Being an old school Journeymen Industrial Machine Repairman, I learned a long time ago, when I had to redrill and pin an existing hole, I would put the tapered reamer into the original hole and then clamp it in a vice. That way the original hole is perfectly aligned. Then remove the tapered reamer and use a drill bit the same size as the top hole. Using it as a guide bushing to keep the drill from walking. After marking the shaft, I would use the proper size drill bit to drill the hole through the shaft. The install the tapered reamer and then ream it to the finished size. 👍
I had a little trouble following your technique but after watching the video it made perfect sense. It’s sort of like when I comment before watching a whole video and realize that whatever I was commenting on was covered in part of the video I hadn’t watched yet. 72 years old and I’m still working on patience. Lol
You made me remember David Richards steam powered machine shop. He's not posting as often now but in the past, He has rebuilt a few Pickering Steam Engine Governors along with a few steam Engines! Now that I'm reminded of it, I miss watching The Wizard. Hope He's doing alright these days.😕... National treasure Old Guys keeping us wise in the old ways... Thanks for Doing All you do...✌👍
Yea, it seems like he’s only putting out a couple videos a year lately, he winter overs in Florida and he usually gets 2-3 videos out when he’s down there. His shop in Florida is small (he gets part of the garage I think) but everything in there is immaculate, a small South Bend lathe and a good work bench. He needs a small vertical mill for it and he’d be set. A couple years ago he built a governor for a machine from scratch, if I had any questions about steam engines and their parts I would get in touch with him. I’ve commented on his videos before and if I had a question he would usually reply, It seems he enjoys sharing his knowledge.
So awesome to see the precision and oldschool, but still totally valid, engineering on such a device. Mr. Rucker is a master, and it shows. So satisfying to see this machine put back together right. She's good for another few decades, as long as maintained properly.
Hello my friend. Great repair to that old school steam valve. You made it better than new witch takes us to our moto of making the piece better than new. A moto my grandad always had me perform on everything that came into the shop door. Make them like they were all yours. Words I will take to my last breath. Thanks for another great post and I will folow along behind you. Great stuff Keith.
Thanks Keith for interesting precise video. Your going through the thought process, why you changed the original engineering and the tapered pin joint, was particularly good for a fellow like me.
I agree with the one-piece approach, and that it was made 2 piece as a cost saving measure. That much slop would cause problems with any controller, by laggng its setpoint then overshooting it. Small changes in valve opening results in big volume changes with high pressure steam!
Nice to now have that Ameribrade grinder in the shop. It's already showing how handy its going to be for just about any project. It is one sweet design.
Keith. I am at 15:28 in your video as you are about to drill the hole for the cross pin in the valve stem. I think you about to make a serious error as the "Lock nut" is slotted, implying that the cross pin should allow vertical movement of the stem. You should have measured the distance from the base of the valve stem (large end) to the original hole and placed your new cross pin hole there. Not knowing the engineering that went into the assembly may mean that you are possibly making an error by assumption. I wish you could hear me yell "Stop!" before you drilled the hole. Oh weel, you can always make a new stem.
I recall alot if comments on the last video advising to keep the existing design. Be interesting to find out if his modification still works the same when it's done. I'm not an expert but in my experience cost wasn't usually a key deciding factor in design of such equipment at the time which would lead me to believe it was like that for a functional purpose
One tactical suggestion: put the 'sorry about the cable in the shot' at the very end of the shot. People might not notice it until the end of the shot, when you would say sorry. 😂
Yes - was taught that too, back in the day when it was considered ok to reinforce the point with a clip round the ear when a trainee was seen to do it - ask me how I know!
When using tipped tool inserts on bronze you ei ALWAYS get a taper due to the inbuilt radius on the tops so why not go OLD SCHOOL and finish with tool steel tools and light cutting so there is load less force and a better finish too?
I'm not a machinist so please don't flame me too bad if this is a really stupid question: When using the edge finding tool, isn't the actual edge at the very instant BEFORE the tip kicks out? Isn't the kick caused by just going past the edge? I mean a fraction of a tenth of a thousandth past the edge. Certainly good enough to consider it the edge, but "technically"... I think that every time I see an edge finder used, maybe I'm stupid.
Probably, technically.. when centering on a feature these errors are mirrored and zeroed out, so it doesn't matter. If you really need it spot on using an indicator is the preferred method but in my experience edge finders are routinely within a thousandth of an inch.
Keith. Love your stuff, especially the Tally Ho capstan project. ❤Just have a few queries though. Brass and steam. Not that great. Internal corners with a sharp edge. Not great. A fillet will help reduce the stress points and distribute the load. Solid brass piece? It most likely needs some movement as per the original design.
no brass in contact with boiler water or steam only bronze ia allowed ( see my other post , the steam hot water causes the zinc in the brass to be leached out . therefore any boiler fitting must be made of bronze not brass inc any item in the steam path
Or the pinned part was a redesigned previous repair. without having the original drawings there is no way to make any assumptions. Governors do hate slop and play so the tighter the control rods are the better. Looking at the design itself there is pretty much no misalignment posible that's can be caused by threads anyway.
Brass or bronze? They are not interchangeable in this application! It will be bronze as brass breaks down in steam environments. Please don't turn a reamer backwards! Cheers, Matthew
dezincification is the cause of the crumbling ( brass copper/zinc bronze coper /tin + others inc aluminium and beryllium ). as a side note not team but brass in a chlorine environment will crumble , as it will when coke fired sand moulds dryers where in use
The original was probably Navy G bronze alloy which is a lead free version that is particularly good for steam applications. Ordinary brass is OK for hobby use but not for this application. Considering it is not for a working machine and will only be used for occasional displays, it will probably be good enough.
Although it was brass or bronze (probably bronze) it’s still recommended to use a new or very sharp tap and a water soluble lubricant or water to tap it. I think the tap was run too deep. It looked like it drove slightly past the proper depth with no resistance. And stop turning the reamers backwards.
I am just not a fan of changing the engineering fornthis governor. I think the stem is two piece to allow it to adjust. A mistake to change that design IMO.
Being an old school Journeymen Industrial Machine Repairman, I learned a long time ago, when I had to redrill and pin an existing hole, I would put the tapered reamer into the original hole and then clamp it in a vice. That way the original hole is perfectly aligned. Then remove the tapered reamer and use a drill bit the same size as the top hole. Using it as a guide bushing to keep the drill from walking. After marking the shaft, I would use the proper size drill bit to drill the hole through the shaft. The install the tapered reamer and then ream it to the finished size. 👍
I had a little trouble following your technique but after watching the video it made perfect sense. It’s sort of like when I comment before watching a whole video and realize that whatever I was commenting on was covered in part of the video I hadn’t watched yet. 72 years old and I’m still working on patience. Lol
yup, its not that hard
I just ream the holes until they are clean and put always a new tapered pin …
You made me remember David Richards steam powered machine shop. He's not posting as often now but in the past, He has rebuilt a few Pickering Steam Engine Governors along with a few steam Engines! Now that I'm reminded of it, I miss watching The Wizard. Hope He's doing alright these days.😕... National treasure Old Guys keeping us wise in the old ways... Thanks for Doing All you do...✌👍
Yea, it seems like he’s only putting out a couple videos a year lately, he winter overs in Florida and he usually gets 2-3 videos out when he’s down there.
His shop in Florida is small (he gets part of the garage I think) but everything in there is immaculate, a small South Bend lathe and a good work bench. He needs a small vertical mill for it and he’d be set.
A couple years ago he built a governor for a machine from scratch, if I had any questions about steam engines and their parts I would get in touch with him. I’ve commented on his videos before and if I had a question he would usually reply, It seems he enjoys sharing his knowledge.
I think Pete at Just a Few Acres Farm is keeping him busy rebuilding tractor heads.
So awesome to see the precision and oldschool, but still totally valid, engineering on such a device.
Mr. Rucker is a master, and it shows. So satisfying to see this machine put back together right.
She's good for another few decades, as long as maintained properly.
I've never seen an edge finder bit before. Looks kinda handy
Excellent work. Who does not love turning brass?
Hello my friend. Great repair to that old school steam valve. You made it better than new witch takes us to our moto of making the piece better than new. A moto my grandad always had me perform on everything that came into the shop door. Make them like they were all yours. Words I will take to my last breath. Thanks for another great post and I will folow along behind you. Great stuff Keith.
Who knew this little steam engine governor job would bring out soo many internet trolls😮
Oh you beauty, I have just sat down to my morning coffee and had just wondered what shall I watch?
The piece that presses on the packing is called the "packing follower." Good video. I always enjoy.
Another excellent video Keith- being from the UK I've worked in metric so long I find it really hard to convert fractions and 'thou's in my head!
That works both ways!
Hey Keith, if you’re happy, I’m happy!
Good morning Keith! Thanks for the videos.
I wonder when the next Stoker Engine video will start.
Thank you for another Great video. Cheers
Thank you Keith!
Thank you for sharing.👍
Thanks Keith for interesting precise video. Your going through the thought process, why you changed the original engineering and the tapered pin joint, was particularly good for a fellow like me.
The fade to black for a few franes is really nice for the pace of the video. Always wanted to see inside one of these. Thanks Kieth.
Thanks for sharing another great video Keith!
Love watching people use a manual lathe. I was taught on old South Bend lathes, Bridgeport mills. Wish I still had access to those old machines.
I agree with the one-piece approach, and that it was made 2 piece as a cost saving measure. That much slop would cause problems with any controller, by laggng its setpoint then overshooting it. Small changes in valve opening results in big volume changes with high pressure steam!
Nice to now have that Ameribrade grinder in the shop. It's already showing how handy its going to be for just about any project. It is one sweet design.
That looks like it will work.
Gotta admit that newly turned metal is gorgeous.
Nicely done sir!
Keith. I am at 15:28 in your video as you are about to drill the hole for the cross pin in the valve stem. I think you about to make a serious error as the "Lock nut" is slotted, implying that the cross pin should allow vertical movement of the stem. You should have measured the distance from the base of the valve stem (large end) to the original hole and placed your new cross pin hole there. Not knowing the engineering that went into the assembly may mean that you are possibly making an error by assumption. I wish you could hear me yell "Stop!" before you drilled the hole. Oh weel, you can always make a new stem.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks for the video Keith. Have a good weekend!
There may have been too much play, but a loose connection of the rod to the valve is useful for the flat closure
I recall alot if comments on the last video advising to keep the existing design. Be interesting to find out if his modification still works the same when it's done. I'm not an expert but in my experience cost wasn't usually a key deciding factor in design of such equipment at the time which would lead me to believe it was like that for a functional purpose
Great job.
Will you be testing the operation with compressed air once you have it fully assembled again?
Great video Mr. Rucker!
Look's great Keith.
Oh, you turned the reamer counter ckockwise. 😮
It is a no-no.
I was thinking the same thing.
@@tsmartin Me too.
He should have said : “this is how not to ream a hole” 😅
Are you going to lap the valve seats?
I'll bet your shop is tool heaven. I thought I had a lot of tools. LOL
excellent video keith!
Happy Friday Keith from Massachusetts! 😊🚂👍👍👍👍✌️
How did I know you were going to use the new grinder?
Given the steam application and the various through holes for pins I would make this from 3/8" bronze and silver solder the bush on the bottom.
One tactical suggestion: put the 'sorry about the cable in the shot' at the very end of the shot. People might not notice it until the end of the shot, when you would say sorry. 😂
thanks
Question: Rather than "mess" around with a tapered pin, why not simply drill it out the original hole and use a more modern tension pin (roll pin).
If you have taper on a long thin turning, why not use a travelling steady, plus a sharp HSS tool to minimise tool pressure?
l seem to recall you saying never wind a reamer backwards as it will blunt them
Yes - was taught that too, back in the day when it was considered ok to reinforce the point with a clip round the ear when a trainee was seen to do it - ask me how I know!
When using tipped tool inserts on bronze you ei ALWAYS get a taper due to the inbuilt radius on the tops so why not go OLD SCHOOL and finish with tool steel tools and light cutting so there is load less force and a better finish too?
Nice exemple for “how not to ream a hole “
I'm not a machinist so please don't flame me too bad if this is a really stupid question:
When using the edge finding tool, isn't the actual edge at the very instant BEFORE the tip kicks out? Isn't the kick caused by just going past the edge? I mean a fraction of a tenth of a thousandth past the edge. Certainly good enough to consider it the edge, but "technically"...
I think that every time I see an edge finder used, maybe I'm stupid.
Probably, technically.. when centering on a feature these errors are mirrored and zeroed out, so it doesn't matter. If you really need it spot on using an indicator is the preferred method but in my experience edge finders are routinely within a thousandth of an inch.
doing a spring cut in summer
Why would you tighten everything if they have to repack the sleeve.
Saves parts from getting lost.
Keith. Love your stuff, especially the Tally Ho capstan project. ❤Just have a few queries though. Brass and steam. Not that great. Internal corners with a sharp edge. Not great. A fillet will help reduce the stress points and distribute the load. Solid brass piece? It most likely needs some movement as per the original design.
govenor - NO.
governor - YES!
Robert J Goddard spun his Gryo's with dental drill size air motors
Why not solder on a new, larger bush then machine to fit?
What is the advantage (if any) of using a tapered pin over a straight non-tapered pin?
Holds the parts much more tightly. Think drilling a hole in wood and pushing a nail in by hand?
Any word on the Stoker Engine?
22:25 Is it a bad idea to use anchor lube with a reamer?
Is this something you can test with compressed air to confirm that the fix was actually... the fix?
KR maybe make a backup stem out of the rest for them for when the first wares out???????????????????????
Nice
I was surprised to see you turn the reamer backwards, I thought that was a big no no.
You should not be surprised to see this guy do anything, just sit back and laugh!
WHen ever I watch someone machining brass,it always has some kind of squeal.
I was always taught to *never* turn a hand reamer anticlockwise. Is that not a thing?
I think I would have silver-soldered instead of pinning...
What is the rule with Brass vs Bronze in the steam world..?
no brass in contact with boiler water or steam only bronze ia allowed ( see my other post , the steam hot water causes the zinc in the brass to be leached out . therefore any boiler fitting must be made of bronze not brass inc any item in the steam path
@@stuarthardy4626 agreed dezincification of the brass valve stem under tension could lead to a failure, eventually.
@@Paul-FrancisBIt's already weakened by the two quite large through holes. The top one is loose, so wear will be accelerated.
I wondered if they originally pinned the larger part on to give some flexibility for misalignment caused by the threads?
I agree
He did not repair the part he reengineered it without knowing the true theory of design and function
🤔🤦♂️😂😅😂😂
Or the pinned part was a redesigned previous repair.
without having the original drawings there is no way to make any assumptions.
Governors do hate slop and play so the tighter the control rods are the better.
Looking at the design itself there is pretty much no misalignment posible that's can be caused by threads anyway.
... a half of a thousandth over an eighth of an inch ... love the Imperial system ... Metric is very straight forward but hasn't got the poetry
Brass or bronze? They are not interchangeable in this application! It will be bronze as brass breaks down in steam environments. Please don't turn a reamer backwards! Cheers, Matthew
dezincification is the cause of the crumbling ( brass copper/zinc bronze coper /tin + others inc aluminium and beryllium ). as a side note not team but brass in a chlorine environment will crumble , as it will when coke fired sand moulds dryers where in use
Looked like brass to me, perhaps you heard my remark to the screen about turning the reamer backwards... Perhaps we consider this a dry run?
The original was probably Navy G bronze alloy which is a lead free version that is particularly good for steam applications. Ordinary brass is OK for hobby use but not for this application. Considering it is not for a working machine and will only be used for occasional displays, it will probably be good enough.
Although it was brass or bronze (probably bronze) it’s still recommended to use a new or very sharp tap and a water soluble lubricant or water to tap it. I think the tap was run too deep. It looked like it drove slightly past the proper depth with no resistance. And stop turning the reamers backwards.
If you read the label and look at the raw stock you will see its bronze. Only a arm chair amateur machinist would get it wrong like yourself
I was taught to never never turn a taper reamer ccw when reaming a hole.
That applies to any reamer, not just a taper one.
😛😛😛😛😛😛😛❤❤❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I am just not a fan of changing the engineering fornthis governor. I think the stem is two piece to allow it to adjust. A mistake to change that design IMO.
🫂
brass inside a steam valve? repeatedly turning a reamer backwards?
Come on man, thousands of people are looking up to you and watching this.
Dragging your tool after a cut is not a good practice.