Hello! I am a brazillian rpg fan and i am currently tying up the Gumshoe sistem to a brazillian rpg named Ordem Paranormal, whichs biggest weakness is that of a poor thought out investigation sistem. This video helped a lot with my homebrew, thank you!
To be fair I think it's VERY close. The only thing that is not the same is the tiers of clues. But he always gives the clues and you can also use the points to help with the final score to get the clue. All and all, I disagree it is a poorly thought through system. Em todo caso, to tentando aprender a mestrar pra fazer uma sala de RPG de mysterio. Se vc tiver alguma dica, ou algum sistema pra recomendar, eu appreciaria mt :)
I will check it out. My decades long rule of thumb has been, if they need to know, they know. The "clue" will be obvious. Use it with any system here. It's the "bingo bonus" or deeper clues they need to roll on.
Glad it was helpful! I have several other Gumshoe videos and articles you can read over at www.zoargamegeek.com/Roleplaying-Games/ I just posted one on its setting The Esoterrorists. I'm writing one right now on how to build an Investigation (Gumshoe's version of an adventure or scenario). After that, I will be reviewing/explaining their brand new book Swords of the Serpentine.
Thanks for the help it was easy to understand your break down. I hope your channel starts to blow up fast. I like your style so far. I subscribed twice already so I can keep up. Im definitely going to look into the gumshoe system to try to keep rpgs fresh changing it up. Good work keep it up.
Thank you. There has been a lot of interest in my Gumshoe video, so I have a series of more Videos on the Gumshoe system premiering over the next few weeks. I just put up a massive article on creating characters in Gumshoe at zoargamegeek.com/gumshoecreate Please go read it.
Great video. Recently got Night's Black Angels which uses this system and have been looking for videos that would help out. This was incredibly helpful.
You're welcome. Its an elegant base system, that does many different genres well between Trail of Cthulhu, Nights Black Agents, and Fall of Delta Green. The lack of videos on it spurred me to make them. I plan on doing some more videos going into greater detail on each step in creating an investigative arc.
There's a detail regarding the failing system of D&D that most DMs and players miss out. There's is fail foward in D&D 5e. PHB 5th, page 174 "To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success-the creature overcomes the challenge at hand. Otherwise, it's a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the DM." So the DM can always give the clue to the characters (to move the story foward or take them in a specific direction), even if they failed the roll, and create a setback (damage, ehxaustion, conditions, whatever)
You are technically correct. Even without that rule, DMs could still use it in that way. But practically speaking, I've experienced (both as a DM and as player) and listened to enough D&D actual plays where its treated as only a failure. This mindset is reinforced through other checks and rolls like attack rolls, saving throws, etc. where the outcome is binary. It's even reinforced through how adventures are written where skill checks create binary outcomes. What I love about Gumshoe is how it starts with the premise that your characters find the clues, but does not dictate how the characters interpret those clues. Thank you for watching and commenting! I have a series of new videos being released on other aspects of Gumshoe over the next 2 weeks.
So in d20 systems, why not just have Players roll. If they Succeed they find the Clue. If they Succeed by more than 5, they get a Bonus Clue. If they Crit they get a 3rd Clue. If they fail by less than 5, they find the Clue, but they get a Minor Consequence. If they Fail my more than 5, they get the Clue, but they get 2 minor (or 1 medium) Consequence. If they roll a Nat 1, they find the Clue, but they get 3 minor (or 2 medium, or 1 major) Consequence. Consequences can be anything that makes the investigation more complicated, or even more dangerous. Including tipping off the suspect that you're closing in on them, giving them time to run, or set up and ambush. etc.
Greetings if you have not seen this message already! I am running a swords of the serpentine campaign and was trying to find ways to make the information and system more accessible to my players. would it be possible to take your write up on your website of zoargamegeek and make it into instructional videos to get more people into the game and system? if not I completely understand, but your write up is the most concise thing I have found in hitting all the necessary elements and I think is near perfect script wise to work from in making a guide series/ mega video. not sure if you'll see this, but i'll try to reach out to you in all forms of which i can find!
I've read your article today and found it very straightforward to understand. Thank you!
Hello! I am a brazillian rpg fan and i am currently tying up the Gumshoe sistem to a brazillian rpg named Ordem Paranormal, whichs biggest weakness is that of a poor thought out investigation sistem. This video helped a lot with my homebrew, thank you!
To be fair I think it's VERY close. The only thing that is not the same is the tiers of clues. But he always gives the clues and you can also use the points to help with the final score to get the clue. All and all, I disagree it is a poorly thought through system.
Em todo caso, to tentando aprender a mestrar pra fazer uma sala de RPG de mysterio. Se vc tiver alguma dica, ou algum sistema pra recomendar, eu appreciaria mt :)
I will check it out. My decades long rule of thumb has been, if they need to know, they know. The "clue" will be obvious. Use it with any system here. It's the "bingo bonus" or deeper clues they need to roll on.
I have been looking a lot into the gumshoe system recently. This video was very helpful and straightforward, thanks!
Glad it was helpful! I have several other Gumshoe videos and articles you can read over at www.zoargamegeek.com/Roleplaying-Games/ I just posted one on its setting The Esoterrorists. I'm writing one right now on how to build an Investigation (Gumshoe's version of an adventure or scenario). After that, I will be reviewing/explaining their brand new book Swords of the Serpentine.
Thanks for the help it was easy to understand your break down. I hope your channel starts to blow up fast. I like your style so far. I subscribed twice already so I can keep up. Im definitely going to look into the gumshoe system to try to keep rpgs fresh changing it up. Good work keep it up.
Thank you. There has been a lot of interest in my Gumshoe video, so I have a series of more Videos on the Gumshoe system premiering over the next few weeks. I just put up a massive article on creating characters in Gumshoe at zoargamegeek.com/gumshoecreate Please go read it.
Great video. Recently got Night's Black Angels which uses this system and have been looking for videos that would help out. This was incredibly helpful.
You're welcome. Its an elegant base system, that does many different genres well between Trail of Cthulhu, Nights Black Agents, and Fall of Delta Green. The lack of videos on it spurred me to make them. I plan on doing some more videos going into greater detail on each step in creating an investigative arc.
Only roll if failure would make the game more interesting.
There's a detail regarding the failing system of D&D that most DMs and players miss out. There's is fail foward in D&D 5e.
PHB 5th, page 174
"To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success-the creature overcomes the challenge at hand. Otherwise, it's a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the DM."
So the DM can always give the clue to the characters (to move the story foward or take them in a specific direction), even if they failed the roll, and create a setback (damage, ehxaustion, conditions, whatever)
You are technically correct. Even without that rule, DMs could still use it in that way. But practically speaking, I've experienced (both as a DM and as player) and listened to enough D&D actual plays where its treated as only a failure. This mindset is reinforced through other checks and rolls like attack rolls, saving throws, etc. where the outcome is binary. It's even reinforced through how adventures are written where skill checks create binary outcomes. What I love about Gumshoe is how it starts with the premise that your characters find the clues, but does not dictate how the characters interpret those clues. Thank you for watching and commenting! I have a series of new videos being released on other aspects of Gumshoe over the next 2 weeks.
So in d20 systems, why not just have Players roll. If they Succeed they find the Clue. If they Succeed by more than 5, they get a Bonus Clue. If they Crit they get a 3rd Clue. If they fail by less than 5, they find the Clue, but they get a Minor Consequence. If they Fail my more than 5, they get the Clue, but they get 2 minor (or 1 medium) Consequence. If they roll a Nat 1, they find the Clue, but they get 3 minor (or 2 medium, or 1 major) Consequence.
Consequences can be anything that makes the investigation more complicated, or even more dangerous. Including tipping off the suspect that you're closing in on them, giving them time to run, or set up and ambush. etc.
If the info is important to the story, just tell them they found it. Don't roll. You don't need a whole 'nother system to know that.
Greetings if you have not seen this message already!
I am running a swords of the serpentine campaign and was trying to find ways to make the information and system more accessible to my players. would it be possible to take your write up on your website of zoargamegeek and make it into instructional videos to get more people into the game and system? if not I completely understand, but your write up is the most concise thing I have found in hitting all the necessary elements and I think is near perfect script wise to work from in making a guide series/ mega video.
not sure if you'll see this, but i'll try to reach out to you in all forms of which i can find!