Ian: Well, that's the common thing today, but early on, why not have them arranged like the spokes in a wheel? Also Ian: *spends 12 minutes explaining why not have them arranged like the spokes on a wheel*
I suppose you've already figured out the cap magazine being open when the rifle is cocked, but in case anyone doesn't know - I found a picture of the rifle, where the cap magazine has a sort of plate around the hammer that completes the circular look of the cap magazine and holds the loaded cap in place. The hammer fits in a hole in the magazine rather than an open space where the caps would fall out.
Ian is one of the best firearms technicians ever. He does such a great job describing these weapons so that even a novice can understand how these interesting firearms work. Thanks Ian for being a master at making forgotten weapons such a fountain of information. I appreciate what he does and am fascinated by the weapons he describes so well.
The condition of this rifle is truly amazing, especially in light of it's age. All I've ever seen of these guns were some pretty bad reproduced photos. Thanks!
Dangerous maybe, but ingenious. The ingenuity of early gunmakers to achieve a multi-shot capability has always been interesting to me. The gun looks very well made too.
Oh definitely. Early gun makers were brilliant. That being said, there is no way in hell I am buying nor firing a rifle that has a chance of shooting a live round back at my leg.
The 18th and 19th century feels a lot like the Cambrian period, where an explosion exotic designs were tried until one general form managed to gain dominance.
@@ckl9390 everyone was trying to figure out how to shoot more bullets faster. But then people started to improve the better systems until we go the magazine feed system which became the standard to everything that is not a shotgun.
+ultor europae I know. But it's not a big deal, because this isn't a mass produced modern gun. It's a piece of history and engineering. Appreciate it for what it is.
***** Bronze cannons had the advantage that bronze is pretty flexible. Cast Iron Cannons on the other hand had a tendency to burst without warning. This is the reasons why they started to reinforce the cast iron barrels with wrought iron rings to reduce the chance of rupture. And what you said about car engines is wrong. Most car engines have a maximum chamber pressure of around 400psi. 9x19mm has a maximum chamber pressure of around 35.000psi (if you use the SAAMI testing protocol).
+JinzoDefiler they definitely had the machining capability at the time, it was just really expensive. go check out his video on the merwin and hullbert revolver. its got tolerances so tight that a vaccum forms between the parts
+AldanFerrox Casting can easily withstand the pressures associated with firearms. While forging and machining was the standard of the era, castings could easily withstand the pressure. Seriously, the millions upon millions of American small arms made during WWII were all castings, specifically lost wax casting. Ruger still uses casting as its main method of manufacture. Just an fyi.
+Григорий Александров I think this is backed up by the fact that the "pusher" is not a half-circle as you would expect if it was pushing caps, but is a flat edge that would push on some sort of strip backing with all the caps on it.
+Григорий Александров I was thinking a similar thing. A discardable paper cartridge, each time the hammer slams down, a cap is torn off and detonated. But a metal clip like +Ryan resa is talking about makes more sense. But how would you index it? The caps would somehow have to prevent the clip from rotating unless they are fired. We need a better look at the cap magazine.
Maybe you don't actually open the compartment to load it, but rather single load caps into it tube magazine style? Looks like they might be retained that way.
Fascinating - it's wonderful to see that devices like this that were so technologically unconventional have survived to give us a better record of how engineering evolved to the models we have present day. Many thanks for showing this beautiful example.
I've watched allmost all your vids, but this one slipped through. Funny, because I can now finally determine I've dug up a cylinder for this rifle. Corroded, but still. Location is interesting, did they get exported to the Netherlands? Found inbetween ww1 cap badges, Lebel casings, 2cm Flak casings/ live munition, and flak88 stellschlüssel (time fuse setting key, marked, 4 different types!)... Very interesting spot, at most 2 feet of water over mud/rocks, up to 1/2 mile into a lake. But aside from that, are there more designs like this, or was this a unique design? Enjoying your vids, allways interesting to watch.
Ive always dreamed of being able to travel to a former battlefield somewhere in Europe, like the area you found your treasures. I think it is beyond cool that people are still finding things to this day, its as if every single day we are getting back a little bit more of our past back, and everyone we find something its another story waiting to be heard
+UnclePutte the thing is easy to understand, the problem here is to understand why someone end up with such unsafe and complicated way to shoot 9 bullets! ahhahaha
+UnclePutte It looks extremely complex but when you follow Ian through it, it seems like really the whole thing relies on a couple of sprung steel bits holding things in the right places.
I really like it when you show something as unique as this. Seeing all the weird things that were tried by gun manufacturer I wonder if anyone tried making a gun that use something else than gun powder as an explosive, like a liquid or a gas for instance, or even micro sticks of dynamite.
Quite a complicated hard work just to develop a faulty concept. Anyway, a monumental wayward curiosity which makes a delight to look at. Thanks again, Ian.
Very interesting design. The trigger bar arrangement is straight out of a traditional musket, which really let's you see it's place as a transitional design. As for the lack of fore end, I would think, like a revolving rifle, you would not want to put your hand up there anyway, least you get burns from the cylinder gap.
I wrote about a rifle very similar to this one in a series of alternate history stories I wrote inspired by the Cochran Revolver. In my case the turret or wheel as it was called was horizontal, not vertical, It also used an internal wheel lock type system so it was called a wheel gun. An arm crank on the bottom (doubling as a trigger guard) would be rotated one revolution which would rotate the turret, and cock the firing mechanism. Being a wheel lock and needing to be primed for each shot (the story was set before and during the war of 1812) the turret moved underneath the frizzen which kept the primer charge away from the other touch holes in the turret preventing chain fire. The turret could easily be removed and replaced with a fresh one (held 9 rounds).
Could it be that it was the shape of the percussion caps themselves that held them in place? After they were fired, they might have deformed enough to fall out. However it worked, that is a fascinating piece of weapon design.
This may have been designed to use the Maynard Tape Primer system, which was in use by the United States military at the time, specifically in their M1855 Springfield, and that would explain the confusing "percussion cap" magazine, and as it's a tape, would not spill out as a handful of percussion caps would.
Looking at this thing makes me want to write a steampunk story. The over complicated but functional design is just the sort of thing that makes me think of anachronistic Victorian era technology.
+loahnuh It's not really overcomplicated... the mechanism is fairly simple, the only bit that makes it particularly more complicated than a normal revolver is the cap magazine with how caps were placed automatically. Otherwise it's just a matter of the parts being on the side instead of the back/bottom of the gun.
+Ronald van Kemenade the Drebbel (c.a. 1620) according to wikipedia, I remembered mention of a Civil war submersible watercraft that was manually driven, and built by the Confederates (the H.L. Hunley, wikipedia again), so not much of a stretch. Thanks to the old Carmen Sandiego cartoon for that one.
Actually, there lost two parts that operate procussion caps - small hook, screwed to lever, that extracts used cap and curly piece that hold next cap in place. Here is nice photo of that pieces silvercore.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/porter-second-model-lever-action-turret-rifle-mid-19th-century-silvercore-training-3-jgp.jpg
+ultor europae I'm Not sure if that's an actual question or you're suggesting I should shoot myself with a chain fire. So here are my answers: Hell no or go fuck yourself.
+DeWolf33 I don't blame you! But like he said there is something missing to register and depose the fired caps. The metal on that thing looks awesome though so I wouldn't be afraid to operate at half it's rated charge just for fun. But the loading mechanism is missing and also something to do with cap transfer. Oh and it was never mentioned what kind of special caps this thing needed since it slid them into place and didn't actually have any way to place it on a nipple. Brute force? LOL There had to be something else acting there besides the spring loaded cap revolver mechanism.
Maybe its me but the channel in the cap magazine looks a little shallow for traditional caps. What it all the caps were formed on a single curved strip, That would keep them all from just falling out. And when the hammer falls it just shears off the exposed cap from the strip.
Without weapons like this we wouldnt have modern firearms we have today and to see what one person came up with is incredable, people seem to forget how hard it acctually is to make a working firearm another great vid tho buddy!
I would enjoy more of these ...on types...actions not used....great history..example my great grandfather..had a 32 cal pin fire he was a civil war veteran...a night watch man and carried this type....thanks for your good work
It doesn't give me hope that people, according to comments, can't manage to understand how this works... other than that, beautiful piece of engineering!
I wonder if the Warframe devs watch this show. A lot of the weapons have a distinct experimental feel, and you can match almost every one to a Forgotten Weapons video.
the complexity of the machining and design put this rifle into the "work of art" class. Only the most precise tolerancing of the turret and locking components would create the alignments needed to position the cylinders correctly. This movement is 20x the size of the tiny notches on a colt revolver cylinder making it 20x the strength and reliability. it would really suck to be shot by a chain fire but the design is still beautiful.
+Forgotten Weapons - I am a new subscriber, and am thoroughly enjoying your vids! This rifle engineering is fascinating. Thank you so much for providing another interesting and educational video!
Quirky complex design. As for the percussion cap cylinder, there used by several types of caps, some in a thick lined paper or frabric. I think this was one of the few guns that used them.
Could the caps be on a continuous bandelier? So a strip could be inserted and engaged into the dog/finger in the cap magazine, not requiring any extra retaining mech.
This is my thinking as well. The video didn't show the bottom of the magazine area so well. The strip could be placed so that the part of the strip with used (burned/flattened) caps would be pushed there, but something would have blocked a full, unused cap from entering there.
Uncommon but real when the chambers lie next to each other as in a typical revolver. The sparks from the cylinder gap *can* enter into an adjacent chamber and if the bullet doesn't have a good seal, potentially could ignite the charge and cause a chainfire. This turret gun however I think would nearly negate that possibility due to a few design factors: 1. Since the chambers are mounted radially, the openings are much further apart than a parallel chamber cylinder which would decrease the chance of errant ignition. 2. Again since they are radially mounted, the curve of the cylinder moves away from the direction of any cylinder gap sparks 3. The chambers that are pointed at the shooter are the ones furthest away from the cylinder gap sparks which again decreases and chainfire chances 4. The tension springs around the barrel I think also served to control cylinder gap sparks and gasses. They looks as though they have relief holes so that the majority if not all sparks and gas are directed towards the front of the gun, as well as the 3 releif holes drilled into each side of the receiver right at the cylinder gap. 5. Lastly, if by some miracle one of the rear facing chambers DOES go off, it would need to shoot completely through the rear of the receiver and stock, which I find unlikely. It probably end up blowing the side open and all the bits falling out. Maybe get a little hurt, certainly scary, but not deadly I would think.
If the user was afraid of chain firing, they could always load one, two, or even three chambers at a time. They could load the top three chambers prior to cocking it and neither would be pointed at the shooter in the event of failure. Since they would not have to load through the end of the barrel or place a percussion cap after each round, it would still be faster to reload than a traditional muzzle loader. It does defeat the purpose of buying a nine shot rifle, effectively reducing it to three repeated shots, but it would work.
wow, I alway did love a mule ear lock, but I never thought a side slapper would be used for a revolver though. its not hard to forge a mule ear lock.as I remember, the military tested the Cochran horizontal turret revolver against the colt and found it seriously lacking for just the same reasons you mentioned.it also isn't very soldier friendly.i also think your right.it is missing a part.thanx for the video.
I wouldn't recommend ever holding a rifle with cylinder gap in front of the cylinder. Many people usually say that just because chain firing which isn't an issue but hot powder and breaking of cylinder locks that could cause the barrel and cylinder to become offset could be more dangerous albeit rarer.
It is missing two parts at the cap magazine. There is supposed to be one spring(?) mounted at the small hole underneath the big one holding the cap magazine closed, which wraps around the front end (probably only allowing a squished cap to fall out, and a rod screwed to the lever with two screws (underneath the screw visible on the lever) that pushes into that magazine - most likely to scrape the used cap out when the lever goes forward, and guide the next cap (pushed by the magazine spring) into place on returning the lever.
I think it's supposed to retract then raise the nipple when the assembly is rotated, and thereby hold the remaining caps in place. When it is retracted the old nipple comes off and the new one slides down and is then caught by the nipple raising back out.
It's possible the serpentine loading lever assembly missing from the top had an extension along the side that held the exposed caps in place and prevented them from falling out. That would explain why it's missing- the assembly would have to be removed in order to open the side plate.
Oh! When I clicked on this I thought "turret rifle" meant something used from inside a turret. But I think my favourite part of FW is seeing all these mechanisms that were tried and didn't last.
Might be some sort of break-off percussion caps, this would make it logical and simpler to load a set of caps as one piece... And I really like the venting system that goes in four directions, allot of effort to direct that hot gas away from the cylinder ;)
I think the cap is held in place by its size, and when the hammer hits it, it smashes it so that it falls out, so the next cap comes into place. I'd rather have a harmonica gun... with an under hammer for cool factor.
There is another problem with this kind of turret cylinder. The amount of propellant is very limited by the fact that the chamber is necessarily less that half the diameter of the turret. With a 'normal' cylinder you can actually make it quite long and, hence, powerful.
The caps for this rifle were premade in a semicircle.They were not like #11 caps for pistols, they lay flat on the touch hole thats why theres no nipple. I thinks that the problem a nipple helps seal the spark,but that flat cap sparks were going everwere
Ian, perhaps the caps were attached in a semicircular fashion? Maybe in a rigid string of pearl fashion were the strip of caps rotate through clockwise.
In the video description on Line 1 at the very end "they" is used instead of "there", and also what may be an error on line 6 where you typed: "In addition, they and a wonderful design in which the entire side of the receiver opens up to make the action visible." kind of seems like autocorrect :P
Cap and Ball pistol lasted until 1873 when Colt came out with the 1873 New Army. As for the Cap and ball revolvers, they could be converted to cartridge as early as 1866, Henry came out with a lever action rifle in 1860 and Spencer followed with one in 1861. So this rifle did not come out at the end of the cap and ball era, more towards the middle. Okay, it is either missing a small piece or it used a larger cap, that would not fall through until it was destroyed in firing.
They did not use single Percussion caps, but some kind of "Amorces" taped bands (small ignition loads in paper wrapping as known from toy guns). So nothing would drop out.Chain fire is kind of over-estimated, as long as you avoid using undersized bullets. Round balls are more prone to causing chain-fire, but elongated Bullets (which i would prefer with a rifle) with grease grooves make chain fire almost impossible if properly sized.
Ian: Well, that's the common thing today, but early on, why not have them arranged like the spokes in a wheel?
Also Ian: *spends 12 minutes explaining why not have them arranged like the spokes on a wheel*
Interesting, the RIA description actually includes this video embedded in it. I got caught in an infinite loop.
Let us know when you escape.
Legends say he’s still in a loop to this day
Q: Why did the programmer die in the shower?
A: The shampoo bottle said: "Wash, rinse, repeat"
I wonder if Cascademenace ever escaped the loop?
I suppose you've already figured out the cap magazine being open when the rifle is cocked, but in case anyone doesn't know - I found a picture of the rifle, where the cap magazine has a sort of plate around the hammer that completes the circular look of the cap magazine and holds the loaded cap in place. The hammer fits in a hole in the magazine rather than an open space where the caps would fall out.
Ian is one of the best firearms technicians ever. He does such a great job describing these weapons so that even a novice can understand how these interesting firearms work. Thanks Ian for being a master at making forgotten weapons such a fountain of information. I appreciate what he does and am fascinated by the weapons he describes so well.
The condition of this rifle is truly amazing, especially in light of it's age. All I've ever seen of these guns were some pretty bad reproduced photos. Thanks!
I know, that barrel is beautiful, the depth of the blueing is exceptional.
Dangerous maybe, but ingenious. The ingenuity of early gunmakers to achieve a multi-shot capability has always been interesting to me. The gun looks very well made too.
Oh definitely. Early gun makers were brilliant. That being said, there is no way in hell I am buying nor firing a rifle that has a chance of shooting a live round back at my leg.
The 18th and 19th century feels a lot like the Cambrian period, where an explosion exotic designs were tried until one general form managed to gain dominance.
@@ckl9390 everyone was trying to figure out how to shoot more bullets faster. But then people started to improve the better systems until we go the magazine feed system which became the standard to everything that is not a shotgun.
this rifle looks like it belongs in dishonnored
Hey you're right
hey that's believable
Hey...
Um. Good. U?
Indeed, I believe so...
Hey Ian, just wanted to say that your videos have allowed me to expand my knowledge of firearms. Of which I am very grateful!
It's fascinating to see these early designs. The ways in which designs evolve is very neat to see. That rifle has so many moving parts, wow!
Who would have known they had drum magazines in 1851.
Ye olde high capacity assault rifle
All the comments saying stupid design is kinda annoying. It's interesting for sure and its an old design.
+ultor europae not really that unsafe. For the time period it's pretty advanced I'd say.
+ultor europae Compared to modern designs, sure, but we can only say that in hindsight because we know what works best
ok I'll give you that one. probably why this was the first variant lol
+ultor europae I know. But it's not a big deal, because this isn't a mass produced modern gun. It's a piece of history and engineering. Appreciate it for what it is.
+David Ridout believe it or not but there are guns that require you to put your hand in front of the barrel to load. They're called muzzle loaders.
The Cylinder looks like it took an awful lot of machining for that period of time.
+JinzoDefiler I don't think so. Cast parts are unable to withstand the high pressures caused by firing the catridge.
***** Bronze cannons had the advantage that bronze is pretty flexible. Cast Iron Cannons on the other hand had a tendency to burst without warning. This is the reasons why they started to reinforce the cast iron barrels with wrought iron rings to reduce the chance of rupture.
And what you said about car engines is wrong. Most car engines have a maximum chamber pressure of around 400psi. 9x19mm has a maximum chamber pressure of around 35.000psi (if you use the SAAMI testing protocol).
And even old cap and ball revolvers had chamber pressures between 6000 and 8000psi.
+JinzoDefiler they definitely had the machining capability at the time, it was just really expensive. go check out his video on the merwin and hullbert revolver. its got tolerances so tight that a vaccum forms between the parts
+AldanFerrox Casting can easily withstand the pressures associated with firearms. While forging and machining was the standard of the era, castings could easily withstand the pressure. Seriously, the millions upon millions of American small arms made during WWII were all castings, specifically lost wax casting. Ruger still uses casting as its main method of manufacture. Just an fyi.
I bet there was some sort of clip that held the caps and it was loaded as one piece with the caps captive.
+Григорий Александров I think this is backed up by the fact that the "pusher" is not a half-circle as you would expect if it was pushing caps, but is a flat edge that would push on some sort of strip backing with all the caps on it.
+Григорий Александров I was thinking a similar thing. A discardable paper cartridge, each time the hammer slams down, a cap is torn off and detonated.
But a metal clip like +Ryan resa is talking about makes more sense.
But how would you index it? The caps would somehow have to prevent the clip from rotating unless they are fired. We need a better look at the cap magazine.
M a g a z i n e *
Maybe you don't actually open the compartment to load it, but rather single load caps into it tube magazine style? Looks like they might be retained that way.
@pj jp kids don't do drugs
Very interesting as always
This comment wasnt noticed enough
But ian you're forgetting the best quality of this rifle. Its a rifle and a grenade all in one, it's literally the glock of rifles
Lucian Leesonja What do ya mean? Isnt glock extremely reliable and safe gun to use?
He must be confusing Glock with Sig, which will shoot if dropped of bumped wrong.
Its an old meme guys.
More like Hi-Point
@@glennelson8017 hi point guns don't blow up they don't cycle
Fascinating - it's wonderful to see that devices like this that were so technologically unconventional have survived to give us a better record of how engineering evolved to the models we have present day. Many thanks for showing this beautiful example.
I've watched allmost all your vids, but this one slipped through. Funny, because I can now finally determine I've dug up a cylinder for this rifle. Corroded, but still. Location is interesting, did they get exported to the Netherlands? Found inbetween ww1 cap badges, Lebel casings, 2cm Flak casings/ live munition, and flak88 stellschlüssel (time fuse setting key, marked, 4 different types!)... Very interesting spot, at most 2 feet of water over mud/rocks, up to 1/2 mile into a lake.
But aside from that, are there more designs like this, or was this a unique design?
Enjoying your vids, allways interesting to watch.
Mark van Werven I hope he sees this!
Yop, that comment need attention !
Gekkenwerk! Waar is dat ergens?!
Ive always dreamed of being able to travel to a former battlefield somewhere in Europe, like the area you found your treasures. I think it is beyond cool that people are still finding things to this day, its as if every single day we are getting back a little bit more of our past back, and everyone we find something its another story waiting to be heard
@@jamiebell314 come to Яussia, we dig up whole tanks here and get them back up and running
Makes my head spin just trying to understand the thing.
Simpanssit venyy ja paukkuu!
+UnclePutte the thing is easy to understand, the problem here is to understand why someone end up with such unsafe and complicated way to shoot 9 bullets! ahhahaha
+UnclePutte Not so much, but my sphincter tightens imagining myself firing it.
+UnclePutte It looks extremely complex but when you follow Ian through it, it seems like really the whole thing relies on a couple of sprung steel bits holding things in the right places.
+UnclePutte
Vertically?
I really like it when you show something as unique as this. Seeing all the weird things that were tried by gun manufacturer I wonder if anyone tried making a gun that use something else than gun powder as an explosive, like a liquid or a gas for instance, or even micro sticks of dynamite.
I love your videos man, you’re just such a chill dude and you leave no questions about any gun
That thing is Steampunk as fuck.
shdowhunt60 my exact words with the first 10 seconds
Never seen that type of firearm, wonderfully explained.....
Quite a complicated hard work just to develop a faulty concept. Anyway, a monumental wayward curiosity which makes a delight to look at. Thanks again, Ian.
Very interesting design. The trigger bar arrangement is straight out of a traditional musket, which really let's you see it's place as a transitional design.
As for the lack of fore end, I would think, like a revolving rifle, you would not want to put your hand up there anyway, least you get burns from the cylinder gap.
The Great War Channel + Forgotten Weapons Channel = TRANQUILITY
THANK-YOU IAN & INDY!!!!!
I see the words Awesome but Dangerous I click, I see a Forgotten Weapons video, I click. Must remember not to click twice on this video or it pauses.
I wrote about a rifle very similar to this one in a series of alternate history stories I wrote inspired by the Cochran Revolver.
In my case the turret or wheel as it was called was horizontal, not vertical, It also used an internal wheel lock type system so it was called a wheel gun. An arm crank on the bottom (doubling as a trigger guard) would be rotated one revolution which would rotate the turret, and cock the firing mechanism. Being a wheel lock and needing to be primed for each shot (the story was set before and during the war of 1812) the turret moved underneath the frizzen which kept the primer charge away from the other touch holes in the turret preventing chain fire. The turret could easily be removed and replaced with a fresh one (held 9 rounds).
if I'm not mistaken the caps it used was just like the ones that you used as a child , they were cap in strips of paper
this channel is awesome. all kinds of neat little fireams
K I L R O Y W A S H E R E
Really cool to see how engineers from different eras solved the same problems. Genuinely interesting even for a non-gun freak like me.
ThatOneHumanMale calling card :)
Great video, a proper forgotten weapon. Thank Ian!
Could it be that it was the shape of the percussion caps themselves that held them in place? After they were fired, they might have deformed enough to fall out. However it worked, that is a fascinating piece of weapon design.
+David Landon Cole I suspect that there's a little leaf spring missing, much like the ramming assembly is missing. Still, a very interesting design.
Work of art, absolutley beatiful.
This may have been designed to use the Maynard Tape Primer system, which was in use by the United States military at the time, specifically in their M1855 Springfield, and that would explain the confusing "percussion cap" magazine, and as it's a tape, would not spill out as a handful of percussion caps would.
These are really interesting. I enjoy seeing ingenuity of unique designs like this.
Looking at this thing makes me want to write a steampunk story. The over complicated but functional design is just the sort of thing that makes me think of anachronistic Victorian era technology.
+loahnuh It looks like the sort of thing you might see someone using in an episode of Trigun.
+loahnuh It's not really overcomplicated... the mechanism is fairly simple, the only bit that makes it particularly more complicated than a normal revolver is the cap magazine with how caps were placed automatically. Otherwise it's just a matter of the parts being on the side instead of the back/bottom of the gun.
+loahnuh Along the same line; imagine the submarine being invented before the propeller screw...
+Ronald van Kemenade the Drebbel (c.a. 1620) according to wikipedia, I remembered mention of a Civil war submersible watercraft that was manually driven, and built by the Confederates (the H.L. Hunley, wikipedia again), so not much of a stretch. Thanks to the old Carmen Sandiego cartoon for that one.
loahnuh
Amazing, thanks!
Actually, there lost two parts that operate procussion caps - small hook, screwed to lever, that extracts used cap and curly piece that hold next cap in place.
Here is nice photo of that pieces silvercore.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/porter-second-model-lever-action-turret-rifle-mid-19th-century-silvercore-training-3-jgp.jpg
I love the engineering behind this!
I'm a cap and ball nerd. This gun is amazing and I want it
Bid on it.
+ultor europae I'm Not sure if that's an actual question or you're suggesting I should shoot myself with a chain fire. So here are my answers: Hell no or go fuck yourself.
+ultor europae It's just a wall hanger, but you could probably shoot it but only with one firing hole loaded.
+DeWolf33 We can help with that. :)
+DeWolf33
I don't blame you!
But like he said there is something missing to register and depose the fired caps. The metal on that thing looks awesome though so I wouldn't be afraid to operate at half it's rated charge just for fun. But the loading mechanism is missing and also something to do with cap transfer. Oh and it was never mentioned what kind of special caps this thing needed since it slid them into place and didn't actually have any way to place it on a nipple. Brute force? LOL There had to be something else acting there besides the spring loaded cap revolver mechanism.
Maybe its me but the channel in the cap magazine looks a little shallow for traditional caps. What it all the caps were formed on a single curved strip, That would keep them all from just falling out. And when the hammer falls it just shears off the exposed cap from the strip.
I think you’re spot on
The cap that was just fired needs to be ejected somehow
Without weapons like this we wouldnt have modern firearms we have today and to see what one person came up with is incredable, people seem to forget how hard it acctually is to make a working firearm another great vid tho buddy!
I would enjoy more of these ...on types...actions not used....great history..example my great grandfather..had a 32 cal pin fire he was a civil war veteran...a night watch man and carried this type....thanks for your good work
It doesn't give me hope that people, according to comments, can't manage to understand how this works... other than that, beautiful piece of engineering!
Great video! The 'little' at 3:57 certainly wasn't fired with a 3:57!
This gun looks so natural for a steampunk movie!
Very interesting as always. Your vids are highly addictive, Ian.
For a video game a horizontal revolver version of this with a 'chain fire' option to unload all the rounds in all directions would be excellent.
Ahh so this is what the Sybaris is based on.
I wonder if the Warframe devs watch this show. A lot of the weapons have a distinct experimental feel, and you can match almost every one to a Forgotten Weapons video.
@@weaponizedemoticon1131 Yeah I think it's the Bronco that looks like the experimental flare gun that was in one of Ian's videos.
I am glad to find other Grindframe here ^^
Although not the best idea, it truly is amazing with some of the weapon designs they came up with in those days.
the complexity of the machining and design put this rifle into the "work of art" class. Only the most precise tolerancing of the turret and locking components would create the alignments needed to position the cylinders correctly. This movement is 20x the size of the tiny notches on a colt revolver cylinder making it 20x the strength and reliability.
it would really suck to be shot by a chain fire but the design is still beautiful.
I think the spring metal flaps above and below the cylinder gap were intended to seal the chamber to prevent flashover from the top and bottom.
That capping device looks like the Maker's Version of the Maynard System of a Roll of
Percussion Caps, on a Tape.
+Forgotten Weapons - I am a new subscriber, and am thoroughly enjoying your vids! This rifle engineering is fascinating. Thank you so much for providing another interesting and educational video!
If Swiss watches could shoot.
Gun Jesus does it with no ads.
this gun is crazy.
Don't you mean pressure. Spring tension pulls, spring pressure pushes. Thanks for your great videos.
Perhaps the percussion caps were of a special proprietary type for this particularly designed rifle which prevented the caps from falling out.
Quirky complex design. As for the percussion cap cylinder, there used by several types of caps, some in a thick lined paper or frabric. I think this was one of the few guns that used them.
Could the caps be on a continuous bandelier? So a strip could be inserted and engaged into the dog/finger in the cap magazine, not requiring any extra retaining mech.
This is my thinking as well. The video didn't show the bottom of the magazine area so well. The strip could be placed so that the part of the strip with used (burned/flattened) caps would be pushed there, but something would have blocked a full, unused cap from entering there.
I read this as "portal turret rifle" and boy was i disappointed
did you see an egg with three legs on the thumbnail? no, that was a gun.
Is there any actual historical documentation of a chain fire on a Turret rifle putting a bullet in the user or was it more of a psychological issue?
+J. Murphy I don't know of a specific documented incident with a Porter, but chain firing with percussion guns was a real issue, if not a common one.
Uncommon but real when the chambers lie next to each other as in a typical revolver. The sparks from the cylinder gap *can* enter into an adjacent chamber and if the bullet doesn't have a good seal, potentially could ignite the charge and cause a chainfire.
This turret gun however I think would nearly negate that possibility due to a few design factors:
1. Since the chambers are mounted radially, the openings are much further apart than a parallel chamber cylinder which would decrease the chance of errant ignition.
2. Again since they are radially mounted, the curve of the cylinder moves away from the direction of any cylinder gap sparks
3. The chambers that are pointed at the shooter are the ones furthest away from the cylinder gap sparks which again decreases and chainfire chances
4. The tension springs around the barrel I think also served to control cylinder gap sparks and gasses. They looks as though they have relief holes so that the majority if not all sparks and gas are directed towards the front of the gun, as well as the 3 releif holes drilled into each side of the receiver right at the cylinder gap.
5. Lastly, if by some miracle one of the rear facing chambers DOES go off, it would need to shoot completely through the rear of the receiver and stock, which I find unlikely. It probably end up blowing the side open and all the bits falling out. Maybe get a little hurt, certainly scary, but not deadly I would think.
Your show is a marvel!
every mention of this gives me 000000.9% in Royalties… :P
so, about 1%
@@rioghander2te well yes, but you're off by about .100000%
This rifle takes the word "obscure" to a whole new level.
The idea of actually firing this thing with one’s head next to that nice cylinder charged with 9 loads has a considerable pucker factor.
Incredibly complicated.
Though the man who thought it up had a first rate mind.
The caps are held in place with magic.
wow....now thats one unusual firearm.... thx Ian
An interesting idea, even with the potential chain-fire. Thanks for the insight to a unique firearm.
i haven't had a gungazm in a while and this one did it, i actually giggled and was quite astounded by the injin-uity in this rifle
If the user was afraid of chain firing, they could always load one, two, or even three chambers at a time. They could load the top three chambers prior to cocking it and neither would be pointed at the shooter in the event of failure. Since they would not have to load through the end of the barrel or place a percussion cap after each round, it would still be faster to reload than a traditional muzzle loader. It does defeat the purpose of buying a nine shot rifle, effectively reducing it to three repeated shots, but it would work.
wow, I alway did love a mule ear lock, but I never thought a side slapper would be used for a revolver though. its not hard to forge a mule ear lock.as I remember, the military tested the Cochran horizontal turret revolver against the colt and found it seriously lacking for just the same reasons you mentioned.it also isn't very soldier friendly.i also think your right.it is missing a part.thanx for the video.
The caps could be in a chain of string / paper with a knot at the end to secure it. Just load a new string of caps each time.
This gun is awesome and should be featured in more books and movies
Thank You, interesting design side note.
I wouldn't recommend ever holding a rifle with cylinder gap in front of the cylinder. Many people usually say that just because chain firing which isn't an issue but hot powder and breaking of cylinder locks that could cause the barrel and cylinder to become offset could be more dangerous albeit rarer.
As always a very interesting video. Well presented! Keep up the good work
It is missing two parts at the cap magazine.
There is supposed to be one spring(?) mounted at the small hole underneath the big one holding the cap magazine closed, which wraps around the front end (probably only allowing a squished cap to fall out, and a rod screwed to the lever with two screws (underneath the screw visible on the lever) that pushes into that magazine - most likely to scrape the used cap out when the lever goes forward, and guide the next cap (pushed by the magazine spring) into place on returning the lever.
Mechanically, very cool design.
I think it's supposed to retract then raise the nipple when the assembly is rotated, and thereby hold the remaining caps in place. When it is retracted the old nipple comes off and the new one slides down and is then caught by the nipple raising back out.
It's possible the serpentine loading lever assembly missing from the top had an extension along the side that held the exposed caps in place and prevented them from falling out. That would explain why it's missing- the assembly would have to be removed in order to open the side plate.
Oh! When I clicked on this I thought "turret rifle" meant something used from inside a turret. But I think my favourite part of FW is seeing all these mechanisms that were tried and didn't last.
Fascinating design even if it is dangerous
Might be some sort of break-off percussion caps, this would make it logical and simpler to load a set of caps as one piece...
And I really like the venting system that goes in four directions, allot of effort to direct that hot gas away from the cylinder ;)
That, is, freaking, amazing.
Really cool rifle...
I think the cap is held in place by its size, and when the hammer hits it, it smashes it so that it falls out, so the next cap comes into place.
I'd rather have a harmonica gun... with an under hammer for cool factor.
There is another problem with this kind of turret cylinder. The amount of propellant is very limited by the fact that the chamber is necessarily less that half the diameter of the turret. With a 'normal' cylinder you can actually make it quite long and, hence, powerful.
The caps for this rifle were premade in a semicircle.They were not like #11 caps for pistols, they lay flat on the touch hole thats why theres no nipple. I thinks that the problem a nipple helps seal the spark,but that flat cap sparks were going everwere
Getting Tinker Toys vibes from this.
Fascinating stuff.
that is a cool cap and ball carbine repeater thing
Ian, perhaps the caps were attached in a semicircular fashion? Maybe in a rigid string of pearl fashion were the strip of caps rotate through clockwise.
In the video description on Line 1 at the very end "they" is used instead of "there", and also what may be an error on line 6 where you typed:
"In addition, they and a wonderful design in which the entire side of the receiver opens up to make the action visible."
kind of seems like autocorrect :P
Cap and Ball pistol lasted until 1873 when Colt came out with the 1873 New Army. As for the Cap and ball revolvers, they could be converted to cartridge as early as 1866, Henry came out with a lever action rifle in 1860 and Spencer followed with one in 1861. So this rifle did not come out at the end of the cap and ball era, more towards the middle. Okay, it is either missing a small piece or it used a larger cap, that would not fall through until it was destroyed in firing.
Great review
And by the way, Great presentation!
They did not use single Percussion caps, but some kind of "Amorces" taped bands (small ignition loads in paper wrapping as known from toy guns). So nothing would drop out.Chain fire is kind of over-estimated, as long as you avoid using undersized bullets. Round balls are more prone to causing chain-fire, but elongated Bullets (which i would prefer with a rifle) with grease grooves make chain fire almost impossible if properly sized.
I used a turret rifle in fable 2 or 3. So cool to think its off a real gun from history
great video, i must admit i had no idea that such guns were manufactured.
aaand the way you said "little" at 3:55 really made me laugh. :)
A Maynard tape style cap would eliminate the falling out problem for the caps and explain the circular design...