Wow! What great memories. I learned programming on a SDS Sigma system then worked on a Xerox 9 for several years. The brilliance of the engineering is breathtaking. But no one then working in the field would believe that in 10 years it would all be over thanks to the microchip.
Hi Martin, thanks very much for your feedback on the recent video. I am very glad it brought back some great memories! It sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with the SDS line, that became the XDS line. When doing the research for this, I was surprised at how many systems were made and installed, and how long many lasted. We don't hear too much about the Sigma systems today. I wish we could find more video footage of those great machines. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts! Victor, CHAP
Thanks CHAP. Great work as always in uncovering these gems. A small point: There's no need to edit the sound on the original films. The background noise/music is fine, and adds to original "vibe". Keep up the good work !!
Greetings Head Pox, thanks very much for feedback, it is always appreciated. Your point about original sound tracks is very well taken. On this particular film clip, the background music was flagged by YT as being copyrighted. The film was edited to remove the copyrighted music, so could share this without accumulating unwanted YT flags. That process is not perfect however. We dislike altering the original in any way, unless it significantly improves quality. We may be able to upload an original clip with original soundtrack in the future. YT demonetized our channel back in January (without warning), and multiple "appeals" have been unsuccessful. We only have viewer support through donations at this point. It is a challenging line to walk between providing good historical content and staying within YT's changing policies. We are always trying to improve our content nevertheless. Thanks very much for your support! ~ VK, CHAP
Hi TheDuke013, Good point! Must have been enough of a cost savings to get the accounting department to buy off on a monthly rental cost like that. Would have been interesting to see the cost-benefit analysis, if they ever did one.
I worked on a project about 1989 where a company had a Xerox Sigma machine running an assembly language program on some critical work. The function had not been well documented and the cost of reverse engineering to replace the system was difficult to swallow. An alternative was planned, the assembly language was ported to a VAX assembly language and tested successfully, thus kicking the can down the road another 35 years. It is still running last i heard. I wonder if they will port it to x86 OpenVMS
Hi Ken, it is quite amazing how some of these machines stay running so long. The Living Computers Museum in Seattle, WA (founded by Paul Allen) has a function Sigma 9 computer, but the museum has been closed since covid19. ~ I have never worked with VMS, but have read much about it. Thanks very much for sharing your comment on the Xerox video. : ) VK
Can you imagine how history would have changed if Steve Jobs had not visited Xerox PARC and seen the mouse and graphical user interface system that Xerox had developed.
Some light (pen 😛😛😛) on GUI evolution from drafting schemes and graphs to building UI elements and organizing them into libraries in Xerox Alto. So Alto today Alto looks like summarization of previous UI implementations and researches.
Dear Friends, Tks for sharing ... Just a point to clear, so far I know ...The PDP 10 was a multiuser computer with terminais. Sou far I know the IBM 370 was a batch processing computer. So, eventually was not competitir to either Sigma or PDP10. the other point is the 136M USD price tag you mention. Can you re-check ? I know computer systems in that time were expensive and could have a number of configurations but the 136M price tag looks to much for me. If we update prices it would be half a billion. I doubt that *one* single computer at that time could have that price tag.
Greetings Registos, Thanks very much for your feedback. Regarding the computer price tag for a Sigma 9, you are correct. We used an announcement article from the New York Times, Nov. 5, 1970, which stated the system cost ”$1.76 million dollars.” Not “$176 million,” which is a hideous typo on our part. Good catch. The $1.76 million does equate to the $13 million equivalent cost in today's dollars. (The link to that NYT article is below.) With regard to the other systems mention as competitors, that was based on a Xerox company document that was comparing the different machines to how they would perform in a certain specific application. In targeting the Sigmas to a specific audience, it seems they were looking at other competitor machines that were being sold to the same customer base. The various different machines were not equally technically proficient in all areas, and so not direct competitors with each other in all situations. Perhaps “contemporaries” or “market alternatives” would have been a better, broader term, but your point is very well taken. We appreciate the clarification. Thanks very much. Victor, CHAP. NYT article: www.nytimes.com/1970/11/05/archives/xerox-corp-introduces-sigma-9-computer-unit.html
@@ComputerHistoryArchivesProject OK ... Understood. The competition was not machine to machine but instead client that batch machines that can change into multi user - multitasking machines suchs as Sigma saving money ( lot´s of money ...) and beeing 300% more productive. That aproach is the right aproach if you are introducing a new machine. I am shure that they should have a "business case conversion to each case" .. In 1981 I made downsize of 100% tested Cobol code that was used in main frames for years ( since the older generation of IBM mainframes 360&370 - not shure if the 1401 used Cobol, directly from mainframes Ibm370 and NCR century 100 in CP/M Zilog Z80 processors using Microfocus Cobol compiler. Sigma was not in Angola market but at the time we user a similar machine in University which were 2 Data General Machines which were to a certain extend similar to Sigma. I think Sigma was before 1980 and probably not so mature as the DG was but for what I read it was in the same concept. Tks for sharing this story.
Hi Registos, downsizing Cobol code sounds like quite an undertaking. Very cool. Data General machines were quite an interesting platform too. (someday, hope to find some good video on the early DG systems). Thanks again for your intelligent input on this area of history. : )
Just to be clear "batch processing computer" doesn't mean "single user" computer. In the early 80's, I worked at a bank that ran S/370 computers. We had up to 15 batch jobs, dozens of TSO (Time Sharing Option) users, and hundreds of branches running real-time transactions - either as CICS [Customer Information Control System] or IMS [Inforation Management System] clients, _all at the same time_ ! Yes, there was a legacy background focus on doing "one job" at a time, but that "one job" was just as likely to be coordinating millions of small transactions (while ensuring consistency, recoverability, and traceability), as it was producing an audit report.
@@RottnRobbie Tks for the infm. Yes. In Angola in fact in mid eighties the TAAG, angolan airlines used two IBM370-138´s and they were able to transform this batch machine into a multiuser-multitasking machine using dumb terminals and the angolan team re-wrote the OS using probably a kind of Unix. How they did it ? Well, they went in the printer port, did some kind of hardware modification in a way that the printer port became a Input-Output way and connected to that printer port all the terminals. Then re-wrote the OS and installed the software for management and ticket control. I think that, by doing that they lost the IBM warranties but the work was done by a group of angolan engeniers beeing one of them an IBM programmer working as an extra job, but charging nothing for it (at the time considered one of the best african IBM programmers, unfortunely passed away allready). The machine worked in TAAG for almost 10 years after that. They even installed terminals in Lisbon ( probably in other places ). It was a fantastic job and this means that the 370 had the habilities and power to do multiuser-multitasking jobs wit the right software over it.
Best job I ever had was installing, and looking after the two Sigma 5s at America Airlines training academy in Arlington Tx back in the '70s
Wow! What great memories. I learned programming on a SDS Sigma system then worked on a Xerox 9 for several years. The brilliance of the engineering is breathtaking. But no one then working in the field would believe that in 10 years it would all be over thanks to the microchip.
Hi Martin, thanks very much for your feedback on the recent video. I am very glad it brought back some great memories! It sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with the SDS line, that became the XDS line. When doing the research for this, I was surprised at how many systems were made and installed, and how long many lasted. We don't hear too much about the Sigma systems today. I wish we could find more video footage of those great machines. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts! Victor, CHAP
Thanks CHAP. Great work as always in uncovering these gems. A small point: There's no need to edit the sound on the original films. The background noise/music is fine, and adds to original "vibe". Keep up the good work !!
Greetings Head Pox, thanks very much for feedback, it is always appreciated. Your point about original sound tracks is very well taken. On this particular film clip, the background music was flagged by YT as being copyrighted. The film was edited to remove the copyrighted music, so could share this without accumulating unwanted YT flags. That process is not perfect however. We dislike altering the original in any way, unless it significantly improves quality. We may be able to upload an original clip with original soundtrack in the future. YT demonetized our channel back in January (without warning), and multiple "appeals" have been unsuccessful. We only have viewer support through donations at this point. It is a challenging line to walk between providing good historical content and staying within YT's changing policies. We are always trying to improve our content nevertheless. Thanks very much for your support! ~ VK, CHAP
@@ComputerHistoryArchivesProject Thanks CHAP. I began to think that it was copyright related....What a pain.
Surprised no one was smoking, and those look sketchy as hell to use, but that amount to rent one is just crazy.
Hi TheDuke013, Good point! Must have been enough of a cost savings to get the accounting department to buy off on a monthly rental cost like that. Would have been interesting to see the cost-benefit analysis, if they ever did one.
Outstanding film. Thank you
Hi Chris, thanks very much. We appreciate the kind words. ~ CHAP
I worked on a project about 1989 where a company had a Xerox Sigma machine running an assembly language program on some critical work. The function had not been well documented and the cost of reverse engineering to replace the system was difficult to swallow.
An alternative was planned, the assembly language was ported to a VAX assembly language and tested successfully, thus kicking the can down the road another 35 years. It is still running last i heard. I wonder if they will port it to x86 OpenVMS
Hi Ken, it is quite amazing how some of these machines stay running so long. The Living Computers Museum in Seattle, WA (founded by Paul Allen) has a function Sigma 9 computer, but the museum has been closed since covid19.
~ I have never worked with VMS, but have read much about it. Thanks very much for sharing your comment on the Xerox video. : ) VK
Can you imagine how history would have changed if Steve Jobs had not visited Xerox PARC and seen the mouse and graphical user interface system that Xerox had developed.
The Mother of All Demos set things in motion, not much would have changed, Jobs wasn't the key to all this
Hi Tom Servo, Yes, very true. And some of the SRI staff left to go work at PARC, so there was a continuity thread there too.
very, very cool!
Some light (pen 😛😛😛) on GUI evolution from drafting schemes and graphs to building UI elements and organizing them into libraries in Xerox Alto. So Alto today Alto looks like summarization of previous UI implementations and researches.
Grato!
Dear Friends, Tks for sharing ... Just a point to clear, so far I know ...The PDP 10 was a multiuser computer with terminais. Sou far I know the IBM 370 was a batch processing computer. So, eventually was not competitir to either Sigma or PDP10. the other point is the 136M USD price tag you mention. Can you re-check ? I know computer systems in that time were expensive and could have a number of configurations but the 136M price tag looks to much for me. If we update prices it would be half a billion. I doubt that *one* single computer at that time could have that price tag.
Greetings Registos, Thanks very much for your feedback. Regarding the computer price tag for a Sigma 9, you are correct. We used an announcement article from the New York Times, Nov. 5, 1970, which stated the system cost ”$1.76 million dollars.” Not “$176 million,” which is a hideous typo on our part. Good catch. The $1.76 million does equate to the $13 million equivalent cost in today's dollars. (The link to that NYT article is below.)
With regard to the other systems mention as competitors, that was based on a Xerox company document that was comparing the different machines to how they would perform in a certain specific application. In targeting the Sigmas to a specific audience, it seems they were looking at other competitor machines that were being sold to the same customer base. The various different machines were not equally technically proficient in all areas, and so not direct competitors with each other in all situations. Perhaps “contemporaries” or “market alternatives” would have been a better, broader term, but your point is very well taken. We appreciate the clarification. Thanks very much. Victor, CHAP. NYT article: www.nytimes.com/1970/11/05/archives/xerox-corp-introduces-sigma-9-computer-unit.html
@@ComputerHistoryArchivesProject OK ... Understood. The competition was not machine to machine but instead client that batch machines that can change into multi user - multitasking machines suchs as Sigma saving money ( lot´s of money ...) and beeing 300% more productive. That aproach is the right aproach if you are introducing a new machine. I am shure that they should have a "business case conversion to each case" .. In 1981 I made downsize of 100% tested Cobol code that was used in main frames for years ( since the older generation of IBM mainframes 360&370 - not shure if the 1401 used Cobol, directly from mainframes Ibm370 and NCR century 100 in CP/M Zilog Z80 processors using Microfocus Cobol compiler. Sigma was not in Angola market but at the time we user a similar machine in University which were 2 Data General Machines which were to a certain extend similar to Sigma. I think Sigma was before 1980 and probably not so mature as the DG was but for what I read it was in the same concept. Tks for sharing this story.
Hi Registos, downsizing Cobol code sounds like quite an undertaking. Very cool. Data General machines were quite an interesting platform too. (someday, hope to find some good video on the early DG systems). Thanks again for your intelligent input on this area of history. : )
Just to be clear "batch processing computer" doesn't mean "single user" computer. In the early 80's, I worked at a bank that ran S/370 computers. We had up to 15 batch jobs, dozens of TSO (Time Sharing Option) users, and hundreds of branches running real-time transactions - either as CICS [Customer Information Control System] or IMS [Inforation Management System] clients, _all at the same time_ !
Yes, there was a legacy background focus on doing "one job" at a time, but that "one job" was just as likely to be coordinating millions of small transactions (while ensuring consistency, recoverability, and traceability), as it was producing an audit report.
@@RottnRobbie Tks for the infm. Yes. In Angola in fact in mid eighties the TAAG, angolan airlines used two IBM370-138´s and they were able to transform this batch machine into a multiuser-multitasking machine using dumb terminals and the angolan team re-wrote the OS using probably a kind of Unix. How they did it ? Well, they went in the printer port, did some kind of hardware modification in a way that the printer port became a Input-Output way and connected to that printer port all the terminals. Then re-wrote the OS and installed the software for management and ticket control. I think that, by doing that they lost the IBM warranties but the work was done by a group of angolan engeniers beeing one of them an IBM programmer working as an extra job, but charging nothing for it (at the time considered one of the best african IBM programmers, unfortunely passed away allready). The machine worked in TAAG for almost 10 years after that. They even installed terminals in Lisbon ( probably in other places ). It was a fantastic job and this means that the 370 had the habilities and power to do multiuser-multitasking jobs wit the right software over it.