I disagree about the end. Violet definitly knows he's a venin, but she's choosing to trust and help him, which was the point of the entire second book, for her to learn that she can trust him no matter what. She said her love is not fickle and she's sticking by it. I'm guessing her brain is already working overtime on finding a cure
Agreed. But I don’t think Naolin is alive anymore. I can’t figure out how Tairn could bond Violet if he were? Maybe I’m missing something and am wrong?? :)
@@kaytlynhonore1933Xaden says that he doesn’t feel the bond to Saegyl anymore in his chapter so they probably lose the connection once they become a Venin
Okay but hear me out, about the ending and why I believe violet is acting uncharacteristically… she felt the power beneath the ground too, she even began reaching for it right before she was tackled. She was in the same position Xaden was, they both believed and felt the other one dying and felt as though they had no choice but to reach for the well of power to turn venin. So my belief or theory is that she either forgives him because she was about to do the same. She says “I finally understand why someone would turn to stealing magic”.
Yes! I love this. I feel like the major character development she experienced in this book, as seen in her reaction to X's second signet, is her "my love is not fragile" deceleration. She works with him to overcome obstacles, she doesn't run away, which totally explains why she's still with him in his POV chapter. (I will happily take egg on my face if it turns out she doesn't know lol)
I think her mom realized what violet was about to do and that's why she kicked her over. And I think she knows because she's venin herself and channeled the earth to save both of them while she was pregnant with violet.
Last thought in regards to Cat...I LOVED that Violet was like "im not gonna fight you over a man" which is different than most other jealous ex tropes.
i think violet’s second signet is absolutely going to be the answer to curing xaden, andarna specifically chose violet because she would be the answer to the venin problem. the issue is when will she get the signet and will it be too late for xaden
And if they want to be extra dramatic it will be something like resurrection...so, Xaden might be killed by Violet and then after we all cried our heart out...the second signet will manifest.
I think we will learn more about Violet’s dad in book 3. Violet will begin sorting through her mother’s belongings and will discover some of his research or perhaps her mother’s journal?
1:08:50 I would love to see Cat with Aaric! it would be cool if they got together and she didn’t know that he was an heir, but their union could create a powerful treaty for both countries
Omg listening to you guys made me realize something. What if Naolin siphoned Tairn, turned venin and tried to take all of Tairn's power and that's what almost killed Tairn 😱
Ooo I love this and maybe that's why he wouldn't bond for so many years because he needed a rider that would 100% put dragons lives above themselves. Someone with honor.
And I am anxious about what the Venin powers might imply cause the one fighting Xaden predicted his book ending and a similar scene was presented for Violet in this book.
I did enjoy this book, but it felt like it needed another round or two of edits to clean it up, not as polished as Fourth Wing to me. I think they didn’t want to compete with the next Sarah J Maas book which comes out in January.
I feel like violets second signet has to do with talking to the dead or something similar to what resurrection could be and that she will be able to talk to her mom and dad like she was able to talk to Liam. I don’t think he was a hallucination
Loved this book! Did y’all notice the amount of times “heart beat” was said? It’s said almost as frequently as lightening and thunder in Fourth Wing. I think there is a few almost every chapter. I’m guessing it’s foreshadowing that Xaden will die and Violet will use here second signet to bring him back to life, like y’all have said.
Oh yay! you guys are back! THIS DAMN BOOK! The ending KILLED me I just sat for a solid 30 minutes... Just couldn't function...After listening to this here are my thoughts - Andarna: I think she's iridescent go and google that color to understand and it's the first description that makes me think this she says something along the lines of iridescent purple or something, and I am super pissed about her wing situation and really hope Violet gets to ride her. Jack: I kind of called that one (on an earlier video) I knew something was up with those red-rimmed eyes (The assassin that killed Nadine was also described as having red rims). The theory for me is that I think Melgren is Venin or in league with them and is trying to have the venin infiltrate Basgaith... Dain: I love that he doesn't fully turn from himself (he wouldn't read Violet's memories cause she was injured and it went against the Codex). Xaden plot twist: I AM UNWELL! I don't think Violet will go for Dain just because she says something to the effect of "My love is not fickle" so I think she'll fight for Xaden. Also don't forget for a damn minute that the fact that there are a few names that we STILL don't have (Xaden's Mum, Violet's Dad, Dain's Dad)
I agree with " chameleon." I kind of think of her as the H.P. cloak, and think about when she is older making armor out of scales for Vi. They could be so lethal together!!
Just doing my reread and noticed: Varrish knows what Xaden and Violet's weaknesses are, and the general of the Venin refers to both weaknesses in the "nightmares"...
Because that’s his signet. To recognize weakness. I don’t think he’s the general though. I think venins are intinnsic by nature. They knew Violet and Xaden since fourth wing’s resson.
1:56:52 the excerpt at the beginning of Chapter 47 (ebook p639) says that “Initiates have reddish rings to their eyes that come and go depending on how often they drain.” Jacks eyes during their challenge in 4th wing had a red ring, but when he returned in IF they were “glacial blue.” I think this is how Xaden was able to stay with Violet after he turned
@@erikadeleche5354 I 100% think she knows what he is, but probably thinks he’s safe for now, especially since Jack refrained from hurting her and even saved her during Iron Flame. Maybe since his intentions were for good his timeline until he’s no longer safe to be around will be slower? And I’m curious if leadership knows, I’m doubtful that they do but he’s going to need the serum at some point.
@@erikadeleche5354 slower inside of the wards makes sense, makes me wonder if it took 7 months from threshing until squad battle for them to figure out Jack is Venin since Nolan had been healing him since then. And I’m trying not to reread….I just don’t know if I have that much commitment in me right now 😂
The part that intrigued me more of this book is everything around Andarna. Something that was been around my head is the hierarchy of Dragons. My greatest question of all is who are the Elders? I assumed that they are the oldest of each den (which I assume that Codagh is one of them) but what makes me suspicious about that is that Andarna mentions that she listened about Violet for the first time from the Elders. Which makes you question why would they be talking about her? One of me theories is that around Violet’s 18th summer her dad was doing the research about feathertails and that maybe that’s the reason why the Elders were talking about Violet, or maybe Sorrengail family in general. I also note that timing is suspicious, her dad’s “dead” is very close to that time. Its something that I have been thinking about and that I would like to listen to what other people opinions! P.S. I really enjoy listening you talk about these books
1:09:06 I’m thinking Cat and Aaric could be an interesting coupling, especially since she clearly wants to rule. I like the idea of Cat falling in love with Aaric without her knowing he’s a prince. Their personalities seem to vibe better together as well. I think he would stand up to her.
I feel like with some of the theories we just scanned over small things and thats how we , I, Missed Jack being alive. So now diving deep into Iron Flame i am looking at the smallest things ever. Its insane. I need the ending to not be a villian arc next book, i need it fixed. i was soooo sad at the ending after absolutely loving the ENTIRE book. I need it fixed in book 3. i will RIOT. LOL
Going on the theory of violet's second signet having to do with being a source of power in some way, what if the match with Jack Barlowe in fourth wing wasn't really him pushing his venin power INTO her, but him channeling FROM her and that's also why she was out so long in the infirmary. That could also be why he doesn't try to kill her after he's brought back, why the venin keep saying she is coveted and will be rewarded for bringing her. Once power is drained from the earth it doesn't replenish, but she living and can "replenish".
I thought it was very clear that Violet knows Xaden is venin now. Which in my mind something happened within that time. Maybe Imogen. But I would state on my life that Violet knows he’s venin.
I agree she regressed so BAD... Like there had to of been a better way to showcase her going through it/not being herself while not undoing all her intelligence it just did not feel natural more so annoying
Agree but also saw a comment from Rebecca that it’s intentional, like Violet is going through major self esteem issues because she’s always grounded herself with her knowledge and she learned that was all wrong - and at the same time has to balance half her friends being traitors while lying to the other half.
Random thoughts/predictions: -I think violet is going to find her dads research when she’s going through her mothers stuff before burning it for Malek. -Are all the assassins actually Venin OR are they being controlled/influenced by venin via mental powers? Which they obviously have strong ones since the Sage was able to infiltrate violet and xaden’s dreams even through the wards.. I’m leaning towards them being influenced and probably by Aetos, who’s probably a venin. - venin are formed from greed. They take more for their own selfish desires. I think it’s a mistake to think ALL venin are on the same “team” because they all have their own greedy desires. The sage probably is the smartest and has built an army of them by tricking people into becoming venin so he can use them. But there are others on different levels of descent into levels of venin out there doing things for their own reasons. (I think we might even find out we see an “addict” like trope with their addiction to taking power, maybe some make the mistake once and then it’s so hard to stop. -xaden better not pull the “well my only redemption now is to join the venin and take them out from the inside/take control of them so I can protect violet” bullshit.
As I commented elsewhere on this video, I definitely think there are more than one "faction" of venin. Maybe that's what the different colored robes/wyvern fire represent. It does seem like the one who is after Violet wants to "wield" her according to Wynn, but the one who was fighting with Xaden wanted him to turn. If Aetos Sr. Isn't a venin or "in cahoots" with them, I'd be very surprised.
I think the whole Dain thing is going to bring up a LOT of parallels with Xaden being intinsic. We can’t be mad at Dain intruding on her mind/thoughts if we don’t show anger over Xaden doing the exact same. I think because of this we haven’t seen Dain’s full arc, bc as Violet processes this and (eventually) fully forgives Xaden, she is going to have to give similar empathies to Dain as well.
it is still a little different since Dain shared the information which caused some serious consequences while Xaden did not. because I feel Violet doesn't totally forgive Dain mostly because of Liam and Soleil's death
It was so heartbreaking to realize that Violet's nightmares about the Sage were really belonging to Xaden or at the very least shared. It was such a bit of foreshadowing for Xaden's choice at the end that is all the more delicious in hindsight. Excited to see ya'll's deep dive!
See I was wondering if they were belonging to xaden orrrr is that venin are able to actually like dream walk and show them the “future” in a sense. Where they are actually separate dreams for each of them.
@@ashleythaxton3638 oh that's so interesting! I didn't even think of that! Considering what we know about venin and their abilities are so limited, that's 100% possible.
Okay, I've got a crazy theory: Violet's mum is a venin (but has somehow learned to hide and control it), and it has something to do with violet's chronic illness 1. In the beginning of fourth wing she mentions her mom having been ill while pregnant with her (so lilith turned venin around that time) 2. When they are presented to the dragons violet tells that when she was a child her mom once took her folklore book away after violet had seen red in her eyes and screamed, pressuming she was venin 3. The missive from nolon to lilith in chapter 66 of iron flame It would 1. mean that Xaden can learn to hide and control it (as Jack could as well) and 2. that Violet as well is some kind of venin (which would also explain the thing with her eye colour changing)
In the small details that jumped at me in the first read.... Violet's dreams about the sage are not innocent, I'm sure he controls them and learns about her in them, and I'm liking that to an effect similar to the runes linked to a specific individual (he got her hair or her blood) and Varrish being killed by Violet wit Xaden's ALLOY dagger!! (One of my headcannons is that Varrish is a Venin, he got Jack mended because he knew he was a Venin as well, when he tortured prisonners at his outpost, he had too many deaths - was he absorbing them? - he controls his dragon and wants to control all other dragons ... )
I would love to know your opinion when X thought, "What is it about me that makes me fail the females in my life?" Last chapter XPOV, is he just talking about Vi and Sigel, or was there something that happened more between him and Kat? Mother issues? Bc ultimately I think that was the fear that made him reach for more power, bc he didn't want fail Vi, like he had the others.
I thought it was his mommy issues. Yarros has had at least one male lead in her contemporary romance books be abandoned by a mother and it messes him up. I'm guessing that's why Xaden reacts the way he does when violet says she "loved him" in the last bit of fourth wing. Maybe his mom said something similar to him when she left. Poor Xaden.
I guessed Xaden would become Venin when they battled the Venin at the Gryphon mansion. When she had the dream I knew. I only just came across Fourth Wing 2 days before Iron Flame dropped so i cant wait to reread and see what I've missed BUT for Vi 2nd signet, I'm thinking * the obvious theory that she can communicate with the dead but personally I dont think so because her power was cut off during that time with Liam and it would just be too easy * Amplifying, many people seem stronger and able to do things with their signets that they oreviously couldn't or seem very powerful like Rhi summoning through walls, Mira making a shield outside the walls, Ridock holding back dragon flame with a wall of ice etc but maybe this is her being able to channel energy into other people * something to do with knowledge but ny issue with this is that she was so damn stupid and imperceptive this book that I can't see how it manifested in this book I'm going to wait a few weeks and reread both to see what else sticks out.
My initial thoughts after only reading once (I’m sure I’ll change my mind 😅). I think Violet definitely knows about Xaden, but she told us her love isn’t fickle. She will do everything to save Xaden, including hiding his secrets. I definitely think Andarna was giving us major Violet prophecy vibes. After Fourth Wing I was so focused on the Endgame of the series being uncovering the true history of Navarre and helping save the people of Poromiel by defeating the Venin, and maybe uniting as one kingdom. But now I agree with you, this world is so much bigger than what we thought and the endgame has a lot more to do with Venin after reading Iron Flame. But why is she a prophecy? I thought it was just because she is part scribe part rider but now I definitely feel it’s a LOT more than that. Possibly something to do with our theory that Violet’s disease has something to do with venin attacking her mom while she was pregnant. Is Violet essentially part venin, but her human side is more dominant while Xaden is part venin (maybe through his mom or simply by now being turned) and his venin side wins out. I agree with you that there are a lot more Venin living in Navarre than anyone originally thought. I think Violet’s prophecy has more to with being the one who can heal and unite everyone - not just simply defeating the venin (because Xaden and all those lives that would be lost) but finding the key that allows them all to coexist and control their power. Off to reread!
I completely agree that she knows. I don't think she's turning a blind eye. I think she's going into problem solving mode and will work to find a way to cure him. My endgame prediction is that Xaden is going to infiltrate the venin and destroy them from the inside. Can't wait to see how wrong I am 😂
Everyone seems to think that Jack didn't die when Baide did, because he was venin. If you read Chapter 60, they discuss how Jack only has five minutes, but they want to keep him alive long enough to question him. They agree that the solution is to use the serum. The serum blocks the connection. I think that's what kept him alive - and they keep giving it to him. Will he die if he stops taking it? Could they have used it on Liam?
More from me. And I apologize for going off, but I have been WAITING for people to finish and this is my first chance to verbal diarrhea. :42ish - the tension was still heavily intertwined with the plot especially with the luminary issue and so I've gotta agree with Nicole on it being plot 1A. :45:30 - I wonder about Varrish - I need to go through again to see if she notices his eyes deeply enough to comment on them because RY does focus on eyes a lot. Was Varrish a mini-venin? :46:50 - Jack I think was brought back partially because Varrish knew he was a Violet nemesis (re: Varrish's comment in the interrogation scene). But I also wonder why they had Jack nice? Was it because the venin want Violet so much? :58ish - I wonder if another reason Violet doesn't suspect much because the Book of Brennan didn't mention much about RSC? I can see it both ways on her but mostly just her being so gd'ed discombobulated the whole book because she mentions it herself that she can't do crap right. :58:40 - MY LIAM COMMENT 1:11:50 - on my second read-through, I did catch that Varrish specifically tortured her when he knew her mom was gone. 1:15ish - there was also a reference about Lillith saying to Violet that she's so like her dad but Violet saying he's still in Mira and Brennan in different ways. 1:16:30 - I checked the text and didn't see anything distinct about the eyes at all ... 1:22 - Stupid Cat does help get you that throne scene ... but Violet does break through the haze at one point that she HAS made Xaden lose control (and Cat even knows it from something Xaden even said after kissing her in the palace). (speaking of the palace, I actually did ADORE that Violet compared Xaden to Dain because it was TRUE.) 1:29 - he said he didn't mean to share that with her (or didn't realize that she did), but Violet was like, dude, hot. Re: Violet's signet - an interesting line with Felix about her not necessarily being a lightning wielder, but a power wielder, commenting that she wields Xaden, too. So I wonder if her second signet is about her ability with people ... partially because of how she gains such close friendships but also on her commenting if how she might have been able to make peace with stupid Amber ... 1:40 - also with Baide's eyes being a different color - that couldn't have been unintentional. 1:44 - MIRA IS IN CHAPTER 65. It's half a line - "nor are the sobs racking Mira's body" and Brennan is just staring off into space. 1:45ish - I think they're back in Basgiath just because the wards are back up ... 1:47 - with all the dreams, I wonder if there was misdirection in the book of who the venin *actually* wanted, whether it was Violet or Xaden. It's been pretty obvious to seem that it was Violet because of the lightning, but given everything with Varrish, was it actually Xaden? Or, like Violet was the lure for Xaden, is Xaden the venin lure for Violet? Remember, Varrish mentioned that Violet was Xaden's one weakness ... 1:50ish - I personally think she cried herself to sleep after everything and maybe went to bed without him and since he warded her room, he joined her after? 1:53 - also with Tairn's comment that Sgaeyl would be inconvenienced if Xaden died, that would be true and Violet asks oh, is that all I am to you, an inconvenience? And Tairn sidesteps the question. So I think that if Violet died, it would set off the chain reaction, but I don't necessarily think that Xaden dying would do the same ... Other: I do ADORE RY's nod to the fans by Xaden calling him and Violet endgame. Ha. And, I wonder if wards accept lower levels of venin - since one of the chapter titles talks about the different levels - initiate, Asim, Sage, etc. ... if the early early levels can sneak in with the wards?
I think Violet's second signet could be talking to dead people - hear me out. The whole Liam interigation situation seemed a whole lot more real than her mind just trying to comfort her, and when she is in battle at the end she thinks she sees Liam but then realises it's Sloane. Could this be Violet's second signet manifesting (in the torture chamber) becasue she was in a place of need? Also gives her a chance to create peace/happinedd as apposed to her more destrucive lightning signet for Tairn. It's mentioned uite a bit that signets say more about a rider than the dragon, and her development from needing to survive so developing a lightning signet to give her the upper hand in training and weilding, but now she needs information and can get that from people who have died. We also haven't heard of anyone else having that signet and could be linked to Andarna's uniqness??? It would also be interesting that she can't talk to her Dad, and there is a very common theory that her Dad is actually a venin.
I think that would depend a lot on if that signet was also immune to the serum that dulled their powers and connections to their dragons because I believe she was under that when Liam appeared 🤷♀️
I really hope we can take some time to dedicate to Andarna. Like...where did she come from?? She said she waited 650 years to hatch and was left behind for the wardstone. Tairn provided his ancestral line when he bonded with Violet. Andarna only introduced herself. Does she not have parents? I'm so confused. Also, I'm thinking feathertails might be involved with the cure for venin, which is why Violet’s dad was researching them. I have so many thoughts running through my head; I need book 3 right now 😂 I need answers
I think Yarros is gonna delve more into Andarna's history in book 3 as I feel like we are also going to be exposed more to the dragon elder's in book 3. The whole dragon history and backgrounds are so interesting
Re recovered letters, the begining of the book says 'The following text has been faithfully transcrabed from Navarrian into modern language by Jesinia Neilwarth, Curator of the Scribe Quadrant at Basgiath War College.' So I think we are reading history book many years in the future which is the reason for 'recovered etc' Regarding Xaden, I think one of his parents is Venin. Either his dad survived or his mother become a Venin when she left them. That would explain the whole Venin obsession over him/family comment and ofcourse they want him because if his mind reading abilities. I believe they want Violet only because they know she is only one that can stop them as with the last person who wielded lightning. On top of that I also dont think Liam was hallucination, either that has something to do with her second signet or there might be bigger play on their 'gods'/higher power that could help them. And lastly I think the Venin General is able to get into people's dreams to get information out of them. That is excatly the reason why they know so much about Xaden and Violet. I think they communicate with them like that to psych them out, that is why Xaden knew they are after him and they told Vi that she will break down the wards herself to save Xaden, which I believe will happen in future books.
I have a huge Theory… the venin told Xaden “I told you already, that you will turn for love” … if we go back to the dreams with the venin, he told Violet “you will come soon, and you would do it for love” … I definitely think Xaden is going to them trying to figure out a cure, and that is why Violet will go to them as well, to try to get Xaden back
that would be so cool! or i could see her sacrifice herself or make a deal somehow to get the cure for xaden, i feel like she’s always trying to sacrifice herself 😅
Also that she would bring down the wards for love, I think he goes a lil further down the venin hole before coming back out…im getting anakin skywalker vibes
I genuinely loved the book, but listening to you guys talked about the ending with Xadens POV... You brought a HUGE question into my mind.. Venin siphon power from people when they touch them, If Xaden is being a Venin will he be able to steal energy and power from people when he touches them? What will this do for his relationship with Violet because clearly they have a VERY physical relationship, he struggled to keep his hands off her at literally any moment they were together rather its by his hand, shoulder, SHADOWS.. We know that they can siphon because Jack siphoned from Dain when Xaden had Jack in shadows, So its obvious that Xaden will have that power as well.. Is the siphoning Controlled but also on another point on this topic of Xaden being a Venin, He looked back at Melgren and said that the he was the one the venin wanted, so did Riorson make a deal with the sage prior to the war? How could he possibly know that the venin wanted him, PLUS DID HE NOT TELL VIOLET THAT SHE SHOULD BE SCARED OF HIM LONG BEFORE WE KNEW HE WAS VENIN?!?! I just fully spiraled down this rabbit hole simply because you spoke of the POV... Please talk deeper on this topic in your deep dive.
I absolutely loved Iron Flame, I personally rate it higher than Fourth Wing but I am completely heartbroken by the ending. I really needed to hear others talk about the book
So with regards to Xaden being a vein and nobody knowing - it is possible only Violet saw the red rim around his eyes at the end. It says in Chapter 47 that initiates have reddish rings to their eyes that come and go depending on how often they drain. If they don't drain, then they may not have these red rimmed eyes making them blend in. Violet saw him after he had just drained (ugh - I'm still not ok).
SPOILERS** Okay I have a few questions for you guys to consider in your deep dive - 1) if Naolin is a venin and is still alive what happened to his bond with Tairn? Because if anything this book proved the bond shouldn’t be broken just because of that. 2) I know there is a lot of questions about xadens second signet, but if he can only read peoples intentions how is he responding directly to violets thoughts? 3) Have you guys given any thought into the chapter openers referencing violet? They refer to her as a cadet which would indicate she doesn’t graduate from Basgiath. I just assumed that the college didn’t exist for her to graduate from, but based on the ending of iron flame I’m not so sure what that could mean. I guess it could be referencing her title in the time period in which the letters were exchanged, but my mind immediately goes to her death 😭
Another thing we learned from Jack Barlowe is that venin are still venin after being resurrected!! Assuming he died. So no 'Xaden dies and Vi resurrects him with her signet and he's okay again'. Violet and Xaden sleeping together at the end also caught me off guard, and the fact that they indeed 'socialized' for a couple of hours while waiting for Sawyer. But I love Violet's line "My love isn't fickle" and I think she will help Xaden with keeping it a secret and searching for a cure. Especially since she would also do everything to let Xaden live and that she understood that some people steal magic from the earth when she was burning out. Also "you will come soon and you'll do it for love" as the Sage said, standing by Xaden who turned for love. Xaden's eyes would be quickly back to normal. I think there was a quote that the red goes away with freshly turned venin and it becomes more and more red with siphoning. Xaden will probably siphon as little as he can. She drank the juice from the scribe professor without hesitation, because it was juice! She knew how it smelled in water, but the juice probably masked the smell
Have you guys read vampire academy? This parallels rose and Dimitri! I think somehow violet will figure out how to bring xaden back from being venin but I think he will get pretty far into it and be her villain for a bit. I also think xadens mom will be in this middle of this. Either venin adjacent or helping figure out venin or something crazy like that. I feel xadens mom will play some kind of role going forward.
I am SO happy I found this podcast, I finished Iron Flame last night and my head has been spinning. after watching this I'm definitely going to be re-reading. I'm waiting until the audio book is released here in Ireland but I'm 100% re-reading both FW and IF.
Well hear me out, if Violet’s second signet has to do with seeing Liam, and Andarna’s name means “Second honour” - maybe the second honour refers to seeing someone (loved one) who is dead OR the second honour refers to the activation of the ward stone, but the. it’s already done & dusted…
Wtf? I feel like I missed something, what do you mean Mira was missing at the end??? She was at the battle and she saw her mom was dead and then we shifted to like trying to get to Xaden… I think she’s at the school and fine 😂
I feel like we were all thinking basgiath would be like the center of the series itself and then she like opened up a whole world we werent prepared for.
If I have it well at that point Jack’s Dragon was talking to them directly and apologized. But as Sgaeyl and Tairn chose them with their reasons, and Andarna was waiting for centuries to hatch!!!! To be able to choose Vi, every dragon has a reason. And Varris thought they can influence them… but I don’t think so. 1:42:49
The end he asked if she would stick by him like she promised. I didn’t read that ending as she doesn’t know or pretending to not know…i think he’s not immediately venom and she is gonna try to help find a cure
I also just want to leave here that in one of her recent interviews after being asked if Xaden and Vi are endgame RY says she believes in HEA but stressed very much (!) that Violet is the main character. - The throne scene might also be foreshadowing that she’ll end up on the throne, not (with) Xaden - Also, what’s up with the extra attention on how beautiful Aaric’s dragon is? Sus
I haven't watched the whole video or your deep dive yet but my overarching prediction of the whole series is that venin are not automatically bad. The dragons have this idea about the sacrilege of pulling from the earth and perhaps they only know the bad examples but pretty much every variation of every story about witchcraft pulls from earth-based magic and it not being bad in and of itself, only bad if it's abused. I think the fact that she made Xaden a venin proves she's going to reveal that if you're a good person at heart, being a venin does not make you evil. I said this from book 1 actually, I can't remember a scene that triggered it but it felt like the venin were trying to communicate something to Violet but mostly they were evil, but not that being a venin made them evil... I'm not going to be able to explain it until I read both books through again but, I have a very strong feeling there's some other even worse evil (we've already seen the symbolic evils of prejudice and war, etc... point is I think Yarros cares more about symbolism) and the venin are just trying to be under the same protection as the 'good guys' and the whole series is more about tolerance than just your traditional goodies and baddies. I mean look at Naolin and Xaden pulling from the earth to save the people they loved! These are not the acts of evil people! You can't convince me they're different, evil people now!
Pausing at 1:23 to say that Vi hasn't been confident from the beginning and this book has been her mirror. She's acting like Xaden (who she fights with for acting like this) she thinks her friends will turn her in for telling secrets... this is her book to realize WHO THE FUCK SHE IS!!!! Tairn keeps saying it and idk if it's because it's the norm bit A DRAGON CHOSE YOU. Violet doesn't trust herself and this is her going through it. Cat was needed for her to trust herself and Xaden
I wanna say you guys did amazing. Like you did amazing with the theories. In the third book why am I feeling Xaden will be like "violet you have to kill me it's the only way" God I hope I'm wrong. And I also feel like the title of the third book will Gove us a hint seeing as iron flame title is a hint to the book
My quick thoughts/theories about iron flame (spoiler based!!): 1. I liked the ending and agree although heart wrenching I think it was ingenious. 2. I think Nicole is right about the being based in Basgiath for the future too. Makes me think logistically how will they uproot from Aretia - so much setting up of Riorson house/ Aretia for what? 3. Did Xaden feel like he was dying so not to leave Violet he turned venin? Or did the venin he was facing force him to turn to trade him not running to collect Violet? 4. I think Violet’s second signet will allow her to speak/interact with the dead? Benefitting for the purpose of more information about the Venin to save Xaden/ kill them all off eventually. 5. I think maybe Violet might develop 3 signets. 6. I got bored with the whole mountain trek section because the fliers still hated the riders afterwards it didn’t force them to respect/ integrate better with each other. 7. I loved the addition of the runes and their functions. Loved how Xaden gave her the daggers with them in the 1st book and they had more functions than just being suited for her to use in combat. Wish we had a scene with him teaching her to draw runes directly. 8. Although I loved the spice I also agree with Nicole that the throne scene was a bit weird. I thought the whole thing didn’t happen at first because we span afterward to him against the table with white knuckles. I thought it was some inntinsic related mindfun (if that makes sense😂) and had to reread to say oh it actually did happen physically!
@@rocio_mb I think she will get two signets when she begins channelling from Andarna as she is a special/immensely powerful dragon. One will be something physical/elemental maybe like mending magic/amplifying signets as she always wants to help others . I also thought another signet will be transcendental related because of her need of information so dreamwalking/speaking with souls or dead people/resurrection. Hope that explains my thoughts been thinking and rereading iron flame for answers!
I think there’s potential that Vi can have 2-4 signets. She has two dragons and could potentially get 2 signets each dragon but I have a feeling RY probably won’t go that route but hey we don’t know much about Vi’s family 🤷♀️
@@gigiooo10 yeah I agree since my last comment I think perhaps 2 or 3 signets max but maybe extra abilities due to her either being part venin or related to the gods in some way.
*****SPOILERS DONT NOT READ IF YOU HAVENT FINISHED!!!!********* So did anyone else pick up on the venin are constantly aware of magic power and called to draining that power (jack basically says so when Xaden goes to ask about cure). Violet is the strongest magically powered rider on the continent because she has two dragons (she even constantly talks out how she herself can feel the huge amount of power she holds) that is such huge foreshadowing that Xaden just being around her is inevitable going to be painful to him because with him having turned more into a "I don't care if you don't necessarily want this it will keep you safe type" of guy I think he's going to leave at least for awhile until violet figures out how to heal him. (see the vampire academy series for a similar trope) and then that also makes me think that he is going to drain someone that we the readers care about, along with the characters and it will be another source of turmoil for violet and Xaden once he's healed. Also as we saw with jack apparently once you're venin clearly your dragon and the bond doesn't mean as much otherwise he wouldn't have killed his dragon and lived, with that being said that makes it so Xaden can leave without Sagle.
I don't believe Tarens old rider is alive and Venin. I believe he is truly gone since Jack and Xaden are still bonded to theirs. But Jack said something similar to what Varrish said about controlling their dragons. I think Varrish was venin too. But he for sure is dead since he was killed by the correct weapon.
We just don't no enough about Venin and that's what I'm excited for in the next book is understanding Venin. And when Xadens mom is going to pop they didn't just throw that nugget out for no reason
My feeling on the “recovered” language is that Basgiath becomes a battleground and is at least partially destroyed, they’re recovered from the wreckage, and X&V’s love story is so important to the history (especially now that he is venin) that J included it …. maaaaybe bc they become king and queen BUT not getting too far that way yet 😅
Absolutely loved this review, plus I immmediately subscribed!!!! You two are so nice! I’ll have to check out more book reviews. It came out in my birthday month last year and I’ve just returned from vacation and this book was still on my kindle waiting to be continued to be read where I had left off at the start of my vacation, so I devoured the rest of the chapters in a few days. I just did a search for the book reviews and man the subjects on this one and Fourth Wing and sometimes the author herself, I guess the audience is so-so on it. Some praise her, some really diss by saying it’s the worst. I’m so excited for the tv series
Yes at 1 hour and 41 when you say major prophacy vibes .... i was thinking this when i woke up this morning all of it screams prophecy... and lilith adds to it when she says something along the lines of every thing thats has happened was to get you to this very moment before she died 😊
1:17:30 in one of the final scenes jacks dragon was described as its eyes having changed colors too. Maybe when arises becomes be in there dragon is ultimately affected.
Violets second signet might be she can give power back to the earth as that’s the opposite of her taking power from the sky for her lightning! Andarna says natures likes all things in balance! This will also be the cure to save xaden! 😬
Ok hear me out I haven't seen this theory but Rebecca did confirm in an interview that Violets 2nd signet did manifest in iron flame. I think Violet can see through other peoples eyes, like kind of hop into other bodies for a moment. Because.... 1. When she looks through Andarna’s eyes at one point she can see through her vision. 2. As Violet is putting the pieces together for Xadens 2nd signet she mention that at her core she needs to know what's happening with everyone/ needs to know what's going on with everyone and that would tie with her scribe self needing to know everything as well 3. When her mom dies there's a moment where she doesn't know if it's Brennan saying something or if it was herself (and signets do manifest in high stress emotional situations). 4. There's a moment during one of the saucey scenes for like one sentence when it seems like it changes from Violets internal dialogue to Xaden’s (not in italics) almost like she jumps into his pov for a moment. Soooo... Just throwing that out there.
Did everyone miss Nolon said "It's hard to fix a soul" when he was talking to Varrish??? Xadens soul is going to get fixed!!!! He will live cuz they fix his soul!
1:15:47 See the crazy thing is about her dads research is even violets mom said that she knew the ward would be messed up because violets dad had set the journals were false. It could have been very likely that he had private documents or maybe the journal her mom gave her came from her dad. It was kind of randomly thrown in there.
In regards to second signet, did it strike anyone besides me odd that Violet temporarily gained Xadin's second signet when they were having fun time in that chair??????
my question with naolin being a venin is that wouldn’t be still be bonded to tairn? like jack and baide were still bonded and it seems as though sgaeyl and xaden still are. so why would tairn be able to bond violet if naolin was a venin and not dead.. also i am confused about how jack was able to coordinate the plan to take down the wards if he was under basgiath observation all the time? how did he communicate with the other venin outside the wards?
I have 2 theories. One could be choice and Tairn decided not to keep the bond with Naolin. but Sgaeyl and Baide did. The other theory is maybe Naolin was venin but ended up dying later in a skirmish, which is why he took so long to bond again.
37:51I think violet and xaden are going to die at the end or at least be somewhere that then can't be reached, we know the story is violets pov but jesenia is the one truly telling it
I think Andarna is still somehow royal just because the color purple is considered a symbol of royalty. Love that you released this episode and I can listen to you two while my friends still work on finishing the book. I was the first one in the group with finishing it in two days! So so so good
I was thing about the same thing about Andarna. 1. She killed Varrnish’s Dragon which killing dragon on dragon was very dishonorable for dragon kind, even though there was a very good reason you would think there would still be a punishment for Andarna. 2. Andarna is still very small so how in the world did she kill Varrnish’s Dragon, because in the beginning of the fight she got tossed like a bean bag and Violet talked about how small she is, and how she was going to die in the fight. So what really happened in that cave. 3. She told Violet she has wait over 600 years for a rider like her (even though that can mean anything) but it seems Andarna has picked violet not only for brains but something much deeper. I have a feeling she’s going to be the most powerful dragon because she might be royalty but also because she is supposedly the only dragon on her kind. Also if Andarna picked Violet for being different then maybe Vi will become royalty somehow, which RY gives hints when Vi was of the Throne while Xaden was you know lol.
I finished the book 36 hours ago and can NOT get over the whole Xaden's just chillin in her bed in the last chapter... This is wrecking me!! Going to have to re-read 20 times until book 3 😭😭😭😭
I felt THE EXACT SAME WAY about Violet drinking the poison/Tairn and signet blocker!! Like you drink it and learn what it smells like, then you’re smart enough to not drink it when it’s given to you a second time, then you just forget all of that and drink it when it’s given to you a third time!!? That was the only part of this book I was annoyed at! Lol I was rolling my eyes so hard 😂
I saw a comment saying that the first two times it was in water and the third time it was in juice to kinda of trick her because the juice would kind of hide the smell of the signet blocker. Which makes sense but I also believe that literally a few seconds before that they had all accomplished such an insane mission that Vi just had a lapse in judgment.
I think you have to remember that up to this point Violet views Nolon as 100% trustworthy. At the beginning of FW he’s been mending her for the past five years. She views him as a protector/healer/friend and so her guard is down with him. Even though as the reader I was thinking, “No, don’t drink that” I totally understand why she did. She doesn’t think he would ever harm her. If it had been anyone else I think she probably would have been suspicious or more cautious and not just drank it
Yes... I mean I was expecting her to be smart enough. Like imagine someone coming in the dark out of nowhere and handing you a drink! Would u drink it?! Noo. But she did bcz it was nolon n.she knew him and trusted him ever since she was a kid ... yh. But still wierd 😂😂😂
Iron flame made me realize that nothing is casually mentioned 😂. The mention of Xadens mom and she left after he was ten because the heir reached a certain age..feels like total bs and something told to Xaden so he wouldn’t ask questions about it. Violet even asks are you an only child? I think the mom left pregnant with another child in case the navarre govt found a way to kill xaden. And there would still be a an heir to aretia. But that she will appear in the books I genuinely feel certain.
Currently Finishing ACOTAR series and then moving to throne of Glass. Can’t wait for your deep dives on both. Helping fill the iron flame book hangover with all Sarah J Maas 😂
I really like the book, I just feel, certain reactions and interactions could have been more flushed out because they were so highly anticipated scenes. Also, I heard so much parts of the audiobook in your voices 😂😂
37:39 I mean, I wasn't paying attention to it but both in Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, before the Chapter 1 even begins, there is a line that said, "The following text has been faithfully transcribed from Navarrian into the modern language by Jesinia Neilwart," which lead me to the thought that maybe all of them really died and Jesinia was the only one who was alive and just retelling their stories. I don't like seeing the word "recovered" either. 😭😭😭
AHHHH! Two points on the Jack being a venin and why Nolon spent so much time trying to mend him! I think the two strongest voices pushing Nolon to do this was Varrish and Violet's mom. Varrish had conversations about Jack with Nolon (albeit vague) but in on of the correspondence bits at the beginning of a chapter was Nolon writing to Violet's mom saying basically that it wasn't going to work. Here's my theories! 1: Varrish was a background person for Book 1 that never made it onto the page, but he definitely kept an eye on Jack because he wanted Jack to be his protege, not Dain. A side theory to this goes to the "How can a venin still be bonded to a dragon" bit. Correct me if I'm wrong but both Jack's and Varrish's dragons are orange. Maybe certain color dragons have certain characteristics and that's how they chose who to bond with. Jack was a power hungry "gotta be first/the best" guy, and Varrish has that similar characteristic. Varrish needs to be in control, he needs to know all of the information, he needs to be on top. Maybe the orange dragons have those same characteristics. Both black dragons, Tarin and Codagh, are older, wiser, stick-to-the-rules type dragons. Maybe by the time Jack's dragon realized he was going venin, it was too late and Jack had a control on the dragon, like how Violet was overwhelmed by Tarin's emotions, but because Jack was stronger once venin, his emotions influenced his dragon. 2: Violet's mom was involved in this whole "mend Jack's mind" deal, but why? Because of Violet. The only reason Xaden didn't kill Violet in Book 1 was because the promise he made her mother. But for her mom, he was still the evil POS son of the rebellion leader and couldn't be trusted. She probably guessed that out of the riders who could turn venin, the top candidate would be Xaden on his path for revenge. (Obviously she didn't know the real him, but yeah). When she realized Violet was falling for him, she probably wanted to find a way to make sure she didn't turn venin, but if she did, her mom needed to know she could get her daughter back, because as the excerpt from the letter between Violet's mom and dad said, the only reason her mom would die would be for her children. But she couldn't just up and tell Violet all of these things, so she needed to do this in secret. This is with me only having read the books once each, and having only finished Iron Flame last night (aka 3 am) so there might be stuff wrong here but this is where my head's at!
Did anyone notice that in chapter 9 on page 78 Markham said "The last gryphon flier..." ? He didnt use word "rider" like everyone else in Navarre, insted used word "flier" as gryphon flieres call themselves. What do you think about it?
I just finished the book! Wow a lot fricken happened in that novel! Can someone please explain what happened with the wardstone when General Sorrengail came to save Violet? A second read is definately needed cause I didn't quite understand the whole Imbuing deal with the wardstones...
I think an iron flame Christmas theme might work, baby Andarna and Tairn outfits?? Dad as Xaden, Lexi can have a braid in her hair. Dragon wrapping paper maybe and gifts that revolve around like castles you can scale, dragons, or like pokemon could even work for this there's lots of dragonny pokemon, you can make the different signets and gifts creatively work for your decorations or baubels kinda? xx
I think in terms of the feathertails and the lore and research from Violets dad, it might be explored later with the multiple times in the book where the hatching grounds were mentioned for both Basgaith and Aretia.
I think Andarna is like a transparent crystal or prism. A prism or just white light will have all the colours together and I think thats why she can change her collor....also, didn't the book say that the pillar for the barrier had runes that looked like the shape of diamonds? Diamonds representing the 7th dragon perhaps?
First off, thank you both so much for reminding me there are 3 more books! That ending in IF had me devastated and crying… Spoilers - while I did feel the book was a bit too fast paced and that a lot of info was dropped on us, it makes me think she is setting up for a full on saving the world with the support the runes, Violent, the other locations (Isles, etc) as well as the Gryphon fliers. I think it will be all of them to save Xaden and in the next books she will need to dive deeper in to the above points to have the 5th book end happily. *RY always said she was a hopeless romantic so I’m not sure if this will end with a tragedy like Romeo & Juliet or if they will live on and their grandkids are reading the history books about them… but Xaden and Violet are definitely end game and no one can tell me differently! ❤️
So are we assuming Naolin’s bond broke with Tairn if he’s a venin? And that Xadens bond is now broken. (He says that Sgeagl had been unusually quiet since the battle) otherwise I’m confused as to how tairn would bond with violet? They don’t bond with more than one human at a time. That’s what I’m most confused about.
Y’all can we talk about how Xaden call him and Violet end game in the book! In the throne room scene (❤) he tells her they are end game. Which both gives me hope and scares the living shit out of me. I am hoping it means they living happy ever after ( maybe as king and queen Tyrrendor?) but something tells me that this could also means they end up dead which makes me sick to my stomach.
Apparently RY likes Happy Endings for the main couple, So I would say that means they ultimately live in the end. They probably go through hell and back to get there though.
I disagree about the end. Violet definitly knows he's a venin, but she's choosing to trust and help him, which was the point of the entire second book, for her to learn that she can trust him no matter what. She said her love is not fickle and she's sticking by it. I'm guessing her brain is already working overtime on finding a cure
She 100% said she knew he was venin. She thinks “no” and saw the red rings around his eyes.
I 100% agree with this!!!!
Exactly this was obvious to me. She’s standing by him.
Agreed
Exactly!!
I feel like Naolin being a venin and Brennan being in love with him paralells violet and Xaden in such a heartwrenching way
I think so 😢
Agreed. But I don’t think Naolin is alive anymore. I can’t figure out how Tairn could bond Violet if he were? Maybe I’m missing something and am wrong?? :)
@@kaytlynhonore1933Xaden says that he doesn’t feel the bond to Saegyl anymore in his chapter so they probably lose the connection once they become a Venin
Okay but hear me out, about the ending and why I believe violet is acting uncharacteristically… she felt the power beneath the ground too, she even began reaching for it right before she was tackled. She was in the same position Xaden was, they both believed and felt the other one dying and felt as though they had no choice but to reach for the well of power to turn venin. So my belief or theory is that she either forgives him because she was about to do the same. She says “I finally understand why someone would turn to stealing magic”.
Yes! I love this. I feel like the major character development she experienced in this book, as seen in her reaction to X's second signet, is her "my love is not fragile" deceleration. She works with him to overcome obstacles, she doesn't run away, which totally explains why she's still with him in his POV chapter. (I will happily take egg on my face if it turns out she doesn't know lol)
That's just what I understood when I read it, I agree with you!
Do you think that violet knows but they are dosing xaden like they are jack to keep him from fully turning?
Agreed
I think her mom realized what violet was about to do and that's why she kicked her over. And I think she knows because she's venin herself and channeled the earth to save both of them while she was pregnant with violet.
Last thought in regards to Cat...I LOVED that Violet was like "im not gonna fight you over a man" which is different than most other jealous ex tropes.
i think violet’s second signet is absolutely going to be the answer to curing xaden, andarna specifically chose violet because she would be the answer to the venin problem. the issue is when will she get the signet and will it be too late for xaden
And if they want to be extra dramatic it will be something like resurrection...so, Xaden might be killed by Violet and then after we all cried our heart out...the second signet will manifest.
He does like to say she’ll be the death of him.
@@Arimi1992 RY confirmed her second signet already manifested. Violet just doesn't realize it yet.
@@exmortaliz Uhhh, then I have to read the book again for any clues! :D Thanks
@@Arimi1992 pretty sure it has do with the Liam thing
I think we will learn more about Violet’s dad in book 3. Violet will begin sorting through her mother’s belongings and will discover some of his research or perhaps her mother’s journal?
1:08:50 I would love to see Cat with Aaric! it would be cool if they got together and she didn’t know that he was an heir, but their union could create a powerful treaty for both countries
Omg listening to you guys made me realize something. What if Naolin siphoned Tairn, turned venin and tried to take all of Tairn's power and that's what almost killed Tairn 😱
Ooo I love this and maybe that's why he wouldn't bond for so many years because he needed a rider that would 100% put dragons lives above themselves. Someone with honor.
😱
Omg omg omg
@@justchelsea2010like Violet who defended Andarna even though the odds were against her and she wasn’t even bonded
Me hating Dain made the interrogation scene hit so much harder that I was a sobbing mess at the end of it.
And I am anxious about what the Venin powers might imply cause the one fighting Xaden predicted his book ending and a similar scene was presented for Violet in this book.
I was very anxious and angry at the interrogation part
I did enjoy this book, but it felt like it needed another round or two of edits to clean it up, not as polished as Fourth Wing to me. I think they didn’t want to compete with the next Sarah J Maas book which comes out in January.
And I love Garrick! I just want him and Imogen to do something already!!!!!!
I feel like violets second signet has to do with talking to the dead or something similar to what resurrection could be and that she will be able to talk to her mom and dad like she was able to talk to Liam. I don’t think he was a hallucination
I would believe this if she wasnt cut off from her signet during that time.
She was cut off though
Definitely agree with that
She was cut off BUT Xaden still was able to speak to her through their connection, there's a line in italics from him that she responds.
@@rocio_mb I'll have to go back and reread, I don't remember that
Loved this book! Did y’all notice the amount of times “heart beat” was said? It’s said almost as frequently as lightening and thunder in Fourth Wing. I think there is a few almost every chapter. I’m guessing it’s foreshadowing that Xaden will die and Violet will use here second signet to bring him back to life, like y’all have said.
I was thinking she would be able to slow down time.
@@jamilsmommyyess!! It could be just for the sake of story telling, but there is too many times that Violet says "time slowed down to heartbeats"
@@jamilsmommy I think you could be right! A lot of the times “heart beat” is mentioned, it is referencing time.
All I noticed was how often "armoire" is used 😂
@@leeeeeee00000that’s why I was wondering if she could slow time
Oh yay! you guys are back! THIS DAMN BOOK! The ending KILLED me I just sat for a solid 30 minutes... Just couldn't function...After listening to this here are my thoughts - Andarna: I think she's iridescent go and google that color to understand and it's the first description that makes me think this she says something along the lines of iridescent purple or something, and I am super pissed about her wing situation and really hope Violet gets to ride her. Jack: I kind of called that one (on an earlier video) I knew something was up with those red-rimmed eyes (The assassin that killed Nadine was also described as having red rims). The theory for me is that I think Melgren is Venin or in league with them and is trying to have the venin infiltrate Basgaith... Dain: I love that he doesn't fully turn from himself (he wouldn't read Violet's memories cause she was injured and it went against the Codex). Xaden plot twist: I AM UNWELL! I don't think Violet will go for Dain just because she says something to the effect of "My love is not fickle" so I think she'll fight for Xaden. Also don't forget for a damn minute that the fact that there are a few names that we STILL don't have (Xaden's Mum, Violet's Dad, Dain's Dad)
SPOILER: I think she’s “chameleon” colored, because she blends with the rocks and can control her color.
I agree with " chameleon." I kind of think of her as the H.P. cloak, and think about when she is older making armor out of scales for Vi. They could be so lethal together!!
Melgren is deinitely dodgy.. he just vanished from the book towards the end. Probably went back to the other Venins?
Just doing my reread and noticed: Varrish knows what Xaden and Violet's weaknesses are, and the general of the Venin refers to both weaknesses in the "nightmares"...
Because that’s his signet. To recognize weakness. I don’t think he’s the general though. I think venins are intinnsic by nature. They knew Violet and Xaden since fourth wing’s resson.
1:56:52 the excerpt at the beginning of Chapter 47 (ebook p639) says that “Initiates have reddish rings to their eyes that come and go depending on how often they drain.” Jacks eyes during their challenge in 4th wing had a red ring, but when he returned in IF they were “glacial blue.” I think this is how Xaden was able to stay with Violet after he turned
Omg I forgot about that, that really helps! Thanks for bringing this up!
Interesting! So do you think Violet just doesn’t realize yet? (I think she knows) Or that it’s just not unsafe yet?
@@erikadeleche5354 I 100% think she knows what he is, but probably thinks he’s safe for now, especially since Jack refrained from hurting her and even saved her during Iron Flame. Maybe since his intentions were for good his timeline until he’s no longer safe to be around will be slower? And I’m curious if leadership knows, I’m doubtful that they do but he’s going to need the serum at some point.
@@lf1257 someone also said that the transformation is slower within the wards? i need to start my re-read lol
@@erikadeleche5354 slower inside of the wards makes sense, makes me wonder if it took 7 months from threshing until squad battle for them to figure out Jack is Venin since Nolan had been healing him since then. And I’m trying not to reread….I just don’t know if I have that much commitment in me right now 😂
The amount of times the isle kingdoms are mentioned in this book is for sure foreshadowing they will play a big role in the next book(s)!
I don’t know what it is, but every little mention of Liam made me feel like Violet did. made me instantly get choked up & teary eyed.
The part that intrigued me more of this book is everything around Andarna. Something that was been around my head is the hierarchy of Dragons. My greatest question of all is who are the Elders? I assumed that they are the oldest of each den (which I assume that Codagh is one of them) but what makes me suspicious about that is that Andarna mentions that she listened about Violet for the first time from the Elders. Which makes you question why would they be talking about her? One of me theories is that around Violet’s 18th summer her dad was doing the research about feathertails and that maybe that’s the reason why the Elders were talking about Violet, or maybe Sorrengail family in general. I also note that timing is suspicious, her dad’s “dead” is very close to that time. Its something that I have been thinking about and that I would like to listen to what other people opinions!
P.S. I really enjoy listening you talk about these books
1:09:06 I’m thinking Cat and Aaric could be an interesting coupling, especially since she clearly wants to rule. I like the idea of Cat falling in love with Aaric without her knowing he’s a prince. Their personalities seem to vibe better together as well. I think he would stand up to her.
There’s a line that’s like “most riders die from gravity” when talking about flying/falling off dragons but then Violet calls Xaden her Gravity….
Omg so she basically called him his death 😢
I feel like with some of the theories we just scanned over small things and thats how we , I, Missed Jack being alive. So now diving deep into Iron Flame i am looking at the smallest things ever. Its insane. I need the ending to not be a villian arc next book, i need it fixed. i was soooo sad at the ending after absolutely loving the ENTIRE book. I need it fixed in book 3. i will RIOT. LOL
Going on the theory of violet's second signet having to do with being a source of power in some way, what if the match with Jack Barlowe in fourth wing wasn't really him pushing his venin power INTO her, but him channeling FROM her and that's also why she was out so long in the infirmary. That could also be why he doesn't try to kill her after he's brought back, why the venin keep saying she is coveted and will be rewarded for bringing her. Once power is drained from the earth it doesn't replenish, but she living and can "replenish".
thissssss
also!! they say violet’s signet is “pure power” or something like that!
I almost died when Ridoc was hit. He's my FAVORITE side character.
I thought it was very clear that Violet knows Xaden is venin now. Which in my mind something happened within that time. Maybe Imogen. But I would state on my life that Violet knows he’s venin.
Violet being conveniently stupid for the sake of the plot, drove me crazy too. Happens over and over
I agree she regressed so BAD... Like there had to of been a better way to showcase her going through it/not being herself while not undoing all her intelligence it just did not feel natural more so annoying
Agree but also saw a comment from Rebecca that it’s intentional, like Violet is going through major self esteem issues because she’s always grounded herself with her knowledge and she learned that was all wrong - and at the same time has to balance half her friends being traitors while lying to the other half.
Yes! This!
Yeah and Rhi was way more intelligent and perceptive than her this book
Random thoughts/predictions:
-I think violet is going to find her dads research when she’s going through her mothers stuff before burning it for Malek.
-Are all the assassins actually Venin OR are they being controlled/influenced by venin via mental powers? Which they obviously have strong ones since the Sage was able to infiltrate violet and xaden’s dreams even through the wards.. I’m leaning towards them being influenced and probably by Aetos, who’s probably a venin.
- venin are formed from greed. They take more for their own selfish desires. I think it’s a mistake to think ALL venin are on the same “team” because they all have their own greedy desires. The sage probably is the smartest and has built an army of them by tricking people into becoming venin so he can use them. But there are others on different levels of descent into levels of venin out there doing things for their own reasons. (I think we might even find out we see an “addict” like trope with their addiction to taking power, maybe some make the mistake once and then it’s so hard to stop.
-xaden better not pull the “well my only redemption now is to join the venin and take them out from the inside/take control of them so I can protect violet” bullshit.
As I commented elsewhere on this video, I definitely think there are more than one "faction" of venin. Maybe that's what the different colored robes/wyvern fire represent. It does seem like the one who is after Violet wants to "wield" her according to Wynn, but the one who was fighting with Xaden wanted him to turn.
If Aetos Sr. Isn't a venin or "in cahoots" with them, I'd be very surprised.
I think the whole Dain thing is going to bring up a LOT of parallels with Xaden being intinsic.
We can’t be mad at Dain intruding on her mind/thoughts if we don’t show anger over Xaden doing the exact same.
I think because of this we haven’t seen Dain’s full arc, bc as Violet processes this and (eventually) fully forgives Xaden, she is going to have to give similar empathies to Dain as well.
it is still a little different since Dain shared the information which caused some serious consequences while Xaden did not. because I feel Violet doesn't totally forgive Dain mostly because of Liam and Soleil's death
i still want all of liam’s letters in another book 😭
Same girl same. I thought we'll get to read them but we didn't....
It was so heartbreaking to realize that Violet's nightmares about the Sage were really belonging to Xaden or at the very least shared. It was such a bit of foreshadowing for Xaden's choice at the end that is all the more delicious in hindsight. Excited to see ya'll's deep dive!
See I was wondering if they were belonging to xaden orrrr is that venin are able to actually like dream walk and show them the “future” in a sense. Where they are actually separate dreams for each of them.
@@ashleythaxton3638 oh that's so interesting! I didn't even think of that! Considering what we know about venin and their abilities are so limited, that's 100% possible.
Okay, I've got a crazy theory: Violet's mum is a venin (but has somehow learned to hide and control it), and it has something to do with violet's chronic illness 1. In the beginning of fourth wing she mentions her mom having been ill while pregnant with her (so lilith turned venin around that time) 2. When they are presented to the dragons violet tells that when she was a child her mom once took her folklore book away after violet had seen red in her eyes and screamed, pressuming she was venin 3. The missive from nolon to lilith in chapter 66 of iron flame It would 1. mean that Xaden can learn to hide and control it (as Jack could as well) and 2. that Violet as well is some kind of venin (which would also explain the thing with her eye colour changing)
Wait wait wait.. When did Violet mention her eye changing color?
Adding a comment here so I can get the answer as well. I don’t remember her eye color changing.
The eye color changing part is in Xaden’s pov chapters
In the small details that jumped at me in the first read.... Violet's dreams about the sage are not innocent, I'm sure he controls them and learns about her in them, and I'm liking that to an effect similar to the runes linked to a specific individual (he got her hair or her blood) and Varrish being killed by Violet wit Xaden's ALLOY dagger!! (One of my headcannons is that Varrish is a Venin, he got Jack mended because he knew he was a Venin as well, when he tortured prisonners at his outpost, he had too many deaths - was he absorbing them? - he controls his dragon and wants to control all other dragons ... )
Yes! I haven't felt this way about a book in years. This series just hits all the right notes for me!
I would love to know your opinion when X thought, "What is it about me that makes me fail the females in my life?" Last chapter XPOV, is he just talking about Vi and Sigel, or was there something that happened more between him and Kat? Mother issues? Bc ultimately I think that was the fear that made him reach for more power, bc he didn't want fail Vi, like he had the others.
I thought it was his mommy issues. Yarros has had at least one male lead in her contemporary romance books be abandoned by a mother and it messes him up. I'm guessing that's why Xaden reacts the way he does when violet says she "loved him" in the last bit of fourth wing. Maybe his mom said something similar to him when she left. Poor Xaden.
Or maybe his mom said "I never loved you," so the first time he hears that from a woman he'd obviously want to cling onto it for dear life.
He doesn’t care about Cat. I think he feels like he failed his mom. He didn’t tell Violet everything and her mom story is coming in book 3
I guessed Xaden would become Venin when they battled the Venin at the Gryphon mansion. When she had the dream I knew. I only just came across Fourth Wing 2 days before Iron Flame dropped so i cant wait to reread and see what I've missed BUT for Vi 2nd signet, I'm thinking
* the obvious theory that she can communicate with the dead but personally I dont think so because her power was cut off during that time with Liam and it would just be too easy
* Amplifying, many people seem stronger and able to do things with their signets that they oreviously couldn't or seem very powerful like Rhi summoning through walls, Mira making a shield outside the walls, Ridock holding back dragon flame with a wall of ice etc but maybe this is her being able to channel energy into other people
* something to do with knowledge but ny issue with this is that she was so damn stupid and imperceptive this book that I can't see how it manifested in this book
I'm going to wait a few weeks and reread both to see what else sticks out.
the amplifying signet theory is so good
My initial thoughts after only reading once (I’m sure I’ll change my mind 😅). I think Violet definitely knows about Xaden, but she told us her love isn’t fickle. She will do everything to save Xaden, including hiding his secrets. I definitely think Andarna was giving us major Violet prophecy vibes. After Fourth Wing I was so focused on the Endgame of the series being uncovering the true history of Navarre and helping save the people of Poromiel by defeating the Venin, and maybe uniting as one kingdom. But now I agree with you, this world is so much bigger than what we thought and the endgame has a lot more to do with Venin after reading Iron Flame. But why is she a prophecy? I thought it was just because she is part scribe part rider but now I definitely feel it’s a LOT more than that. Possibly something to do with our theory that Violet’s disease has something to do with venin attacking her mom while she was pregnant. Is Violet essentially part venin, but her human side is more dominant while Xaden is part venin (maybe through his mom or simply by now being turned) and his venin side wins out. I agree with you that there are a lot more Venin living in Navarre than anyone originally thought. I think Violet’s prophecy has more to with being the one who can heal and unite everyone - not just simply defeating the venin (because Xaden and all those lives that would be lost) but finding the key that allows them all to coexist and control their power. Off to reread!
I completely agree that she knows. I don't think she's turning a blind eye. I think she's going into problem solving mode and will work to find a way to cure him. My endgame prediction is that Xaden is going to infiltrate the venin and destroy them from the inside. Can't wait to see how wrong I am 😂
Everyone seems to think that Jack didn't die when Baide did, because he was venin. If you read Chapter 60, they discuss how Jack only has five minutes, but they want to keep him alive long enough to question him. They agree that the solution is to use the serum. The serum blocks the connection. I think that's what kept him alive - and they keep giving it to him. Will he die if he stops taking it? Could they have used it on Liam?
More from me. And I apologize for going off, but I have been WAITING for people to finish and this is my first chance to verbal diarrhea.
:42ish - the tension was still heavily intertwined with the plot especially with the luminary issue and so I've gotta agree with Nicole on it being plot 1A.
:45:30 - I wonder about Varrish - I need to go through again to see if she notices his eyes deeply enough to comment on them because RY does focus on eyes a lot. Was Varrish a mini-venin?
:46:50 - Jack I think was brought back partially because Varrish knew he was a Violet nemesis (re: Varrish's comment in the interrogation scene). But I also wonder why they had Jack nice? Was it because the venin want Violet so much?
:58ish - I wonder if another reason Violet doesn't suspect much because the Book of Brennan didn't mention much about RSC? I can see it both ways on her but mostly just her being so gd'ed discombobulated the whole book because she mentions it herself that she can't do crap right.
:58:40 - MY LIAM COMMENT
1:11:50 - on my second read-through, I did catch that Varrish specifically tortured her when he knew her mom was gone.
1:15ish - there was also a reference about Lillith saying to Violet that she's so like her dad but Violet saying he's still in Mira and Brennan in different ways.
1:16:30 - I checked the text and didn't see anything distinct about the eyes at all ...
1:22 - Stupid Cat does help get you that throne scene ... but Violet does break through the haze at one point that she HAS made Xaden lose control (and Cat even knows it from something Xaden even said after kissing her in the palace). (speaking of the palace, I actually did ADORE that Violet compared Xaden to Dain because it was TRUE.)
1:29 - he said he didn't mean to share that with her (or didn't realize that she did), but Violet was like, dude, hot.
Re: Violet's signet - an interesting line with Felix about her not necessarily being a lightning wielder, but a power wielder, commenting that she wields Xaden, too. So I wonder if her second signet is about her ability with people ... partially because of how she gains such close friendships but also on her commenting if how she might have been able to make peace with stupid Amber ...
1:40 - also with Baide's eyes being a different color - that couldn't have been unintentional.
1:44 - MIRA IS IN CHAPTER 65. It's half a line - "nor are the sobs racking Mira's body" and Brennan is just staring off into space.
1:45ish - I think they're back in Basgiath just because the wards are back up ...
1:47 - with all the dreams, I wonder if there was misdirection in the book of who the venin *actually* wanted, whether it was Violet or Xaden. It's been pretty obvious to seem that it was Violet because of the lightning, but given everything with Varrish, was it actually Xaden? Or, like Violet was the lure for Xaden, is Xaden the venin lure for Violet? Remember, Varrish mentioned that Violet was Xaden's one weakness ...
1:50ish - I personally think she cried herself to sleep after everything and maybe went to bed without him and since he warded her room, he joined her after?
1:53 - also with Tairn's comment that Sgaeyl would be inconvenienced if Xaden died, that would be true and Violet asks oh, is that all I am to you, an inconvenience? And Tairn sidesteps the question. So I think that if Violet died, it would set off the chain reaction, but I don't necessarily think that Xaden dying would do the same ...
Other: I do ADORE RY's nod to the fans by Xaden calling him and Violet endgame. Ha. And, I wonder if wards accept lower levels of venin - since one of the chapter titles talks about the different levels - initiate, Asim, Sage, etc. ... if the early early levels can sneak in with the wards?
“You’re going to be the death of me” really takes a whole new meaning since xaden became venin” for “her😭 I’ve never cried so hard in my life
I think Violet's second signet could be talking to dead people - hear me out. The whole Liam interigation situation seemed a whole lot more real than her mind just trying to comfort her, and when she is in battle at the end she thinks she sees Liam but then realises it's Sloane. Could this be Violet's second signet manifesting (in the torture chamber) becasue she was in a place of need? Also gives her a chance to create peace/happinedd as apposed to her more destrucive lightning signet for Tairn. It's mentioned uite a bit that signets say more about a rider than the dragon, and her development from needing to survive so developing a lightning signet to give her the upper hand in training and weilding, but now she needs information and can get that from people who have died. We also haven't heard of anyone else having that signet and could be linked to Andarna's uniqness??? It would also be interesting that she can't talk to her Dad, and there is a very common theory that her Dad is actually a venin.
I think that would depend a lot on if that signet was also immune to the serum that dulled their powers and connections to their dragons because I believe she was under that when Liam appeared 🤷♀️
I really hope we can take some time to dedicate to Andarna. Like...where did she come from?? She said she waited 650 years to hatch and was left behind for the wardstone. Tairn provided his ancestral line when he bonded with Violet. Andarna only introduced herself. Does she not have parents? I'm so confused.
Also, I'm thinking feathertails might be involved with the cure for venin, which is why Violet’s dad was researching them.
I have so many thoughts running through my head; I need book 3 right now 😂 I need answers
I think Yarros is gonna delve more into Andarna's history in book 3 as I feel like we are also going to be exposed more to the dragon elder's in book 3. The whole dragon history and backgrounds are so interesting
Re recovered letters, the begining of the book says 'The following text has been faithfully transcrabed from Navarrian into modern language by Jesinia Neilwarth, Curator of the Scribe Quadrant at Basgiath War College.' So I think we are reading history book many years in the future which is the reason for 'recovered etc'
Regarding Xaden, I think one of his parents is Venin. Either his dad survived or his mother become a Venin when she left them. That would explain the whole Venin obsession over him/family comment and ofcourse they want him because if his mind reading abilities. I believe they want Violet only because they know she is only one that can stop them as with the last person who wielded lightning.
On top of that I also dont think Liam was hallucination, either that has something to do with her second signet or there might be bigger play on their 'gods'/higher power that could help them.
And lastly I think the Venin General is able to get into people's dreams to get information out of them. That is excatly the reason why they know so much about Xaden and Violet. I think they communicate with them like that to psych them out, that is why Xaden knew they are after him and they told Vi that she will break down the wards herself to save Xaden, which I believe will happen in future books.
That’s exactly what I think l sounds like she knows Xaden will save them and he needs his power to save them
I have a huge Theory… the venin told Xaden “I told you already, that you will turn for love” … if we go back to the dreams with the venin, he told Violet “you will come soon, and you would do it for love” … I definitely think Xaden is going to them trying to figure out a cure, and that is why Violet will go to them as well, to try to get Xaden back
that would be so cool! or i could see her sacrifice herself or make a deal somehow to get the cure for xaden, i feel like she’s always trying to sacrifice herself 😅
And I'm feeleing anxious already
Also that she would bring down the wards for love, I think he goes a lil further down the venin hole before coming back out…im getting anakin skywalker vibes
I genuinely loved the book, but listening to you guys talked about the ending with Xadens POV... You brought a HUGE question into my mind.. Venin siphon power from people when they touch them, If Xaden is being a Venin will he be able to steal energy and power from people when he touches them? What will this do for his relationship with Violet because clearly they have a VERY physical relationship, he struggled to keep his hands off her at literally any moment they were together rather its by his hand, shoulder, SHADOWS.. We know that they can siphon because Jack siphoned from Dain when Xaden had Jack in shadows, So its obvious that Xaden will have that power as well.. Is the siphoning Controlled but also on another point on this topic of Xaden being a Venin, He looked back at Melgren and said that the he was the one the venin wanted, so did Riorson make a deal with the sage prior to the war? How could he possibly know that the venin wanted him, PLUS DID HE NOT TELL VIOLET THAT SHE SHOULD BE SCARED OF HIM LONG BEFORE WE KNEW HE WAS VENIN?!?! I just fully spiraled down this rabbit hole simply because you spoke of the POV... Please talk deeper on this topic in your deep dive.
I absolutely loved Iron Flame, I personally rate it higher than Fourth Wing but I am completely heartbroken by the ending. I really needed to hear others talk about the book
So with regards to Xaden being a vein and nobody knowing - it is possible only Violet saw the red rim around his eyes at the end. It says in Chapter 47 that initiates have reddish rings to their eyes that come and go depending on how often they drain. If they don't drain, then they may not have these red rimmed eyes making them blend in. Violet saw him after he had just drained (ugh - I'm still not ok).
I abandoned the hate train for Dain SO FAST when Varrish came into the picture. F THAT GUY!
SPOILERS** Okay I have a few questions for you guys to consider in your deep dive - 1) if Naolin is a venin and is still alive what happened to his bond with Tairn? Because if anything this book proved the bond shouldn’t be broken just because of that. 2) I know there is a lot of questions about xadens second signet, but if he can only read peoples intentions how is he responding directly to violets thoughts? 3) Have you guys given any thought into the chapter openers referencing violet? They refer to her as a cadet which would indicate she doesn’t graduate from Basgiath. I just assumed that the college didn’t exist for her to graduate from, but based on the ending of iron flame I’m not so sure what that could mean. I guess it could be referencing her title in the time period in which the letters were exchanged, but my mind immediately goes to her death 😭
Another thing we learned from Jack Barlowe is that venin are still venin after being resurrected!! Assuming he died. So no 'Xaden dies and Vi resurrects him with her signet and he's okay again'.
Violet and Xaden sleeping together at the end also caught me off guard, and the fact that they indeed 'socialized' for a couple of hours while waiting for Sawyer. But I love Violet's line "My love isn't fickle" and I think she will help Xaden with keeping it a secret and searching for a cure. Especially since she would also do everything to let Xaden live and that she understood that some people steal magic from the earth when she was burning out. Also "you will come soon and you'll do it for love" as the Sage said, standing by Xaden who turned for love.
Xaden's eyes would be quickly back to normal. I think there was a quote that the red goes away with freshly turned venin and it becomes more and more red with siphoning. Xaden will probably siphon as little as he can.
She drank the juice from the scribe professor without hesitation, because it was juice! She knew how it smelled in water, but the juice probably masked the smell
Good point about Jack from before ….. but also bad point because noooooo I don’t want this for Xaden 😭
Have you guys read vampire academy? This parallels rose and Dimitri! I think somehow violet will figure out how to bring xaden back from being venin but I think he will get pretty far into it and be her villain for a bit. I also think xadens mom will be in this middle of this. Either venin adjacent or helping figure out venin or something crazy like that. I feel xadens mom will play some kind of role going forward.
Vampire Academy was my first thought as well! I think his Mom is definitely going to be a part of this.
That’s what I told my friend too, it reminded me of them
I am SO happy I found this podcast, I finished Iron Flame last night and my head has been spinning. after watching this I'm definitely going to be re-reading. I'm waiting until the audio book is released here in Ireland but I'm 100% re-reading both FW and IF.
Well hear me out, if Violet’s second signet has to do with seeing Liam, and Andarna’s name means “Second honour” - maybe the second honour refers to seeing someone (loved one) who is dead
OR the second honour refers to the activation of the ward stone, but the. it’s already done & dusted…
Wtf? I feel like I missed something, what do you mean Mira was missing at the end??? She was at the battle and she saw her mom was dead and then we shifted to like trying to get to Xaden… I think she’s at the school and fine 😂
Yeah I was thinking this! I came to comments to see if anyone else said the same. She was there cos brannen was holding her back?
after their mom died and they are dragged out and V starts talking to R, she mentions that Brennan is sitting on his own and Mira is gone.
@@lelagecoetzee8501 ohhhh okay! Thank you! Yeah idk it didn’t really stand out to me like a big deal. Thanks for clearing that up!
I feel like we were all thinking basgiath would be like the center of the series itself and then she like opened up a whole world we werent prepared for.
If I have it well at that point Jack’s Dragon was talking to them directly and apologized. But as Sgaeyl and Tairn chose them with their reasons, and Andarna was waiting for centuries to hatch!!!! To be able to choose Vi, every dragon has a reason. And Varris thought they can influence them… but I don’t think so. 1:42:49
I truly SOBBED about Lilith and I’m not sure why? I also read it in 24 hours so I’m pretty sure I was delirious about it too 😂
Something about losing a mom will always make me lose it, especially if it’s a sacrifice to protect them
The end he asked if she would stick by him like she promised. I didn’t read that ending as she doesn’t know or pretending to not know…i think he’s not immediately venom and she is gonna try to help find a cure
I also just want to leave here that in one of her recent interviews after being asked if Xaden and Vi are endgame RY says she believes in HEA but stressed very much (!) that Violet is the main character.
- The throne scene might also be foreshadowing that she’ll end up on the throne, not (with) Xaden
- Also, what’s up with the extra attention on how beautiful Aaric’s dragon is? Sus
I hope Xanden's words" there’s any other future besides the one where you and I are endgame" are foreshadowing.
@@arduinna2 Also clinging on to that with my life
What does HEA mean?
@@theprettygoodgatsbyhappily ever after
I haven't watched the whole video or your deep dive yet but my overarching prediction of the whole series is that venin are not automatically bad. The dragons have this idea about the sacrilege of pulling from the earth and perhaps they only know the bad examples but pretty much every variation of every story about witchcraft pulls from earth-based magic and it not being bad in and of itself, only bad if it's abused. I think the fact that she made Xaden a venin proves she's going to reveal that if you're a good person at heart, being a venin does not make you evil. I said this from book 1 actually, I can't remember a scene that triggered it but it felt like the venin were trying to communicate something to Violet but mostly they were evil, but not that being a venin made them evil... I'm not going to be able to explain it until I read both books through again but, I have a very strong feeling there's some other even worse evil (we've already seen the symbolic evils of prejudice and war, etc... point is I think Yarros cares more about symbolism) and the venin are just trying to be under the same protection as the 'good guys' and the whole series is more about tolerance than just your traditional goodies and baddies. I mean look at Naolin and Xaden pulling from the earth to save the people they loved! These are not the acts of evil people! You can't convince me they're different, evil people now!
I listened to chapter 25 with headphones around the house and screamed when they said jack was alive. My poor boyfriend was so concerned 😂
SAME, minus they boyfriend part lmao
Pausing at 1:23 to say that Vi hasn't been confident from the beginning and this book has been her mirror. She's acting like Xaden (who she fights with for acting like this) she thinks her friends will turn her in for telling secrets... this is her book to realize WHO THE FUCK SHE IS!!!! Tairn keeps saying it and idk if it's because it's the norm bit A DRAGON CHOSE YOU. Violet doesn't trust herself and this is her going through it. Cat was needed for her to trust herself and Xaden
I wanna say you guys did amazing. Like you did amazing with the theories. In the third book why am I feeling Xaden will be like "violet you have to kill me it's the only way" God I hope I'm wrong. And I also feel like the title of the third book will Gove us a hint seeing as iron flame title is a hint to the book
How long do you reckon it will take for them to use Andama's scales to make them camouflaged and armoured...book 3,4 or 5 they definitely will.
My quick thoughts/theories about iron flame (spoiler based!!):
1. I liked the ending and agree although heart wrenching I think it was ingenious.
2. I think Nicole is right about the being based in Basgiath for the future too. Makes me think logistically how will they uproot from Aretia - so much setting up of Riorson house/ Aretia for what?
3. Did Xaden feel like he was dying so not to leave Violet he turned venin? Or did the venin he was facing force him to turn to trade him not running to collect Violet?
4. I think Violet’s second signet will allow her to speak/interact with the dead? Benefitting for the purpose of more information about the Venin to save Xaden/ kill them all off eventually.
5. I think maybe Violet might develop 3 signets.
6. I got bored with the whole mountain trek section because the fliers still hated the riders afterwards it didn’t force them to respect/ integrate better with each other.
7. I loved the addition of the runes and their functions. Loved how Xaden gave her the daggers with them in the 1st book and they had more functions than just being suited for her to use in combat. Wish we had a scene with him teaching her to draw runes directly.
8. Although I loved the spice I also agree with Nicole that the throne scene was a bit weird. I thought the whole thing didn’t happen at first because we span afterward to him against the table with white knuckles. I thought it was some inntinsic related mindfun (if that makes sense😂) and had to reread to say oh it actually did happen physically!
I want to ask you, why do you think there might be a 3th signet? I feel like I'm missing something you noticed.
@@rocio_mb I think she will get two signets when she begins channelling from Andarna as she is a special/immensely powerful dragon. One will be something physical/elemental maybe like mending magic/amplifying signets as she always wants to help others . I also thought another signet will be transcendental related because of her need of information so dreamwalking/speaking with souls or dead people/resurrection. Hope that explains my thoughts been thinking and rereading iron flame for answers!
I agree with your second thought of a signet, and I think that would be so helpful. Cant't wait for next book! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I think there’s potential that Vi can have 2-4 signets. She has two dragons and could potentially get 2 signets each dragon but I have a feeling RY probably won’t go that route but hey we don’t know much about Vi’s family 🤷♀️
@@gigiooo10 yeah I agree since my last comment I think perhaps 2 or 3 signets max but maybe extra abilities due to her either being part venin or related to the gods in some way.
Also can we talk about why violet didn't talk about seeing Liam and how that doesn't happen????
*****SPOILERS DONT NOT READ IF YOU HAVENT FINISHED!!!!********* So did anyone else pick up on the venin are constantly aware of magic power and called to draining that power (jack basically says so when Xaden goes to ask about cure). Violet is the strongest magically powered rider on the continent because she has two dragons (she even constantly talks out how she herself can feel the huge amount of power she holds) that is such huge foreshadowing that Xaden just being around her is inevitable going to be painful to him because with him having turned more into a "I don't care if you don't necessarily want this it will keep you safe type" of guy I think he's going to leave at least for awhile until violet figures out how to heal him. (see the vampire academy series for a similar trope) and then that also makes me think that he is going to drain someone that we the readers care about, along with the characters and it will be another source of turmoil for violet and Xaden once he's healed. Also as we saw with jack apparently once you're venin clearly your dragon and the bond doesn't mean as much otherwise he wouldn't have killed his dragon and lived, with that being said that makes it so Xaden can leave without Sagle.
I don't believe Tarens old rider is alive and Venin. I believe he is truly gone since Jack and Xaden are still bonded to theirs. But Jack said something similar to what Varrish said about controlling their dragons. I think Varrish was venin too. But he for sure is dead since he was killed by the correct weapon.
Xaden is giving Anakin Skywalker turning to the dark side to save Pademe
I thought the exact. same. thing.
This makes me want to throw up bc your so right
We just don't no enough about Venin and that's what I'm excited for in the next book is understanding Venin. And when Xadens mom is going to pop they didn't just throw that nugget out for no reason
My feeling on the “recovered” language is that Basgiath becomes a battleground and is at least partially destroyed, they’re recovered from the wreckage, and X&V’s love story is so important to the history (especially now that he is venin) that J included it …. maaaaybe bc they become king and queen BUT not getting too far that way yet 😅
I definitely think they are king and queen of teraindor
Absolutely loved this review, plus I immmediately subscribed!!!! You two are so nice! I’ll have to check out more book reviews. It came out in my birthday month last year and I’ve just returned from vacation and this book was still on my kindle waiting to be continued to be read where I had left off at the start of my vacation, so I devoured the rest of the chapters in a few days. I just did a search for the book reviews and man the subjects on this one and Fourth Wing and sometimes the author herself, I guess the audience is so-so on it. Some praise her, some really diss by saying it’s the worst. I’m so excited for the tv series
WELCOME TO THE COMMUNITY!!! So glad you're here :)
Yes at 1 hour and 41 when you say major prophacy vibes .... i was thinking this when i woke up this morning all of it screams prophecy... and lilith adds to it when she says something along the lines of every thing thats has happened was to get you to this very moment before she died 😊
I just need to know where everyone else was while Xaden was dying?
1:17:30 in one of the final scenes jacks dragon was described as its eyes having changed colors too. Maybe when arises becomes be in there dragon is ultimately affected.
Violets second signet might be she can give power back to the earth as that’s the opposite of her taking power from the sky for her lightning! Andarna says natures likes all things in balance! This will also be the cure to save xaden! 😬
Ok hear me out I haven't seen this theory but Rebecca did confirm in an interview that Violets 2nd signet did manifest in iron flame. I think Violet can see through other peoples eyes, like kind of hop into other bodies for a moment. Because.... 1. When she looks through Andarna’s eyes at one point she can see through her vision. 2. As Violet is putting the pieces together for Xadens 2nd signet she mention that at her core she needs to know what's happening with everyone/ needs to know what's going on with everyone and that would tie with her scribe self needing to know everything as well 3. When her mom dies there's a moment where she doesn't know if it's Brennan saying something or if it was herself (and signets do manifest in high stress emotional situations). 4. There's a moment during one of the saucey scenes for like one sentence when it seems like it changes from Violets internal dialogue to Xaden’s (not in italics) almost like she jumps into his pov for a moment. Soooo... Just throwing that out there.
Like just imagin how bad ass would it be if she could use the signets together and hop into a venin and use lightning from the inside out to kill it🤔
Did everyone miss Nolon said "It's hard to fix a soul" when he was talking to Varrish??? Xadens soul is going to get fixed!!!! He will live cuz they fix his soul!
1:15:47 See the crazy thing is about her dads research is even violets mom said that she knew the ward would be messed up because violets dad had set the journals were false. It could have been very likely that he had private documents or maybe the journal her mom gave her came from her dad. It was kind of randomly thrown in there.
In regards to second signet, did it strike anyone besides me odd that Violet temporarily gained Xadin's second signet when they were having fun time in that chair??????
Ohhh. You're right.
my question with naolin being a venin is that wouldn’t be still be bonded to tairn? like jack and baide were still bonded and it seems as though sgaeyl and xaden still are. so why would tairn be able to bond violet if naolin was a venin and not dead..
also i am confused about how jack was able to coordinate the plan to take down the wards if he was under basgiath observation all the time? how did he communicate with the other venin outside the wards?
I have 2 theories. One could be choice and Tairn decided not to keep the bond with Naolin. but Sgaeyl and Baide did. The other theory is maybe Naolin was venin but ended up dying later in a skirmish, which is why he took so long to bond again.
37:51I think violet and xaden are going to die at the end or at least be somewhere that then can't be reached, we know the story is violets pov but jesenia is the one truly telling it
I think Andarna is still somehow royal just because the color purple is considered a symbol of royalty. Love that you released this episode and I can listen to you two while my friends still work on finishing the book. I was the first one in the group with finishing it in two days! So so so good
I was thing about the same thing about Andarna.
1. She killed Varrnish’s Dragon which killing dragon on dragon was very dishonorable for dragon kind, even though there was a very good reason you would think there would still be a punishment for Andarna.
2. Andarna is still very small so how in the world did she kill Varrnish’s Dragon, because in the beginning of the fight she got tossed like a bean bag and Violet talked about how small she is, and how she was going to die in the fight. So what really happened in that cave.
3. She told Violet she has wait over 600 years for a rider like her (even though that can mean anything) but it seems Andarna has picked violet not only for brains but something much deeper.
I have a feeling she’s going to be the most powerful dragon because she might be royalty but also because she is supposedly the only dragon on her kind. Also if Andarna picked Violet for being different then maybe Vi will become royalty somehow, which RY gives hints when Vi was of the Throne while Xaden was you know lol.
I finished the book 36 hours ago and can NOT get over the whole Xaden's just chillin in her bed in the last chapter... This is wrecking me!! Going to have to re-read 20 times until book 3 😭😭😭😭
I felt THE EXACT SAME WAY about Violet drinking the poison/Tairn and signet blocker!! Like you drink it and learn what it smells like, then you’re smart enough to not drink it when it’s given to you a second time, then you just forget all of that and drink it when it’s given to you a third time!!? That was the only part of this book I was annoyed at! Lol I was rolling my eyes so hard 😂
Same!! I was like girl you remembered what it smelled like the second time what are you doing?! 🤣
I saw a comment saying that the first two times it was in water and the third time it was in juice to kinda of trick her because the juice would kind of hide the smell of the signet blocker. Which makes sense but I also believe that literally a few seconds before that they had all accomplished such an insane mission that Vi just had a lapse in judgment.
I think you have to remember that up to this point Violet views Nolon as 100% trustworthy. At the beginning of FW he’s been mending her for the past five years. She views him as a protector/healer/friend and so her guard is down with him. Even though as the reader I was thinking, “No, don’t drink that” I totally understand why she did. She doesn’t think he would ever harm her. If it had been anyone else I think she probably would have been suspicious or more cautious and not just drank it
Yes... I mean I was expecting her to be smart enough. Like imagine someone coming in the dark out of nowhere and handing you a drink! Would u drink it?! Noo. But she did bcz it was nolon n.she knew him and trusted him ever since she was a kid ... yh. But still wierd 😂😂😂
Iron flame made me realize that nothing is casually mentioned 😂. The mention of Xadens mom and she left after he was ten because the heir reached a certain age..feels like total bs and something told to Xaden so he wouldn’t ask questions about it. Violet even asks are you an only child? I think the mom left pregnant with another child in case the navarre govt found a way to kill xaden. And there would still be a an heir to aretia. But that she will appear in the books I genuinely feel certain.
I have a theory that Bhody is his brother. Vi mentioned way too many times how alike they are.
@@zivileboese7444 It's mentioned in Fourth Wing that Bodhi's mother is Fen Riorson's sister. That's why they look very similar
Currently Finishing ACOTAR series and then moving to throne of Glass. Can’t wait for your deep dives on both. Helping fill the iron flame book hangover with all Sarah J Maas 😂
I really like the book, I just feel, certain reactions and interactions could have been more flushed out because they were so highly anticipated scenes.
Also, I heard so much parts of the audiobook in your voices 😂😂
37:39 I mean, I wasn't paying attention to it but both in Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, before the Chapter 1 even begins, there is a line that said, "The following text has been faithfully transcribed from Navarrian into the modern language by Jesinia Neilwart," which lead me to the thought that maybe all of them really died and Jesinia was the only one who was alive and just retelling their stories.
I don't like seeing the word "recovered" either. 😭😭😭
AHHHH! Two points on the Jack being a venin and why Nolon spent so much time trying to mend him! I think the two strongest voices pushing Nolon to do this was Varrish and Violet's mom. Varrish had conversations about Jack with Nolon (albeit vague) but in on of the correspondence bits at the beginning of a chapter was Nolon writing to Violet's mom saying basically that it wasn't going to work.
Here's my theories!
1: Varrish was a background person for Book 1 that never made it onto the page, but he definitely kept an eye on Jack because he wanted Jack to be his protege, not Dain. A side theory to this goes to the "How can a venin still be bonded to a dragon" bit. Correct me if I'm wrong but both Jack's and Varrish's dragons are orange. Maybe certain color dragons have certain characteristics and that's how they chose who to bond with. Jack was a power hungry "gotta be first/the best" guy, and Varrish has that similar characteristic. Varrish needs to be in control, he needs to know all of the information, he needs to be on top. Maybe the orange dragons have those same characteristics. Both black dragons, Tarin and Codagh, are older, wiser, stick-to-the-rules type dragons. Maybe by the time Jack's dragon realized he was going venin, it was too late and Jack had a control on the dragon, like how Violet was overwhelmed by Tarin's emotions, but because Jack was stronger once venin, his emotions influenced his dragon.
2: Violet's mom was involved in this whole "mend Jack's mind" deal, but why? Because of Violet. The only reason Xaden didn't kill Violet in Book 1 was because the promise he made her mother. But for her mom, he was still the evil POS son of the rebellion leader and couldn't be trusted. She probably guessed that out of the riders who could turn venin, the top candidate would be Xaden on his path for revenge. (Obviously she didn't know the real him, but yeah). When she realized Violet was falling for him, she probably wanted to find a way to make sure she didn't turn venin, but if she did, her mom needed to know she could get her daughter back, because as the excerpt from the letter between Violet's mom and dad said, the only reason her mom would die would be for her children. But she couldn't just up and tell Violet all of these things, so she needed to do this in secret.
This is with me only having read the books once each, and having only finished Iron Flame last night (aka 3 am) so there might be stuff wrong here but this is where my head's at!
Did anyone notice that in chapter 9 on page 78 Markham said "The last gryphon flier..." ? He didnt use word "rider" like everyone else in Navarre, insted used word "flier" as gryphon flieres call themselves. What do you think about it?
The venin want to capture Violet, as a bait for Tairn. Because Naolin is the head of the venin/a general and wants to get to Tairn
I just finished the book! Wow a lot fricken happened in that novel! Can someone please explain what happened with the wardstone when General Sorrengail came to save Violet? A second read is definately needed cause I didn't quite understand the whole Imbuing deal with the wardstones...
I think an iron flame Christmas theme might work, baby Andarna and Tairn outfits?? Dad as Xaden, Lexi can have a braid in her hair. Dragon wrapping paper maybe and gifts that revolve around like castles you can scale, dragons, or like pokemon could even work for this there's lots of dragonny pokemon, you can make the different signets and gifts creatively work for your decorations or baubels kinda? xx
I think in terms of the feathertails and the lore and research from Violets dad, it might be explored later with the multiple times in the book where the hatching grounds were mentioned for both Basgaith and Aretia.
I think Andarna is like a transparent crystal or prism. A prism or just white light will have all the colours together and I think thats why she can change her collor....also, didn't the book say that the pillar for the barrier had runes that looked like the shape of diamonds? Diamonds representing the 7th dragon perhaps?
13:25 for the spoilers onwards part 😉
First off, thank you both so much for reminding me there are 3 more books! That ending in IF had me devastated and crying…
Spoilers - while I did feel the book was a bit too fast paced and that a lot of info was dropped on us, it makes me think she is setting up for a full on saving the world with the support the runes, Violent, the other locations (Isles, etc) as well as the Gryphon fliers. I think it will be all of them to save Xaden and in the next books she will need to dive deeper in to the above points to have the 5th book end happily.
*RY always said she was a hopeless romantic so I’m not sure if this will end with a tragedy like Romeo & Juliet or if they will live on and their grandkids are reading the history books about them… but Xaden and Violet are definitely end game and no one can tell me differently! ❤️
So are we assuming Naolin’s bond broke with Tairn if he’s a venin? And that Xadens bond is now broken. (He says that Sgeagl had been unusually quiet since the battle) otherwise I’m confused as to how tairn would bond with violet? They don’t bond with more than one human at a time. That’s what I’m most confused about.
Y’all can we talk about how Xaden call him and Violet end game in the book! In the throne room scene (❤) he tells her they are end game. Which both gives me hope and scares the living shit out of me. I am hoping it means they living happy ever after ( maybe as king and queen Tyrrendor?) but something tells me that this could also means they end up dead which makes me sick to my stomach.
Apparently RY likes Happy Endings for the main couple, So I would say that means they ultimately live in the end. They probably go through hell and back to get there though.
Okay but one more thing. The Sage kept saying that they would pull the wards down themselves because of love...i think that still hasnt happened.