeter (as long as they were implemented properly). Maybe it's true if you drive a 20+ year old rust bucket pickup or Pinto, or a lifted 4x4 with huge noisy tires & exhaust. :p
@@bbfoto7248 Even in a very good new vehicle the noise floor is very high (compared to your typical home environment, unless perhaps you have young children or noisy pets, LOL). Just record the background noise when driving a vehicle and run it through REW to see what I mean. Not to mention a car door is not a good enclosure anyway. Now, maybe with EVs in the mix, that position might change a little, but that remains to be seen. But I'd never spend more than a few hundred $$$ total on drivers to go in a car's doors. I'd put that money into a decent DSP instead and more powerful amplifiers to get above that noise floor. Oh, wait, I already did that.... :-).
@@Grommet2007 Well, I've been into home, car, and studio audio for several decades, and am a musician with a home recording studio. Despite the background noise in a "relatively quiet" modern vehicle, you can still easily perceive a difference in quality between mediocre drivers and better performing drivers, all other things being equal. As an example, in one of my cars I upgraded the tweeters from the already excellent *Gladen Aerospace 20* silk dome 3/4" tweeters (see Erin's website for a review) to a set of recently released and larger Beryllium dome tweeters that had independent measurements on par with the improvements shown in these Purifi drivers. I debated the switch, partly for the same reasons you cite, and because I had specifically chosen the Aerospace 20 tweeters for their TINY form factor, which allowed me to maintain a "stealth" OEM look in the vehicle. But I'm definitely glad that I decided to go to the expense and trouble to install the new beryllium tweeters, because even while driving on the highway, the difference in SQ is CLEARLY evident. FYI, the tweeters are the BlieSMa T25B-6. And BTW, I happen to also use the Purifi PTT6.5 drivers in my well-deadened & treated OEM front door speaker locations, which were also a SIGNIFICANT upgrade in SQ to the previous well-regarded 6.5" midwoofers I was using. ;) I agree with you to a certain degree, though. In talking to Natan Budiono (look him up), even the engineers for the automaker's OEM audio systems in vehicles have needed to request better engineering from the NVH division in order to improve speech & overall audio intelligibility due to the advent of OEM systems implementing hands free Bluetooth call audio and NAV systems with audible prompts. Mercedes and other upper tier automakers have even resorted to using actual Double-Pane windshield and side window glass that is filled with Argon or other inert gas between the separated panes in order to reduce the wind and road noise. And others have used a dual layer firewall with damping material between the layers. This, in turn, has forced automakers to also improve the quality of the OEM stereo system and Speakers, because the poor audio quality was even more apparent. +2 for your argument. ;) Once you have optimized the installation, and have properly setup and tuned the vehicle's audio system using a capable DSP and amplifiers (seems as if you have done this), better speakers can and will make a difference, otherwise NO ONE EVER would waste any money whatsoever to upgrade from their OEM stock stereo system. It seems to me that aftermarket car audio retail install shops and Online retailers such as Crutchfield are alive and well, and are actually thriving. They certainly wouldn't be if better speakers did not make a difference. I really don't believe that you can make a blanket statement and say, "at a certain level or point, you will not be able to distinguish the differences in using such expensive speakers in a moving vehicle". Especially when the improvements in performance are so great compared to the majority of the competition, as with these Purifi drivers. In addition, there are simply too many other variables within the particular system, and with the vehicle itself, to make that determination. Hopefully, a good aftermarket car audio installation will also include at least some form of vibration and acoustical noise damping products, which can greatly reduce the mid & high frequency noise in the vehicle cabin if implemented properly. You obviously can't do much to tame the lower frequency rumble and drone of engine, road & tire, or exhaust noise, other than try to overcome it with amplification AND better drivers that provide additional *undistorted* SPL at higher levels, which this 8" Purifi driver does. ;) But IME, just the reduction of the mid & upper frequency background noise alone goes a long way to improve intelligibility of vocals and musical details. A simple SPL meter test of the noise of a "Before & After" Sound Deadening Treatment test will not show much of a delta, as it is the lower frequencies that are driving the averaged or "weighted" SPL meter. But a full range before & after recording in a vehicle cabin will clearly show the difference in overall noise levels when analyzed in Audacity, REW, or another DAW or spectrum analyzer plugin. And for many of us, our vehicles are the ONLY place where we can sit undisturbed and listen to our favorite music at any volume level we desire without disturbing the family or neighbors at home. So many of us choose to buy and use the best performing speakers and other car audio related equipment that we can afford in order to maximize our enjoyment. :) Different strokes for different folks...or horses for courses. :-P
Not worth it.. purifi it is a heavily profit focused company...in today's word you have a ton of good drivers from the ton of good firms with even better results for the fraction of the price.
Erin, thank you for contextualizing the data with how these drivers will be employed in the real world. Another fantastic review!!
This video is awesome in the way you're delivering & breaking down the information in layman's terms. Thank you.
The drivers themselves seem fantastic as well. They will be used in some fashion in one of my systems. 👌🏼👌🏼
Thanks
Oh, wow! Thanks for the generous donation!
@@ErinsAudioCorner well, only another 40,000 or so donations and you'll be break even on the Klippel 😀
FWIW, I'm currently crossing over the door speakers in my car at 160(!) Hz. Cabin gain fills in a bit of what's missing below there and then the subwoofer takes over. The high x-over point is to reduce distortion at higher volumes, caused by both the drivers and all the rattling crap in the doors....
I've built a 2.5 way MTMM with Purifi woofers and BlieSMa T25B tweeters. To me, they're one of the very best speakers I've ever heard. If you'd like to know more let me know.
Yes please! I'm thinking about building precisely this combination
I would like to join your community on this build
Teach me your ways :)
Do you have plans?
I’d like to know more
Thanks!
Oh, thank you for the generous donation!
I think you touched on every t/s parameter in this video and you said them as if you were talking about what you had for lunch. That's scary and awesome at the same time.
Well, definitely not every one of them. I've been working on trying to have someone come on and explain the parameters fully, because there's a LOT I still don't understand about them.
@@ErinsAudioCorner you're the best bro! I'm glad I get to work with you.
Thank you Erin!
Best video yet. Those old Speaker Builder mag subscriptions paid off!
Speaker Builder was the best... still have all of them.
@@FOH3663 I have them all too.
Amazing info and the amazing stuff regarding the art of tuning
Great tests, thanks. Did you have the opportunity to test the SB Acoustics SATORI MW16TX-8 midrange speaker? What is the distortion compared to PTT8.0X0z-NAB-02? Thanks.
its a cool looking woofer surround , but in slow-motion you can still see the weird uneven buckling of the woofer as it drives. The future will be the res-core designs when they get efficient enough. pure control and stability with piston support the whole length of the woofers at least for bass and lower woofers, AMT and other techs will be taking over midrange.
Hi Erin, First up I love these things the more that I listen to them, levels of clarity better than anything I have heard to date.
I noticed that in the two reviews of these Purify 6.5 inch drivers you keep mentioning offhand that the drivers should be high-passed. But you never articulated why? Here are my thoughts about the drivers. I purchased two of the 8 ohm versions and placed them directly in my HEDD V1 type 20s (no internal dsp), swapping out the original 6.5 inch drivers. I have a highly resolving system and highly treated nearfield studio. What I do agree with is in the midrange, dam these things are wickedly accurate. A whole other level to any driver I have heard before. But a couple of things. 1) The curve of course shows not much bass at all. Yet the prob is the bass down there is really one-note. Even mid-bass is pretty sketchy. Midrange awesome, go lower and.... 2) So the drivers are pitched as a high excursion driver. OK, but high excursion is mostly useful with bass.
So here is the thing that I cringe to say because this is a jewel of a driver. Ready for it? At high excursion, meaning loud playing mid-bass & bass, Those surrounds stop doing their delicate low distortion from the sound thing. And .....they literally flop back and forth. Not so much in and out, but a distinct back and forth. When you move the driver by hand at high excursions you can see it. And that flopping back and forth of the surround. Makes a distinct very audible sound. It sounds like rubber flopping back and forth at high speed. Moving your ear around close to the driver, it is the surrounds. So this is really easy to control by either backing off on volume, thus less excursion. Or alternatively by high passing so that long excursion frequencies cannot find their way to the driver.
I think that this did not show up in your tests, because the volume and duration of your test tone sweep would not show it. If you placed the driver in a real box and played music through it loud you definitely will hear it.
My pass is incredible drivers, for midrange, incredible, and the surrounds work perfect in that range. But don't get sold on the long excursion part of the pitch.
I do plan to get a pair of the Purify 8 inch aluminum coned drivers when they are available in December. Looking forward to them for all they look like they can do. Just hoping I don't get bit by the long throw causing the surrounds to flop back and forth thing. Because I do want them to perform and hit with low-distortion as a woofer.
8" drivers generally have more distortion in the midrange than 5" counterparts. I think we can agree that this 8" is an achievement. It has a lot less 3rd order distortion in Purifi's 90dB plots and quite similarly in your 96dB data. We can clearly see that if not for some (very low) suspension asymetry, this would be a new level of accuracy at least in publicly known drivers. Seriously, as far as midrange goes, we're in electrostatic territory.
Thats because most 8 inch doesn't have copper sleeve in air gap. They have thick aluminum ring in magnet inner gap which is better for low bass distortiin and IMD.
Purifi owes you a commission.😉 Excellent summation on great drivers.
LOL, Love the video's thumbnail, mate! Don't know how I missed this video. Have been eagerly awaiting the review and release of this 8" driver since Lars first mentioned that it was in development several years ago. She's a Beaut, Clark!!!
Thanks again for the massive time and effort in testing and producing the website reviews & YT videos for all of these drivers!
Still using the PTT6.5 in the car with stellar results, but these 8" drivers are SO TEMPTING! :-P
Of course, I'm "all in" to see how you'd implement them in the Civic. ;-) DOOOO IT!
Here is my setup which uses the original 6.5" Purifi for the 1200-450Hz range on a PA system: th-cam.com/video/vB1oQhc-5Po/w-d-xo.html
I might have gone with the 8" but it was years late in coming.
Hats off to Lars & Co for getting it out there finally and for producing such great drivers!
I almost wish these came out a few months ago when I was building a pair of 8 inch, 2 way monitors. I ended up using the FaitalPro 8pr200, which are excellent drivers, but these new purifi drivers are pretty sweet. I wonder how the two would compare on the Klippel since the FaitalPro also has a stated xmax of 8.15mm, and is a little higher sensitivity. Obviously, the purifi is able to play lower, but as you said, most people should be crossing these with a subwoofer anyway. It would be interesting to see what 3x the price actually gets you in real-world use. Lower distortion? How much lower? Greater linearity? Maybe a better question is "what might I be missing by saving 3x the money?"
Oh well, I am still delighted when I listen to my speakers, and that is the most important thing I suppose. Excellent review, as always. I hope to see more drive units in the future.
I think you made the right choice but only one way to find out - Erin…?
I just built a two way with faitalPRO 8” 8fe200 and they’re fantastic.
i doubt the xmax rated by Faital can be compared to the purifi. Faital pro uses the formula for Xmax ( voice coil length - air gap )/2 + air gap/ 3 . Air gap in your driver is most likely 8mm. So subtract 2.7 mm which leaves 5.5mm
@@super-z8943 maybe, but a lot of the faital stuff that audioxpress and others measure usually meets their spec, at least in motor strength and inductance. Similar to the purifi, they sometimes fail to meet compliance spec.
Another question would be if that crazy excursion capability is really necessary. Even at full power I don’t think either of the drivers would actually be using 8mm, or even 5.5 for that matter. That is with a proper high pass of course. I suppose they would be more likely to remain in the flat part of the Bl curve if the driver had some headroom though.
@@noahnovotny2100 With high pass, its a different consideration. For 2 way without sub it would matter. But then pro drivers have stiffer compliances and hence not much bass, mostly.
These and the Scanspeak Illuminator are the best 7" and 8" woofers (almost in the world pretty much or almost) but i find them to be interesting to compare the differences. I suspect these can handle more power since the Scans are underhung..
Criticism intended to be constructive, love what you do so not dumping on you!
I know you don't consider non-linear distortion particularly important, but many of us do. To only discuss the LF point where THD rises above 1% is rather missing the point of a dedicated midrange driver - in that case you'd simply use a mid-bass. Indeed, reduced non-linear distortion is the entire reason for the 'underhung' voice coil design of the 'M' version.
If reviewing a mid-range driver IMHO the midrange (~500Hz-5KHz) distortion levels and spectrum (relative levels of 2nd, 3rd, 4th) really deserve more screen time.
While THD is only an indicator of the broader heading of non-linear distortion it is the measure that has been used the longest and therefore makes for easiest comparison with other drivers.
Fair. "Screen Time"... the data is on my site. I choose to focus on the points that I feel are most important to watchers. The vast majority are more concerned with bandwidth application so I leave the HD deep-dives for those who want to go to my site and look at the data. 👍
@@ErinsAudioCorner I appreciate the measurements are on your site and that's really helpful. I think you have said before the videos are largely to help beginners get an understanding of what the data means and in that respect you do an amazing job. In this case the mid-band distortion is almost -10dB lower (!) than many other drivers so it seemed worthy of note. I like that you discussed this a little bit in the KEF Reference 1 review.
Great review as always; I’m thinking about using either purifi or the SB satori textreme woofers in a 2way. Any plan to review some from that particular line of SB woofers in the future?
Great video!
I love me some talk about Small and Large parameters.
Hi Erin! I read on your site you were going to review a diy bookshelf using some of these woofers, did that ever happen? Do you have a link to it? Thank you
Thanks for this Erin. Your review is what led me to buying my current mids...the w800neos. I may head down to Al's next get together so hopefully you will be there and I can pick your brain (if gas isn't $8 a gallon).
These are certainly on my radar.....
I wanna make a FrankenKef with the 8s
Is the advantage of these drivers only when cone excursion is past a certain point (driven hard)?
..also, .. I like the video quality in this.. using the depth of feild to focus on you looks good. lighting seems better too.
It must be the Purifi effect; he's lowering visual distortion and making things look better
@@RennieAsh ... Progress in the right direction from what I see
Incredible review. Buchardt is using the Purifi in the 6.5. I have to think that the 8 inch version would be DYI perfection in a 14 by 25 foot room
Hey Erin, have you tested Epique E180HE-44 7" DVC MMAG Extended Range Subwoofer 4 Ohm per Coil and E150HE-44 5.5” DVC MMAG Midrange 4 Ohm
I’m also kind of curious, I have both of them sitting on a shelf. A rep from Parts Express said they were comparable to the Purifi’s, but at less than 1/3 of the price, it’s hard to imagine
Thanks for the advice on small mid-woofers! I'm now using 18wu/8741T00 as mid-woofer and was wondering if it already can go to 35Hz, what's the necessity to place a larger size woofer.
Do you have any experience on woofer from faital pro? Planning to add another pair of woofer/sub. Theirs seems to be great option as well.
Erin,
Does it benefit your channel if I let the pre-view commercials play through before watching your videos instead of skipping the ad?
Honestly, I don’t know.
Yes it does other youtubers state this.
Thanks for this. Still the best in Objective reviews. I have to wonder what, if any, are the tradeoffs on the midrange surround? I.E. - preventing cone deformation vs. edge diffraction as sound waves hit those really rough edges of the surround? Maybe the benefits outweigh the losses, but I do wonder how some of that unusual diffraction might affect imaging and soundstage presentation? Just thinking out loud and putting it out there as a point of consideration...
Thank you. I think the surround diffraction matters when you are talking about drivers placed nearby (or if this were a coaxial and the surround was part of the waveguide).
I might not be an issue .. because those knobbly ridges would act like sound absorbers ....
Is not edge diffraction more relevant at frequencies above what a rational cutoff would be for this 8" (around 1khz-1.5khz at most)? If it were me I'd be using a large waveguide or oblate spheroid horn that offered sufficient coupling down to that range or below, and then cross-over to a sub or large woofer acting as a sub in the main cabinets, with at least a 1st order at 200hz+ or greater for low to moderate listening levels, or 12db/octave or greater at 200hz for high listening levels. I'd want the woofer doing virtually all the work up to 100hz and most of the work to 150hz. But my ideal design with these would be a 3-way with the woofer basically acting as a sub but with higher than average frequency extension upwards, using something like a high end B&C pro 15", not a true "sub", but a proper implementation could still easily give you 30hz or even 20-25hz in the right design, with DSP EQ. I prefer a simple 2 channel setup which basically gives you the benefits of having "2 subs" in essence, for better bass distribution. You could amp the woofers separately if desired depending on your power amp and what you're into, you could even throw some servos in there if you gave them their own amps, though I don't find that necessary. Right now I have some 15" jbl 2225h's as my mains woofers and they play solid down to 30hz in my implementation, but not below that. But they have to play beyond their ideal range in the 1k-1.5k region. I want to make a similar design where the pro 15"s can stop at say 500-800hz or less, but for that I need a waveguide/OS horn that can play to 500-800hz and those are large and expensive unless I make it myself. There would be a super tweeter on top as my current speakers have... my non-waveguide/os horns that I have now are starting at 1k-1.5k peaking at 2k (rolloff might start there) and playing through to 8-9k ish where the ribbon tweeter takes over... but I want to expand the horns role to do at least 800hz and then drop out earlier too, maybe 5-8khz, where a tweeter can get the last 1-2 octaves. Then the drivers can all be in a more ideal range and I can get more midrange/lower-midrange detail vs the 15"s, though they do better than you might imagine... consider the fact that at most reasonable listening levels, the 15"s are barely moving from their bass duty, so the mids are not colored or distorted to a significant or problematic degree. Only when I crank it... and even then, with only 100-150 ultra clean watts on tap, I'm still not pushing x-max. The biggest weakness of my current speakers is that old rectangular horn design. I use a multiband DSP EQ to the best effect that I can, but there are things you can't fix.
My next design will definitely have 15"s, only question is do I use another smaller midbass driver to handle ~150-200hz up to ~1khz and then go horn/waveguide above that, or get my horn/waveguide to meet up with the 15" at ~800hz or less and put a super tweeter on top. Many compression drivers could hit 16k on their own and I'd be satisfied with that I can't hear higher than that anyway, but they do get beamy in that last octave. I'm primarily concerned with the sweet spot. I guess I could go 4-way and have the best of all worlds... 15", then midbass, then CD horn/waveguide, then super tweeter. That's some serious money though. Check out Geddes NS-15 speakers ("Summa") for the OS horn inspiration. We're talking like around a 15" round mouth opening, but this is a true horn not just a waveguide, it's deep, with a 2" throat compression driver. Talk about sensitivity!!! You'd have to pad it to the woofer but even then, good pro 15"s from B&C, jbl, or faitalpro etc., can reach ~100db sensitivity, while the compression drivers can reach another 8+ db above that. With a foam plug (like the geddes design) even less padding would likely be required.
What are your thoughts compared to the
Solen Hi Vi transducers
Hello Erin, I have a question about a disaster with a pair of paridigm studio 100’s v5. I failed to shut down my system when I left home and somehow in the process of being gone my Spotify account played several hours of Marcus King at full volume. It messed up quite a bit of equipment but I still have the tweeters and white aluminum mids in the 100’s and the three 7” bass drivers in each are toast. I can’t get the specs on them from paradigm and I wondered if you might have a 19:52 suggestion through your knowledge, on replacement drivers? I really like these purifies and would probably be making crossover changes to fit new design better. Thanks for any help or suggestions on were to turn. Paradigm just wants to sell me new speakers
Any chance of doing a piece on Purify's 10' driver?
Have you discovered any good speaker plans for these drivers?
Try the 8", infinite baffle in the kicks to avoid any dips, cut firewall.
I am VERY close to scrapping the WM8 in the kicks idea for these instead. It's just going to be a bas***d to fit a 4in deep driver in the drivers side next to the clutch pedal.
But I may do exactly this =)
@jprieto727
There will still be SOME nulls & peaks even in 95% of kickpanel locations, even IB. But those peaks & nulls might just be less severe and/or shifted to a different frequency that is less of an issue.
Erin has done this in his previous Honda Civic daily driver SQ car, albeit with different drivers with excellent results. I'll be curious to see how he intends to implement the 8" Purifi drivers in his new Civic, IF he decides to give them a try.
This Purifi driver being an aluminum cone driver would put me a bit more at ease if it were in fact vented to the outside environment in a true IB configuration as he previously did.
The drivers that were used in the IB kickpanels in his previous Civic were all paper cone IIRC. Still, I don't remember him saying that they experienced any damage or deterioration over the several years they were used this way.
Top class review 👍
Thanks 👍
I rarely comment, but thank you for the very informative video. You're very good at what you do. 😁
Thanks!
OH HELL YA!! .... =D !!! ... Pur-ly Magic.
Would love to get your opinion on a budget DIY MTM and would like to see a full build.
i was waiting for purify midrange drivers, but was hoping for more changes compared to the midbass version. do we really need all that suspension when we have halve the excursion motor? for my dome type tweeters i can't use anything larger than 5", and a 6.5" that breaks up at 4khz and beam at 1.8khz
and the Purifi website dont help much, it says that the Linear Xmax +/- 8.5 mm drivers has "uncompromised midrange performance". so why then make a dedicated midrange drivers with lower xmax?
Some people want a higher efficiency driver for midrange. And apparently the midrange specific driver actually had some different issues compared to the regular bass
Maybe they'll make a smaller one later
For higher sensitivity. Low xmax might not offer much since its suround and VC design aren't utilized much. But then Purifi is running a business. Why leave a product off their catalogue? Given their reputation it will sell good.
a grounds-up developed dedicaded mid in the 4-5" size will come. great things take time of course. cheers Lars@purifi
I dont really understand the reasoning behind the high pass filter to mitigate one limiting factor of excursion thus allowing higher excursion. I understand that it limits the excursion and allowing you to go louder without hitting the limit but i dont think it would change the xmax limit? More make it a non-issue and move limiting factor to power compression or something?
btw It can also often be a good idea to put a low pass filter below the tuning frequency if you let it run full range
you're right. What I was saying is that ultimately the suspension limiting factor isn't an issue for drivers that use a HPF. If the Le and Bl are good then that's what really matters through the midrange because the assymetry/nonlinearity of kms is really only a factor near Fs while Bl/Le have ramifications through the midrange in terms of IMD. I could have explained that better. That's on me.
@@ErinsAudioCorner ok that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification :)
Hello how much time you tested
Scanspeak Ellipticor , if you can afford to get one lol . An interesting concept with slightly higher second order HD trading for lower 3rd order HD. Pretty good all around, though the Purifi are still lower in total I think.
Distortion for both are already really really low. At this point I doubt you should be looking at THD distortion anymore.
I actually do indeed have a 80hz pull in my truck, you wizard you.
MB are crossed at 80hz, maybe I'll try 100hz and let the sub come up more
Review dayton audio Epique he180-44 7” subwoofer? Thanks !!
Love the thumbnail for the video Erin 😂 how would people use the 8" in a constant directivity design, with a waveguide tweeter, with waveguide that matches up in size to this woofer? Should be able reach lower than the ASR Directiva?
wow.... great stuff thanks .
Glad you enjoyed it
Ever tried Seas 10 inch excel?
So you are saying if I have a woofer with an fs of say 16hz and I cross it over at day 25hz, qts doesn't matter? IB of course
Pretty much. Though you'd generally want your HPF at least a Full Octave (doubling of frequency) above the Fs, and the Order of the HPF crossover (steep vs shallow) comes into play as well.
@@bbfoto7248 that's interesting I never thought of that.
If you use EQ (which you should), Qts doesn’t matter at all as far as the final response is concerned. Better go for the strongest motor (which typically means low Qts) and beat it into submission with EQ/DSP. In this case, Xmax will be the limiting factor and therefore most important.
Lol as soon as you said $600 for the 8" woofer I shut the video off... Plenty of quality drivers out there that sound and work great and at higher efficiency at 10% to 20% of what a PURIFI cost.
Ive crossed my purifi ptt6.5 at 40hz /24 with 6db boost on eq at about 45hz and I can still play them really loud for 6.5s.. much louder than audio frog gb60, audio frog couldnt even touch 40hz unlike purifi's
You're really growing into an awesome content creator!
Invest in some sun screen though ;)
Thanks for the tip!
Is there a 10" version coming out? Looking for a 10" midbass/woofer that has a high qts to be mounted in doors.
Look at the Stereo Integrity BM-11, is a Sub but have a FR up to 800Hz
On their website, a 10" is coming. Not available yet.
Works with car audio?
You should build the SPK5 kit and see what you think
That 8" is screaming to be in a low distortion 3 way monitor.
Nice content. Erin, for a midbass, would you consider a sealed box as a suitable replacement for a highpass component filter? Thanks!
It really depends on a few things but to me the most important aspect of that is if you will be running into excursion limits. I personally plan to use them in enclosures and still use a HPF.
hello Erin
Wasn't their super expensive Kii speaker exposed as having these relatively cheap Seas tweeters?
THD @96dB of the paper midrange doesn't look better than a $70 SB17NBAC35 as measured by Audioexcite (95dB) and HifiCompass.
Would be great to compare those to see if there's any advantage to to Purifi driver.
The real deal about Purifi drivers are high excursion bass distortion which it really really excels. Midrange distortion hardly utilises its peculiar surround or VC design . It is mostly about the copper sleeve and cone break up.
Erin measured the 17CAC35-4 version - I wish the bass was better, but the mids dist are great.
erin looking zesty in that thumbnail lol
Ah, the damn cone break ups 😤, life would be almost wonderful
True, but beaming/directivity start to become an issue up that high anyway. That's why transducer designers always try to push the breakup modes higher and well beyond the driver's intended LPF range (limited by the increased variance between the on-axis & off-axis response).
My 'break up' issue (sounds funny 🤣), is that it makes x-over design complicated, and in case of many midwoofers doesn't allow for 12dB/oct slopes. I very much try to make the metal cone's resonances inaudible, steep slopes such as 24/Oct + RLC trap, but some drivers have the main resonance stick out some 10-15dB. SB seem to have gotten their alu cone OK, 9-11kHz is a very good result. But the rumor is that the CRC sounds the best in SB17 series and like all of them not easy to implement. To me all SB midwoofers should get motor/suspension upgrade - the distortions are not really World class.
Erin get some bryston speakers and let us know what u think...
40 hz HP for a door speaker. 😂 If I was feeding it 15 RMS and didn't have a subwoofer maybe. 50 is pretty low and you're really inviting extra rattles. A DSP to get your subwoofer and front speakers in phase gets you that upfront bass. For me anyway!
Personally my stock 6.5 speakers barely make any bass below 55 ish hz, so I cross them much higher. I do have a sub so no problem
I think I typically settled on a 12 db slope at 80 or 90 hz.
A lot of us run IB kicks (no rattles) and IB subs in the rear and our rear subs have phenomenal output below 45hz but really struggle to get sound up front above 45hz, so we either ask more of our midbass drivers or look to a front sub as a last resort.
10:04
Erin, Thank you so much for all of the work you do. It's and education every time I watch your videos. However, I wish that I could completely understand everything you are talking about. I am learning, slowly learning. Someday I hope to build a kit speaker pair based on your recommendations. It would be great if you and Nick "TOIDS DIY AUDIO" would get together for a discussion on audio and/or team up on a speaker design. I'm looking everywhere for the best and budget affordable ATMOS "ceiling mounted" speaker. There has to be something better than in-ceiling speakers. Thanks again and all the very best to you and yours.
I appreciate the feedback and I 100% understand not fully understanding. It takes time. I try to explain things the best I can but in a time-limited video, it's not very easy.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for the reply. No mater what, you are doing a great service for all of us. Hearing new terms just means I have homework to do. Many thanks again.
Do Purifi woofers punch hard in chest?
Depends on how hard they are thrown at you and from how far away. Much like SPL at x distance. 😀
Ported in the doors do it
I think I'll go buy some pants with holes in the store
Looks like the very expensive 6.5 driver begins to have higher distortion @100Hz and below. Therefore, most bookshelf speakers should be have a subwoofer setting of 100Hz when combining with a subwoofer to get clean response/high fidelity.
what's the point to use 8 inch woofer. It is not good for mid range 1 khz to 3 khz, not good for a subwoofer any where below 60 to 70hz.
You just described almost every 6.5" driver...
The distortion really only rises because the driver is tapering off in output. Adding a port/PR will easily bring the sub 100hz distortion back in line with the midrange and the design will probably be able to cross much lower.
There is also no evidence that the 8-inch would be bad for midrange. It's below .1%THD, and much lower at high order distortion for the entire midrange band @96dB. It has a very linear response as well. What about that indicates poor midrange capability?
@@noahnovotny2100
Agreed. The only real factor that you would want to consider if using this 8" as a midwoofer+midrange is the LPF frequency & slope due to beaming and managing directivity, which Erin covered in the review.
This 8" Purifi driver could make for an amazing 2-way design that would outperform many competitors. Only one other drawback I see would be the vertical off-axis response and lobing due to the physically wide center-to-center spacing of the LF & HF drive units.
Just a quick perusal indicated that their niche is expensive, low efficiency, low Qts drivers of moderate size.
I think The Seas 8inch aluminium woofer is better ....
Do you have anything to back that up with? You haven’t had the opportunity to hear these because they aren’t publicly available yet, so your rationale can only be based on data. Seas doesn’t provide linear excursion via the IEC standard I use so that is not apples to apples. 😞
Ain't no way I'm using 8" drivers costing several hundred dollars in a car audio environment, LOL. Any gains from the reduced distortion from those drivers will be completely lost in the background noise of your typical car....
Not true. I've *ALWAYS* experienced improved SQ in any of my vehicle's audio systems when moving from a "good" speaker drive unit to a "better" drive unit, whether it be a subwoofer, midwoofer, midrange, or tweeter (as long as they were implemented properly). Maybe it's true if you drive a 20+ year old rust bucket pickup or Pinto, or a lifted 4x4 with huge noisy tires & exhaust. :p
@@bbfoto7248 Even in a very good new vehicle the noise floor is very high (compared to your typical home environment, unless perhaps you have young children or noisy pets, LOL). Just record the background noise when driving a vehicle and run it through REW to see what I mean. Not to mention a car door is not a good enclosure anyway. Now, maybe with EVs in the mix, that position might change a little, but that remains to be seen. But I'd never spend more than a few hundred $$$ total on drivers to go in a car's doors. I'd put that money into a decent DSP instead and more powerful amplifiers to get above that noise floor. Oh, wait, I already did that.... :-).
@@Grommet2007
Well, I've been into home, car, and studio audio for several decades, and am a musician with a home recording studio.
Despite the background noise in a "relatively quiet" modern vehicle, you can still easily perceive a difference in quality between mediocre drivers and better performing drivers, all other things being equal.
As an example, in one of my cars I upgraded the tweeters from the already excellent *Gladen Aerospace 20* silk dome 3/4" tweeters (see Erin's website for a review) to a set of recently released and larger Beryllium dome tweeters that had independent measurements on par with the improvements shown in these Purifi drivers.
I debated the switch, partly for the same reasons you cite, and because I had specifically chosen the Aerospace 20 tweeters for their TINY form factor, which allowed me to maintain a "stealth" OEM look in the vehicle.
But I'm definitely glad that I decided to go to the expense and trouble to install the new beryllium tweeters, because even while driving on the highway, the difference in SQ is CLEARLY evident. FYI, the tweeters are the BlieSMa T25B-6. And BTW, I happen to also use the Purifi PTT6.5 drivers in my well-deadened & treated OEM front door speaker locations, which were also a SIGNIFICANT upgrade in SQ to the previous well-regarded 6.5" midwoofers I was using. ;)
I agree with you to a certain degree, though. In talking to Natan Budiono (look him up), even the engineers for the automaker's OEM audio systems in vehicles have needed to request better engineering from the NVH division in order to improve speech & overall audio intelligibility due to the advent of OEM systems implementing hands free Bluetooth call audio and NAV systems with audible prompts.
Mercedes and other upper tier automakers have even resorted to using actual Double-Pane windshield and side window glass that is filled with Argon or other inert gas between the separated panes in order to reduce the wind and road noise. And others have used a dual layer firewall with damping material between the layers.
This, in turn, has forced automakers to also improve the quality of the OEM stereo system and Speakers, because the poor audio quality was even more apparent. +2 for your argument. ;)
Once you have optimized the installation, and have properly setup and tuned the vehicle's audio system using a capable DSP and amplifiers (seems as if you have done this), better speakers can and will make a difference, otherwise NO ONE EVER would waste any money whatsoever to upgrade from their OEM stock stereo system.
It seems to me that aftermarket car audio retail install shops and Online retailers such as Crutchfield are alive and well, and are actually thriving. They certainly wouldn't be if better speakers did not make a difference.
I really don't believe that you can make a blanket statement and say, "at a certain level or point, you will not be able to distinguish the differences in using such expensive speakers in a moving vehicle". Especially when the improvements in performance are so great compared to the majority of the competition, as with these Purifi drivers. In addition, there are simply too many other variables within the particular system, and with the vehicle itself, to make that determination.
Hopefully, a good aftermarket car audio installation will also include at least some form of vibration and acoustical noise damping products, which can greatly reduce the mid & high frequency noise in the vehicle cabin if implemented properly.
You obviously can't do much to tame the lower frequency rumble and drone of engine, road & tire, or exhaust noise, other than try to overcome it with amplification AND better drivers that provide additional *undistorted* SPL at higher levels, which this 8" Purifi driver does. ;) But IME, just the reduction of the mid & upper frequency background noise alone goes a long way to improve intelligibility of vocals and musical details.
A simple SPL meter test of the noise of a "Before & After" Sound Deadening Treatment test will not show much of a delta, as it is the lower frequencies that are driving the averaged or "weighted" SPL meter. But a full range before & after recording in a vehicle cabin will clearly show the difference in overall noise levels when analyzed in Audacity, REW, or another DAW or spectrum analyzer plugin.
And for many of us, our vehicles are the ONLY place where we can sit undisturbed and listen to our favorite music at any volume level we desire without disturbing the family or neighbors at home. So many of us choose to buy and use the best performing speakers and other car audio related equipment that we can afford in order to maximize our enjoyment. :) Different strokes for different folks...or horses for courses. :-P
At about 17 minutes you cough and say "covid." Best wishes Erin, hope your ok.
Well, thank you.
Not worth it.. purifi it is a heavily profit focused company...in today's word you have a ton of good drivers from the ton of good firms with even better results for the fraction of the price.
Such as?