The scope is very versatile in acting as a voltmeter and ammeter as well as recording any deviations in the output over time.Hard to beat the latest tech products.It reminds me of a mother that reared 15 kids and used water carried in a bucket from a well.Later one of her siblings installed a mains water supply, but she still went to the well for water insisting that it had served her fine in the past.Great video for the well users and those on the mains supply.
this is a great method and very informational. one of the first test when you have one towed in for a no crank or a battery going dead is to charge and load test the battery. this showed why. great video
While I'm grateful for a fancy tool at work, which can usually "guess" if there's an issue in a very short test, it certainly isn't a helpful to the DIY. This test is a way at home for me to find the fault, be it a cell in the battery that entirely craps out after a little time like this one, or a parasitic draw to be found. Never have I seen on TH-cam, both of these ideas brought together (And for years I've spent time here learning like some watch cable TV). Fancy tools can't compare to the knowledge of the process that this video brings.
Side note. I've noticed Chevy trucks put more surface charge on batteries than other trucks. They're hardly a Honda trying to save gas even from the alternator. Chevy's can fool the fancy tool at work (tool by midtronics). So if a battery tests bad here I pray the customer is smart enough or has enough dough to heed advice.
Matt, think you like the Vantage more than you care to admit ! ( LOL ) I have a Modis 4 channel Scope/Scan tool, so I can't blame ya! Your demonstration with two DVOMs is basically the same thing as using two channels on the scope, one for voltage drop the other for amp draw. Nice! Great for the guy who does not have a scope! Another great Vid!
I did something similar when I had a parasitic draw a few years ago. The odd thing about this draw was that it did not present itself when I measured, so I bought a Fluke 287 for the logging and graphing capability and a current clamp since I didn't know what kind of amperage I could expect. I let the setup log the current draw over night, and found a steady increase in amperage. It started out with only a few milliamps, but after a few hours it had climbed to about 1A. I located the draw to the radio fuse, but haven't taken the time to dig any further. It's not close to the top of my priorities so I have just kept the fuse removed. I'm curious about what I'm going to find that can cause such behavior when I finally get time to track it down.
Ozzstar Me neither lol. I was just goofing with the scope on a bad battery seeing if this method would work and I was shocked at actually "catching" the battery cell short out on its own. I was all like "oh hellz yeah, where's my video camera" lol
Schrodingers Box I do this exact testing all the time...I should have spoke sooner I suppose. Yes, more often than not, it is NOT a battery issue(some accessory still pulling current on the vehicle is far more common) but hell, why chase down a vehicle's entire electrical system(which can take days, believe me)before throwing the battery out of the equation. Remember, Keep It Simple Stupid, that should come first.
j georges Lol thanks bro, appreciate your support as always. It's pretty fun experimenting around with stuff and if it results in a new diagnostic approach I consider it a win!
Schrodingers Box Sounds like a good slogan for your channel instead of an elitist 2%'er thing? Much more welcoming connotation for new viewers. Slap it on a T-shirt, all yours.
***** Funny because I was trying to think of a spin on it to make it elitist. Believe me, if I start getting ETCG or Scotty type comments on this channel I'm shutting it down. "My car won't start- I think it's the fuel injectors. how hard is it to change a fuel injector?"
Schrodingers Box Oh it's gonna happen just a matter of time. How about a t-shirt with the abbreviation S.A.E. which stands for Supreme Automotive Enthusiast. Maybe a parody for A.S.E which stands for Advanced Super Enthusiast? I can do this all day.
Interesting -- I have pro-level battery testers but I will give this a try. Normally with only a multimeter I would go straight for a cranking voltage test. Recently I have tried doing cranking voltage and charging voltage checks via OBDII live data.
Matt, persistent lean condition, 95 Ford Econoline. New MAF, and 12" pigtail. wants to stall, runs better with connector off. I am commenting here because this video is recent.
Good stuff to know! I had a battery die in one year, and Batteries Plus blamed my alternator which also failed... didn't think a bad alternator would actually kill a battery, drain yes, but kill it??? Their batteries suck!
+PleaseDoNotLOL Hahaha I never bought a car battery from them but every laptop or camera battery I bought lasted all of maybe 6 months at best and it would be 3 months before I noticed they would lose maybe 30% of their viability.
Its 9 : 31 on the video and all you did was test a battery. Not parasitic on a vehicle. I know my battery is dead, I came to find out why, but that info not provided
Ummmmmm. No I was testing parasitic draw. The whole video is about that. What were YOUR results from the parasitic draw tests. which did you use? amperage to voltage drop?
@@SchrodingersBox perfect perfect perfect okay listen I'm a truck driver I work 3rd Shift I just seen this and I'm so glad that you have replied. I'm going to type it all out as soon as I can get a chance and I thank you so much for this opportunity to get to talk to you about my issue.
@@SchrodingersBox ok sir. I own a 1999 chevy z28 camaro. It has a built 5.3l. 6 speed car. 500 plus hp.... it has a powermaster 150 amp alternator .. I had a power steering line bust and broke that alternator about 3 months ago. I had it rebuilt by a local alternator shop... everything was fine ...I then ran into a issue with valve seals leaking..also had a comp cams trunnion kit that came apart and caused one of my Texas Speed chromoly push rods to break... car was down for a month... I got it back together..went to start it and the battery was dead...didn't think much of it. Jumped it off...drove to store for fuel..cut it off...got fuel...it fired right back up... brought it home. Tried to start it up the next morning...battery dead again! Didn't think much of it except..battery had a few years on it... so I bought a new one. Installed new battery..it fired right up..drove around a little...brought it back home for the night. Next morning..battery dead! Now it has my attention! Parasitic draw...gotta be. So I go buy a meter at harbor freight tools. It went up to 10 A... i watched yours and a few other you tube videos on how to do a parasitic draw test?? when I first started I was pulling 1 amp with a inside light on ( driver door opened) and then I pulled the bulb out and it went down to 0.10 which is 100 milla amps... then pulled the courtesy fuse and it went down to 0.04 and fluctuated between that and 0.05.. ( this was right after I had just started the car up ..turned it off...then disconnected the negative terminal to the battery...inserted the meter for testing...) I thought well ok I just need a wiring diagram? Well then I tried to put the car to sleep...I tricked the door locks and the hatch lock because my battery is in my hatch ... ( where the spare tire used to be ). I'm not sure if I waited long enough for it to go to sleep? I started checking fuses for voltage drop...found nothing!!! I then tested the alternator.. ( I hooked up the meter to the alternator with it disconnected and it showed that the diodes were good but my thing is.. on this video I watched.. his meter shows negative numbers and mine showed positive .444 But when I flipped the red and the black around on my meter I got nothing for a reading and that is an indication that the diodes are working right is what that guy said in the video? ) Well I checked my meter again After hooking everything back up and I was back at square one... so I pulled the courtesy fuse..I put it back in and my console light came on by itself with the console shut!! I said yes!! That's got to be it.. I pulled that bulb out... left the battery hooked up. Went to bed that night... CAR FIRED RIGHT UP THE NEXT MORNING !!! I was so happy because now I'm thinking 🤔... I don't have to keep disconnecting the negative terminal every time I go to work... WELL SIR... NOW IT GETS CRAZY 🤪!! I drove the car to work... WORKED 12 HOURS... when I got back to the shop ( to get in my car and go home...) BATTERY IS DEAD! IM SO LOST I mean my security system ( VATS ) has some type of issue...it will randomly show the security light on the dash and car will not do ANYTHING until I keep turning key back and forth alot.... Also ... I had to fix my BCM awhile back...it had to be soldered... I looked up to see if a BCM can cause parasitic drain and I read that it can? IM SO SORRY THIS WAS A BOOK LONG LOL... I JUST NEED HELP SIR . PLEASE!
Ok so I am having trouble discerning the issue. ultimately are you saying you have a 440mA draw? if so what circuit is it on as evidenced by pulling fuse for the circuit (not the bulb).
@@SchrodingersBox okay .440 was voltage.. it was when I was checking the diode on the alternator I think I misunderstood what I was watching on a different video and I was thinking it was something totally different. But I'll swap the leads around.. and that's when I got 0 .00. After watching that video it was actually a diode symbol that I was thinking it was a negative symbol that was on his multimeter so I was definitely confused and I apologize for that
What irks me actually is when I see obvious hazards on a car (brake pads worn to the rivets, ball joints looser than a 90 yr old man's hip, etc) and yet they want me to install an iPod adapter instead.
The second method was really not necessary to show here. And no, I'm not the biggest fan of scope, clearly because I don't have one ;) My wife is gonna find you and apply tortures since I've already started talking about money and scope.....
Schrodingers Box +messer7bc You really don't have to go broke, be an accessory to mahem or initiate a divorce to get a usable digital scope for automotive use. There are several inexpensive alternatives such as: www.ebay.com/bhp/usb-oscilloscope www.ebay.com/itm/2-Channel-PC-Computer-Digital-Storage-USB-Oscilloscope-/330731251939 There are also current probes and other accessories available, just perform a search.
patw52pb1 Yeah Pat is right. One thing I regret in showing off the new scope a few videos ago was I didn't really do a good job of indicating that a Vantage Pro is NOT the scope a DIY would likely consider. I hope I didn't scare people away by making them think they need to spend $500 or so. Nothing could be further from the truth. A good scope can be had for a fraction of that,
patw52pb1 The $20.00 scope says the maximum voltage is 5v. If I feed it 12v will that blow it up or cause it to melt down? Sorry if that's a stupid question.
***** It is possible to damage the input stage of that $20 USB scope with 12VDC, but even if it was not damaged, the signal scaling would not be accurate and the representative waveform would not be very useful. That is correct the maximum input voltage for that particular unit is 5VDC, however you can use 10x probes for operation up to 50VDC or use 10:1 or 20:1 inline attenuators to permit use on circuits with maximum of 50VDC and 100VDC respectively. Not a stupid question. www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&biw=1164&bih=786&tbm=shop&q=10x+oscilloscope+probe&oq=10x+oscilloscope+probe&gs_l=serp.12...344059.355184.0.360432.22.22.0.0.0.0.166.2825.3j19.22.0....0...1.1.64.serp..18.4.527.XQ4kNLfrzbs www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&biw=1164&bih=786&tbm=shop&q=20%3A1+oscilloscope+attenuator&oq=20%3A1+oscilloscope+attenuator&gs_l=serp.12...88799.91250.0.93793.3.3.0.0.0.0.154.363.0j3.3.0....0...1.1.64.serp..3.0.0.rBcQdrjpATE
We desperately need more individuals like you,especially this industry
Each of yours videos should have atleast 500 000 views. You are best DIY teacher ill have ever seen. Keep doing this. You are great.
The scope is very versatile in acting as a voltmeter and ammeter as well as recording any deviations in the output over time.Hard to beat the latest tech products.It reminds me of a mother that reared 15 kids and used water carried in a bucket from a well.Later one of her siblings installed a mains water supply, but she still went to the well for water insisting that it had served her fine in the past.Great video for the well users and those on the mains supply.
Lol great analogy man!
this is a great method and very informational. one of the first test when you have one towed in for a no crank or a battery going dead is to charge and load test the battery. this showed why. great video
While I'm grateful for a fancy tool at work, which can usually "guess" if there's an issue in a very short test, it certainly isn't a helpful to the DIY. This test is a way at home for me to find the fault, be it a cell in the battery that entirely craps out after a little time like this one, or a parasitic draw to be found.
Never have I seen on TH-cam, both of these ideas brought together (And for years I've spent time here learning like some watch cable TV). Fancy tools can't compare to the knowledge of the process that this video brings.
Side note. I've noticed Chevy trucks put more surface charge on batteries than other trucks. They're hardly a Honda trying to save gas even from the alternator.
Chevy's can fool the fancy tool at work (tool by midtronics). So if a battery tests bad here I pray the customer is smart enough or has enough dough to heed advice.
This was very helpful. Thanks for showing the two meter method too. Showing both methods makes this a very useful video.
Matt, think you like the Vantage more than you care to admit ! ( LOL ) I have a Modis 4 channel Scope/Scan tool, so I can't blame ya! Your demonstration with two DVOMs is basically the same thing as using two channels on the scope, one for voltage drop the other for amp draw. Nice! Great for the guy who does not have a scope! Another great Vid!
Billy R Yeah the vantage is tons of fun to experiment with man. Wow I can't believe I lived this long without it!
Schrodingers Box I don't know how you did too!
I did something similar when I had a parasitic draw a few years ago. The odd thing about this draw was that it did not present itself when I measured, so I bought a Fluke 287 for the logging and graphing capability and a current clamp since I didn't know what kind of amperage I could expect. I let the setup log the current draw over night, and found a steady increase in amperage. It started out with only a few milliamps, but after a few hours it had climbed to about 1A.
I located the draw to the radio fuse, but haven't taken the time to dig any further. It's not close to the top of my priorities so I have just kept the fuse removed. I'm curious about what I'm going to find that can cause such behavior when I finally get time to track it down.
That was a cool test for internal battery problems. Never seen that done before. Thanks
Ozzstar Me neither lol. I was just goofing with the scope on a bad battery seeing if this method would work and I was shocked at actually "catching" the battery cell short out on its own. I was all like "oh hellz yeah, where's my video camera" lol
LOL i hear ya, one of those youtuber moments we get! take care
Schrodingers Box I do this exact testing all the time...I should have spoke sooner I suppose. Yes, more often than not, it is NOT a battery issue(some accessory still pulling current on the vehicle is far more common) but hell, why chase down a vehicle's entire electrical system(which can take days, believe me)before throwing the battery out of the equation. Remember, Keep It Simple Stupid, that should come first.
what a smart and an easy way to diagnose you keep me hocked to your channel like crazy glue matt, thanks for all ur ideas much appreciated my friend.
j georges Lol thanks bro, appreciate your support as always. It's pretty fun experimenting around with stuff and if it results in a new diagnostic approach I consider it a win!
Awesome video. Another diagnostic method for the gray matter tool box.
***** Dang it, that would have been a great name for this channel lol!!!
Schrodingers Box Sounds like a good slogan for your channel instead of an elitist 2%'er thing? Much more welcoming connotation for new viewers. Slap it on a T-shirt, all yours.
***** Funny because I was trying to think of a spin on it to make it elitist. Believe me, if I start getting ETCG or Scotty type comments on this channel I'm shutting it down. "My car won't start- I think it's the fuel injectors. how hard is it to change a fuel injector?"
Schrodingers Box Oh it's gonna happen just a matter of time. How about a t-shirt with the abbreviation S.A.E. which stands for Supreme Automotive Enthusiast. Maybe a parody for A.S.E which stands for Advanced Super Enthusiast? I can do this all day.
Schrodingers Box
"Your engine is both alive and dead without diagnostics"
Thanks for the upload, Matt!
I like it when you play with your scope. Hahaha thanks for sharing. I can't wait to see some more tips with your vantage.
Michael Herbert I play with my scope as often as possible but it's more fun when I film it and put it out on the internet for everyone to watch!!
Interesting -- I have pro-level battery testers but I will give this a try.
Normally with only a multimeter I would go straight for a cranking voltage test.
Recently I have tried doing cranking voltage and charging voltage checks via OBDII live data.
Great video Matt.
Matt, persistent lean condition, 95 Ford Econoline. New MAF, and 12" pigtail. wants to stall, runs better with connector off. I am commenting here because this video is recent.
Thanks Matt.
I like the part where you explain how to loadtest a battery without special tools.
Cute channel name. Does it come with the cat? Unit price? Good luck
What kind of amp clamp you have?
I have several - snap on, pico scope, hantek…. It’s really more a matter of the amperage and jaws than the brand.
Which one did you use in the video? Reading looked very accurate.
@yessiprz23 in this video I used a vantage pro with a snap on 20A low current probe.
@@SchrodingersBoxModel number of amp probe please, or any others you recommend need something that’s accurate. Any information is appreciated.
Another good bit of info.
A fantastic new work =)
Pablo A Are there any you don't like, lol?
In your all videos They are great.I like people who use the brain to give explanation to the problems =).
Greetings.
good one, thank you...
Good stuff to know! I had a battery die in one year, and Batteries Plus blamed my alternator which also failed... didn't think a bad alternator would actually kill a battery, drain yes, but kill it??? Their batteries suck!
+PleaseDoNotLOL Hahaha I never bought a car battery from them but every laptop or camera battery I bought lasted all of maybe 6 months at best and it would be 3 months before I noticed they would lose maybe 30% of their viability.
Where is all the haters gone? No thumbs down?
Gregory May Scotty must be on vacation lol
Its 9 : 31 on the video and all you did was test a battery.
Not parasitic on a vehicle.
I know my battery is dead, I came to find out why, but that info not provided
Ummmmmm. No I was testing parasitic draw. The whole video is about that. What were YOUR results from the parasitic draw tests. which did you use? amperage to voltage drop?
Easy cheapskate fix for the acc power left on is an inline switch to cut power on the acc power wire.
I need to talk to you desperately sir
I’m listening…
@@SchrodingersBox perfect perfect perfect okay listen I'm a truck driver I work 3rd Shift I just seen this and I'm so glad that you have replied. I'm going to type it all out as soon as I can get a chance and I thank you so much for this opportunity to get to talk to you about my issue.
@@SchrodingersBox ok sir. I own a 1999 chevy z28 camaro. It has a built 5.3l. 6 speed car. 500 plus hp.... it has a powermaster 150 amp alternator .. I had a power steering line bust and broke that alternator about 3 months ago. I had it rebuilt by a local alternator shop... everything was fine ...I then ran into a issue with valve seals leaking..also had a comp cams trunnion kit that came apart and caused one of my Texas Speed chromoly push rods to break... car was down for a month... I got it back together..went to start it and the battery was dead...didn't think much of it. Jumped it off...drove to store for fuel..cut it off...got fuel...it fired right back up... brought it home.
Tried to start it up the next morning...battery dead again! Didn't think much of it except..battery had a few years on it... so I bought a new one.
Installed new battery..it fired right up..drove around a little...brought it back home for the night.
Next morning..battery dead!
Now it has my attention! Parasitic draw...gotta be.
So I go buy a meter at harbor freight tools. It went up to 10 A... i watched yours and a few other you tube videos on how to do a parasitic draw test?? when I first started I was pulling 1 amp with a inside light on ( driver door opened) and then I pulled the bulb out and it went down to 0.10 which is 100 milla amps... then pulled the courtesy fuse and it went down to 0.04 and fluctuated between that and 0.05.. ( this was right after I had just started the car up ..turned it off...then disconnected the negative terminal to the battery...inserted the meter for testing...)
I thought well ok I just need a wiring diagram? Well then I tried to put the car to sleep...I tricked the door locks and the hatch lock because my battery is in my hatch ... ( where the spare tire used to be ).
I'm not sure if I waited long enough for it to go to sleep? I started checking fuses for voltage drop...found nothing!!! I then tested the alternator..
( I hooked up the meter to the alternator with it disconnected and it showed that the diodes were good but my thing is.. on this video I watched.. his meter shows negative numbers and mine showed positive .444
But when I flipped the red and the black around on my meter I got nothing for a reading and that is an indication that the diodes are working right is what that guy said in the video? )
Well I checked my meter again After hooking everything back up and I was back at square one... so I pulled the courtesy fuse..I put it back in and my console light came on by itself with the console shut!! I said yes!! That's got to be it.. I pulled that bulb out... left the battery hooked up. Went to bed that night... CAR FIRED RIGHT UP THE NEXT MORNING !!! I was so happy because now I'm thinking 🤔... I don't have to keep disconnecting the negative terminal every time I go to work...
WELL SIR... NOW IT GETS CRAZY 🤪!!
I drove the car to work...
WORKED 12 HOURS...
when I got back to the shop ( to get in my car and go home...)
BATTERY IS DEAD!
IM SO LOST
I mean my security system ( VATS ) has some type of issue...it will randomly show the security light on the dash and car will not do ANYTHING until I keep turning key back and forth alot....
Also ... I had to fix my BCM awhile back...it had to be soldered... I looked up to see if a BCM can cause parasitic drain and I read that it can?
IM SO SORRY THIS WAS A BOOK LONG LOL... I JUST NEED HELP SIR . PLEASE!
Ok so I am having trouble discerning the issue. ultimately are you saying you have a 440mA draw? if so what circuit is it on as evidenced by pulling fuse for the circuit (not the bulb).
@@SchrodingersBox okay .440 was voltage.. it was when I was checking the diode on the alternator I think I misunderstood what I was watching on a different video and I was thinking it was something totally different. But I'll swap the leads around.. and that's when I got 0 .00. After watching that video it was actually a diode symbol that I was thinking it was a negative symbol that was on his multimeter so I was definitely confused and I apologize for that
That's a dangerous car...if owners of such cars don't have the money for proper maintenance, well they should take the bus and leave the car at home.
What irks me actually is when I see obvious hazards on a car (brake pads worn to the rivets, ball joints looser than a 90 yr old man's hip, etc) and yet they want me to install an iPod adapter instead.
The second method was really not necessary to show here. And no, I'm not the biggest fan of scope, clearly because I don't have one ;)
My wife is gonna find you and apply tortures since I've already started talking about money and scope.....
Schrodingers Box +messer7bc
You really don't have to go broke, be an accessory to mahem or initiate a divorce to get a usable digital scope for automotive use.
There are several inexpensive alternatives such as:
www.ebay.com/bhp/usb-oscilloscope
www.ebay.com/itm/2-Channel-PC-Computer-Digital-Storage-USB-Oscilloscope-/330731251939
There are also current probes and other accessories available, just perform a search.
patw52pb1 Yeah Pat is right. One thing I regret in showing off the new scope a few videos ago was I didn't really do a good job of indicating that a Vantage Pro is NOT the scope a DIY would likely consider. I hope I didn't scare people away by making them think they need to spend $500 or so. Nothing could be further from the truth. A good scope can be had for a fraction of that,
patw52pb1 The $20.00 scope says the maximum voltage is 5v. If I feed it 12v will that blow it up or cause it to melt down? Sorry if that's a stupid question.
*****
It is possible to damage the input stage of that $20 USB scope with 12VDC, but even if it was not damaged, the signal scaling would not be accurate and the representative waveform would not be very useful.
That is correct the maximum input voltage for that particular unit is 5VDC, however you can use 10x probes for operation up to 50VDC or use 10:1 or 20:1 inline attenuators to permit use on circuits with maximum of 50VDC and 100VDC respectively.
Not a stupid question.
www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&biw=1164&bih=786&tbm=shop&q=10x+oscilloscope+probe&oq=10x+oscilloscope+probe&gs_l=serp.12...344059.355184.0.360432.22.22.0.0.0.0.166.2825.3j19.22.0....0...1.1.64.serp..18.4.527.XQ4kNLfrzbs
www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&biw=1164&bih=786&tbm=shop&q=20%3A1+oscilloscope+attenuator&oq=20%3A1+oscilloscope+attenuator&gs_l=serp.12...88799.91250.0.93793.3.3.0.0.0.0.154.363.0j3.3.0....0...1.1.64.serp..3.0.0.rBcQdrjpATE
Third!