It seems that most players want to reduce Ulfric to either a selfish and ruthless villain out only for his own gain, or a pure hero. I think the truth is that he's just a person who believes in himself and his cause, but also has flaws. He's a well done character and I wish that Skyrim, the game, did more with him.
@Merica that book was from the perspective of markhart (an imperial city). Can you explain why the jarl of markhart committed genocide and try to blame it on ulfric
god forbid anyone who stands up for religious freedom, his and his ppl's believes eh? nah, just bow down and be a good little 'yes man' to the elven Nazi and Mede dictators
If skyrim got it independents what to stop Cyrodiil from sending food and starving skyrim back in to submission? Remember skyrim get nelly all of it food from Cyrodiil.
David Blackie and where did you get that information ? Considering Skyrim’s people were surviving and thriving before they helped found the empire I think not
@@rhadaghasttheenraged9627 the pocket guild to the empire. This channel when there did a lore vid on Cyrodiil. Lord book from eso Morrowind and oblivion. :)
One thing I think would have been interesting in Skyrim, though: during the main quest line, during the part where you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy, you all know it, there's a bit where you come across the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric Stormcloak, and in it it is mentioned how the Thalmor allowed Ulfric to believe that the Imperial city fell due to the info he gave up. Imagine being able to take this information and show it to Ulfric. Maybe it changes nothing, maybe it changes everything. He'd have proof that it wasn't his fault.
I've wanted to take that dossier to him ever since I found it. I wanted there to be a reaction. It was such a missed opportunity. It could have been done outside of the civil war quest so you didn't have to join him to get the reaction.
@@eldritchthorne It could have, although as I think, I think the reactions would have been polar opposite: either he has no reaction (even so far as maybe thinking it's a lie) or it changes his entire viewpoint.
It'd have set his mind at ease for sure, but I doubt it'd change his mind about stopping elves from literally kidnapping and torturing his kinsmen to death with the blessing of both the Empire he bled for and the Jarls who were meant to protect them.
The fact that he believes it’s his fault the Imperial city was sacked and the war almost lost completely, then still has the ego to black mail a young man into combat and further break the empire is all the proof I need to know he’s not the right man to fight for. He may be loyal to Skyrim and believe his grand speeches, but deep down he’s a foolish, rash, and when it counts cowardly Jarl. Also short sighted.
@@abdulwadood9750 thalmor are pigs for the slaughter FOOOORRR THE STORMCLOACKS i soul trap every imperial and thalmor so they can wither away in the soul cairn even nords in their ranks
Bethesda: “So how do we resolve a civil war with 2 major outcomes with potentially massive affect on the future of tamriel?” Also Bethesda: “Dragon Break”
There is a second legion of PROPER (the legion in Skyrim is mostly made out of farm boys) Imperial soldiers camped on the border. This isn't speculation, but canon. When they finally cross the border Ulfric is doomed, regardless of whether he's won or not.
@@Aewon84 Not really. A pass is easy to hold up and stop from coming through. If the Stormcloaks defeat the Empire then Ulfric can send forces to the pass to cause more avalanches, or to hold them back.
Stormcloak victory will be canon, I guarantee it. Why? Because Morrowind and Oblivion (and arguably Daggerfall too) ended with the world being saved but the Empire losing something important. I don't see Skyrim bucking the trend.
Ulfric is voiced by Vladimir Kulich, and if you've ever seen The Thirteenth Warrior, he plays Buliwyf---the movie's version of Beowulf. The actor looks exactly like a live-action Ulfric.
"Lo, there do I see my mother. Lo, there do I see my father. Lo, there do I see the line of my people. Lo, there do they call to me. They bid me take my place among them, in the hallowed halls of Valhalla, where the brave shall live forever."
Nazeem *Gladius Tullius, son of General Tullius, comes in front of him* Since you have admitted you are working with Ulfric Stormcloak, in the name of our new ally Jarl Balgruuf and the Imperial Legion, I declare you under arrest for treason! *draws sword out* The dungeons are awaiting you, Nazeem
@@pulseweld Pixel_Geist Black people are just racist to show now? Do you just get offended by people who are less attractive than celebrities? Because that's more prejudice than anything else in this thread. People get double chins based on how much they weigh, it has nothing to do with race. I bet if he had a picture of an attractive man or a celebrity you wouldn't have batted an eye. "Nice Racist Profile pic" The internet has turned into a fucking joke.
it’s sad to be honest now, you can’t even post a joke that even if it has anything remotely close connected to any race it becomes racist, jeez so shallow man. sad just sad
Something worthy of mention. Ulfric himself knows all-out with the Empire will result in loss. How do we know that? He will hold off the final siege on Solitude if Victoria Vicci (Emperor's cousin) is currently having her wedding there (Dark Brotherhood Mission). He says he doesn't want to provoke all-out war with Cyrodil if Royal blood is spilled during that siege.
An all out war with the Empire would mean that he would have to fight half the country, the Empire, and the Thalmor. If he wins the civil war and rules a United Skyrim maybe he would consider the possibility of an all out war, although I don’t think he wants to. I think he just wants to fight the Thalmor.
The Thalmor have a long history of making horrible mistakes. In the Black Marsh, they tried to make the argonians attack morrowind to destabilise the Dunmer. However, they lost all their influence in the region as the extremest An-Xileel hated all outsiders, not only the Dunmer, and that's not even considering the fact that Redoran managed to hold off the Argonians much more efficiently than the Thalmor wished. Hammerfell was going to be part of the Dominion as well, but the arrogant elves underestimated the redguards and they got kicked out, losing quite decisively to a small foe. So, is Ulfric really in such a precarious situation? Even if the Thalmor had planned for the Imperials to be distracted by such tactics, I doubt it'll do them much good and it'll possibly even backfire on them.
My thoughts exactly, especially when the dragonborn sides with him. The person who can cannonically command an army of dragons and vend the allegiences of people en masse with the voice
@@AndrewBrownK and who better to lead your men than a dedicated, experienced and bitter leader ready to do whatever he needs to do for the good of Skyrim?
Nope. Because both Imperial and Stormcloak soldiers will desert their petty lying leaders and join the new Emperor - Dragonborn, who will ascend to the throne just like Reman and Talos did! Tullius and Ulfric fell by the same hand, one for opposition, other for betrayal.
I like the idea of a free Skyrim under Ulfric moving forward. I can imagine a possible alliance between the Redguards and Nords against the Thalmor, respecting the way that Hammerfell rejected the empire and fought back against the Dominion. That would make for an interesting questline in Elder Scrolls 6, where in Hammerfell you do work with a Nord ambassador to strengthen the alliance.
Yes i would love nothing more than that myself. However they won't have any time to even think about an alliance with anyone. The Thalmor want the Stormcloaks to rule Skyrim. They secretly helped the stormcloaks without their knowledge throughout the civil war. They want to rule all of Tamriel. The civil war will give the Thalmor a perfect opportunity to strike while they fight each other. Helping the Empire take Skyrim is just asinine, not once considered an option. Helping the Stormcloaks on the other hand is genius. They aid them in secret because they know Ulfric would never allow it and also to stay in the shadows. If the Stormcloaks take Skyrim and drive the empire back to Cyrodiil it's over for Ulfric. There would be absolutely NOTHING stopping the Aldermi Dominion from attacking the Stormcloaks who are extremely exhausted from the war and in fewer numbers. On top of that, the Stormcloaks have absolutely no allies. However the return of the dragons was unexpected and threw a massive wrench in the Thalmor's plans.
@@luisrincon4672 *Cough cough* "A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however" Yeah they aided the Stormcloaks all in the name of a stalemate not to mention that their main problem to deal with is the Empire. That's why they want to drag the war on in Skyrim
I'd literally lie down and die on the spot, true happiness in my heart, If we meet Ralof of Riverwood, older, wiser, and Skyrim's ambassador to Hammerfell.
I'd love it if there were more dialogues at the peace council at High Horthgar. "Let her stay, Jarl Ulfric. I want her to remember the face and voice of the man who will march up to her embassy and massacre everyone there for the second time after he's done with the World Eater."
Bethesda did one thing really well when they created the civil war dilemma in Skyrim, they made both sides not completely right, both have their pros and cons, both have committed misdeeds and have questionable leadership. Shame they didn't allow an option for the player to claim THEMSELF the ruler of Tamriel, being the dragonborn, the only one alive at the time truly divinely chosen by the divines themselves through the bestowing of the dragon blood.
@@mrstation6905 The Emperors/Empresses of the Imperial Empire once ruled all of Tamriel from the ruby throne in Cyrodiil before that Empire began to collapse. They didn't have to leave Cyrodiil to affect affairs outside of Cyrodiil.
I would have really liked it if you had mentioned the two high elven merchants in windhelm, that seem to be accepted and treated well by the Nord. The one on the market and the one that owns the stables. The latter one's husband is also a high elf.
I think that Ulfric is ultimately misguided in his endeavors, but I want him to win in the long run, just because it would be much more interesting to see how the Empire deals with its crumbling foundations going forward.
Point of note, the problem with the "Torygg would've joined Ulfric" line is that Ulfric did ask Torygg at the Moot where he first brought up Skyrims Independence, which was at least 4 years before Ulfric and Toryggs duel.
@@dutchpatriot17he didnt just randomly blurt out those words obviously. He was at a moot of all things, with skyrim's leaders. Obviously he was pushing for skyrim's independence. They had a chance to talk it out. Ulfric opened it.
As far as I am aware the gray quarter was not Ulfric's doing but was rather likely a situation he inherited given that the dark elves have been in Windhelm for nearly 200 years.
BiggusBonus he’s sort of busy fighting a war. Multiple nord women were killed in the Blood On Ice quest and the guards outright said it was hard for them to investigate with everything going on.
@@daintysload why should he have to do it? they should do it themselves. Hell, the Altmer woman Niranye says it best "it was difficult at first, the Nords are at best suspicious of outsiders. But in time I made the right freinds and made myselfuseful enough that they dont give me trouble anymore. The dark elves are too proud and naive to understand the way things truly are and so they continue to dwell in that slum"
@@GenericUsername-qp1ww Its also pointed out how the dark elves believe Skyrim's war is not their fight so why should he think of them as his people if they don't think of Skyrim as their home. Ulfrics main concern is Skyrim's future and independence not a people who could care less what happens to their nation.
123rd like! I’m currently in hospital recovering from knee surgery. It’s 12:00am in NZ and I’m to sore to sleep! Thanks for taking the pain away fudgemuppet, even just for a few awesome minutes :)
Ulfric is my favorite. I usually pick my side by what nationality or race I am but ulfric is more personal and passionate than anyone on the imperial side. I hate the thalmor also haha
Very true. When I first played the game, not knowing anything about the lore, I went to the Imperials and eventually abandoned the game. Some time later went back to it and chose Stormcloak. And well, instantly hooked. Now I am so attached to the Stormcloak brothers and sisters that I just can't play on Imperial side anymore. xD
@@shaokhanwins1037 True! I recently tried roleplaying a thalmor agent joining the Legion and in Korvanjund was literally yawning from begin to end... Small comparison, same scene: 1. Rikke: "Let's not jump to conclusions, soldier. The Legion always finds a way. I'd rather take a moment and look around than walk blindly into an ambush." 2. Galmar: "You sure about that? Then please, be my guest and go strolling on in there. We'll stay here and watch your back... Not so sure? Oh, then perhaps we should take a moment to look around a little, eh?" I suppose, that needs no further explanation. :) Well, joining the Legion is joining an army after all...
I think I would rather see ulfric having won. He could then go on to pull a Tiber septim type move and begin allying the races of man to destroy the aldemri Dominion and replace the empire with their new alliance. Especially if the dark brotherhood questline became cannon
The dark brotherhood quest line is canon. All the factions quest lines are canon in the elder scrolls games. They just take out the character, but the events themselves still happen. So they'll say "the dark brotherhood killed the empire" but not "the dragon born killed the empire"
I just laid down for the first time in 29 hours after working and goin on a hike, smoking a bit too much for healthy mountain hiking. I'm dead af. Am I still gonna watch the new Fudgemuppet video? You're God damn right
The characters in skyrim, or at least the major characters, were actually pretty well written. It’s just a shame the game didn’t present it very much outside of the ingame books and backstory.
Here's my personal wish for an outcome of the war and future for Skyrim: The Stormcloaks successfully defeat the Imperial forces and win the civil war. Ulfric is named High King by the Moot. From here he begins rebuilding Skyrim from the aftermath of the war and grow Skyrim's military strength. Having now successfully established an independent rule, Skyrim reaches out to Hammerfell to propose an alliance between the two independent nations. Meanwhile the Empire is in a much different situation as Emperor Titus Mede II has been assassinated by the DB in Solitude, and an emergency government is formed by the Elder Council. Having now been reduced to an empire of only two provinces (Cyrodiil and HighRock), their future relies heavily on cooperation with the other non-Aldmeri nations. The Empire has no other option than to officially acknowledge both Hammerfell and Skyrim as independent and sovereign entities, and from there- negotiations of a new alliance emerges between the nations. Now that the Empire no longer need to worry about keeping control over unruly provinces, the Dominion loses direct political influence in the region. The Empire is incentivised to follow sentiment from its allies and cut ties with the Dominion and break apart from the White-Cold Concordat. Effectively ending the peace agreement, leaving the Dominion with far less political influence over the Empire and its former provinces- war erupts anew.
Ulfric as High King of Skyrim would make for a more interesting story. What's actually best for the people Skyrim is an independent Skyrim that's not led by Ulfric, perhaps in Alliance with Hammerfell. Jarl Bulgraaf is the ideal High King.
I wonder which civil war outcome will be cannon... Bethesda does seem to have been going the route (since oblivion) of a crumbling empire, which might give credence to a Stormcloak victory cannon. On the other hand, they're also seemingly building up the Thalmor and their secret/notsosecret plan to collapse the time of Mundus by destroying the towers, which would make you think that having an Imperial victory in the civil war would be cannon (as then the Thalmor have their influence there).
If they wanted the Empire to have fallen, they would've done so after the Oblivion Crisis. Instead, they made it recover by giving the Medes the throne. Clearly the Empire has plot armor.
I think that a solely Nord controlled Skyrim when being more interesting, because you have a lot more conflict in future games and to me it just makes sense. Everybody loves Talos!
I think another thing another thing often overlooked is, 1: the redguards left the empire and fought off a weakened dominion whilst running their own country. 2: ulfric was crossing thr border and headed into hammerfell so, in my head he was going to form a truce with the redguards and an alliance. I think it makes sense on many levels both are warrior people who have deep seated hatreds of the elves and both feel let down and failed by the empire. It may not have been why he was headed that way but I refuse to believe he was running away to escape the empire coz after escaping Helgen he just goes home and is like "come at me bro" to the empire and thalmor so if he was worried wouldn't he run again? I think he may literally have been attempting what I said
Option 3. The Dragonborn pipes up with a thalmor dossier, showing that the Thalmor lied to Ulfric and he is not a coward shortly before he 300’s the Thalmor agent off the city wall.
Ulfric winning is best narratively. It parallels the recent independence of the empire from all of the other provinces with the exception of high rock. For this reason I think it would be interesting to have ES 6 take place in High Rock, with the culmination of events in the main quest coinciding with the events of the next Great War, similarly to the civil war coinciding with the main quest of the Dragonborn. The armies of each individual province should indepently have an important reason to bring their troops to High Rock to deal with whatever event is taking place there. High Rock should be recently independent at the outset of the game to create social and political tensions in the region while the Great War is currently raging across Tamriel. This would give the player several interesting options. Join the thalmor and fight for the aldmeri, join the empire to help reunite High Rock under imperial rule, or join the Bretons to assert independence. With the presence of each of the other provinces armies in the region, it would give the player a choice of ten different armies to join, each with different motives and quest lines, allowing for several replayable options. The only question that would remain is what the main quest would be. I’m most in favor of the Dwemer suddenly reappearing in the distant future as this would be an unexpected event that would upend the plans and political influences of everyone in Tamriel, and thus would have the meta shifting historical influence that is common with the main quest of each ES game. It would also potentially allow the player an eleventh option of a race to choose in character development, being able to now play as a dwemer.
I think a Stormcloak victory will be cannon because of the dialogue that is said in the civil war. The speech Ulfric gives the first time you enter Windhelm is better than the military talk from Tulius, and at the end Ulfric talks about future plans like fighting the elves and rebuilding Skyrim. while Tulius dose not talk about the future. The Stormcloaks just have better dialogue in general aswell.
Wouldn't it be cool if TES6 were to take place in Hammerfell where you get the option to join some kind of Skyrim-Hammerfell pact alliance set by Ulfric and the dominion resistant Hammerfell leader(s)? Like, stories about how the Dragonborn aided to Skyrim's freedom and sovereignty from the hands of the incompetent empire and tyrannical dominion? Or something more subtle perhaps? This could be fun. Instead of another civil war, this time an allied war against the Thalmor!
Do a video on the identity of the Night Mother, whether her human vessel remained the same throughout history, etc. It would be really interesting to see a connection between Mephala and Sithis or another entity who has gained enough power to fill such a role
I've found so many accs named Justin Y and they all have a different amount of subs, usually over a thousand, can someone explains what's happening to me
It's very impressive how you took an old subject that we lore enthusiasts are very familiar with and shined a new light into it and made it interesting again
potato Thalmor Dossier (Ulfric Stormcloak): „A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.“
Rogue Tell me about the Dunmer and Shor‘s heart. Tell me about the High Elves. Tell me about the Dunmer Relation to the Khajitt & Argonians.... Tell me about Khajit relations with the High Elves and their Thief God....
Say what you will about the Stormcloaks but I, as someone who played the Imperial campaign, see Ulfric Stormcloak, Bear of Markarth, Jarl of Windhelm, as a true Son of Skyrim. Anyone who says otherwise can see me in the form of challenge, as dictated by the ancient traditions of the sons and daughters of snow.
The sovereignty of a nation is the birth right of its citizens. I have no illusions of Ulfric, but the nords deserve to choose their own fate in the land they have shed so much blood for.
What makes you think this isn't the case? The Empire rules Skyrim in name only. Skyrim pays its taxes to the Empire, and has to abide by Imperial law insofar as it's enforced, but aside from that, they're pretty independent. Being allowed to keep their own culture, gods, and even their own military to go to war with other provinces.
@@Conan_Kilgore Then you clearly haven't been paying attention. They're the ones who prevented a pocket realm of Oblivion from landing on Tamriel, and they're the only ones who stand a chance against the Dominion.
The perfect quality audio. The asmr honeyed words of the fudgemuppet crew. Add this to another great vid! I use these vids to listen while I go for my morning cycle. Feelsgoodman
I believe the next game will reveal a non-conclusion to the Civil War, following the "Season Unending" quest and will imply that the Dragonborn chose no side and the civil war still rages on. Whether it has intensified or calmed down depends on what the Thalmor do in the immediate backstory of the next game.
One of the only men or mer I stand before and feel a great weight exuding from them. He is truly a great man to behold, and one who's every word should be held onto. A man of justice and the true high king of Skyrim
@Sam Guevenne quite a difference between the two. One was building an empire, the other is trying to free his country from a tyranical empire that lets a hostile foreign power kidnap and execute innocents.
The_Drop Bear Hitler said that was what he was doing, right up until he seized power. No joke. Look at his speeches in the late 20s and early 30s. It was all “Our government sold us out, they are beholden to the Jewish, the government is defunct and corrupt and doesn’t care about you, but I DO!” Bla bla bla. Textbook way to get people fired up is to convince them that SOMEONE is making them look a fool (government, religious minorities, etc) and then convince them that YOU are the solution to it. Now look at what Ulfric says in *that* light...
Why I chose the Stormcloaks? Well first off the Empire tried to kill you in the beginning for no reason, and if they had succeeded in that, there would be no dragonborn and the end of the world would happen. The Empire is too weak to protect Skyrim because as it is they can barely protect their own home. At least from a gameplay perspective I think the Stormcloaks are in general stronger warriors seeing as how whenever I see them fighting I barely ever see the Empire win without me coming in, which makes them have a better chance against the thalmor when they come over. You can be a dark elf in a full set of imperial armor and the Stormcloaks will still give you a chance to join them. The new emperor is weak and cowardly and if the Dark Brotherhood questline is canon, that means he's gonna die which means the Empire doesn't even have a leader anymore.. And the dark elves in Morrowind have gone through much worse situations than Skyrim and still survived without the empire. Also as a bonus fuck you from the Empire they leave Maven Black-Briar as a jarl, and I hate that bitch.
clay stedman I'm pretty sure that FudgeMuppet's video on why the empire will die soon no matter which side you join in the civil war he mentioned that the ending of all of the joinable factions is canon in the elder scrolls timeline. This means that whether the Dragonborn chose to join or destroy the Dark Brotherhood, or not bother with them at all, Titus Mede II will still be assassinated, whether or not it was the Dragonborn or an unnamed person who fills in the role. Or whether or not the assassin who does the deed is aligned with the Dark Brotherhood or not. No matter what, Titus Mede II will canonically be assassinated
Ulfric's "I Fight" speech is both my phone home screen and also the reason I always join the Stormcloaks. He speaks the soldier's song. As put by good ol' "Blood and Guts" Patton, "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Yeah, as put by General Sir Alan Brooke, the Chief of the Imperial General Staff (CIGS) − the professional head of the British Army in January 1943 "I had heard of him (Patton), but I must confess that his swashbuckling personality exceeded my expectation. I did not form any high opinion of him, nor had I any reason to alter this view at any later date. A dashing, courageous, wild, and unbalanced leader, good for operations requiring thrust and push, but at a loss in any operation requiring skill and judgment." Patton was good at winning battles, but he had no fucking clue how to win a war and achieve a peace. He was a good commander of troops, but a piss poor large-scale strategist. And that's precisely why Ulfric will fail the moment the war is over. He's incompetent in pretty much everything BUT fighting - and the typical guy who, having naught but a hammer, believes everything to be a nail.
That would imply ulfric gave him the chance to agree with him. In game it's stated that he just showed up and said (paraphrasing) "fight me bitch boy."
@@Wishbone9 The topic was actually brought up during the moot that elected Torygg. It seems even though some say he might have liked the idea of an independent Skyrim, he would have been unlikely to go through with it, for fear that it would mean the Dominion could break his beloved Empire.
Ulfric is my favorite character in skyrim, but one thing that has always bugged me is Whiteruns jarl Bulgruff. He is kind of my second favorite in skyrim yet both of them don't like each other and don't side with each other during the war. Imagine if they banned together the Nords would be the strongest army in the north.
It can be confirmed about how the Forsworn were treated after stormcloak Won the battle for Markov if you play the Forsworn sidequest You can hear a former Forsworn soldier talk about how they killed his daughter and broke The deal
thank you so much for actually doing an unbias biography on Ulfric Scott. A couple things of note however to consider...The situation with the Dunmer is in reality a very old old problem . Let us not forget the history between the Nords and the Dark Elves. I believe both side are equally at fault there and at this time Ulfric truly does not have the time to deal with ancient bitterness. Mind you there are elves living in the upper end of town, High Elves even. Ulfric has not run them out. and as far as his approach to things ...he is running his campaign the only way he really knows how. based on the old Nord traditions all Nords are fed their entire lives.he never got the chance to learn diplomacy or any of these things. he thinks he is doing it the right way and it's the best way he can. is he imperfect? absolutely. flawed? highly. but the empire is over. the provinces will go independent and then eventually will have to negotiate an alliance of cooperating individual states. because we don't have The Stormcrown atop the Numidium this time around...
They ignored the fact that Ulfric collaborated with the Thalmor. And no, the situation with the Dunmer isn't very old. The Dunmer themselves state that life in Windhelm only became bad when Ulfric took the position of Jarl. Ulfric doesn't follow any Nord traditions. The Empire isn't over in any way, shape, or form.
@@dutchpatriot17 I dont know what lore you are referencing but id like so see. Nord vs Dark Elf isnt old? Have you heard of Lorkhan? So millenia arent long to you? Now lets be more clear on this. Nords and Dunmer do not hate one another. But there is an underlying bitterness. Mind you Dunmer are Daedra worshippers for one. Nords follow the Divines. Ulfric follows all Nord traditions especially politically. AND you say the Empire isnt over? All empire has left at this point is Cyrodiil and High Rock with Emperor whos likely been assassinated. Is Ulfric a puppet of the Thalmor? They think so and he doesnt know so..Collaborated? Never happened. Your reply is so off its gross.
@@aensyn4360 Lorkhan isn't a Nord, and Auri-El isn't a Dunmer. The Nords gave Solstheim to the Dunmer in 4E 16 as a means to show kindness. They welcomed the Dunmer refugees into the Holds of Skyrim, and even built Refugees' Rest so the Dunmer refugees could find their lost ones who were misplaced during the Red Year. The Nords of the Fourth Era weren't the same Nords as those of the Third and before, they were kind-hearted. At least until Ulfric took the throne in Windhelm. The Nords of Skyrim allowed the Dunmer to build grand shrines to the Daedra that they worship, so the idea that a hatred stems from that is baseless. Nords follow the Imperial Cult. Ulfric dishonors far more Nord culture than the Empire ever has. Hell, he even claims to fight for Talos; an Imperial Deity. Cyrodiil, High Rock, and Skyrim. The Empire is already winning the Civil War in Skyrim, and the chance that this is going to turn around are between slim and none at all. The Emperor is not likely to be assassinated at all. ''Collaborated? Never happened.'' Is that so? Then what of the direct and cooperative contact Ulfric established with his Thalmor overlords after the Great War? What about him proving his worth as an asset to the Thalmor? What about him throwing a hissy fit about a ban which wasn't enforced, which was considered particularly valuable from the Thalmor's pov regarding Skyrim? What about the fact that Ulfric only became dormant and uncooperative to the Thalmor after said hissy fit, when the Thalmor forced him to be jailed? Open your eyes, Ulfric's one walking lie.
@@dutchpatriot17 " Ulfric's one walking lie" Ulfric is the only one fighting for the freedom and liberty of Skyrim. Change your name you are no patriot. And yeah the Thalmor saw Ulfric as an asset because they wanted him to weaken the empire but they sure as fuck don't want him to become high king and attack them. If he's still in bed with them he wouldn't tell his followers the thalmor is the real enemy after the final battle. "ban which wasn't enforced" So what? The ban could've been enforced at at any time and it's mere existence is an insult to Skyrim and the Empire. "the chance that this is going to turn around are between slim and none at all" Some nice head canon here. The imperals are fighting on foreign soil with plenty of mountains to halt their movement and supply lines. They have numbers but you need more than that to win. "he even claims to fight for Talos; an Imperial Deity." Talos is more than just an imperial deity why would you even say that? Are you trying to sound dumb? You anti Ulfric nerds are all the same. You pseudo intellectuals always come to the table with these half baked head canonish arguments that always fall flat in the face of real objective criticism. Just admit it, you don't like Ulfric because he reminds you of the big strong jocks that used to bully you and shove you into lockers back in high school.
I usually play Stormcloaks (mostly because I love Ulfric's voice) but honestly, I would rather be independent. I'm a peacekeeper by nature and play Seasons Unending before choosing the Stormcloaks. However, with that aside, I can't side with the Imperials. Ever. I can't when there is little justification as to why my character was on the chopping block other than sheer convenience, or even more, just to torture Ulfric with watching another be put to death in front of him. I don't care if they wanted a speedy execution for Ulfric. My name was not on the list yet I was still sent to be executed only to be saved by my worst enemy. I have yet to find a source that states it is illegal to cross any border in the game and am more inclined to believe the 'wrong place, wrong time' situation instead of you being an actual criminal somehow without a reported name for the list. You're only assumed that due to being at Helgen. It's also pretty damning when you think about it: You weren't caught by any border guards, you were caught by Imperials who were had tunnel vision for capturing Ulfric. They most likely couldn't care less about provincial border crossings. I have tried playing Imperial but bailed once I interacted with Tullius the first time to join the Legion. I was not happy with his answer as to why I was nearly executed. A 'misunderstanding'. Yeah, well, that misunderstanding cost you the support of the Dragonborn. How many innocents were put on the block and didn't escape because of a 'misunderstanding'? Tells me you don't care about the citizens of Skyrim. Don't get me started on the Thalmor. I liberate anyone who is considered their prisoner. You can make up any background you want about your character but I can't overlook this as it is technically canon.
the empire used to be a lot better under septim however there was still assholes like tullius in charge and as soon as i seen him after head choping and his line (you nord and your dam jarl) i lost it the empire i remember died with martin septim. even my own people the Dunmer burned alive in the red year and empire did nothing the only option i see if interdependence and maybe alliance in order to stop the dominion and that it each Provence for it self.
Yea I left after seeing a guy in solitude executed just for opening the gate, they could’ve just locked the guy up but they decided to straight up kill him
@@memecat9830 Ikr? Solitude looks so "nicely" on the outside, but the authorities are just puppets and sort of sadistic hypocrites. Sure, in Windhelm there is that racist scene. But that's hardly anything that leaders could be held accountable for, because such people exist everywhere.
@@dantebanducci235 some not all i only side to avenge the death of my people in the Red Year the empire did nothing and so it will burn and skyrim and morrowind will be free.
@@dantebanducci235 the Dunmer r the typical lazy jackasses wanting more. Ulfric didnt have to let them in but he did and now the lazy assholes keep demanding more. If u ask me the argonians should b living inside Windhelm and the Dunmer living outside.
The Dominions geopolitical objective seems to be to ferment conflict. They fought Hammerfell and lost despite the civil war there; the Redguards united against the common enemy. Lesson learned they sign a peace agreement and let the local divisions do the work for them. In Skyrim the country is similarly divided between pro/anti Empire, Dominion interest is only that the conflict continues to sap the strength of both nations. Since the Dominion hasn't the strength to conquer Hammerfell a united Skyrim would be beyond their abilities too. So imo Skyrim does belong to the Nords and they would be better for it! The real victim in all this however is poor Valenwood :(
I think alot of the bad stories about Ulfric are fabricated. Because not one time in any quest did he ask the dragonborn or anyone else to commit genocide or any war crime really.
The racial aspect of the Stormcloaks was always ridiculous to me, and very clearly a videogame-y addition only. Realistically, Morrowind, and specifically Blacklight, Ravenrock, Ald' Silgrad, and New Gnisis etc. would be the Stormcloaks' MAIN TRADE PARTNERS, and would obviously necessitate a decent relationship. Trade with Solitude would likely be nixed/difficult, so Dawnstar and the above-mentioned would be their only options. Morrowind is in no position to take sides (as that lady in Windhelm states), and wouldn't bias themselves toward either side, trading with both on their northern and southern borders.
In my head-canon, Ulfric wins and forms an alliance with Morrowind (or what remains of it) and Hammerfell, leaving the Empire with no more than the feudal kings of High Rock, the Orcs of Wrothgar, and the shattered ghost of Old Cyrod, and miles of enemy territory between Cyrodiil and her only remaining ally. I also expect certain High Rock kingdoms to join Ulfric's alliance, such as Jehanna.
He's not going to ally with Morrowind. There's hidden dialogue of him implying plans to invade there. He's making war with Cyrodiil, the Dominion, and wants to add Morrowind to that list. The guy is nuts.
@@chadnorris8257 The Dunmer have their sympathizers among the Nords, and I'm sure people like Brunwulf Free-winter, who may or may not be a candidate for Jarl after Ulfric ascends. Ulfric isn't an evil man. He simply puts Nords first. His father embraced the Dunmer, and he himself has never expressed any real disdain for them. If the Nords rally behind the Dark Elf cause, I'm sure he would at least entertain the idea. Galmar would object of course, and Ulfric would be inclined to listen. But ultimately, he's not an idiot. He knows that Skyrim is a fractured shadow of its former self and has no chance of taking the Thalmor on their own. They need allies, and the Dark Elves need help after the Empire abandoned them too. Plus, how beautifully poetic is it to see these eras-old enemies join together against a common threat in a context that actually makes sense and isn't the "plot" of ESO? I don't recall there being any dialogue of Ulfric mentioning an invasion of Morrowind, and I sincerely doubt he gives a shit about warring with Cyrodiil beyond the secession. Ulfric isn't a warmonger. Every war he's taken part in or threatened has been for a very legitimate reason, and he has grown quite weary of it. If anything, my head-canon would be rendered null BECAUSE he refuses to go to war pointlessly. Yeah, left alone, I dont think Ulfric would spare a thought, and frankly I don't think he would lend much to the endeavour. But ultimately, I don't find it hard to believe Skyrim and Morrowind would end up as allies, even if tumultuously so.
It's always annoyed me that if I choose the Stormcloaks, I am unable to show Ulfric the dossier I steal from the Thalmor Embassy... It seems something that should been an option.
I usually side with the Empire during my Skyrim playthroughs, if I choose a side in the Civil War at all (about half of the time I don't pick a side). My only logic behind that choice is simple foresight. A fully united Empire has a much better chance of defeating the Thalmor than a fledgling independent Skyrim. Though I figure either nation would probably ally with Hammerfell, to that end. *But,* I can't deny that Ulfric Stormcloak is an absolutely fantastic potential ruler or antagonist for the player character, no matter which side you support during the Civil War quest line. The depth of his personal tragedy and personality is like something out of Shakespeare. And even if I play a Legion officer storming his palace, I could never keep myself from cringing when he died.
I think when you look at history.. Nords have a great track record of killing most elves who think there better than them. Nords are probably stronger on there own
@@americanrebelking8337 Yeah, you're probably right. And it isn't as if the Empire is weak without Skyrim, either. Compared to Cyrodiil and High Rock it isn't very well populated. What bothers me was that I couldn't hand Ulfric his own dossier that you find in the Thalmor embassy. It could have ended the Civil War and given the Aldmeri Dominion something to really be nervous about.
@@GlidingZephyr I don't think it truly would have ended the civil war. Delayed yes but I think there are many nords that truly want to be free from the empire. Expecially since Skyrim has had its own empire before. So even if they teamed up to F the elves up which they could do at any time I think Skyrim would still declare it's independents
@@americanrebelking8337 Exactly. I think that would be the best outcome, too. If the Empire agreed to a treaty which allowed for the secession of Skyrim instead of trying to clobber each other. But where's the fun in that, right? Lol
@@GlidingZephyr I don't see the empire letting that happen. You have to imagine the benefits they have to controlling Skyrim. Bases, money, food, trade, soldiers... All that. I can't see any empire just giving that up. Plus it makes them look weak when a huge portion of there lands are just like "poof!" Gone. So they would fight for it for sure.
Siding with the empire always appears to me like a bad choice. The consequence of the Empire victory are: Talmor keeps killing and torturing peoples under the guise of Talos worship until the next rebellion arise or the province is completely broken. Consequences of Stormcloak victory is possible xenophobia. I don't really know if Ulfric would make a good or a bad High King, but it seems like the only way to possibly stop the Talmor machinations. My prediction for future TES, Skyrim will gain independence but it will not be specified if it was Ulfric doing or by another mean.
@Daarthxenon Oh, so the great ol' empire made such a blunder? To mistake an innocent soul for someone else and put them under the axe? A life gone, just like that, a misunderstanding. If this isn't a giant example of the empire's incompetence i don't know what is.
@@piccoloatburgerking well its better than letting the thalmor smuggle ulfric out, tullius is smart, thus he rushes execution to end civil war, what's worse 1 innocent soul dead to end civil war or let a civil war rage on killing thousands.
@@viveka2994 Horseshit, the Empire will fail even if there was no Stomrcloak rebellion. And no, there is *_NO_* justification for killing an innocent person assumed to be the enemy without any proof. The Empire is better off dropping the facade of lists and courts then, if justice means so little to them. The Stomrcloaks will win by default sooner or later. th-cam.com/video/q5nUiAaiuz4/w-d-xo.html
Though I'm vehemently against Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, I do think that going forward in the series they should be the canon winners of the civil war. If only because it would make it much more interesting for a much more fractured empire, especially after Mede is assassinated. There's little to no hope for the empire, so how are we going to get rid of the Thalmor and stop their conquest? I feel like it would be much more rewarding to do so with this ending rather than the civil war being squashed and the empire basically going back to normal with just a little hiccup.
This video is amazingly necessary. How many of us poured hours into this game all the while barely having the faintest idea of who the belligerents of the background war were
Comrade, do you not see the conflict was orchestrated by the imperialist elves to destroy the revolution of the Nords? The elven capitalists seek to eliminate the proletariat men to increase their profits and remove any revolutionary elements. All who fail to see this have been blinded by false consciousness 😂
@@starofalltime That's as stupid as claiming that there's not just dunmers in morrowind, or not just redguards in hammerfell. It is true but the land belongs to the race that built it's civilization there. Say what you will but the natives should be able to rule themselves
@@admiralspire8867 no its not. Saying Nords know what's best for skyrim is like saying white know whats best for America. Not only is that racist but it also not true seeing as neither race in that case was the original inhabitants of those lands.
@@starofalltime Except Skyrim isn't a diverse province. None of the provinces are, maybe with the exception of Cyrodiil which is still mostly populated by Imperials. I don't care anyway, the nords came to Skyrim thousands of years ago. It's their land by right of conquest, they've been living there for generations
I don't think that Ulfric would've executed the inhabitants of Markarth after the siege just because they didn't pick up their weapons and fight alongside him against axe-slinging barbarians. People gotta protecc their wives and children. Galmar: "What's left of Skyrim to wager?" Ulfric: "They have families to think of."
Aidan Keogh But that's what exactly what he did, confirmed by in game sourches. That's way he's not only wrong but an hypocrite too, he talks of very good things but he cares only for nordic supremacy and himself. His allies in Markarth are the Silver Bloods, a family of slavers
The most misunderstood character in the whole game, probably in the whole series. I am so tired of pro-empire idiots out there claiming Ulfric is worse than Mehrunes Dagon himself! To hell with your weak Empire! Hail Talos!
@@dutchpatriot17 You still trying to tell the Nords what it is that they believe?... I still love your old argument that the Nords were a non violent people who's fights to the death were non fatal... you're a shinning example of Imperial stupidity -'J
@@thoruszwolf4153 And here you go, spreading BS once more. The Nords being known for their love of war does not mean that all they do is fight, kid. And even then, the leader of a nation should be able to show combat prowess; which you show through forcing the opponent to surrender. Cutting a man down is far easier than forcing their surrender. Of course, you know jack shit about Nord culture.
@@OldPanther That would actually be Titus Mede II, the Emperor, who gave them free rein of the Empire as part of the White-Gold Concordat... there's no indication i've ever come across that Ulfric was involved in the Concordats signing
Last time I played Skyrim was a long long time ago. Recently I started playing again and I am amazed at the depth and the choices of "role-playing" and skill development. Watching House of the Dragon n playing Skyrim .. two very immersive modes of content along fascinatingly smimilar lines
I hate it when people say that Ulfric is only selfosh and power hungry. Once you breach the Palace of Kings, Rikke tells Ulfric that Skyrim doesn't belong to him to which his response is "No, but I beling to her." If he was truly power hungry, why would he say that? There was no point in keeping up the charade at that point, he had lost the war. Hearing that, I instantly knew that I made a mistake siding with the Imperials. Ulfric's speech upon entering The Palace of Kings only further solidified my undying loyalty to the Stormcloaks. Galmar's speech at the beginning of the Battle of Whiterun is also really good and poetic.
Thats my main problem with a guy actually. All this speeches do sound good and it is evident Ulfric truly believes in all that (this guy still gets to Sovngard), but while on the surface level it is all simple and good, beneath this whole thing all i can see a naive fool, who became an instrument to the enemy he despises so much. Like it or not, Ulfric is an asset to Thalmor (cooperative or not), he murdered Torryg with his voice, he plunged his homeland into civil war (both Empire and him are at fault for that one), and he was the one who gave a Thalmor an exuse to hunt down Talos worshippers. Empire is not the best option, but at least you know what you get with them.
@@23Raind And it was Ulfric who gave Thalmor an excuse to do just right that. Before Marcarth Incident, Empire didn't persecuted people on a matter. And Ulfric straight up used Thuum in a duel and basically murdered his king to prove a point, which is Torryg didn't knew Thuum, and i doubt many High Kings did. Also yeah, Ulfric using Thuum is something that violates Greybeard rules. He was an asset before the Civil War, an asset which was cooperative and in contact with Elenven untill Marcarth Incident. So, i doubt his role as an asset is only because of the civil war. There would be war still, just against Dominion, and we have no idea how this war would have ended if not stopped. And before you point out Hammerfell case, won't be correct. Dominion main objective was ban of Talos worship, not the territories. Whole point of concordat is to buy time and prepare for the new great war. And yes, Ulfric is a criminal, considering SKyrim being part of an Empire and him openly breaking imperial laws in a land, where at least half of its population still support an Empire.
@@23Raind Considering he ended up in Thalmor prison and became Thalmor asset? Yeah, that was actually a good idea to stay with the greybeards. Also, in order to fight, he broke the rules and traditions. Same thing Empire did with concordat, broke traditions to worship Talos publicaly in order to survive war. A little bit hypocritical on Ulfric part no? Using Thuum is possible only in two cases: you are dragonborn or trained by greybeards. Ulfric was not dragonborn, so by all means he is no exeption to the rules. You speak of an Empire which broke traditions of worship to Talos, yet ignore how Ulfric broke rules and used his Thuum as a weapon, even against his own High King. Legally it was a challenge, agreed. But, it was never a fight. If Torygg knew Thuum, it would have been a fight, but he didn't. And Ulfric never gave him a proper fight, he outright shouted at a man which respected him, and finished him off like nothing. So, murder it is. The best way to solve problem with Thalmor is to win a war against them. Ulfric offers short term strategy. Yeah, for a period of time his actions will free Skyrim from their yoke (the yoke he helped to establish), but for how long? His victory will weaken an Empire and Skyrim, and Skyrim on it's own? Even if they will ally with Hammerfell? Less chances. United Empire - better solution long term. With winning a real war that will push Dominion back to its borders. Ulfric was born in the Empire, he is its citizen. Your opinion or his matters little, he is a criminal by imperial standart. It is neither good or bad thing. A simple fact. As i said, Empire offers better solution long term - winning a war agaisnt Dominion. That is the main idea. Morally - both sides are grey. And if Ulfric at very least would have bothered to convince Torryg to declare independance, i would have agreed with his cause. Instead, he chose to plunge his nation he vowed to protect into the Civil War. That is his greatest mistake.
@@23Raind Preach whatever you want, i'll still pick Empire on a factors that material. Hoping that gods would solve your troubles - have it your way. I'll have it my way. But at very least i won't follow someone who allowed to bring ruin to the people of Skyrim. Because it was Ulfric choice to shed blood of his own people, not Empire.
@@23Raind1. If it weren't for Ulfric's collaboration with the Thalmor, the Talos ban wouldn't be enforced. 2. Ulfric's status as an asset has nothing to do with the civil war. 3. Ulfric murdered Torygg through usage of the Voice. Also, it is not the Empire disrespecting Nord law, it's Ulfric. The Moot chooses the High King, Ulfric literally keeps it from meeting and damns it. He also damns the Jarls.
My personal alligance switch 3x times as I listened to this video. In the end I'm still Imperial. But I have more respect for Ulfric now that I regret using a black soul gem on him...
ArtisticBang91 Sometimes thats true for me too, the trick is to think what he has done to the reachmens in Markarth and that his allies there are literally slavers and all respect vanishes
@@jacopomazzo4949 yeah the first reasons why I hate him was forcing me to kill Balgruuf, even though he greatly respects Ulfric just like Torygg does, second was his racism towards other humanoids. That's why I'm always an Imperial Guy.
I’ve always naturally sides with the stormcloaks and ulfric’s story is really interesting. I find it almost immersion breaking to look at him as nothing more a murderous traitor
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
Ulfric invested all his points in speech
Zyn thats how you get the Thu´um
That explains why he's so easy to kill.
Didn't talk me out of killing him
Zyn yet he couldn’t really convince General Tullius to not kill him.
@@paladinheadquarters7776 Tullius also had Speech 100
It seems that most players want to reduce Ulfric to either a selfish and ruthless villain out only for his own gain, or a pure hero. I think the truth is that he's just a person who believes in himself and his cause, but also has flaws. He's a well done character and I wish that Skyrim, the game, did more with him.
He has a very believable populist arc. He mirrors many such figures in history.
@Merica that book was from the perspective of markhart (an imperial city). Can you explain why the jarl of markhart committed genocide and try to blame it on ulfric
He doesn’t realize he’s being too harsh
The empire and ulfric both have some big issues, and that's what makes it do interesting
god forbid anyone who stands up for religious freedom, his and his ppl's believes eh? nah, just bow down and be a good little 'yes man' to the elven Nazi and Mede dictators
Ulfric’s monologue when you first see him in Windhelm is epic.
The speech at the beggining gives me chills everytime.
Damn, imagine a world where Torygg declared independence himself.
Luke Price that would be a really happy thought
If skyrim got it independents what to stop Cyrodiil from sending food and starving skyrim back in to submission? Remember skyrim get nelly all of it food from Cyrodiil.
David Blackie and where did you get that information ? Considering Skyrim’s people were surviving and thriving before they helped found the empire I think not
@@rhadaghasttheenraged9627 the pocket guild to the empire. This channel when there did a lore vid on Cyrodiil. Lord book from eso Morrowind and oblivion. :)
@@rhadaghasttheenraged9627 there a reason it called the bread basket of Tamriel
One thing I think would have been interesting in Skyrim, though: during the main quest line, during the part where you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy, you all know it, there's a bit where you come across the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric Stormcloak, and in it it is mentioned how the Thalmor allowed Ulfric to believe that the Imperial city fell due to the info he gave up.
Imagine being able to take this information and show it to Ulfric. Maybe it changes nothing, maybe it changes everything. He'd have proof that it wasn't his fault.
Yah, I can't imagine it not being the intent, but alas didn't end up going anywhere in the game we got.
I've wanted to take that dossier to him ever since I found it. I wanted there to be a reaction. It was such a missed opportunity. It could have been done outside of the civil war quest so you didn't have to join him to get the reaction.
@@eldritchthorne It could have, although as I think, I think the reactions would have been polar opposite: either he has no reaction (even so far as maybe thinking it's a lie) or it changes his entire viewpoint.
It'd have set his mind at ease for sure, but I doubt it'd change his mind about stopping elves from literally kidnapping and torturing his kinsmen to death with the blessing of both the Empire he bled for and the Jarls who were meant to protect them.
The fact that he believes it’s his fault the Imperial city was sacked and the war almost lost completely, then still has the ego to black mail a young man into combat and further break the empire is all the proof I need to know he’s not the right man to fight for. He may be loyal to Skyrim and believe his grand speeches, but deep down he’s a foolish, rash, and when it counts cowardly Jarl. Also short sighted.
Who else kills every thalmore they see
And any witnesses. Gotta be thorough.
When I started playing I thought all high elves were thalmor, many elves died that week.
I side with the empire, still do
Whats with thalmor killing??
@@abdulwadood9750 thalmor are pigs for the slaughter
FOOOORRR THE STORMCLOACKS
i soul trap every imperial and thalmor so they can wither away in the soul cairn even nords in their ranks
Bethesda: “So how do we resolve a civil war with 2 major outcomes with potentially massive affect on the future of tamriel?”
Also Bethesda: “Dragon Break”
They are probably just going with whatever outcome fits in to their plans of fucking over the world once more, or Season unending.
There is a second legion of PROPER (the legion in Skyrim is mostly made out of farm boys) Imperial soldiers camped on the border. This isn't speculation, but canon. When they finally cross the border Ulfric is doomed, regardless of whether he's won or not.
@@Aewon84 While that information exists and hints at a potential outcome, that would just put things back to status quo.
@@Aewon84 Not really. A pass is easy to hold up and stop from coming through. If the Stormcloaks defeat the Empire then Ulfric can send forces to the pass to cause more avalanches, or to hold them back.
Stormcloak victory will be canon, I guarantee it. Why? Because Morrowind and Oblivion (and arguably Daggerfall too) ended with the world being saved but the Empire losing something important. I don't see Skyrim bucking the trend.
Ulfric is voiced by Vladimir Kulich, and if you've ever seen The Thirteenth Warrior, he plays Buliwyf---the movie's version of Beowulf. The actor looks exactly like a live-action Ulfric.
Oh god that makes Ulfric even harder to dislike
"Lo, there do I see my mother.
Lo, there do I see my father.
Lo, there do I see the line of my people.
Lo, there do they call to me.
They bid me take my place among them,
in the hallowed halls of Valhalla,
where the brave
shall live
forever."
Never seen it, after looking this up I am gonna watch
Ulfric stormcloak gets to the cloud district very often.
He co-owns chillfurrow farm.
Nazeem *Gladius Tullius, son of General Tullius, comes in front of him* Since you have admitted you are working with Ulfric Stormcloak, in the name of our new ally Jarl Balgruuf and the Imperial Legion, I declare you under arrest for treason! *draws sword out* The dungeons are awaiting you, Nazeem
@@jacopomazzo4949
Nazeem: *hovers above the ground "you dare oppose me mortal"*
What are you saying of course he don't
how many times does i have to kill you for you to stop asking
This is the only channel where i am fully interested in EVERY video they make, coudnt be more impressed ;)
nice racist profile picture.
@@pulseweld why racist?
Pixel_Geist racist?
@@pulseweld Pixel_Geist Black people are just racist to show now?
Do you just get offended by people who are less attractive than celebrities?
Because that's more prejudice than anything else in this thread.
People get double chins based on how much they weigh, it has nothing to do with race.
I bet if he had a picture of an attractive man or a celebrity you wouldn't have batted an eye.
"Nice Racist Profile pic"
The internet has turned into a fucking joke.
it’s sad to be honest now, you can’t even post a joke that even if it has anything remotely close connected to any race it becomes racist, jeez so shallow man. sad just sad
Something worthy of mention. Ulfric himself knows all-out with the Empire will result in loss. How do we know that? He will hold off the final siege on Solitude if Victoria Vicci (Emperor's cousin) is currently having her wedding there (Dark Brotherhood Mission). He says he doesn't want to provoke all-out war with Cyrodil if Royal blood is spilled during that siege.
Gamin' Reasons does the same thing if the emperor him self is on his ship outside the city
In the case of Victoria, it's possible it's because she is marrying someone connected to the Stormcloaks.
Just assassinate the Emperor and Victoria. Simple ass
An all out war with the Empire would mean that he would have to fight half the country, the Empire, and the Thalmor. If he wins the civil war and rules a United Skyrim maybe he would consider the possibility of an all out war, although I don’t think he wants to. I think he just wants to fight the Thalmor.
The Thalmor have a long history of making horrible mistakes.
In the Black Marsh, they tried to make the argonians attack morrowind to destabilise the Dunmer. However, they lost all their influence in the region as the extremest An-Xileel hated all outsiders, not only the Dunmer, and that's not even considering the fact that Redoran managed to hold off the Argonians much more efficiently than the Thalmor wished.
Hammerfell was going to be part of the Dominion as well, but the arrogant elves underestimated the redguards and they got kicked out, losing quite decisively to a small foe.
So, is Ulfric really in such a precarious situation? Even if the Thalmor had planned for the Imperials to be distracted by such tactics, I doubt it'll do them much good and it'll possibly even backfire on them.
My thoughts exactly, especially when the dragonborn sides with him. The person who can cannonically command an army of dragons and vend the allegiences of people en masse with the voice
agreed hell there even a chance a new Pact could be restored
Plus other videos indicate that the empire is likely to suffer a demise in most circumstances anyway. Might as well break away on your own terms.
@@AndrewBrownK and who better to lead your men than a dedicated, experienced and bitter leader ready to do whatever he needs to do for the good of Skyrim?
@@grimms1916 and also, depending on the relationship the DB has on the Greybeards, they might offer to help. A fucking dragon and 4 uber shout units.
Anybody ever raided an imperial camp and kill everybody but the general never dies and always gets back up?
Yeah the commanders are essential so they can't die
Nope. I'm raiding them damned rebels.
*stormcloak camp. Vile traitors refuse to die, even after the empire achieves full victory in the war
Yes
Nope. Because both Imperial and Stormcloak soldiers will desert their petty lying leaders and join the new Emperor - Dragonborn, who will ascend to the throne just like Reman and Talos did! Tullius and Ulfric fell by the same hand, one for opposition, other for betrayal.
I like the idea of a free Skyrim under Ulfric moving forward. I can imagine a possible alliance between the Redguards and Nords against the Thalmor, respecting the way that Hammerfell rejected the empire and fought back against the Dominion. That would make for an interesting questline in Elder Scrolls 6, where in Hammerfell you do work with a Nord ambassador to strengthen the alliance.
Yes i would love nothing more than that myself. However they won't have any time to even think about an alliance with anyone. The Thalmor want the Stormcloaks to rule Skyrim. They secretly helped the stormcloaks without their knowledge throughout the civil war. They want to rule all of Tamriel. The civil war will give the Thalmor a perfect opportunity to strike while they fight each other. Helping the Empire take Skyrim is just asinine, not once considered an option. Helping the Stormcloaks on the other hand is genius. They aid them in secret because they know Ulfric would never allow it and also to stay in the shadows. If the Stormcloaks take Skyrim and drive the empire back to Cyrodiil it's over for Ulfric. There would be absolutely NOTHING stopping the Aldermi Dominion from attacking the Stormcloaks who are extremely exhausted from the war and in fewer numbers. On top of that, the Stormcloaks have absolutely no allies. However the return of the dragons was unexpected and threw a massive wrench in the Thalmor's plans.
@@luisrincon4672
*Cough cough*
"A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however"
Yeah they aided the Stormcloaks all in the name of a stalemate not to mention that their main problem to deal with is the Empire. That's why they want to drag the war on in Skyrim
I'd literally lie down and die on the spot, true happiness in my heart, If we meet Ralof of Riverwood, older, wiser, and Skyrim's ambassador to Hammerfell.
I'd love it if there were more dialogues at the peace council at High Horthgar.
"Let her stay, Jarl Ulfric. I want her to remember the face and voice of the man who will march up to her embassy and massacre everyone there for the second time after he's done with the World Eater."
Elenwen: * shits pants *
Bethesda did one thing really well when they created the civil war dilemma in Skyrim, they made both sides not completely right, both have their pros and cons, both have committed misdeeds and have questionable leadership. Shame they didn't allow an option for the player to claim THEMSELF the ruler of Tamriel, being the dragonborn, the only one alive at the time truly divinely chosen by the divines themselves through the bestowing of the dragon blood.
NODnuke45 ruler of Tamriel NO ruler of Skyrim YES
@@mrstation6905 all of the Emperors have been Dragonborn or at least related to one
Tosco that’s true but how are you supposed to affect affairs outside of Skyrim
@@mrstation6905 You'd be surprised how much power a man with the soul of a dragon that is buddies with the new leader of said dragons has
@@mrstation6905 The Emperors/Empresses of the Imperial Empire once ruled all of Tamriel from the ruby throne in Cyrodiil before that Empire began to collapse. They didn't have to leave Cyrodiil to affect affairs outside of Cyrodiil.
Went looking for lore on elder scrolls.... it seems that i found the right place ( this is gonna be a good binge)
It will take you a year to watch all of lore videos they have
@@americanrebelking8337 its worth the time
the next two weeks are gonna be amazing for you lmao all their content is super good with lore
I would have really liked it if you had mentioned the two high elven merchants in windhelm, that seem to be accepted and treated well by the Nord. The one on the market and the one that owns the stables. The latter one's husband is also a high elf.
There is also Windhelms Alchemist who is an Altmer. In all, there are 4 Altmer citizens in Windhelm
I think that Ulfric is ultimately misguided in his endeavors, but I want him to win in the long run, just because it would be much more interesting to see how the Empire deals with its crumbling foundations going forward.
Point of note, the problem with the "Torygg would've joined Ulfric" line is that Ulfric did ask Torygg at the Moot where he first brought up Skyrims Independence, which was at least 4 years before Ulfric and Toryggs duel.
He never asked, just spoke of it.
@@dutchpatriot17 "in all means except treason" sounds pretty explicit to me.
@@KheptlaxaXonu Not really. He spoke of Skyrim's independent. Never asked for it.
@@dutchpatriot17he didnt just randomly blurt out those words obviously. He was at a moot of all things, with skyrim's leaders.
Obviously he was pushing for skyrim's independence. They had a chance to talk it out. Ulfric opened it.
@@shaokhanwins1037 We never know what he said, nor how much.
As far as I am aware the gray quarter was not Ulfric's doing but was rather likely a situation he inherited given that the dark elves have been in Windhelm for nearly 200 years.
So? He still doesn't care about them or do anything to change this.
BiggusBonus he’s sort of busy fighting a war. Multiple nord women were killed in the Blood On Ice quest and the guards outright said it was hard for them to investigate with everything going on.
@@thunderbird7020 Yeah, hard to investigate because Ulfric sends off half of his guardforce while there's a murderer on the loose.
@@daintysload why should he have to do it? they should do it themselves. Hell, the Altmer woman Niranye says it best "it was difficult at first, the Nords are at best suspicious of outsiders. But in time I made the right freinds and made myselfuseful enough that they dont give me trouble anymore. The dark elves are too proud and naive to understand the way things truly are and so they continue to dwell in that slum"
@@GenericUsername-qp1ww Its also pointed out how the dark elves believe Skyrim's war is not their fight so why should he think of them as his people if they don't think of Skyrim as their home. Ulfrics main concern is Skyrim's future and independence not a people who could care less what happens to their nation.
123rd like! I’m currently in hospital recovering from knee surgery. It’s 12:00am in NZ and I’m to sore to sleep! Thanks for taking the pain away fudgemuppet, even just for a few awesome minutes :)
Get better soon man
Hope you don't become a guard 😉
Kia Ora bro, here's hoping it heals good aye?
get well soon !!
So you got hit by arrow in the knee?
Thank you for posting so much. I’ve been really sad lately and I really appreciate having even more Skyrim videos to watch
it always gets better eventually man :)
have a good day
Ulfric is my favorite. I usually pick my side by what nationality or race I am but ulfric is more personal and passionate than anyone on the imperial side. I hate the thalmor also haha
Everyone who isn't Thalmor hates Thalmor
Very true. When I first played the game, not knowing anything about the lore, I went to the Imperials and eventually abandoned the game. Some time later went back to it and chose Stormcloak. And well, instantly hooked. Now I am so attached to the Stormcloak brothers and sisters that I just can't play on Imperial side anymore. xD
@@henryetha hell, I have 1 of every race join the Stormclock, even a dark elf.
@@henryethai played both a lot but I do prefer stormcloak characters. Legate Rikke and general Tullius just feels flat compared to Galmar and Ulfric.
@@shaokhanwins1037 True! I recently tried roleplaying a thalmor agent joining the Legion and in Korvanjund was literally yawning from begin to end...
Small comparison, same scene:
1. Rikke: "Let's not jump to conclusions, soldier. The Legion always finds a way. I'd rather take a moment and look around than walk blindly into an ambush."
2. Galmar: "You sure about that? Then please, be my guest and go strolling on in there. We'll stay here and watch your back... Not so sure? Oh, then perhaps we should take a moment to look around a little, eh?"
I suppose, that needs no further explanation. :) Well, joining the Legion is joining an army after all...
I think I would rather see ulfric having won. He could then go on to pull a Tiber septim type move and begin allying the races of man to destroy the aldemri Dominion and replace the empire with their new alliance. Especially if the dark brotherhood questline became cannon
The dark brotherhood quest line is canon. All the factions quest lines are canon in the elder scrolls games. They just take out the character, but the events themselves still happen. So they'll say "the dark brotherhood killed the empire" but not "the dragon born killed the empire"
Day 6 of asking for a lore video of the drugs/ narcotics of Tamriel
You see moon sugar?
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Drugs
Hello redwater skooma
@@antonyborlase3965 Khajiit have wares if you have coin.
I need skoo.......maaa
I just laid down for the first time in 29 hours after working and goin on a hike, smoking a bit too much for healthy mountain hiking. I'm dead af. Am I still gonna watch the new Fudgemuppet video? You're God damn right
Pussy
Try hiking up The Throat of The World with an ice wolf stuck at your ankles.
Ulfric is the true High King!
The characters in skyrim, or at least the major characters, were actually pretty well written. It’s just a shame the game didn’t present it very much outside of the ingame books and backstory.
Here's my personal wish for an outcome of the war and future for Skyrim:
The Stormcloaks successfully defeat the Imperial forces and win the civil war. Ulfric is named High King by the Moot. From here he begins rebuilding Skyrim from the aftermath of the war and grow Skyrim's military strength. Having now successfully established an independent rule, Skyrim reaches out to Hammerfell to propose an alliance between the two independent nations.
Meanwhile the Empire is in a much different situation as Emperor Titus Mede II has been assassinated by the DB in Solitude, and an emergency government is formed by the Elder Council. Having now been reduced to an empire of only two provinces (Cyrodiil and HighRock), their future relies heavily on cooperation with the other non-Aldmeri nations. The Empire has no other option than to officially acknowledge both Hammerfell and Skyrim as independent and sovereign entities, and from there- negotiations of a new alliance emerges between the nations.
Now that the Empire no longer need to worry about keeping control over unruly provinces, the Dominion loses direct political influence in the region. The Empire is incentivised to follow sentiment from its allies and cut ties with the Dominion and break apart from the White-Cold Concordat. Effectively ending the peace agreement, leaving the Dominion with far less political influence over the Empire and its former provinces- war erupts anew.
Ulfric as High King of Skyrim would make for a more interesting story. What's actually best for the people Skyrim is an independent Skyrim that's not led by Ulfric, perhaps in Alliance with Hammerfell. Jarl Bulgraaf is the ideal High King.
Agreed!
Although I ess poeples point that’s he may be a bit too indecisive to be a good king.
I wonder which civil war outcome will be cannon...
Bethesda does seem to have been going the route (since oblivion) of a crumbling empire, which might give credence to a Stormcloak victory cannon. On the other hand, they're also seemingly building up the Thalmor and their secret/notsosecret plan to collapse the time of Mundus by destroying the towers, which would make you think that having an Imperial victory in the civil war would be cannon (as then the Thalmor have their influence there).
If they wanted the Empire to have fallen, they would've done so after the Oblivion Crisis. Instead, they made it recover by giving the Medes the throne. Clearly the Empire has plot armor.
I think that a solely Nord controlled Skyrim when being more interesting, because you have a lot more conflict in future games and to me it just makes sense. Everybody loves Talos!
I think another thing another thing often overlooked is,
1: the redguards left the empire and fought off a weakened dominion whilst running their own country.
2: ulfric was crossing thr border and headed into hammerfell so, in my head he was going to form a truce with the redguards and an alliance. I think it makes sense on many levels both are warrior people who have deep seated hatreds of the elves and both feel let down and failed by the empire. It may not have been why he was headed that way but I refuse to believe he was running away to escape the empire coz after escaping Helgen he just goes home and is like "come at me bro" to the empire and thalmor so if he was worried wouldn't he run again? I think he may literally have been attempting what I said
Option 3. The Dragonborn pipes up with a thalmor dossier, showing that the Thalmor lied to Ulfric and he is not a coward shortly before he 300’s the Thalmor agent off the city wall.
Ulfric winning is best narratively. It parallels the recent independence of the empire from all of the other provinces with the exception of high rock. For this reason I think it would be interesting to have ES 6 take place in High Rock, with the culmination of events in the main quest coinciding with the events of the next Great War, similarly to the civil war coinciding with the main quest of the Dragonborn. The armies of each individual province should indepently have an important reason to bring their troops to High Rock to deal with whatever event is taking place there. High Rock should be recently independent at the outset of the game to create social and political tensions in the region while the Great War is currently raging across Tamriel. This would give the player several interesting options. Join the thalmor and fight for the aldmeri, join the empire to help reunite High Rock under imperial rule, or join the Bretons to assert independence. With the presence of each of the other provinces armies in the region, it would give the player a choice of ten different armies to join, each with different motives and quest lines, allowing for several replayable options. The only question that would remain is what the main quest would be. I’m most in favor of the Dwemer suddenly reappearing in the distant future as this would be an unexpected event that would upend the plans and political influences of everyone in Tamriel, and thus would have the meta shifting historical influence that is common with the main quest of each ES game. It would also potentially allow the player an eleventh option of a race to choose in character development, being able to now play as a dwemer.
I think a Stormcloak victory will be cannon because of the dialogue that is said in the civil war. The speech Ulfric gives the first time you enter Windhelm is better than the military talk from Tulius, and at the end Ulfric talks about future plans like fighting the elves and rebuilding Skyrim. while Tulius dose not talk about the future. The Stormcloaks just have better dialogue in general aswell.
Wouldn't it be cool if TES6 were to take place in Hammerfell where you get the option to join some kind of Skyrim-Hammerfell pact alliance set by Ulfric and the dominion resistant Hammerfell leader(s)? Like, stories about how the Dragonborn aided to Skyrim's freedom and sovereignty from the hands of the incompetent empire and tyrannical dominion? Or something more subtle perhaps? This could be fun. Instead of another civil war, this time an allied war against the Thalmor!
Do a video on the identity of the Night Mother, whether her human vessel remained the same throughout history, etc. It would be really interesting to see a connection between Mephala and Sithis or another entity who has gained enough power to fill such a role
There's a link between Mephala and Sanguine - correct?
@@zerodeconduite804 Yep, there is! They mention it super briefly in their Mephala video
It just works
Where the f**k have you been
16 times the detail
4 times the map size
its just gay
I've found so many accs named Justin Y and they all have a different amount of subs, usually over a thousand, can someone explains what's happening to me
I love how you use quotes and footage from the games. Creates a great mood for the video right from the beginning.
It's very impressive how you took an old subject that we lore enthusiasts are very familiar with and shined a new light into it and made it interesting again
Ulfric’s speech gives me Goosebumps and shows how great he is !
Hoàng Nguyên
„Tulius knows what to do and what’s going on“
That‘s a good one , my imperial puppet😂
Ysmir Wulfharth ulfric is just a power hungry narrow minded racist
@@ysmirwulfharth4012 a stormcloak victory is what the thalmor want
potato
Thalmor Dossier (Ulfric Stormcloak):
„A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.“
Rogue
Tell me about the Dunmer and Shor‘s heart.
Tell me about the High Elves.
Tell me about the Dunmer Relation to the Khajitt & Argonians....
Tell me about Khajit relations with the High Elves and their Thief God....
Say what you will about the Stormcloaks but I, as someone who played the Imperial campaign, see Ulfric Stormcloak, Bear of Markarth, Jarl of Windhelm, as a true Son of Skyrim.
Anyone who says otherwise can see me in the form of challenge, as dictated by the ancient traditions of the sons and daughters of snow.
The fact the Empire allows Nazeem to walk around Whiterun is why i joined the Stormcloaks. :)
do you get to the cloud district very often
Looks like *somebody* doesn't get to the Cloud District very often.
The sovereignty of a nation is the birth right of its citizens. I have no illusions of Ulfric, but the nords deserve to choose their own fate in the land they have shed so much blood for.
What makes you think this isn't the case? The Empire rules Skyrim in name only. Skyrim pays its taxes to the Empire, and has to abide by Imperial law insofar as it's enforced, but aside from that, they're pretty independent. Being allowed to keep their own culture, gods, and even their own military to go to war with other provinces.
@@dutchpatriot17 why would one pay taxes for being basically sovereign when one could be actually sovereign?
@@Conan_Kilgore Because the Empire ensures them with prosperity and security against greater threats to Tamriel?
@@dutchpatriot17 I dont think the Emipre is really protecting anyone in a meaningful way in the 4th era
@@Conan_Kilgore Then you clearly haven't been paying attention. They're the ones who prevented a pocket realm of Oblivion from landing on Tamriel, and they're the only ones who stand a chance against the Dominion.
The perfect quality audio. The asmr honeyed words of the fudgemuppet crew. Add this to another great vid! I use these vids to listen while I go for my morning cycle. Feelsgoodman
Enjoy!
All im saying is when ulfric dies, he would have the same build and abilities as a drugar death overlord. 😯
Stormcloak's for life
I believe the next game will reveal a non-conclusion to the Civil War, following the "Season Unending" quest and will imply that the Dragonborn chose no side and the civil war still rages on. Whether it has intensified or calmed down depends on what the Thalmor do in the immediate backstory of the next game.
“Turns out we’re pretty evenly matched.”
-Imperial Soldier, ‘The Senile Scribbles’
One of the only men or mer I stand before and feel a great weight exuding from them. He is truly a great man to behold, and one who's every word should be held onto. A man of justice and the true high king of Skyrim
Imperials may seem like the better choice, but that speech Ulfric has always manages to get me all *norded* up
Any government that lets a hostile foreign power kidnap and kill it's citizens doesn't deserve to be in power
@Sam Guevenne quite a difference between the two. One was building an empire, the other is trying to free his country from a tyranical empire that lets a hostile foreign power kidnap and execute innocents.
The easily manipulated are swayed by emotions.
Sam Guevenne you do realize that the dominion mirrors Nazi Germany to a degree right?
The_Drop Bear Hitler said that was what he was doing, right up until he seized power. No joke. Look at his speeches in the late 20s and early 30s. It was all “Our government sold us out, they are beholden to the Jewish, the government is defunct and corrupt and doesn’t care about you, but I DO!” Bla bla bla. Textbook way to get people fired up is to convince them that SOMEONE is making them look a fool (government, religious minorities, etc) and then convince them that YOU are the solution to it. Now look at what Ulfric says in *that* light...
Why I chose the Stormcloaks? Well first off the Empire tried to kill you in the beginning for no reason, and if they had succeeded in that, there would be no dragonborn and the end of the world would happen. The Empire is too weak to protect Skyrim because as it is they can barely protect their own home. At least from a gameplay perspective I think the Stormcloaks are in general stronger warriors seeing as how whenever I see them fighting I barely ever see the Empire win without me coming in, which makes them have a better chance against the thalmor when they come over. You can be a dark elf in a full set of imperial armor and the Stormcloaks will still give you a chance to join them. The new emperor is weak and cowardly and if the Dark Brotherhood questline is canon, that means he's gonna die which means the Empire doesn't even have a leader anymore.. And the dark elves in Morrowind have gone through much worse situations than Skyrim and still survived without the empire. Also as a bonus fuck you from the Empire they leave Maven Black-Briar as a jarl, and I hate that bitch.
clay stedman I'm pretty sure that FudgeMuppet's video on why the empire will die soon no matter which side you join in the civil war he mentioned that the ending of all of the joinable factions is canon in the elder scrolls timeline. This means that whether the Dragonborn chose to join or destroy the Dark Brotherhood, or not bother with them at all, Titus Mede II will still be assassinated, whether or not it was the Dragonborn or an unnamed person who fills in the role. Or whether or not the assassin who does the deed is aligned with the Dark Brotherhood or not.
No matter what, Titus Mede II will canonically be assassinated
@@thomaswalker8621 lol If the Empire "WON" the Great War why was Talos banned? Why does Empire obey what the Thalmor demand?
They’ll probably do a mix of both. Have Ulfric win, but after he dies his Kingdom collapses back into the Empire.
Ulfric's "I Fight" speech is both my phone home screen and also the reason I always join the Stormcloaks. He speaks the soldier's song. As put by good ol' "Blood and Guts" Patton, "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Yeah, as put by General Sir Alan Brooke, the Chief of the Imperial General Staff (CIGS) − the professional head of the British Army in January 1943 "I had heard of him (Patton), but I must confess that his swashbuckling personality exceeded my expectation. I did not form any high opinion of him, nor had I any reason to alter this view at any later date. A dashing, courageous, wild, and unbalanced leader, good for operations requiring thrust and push, but at a loss in any operation requiring skill and judgment."
Patton was good at winning battles, but he had no fucking clue how to win a war and achieve a peace. He was a good commander of troops, but a piss poor large-scale strategist.
And that's precisely why Ulfric will fail the moment the war is over. He's incompetent in pretty much everything BUT fighting - and the typical guy who, having naught but a hammer, believes everything to be a nail.
I would love to see a what if Torygg listened to ulfric and declared independence
That would imply ulfric gave him the chance to agree with him. In game it's stated that he just showed up and said (paraphrasing) "fight me bitch boy."
@@Wishbone9 The topic was actually brought up during the moot that elected Torygg. It seems even though some say he might have liked the idea of an independent Skyrim, he would have been unlikely to go through with it, for fear that it would mean the Dominion could break his beloved Empire.
Ulfric Stormcloak is a hero.
Also, a movie about the life of Ulfric would be epic.
Ulfric is my favorite character in skyrim, but one thing that has always bugged me is Whiteruns jarl Bulgruff. He is kind of my second favorite in skyrim yet both of them don't like each other and don't side with each other during the war. Imagine if they banned together the Nords would be the strongest army in the north.
I always go stormcloak simply because they didnt try to cut my head off
It can be confirmed about how the Forsworn were treated after stormcloak Won the battle for Markov if you play the Forsworn sidequest You can hear a former Forsworn soldier talk about how they killed his daughter and broke The deal
I dont have a preference on which side I just like the color blue more
Mason Singleton and people who side with the Imperial Legion will still have a problem with you for that, because reasons.
@@marielenapotts848 haha you know that's so true. Haha very funny hats off to ya
I prefer red but I'm team Ulfric all the way. Hes a far better leader for Skyrim than the naive idiot Elisif
I’m playing the Skyrim while watching this 😂
Who’s not ?
What character do you play ?
Abalis 82 Same 😂
Ysmir Wulfharth a Mace wielding male Nord Stormcloak character named Lysander the Loyal
Toliver
Pretty neat, my fellow Nord!
But a very southern/Greek Name for a Nord don‘t you think?
Even though it sounds really cool, nice alliteration.
Ysmir Wulfharth oh you are right it is a southern/Greek name ,but I based his appearance off Alexander the Great so it made sense in the end
Ulfric Stormcloak, the true high king
thank you so much for actually doing an unbias biography on Ulfric Scott. A couple things of note however to consider...The situation with the Dunmer is in reality a very old old problem . Let us not forget the history between the Nords and the Dark Elves. I believe both side are equally at fault there and at this time Ulfric truly does not have the time to deal with ancient bitterness. Mind you there are elves living in the upper end of town, High Elves even. Ulfric has not run them out. and as far as his approach to things ...he is running his campaign the only way he really knows how. based on the old Nord traditions all Nords are fed their entire lives.he never got the chance to learn diplomacy or any of these things. he thinks he is doing it the right way and it's the best way he can. is he imperfect? absolutely. flawed? highly. but the empire is over. the provinces will go independent and then eventually will have to negotiate an alliance of cooperating individual states. because we don't have The Stormcrown atop the Numidium this time around...
They ignored the fact that Ulfric collaborated with the Thalmor. And no, the situation with the Dunmer isn't very old. The Dunmer themselves state that life in Windhelm only became bad when Ulfric took the position of Jarl.
Ulfric doesn't follow any Nord traditions. The Empire isn't over in any way, shape, or form.
@@dutchpatriot17 I dont know what lore you are referencing but id like so see. Nord vs Dark Elf isnt old? Have you heard of Lorkhan? So millenia arent long to you? Now lets be more clear on this. Nords and Dunmer do not hate one another. But there is an underlying bitterness. Mind you Dunmer are Daedra worshippers for one. Nords follow the Divines. Ulfric follows all Nord traditions especially politically. AND you say the Empire isnt over? All empire has left at this point is Cyrodiil and High Rock with Emperor whos likely been assassinated. Is Ulfric a puppet of the Thalmor? They think so and he doesnt know so..Collaborated? Never happened. Your reply is so off its gross.
@@aensyn4360 Lorkhan isn't a Nord, and Auri-El isn't a Dunmer.
The Nords gave Solstheim to the Dunmer in 4E 16 as a means to show kindness. They welcomed the Dunmer refugees into the Holds of Skyrim, and even built Refugees' Rest so the Dunmer refugees could find their lost ones who were misplaced during the Red Year. The Nords of the Fourth Era weren't the same Nords as those of the Third and before, they were kind-hearted. At least until Ulfric took the throne in Windhelm.
The Nords of Skyrim allowed the Dunmer to build grand shrines to the Daedra that they worship, so the idea that a hatred stems from that is baseless. Nords follow the Imperial Cult.
Ulfric dishonors far more Nord culture than the Empire ever has. Hell, he even claims to fight for Talos; an Imperial Deity.
Cyrodiil, High Rock, and Skyrim. The Empire is already winning the Civil War in Skyrim, and the chance that this is going to turn around are between slim and none at all. The Emperor is not likely to be assassinated at all.
''Collaborated? Never happened.''
Is that so? Then what of the direct and cooperative contact Ulfric established with his Thalmor overlords after the Great War? What about him proving his worth as an asset to the Thalmor? What about him throwing a hissy fit about a ban which wasn't enforced, which was considered particularly valuable from the Thalmor's pov regarding Skyrim? What about the fact that Ulfric only became dormant and uncooperative to the Thalmor after said hissy fit, when the Thalmor forced him to be jailed?
Open your eyes, Ulfric's one walking lie.
@@dutchpatriot17 " Ulfric's one walking lie" Ulfric is the only one fighting for the freedom and liberty of Skyrim. Change your name you are no patriot.
And yeah the Thalmor saw Ulfric as an asset because they wanted him to weaken the empire but they sure as fuck don't want him to become high king and attack them. If he's still in bed with them he wouldn't tell his followers the thalmor is the real enemy after the final battle.
"ban which wasn't enforced" So what? The ban could've been enforced at at any time and it's mere existence is an insult to Skyrim and the Empire.
"the chance that this is going to turn around are between slim and none at all" Some nice head canon here. The imperals are fighting on foreign soil with plenty of mountains to halt their movement and supply lines. They have numbers but you need more than that to win.
"he even claims to fight for Talos; an Imperial Deity." Talos is more than just an imperial deity why would you even say that? Are you trying to sound dumb?
You anti Ulfric nerds are all the same. You pseudo intellectuals always come to the table with these half baked head canonish arguments that always fall flat in the face of real objective criticism. Just admit it, you don't like Ulfric because he reminds you of the big strong jocks that used to bully you and shove you into lockers back in high school.
Hail Ulfric, the true high king of Skyrim!
Best jarl in Skyrim
Long may the true king reign.
I usually play Stormcloaks (mostly because I love Ulfric's voice) but honestly, I would rather be independent. I'm a peacekeeper by nature and play Seasons Unending before choosing the Stormcloaks.
However, with that aside, I can't side with the Imperials. Ever. I can't when there is little justification as to why my character was on the chopping block other than sheer convenience, or even more, just to torture Ulfric with watching another be put to death in front of him. I don't care if they wanted a speedy execution for Ulfric. My name was not on the list yet I was still sent to be executed only to be saved by my worst enemy.
I have yet to find a source that states it is illegal to cross any border in the game and am more inclined to believe the 'wrong place, wrong time' situation instead of you being an actual criminal somehow without a reported name for the list. You're only assumed that due to being at Helgen. It's also pretty damning when you think about it: You weren't caught by any border guards, you were caught by Imperials who were had tunnel vision for capturing Ulfric. They most likely couldn't care less about provincial border crossings.
I have tried playing Imperial but bailed once I interacted with Tullius the first time to join the Legion. I was not happy with his answer as to why I was nearly executed. A 'misunderstanding'. Yeah, well, that misunderstanding cost you the support of the Dragonborn. How many innocents were put on the block and didn't escape because of a 'misunderstanding'? Tells me you don't care about the citizens of Skyrim. Don't get me started on the Thalmor. I liberate anyone who is considered their prisoner.
You can make up any background you want about your character but I can't overlook this as it is technically canon.
the empire used to be a lot better under septim however there was still assholes like tullius in charge and as soon as i seen him after head choping and his line (you nord and your dam jarl) i lost it the empire i remember died with martin septim.
even my own people the Dunmer burned alive in the red year and empire did nothing the only option i see if interdependence and maybe alliance in order to stop the dominion and that it each Provence for it self.
Ulfric’s voice: Nordic badass
Tullius’s voice: Dying pirate
“Hadvarrrr! Inteh den keeeeeep sholdur, weeeer leeeeeevin!”
Yea I left after seeing a guy in solitude executed just for opening the gate, they could’ve just locked the guy up but they decided to straight up kill him
@@HisRoyalMajestyKingofWeedshire that's doctor mitchell's voice
@@memecat9830 Ikr? Solitude looks so "nicely" on the outside, but the authorities are just puppets and sort of sadistic hypocrites.
Sure, in Windhelm there is that racist scene. But that's hardly anything that leaders could be held accountable for, because such people exist everywhere.
Skyrim is for the Nords, I'll never sway from this!
Also, the Dunmer are ungrateful scum.
@@dantebanducci235 some not all i only side to avenge the death of my people in the Red Year the empire did nothing and so it will burn and skyrim and morrowind will be free.
I love Skyrim, but I hate ignorant ass Nords.
@@dantebanducci235 the Dunmer r the typical lazy jackasses wanting more. Ulfric didnt have to let them in but he did and now the lazy assholes keep demanding more. If u ask me the argonians should b living inside Windhelm and the Dunmer living outside.
@@GenericUsername-qp1ww Yeah! Fucking elves! Always hate their kind!
The Dominions geopolitical objective seems to be to ferment conflict. They fought Hammerfell and lost despite the civil war there; the Redguards united against the common enemy. Lesson learned they sign a peace agreement and let the local divisions do the work for them. In Skyrim the country is similarly divided between pro/anti Empire, Dominion interest is only that the conflict continues to sap the strength of both nations. Since the Dominion hasn't the strength to conquer Hammerfell a united Skyrim would be beyond their abilities too.
So imo Skyrim does belong to the Nords and they would be better for it! The real victim in all this however is poor Valenwood :(
The Altmer of Summerset Isles were arguably just as victimized when the Thalmor took over
I think alot of the bad stories about Ulfric are fabricated. Because not one time in any quest did he ask the dragonborn or anyone else to commit genocide or any war crime really.
The racial aspect of the Stormcloaks was always ridiculous to me, and very clearly a videogame-y addition only. Realistically, Morrowind, and specifically Blacklight, Ravenrock, Ald' Silgrad, and New Gnisis etc. would be the Stormcloaks' MAIN TRADE PARTNERS, and would obviously necessitate a decent relationship. Trade with Solitude would likely be nixed/difficult, so Dawnstar and the above-mentioned would be their only options.
Morrowind is in no position to take sides (as that lady in Windhelm states), and wouldn't bias themselves toward either side, trading with both on their northern and southern borders.
I'm sure he made it out, it'll take more than a dragon to stop ulfric stormcloak..
In my head-canon, Ulfric wins and forms an alliance with Morrowind (or what remains of it) and Hammerfell, leaving the Empire with no more than the feudal kings of High Rock, the Orcs of Wrothgar, and the shattered ghost of Old Cyrod, and miles of enemy territory between Cyrodiil and her only remaining ally.
I also expect certain High Rock kingdoms to join Ulfric's alliance, such as Jehanna.
I also believe House Telvani would side with The Aldmeri Dominion over Skyrim.
He's not going to ally with Morrowind. There's hidden dialogue of him implying plans to invade there. He's making war with Cyrodiil, the Dominion, and wants to add Morrowind to that list. The guy is nuts.
@@chadnorris8257
The Dunmer have their sympathizers among the Nords, and I'm sure people like Brunwulf Free-winter, who may or may not be a candidate for Jarl after Ulfric ascends.
Ulfric isn't an evil man. He simply puts Nords first. His father embraced the Dunmer, and he himself has never expressed any real disdain for them. If the Nords rally behind the Dark Elf cause, I'm sure he would at least entertain the idea.
Galmar would object of course, and Ulfric would be inclined to listen. But ultimately, he's not an idiot. He knows that Skyrim is a fractured shadow of its former self and has no chance of taking the Thalmor on their own. They need allies, and the Dark Elves need help after the Empire abandoned them too.
Plus, how beautifully poetic is it to see these eras-old enemies join together against a common threat in a context that actually makes sense and isn't the "plot" of ESO?
I don't recall there being any dialogue of Ulfric mentioning an invasion of Morrowind, and I sincerely doubt he gives a shit about warring with Cyrodiil beyond the secession.
Ulfric isn't a warmonger. Every war he's taken part in or threatened has been for a very legitimate reason, and he has grown quite weary of it. If anything, my head-canon would be rendered null BECAUSE he refuses to go to war pointlessly.
Yeah, left alone, I dont think Ulfric would spare a thought, and frankly I don't think he would lend much to the endeavour. But ultimately, I don't find it hard to believe Skyrim and Morrowind would end up as allies, even if tumultuously so.
All hail to ulfric you are the high king
In his great honor we’ll drink and we’ll sing!
It's always annoyed me that if I choose the Stormcloaks, I am unable to show Ulfric the dossier I steal from the Thalmor Embassy... It seems something that should been an option.
this is a total stormcloak comment section and im here for it. #freeskyrim
End the Rebellion! End the treason! End the racism! And end the Dominion terrorism! All hail the Septim Empire!
@@StarStruckSolace the **septim** empire??
Omega Imperialis you mean Mede empire
@@ajsayyar4984 It's the Empire founded by Tiber Septim. So no. Septim Empire.
@@dutchpatriot17
No it is not. There is no septim on the throne, and the amulet of kings is broken. This is no Septim Empire
all hail the true high king no more the bear of markarth but the bear of skyrim glory to true sons and daughters of skyrim
I think the truly interesting path to take is Ulfric wining.
Damn ya'll, LOVING all this content, just be careful not to drain your reserves.
3:15 good to see that Immersive Armours is now canon. :D
YEAHHHH
Immersive Armor canon is the only thing on which Imperials and Rebels can agree. All Hail Immersive Armor
I usually side with the Empire during my Skyrim playthroughs, if I choose a side in the Civil War at all (about half of the time I don't pick a side). My only logic behind that choice is simple foresight. A fully united Empire has a much better chance of defeating the Thalmor than a fledgling independent Skyrim. Though I figure either nation would probably ally with Hammerfell, to that end.
*But,* I can't deny that Ulfric Stormcloak is an absolutely fantastic potential ruler or antagonist for the player character, no matter which side you support during the Civil War quest line. The depth of his personal tragedy and personality is like something out of Shakespeare. And even if I play a Legion officer storming his palace, I could never keep myself from cringing when he died.
I think when you look at history.. Nords have a great track record of killing most elves who think there better than them. Nords are probably stronger on there own
@@americanrebelking8337 Yeah, you're probably right. And it isn't as if the Empire is weak without Skyrim, either. Compared to Cyrodiil and High Rock it isn't very well populated. What bothers me was that I couldn't hand Ulfric his own dossier that you find in the Thalmor embassy. It could have ended the Civil War and given the Aldmeri Dominion something to really be nervous about.
@@GlidingZephyr I don't think it truly would have ended the civil war. Delayed yes but I think there are many nords that truly want to be free from the empire. Expecially since Skyrim has had its own empire before. So even if they teamed up to F the elves up which they could do at any time I think Skyrim would still declare it's independents
@@americanrebelking8337 Exactly. I think that would be the best outcome, too. If the Empire agreed to a treaty which allowed for the secession of Skyrim instead of trying to clobber each other. But where's the fun in that, right? Lol
@@GlidingZephyr I don't see the empire letting that happen. You have to imagine the benefits they have to controlling Skyrim. Bases, money, food, trade, soldiers... All that. I can't see any empire just giving that up. Plus it makes them look weak when a huge portion of there lands are just like "poof!" Gone. So they would fight for it for sure.
Siding with the empire always appears to me like a bad choice. The consequence of the Empire victory are: Talmor keeps killing and torturing peoples under the guise of Talos worship until the next rebellion arise or the province is completely broken. Consequences of Stormcloak victory is possible xenophobia. I don't really know if Ulfric would make a good or a bad High King, but it seems like the only way to possibly stop the Talmor machinations. My prediction for future TES, Skyrim will gain independence but it will not be specified if it was Ulfric doing or by another mean.
Never forget who tried to murder the Dragonborn when the game began.
@Daarthxenon Oh, so the great ol' empire made such a blunder? To mistake an innocent soul for someone else and put them under the axe? A life gone, just like that, a misunderstanding. If this isn't a giant example of the empire's incompetence i don't know what is.
That's what i always based my decision on lol.
@@piccoloatburgerking well its better than letting the thalmor smuggle ulfric out, tullius is smart, thus he rushes execution to end civil war, what's worse 1 innocent soul dead to end civil war or let a civil war rage on killing thousands.
@@viveka2994 Horseshit, the Empire will fail even if there was no Stomrcloak rebellion. And no, there is *_NO_* justification for killing an innocent person assumed to be the enemy without any proof. The Empire is better off dropping the facade of lists and courts then, if justice means so little to them. The Stomrcloaks will win by default sooner or later. th-cam.com/video/q5nUiAaiuz4/w-d-xo.html
@@piccoloatburgerking what is worse? One dead or thousands
Lore video on either Nazeem, The Vestige from ESO, or how Todd Howard will become the tenth divine
Though I'm vehemently against Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, I do think that going forward in the series they should be the canon winners of the civil war. If only because it would make it much more interesting for a much more fractured empire, especially after Mede is assassinated. There's little to no hope for the empire, so how are we going to get rid of the Thalmor and stop their conquest? I feel like it would be much more rewarding to do so with this ending rather than the civil war being squashed and the empire basically going back to normal with just a little hiccup.
This video is amazingly necessary. How many of us poured hours into this game all the while barely having the faintest idea of who the belligerents of the background war were
Comrade, do you not see the conflict was orchestrated by the imperialist elves to destroy the revolution of the Nords? The elven capitalists seek to eliminate the proletariat men to increase their profits and remove any revolutionary elements. All who fail to see this have been blinded by false consciousness 😂
@@seanmcmanus2777 - you're blowing our damn cover!!!
@@jacrispy3275 Dovakulak!
Nords know what’s best for Nords I’d Say
Not some imperial down south
There are more than just nords in skyrim friend.
@@starofalltime That's as stupid as claiming that there's not just dunmers in morrowind, or not just redguards in hammerfell.
It is true but the land belongs to the race that built it's civilization there.
Say what you will but the natives should be able to rule themselves
@@admiralspire8867 no its not. Saying Nords know what's best for skyrim is like saying white know whats best for America. Not only is that racist but it also not true seeing as neither race in that case was the original inhabitants of those lands.
@@starofalltime
Except Skyrim isn't a diverse province. None of the provinces are, maybe with the exception of Cyrodiil which is still mostly populated by Imperials.
I don't care anyway, the nords came to Skyrim thousands of years ago.
It's their land by right of conquest, they've been living there for generations
@@starofalltime White Americans know what’s best for white Americans, yes. And no that’s not racist.
did multiple playthroughs with both the empire and the storncloaks. In the end, I favor the stormcloaks.
I don't think that Ulfric would've executed the inhabitants of Markarth after the siege just because they didn't pick up their weapons and fight alongside him against axe-slinging barbarians. People gotta protecc their wives and children.
Galmar: "What's left of Skyrim to wager?"
Ulfric: "They have families to think of."
Aidan Keogh But that's what exactly what he did, confirmed by in game sourches. That's way he's not only wrong but an hypocrite too, he talks of very good things but he cares only for nordic supremacy and himself. His allies in Markarth are the Silver Bloods, a family of slavers
I want a Stormcloak Victory! I think it would be cooler. Great video
The most misunderstood character in the whole game, probably in the whole series. I am so tired of pro-empire idiots out there claiming Ulfric is worse than Mehrunes Dagon himself! To hell with your weak Empire! Hail Talos!
Pah, any true Nord would spit on these bastardised Stormcloaks, who dishonor more Nord culture than anyone else on Tamriel.
@@dutchpatriot17 You still trying to tell the Nords what it is that they believe?... I still love your old argument that the Nords were a non violent people who's fights to the death were non fatal... you're a shinning example of Imperial stupidity -'J
@@thoruszwolf4153 And here you go, spreading BS once more.
The Nords being known for their love of war does not mean that all they do is fight, kid. And even then, the leader of a nation should be able to show combat prowess; which you show through forcing the opponent to surrender. Cutting a man down is far easier than forcing their surrender.
Of course, you know jack shit about Nord culture.
Well he is the reason the Thalmor are in Skyrim
@@OldPanther That would actually be Titus Mede II, the Emperor, who gave them free rein of the Empire as part of the White-Gold Concordat... there's no indication i've ever come across that Ulfric was involved in the Concordats signing
Last time I played Skyrim was a long long time ago. Recently I started playing again and I am amazed at the depth and the choices of "role-playing" and skill development.
Watching House of the Dragon n playing Skyrim .. two very immersive modes of content along fascinatingly smimilar lines
Who else in here is a fellow stormcloak ?
Skyrim for the nords!
@@sevensins3584 ulfric is the true high king ! ✊
Used to be with the empire, but now am a stormcloak
@@marianogomez1664 welcome fellow brother of Skyrim
I'm a dunmer, but i still joined stormcloaks.
I hate it when people say that Ulfric is only selfosh and power hungry. Once you breach the Palace of Kings, Rikke tells Ulfric that Skyrim doesn't belong to him to which his response is "No, but I beling to her." If he was truly power hungry, why would he say that? There was no point in keeping up the charade at that point, he had lost the war. Hearing that, I instantly knew that I made a mistake siding with the Imperials.
Ulfric's speech upon entering The Palace of Kings only further solidified my undying loyalty to the Stormcloaks. Galmar's speech at the beginning of the Battle of Whiterun is also really good and poetic.
Thats my main problem with a guy actually. All this speeches do sound good and it is evident Ulfric truly believes in all that (this guy still gets to Sovngard), but while on the surface level it is all simple and good, beneath this whole thing all i can see a naive fool, who became an instrument to the enemy he despises so much. Like it or not, Ulfric is an asset to Thalmor (cooperative or not), he murdered Torryg with his voice, he plunged his homeland into civil war (both Empire and him are at fault for that one), and he was the one who gave a Thalmor an exuse to hunt down Talos worshippers. Empire is not the best option, but at least you know what you get with them.
@@23Raind And it was Ulfric who gave Thalmor an excuse to do just right that. Before Marcarth Incident, Empire didn't persecuted people on a matter.
And Ulfric straight up used Thuum in a duel and basically murdered his king to prove a point, which is Torryg didn't knew Thuum, and i doubt many High Kings did. Also yeah, Ulfric using Thuum is something that violates Greybeard rules.
He was an asset before the Civil War, an asset which was cooperative and in contact with Elenven untill Marcarth Incident. So, i doubt his role as an asset is only because of the civil war.
There would be war still, just against Dominion, and we have no idea how this war would have ended if not stopped. And before you point out Hammerfell case, won't be correct. Dominion main objective was ban of Talos worship, not the territories. Whole point of concordat is to buy time and prepare for the new great war. And yes, Ulfric is a criminal, considering SKyrim being part of an Empire and him openly breaking imperial laws in a land, where at least half of its population still support an Empire.
@@23Raind Considering he ended up in Thalmor prison and became Thalmor asset? Yeah, that was actually a good idea to stay with the greybeards. Also, in order to fight, he broke the rules and traditions. Same thing Empire did with concordat, broke traditions to worship Talos publicaly in order to survive war. A little bit hypocritical on Ulfric part no?
Using Thuum is possible only in two cases: you are dragonborn or trained by greybeards. Ulfric was not dragonborn, so by all means he is no exeption to the rules. You speak of an Empire which broke traditions of worship to Talos, yet ignore how Ulfric broke rules and used his Thuum as a weapon, even against his own High King.
Legally it was a challenge, agreed. But, it was never a fight. If Torygg knew Thuum, it would have been a fight, but he didn't. And Ulfric never gave him a proper fight, he outright shouted at a man which respected him, and finished him off like nothing. So, murder it is.
The best way to solve problem with Thalmor is to win a war against them. Ulfric offers short term strategy. Yeah, for a period of time his actions will free Skyrim from their yoke (the yoke he helped to establish), but for how long? His victory will weaken an Empire and Skyrim, and Skyrim on it's own? Even if they will ally with Hammerfell? Less chances. United Empire - better solution long term. With winning a real war that will push Dominion back to its borders.
Ulfric was born in the Empire, he is its citizen. Your opinion or his matters little, he is a criminal by imperial standart. It is neither good or bad thing. A simple fact.
As i said, Empire offers better solution long term - winning a war agaisnt Dominion. That is the main idea. Morally - both sides are grey. And if Ulfric at very least would have bothered to convince Torryg to declare independance, i would have agreed with his cause. Instead, he chose to plunge his nation he vowed to protect into the Civil War. That is his greatest mistake.
@@23Raind Preach whatever you want, i'll still pick Empire on a factors that material. Hoping that gods would solve your troubles - have it your way. I'll have it my way. But at very least i won't follow someone who allowed to bring ruin to the people of Skyrim. Because it was Ulfric choice to shed blood of his own people, not Empire.
@@23Raind1. If it weren't for Ulfric's collaboration with the Thalmor, the Talos ban wouldn't be enforced.
2. Ulfric's status as an asset has nothing to do with the civil war.
3. Ulfric murdered Torygg through usage of the Voice. Also, it is not the Empire disrespecting Nord law, it's Ulfric. The Moot chooses the High King, Ulfric literally keeps it from meeting and damns it. He also damns the Jarls.
I know the empire is the right choice but when playing a nord i always fight for Ulfric, that speech when you first see him is a big reason why.
The empire is clearly the wrong choice. They try to kill you without a trial and don't allow religious freedom. Only pussies join the empire.
'Magic Torture' is going to be my 80s synthpop cover band name.
My personal alligance switch 3x times as I listened to this video. In the end I'm still Imperial. But I have more respect for Ulfric now that I regret using a black soul gem on him...
ArtisticBang91 Sometimes thats true for me too, the trick is to think what he has done to the reachmens in Markarth and that his allies there are literally slavers and all respect vanishes
@@jacopomazzo4949 yeah the first reasons why I hate him was forcing me to kill Balgruuf, even though he greatly respects Ulfric just like Torygg does, second was his racism towards other humanoids. That's why I'm always an Imperial Guy.
I’ve always naturally sides with the stormcloaks and ulfric’s story is really interesting. I find it almost immersion breaking to look at him as nothing more a murderous traitor
True high king
High King Torygg sure was the true High King.
@@dutchpatriot17 yeah but he's dead
You guys should make a video saying which outcome of the war you would prefer, stating the pros and cons of each. Unless you've already done that.