I’m just loving this exploring an learning about output transfers. My thinking so far is keeping it simple with just the right amount of high quality parts. Tube synergy ran at the proper voltages. An yes buy the Best OPT your wife will not leave you over lol. Thanks Skunkie you are greatly appreciated 🌹
I'm enjoying the r300 . It's a great learning experience for someone like me who don't know much, but to see what each stage does and to see before and after results . Thank you again
Indeed Steph , installing these OPT's in your own designs will be far more revealing and guide as well your designs , ...........a good sounding diy amp of yours with the simple but honest Edcores may even bloom open like a beautifull flower does in the sunshine .. Waiting fot that experience ...
Thanks Stephe another great video!👍😃👍! Fascinating seeing the effects of different o.p.t's on the electrical & sonic performance of these amps! Bravo with the yellow spot showing where your mouse pointer is when you demo the response plots! Geez! A simple, effective idea someone should have done years ago! Shame about the 'wonky wobbly wubbleyews' I guess, but we've all seen that they STILL have more problems further back in the chain, despite all the existing mods that you've done. It's incredible that o.p.t they used ever got into their parts list! For the sudden collapse in frequency response of that magnitude & one that drags the B+ power rail down to affect the other channel is pretty scary, &, well, negligent. They've either tested it & not cared, or they haven't tested it & just blindly punched out vacuum tube appliances from their factory. I dunno, but either scenario just aint good. It's gunna be fun to see how the fancy o.p.t's go in your diy 300B! It IS worthy of them! What are you predicting will change? - The ottom end odd harmonics? That subtle clarity of that 'sparkling' sound you listen out for in one of your 'test tracks'?
Wilsenton and China Hifi needs a check and balance system and Skunkie is the counter weight. With out skunkie these companies can careless about the consumers. Skunkie is the necessary good in this Chinese tube amp market. Thankyou skunkie!
Great video. Looking forward to see the swap of the Output-Transformers on your 300B. Would be great if you also can name some High-End Main-Choke and Powertransformers in that upcoming video. So some DIYers can pimp all the heavy iron stuff in one shot. Cheers Stefan
Hi, wonderful. Keep the videos coming. I have a SE 45 tube amp project (a pair of monoblock amps). I like the idea of using tango OPT but they are expensive. Certainly I don't have the resources to try multiple OPTs to work out which is the right one to use. Which OPT do you think is the most appropriate? Thanks David
You cannot fix something that is fundamentally wrong. the point must be stay away from chinese tube amps and build your own diy😅 great video it is very educational👏
It’s crazy what crap these chifi companies are throwing out. Stephe, you mentioned investigating iron upgrades for the A10/12 and A50. I know you’re quite happy with the iron in the a10/12 do you think there would be much benefit from spending $600 on better iron?
Without doing it, yeah I can't say for sure there is enough improvement. But I do know the Skunkie mod A50 is the same circuit I used in my DIY amp, but my DIY amp still sounded better and I assumed it was the iron.
I'm pretty sure we understand the Allure of these products . Bang for the buck, unfortunately we forget the old adage, "you get what you pay for". What we have here is a chassis and a box of low quality parts.
This is a pretty cool tool - pretty impressive stuff! If only this tool were available 10-20 years ago during the electron valve resurgence, before the valve factories shut-downs hit new valves production. It's ironic though that Chinese valves have reached performance levels similar to those of the west but transformers' performance (which realistically takes a lot less infrastructure and knowledge to achieve) is still abysmally bad... Now, what will happen when they realize this is their products' major weakness and they start improving them?
Using the R300 as a power amp rather than an integrated with a nice preamp - will this bi-pass the front end problems or help at all ( even after your power and rectifier work arounds) ?
I appreciate all your efforts on this amplifier. I do own this amp unfortunately. I think I will be selling it. Tis the season to sell and buy? 😀 I recently purchased a MUZISHARE R100 300B 845 amp and it is glorious compared to the Willsenton r300 amp. Of course it has a lot more power, but I can tell it has to be a much better design top to bottom. Maybe someday you can check out one of these 211/845/805 amps on the channel, I am truly impressed with this one. I actually sent back a nice Purifi class D amp since this Muzishare 845 amp had everything it had and more!
So if they had issues ,are they going to compensate the suckers [point of view of the Chinese sellers] the unfortunate customers who got and paid for the the original ?
Good cheap 300B amps include the Japanese kit Elekit TU-8600 and TU-8900. These r well designed and don’t hv inherent unfixable issues like weak output transformers, under-driving first stages, etc
I totally agree. I built a TU-8900 and it sounds amazing. You just have to upgrade the coupling caps and the volume pot (to a TKD) and use NOS Sylvania 12BH7s. Fit and finish is exemplary and the manual is super detailed.
Compared to problematic Chinese amps, which are considered cheap, the Elekits are not really expensive, and of high quality. Over the years I built a number of English kits (and I also built several amplifiers from scratch (all tubes), and my Elekit was the most straightforward and the most fun to assemble. That kind of quality and care comes at a price of course.
very instructive.Thank You. The Chinese stuff really is low quality. Exception is equipment designed,specified and supervised by Europeans. eg Vincent, Prima Luna.
I understand and didn't mean to cast any shade. But compared to the more reputable 300B amps on the market this one is much cheaper, which goes a long way to explaining the quality. I'm a huge fan of DIY amps and there are a few really good 300B options on the market for maybe 25% more than this unit. @@alaingingras7224
It might be interesting to see what Schade feedback would do in the circuit rather than the global feedback. Are the cans for the transformers actually filled with gravel? If so could you open them up, dump out the gravel and put in the Edcors? Looking at the pics inside this thing shows that you've got a fighting chance to make circuit changes, but why? Typical Chinese construction with pretty shiny parts but with the AC filament twisted pair bundled together tightly with the DC wiring... ugh. On a completely unrelated subject, is it just me or does Willsenton sound like a fake name that Chevy Chase or Dan Aykroyd would have made up on the spot on SNL back in the day? "Your name sir?" "Hi, I'm John Willsen... ton and this is my associate, Gurn Blansten."
There is also epoxy, no way to empty the cans. And this circuit design is so weird, I don't think Schade feedback would work and even if it did, a DHT or any triode amp, shouldn't need feedback to end up with reasonable THD.
I'm going to start calling these amplifiers "Tofu Dreg" amplifiers. Tofu dreg construction is a huge problem in China where they build really pretty buildings that literally start to fall apart in a few years due to poor concrete, poor construction methods and crazy stuff like putting plastic bottles into floors before they pour the concrete in order to save money. Entire apartment buildings have collapsed killing scores of people because of this kind of thing. Thanks for putting this info out to people so they can steer clear.
Chinahifi I know you’re monitoring this site. I bought both the r300 & r8, let me tell you… you’re thieves! You put these crappy amps out knowing they were junk and that you were not going to stand behind your product. I did talk to the local DA (Sacramento, California) about filling a complaint for bad business practices… They are looking into whether or not they can pursue a lawsuit against you.
I have a feeling that it si not only the OPT on this amplifier that's problematic .........it woud interesting to even see the " quality " of the power transformer. . Building your own triode 300B amp just like you do as well as many other (skilled ) tube amp builders is the correct way to go ! This amp is a commerrcial illusion..............typical chinese commercial policy , it looks great but it's fake .....something like Nixon said in the sixties : " When we can't do it ...fake it ! " This amplifier is not worth to spend money to buy expensive high quality OPT's , these may "amplify " even MORE the shortcommings of the amplifier itself , ...... this kind of amplifier is designed by people who do not have and lack the vast knowledge of what tube technology is realy about . Besides the honest , neat and informative experiences to try those far better output transformers witch could be realy interesting ..... Keep up the good work. Kind regards
27:41 And what about the poor guy that will buy this piece of junk? Some of these supposedly "low cost" valve amps are not even worth buying to use as a chassis alone (I wouldn't pay a tenner for one - sans valves). All their parts are junk, not just the transformers, plus their circuit designs are sometimes plain stupid or unsafe. You get what you pay for and if you want to pay budget price for a valve amp, just don't! A budget valve amp is a contradiction in terms: how can you have a budget device when it's two major components cost over 250 USD a piece and you need a pair of each for stereo? That's is just 1000 USD to start with for major components, not counting labour, not counting research, not counting other parts etc. and that is absolutely bottom of the scale prices. So, for this kind of money, better choose the transistor option and get a killer amp for 2-2,5k USD and be truly happy with it. Now, if you're after a 2A3 amp instead, then things change: you can still have a great 2A3 (or similar) amp at that price but not for 300B which are (and have always been) hugely overpriced and require more expensive transformers.
I’m just loving this exploring an learning about output transfers. My thinking so far is keeping it simple with just the right amount of high quality parts. Tube synergy ran at the proper voltages. An yes buy the Best OPT your wife will not leave you over lol. Thanks Skunkie you are greatly appreciated 🌹
I'm enjoying the r300 . It's a great learning experience for someone like me who don't know much, but to see what each stage does and to see before and after results . Thank you again
Indeed Steph , installing these OPT's in your own designs will be far more revealing and guide as well your designs , ...........a good sounding diy amp of yours with the simple but honest Edcores may even bloom open like a beautifull flower does in the sunshine ..
Waiting fot that experience ...
For info ...
Classic front end tube for a 300B amplifier was ( and still is ) a WE310A - 328A ( 10J12S) or a 5693/6SJ7 penthode ...........
Yes and likely why my cascode worked, emulated a pentode from a pair of triodes.
Thanks Stephe another great video!👍😃👍! Fascinating seeing the effects of different o.p.t's on the electrical & sonic performance of these amps! Bravo with the yellow spot showing where your mouse pointer is when you demo the response plots! Geez! A simple, effective idea someone should have done years ago!
Shame about the 'wonky wobbly wubbleyews' I guess, but we've all seen that they STILL have more problems further back in the chain, despite all the existing mods that you've done. It's incredible that o.p.t they used ever got into their parts list! For the sudden collapse in frequency response of that magnitude & one that drags the B+ power rail down to affect the other channel is pretty scary, &, well, negligent. They've either tested it & not cared, or they haven't tested it & just blindly punched out vacuum tube appliances from their factory. I dunno, but either scenario just aint good.
It's gunna be fun to see how the fancy o.p.t's go in your diy 300B! It IS worthy of them! What are you predicting will change? - The ottom end odd harmonics? That subtle clarity of that 'sparkling' sound you listen out for in one of your 'test tracks'?
Hope it cleans up the bass response and if I can get the same THD elsewhere with more power.
Wilsenton and China Hifi needs a check and balance system and Skunkie is the counter weight. With out skunkie these companies can careless about the consumers. Skunkie is the necessary good in this Chinese tube amp market. Thankyou skunkie!
I own both, the Willsenton R300 and R8. Because of all the findings I am done with Willsenton and ChinaHifi.
You forgot to use the legal word "Opinion" for safety even when technically correct.
Great Work as usual
Of topic ...Just got FM Acoustics 300 A plus Musical Paradise MP701-Mk2 ...Beautiful !
Great video. Looking forward to see the swap of the Output-Transformers on your 300B.
Would be great if you also can name some High-End Main-Choke and Powertransformers in that upcoming video.
So some DIYers can pimp all the heavy iron stuff in one shot.
Cheers
Stefan
Hi, wonderful. Keep the videos coming. I have a SE 45 tube amp project (a pair of monoblock amps). I like the idea of using tango OPT but they are expensive. Certainly I don't have the resources to try multiple OPTs to work out which is the right one to use. Which OPT do you think is the most appropriate? Thanks David
Still doing research on this!
You cannot fix something that is fundamentally wrong. the point must be stay away from chinese tube amps and build your own diy😅 great video it is very educational👏
It’s crazy what crap these chifi companies are throwing out.
Stephe, you mentioned investigating iron upgrades for the A10/12 and A50. I know you’re quite happy with the iron in the a10/12 do you think there would be much benefit from spending $600 on better iron?
Without doing it, yeah I can't say for sure there is enough improvement. But I do know the Skunkie mod A50 is the same circuit I used in my DIY amp, but my DIY amp still sounded better and I assumed it was the iron.
This process is really turning out to be very interesting
Gosh, the stock OPT was dreadful
Yeah, I have never seen anything like it and was confused for a while what would even do something like that!
I'm pretty sure we understand the Allure of these products . Bang for the buck, unfortunately we forget the old adage, "you get what you pay for". What we have here is a chassis and a box of low quality parts.
Enjoyable posts. Is there a relatively inexpensive 300B amp on the market? How about yours? What would you have to have if you sold it?
No, there is not an inexpensive 300B amp on the market that is any good from what I have seen.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Thanks for the reply. I suppose that means yours is not for sale or has already been sold?
It means any 300B amp I have for sale will not be inexpensive. The output transformers I used cost more than a Reisong A50 does.
This is a pretty cool tool - pretty impressive stuff! If only this tool were available 10-20 years ago during the electron valve resurgence, before the valve factories shut-downs hit new valves production.
It's ironic though that Chinese valves have reached performance levels similar to those of the west but transformers' performance (which realistically takes a lot less infrastructure and knowledge to achieve) is still abysmally bad... Now, what will happen when they realize this is their products' major weakness and they start improving them?
Has all the problems been solved on the WILLSENTON R300 PLUS model the same way as the R8 has been? 🤔
No, not at all. I do give a thumbs up on the latest version of the R8. I can not recommend buying any of the R300 models, including the plus version.
Thankyou 🙏
Using the R300 as a power amp rather than an integrated with a nice preamp - will this bi-pass the front end problems or help at all ( even after your power and rectifier work arounds) ?
No, the pre-in just bypasses the volume control.
I appreciate all your efforts on this amplifier. I do own this amp unfortunately. I think I will be selling it. Tis the season to sell and buy? 😀
I recently purchased a MUZISHARE R100 300B 845 amp and it is glorious compared to the Willsenton r300 amp. Of course it has a lot more power, but I can tell it has to be a much better design top to bottom.
Maybe someday you can check out one of these 211/845/805 amps on the channel, I am truly impressed with this one. I actually sent back a nice Purifi class D amp since this Muzishare 845 amp had everything it had and more!
I have been impressed with the quality of the Muzishare products!
So if they had issues ,are they going to compensate the suckers [point of view of the Chinese sellers] the unfortunate customers who got and paid for the the original ?
I think we know the answer to that question.
I would like to see a ''camera''inside a Chinese transformer's copper going green over the years ?months?@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Good cheap 300B amps include the Japanese kit Elekit TU-8600 and TU-8900. These r well designed and don’t hv inherent unfixable issues like weak output transformers, under-driving first stages, etc
I totally agree. I built a TU-8900 and it sounds amazing. You just have to upgrade the coupling caps and the volume pot (to a TKD) and use NOS Sylvania 12BH7s. Fit and finish is exemplary and the manual is super detailed.
Calling those cheap, is somthing....
Compared to problematic Chinese amps, which are considered cheap, the Elekits are not really expensive, and of high quality. Over the years I built a number of English kits (and I also built several amplifiers from scratch (all tubes), and my Elekit was the most straightforward and the most fun to assemble. That kind of quality and care comes at a price of course.
The Willsenton solution: shoot the messenger (Skunkie).
Yup.
Why not just paint all three cans the same colour?
I wouldn’t waste ISOs on this thing. These transformers are for heirloom builds, or when you know you will take them to the grave when you checkout.
This was my opinion as well.
As always, the weakest link problem.
very instructive.Thank You. The Chinese stuff really is low quality. Exception is equipment designed,specified and supervised by Europeans. eg Vincent, Prima Luna.
What's the use of spending $$$$ just to have to ''remake'' the unit ?!
This amp costs more like $.
What I meant is 2000 $CDN is to me $$$$@@TheRealAudioDidact
Yeah whether something is $ or is $$$$ varies a by the person. $1500 for a piece of audio gear feels like at least $$$ to me.
I understand and didn't mean to cast any shade. But compared to the more reputable 300B amps on the market this one is much cheaper, which goes a long way to explaining the quality. I'm a huge fan of DIY amps and there are a few really good 300B options on the market for maybe 25% more than this unit. @@alaingingras7224
It might be interesting to see what Schade feedback would do in the circuit rather than the global feedback. Are the cans for the transformers actually filled with gravel? If so could you open them up, dump out the gravel and put in the Edcors? Looking at the pics inside this thing shows that you've got a fighting chance to make circuit changes, but why? Typical Chinese construction with pretty shiny parts but with the AC filament twisted pair bundled together tightly with the DC wiring... ugh.
On a completely unrelated subject, is it just me or does Willsenton sound like a fake name that Chevy Chase or Dan Aykroyd would have made up on the spot on SNL back in the day? "Your name sir?" "Hi, I'm John Willsen... ton and this is my associate, Gurn Blansten."
There is also epoxy, no way to empty the cans. And this circuit design is so weird, I don't think Schade feedback would work and even if it did, a DHT or any triode amp, shouldn't need feedback to end up with reasonable THD.
I'm going to start calling these amplifiers "Tofu Dreg" amplifiers. Tofu dreg construction is a huge problem in China where they build really pretty buildings that literally start to fall apart in a few years due to poor concrete, poor construction methods and crazy stuff like putting plastic bottles into floors before they pour the concrete in order to save money. Entire apartment buildings have collapsed killing scores of people because of this kind of thing. Thanks for putting this info out to people so they can steer clear.
Basically, a total rebuild like the R8’s. Lol
Worse: at least the R8 I was just replacing ALL the parts inside, this one needs a redesign too.
7:05 only respond if they are patreons/donors 😂😂😂
Chinahifi I know you’re monitoring this site. I bought both the r300 & r8, let me tell you… you’re thieves!
You put these crappy amps out knowing they were junk and that you were not going to stand behind your product.
I did talk to the local DA (Sacramento, California) about filling a complaint for bad business practices…
They are looking into whether or not they can pursue a lawsuit against you.
And their "solution" was an open letter to Skunkie Designs on Stereo.net and FB threatening legal action against me for being a whistleblower...
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics I didn't know that! Unbelievable behavior from Wilsenton and shame on them!
I have a feeling that it si not only the OPT on this amplifier that's problematic .........it woud interesting to even see the " quality " of the power transformer. .
Building your own triode 300B amp just like you do as well as many other (skilled ) tube amp builders is the correct way to go !
This amp is a commerrcial illusion..............typical chinese commercial policy , it looks great but it's fake .....something like Nixon said in the sixties : " When we can't do it ...fake it ! "
This amplifier is not worth to spend money to buy expensive high quality OPT's , these may "amplify " even MORE the shortcommings of the amplifier itself , ...... this kind of amplifier is designed by people who do not have and lack the vast knowledge of what tube technology is realy about .
Besides the honest , neat and informative experiences to try those far better output transformers witch could be realy interesting .....
Keep up the good work.
Kind regards
27:41 And what about the poor guy that will buy this piece of junk? Some of these supposedly "low cost" valve amps are not even worth buying to use as a chassis alone (I wouldn't pay a tenner for one - sans valves). All their parts are junk, not just the transformers, plus their circuit designs are sometimes plain stupid or unsafe. You get what you pay for and if you want to pay budget price for a valve amp, just don't! A budget valve amp is a contradiction in terms: how can you have a budget device when it's two major components cost over 250 USD a piece and you need a pair of each for stereo? That's is just 1000 USD to start with for major components, not counting labour, not counting research, not counting other parts etc. and that is absolutely bottom of the scale prices. So, for this kind of money, better choose the transistor option and get a killer amp for 2-2,5k USD and be truly happy with it. Now, if you're after a 2A3 amp instead, then things change: you can still have a great 2A3 (or similar) amp at that price but not for 300B which are (and have always been) hugely overpriced and require more expensive transformers.