You're missing the point! The Zerg IS the swarm - they're supposed to swarm enemies with "endless" streams of units ie. the constant army trades. Protoss has some of the strongest units in the game and are meant to have the huge unbeatable deathballs. THAT's the balance there.
This is the first time I've ever actually watched a WCS Global Final, and this is just... I thought the regional WCS tournaments were intense, these are non-stop action start to finish.
His opponent is Jaedong, dude. He is not in his best form yet but he is still one of the best player in Starcraft history. Against such a player, even a completely magnificently perfect game only give you 50% chance at best. At the very top level, it's not about who make less mistake, it's about who can achieve better perfection.
Holy shit that second game... I can't even believe that shit, that was the most intense game of Starcraft I've ever watched. Both players played on a level that is beyond anything I've ever seen. How come incredible games like this never happen in the Last rounds? They always happen on lower tiers.
True, and that's my point. At the very top level, making mistakes even the smallest can be inexcusable. You have to play it perfectly and even that only give u 50 % chance at most.
I bet u never seen him play in Broodwar. Let me tell u, it was several levels above the best of players in SC 2. He and Flash were like the Messi and Ronaldo of football.
2 player of 2 styles play perfectly in their respective styles.The better of the 2 win ( or sometimes it's the matter of luck ). Perfection is only a singular point when there is only 1 way for everything
I find it funny how people are criticizing these players (arguably 2 of the best ever) in a pressure situation like this as if they could have done better. If you wouldn't do it to their face, don't say it here. Most of you are probably gold and below anyway.
Yep. That's the Jaedong, that was in the SC:BW. The Jaedong that made me love this game and was (and is) a living legend and the best of the best for me. So happy to finally see this.
You are talking about the general pro, not the one at the very top who dominate everyone. Jaedong was one like that in BroodWar and only Flash was capable of standing against him. Both of them played perfectly in their game and many times it took the last bit of resource to decide the winner.
That second game, unbelievable. It's definately a weakness of the Zerg of a race; it can remain really difficult to close out even a huge lead without a couple of specific units (Booodlords, Swarmhosts). If a Zerg gets raped that hard in the early game like MC did there, where basically everything he was doing went wrong, it doesn't matter about which units you have or he has you're just going to fall over to the next attack without a fight
It's different for everyone, I play Toss and Zerg at a Gold level. My friend plays Terran at a Gold level but can't go near Zerg. The game is very balanced in a lot of ways. Everything is op if you have the right composition. It's a game of extremes, you don't want to be close to your opponent. And if you see a lot of banes coming you don't try to follow up with Marines O.o. If you do, try to learn to split. If you can't, make sure you have widow mines and Marauders to tank.
when they throw away armies like that, they don't get punished because their macro is such that they can do that and get away with it. Protoss has trouble expanding like Zerg or Terran, but look at the late game and the kind of units that they have. That's the Toss advantage. Each race has its pros and cons. Don't hate.
Someone can help me? I see this 3 game and not understand why MC (and all protoss player) not use illusion ability. Why not create 4 allucinated Colossi ? Or 4 allucinated Immortal? I dream this ability every day with other race. Vipers lose 50% of his power with 4 allucinated colossi or immortal (use them for nothing if take the fake colossus). Why nobody use this ability? thx for response.
FeedMoreNoobs the 3. game hold was literally just showing that zerg is broken lol. if zerg wants they can just get 20 drones insantly. all u need to do as zerg is get queens, always inject get 3+ bases and then just select larva and hold R + H for a retarded combo of units. roaches are just so fucking good its ridiculous. 75-25 costs but has 130 HP, 1 armor and 16 dmg without upgrades. thats just retarded.
+TheUnknown man when game starts going intense its not so easy to not miss larva injects and once u lose 1 or 2 u are basically behind.... u rlly gotta have very good awarness as zerg and good apm together with a good macromanagement, protoss has also some broken aspects aswell as terran but honestly i dont really think anyone is "broken" by default, its just that there are some builds that are broken against others and when u have the bad luck to make that bad build against something unexpected u simply lose.
It seems like nowadays this game is WAY more about macro, to the point where it puts control and smart engagements on the backburner. I like where the game is in terms of balance at the moment but I think if they shifted the focus from economy back towards control it would stop being about who can resupply the most waves and more about who has the best control. I really dislike the current "who can throw minerals the hardest" meta.
Ok Kyle, but you admit that,, if i use 600 mineral on hellion and my zerg opponent use 600 mineral on ling, i can't annihilate them? So, what shit of counter is hellion against zerglings? I am forced to micro with my hellion like a medium or pro gamer to win against a stupid bronze Zerg that expand to third and make few lings? If Zerg go for fast roaches and send them against my marine ball, they not need to micro. Strategy win. If i make only hellion against ony ling, i must micro or i lose.
lmao!!!! Apollo - "Artosis he only has one pylon powering all those gateways." Artosis - "Ya I think it's called the Incontrol pylon." Artosis and Incontrol crack on each other all the time. Ya they used to call it the Artosis pylon which never seemed necessary since all Protoss make that mistake.
Clearly blizzard thinks a matchup that routinely ends in base trading bullshit is entertaining. Since the release of HotS only tvt and tvz are the only matchups that aren't crap. And they seem to not really care.
Jaedong has a style with his mutas that can often go to base trading since mutas have a problem with direct engagements, however looking at other pros it doesn't happen near as often. In ladder play it doesn't happen near as often unless your playing below plat or in low plat
Why would they be? One's American and one's British and they look completely different. Their only similarities are that they both cast Starcraft and both of their caster names(not real names) start with the letter 'a'.
That moment at 35 minutes where Jaedong shut down MC's sole pylon that powered all six of WGs. XD LOLOLOL. Fucking 'lings didn't even have speed. Sure his game against Bomber's Terrans didn't go to well due to all the Protoss he had been playing/practicing against, but regardless. Jaedong is still the Tyrant.
Classic MC behavior on that last game. He got himself a big advantage with that gateway push but he just decided he would win with that push... That cost him the game.
actually my firend its exactly the opposite thing,i played all three races till plat and now im a dia toss. Protoss is the most forgiving. Especially supply blocks. There is some imbalances in the game but there are ways to not encounter them. GL HF
Toss or Zerg can win a game with a strategic exploit. Hidden banelings or dark templar rush. Ter can't make the same. Now Ter have widow mine and hellbat that help to kill a lot of unit instantly. Before this patch T can't destroy instantly a lot of unit. For example toss have storm. Or Immortal. Zerg have bane or infestor. T can destroy instantly mass unit only with Raven missile, but is possible in late game (infestor can trow raven missile on my unit with mind control). Not OP, but not equal
in game 2 I noticed when things got really messy Jaedong made a shitload of lings vs a bunch of zealots and archons when he could have made roaches. And in his first ultra/ling engagement he sent lings in before ultras. =[
"I believe they call that an incontrol pylon" Nice try Artosis.
Wow, those Muta splits at the end of game 1!!!
holy shit yeah lol
There is no such thing as 'better perfection'. Perfection is the pinnacle, a singular point.
That 2nd game :O
Every single game in this series was really exciting and good. No boring macrofests here
who thinks there should be a StarCraft movie????
Watch Halo 4, Hitman and Prince of Persia and say that again. Tomb Raider 1 was okay, tbf.
00100000station if they do make a movie it should be animation like dead space
This set of games is one of the best I've ever seen! Bravo, JD and MC!
Game starts at 9:30
You're missing the point! The Zerg IS the swarm - they're supposed to swarm enemies with "endless" streams of units ie. the constant army trades. Protoss has some of the strongest units in the game and are meant to have the huge unbeatable deathballs. THAT's the balance there.
Wow, game 2 was insane. One of the craziest game I've ever seen. Could even be the grand final!
This is the first time I've ever actually watched a WCS Global Final, and this is just... I thought the regional WCS tournaments were intense, these are non-stop action start to finish.
His opponent is Jaedong, dude. He is not in his best form yet but he is still one of the best player in Starcraft history. Against such a player, even a completely magnificently perfect game only give you 50% chance at best. At the very top level, it's not about who make less mistake, it's about who can achieve better perfection.
one of the reason why i watch wcs sc2
" it's about who can achieve better perfection."
So epic.
Apollo is such a quality caster! Brilliant!
Holy shit that second game... I can't even believe that shit, that was the most intense game of Starcraft I've ever watched. Both players played on a level that is beyond anything I've ever seen. How come incredible games like this never happen in the Last rounds? They always happen on lower tiers.
You don't know what you're talking about, the OPness hangs around the lower levels of play because of low apm.
True, and that's my point. At the very top level, making mistakes even the smallest can be inexcusable. You have to play it perfectly and even that only give u 50 % chance at most.
I've never thought of it that way, but I think you have a point; if there was a clear superior race, everyone would play it on a pro level.
Those were the most sick PvZ I've ever seen in HotS
I bet u never seen him play in Broodwar. Let me tell u, it was several levels above the best of players in SC 2. He and Flash were like the Messi and Ronaldo of football.
2 player of 2 styles play perfectly in their respective styles.The better of the 2 win ( or sometimes it's the matter of luck ). Perfection is only a singular point when there is only 1 way for everything
thats the best match i've ever seen
I find it funny how people are criticizing these players (arguably 2 of the best ever) in a pressure situation like this as if they could have done better. If you wouldn't do it to their face, don't say it here. Most of you are probably gold and below anyway.
Hear, hear
I'm Platinum, and they're awwwesome.
Lowko, Jaedong & Life are the greatest in my book! :)
Killine Rogue agreed
misteratoz im sorry but mc was never the best ever at any point in his career
the dude said two of the best ever.
Haven't you been following i him
Also, is there a crowd reel behind this lol.
Anyone else notice the one girl they keep cutting to when showing the audience?
Not about throwing away armies, more about the Mutalisks being probably the best single unit in SC2.
Difference without a distinction. Means the same thing. The less mistakes you make, the closer you are to perfection. ;)
im so happy for jaedong :D
I have never watched a game of any kind in such an exciting fashion....O_O
This was such a glorious series!
Artosis and Apollo!?!? 2 of my favorite casters for sure as well as two great players. Its going to be a good hour
i have n idea what this game is and i have no idea whats going on right now
i love jaedong micro zergling it amazing
Yep. That's the Jaedong, that was in the SC:BW. The Jaedong that made me love this game and was (and is) a living legend and the best of the best for me. So happy to finally see this.
That wasn't rly too many mutalisks. That was too perfect mutalisk split to evade those very good storms! :O
Incredible games! And this was group stage?? Wow...
Search the phrase on TH-cam. Artosis has been trying to change the name for over a year.
1:02:37 MC wins back and the one girl in the audience (joke) could not give less of a crap! - Full face palm and thinking "Where a I ?!"
You are talking about the general pro, not the one at the very top who dominate everyone. Jaedong was one like that in BroodWar and only Flash was capable of standing against him. Both of them played perfectly in their game and many times it took the last bit of resource to decide the winner.
That second game, unbelievable. It's definately a weakness of the Zerg of a race; it can remain really difficult to close out even a huge lead without a couple of specific units (Booodlords, Swarmhosts). If a Zerg gets raped that hard in the early game like MC did there, where basically everything he was doing went wrong, it doesn't matter about which units you have or he has you're just going to fall over to the next attack without a fight
Off-race and Jaedong won?Jaedong is basically the best player in history of SC,Bomber is 2nd
smh
smhx2
Incontrol pylon? STFU artosis
huh
35:30 "I believe they call this the InControl pylon!!" -Artosis
why is Brood War so much more difficult than sc2 hots?
29:20 music?
Comeback from MC wow! Even without warp prism
It's different for everyone, I play Toss and Zerg at a Gold level. My friend plays Terran at a Gold level but can't go near Zerg. The game is very balanced in a lot of ways. Everything is op if you have the right composition. It's a game of extremes, you don't want to be close to your opponent. And if you see a lot of banes coming you don't try to follow up with Marines O.o. If you do, try to learn to split. If you can't, make sure you have widow mines and Marauders to tank.
that was, now hes just a very good zerg that sticks with second places
when they throw away armies like that, they don't get punished because their macro is such that they can do that and get away with it. Protoss has trouble expanding like Zerg or Terran, but look at the late game and the kind of units that they have. That's the Toss advantage. Each race has its pros and cons. Don't hate.
it doesn't work. check the state of upload pls
Stiil playing Protoss causes your mistakes to be punished a lot harder than Zerg"s mistakes
whats the name of the song?
Artosis: It's an "in-control" pylon!!
beginning music plz
How come zerg is always headed on supply???
3 high templars can technically take out infinite mutalisks with 3 clicks. it's all about how good you are.
i can't see, please recheck.
whats the intro song anyone?
This is a legendary matchup !!!!!
In this game it wasn't a small misstake, he split his entire army in half.
Someone can help me?
I see this 3 game and not understand why MC (and all protoss player) not use illusion ability.
Why not create 4 allucinated Colossi ?
Or 4 allucinated Immortal?
I dream this ability every day with other race.
Vipers lose 50% of his power with 4 allucinated colossi or immortal (use them for nothing if take the fake colossus).
Why nobody use this ability? thx for response.
''I believe they call this an InControl pylon''? Lol Artosis, you call it an InControl pylon, everyone else calls it an Artosis pylon.
Dat second game... MINDBLOWING... And i thought i was good at Starcraft....
+Αλεξανδρος Αλεξ there's being "good" at SC
and then there's being "Korean good"
+Codex then there is Korean god
That second game: Jaedong allergic to spore crawlers?
What an epic set of games
teran winz ;
comentator talking about the use of forge to block early zerg rush as he sees the forge is built on the edges ; KEK
What happened to "zerg player, low skill" now MC?! :D
FeedMoreNoobs the 3. game hold was literally just showing that zerg is broken lol. if zerg wants they can just get 20 drones insantly. all u need to do as zerg is get queens, always inject get 3+ bases and then just select larva and hold R + H for a retarded combo of units. roaches are just so fucking good its ridiculous. 75-25 costs but has 130 HP, 1 armor and 16 dmg without upgrades. thats just retarded.
Lol the race with photon overcharge crying about balance
TheUnknown You're right. I used that exact strategy you described.
+TheUnknown man when game starts going intense its not so easy to not miss larva injects and once u lose 1 or 2 u are basically behind.... u rlly gotta have very good awarness as zerg and good apm together with a good macromanagement, protoss has also some broken aspects aswell as terran but honestly i dont really think anyone is "broken" by default, its just that there are some builds that are broken against others and when u have the bad luck to make that bad build against something unexpected u simply lose.
Dat 2nd game was amazing! i wish i can be this good protoss player like MC!
That late recall...
It seems like nowadays this game is WAY more about macro, to the point where it puts control and smart engagements on the backburner. I like where the game is in terms of balance at the moment but I think if they shifted the focus from economy back towards control it would stop being about who can resupply the most waves and more about who has the best control. I really dislike the current "who can throw minerals the hardest" meta.
You don't know starcraft. When your APM is high, it doesn't matter if a race is OP.
Ok Kyle, but you admit that,, if i use 600 mineral on hellion and my zerg opponent use 600 mineral on ling, i can't annihilate them?
So, what shit of counter is hellion against zerglings?
I am forced to micro with my hellion like a medium or pro gamer to win against a stupid bronze Zerg that expand to third and make few lings?
If Zerg go for fast roaches and send them against my marine ball, they not need to micro. Strategy win.
If i make only hellion against ony ling, i must micro or i lose.
lmao!!!! Apollo - "Artosis he only has one pylon powering all those gateways." Artosis - "Ya I think it's called the Incontrol pylon." Artosis and Incontrol crack on each other all the time. Ya they used to call it the Artosis pylon which never seemed necessary since all Protoss make that mistake.
The sickest and most epic game ever !
Clearly blizzard thinks a matchup that routinely ends in base trading bullshit is entertaining. Since the release of HotS only tvt and tvz are the only matchups that aren't crap. And they seem to not really care.
Jaedong has a style with his mutas that can often go to base trading since mutas have a problem with direct engagements, however looking at other pros it doesn't happen near as often. In ladder play it doesn't happen near as often unless your playing below plat or in low plat
your bitching about the most balanced strategy game available, where do you turn now
Clash of Clans lol
35:34 ARTOSIS ARTOSIS. i believe they call this the incontrol pylon. XD
Are Artosis and Apollo related ?
Why would they be? One's American and one's British and they look completely different. Their only similarities are that they both cast Starcraft and both of their caster names(not real names) start with the letter 'a'.
Incredible second game!!!!!
That moment at 35 minutes where Jaedong shut down MC's sole pylon that powered all six of WGs. XD
LOLOLOL. Fucking 'lings didn't even have speed. Sure his game against Bomber's Terrans didn't go to well due to all the Protoss he had been playing/practicing against, but regardless. Jaedong is still the Tyrant.
Jaedong is just so good nowadays.
Yeah, if only he can improve his game against Terran which he's been struggling with, looking at his recent results with Bomber and Polt.
Classic MC behavior on that last game. He got himself a big advantage with that gateway push but he just decided he would win with that push... That cost him the game.
Amazing Jaedong
what's wrong with jaedong now?
actually my firend its exactly the opposite thing,i played all three races till plat and now im a dia toss. Protoss is the most forgiving. Especially supply blocks. There is some imbalances in the game but there are ways to not encounter them. GL HF
How the fuck was that one little minor mistake he over extended way too much. He should have pulled back and he would have had a way better chance.
6:34 is that idra :X
Toss or Zerg can win a game with a strategic exploit. Hidden banelings or dark templar rush. Ter can't make the same. Now Ter have widow mine and hellbat that help to kill a lot of unit instantly. Before this patch T can't destroy instantly a lot of unit. For example toss have storm. Or Immortal. Zerg have bane or infestor. T can destroy instantly mass unit only with Raven missile, but is possible in late game (infestor can trow raven missile on my unit with mind control). Not OP, but not equal
In lower level play some races can be OP.
So why not make a single brood lord to slaughter everything?
Amazing series
in game 2 I noticed when things got really messy Jaedong made a shitload of lings vs a bunch of zealots and archons when he could have made roaches. And in his first ultra/ling engagement he sent lings in before ultras. =[
He did that because he didn't want to waste all his gas on fucking Roaches...
I noticed it too, because the casters told me.
please comeback to sc Jaedong
Jaedongstoo scared too trade. He had ultras in game two but no fungal to paralize the toss units
Never underestimate MC.
i fucking hate dealing with mutas, personally i think they are a little unbalanced
Sucks that JD now earned about 150k more than MC
Holy fucking shit those mutalisks.
why does MC have 2 be so aggressive? I think If he knew when 2 play greedy sometimes, he would be able 2 B a lot better.