River is setting a new trend, pace. Earlier initiation, higher edge angles, lots of hip.... he's fun to watch. Nice breakdown Tom. The technology is a hindrance, but you made it work. More people than ever are watching programs like this. Rock it out!!
My 10 year old racer loved your analysis on this video, is a big fan of your's, particularly how River keeps catching up with his lower profile and higher edge angles, something I have been trying to impress on him this last season.
Tom, I really enjoyed what you did with this video. You have actually added to my enjoyment of the race. River caught up a couple of times and lost by a foot - a FOOT! The choices of edge angles/lines happen instantaneously and in reflexive response to all kinds of forces. This race could easily have gone another way. Unless Marco beats River consistently, you could almost chalk it up to luck. I like to rail all the way through a carve. This makes me fast out on the piste, but slower in the gates. Every racer now seems to include strategic Ted Ligety-style "stivots."
Thanks Steve. I personally can see something in River that will make him a force to be reckoned with. He’s got such a great attitude. I am curious to see how this season pans out and I think on a course with a few more rolls like Alta Badia maybe we will see him podium. Just as Alice Robinsons style is more risky when she’s in it she flys. I think river will be the same. Plus his start holds some low hanging fruit many of the over too guys have a faster more powerful start
Rather than approaching a race analysis from the biased view of preferring skiing with higher edge angle, an alternative look without that judgement would be what’s the edge angle that was needed to ski the desired line. More edge angle than needed and you’ll slow down, not enough and you’ll end up late and lots down. And at the end of the day this is the very definition of skill is using the precise amount to achieve the desired outcome. The best racers imo are the ones that match this to the terrain and the course set, and are able to adjust to this and whatever happens at those kinds of speeds and intensities. At the end of the day, the goal of racing is purely about getting from A to B faster than everyone else, and if you can look at skiing purely as how this person did or didn’t achieve that, or why someone may have been faster at certain points, you can move away from personal bias about what kind of skiing you like to see.
I agree with what you’re saying about my bias towards liking Rivers skiing and a bias towards higher edge angles. I find it exciting to watch and for myself it’s one part of the sport I thoroughly enjoy. So I wanted to do this analysis to see how the winner, who clearly skied by mostly choosing the right amount of edge angle necessary to make his line, shaped up against what I stylistically like.
@@Bigpictureskiing the joy of ski racing that allows us to remove our own judgments and bias, the better “looking” turn may not have been the best turn… when we can apply the same non judgemental approach as instructors and coaches, it allows us to connect the dots of goals/outcomes, movements needed to achieve them, and the instructions we provide. This also makes it easier to keep things externally based, which seems is an area you’ve been interested in for your own teaching. Thanks for the reply Tom, always enjoy your videos!
@@markshaxted yes that’s what’s great about ski racing. It’s just who is fastest. I guess I’m more drawn to sports or aspects of sports where flare and style are important. Like a surfing competition, freestyle variants of sports, break dancing, etc. I think it’s because I’m a big fan of expression of the body and so even in a sport like ski racing the way my eye and brain works I look for a lot of these things on top of the fundamental ski snow interaction which is most important. After that I’m a fab of style and expression. So analyzing a style I like the look of in a competitive environment was the interesting part of this analysis for me. Not trying to influence people that bigger edge angles are better.
@@Bigpictureskiing Obsession with high edge angles have been around for a long time. This obsession had sent many racers (particularly in North America) and coaches on a wrong path resulting in very inconsistent unbalanced skiing and in many injuries. Top racers know how to drift on top of the turn and how to create appropriate edge angles consistently. I hope Radamus learns it rather sooner than later. Now he had a lucky run, but will mostly be not qualifying for the second run throughout the season - my prediction. These analysis are entertaining ,but are not really useful. Tom is trying hard to understand what is going on, but is missing the fundamental understanding of modern GS technique in my view. Why not just be a ski instructor and not get into ski race coaching:)
@@Gregcoach you make some very good points. And I respect you saying I should stick to ski instructing and stay away from racing. But I’m interested in learning more especially from people like yourself with a lot of experience in race coaching. Perhaps we could set up a chat or even a podcast? I’d love to hear your thoughts on the obsession with high edge angles, what racers should be focused on, your views on how to develop this. This is a chance for many people to learn from an expert like yourself. Would you be open to something like that? Thanks Tom
No because that’s to do with their first run being added already to the time. This is second run. I synchronized it up with the exact time the start wand was broken to compare just the second run on its own.
Ski prep, equipment setup, tactics, line (intention vs. chance vs. recovery), fitness, confidence, vision, risk taking, luck. Lots of factors beyond technique. Careful with style preference vs. function, and of course, outcome! Big edge angles create more scrub, and tighten the radius in places where it may not always be beneficial. I agree it looks cool but it's not a judged sport, thankfully ;)
Yep totally. If you listen carefully I mention that. It is a video with a style bias. I wanted to do it that way as it’s nearly always not about that but the other factors you mention. Plus I don’t know about ski tune, psychology of these athletes, etc. but my eyes are seeing certain things and I’m commenting through my own lens. I think cautioning to be careful is what the world does a little too much of. “Don’t make mistakes.” “Don’t say something incorrect.” It’s quite liberating to get away from that at the end of the day what I say people can like or not like it’s their decision. This is not a rebuttal to your comment, but rather an attempt on my side to expand on why I created a video with a certain viewpoint on technique.
@@Bigpictureskiing I can't say 'careful' without triggering you, but you can admonish me to listen carefully... Joking, joking. But seriously, just encouraging you to make your lens a bit more clear, or adjust your F-stop. I like your mojo and if the picture on the wall is you skiing, well, then... you get it.
Marco sono Matteo Valentino mi riguardo le mie gare per le dediche d amore che mi mandavano Anita mia fidanzata e nostra nipote Martina di Centa mentre correvamo io e suo papà Giorgio di Centa dormiva da Anita quando eravamo per il mondo ciao auguri per la stagione 23 24 ciao
River is setting a new trend, pace. Earlier initiation, higher edge angles, lots of hip.... he's fun to watch. Nice breakdown Tom. The technology is a hindrance, but you made it work. More people than ever are watching programs like this. Rock it out!!
My 10 year old racer loved your analysis on this video, is a big fan of your's, particularly how River keeps catching up with his lower profile and higher edge angles, something I have been trying to impress on him this last season.
Haha cool I’m glad it was interesting for him
Thanks for this! As a new fan of the sport, it's really interesting seeing a breakdown of the race like that.
Welcome the world of ski race analysis, Tom. I will be looking out for your next one.
Dear Tom, excellent!!! You diden't missed one detail. Great observation!!!
Tom, I really enjoyed what you did with this video. You have actually added to my enjoyment of the race. River caught up a couple of times and lost by a foot - a FOOT! The choices of edge angles/lines happen instantaneously and in reflexive response to all kinds of forces. This race could easily have gone another way. Unless Marco beats River consistently, you could almost chalk it up to luck. I like to rail all the way through a carve. This makes me fast out on the piste, but slower in the gates. Every racer now seems to include strategic Ted Ligety-style "stivots."
Thanks Steve. I personally can see something in River that will make him a force to be reckoned with. He’s got such a great attitude. I am curious to see how this season pans out and I think on a course with a few more rolls like Alta Badia maybe we will see him podium. Just as Alice Robinsons style is more risky when she’s in it she flys. I think river will be the same. Plus his start holds some low hanging fruit many of the over too guys have a faster more powerful start
Excellent analysis thanks Tom very informative and enjoyable.
Rather than approaching a race analysis from the biased view of preferring skiing with higher edge angle, an alternative look without that judgement would be what’s the edge angle that was needed to ski the desired line. More edge angle than needed and you’ll slow down, not enough and you’ll end up late and lots down. And at the end of the day this is the very definition of skill is using the precise amount to achieve the desired outcome. The best racers imo are the ones that match this to the terrain and the course set, and are able to adjust to this and whatever happens at those kinds of speeds and intensities. At the end of the day, the goal of racing is purely about getting from A to B faster than everyone else, and if you can look at skiing purely as how this person did or didn’t achieve that, or why someone may have been faster at certain points, you can move away from personal bias about what kind of skiing you like to see.
I agree with what you’re saying about my bias towards liking Rivers skiing and a bias towards higher edge angles. I find it exciting to watch and for myself it’s one part of the sport I thoroughly enjoy. So I wanted to do this analysis to see how the winner, who clearly skied by mostly choosing the right amount of edge angle necessary to make his line, shaped up against what I stylistically like.
@@Bigpictureskiing the joy of ski racing that allows us to remove our own judgments and bias, the better “looking” turn may not have been the best turn… when we can apply the same non judgemental approach as instructors and coaches, it allows us to connect the dots of goals/outcomes, movements needed to achieve them, and the instructions we provide. This also makes it easier to keep things externally based, which seems is an area you’ve been interested in for your own teaching.
Thanks for the reply Tom, always enjoy your videos!
@@markshaxted yes that’s what’s great about ski racing. It’s just who is fastest. I guess I’m more drawn to sports or aspects of sports where flare and style are important. Like a surfing competition, freestyle variants of sports, break dancing, etc. I think it’s because I’m a big fan of expression of the body and so even in a sport like ski racing the way my eye and brain works I look for a lot of these things on top of the fundamental ski snow interaction which is most important. After that I’m a fab of style and expression. So analyzing a style I like the look of in a competitive environment was the interesting part of this analysis for me. Not trying to influence people that bigger edge angles are better.
@@Bigpictureskiing Obsession with high edge angles have been around for a long time. This obsession had sent many racers (particularly in North America) and coaches on a wrong path resulting in very inconsistent unbalanced skiing and in many injuries. Top racers know how to drift on top of the turn and how to create appropriate edge angles consistently. I hope Radamus learns it rather sooner than later. Now he had a lucky run, but will mostly be not qualifying for the second run throughout the season - my prediction. These analysis are entertaining ,but are not really useful. Tom is trying hard to understand what is going on, but is missing the fundamental understanding of modern GS technique in my view. Why not just be a ski instructor and not get into ski race coaching:)
@@Gregcoach you make some very good points. And I respect you saying I should stick to ski instructing and stay away from racing. But I’m interested in learning more especially from people like yourself with a lot of experience in race coaching. Perhaps we could set up a chat or even a podcast? I’d love to hear your thoughts on the obsession with high edge angles, what racers should be focused on, your views on how to develop this. This is a chance for many people to learn from an expert like yourself. Would you be open to something like that?
Thanks Tom
Nice breakdown, but shouldn't the timestamp on both video be exactly synchronized? The timestamp on the video is roughly .7 sec in favor of River.
No because that’s to do with their first run being added already to the time. This is second run. I synchronized it up with the exact time the start wand was broken to compare just the second run on its own.
Can you make an otherone video like this but from the same race?
Ski prep, equipment setup, tactics, line (intention vs. chance vs. recovery), fitness, confidence, vision, risk taking, luck. Lots of factors beyond technique. Careful with style preference vs. function, and of course, outcome! Big edge angles create more scrub, and tighten the radius in places where it may not always be beneficial. I agree it looks cool but it's not a judged sport, thankfully ;)
Yep totally. If you listen carefully I mention that. It is a video with a style bias. I wanted to do it that way as it’s nearly always not about that but the other factors you mention. Plus I don’t know about ski tune, psychology of these athletes, etc. but my eyes are seeing certain things and I’m commenting through my own lens. I think cautioning to be careful is what the world does a little too much of. “Don’t make mistakes.” “Don’t say something incorrect.” It’s quite liberating to get away from that at the end of the day what I say people can like or not like it’s their decision. This is not a rebuttal to your comment, but rather an attempt on my side to expand on why I created a video with a certain viewpoint on technique.
@@Bigpictureskiing I can't say 'careful' without triggering you, but you can admonish me to listen carefully... Joking, joking. But seriously, just encouraging you to make your lens a bit more clear, or adjust your F-stop. I like your mojo and if the picture on the wall is you skiing, well, then... you get it.
Nice job
Can you do one comparing Lucas Braathen and Odermatt from Soelden last year?
I let some 'eat my dust'; but, I am a very nice person. See you at the bottom.
Marco sono Matteo Valentino mi riguardo le mie gare per le dediche d amore che mi mandavano Anita mia fidanzata e nostra nipote Martina di Centa mentre correvamo io e suo papà Giorgio di Centa dormiva da Anita quando eravamo per il mondo ciao auguri per la stagione 23 24 ciao