Last Chance For The United States
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- SS United States Conservancy: www.ssusc.org/
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I took this ship from NYC to Southhampton in 1967. It had an indoor pool. We saw To Sir with Love in the theater. The food was amazing. I still have lots of memorabilia such as playing card sets, the original dinner menu signed by our waiter. As a kid I loved the journey. The only thing you had to pay for was liquor. We would be in our state room supposedly going to sleep and we would buzz the steward and have him bring us a banana split. Good times. Sad to see how it's ended up.
You lucky little sucker!
Unbelievable
I wish I got to live through the peak of human civilization instead I got the back side! I did get to sleep on the USS Ling as a scout. Another ship that could use some love
@@linuxuberuserThe year 1300 called. It wants its plague back.
Wow ❤ 😮 🇬🇧 AWESOME
Sad that the ship is being subjected to so much pier pressure.
I see what you didn't there
Love it
I believe the reason the company that owns the dock doubled the rent is because the conservancy was not paying anything. What other non- profit organization can afford to fork out $850.00 bucks per day in docking fees??
It's sad that decades go by and nobody ever steps up and does anything with it.
@@kitt2000carthat's a failure of the conservancy to organize and raise the money needed to do so. It's their job that's what they signed up for. So far they've failed at every attempt they've made to repurpose or save this ship. There's many people in this world who could single handedly write the check to save this ship, if they wanted to,nbut unfortunately it seems they have other priorities. Like space programs and a newly minted luxurious personal superyacht costing half a billion dollars. At the point the rent doubled to 1700 in 2021 the Conservancy hadn't seen a rent increase in a decade, they had been paying $850 a day ever since 2011. They enjoyed the luxury of a decade-long lease on that pier without a rent increase. During which time they ultimately failed to make any meaningful progress on saving the ship. It's just sad. By the way if the rent had increased with the pace of inflation it would have been a 1,024 a month by 2021. Everyday for the decade they rented that pier for 850 it got cheaper in real terms, before they finally raised the rent.
My parents' best friends were Johnny and Mabel Logue. Johnny was the chief engineer of the United States when I was growing up. He once gave us a tour of the whole ship - engine room and all - when it was docked in New York. It was amazing. I have fond memories of him.
Crossed the Atlantic on that ship in the early 1960’s. I was a kid with my family.
It's actually the is SS United States. SS=Steam Ship
screw steamer
Actually, prefixes like "SS" for Steam Ship or "MS" for Motor Ship are not part of the registered name of a ship, and you will also usually not find them painted as part of the name on the bow (except sometimes on some small inland water vessels). They're just a popular convention, but professionals tend to refer to the ships without those prefixes.
SS = Screw Steamer
PS = Paddle Steamer
That is how you can differentiate between the two steam ship types
@@ytzpilotI can tell by whether it has a paddle or a propeller
I rode this ship as an infant from the US to England with my mother and 2 sisters to join our father who was serving in the Air Force. I have next to no memory of the voyage, yet I feel that it is part of history and not just my history. It's just sad that it came to this.
The reason that she is not the "USS United States" is because she is not a Navy ship. Only U.S. Navy ships have "U.S.S.". She IS the "S.S. United States" (steamship). If she were a Navy ship she WOULD be the "United States Ship United States" redundancy be damned. There WAS a WWII destroyer named "The U.S.S. England" BTW. It was named after a guy named "England" and not the country. Great informative update on this great Phillie landmark otherwise. Fan of both you and of the ship.
As an Englishman, I like to pretend USS England is named after us.
I read that the top speed of the SS United States is classified.
@johncantwell8216 38.32 kn, 44mph or 70.97km/h
It made about 240,000 horsepower.
@@johncantwell8216 I read that it was 42 knots. Ten faster than the Normandie and the Cunard Queens of the day. And 10 faster than typical WWII navy cruisers.
@@andrewhammel8218 And almost 4 times as fast as those old Liberty ships that had to travel past the U-boats in WWll.
Boat is an acronym for Bust Out Another Thousand. There is no such thing as a "free" boat. The whole "double the moorage" trick is practiced by all harbors when they want to take someone's boat. They did it to my brother-in-law in Port Townsend, WA. He was in Alaska fishing and the port or one of their cronies wanted his partially restored 75 ft. tug, the Falcon, that was in drydock. He, not knowing they had doubled the rent, kept sending rent payments at the old rate. When he returned, he was slapped with the Falcon being sold at auction because he had "abandoned" it. This type of theft needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, it won't be in the current gov't system we have. We will have to be patient.
it’s a ship not a boat
@@GremmPaltakin As I recall, Fran was talking also about getting a boat. I was warning her about the unseen perils of boat ownership. Did you listen to the whole video?
As an Italian, it always baffles me to see the US's incredibile incompetence towards preserving its historical record... The once engineering pride of your nation is about to go forever and everyone goes "meh... Too much money anyways...". Here, if something is of historical significance, the state itself is forced by law to ensure its protection, but for you, if something doesn't make money it goes away... States without memory cannot feel "united"
Well said!
I don’t see any great Italian ships preserved either!
We're gonna regret this come the Tricentennial and onward in the future, there's gonna be a massive gap in our memory after the 50s until however long until we start preserving what we an - which I think will be the Tricentennial. We can be "united", just, with amnesia for quite a part of our history. Too much will fall into the "Digital Black Hole" I'm afraid, so we need physical and tangible reminders of our history.
Its because the entire place is completely corrupt and filled with incompetent morons .......watch the absolute rabid response to this comment😅😅.......which further proves the cult like brainwashing of the populace
@@mrFalconlem The Roman stuff tho...
You got me with that video title Fran, I thought this was gonna be about stuff like the economy or election, but it's an actual ship named the United States!😁
You’re not alone. The title looked frightfully ominous, and the image didn’t register.
Most people think she's talking about the country from the title, but the ocean liner community already knew, just like they knew about the piece of railing falling off of the Titanic.
That's an understandable assumption, since the doomsday clock is getting as close to midnight as it's ever been.
@@johnwsimpson3153Those guys have cried wolf far too many times to be taken seriously.
@@cd3949 Of course they do that every time the donations start drying up.
Definition of a boat or ship... a hole in the water, surrounded by steel or wood, in which one pours money.
I can tell you have first hand experience gained by owning one. There is no substitute!
I used to have a 29 foot Cascade sailboat in Tacoma that I lived on, it was a money sponge, even accounting saved rent. Now I have a 16 foot Lavro drift boat on a trailer in the back yard, costs nothing past the purchase price, and it's a steelhead machine.
@@johncolgrove2397 How is it a money pit if you live at sea? You are not paying docking while you are at sea.
@@linsqopiring6816 He didn't say he lived at sea. He said on his boat.
@@cattymajiv I didn't say he said that. But you might as well save the moorage fees.
Weird history of the United States, my mother was born in 1957 in Augsburg Germany.. This was the very ship she was brought home on with my grandmother… it’s sad to see it in the shape that it is in… 😢
Greetings from Augsburg😀
it’s sad to see her in the shape that she is in…
"It's not the cost of the elephant, it's the cost of the hay"
All the excitement of yore about getting a free camera... Until you realized how much the film cost to purchase and get developed.
@@docjody8624 : the same with ink jet printers and ink cartridges.
After seeing this and hearing of the imminent fate of the United States my partner and I had to come to Ikea for lunch and pay her our respects. It’s a real shame to lose such a piece of history due to pettiness.
that's hardly pettiness. more like...a big dose of reality. truly.
It seems you don't understand basic economics.
@@NunYa953 I understand the economics of it, and my point is that with something historically significant like the United States, pure economics shouldn’t be the only driving factor. It’s a symptom of our late-stage capitalist society.
@@TESFox
Ok. Why don't you pay for it then? Should be simple considering the historic significance. Nevermind the fact it's been sitting in the same place since 1996 with someone trying to do what you seem to think is simple.
Why is it some third party is always expected to support these flights of fancy.
If Philadelphia loves it so much then crowdfund it.
Irreplaceable artifact from an era never to be experienced again. Its destruction is akin to the razing of Pennsylvania Station. We are losing treasures we don’t even seem to realize we possess.
The country is going to be struggling to just not become a 3rd world nation with all the debt it must service and outsourcing of jobs and products to other countries and elite bankers gutting the economy and out of control immigration and drug fueled crime and homelessness epidemics, plus a lot of its wealth comes from using its military to force the us dollar on the world. When it stops being able to do that it is really doomed.
I hope they do a nice 3D scan of it so people in the future can visit it in VR. I think that’s the best way to preserve some things that are just too expensive to keep in the real world.
Is that needed though? She is still above water, and there is 360 degree drone footage, there is current interior footage, there is interior footage from 1991 with intact walls and power (on crappy VHS, but it has been cleaned up, and lasts nearly 4 hours!), and even photos from earlier than that from after 1969 to 1984 when the auction took place. A 3D scan is done for ships like Titanic, which will have to be updated because of the chunk of port side railing falling off. I don't even think Queen Mary or Queen Elizabeth 2 have scans of them done.
@@jdslyman1720 Well, I see it more of a form of preservation that will get better over time. Think 50 or 100 years from now and hopefully the VR experience will improve. Having 3d data will make it easier and more accurate than having to try to reconstruct something from images and videos.
Now that is a amazing idea if it gets junked
Great point it would sure be a lot cheaper. And if one day way in the future AI and automation give us unlimited resources it could even be rebuilt from them.
The main issue with this is that the modern contamination cleanup effort ends up exceeding the ship's value by a significant amount. The asbestos is all over the ship, and can't just removed, its critical enough of a component in some areas replacements would need to be fabricated. All the paint used all over is considered toxic, so it all needs to be removed. Even though it was gutted, it was gutted to many decades old standards, so there is a lot of chemical contamination that they just left when they ripped everything out. And it cannot practically be put back into service as a vessel easily as to install modern equipment you would need to cut lots of access ports in it, on top of that much of the structure has deteriorated from not being maintained. So that would generally mean x-ray and ultrasonic inspection of a lot of the structure and hull to determine if it could even stand the forces such a ship would incur at sea. All that is a LOT of money. And even scrapping it would require cleanup and transit beyond what anyone is willing to fund. The only area that really has semi-lacks regulations and standards is putting it on the ocean floor.
If there are so many toxic chemicals in it how can we pollute the ocean like that?
I don't want a boat. I want a friend with a boat.
This ship's condition reflects the country very well.
does not have to be. the people of this country better wake up and get back to protecting and maintaining THIS COUNTRY . right now, there is only one person who seems to think like that and people are stuck on voting for someone they like rather than someone who will actually get stuff done November is coming and it might be our last chance. think i am kidding, just look around. 🤔
idk not enough trash and guns or cars
The ship isn't as easy to manipulate
@@OriginalClam 😆
@@krwd You are 100% right. One of them is an extreme danger to this country and needs to be behind bars, asap.
Fran, In the early 2000’s I managed the asbestos abatement for the medical device company I worked for. In addition to hiring a certified abatement specialist, I hired a certified, independent third-party contractor to monitor air quality during the removal process, and to maintain air sampling monitors for months after abatement was complete. My point is that responsible, comprehensive asbestos removal is possible - if you can afford it. I agree with your position, because most buildings that have asbestos cannot afford to have the level of abatement performed that I was able to complete because of the prohibitive cost. In a vessel the size of United States, the cost of properly abating the hazardous materials on board would probably exceed the value of the ship.
The 'abated' buildings I have lived in were all just a day labor crew came in and literally ripped it all out into a pickup. Chunks of asbestos left on everything , under thousands of staples, etc. One place actually just threw all the asbestos batting into the basement crawl space. The United States so far as I am aware had that work done in a country where there is no regulation.
@@FranLabThank you for this sad, but fascinating post. The “abatement process” you described would have ended my career. Your comment reminded me that there are still places where personnel safety is of no concern. In contrast, I paid a premium rate to have all worked performed on 3rd shift (11:00 PM to 7:00 AM) so that no one was in the building except for me, the abatement crew, and the third party air monitors. They began work by surrounding the asbestos in custom plastic enclosures, and the workers wore Tyvek suits with gloves, booties, and powered breathing gear that were taped to create an occlusive seal. Each time a worker took a bathroom break it required discarding the used suit and replacing it with a new one. They also brought their own air lock equipment to allow safety equipment removal without exposing the workers to loose fibers. Importantly, the asbestos was thoroughly saturated with water to preclude any airborne fibers. Again, all it takes for safe removal is lots of money.
@@FranLab I imagine you could get a lot of somebodies in a whole heap of trouble by reporting such a thing to the EPA, OSHA, etc.
Did you post it on MySpace?
As usual, the sensible process is in between the extremes. It's madness to pay 5 figures for an air quality specialist when the building is wrapped and the workers in full body suits. And it's madness to hire day laborers to rip the stuff out like it's old lath and plaster.
Reading these 2 extreme examples makes me hang my head in shame.
Yeah, I've worked with it. I was one of the guys in the beekeeper suit. Full body, goggles, respirator, and lots of suction and filters. Not in a school or hospital setting, though - residential, and it was only one job.
Fran is a national treasure!
I sailed across the Atlantic on the SS France, the SS Hanseatic, the SS Oronsay, and some others. Those trips were absolutely amazing, and I am sorry it is unlikely they will happen again in our lifetimes. The SS France in particular was incroyable! The mega-cruise ships are not at all the same thing.
Right. Ship travel other than Carnival Cruises is dead. It's air travel cause folks need to be there ASAP.
@@craigpennington1251 Life if short you should value every second and not waste it.
I'm British but i know about this ship. It should be preserved as a peace of US and world Heritage.
Here in Britain we foolishly discarded so much of out marine history like HMW Warspite, the Nelsons and countless others.
Once their gone their gone):
P\s its a shame that the SS Normandie didn't have more asbestos (:
Don't forget the Queen Mary's running mate, the Queen Elizabeth. All of the old Cunard Queens (except for the current ones under Carnival ownership) were and are still loaded with that stuff, and it didn't stop QE from becoming flame broiled. If any repairs involving going into the walls of the Queen Mary are to be performed, they have to not only be very careful going in there, they have to also go through miles of red tape involving not only Long Beach, but also because of California's building codes. As far as the Queen Elizabeth 2 goes, I don't know if she still has it, because it might have been taken out when she had the engine swap in the 1980s.
the RMS Queen Mary is lucky she became a success otherwise another piece of British history would be lost. I know she sits in the U.S. but she just as much yours as she is ours.
@@crazyguy_1233 That's why I can't understand why the US won't attempt to save one our own but spent so much on a damned BRITISH pile of scrap! Let Britain have the Queen Mary BACK and save the United States! She's one of OURS!!
What you do have, and it took a lot of effort to make it happen, is the SS Great Britain (perhaps the first great ocean liner), in the dry dock where it was originally built in Bristol. Thank you (collectively) for that.
@@kevinbailey8827 I saw the restoration of that one. It was even worse than the SS US is. So it is possible, she just needs the know how, funds, and the right people. The Queen Mary is getting some of this, but not everything can be replaced, as it is no longer available. Some types of wood on the Mary are extinct for example.
Not the vid I thought I wanted but definitely the one I needed to see. ❤ Great, as usual
You can still do luxury transatlantic ocean liner crossings on the Cunard Line’s Queen Mary 2.
And that's the *only one* running today, the last of the ocean liners.
@@MattMcIrvin Really? I thought there were tons of cruise ships operating? I see them in our ports all the time. Big mega ships.
look what has been done with rich historical examples of architecture as Mount Vernon, Montpelier and now rebuiding Notre Dame of Paris...this a multi generational commitment. The same is true for naval maritime vessels. The SS US should not be sunk.
Good presentation.
I have restored and lived aboard several wooden boats.
Its a full time job. And with a paying full time job avg weeks are 7 days, 15 hours daily until majority of work completed.
Id say 80% of the people who dream of the life walk or run away within 6 months.
Enduring heat, rain and snow yearly takes a lot of stamina.
My boats ranged from 30 to 50 foot.
All work of blood and sweat done alone.
B. Break
O Out
A Another
T Thousand
She should be declared a National Monument with federal money being
used for its rebuild
Our government waste enough of our tax dollars already, it's already become someone else's problem, and it's not my problem or anyone else's, just the people who built it for their own gain, and now they want to pollute our oceans with it, amazing how we would get a ticket for throwing a piece of paper out the window of your car, but this is somehow OK??
It's a rotting eyesore, a carbuncle on the city. Give it to Elon, he can launch it into space.
We have the Queen Mary near my home in Long Beach. The ship has had its ups and downs, but manages to keep visitors coming and it’s a very cool place. To visit. There are plenty of warship museums, but as far as I know Queen Mary is the only passenger ship museum in N. America. Philadelphia should have done the same with the United States. It’s a shame that the city didn’t recognize the potential.
The city has had such corrupt leadership for decades that it's not surprising they haven't seen what a gem they have there. Sad, but not surprised.
I agree. It could have been made into a floating hotel right in the city. People absolutely would have visited. Its ridiculous that the governments can't spend a few million on when billions more are wasted on stupid projects. They can't lift a finger to save our history they'd rather cover over it and fill their pockets with even more money.
At 13, summer of 1967, I sailed the SS United States from Le Havre to New York. I was seasick the whole time, but it was still fun :)
How could it be fun while you are sea sick lol. That sounds like pure misery to me.
Every time I shop at that IKEA I spend a decent amount of time standing in front of that café window. Thanks for this video.
Docking fees = Land taxes = a mechanism to stop you from simply existing!
There's no place on earth that you can go and just exist living off the land, you are forced to have money to pay someone who gives them the right to kick you off the land which you thought was yours but in reality it's never your land!
I don't know of any island that isn't claimed by some government who will turn up and ask for taxes!
The land is originally purchased from the government and when the time comes the government will just take it back without paying for it! The right thing to do would be for the government to buy it back, if the original owner is no longer alive, the money should be paid to the descendants of the original owner.... But that would be a great and perfect world and we just can't have nice things.....
Yep, property taxes are some of the most evil things that modern governments do. You can't just "live".
@@Michael_L_ there's literally nowhere on earth that you can go and simply exist without interacting with people, there will always be someone from some government department who will turn up with their hand out asking for the thing that keeps them afloat! That thing that you in such a situation would have absolutely no use for!
I'm not saying that I want to live an isolated life! I'm saying that if you so choose to for whatever reason, you can't! You would be kicked off that land and forced to move elsewhere until you end up right back into the heart of a city or town where you Have To Work to survive and for the benefit of others! This is exactly what someone wants for you and exactly right where they want you!
The last thing that they want is for everyone to walk away into their own little corner where they can't be pressured into working more than is necessary for your survival.... You would have way too much time on your hands and we can't have that now, can we! We can't possibly have the people at the so called top doing physical labour just to survive just like the rest of us?
It won't be long before the moon and Mars will be off limits too.... Pluto is beginning to appear to be too close to society.... The human kind....
It's unfortunate that museum ships are eye-watering expensive to maintain. It's amazing that the United States has escaped scrapping or sinking this long.
Sinking old ships as artificial reefs is, I think, one of the nobler of endings a ship can have. We abuse the oceans and take life from the sea; sending our vessels to help repair the harm is the one thing we can do by way of apology. Sending our ships - which may be well loved vessels - to do that one last job, that one thing they can still usefully do on our behalf, is quite an emotional thing really. The best thing possible for United States really is to have a ceremony of some sort for those who wish it, tow her out and let her slip quietly under the waves to her resting place, build some sort of marine wildlife centre on shore where youngsters can learn about all the sea life that has grown up around her, and leave her undisturbed in her slumbers by nothing more offensive than the occasional diver and tourist submarine.
It's certainly the case that the best way to have fun with a boat is to borrow someone else's...
The idea of the true ocean liner has not gone away. The Queen Mary 2 was built as an ocean liner, to be able to cross the Atlantic quickly no matter the weather. When hurricanes come, others run away, but the QM2 simply slows down a bit to avoid giving the passengers too rough a ride. She's a big ship and does 30knots on full power. One of the reasons to build her big was so that the structural requirements of an ocean liner could be achieved whilst making the passenger spaces big enough to also be attractive for cruising. And, there are people who do prefer to cross the Atlantic that way, rather than flying.
Saving the United States in any meaningful way would cost an absolute fortune. The fundamental problem spending such a fortune is that new bare hulls are not very expensive (as such). Block-based ship building has got remarkably cheap. If you wanted a floating anything (ship, moving ship, hotel, theme park), it'd be far cheaper to have a new hull built than it would be to clean out and repair United States' hull. Fitting out is also expensive, but it's a lot cheaper if one is starting with a fresh sheet of paper and a uncontaminated hull designed with modern modular fitting out practices and technologies in mind.
Frankly, if you wanted a working United States, you'd be a lot better off building a new one exactly the same shape rather than trying to do it with the old one. The trouble is if you did so, it'd not really be the United States. So one quickly gets into deep philosophical considerations about what one's true objectives are. To cling on to a long-gone age? To have some sort of tourist attraction? To have a means of relaxing travel? To retain a familiar cityscape landmark?
I wonder how well aluminium would hold up as an artificial reef?
@@markfloyd7206 probably quite well. We’re still digging crashed spitfires out of beaches and such and though bent there generally seems to be quite a lot of aluminium left.
Probably helps that aluminium corrodes to protect itself
A kind of "Giving Tree" (Shel Silverstein children's book").
The S.S. Independence is parked on the east side of San Francisco near a waterfront cafe. I was on it around 1954. We came back from Europe on it. (I was four, and I have some pics) It got dressed up at some point with Carnival like graphics on its stovepipes. But just finding it by accident when going to this place for lunch about 4 years ago was an amazing moment.
@@sclogse1 She's still around? I thought it and the Constitution were scrapped years ago. I remember seeing both of them mentioned in episodes of I Love Lucy, with Lucy managing to get herself stuck in a porthole 🤣
The Independence is long gone - she was hauled away to be scrapped by breakers on the Indian coast over a decade ago.
We sailed on the S.S. Independence twice in the 1950s. First class each time. My brother and I would play hide and seek; I know every nook and cranny of that ship. Same with the S.S. Constitution, which we sailed on once. Great memories.
As a tradesman I understand the condition and difficulties of restoration. Your explanation of the situation and problems was spot on and so direct. Amazingly crystal clear. Thank you. I wish I had your clarity of communication! You rock!
In1969 I was 12 and we went to Hampton VA to my uncles for vacation from MO. We went on a boat excursion and went right beside the United States and my aunt said it had just got there on it's last trip. I just remember looking up the side of it and how big it was.
It really deserves to be saved. It was a feat of engineering the fastest civilian ship ever built. It has held the record since the 1950s. It reached 50mph on its record run easily and I believe it could have gone 60mph if it was really pushed. I hope that if it defaults to the dock they do save it. It really could be an amazing attraction if the right group got their hands on it. Even if the sale doesn't go through it will still sit in limbo. It has enough historical value and you are right. The city of Philadelphia wastes money everywhere and they can't spend some of it to save what has become a city landmark. Heck the U.S. government can't spare a few million to save it when we waste billions on worthless projects? Its ridiculous seeing the governments here letting our history rot away or get paved over.
Yes why doesn't the Pier owner turn it into an attraction and make more money than just docking fees?
@@mistymvp917because berth and docking rights for a big container ship in the US can be around $100k per day.
@@426baron Lol sure.
Yesterday I saw this video on my TH-cam home page. Today I was reading one of the great writers from Catalonia: Josep Pla. Specifically, I was reading "A summer weekend in New York", from 1954, who narrates Pla's first arrival to New York from La Havana by ship. He was traveling from Cadiz (Spain) in the "Guadalupe", a ship from the "Transatlantica" company. And my surprise arrived when he described the arrival at the pier of the Hoboken harbor, took a ferry to NY and passed by the "United States"!!! I heard the call, put away my book and saw the complete video!!! I see that the ship is still in Philadelphia, and I hope that all the parts involved can find a solution to save this historical wonder!!! Greetings from Catalonia!!!
There was a cigarette with an asbestos filter? Amazing. Also the Munsters thing is a great piece of trivia.
Kent "Micronite". It had Blue Asbestos as a filter
When I got moved into a deaf school in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1975, the school buildings were old wartime brick buildings of a long barracks type construction as I believe the place was a former anti-Aircraft/Army training site during the war. Inside the classrooms and offices were perporated chipboard paneling filled with Brown Asbestos 'wool'. Our history teacher, Mr McCrae, always used to warn us not touch the brown 'wool' poking out of damaged areas of the wall where it had been punched in, as it was "very bad stuff!". He later died of throat cancer in 1979. A new modern school was eventually built a few miles away.
Once the ship was gutted its fate was sealed. Time has only delayed the inevitable.
You'd think the Ship could be berthed at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard along with the other mothball fleet vessels.
That's where they store US navy ships, not passenger or commercial ships... and they've been getting rid of a lot of navy ones as well.
My mother took my sisters from NY City to London back in the 1960's, It sat in Norfolk Virginia for years, and they used to open it up from time to time and sold silver ware, plates, furniture and all kinds of stuff. I picked up half a dozen orange life preservers with SS United States printed on them. When you went in at that time it smelled pretty bad.
While she is structurally sound, she has been completely gutted of all fittings and furnishings. The cost of restoring her to any usable level is simply prohibitive.
It's probably not structurally sound either from decades of zero maintenance.
Asbestos siding is hanging tough on my home after 80 years. Performance engineering in the first half of the twentieth century was the worlds best.
Amen brother. My house is also sided in asbestos that is still in fantastic condition after decades. As long as I'm not scratching at it with a wire brush it's completely safe.
Everything was engineered for permanence. These days such excellence is viewed as wasteful. Everything now is designed to be disposable and in 100 years if we are still around there will only be images and audio of the way things are today.
Nah. We can out-engineer *anything* from the first half of the 20th century. The thing is, it's easier to go with highest profit and not build stuff to last for a century.
@@mikesradiorepair You will never know about the mesothelioma fatalities it has caused over the years.
@@bernardboka4277 Survivorship bias. They made a lot of crap, it just never survived to the present day.
I came to America from Germany on the sister ship "America" in 1963. It sunk while being towed off the Canary islands in the 90's. Old ships sink. Let it go.
I came to the USA on Thanksgiving day 1961 on the SS United States. When they served the Thanksgiving Day meal, my parents (Who were from England) had never seen so much food. They told me, what an amazing country that will serve so much good food even to the budget passengers who were not in First Class.
This is such a cool ship & can't believe that it hasn't been in the least restored somewhat. But like most things in life, people don't want old but everything NEW. A bad deal really because in doing so, we loose much of our history & it's forgotten forever.
They want all our historical culture and achievements as European people gone , all part of the plan .
My Dad was a drydock engineer. I think he told me he worked to repair this ship once. That the fairings for the propeller shafts were considered secret for a while because of their advanced design.
Definition. Boat,: A bottomless hole in the water that you throw money into!
I just went to IKEA last week to say goodbye to the United States. Fantastic old boat. Came back with a couch, too.
The city really ought to have just bought the damned ship-ages ago. But no, University City needs a "riverfront beach" next to the expressway instead, with a "kayak grotto" (whatever that is).
I have been to the ship twice before. It is a wonderful monument.
Hello! 0:10 Just a mild clarification: "SS" prefix stands for "steam ship" so the actual name of the ship is "SS United States" 🙂
The first time I ever saw the United States was in 1987 in Norfolk Virginia. It still looked seaworthy back then. .... It's sad to see it now.
Ever since the interior and climate control equipment was removed, it seems like the SS US has decayed faster. 1994 to now is harder on her than 1969 to 1993 was. Structurally, the hull is still strong, but how long will that be with more bare metal exposed? Aluminum corrodes too, so the superstructure is not in that great of condition compared to the hull itself.
In 1960 at age 5 I sailed with my family aboard United States from Rome, It. to NYC my hometown. Too rough that evening to swim in the pool but we went to see it anyway. Stood out on deck next day on a calm sea. The 45mph gale we experienced on deck was caused by the ship's 240,000 hp turbines. And it was 24mph faster and over 100ft longer than Titanic! COOL! Chief Engineer told us the only wood aboard was the chopping block in the galley and the musicians' instruments.
Captain's dinner had a giveaway to little kids. Out came the Schuco red windup racecars! I salivated. But, like Charlie Brown on Halloween, "I Got A Rock." Might as well have been, It would have been more mercyful. A 'Jaunty' Blue flat wooden Cupiedoll sailor that did the Kazotsky Dance when you pulled the little wooden bead on the end of its little red string. HORRIFYING to any self-respecting five-year-old anywhere on any spectrum. This was a kink in the trajectory of my young life, the first of many as it turns out. You see, the Red Racecars went to those with portholes in their cabins. AAUUGGHHHHH!!! Important lesson, "To the PORTHOLES go the SPOILS!" BUT I STILL HAVE THAT CURSED BOOBIE PRIZE! Have a few other mementos. Same ones as@PanDownTiltLeft. I will miss her SPEED She would be an ICONIC addition to the MEMPHIS,Tn. riverfront. My current home.
Impressive recall
I aged several years in MEM whilst residing there for only a few months. It was a marvelous and frustrating place with many lovely, wonderful people and an unfortunate number of slimy criminals, politicians, and preachers (might that be redundant?). At least Graceland didn't get hijacked!
Great video. It’s a bitter end. She made it 72 years only to be reefed. Listen, I came to your TH-cam channel through a link on a posting in the SS United States page on Facebook. Anyway, the main takeaway for me was your t-shirt that introduced me to WPRB. What a fabulous station. I’m a left-end of the dial, non-commercial, free-form kind of fellow, and so I’m happy to be tuning in via TuneIn or RadioApp (I tried OTA at 103.3 with a big nasty directional log-periodic antenna connected to a Sony XDR-F1HD, but no go - the 14,000 watts didn’t quite make it to NYC’s northern tier). I must say though, WPRB is right up there with stations in my area like WPKN and WFMU, so thanks so much for having sported the tee.
I liked the video because you cover the mechanics both legal and financial of why everything is where it is at. Many reports via news networks and other TH-camrs do not. These details are very important to the context of the current discussions!
I’ve never watched a video about boats/ships like this one. I want to tell you that I’m really enjoying this.
My brother and his wife took the United States back from France, where they had lived for a year or so. Late 60's.
I seriously doubt the pier wants the ship in exchange for the back rent. But I don't know.
There are several videos on YT of some folks wandering around the ship. It's in horrific condition, it would take a flaming fortune to refurb it.
I remember in 1986 I lived in LA, and the Queen Mary had just been perma-docked at the port of Long Beach, where I attended a trade show one day. I wandered up to the ship, and it was completely open and nobody was there. I walked onto the ship and wandered around the thing for a few hours. I didn't see any other people on board over a couple of hours. It was a little beat up, but essentially intact. Spectacular interiors, beautiful nickel-plated art deco rails and decor everywhere. Forests of Birdseye maple trim. The city thought it would be an attraction and they eventually had a hotel and restaurant on board but they could never make it into any kind of money making thing. And they put in what I thought was a good effort at the time.
The record of making these old ships into tourist attractions is simply not good. The combination of the upkeep and the implied value of the docking facility which could be used for freight is too great.
Thanks Hello Fran from Scotland
Peter! 😍
New Orleans has an uninhabited landmark skyline building near the superdome. The 20 story Plaza Tower sold not long ago for less than $800,000. It's still uninhabited because the estimate for asbestos removal is over 75 million, and there would still be a risk.. It can't even be demolished without spreading asbestos all over the downtown area. Even the asbestos removal requires the building to be practically demolished down to the girders. Someone will eventually be allowed to get away with demolishing it. Likely by "accidental" fire even though any owner is required to have a 24 hour fire watch. New Orleans is very corrupt that way. It's a hazard even being near it. Like low level radiation contamination. Can't even enter the building without a full respirator hazmat suit, and there's still a risk. The building is literally built on a small "island" in the middle of the main downtown access street intersection which intersects with the main freeway access ramps which are near the main New Orleans I-10 freeway intersection. It's across the street from the main bus, and train terminal.. Next block from the main post office then City Hall, and state office buildings then the main public library. Practically impossible to visit New Orleans without coming within 40 feet of the building. Even more unlikely to live in New Orleans without often coming within 10 to 20 feet. Any asbestos dust from the building landing on the surrounding streets will be kicked into the air by traffic. Likely exposes everyone.
On the topic of asbestos. Old cars that had asbestos brake pads, and other asbestos insulation and garages they used are asbestos risks. The problem with removing asbestos from buildings is the same as causes lung disease. The dust is too small to get rid of causing COPD, and cancer.
For $100 I bought a 22 foot live aboard sailboat harbored in Marina Del Rey. $10 a month per foot. 25 foot minimum. $250 a month. Not bad for living rental with shore power, and water included. Many people lived "On the hook" free to anchor sheltered by the Bolona Creek breakwater. Using transient docks for shopping. Pirating marina slips for shore power, and water. But it was nightmarishly small to live aboard. I have been tempted by some eBay boats in the 35 to (rarely) 45 foot range for $1000 to $2000. But all the ads pictures are unreliable about boat condition. No guarantee. Have to travel to see, Seen a couple with good looking pictures relisted by the seller immediately after sold. A buyer saw it and refused it as soon as he saw it. Seller swindling buyers. When auctioned I've seen any in person interest in the boat raise the price with bids by friends of the seller. I bought mine by sealed bid. There are ways around open auction cheats but they're risky. Every time I think it over the nightmare of that Columbia 22 comes back.
There is a nightmarishly gorgeous steel schooner on eBay. Looks good in pictures. 75 foot, 15 foot bowsprit, 90 foot total, Registered 59 ton, actual 90 ton displacement. Seller claims recent refurbish. $199,000.
I was almost 16 when I sailed from Southampton to New York in June 1966 with my parents. It was a most exciting trip I had ever been on. Even as a lad I was so impressed with her speed, especially watching from the stern as the 4 screws made their powerful and turbulent path forward. The 1st Class staterooms were amazing. It is hard to believe the beautiful interior is complely gone now.
Thank you for bringing back fond memories.
You are like a breath of fresh air, Fran.
Fran is right about the asbestos. When encapsulated it's not a problem but once that capsule is broken it goes everywhere. Some ships had asbestos ceiling tiles which were unpainted and due to the constant vibration of the ship they would constantly shower asbestos down onto everyone aboard.
AWESOMEvideo! thank you for documenting this great SHIP before its gone!
"SS United States". "SS" is a civilian destination for "Steam Ship". "USS" is a US Navy designation.
Loved this ship for decades. A marvel when it was launched.
Hey Fran, great vid as always. My mother immigrated(emigrated?) from Germany on the United States in 1955. She's still in Philly.
One of the best things to do about asbestos is the "entomb in place" option. This is where they spray it down with super sticky spray paint and just leave it there. The paint involved is not much more than normal spray paint but its binder is something that has a long life in the environment.
That is what most people don't understand. The asbestos is inert if left alone. Clutch plates and brake shoes and pads are made with asbestos unless a better product has been found. I worked in auto parts for about 14 years and I handled a lot of brake shoes and brake pads and clutch plates and have not had any issues because of asbestos. I've known mechanics that replaced clutches, brake shoes and pads for 50 years or even longer and they were never affected health wise by asbestos. There are so many houses with asbestos siding that people have lived in their entire lives and they have not been harmed in any way. The hysterical way of dealing with asbestos is ridiculous. It's actually flat out stupid.
That's also how you remake a complicated legacy hardware system or codebase that works (but blows up if you try to modify it). Entomb it behind a new interface, connect the interface to the legacy system then one by one replace the interface functions/connections to a new circuit/software module. Eventually you have everything going to the new system and you can then remove the legacy system.
You are spot on.
The ship was entirely stripped of its asbestos in the 1990s. None of this would matter now.
@@F-Man You're missing her point.
Those canards on the funnels are a really cool looking addition.
I think those were the only way to keep soot from falling on the passengers without having to lengthen the stacks.
I served 22 years in the U. S, Navy. I hate to see any ship scrapped, particularly those I served in. My grandmother made a number of trips to Europe on this vessel that were sponsored by the catholic church. This was in the early 1950s. I remember seeing pictures of her and a catholic bishop taken on deck while underway. Unfortunately, the age of air travel pretty much killed the ocean liner industry with cheaper fares and shorter travel times.
Fran, I love the things you share on your channel.
This is as heartbreaking as what happened to the Normandie.
The United States should be berthed at Penn's Landing.
What an attraction she would be!
You just need a hazmat suit and respirator to go tour it
$1 million? Do you have any idea what it would cost to restore that ship? I live in Buffalo and we have the destroyer USS Sulivans - which partially sunk back in 2022, along with the sub the USS Croaker, which both are going to cost the Buffalo Naval Park, City of Buffalo, New York State, and the Feds $21 million to dry dock the 2 vessels next year. They are no where near the size or scope of the US United States. It's going to cost like $3 million alone just to dredge the Buffalo River to get the vessels out of the mud to move them to dry dock in Erie Pa.
Afaik to restore it and make it a floating hotel about 1 billion dollars is estimated. So probably twice that to make it a seaworthy liner again while preserving its history
If so, it needs to go to China or India for restoration.
No one is going to recoup the money they would have to put into that thing to make it into anything usable... let alone an artificial reef. What do you even do about the lead paint it's covered with?
the SS US wiki page is wrong, it says the ship was featured in Gentleman Prefer Blondes. I re- screened that & it's not featured at all, the interior shots are all sets & the only exterior shot is actually of a model with 3 stacks so totally bogus
A model with 3 stacks? The ship went to France, so maybe the French Line had a triple stacker at that point? I know the Ill De France started out with 3, but was reduced to two after WWII. She was shown in the movie "The Last Voyage" with two stacks, but the name was changed.
Bright Sun Films here on YT had done a few great mini-documentaries on this ship over the years. I suggest looking at those for even more history and a look inside in recent years.
I think that a part of the soul went out of this country whenever they quit doing cruises between the US and Europe. At least in my mind that's the way I feel whenever I watch movie from the 40s. And early 50s. Excellent video thank you for all the information I knew nothing of this ship.❤
The SS United States was docked at the Norfolk Naval Ship Yard in 1972. A navy ship damage control training facility was abreast that ship. We were trained to fight fuel fires aboard aircraft carriers. A course in ship damage control was mandatory every 3 years or transfer to a new station for all hands. I had an USN commander in my class.
How very symbolic of the United States
Russian bot
There’s no shortage of places to anchor a boat for free in the rivers and bays of the US. And there are plenty of places to dock at a reasonable cost, especially short-term.
Probably don't want a toxic floating horror show full of lead, loose asbestos fibers and who knows what else.
I was talking about her owning a sailboat and cruising the East Coast.
@@WeThePeople76
Oh. Thanks.
While riding the tourist ferry to Ellis Island in 1962, we passed this vessel on its way outbound. I shot a fuzzy 8mm movie of it, which I will upload to YT soon.
Always love listening to you.
The ship is an indication where the USA is headed.
And the USA wold be worse off dumping money into this bottomless pit.
Not at all true; I'm very weary of people trash-talking the USA. Choices have to be made, and this ship has no future. It's sad, we can all agree, but such is life.
@@jacksons1010 Agree.
@@MrShobar But you are okay with the British Queen Mary sucking up so much money and dock space that could be allocated to preserving one of OUR ships?
@@MrShobar Stop handing illegals loaded debit cards and giving them down payments for houses and we could save this ship and fund many other needed things. I have no patience for those who want to erase history.
any one of the dozens of multi-billionaires could afford this out of their petty cash, but for everyone else the sums are prohibitive. They're all competing over how big their private yachts are, maybe we can trick one of them into buying "the ultimate flex"?
We sailed on the S.S. United States in November 1952. So, not the maiden voyage which was July 1952, I believe. It was New York to Southhampton and then a one day trip to La Havre. Great ship. About 10 years ago, I got a chance to see her once again, moored in the Delaware River, in Philadelphia. When I left the docks, I pretty much knew I was saying goodbye to her forever. Very sad.
When I drove a big rig from Canada I often went to a place pretty much right there by the ship.
There were several unions that represented the officers and crew. The sailors union was the National Maritime Union to which I belonged when I started sailing in the merchant marine in the late1970's. I met a man in the NMU hall who was an ordinary seaman on the United States in her hay day. She was a floating casino. The crew had their own casino below decks and this man was the pit boss. He hired other sailors to cover his official duties so he could be a full time pit boss which was very lucrative. There was a lot going on below decks.
I've been living on my boat for 7 years. And true slips and docks are expensive. There are still places you can anchor out for free. I've done this for 6 of those 7 years. Only while I had an in office job, did I pay for an over priced slip. That dream of living on a boat is difficult, not impossible.
If you look at it on Google maps, it's actually surrounded by heavy industrial recycling plants. 😂 I wouldn't be surprised if no I've in power actually tried to make a contact with the recyclers in Philly and heart across the river because they weren't able to smoothly workout a way to get kickbacks and do racketeering on the project.
Makes me wonder, if they can preserve an old British ship, the original Queen Mary at Long Beach California and the 1st Nuclear powered passenger/cargo ship in Baltimore Maryland, plus submarines, etc.. So why not the United States ship? My Wife & I had a tour of the Queen Mary and My son had a tour of the 1st Nuclear powered ship. Just think we're losing a historic ship to Greediness.
My guess is they will eventually strike a significantly reduced deal on the back dock rent. Because at the end of the day the conservancy just goes bankrupt, the property is then legally "abandoned", and there would be no entity to sue to move it. Then the dock owners would be liable for litigating again with the city to remove the abandoned property, and that will just take loads of more time in which they cannot use the dock nor will they have any legal contract allowing them to claim any kind of rent. And if they essentially move the ship in any way shape or form that party will become at least partially responsible for it. Now the city could then declare its a water hazard and kick things to the EPA, but then if the city does that add another 2-3 years of no rent to that timeline.
That clock on the top shelf looks a lot like the Heathkit clock I just built, except mine has green LEDs and does not have the brown trim with logo below the digits. I'm going to look into dimming the seconds digits significantly because if they were dimmed, it would be faster seeing what time it is at a glance.
It seems that after so many years without consensus as what to do with the Liner United States. But it seems the real tragedy to the vessel occurred when Developer Hadley purchased the vessel, and then neglected it except when it was found "convenient" to strip the ship of its fittings, furniture, and anything else of value and sold in auction. It's a real shame one of America's "wealthy" families who could have easily purchased the ship and retrofitted her did not do so. Which speaks volumes about America's wealthy as their allegiance to America goes only as far as they can continue to make money hand over fist by exploiting the poor and middle classes since "slavery" is no longer legal.
This is so interesting. Unfortunately those things happen a lot in North America. In Edmonton we all had to pay for a pre hockey arena, while the old glorious one is now in a state very similar to this ships, awaiting a demolition that will cost the city tens of millions, which we of course have to cover through our taxes.
Unlike the Queen Mary, this ship has been gutted and stripped down to the bones, there is no historic left, it's just an empty hull now. I too love the history but lets be real, it's too far gone...........just the facts of it, not the emotion.
I can't believe they'd sink the United States.
They sunk the USS America CV-66 and the USS John F. Kennedy CV-67 was scrapped , so.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why would the dock operators want to seize the ship? Sure there are theoretically many millions of dollars worth of scrap, but moving it somewhere it could be cut up and the cutting up itself would cost millions, so probably not a great investment
I can't see why it would cost that much to chain it to the back of a container ship that's heading to china anyway - probably give the captain of the container ship a few grand in cash, and they'd tow it all the way to the recyclers no questions asked
@@gorak9000towing such a big vessel remotely safely needs a special ocean going tug, probably multiple, with crews that now how to handle it. Anyone else attempting it just endangers themselves
If the dock operators were to obtain ownership, they could the ship for its scrap value and make a profit.
Literally heartbreaking, that ship could be restored for what the US sends to other country’s in a week. Fact is people will spend money to dive down to her when she’s sunk but few could care less now.
Thanks for a very interesting update. I hadn't realized that things with the Unired Sataes were so bad.