I had the good fortune to visit the set during filming of "Battle" for a couple of days when I was 14 years old, which of course blew this "Apes" fanatic's mind. Will never forget the thrill of briefly meeting Roddy McDowell, who was drinking juice through a straw, and who asked to see my Polaroid photo of him. On another day, an actor made up as a orangutang, sitting on a rock by himself between takes, began chatting with me in a very friendly way. I later realized it was Paul Williams. Such a nice man. And such a pity that Fox didn't take this movie seriously, because we sure did!
I have a soft spot for this film, sure it is the weakest of the series, but I like the post-apocalyptic pre-Mad Max vibe. Shame they didn't have a bigger budget. Also having John Huston as the Lawgiver is cool.
ya I feel like having it on as background noise while doing other tasks is kind of fun. Sure it has a lot of cosmetic hack jobs, but in a weird way i find it fun to poke at and is a little more entertaining in a silly kinda way
One other thing that goes hand in hand with the discrepancy in the time jump between Conquest and this movie is the ape clothing. Obviously using the original costumes for the ape actors was cost-saving but we're supposed to believe that within 13 years after the fall, the apes had designed and manufactured their own distinctive clothing.
It felt like such a rushed production, but there are moments in this film I really adore. In particular Caesar’s hardships in this movie tug on my feels.
I think your review is pretty spot on. The film has some neat ideas similar to Beneath of the Planet of the Apes but none are fleshed out and there are also too many contrivances. I remember when I first saw it I too was put off at how the apes were all intelligent creatures who could hold clear conversations even though in its predecessor they were all less intelligent. I do though also like the Caesar statue at the end of the film with its symbol of the tear being open to interpretation. I think that the best thing this film accomplished was being a model for what the reboot trilogy did where the ideas and themes that Battle introduced were more fleshed out in our recent trilogy especially with Caesar. Fun fact, the Caesar statue was gifted to Roddy McDowall by Arthur P Jacobs and he kept it the rest of his life. Before he died McDowall donated it to the Motion Picture and Television Fund (MPTF) who then placed it in a rose garden, dedicated to McDowall, at the MPTF hospital and retirement home in Calabasas California where I assume it still resides today
Still think it's better than the Burton film. Dawn and War did this story better but this still has a lot of heart. Roddy McDowell poured his soul into this.
I think someone said it best in a podcast about this movie. (This isn’t word for word, but the gist of it is): “There’s too much going on. There’s two stories with good potential that could have their own movies and stuffing both into one results in a not great execution. I’d love to see them as their own movies…wait we did! This is Dawn and War!”
Fun Fact: Natalie Trundy was in so many Apes films because she was Arthur Jacobs’ wife. She did do a great job though. Also the armory attendant is played by Lew Ayers who is most famous for playing Paul in the original 1930 All Quiet on the Western Front.
And if you see that one Twilight Zone hour long episode in which an exclusionary society doesn’t allow people to escape? I can understand that if Trundy sans makeup was there, why no one would want to…
I loved this film when it came out. I would've been around 11. The finale really satisfied my young mind. Now, as a 62 year old, not so much but I can appreciate it for what it is.
I always found it odd that they had patchy access to technology, but had no problem producing elaborate uniformed wardrobe for the apes which would require pretty sophisticated industry.
Totally agree with your take on McDonald. Even as a kid I thought that was weird to have his brother when they could have just recast. Also when you mention the lack of pull over masks the very shot you feature has a pull over mask in it. The whole feel of Battle was a disappointment. It’s like Saturday matinee kiddie fare. While I do love the poster art - even that makes it look like a comic book cover or kid movie - or a best - a b-grade drive in support. The other thing that used to bug me as a kid was that we’re supposed to accept that the Ape fashion doesn’t change for the next 2000 years 😂
Battle has problems but thematically I think it's really strong. It's conflict isn't the battle itself, it's Caesar realizing that when given the power, apes are as destructive as humans, they aren't as good as he had assumed. I think it's really good.
It shocked me, while watching this video, to realize I last saw this film…holy cow…half a century ago! In its original theatrical run. On the Steel Pier in Atlantic City, NJ. I was a small child but I recall enjoying it. After 50 years I can only recall one line of dialog, it was a good one: “Get up and fight like apes!”
A great review. Although I agree with much of your analysis, nonetheless I love this film. Yes, it is the weakest of the original apes films, but I think there are some great performances (Paul Williams as Virgil, in particular), a good, fast-paced story, and I love that at the end we see that the alternate time line has been firmly established, and it leads in beautifully to the TV series (which I loved). Did they intend that? Of course not, but it does unintentionally set up the alternate time line of the series.
Totally agree on all points, maybe disagree on this being worse than Tim Burton's version. But I still watch it. A bad Apes movies is better than none.
Facing a human cult faction and a militant ape faction seems like a good idea for an Apes movie at first glance. The finished film, I agree, is hollow.
Awesome review and I always found Caesar's son's death underwhelming, just falling off a branch but Roddy McDowall's performance gives a lot of emotion to the scene when he dies on the bed.
I have another interpretation of the final scene: The orango said "only the deads knows the future" and than we see Cesar's statue crying, I think it's a way darker ending, foreshadowing future events
21:05 I always took the ending to mean that apes and men were able to live side by side. Yes, there was that brief bit of conflict between the children, but no one got up in arms about it. It was just kids being kids. Cornelius and Zera’s sacrifice saved the world, and Caesar’s time as a leader reshaped civilization for the better. Imagine the world if Aldo had said “No.” Oh wait, those were the first three movies.
I just wanted to tell you I love your channel. I recently watched the new trilogy and found your channel and I set notifications to all after two videos. I had never seen any of the OG apes movies besides the original and I was so young I didn’t remember it at all and now I am binging the original series after watching your breakdowns. Great work and thank you for getting me to watch them.
Love that so much!! That is exactly why I wanted to start this channel, I'm happy to get more people to watch the original movies and help grow the fanbase. Thanks for watching!!
I read a fan theory that the space virus that killed the cats and dogs both accelerated ape intelligence (so they could so quickly be able to speak and use tools) and inhibited human intelligence and aggression so they readily accepted ape rule. To me, that helps explain some of the state of affairs by the time of Battle.
Now that I think about it the movie could have been really cool if it was Caesar, McDonald and Virgil going on like a quest to find something to help ape city survive while having to deal with Aldo as like a rogue bandit group of gorillas and the mutant they encounter. I guess like Fallout video game quest finding the geck almost.
12:12 I was under the impression that events turned out the way they did in Conquest (re: somehow going from pets dying to enslaved apes) because it’s what happened in the original timeline as Cornelius described it in Escape. I’m curious to hear your take on the scene depicting the footage of Cornelius retelling ape history. When I watched it, it seemed like they changed the lines so that the identity of the ape revolutionary leader is more vague (changed from Aldo to “an ape” or something). Was this just another instance of not thinking that far ahead, and having to retcon? I suppose it could be interpreted as the timeline being changed, wherein the apes’ saviour is changed from Aldo to Caesar, but I don’t think they explicitly say that (except for Dr. Milo/Virgil hinting at it when talking about “changing lanes” in time). Thanks for these, these are great!
I had always decided to throw the timeline out. I pushed it about 200 years into the future, and allow them just to be descendants of other characters. The quick time line made no sense. Push it out, and it flows much better. This allows the time for the deterioration of items. Much in the way Battlefield Earth was set. People were reduced due to necessity, and loss of the ability to maintain their items.
Quite a lot happened to civilization (both human and ape) across the world in between CONQUEST and BATTLE. A mini-series on that time period alone would be great. So many storylines and plot points to dissect. As Caesar said, “What you have seen here today, apes on the five continents (only five?) will be imitating tomorrow.”
I have a couple things to say in defence of some of the points you mentioned: first, the possible recasting of "the black character": This may not be obvious to people today, but in the States in the 70s, this was the first decade where racially minorities were representated as equals throughout the entire decade, and the producers might think it would be a negative statement if they recast the role (some might feel they are saying "He's Black-they all look alike, so no one will notice if it is a different actor". Even if that wasn't the intention, and indeed, many actors are recast for the same character (eg Savvik from Kristie Alley to Robin Curtis in the 80s Star Trek movies), that impression might be left with some). I understand their decision even if the brother idea seems kind of random. As far as Ceasar's story arc, I like the fact that a trusted advisor has to gently help Ceasar along the way. Once "Ape has killed Ape", Ceasar's gears were working, but sometimes a little help comes handy. I don't know-I always liked the happy ending of this movie. It seems that the bad future has been subverted despite the hardship getting there. I always thought the lawgiver's tear of joy at the end highlights that. Like I said earlier, this is an unpopular opinion, but I have always had this as my favourite of the 5 films, and a fitting and optimistic conclusion
I like your appreciation for BATTLE. I've always wished the MacDonald character in BATTLE had been the same character as in CONQUEST, because it would be like Caesar ranked him higher due to MacDonald saving Caesar's life in CONQUEST, and giving him special consideration. I understand that there were two different actors, but this is done very often in movies: George Hamilton replacing Robert DuVall for GODFATHER 3...two different actresses in the two SILENCE OF THE LAMBS....Sarah Connor in the TERMINATOR films...
For the sake of logical reasoning in trying to make inconsistencies of a sci-fi series make sense… I believe when the 3 apes came to Earth in 1973 during *Escape* it changed the timeline of the natural course of events from what we knew to happened in the first 2 films of the franchise. I believe given that state of the apes’ presence on Earth, it began a paradox and igniting the fire they once came from but also altered events and sped up the processing fall of man. For example: Aldo was spoke of in *Escape* to be the first ape to speak and defy a human command, where as we see Aldo in *Battle* , who essentially is nothing like the glorious character we expected him to be, which I believe is safe to assume that is the same character. But these are my thoughts.
I remember the summer this one came out, the local theater had a "Go Ape" marathon with all 5 movies and Battle was the one we were seeing for the first time. I was 12 years old and I remember me and the other kids thought Battle was a let down, we felt it was just slapped together to keep the franchise going but we got to sit in an air-conditioned theater on a hot summer day and enjoy them all. Definitely a good and accurate review, I think your opinion is spot on.
Thanks for mentioning Leonard Rosenman’s film score for this movie too. If you listen to his soundtrack music for this movie, Beneath The Planet of The Apes, Star Trek IV The Voyage Home & Ralph Bakshi’s 1978 The Lord of The Rings, all 4 film scores are basically the same one! I’m sure he’s re-used this music for other movies too. It’s not a bad thing, but I’m amazed no-one ever seemed to notice.😀
A good film but let down by a much tighter budget,ive read the novelization and the battle between ape's and mutants is much more epic and would have been great to see on screen, also after the violence of"conquest" the studio wanted a more family friendly film paving the way for how the tv show would be.
Great & accurate review. - Not to nitpick, but this video contains a rather common error when discussing Aldo; The actor is Claude Akins, NOT Atkins. Not a huge deal, but I notice this a lot when this movie is discussed. Anyway, that's just my own 2 cents. Keep the great videos coming. Subscribed.
I'm definitely going to be reviewing them! Just not until after Kingdom. I'd have to rush through the shows if I did them first and want to give them the same amount of time and effort as my other reviews.
I pretty much agree, it’s bad but I’ll still watch it over Tim Burtons remake any day. For a different take on it you can check out what Marvel did in the 70s with their adaptation in their POTA magazine. It has Breck as the bad guy and a different ending to the lawgiver sequence. One thing you over looked that just screams low budget is the fact that the apes are all dressed just as they were in the first two movies. That was just jarring.
How did all the Apes learn to speak and think about time travel in just 12 years?? It was the only kid friendly movie of the series so most kids liked it. It’s a cowboy vs Indian movie.
I have a huge soft spot for Battle as it was the first apes movie I saw in the cineme on its initial release in the early 70s. This and the two TV shows were "my" apes as a kid before the original and sequels were shown on TV. As kids we'd play as Aldo and Urko shouting "no"! 😅 Its a poorly made movie, but has great ideas, which I enjoy even now. Yes, I get what you are saying about Aldo, but through the eyes of as a kid he was awesome.
I actually found this to be my favourite of the original series. Heard that it was dissappointing, and I got a bit bored in the series after watching Conquest but I'm glad that it turned out the other way now that I saw this. Ceasar was a lot better in this film and so was the general writing. The sets and matte-paintings looked very nice as well. 3/5, entertaining.
Yep, the behind the scenes insight gave me a solid background for the rest of the series. Particularly as “Beneath” was so unremarkable to me upon first viewing that it took me some 20 years to actually watch Escape and beyond…
One of the most underrated films of all time. Not saying it's great, but it's good and has strong characters (including Aldo) and heart. The dynamic between father and son (Caesar and Cornelius) is heart wrenching when young Cornelius is murdered. Also important is the running theme of whether we can actually alter the future, having known the details of what's to come. As for the advanced intelligence of the apes, it can be rationalized that their stature has zoomed ahead due to the plague that hit Earth in 1983. The music for all the originals are way more potent and memorable to me than any of the modern overblown scores. So thankful I was born when I was. When I saw this movie in the theater in 1973, it didn't look "made for TV" at all (pity what today's overblown cartoony CGI actionfests have done to the minds and expectations of modern audiences).
Today's "CGI action fests" (which is not what the new films are in the slightest) have nothing to do with it. Battle just looks bad, the first four don't. That's it.
@@Ape-Nation .I do like the new Apes films, and I agree they're not just CGI actionfests (I was referring to new films in general; the apes ones smartly retain characterizations and the emotional heart of the originals).
Easily the weakest Apes film in the OG series. After the dark and violent tone of Conquest, it was decided that the final film should end on a much lighter tone. So it was a very family-friendly movie, which isn’t a bad thing. But man, you can tell that there was a definite lack of budget by the time this was made. I have the same feelings about the lack of main characters from the previous movie. Kolp could been made far more sinister, rather than a cartoon villain. Aldo bothered me too. At least the original series ends on a vaguely hopeful note.
When I first watched it, I enjoyed it a lot. I liked it more than Conquest, but after a rewatch, I see why it's disliked. It felt like a TV movie. Aldo was a good villain and the Lawgiver was awesome, also Cornelius' death was shocking as I'd never seen a kid killed. Makes me wonder what a 6th film might've looked like.
I agree with most of what you said. My biggest problem with the movie is that Caesar goes to the Forbidden City to look for answers that we as the viewer already have. Paul Williams as Virgil and the ending were great, in my opinion. Fun fact: Both Roddy McDowall and Paul Williams would later voice villains for Batman the Animated Series. Roddy McDowall would voice the Mad Hatter and Paul Williams would do the Penguin. Edit: typos.
4:30 - You: "I think this is below the Tim Burton movie." Me (bangs gavel): "SILENCE! YOU GO TOO FAR!" For those in the comments talking about the "made for TV" look/feel about it... consider that the studio itself was at fault for that, 100%. With each successful Apes movie, the budget for the (demanded for) sequel to follow was slashed like the tires on a sports car in Downtown Baltimore. The original movie made BANK for what it cost them at the time, and they (rightfully) wanted a sequel. But because of non-related box-office duds, the studio cut the budget nearly in half, but expected a massive return on their investment (which, to be fair, they DID kinda get)... and they demanded another sequel, but cut the budget AGAIN. Rince, repeat until Arthur P. Jacobs died, and the franchise with him (well, partially). Just imagine what could have been had the budget NOT been cut, and even if not increased, at least left alone. I'd say they did the best they could with the money they were given to make it. The acting is great (there's no faulting the actors for their performances in any of the original Apes movies), the visual effects decent, the story.... well, okay, that was a bit of a weak spot, but still enjoyable, it had all the action a kid could want, and we all wanted a pet squirrel because Cornelious had one. Myself, I love this movie.... but I also have a real soft spot for campy movies like it. John Huston's portrayal as The Lawgiver was awesome, and (IMHO) perfectly bookends the movie. The ending left a mixed message: Was what we had experienced in the previous 4 movies "set in stone", or "is there hope for the future"? Was the statue of Ceasar crying because it meant a new beginning, or simply a repeat of what we already know? But I like that kind of ambiguity. The entire series made one question if the events were a "set loop", or "did the Apes going back in time, establish a new timeline of events"? Something that Back to the Future would revisit years later. With the most recent trilogy, we can even consider that to be "the original timeline", even though there are some discrepancies. Also, you can choose to either "just watch the movies and be entertained by them", or "do a deep dive to see what you find". To think, or not to think, that is the question. ;) But that Tim Burton/Marky Mark anomaly.... that was nothing more than a proof of concept for make up techniques, which CGI would render a moot point anyway, and to see if there was still interest in the franchise. Never speak of it again.
I remember loving this film the first time I saw it. I have a soft spot for this film too. I understand and respect the criticism. There are deep flaws in the movie . Is it correct that there was a commitment to do the tv series after this movie? My criticism is where was Aldo during the main battle? What happened to all the. Soldiers around the campfire on the fateful night? Why was Aldo so frightened of Caesar in the final scene when he was challenging his authority all throughout the movie ?
The extended cut -- which actually was seen in theaters in foreign countries, if not in America -- is crucial in that the Doomsday Bomb WOULD have been detonated by Alma, as per Kolp's orders, had not Mendez managed to convince her that it ought to be 'venerated' (etc.), this being the seed from which the full-blown insane Bomb-worshiping religion seen in BENEATH had its beginnings. I'll grant you that each film in the series, suffering budget cuts that we can't fathom in our own time, where sequels get higher and HIGHER budgets each go 'round, could each have been better had they had the resources to do what they would have liked to do. But remember: they were cranking these sequels out one per year! PLANET came out in '68 . . . BENEATH in '70 . . . ESCAPE in '71 . . . CONQUEST in '72 . . . and BATTLE in '73, with the TV spin-off series in '74. Remember having to wait for 3 years to see the first sequel to STAR WARS? In the course of a single year, they were able to get a script written, a production team geared up to make the film, a score composed and recorded, and a final product edited and ready for theaters. And all of that on a shoestring budget! Imagine what they could've done with an ever-INCREASING budget, and a 2-year production time, instead? Here are several things about BATTLE that make me appreciate it more and more, despite me finding it to be the 'least favorite' of the original 5 films. Lisa admonishes Cornelius for 'playing War' with a human friend, pretending to be dead after being shot by a stick-wielding boy (all the actual Guns being kept in Mandemus' home/armory). Mandemus insults Aldo -- when the latter goes to his home/armory to get the guns -- about him considering War to be a 'game', etc. Aldo, of course, has actually caused the eventual death of Caesar's son-and-heir, due to having been overheard by the lad as he plotted to overthrow (i.e. "'smash') Caesar. This dynamic -- of Cornelius first PRETENDING to die in a 'war' game, only to actually DIE later on . . . does it not remind anybody else of how Spock, in "The Wrath of Khan," first PRETENDS to die during Saavik's Kobayashi Maru test -- "Aren't you dead?" asks Kirk -- only to actually die saving the ship by copy-catting what Scotty's nephew Peter Preston had done earlier in the film? That STAR TREK scene, of course, was more hard-hitting of a movie, due to the character being so beloved, having been around for 15+ years . . . but the passing of Caesar's son and only Heir was FIRST -- the first ape-on-ape murder, the Cain-and-Abel event for the simian society that had thought itself removed from all possibility of suffering from 'human history' and its inherent flaws and mistakes. "Ape shall not kill ape" -- or, as Caesar insists when talking to MacDonald, "Ape never kills ape." Really, Caesar? The change from CONQUEST's MacDonald to his brother (also referred to just by that shared last-name) has never bothered me. The former character was Gov. Breck's personal; assistant -- almost a 'house-negro' in a way -- and he was the one who undoubtedly went to get that selectively-edited archival footage which Breck showed to Armando when they were interrogating that circus owner. The 'MacDonald in BATTLE was said to have been the Supervisor of the city's ARCHIVES section, and so he would have had access to the archived data tapes stored there, and had undoubtedly been there when his brother showed up that day to get a tape made of selected portions of the Presidential Commission footage from 1973. You'll notice that at no time on that tape, in that CONQUEST scene, is there any mention whatsoever of the ultimate fate of the world as witnessed by Zira and later mentioned to Hasslein (who had been surreptitiously taping her) . . . meaning that Breck himself never seems to be aware of the fact that the world would be destroyed in 3955 in the culmination of a gorilla-instigated war. But MacDonald, I would argue, DID know about it -- he saw the ENTIRE tape when he made his own edited version of it to show to Breck, Kolp, Hoskyns, etc. but kept his own knowledge of the world's fate to himself. Breck rants about his fear that "the world will belong to a planet of apes!" -- NOT that the world will be DESTROYED in less than 20 centuries' time. MacDonald's brother, supervisor of those ARCHIVES, learned -- from his concerned brother -- that those tapes concerned the ultimate fate of the world . . . it's what prompts him to contradict Caesar's confidence that the Earth will sail through space with no worries now that Apes are in control. MacDonald knows that the parents Caesar never knew had spoken of Earth's destructive fate on those tapes -- and it is this that compels Caesar to make a journey into the 'Hell' that once was the city where the Apes had been slaves. In the myths of many cultures, the Hero-figure descends into 'Hell' and communes with his Father -- or with a glorious Ancestor -- such as when Aeneas talks with the ghost of his father Anchises in the AENEID, or when Dante talks with his ancestor Cacciaguida in the PARADISO (etc.) . . . in order to learn about the destiny of his own people. Paul Dehn transposed/adapted this mythic trope into a science-fiction setting, where Caesar's dead parents are able to 'talk' to him -- through their pre-recorded audio-visual record -- and reveal truths about the Future. I was a PLANET OF THE APES fan(atic) from an early age. In high school, I read Dante's INFERNO, in which Dante is guided through Hell by the ghost of the Roman poet Virgil . . . and I sure as hell perked up at that, knowing then why Caesar's smart orangutan pal got his name. After reading the INFERNO -- and then the rest of the DIVINE COMEDY, the PURGATORIO and PARADISO -- I went on to read Virgil's AENEID . . . then Homer's ILIAD and ODYSSEY (which inspired Virgil), etc. Paul Dehn took the baton handed to him by Dante, who got it from Virgil, who got it from Homer, etc. There was more going on in BATTLE than many (most?) fans of the series knew, unless they were as well-read in the Classics as I eventually became -- spurred on by my fascination with the APES series. (continued in my next post . . .)
Continued from above . . . I could go on and on, but I'll end with this: if you take 2004 as the date when BATTLE takes place -- and, myself, I tend to prefer the year 2003, since I think there was only 12 years since CONQUEST (in 1991) until this story, due to a line in the script regarding how long Alma has been in Kolp's service (i.e. 11 years and a number of months) -- then subtract '2004' from the date we see for the Lawgiver scenes that frame the 'story of Caesar' proper, the year 2670 . . . and what number do we get? 2670 - 2004 = 666 . . . the Number of the Beast. Notice that the Lawgiver, preaching from a 'scripture' scroll to his unseen Audience (which we later see to be Human and Chimpanzee children), first says: "In the beginning God created Beast and Man, so that both might live in friendship and share dominion over a world at peace . . ." Unlike the later-written SACRED SCROLLS -- written 1,200 years before PLANET's date of 3955, i.e. circa 2755, or about 85 years after this 'nice' Lawgiver's recital -- this older 'scripture' acknowledges that Man was not a mere 'animal', the soulless "beast Man" whom the later Lawgiver denigrated as "the Devil's pawn . . . the harbinger of Death" -- but credits him with having been a city-building people, etc. Interesting, isn't it, that there are 666 years from the date of BATTLE -- if it indeed is in 2004 -- to the date when the 'nice' Lawgiver recites from Caesar's story in 2670. The 'Beast' he refers to is juxtaposed with Man, implying that the Apes were to be thought of as the 'Beast' in the narrative . . . echoing Breck's defiant answer to Caesar's question as to Why humans turned the Apes from Pets into Slaves: "You are that BEAST, Caesar!" he says, at one point. The beast that must be shackled . . . whipped into submission. "When we hate you, we're hating the dark side within ourselves . . ." One might think that Mandemus' line contradicts this 2004 date for the story, but it doesn't really. He tells Caesar that the Armory has been his home for 27 years . . . not that his home had been their Armory for 27 years. This line tells us that Mandemus had been living in that place for 27 years -- i.e. from the year 1977 or so (or 1976, if you date BATTLE to 2003), and when Caesar decided to practice a strict Gun Control, preventing Aldo and the gorillas from having access to the guns anytime they wished, he chose to use Mandemus' home as their Armory, from no earlier than 1991, the aftermath of the events of CONQUEST. In my own POTA canon/scenario, I like to think that Dr. Lewis Dixon married Stephanie Branton, and they co-authored a book titled something like "VISITORS FROM A PLANET OF APES" . . . and that they had a best-seller, being the closest humans to those celebrity Ape-onauts who'd been murdered so soon after their arrival from Earth's own future . . . and that they went on to use the money they made from the book to buy up a lot of land in the forested region of California that later became the site of Caesar's treehouse "Ape City" -- and it was to that "Dixon Wildlife Preserve" that Caesar led his 'exodus' of Apes out of Breck's city shortly before the Nuclear War erupted. In my scenario, Caesar hoped to meet the Dixons there, eager to learn firsthand from them about their talks with Cornelius and Zira . . . but as their armed Ape Army approached the site, a fracas between some armed gorillas and the people running that DIXON WILDLIFE REFUGE resulted inj Lewis and Stevie being shot and killed . . . and this so enraged Caesar that he then ordered all the guns to be stored in a secure place -- the home in which Mandemus had been living since 1976-or-1977. That place was Mandemus' home for 27 years, but it BECAME the Armory in 1991, and had been an Armory for only 12-to-13 years, depending on whether or not BATTLE is set in 2003 or 2004. The studio forced the production team to calm things down a bit from what they'd done in CONQUEST -- a trend begun with the tacked-on ending of CONQUEST, after the preview audience was so shocked by the brutality portrayed at the end -- i.e. Breck getting pummeled to death. I refuse to refer to BATTLE as the 'worst' of the films, since I still really dig what they were trying to accomplish on such a shoestring budget in so short a production timeframe, so I will -- at worst -- merely state that it is my 'least favorite' of the 5 films . . . which makes it, still, one of my 5 'favorite' films from my favorite film franchise. As much as I really admire the recent RISE-DAWN-WAR trilogy, I still prefer the Classic 5-film series. As good as the Reboot series is, they're lacking in SATIRE -- which made the first 2 films, especially, so distinctive. The last 3 original films veered from Satire to Epic Allegory, as was fitting, I feel. Cornelius, Zira, and Baby Milo became a simian 'Holy Family', with Hasslein attempting to out-Herod Herod. Caesar, strapped to that electro-shock table at APE MANAGEMENT, was in a very 'cruciform' pose . . . and he is seen by Breck to be put to death -- with Caesar able to FAKE dying and, thus, survive that death sentence -- whereupon Caesar could conceivably claim to have ACTUALLY died and been brought back to Life . . . by God Himself . . . which would give him an aura of 'divine authority' to rule as the King over Apes and Humans in the aftermath of Breck's defeat AND the soon-to-occur Nuclear War. Notice, though, that Caesar's plan to turn the tables on Kolp's invading forces is for the Apes to FAKE BEING DEAD and then suddenly jump to their feet and overcome the surprised would-be conquerors. It's almost as if Caesar, when earlier they were making their plans should Humans from the Forbidden City invade their peaceful lands, was then ADMITTING that he hadn't ACTUALLY died and been Resurrected back in 1991 . . . that he had been able to FAKE being dead and then get the jump on the guy who thought he'd been electrocuted, and that this tactic of FAKING DEATH and then overcoming one's foes who are lulled into a false sense of security just might work again. Think about it. Did the Apes in BATTLE believe that Caesar actually HAD died and been resurrected back in 1991? Might not Caesar have encouraged the awestruck Apes to believe this pious lie, just so that he could have that 'edge' over everybody else? The ONLY person who KNEW he hadn't REALLY died was MacDonald (in CONQUEST), due to the fact that he had turned off the power to the 'SHOCK TABLE' in the nick of time. When Breck exclaims, "But I saw you DIE!!!" you'll notice that Caesar doesn't contradict him. He doesn't say, "I was just PRETENDING, Breck; the power to the Shock Table had been cut off . . . " -- with Breck then looking over at MacDonald and realizing that all the mayhem that had since ensued was to be laid at the feet of the negro traitor to Mankind -- that MacDonald must have been the one who cut off the power, etc. No, no, no . . . Caesar allows the IDEA of his having ACTUALLY and LITERALLY been killed and then Resurrected -- by God Himself! -- to pervade the minds of his own people, the Apes whom he had freed from their captivity . . . with only MacDonald able to contradict this understanding of those events. Maybe that's why we don't see MacDonald in BATTLE. Maybe Caesar -- and this is a disturbing thought -- felt that he had to deal with this lone witness in such a way as to enable him to perpetuate the 'pious lie' that he, Caesar, had been chosen by God to be the 'Savior' . . . that God had supplied the Divine Intervention necessary to rescue the ape Hero from an actual, literal Death. MacDonald couldn't be allowed to live to contradict this supposed actual Death-and-Resurrection idea. Caesar could only root his 'right' to Rule in the fertile ground of such a mythical and religious Belief that God had brought him back from Death. What if Caesar himself murdered MacDonald, to serve what he believed to be "the greater good" -- to set the surviving Apes and Humans on the 'right' path forwards into the Future? As a consequence, Caesar might then seek to make it up to the man who had saved his life . . . the man whom he felt he HAD to silence, who knew too much . . . by making his brother into a friend if not a confidant. It's only when the survival of the Apes comes to a critical point, in the build-up to a potential invasion of armed 'mutants', that Caesar 'confesses' that his own Resurrection was actually a trick, a bit of play-acting, when he plans for them all to pretend to be dead, etc.
@@patricktilton5377 The newest upcoming "Apes" film, "Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes" spent five years being developed in production. The budgets for each film in the modern era of "Apes' has been the $100 millions, yet they have always made their money back & more. In fact, the 4 recent "Apes" films (the Tim Burton remake & the 3 Andy Serkis films) have as a whole, made far more money than the original 5 movies with Charlton Heston & Roddy McDowell ever did. "Dawn" & "War" took elements of "Battle" & made the story even grander & more epic. The trilogy has so many powerful moments & manages to outdo the original 4 sequels to the 1968 classic in every way. Now, it's the opposite of the original 4 films, as the "Apes" films have gone bigger & better with large $100 million-dollar budgets. Plus, they can afford to have longer pre-production phases that can allow them to think about what kind of movie they want to do, they no longer rush productions on this franchise, like they used to. If you look at the trailer for "Kingdom" it is very reminiscent of "Battle" as it follows certain story points from "Battle" & it's what "Battle" would have looked like if it had a bigger budget. Anyway, that's my way of thinking on the matter. In the meantime, I hope you are looking forward to "Kingdom" as much as I am.
@@erickvoshel1 I agree with Patrick, I far prefer the original 5 films over the new series (which I also like). It's silly to point out how much more money this new series is making, since 21st Century dollars are way different from 1968-1973 dollars. As much as I enjoy the new series too, many ideas, names and dialogue are inspired from the original series. I like Andy Serkis, but Roddy McDowall will always be the #1 Caesar for me. Much more impressive working in complete ape prosthetics as opposed to motion capture with cartoony post-production ape CG layering.
Very honest review of Battle. Its not one of my favourites. I was disappointed seeing in 1980s on video for the first time. It was shame that fox cut the money making the last original ape film . Disappointed that changed the character of Macdonald to his brother. I like the scenes in the forbidden city and end scene is quite moving . They should kept the Delated scene of Kolp with the omega Doomsday Bomb in forbidden city its interesting scene. Legendary film director John Huston as the Lawgiven was very good. Roddy is brilliant as always .
I wonder what Abe’s previous job was. 15 years after the revolt and he’s probably living in a treehouse while forced to teach English to intelligent apes.
Battle is one of my favorite planet of the apes movies actually. That being said, this was a pretty great review of the movie and you had a lot of good points I agree with.
Battle is definitely the weakest in the original series. I think they could have improved it slightly by setting it perhaps a thousand years in the future and have this Ceaser simply be a descendant of the first one. They could have also connected these human enemies more strongly with the mutants in Beneath. Of course, a bigger budget would have also helped. Flashbacks could have shown us what happened between Conqest and Battle. And with a larger budget, the finale could have been a genuine war instead of just the lame ending that we get now.
Huh. I have watched these original movies since I was a kid (I am old). I never realized the timeline issue you mentioned, that Conquest is technically hundreds if not thousands of years ahead of where Conquest would take place but they are at the same level of evolution and development. Nice catch!
I honestly think people wanted this particular movie to take it full circle so they could understand how it became the way it was in the original Planet of the Apes... Such as how humans became mute... Now I realize that was addressed and one of the much later films but I think that's what everyone wanted to see
It's not full circle. Even though writer Paul Dehn thought it could work that way. The arrival of Zira, Cornelius and Caesar changed it all - and that's the aspect I most love about the original series.
Love the review-agree with everything, so sad that the studio couldn’t/wouldn’t invest more time, budget and homage for the franchise created (at that time), just interested in a cash-grab-but thankfully, the Planet of the Apes universe has continued & thriving, doing honour to the predecessors🎉 so even elements of Battle contributed to and can be appreciated (even being the weakest and was given the least forethought)❤
I pretty much agree with you, one area I might not agree with is the character of MacDonald. I hate it when movies recast characters with different actors. So I was happy to see Austin Stoker play the original character's brother instead of being the same character.
Fair enough. I much prefer recasting characters to changing your story just because an actor is unable to return/dies/etc. The character is almost always more important than the actor imo.
I agree with you Josh, Battle is my least favorite film in the original series. The story is rushed and not well written, some of the characters are annoying, and it’s just such a major tonal shift from Conquest. Although, the Tim Burton remake is still my least favorite movie overall cause it’s just so different and out there for me and it doesn’t feel like part of the same franchise, the Tim Burton remake also has a terrible twist ending and it’s the worst ending, so honestly I’d still choose to watch Battle over the Tim Burton remake when marathoning this franchise.
The only way the continuity makes sense is if Caesar is NOT Caesar... He is Caesar's SON, who named him Caesar as well... You can consider McDonald to be the MUCH younger brother of the original from Conquest. And I am more than willing to hand wave away the fact that the costumes are the same as the original film considering that context.
That would have maybe been a cool way to do it, but if they would have done that then it should have been Caesar's like great great great grandson and set way farther ahead.
The poster is far better than the actual film. It went too hippie-ish at the end. By then the franchise had lunch boxes, action figures, jigsaw puzzles, coloring books,etc., but kids hated it. I was a kid and hated it. I put it with the television series, but it's still not as good. The t.v. show had decent episodes. It's the only film in the original series with no impact at the ending.
I recently finished a binge of all the original Ape films. I liked this film when I watched it, but I did feel it was not the best compared to what came before (also learning that wasn't Malchom has ruined it for me). For me, the biggest problem of the film is Aldo. Not because he's a bad villain but because he's underutilized. According to Cornelius, Aldo was the Caesar of the original timeline. It feels like a missed opportunity to not explore that since Caesar finds that original recording of his parents around the beginning of the film. It would have been interesting if Aldo found it and watched the rest, realizing that he was meant to be the savior of all Apes. The movie seems to just gloss over that, having the recording stop just before Cornelius tells who led the uprising. It really brings the movie down for me because it would have made Aldo into a more fascinating character and antagonist for the finale of the series.
So how did the ape's go from Caesar being the only speaking intelligent ape to an ape civilization complete with doctors and scientists in less than 20 years? When they're at the armor professor Virgil says the armorer was his teacher when he was young, wouldn't the armorer have been a non speaking ape with little to no actual knowledge?
For starters, the doctor in the film is a human. Virgil the orangutan is more learned, but he's not a scientist. It may be rationalized that the virus from 1983 enhanced the apes' physical stature and sped up their mental advancement as well. I admit Virgil's line "when I was a boy he was my teacher" is a bad one.
In the original five movies, nuclear war is a central aspect of the series. In the reboot series do you think there was a nuclear war during that 10 year gap between Rise and Dawn? Even it it was in a "smaller scale"
Not likely imo, but war did breakout among humans during that time, so it's definitely possible. Just seems like something that would have been mentioned or alluded to in Dawn or War if they did.
@@Ape-Nation Yeah, probably not. I guess the Simian Flu is the new "nuclear war". And its interesting because it connected the fall of man and the rise of apes even more.
As a lifelong apes fan, thank you for these in-depth reviews. I utterly and completely agree with you on all of them. Although I still think the second one may be worse than this one. Anyways you got a new subscriber. Thank you.
I despise CGI in general, but I do enjoy the new Apes series in spite of that, and I actually think the effects are better now than they used to be. All the same, there is still something "cartoony" about these newer apes. Even when observing photos, the John Chambers original prosthetics seem more realistic and impressive to me.
liked subscribed and you hit the nail on the head with this review. I have been a PotA fan since 1969 and this one was a big step down from the first 4
"Battle" was basically closing a chapter until the first film. There needed to be another film to tell how humans and apes became how they are in the first film, which takes place after "Escape", "Conquest", and "Battle" in the OG timeline, with the time loop starting with "Escape", which "began" at the end of "Beneath" (with Taylor destroying the planet with "the bomb"), but after Taylor's and Brent's "departures". The logic of the OG timeline can really mess one up... ;-)
The ending of BATTLE gives us hope that things will not derail into the events of the first 1968 Apes film. It ends with a question mark. Also, once Zira and Cornelius visited 1973 Earth in ESCAPE, the timeline and sequence of events changed. That's the brilliance of the last three original movies.
I remember seeing that movie when I was a kid and I thought it was ok. I should have left it at that because when I watched it again when I was older it was kind of bad. The thing with Macdonald they kind of did with Beneath when they hoped James Franciscus could pass as a low budget Heston. They could have just got an older guy and called him Macdonald and just added a few more years to the time
I enjoyed this movie when I first saw it, but now it's more meh for me. Though, in history (& including Escape of TPOTA), there are some apes that killed other apes. 🦍
When you think about it we've never seen the original planet of the apes timeline of how things really happened. I thought the ending of the finale showed that it was a split timeline right?
No it's not the worst it's in fact the best for its sentimental value of which starts and finishes with a Lawgiver telling a story to an equal Society of Humans and apes and how they got there to being as such to coin a term.Also how at Malibu Graphics they were just as annoyed by me as they were to have me there for them when They adapted Planet of the apes for their comics and nicely cleared up the time paradoxes to make sense when they seemingly or otherwise didn't make sense going together.
Although, Aldo was a very one dimensional villain, the film illustrates the beginnings of disunity amongst the apes, and foreshadows the notion that the scholars, and leadership in the future would not be able to curtail the bloodlust of the more militant gorillas by the time of the film Beneath, and makes you question if the future is set or if it can be changed. It's both the humans fault for creating the ape class/race divisions by what they wore as slaves, and what they were trained to do based on whether you were a chimpanzee, and orangatang, or a gorilla etc., and Caesar's fault for not trying to end the ape class/race divisions after the apes gained freedom. I always thought it was odd that the apes, and humans were after the nuclear war living in this whole Robinhood's merry men in Sherwood Forest setting with Caesar as a constitutional monarch? I mean with the police state the humans, and apes lived under by 1991, humans that had once been Americans are gonna accept a constitutional monarchy run by apes? You would think they would have opted for some kind of shared democratic body where apes, and humans elected an equal ratio of ape, and human officials to represent them by votes. It makes no sense. It feels like the producers wanted to make it look so much like a tv movie, and cheesy so that audiences would be tired of the franchise, and say no more sequels.
I have always assumed that the events of Battle would eventually lead to the same events of the original, just taking a different way to get there. So yes.
@@Ape-NationAn interpretation of authors mentioning the gender and race politics of the original human society being recreated once ape society is dominant (orangutans are effete and superior, chimpanzees are scientifically curious) was hopeful that the new timeline introduced by Caesar’s influence would have a more egalitarian approach the next go-around. With the “shedding of the tear” scene and Lawgiver’s silent asset also suggestive of this?
I had the good fortune to visit the set during filming of "Battle" for a couple of days when I was 14 years old, which of course blew this "Apes" fanatic's mind. Will never forget the thrill of briefly meeting Roddy McDowell, who was drinking juice through a straw, and who asked to see my Polaroid photo of him. On another day, an actor made up as a orangutang, sitting on a rock by himself between takes, began chatting with me in a very friendly way. I later realized it was Paul Williams. Such a nice man. And such a pity that Fox didn't take this movie seriously, because we sure did!
Paul Williams going over to the Tonight show in full makeup was classic!
I have a soft spot for this film, sure it is the weakest of the series, but I like the post-apocalyptic pre-Mad Max vibe. Shame they didn't have a bigger budget. Also having John Huston as the Lawgiver is cool.
That's basically what I came here to say. Lol
ya I feel like having it on as background noise while doing other tasks is kind of fun. Sure it has a lot of cosmetic hack jobs, but in a weird way i find it fun to poke at and is a little more entertaining in a silly kinda way
Roddy McDowell's makeup collapses when he yells, "Now! Fight like apes!"
True!! His lower jaw fell off and they tried to cover it up with some smoke effects that were added in post.
@@ChrisOnStage2ohhh. Timestamp?
just rewatched, i didn’t see anything.
One other thing that goes hand in hand with the discrepancy in the time jump between Conquest and this movie is the ape clothing. Obviously using the original costumes for the ape actors was cost-saving but we're supposed to believe that within 13 years after the fall, the apes had designed and manufactured their own distinctive clothing.
good point, but I realize they were operating on a low budget that's why they used the same clothes as the other movies, so I'm ok with it overall,
Yep...it's ridiculous.
While they were living in tree houses! 🤣
@@Ape-NationNot at all . If they can speak and plot a revolution they can surely make some clothes
If apes are vegan, what do they do with the rest of the aminals they kill for their leather?
It felt like such a rushed production, but there are moments in this film I really adore. In particular Caesar’s hardships in this movie tug on my feels.
John Huston as the Lawgiver gave this film a dignity it did not deserve.
I think your review is pretty spot on. The film has some neat ideas similar to Beneath of the Planet of the Apes but none are fleshed out and there are also too many contrivances. I remember when I first saw it I too was put off at how the apes were all intelligent creatures who could hold clear conversations even though in its predecessor they were all less intelligent. I do though also like the Caesar statue at the end of the film with its symbol of the tear being open to interpretation.
I think that the best thing this film accomplished was being a model for what the reboot trilogy did where the ideas and themes that Battle introduced were more fleshed out in our recent trilogy especially with Caesar.
Fun fact, the Caesar statue was gifted to Roddy McDowall by Arthur P Jacobs and he kept it the rest of his life. Before he died McDowall donated it to the Motion Picture and Television Fund (MPTF) who then placed it in a rose garden, dedicated to McDowall, at the MPTF hospital and retirement home in Calabasas California where I assume it still resides today
This movie felt like a saturday tv movie! I still love 1-4 the most!
Still think it's better than the Burton film. Dawn and War did this story better but this still has a lot of heart. Roddy McDowell poured his soul into this.
The franchise died with Charlton Heston. They should come up with a new idea. French Poodles perhaps?😊 3:15
ANYTHING is better than Burton's bastardization... God-damned pervert in everything he does... thank God "Superman Lives" died on the vine...
Planet of the poodles.
The Burton POTA version was cancer. However, he'd be my first choice for directing Planet Of The Poodles...🐩😁
I think someone said it best in a podcast about this movie. (This isn’t word for word, but the gist of it is): “There’s too much going on. There’s two stories with good potential that could have their own movies and stuffing both into one results in a not great execution. I’d love to see them as their own movies…wait we did! This is Dawn and War!”
100% agree!
Caesar in the OG movies couldn't catch a break. His parents died, his adoptive father died, then his son died
Yep. Sucks to be POTA: TOS Cesar...😉
Fun fact: The leader of the mutant humans was in an episode or two of "The Monkees".
Why not.... kinda perfect 😅
Severn Darden?
Fun Fact: Natalie Trundy was in so many Apes films because she was Arthur Jacobs’ wife. She did do a great job though.
Also the armory attendant is played by Lew Ayers who is most famous for playing Paul in the original 1930 All Quiet on the Western Front.
And if you see that one Twilight Zone hour long episode in which an exclusionary society doesn’t allow people to escape?
I can understand that if Trundy sans makeup was there, why no one would want to…
I kinda wish they made the movie that looks like the movie poster
That poster is awesome. This movie is not.
The poster is honestly more fun to look at than the movie
I've always thought that about all the sci-fi movies of the 50s and 60s. The only one that achieved that for me was Forbidden Planet.
@@Ape-NationIt’s a style really; much as also exemplified by the Giant Claw.
I loved this film when it came out. I would've been around 11. The finale really satisfied my young mind. Now, as a 62 year old, not so much but I can appreciate it for what it is.
Same age here, and saw it at 11 but still enjoy it
I always found it odd that they had patchy access to technology, but had no problem producing elaborate uniformed wardrobe for the apes which would require pretty sophisticated industry.
Beneath is definitely the worst, but this film doesn’t feel like a feature film. It feels more like a made-for-TV movie.
I had an Aldo action figure in the 70s those were the days.
Totally agree with your take on McDonald. Even as a kid I thought that was weird to have his brother when they could have just recast. Also when you mention the lack of pull over masks the very shot you feature has a pull over mask in it.
The whole feel of Battle was a disappointment. It’s like Saturday matinee kiddie fare. While I do love the poster art - even that makes it look like a comic book cover or kid movie - or a best - a b-grade drive in support. The other thing that used to bug me as a kid was that we’re supposed to accept that the Ape fashion doesn’t change for the next 2000 years 😂
Apes don't have much fashion sense...😉
Battle has problems but thematically I think it's really strong. It's conflict isn't the battle itself, it's Caesar realizing that when given the power, apes are as destructive as humans, they aren't as good as he had assumed. I think it's really good.
Love the concept! Just wish it was executed better.
Otis - well said.
It shocked me, while watching this video, to realize I last saw this film…holy cow…half a century ago! In its original theatrical run. On the Steel Pier in Atlantic City, NJ. I was a small child but I recall enjoying it. After 50 years I can only recall one line of dialog, it was a good one: “Get up and fight like apes!”
A great review. Although I agree with much of your analysis, nonetheless I love this film. Yes, it is the weakest of the original apes films, but I think there are some great performances (Paul Williams as Virgil, in particular), a good, fast-paced story, and I love that at the end we see that the alternate time line has been firmly established, and it leads in beautifully to the TV series (which I loved). Did they intend that? Of course not, but it does unintentionally set up the alternate time line of the series.
Had the chance to chat with Paul about this movie... He had a blast. Happy to own an autograph of him as Virgil.
@@JosephDickersonUX Oh, I am SO jealous!
@@JosephDickersonUXHe was actually good in the role.
Totally agree on all points, maybe disagree on this being worse than Tim Burton's version. But I still watch it. A bad Apes movies is better than none.
Funny thing is , my cable provider is playing all the POA movies in series, but never this one. Only once in a while they show this one randomly.
Facing a human cult faction and a militant ape faction seems like a good idea for an Apes movie at first glance. The finished film, I agree, is hollow.
Awesome review and I always found Caesar's son's death underwhelming, just falling off a branch but Roddy McDowall's performance gives a lot of emotion to the scene when he dies on the bed.
I have another interpretation of the final scene:
The orango said "only the deads knows the future" and than we see Cesar's statue crying, I think it's a way darker ending, foreshadowing future events
I think the reason is they didn’t want an old Caesar. And the new Apes movie is able to spread the story across many movies.
21:05 I always took the ending to mean that apes and men were able to live side by side. Yes, there was that brief bit of conflict between the children, but no one got up in arms about it. It was just kids being kids.
Cornelius and Zera’s sacrifice saved the world, and Caesar’s time as a leader reshaped civilization for the better.
Imagine the world if Aldo had said “No.”
Oh wait, those were the first three movies.
Big POTA fan for over 50 years…great review and I’ll def have to catch your other ones now 😉👍👍
Thanks for watching!
I just wanted to tell you I love your channel. I recently watched the new trilogy and found your channel and I set notifications to all after two videos. I had never seen any of the OG apes movies besides the original and I was so young I didn’t remember it at all and now I am binging the original series after watching your breakdowns. Great work and thank you for getting me to watch them.
Love that so much!! That is exactly why I wanted to start this channel, I'm happy to get more people to watch the original movies and help grow the fanbase. Thanks for watching!!
I read a fan theory that the space virus that killed the cats and dogs both accelerated ape intelligence (so they could so quickly be able to speak and use tools) and inhibited human intelligence and aggression so they readily accepted ape rule. To me, that helps explain some of the state of affairs by the time of Battle.
Honestly I like that theory! It wouldn't fix the movie completely, but it would definitely improve it for me.
Agreed
It also must have mutated them into a more Hominid-like form, (being able to walk upright and all)...😏
Now that I think about it the movie could have been really cool if it was Caesar, McDonald and Virgil going on like a quest to find something to help ape city survive while having to deal with Aldo as like a rogue bandit group of gorillas and the mutant they encounter. I guess like Fallout video game quest finding the geck almost.
12:12 I was under the impression that events turned out the way they did in Conquest (re: somehow going from pets dying to enslaved apes) because it’s what happened in the original timeline as Cornelius described it in Escape.
I’m curious to hear your take on the scene depicting the footage of Cornelius retelling ape history. When I watched it, it seemed like they changed the lines so that the identity of the ape revolutionary leader is more vague (changed from Aldo to “an ape” or something). Was this just another instance of not thinking that far ahead, and having to retcon? I suppose it could be interpreted as the timeline being changed, wherein the apes’ saviour is changed from Aldo to Caesar, but I don’t think they explicitly say that (except for Dr. Milo/Virgil hinting at it when talking about “changing lanes” in time).
Thanks for these, these are great!
I had always decided to throw the timeline out. I pushed it about 200 years into the future, and allow them just to be descendants of other characters. The quick time line made no sense. Push it out, and it flows much better. This allows the time for the deterioration of items. Much in the way Battlefield Earth was set. People were reduced due to necessity, and loss of the ability to maintain their items.
Quite a lot happened to civilization (both human and ape) across the world in between CONQUEST and BATTLE.
A mini-series on that time period alone would be great. So many storylines and plot points to dissect.
As Caesar said, “What you have seen here today, apes on the five continents (only five?) will be imitating tomorrow.”
@Ape-Nation The human lady in Caesar's treehouse, is she a doctor or just their servant... or both?
Never been 100% clear to me, but I'm pretty sure she's just a live-in doctor
@@Ape-Nation funny how Kerri Russell sort of played that role briefly in DAWN.
I think the actress who played this role turned up on an episode of Three's Company.
I surprisingly enjoyed this movie. It was really interesting
I have a couple things to say in defence of some of the points you mentioned: first, the possible recasting of "the black character": This may not be obvious to people today, but in the States in the 70s, this was the first decade where racially minorities were representated as equals throughout the entire decade, and the producers might think it would be a negative statement if they recast the role (some might feel they are saying "He's Black-they all look alike, so no one will notice if it is a different actor". Even if that wasn't the intention, and indeed, many actors are recast for the same character (eg Savvik from Kristie Alley to Robin Curtis in the 80s Star Trek movies), that impression might be left with some). I understand their decision even if the brother idea seems kind of random.
As far as Ceasar's story arc, I like the fact that a trusted advisor has to gently help Ceasar along the way. Once "Ape has killed Ape", Ceasar's gears were working, but sometimes a little help comes handy.
I don't know-I always liked the happy ending of this movie. It seems that the bad future has been subverted despite the hardship getting there. I always thought the lawgiver's tear of joy at the end highlights that.
Like I said earlier, this is an unpopular opinion, but I have always had this as my favourite of the 5 films, and a fitting and optimistic conclusion
I like your appreciation for BATTLE. I've always wished the MacDonald character in BATTLE had been the same character as in CONQUEST, because it would be like Caesar ranked him higher due to MacDonald saving Caesar's life in CONQUEST, and giving him special consideration. I understand that there were two different actors, but this is done very often in movies: George Hamilton replacing Robert DuVall for GODFATHER 3...two different actresses in the two SILENCE OF THE LAMBS....Sarah Connor in the TERMINATOR films...
For the sake of logical reasoning in trying to make inconsistencies of a sci-fi series make sense… I believe when the 3 apes came to Earth in 1973 during *Escape* it changed the timeline of the natural course of events from what we knew to happened in the first 2 films of the franchise.
I believe given that state of the apes’ presence on Earth, it began a paradox and igniting the fire they once came from but also altered events and sped up the processing fall of man.
For example: Aldo was spoke of in *Escape* to be the first ape to speak and defy a human command, where as we see Aldo in *Battle* , who essentially is nothing like the glorious character we expected him to be, which I believe is safe to assume that is the same character.
But these are my thoughts.
I agree.
Aldo was always meant to be either a Chimpanzee or an Orangutan, not a Gorilla. This is evident by the 'Lawgiver' statue illusion in 'Beneath'...
I remember the summer this one came out, the local theater had a "Go Ape" marathon with all 5 movies and Battle was the one we were seeing for the first time. I was 12 years old and I remember me and the other kids thought Battle was a let down, we felt it was just slapped together to keep the franchise going but we got to sit in an air-conditioned theater on a hot summer day and enjoy them all. Definitely a good and accurate review, I think your opinion is spot on.
I wish we could all GO APE again with movie theaters releasing a marathon on one of the anniversaries of these films. I'd stay for all five films.
@@davestang5454 please explain and elaborate your thoughts.
paul williams is great... he is my memories of the 1970s.
Thanks for mentioning Leonard Rosenman’s film score for this movie too. If you listen to his soundtrack music for this movie, Beneath The Planet of The Apes, Star Trek IV The Voyage Home & Ralph Bakshi’s 1978 The Lord of The Rings, all 4 film scores are basically the same one! I’m sure he’s re-used this music for other movies too. It’s not a bad thing, but I’m amazed no-one ever seemed to notice.😀
I disagree. His BATTLE score is nothing at all like his BENEATH score.
Still more entertaining than the burton remake.
So is watching paint dry...😉
A good film but let down by a much tighter budget,ive read the novelization and the battle between ape's and mutants is much more epic and would have been great to see on screen, also after the violence of"conquest" the studio wanted a more family friendly film paving the way for how the tv show would be.
Great & accurate review. - Not to nitpick, but this video contains a rather common error when discussing Aldo; The actor is Claude Akins, NOT Atkins. Not a huge deal, but I notice this a lot when this movie is discussed. Anyway, that's just my own 2 cents. Keep the great videos coming. Subscribed.
I've always heard it pronounced as Atkins but appreciate the call out. Thanks for watching!!
AKE-INS is how it's pronounced. @@Ape-Nation
Claude Apekins...😉
Another great review. I was hoping you would go in order and do the animated series and the TV series before going on to the modern movies. 😢
I'm definitely going to be reviewing them! Just not until after Kingdom. I'd have to rush through the shows if I did them first and want to give them the same amount of time and effort as my other reviews.
I pretty much agree, it’s bad but I’ll still watch it over Tim Burtons remake any day. For a different take on it you can check out what Marvel did in the 70s with their adaptation in their POTA magazine. It has Breck as the bad guy and a different ending to the lawgiver sequence. One thing you over looked that just screams low budget is the fact that the apes are all dressed just as they were in the first two movies. That was just jarring.
How did all the Apes learn to speak and think about time travel in just 12 years?? It was the only kid friendly movie of the series so most kids liked it. It’s a cowboy vs Indian movie.
This is what I dont get
The 1983 virus accelerated their minds.
Blame it on the mutagenic 1983 Space Virus that killed all of the doggies and kitties in OG POTA Canon. Everybody does, y'know..😏
I have a huge soft spot for Battle as it was the first apes movie I saw in the cineme on its initial release in the early 70s. This and the two TV shows were "my" apes as a kid before the original and sequels were shown on TV.
As kids we'd play as Aldo and Urko shouting "no"! 😅
Its a poorly made movie, but has great ideas, which I enjoy even now. Yes, I get what you are saying about Aldo, but through the eyes of as a kid he was awesome.
Totally fair! I'm glad you enjoy it.
I actually found this to be my favourite of the original series. Heard that it was dissappointing, and I got a bit bored in the series after watching Conquest but I'm glad that it turned out the other way now that I saw this. Ceasar was a lot better in this film and so was the general writing. The sets and matte-paintings looked very nice as well. 3/5, entertaining.
Glad you appreciate it!
I liked this movie. Cesar is much more likable here to me .
This was the only way to do the movie to go forward and have a ending to the movies
Same here I watched it on the sify channel marathon back in 98
Yep, the behind the scenes insight gave me a solid background for the rest of the series.
Particularly as “Beneath” was so unremarkable to me upon first viewing that it took me some 20 years to actually watch Escape and beyond…
I really like your content and this is my 2nd or 3rd video but I won't be able to finish it sorry that background music just can't do it.
One of the most underrated films of all time. Not saying it's great, but it's good and has strong characters (including Aldo) and heart. The dynamic between father and son (Caesar and Cornelius) is heart wrenching when young Cornelius is murdered. Also important is the running theme of whether we can actually alter the future, having known the details of what's to come. As for the advanced intelligence of the apes, it can be rationalized that their stature has zoomed ahead due to the plague that hit Earth in 1983.
The music for all the originals are way more potent and memorable to me than any of the modern overblown scores.
So thankful I was born when I was. When I saw this movie in the theater in 1973, it didn't look "made for TV" at all (pity what today's overblown cartoony CGI actionfests have done to the minds and expectations of modern audiences).
Today's "CGI action fests" (which is not what the new films are in the slightest) have nothing to do with it. Battle just looks bad, the first four don't. That's it.
@@Ape-Nation .I do like the new Apes films, and I agree they're not just CGI actionfests (I was referring to new films in general; the apes ones smartly retain characterizations and the emotional heart of the originals).
@@Ape-Nation I agree the new Apes movies aren't like that, they do retain heart and emotional characters. I was referring to newer films in general.
Easily the weakest Apes film in the OG series. After the dark and violent tone of Conquest, it was decided that the final film should end on a much lighter tone. So it was a very family-friendly movie, which isn’t a bad thing. But man, you can tell that there was a definite lack of budget by the time this was made. I have the same feelings about the lack of main characters from the previous movie. Kolp could been made far more sinister, rather than a cartoon villain. Aldo bothered me too. At least the original series ends on a vaguely hopeful note.
Loving your reviews. Hope you’ll review the live action & animated TV shows at some point.
Planning to do them later in the year after Kingdom!
When I first watched it, I enjoyed it a lot. I liked it more than Conquest, but after a rewatch, I see why it's disliked. It felt like a TV movie.
Aldo was a good villain and the Lawgiver was awesome, also Cornelius' death was shocking as I'd never seen a kid killed.
Makes me wonder what a 6th film might've looked like.
I agree with most of what you said. My biggest problem with the movie is that Caesar goes to the Forbidden City to look for answers that we as the viewer already have. Paul Williams as Virgil and the ending were great, in my opinion. Fun fact: Both Roddy McDowall and Paul Williams would later voice villains for Batman the Animated Series. Roddy McDowall would voice the Mad Hatter and Paul Williams would do the Penguin. Edit: typos.
I liked McDowall's bookworm villain in the live action show too-I always wished he'd come back (but never did)
@@SJHFotoNeat, I forgot about that! :D
How do you really feel about Aldo?
Lol, he's the WORST.
Aldo wishes he could be Koba.
Koba is an Aldo clone. And a cartoon one at that.
4:30 - You: "I think this is below the Tim Burton movie."
Me (bangs gavel): "SILENCE! YOU GO TOO FAR!"
For those in the comments talking about the "made for TV" look/feel about it... consider that the studio itself was at fault for that, 100%. With each successful Apes movie, the budget for the (demanded for) sequel to follow was slashed like the tires on a sports car in Downtown Baltimore. The original movie made BANK for what it cost them at the time, and they (rightfully) wanted a sequel. But because of non-related box-office duds, the studio cut the budget nearly in half, but expected a massive return on their investment (which, to be fair, they DID kinda get)... and they demanded another sequel, but cut the budget AGAIN. Rince, repeat until Arthur P. Jacobs died, and the franchise with him (well, partially). Just imagine what could have been had the budget NOT been cut, and even if not increased, at least left alone. I'd say they did the best they could with the money they were given to make it. The acting is great (there's no faulting the actors for their performances in any of the original Apes movies), the visual effects decent, the story.... well, okay, that was a bit of a weak spot, but still enjoyable, it had all the action a kid could want, and we all wanted a pet squirrel because Cornelious had one.
Myself, I love this movie.... but I also have a real soft spot for campy movies like it. John Huston's portrayal as The Lawgiver was awesome, and (IMHO) perfectly bookends the movie. The ending left a mixed message: Was what we had experienced in the previous 4 movies "set in stone", or "is there hope for the future"? Was the statue of Ceasar crying because it meant a new beginning, or simply a repeat of what we already know?
But I like that kind of ambiguity. The entire series made one question if the events were a "set loop", or "did the Apes going back in time, establish a new timeline of events"? Something that Back to the Future would revisit years later.
With the most recent trilogy, we can even consider that to be "the original timeline", even though there are some discrepancies.
Also, you can choose to either "just watch the movies and be entertained by them", or "do a deep dive to see what you find". To think, or not to think, that is the question. ;)
But that Tim Burton/Marky Mark anomaly.... that was nothing more than a proof of concept for make up techniques, which CGI would render a moot point anyway, and to see if there was still interest in the franchise. Never speak of it again.
Then don't. Burton's POTA was a PO(A)S...💩
I remember loving this film the first time I saw it. I have a soft spot for this film too. I understand and respect the criticism. There are deep flaws in the movie . Is it correct that there was a commitment to do the tv series after this movie? My criticism is where was Aldo during the main battle? What happened to all the. Soldiers around the campfire on the fateful night? Why was Aldo so frightened of Caesar in the final scene when he was challenging his authority all throughout the movie ?
The extended cut -- which actually was seen in theaters in foreign countries, if not in America -- is crucial in that the Doomsday Bomb WOULD have been detonated by Alma, as per Kolp's orders, had not Mendez managed to convince her that it ought to be 'venerated' (etc.), this being the seed from which the full-blown insane Bomb-worshiping religion seen in BENEATH had its beginnings.
I'll grant you that each film in the series, suffering budget cuts that we can't fathom in our own time, where sequels get higher and HIGHER budgets each go 'round, could each have been better had they had the resources to do what they would have liked to do. But remember: they were cranking these sequels out one per year! PLANET came out in '68 . . . BENEATH in '70 . . . ESCAPE in '71 . . . CONQUEST in '72 . . . and BATTLE in '73, with the TV spin-off series in '74. Remember having to wait for 3 years to see the first sequel to STAR WARS? In the course of a single year, they were able to get a script written, a production team geared up to make the film, a score composed and recorded, and a final product edited and ready for theaters. And all of that on a shoestring budget! Imagine what they could've done with an ever-INCREASING budget, and a 2-year production time, instead?
Here are several things about BATTLE that make me appreciate it more and more, despite me finding it to be the 'least favorite' of the original 5 films.
Lisa admonishes Cornelius for 'playing War' with a human friend, pretending to be dead after being shot by a stick-wielding boy (all the actual Guns being kept in Mandemus' home/armory). Mandemus insults Aldo -- when the latter goes to his home/armory to get the guns -- about him considering War to be a 'game', etc. Aldo, of course, has actually caused the eventual death of Caesar's son-and-heir, due to having been overheard by the lad as he plotted to overthrow (i.e. "'smash') Caesar. This dynamic -- of Cornelius first PRETENDING to die in a 'war' game, only to actually DIE later on . . . does it not remind anybody else of how Spock, in "The Wrath of Khan," first PRETENDS to die during Saavik's Kobayashi Maru test -- "Aren't you dead?" asks Kirk -- only to actually die saving the ship by copy-catting what Scotty's nephew Peter Preston had done earlier in the film? That STAR TREK scene, of course, was more hard-hitting of a movie, due to the character being so beloved, having been around for 15+ years . . . but the passing of Caesar's son and only Heir was FIRST -- the first ape-on-ape murder, the Cain-and-Abel event for the simian society that had thought itself removed from all possibility of suffering from 'human history' and its inherent flaws and mistakes. "Ape shall not kill ape" -- or, as Caesar insists when talking to MacDonald, "Ape never kills ape." Really, Caesar?
The change from CONQUEST's MacDonald to his brother (also referred to just by that shared last-name) has never bothered me. The former character was Gov. Breck's personal; assistant -- almost a 'house-negro' in a way -- and he was the one who undoubtedly went to get that selectively-edited archival footage which Breck showed to Armando when they were interrogating that circus owner. The 'MacDonald in BATTLE was said to have been the Supervisor of the city's ARCHIVES section, and so he would have had access to the archived data tapes stored there, and had undoubtedly been there when his brother showed up that day to get a tape made of selected portions of the Presidential Commission footage from 1973. You'll notice that at no time on that tape, in that CONQUEST scene, is there any mention whatsoever of the ultimate fate of the world as witnessed by Zira and later mentioned to Hasslein (who had been surreptitiously taping her) . . . meaning that Breck himself never seems to be aware of the fact that the world would be destroyed in 3955 in the culmination of a gorilla-instigated war. But MacDonald, I would argue, DID know about it -- he saw the ENTIRE tape when he made his own edited version of it to show to Breck, Kolp, Hoskyns, etc. but kept his own knowledge of the world's fate to himself. Breck rants about his fear that "the world will belong to a planet of apes!" -- NOT that the world will be DESTROYED in less than 20 centuries' time. MacDonald's brother, supervisor of those ARCHIVES, learned -- from his concerned brother -- that those tapes concerned the ultimate fate of the world . . . it's what prompts him to contradict Caesar's confidence that the Earth will sail through space with no worries now that Apes are in control. MacDonald knows that the parents Caesar never knew had spoken of Earth's destructive fate on those tapes -- and it is this that compels Caesar to make a journey into the 'Hell' that once was the city where the Apes had been slaves.
In the myths of many cultures, the Hero-figure descends into 'Hell' and communes with his Father -- or with a glorious Ancestor -- such as when Aeneas talks with the ghost of his father Anchises in the AENEID, or when Dante talks with his ancestor Cacciaguida in the PARADISO (etc.) . . . in order to learn about the destiny of his own people. Paul Dehn transposed/adapted this mythic trope into a science-fiction setting, where Caesar's dead parents are able to 'talk' to him -- through their pre-recorded audio-visual record -- and reveal truths about the Future.
I was a PLANET OF THE APES fan(atic) from an early age. In high school, I read Dante's INFERNO, in which Dante is guided through Hell by the ghost of the Roman poet Virgil . . . and I sure as hell perked up at that, knowing then why Caesar's smart orangutan pal got his name. After reading the INFERNO -- and then the rest of the DIVINE COMEDY, the PURGATORIO and PARADISO -- I went on to read Virgil's AENEID . . . then Homer's ILIAD and ODYSSEY (which inspired Virgil), etc. Paul Dehn took the baton handed to him by Dante, who got it from Virgil, who got it from Homer, etc. There was more going on in BATTLE than many (most?) fans of the series knew, unless they were as well-read in the Classics as I eventually became -- spurred on by my fascination with the APES series.
(continued in my next post . . .)
Continued from above . . .
I could go on and on, but I'll end with this: if you take 2004 as the date when BATTLE takes place -- and, myself, I tend to prefer the year 2003, since I think there was only 12 years since CONQUEST (in 1991) until this story, due to a line in the script regarding how long Alma has been in Kolp's service (i.e. 11 years and a number of months) -- then subtract '2004' from the date we see for the Lawgiver scenes that frame the 'story of Caesar' proper, the year 2670 . . . and what number do we get? 2670 - 2004 = 666 . . . the Number of the Beast. Notice that the Lawgiver, preaching from a 'scripture' scroll to his unseen Audience (which we later see to be Human and Chimpanzee children), first says: "In the beginning God created Beast and Man, so that both might live in friendship and share dominion over a world at peace . . ." Unlike the later-written SACRED SCROLLS -- written 1,200 years before PLANET's date of 3955, i.e. circa 2755, or about 85 years after this 'nice' Lawgiver's recital -- this older 'scripture' acknowledges that Man was not a mere 'animal', the soulless "beast Man" whom the later Lawgiver denigrated as "the Devil's pawn . . . the harbinger of Death" -- but credits him with having been a city-building people, etc. Interesting, isn't it, that there are 666 years from the date of BATTLE -- if it indeed is in 2004 -- to the date when the 'nice' Lawgiver recites from Caesar's story in 2670. The 'Beast' he refers to is juxtaposed with Man, implying that the Apes were to be thought of as the 'Beast' in the narrative . . . echoing Breck's defiant answer to Caesar's question as to Why humans turned the Apes from Pets into Slaves: "You are that BEAST, Caesar!" he says, at one point. The beast that must be shackled . . . whipped into submission. "When we hate you, we're hating the dark side within ourselves . . ."
One might think that Mandemus' line contradicts this 2004 date for the story, but it doesn't really. He tells Caesar that the Armory has been his home for 27 years . . . not that his home had been their Armory for 27 years. This line tells us that Mandemus had been living in that place for 27 years -- i.e. from the year 1977 or so (or 1976, if you date BATTLE to 2003), and when Caesar decided to practice a strict Gun Control, preventing Aldo and the gorillas from having access to the guns anytime they wished, he chose to use Mandemus' home as their Armory, from no earlier than 1991, the aftermath of the events of CONQUEST. In my own POTA canon/scenario, I like to think that Dr. Lewis Dixon married Stephanie Branton, and they co-authored a book titled something like "VISITORS FROM A PLANET OF APES" . . . and that they had a best-seller, being the closest humans to those celebrity Ape-onauts who'd been murdered so soon after their arrival from Earth's own future . . . and that they went on to use the money they made from the book to buy up a lot of land in the forested region of California that later became the site of Caesar's treehouse "Ape City" -- and it was to that "Dixon Wildlife Preserve" that Caesar led his 'exodus' of Apes out of Breck's city shortly before the Nuclear War erupted. In my scenario, Caesar hoped to meet the Dixons there, eager to learn firsthand from them about their talks with Cornelius and Zira . . . but as their armed Ape Army approached the site, a fracas between some armed gorillas and the people running that DIXON WILDLIFE REFUGE resulted inj Lewis and Stevie being shot and killed . . . and this so enraged Caesar that he then ordered all the guns to be stored in a secure place -- the home in which Mandemus had been living since 1976-or-1977. That place was Mandemus' home for 27 years, but it BECAME the Armory in 1991, and had been an Armory for only 12-to-13 years, depending on whether or not BATTLE is set in 2003 or 2004.
The studio forced the production team to calm things down a bit from what they'd done in CONQUEST -- a trend begun with the tacked-on ending of CONQUEST, after the preview audience was so shocked by the brutality portrayed at the end -- i.e. Breck getting pummeled to death.
I refuse to refer to BATTLE as the 'worst' of the films, since I still really dig what they were trying to accomplish on such a shoestring budget in so short a production timeframe, so I will -- at worst -- merely state that it is my 'least favorite' of the 5 films . . . which makes it, still, one of my 5 'favorite' films from my favorite film franchise. As much as I really admire the recent RISE-DAWN-WAR trilogy, I still prefer the Classic 5-film series. As good as the Reboot series is, they're lacking in SATIRE -- which made the first 2 films, especially, so distinctive. The last 3 original films veered from Satire to Epic Allegory, as was fitting, I feel. Cornelius, Zira, and Baby Milo became a simian 'Holy Family', with Hasslein attempting to out-Herod Herod. Caesar, strapped to that electro-shock table at APE MANAGEMENT, was in a very 'cruciform' pose . . . and he is seen by Breck to be put to death -- with Caesar able to FAKE dying and, thus, survive that death sentence -- whereupon Caesar could conceivably claim to have ACTUALLY died and been brought back to Life . . . by God Himself . . . which would give him an aura of 'divine authority' to rule as the King over Apes and Humans in the aftermath of Breck's defeat AND the soon-to-occur Nuclear War.
Notice, though, that Caesar's plan to turn the tables on Kolp's invading forces is for the Apes to FAKE BEING DEAD and then suddenly jump to their feet and overcome the surprised would-be conquerors. It's almost as if Caesar, when earlier they were making their plans should Humans from the Forbidden City invade their peaceful lands, was then ADMITTING that he hadn't ACTUALLY died and been Resurrected back in 1991 . . . that he had been able to FAKE being dead and then get the jump on the guy who thought he'd been electrocuted, and that this tactic of FAKING DEATH and then overcoming one's foes who are lulled into a false sense of security just might work again.
Think about it. Did the Apes in BATTLE believe that Caesar actually HAD died and been resurrected back in 1991? Might not Caesar have encouraged the awestruck Apes to believe this pious lie, just so that he could have that 'edge' over everybody else? The ONLY person who KNEW he hadn't REALLY died was MacDonald (in CONQUEST), due to the fact that he had turned off the power to the 'SHOCK TABLE' in the nick of time. When Breck exclaims, "But I saw you DIE!!!" you'll notice that Caesar doesn't contradict him. He doesn't say, "I was just PRETENDING, Breck; the power to the Shock Table had been cut off . . . " -- with Breck then looking over at MacDonald and realizing that all the mayhem that had since ensued was to be laid at the feet of the negro traitor to Mankind -- that MacDonald must have been the one who cut off the power, etc. No, no, no . . . Caesar allows the IDEA of his having ACTUALLY and LITERALLY been killed and then Resurrected -- by God Himself! -- to pervade the minds of his own people, the Apes whom he had freed from their captivity . . . with only MacDonald able to contradict this understanding of those events.
Maybe that's why we don't see MacDonald in BATTLE. Maybe Caesar -- and this is a disturbing thought -- felt that he had to deal with this lone witness in such a way as to enable him to perpetuate the 'pious lie' that he, Caesar, had been chosen by God to be the 'Savior' . . . that God had supplied the Divine Intervention necessary to rescue the ape Hero from an actual, literal Death. MacDonald couldn't be allowed to live to contradict this supposed actual Death-and-Resurrection idea. Caesar could only root his 'right' to Rule in the fertile ground of such a mythical and religious Belief that God had brought him back from Death. What if Caesar himself murdered MacDonald, to serve what he believed to be "the greater good" -- to set the surviving Apes and Humans on the 'right' path forwards into the Future?
As a consequence, Caesar might then seek to make it up to the man who had saved his life . . . the man whom he felt he HAD to silence, who knew too much . . . by making his brother into a friend if not a confidant. It's only when the survival of the Apes comes to a critical point, in the build-up to a potential invasion of armed 'mutants', that Caesar 'confesses' that his own Resurrection was actually a trick, a bit of play-acting, when he plans for them all to pretend to be dead, etc.
@@patricktilton5377 The newest upcoming "Apes" film, "Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes" spent five years being developed in production. The budgets for each film in the modern era of "Apes' has been the $100 millions, yet they have always made their money back & more. In fact, the 4 recent "Apes" films (the Tim Burton remake & the 3 Andy Serkis films) have as a whole, made far more money than the original 5 movies with Charlton Heston & Roddy McDowell ever did. "Dawn" & "War" took elements of "Battle" & made the story even grander & more epic. The trilogy has so many powerful moments & manages to outdo the original 4 sequels to the 1968 classic in every way. Now, it's the opposite of the original 4 films, as the "Apes" films have gone bigger & better with large $100 million-dollar budgets. Plus, they can afford to have longer pre-production phases that can allow them to think about what kind of movie they want to do, they no longer rush productions on this franchise, like they used to. If you look at the trailer for "Kingdom" it is very reminiscent of "Battle" as it follows certain story points from "Battle" & it's what "Battle" would have looked like if it had a bigger budget. Anyway, that's my way of thinking on the matter. In the meantime, I hope you are looking forward to "Kingdom" as much as I am.
@@erickvoshel1 I agree with Patrick, I far prefer the original 5 films over the new series (which I also like). It's silly to point out how much more money this new series is making, since 21st Century dollars are way different from 1968-1973 dollars. As much as I enjoy the new series too, many ideas, names and dialogue are inspired from the original series. I like Andy Serkis, but Roddy McDowall will always be the #1 Caesar for me. Much more impressive working in complete ape prosthetics as opposed to motion capture with cartoony post-production ape CG layering.
Very honest review of Battle. Its not one of my favourites. I was disappointed seeing in 1980s on video for the first time. It was shame that fox cut the money making the last original ape film .
Disappointed that changed the character of Macdonald to his brother. I like the scenes in the forbidden city and end scene is quite moving . They should kept the Delated scene of Kolp with the omega Doomsday Bomb in forbidden city its interesting scene. Legendary film director John Huston as the Lawgiven was very good. Roddy is brilliant as always .
"Abe has killed Abe"😂😂
Aldo likes this.
lol I remember watching this as a kid, and wondering who Abe was. 😅
I wonder what Abe’s previous job was. 15 years after the revolt and he’s probably living in a treehouse while forced to teach English to intelligent apes.
The Ape-raham Lincoln Memorial was seen at the end of Tim Burton's lousy POTA version...😉
Battle is one of my favorite planet of the apes movies actually. That being said, this was a pretty great review of the movie and you had a lot of good points I agree with.
Glad you like the movie!
Battle is definitely the weakest in the original series. I think they could have improved it slightly by setting it perhaps a thousand years in the future and have this Ceaser simply be a descendant of the first one. They could have also connected these human enemies more strongly with the mutants in Beneath. Of course, a bigger budget would have also helped. Flashbacks could have shown us what happened between Conqest and Battle. And with a larger budget, the finale could have been a genuine war instead of just the lame ending that we get now.
I've recently begun to think of this movie as "Skirmish for the Planet of the Apes...." 😂
You mean: "School Bus Skirmish Of The Planet Of The Apes"...😉
Huh. I have watched these original movies since I was a kid (I am old). I never realized the timeline issue you mentioned, that Conquest is technically hundreds if not thousands of years ahead of where Conquest would take place but they are at the same level of evolution and development. Nice catch!
I honestly think people wanted this particular movie to take it full circle so they could understand how it became the way it was in the original Planet of the Apes...
Such as how humans became mute...
Now I realize that was addressed and one of the much later films but I think that's what everyone wanted to see
It's not full circle. Even though writer Paul Dehn thought it could work that way. The arrival of Zira, Cornelius and Caesar changed it all - and that's the aspect I most love about the original series.
@@MrCinemayo You are correct.....It didn't...
But I think that's what people wanted much like when star wars decided to do a prequel....
Love the review-agree with everything, so sad that the studio couldn’t/wouldn’t invest more time, budget and homage for the franchise created (at that time), just interested in a cash-grab-but thankfully, the Planet of the Apes universe has continued & thriving, doing honour to the predecessors🎉 so even elements of Battle contributed to and can be appreciated (even being the weakest and was given the least forethought)❤
I pretty much agree with you, one area I might not agree with is the character of MacDonald. I hate it when movies recast characters with different actors. So I was happy to see Austin Stoker play the original character's brother instead of being the same character.
I’m in favor of it if it helps the movie
Fair enough. I much prefer recasting characters to changing your story just because an actor is unable to return/dies/etc. The character is almost always more important than the actor imo.
@@Ape-Nation I agree completely regarding MacDonald. I wish he had been the same character from CONQUEST.
I'm looking forward to you reviewing the reboot trilogy.
I was shocked at how good they were. The respect shown to the franchise was beautiful. I wish Star Wars was brought back with that much craftsmanship.
I was 11 when I saw this in the theatre. I was pretty easy to please when it came to the Ape franchise.
I think “Ape has killed Ape” , could have been a great rap song.
I agree with you Josh, Battle is my least favorite film in the original series. The story is rushed and not well written, some of the characters are annoying, and it’s just such a major tonal shift from Conquest. Although, the Tim Burton remake is still my least favorite movie overall cause it’s just so different and out there for me and it doesn’t feel like part of the same franchise, the Tim Burton remake also has a terrible twist ending and it’s the worst ending, so honestly I’d still choose to watch Battle over the Tim Burton remake when marathoning this franchise.
Fair enough, I just think the Burton movie has a few more positive things going for it than Battle.
I've been waiting on this one.
Cesar crying could also be symbolic of the inability of the future.
Once the future is written, it may not be possible to change.
Causality. I would've always liked to see a Crossover in which Marty and Doc Brown travel to the "Apes" future in the DeLaurean...😁👍!
I think the tear at the end of the movie was a tear they could milk money from this series any longer .
Battle had one of the best movie posters by Robert Tanenbaum
The only way the continuity makes sense is if Caesar is NOT Caesar... He is Caesar's SON, who named him Caesar as well... You can consider McDonald to be the MUCH younger brother of the original from Conquest. And I am more than willing to hand wave away the fact that the costumes are the same as the original film considering that context.
That would have maybe been a cool way to do it, but if they would have done that then it should have been Caesar's like great great great grandson and set way farther ahead.
The poster is far better than the actual film. It went too hippie-ish at the end. By then the franchise had lunch boxes, action figures, jigsaw puzzles, coloring books,etc., but kids hated it. I was a kid and hated it. I put it with the television series, but it's still not as good. The t.v. show had decent episodes. It's the only film in the original series with no impact at the ending.
I recently finished a binge of all the original Ape films. I liked this film when I watched it, but I did feel it was not the best compared to what came before (also learning that wasn't Malchom has ruined it for me). For me, the biggest problem of the film is Aldo. Not because he's a bad villain but because he's underutilized. According to Cornelius, Aldo was the Caesar of the original timeline. It feels like a missed opportunity to not explore that since Caesar finds that original recording of his parents around the beginning of the film. It would have been interesting if Aldo found it and watched the rest, realizing that he was meant to be the savior of all Apes. The movie seems to just gloss over that, having the recording stop just before Cornelius tells who led the uprising. It really brings the movie down for me because it would have made Aldo into a more fascinating character and antagonist for the finale of the series.
So how did the ape's go from Caesar being the only speaking intelligent ape to an ape civilization complete with doctors and scientists in less than 20 years? When they're at the armor professor Virgil says the armorer was his teacher when he was young, wouldn't the armorer have been a non speaking ape with little to no actual knowledge?
Yeah...none of it makes any sense
For starters, the doctor in the film is a human. Virgil the orangutan is more learned, but he's not a scientist. It may be rationalized that the virus from 1983 enhanced the apes' physical stature and sped up their mental advancement as well. I admit Virgil's line "when I was a boy he was my teacher" is a bad one.
In the original five movies, nuclear war is a central aspect of the series. In the reboot series do you think there was a nuclear war during that 10 year gap between Rise and Dawn? Even it it was in a "smaller scale"
Not likely imo, but war did breakout among humans during that time, so it's definitely possible. Just seems like something that would have been mentioned or alluded to in Dawn or War if they did.
@@Ape-Nation Yeah, probably not. I guess the Simian Flu is the new "nuclear war". And its interesting because it connected the fall of man and the rise of apes even more.
As a lifelong apes fan, thank you for these in-depth reviews. I utterly and completely agree with you on all of them. Although I still think the second one may be worse than this one. Anyways you got a new subscriber. Thank you.
Thank you so much!
Will you review the tv episodes one by one?
And the cartoon episodes?
Yep! Doing episode-by-episode and full season reviews for both shows later this year after Kingdom comes out!
This has always been my absolute favourite Planet of the Apes movie. I am sorry to be in the minority with this
Nothing to apologize for, I'm glad you get enjoyment out of it! I wish I did.
Still better than the CGI crap of today.
Respectfully...no
I despise CGI in general, but I do enjoy the new Apes series in spite of that, and I actually think the effects are better now than they used to be. All the same, there is still something "cartoony" about these newer apes. Even when observing photos, the John Chambers original prosthetics seem more realistic and impressive to me.
liked subscribed and you hit the nail on the head with this review. I have been a PotA fan since 1969 and this one was a big step down from the first 4
Wouldn't the inflation adjusted gross be almost $56M? Still good.
Damn, you're right! Did the math again and it comes out to $60.4M. No idea how I calculated that one so wrong.
"Battle" was basically closing a chapter until the first film. There needed to be another film to tell how humans and apes became how they are in the first film, which takes place after "Escape", "Conquest", and "Battle" in the OG timeline, with the time loop starting with "Escape", which "began" at the end of "Beneath" (with Taylor destroying the planet with "the bomb"), but after Taylor's and Brent's "departures".
The logic of the OG timeline can really mess one up... ;-)
The ending of BATTLE gives us hope that things will not derail into the events of the first 1968 Apes film. It ends with a question mark. Also, once Zira and Cornelius visited 1973 Earth in ESCAPE, the timeline and sequence of events changed. That's the brilliance of the last three original movies.
Why does Caesar address himself in the first person when he asks for clarification about how the human said, "No"
I remember seeing that movie when I was a kid and I thought it was ok. I should have left it at that because when I watched it again when I was older it was kind of bad. The thing with Macdonald they kind of did with Beneath when they hoped James Franciscus could pass as a low budget Heston. They could have just got an older guy and called him Macdonald and just added a few more years to the time
I enjoyed this movie when I first saw it, but now it's more meh for me.
Though, in history (& including Escape of TPOTA), there are some apes that killed other apes. 🦍
When you think about it we've never seen the original planet of the apes timeline of how things really happened. I thought the ending of the finale showed that it was a split timeline right?
Yep! Escape-Conquest-Battle sets off a separate timeline.
@@Ape-Nation Agreed!
No it's not the worst it's in fact the best for its sentimental value of which starts and finishes with a Lawgiver telling a story to an equal Society of Humans and apes and how they got there to being as such to coin a term.Also how at Malibu Graphics they were just as annoyed by me as they were to have me there for them when They adapted Planet of the apes for their comics and nicely cleared up the time paradoxes to make sense when they seemingly or otherwise didn't make sense going together.
Glad you love it!
Nah, IMHO it was lame. However, compared to the Burton version it was a masterpiece! 😉👍
Although, Aldo was a very one dimensional villain, the film illustrates the beginnings of disunity amongst the apes, and foreshadows the notion that the scholars, and leadership in the future would not be able to curtail the bloodlust of the more militant gorillas by the time of the film Beneath, and makes you question if the future is set or if it can be changed.
It's both the humans fault for creating the ape class/race divisions by what they wore as slaves, and what they were trained to do based on whether you were a chimpanzee, and orangatang, or a gorilla etc., and Caesar's fault for not trying to end the ape class/race divisions after the apes gained freedom.
I always thought it was odd that the apes, and humans were after the nuclear war living in this whole Robinhood's merry men in Sherwood Forest setting with Caesar as a constitutional monarch? I mean with the police state the humans, and apes lived under by 1991, humans that had once been Americans are gonna accept a constitutional monarchy run by apes? You would think they would have opted for some kind of shared democratic body where apes, and humans elected an equal ratio of ape, and human officials to represent them by votes. It makes no sense. It feels like the producers wanted to make it look so much like a tv movie, and cheesy so that audiences would be tired of the franchise, and say no more sequels.
The actor who played Aldo was Claude Akins (pronounced "ache-ins"), not Atkins.
So does this mean Taylor will still arrive later in 3950 or whatever it is to a different Ape city
I have always assumed that the events of Battle would eventually lead to the same events of the original, just taking a different way to get there. So yes.
@@Ape-NationAn interpretation of authors mentioning the gender and race politics of the original human society being recreated once ape society is dominant (orangutans are effete and superior, chimpanzees are scientifically curious) was hopeful that the new timeline introduced by Caesar’s influence would have a more egalitarian approach the next go-around.
With the “shedding of the tear” scene and Lawgiver’s silent asset also suggestive of this?
For me, the ending of this film means we don't know if it will lead to PLANET, and I think that's a perfectly ambiguous end.