Yes, I start with my books in a similar way. I translate every word in the first one or two chapters. Or, if it has no chapters, I translate the first 10 to 15 pages. The first days work is just working through one to three pages. Next day I start with checking that piece of text before moving on. After the initial chapter/pages, I set a limit to how many words I translate per page for the next ten pages, then lower it for the next ten. If I need, I lower it for the next ten. When all that is done, I start the book from the beginning, with all my notes beside me, and work through all the read text. If I need, I do it one or more days, until I feel I got it. Then, I throw myself into the book. I only allow myself to write up three words per page after that, if it isn't making any sense when reading. I translate the words after my reading session, check the sentences they are in... and move on. During the process, I also try to find sentences that are interesting. I jot them down and look at them several times. I have a special notebook for those.
This is so true. Novels take place in a bubble. If you stick to it for a couple of hours, you will start to see that specific setting language getting repeated over and over again and it starts to get easier from there.
Looking up more words in the first chapter is a good idea I'll start doing that. For the book in general though I generally set a limit of words I can look up per page, my limit is 5. If you're constantly searching every word it gets tiring a lot quicker. It's also helpful to start with children's novels
My german level is almost B2 and I am trying to read novels now. I never look up for every word unless it is very crucial to understand the context. While learning English I was reading elementary level versions of well-known books like “The picture of Dorian Gray”, “The Phantom of the Opera” etc, it was super helpful. Would love to find something similar in German.
I'm reading my first novel in Estonian right now. I'm reading 3 or fewer pages a day to make sure I don't get too frustrated. I also have a calendar made out to finishing it (projected at a rate of a chapter a week) to visualize my progress.
I would recommended focusing on the time spent on reading rather than the number of pages. I do that to reading in general. Since not all books are equal in difficulty, nor is every chapter, and nor is every page. Philosophical books/text are the epitome of what I said.
@@solidus2916 Doing things with time limits never seems to go well for me, though I know it works for others. Whenever I set a time limit I end up focusing on the clock and not the activity. As far as consistency of difficulty, I could actually read more than 3 pages, but I've set the limit artificially low to start. The number of pages could be changed to fit the difficulty of the text, and will likely become larger as I become more proficient at reading.
@@barbaricrunner Ah, I see. Since I am terrible at having a routine, the only way I found in which I could accomplish plenty of work is to time every activity I start. Anyhow, good luck with your language learning.
I'm also reading a portuguese book. First time I just went it. Second time I use google translate for the first few pages (which helped me to comfirm some suspicions I had about what I was reading. Now I just try to to read the book loudly so that I may remenber it easier.
Excellent advice! 😀 I'm reading the book in Turkish and I'm a beginner. My only fear is falling behind the group. I do have the English version so if I have to I can switch to it. At the rate I'm going I'll be done in 1.6 years. 🤣 1,000 people, woah!! That'll be one full Zoom meeting lol. 💕❤️💕❤️
I've often wondered if authors don't write the first chapter using more complex vocabulary, grammar, techniques etc. It's just mind blowing how I will struggle through the first chapter(s) of a book but after 50 pages or so when I've totally lost patience and declared I am not going to use my dictionary unless I really need it, I find I really don't need it for some strange reason. And it's mind blowing to compare how lost I was in the first chapter(s). I've done the jumping from book to book technique too as a low intermediate (or maybe even high beginner) trying to break into reading novels in a language. Once you finally finish your first novel it's a huge relief.
Usually I don't read novels as part of my study , so what I do is simply extensive reading. With some languages I was pretty advanced when I read my first novel in those languages (B2/C1) and could follow effortlessly. The only time I really struggled was when I tried to read a novel in Hebrew as a B1 learner. THAT was tough but still I did not look up all the words in a dictionary. In my humble opinion this spoils all the fun. Moreover as you just said, the words are likely to appear again in the next chapters so I tend to figure them out through the context. And of course I never panic while reading because this is something I do for fun.
Reading a foreign language novel is by far best in a tablet reader. I use moon reader plus, which works great. You can highlight a paragraph, click on dict, and get a (typically) perfect translation of the paragraph. Even for intermediate readers - like me - it is invaluable at times. For beginners I don't see another way. I would not even think of reading a spanish book in paper. German is fine for me, but spanish not a chance.
I went through the same process! Though not intentionally. During my studying of French, I periodically tried to read L'etranger by Albert Camus, but the first few times I gave up after chapter 1. I shelved the book for a couple months and just studied otherwise, came back, and suddenly chapter one wasn't nearly as difficult, and by chapter 3 or 4, I was reading at a much faster pace! It's also a pretty short book, so it wasn't as intimidating as a lot of books can be. Now I'm reading El Laberinto de la Soledad by Octavia Paz and am reading chapter 1 for the third time and hopefully will make it all the way through this time.
@@studywithlore7117 es dificil leer todos los días, pero tambien mi objectivo es leer en Español un poco cada día. Por supuesto tu Ingles es mucho más avanzado que mi Español, entonces leo lecturas graduadas, no novelas verdaderas.
@@studywithlore7117 thank you, that's so sweet! I'm really shy about my bad Spanish, but I'm following your channel now so I'll come say hi sometime :)
I read this book (in English) a while back. Which probably makes it a good book to read in French (which I'm learning). I've read several Marc Levy books in French...they're relatively short, engaging and the language isn't too complex. I've also read some of the Georges Simenon books in French having read the English translation before. Again they are short, engaging and the language isn't too complex.
I recommend to combine the book with audio files. This could be an official audiobook that is sold in mp3 format, or you could ask a native speaker to create a recording for you. In either case you should be able to cut the files into small section, that you can listen to on repeat later. (A slow and a normal version would be ideal.) Personally I prefer digital books, because I can copy and print the text and write the literal translation below. It also allows you to add furigana to the kanji, if you are reading something in Japanese.
I had to upload a private video for a business challenge yesterday, and it took 4-5 hours to do a minute and 40 seconds. I can’t imagine what you go through with these longer videos--but I’m so glad you do!!! ᏩᎳ (WADO, thank you in Cherokee) for giving so generously of your time to us, @Robin MacPherson. ❤️❤️❤️
Thanks for this great strategy, Robin! One thing I decided to do before tackling my first novel in Turkish is to listen to and transcribe a TH-cam video with a summary and critic of the novel. This may not always be available, but whenever it is, it can be a good strategy to prepare and ease our way into a book in a foreign language.
Hey @@vaishnaviayyar8199 I mostly studied on my own. At some point, I began having weekly conversation practice with a tutor for about a year; that was very helpful in consolidating what I had learned. Are you studying or interested in studying Turkish?
Really great inspirational advice and makes so much sense: "Don't worry about the complexity of the whole book. Just read thoroughly(!) the first chapter and all the rest will be much much easier because you get familiar with lexicon!" Love this strategy!
Interesting. I am more used to read without researching unknown words, and try to get the feel of things without worrying about the details now. But I can see how relevant this advice is if the book is rather challenging for the reader. :) I guess that's why teachers always give basic comprehension questions to students when we study a book/text at firts: to make sure that we got the fondamental details of the setting (place, time, who, what and why) so that we can have a solid reading on.
I have read so many books cover to cover in a single sitting, I used to be an avid reader. Life and internet access happened, and for the last 5 years or so, reading has fallen away, and it was a bit frustrating to return to. It took me a little over 3 months to complete my first book in Swedish, because I was working full-time and pretty much looking up 10 words per page. (It was the first book of the Percy Jackson series, and very fun) The second book has gone much better, since I am much more relaxed, I'm not looking anything up, and I'm listening to the audiobook at the same time. As long as I have a general sense of the plot, I am happy. This is a much higher level book, but fun too. (Hundraåringen by Jonas Jonasson) I'll be re-reading both eventually, especially since it will take a while before I can get the next books of the Percy Jackson series. TLDR: I can confirm that at first reading books is difficult, but it gets easier, especially if you can let go of knowing every word, as long as you understand what is happening.
I prefer to read short stories at this stage of my life including in my native language because I often have to set aside a book for a long time before picking it up again. I imagine that's similar to Robin's reading the first 10 pages of zillions of books. But you do still get something of a feeling of accomplishment when you complete one.
The funny thing is I don't like short stories (for foreign language study), because if your level is a little low, you don't really get any benefit from them. What I mean is, when you read a novel, the first 20 pages are pretty confusing, you have to handle a lot of information and get into the vibe. But after the first few pages, you're pretty familiar with the overall context and vibe of the story and that puts you in a position to accurately guess what's going to happen next and to understand and enjoy the story that much more for the next 100+ pages. Whereas in a short story, you struggle almost equally for the first few pages and then boom, the story's over, you don't get to use what you've learned to better understand what comes next because nothing comes next.
Happy monday!!!! Let's go!creo que esa novela es interesante. La cuestion es el vocabulario . No tengo problema en entenderlo pero es abrumador si lo llevo a otro idioma...
One of my favorite books in English. I'd love to read this in Spanish IF I can find it at the library. My library doesn't have any copies right now They're all checked out - even the E-Books.
That's an interesting strategy. So far I haven't needed it. For me so far there have only been two different ways of going about reading a novel. When I'm at an intermediary level (or higher), everything may feel very confusing at first, but if I read consistently every day, after about 20 to 50 pages, it's like my brain simply puts all the pieces together so that everything starts making perfect sense and then I'm good to go for the rest of the story. And when I'm at a lower level, like right now probably an A2 in Finnish, I've found that the only way is bilingual reading all the way. Like, right now, I'm reading Harry Potter in Finnish, and that's a book I already knew and had been wanting to re-read, so I already know the story, but still, nothing I read seems to make any sense to me. So I need to refer back to the English version all the time, even now when I'm 2/3 of the way through book one. So since I got to look up the translation all the time, I take this opportunity to write it down to study/revise later and that's what helps me make progress right now. That being said, I do intend on getting back to German soon and getting started on Italian (Il nome della rosa, can't wait!). I might give your strategy a try when I get there.
I'm currently reading a book in Faroese with letters that two little girls send to each other. Each letter is just one page long so I can read one or two a day and also focus on those two pages to get the most out of it.
I started yesterday with the Die Shatten des Windes, and i felt a bit overwhelmed after i read a few pages that i closed the book *cough*illegal epub* cought* inmediately. But I will give it another try with that technique you suggest. Wish me luck.
Recién acabo de terminar de leer ese libro. Soy español, tengo 30 años de edad y antes de leer ese libro había leído un total de 19 libros en toda mi vida, todos en español. Al terminar de leer la novela me encontré con un total de 526 palabras nuevas, que divididas entre el número de páginas que tiene el libro resulta un promedio de 0,966 palabras nuevas por página. La sucesión de palabras nuevas por cada 50 páginas fue la siguiente: - primeras 50 páginas: 83 palabras. - segundas 50 páginas: 70 palabras. - terceras 50 páginas: 74 palabras. -cuartas 50 páginas: 54 palabras. -quintas 50 páginas: 49 palabras. - sextas 50 páginas: 73 palabras. - séptimas 50 páginas: 40 palabras. - octavas 50 páginas: 22 palabras. - novenas 50 páginas: 27 palabras. - décimas 50 páginas: 17 palabras. - últimas 44,5 páginas: 18 palabras. La verdad es que es una barbaridad la cantidad de palabras nuevas para tratarse de una novela escrita en mi lengua materna. He anotado todas esas palabras en una lista y se la he pasado a una amiga mía que también es española y tiene la misma edad que yo, pero ha leído más libros que yo, y le pedí que me filtrara aquellas palabras que no conocía. La lista se redujo a la mitad. Luego hablando con otros 3 adultos les nombré algunas palabras de la lista (en torno a 30) y les pregunté si sabían su significado, y para mi sorpresa se sabían el significado de la mayoría de ellas. Así que parece ser que yo tengo un vocabulario relativamente inferior comparado con otros españoles nativos. Ahora estoy leyendo mi primer libro en inglés: '12 rules for life' (de Jordan Peterson). Es un ensayo. En las primeras 50 páginas me he encontrado 61 palabras nuevas, mucho menos que las 83 que me encontré leyendo las primeras 50 páginas de 'La sombra del viento' en español. Esto demuestra que leer novelas es mucho más difícil que leer ensayos, por dos razones: por un lado, en las novelas se emplea mucho más vocabulario para describir paisajes, escenarios y cosas físicas, puesto que el autor debe describir físicamente la escena para que el lector pueda visualizar lo que lee, cosa que no ocurre en los ensayos puesto que en estos últimos el autor simplemente se dedica a discutir sobre un tema concreto. Y por otro lado, también sucede que en las novelas los autores abusan de metáforas y vocabulario sumamente adornado, literario y poético, puesto que la literatura es un arte, mientras que en los ensayos el autor no se preocupa por la estética de su prosa. Este vídeo es de hace 3 años. How did that reading go, Robin?
I just finished my first Chinese novel from Marc Levy 幸福的另一种含义 (345 pages) I love your strategy reading the first chapter very thoroughly. Sounds very logical. I will definitely do it with my next novel :)
Thanks so much for this video and for organizing the book club. I have been studying Spanish for many years and consider myself an advanced learner. That being said, I have had this book for a while and have tried to read it and have given up several times. I am soo that person who you described jumps from book to book because it is always "too difficult." Super excited to try your method and see how it goes!
Thanks for the great advice Robin. Your book reading strategies perfectly suit my way of learning. I'm really looking forward to the book club experience! : )
Woohoo! Official kick off soon! I might go through the first chapter in advance so I can hit the ground running. I've already read about 3 pages and was worried about it being too difficult (Antoine Laurent and Gregoire Delacourt scared me off actual novels for a while haha) but this seems the perfect level for me. Looking forward to it!
I feel like the worst thing we can do when reading a novel is translating every single word and trying to understand everything...because it just prevents us from getting in the flow and it's just not fun to read that way. And if we don't enjoy it, we'll probably loose motivation and stop reading. Sure, we want to learn a language as efficiently as possible but in this case keeping the motivation high is more important. But of course, paying more attention at the beginning and writing down words that occur often totally makes sense!
I absolutely agree with you and I know that not worrying about understanding everything is definitely what works best for me. However, I know some people who have a good enough level in a foreign language but have never managed reading a novel in that language because they have a low tolerance to not understanding every single word. It's funny how we're all different!
This method of trying to understand 100% percent comprehension by looking up each and every single word. And also trying to read something that is too advanced and overwhelmingly difficult for you, something that is too beyond your current level are probably the worst learning method i can think of for learning a foreign language.
I’d encourage you to see what you can do in it anyway. I’m not even at full A1 in Norwegian yet and I’m going to do it. I may not get it all, but I tend to not re-read books because I can remember most of it after the first read. I’m looking forward to reading it now, and then re-reading when I get to B1.
Is signed in for the book club right after you had first announced it. If I haven't received a message, does that mean it didn't work or do I just need to be more patient?
I recommend A Series of Unfortunate Events, it's a pretty easy reading level and they're entertaining. My first book in Spanish was that book translated into English
When I was studying Swedish at the university, we had to read novels in Swedish in the third year. I felt like it was way too soon and I was nowhere near ready, but I had to if I wanted to get my diploma. So I struggled a lot at first, but because I didn't have much of a choice, I persisted, and that's when I discovered that contrary to what I thought, I was actually already able to read a novel in Swedish, understand it and enjoy it. That's probably the most powerful thing I ever learned about language learning. Sometimes, you think you can't, but you can. Of course, sometimes, you think you can't, and you really can't, but after seven years, I would definitely give reading books a try, at least if you enjoy reading books. What I've found is that for me, reading a longer book about a subject I enjoy works a hundred times better than reading a short book I don't really care about.
This is pretty tough to follow, but let me see if I’ve got this right. When you start reading a novel in a foreign language, you start in the first chapter. Who would ever have thought of that? I’m in!
I am B1 German, and it is possible at this level, although I have many unknown words, I can understand the main point in a page. It is challenging, I just need to find a way to enjoy it..
Ehy Robin, I'd be glad to host you on my channel (italian language students) and it would be amazing to talk about some polyglot techniques to approach Italian (and latins) language :) Hope to hear from you soon, Thanks :)
I have a small collection, because I’m reading primarily in Spanish and German, but also French and Dutch as time goes on. So I was similarly worried when my German copy never showed up, as my plan involves reading it before catching up with English or doing the other two. I ended up panicking and buying the Kindle version off Amazon tonight.
I'm sorry everyone! I have finally returned from my long walk to upload another video. I've reflected a lot and promise to be better! ☕️☕️☕️ ☕️🧘🏻♂️☕️ ☕️☕️☕️
Sorry: reading a novel is one of the EASIEST things to do in a foreign language! Easier than listening to the novel as an audio book. Easier than listening to the news. Easier than making sense out of headlines. WAY easier than a conversation. Way WAY easier than a phone conversation. Though I agree: staying with the same novel and/or author is easier than doing the first 10 pages of many different things!!!
You realise that you and your experience isn’t representative of everyone else’s right? Are you really so narcissistic? Different people learn and understand languages differently. And it’s okay. You’ll survive the horror of that knowledge somehow, I’m sure.
@@sandrafowke That's been my experience, and I'm sticking with it. No doubt it has something to do with reading in "related" foreign languages (Spanish from English, French from English + Spanish), and with having several different points of access to the romance roots in the related languages. BUT it also has to do with more universal characteristics of reading: one can take reading at one's own pace (not the pace of the reader or speaker), one can go back and reconstrue in light of a subsequent clause or sentence. These are true of reading generally, i.e. whether one is reading in a "related" language or not. Casual conversations (and the same in movies, etc) are generally much simpler than most prose, in both vocabulary and structure (though slang presents its own issues). But IF one is dealing with equally difficult material, I will assert that it is easier when it is on the page, because one can take one's time and/or loop back, than when it is delivered at speed and is GONE.
Yes, I start with my books in a similar way. I translate every word in the first one or two chapters. Or, if it has no chapters, I translate the first 10 to 15 pages. The first days work is just working through one to three pages. Next day I start with checking that piece of text before moving on.
After the initial chapter/pages, I set a limit to how many words I translate per page for the next ten pages, then lower it for the next ten. If I need, I lower it for the next ten. When all that is done, I start the book from the beginning, with all my notes beside me, and work through all the read text. If I need, I do it one or more days, until I feel I got it.
Then, I throw myself into the book. I only allow myself to write up three words per page after that, if it isn't making any sense when reading. I translate the words after my reading session, check the sentences they are in... and move on.
During the process, I also try to find sentences that are interesting. I jot them down and look at them several times. I have a special notebook for those.
This is so true. Novels take place in a bubble. If you stick to it for a couple of hours, you will start to see that specific setting language getting repeated over and over again and it starts to get easier from there.
Looking up more words in the first chapter is a good idea I'll start doing that. For the book in general though I generally set a limit of words I can look up per page, my limit is 5. If you're constantly searching every word it gets tiring a lot quicker. It's also helpful to start with children's novels
How to read a book: start with chapter one (c) Robin
I wish somebody would have told me that earlier
This changes everything.
I've read that book many times, it is one of the most incredible books ever written in Spanish.
My german level is almost B2 and I am trying to read novels now. I never look up for every word unless it is very crucial to understand the context. While learning English I was reading elementary level versions of well-known books like “The picture of Dorian Gray”, “The Phantom of the Opera” etc, it was super helpful. Would love to find something similar in German.
Me just thinking about starting reading plan...
Robin: HOW TO START READING A NOVEL!!
I'm reading my first novel in Estonian right now. I'm reading 3 or fewer pages a day to make sure I don't get too frustrated. I also have a calendar made out to finishing it (projected at a rate of a chapter a week) to visualize my progress.
I would recommended focusing on the time spent on reading rather than the number of pages. I do that to reading in general. Since not all books are equal in difficulty, nor is every chapter, and nor is every page. Philosophical books/text are the epitome of what I said.
@@solidus2916 Doing things with time limits never seems to go well for me, though I know it works for others. Whenever I set a time limit I end up focusing on the clock and not the activity. As far as consistency of difficulty, I could actually read more than 3 pages, but I've set the limit artificially low to start. The number of pages could be changed to fit the difficulty of the text, and will likely become larger as I become more proficient at reading.
@@barbaricrunner Ah, I see. Since I am terrible at having a routine, the only way I found in which I could accomplish plenty of work is to time every activity I start. Anyhow, good luck with your language learning.
@@solidus2916 Thanks!
@@barbaricrunner My pleasure
I’m reading a book in Portuguese and the first chapter is indeed difficult, but my experience is that once the dialogs start it gets easier.
I'm also reading a portuguese book.
First time I just went it.
Second time I use google translate for the first few pages (which helped me to comfirm some suspicions I had about what I was reading.
Now I just try to to read the book loudly so that I may remenber it easier.
Boa sorte!
I followed your first chapter tips from another video that you did - it's so helpful, I highly recommend it!
Excellent advice! 😀 I'm reading the book in Turkish and I'm a beginner. My only fear is falling behind the group. I do have the English version so if I have to I can switch to it. At the rate I'm going I'll be done in 1.6 years. 🤣 1,000 people, woah!! That'll be one full Zoom meeting lol. 💕❤️💕❤️
I've often wondered if authors don't write the first chapter using more complex vocabulary, grammar, techniques etc. It's just mind blowing how I will struggle through the first chapter(s) of a book but after 50 pages or so when I've totally lost patience and declared I am not going to use my dictionary unless I really need it, I find I really don't need it for some strange reason. And it's mind blowing to compare how lost I was in the first chapter(s). I've done the jumping from book to book technique too as a low intermediate (or maybe even high beginner) trying to break into reading novels in a language. Once you finally finish your first novel it's a huge relief.
Thank you for this tip that I am going to use for my first book in Arabic 👍
NO FREAKIN WAY!!! I just started reading this book in spanish 2 days ago🤣🤣🤣
Usually I don't read novels as part of my study , so what I do is simply extensive reading. With some languages I was pretty advanced when I read my first novel in those languages (B2/C1) and could follow effortlessly. The only time I really struggled was when I tried to read a novel in Hebrew as a B1 learner. THAT was tough but still I did not look up all the words in a dictionary. In my humble opinion this spoils all the fun.
Moreover as you just said, the words are likely to appear again in the next chapters so I tend to figure them out through the context. And of course I never panic while reading because this is something I do for fun.
Reading a foreign language novel is by far best in a tablet reader. I use moon reader plus, which works great. You can highlight a paragraph, click on dict, and get a (typically) perfect translation of the paragraph. Even for intermediate readers - like me - it is invaluable at times. For beginners I don't see another way. I would not even think of reading a spanish book in paper. German is fine for me, but spanish not a chance.
estoy muy emocionada para empezar a leer todos juntos !
@Random Hola! Me alegría mucho escuchar esto! muchas gracias! Saludos desde Argel.
I went through the same process! Though not intentionally.
During my studying of French, I periodically tried to read L'etranger by Albert Camus, but the first few times I gave up after chapter 1.
I shelved the book for a couple months and just studied otherwise, came back, and suddenly chapter one wasn't nearly as difficult, and by chapter 3 or 4, I was reading at a much faster pace!
It's also a pretty short book, so it wasn't as intimidating as a lot of books can be.
Now I'm reading El Laberinto de la Soledad by Octavia Paz and am reading chapter 1 for the third time and hopefully will make it all the way through this time.
I listen to you to learn English. I love your videos
¡Que libro! Mi primer hija se llama Wilhelmina porque Dracula.
@@ADHDlanguages Esta increible el libro, no me podido leerlo todos los días, pero realmente me encanta.
@@studywithlore7117 es dificil leer todos los días, pero tambien mi objectivo es leer en Español un poco cada día. Por supuesto tu Ingles es mucho más avanzado que mi Español, entonces leo lecturas graduadas, no novelas verdaderas.
@@ADHDlanguages Te deseo muchos exitos aprendiendo español. Si algún día quieres practicar español, puedes contactarme sin problemas.
Saludos!
@@studywithlore7117 thank you, that's so sweet! I'm really shy about my bad Spanish, but I'm following your channel now so I'll come say hi sometime :)
I read this book (in English) a while back. Which probably makes it a good book to read in French (which I'm learning). I've read several Marc Levy books in French...they're relatively short, engaging and the language isn't too complex. I've also read some of the Georges Simenon books in French having read the English translation before. Again they are short, engaging and the language isn't too complex.
Great advice! 😁
I’m so glad you found it helpful!
I recommend to combine the book with audio files. This could be an official audiobook that is sold in mp3 format, or you could ask a native speaker to create a recording for you. In either case you should be able to cut the files into small section, that you can listen to on repeat later. (A slow and a normal version would be ideal.)
Personally I prefer digital books, because I can copy and print the text and write the literal translation below. It also allows you to add furigana to the kanji, if you are reading something in Japanese.
It's in audio on TH-cam.
@@klarity1111
This was more a general recommendation. I wasn't really talking about that book in particular. ;)
I had to upload a private video for a business challenge yesterday, and it took 4-5 hours to do a minute and 40 seconds. I can’t imagine what you go through with these longer videos--but I’m so glad you do!!! ᏩᎳ (WADO, thank you in Cherokee) for giving so generously of your time to us, @Robin MacPherson. ❤️❤️❤️
Wow, this sounds like something I have to try out. I usually wait until I understand most of the text by myself cause I hate looking up words.
Woohoo! Please keep me posted on how it goes, I'd love for this to end up being a really helpful method for you!
Thanks for this great strategy, Robin! One thing I decided to do before tackling my first novel in Turkish is to listen to and transcribe a TH-cam video with a summary and critic of the novel. This may not always be available, but whenever it is, it can be a good strategy to prepare and ease our way into a book in a foreign language.
@ryeretsian where did you learn Turkish
Hey @@vaishnaviayyar8199 I mostly studied on my own. At some point, I began having weekly conversation practice with a tutor for about a year; that was very helpful in consolidating what I had learned. Are you studying or interested in studying Turkish?
Really great inspirational advice and makes so much sense: "Don't worry about the complexity of the whole book. Just read thoroughly(!) the first chapter and all the rest will be much much easier because you get familiar with lexicon!" Love this strategy!
👍
Interesting. I am more used to read without researching unknown words, and try to get the feel of things without worrying about the details now. But I can see how relevant this advice is if the book is rather challenging for the reader. :)
I guess that's why teachers always give basic comprehension questions to students when we study a book/text at firts: to make sure that we got the fondamental details of the setting (place, time, who, what and why) so that we can have a solid reading on.
I have read so many books cover to cover in a single sitting, I used to be an avid reader. Life and internet access happened, and for the last 5 years or so, reading has fallen away, and it was a bit frustrating to return to.
It took me a little over 3 months to complete my first book in Swedish, because I was working full-time and pretty much looking up 10 words per page. (It was the first book of the Percy Jackson series, and very fun)
The second book has gone much better, since I am much more relaxed, I'm not looking anything up, and I'm listening to the audiobook at the same time. As long as I have a general sense of the plot, I am happy. This is a much higher level book, but fun too. (Hundraåringen by Jonas Jonasson) I'll be re-reading both eventually, especially since it will take a while before I can get the next books of the Percy Jackson series.
TLDR: I can confirm that at first reading books is difficult, but it gets easier, especially if you can let go of knowing every word, as long as you understand what is happening.
I prefer to read short stories at this stage of my life including in my native language because I often have to set aside a book for a long time before picking it up again. I imagine that's similar to Robin's reading the first 10 pages of zillions of books. But you do still get something of a feeling of accomplishment when you complete one.
The funny thing is I don't like short stories (for foreign language study), because if your level is a little low, you don't really get any benefit from them. What I mean is, when you read a novel, the first 20 pages are pretty confusing, you have to handle a lot of information and get into the vibe. But after the first few pages, you're pretty familiar with the overall context and vibe of the story and that puts you in a position to accurately guess what's going to happen next and to understand and enjoy the story that much more for the next 100+ pages. Whereas in a short story, you struggle almost equally for the first few pages and then boom, the story's over, you don't get to use what you've learned to better understand what comes next because nothing comes next.
@@elisabethrichard don’t agree there’s no benefit. You benefit from struggling. If you’re mostly reading stuff you already know there’s less benefit.
Happy monday!!!! Let's go!creo que esa novela es interesante. La cuestion es el vocabulario . No tengo problema en entenderlo pero es abrumador si lo llevo a otro idioma...
One of my favorite books in English. I'd love to read this in Spanish IF I can find it at the library. My library doesn't have any copies right now They're all checked out - even the E-Books.
That's an interesting strategy. So far I haven't needed it. For me so far there have only been two different ways of going about reading a novel.
When I'm at an intermediary level (or higher), everything may feel very confusing at first, but if I read consistently every day, after about 20 to 50 pages, it's like my brain simply puts all the pieces together so that everything starts making perfect sense and then I'm good to go for the rest of the story.
And when I'm at a lower level, like right now probably an A2 in Finnish, I've found that the only way is bilingual reading all the way. Like, right now, I'm reading Harry Potter in Finnish, and that's a book I already knew and had been wanting to re-read, so I already know the story, but still, nothing I read seems to make any sense to me. So I need to refer back to the English version all the time, even now when I'm 2/3 of the way through book one. So since I got to look up the translation all the time, I take this opportunity to write it down to study/revise later and that's what helps me make progress right now.
That being said, I do intend on getting back to German soon and getting started on Italian (Il nome della rosa, can't wait!). I might give your strategy a try when I get there.
I'm currently reading a book in Faroese with letters that two little girls send to each other. Each letter is just one page long so I can read one or two a day and also focus on those two pages to get the most out of it.
I started yesterday with the Die Shatten des Windes, and i felt a bit overwhelmed after i read a few pages that i closed the book *cough*illegal epub* cought* inmediately. But I will give it another try with that technique you suggest. Wish me luck.
Recién acabo de terminar de leer ese libro. Soy español, tengo 30 años de edad y antes de leer ese libro había leído un total de 19 libros en toda mi vida, todos en español. Al terminar de leer la novela me encontré con un total de 526 palabras nuevas, que divididas entre el número de páginas que tiene el libro resulta un promedio de 0,966 palabras nuevas por página. La sucesión de palabras nuevas por cada 50 páginas fue la siguiente:
- primeras 50 páginas: 83 palabras.
- segundas 50 páginas: 70 palabras.
- terceras 50 páginas: 74 palabras.
-cuartas 50 páginas: 54 palabras.
-quintas 50 páginas: 49 palabras.
- sextas 50 páginas: 73 palabras.
- séptimas 50 páginas: 40 palabras.
- octavas 50 páginas: 22 palabras.
- novenas 50 páginas: 27 palabras.
- décimas 50 páginas: 17 palabras.
- últimas 44,5 páginas: 18 palabras.
La verdad es que es una barbaridad la cantidad de palabras nuevas para tratarse de una novela escrita en mi lengua materna. He anotado todas esas palabras en una lista y se la he pasado a una amiga mía que también es española y tiene la misma edad que yo, pero ha leído más libros que yo, y le pedí que me filtrara aquellas palabras que no conocía. La lista se redujo a la mitad. Luego hablando con otros 3 adultos les nombré algunas palabras de la lista (en torno a 30) y les pregunté si sabían su significado, y para mi sorpresa se sabían el significado de la mayoría de ellas. Así que parece ser que yo tengo un vocabulario relativamente inferior comparado con otros españoles nativos.
Ahora estoy leyendo mi primer libro en inglés: '12 rules for life' (de Jordan Peterson). Es un ensayo. En las primeras 50 páginas me he encontrado 61 palabras nuevas, mucho menos que las 83 que me encontré leyendo las primeras 50 páginas de 'La sombra del viento' en español. Esto demuestra que leer novelas es mucho más difícil que leer ensayos, por dos razones: por un lado, en las novelas se emplea mucho más vocabulario para describir paisajes, escenarios y cosas físicas, puesto que el autor debe describir físicamente la escena para que el lector pueda visualizar lo que lee, cosa que no ocurre en los ensayos puesto que en estos últimos el autor simplemente se dedica a discutir sobre un tema concreto. Y por otro lado, también sucede que en las novelas los autores abusan de metáforas y vocabulario sumamente adornado, literario y poético, puesto que la literatura es un arte, mientras que en los ensayos el autor no se preocupa por la estética de su prosa.
Este vídeo es de hace 3 años. How did that reading go, Robin?
I just finished my first Chinese novel from Marc Levy 幸福的另一种含义 (345 pages) I love your strategy reading the first chapter very thoroughly. Sounds very logical. I will definitely do it with my next novel :)
Thanks so much for this video and for organizing the book club. I have been studying Spanish for many years and consider myself an advanced learner. That being said, I have had this book for a while and have tried to read it and have given up several times. I am soo that person who you described jumps from book to book because it is always "too difficult." Super excited to try your method and see how it goes!
Very good point!!! I can't wait to start!
Thanks for the great advice Robin. Your book reading strategies perfectly suit my way of learning.
I'm really looking forward to the book club experience! : )
Woohoo! Official kick off soon! I might go through the first chapter in advance so I can hit the ground running. I've already read about 3 pages and was worried about it being too difficult (Antoine Laurent and Gregoire Delacourt scared me off actual novels for a while haha) but this seems the perfect level for me. Looking forward to it!
Seriously, though, first chapter is quite often insurmountable
True dat
I feel like the worst thing we can do when reading a novel is translating every single word and trying to understand everything...because it just prevents us from getting in the flow and it's just not fun to read that way. And if we don't enjoy it, we'll probably loose motivation and stop reading. Sure, we want to learn a language as efficiently as possible but in this case keeping the motivation high is more important. But of course, paying more attention at the beginning and writing down words that occur often totally makes sense!
I absolutely agree with you and I know that not worrying about understanding everything is definitely what works best for me. However, I know some people who have a good enough level in a foreign language but have never managed reading a novel in that language because they have a low tolerance to not understanding every single word. It's funny how we're all different!
This method of trying to understand 100% percent comprehension by looking up each and every single word. And also trying to read something that is too advanced and overwhelmingly difficult for you, something that is too beyond your current level are probably the worst learning method i can think of for learning a foreign language.
I wanna read in Spanish I have 5 graded readers at B1 and so I'm not quite at the stage of novels, but soon.
I’d encourage you to see what you can do in it anyway. I’m not even at full A1 in Norwegian yet and I’m going to do it. I may not get it all, but I tend to not re-read books because I can remember most of it after the first read. I’m looking forward to reading it now, and then re-reading when I get to B1.
@@schoolingdiana9086 That's a good idea, maybe I'll give it a shot though I'm enjoying my B1 graded reader it is relatively comfortably but slow.
I didn’t even know about this book club thing but I actually own la sombre del viento so this is cool
I have the book and I’m ready...
Yeah me too :-))))
It is.. I'm having both native- and target language...
@@birgitbrodde7547 So do I. Enjoy!
Hi! Is the book club free? Thanks in advance
Excellent idea! I need to try that!
Should I write the notes in my mother language or in the one I am studying?
How many words should a person know to tackle a novel in a new language?
5000
Is signed in for the book club right after you had first announced it. If I haven't received a message, does that mean it didn't work or do I just need to be more patient?
Same
I have never read a single book in English, and it's almost my seventh year leaning English. 😭
Time to read! You can do it! 🤓
You should read. Where are you from?
@@erturtemirbaev5207 Pakistan
I recommend A Series of Unfortunate Events, it's a pretty easy reading level and they're entertaining. My first book in Spanish was that book translated into English
When I was studying Swedish at the university, we had to read novels in Swedish in the third year. I felt like it was way too soon and I was nowhere near ready, but I had to if I wanted to get my diploma. So I struggled a lot at first, but because I didn't have much of a choice, I persisted, and that's when I discovered that contrary to what I thought, I was actually already able to read a novel in Swedish, understand it and enjoy it. That's probably the most powerful thing I ever learned about language learning. Sometimes, you think you can't, but you can. Of course, sometimes, you think you can't, and you really can't, but after seven years, I would definitely give reading books a try, at least if you enjoy reading books. What I've found is that for me, reading a longer book about a subject I enjoy works a hundred times better than reading a short book I don't really care about.
What is the title of the French book you mentioned?
Excellent tip! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Would you say that it also applies to nonfiction? 🤓
This is pretty tough to follow, but let me see if I’ve got this right. When you start reading a novel in a foreign language, you start in the first chapter. Who would ever have thought of that? I’m in!
You missed all the main points unfortunately, Dave. Good luck, though! 🙂
Hi Robin, I am wondering what language level you think a person needs to be at in order to read a novel in their target language?
I am B1 German, and it is possible at this level, although I have many unknown words, I can understand the main point in a page. It is challenging, I just need to find a way to enjoy it..
I'm scare to try it because it will be stressful 🤣🤣🤣😂😂
No coffee? :(
I signed up for your book club a few days ago, but I haven't received a single letter from you. Maybe I did something wrong?
Ehy Robin, I'd be glad to host you on my channel (italian language students) and it would be amazing to talk about some polyglot techniques to approach Italian (and latins) language :)
Hope to hear from you soon, Thanks :)
subtitulos por favor
I hope mine arrives before the book club starts, still isn't here. :(
I have a small collection, because I’m reading primarily in Spanish and German, but also French and Dutch as time goes on. So I was similarly worried when my German copy never showed up, as my plan involves reading it before catching up with English or doing the other two. I ended up panicking and buying the Kindle version off Amazon tonight.
@@Cenlyra Mine arrived today :D
I could not get the name of the book!
_The Shadow of the Wind_
Novel by Carlos Ruiz Zafón
that walk better be 15km long so you have time to think about it. Don’t you dare not drink coffee on video ever again
Could have just pretend sipped an empty cup
@@tommyhuffman7499 And told us it was empty so we could be in on the fun haha
@@tommyhuffman7499 exactly
I'm sorry everyone! I have finally returned from my long walk to upload another video. I've reflected a lot and promise to be better!
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☕️🧘🏻♂️☕️
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No coffee?! 😯😳
Tsking so long to stsrt... Already done with the book lol
Sorry: reading a novel is one of the EASIEST things to do in a foreign language! Easier than listening to the novel as an audio book. Easier than listening to the news. Easier than making sense out of headlines. WAY easier than a conversation. Way WAY easier than a phone conversation. Though I agree: staying with the same novel and/or author is easier than doing the first 10 pages of many different things!!!
You realise that you and your experience isn’t representative of everyone else’s right? Are you really so narcissistic? Different people learn and understand languages differently. And it’s okay. You’ll survive the horror of that knowledge somehow, I’m sure.
@@sandrafowke That's been my experience, and I'm sticking with it. No doubt it has something to do with reading in "related" foreign languages (Spanish from English, French from English + Spanish), and with having several different points of access to the romance roots in the related languages.
BUT it also has to do with more universal characteristics of reading: one can take reading at one's own pace (not the pace of the reader or speaker), one can go back and reconstrue in light of a subsequent clause or sentence. These are true of reading generally, i.e. whether one is reading in a "related" language or not. Casual conversations (and the same in movies, etc) are generally much simpler than most prose, in both vocabulary and structure (though slang presents its own issues). But IF one is dealing with equally difficult material, I will assert that it is easier when it is on the page, because one can take one's time and/or loop back, than when it is delivered at speed and is GONE.
Non me ne frega un cazzo di imparare quello che so giá. E' no.