A pro level review for a pro level speaker. Yeah. Curious to see how you will rank all these speakers at the end. As you mentioned, it all depends on how we hear things and what's important in our individual listening experience. For me, life-like voices are by far the most important aspect, so ATC all the way.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Another thing that ATC does well is make so-so recordings listenable and enjoyable (within limits) despite the fact that their speakers are transparent, revealing, monitor like and very good at detail retrieval. It is uncommon. My current working hypothesis explaining this is that rather than doing something extra and special to get at the details, ATC does something extra and special to lower the distortions to a minimum, removing what’s not supposed to be there so that the details, the correct musical information reveal themselves naturally, without being artificially forced in. Could this be part of the "ATC sound"?
Not only are the ATC SCM1Is made in the UK making for ease of long term servicing but they are wood veneered in a choice of veneers which will please the Aesthetics Commission. The other two speakers are Chinese manufactured and in the case of the Buchardt are sold direct. All of the above explains a significant part of the cost differential.
I recently bought a pair of SCM11’s and couldn’t be happier. If something is recorded rubbish, it sounds rubbish. But if music is recorded in the right way, the stereo image and depth are so clear! And the bass is there as well, at least in my living room
@@morespinach9832 you really didn’t get my comment, did you? These ATC’s are superb and there’s a good reason why lots of serious studio’s use them as main monitors.
@@martijnverwoerd8439 I did - but I was wondering what would happen if I bought an expensive piece of kit (4000 bucks Canadian plus a decent amp, total around 8 to 9000 Canadian dollars) only to find a lot of songs that are poorly recorded not sound good. I’m not a studio. I’m a regular joe wanting good sound for music of all genres and even movies etc on Netflix.
I have the ATC SCM 11s too . My system is a Bryston B60 , BCD-1 and BDA-1 DAC . The amp is slightly underpowered for the speakers , but it's a desktop system and I'm not trying to raise the roof . The amp is ruthless and revealing , so crummy production is in no way enhanced . Yes , I tend to listen to the best-produced CDs over and over . Bass is all there in my opinion . Bass is such a subjective aspect anyway , and for music I prefer clarity and texture over straight-up thud . Subwoofers belong in home theatre systems in my opinion
Hi Terry, thank you for all your reviews and group comparisons. After years of contemplation, listening and comparing... My shortlist was incredibly similar to what you had in this 10-speaker round-up. My years living with Audio Notes, LS 3/5a's, and Harbeth P3s have directed me toward a sealed speaker design, a palpable vocal presentation and a non-fatiguing treble. Therefore, after a lot of rationalization, I settled on the SCM11s. ATC is the "Goldilocks" in speaker voicing for me, not too sharp and not too soft🤟🤟🤟
I can tell you what made them different. The first time I heard a pair of ATCs was the summer in the late eighties and I still have all the literature from back then. After hearing IRS V's, Apogee Scintillas, Duntech Sovereign's, in various rooms and equipment I come upon the ATC 100's active tri-amped in an ordinary room and the two people involved in their design ( one casually attired and the other more formally dressed, Billy Woodman? ). So what makes ATC special? It is the utter lack of compression in them. The sound had a dynamic range that seemed unlimited, going on forever. Until that moment, I realized just how effortless an audio system could sound and how everything else sounded, well lacking now that I've heard what truly dynamic range could sound like. It also takes a certain sharp edge off the sound that the Scintillas, IRS V's, and many other speakers could make at their limits, something that is sometimes attributed to the associated electronics. It took listening to the ATC speakers to know this. Thirty-three years later after accidentally blowing up my speakers, I auditioned the SCM-19 v2s and again heard that dynamic, effortless sound again but with a new depth perspective that was out of this world. They're ruler flat in frequency response for the most part and I might even consider a x-over parts upgrade kit from a third party who also found them to be about the best design to come through his doors. One last point; that three inch soft dome midrange they designed is the bomb. It really ties in a large woofer to the tweeter keeping polar responses nice and even. I used that with some Esotar tweeters (Dynaudio) that are rated to handle thousand watt peaks in my own design, until of course, I blew them up.
The “ physical weight” of the ATC 11 can be attributed to the massive magnet structure of the drivers, particularly, the bass-midrange. They are not the result of mass-produced drivers stuffed into a box and then tweaked with a crossover.
Good review Terry and looking forward to seeing the other speakers as time goes on. I get the feeling that you may prefer the ATC's combined with a REL sub, than the other two.
Really well balanced review Terry thanks. I like the pace, rhythm and timing reference, it's an indication that these speakers are engaging, which is essential.
I use the Pro SCM12 they have a little bit better rounded front face and tweeter is more accurate not as rolled off as soon. But similar sound. I have them nearfield 6" from the wall on iso acoustics stands and have a Rel TZero sub under my desk. My Amp is a 160 watt parasound A23+ and a pass labs HPA-1 headphone amp/preamp as the pre. They are all about midrange and highs and flat frequency response and require subs. ATC just has better Tweeter's than the other and uses decent crossover parts yes but it's mostly in the drivers that are bad ass.
Had lots of chats about lots of things but not them yet, so we will see but they will be bigger sounding ATC with a cracking mid range I already know I will like them, :)
@@shaundavidssd when a speaker designer designed a speaker he doesn't have subwoofera in mind at the time only poorly designed speakers need a sub buy the right size speaker for the right size room not a sub to destroy how a well engineered speaker can sound .
I have a pair of 19's and i am finding the same. They have surprised me with just how much bass they can create. Obviously that is dependent on what amplifier they are connected to. Mine are on the end of a 600w BRYSTON
Thanks for the review. I pretty much agree with your comments as I tried the SCM11v2 for myself. They excel at speed and resolution(which is not brightness) - tonal textures of notes are great. They have good air up top in just the right balance. Yes, they roll off fairly quickly down low, but what bass you do get is taught and clear. Once you concede the need of a subwoofer and properly integrated - pretty amazing balance from top to bottom. And they really do come alive when played at room filling volume. The coherency and body of the soundstage is very satisfying.
I'm really enjoying this series of speaker comparisons, you're covering speakers I'm actually thinking of buying in the future, I like how you are comparing speakers against each other but not in a negative way, more giving me the sound characteristics of each speaker and what each model does well helping me narrow down which I will audition in the future as I know the direction I would like to go in, thank you for all your hard work and excellent no nonsense reviews, I really enjoy your channel
Thank you very much for this wonderful review and very well explained in term of difference between speaker that you already reviewed. Like always, really appreciate every second of your review. Thanks a lot Cédric
The ATC being sealed do have "less bass output" but the bass is far more natural and tonally better than the others. Ports add bass but also add a thump while taking away texture to the bass.
Hi Ivor I don't think its fair to say all sealed speakers will give you better bass tonality - and you have to factor in less bass is easier to manage in a room therefore you have less obvious room problems - but not having the right amount of bass is also a problem in itself so its 6 and half dozen I think for sure
I have a cheap tube amp, Yaqin MC-13S, driving these ATC speakers and the pairing is quite good. Yes, the bass response isn’t earth shattering but not as lacking as the Class D Cambridge Audio 851W 200WPC and Rega Elicit 80 WPC that I have, at my disposal, to test the speakers with. Not as punchy or louder as the CA but, a fuller low end with the tube amp. The Rega sounds puny.
I run a pair of these from an old Denon PMA-520AE amp which is rated at 70W per channel. I have decent (not expensive) speaker cable and I have to say the sound is impressive. Classical, rock, hip-hop and pop all sound superb. I agree the bass could be a little better but in my listening room (20ft x 15ft) these pack a punch even from a 70W per channel amp. I listened to a pair of Focal Aria 906's tonight and they are ported and only have a little more bass and cost £750 but they are no where near in crispness and delivery. ATC make amazing sounding speakers.
I still reckon the Evo 2's will run most of those out of town. Looking forwards to an Elysian test....but Wharfedale sorely need a bridging model in the £1500 range...£600 to £4400 is a bit of a leap for most brand loyal upgraders
I would argue that the way ATC does bass is better than other speakers with more bass output. ATC starts rolling off bass slowly at a relatively high frequency. This GREATLY reduces the chance of bad room problems in the bass. You can place them where it's best for imaging, etc. and get a sub or subs and place them where it's best for deep bass. It's a good compromise.
Surely if your “needing” to add a sub the speakers are not doing the bass better, the sub satellite approach makes a lot of sense but that’s not what was being tested here
@@PursuitPerfectSystem You don't want your mains, regardless of size, to be flat to 30hz. It's better for them to roll off slowly so they don't excite room nodes as much. Even if they're large speakers with big woofers it's better to gradually drop in low frequency output below 80hz or so. Big woofers in a big box can still punch hard and add a lot to the experience without extending very low.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem In typical rooms there will be huge resonance peaks and valleys in the bass. Placement is very important to get even bass and the mains are very unlikely to be in the place that's best for bass. It's best for them to reduce the chances of terrible room problems by rolling off the bass. Then fill it in with subs that are placed optimally for bass response and maybe eq'd to fix what can't be fixed by placement.
@@Joe-mi4jw I have measured speakers in all sorts of rooms all over the world. it’s easier to get a better sound when the speakers contribute to the bass as much as the subwoofers because in typical rooms you can’t have neither the speakers or subs in the ideal spot. More bass is easier to manage than not enough which leads to a cold clinical shouty sound. Especially crucial in the 50-500hz range
I recently heard these, along with buchardt, and the atc really impressed me. I also heard the bmr and that was a really nice one and I'm not sure which one I liked more the atc or the bmr. I was kind of disappointed in the buchardt.
What are those guys between the Sonus Faber and the Amphions?? Looks like a Kralk audio but (as I think I've noted before) they've ceased trading. Great collection of goods. REALLY curious to hear your thoughts on the Neat's.....also curious if you'd ever get in a set of Kudos.
They are the Ophidian Mojo 2 - www.audiologica.co.uk/product/ophidian-mojo-2/ I know the guys at Kudos a little bit but the opportunity hasnt come up yet - it will do :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem right right. I looked them up again and I got the not u common "put off a big by the huge lines" syndrome. Hope this model is good. Looking forward to your thoughts.
OK...maybe I don't understand something? According to the curves, don't the LS50s show far less bass output at the lowest end than the other two speakers? I may not know how to interpret the graph? I would love to hear those Buchardts!
For extension yes, but that is mostly room gain and not what the speaker is doing or what you hear in 99% of music - the more important number is around 50hz where there the SCM11 output is the lowest
@@PursuitPerfectSystem yes but putting them closer to the wall would have increased that frequencys, plus you can adjust it with your dirac live why didn't you? Or a speaker management system might be a better choice!
@@PursuitPerfectSystem OK I see what you are saying...Subtle nuances in the curve. I picked up a pair of Dynaudio Contour 20s yesterday and am making mounting plates for them to fit my speaker stands 2day. Can't wait to hear what they sound like!
Its not that subtle really if you can see the numbers more easily which I appreciate is hard in the video - I am trying to quantify the real world difference you would hear with a bit of science at least
Such a well balanced speaker. Would love a set of these at some point based on what you’ve put together. Currently have a set of Quad S2’s and absolutely love them. Wondering where they would sit/how compare in this lineup posse.
I have some Z2 lined up to look at soon, I know they are a level up but it may help a little - now dealers are open again best to go and have a look if these sound intriguing
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Z2’s....excellent! Some saving for now, but would like to add to the system with one of those great speakers in your lineup. Thanks for the comprehensive reviews 🙏🏼
I totally get that, its a tough one because different countries have different prices - to be honest to keep it as simple as possible for me I go with the price in pounds which makes sense as I live in the UK.
Terry, Love this in-depth review of 3 speakers I am very interested in as replacements for my current kit. I have a small/medium room and I listen to medium to low/medium volume. I prefer tp manage my own bass with a Rel Sub ... Amps: Choice of a Doge-5 (tube) and a Hegel H-95. Both of these amps are NOT purchased yet - the Hegel may be up-graded to a better model. Now, as I stated; I listen to medium to low medium volume and I really want the ATCs to work. If anyone has any thoughts on this please feel free to comment. Big thanks Terry and I loved the graphs.
KEF R3 are definately better, more dynamic, deeper bass, more detail. ATC SCM11 are very good though, very close, ATC have a lovely colour and as stated fast pace, and a great sound. A very versatile speaker that can do dynamic well and you know ATC speakers can certainly handle power.
@@colinchang1543 Not necessary. KEF R3 give superior clarity, more detail, more dynamic, deeper bass and better imaging. ATC SCM 11 are good and get better with volume. SCM11 would always be a good purchase but for the above reasons R3 are better. I have a small room around 9 foot x 15 foot and difference is clear however this is at lower volumes. If using for loud rock music you may prefer SCM11. I previously had SVS Ultra Bookshelf which has a wonderful tweeter and bass but clearly V shaped natural response, again the R3 easily outclass these too. R3 have a better, more detailed mid/ high than KEF Q100s but with the benefit of a perfectly matched fast paced bass speaker. Other great thing about R3 is you can boost the treble without losing anything else, very forgiving speakers.
@@colinchang1543 Colin I am selling my KEF Q100s and noticed a measurable dip in (phone app) measured & repeatable response of the Q100s at 105Hz. The dip is not evident in the R3s at all, their response is completely flat in my room. So to recap R3 are a superb but fairly large bookshelf speaker, even for a small living room and at low volume. They are the best I owned so I probably won't change. I know reviewers of LS50 also quote R3 as less demanding of Amps and with better depth and quality. There is a good sound review I'll see if I can locate but you will need good headphones.
@@colinchang1543 R3 are 3 way and Evoke 2 way. I'll have a listen to Evoke and try and give honest opinion. Best comparison benchmark for me would be versus SCM11
Buchardt S300 MkIIs sound to me more musical due to better bass and more forgiving of the type of recording. For long hours of listening I prefer them. However, the others are more precise and forward so many might love their details. Finally beyond the basics, speaker review becomes subjective in any price band! Nice review as ever! Please try & review S400 too & compare them in its price band!
Interesting review :) I found them to be a super impressive speaker, and a bargain, just not for me. The other surprise was the strength of the bass, but that was in a small 4x4 room. I just found them too forward and analytical for my taste. I also tried the Buchardt S400 which I liked but found a bit too reserved. I ended up with the Totem Signature one which I'm still pleased with 2 years later in my small room.
@@angi733 How is the behaviour of the mid-bass area of the Totems in your room? And, they are less analytical on the tweeter area than the SCM11? I have a 4,5x4,5 room.
I look forward to the sound demo Terry.. I love the SCM 50 you reviewed last year, but from your comments it sounds like the KEF's are still on top. Thanks mate.
Build Quality?? I'm not too sure. Had a pair of Wharfedale Reva 2 in Gloss Rosewood. They were gorgeous. The terminals were a sensible design. They angled outward and that helped make sure that the cables don't touch each other. Drivers had no visible screws. The shorting links were substantial. I saw nothing wrong. They were a pair of comfortable speakers to listen to. Nice sounding. Now I have the ATC SCM19V2. Sound quality......so far....let's just say I'm still running them in. Build Quality? Outwardly the wharfedales were far better. Looks could be deceptive. Maybe the ATCs are better on the inside. Real wood veneer shows warts and all. The diver cutout on the baffle shows the unfinished part of the baffle.The shorting links are embarrassingly substandard. The sticker at the terminal block was already coming unstuck. Speaker were bought brand new. Comments please.Thanks
What happened to your KEF reference speakers? Haven't seen them in your videos for a while. They were very expensive speakers. Were they perfect and if not why not?
I wanted a new camera and the KEF were sitting at the back of the room not being used most of the time and they weigh 50kg each which makes them hard work to move in and out for other reviews
I have just purchased a pair of SCM19's. I thought they would be lacking in the kind of bass that i like. I have been taken by surprise, they can produce some pretty dam good bass. I do have them connected to a BRYSTON 14B3 amplifier though which is 600w per channel. ATC say there speakers need a decent amount of power, my amplifier sure gives them what they crave. Just don't peak inside, rather disappointing for what would be expected of ATC!!!
I wish the ATC had nicer binding posts and got rid of that molded plastic backplate. It's just junk..Also if they upgraded the internal wiring a bit they would be even better as well...alas you can't have it all.
I agree, I found them binding posts to be very fiddly as they are recessed into the back of the speaker - I cut that bit out of the review as I thought it was just me moaning and I thought once they are wired up then is usually a once or once every now and then job so not the end of the world
You have obviously peaked inside, just as i have. The internal wiring is shocking, thin as bell wire. And i agree about the binding posts and back plate, cheap nasty rubbish. These speakers could be considerably better. I would seriously upgrade them
@@markholder6851 The problem is the stuff they get away with with "Pro Gear" shouldn't be something they are allowed to get away with but alas pro guy's don't speak up
Sorry I don't have anything like that planned at the minute, these things do need planning but maybe at some point I could but it often depends on what gets offered and its always too exciting for me to say no :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem hehe :-) would be great to see something like that, youve an very friendly & solid based kind of way to present hifi products in your videos. There are not many comparison videos out there about hifi vs studio. Both categorys have exciting great sounding products And its hard for me to find Content that i'm realy interested in, because i chose Active Studio Gear for my Hifi setup in the living room (since 3 years)
Similar question for me. Would love a comparison of scm11 with active studio monitors - preferably HEDD 07 and Bass 8 sub with the ATCs plus rel t7 and maybe Rega amp. Similar price, both cross over studio and hifi usage…
@@paulhodgson8894 i think you cant go wrong with any bigger manufactures like Hedd, Focal, Genelec ... my decision fell on the Neumann KH310 and love the speakers since i purchase them. But i'm interested in ATC and also Amphion recently. There are not realy big steps in sound quality you can make because (for me) the Neumanns translate very well - and you get way better improvement to the sound with room acoustic treatment than purchase a 5000€ speaker instead of a 3800€... Also its pretty expensive to discover new Monitors because you must buy them and test them out
As much as you can throw at it(!) Seriously, there's a lot of arguments over ATC and power, with some claiming a minimum of 80w, with 120w to "wake them up" and others saying a 50w Naim Nait 5i has them rockin' a plenty. I have a pair on the end of an 80w Naim Supernait and don't really see the need to crank the volume any more than the B&W 805's I have for comparison.
Well done on this review. The ATC is an excellent speaker for sure. However, in the price range you're reviewing, my favourite is definitely the Acoustic Energy AE500. Disclosure: I'm a Canadian dealer for Acoustic Energy, so you can take my opinion for what it is, but I just love these AE500. The performance and value is outstanding.
@@hyfydemo2660 I've heard it on 40w tube and it sounds compress dynamically. sure, you can hear some bass and the mid range is good, but dynamically, they can't handle swings and soundstage collapse
I had the exact combination. Sugden S21Se Signiture with 11v2. then I upgraded to 19v2. nevermind the nay- sayers to Class A amp. almost all say ATC needs more power than Sugden. they live in spec world not in the real world. Sugden A21se Signiture is powerful enough to drive bigger SCM19v2. many people who listened my system, they agree that ATC may not be good enough for Sugden.
rather than from the cabinet like with a wilson speaker - have you ever held a wilson speaker? Have you had these speakers in your hands for that matter?
This comment has really annoyed me to be honest - do the test yourself pick up an LS50 Meta and feel how the weight is distributed it feels evenly distributed across the whole speaker like half the weight is the cabinet and half the drivers and bits inside. The SCM11 doesn't feel like that it feels like the majority of the weight is inside the cabinet.
Your wrong on price of ATC is 2900 dollars not 2000 dollars That is double what you are saying in pounds The LS50 are $1500 pair The smaller ATC smaller are $2000 dollars
@@Bill-qs1wx In the UK the current price of the ATC SCM11 is £1450 and the Kef LS50 Meta is £1000. They're British companies. We get them for less than you will in the same way American brands typically cost us more.
@@harrycallahan712 Gotcha , thanks. The t KEF R3 are now $ 2200.00 , Meta $1600. Went up. Metas are good , but flattened out and heard a buzzing in one . The bass is not accurate to me. ( ported). The Kef 3 are more refined than Meta . I almost chose until I listened to a broken in pair of ATC 11. Another step up for me and others judging . Not really in the same league But to each their own. The ATC 7 closer to Meta Great review my friends over the pond.
A pro level review for a pro level speaker. Yeah. Curious to see how you will rank all these speakers at the end. As you mentioned, it all depends on how we hear things and what's important in our individual listening experience. For me, life-like voices are by far the most important aspect, so ATC all the way.
Thank you :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Another thing that ATC does well is make so-so recordings listenable and enjoyable (within limits) despite the fact that their speakers are transparent, revealing, monitor like and very good at detail retrieval. It is uncommon. My current working hypothesis explaining this is that rather than doing something extra and special to get at the details, ATC does something extra and special to lower the distortions to a minimum, removing what’s not supposed to be there so that the details, the correct musical information reveal themselves naturally, without being artificially forced in. Could this be part of the "ATC sound"?
Not only are the ATC SCM1Is made in the UK making for ease of long term servicing but they are wood veneered in a choice of veneers which will please the Aesthetics Commission. The other two speakers are Chinese manufactured and in the case of the Buchardt are sold direct. All of the above explains a significant part of the cost differential.
Buy British, much better product
ATC is my choice, and wish ATC expanded their lineup. recently got a hold of sealed MTM design with 5" woofers and think its great so far.
I recently bought a pair of SCM11’s and couldn’t be happier. If something is recorded rubbish, it sounds rubbish. But if music is recorded in the right way, the stereo image and depth are so clear! And the bass is there as well, at least in my living room
That makes it a slighly mediocre home listening speaker because many, many songs are recorded poorly.
@@morespinach9832 you really didn’t get my comment, did you? These ATC’s are superb and there’s a good reason why lots of serious studio’s use them as main monitors.
@@martijnverwoerd8439 I did - but I was wondering what would happen if I bought an expensive piece of kit (4000 bucks Canadian plus a decent amp, total around 8 to 9000 Canadian dollars) only to find a lot of songs that are poorly recorded not sound good. I’m not a studio. I’m a regular joe wanting good sound for music of all genres and even movies etc on Netflix.
@@martijnverwoerd8439 btw to add - dis you need subwoofers with the 11s?
I have the ATC SCM 11s too . My system is a Bryston B60 , BCD-1 and BDA-1 DAC . The amp is slightly underpowered for the speakers , but it's a desktop system and I'm not trying to raise the roof . The amp is ruthless and revealing , so crummy production is in no way enhanced . Yes , I tend to listen to the best-produced CDs over and over . Bass is all there in my opinion . Bass is such a subjective aspect anyway , and for music I prefer clarity and texture over straight-up thud . Subwoofers belong in home theatre systems in my opinion
Before buying any speaker check where it’s made, how its made....ATC are a special company
Hi Terry, thank you for all your reviews and group comparisons. After years of contemplation, listening and comparing... My shortlist was incredibly similar to what you had in this 10-speaker round-up. My years living with Audio Notes, LS 3/5a's, and Harbeth P3s have directed me toward a sealed speaker design, a palpable vocal presentation and a non-fatiguing treble. Therefore, after a lot of rationalization, I settled on the SCM11s. ATC is the "Goldilocks" in speaker voicing for me, not too sharp and not too soft🤟🤟🤟
As would Dynaudio be for all of those descriptions. And more cost effective than ATC. Evoke 20 would trump SCM 11s.
@@morespinach9832 please have a look at the mid-bass driver on the ATC and, compare it with your evoke 20s🙏😅
ATC are great value imo. It's a true pedigree brand, made in UK. Great badge appeal, great performance
I can tell you what made them different. The first time I heard a pair of ATCs was the summer in the late eighties and I still have all the literature from back then. After hearing IRS V's, Apogee Scintillas, Duntech Sovereign's, in various rooms and equipment I come upon the ATC 100's active tri-amped in an ordinary room and the two people involved in their design ( one casually attired and the other more formally dressed, Billy Woodman? ). So what makes ATC special? It is the utter lack of compression in them. The sound had a dynamic range that seemed unlimited, going on forever. Until that moment, I realized just how effortless an audio system could sound and how everything else sounded, well lacking now that I've heard what truly dynamic range could sound like. It also takes a certain sharp edge off the sound that the Scintillas, IRS V's, and many other speakers could make at their limits, something that is sometimes attributed to the associated electronics. It took listening to the ATC speakers to know this. Thirty-three years later after accidentally blowing up my speakers, I auditioned the SCM-19 v2s and again heard that dynamic, effortless sound again but with a new depth perspective that was out of this world. They're ruler flat in frequency response for the most part and I might even consider a x-over parts upgrade kit from a third party who also found them to be about the best design to come through his doors.
One last point; that three inch soft dome midrange they designed is the bomb. It really ties in a large woofer to the tweeter keeping polar responses nice and even. I used that with some Esotar tweeters (Dynaudio) that are rated to handle thousand watt peaks in my own design, until of course, I blew them up.
Another entertaining and outstanding review /comparison 👍🏻
The “ physical weight” of the ATC 11 can be attributed to the massive magnet structure of the drivers, particularly, the bass-midrange. They are not the result of mass-produced drivers stuffed into a box and then tweaked with a crossover.
Good review Terry and looking forward to seeing the other speakers as time goes on. I get the feeling that you may prefer the ATC's combined with a REL sub, than the other two.
With this setup I have here amp wise yes probably I would :)
ATC and twin Rel omg
Really well balanced review Terry thanks. I like the pace, rhythm and timing reference, it's an indication that these speakers are engaging, which is essential.
I use the Pro SCM12 they have a little bit better rounded front face and tweeter is more accurate not as rolled off as soon. But similar sound. I have them nearfield 6" from the wall on iso acoustics stands and have a Rel TZero sub under my desk. My Amp is a 160 watt parasound A23+ and a pass labs HPA-1 headphone amp/preamp as the pre. They are all about midrange and highs and flat frequency response and require subs. ATC just has better Tweeter's than the other and uses decent crossover parts yes but it's mostly in the drivers that are bad ass.
Nice one Terry. After this group test is over how about a review of some Scm40a ATC actives 👍
Had lots of chats about lots of things but not them yet, so we will see but they will be bigger sounding ATC with a cracking mid range I already know I will like them, :)
Had the Atc for 5 years now in the right size room they sound fab no sub needed
Every bookshelf needs a sub ,sorry
Subs do more than low end
They open up the mids and highs
@@shaundavidssd when a speaker designer designed a speaker he doesn't have subwoofera in mind at the time only poorly designed speakers need a sub buy the right size speaker for the right size room not a sub to destroy how a well engineered speaker can sound .
I have a pair of 19's and i am finding the same. They have surprised me with just how much bass they can create. Obviously that is dependent on what amplifier they are connected to. Mine are on the end of a 600w BRYSTON
@@markholder6851 plenty of power and quality there that's what's its all about not boom boxes stuck in the room .
@@justinparkman3585 i totally agree with you
Thanks for the review. I pretty much agree with your comments as I tried the SCM11v2 for myself. They excel at speed and resolution(which is not brightness) - tonal textures of notes are great. They have good air up top in just the right balance. Yes, they roll off fairly quickly down low, but what bass you do get is taught and clear.
Once you concede the need of a subwoofer and properly integrated - pretty amazing balance from top to bottom. And they really do come alive when played at room filling volume. The coherency and body of the soundstage is very satisfying.
Thanks Erik
what sub do u use.with it?
Kudos for measuring and the discussing response curves.
Super review and comparison. The response graphs are quite clear on a smartphone screen. Glad you have included them.
Very good review. I would be interested to hear your view on how the SCM11s compare to the similarly priced KEF R3s?
That would be interesting indeed! The R3 is a well known reference for comparison purposes!
I'm really enjoying this series of speaker comparisons, you're covering speakers I'm actually thinking of buying in the future, I like how you are comparing speakers against each other but not in a negative way, more giving me the sound characteristics of each speaker and what each model does well helping me narrow down which I will audition in the future as I know the direction I would like to go in, thank you for all your hard work and excellent no nonsense reviews, I really enjoy your channel
Thank you very much for this wonderful review and very well explained in term of difference between speaker that you already reviewed.
Like always, really appreciate every second of your review.
Thanks a lot
Cédric
The ATC being sealed do have "less bass output" but the bass is far more natural and tonally better than the others. Ports add bass but also add a thump while taking away texture to the bass.
Hi Ivor I don't think its fair to say all sealed speakers will give you better bass tonality - and you have to factor in less bass is easier to manage in a room therefore you have less obvious room problems - but not having the right amount of bass is also a problem in itself so its 6 and half dozen I think for sure
Solid proffesional review, and entertaining as well, thanks!
Thanks Kevin :)
I have owned a pair of SCM11's for 8 years, and one thing that astounds me is that no matter how loud I have them, the woofer barely moves!
Use it with vinyl, you will see the woofer jumping like crazy
Not even a comparison. ATC is a true musician's speaker. LS50 looks pretty and has the hype train for the minions.
I have a cheap tube amp, Yaqin MC-13S, driving these ATC speakers and the pairing is quite good. Yes, the bass response isn’t earth shattering but not as lacking as the Class D Cambridge Audio 851W 200WPC and Rega Elicit 80 WPC that I have, at my disposal, to test the speakers with. Not as punchy or louder as the CA but, a fuller low end with the tube amp. The Rega sounds puny.
Great review! Still waiting for the Neat acoustics reviews... 🤤
I know :)
I run a pair of these from an old Denon PMA-520AE amp which is rated at 70W per channel. I have decent (not expensive) speaker cable and I have to say the sound is impressive. Classical, rock, hip-hop and pop all sound superb. I agree the bass could be a little better but in my listening room (20ft x 15ft) these pack a punch even from a 70W per channel amp. I listened to a pair of Focal Aria 906's tonight and they are ported and only have a little more bass and cost £750 but they are no where near in crispness and delivery. ATC make amazing sounding speakers.
I still reckon the Evo 2's will run most of those out of town.
Looking forwards to an Elysian test....but Wharfedale sorely need a bridging model in the £1500 range...£600 to £4400 is a bit of a leap for most brand loyal upgraders
Haha. Those weirdo looking speakers?
I love the beefy look of their drivers.
Ha noone has mentioned my Snoop Dog joke yet, cant believe that :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem t
THAT was FUNNY!!! 😂😂
I love the bass on non ported speakers, am I alone on this?
I have a jones for small acoustic suspension bookshelves, especially when they're as well made as the ATC's....
"more doping than Snoop Dog". Didn't see that one coming!
Haha I am glad someone got the joke
I love these reviews 👍
What are best power amps best suited for SCM11 under £2000 ? Thanks.
Excellent review. Do you think they would work well as a bookshelf speaker close to a rear wall?
Yes I do, well worth trying for sure
ATC are the pure engineers of sound in music
I would argue that the way ATC does bass is better than other speakers with more bass output. ATC starts rolling off bass slowly at a relatively high frequency. This GREATLY reduces the chance of bad room problems in the bass. You can place them where it's best for imaging, etc. and get a sub or subs and place them where it's best for deep bass. It's a good compromise.
Surely if your “needing” to add a sub the speakers are not doing the bass better, the sub satellite approach makes a lot of sense but that’s not what was being tested here
@@PursuitPerfectSystem You don't want your mains, regardless of size, to be flat to 30hz. It's better for them to roll off slowly so they don't excite room nodes as much. Even if they're large speakers with big woofers it's better to gradually drop in low frequency output below 80hz or so. Big woofers in a big box can still punch hard and add a lot to the experience without extending very low.
@@Joe-mi4jw look at the science of human hearing and then say you want bass rolling off ever
@@PursuitPerfectSystem In typical rooms there will be huge resonance peaks and valleys in the bass. Placement is very important to get even bass and the mains are very unlikely to be in the place that's best for bass. It's best for them to reduce the chances of terrible room problems by rolling off the bass. Then fill it in with subs that are placed optimally for bass response and maybe eq'd to fix what can't be fixed by placement.
@@Joe-mi4jw I have measured speakers in all sorts of rooms all over the world. it’s easier to get a better sound when the speakers contribute to the bass as much as the subwoofers because in typical rooms you can’t have neither the speakers or subs in the ideal spot. More bass is easier to manage than not enough which leads to a cold clinical shouty sound. Especially crucial in the 50-500hz range
I recently heard these, along with buchardt, and the atc really impressed me. I also heard the bmr and that was a really nice one and I'm not sure which one I liked more the atc or the bmr. I was kind of disappointed in the buchardt.
Would love to see you review the SCM7’s!
ATC SCM7 are magic as well
What are those guys between the Sonus Faber and the Amphions?? Looks like a Kralk audio but (as I think I've noted before) they've ceased trading.
Great collection of goods. REALLY curious to hear your thoughts on the Neat's.....also curious if you'd ever get in a set of Kudos.
They are the Ophidian Mojo 2 - www.audiologica.co.uk/product/ophidian-mojo-2/
I know the guys at Kudos a little bit but the opportunity hasnt come up yet - it will do :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem right right. I looked them up again and I got the not u common "put off a big by the huge lines" syndrome. Hope this model is good. Looking forward to your thoughts.
OK...maybe I don't understand something? According to the curves, don't the LS50s show far less bass output at the lowest end than the other two speakers? I may not know how to interpret the graph? I would love to hear those Buchardts!
For extension yes, but that is mostly room gain and not what the speaker is doing or what you hear in 99% of music - the more important number is around 50hz where there the SCM11 output is the lowest
@@PursuitPerfectSystem yes but putting them closer to the wall would have increased that frequencys, plus you can adjust it with your dirac live why didn't you?
Or a speaker management system might be a better choice!
@@PursuitPerfectSystem OK I see what you are saying...Subtle nuances in the curve.
I picked up a pair of Dynaudio Contour 20s yesterday and am making mounting plates for them to fit my speaker stands 2day. Can't wait to hear what they sound like!
of course I did John - these are measurements before as they are more meaningful as to how the speaker behaves
Its not that subtle really if you can see the numbers more easily which I appreciate is hard in the video - I am trying to quantify the real world difference you would hear with a bit of science at least
Such a well balanced speaker. Would love a set of these at some point based on what you’ve put together. Currently have a set of Quad S2’s and absolutely love them. Wondering where they would sit/how compare in this lineup posse.
I have some Z2 lined up to look at soon, I know they are a level up but it may help a little - now dealers are open again best to go and have a look if these sound intriguing
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Z2’s....excellent! Some saving for now, but would like to add to the system with one of those great speakers in your lineup. Thanks for the comprehensive reviews 🙏🏼
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Wonderful news, I have the Z2 (had the S2 as well) and really wanna know how you would rate them vs this sort of competition.
U should have reviewed the 7. The 11 is 600 dollars more here in the States putting it more inline with the Buchart S400.
I totally get that, its a tough one because different countries have different prices - to be honest to keep it as simple as possible for me I go with the price in pounds which makes sense as I live in the UK.
I saw the price for 11 is $2899 in US now, which is crazy. Where did you find the 11 that is $600 more than 7?
what is the difference between ATC 11 v1 and version v2..they also look different ???
Terry, Love this in-depth review of 3 speakers I am very interested in as replacements for my
current kit. I have a small/medium room and I listen to medium to low/medium volume. I prefer
tp manage my own bass with a Rel Sub ... Amps: Choice of a Doge-5 (tube) and a Hegel H-95.
Both of these amps are NOT purchased yet - the Hegel may be up-graded to a better model.
Now, as I stated; I listen to medium to low medium volume and I really want the ATCs to work.
If anyone has any thoughts on this please feel free to comment. Big thanks Terry and I loved the graphs.
Sorry Charles I dont really know what your asking here?
KEF R3 are definately better, more dynamic, deeper bass, more detail. ATC SCM11 are very good though, very close, ATC have a lovely colour and as stated fast pace, and a great sound. A very versatile speaker that can do dynamic well and you know ATC speakers can certainly handle power.
Were you able to A/B them at the same time?
@@colinchang1543 Not necessary. KEF R3 give superior clarity, more detail, more dynamic, deeper bass and better imaging. ATC SCM 11 are good and get better with volume. SCM11 would always be a good purchase but for the above reasons R3 are better. I have a small room around 9 foot x 15 foot and difference is clear however this is at lower volumes. If using for loud rock music you may prefer SCM11. I previously had SVS Ultra Bookshelf which has a wonderful tweeter and bass but clearly V shaped natural response, again the R3 easily outclass these too. R3 have a better, more detailed mid/ high than KEF Q100s but with the benefit of a perfectly matched fast paced bass speaker. Other great thing about R3 is you can boost the treble without losing anything else, very forgiving speakers.
@@mjames978 Glad to hear. I've been eyeing the KEFs for a while now, along with Evoke 20's
@@colinchang1543 Colin I am selling my KEF Q100s and noticed a measurable dip in (phone app) measured & repeatable response of the Q100s at 105Hz. The dip is not evident in the R3s at all, their response is completely flat in my room. So to recap R3 are a superb but fairly large bookshelf speaker, even for a small living room and at low volume. They are the best I owned so I probably won't change. I know reviewers of LS50 also quote R3 as less demanding of Amps and with better depth and quality. There is a good sound review I'll see if I can locate but you will need good headphones.
@@colinchang1543 R3 are 3 way and Evoke 2 way. I'll have a listen to Evoke and try and give honest opinion. Best comparison benchmark for me would be versus SCM11
When can we expect a review for those gorgeous Acoustic Energy AE500's?
Soon :)
I’d love you to compare some of these with floorstanders for the same money
Would a E.A.R PL509 valve amplifier be a good partner for ATC SCM11, with it low damping factor would improve bass A.T.C or Kef LS50
I own a pair. My final thoughts…Thank you ATC. Best investment I ever made and so proud to own UK manufactured Gems
Do you need a sub with the ATC?
Buchardt S300 MkIIs sound to me more musical due to better bass and more forgiving of the type of recording. For long hours of listening I prefer them. However, the others are more precise and forward so many might love their details. Finally beyond the basics, speaker review becomes subjective in any price band! Nice review as ever! Please try & review S400 too & compare them in its price band!
You have a Beats type of ear then. Buchardts are pretty far from refined.
hello, your job is very apreciated
Great review.
Thank you
Hi Terry do you think a Hegel H120 would have enough power for these ATC speakers?
is atc mate well with simaudio moon ?
do they sound nice at lower volume ??
Interesting review :) I found them to be a super impressive speaker, and a bargain, just not for me. The other surprise was the strength of the bass, but that was in a small 4x4 room. I just found them too forward and analytical for my taste. I also tried the Buchardt S400 which I liked but found a bit too reserved. I ended up with the Totem Signature one which I'm still pleased with 2 years later in my small room.
Do you still are in the 4x4 room with the Totems?
@@RiseFall123 Yes, they can work well very close to a wall.
@@angi733 How is the behaviour of the mid-bass area of the Totems in your room? And, they are less analytical on the tweeter area than the SCM11? I have a 4,5x4,5 room.
I look forward to the sound demo Terry.. I love the SCM 50 you reviewed last year, but from your comments it sounds like the KEF's are still on top. Thanks mate.
Build Quality?? I'm not too sure.
Had a pair of Wharfedale Reva 2 in Gloss Rosewood. They were gorgeous. The terminals were a sensible design. They angled outward and that helped make sure that the cables don't touch each other. Drivers had no visible screws. The shorting links were substantial. I saw nothing wrong. They were a pair of comfortable speakers to listen to. Nice sounding.
Now I have the ATC SCM19V2. Sound quality......so far....let's just say I'm still running them in.
Build Quality? Outwardly the wharfedales were far better.
Looks could be deceptive. Maybe the ATCs are better on the inside. Real wood veneer shows warts and all. The diver cutout on the baffle shows the unfinished part of the baffle.The shorting links are embarrassingly substandard. The sticker at the terminal block was already coming unstuck. Speaker were bought brand new. Comments please.Thanks
What happened to your KEF reference speakers? Haven't seen them in your videos for a while. They were very expensive speakers. Were they perfect and if not why not?
They have new owners and I have a new camera for a better video experience for you :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem what more did you want from the KEF? They were full range flat as a pancake. What more could you possibly have?
I wanted a new camera and the KEF were sitting at the back of the room not being used most of the time and they weigh 50kg each which makes them hard work to move in and out for other reviews
@@PursuitPerfectSystem so what speakers do you use currently?
@@ProfessorJohnSmith all the ones in this group test at the minute
ATC SCM11 have gone up to £1450.00 so maybe they priced themselves out of the above comparisons...?
Oh wow I didnt know that, it must have only just happened
I have just purchased a pair of SCM19's. I thought they would be lacking in the kind of bass that i like. I have been taken by surprise, they can produce some pretty dam good bass. I do have them connected to a BRYSTON 14B3 amplifier though which is 600w per channel. ATC say there speakers need a decent amount of power, my amplifier sure gives them what they crave.
Just don't peak inside, rather disappointing for what would be expected of ATC!!!
What’s wrong inside of the ATC speakers?
@@PS987654321PS
Cheap cables
I wish the ATC had nicer binding posts and got rid of that molded plastic backplate. It's just junk..Also if they upgraded the internal wiring a bit they would be even better as well...alas you can't have it all.
I agree, I found them binding posts to be very fiddly as they are recessed into the back of the speaker - I cut that bit out of the review as I thought it was just me moaning and I thought once they are wired up then is usually a once or once every now and then job so not the end of the world
You have obviously peaked inside, just as i have. The internal wiring is shocking, thin as bell wire. And i agree about the binding posts and back plate, cheap nasty rubbish. These speakers could be considerably better. I would seriously upgrade them
@@markholder6851 The problem is the stuff they get away with with "Pro Gear" shouldn't be something they are allowed to get away with but alas pro guy's don't speak up
Any chance to see a comparison between these brands: Neumann vs ATC vs Amphion - Studio Speaker (maybe as active vs passive video)
Sorry I don't have anything like that planned at the minute, these things do need planning but maybe at some point I could but it often depends on what gets offered and its always too exciting for me to say no :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem hehe :-) would be great to see something like that, youve an very friendly & solid based kind of way to present hifi products in your videos. There are not many comparison videos out there about hifi vs studio. Both categorys have exciting great sounding products
And its hard for me to find Content that i'm realy interested in, because i chose Active Studio Gear for my Hifi setup in the living room (since 3 years)
Similar question for me. Would love a comparison of scm11 with active studio monitors - preferably HEDD 07 and Bass 8 sub with the ATCs plus rel t7 and maybe Rega amp. Similar price, both cross over studio and hifi usage…
@@paulhodgson8894 i think you cant go wrong with any bigger manufactures like Hedd, Focal, Genelec ... my decision fell on the Neumann KH310 and love the speakers since i purchase them. But i'm interested in ATC and also Amphion recently. There are not realy big steps in sound quality you can make because (for me) the Neumanns translate very well - and you get way better improvement to the sound with room acoustic treatment than purchase a 5000€ speaker instead of a 3800€... Also its pretty expensive to discover new Monitors because you must buy them and test them out
this one is nices :), however I want bass too, maybee it is good they do not have any so you add the good sub an you get better overall performance
hello after how many hours of listening do a pair of new Scm11 start to express themselves at their best?
Best to ask ATC directly with a question like that
@@PursuitPerfectSystem perfect thanks
I bet when you are telling a story to your friends they are like" get on with it man! I have things to do"
audiophiles don't have friends especially rude ones
How much amplification power would you recommended for ATC SCM11?
As much as you can throw at it(!)
Seriously, there's a lot of arguments over ATC and power, with some claiming a minimum of 80w, with 120w to "wake them up" and others saying a 50w Naim Nait 5i has them rockin' a plenty.
I have a pair on the end of an 80w Naim Supernait and don't really see the need to crank the volume any more than the B&W 805's I have for comparison.
@@pauln6803and which do you prefer 805s or scm 11 ?
Well done on this review. The ATC is an excellent speaker for sure. However, in the price range you're reviewing, my favourite is definitely the Acoustic Energy AE500. Disclosure: I'm a Canadian dealer for Acoustic Energy, so you can take my opinion for what it is, but I just love these AE500. The performance and value is outstanding.
Yeah I am looking forward to listening to the AE500
What brand are the dispersion panels: thx?
GIK Acoustics
I feel like the ATC speakers would have a lot of synergy with a class 'A' amp the the Sugden A21Se. Love to hear your thoughts on that.
No. ATC needs watts. at least 100w into 8ohm. That's what ATC's boss says. Don't use it with low wattage amp
They sound really good with tube amps, that lack of bass isn’t that prominent with the tube amps.
@@hyfydemo2660 I've heard it on 40w tube and it sounds compress dynamically. sure, you can hear some bass and the mid range is good, but dynamically, they can't handle swings and soundstage collapse
I had the exact combination. Sugden S21Se Signiture with 11v2. then I upgraded to 19v2. nevermind the nay- sayers to Class A amp. almost all say ATC needs more power than Sugden. they live in spec world not in the real world. Sugden A21se Signiture is powerful enough to drive bigger SCM19v2. many people who listened my system, they agree that ATC may not be good enough for Sugden.
@@nnaaeee have you ever tried that combination? Those spec numbers don't apply to Class A. Sugden.
What subwoofers are people pairing with the SCM11 & SCM19 models, for music ?
Rel
I want buy scm40 active ,any review coming ?
Just do it man :)
Would the Audiolab 6000a be enough to drive these? I would imagine not.
500euro AMP for These Speakers?
No it will struggle
Name of the intro song?
strivers row Jones Medaow but its a remix of sorts
Everything is better than Kef
Idiotic comment.
When you pick them up the weight feels like it is coming from inside. Oh please
rather than from the cabinet like with a wilson speaker - have you ever held a wilson speaker?
Have you had these speakers in your hands for that matter?
This comment has really annoyed me to be honest - do the test yourself pick up an LS50 Meta and feel how the weight is distributed it feels evenly distributed across the whole speaker like half the weight is the cabinet and half the drivers and bits inside.
The SCM11 doesn't feel like that it feels like the majority of the weight is inside the cabinet.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Yes, I believe some of the drive units are 10KG alone even in the smaller models
35% better
Is someone at ATC color blind? Who thought diarrhea yellow would be a great color?
Its oak colour lee
It's his camera setting and not the speakers. I have these speakers in cherry finish and they are not yellow at all.
Your wrong on price of ATC is 2900 dollars not 2000 dollars That is double what you are saying in pounds The LS50 are $1500 pair The smaller ATC smaller are $2000 dollars
To be fair I didn't quote any prices in dollars only pounds
@@PursuitPerfectSystem That’s correct , I did 1300 lbs equals $1500.00 doolars The ATC 11 are $ 2900 .00 or approximately 2590 pounds
@@Bill-qs1wx In the UK the current price of the ATC SCM11 is £1450 and the Kef LS50 Meta is £1000. They're British companies. We get them for less than you will in the same way American brands typically cost us more.
@@harrycallahan712 Gotcha , thanks. The t KEF R3 are now $ 2200.00 , Meta $1600. Went up. Metas are good , but flattened out and heard a buzzing in one . The bass is not accurate to me. ( ported). The Kef 3 are more refined than Meta . I almost chose until I listened to a broken in pair of ATC 11. Another step up for me and others judging . Not really in the same league But to each their own.
The ATC 7 closer to Meta
Great review my friends over the pond.
LS50 metas are ugly as hell.