Part one of my Magical Secrets videos In this video I discuss my favorite picks for a 10th level Bard's Magical Secrets The other parts of this video discuss: 14th level Magical Secrets picks: th-cam.com/video/IZWLEyI4Ikk/w-d-xo.html 18th level Magical Secrets picks: th-cam.com/video/A7Qkaz1FCpE/w-d-xo.html Lore Bard 6th level Magical Secrets picks: th-cam.com/video/d4bLK_V11UQ/w-d-xo.html What are your favorite magical secrets picks? What did I miss?
2:31 Wall of Force 5:43 Counterspell 7:06 Find Greater Steed 9:05 Destructive Wave 10:24 Transmute Rock 12:24 Telekinesis and Spiritual Weapon 16:03 Don't take Swift Quiver
I'm gonna put it out there that Magical Secrets spells count as bard spells for you, meaning you can ritual cast them, so don't rule out Rary's Telepathic Bond and Commune.
Counter argument: When you use telekinesis on a carpet people are standing on you don't get people riding a flying carpet, you get a flying bag full of people.
Little trick I saw on a forum once for Counterspell on bards. If you pick up Glibness you essentially automatically always counter a spell. Glibness allows you to turn any charisma roll into a 15. So 15 + 5 (Charisma) + 2-3 (Jack of All trades)= Minimum 22. Meaning you can counter up to 12th level magic. It is a bit of a hefty investment with an 8th level spell slot but being able to negate every spell cast by an enemy for the minimum spell slot possible can pay dividends in certain encounters.
Yes, though that requires casting an 8th level spell beforehand for setup. Maybe worth it if you know you are going into a fight with a high level spellcaster and expect to be counterspelling high level spells a lot. Bards are actually already pretty good with Counterspell even without Glibness because of Jack of All Trades.
By the time you get level 8 spells you probably have maxed charisma so that is +5 then +2-3 from JOAT thats +8 to your d20 roll and if you need you can throw in an inspiration for another d12. Seems like a steep cost when you only get 1 level 8 slot. Unless you know the big bads in your campaign are magic users it seems costly. But it is definitely a way to totally break the game.
Maybe it is just me, but I would like a small 10 Sec recap at the end. Like: so my tips are Wall of Force, Counterspell etc etc. Just my 2 cents! Really enjoyed the latest content btw!
I'd love to see an updated form of these videos with some of the spells from Tasha's. I feel like some of the summon spells, like Summon Celestial, are especially powerful. I recently built a Lore Bard who was mechanically similar to the people from Inkheart who can read words and have what they read appear in real space. So flavoring each spell as reading a passage from a different book/chapter, and having his spellcasting focus be a book called The Tome of the Endless Word. Find Greater Steed, Illusory Dragon, Summon Celestial, Animate Objects, Summon Beast, Summon Undead, etc. Imagine an elderly grandfather whose grandson grew up and went away to live his life and he hopes to tell him one more story before he dies. So he's creating this fantastic story in his life to be able to give his last family member a good memory.
I'd suggest Death Ward. It's a powerful long lasting buff that doesn't use your concentration. The big advantage of Death Ward is you can cast it on whichever of your party members you think needs it most, plus as a bard I often find I'm not using many 4th level spells. Don't get me wrong they have some good ones, like polymorph, but I find they usually have lower level spells that fill the same role. Plus Death Ward is useful at any level of play.
Thank you - sweet of you to provide that overview...and the insights are always appreciated for general awareness, regardless of present character. Only drawback of watching you is a massive “stack” of ready characters I would love to play and too little time, smike
Loving these videos, as an experienced bard player it's a headache to have the right chooses for spells. When hitting lvl 10 my go-to chooses are Find Greater Steed and Circle of Power. Surprised you didn't metion the last one, a great buff to protect the party.
Another REALLY good choice (especially for Lore Bard) is Temporal Shunt. Yes, you probably already have Counterspell. But Temporal Shunt gives you a second option to no a spell or an attack
Telekinesis is good, but I don't see Spiritual Weapon as being a useful enough spell at this level to take it with Magical Secrets. By 10th level, it's damage is relatively low - only a single attack per round for 1d8 + spell casting modifier. The upscaling is very poor as it only gets a benefit every other level (4th, 6th, etc). Since the bard already gets plentiful bonus actions (bardic inspiration, healing word, etc), it also seems like this would tend to interfere with those and the bard would often end up using their bonus action for those instead.
Spiritual weapon is great for martial damage bards, 2d8+5 outperforms an extra off-hand attack by quite a bit. It's also the same damage as divine smite at lvl 2 if it only hits once. The only thing that really sucks is its low mobility
Valor Bard guide from December: Specifically calls out Wall of Force and Spiritual Weapon as spells that should "never" be your magical secret because they use concentration / bonus actions. This video: Over half the suggested spells use bonus actions or concentration, and Wall of Force and Spiritual Weapon both make the suggested list. But no, seriously, I think this is a good video, it's just interesting to see your opinions shift so drastically in such a concrete way. I think I still agree with your earlier assessment of Couterspell and Find Greater Steed being the best two choices if you aren't planning to mix it up in melee though.
Playing DnD for the first time playing a lore bard, perfect video to help me as I'm about to hit level 6. Your videos are always deeply insight- and helpful!
> WHat should a Bard do with their actions when they are concentrating? Help actions. Explore. Pretend not to care about the combat going on around them, and instead spend their time opening that chest. Help actions. Attacks. Puttering.
Or, act like a sports fan/ soccer parent. "You're hitting with a Sword?? Moron!" (xD4 Viscious Mockery) "Here, friend, you need a drink!" (Thrown potion)
I really like spirit guardians for college of swords bards. It works really well with defensive flourish and doesn’t interfere with two weapon fighting.
I agree. For Sword Bards at level 10 I like taking the Holy Weapon/Spirit Guardians combo. Although personally I also MC into Hexblade, take Polearm Master, and run the staff+shield+Dueling Fighting Style combination.
Find Steed and Find Greater Steed is interesting. They are mounts that are also, kind of, familiars. You have telepathy with them and they can understand at least one language of your choice. The ability to choose your targets, like with Destructive Waves, is major, . A spell that sucks at this in 5e is Faerie Fire. 1e Faerie Fire let you pick your targets. 5e Faerie Fire covers an area. As written, that means allies and enemies, alike, can get painted. Also, as written, any attack against highlighted creatures gain advantage. That means the monsters get advantage against Fired allies. Congratulations, you just killed your party.
I really need to cool with it bard. Almost every one of my characters is a bard or a paladin or a combination of both. For Season 9 I was thinking about doing Fallen Aasimar Conquest Paladin Whispers bard, but I might just go with Paladin/Sorc.
but that's the point, you get Swift quiver (along with Find greater steed and such spells), because you can get them earlier that other classes. If I wanted those spells I would just go wizard
Running a swords bard in dungeon of the mad mage. He is the only ordinal character left. And so far has even soloed a boss cant wait for magical secrets for shield and spirit guardians from pally list to make my ac even more crazy. I have the mobility feat. Dipped 2 lvls fighter. A few rogue lvls1 now but undetermined how many total yet.
I don't see Conjure woodland beings or Conjure elemental anywhere in the comments but i think those are decent options as well, and because you get a 5th level spell slot at level 9 as a bard you can choose those as well
Steel Wind Strike is a great pick for martially inclined Bards. Non-concentration…30’ radius….5 targets which you will attack with your spell attack modifier (at least +7-9 at this level), and do 6d10 force damage to each, which is the most reliable kind of damage. As a bonus (not a bonus action either; you still get that!), you get to reposition yourself on the battlefield. Cast Greater Invis on yourself, and make all of these attacks with advantage. Sing “Everybody was Kung fu fighting…..” as you do an average of 33 damage to at least 3 targets (odds-wise) in a single round!
What do you think about Banishing Smite for Swords Bards? Upside: No Saving Throw. Downside: You have to get the target below 50HP , at which point they are not that far away from dying.
I’m taking counterspell and cone of cold for my silver half dragon. I’m not taking another concentration spell with magical secrets. Really bummed I’m missing out on my own Pegasus though...nope, I’m definitely getting a Pegasus.
Imho, Swift Quiver isn't a bad choice at all. Indeed, its dmg is bad for lvl10 around, but it's mainly for the end-game build. Animate object dmg won't be effective as we reach high levels or the target has resistances, but swift quiver can multiply its dmg in many ways: 1) Elven accuracy + Sharpshooter feats to boost hit chance/dmg/crit. 2) multiclass with 1lvl fighter or warlock or both for archery style and hexblade's curse. 3) using the ring of spell storing by your pets (familiar/greater steed/planar binding) or your simulacrum (from magic secret at 14thlvl), so we can have multiple concentration buff. 4) Weapon upgrade! Combining all these synergies, it can build up the best endgame dmg on bard's bonus action; while we still have the flexibilities to use the action on attack/spells tailoring to the situation.
I've read many guides and dozens of forum threads about Bards, and the consensus seems that Lore bards rule and Valor bards aren’t even worth trying. Your Valor bard videos totally changed the way I looked at the subclass. I didn’t quite appreciate the power of having that much AC as a full caster, full time, without using a spell. I appreciate your content because it isn’t simply a rehash of what the “meta” is on “proper” builds for each class. You really go in deep and question everything, sometimes with surprising results. It’s a refreshing perspective. I love these videos, again thank you for taking the time and effort for creating them.
This campaign I played a bard for the first time. Decided to play a Glamour Bard, I'm now level 10 and in desperate need of something to pair with my Find Greater Steed and you just crushed my hopes of having a swift quiver raining arrows from the sky's play-through! I demand you now make a Glamour video and turn me into a 1 man wrecking ball. (JK!! No demands, learning a lot from your video's thank you!)
@@flimpeenflarmpoon1353 Hex Sword is pretty good and a lot of fun to play, but the progression can be slow. The main things you gain from Hexblade are: Charisma weapon attacks, Shield proficiency, Shield spell, Wrathful Smite, Booming Blade, and Eldritch Blast. Charisma attacks are self-explanatory. Shield and Shield spell synergizes nicely with Defensive Flourish (the only good flourish IMO) to get your AC into the high 20s low 30s. Wrathful Smite and Booming Blade ties you over to Extra Attack, which comes much later than regular martials. EB gives you a solid range option, particularly if you take Hex 2 for the relevant invocations. In terms of party role, Sword Bards are a little tricky. I wouldn’t play it as the primary caster or primary tank if the campaign starts in tier 1 or early tier 2, but it is excellent as a secondary caster that doubles as a tank. Late tier 2 though the power curve jumps ahead of normal martials due to spell casting and extra attack coming online, and in tier 3 Hex Sword really comes into its own and can dominate combats. In summary, it is a really strong but slow build that I tend to play if the campaign starts at a higher level (level 8+), and ideally ends in tier 3 or 4. And I generally view it as plugging a half caster role more so than a full caster role.
Surprised Circle of Power isn't on the list. Pretty good defensive spell when you don't have a high level Paladin around to give you increases to your saving throws.
I like the idea of a Necro...dancer with Wizard's necromancy spells as his magical secrets. Shame you'd miss out on things like Undead Thralls, but maybe you could take something like Crusader's Mantle from a Paladin for 1d4 extra damage on all of your Zombie and Skeleton backup dancers.
For a College of Swords Bard with the Dueling fighting style, what do you think of Guardian of Nature (Great Tree)? It seems it would pair well with the Blade Flourish. And you cast it as a bonus action.
What about spells like Holy Weapon or Guardian of Nature of a Valor Bard? Great buffs to your melee attacks so you don't have to rely on feats to start doing heavy and reliable damage.
It would depend on the build honestly. Pally 2/Bard X for example, or Hexblade/Bard - absolutely. The martial capabilities of these builds are still high enough that a boost like GoN or HW can put them in line with dedicated martial characters. With a straight bard, I think you'll find that the gap is pretty big, so although these narrow the gap, I figure there are probably more effective things you could focus on.
A thing to note about Find (Greater) Steed that I notice many (myself included at first) miss, is that the mount is created at *maximum rolled hitpoints.*
@@TreantmonksTemple I must of been confusing it with the Ranger's pet or something, but I coulda swore I *knew* it was the Steed. I'll try and check errata.
@@TreantmonksTemple Actually I think I was just misremembering "You can also dismiss your steed at any time as an action, causing it to disappear. In either case, casting this spell again summons the same steed, restored to its hit point maximum."
Strange honorable mention imo is Shillelagh. If you want to get into melee and maybe take two levels of paladin, Shillelagh allows you to focus on Charisma and not need to invest into max strength or dex.
Never understood the obsession people have with Wall of Force. It's a good spell, but it doesn't shut down nearly as many things as people think. In the example of "shutting down an ArchDruid", there is nothing stopping them from continuing to cast spells at the party and you've just stopped your melee characters from being able to do anything to stop it. Wall of Force only stops things from passing through it, there is nothing stopping them from casting spells that originate OUTSIDE of the wall of force (Conjuration, Call Lightning, etc). And since the Wall is Transparent, it doesn't block light of site. You can even argue that magical effects can pass through it since it states "nothing physically can pass through it".
You suggest Destructive Wave for a Valor/Sword bard for it's selective damage and prone control effect. How would you compare Steel Wind Strike as it is not concentration, does Force damage (less resistance), is selective damage, and could be combo-ed with Invisibility for advantage and possible critical damage? I feel that for a Sword/Valor bard it is superior.
Both Destructive Wave and Steel wind strike are selective and do not use concentration. Damage will be similar (10d6 vs 6d10). Steel wind strike does give the opportunity for crits, but also the opportunity for misses and does not knock prone. I agree it would combine well with Improved Invisibility, and if you did so, would potentially be a superior option, without the invis, I would probably stick with the destructive wave.
@@TreantmonksTemple Steel Wind Strike can miss but it doesn't give a saving throw for half damage. One easily overlooked advantage of Steel Wind Strike is no verbal component. It gives a pure caster something good to do when caught in silence.
Counter point for switch quiver. What if the bard in question has sharpshooter and has taken 3 levels in fighter to get the archer bonus and battle master.
I was reading the Telekinesis description, and it seems that when you cast it, the target Will automatically be restrained until your next turn, when you Will have tô do the ability check contest to keep that condition. The ability check on the turn you cast the spell seems to aply only to try to move the creature. Am I reading that correctly?
"If you win the contest, you move the creature up to 30 feet in any direction, including upward but not beyond the range of this spell. Until the end of your next turn, the creature is restrained in your telekinetic grip." I think the second sentence is still relying on "if you win the contest".
A lot of good suggestions, but I think you are slightly unfair towards that "ultimate archer" Swift Quiver-build. That build would obviously (have to) involve a 1 level Fighter dip to get the archery fighting style aswell as taking the sharp shooter feat to get the most use out of having 4 attacks each round after the first. It's still not a great build and comes online *waaay* too late, but the whole "you don't have the archery fighting style"-argument seems a little overstated.
It’s thematic but a little underwhelming power wise. For Sword Bards in particular I like Holy Weapon/Spirit Guardians with a level or two of Hexblade.
@@TreantmonksTemple Well yes, but I meant in terms of keeping that particular instance of the mount alive =) I've seen strategies involving equipping the thing with plate armor and so on, but to me that just seems like a whole lot of work, especially for an ally that might not even fit in a lot of dungeons. Still... flying pegasus mount. So awesome.
yosharian He’s talked about this a bit before with previous videos, but most baddies worth a damn won’t be investing valuable attack time going after one of your summons. In the event that your mount does die though, that’s what feather fall is for! Personally, I like Inspiring Leader for this. Your mount can understand your bardly words, after all!
@@yosharian If the enemies want to throw their attacks at my summoned creatures which are easily replaceable (or in this case re-summonable) instead of me or the other PC's, I count that as a tactical win.
Are Magical Secrets Magically delicious? > So many spells Not as many as in previous editions (Not that this is a bad thing - more spells = more chances for unbalanced spells to enter the scene. And it doesn't matter how many mediocre new spells there are, because people just ignore those).
Lore Bard took swift quiver at level 10. Not for him, though. For the arcane archer in the group attuned to a ring of spell storing. *That* is a team player.
Not a stupid question at all. Overall, I find elemental weapon to be a bit on the weak side, and it uses our concentration, so I would say normally no, but perhaps with some careful consideration it could still be valuable. Certainly in a campaign with a shortage of magic weapons.
@@TreantmonksTemple I cannot predict the amount of magic weapon, unless I comb through every loottable of the campaing, thorougly spoiling it. After rolling stats, I decided to make a hybrid lore bard, human V - magic initiate warlock, and aim to take 2 levels of paladin around before 6. I should have started pal for heavy armor, but eh. The plan is to take PoleArmMaster and be okay at all ranges. If melee time comes, either PAM with elemental weapon, or if someone needs inspiration, use GFB for attack.
You are still finding fireball super effective at 10+ level? I recommend it in my 6th level magical secrets vid, but by level 10, I think the fireball window is closing.
@@TreantmonksTemple Sure.. 1 At 10th level you have your 5th level spells but you dont have enough for every round, every fight. You need your 3rd and 4th and sometimes 2nd level spells on a rough day. You have no 3rd level spells like fireball. Nothing deals the damage like a multitarget area-effect spell. Fireball is the Icon here. 2 NO CONCENTRATION. Go ahead and use the kewl Bard stuff like Hypnotic Pattern or Poly or Animate/Dominate/Hold, it can be very effective, there's just nothing to do next round while you stand there and Concentrate. Maybe you can scare someone or blind him for one round or cast a cantrip, I'd rather blow stuff up real good. 3 Fireball is unusually good damage. It always hits, a few NPC Rogues aside, and it does good damage even you just use it on one guy, let alone a bunch of them. 14 damage on a made save and 28 otherwise is equivalent to an agonizing blast Warlock with the Hex on (14 on a hit) or your beefy fighting buddies.. and they specialize in single-target damage. IOW.. They're just fine dealing 28 damage in a round, you're disappointed. 4 120 feet away. Actually 140'.. Fireball is great at taking down that last guy in combat running away to tell the others. This may not be your pet peeve but it's mine. It might not be like it was in 3rd ed (300ft!) when we commonly used it that way, but its still the longest ranged always-deals-damage spell in 5e. You might be better off with Magic Missile, true, but you're a Bard, you don't have MM anyway. got a little more to say but that's it for now
Part one of my Magical Secrets videos
In this video I discuss my favorite picks for a 10th level Bard's Magical Secrets
The other parts of this video discuss:
14th level Magical Secrets picks: th-cam.com/video/IZWLEyI4Ikk/w-d-xo.html
18th level Magical Secrets picks: th-cam.com/video/A7Qkaz1FCpE/w-d-xo.html
Lore Bard 6th level Magical Secrets picks: th-cam.com/video/d4bLK_V11UQ/w-d-xo.html
What are your favorite magical secrets picks? What did I miss?
Steel wind strike
2:31 Wall of Force
5:43 Counterspell
7:06 Find Greater Steed
9:05 Destructive Wave
10:24 Transmute Rock
12:24 Telekinesis and Spiritual Weapon
16:03 Don't take Swift Quiver
I'm gonna put it out there that Magical Secrets spells count as bard spells for you, meaning you can ritual cast them, so don't rule out Rary's Telepathic Bond and Commune.
No Steel Wind Strike? :(
Counter argument: When you use telekinesis on a carpet people are standing on you don't get people riding a flying carpet, you get a flying bag full of people.
I like that mental image. Wait, can I use that offensively then?
Treantmonk's Temple lmao!
DM: "yes, but it's going to count as an improvised weapon"
@@christopherclubb9167 It's a deal!
Little trick I saw on a forum once for Counterspell on bards. If you pick up Glibness you essentially automatically always counter a spell. Glibness allows you to turn any charisma roll into a 15. So 15 + 5 (Charisma) + 2-3 (Jack of All trades)= Minimum 22. Meaning you can counter up to 12th level magic. It is a bit of a hefty investment with an 8th level spell slot but being able to negate every spell cast by an enemy for the minimum spell slot possible can pay dividends in certain encounters.
Yes, though that requires casting an 8th level spell beforehand for setup. Maybe worth it if you know you are going into a fight with a high level spellcaster and expect to be counterspelling high level spells a lot. Bards are actually already pretty good with Counterspell even without Glibness because of Jack of All Trades.
By the time you can get Glibness you can just use Bardic inspiration on your ability checks if you go Lore.
By the time you get level 8 spells you probably have maxed charisma so that is +5 then +2-3 from JOAT thats +8 to your d20 roll and if you need you can throw in an inspiration for another d12. Seems like a steep cost when you only get 1 level 8 slot. Unless you know the big bads in your campaign are magic users it seems costly. But it is definitely a way to totally break the game.
Do my eyes deceive me? 4 new videos about bards? Way to go! :)
Maybe it is just me, but I would like a small 10 Sec recap at the end. Like: so my tips are Wall of Force, Counterspell etc etc.
Just my 2 cents! Really enjoyed the latest content btw!
Same. i listen when i am out walking and not actually watching, and that would be helpful.
I'd love to see an updated form of these videos with some of the spells from Tasha's. I feel like some of the summon spells, like Summon Celestial, are especially powerful.
I recently built a Lore Bard who was mechanically similar to the people from Inkheart who can read words and have what they read appear in real space. So flavoring each spell as reading a passage from a different book/chapter, and having his spellcasting focus be a book called The Tome of the Endless Word. Find Greater Steed, Illusory Dragon, Summon Celestial, Animate Objects, Summon Beast, Summon Undead, etc.
Imagine an elderly grandfather whose grandson grew up and went away to live his life and he hopes to tell him one more story before he dies. So he's creating this fantastic story in his life to be able to give his last family member a good memory.
I know it's been six months, but this idea is so cool. I'll have to reread Inkheart some day.
Thank you so much for doing this series of videos, I have been hoping for something exactly like this. 👍
I appreciate the depth you go into on this.
The exact video I was waiting for, thank you for making this, I learned a lot!
I'd suggest Death Ward. It's a powerful long lasting buff that doesn't use your concentration. The big advantage of Death Ward is you can cast it on whichever of your party members you think needs it most, plus as a bard I often find I'm not using many 4th level spells. Don't get me wrong they have some good ones, like polymorph, but I find they usually have lower level spells that fill the same role. Plus Death Ward is useful at any level of play.
Thank you - sweet of you to provide that overview...and the insights are always appreciated for general awareness, regardless of present character. Only drawback of watching you is a massive “stack” of ready characters I would love to play and too little time, smike
Sorry - smile, not smike...
Loving these videos, as an experienced bard player it's a headache to have the right chooses for spells. When hitting lvl 10 my go-to chooses are Find Greater Steed and Circle of Power. Surprised you didn't metion the last one, a great buff to protect the party.
My favourite magical secrets are:
-Counterspell
-Fly
-Wall of force
-Circle of power
-Mind Blank
-Steel wind strike
-Wish
-Banishment
Another REALLY good choice (especially for Lore Bard) is Temporal Shunt. Yes, you probably already have Counterspell. But Temporal Shunt gives you a second option to no a spell or an attack
thank you for the invaluable information! Just started a bard and I will be using this for sure.
Great idea of a set of videos, just what I needed. Thanks!
Telekinesis is good, but I don't see Spiritual Weapon as being a useful enough spell at this level to take it with Magical Secrets. By 10th level, it's damage is relatively low - only a single attack per round for 1d8 + spell casting modifier. The upscaling is very poor as it only gets a benefit every other level (4th, 6th, etc). Since the bard already gets plentiful bonus actions (bardic inspiration, healing word, etc), it also seems like this would tend to interfere with those and the bard would often end up using their bonus action for those instead.
Spiritual weapon is great for martial damage bards, 2d8+5 outperforms an extra off-hand attack by quite a bit. It's also the same damage as divine smite at lvl 2 if it only hits once. The only thing that really sucks is its low mobility
Great information and the only video I could find on the subject.
Valor Bard guide from December: Specifically calls out Wall of Force and Spiritual Weapon as spells that should "never" be your magical secret because they use concentration / bonus actions.
This video: Over half the suggested spells use bonus actions or concentration, and Wall of Force and Spiritual Weapon both make the suggested list.
But no, seriously, I think this is a good video, it's just interesting to see your opinions shift so drastically in such a concrete way. I think I still agree with your earlier assessment of Couterspell and Find Greater Steed being the best two choices if you aren't planning to mix it up in melee though.
Love your work! Keep it up!
Playing DnD for the first time playing a lore bard, perfect video to help me as I'm about to hit level 6.
Your videos are always deeply insight- and helpful!
Top tier content here, Glamour Bard that just got to 10 and this was immensely helpful, thank you!
What spells did you take? I'm currently running a YuanTi glamour bard drag queen, still in tier 1 though
What spells did you take? I'm currently running a YuanTi glamour bard drag queen, still in tier 1 though
What i once read and makes a lot of sense is get 5th level from pala or ranger as that is their 20th level ability.
> WHat should a Bard do with their actions when they are concentrating?
Help actions. Explore. Pretend not to care about the combat going on around them, and instead spend their time opening that chest.
Help actions. Attacks. Puttering.
Or, act like a sports fan/ soccer parent.
"You're hitting with a Sword?? Moron!" (xD4 Viscious Mockery)
"Here, friend, you need a drink!" (Thrown potion)
I really like spirit guardians for college of swords bards. It works really well with defensive flourish and doesn’t interfere with two weapon fighting.
N L pretty sure spiritual weapon is concentration...
N L nope I'm wrong my friend. nvm
I agree. For Sword Bards at level 10 I like taking the Holy Weapon/Spirit Guardians combo. Although personally I also MC into Hexblade, take Polearm Master, and run the staff+shield+Dueling Fighting Style combination.
Find Steed and Find Greater Steed is interesting. They are mounts that are also, kind of, familiars. You have telepathy with them and they can understand at least one language of your choice.
The ability to choose your targets, like with Destructive Waves, is major, . A spell that sucks at this in 5e is Faerie Fire. 1e Faerie Fire let you pick your targets. 5e Faerie Fire covers an area. As written, that means allies and enemies, alike, can get painted. Also, as written, any attack against highlighted creatures gain advantage. That means the monsters get advantage against Fired allies. Congratulations, you just killed your party.
Bard my absolute favourite class....now to watch this...where is my coffee!!
I really need to cool with it bard. Almost every one of my characters is a bard or a paladin or a combination of both. For Season 9 I was thinking about doing Fallen Aasimar Conquest Paladin Whispers bard, but I might just go with Paladin/Sorc.
but that's the point, you get Swift quiver (along with Find greater steed and such spells), because you can get them earlier that other classes. If I wanted those spells I would just go wizard
Running a swords bard in dungeon of the mad mage. He is the only ordinal character left. And so far has even soloed a boss cant wait for magical secrets for shield and spirit guardians from pally list to make my ac even more crazy. I have the mobility feat. Dipped 2 lvls fighter. A few rogue lvls1 now but undetermined how many total yet.
I don't see Conjure woodland beings or Conjure elemental anywhere in the comments but i think those are decent options as well, and because you get a 5th level spell slot at level 9 as a bard you can choose those as well
Steel Wind Strike is a great pick for martially inclined Bards. Non-concentration…30’ radius….5 targets which you will attack with your spell attack modifier (at least +7-9 at this level), and do 6d10 force damage to each, which is the most reliable kind of damage. As a bonus (not a bonus action either; you still get that!), you get to reposition yourself on the battlefield.
Cast Greater Invis on yourself, and make all of these attacks with advantage. Sing “Everybody was Kung fu fighting…..” as you do an average of 33 damage to at least 3 targets (odds-wise) in a single round!
Amazing!!!
What do you think about Banishing Smite for Swords Bards? Upside: No Saving Throw. Downside: You have to get the target below 50HP , at which point they are not that far away from dying.
I’m taking counterspell and cone of cold for my silver half dragon. I’m not taking another concentration spell with magical secrets. Really bummed I’m missing out on my own Pegasus though...nope, I’m definitely getting a Pegasus.
Imho, Swift Quiver isn't a bad choice at all. Indeed, its dmg is bad for lvl10 around, but it's mainly for the end-game build. Animate object dmg won't be effective as we reach high levels or the target has resistances, but swift quiver can multiply its dmg in many ways:
1) Elven accuracy + Sharpshooter feats to boost hit chance/dmg/crit.
2) multiclass with 1lvl fighter or warlock or both for archery style and hexblade's curse.
3) using the ring of spell storing by your pets (familiar/greater steed/planar binding) or your simulacrum (from magic secret at 14thlvl), so we can have multiple concentration buff.
4) Weapon upgrade!
Combining all these synergies, it can build up the best endgame dmg on bard's bonus action; while we still have the flexibilities to use the action on attack/spells tailoring to the situation.
What magical secrets would you suggest for a College of Swords bard/Hexblade? Originally based it on your build :)
More bard videos from Treantmonk just as I'm starting a new valor bard? Say it isn't so! You're spoiling us with content, thank you so much!
Awesome! I love a Valor Bard - give me that Armor and Shield proficiency!
I've read many guides and dozens of forum threads about Bards, and the consensus seems that Lore bards rule and Valor bards aren’t even worth trying.
Your Valor bard videos totally changed the way I looked at the subclass. I didn’t quite appreciate the power of having that much AC as a full caster, full time, without using a spell.
I appreciate your content because it isn’t simply a rehash of what the “meta” is on “proper” builds for each class. You really go in deep and question everything, sometimes with surprising results. It’s a refreshing perspective.
I love these videos, again thank you for taking the time and effort for creating them.
This campaign I played a bard for the first time. Decided to play a Glamour Bard, I'm now level 10 and in desperate need of something to pair with my Find Greater Steed and you just crushed my hopes of having a swift quiver raining arrows from the sky's play-through! I demand you now make a Glamour video and turn me into a 1 man wrecking ball. (JK!! No demands, learning a lot from your video's thank you!)
For Hexblade Sword Bards Holy Weapon/Spirit Guardians are excellent picks at level 10.
Is hexblade swords good? I was reluctant to pick it cause you already get medium armour and martial weapons from hexblade
@@flimpeenflarmpoon1353 Hex Sword is pretty good and a lot of fun to play, but the progression can be slow. The main things you gain from Hexblade are: Charisma weapon attacks, Shield proficiency, Shield spell, Wrathful Smite, Booming Blade, and Eldritch Blast. Charisma attacks are self-explanatory. Shield and Shield spell synergizes nicely with Defensive Flourish (the only good flourish IMO) to get your AC into the high 20s low 30s. Wrathful Smite and Booming Blade ties you over to Extra Attack, which comes much later than regular martials. EB gives you a solid range option, particularly if you take Hex 2 for the relevant invocations.
In terms of party role, Sword Bards are a little tricky. I wouldn’t play it as the primary caster or primary tank if the campaign starts in tier 1 or early tier 2, but it is excellent as a secondary caster that doubles as a tank. Late tier 2 though the power curve jumps ahead of normal martials due to spell casting and extra attack coming online, and in tier 3 Hex Sword really comes into its own and can dominate combats.
In summary, it is a really strong but slow build that I tend to play if the campaign starts at a higher level (level 8+), and ideally ends in tier 3 or 4. And I generally view it as plugging a half caster role more so than a full caster role.
@@M0ebius thanks for the reply. Yeah I'm currently 1 hex blade 2 bard and the original plan was swords but then I was unsure.
Surprised Circle of Power isn't on the list. Pretty good defensive spell when you don't have a high level Paladin around to give you increases to your saving throws.
I like the idea of a Necro...dancer with Wizard's necromancy spells as his magical secrets.
Shame you'd miss out on things like Undead Thralls, but maybe you could take something like Crusader's Mantle from a Paladin for 1d4 extra damage on all of your Zombie and Skeleton backup dancers.
Upcast Mass Suggestion for making enemies dance (The Thriller dance) for 1 year while zombies eat them
For a College of Swords Bard with the Dueling fighting style, what do you think of Guardian of Nature (Great Tree)? It seems it would pair well with the Blade Flourish. And you cast it as a bonus action.
It's a good spell - I would be looking for ways to make good use of the difficult terrain if I took it.
What about spells like Holy Weapon or Guardian of Nature of a Valor Bard? Great buffs to your melee attacks so you don't have to rely on feats to start doing heavy and reliable damage.
It would depend on the build honestly. Pally 2/Bard X for example, or Hexblade/Bard - absolutely. The martial capabilities of these builds are still high enough that a boost like GoN or HW can put them in line with dedicated martial characters. With a straight bard, I think you'll find that the gap is pretty big, so although these narrow the gap, I figure there are probably more effective things you could focus on.
Is Transmutate rock worth taking with Plant Growth being a lower level alternative?
At 18 it is pretty easy wish :)
A thing to note about Find (Greater) Steed that I notice many (myself included at first) miss, is that the mount is created at *maximum rolled hitpoints.*
I don't see in the spell description where it says that.
@@TreantmonksTemple I must of been confusing it with the Ranger's pet or something, but I coulda swore I *knew* it was the Steed.
I'll try and check errata.
@@TreantmonksTemple Actually I think I was just misremembering "You can also
dismiss your steed at any time as an action, causing
it to disappear. In either case, casting this spell
again summons the same steed, restored to its hit
point maximum."
Could you lift a creature with telekinesis like 20 feet drop the creature and then hit it with spiritual weapon?
Swift Quiver gets really good as you get better magical items
With a fighter dip, you'll get +2 to hit and at 18/2, action surge for nova damage
Could i ask here about bard spells in general?
Strange honorable mention imo is Shillelagh. If you want to get into melee and maybe take two levels of paladin, Shillelagh allows you to focus on Charisma and not need to invest into max strength or dex.
Or just take a level of Hexblade.
@@M0ebius If you take a level of Hexblade in addition to two levels of Paladin, you miss out on your level 18 Secrets, so you lose out on Wish.
Theitsybitsyspider Depending on subclass and party role I’m perfectly okay with that.
I thought that feather fall is a 1st level spell.
It is, what did I say?
@@TreantmonksTemple You said feather fall was a 2nd level spell.
Yep, that's an error - you are correct, it's 1st level
@@TreantmonksTemple also you misspelled 'Telekinesis' =p
Never understood the obsession people have with Wall of Force. It's a good spell, but it doesn't shut down nearly as many things as people think. In the example of "shutting down an ArchDruid", there is nothing stopping them from continuing to cast spells at the party and you've just stopped your melee characters from being able to do anything to stop it. Wall of Force only stops things from passing through it, there is nothing stopping them from casting spells that originate OUTSIDE of the wall of force (Conjuration, Call Lightning, etc). And since the Wall is Transparent, it doesn't block light of site.
You can even argue that magical effects can pass through it since it states "nothing physically can pass through it".
You suggest Destructive Wave for a Valor/Sword bard for it's selective damage and prone control effect. How would you compare Steel Wind Strike as it is not concentration, does Force damage (less resistance), is selective damage, and could be combo-ed with Invisibility for advantage and possible critical damage? I feel that for a Sword/Valor bard it is superior.
Both Destructive Wave and Steel wind strike are selective and do not use concentration. Damage will be similar (10d6 vs 6d10). Steel wind strike does give the opportunity for crits, but also the opportunity for misses and does not knock prone. I agree it would combine well with Improved Invisibility, and if you did so, would potentially be a superior option, without the invis, I would probably stick with the destructive wave.
@@TreantmonksTemple Steel Wind Strike can miss but it doesn't give a saving throw for half damage.
One easily overlooked advantage of Steel Wind Strike is no verbal component. It gives a pure caster something good to do when caught in silence.
If it is not too much to ask, can you make a pinned comment with a brief recap of the spells discussed?
Counter point for switch quiver. What if the bard in question has sharpshooter and has taken 3 levels in fighter to get the archer bonus and battle master.
Then definitely better.
I was reading the Telekinesis description, and it seems that when you cast it, the target Will automatically be restrained until your next turn, when you Will have tô do the ability check contest to keep that condition. The ability check on the turn you cast the spell seems to aply only to try to move the creature. Am I reading that correctly?
"If you win the contest, you move the creature up to 30 feet in any direction, including upward but not beyond the range of this spell. Until the end of your next turn, the creature is restrained in your telekinetic grip." I think the second sentence is still relying on "if you win the contest".
How do you feel about bigby's hand? It can do solid damage and has versatility. Or is the fact it's concentration why you don't list it?
That is why, it's certainly more versatile than Animate Objects, but I'm not sure that's worth a magical secrets slot, but I do like the spell!
A lot of good suggestions, but I think you are slightly unfair towards that "ultimate archer" Swift Quiver-build. That build would obviously (have to) involve a 1 level Fighter dip to get the archery fighting style aswell as taking the sharp shooter feat to get the most use out of having 4 attacks each round after the first. It's still not a great build and comes online *waaay* too late, but the whole "you don't have the archery fighting style"-argument seems a little overstated.
What about steel wind strike for a swords/valor bard?
It’s thematic but a little underwhelming power wise. For Sword Bards in particular I like Holy Weapon/Spirit Guardians with a level or two of Hexblade.
The only thing that is anywhere near this is the Arcane Clerics choice of Wizard spells at levels 11, 13, 15 and 17.
Simon Burling And you only get that as a capstone, so most will never get to take advantage of it.
I really wish you'd done this from level 6 for a college of lore bard
I believe he did!
Thats part 4 isnt it?
My DM and i made a gentlemans agreement that i did not take wall of force and he would not use it against us xD
What about Circle of Power from the Paladin list?
ATinyWaffle He’s probably not as much a fan because, as he said, bard spells are already focused on A: concentration and B: buffing allies.
I actually did consider mentioning it, I think it's a decent choice.
Watery Sphere?
The problem with Find Greater Steed is that the mount is very hard to keep alive.
It actually can't die. If it reaches 0hp it vanishes, and you cast the spell again to bring it back with full HP and any conditions removed.
@@TreantmonksTemple Well yes, but I meant in terms of keeping that particular instance of the mount alive =)
I've seen strategies involving equipping the thing with plate armor and so on, but to me that just seems like a whole lot of work, especially for an ally that might not even fit in a lot of dungeons.
Still... flying pegasus mount. So awesome.
yosharian He’s talked about this a bit before with previous videos, but most baddies worth a damn won’t be investing valuable attack time going after one of your summons. In the event that your mount does die though, that’s what feather fall is for!
Personally, I like Inspiring Leader for this. Your mount can understand your bardly words, after all!
@@yosharian If the enemies want to throw their attacks at my summoned creatures which are easily replaceable (or in this case re-summonable) instead of me or the other PC's, I count that as a tactical win.
@@TreantmonksTemple Hmm, that's true I suppose. What about if/when it gets vaporized in AOE attacks though?
Are Magical Secrets Magically delicious?
> So many spells
Not as many as in previous editions
(Not that this is a bad thing - more spells = more chances for unbalanced spells to enter the scene. And it doesn't matter how many mediocre new spells there are, because people just ignore those).
You're always after me Lucky Charms.
Is wall of force just badly written or is it intended to break legendary resostance?
Lots of spells don't provide saving throws. Avoiding a save is always IMO the best way to deal with Legendary Resistance
did I understand it correctly that Jack of all trades affects saving throw rolls?
No
Lore Bard took swift quiver at level 10. Not for him, though. For the arcane archer in the group attuned to a ring of spell storing. *That* is a team player.
Engagement
Damn, swift quiver is just useless. You have to wait so long to get it as a ranger. And it is fundamentally useless as a bard's magical secret.
Potentially stupid question:
Is elemental weapon worth it on a bard in any way shape or form?
Not a stupid question at all. Overall, I find elemental weapon to be a bit on the weak side, and it uses our concentration, so I would say normally no, but perhaps with some careful consideration it could still be valuable. Certainly in a campaign with a shortage of magic weapons.
@@TreantmonksTemple I cannot predict the amount of magic weapon, unless I comb through every loottable of the campaing, thorougly spoiling it.
After rolling stats, I decided to make a hybrid lore bard, human V - magic initiate warlock, and aim to take 2 levels of paladin around before 6. I should have started pal for heavy armor, but eh.
The plan is to take PoleArmMaster and be okay at all ranges. If melee time comes, either PAM with elemental weapon, or if someone needs inspiration, use GFB for attack.
"4 short videos". This video is 20 minutes long XD
Short for me....
@@TreantmonksTemple I'm planning a lore bard, so this is super useful though!
algorithm
Fireball?
C'mon man... No Fireball?
Srsly..
`
You are still finding fireball super effective at 10+ level? I recommend it in my 6th level magical secrets vid, but by level 10, I think the fireball window is closing.
@@TreantmonksTemple Sure..
1 At 10th level you have your 5th level spells but you dont have enough for every round, every fight. You need your 3rd and 4th and sometimes 2nd level spells on a rough day. You have no 3rd level spells like fireball. Nothing deals the damage like a multitarget area-effect spell. Fireball is the Icon here.
2 NO CONCENTRATION. Go ahead and use the kewl Bard stuff like Hypnotic Pattern or Poly or Animate/Dominate/Hold, it can be very effective, there's just nothing to do next round while you stand there and Concentrate. Maybe you can scare someone or blind him for one round or cast a cantrip, I'd rather blow stuff up real good.
3 Fireball is unusually good damage. It always hits, a few NPC Rogues aside, and it does good damage even you just use it on one guy, let alone a bunch of them.
14 damage on a made save and 28 otherwise is equivalent to an agonizing blast Warlock with the Hex on (14 on a hit) or your beefy fighting buddies.. and they specialize in single-target damage. IOW.. They're just fine dealing 28 damage in a round, you're disappointed.
4 120 feet away. Actually 140'.. Fireball is great at taking down that last guy in combat running away to tell the others. This may not be your pet peeve but it's mine. It might not be like it was in 3rd ed (300ft!) when we commonly used it that way, but its still the longest ranged always-deals-damage spell in 5e. You might be better off with Magic Missile, true, but you're a Bard, you don't have MM anyway.
got a little more to say but that's it for now
Engagement