***IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:*** It's important to note that throughout my rant, I'm not calling out teachers or schools that advocate for "hard work". I'm by far NOT an anti-hard-work artist. I too work very hard and I put everything I have into what I do. I'm aiming to call out schools or influencers who push the "if you aren't destroying your health for your career then you'll never amount to anything" type of extremist attitude. Know as well that my aim has been and will always to be unite our artistic community, NOT divide it. I will never stand behind the idea of separating our amazing online art community into a "good teacher/bad teacher" alliance. I don't believe in alliances, they're divisive and overall destructive. Lastly, I have mentioned a shortlist of schools that I supported, but please don't regard this as an exhaustive list. I was speaking spontaneously and just whipped a few names off the top of my head, but there are MANY unmentioned schools that I completely support publicly and stand behind proudly. Thank you!
There's work and then there's *ugh* work. Good 'hard' work is effort with purpose that you can take pride in after it's done. The right kind of work can be sustained for surprisingly long periods of time, and can even be therapeutic. Something you normally enjoy + tremendous pressure = *ugh* work A repetitive task you're forced to do, devoid of purpose and heaven forbid devoid of ethics = *ugh* work Something you normally enjoy but while having to second guess and cater to the opinions of idiots = *ugh* work Something you normally enjoy + being treated with daily disrespect = *ugh* work Something you normally enjoy + ZERO validation and minimal remuneration = *ugh* work In proper and fair context, work is measured by the value of your efforts, NOT the level of suffering you personally endure. I know artists whose bitter wives want them to give up arts and work in a paint store so they can suffer as much as _she_ does at her job, and she won't have to suffer alone. Militant finger-wagging is contagious, and the road leads right back to the old life that we left entire countries to put behind us.
There are good schools, hard to find, but honestly, the best schools that might teach you something aren't even good for beginners. I don't know man, through my experience I know you can only rely on yourself to learn. I agree with everything you have said, or at least, almost everything. When i say yourself, I mean, we have to make our own curriculums and learn from the true best.
College is bad. No matter what subject it is. I was in STEM...and I realized that the college was more into becoming a business than actually making sure the materials are taught and passed down to the next generation. I always took the time to really learn the materials and try new things. However, the thing was I made Bs and Cs. As on the projects Cs and Ds on the regular tests, A on the final. At a certain point I didn't care for GPA. I will admit it did make it hard for me to get my first job. Luckily I switched from physics to software because if you have the projects to show, they can't throw you out the door too fast lol. You are 100% correct man. I love art, I love sciences, I love software, I love physical activity...My goal in life is to hopefully bring it all together and teach others to see in a unique way. I want to let people understand that it's all the same. I when I was young I wanted to be an artist. Then a physicist. Then a Computer Scientist. I'd always use my art skills as the basis to learn the materials. I realized we are all doing the same thing just with different tools at our disposal. That's why I break things down into 1. What am I trying to accomplish/build/represent 2. What are the foundations and fundamentals of the subject that must be followed. 3. What tools do I need to use and learn how to use to get me there. 4. What can I build/accomplish/represent with these tools and fundamentals right now? 5. What succeeded and failed in this iteration of building/making/representing something? 6. Look for more tools and make sure my foundations/fundamentals are solid. then repeat. Tools.... Math: Quadratic Equation, Difference of 2 cubes, Integration by parts, etc. Physics: Various equations representing the world Software: Languages like Java, C++, Python, etc. Art: Charcoal, Paintbrush, Digital Pen, etc. I when I am learning I never think "this is what I need to know for a test" I learn by having a vision of a complete product and using the tools that are available to get me there. I want to paint a portrait, what are the tools I need to get me there? I want to build a software program what tools do I need to learn to get me there? I want to test something falling, what are the tools that I need to learn to get me there? There is me, the huge block in front of me, and the finished product that I want to make in my head. To destroy the block I think about what tools can get me passed it.
@@RatusMax You're one of two kinds of people: those who need a teacher and a school system, and those who learn best as their own teacher. You're the latter, as am I. When I was finishing my bachelor of fine arts in music, I saw nothing but hoop-jumping. Just prove you can do certain things. Learning from your teachers was optional. If you saw something you didn't already know, good. If not, take a nap. Much of the time, I felt you were not there to learn, you were there to *pass*. I know other people who can only learn if they take a course under a teacher. They need the structure set for them, they need to be nagged to do the homework, they need to be coached, to pass one exam after another and to be told congratulations when the program is completed.
@@gimmiethejuiceLol I didn't even attend my college graduation. I will tell you this, when the pandemic happened, I picked up digital painting and pulled out my college books and started reading them. Without that stress on me, I am seeing things in a different light. I am not sure if it's because I see the world differently as I got older or I am not constantly trying to pass a test. All of the stuff I found confusing and difficult all just makes sense.; In my 20s I was the same. I thought passing tests and doing what I was told was the way to go. Then my life turned to a living hell for a year and threw me out of it. I was under high stress and that's when I stopped caring for my gpa. It was nothing great like a 3.45. I switched from physics to computer science and graduated with like a 2.71. I knew if I finished physics with that degree I was screwed but CS and projects in my portfolio would lead me to a job. I loved how I could do any subject in CS and software. If I wanted to I could always go back to physics some later time in a higher degree. Use my job as references over the GPA. I like the stress of time being put on me to complete a task but some things a time constraint can't make the process of learning/finishing any faster. Software comes out broken because people are impatient and want a product out to justify the money spent so far. Rule #1 software NEVER comes out on time. lol. So time constraints, are there as a guide rather than a whip. Those using it as a whip will ship broken products. Software and Art in my eyes are exactly the same. It takes a certain type of creativity to make solutions. I was listening to FZD and It's crazy how similar the process to get the work done is.
When I tried to join a digital media class I was told by the person "You sure you want this? You need to realize that this job just doesnt fit someone who's in their 40's". The teacher literally said you can only do art if you're between 16-39 like what?
LOL never heard of that even Professional Bodybuilder have a longer professional carrier than that and this depens on your body which of course ages but ur brain is not included atleast not that heavy in that wtf
Truly. That comes from a very cynical point from them maybe because they feel they still haven’t made it or didn’t get their dream job. It’s just part of their own paranoia which again it could be a possibility. What’s possible for you is just to do it rather than not :::)
According to a program I attended, which teaches young adults about professionalism and corporate America, for some reason older people are looked at as someone who will demand more pay; because it is assumed that they most likely have been in the industry long enough to make such a demand(regardless of actual experience in it). That and they usually just have more bills to pay, will probably be closer to retirement than a fresh graduate etc. Corporate sucks major ass
THANK YOU, as a designer student who graduated 2 years ago a can tell you that: 1) TH-cam helped me more than my actual teachers. 2) Most of the teachers dont give a shit and are only there for their paycheck or to talk about how awesome they are. 3) Diplomas are overestimated. 4) Art/design schools never prepare you for the real world.
I 100% agree. I attended Rebecca Guay's Illustration Master Class and learned more in one week than an entire semester of art curriculum at a university, where the teachers are even more cynical and out of touch.
This happens not just in traditional schools, I don't know how many students I met that got in Game producing colleges and got crushed because they didint learn anything, I am a self thought 3d artist and I am glad I had the courage to go search what I have to do to be an artist, and study in a healthy way, and now getting good feedback by professional artists, even living in a family and country that thinks working with art in any way does not give you a future and thinking diploma is everithing, thank you so much for your videos, they helped me a lot in this past months since I started studying.
I'm a 25 years old broken, discouraged and burnout visual development artist whose dreams got crushed and now suffers from anxiety. I wasn't like this 3 years ago but now thanks to my art school, i have a lot of mental challenges to overcome if i want to carry on my animation career. Adam i approve your message.
i feel this on so many levels, art school broke me and i’m only 24. i used to draw a lot back in high school, but now after having 5+ projects due at the same time each week, one after another of many pieces due at once, it just tears you up. now i’m 100k+ in debt and not even doing what i used to love as a career…
I just stumbled over your comment browsing the comment section and just wanted to send you a big fat virtual hug from artist to artist, I hope you will recover and find your strength again, and carve a way for yourself to do what you love without sacrificing your health and happiness. Having had a burnout myself not too long ago I'm heartbroken that you had to go through something like this so young. I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart.
There seems to be an epidemic among animators, artists, and programmers in schools and certain workplaces/studios, where the deadline and output is valued more than the individual's well-being. As someone who deeply values education, and especially values teachers who take time to consider the nuances of how students learn, rather than chucking knowledge and assignments at them... The idea of passionate students driven almost to tears because of the unreasonable demands of their school... Kind of angers me.
Lol i worked 12 hours yesterday, probably will be the same tonight, end of month invoices are coming up.. 3d animation is my dream job but I honestly miss all the *time* i had working in fast food.
no, programmer actually has to be logical, it's the part of the discipline, the biggest problem for us is procrastinating that is facilitate mostly by art as the subject
@@The_Horse-leafs_Cabbage I disagree on the workplaces part because you don't seem to understand the world of work and our complaints, the reason why programmer results and deadlines are valued more than anything else in the workplace is that programmers are not artists we are logicians we actually need DEADLINE without it we won't code, we are paid not for creativity but for time, ethically we are should not think creatively because the project and goals are clear because it is simpler and less tiring than thinking more even if we are able because there is a field for these skills and definitely not part of the programmer, in contrast to creative services that do not have clear boundaries, they are indeed required to think conceptually. from null to exist, they are paid to be creative and unique so the value of every artist is dynamic and strange, the fatigue of art workers is not on energy but on the brain, they can pour it digitally or not it's up to them because both have different levels of fatigue. don't talk about hobbyists, they are special people whose standards can't be used in general by everyone, and also startups because they prioritize speed over management sometimes they don't pay their workers, your criticism must be based on real and general things.
@@werren894 I will admit my initial comment was overly condensed, especially in regards to programmers. It does leave the impression that I think of deadlines as a net evil for all parties involved. I apologize for my... Miscommunication on that part. To better elaborate my full thoughts in regards to programmers being overworked, I should've focused more on the "crunch culture" that's notorious, especially in game development companies. As you point out, boundaries are important for programmers, tho they certainly have multiple uses for artists as well. Again, I apologize for the nuance that was missing in my original comment.
I went to art school hoping to get into digital mediums, when I got there I asked every traditional art teacher how to break into the digital world; to expand my learning and skills knowing that arguably the traditional mediums are much harder to support yourself and build a career. Not to mention my passion resided in concept art. Over 5 years I went through the motions of university studied and got pretty good grades being top of my class many times, while my teachers constantly tried to discourage what I wanted to achieve of course working in digital mediums. Every so often I even had a teacher who would come talk to me, just to tell me how concept art is the scourge of the art world, that there is nothing in the world left to create because concept art ruined it for every one. I now how many skills that I will never use such as print making, high art found object sculptures. And still never learned how to paint digitally, I never finished my degree instead I dropped out after one day my teacher told my I should have gone into a certain course load that teaches digital mediums that was horribly named as to not really explain what it was or what it was about...I've spent the last 3 years teaching myself 3d and sculpting instead. what a waste.
Yeah fine art and entertainment art are two very different branches of art. You don't go into one branch think you'll learn the other. It seems to me your teacher don't understand concept art at all. Concept art is used to explore ideas for a game or a movie or an animation etc. It's often times unpresentable. It's so far away from fine arts and the whole "self expression,,, change the world,,, communicate with people about deep ideas,,," It's a skill used in the production pipeline, not a direct means of self expression.
This made me cry, I feel like an absolute failure of an artist and dreamer when I don't turn in assignments on time, or when I do badly on quizzes because I had no time to study because it was spent doing other classes homework. It's so disheartening and makes me question whether or not if I'll be able to survive and be independent on my own.
mood…i remember having a final portfolio class early in the morning then another class right after, and in the end i failed the second class because i was so tired and drained from the one before that one and all the assignments i had
@@ashwaqgaming4821 Very true! I've done that with most of my semesters. Part of the deal though is to be assertive to the college and/or family that you want to limit the amount of classes you're taking (and, to compromise to people that want you to have at least a couple of classes, I recommend taking a workout or yoga class alongside the art class, as they usually provide little to no extra homework and it helps encourage a healthy fitness habit, at least from my experience).
Glad you spoke up on this topic, I had a few friends going to art schools and they were verbally and mentally abused by the teachers. Not only that but the material and teachings they had to pass exams was practically useless to get a job directly in modern industry. Now compared to my friends I was lucky to land a concept job on the side with horrible art skills. But just 1 year in I've learned more from colleagues and teachers the like of you Mr. duff then they had in 4 years of that school. It's disgusting to see how much money these schools demand and in return give fuck all. Sorry for the vulgar language but it's a horrible thing.
Same happened to me. I am still in student loan debt, but gradually getting some stuff done. Only started working in the film industry this year and I can definitely agree that I have learned more in a couple of months working than I did in my two years of studying.
some of my teachers when i was in art school had youtube channels that was basically the classes, the other half didn’t care or worked you hard to the point where you learned nothing. if i could go back i wouldn’t go to college period, it’s tasking, draining (both mentally and from the wallet), and nothing is taught that would help. hell some projects i felt like i did way better than my teacher only to have him tear me down because it wasn’t what HE wanted…
@@PocketKanin Pardon me for replying to 3 months old comment. That teacher is definitely jealous of u, "Younger than me and already better than me?! I must tear u down to make up for my unresolved bitterness😡" This is textbook display of power trip, abusing their teacher's status to put down young aspiring students. These dinosaurs are out of touch with the modern art industry, cooped up in college and teaching outdated things. So in a vicious cycle, they unleashed those poorly hidden jealousy on talented students. Seeing more and more students are aware of this gives me hope, here's me wishing rotten art teacher's got what they deserve🤞
It’s not just teachers, but fellow students who will crush your enthusiasm in critiques, and with jealousy and spite. People posturing and bullying eachother to jockey for position in the art school hierarchy. Because so much of academic art is smoke and mirrors built on egos
I couldn't agree more. I started drawing very early and was able to draw tolerably at the age of five. And then my mother sent me to art school. Then I did not understand what was happening to me. I now know it was burnout, anxiety and procoastination. Everything I loved to paint was banned. It was impossible to draw characters, drawing in the style of comics was akin to a crime. For almost a year I have been painting dull still lifes, fucking apples and vases. As a result, I ran away from exams and hid from teachers and parents all day. I was probably on the verge of a nervous breakdown. At the age of 10, for god sake!
@- Astor - am i supposed to pity someone that could not appreciate education because they wanted to draw cartoon characters. If you're burnt out at school, i guess work is going to be a big shock to the system.
@- Astor - considering I'm a portrait artist and tattoist I'd say im fairly serious. Pretty good knowledge of human anatomy, decent watercolour exteriors, would like to spend a bit more time with oils. Unfortunately I'm from Britain, art hasn't been taught here for about a century, so took me a while.
@@keycuz your experience does not magically invalidate other people's struggles. You may have a decent grasp of human anatomy, but, evidenced by what you have posted, you seriously lack in human interpersonal communication. Has that also not been taught in Britain for about a century?
Sadly this is not only the art education system. I went through 5 different universities across 2 completely different countries and unfortunately the "you make it or you're not worth anything" is also the state of the education in computer science. I litterally had to relearn to rest after my degree. I wish this will change in the future. Hopefully. I can only wish for people to not burn out.
Haha, I've heard many people argue on behalf of learning CS online/by yourself as well. How did you find going to school for it? I've been considering teaching myself a couple languages recently to make more interactive art.
@@ericmonaghan1231 IT is totally doable to learn by yourself if you have the motivation and discipline. Imo there are all the documentation and community help online that no physical school will ever match . But unlike art, companies won't consider your application if you don't have a degree, or they will pay half the wage compare to someone who has the paper.
@@ericmonaghan1231 You need to decide first where you are going then figure out the path second. You might need schooling you might not. I recommend doing self learning and trying a class or two at a community college to help discover where you want to go.
This is why I never went to school around here. Algonquin college. All the people I know who went into that program either turned into a "zombie" or lost their passion for animation. Many drop outs. It terrified me so much so, that I took upon myself to learn. I recently started my own production company. Took me 10 years, but I still love it all.
Algonquin Animation grad here (9ish years ago). it was rough. Literally the only upshot was that doing professional animation work doesn't feel so hard in comparison because I can leave work at work.
The Animation Program at Algonquin is super hard, but if you take it, you will have an extremely high chance of getting hired at one of the 5(+?) studios in Ottawa. It's hard, some times its unfair, but the teachers work very hard to make improvements on it every year. The success rate in my opinion is VERY high.
@@roysalibi Yes, it is. I wasn't trying to discourage anyone from taking the program. I just knew it wasn't the right climate for me to grow. Shout out to everyone who got through, and can get through it tho.
The animation program does burn people out. It was a sign of pride to torture yourself. I was in the TV program. We had a deadline ethic, and it was hard. But the animation program was bruuuutal. I watched many burn out. Hated animation because of it.
I remembered being the first year of art school and everyone got their work stepped on..literally...thing is the lect didnt even give us detailed instruction, and we were doing silouhette, say a mug, sometimes she said theres no holes, but then on another part she asked why was there no holes to make the items recognizable...
I wish my teachers taught us how to write up and understand contracts when doing freelance work. You'd think learning how contracts work in the art industry would be important when doing such courses.
I graduated in comunication design 17 years back at Germany. I had good experience, my teachers used to say - remember, the real teaching starts when you leave school and learning is longlife process, we only can teach you the basis, but it is good one and you can build on it. I am still thankful. And I didn't pay any money for my education, because at Germany (and lots of other EU countries ) education is free. I wish everyone should have this possibility.
This speaks to me on so many levels. I’ve been out of school for several years now, but I had our teachers verbally beat the hell out of me because I showed up pushing pixels instead of pigments. I got so bad that one of my teachers refused to critique me simply because I had presented a digital piece of art. To this day I’ll bring the story up because it hurts the same amount as the day it happened. It replays over and over in my mind. And when I hear the silence no likes or follows despite the hours I pour into my art, it is that professors voice that plays in my head again. I’m in my 30s now, and I am still healing from those wounds. I’m angry that I didn’t get the base information I need it to make artistically sound digital art. I was savvy, I was hungry and dedicated. Even if the teacher didn’t work in my medium, anything I learned traditionally I would’ve definitely applied to my digital art. I was never even given the chance. There’s no reason for me to still be this upset about it, it’s stupid really, but I don’t think a lot of teachers realize the kind of hurt and lasting impressionThey make students. These teachers are in positions we want to be in. They are the people we look up to. They are the people we think have the key to it all. And even if they don’t, who else do we have to turn to? Thanks for posting this and I feel so much better. This world is harsh and crazy making some time, but it is nice to hear that there’s somebody else out there who feels the same way, and who is a teacher no less!
It’s nice to see another person in a similar boat to me. I sadly am a through and through digital artist and no good at well, physical art. Yet what stresses me the most is how alienated I feel compared to everyone else, it’s primarily the ridiculous mindset the school’s curriculum has caused to teachers and students simply, highlighting the so called superior nature of traditional media. I understand that knowing how to draw on paper or canvas is helpful here and there but it makes everything so constrained. It really feels like my schools art programs, heck even the so called “digital” art program are designed to weed out digital artists like me. A little context on that digital class, we’re going to be animating on paper for some reasons despite we have fully complete access to the Adobe creative cloud and a ton of programs worth trying out, and of course we do it it olden ways… Anyways there’s like only one other student I know in class whom works digitally on IPad, and I feel like less than 40 kids in my school of like 900 or so are like me who work digitally. With how my highschool works, each and every one of us; potential filled aspiring artists, are treated as no good nobodies. Thanks for sharing your perspective on this too Mitsukai.
Very well said! I have the same problem on social media thanks to algorithms and other factors, but my teachers were focused on digital products so this is an issue I genuinely don't understand. Art is art, no matter if it's traditional or digital!
This rant reminds me of my friend with whom I still have contact with. When he moved to a more prestigious and affordable university, he constantly complained to me about the insane amount of homework he gets and some of the professors who aren't exactly teaching, just handing him tons of work over and over, to the point that he stayed up late frequently (and drank too much caffeine) just to get the work done. He did this for four years until he graduated. As a result, he suffered from health problems. While he did get a job, it wasn't as great as he had hoped (he quit that job too because the culture there is crap and people relied too much on him, doing things that's out of his job's scope, merely because he graduated from that prestigious university) and despite four years, his portfolio still needs much more improvement where he wants to go. I will NEVER, EVER understand why this is a thing, even in work culture.
This is such a pleasure to watch you get angry for something I never dared to be angry myself. I still remember those sleepless weeks in Art Academy trying to cope with amount of work, blaming myself I'm not good or talented enough. I only now realize that nobody tried to teach me a damn thing... They only demanded more work to be done. No wonder I hated art after graduation. I would have never thought this system was to blame, cause I alwayd thought I should have worked harder.
I've cycled through 3 different industries in my lifetime, commercial photography, business and computer science. AND, let me tell you they are all like that. It's the entire educational system and the way that they treat students and the expectations of corporate life. I detest it, because I'm burned out on all of it because it all feels the same.
YES. as someone who wanted to be an artist, but then went to computer science for career prospects and debt in a recession, computer science is also the same. I had good teachers, and i had teachers who just piled on work just for the sake of it. Ended up at one point hallucinating because there was too much work and suffered from sleep deprivation. It took years for me to recover from burnout, and a 7 year haitus from doing any art because I just couldn't do it even with all the time and supplies in the world. I realized that in order to do art, really needed to care for my health and learn to enjoy life again.
Worst takeaway I got from entering an art school is "don't use reference" when what I needed the most was practice and strengthening of my skills. The teachers only wanted us to draw that they deemed artistic, instead of respecting what we wanted to draw. Killed my passion for art until I graduated and slowly started picking art back up. Wasted so many years and took alooot of detours.
I recently dropped out of my school after 2 years of studying for an animation degree. It was, to put it bluntly, a terrible experience. I cannot say for sure if they were genuinely trying to promote unhealthy lifestyles but it certainly felt like it, telling us things like "oh yeah prepare to get no sleep whatsoever". When I first enrolled it just felt like another thing in life I had to go through, but after seeing how little I was actually learning, and how much I was suffering I just couldn't take it anymore. It drained me of my desire to make art at times, and I absolutely hated the idea of having to put my own health before finishing a project that ultimately was meaningless. Lost many hours of sleep, had many discussions with my family and my art had not progressed at all. I took a leap, and my art made more progress in 4 months than it ever did in those 2 years, and while I still don't have the confidence to post consistently I will continue to work on it so I eventually make it to where I want to be. Thank you immensely for all of your content Adam. You have been a huge help to me and to many of us in the art community. You're truly a blessing.
This all resonated with me. Finished my art degree last summer and feel like I wasn't really taught that much. I'm now one of those burned out discouraged people. My drive to make art has dwindled over the last couple of years which is heartbreaking to me.
[Work retail 8 hours + 30 minutes cycling + 4 hours self learning art] per day is much less destructive to body and mind than going to art school. The system is a mess.
The way literally *all* the points you mentioned apply to my university hits so hard, that it hurts. It always - without any exception - is 98% learning on your own and occasionally getting useful information from dozens. We get our project feedback in the form of a table with mostly copy/paste sentences that barely is helpful at all. This isn't teaching, it's just monitoring your self-learning. I actually was hella excited when i first started studying , but it stood stagnant at this "Here's the assignment and some guidelines. Choose something you wanna do for it and have it done by XYZ" crap that i stopped showing up to campus events or even listening to the weekly (twice) lectures. I get that those assignments ARE important, but they literally are the only thing we get. I easily could do this on my own - without any expensive school - with MUCH less stress involved. At this point it's nothing more than an extremely expensive and watered down feedback every 2-3 months for me. When getting ready to do my daily drawing session (not study related), i remember "Crap, still gotta do the project" and just immediately lose all motivation i had built up for what i usually love and want to make a career out of. Instead it is "Here, have this design document done by XY" and "You have one typo in your file structure" or "Your project exceeded the file size limit by 5 MB, you gotta communicate that beforehand". At this point, it literally is burning me out already. I thought so many times about quitting this school that i've lost count. But then, there's this "What are you gonna do instead?" question. Eventually having a cancelled study in my CV - being told that it would be "The worst thing!" doesn't help it at all. It's a neverending cycle of recurring depression. When your course includes a word like "Art", you also are supposed to properly TEACH your students based on their works. Giving them proper feedback and examples based on that. I'm not learning anything new there at all. Hell, i just want to make cool stuff..
Reading through this reminds me so much of my Graphic Design course. You'd think since high school you choose what you enjoyed the most and specialise in that, it'd be better right? WRONG! It's just the never-ending burnout of having to create something under time pressure in a hireable quality. What's more is it's SO discouraging if this is what real life work is like, then of course I'm going to end up depressed because I've basically trapped myself in a hole of repetitive 'make something or else you face consequences' kind of lifestyle if i continue this degree. I guess that's what graphic design is. Designing for the purpose of others. But if this was art and there are still issues like this, i just don't understand how there is so little acknowledgement on how someone learns to create. It will always be individualistic so really, education should NEVER place a curriculum that enforces to go a certain way because that denies the essence of what creativity really is... Anyway man, i hope you're doing well! Just a random commenter supporting you in these hard times, i hope things will work out for you later in life as well. A motto of my uni is: 'if you dont like it, change it.' For me i read it as doing things your own way, the way you can only do. But time and deadlines are what supresses it, and i acknowledge this is a preparation to reality, so there comes the point of what is more important? Yourself or the end result. Ofcourse society will care for the end result and theres not much you can really change about it. But as the creator, only you can manipulate the time you spend on creating that to benefit yourself.
all of that and more! i don’t even remember when classes weren’t just “do this project, here are the guidelines, name it right, have it 1920x1080, and it’s due XY” the only time i think i learned in the classroom was during life drawing when the teacher looked at your work while you drew and pointed out here and there about shadows….
This is most universities in a nutshell. So far I've had 2 mental breakdowns due to an overload of assignments and having to read roughly 100+ pages every other day composed of new concepts and theories I've never heard of before (the other days that I don't have those reading are 30-40 pages instead), and I have to be able to remember them all. I also have assignments on top of that...it's rough, and since I'm not majoring in art, time left over is used for that instead (commissions and other freelancing gigs). I'm interested in my major and the info but man it really gets draining.
It's definitely not most universities. If everyone were reading 30-100 pages every other day, it would amount to up to 120,000 pages of reading material during the course of a bachelor's degree, an equivalent of about 200-500 books in 4 years. Most students don't even bother to read like 10 books, and I personally knew students who finished their university degrees without finishing a single book, even in technical specialties like engineering and specialties like law, only learning via bits and snippets from the internet. P.S. I'm not saying this to devalue your point, but rather to clarify that while studying can be a very stressful experience, it's not impossible in any way. What's really terrible is the fact that even in rich countries like the US and Canada students have to have a job to sustain themselves and dilute their time and energy between studying and working for money, which is not in any way beneficial to a student's experience. P.P.S. For comparison, my grandpa got his education in the Soviet Union, and not only he didn't have to pay for his Specialist degree (Bachelor's+Master's degree in Soviet Russia was called a Specialist degree), he was actually paid by the government to study full time. And he wasn't rich or ''well-connected in the Communist ranks'' or whatever. His parents died during the Second World War and his adoptive father was a simple firefighter. And no, he wasn't receiving a scholarship or something like that. He was paid a stipend for studying and anyone who had good grades could receive stipends and get money for studying full-time.
@@awesomebearaudiobooks By "this is most universities in a nutshell" I meant to say the factory process in which you're intaking a bunch of information only to regurgitate it without really having the time to critically think about it. My case was just an example but not the norm. Even amongst my friends, they don't nearly have to read the amount that I do (different schools and majors). I wish I could just lightly glaze over the readings (which I've done for a few) but my exams specifically want us to quote the words of the authors I had to read (I haven't tried looking for spark notes versions of them, I just assumed they didn't exist for what I was reading, since most of it are scholarly papers/dissertations and articles from hailed sources within the field). I'm happy since I'm learning a lot, but it's draining spending hours reading materials I have only an interest in (I don't plan to make a career out of my major, but it's a "safety net" of some sorts to keep my parents happy). There are other courses that do not require significant reading on my end that serve to kind of balance everything else though (i.e. foreign language courses and the one art course I took). Also that sounds amazing regarding your grandpa (minus him losing his parents, must have been rough). I'm on a scholarship rn which serves as a painful reminder as to what may occur if I let my grades sink, but I'm lucky to have one tbh.
I never had breakdowns like I did in college. Real life is easier than college. They make it harder and more stressful than it needs to be and to the point of where it's actually damaging. I was in stem not art but all the departments have the same problem. All this stress they put you through, I've had really hard jobs and they were still easier than being in college. It didn't prepare me for tough jobs it just caused serious breakdowns.
Thank you Adam. I'll probably never be lucky enough to work with you as a student. But as someone in his mid-30s who sidelined an art career/education to be a wage slave, and has decided that maybe it *isnt* too late to start doing what I love, your videos provide a humanity and empathy that make me feel less alone and hopeless. I cant tell you how important it is and how much I appreciate it.
So I'm 36 yrs old (gonna be 37 on Nov 2) and I went to school for Graphic Design because it was the only program that offered something with art at my college. And for me, growing up without a computer built into my hand, it was really rough trying to grasp all the technical aspects. And in my school, they didn't teach you how to use the tech, or where to find info on how to do alot of things. Just what certain things were and it was up to you to figure it out. Imagine paying a mechanic to teach you how to fix your car engine, and they hand you a box of tools, then say figure it out. Odds are it's not gonna be correct. I thought schools were supposed to teach. If I was gonna have to "figure it out" myself, why am I paying them thousands of dollars and giving them years of my life? Plus they would drill into us with the knowledge that if your not the best of the best, your not gonna succeed because art can be a cut throat industry. I didn't even want to be a Graphic Designer. I wanted to learn how to switch from traditional art to digital art so I can become self employed doing the art I wanted to do. When I realised that the piece of paper didn't matter because I was gonna be my own boss, i left the program. Two years gone, seven grand in debt, I feel like I'm starting over at the bottom again trying to get my shit together to become something I thought wasn't even possible several years ago. So it really helps someone like me to come across your videos that have so much unconventional positivity, and it helps to keep my head up and keeps me pointed in the right direction. One day I hope I can meet you just to say Hi, Thanks and to shake your hand for being a light in what seems to be an endless void of a dark uncertainty. Thanks Adam! Your art is freaking amazing bro. Keep it up. Cheers friend!
Hey Adam, I want to thank you for everything you do. You've inspired me so much, not only as an artist, but as a person. Listening to you while falling asleep is something I can look forward to. I even did a college presentation on you to my peers and they really liked you! I hope you have a wonderful day/night.
i often think about how art as a commodity has affected the way the general public views and values art. their opinions on how long it should take, who's allowed to create it, and what it should or shouldn't look like. i wonder sometimes how culture got to be this way, so consumer-minded, and oh boy you just made a lot of good points to help me understand that! is it even possible for art as a career to work without it being industrialized? should art be industrialized at all? is there a way to have balance in its industrialization? this is why i struggle with the idea of art as a business or a product. i'm for it, and find joy in supporting artists for their great efforts. and i hope to make some money myself from my own art someday. so i can't be against it fully. but i also hate how it well, takes the art out of art and turns it into a product that then gets non-artistic, consumer, businessey rules applied to it.
The reason I avoided getting a (America) B.A. in college for art, even though I love it, is because I saw how much art history classes I had to take and how HUGELY loaded my last year would be. It didn't seem worth it, on top of doing work at an actual art museum. I knew I wouldn't get what I needed from it. So I did English Literature and Language, and it has served me in other ways, and I'm only now getting back to art. Mind you, college burnt me out. Reading SO much literature, a lot of it boring, and then writing long essays about subjects I didn't care about and only to write what the professor wanted, not what my actual opinions were--I hated it. I barely survived. I didn't pick up a book for almost 5 years after I graduated. The entire primary school and extended education system is outdated and a meat grinder, they want your money, they don't care if they get you prepared for your area of interest.
I honestly think I have PTSD from art school. I sometimes wonder if it was the biggest mistake of my life. It was definitely the stupidest financial decision I ever made by far.
i'm gonna flippin cry. Art school totally destroyed me. there's always a ton of students so they swat them down like flies by throwing an immeasurable amount of work at them. I had to quit after one year. But I regained my love for art and am doing just fine on my own right now! thanks for talking about this
I never went to university, because I'd heard about this 12 hour a day work ethic situation, and thought "well shit, I can't do that." My artistic motivation comes in boom bust cycles, where I'll have some days where I put in 16 hours of work, then others where I can barely stomach warm-up. The crippling mountain of student loan debt that college would entail was the final nail on the coffin there. I guess I'm kind of an outsider artist. All of my training I've done by myself, relying on advice from folks like Proko, Mark Brunet, Ethan Becker, and yourself along the way. The knowledge ya'll are putting out is invaluable for people like me, who don't fit in to the 60 hour work week mold, and don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spare for higher education. So thank you!
I got burned out of my "art" program after a few years. I'm happy someone understands "practice practice practice" dolled out by my professors just isn't teaching. Or "look up some TH-cam videos" isn't teaching. Thanks for this. If my fellow students can hear this I'm sure they'll be glad someone finally understands.
Thank you so much for this video, Adam. A little while back I saw a video of a famous YoutTube artist who's done incredible work for triple-A games. He had advice on becoming a concept artist, which was: "don't even try." He said that the chance of getting into that work field is nearly impossible and that everyone should just focus on other positions that are also satisfying and pay the bill. Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that there are more than just concept art jobs out there, but you shouldn't try to demotivate anyone who's really excited about pursuing this career. I told him that along with that you don't have to work day and night to make it into the industry and that I was a great example of that. Never went to university, tried other studies instead (never finished them), and just before the end of 2019 I got contacted by a theme park art director, asking if I wanted to help them with designs in Poland. These included not just conceptual designs but also, character art, elevation designs, detail designs, you name it. So I did, not knowing anything about theme park design. I could tell that the uploader of that video was very sour after reading my comment. Ignoring my arguments, he only said something along the lines of "Well, I've got a lot of fans on this channel and I'm a hundred percent positivity so yeah, you're wrong." This guy is such a big influencer on this platform and when I read all those comments I was just filled with anger. Everyone was thanking him for his advice and basically made their mind up to quit on their dreams. Some even said that they felt more shitty than before watching his video but that it was the truth that they needed to hear. Can you believe that? I also pointed that out to him and he just ignored it. So I decided to let it rest and unsubscribe to his channel. Thank god there are still honest and caring people like you out there, Adam.
@LunitsI was very relieved to not hear his name coming by when Adam was naming his list of positive art influencers. But yeah.. it was Trent Kaniuga who I had this argument with. Not to say all of his videos are bad, on the contrary, but this one really screwed with my brain. I can still hear his voice in my head, which totally sucks because I'm without a job since June, got back into my depression after seeing that video and at the moment I'm seriously thinking of just changing career paths instead. I really wish I'd never seen it..
*THIS IS INSANELY GOOD* i tell you I made the mistake of watching these “motivational videos” who bully others into being “better than others” and mark others who didn’t achieve “HUGE THINGS” as “unworthy” and “lazy” the HECK!!!! As if you are not “THAT GIRL” than you are a “MISTAKE”!! I LOVE YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!! AS AN ARTIST WE NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU NOT THESE SNAKES!! THIS WHOLE WORLD IS CORRUPTED AND IT MAKES ME SICK!! WE HAVE A GIFT GIVEN BY GOD NOT HUMANS SO WE DON’T OWE THEM ANYTHING!! Period!! Hope to see more of these videos soon!!
Man this video feels so... nice, like a warm hug, thank you so so much. I'm 22 and I've been studying at an art school for the last 5 years and it feels completely useless. All of the improving I've been getting in my art is just by self studying during summer break, whenever we're back to classes I don't even have time to draw and experiment because I'm just full of (mostly written) assignments and exams that don't really help at all. It's discouraging. We don't even get advice on portfolio (only heard that word once in all of this years) or how to get work at the current art industry (or even for those that want to expose on museums, the most traditional stuff). Hell, we don't even get help in drawing or painting classes, it's just 'as long as you turn in your work it's all ok', I end up passing with flying colors without even knowing what I did right or wrong, or what should I even focus on improving. I'm tired. Luckily by some miracle my passion for art didn't die at all but oooh boi my mental and physical health sure took a beating haha
I'll finish this semester and drop out, keep studying on my own + aiming to work as a teacher in elementary or high school. I also come from a teachers family so it's kinda ingrained in my dna as well. Even with that awful experience and multiple breakdowns the future does look a little bit more promising. Sorry for the long comment, I kinda needed to rant ✨
It feels good earing a professional artist talking about this problem, thank you. When I got into artschool in Paris in 2014, I was so happy and motivated, it felt like a new beginning for me, a new life. The enthusiasm came down quickly: a ton of work (including homework) merely impossible to complete on the first year and hearing the teacher (a lot of them really bad or not made for teaching) say that you won't be good enough if you don't manage to do the work they gave you. I succeed to pass the first year but, oh boy, the next 4 years where hard. I still was really motivated, discovering day after day how incredible and exciting the arts where, that's how I really got passionate about cinema and I'm happy about that. But has you said in your video, the administration people where real f*ckers who only helped the few best students, the ones that will make the school shine, the others we where left on our own. Some teachers where great but for the majority, it was "practice, practice and practice" again has you said. I felt however that I was gaining skills and was a bit naive believing in the school saying that with a diploma, we would get a job at the end. After school, I realized what the reality of the art industry was. I realize how everything the school told us was bullsh*t. I got my diploma but I didn't succeed to get my dream job because I didn't have the level required. And I was not the only student in this situation. I basically just paid for a diploma without gaining the skills to have the junior job. I felt destroyed realizing all the time I've putted in this school for not much. Today, after 2 years of unemployment and small jobs, I'm still working on my skills to obtain my dream job but I am starting to lose hope. I know that I will never stop drawing or painting but It feels so hard without an great level or contacts in the industry.
Hey, je suis dans une école spécialisée à Lille, existant aussi sur Paris, leur mentalité est complètement opposé si jamais ca t'intéresse, je serais curieux de savoir dans quelle école tu étais, ca a dû être un enfer...
@@hiddenfrost4079Salut ! Il s'agit de LISAA. Je ne dirais pas que ça a été un enfer non plus. Nous n'étions pas "maltraité", pas violentés verballement ou choses inssuportables de se genre comme ça peut arriver dans certaines écoles. Mais disont que beaucoup de choses essentielles sur l'industrie ou les compétences requises ne nous ont pas été enseignées, le tout en nous faisant croire que c'était normal, et à la fin ça a été un grosse désillusion. Il y a avait clairement une façon non avouée de gérer les choses de la part de l'administration (comme je l'ais dit sur les excellents élèves qui avakent constament attention et éloges des profs ou administration), des profs qui étaient là clairement parcequ'ils étaient amis avec d'autres (certains étaient vraiment incompétents), ils éxigaient un stage pour valider le diplôme mais n'aidaient en aucun cas les élèves pour le trouver (sachant à quel point le milieu est difficile, je trouve ça un peu honteux), etc... que des choses de ce style. Des amis ont été à 3DNewedge et après avoir écouté leur experience, que ce soit en terme de pédagogie, d'exercices, de professeurs, j'ai réalisé après mes 5 ans à LISAA à quelle point cette dernière école était à la masse. J'ai ma part de responsablilité dans ma situation aussi évidemment mais au prix oû sont ces écoles, j'éstime que c'est à eux de faire ce qu'il faut pour leurs élèves soient apte à travailler dès la sortie. Je ne serais pas capable de te dire si la mentalité est différente à Lille mais je serais heureux d'entendre ton experience.
@@antonydias8503 Eh bien en ce qui concerne la recherche de stage on ne va pas se leurrer, c'est pareil partout, j'ai fais plusieurs écoles différente (d'abord l'ICAN à Paris, et mtn e-artsup à Lille), c'est vrai qu'on a pas d'aide externe en soit, c'est à nous de nous débrouiller, (à paris j'étais en Game Design donc c'était un peu différent, depuis je me suis reconvertis en Game Art). Pour le moment question art, je n'ai que Lille comme expérience, je me suis lancé alors que je n'avais jamais dessiné de ma vie, je m'intéressais beaucoup au numérique et à la 3D en fait, jte dis pas l'angoisse de début d'année quand tu vois des gens avec un niveau bien différent x) Mais d'un point de vue pro, l'école à toujours été top niveau éducation, on apprend pas des choses débiles et inutiles comme reproduire bêtement ce qu'on voit ou pratiquer bêtement sans réfléchir non, en réalité, on est enseigné par des pros indépendant qui bossent soit seul, soit dans une petite boite indé, généralement dans le jeux vidéo et l'illustration. Donc on avait vraiment leur expérience, les bases à apprendre, déja sur le plan traditionnel (donc modèle vivant, dessin d'observation bonjour), mais très rapidement sur le plan numérique, on attaquait la 3D dès la première année, ainsi que le dessin en numérique. Bien évidement on nous disait qu'il fallait continuer de bosser de son côté et de pratiquer, mais ce n'étais pas forcé, plutot du genre "dessinez quand meme un peu en dehors des cours, sinon ca suffit pas" ce qui est tout a fait logique. Mais voilà, avec cette école, j'ai pu passer en quelques mois d'un stade où je ne savais pas dessiner à un stade où je me débrouille vraiment pas mal, je ne pensais pas faire de si gros progrès, rattraper des années et des années de pratique juste en observant et analysant les méthodes de travail, chercher à comprendre comment faire d'une telle manière, et pourquoi ect.. Bref, quand j'entend que dans certaines école, il peut y avoir ce genre de discours de la part de profs, ou ce genre d'enseignements inutiles qui n'apportent rien au milieu pro, je me demande vraiment pourquoi rester. Malheureusement ca t'as fais tilt trop tard, au bout de 5 ans, tu aurais pu gagner du temps, mais c'est la vie, on ne peut pas avoir 2 expériences de vie simultanées en une seule. Je paye certes entre 6 et 8k l'année, mais au moins j'ai pas le sentiment de me faire arnaquer car je sais que ce sera vraiment utile, on est en 2ème année, et en seulement 2 semaines sur un groupe de 6, on est capable de sortir un jeu en 3D, complètement modélisé, texturé, codé ect, même si ce n'est qu'une genre de démo, c'est super gratifiant. Voilà voilà, j'espère que tu trouveras ta voie et que tu sauras quoi faire par la suite et je te souhaite bon courage !
This hits really hard for me personally, as someone who flunked out of a (once) great traditional art school in Chicago. While part of me was a bit too young to really take it as seriously as I wanted to, working so much just to afford food and bus fare for the week, on top of commuting hours every day to get to and from said school, having hours and hours of extra course work, on top of my mental and physical health taking such damage that I'm still recuperating like 4 years after I dropped out. I gained 120 pounds and got into such a bout of depression it kinda really ruined my life for a while. It wore me out, it strung me along, some of my teachers were amazing but the school itself was crumbling apart toward the end of my stay. I could tell it was from the top-down administrative level and I felt so disillusioned by art and the industry by the time I left, especially considering how many teachers looked down on my work for it still being "too anime" (even in college lmao). And now I'm still trying to learn to love myself, and learn to have fun with art again. I lost that fun trying so hard and breaking down, and now I can barely draw without feeling worthless and depressed (especially due to a lot of stuff talked about in the video, how some people are so elitist about it and how I feel compared to my former peers). Thank you for this video, it really means a lot to me. This is.. exactly what I wished I had in 2013 when I left for college, because this would have convinced me to continue learning on my own at my own pace and doing it the right way: healthy, and consistently. I just hope I can still turn it around and undo that damage and learn to love my work and myself.
I feel that, I left college because to afford the one I went to I needed to work two full time jobs. I did fine for a bit but halfway through my second semester I just couldn’t keep going with the amount of work was on my plate, I went for Psychology at a really good school for it so even getting into the course was hard but it was just too much. I went for psychology because since I was young I pretty much was told being a doctor or a banker or a landowner was the only way to have a good life in this world, that I’d be a failure if I stuck with art or even worse if I kept writing. So I gave a lot of that up when young because when your told by everyone you look up to that it won’t work you end up believing it, if you trust someone enough what they say is truth at first glance. So I studied really hard throughout middle school and high school, top of my class, finished my AP Psych course with a 130 because of extra credit, got every single question correct on both final exams. But I wasn’t exactly happy, sure the actually knowledge was amazing but the work was a lot. College was that but ten times worse and for every single subject I had. I could maybe handle one subject worth of back breaking work but all of them? I’m surprised anyone can handle that stuff, because it made me have a mental breakdown where I couldn’t get out of bed for a month because even that felt like too much. Sometimes it does feel like this world will try to kill you one way or another, even when it shouldn’t.
@@barnovai Oh it's all good man. I'm not entirely absolved of fault, since there were some bad decisions on my own part (not including just going to art school in general though... lmaooo) so I just gotta keep learning to do stuff with a better mindset.
fantastic advice and a fair rant. the culture of art education and art jobs are horrible in a lot of communities. they just add more and more pressure to young artist and trying to turn Artists into Factory workers. "if you cant keep up, that means youre weak" attitude. where people brags with each other about who works the hardest and whos the most underpaid and who got sick the most because they work 20 hours a day. basically killing young artist's spirit. its tiring and disgusting talking to people with that type of view towards art thanks for talking about this Adam
I remembered being in uni for art...sleeping at 3 am..and final year we got so little sleep...finishing work like about 4 am, went home with my housemate, sleep till 6...woke up and back to work all day...little sleep...the uni killed my love for art for a while..i got amxiety parts of life there, the worst part was depression, months of not going to class, just in bed, barely eating by forcing myself... I slowly get back to art after graduating, find another major to continue my studies. Still drawing now, but on my own time, not anxious, not comparing myself to others (sometimes).
Idk if you will see this comment but maybe some 20 somethings will relate since while I don't consider myself a digital artist I draw and a lot of my work requires art skills but first and foremost I am a film maker. Anyway 3 years at film school now I can say I have really learned anything. I transferred to the program after two years of game and digital media production. I haven't gotten any practical experience none zero. No one taught me on set lingo how to navigate in the field jobs any of that. Stuff that you need. You see in film we use a lot of particular vocab and jargon to quickly communicate things. A lot of this is for safety. Like acknowledging moving large equipment, wires, bathroom breaks you name it. I had a leg up on my peers from youtube and doing my own client work but I gathered a team of my peers for a shoot and was floored that no one had learned any of this stuff. This is really dangerous first off and I shouldn't need to be filling in for the education they should be getting. I had hoped I would at least get a film for my thesis. Nope. I just need to write a paper. I spend a lot of my time now teaching my peers to help get them ready and since I have work coming in regularly I try to give work to peers so they can get the experience. I cut my course load down and now I only do two classes a week. Three days a week I go to class and watch old movies and TV. I have three papers per class and that's it. I've seen most of these things, star wars, bride of Frankenstein classics. Despite having vast knowledge about films I learned nothing about making films. I have vast knowledge about religion and sociology stuff but again nothing that can help me. many of my peers graduated and are now floundering in the corporate world because we are in NY and the school has connections to big business type companies. It feels designed to just sift out the art from artist. It blows my mind how little they've cultivated the creativity of students. I know I am really lucky to have gotten experience in the field but I feel crappy knowing the people I meet in college are falling out of the field into something else. Or they double down on a masters and look tired all the time. You really learn to make movies by making them. I spent three years watching them and I can tell you it will never make you good at making movies it'll only make you good at checking your phone. Won't lie if I could go back in time I'd definitely tell myself not to go 120K in debt for something you already do. Most sets I work on don't even ask for a degree. In fact no one has asked if I have a degree.
my college professors in art school (community college) were every day professionals doing a side job as a teacher at night. One teacher gave advice about the graphic design industry was to get into it while in college. Get into a print business and you'll learn the ropes. I learned more from on the job training than I did in college. College had creative projects but they were not realistic to what the real world was in the graphic design industry.
Respect. Your carry the voice of generations of artists who have slogged through the traditional education system and plopped out the the other side, wondering what happened. I've wanted to continue my education, but the thought of going back into a brick and mortar makes my skin crawl. I will be going for programs like yours, Proko, Oatley, etc. Love your content and words.
I'm not in fine arts but in game dev and I can echo this entire thing. I've been failed by so many Uni's and have seen so many of my peers burn out because of the horrible work loads and elitist attitude. I remember I quit the day I quit uni in my heart. I went to a math teacher, who was good and who I looked up to. I went to him for advice cause I was struggling with the workload (15 courses, all with mandatory, graded assignments that all factored into your bachelor's, all in the first semester). I had to work to support myself as well and I was literally running out of hours in my day. His response, without even blinking, was to tell me that complaining isn't going to help me, that if I was serious about my education I shouldn't work on the side, and that some people just weren't cut out for it. Fuck him. I started learning from home, taught myself game dev through online programs and a self structured curriculum. In less time than that dumb degree would have taken me to get I've worked up a portfolio that got me hired.
I’m so glad that this video came out. I’m on my last semester sadly in illustration and well… “I can only get better if I keep doing practicing” as I have hear a million times. On my 4 years I have learned more by myself than at college. I feel so sad that we graduate and we can truly only start “learning” when we get to work, if we can get there with the lack of motivation or actual understanding of the area we want to be at.
i really appreciate hearing this kind of validation from someone who teaches, the school system is absolute bullshit and particularly in the US, drives young adults into a lifetime of debt before they can even get their feet on the ground. thank you for advocating for actual self care over career and for the reminder that we as humans are more than just our productivity or our conformance to societal standards 💙
It took me a while to land a great job as a 2d animator and I had to struggle for long time doing freelance gigs left and right getting paid in basically sand. hearing true pros talk their minds on this unjust system gives me both hope and inspiration to do right by myself.
That's cool that you got a job in 2D. Do you mind if i ask what you're doing? I might have this illusion that it's a super niche thing and a difficult gig to land. GJ
@@ericmonaghan1231 Oh sorry for the late response i live in holland so time zones. I work as a 2d animator. Its very hard because 3d is the big thing nowadays. But I'm thankful there are companies that see the value of traditional animation. Animation in general has many niches and the animators are given little to no respect at all in really big companies.
Everybody is out for a paycheck. Greed is everywhere. What pisses me off is I for one always wanted to be an art teacher but spent my time learning my crafts and other things, but for me to try a teaching position means I would have to go back to school to obtain some sort of "teacher " certification and BS. Many of us out here would make great teachers.
Find a way to teach online. I have seen many start ups in my area to teach children art. They are little art studios because public schools cut the funding in the arts. Sadly only the upper class can afford to send their children to these studios. Many people are going online to learn too because they may not be able to afford to go to college for art. If I had TH-cam and all the resources there are now back in the 90's I would have saved myself tons of $$ & not be constrained by the debt. I have a BFA and it doesn't matter anymore. It's just a piece of paper and corporate ad agencies don't care. They only want to see your portfolio & if you network correctly you might get hired. You can't share your years of experience or they pull the ageism card on you and only want young fresh out of college students because they can pay them less. When there is a road block(such as certification) I suggest make an alternative path. Screw the system.
Having come up as a freelance artist and having worked the past 16 years as an illustrator/concept artist as well as just about every other job in the field I can say that your talk about the hours thing is very true. But, for a lot of us in the beginning, especially the freelance side, a lot of us were just doing everything we could to survive on meager income in order to pay bills - in that start of the career I probably worked 12-16 hours a day just to survive month to month bills - my skill as an artist just wasn't bringing in profitable clients in any way. That's the hardest part, working in order to survive and on top of that improving your art to the point where you can dig yourself out enough to be able to escape that hole where you're just doing anything to make ends meet. For me personally, and others I knew at the time, we just stacked clients and lived unhealthy lives because we couldn't afford to survive otherwise. I think if there were any tangible way to be a Leonardo working on a 6 month painting without income, that'd be ideal, but I never heard of a path that allowed for something like that while giving you some live-able wage. Anyway, I think that's likely a large part of where that work til death attitude is born from, it's a very negative place to be and it's terrible advice for anyone to do, but I think so many artists, like me, couldn't find another path when we were initially struggling in the field. Balance is the key to everything, burnout and stress is just brutal and I hope in the future there is a known path forward for people entering this space as a working artist. Hope you're well!
It can be tough. The anime industry is a good example of how rough some artists have it. My love and appreciation goes out for all of you who are struggling
I had a grin on from ear to ear. THANK YOU for saying it. The amount of soul draining bs we had to deal with was ridiculous. Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
Thanks a lot Adam. I notice that my school is really just doing what you're describing as "lazy teaching" and I had to do my own research on learning about art and it's industry. It's honestly surprising that a school in Canada is as bad as schools in my country Indonesia. Channels like yours, Bobby Chiu, FZD, and more just motivates me to keep going. I really hope I can meet you someday and buy you and your family a pack of donut or two. Cheers!
Omigosh I could go on about this. I was in a college graduated and everything four years in computer animation. Nothing about taxes, nothing about charging for art, nothing about marketing... Nothing about setting up stores or building a business, absolutey nothing and then even the fundamentals weren't even properly drilled in... Even now I'm still taking online courses to learn about things they should have taught me. So now I feel like I'm scrambling and trying to catch up. I also teach and I have to explain to my students what to expect and I have even had another teacher yell at me because I was advising them not to go to college but go to a trade scho or take online courses you're so much better off! Its sick and cruel what they are doing
AMEN!! Went through the Canadian College system for art and yes 100% as you say. It's all about commercializing the education system. I went in for illustration because I wanted to be... an Illustrator. The amount of redundant courses I had to take when I just wanted to learn how to draw and use photoshop/illustrator, not to mention the debt I had to take on...man. It ruined my hopes of being a commercial artist in my 20's. I came back in my thirties and now do digital sculpting and product design and made a point, no art school. 100% mentorship and self learning, which is in my experience the only way to go. Thank you Adam, it is a real world issue and needs to be recognized.
I honestly regret going to art school so much. It feels like I learnt close to nothing. And this makes me feel like it's not worth paying back student loans for. I honestly want to refund at least the expense.
I'm a Gen X and I feel the same way. I know at this point in my life I do not have any money saved for retirement and I will work until I die. I still have college loans from my community college( love compound interest) and I have a BFA in graphic design. I was in the industry for over 21+ years and constantly educating myself on new software and trying to keep up with all the technology. Overtime I realized if you don't use something you will lose it or tech will change and make things cheaper than you expected. I did my research back in the 90's for my degree but by the time I graduated after taking the long route of over 8 years they were not paying graphic designers that wage I had researched. I was not in a position to move. I was told to start out at the bottom and work my way up. I tried working my way up but layoffs would constantly occur due to economic issues in 2001, 2008. Then 2020 we went remotely at this other graphic design job that I had and we thought how great it was to be in tech. Capitalism showed us despite our experience and degrees that didn't matter. Here I was again losing another graphic design because I couldn't compete globally and our department graphic design jobs went overseas. I secretly hated the corporate design job after 11 years because I was working in a "picture factory". Cranking out ads and it was all about the numbers and not about creativity. Many of my coworkers worked like little drones and didn't make any room for creativity outside of work. I got to the point I needed that creative outlet. So I started creating art and then I decided to monetize that passion for extra money. I really enjoyed it. For 4 years I had my creative side job and my boring corporate graphic design job. The creative side job kept growing every year and in the back of my head I wondered if/when I could ever take it full time. When the spring 2021 layoffs hit & we got a severance pkg. I took it and ran with it. Most of my coworkers were freaking out trying to figure out where the next corporate job was gonna be. Me..... I was smiling and also sick and tired of constantly not being able to trust the corporate system. That "safe" job is no longer safe in this world and if anything I was better off working for myself. So far it's worked out. I'm still learning but I think art schools are just cashing in on our lost youth. They don't train them for the real corporate world. They don't teach them enterpeneurial type of skills either and I saw tons of young graphic designers burn out within their first 5 years after college and many left the industry because they didn't like being treated like a cog in the system. Creativity isn't something you can crank out like a machine.
Hello Adam, I am really happy that you are pointing out this very unhealthy cycle that almost crushed not only me, it really crushed most of my good friends, who, started out with great passion, but then also get almost brainwashed that we should give up our health, grind endlessly if we wanted to get good at art. There were so many people got so suicidal and depressive, some just gave up on art because they would rather be healthy if what they've gone through in school will be the same when they are in the industry. These lazy institutes really frustrates me so much but there are still young people signing up just because the school is famous and looks "reliable", combined with high tuition fees. But in most classes they will get treated almost like a sweatshop worker, without getting much "education" that they were paying for. I really can't thank you enough to make this video and really hope it gets more traction to young and aspiring artists so that they don't get preyed on by these really irresponsible institutes.
Thank you for saying this. This applies to all “higher learning” in North America and likely other places. I got an Associates and then Bachelors degrees in science areas at a small community college in the U.S.A., and then worked for a few years. I decided to go to a university to continue my education, and that was eye-opening. The best example I can give you is “spring break” (this is roughly a week that a school takes a weekish-long break in the spring, usually overlapping the Easter holiday). All of my teachers assigned a major project, paper, or test for the week afterward. The clear expectation was that the students would spend their holiday time putting in extra effort focusing on their class only. The problem was that every teacher did this, and that on my holiday week, my school work load was literally 3.5 times normal. Having a few years on the new students, and some working life experience, I wasn’t going to tolerate this. I called out every teacher in class and informed them our holiday time was not their personal playground. And not only that, they weren’t being very exclusive, because all of their little instructor friends were doing it too. I told them that they needed to talk amongst themselves fast, and decide who was cancelling and pulling back on their pet projects for our vacation time. Or I would decide for them and let them know what I was doing, not be penalized by them on any level, as well as sharing this with the various Deans. And implied I would involve other and greater powers too (like media). After they recovered the color in their faces and scurried off to talk to their compatriots there was a serious editing of the expectations for the week from all instructors in the department. I think a few students calling the administrators and bad teachers out can go a long way, as well as conversations with media outlets to make changes in higher education. Start making some waves and threaten the ivory tower, and changes can start to happen pretty quickly. They fear losing students (money) and their prestige (ego), it’s the best leverage.
I am SO glad I only committed to a 1 year fine arts diploma this year rather than the normal 3-4 year degree's. It has probably been the best and worst time of my life. I love making art but I just keep getting burnout because of the shear volume of work and assignments I have to do and the stress of handing them in on time. Originally I thought I would go into the 3-4 year course after this but at this point I'm just gonna move back home, study on my own and start working or something. My mum was always afraid doing art at University would stunt my creativity and turn me into a robot and I think she may have been right...
This video helped me rethink my idea on going to uni because I have felt for a long time that uni would be a hindrance for what I want to do down the line but because of the culture and expectations on me it feels like I am pressured to do it because otherwise you don't get anywhere in life.
I dearly wish I'd heard this 8 years ago when I was still in school and feeling like I was fighting a losing battle against my school. It would have given me such a boost to the soul knowing I wasn't the only one.
I wish that online art programs can one day make it to be regular art schools. Cuz thankfully I haven’t met an art teacher who gives a lot of homework, but now they’re starting to. I was done with the art courses I needed just in time. Now they have quizzes to “check on students learning.” I’ve met tons of regular Ed teachers who pile on work and I just took it one day at a time. I’m glad I’m a person who can’t be broken. I have bad days with college, but I don’t dwell on it. I’m curious about teaching art online, but I can’t shake the idea that “Those who can’t do, teach.” Because a lot of the time it’s like that. I try to think of it as trying to make a better art education, but it’s a battle. I really appreciate the art teachers who actually make art fun and the even rarer, regular Ed teachers who make regular subjects fun. I hope maybe the fun teachers eventually make it to the top and it’s their turn to hire actually good and fun teachers.
It helped a lot to hear this. For a while, I was feeling like I didn't make the right decision in not going to a traditional art school and instead pursuing my own art education online, which is slow as I work full time paying back student debt. But I was already crushed once by a bad educational system asking too much and I am glad I did not make that mistake again. When I was a kid I was in the gifted programs and because I was capable of more, more work was piled onto me. I willingly applied to an academy for math and science that was supposed to foster my growth and elevate my education further than the public school I was attending would with advanced classes. I burned out after a year and a half and went home. They killed my love for math and science other than a casual interest and no way would I let anyone do that to me for art as well. Fellow students made me feel stupid, talentless, fake and even discouraged me from writing creatively to tell my own stories because I wasn't good enough. I still remember someone telling me I should stop using the words I used in my writing because I was "trying to sound smarter than I actually am." To them, if you weren't instantly a master at anything you did, it wasn't worth doing. It almost happened when I was looking up advice for how to manage to try to be an artist while working 40 hours per week in an unrelated field. How to make myself sit down and put in the work to get what I want when I was so Tired all of the time from getting up at 6:30 every day for work and staring at spreadsheets all day. "Just do it" and "If you can't make yourself do it you must not want to be an artist" was all I found for the longest time. These influencers you mentioned sound a lot like the people at that super-advanced school that crammed 9 college-level classes onto me in a single semester that all assigned hours of very difficult work, that if you weren't willing to pull regular all-nighters to get the work done you couldn't survive at that school and therefore didn't belong there. I don't believe in that. Life shouldn't be spent just trying to get through the week under that kind of pressure. I'm glad that my parents recognized what was happening and convinced me to leave that environment and I'm better for it. Thank you for also reminding us that the great artists would spend months on a single painting, it can take me weeks to do one. A commission that I did this summer took me a solid month of work and I am still very proud of the end product. I should stop beating myself up for not having daily paintings to post online to please an algorithm, or not being able to sit down in the morning and work all day on an illustration on the days I am not at work. I hope more people catch on to this internet art education, it's been a blessing to be able to come home from my day job and pull up a video course and put in a little bit of time to really learn something. I have had so much growth just since I started doing it. Your videos are a huge help as well to reorientate my thinking when the harmful ideas left over by my high school experience rear their heads.
. I hated myself for almost 20 years now for not going to artschool back when I was younger. about 1 year ago. I decited to learn how to draw properly. And RIGHT at the beginning of this journey, I realized exactly THIS!!! I listened to teachers (online) or youtubers or onlinecourses...and quickly realized: That maybe (just maybe) I've got something very precious within the fact that I wasn't able to go to an artschool. That this fact maybe kept this "spark" within me alive and not to be fed to "the void". It's so sad to see, or to hear(!) that something that was always like magic to me (being able to draw anything so wonderful as some artists do), is turned into something dark and damaging by some individuals. Thank you Adam for being so open. I love to listen to you. (And sidenote: it was on of your Videos I listened to, that encouraged me to give in to that inner urge that just wants to draw but always felt not good enough...so thank you so much!!!) greetings from Switzerland 👋🏻😄
I'm actually becoming more and more OK with having missed art school as the years pass. I started later in life than is usual and always regretted not going. My skill building life line has been Tyler Edlin, CG Masters Academy and Schoolism, as well as your talks Adam! Thank you!
One of the things I have always loved about your videos is how you understand the mental aspects of art, you understand the physiological aspects that go into art. To see you unhinged like this and actually taking swipes at all the damaging crap that is out there both in brick and mortar schools and yooutube professionals... is so refreshing to see. Thank you.
Just thank you. Thank you so freaking much for what you said. I’ve been self teaching for years but I realized over time I was only teaching myself what I understood and how I understood it. And because of that my art never grew. I tried to learn what I could from social media, Skillshare, TH-cam videos, etc but none of those really helped me grow either. Plus there’s so much information out there and figuring out what works is a tedious process in itself. I definitely think a mentor program would be the best thing for myself and other artists. Just my opinion though. Anyways, thank you so much again ^_^
I had to drop out of art school years ago due to burnout. Hearing this; I am so heartbroken to hear that it's still happening. Thank you for your words and for wanting more for students.
I wish you knew my art teacher. Took an online painting course; they gave us chapter 1 and 4 of the textbook and are leaving the rest up to us to learn. It's insane.
I made art every day, I was homeschooled. Then I started public school in highschool. I got through a few years of those art classes before I gave up. After highschool, I’m starting to draw more and more again but I still can’t get back that love I once had for art but I’m trying. I want to become really good! And Adam, you’re one of my biggest inspirations to grow. You never fail to inspire me when I watch your videos. Thank you.
I went to Art Institute for one semester, then I instantly quit and went back to community college. Waste of money, time, and just flat out useless. But then I keep switching art careers; from graphic design to illustration then to character design. All are certificate programs, f*** degrees cuz I don't give a damn about US history, Psychology, Political Science, etc. I also self-taught myself comic/manga development, character design (way before I took that class; kinda useless class 🤣), and others I don't feel like listing. Geezus kryst, thank you for this very *human* talk, Adam. 🙏🏽❤
And how is community college for you? Is the work load smaller? Do they teach you anything worthy? I don't have the money for a "real" college in the US (I'm from another country also) and I don't want to destroy my mental health for a piece of paper. I just hope that after community college, from freelancing and studying online will get me somewhere to start my own business and somewhat make it in the future. Also if it isn't too personal, what CC are you attending?
As someone who's gone through it. It really comes down to pick and choose where you put your attention. The number one way you will fail your education is if your goal is for marks, and not trying to understand how to develop a high level aesthetic that has to evolve through your practice. Never focus on grades, focus on if it looks good imho. Because in the real world, grades don't matter.
I really liked your "never stop your enemies from making mistakes" adage. It's very truthful. I'm glad you can be a representative of the brighter side. I never wished for an un-institutional education more than the year following my architecture school graduation, realizing I wasted a lot of time and money for an extremely stiff beating, cultivating skills not manifested from me, but from a set of systematic expectations. Also I might ad, that I literally just wrapped up an 80 hour week, doing exactly what you described! Mind-numbing, inspiration-robbing, existentially confusing work that could have been delivered much better with a balanced set of enabling principles.
This is definitely something that needed to be said. I, like most, thought I NEEDED to go to an art school to be successful and learn everything I needed to and I quickly realized how much of what I was learning wasn't useful at all and how much filler there is because college is a business. It's not about inspiring and educating young minds, it's about getting as much money as possible out of overworking impressionable people. Especially when the majority of my peers were all in their early 20s and had never been in the world on their own. It's so easy to be taken advantage of. Against the behest of my parents I left and started purchasing classes from industry professionals online. People like Sinix, Ahmed Aldoori, and Arucelli. And I've learned so much and I've been inspired and encouraged so much. I'm so much happier now than I ever was in university and I produce more work that I'm proud of now than I did then. I'm just glad I left before I got too deep into student debt to ever be able to dig my way out.
The one class I had on digital art in college was a tutorial on how to use illustrator, half of my classes had NOTHING to do with art and I ended up dropping out with my dreams crushed. I'm lucky that I managed to find those dreams again later down the line, thank you so much for this video adam ❤️
listening to your talk about this topic felt very dear and important for me, I can see it in my place as well, not the US or Europe and its disappointing. to a point where - hearing you talk about the other artists, like Anthony - which I took his class, and the others - it all gave me a huge drive to stand out, to be "as you guys", I dont have a lot to give others, but what I have - I feel like giving to others. only because I really felt and was part of your dissapointment of the crushing system for the artists. that being said - thank you Adam. a lot.
You gotta work hard to be successful, but school seems to want to grind us all to dust. My friend blew her shoulder up in her last year of animation school. She could not rest it. It could not heal. She's 30 and facing surgery about it now.
Thanks so much for this! I’m another girl like that you were talking about that was burned out. My health reached its limit this last year, both, mental and physical, and I decided to my own health to change all this shitty way of learning without a break. Changing waking up in the morning, work work work and go to sleep, every single day to, waking up, do physical exercises, work, have a break and do things I want to do, like go on a walk with my dog, reading a book or whatever and then go to sleep for the next day. And with that, my body it’s starting to feeling good again. But I have had a lot of emotional pain. Before that I couldn’t even draw because of the pain in my arms and back… Now, the emotional pain for my old bad work habits knock the door sometimes, but now I know which way I have to go. Mental and physical health are more important that anything, in a way that if you don’t have any of them, you couldn’t even draw and the mental pain will increase. It’s not sustainable on the long term. Thanks so much for your words. Stay saying that till the message enter every single artist head that are where I were (and I’m still in there sometimes) 💕
As a Veteran of the Games/Film/Animation industry going 25 years I can speak to this truth. Most importantly about lazy teaching. I attended Art Center in the mid 90's and it held up its rep for driving students hard- too hard in a lot of cases. Later, I'd read there was an over-correction at AC when the life drawing/traditional approach was reduced by half to make room for Digital/CG curriculum and to me, that's when Art education in the states took a dive for cash. Art schools began pitching that there was no need for actual talent or ability, you just needed a computer and photoshop and they'd make you an industry level artist in 3 to 4 years. I've seen this first hand in the course of my career whereupon working with 4th year students and interns I'd come to be shocked at how little they knew or understood the fundamentals of concept ideation or even basic color and composition. Some were already burnt out from drawing and painting 24-7 for 3 years and just wanted a nap. And then there's the horror stories of students at 4 year liberal arts colleges/state school and universities going through an advertised animation program and not even seeing a computer class til their 3rd year. Irresponsible if not abject thievery! The worst by far is some schools' insistence on repetition and the 'practice, practice, practice' approach to art education. If these famed institutions were actually worth the tuition they impose, then a. they'd teach only 'perfect practice makes perfect' not repetition, and b. they'd introduce a more measured approach so students can hone their strengths rather than forcing them into an automatic, assembly line mentality and most importantly, c. emphasize the need to 'work right'. We can all learn to 'work hard', but working right will spare you the onerous exercise in futility of doing something 10 times instead of once while also preventing the early onset of arthritis or carpal tunnel. We really need to radically re-think how we're doing EVERYTHING in education in this country. On all levels, from k to college grad we've been teaching generation after generation that 'homework' or overwork is how 'it gets done' or how we achieve 'success'. REAL successful people will tell you that's horseshit- hard work yes, smart work, better. We need to STOP teaching everyone that 14 to 16 hour days is acceptable, that not taking your legally obligated vacations and pto is UNacceptable, and stop allowing companies to participate in a system that weaponizes capitalism against the 'working class'. As artists, we fall into this category. I may have been an executive at my last job, but I was still an artist who works with his hands managing other artists who work with theirs. I did everything in my power to make sure my team was well looked-after, but one thing I couldn't do was convince them to go home at a reasonable time every evening- so I stayed with them. My bosses were good people but like me, they answered to a higher rung and more often than not when I brought up the long hours the reply I would get was in the neighborhood of "it is what it is". Unacceptable.
not just art schools, it is a problem every department has. i am buried in assignments, midterms are coming, have quizzes every week havent slept more than 4 hours a day in months, i can literally feel my body breaking apart at this point.
I too went through a physical school, where you've been told you have to produce everyday and be productive, otherwise the next person in line will take your job. All I ever wanted was drawing. I ended up being burnt out, while still in school, because I tried to hack my body into sleeping less, so I can create more, better output. The school got me a job in the industry and I am very grateful, that I landed a job, that values a good work/life balance. But I still sometime struggle with the mindset, that I don't produce enough. I still feel bad about not wanting to draw sometimes after work. In fact, I thought, I lost my spark for drawing. But I can see, that I am healing too now by re-discovering the things I used to enjoy drawing. Thanks for speaking up, Adam! It is very relieving to see, that there are people out there in the industry, who value not just the art, but also the human behind it.
Thanks for speaking up! This is so important to the healthy growth of all of us and future artists- and not just artists - all teachers should here this and think about the education system and what they want to really achieve when teaching. Because the education system is breaking us instead of rising us up most of the time. But there's always hope for the future! So thank you!
Great video! Very inspiring and encouraging. I've been through a system like that. The first three years of my art university we're all about fine art, contemporary, gallery art. Everything that was commercial, videogame art, animation, comicbook art, illustration everything that digital art meant etc, were considered inferior, stupid. Team work was completely discouraged. One time one of the teachers told us in the first year that we are all enemies and we compete for high grades, a place on the wall for the exposition, for their and the public attention etc. Another teacher told me that I don't have the right mentality for the university because I did not talked about an elitistic concept in one of my projects. Some things really crushed me at that time. I felt like a failure and art was a war, a hard battle, a competition. I was depressed and I was completely neglecting my health and well being. This is the first time I talk openly about these things. Now I'm much better. Since I decided to do things my way and work on the projects I really like and completely give up on that part of the art world my life as an artist and in general have been way better.
I have been out of art education as a student for a while. That said, I was trained in industrial design (let's you know how long it has been). I come from a background of 18 credit hours with homework stacked. I can only assume that with the competitive times we live in now, young minds & bodies are forced to "produce" (not "create") 100 x as much material. Until listening to Adam's frustration, I never saw harm in this. I was known in college as "very talented" my freshman year. So, I slacked. Meanwhile, I saw people who did not visually communicate well (in my opinion & immaturity) struggle their 1st semester. However, they had 1 thing I lacked - desire. So, they churned out all the 100s of sketches, renderings, and models that I decided to snooze through (or just plain dropped the course). By the next semester's midpoint, they had surpassed me. Although, they were not great at creativity as I was, their technical abilities and problem-solving skills far exceeded my own. I know this is contrary to Adam's frustration, but their skill set improved because of the extreme number of things and content that each class required on a weekly basis. In the meantime, I risked being kicked out of the school because of my arrogance. Today, these same students have gone on to be directors and senior designers at Ford, Hyundai, Sea-Doo, Nike, and the like. Yet, all was not lost on me. After about 2 years, I decided to get my act together and apply myself to the heavy workload. (My ego would not allow me to let job opportunities pass me by). I say all this because my mindset is different now. I was much younger then, didn't know myself, and had different motivations. (Life teaches things given time). I no longer want to be the best designer as much as I want to effectively express (place out into the universe) and communicate my ideas because I believe humans and Mother Earth will benefit. That said, I just assumed that doing 100 different sketches + 50 various renderings or so for 1 class was normal. I do know that illustration is different than design, but Adam's perspective makes me reflect, "just because you were trained to do it, does it make it right". I honestly don't have a solid answer. Again, I saw how many seemingly "untalented" young and middle-aged adults improved "skillfully" in under 2 or 3 months their 2nd semester. Likewise, I became better once put under fire. However, in my current learning, I do not know if that is as important as choosing and nurturing a purpose first. Thank you Adam. This is one for me to ponder moving forward.
Finally someone mentioned the man! MATT KHOR and CTRL PLUS frickin PAINT!!! A highly underestimated source of the highest level knowledge! Thank you so much for mentioning him, that man changed my life in a same way you're managing to do with your students in terms of understanding an essence of art... Thank you all for your existence and goodwill to share knowledge!
This is why I subbed, your approach to art thinks of more than the outcome (and what a outcome). It's about the process. I was a really hard working person. Had a lot going on in life, woke up early and worked everyday on my craft. But I burnt out, and it really destroyed me, art meant everything to me, but at that point I was so tired I couldn't read. I had to rethink my whole process, so everytime I do something I also make a habit of thinking about myself because I had completly thrown me out the window and my health to the point where I had permanently damaged myself. So I get worried whenever people go through stuff like this. I hope that things goes better if not good, because balance is the key.
Thank you for this video Adam, watching it was cathartic in a way. I am currently in a fine art school that is very traditional and old fashioned (there aren't any better ones where I live), we aren't taught perspective, composition, essentials like that, we are simply told to paint, paint, paint, it's quantity over quality with very little guidance, just a form of the "work your ass off every day or you won't make it as an artist" thing. And then go home and teach yourself art on youtube and through books alone because the profs can't be bothered. It's very discouraging, to the point where thinking about going there and doing the thing I've always wanted to do and have been practicing all my life is anxiety-inducing. One of my classmates dropped out this year because they couldn't take it anymore. Hopefully there will be more teachers like you in the future, at least one or two who are invested in their students as you seem to be would be a major improvement.
If the instructors aren't teaching and you are teaching yourself, then what is the point of going to art school? I'm not sure if you live in a country where college is free or not, but in the US you could rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt which could take a lifetime to pay off. If you're motivated enough, you could teach yourself or supplement with paid courses in person or online with artists who really teach and will critique your work. It will still be substantially cheaper than paying for deadbeat instructors.
@@asimian8500 It is free yes, aside from some minor expenses (minor compared to how much a year of college costs elsewhere at least). If this place was charging US prices I don't think anyone would attend. It's worth staying for the diploma and the networking but it's still disappointing knowing there are much better schools and courses out there but are either way out of my budget or are three countries away.
Well said, Adam. This corporate mantra, that changed the point of view of what and who an artist really is, must perish. It is cancer to the very essence of being an artist. Art is much more than a way to pay the bills.
The only question I ever fet asked in an effort to improve their artwork is "can you teach me how to shade?" That word shade says a lot, the schools never taught values? In England we have the national curriculum but still our system is failing so many students. if the children don't understand a subject they instantly fall behind and leave school without even the basic of knowledge because they only care about the brightest students and that's not fare. So I agree with you,
I'm in 7:33 minutes and I can't continue listening at least not right now. My experience after 5 years of Art School, to obtain a teaching qualification. After four months of being out of there I can't still hold a pencil without feeling sick. Mentally I'm still there
at the University I'm at the teachers are very hands off. they give you some assignments to do and you're supposed to bring them your work in progress stuff and they'll give you feedback and you keep doing this until you finish your project. It's nothing like what I expected. Whoever wants to learn learns on their own and from feedback and discussion and whoever doesn't care enough to learn just doesn't learn. I'd say it's pretty lax. Most of the teachers are fine artists too, if not all of them. I'm not very fond of the engraving course, but sadly it's mandatory for 2 years at this specific department I'm in. I want to do illustrations, comic books or graphical novels and concept art and I'd say that most things I'm learning are pretty useful directly or indirectly except for engraving, though even that teaches you about composition, colors and contrast and it's an interesting experience. Art history is pretty great too.
Sounds like the uni course I did. Was expecting some in depth expert level stuff to be taught but it was, as you say, "Here's a project brief, go away and do it and we'll occasionally chime in."
If your style or your goal fits to this, this can be fine. At the university I studied it was similar: in the first lesson you got the topic or the "instruction", and then you just did all on your own. But still, there was a silent expectation that the stuff you do fits in. (Even if it was denied when I asked for this) It was sometimes not really learning something, just doing a project. I don't know where the difference is to go to university or to learn on your own. Yes, you can ask the teacher. But when you learn on your own, you can focus on what is important to you, even if it is no closed project with a showable result. I had the feeling I learned more in the theory courses (about communication theories, sociology etc.) than I learned about drawing, painting, making pictures etc
I was totally burned out and distressed after two years of art college. So disappointed . I started with love and passion for art, but was treated like a machine and not creative person , artist. So sad and truly traumatic experience ...You nailed it . I am so gladi that I listened to your comments because I felt like failure but now I see that this sistem kills people's hope. I am still recovering too years on . PTSD. I had so much stress that I had to see my doctor for help afterwards .
I was really close several times to buy into that kind of schooling practice. But I learned I can just get all the info on my own, at my own pace. Thanks to you and all the other artists on youtube I have learned what I want from my education. Thank you Adam for speaking out. I hope someday we can see more options down the line.
I am 26 years old.. and I have been doing Art since I was 9 years old… I have had an experience with one Art professor ever since I started college… and that I have always wanted to become an Art Teacher, an Art Therapist, and the like… however, after having to experience my taste in an art professor who would.. constantly give us piles and piles of work just to finish to meet the deadline… and… I have never met a professor who was so stingy and so stuck up… that I have had this burn out for almost 2 whole years… because of the high expectations they all wanted us to meet. Thank You so much for this video… I really, really needed to hear this and it is meant to be heard from those who are passionate artists.
I want to drop out of my Bachelor of Fine Arts program, at the University of Calgary, but because I have so many health issues, I need a degree to at least have on my resume incase I dont make it as an artist. I literally cannot work in an office cause of my adhd and chronic migraines. I cant work manual labour cause I have too many physical problems (I had to quit being a dishwasher cause I literally couldn't stand for 8 hours). And I know my diploma isn't gonna have any value in my life so I feel so gutted because everywhere I look is a dead end. Covid made that even worse cause now, for 2 years, I haven't been able to be on campus cause of my auto immune condition, so I literally can't take ANY practical art courses. Can't use their facilities etc. Like im fucked and its already expensive as hell to live in today's society. The only saving grace i have is my parents haven't kicked me out yet and aren't going to cause they've come to realize that my life is gonna be shit. They literally know that my life will be shit and the only way they know ill be able to survive is to get a degree and have SOME semblance of a university level education (but I know that my degree will be worth less than the paper its printed on)
Oh my God! Thank you! Thank you for saying it. I have been in a university level traditional art schools since I was a sophomore in high school and I feel like I haven't discovered myself as an artist. It's frustrating. I also agree with the unrelated classes, they add unnecessary stress and it's a waist. My time would have been better spent working on a art piece or doing something important to me. Thank you so much for voicing the truth on this difficult matter. Also this is the first time that I see you in person. Thank you it is nice to associate a voice to a friendly face. Thank you, have a blessed day.
I'm far from what I'd call a real artist yet. But I've learned from hearing other peoples pain grievance that being Self-taught doesn't invalidate your art. And often times then not, keeps people from limiting themselves because there's no "professional" setting these "rules" on how to draw.
I completely agree with you. I teach art and I’ve been in the film industry for over 20 years. I have worked at a public charter school that’s an art conservatory and I wanted to quit after the first week. I stayed the entire year and I was disgusted at the whole system. I now tutor and I can’t believe the schedule of these poor kids. 16-year-olds that have to be onlineWith classes for eight hours a day and then four hours a day homework online. That’s 12 hours a day for a 16 year old. These kids are committing suicide in on antidepressants and it is not making them actually enjoy learning or being passionate about anything. I encourage all my students parents if they can to pull their kids out of public school and homeschool them. No one in the film industry is going to care What grades you had or where you went to school. They just want to know if you know what you’re doing. My suggestion is to learn from the masters and stay away from the public school system!!
***IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:***
It's important to note that throughout my rant, I'm not calling out teachers or schools that advocate for "hard work". I'm by far NOT an anti-hard-work artist. I too work very hard and I put everything I have into what I do.
I'm aiming to call out schools or influencers who push the "if you aren't destroying your health for your career then you'll never amount to anything" type of extremist attitude.
Know as well that my aim has been and will always to be unite our artistic community, NOT divide it. I will never stand behind the idea of separating our amazing online art community into a "good teacher/bad teacher" alliance. I don't believe in alliances, they're divisive and overall destructive.
Lastly, I have mentioned a shortlist of schools that I supported, but please don't regard this as an exhaustive list. I was speaking spontaneously and just whipped a few names off the top of my head, but there are MANY unmentioned schools that I completely support publicly and stand behind proudly.
Thank you!
There's work and then there's *ugh* work. Good 'hard' work is effort with purpose that you can take pride in after it's done. The right kind of work can be sustained for surprisingly long periods of time, and can even be therapeutic.
Something you normally enjoy + tremendous pressure = *ugh* work
A repetitive task you're forced to do, devoid of purpose and heaven forbid devoid of ethics = *ugh* work
Something you normally enjoy but while having to second guess and cater to the opinions of idiots = *ugh* work
Something you normally enjoy + being treated with daily disrespect = *ugh* work
Something you normally enjoy + ZERO validation and minimal remuneration = *ugh* work
In proper and fair context, work is measured by the value of your efforts, NOT the level of suffering you personally endure. I know artists whose bitter wives want them to give up arts and work in a paint store so they can suffer as much as _she_ does at her job, and she won't have to suffer alone.
Militant finger-wagging is contagious, and the road leads right back to the old life that we left entire countries to put behind us.
There are good schools, hard to find, but honestly, the best schools that might teach you something aren't even good for beginners. I don't know man, through my experience I know you can only rely on yourself to learn. I agree with everything you have said, or at least, almost everything. When i say yourself, I mean, we have to make our own curriculums and learn from the true best.
College is bad. No matter what subject it is. I was in STEM...and I realized that the college was more into becoming a business than actually making sure the materials are taught and passed down to the next generation.
I always took the time to really learn the materials and try new things. However, the thing was I made Bs and Cs. As on the projects Cs and Ds on the regular tests, A on the final. At a certain point I didn't care for GPA. I will admit it did make it hard for me to get my first job. Luckily I switched from physics to software because if you have the projects to show, they can't throw you out the door too fast lol.
You are 100% correct man.
I love art, I love sciences, I love software, I love physical activity...My goal in life is to hopefully bring it all together and teach others to see in a unique way. I want to let people understand that it's all the same.
I when I was young I wanted to be an artist. Then a physicist. Then a Computer Scientist.
I'd always use my art skills as the basis to learn the materials. I realized we are all doing the same thing just with different tools at our disposal.
That's why I break things down into
1. What am I trying to accomplish/build/represent
2. What are the foundations and fundamentals of the subject that must be followed.
3. What tools do I need to use and learn how to use to get me there.
4. What can I build/accomplish/represent with these tools and fundamentals right now?
5. What succeeded and failed in this iteration of building/making/representing something?
6. Look for more tools and make sure my foundations/fundamentals are solid.
then repeat.
Tools....
Math: Quadratic Equation, Difference of 2 cubes, Integration by parts, etc.
Physics: Various equations representing the world
Software: Languages like Java, C++, Python, etc.
Art: Charcoal, Paintbrush, Digital Pen, etc.
I when I am learning I never think "this is what I need to know for a test"
I learn by having a vision of a complete product and using the tools that are available to get me there.
I want to paint a portrait, what are the tools I need to get me there?
I want to build a software program what tools do I need to learn to get me there?
I want to test something falling, what are the tools that I need to learn to get me there?
There is me, the huge block in front of me, and the finished product that I want to make in my head.
To destroy the block I think about what tools can get me passed it.
@@RatusMax You're one of two kinds of people: those who need a teacher and a school system, and those who learn best as their own teacher. You're the latter, as am I.
When I was finishing my bachelor of fine arts in music, I saw nothing but hoop-jumping. Just prove you can do certain things. Learning from your teachers was optional. If you saw something you didn't already know, good. If not, take a nap. Much of the time, I felt you were not there to learn, you were there to *pass*.
I know other people who can only learn if they take a course under a teacher. They need the structure set for them, they need to be nagged to do the homework, they need to be coached, to pass one exam after another and to be told congratulations when the program is completed.
@@gimmiethejuiceLol I didn't even attend my college graduation. I will tell you this, when the pandemic happened, I picked up digital painting and pulled out my college books and started reading them. Without that stress on me, I am seeing things in a different light.
I am not sure if it's because I see the world differently as I got older or I am not constantly trying to pass a test. All of the stuff I found confusing and difficult all just makes sense.;
In my 20s I was the same. I thought passing tests and doing what I was told was the way to go. Then my life turned to a living hell for a year and threw me out of it. I was under high stress and that's when I stopped caring for my gpa. It was nothing great like a 3.45. I switched from physics to computer science and graduated with like a 2.71. I knew if I finished physics with that degree I was screwed but CS and projects in my portfolio would lead me to a job. I loved how I could do any subject in CS and software. If I wanted to I could always go back to physics some later time in a higher degree. Use my job as references over the GPA.
I like the stress of time being put on me to complete a task but some things a time constraint can't make the process of learning/finishing any faster. Software comes out broken because people are impatient and want a product out to justify the money spent so far. Rule #1 software NEVER comes out on time. lol. So time constraints, are there as a guide rather than a whip. Those using it as a whip will ship broken products.
Software and Art in my eyes are exactly the same. It takes a certain type of creativity to make solutions. I was listening to FZD and It's crazy how similar the process to get the work done is.
When I tried to join a digital media class I was told by the person "You sure you want this? You need to realize that this job just doesnt fit someone who's in their 40's". The teacher literally said you can only do art if you're between 16-39 like what?
It's never too late to start learning something new (except being an athlete or sports careers I guess)
LOL never heard of that even Professional Bodybuilder have a longer professional carrier than that and this depens on your body which of course ages but ur brain is not included atleast not that heavy in that wtf
I smell ageism in the job market.
Truly. That comes from a very cynical point from them maybe because they feel they still haven’t made it or didn’t get their dream job. It’s just part of their own paranoia which again it could be a possibility. What’s possible for you is just to do it rather than not :::)
According to a program I attended, which teaches young adults about professionalism and corporate America, for some reason older people are looked at as someone who will demand more pay; because it is assumed that they most likely have been in the industry long enough to make such a demand(regardless of actual experience in it). That and they usually just have more bills to pay, will probably be closer to retirement than a fresh graduate etc. Corporate sucks major ass
THANK YOU, as a designer student who graduated 2 years ago a can tell you that:
1) TH-cam helped me more than my actual teachers.
2) Most of the teachers dont give a shit and are only there for their paycheck or to talk about how awesome they are.
3) Diplomas are overestimated.
4) Art/design schools never prepare you for the real world.
I 100% agree. I attended Rebecca Guay's Illustration Master Class and learned more in one week than an entire semester of art curriculum at a university, where the teachers are even more cynical and out of touch.
This happens not just in traditional schools, I don't know how many students I met that got in Game producing colleges and got crushed because they didint learn anything, I am a self thought 3d artist and I am glad I had the courage to go search what I have to do to be an artist, and study in a healthy way, and now getting good feedback by professional artists, even living in a family and country that thinks working with art in any way does not give you a future and thinking diploma is everithing, thank you so much for your videos, they helped me a lot in this past months since I started studying.
May I ask where are you from?
@@sugarsenpai8432 Brazil, in some big cities they really suport art here, but the majority doesnt see art with good eyes.
Como uma artista que vive no Brasil, entendo bem essa realidade. E eu vivo no Norte do Brasil.
Hey brother
Aqui pra assinar embaixo e te desejar boa sorte na tua carreira aí :)
I'm a 25 years old broken, discouraged and burnout visual development artist whose dreams got crushed and now suffers from anxiety. I wasn't like this 3 years ago but now thanks to my art school, i have a lot of mental challenges to overcome if i want to carry on my animation career.
Adam i approve your message.
good luck dude
i feel this on so many levels, art school broke me and i’m only 24. i used to draw a lot back in high school, but now after having 5+ projects due at the same time each week, one after another of many pieces due at once, it just tears you up. now i’m 100k+ in debt and not even doing what i used to love as a career…
I just stumbled over your comment browsing the comment section and just wanted to send you a big fat virtual hug from artist to artist, I hope you will recover and find your strength again, and carve a way for yourself to do what you love without sacrificing your health and happiness. Having had a burnout myself not too long ago I'm heartbroken that you had to go through something like this so young. I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart.
There seems to be an epidemic among animators, artists, and programmers in schools and certain workplaces/studios, where the deadline and output is valued more than the individual's well-being.
As someone who deeply values education, and especially values teachers who take time to consider the nuances of how students learn, rather than chucking knowledge and assignments at them... The idea of passionate students driven almost to tears because of the unreasonable demands of their school... Kind of angers me.
Lol i worked 12 hours yesterday, probably will be the same tonight, end of month invoices are coming up..
3d animation is my dream job but I honestly miss all the *time* i had working in fast food.
no, programmer actually has to be logical, it's the part of the discipline, the biggest problem for us is procrastinating that is facilitate mostly by art as the subject
@@werren894 I'm gonna be honest, I don't know what you're referring to.
@@The_Horse-leafs_Cabbage I disagree on the workplaces part because you don't seem to understand the world of work and our complaints, the reason why programmer results and deadlines are valued more than anything else in the workplace is that programmers are not artists we are logicians we actually need DEADLINE without it we won't code, we are paid not for creativity but for time, ethically we are should not think creatively because the project and goals are clear because it is simpler and less tiring than thinking more even if we are able because there is a field for these skills and definitely not part of the programmer, in contrast to creative services that do not have clear boundaries, they are indeed required to think conceptually. from null to exist, they are paid to be creative and unique so the value of every artist is dynamic and strange, the fatigue of art workers is not on energy but on the brain, they can pour it digitally or not it's up to them because both have different levels of fatigue.
don't talk about hobbyists, they are special people whose standards can't be used in general by everyone, and also startups because they prioritize speed over management sometimes they don't pay their workers, your criticism must be based on real and general things.
@@werren894 I will admit my initial comment was overly condensed, especially in regards to programmers.
It does leave the impression that I think of deadlines as a net evil for all parties involved. I apologize for my... Miscommunication on that part.
To better elaborate my full thoughts in regards to programmers being overworked, I should've focused more on the "crunch culture" that's notorious, especially in game development companies. As you point out, boundaries are important for programmers, tho they certainly have multiple uses for artists as well.
Again, I apologize for the nuance that was missing in my original comment.
I went to art school hoping to get into digital mediums, when I got there I asked every traditional art teacher how to break into the digital world; to expand my learning and skills knowing that arguably the traditional mediums are much harder to support yourself and build a career. Not to mention my passion resided in concept art. Over 5 years I went through the motions of university studied and got pretty good grades being top of my class many times, while my teachers constantly tried to discourage what I wanted to achieve of course working in digital mediums. Every so often I even had a teacher who would come talk to me, just to tell me how concept art is the scourge of the art world, that there is nothing in the world left to create because concept art ruined it for every one. I now how many skills that I will never use such as print making, high art found object sculptures. And still never learned how to paint digitally, I never finished my degree instead I dropped out after one day my teacher told my I should have gone into a certain course load that teaches digital mediums that was horribly named as to not really explain what it was or what it was about...I've spent the last 3 years teaching myself 3d and sculpting instead. what a waste.
I completely understand you... More or less that's the same of what happened in my Art School.... If I can ask where are you from?
omg wtf that art school .-.
@@lennybunny93 vancouver island
sux, whats up w them :(
Yeah fine art and entertainment art are two very different branches of art. You don't go into one branch think you'll learn the other.
It seems to me your teacher don't understand concept art at all. Concept art is used to explore ideas for a game or a movie or an animation etc. It's often times unpresentable. It's so far away from fine arts and the whole "self expression,,, change the world,,, communicate with people about deep ideas,,," It's a skill used in the production pipeline, not a direct means of self expression.
This made me cry, I feel like an absolute failure of an artist and dreamer when I don't turn in assignments on time, or when I do badly on quizzes because I had no time to study because it was spent doing other classes homework. It's so disheartening and makes me question whether or not if I'll be able to survive and be independent on my own.
mood…i remember having a final portfolio class early in the morning then another class right after, and in the end i failed the second class because i was so tired and drained from the one before that one and all the assignments i had
You can take one class for one semester so you can’t stress your self I did this in the final semester and I got good grades
@@ashwaqgaming4821
Very true! I've done that with most of my semesters. Part of the deal though is to be assertive to the college and/or family that you want to limit the amount of classes you're taking (and, to compromise to people that want you to have at least a couple of classes, I recommend taking a workout or yoga class alongside the art class, as they usually provide little to no extra homework and it helps encourage a healthy fitness habit, at least from my experience).
Glad you spoke up on this topic, I had a few friends going to art schools and they were verbally and mentally abused by the teachers. Not only that but the material and teachings they had to pass exams was practically useless to get a job directly in modern industry. Now compared to my friends I was lucky to land a concept job on the side with horrible art skills. But just 1 year in I've learned more from colleagues and teachers the like of you Mr. duff then they had in 4 years of that school. It's disgusting to see how much money these schools demand and in return give fuck all. Sorry for the vulgar language but it's a horrible thing.
Same happened to me. I am still in student loan debt, but gradually getting some stuff done. Only started working in the film industry this year and I can definitely agree that I have learned more in a couple of months working than I did in my two years of studying.
some of my teachers when i was in art school had youtube channels that was basically the classes, the other half didn’t care or worked you hard to the point where you learned nothing. if i could go back i wouldn’t go to college period, it’s tasking, draining (both mentally and from the wallet), and nothing is taught that would help. hell some projects i felt like i did way better than my teacher only to have him tear me down because it wasn’t what HE wanted…
@@PocketKanin Pardon me for replying to 3 months old comment. That teacher is definitely jealous of u, "Younger than me and already better than me?! I must tear u down to make up for my unresolved bitterness😡" This is textbook display of power trip, abusing their teacher's status to put down young aspiring students. These dinosaurs are out of touch with the modern art industry, cooped up in college and teaching outdated things. So in a vicious cycle, they unleashed those poorly hidden jealousy on talented students. Seeing more and more students are aware of this gives me hope, here's me wishing rotten art teacher's got what they deserve🤞
It’s not just teachers, but fellow students who will crush your enthusiasm in critiques, and with jealousy and spite. People posturing and bullying eachother to jockey for position in the art school hierarchy. Because so much of academic art is smoke and mirrors built on egos
I couldn't agree more. I started drawing very early and was able to draw tolerably at the age of five. And then my mother sent me to art school. Then I did not understand what was happening to me. I now know it was burnout, anxiety and procoastination. Everything I loved to paint was banned. It was impossible to draw characters, drawing in the style of comics was akin to a crime. For almost a year I have been painting dull still lifes, fucking apples and vases. As a result, I ran away from exams and hid from teachers and parents all day. I was probably on the verge of a nervous breakdown. At the age of 10, for god sake!
Damn
So you went to art school and they made you do art? How awful.
@- Astor - am i supposed to pity someone that could not appreciate education because they wanted to draw cartoon characters. If you're burnt out at school, i guess work is going to be a big shock to the system.
@- Astor - considering I'm a portrait artist and tattoist I'd say im fairly serious. Pretty good knowledge of human anatomy, decent watercolour exteriors, would like to spend a bit more time with oils. Unfortunately I'm from Britain, art hasn't been taught here for about a century, so took me a while.
@@keycuz your experience does not magically invalidate other people's struggles. You may have a decent grasp of human anatomy, but, evidenced by what you have posted, you seriously lack in human interpersonal communication. Has that also not been taught in Britain for about a century?
Sadly this is not only the art education system. I went through 5 different universities across 2 completely different countries and unfortunately the "you make it or you're not worth anything" is also the state of the education in computer science. I litterally had to relearn to rest after my degree.
I wish this will change in the future. Hopefully. I can only wish for people to not burn out.
Haha, I've heard many people argue on behalf of learning CS online/by yourself as well. How did you find going to school for it? I've been considering teaching myself a couple languages recently to make more interactive art.
@@ericmonaghan1231 IT is totally doable to learn by yourself if you have the motivation and discipline. Imo there are all the documentation and community help online that no physical school will ever match . But unlike art, companies won't consider your application if you don't have a degree, or they will pay half the wage compare to someone who has the paper.
@@ericmonaghan1231 You need to decide first where you are going then figure out the path second. You might need schooling you might not. I recommend doing self learning and trying a class or two at a community college to help discover where you want to go.
This is why I never went to school around here. Algonquin college. All the people I know who went into that program either turned into a "zombie" or lost their passion for animation. Many drop outs.
It terrified me so much so, that I took upon myself to learn. I recently started my own production company. Took me 10 years, but I still love it all.
I was considering applying to Algonquin for Illustration. It's in Ottawa, right? Thanks for the warning!
Algonquin Animation grad here (9ish years ago). it was rough. Literally the only upshot was that doing professional animation work doesn't feel so hard in comparison because I can leave work at work.
The Animation Program at Algonquin is super hard, but if you take it, you will have an extremely high chance of getting hired at one of the 5(+?) studios in Ottawa. It's hard, some times its unfair, but the teachers work very hard to make improvements on it every year. The success rate in my opinion is VERY high.
@@roysalibi Yes, it is. I wasn't trying to discourage anyone from taking the program. I just knew it wasn't the right climate for me to grow.
Shout out to everyone who got through, and can get through it tho.
The animation program does burn people out. It was a sign of pride to torture yourself.
I was in the TV program. We had a deadline ethic, and it was hard. But the animation program was bruuuutal. I watched many burn out. Hated animation because of it.
"and it seems like they're constantly trying to destroy her dreams" as an art student in canada, i 100% agree
I remembered being the first year of art school and everyone got their work stepped on..literally...thing is the lect didnt even give us detailed instruction, and we were doing silouhette, say a mug, sometimes she said theres no holes, but then on another part she asked why was there no holes to make the items recognizable...
@Ta Honestly art school is really only good for networking. I know places like Cal Arts give out internships to Disney and stuff. That's about it
I wish my teachers taught us how to write up and understand contracts when doing freelance work. You'd think learning how contracts work in the art industry would be important when doing such courses.
That would make it harder for them to take advantage of you, loll
I graduated in comunication design 17 years back at Germany. I had good experience, my teachers used to say - remember, the real teaching starts when you leave school and learning is longlife process, we only can teach you the basis, but it is good one and you can build on it. I am still thankful. And I didn't pay any money for my education, because at Germany (and lots of other EU countries ) education is free. I wish everyone should have this possibility.
This speaks to me on so many levels. I’ve been out of school for several years now, but I had our teachers verbally beat the hell out of me because I showed up pushing pixels instead of pigments. I got so bad that one of my teachers refused to critique me simply because I had presented a digital piece of art. To this day I’ll bring the story up because it hurts the same amount as the day it happened. It replays over and over in my mind. And when I hear the silence no likes or follows despite the hours I pour into my art, it is that professors voice that plays in my head again. I’m in my 30s now, and I am still healing from those wounds. I’m angry that I didn’t get the base information I need it to make artistically sound digital art. I was savvy, I was hungry and dedicated. Even if the teacher didn’t work in my medium, anything I learned traditionally I would’ve definitely applied to my digital art. I was never even given the chance. There’s no reason for me to still be this upset about it, it’s stupid really, but I don’t think a lot of teachers realize the kind of hurt and lasting impressionThey make students. These teachers are in positions we want to be in. They are the people we look up to. They are the people we think have the key to it all. And even if they don’t, who else do we have to turn to? Thanks for posting this and I feel so much better. This world is harsh and crazy making some time, but it is nice to hear that there’s somebody else out there who feels the same way, and who is a teacher no less!
It’s nice to see another person in a similar boat to me. I sadly am a through and through digital artist and no good at well, physical art. Yet what stresses me the most is how alienated I feel compared to everyone else, it’s primarily the ridiculous mindset the school’s curriculum has caused to teachers and students simply, highlighting the so called superior nature of traditional media. I understand that knowing how to draw on paper or canvas is helpful here and there but it makes everything so constrained. It really feels like my schools art programs, heck even the so called “digital” art program are designed to weed out digital artists like me. A little context on that digital class, we’re going to be animating on paper for some reasons despite we have fully complete access to the Adobe creative cloud and a ton of programs worth trying out, and of course we do it it olden ways… Anyways there’s like only one other student I know in class whom works digitally on IPad, and I feel like less than 40 kids in my school of like 900 or so are like me who work digitally. With how my highschool works, each and every one of us; potential filled aspiring artists, are treated as no good nobodies.
Thanks for sharing your perspective on this too Mitsukai.
Very well said! I have the same problem on social media thanks to algorithms and other factors, but my teachers were focused on digital products so this is an issue I genuinely don't understand. Art is art, no matter if it's traditional or digital!
This rant reminds me of my friend with whom I still have contact with. When he moved to a more prestigious and affordable university, he constantly complained to me about the insane amount of homework he gets and some of the professors who aren't exactly teaching, just handing him tons of work over and over, to the point that he stayed up late frequently (and drank too much caffeine) just to get the work done. He did this for four years until he graduated. As a result, he suffered from health problems. While he did get a job, it wasn't as great as he had hoped (he quit that job too because the culture there is crap and people relied too much on him, doing things that's out of his job's scope, merely because he graduated from that prestigious university) and despite four years, his portfolio still needs much more improvement where he wants to go.
I will NEVER, EVER understand why this is a thing, even in work culture.
This is such a pleasure to watch you get angry for something I never dared to be angry myself. I still remember those sleepless weeks in Art Academy trying to cope with amount of work, blaming myself I'm not good or talented enough. I only now realize that nobody tried to teach me a damn thing... They only demanded more work to be done. No wonder I hated art after graduation. I would have never thought this system was to blame, cause I alwayd thought I should have worked harder.
I've cycled through 3 different industries in my lifetime, commercial photography, business and computer science. AND, let me tell you they are all like that. It's the entire educational system and the way that they treat students and the expectations of corporate life. I detest it, because I'm burned out on all of it because it all feels the same.
YES. as someone who wanted to be an artist, but then went to computer science for career prospects and debt in a recession, computer science is also the same. I had good teachers, and i had teachers who just piled on work just for the sake of it. Ended up at one point hallucinating because there was too much work and suffered from sleep deprivation. It took years for me to recover from burnout, and a 7 year haitus from doing any art because I just couldn't do it even with all the time and supplies in the world. I realized that in order to do art, really needed to care for my health and learn to enjoy life again.
Worst takeaway I got from entering an art school is "don't use reference" when what I needed the most was practice and strengthening of my skills. The teachers only wanted us to draw that they deemed artistic, instead of respecting what we wanted to draw. Killed my passion for art until I graduated and slowly started picking art back up. Wasted so many years and took alooot of detours.
I recently dropped out of my school after 2 years of studying for an animation degree. It was, to put it bluntly, a terrible experience. I cannot say for sure if they were genuinely trying to promote unhealthy lifestyles but it certainly felt like it, telling us things like "oh yeah prepare to get no sleep whatsoever". When I first enrolled it just felt like another thing in life I had to go through, but after seeing how little I was actually learning, and how much I was suffering I just couldn't take it anymore. It drained me of my desire to make art at times, and I absolutely hated the idea of having to put my own health before finishing a project that ultimately was meaningless. Lost many hours of sleep, had many discussions with my family and my art had not progressed at all. I took a leap, and my art made more progress in 4 months than it ever did in those 2 years, and while I still don't have the confidence to post consistently I will continue to work on it so I eventually make it to where I want to be. Thank you immensely for all of your content Adam. You have been a huge help to me and to many of us in the art community. You're truly a blessing.
Artists: industry is hell, we need to do something about it.
Art schools: Only the dead can go to hell, we got you!
*Hands zombie diploma*
This all resonated with me. Finished my art degree last summer and feel like I wasn't really taught that much. I'm now one of those burned out discouraged people. My drive to make art has dwindled over the last couple of years which is heartbreaking to me.
Keep going imo. Ever think about just working on the projects that move you? It might awaken the fire again
Yeah maybe just take a decent period of time to work on whatever you want to, it could get you back to how you were.
Im so afraid. Im currently in my second year of middle school studying for art tech and Im slowly starting to go down the same hole you left
[Work retail 8 hours + 30 minutes cycling + 4 hours self learning art] per day is much less destructive to body and mind than going to art school. The system is a mess.
The way literally *all* the points you mentioned apply to my university hits so hard, that it hurts.
It always - without any exception - is 98% learning on your own and occasionally getting useful information from dozens.
We get our project feedback in the form of a table with mostly copy/paste sentences that barely is helpful at all. This isn't teaching, it's just monitoring your self-learning.
I actually was hella excited when i first started studying , but it stood stagnant at this "Here's the assignment and some guidelines. Choose something you wanna do for it and have it done by XYZ" crap that i stopped showing up to campus events or even listening to the weekly (twice) lectures. I get that those assignments ARE important, but they literally are the only thing we get. I easily could do this on my own - without any expensive school - with MUCH less stress involved.
At this point it's nothing more than an extremely expensive and watered down feedback every 2-3 months for me.
When getting ready to do my daily drawing session (not study related), i remember "Crap, still gotta do the project" and just immediately lose all motivation i had built up for what i usually love and want to make a career out of.
Instead it is "Here, have this design document done by XY" and "You have one typo in your file structure" or "Your project exceeded the file size limit by 5 MB, you gotta communicate that beforehand".
At this point, it literally is burning me out already. I thought so many times about quitting this school that i've lost count. But then, there's this "What are you gonna do instead?" question. Eventually having a cancelled study in my CV - being told that it would be "The worst thing!" doesn't help it at all. It's a neverending cycle of recurring depression.
When your course includes a word like "Art", you also are supposed to properly TEACH your students based on their works. Giving them proper feedback and examples based on that. I'm not learning anything new there at all.
Hell, i just want to make cool stuff..
Omg I can relate to all of this so much.
Reading through this reminds me so much of my Graphic Design course. You'd think since high school you choose what you enjoyed the most and specialise in that, it'd be better right? WRONG! It's just the never-ending burnout of having to create something under time pressure in a hireable quality. What's more is it's SO discouraging if this is what real life work is like, then of course I'm going to end up depressed because I've basically trapped myself in a hole of repetitive 'make something or else you face consequences' kind of lifestyle if i continue this degree. I guess that's what graphic design is. Designing for the purpose of others. But if this was art and there are still issues like this, i just don't understand how there is so little acknowledgement on how someone learns to create. It will always be individualistic so really, education should NEVER place a curriculum that enforces to go a certain way because that denies the essence of what creativity really is...
Anyway man, i hope you're doing well! Just a random commenter supporting you in these hard times, i hope things will work out for you later in life as well. A motto of my uni is: 'if you dont like it, change it.' For me i read it as doing things your own way, the way you can only do. But time and deadlines are what supresses it, and i acknowledge this is a preparation to reality, so there comes the point of what is more important? Yourself or the end result. Ofcourse society will care for the end result and theres not much you can really change about it. But as the creator, only you can manipulate the time you spend on creating that to benefit yourself.
@@redpandarampage2191
I’m really sorry for what you’re going through right now.
May I ask what school you go to
all of that and more! i don’t even remember when classes weren’t just “do this project, here are the guidelines, name it right, have it 1920x1080, and it’s due XY” the only time i think i learned in the classroom was during life drawing when the teacher looked at your work while you drew and pointed out here and there about shadows….
This is most universities in a nutshell. So far I've had 2 mental breakdowns due to an overload of assignments and having to read roughly 100+ pages every other day composed of new concepts and theories I've never heard of before (the other days that I don't have those reading are 30-40 pages instead), and I have to be able to remember them all. I also have assignments on top of that...it's rough, and since I'm not majoring in art, time left over is used for that instead (commissions and other freelancing gigs). I'm interested in my major and the info but man it really gets draining.
It's definitely not most universities. If everyone were reading 30-100 pages every other day, it would amount to up to 120,000 pages of reading material during the course of a bachelor's degree, an equivalent of about 200-500 books in 4 years. Most students don't even bother to read like 10 books, and I personally knew students who finished their university degrees without finishing a single book, even in technical specialties like engineering and specialties like law, only learning via bits and snippets from the internet.
P.S. I'm not saying this to devalue your point, but rather to clarify that while studying can be a very stressful experience, it's not impossible in any way. What's really terrible is the fact that even in rich countries like the US and Canada students have to have a job to sustain themselves and dilute their time and energy between studying and working for money, which is not in any way beneficial to a student's experience.
P.P.S. For comparison, my grandpa got his education in the Soviet Union, and not only he didn't have to pay for his Specialist degree (Bachelor's+Master's degree in Soviet Russia was called a Specialist degree), he was actually paid by the government to study full time.
And he wasn't rich or ''well-connected in the Communist ranks'' or whatever. His parents died during the Second World War and his adoptive father was a simple firefighter. And no, he wasn't receiving a scholarship or something like that. He was paid a stipend for studying and anyone who had good grades could receive stipends and get money for studying full-time.
@@awesomebearaudiobooks By "this is most universities in a nutshell" I meant to say the factory process in which you're intaking a bunch of information only to regurgitate it without really having the time to critically think about it. My case was just an example but not the norm. Even amongst my friends, they don't nearly have to read the amount that I do (different schools and majors). I wish I could just lightly glaze over the readings (which I've done for a few) but my exams specifically want us to quote the words of the authors I had to read (I haven't tried looking for spark notes versions of them, I just assumed they didn't exist for what I was reading, since most of it are scholarly papers/dissertations and articles from hailed sources within the field). I'm happy since I'm learning a lot, but it's draining spending hours reading materials I have only an interest in (I don't plan to make a career out of my major, but it's a "safety net" of some sorts to keep my parents happy). There are other courses that do not require significant reading on my end that serve to kind of balance everything else though (i.e. foreign language courses and the one art course I took).
Also that sounds amazing regarding your grandpa (minus him losing his parents, must have been rough). I'm on a scholarship rn which serves as a painful reminder as to what may occur if I let my grades sink, but I'm lucky to have one tbh.
I never had breakdowns like I did in college. Real life is easier than college. They make it harder and more stressful than it needs to be and to the point of where it's actually damaging. I was in stem not art but all the departments have the same problem. All this stress they put you through, I've had really hard jobs and they were still easier than being in college. It didn't prepare me for tough jobs it just caused serious breakdowns.
Thank you Adam. I'll probably never be lucky enough to work with you as a student. But as someone in his mid-30s who sidelined an art career/education to be a wage slave, and has decided that maybe it *isnt* too late to start doing what I love, your videos provide a humanity and empathy that make me feel less alone and hopeless. I cant tell you how important it is and how much I appreciate it.
directly spoken out of my soul.
Can relate so much!
Right there with you budy! Good luck, and don´t quit!
It's never too late Stan Lee was 40 when he started marvel
So I'm 36 yrs old (gonna be 37 on Nov 2) and I went to school for Graphic Design because it was the only program that offered something with art at my college. And for me, growing up without a computer built into my hand, it was really rough trying to grasp all the technical aspects. And in my school, they didn't teach you how to use the tech, or where to find info on how to do alot of things. Just what certain things were and it was up to you to figure it out.
Imagine paying a mechanic to teach you how to fix your car engine, and they hand you a box of tools, then say figure it out. Odds are it's not gonna be correct.
I thought schools were supposed to teach. If I was gonna have to "figure it out" myself, why am I paying them thousands of dollars and giving them years of my life? Plus they would drill into us with the knowledge that if your not the best of the best, your not gonna succeed because art can be a cut throat industry.
I didn't even want to be a Graphic Designer. I wanted to learn how to switch from traditional art to digital art so I can become self employed doing the art I wanted to do. When I realised that the piece of paper didn't matter because I was gonna be my own boss, i left the program. Two years gone, seven grand in debt, I feel like I'm starting over at the bottom again trying to get my shit together to become something I thought wasn't even possible several years ago. So it really helps someone like me to come across your videos that have so much unconventional positivity, and it helps to keep my head up and keeps me pointed in the right direction.
One day I hope I can meet you just to say Hi, Thanks and to shake your hand for being a light in what seems to be an endless void of a dark uncertainty. Thanks Adam! Your art is freaking amazing bro. Keep it up. Cheers friend!
Hey Adam, I want to thank you for everything you do. You've inspired me so much, not only as an artist, but as a person. Listening to you while falling asleep is something I can look forward to. I even did a college presentation on you to my peers and they really liked you! I hope you have a wonderful day/night.
Not everyone would feel complimented by “I listen to you when going to sleep” but in my case, thank you :)
@@AdamDuffArt I guess it is kind of a strange compliment, I guess I'm trying to say your voice is calming to listen to.
i often think about how art as a commodity has affected the way the general public views and values art. their opinions on how long it should take, who's allowed to create it, and what it should or shouldn't look like. i wonder sometimes how culture got to be this way, so consumer-minded, and oh boy you just made a lot of good points to help me understand that!
is it even possible for art as a career to work without it being industrialized? should art be industrialized at all? is there a way to have balance in its industrialization?
this is why i struggle with the idea of art as a business or a product. i'm for it, and find joy in supporting artists for their great efforts. and i hope to make some money myself from my own art someday. so i can't be against it fully.
but i also hate how it well, takes the art out of art and turns it into a product that then gets non-artistic, consumer, businessey rules applied to it.
The reason I avoided getting a (America) B.A. in college for art, even though I love it, is because I saw how much art history classes I had to take and how HUGELY loaded my last year would be. It didn't seem worth it, on top of doing work at an actual art museum.
I knew I wouldn't get what I needed from it. So I did English Literature and Language, and it has served me in other ways, and I'm only now getting back to art.
Mind you, college burnt me out. Reading SO much literature, a lot of it boring, and then writing long essays about subjects I didn't care about and only to write what the professor wanted, not what my actual opinions were--I hated it. I barely survived.
I didn't pick up a book for almost 5 years after I graduated. The entire primary school and extended education system is outdated and a meat grinder, they want your money, they don't care if they get you prepared for your area of interest.
I honestly think I have PTSD from art school. I sometimes wonder if it was the biggest mistake of my life. It was definitely the stupidest financial decision I ever made by far.
i'm gonna flippin cry. Art school totally destroyed me. there's always a ton of students so they swat them down like flies by throwing an immeasurable amount of work at them.
I had to quit after one year. But I regained my love for art and am doing just fine on my own right now!
thanks for talking about this
I never went to university, because I'd heard about this 12 hour a day work ethic situation, and thought "well shit, I can't do that." My artistic motivation comes in boom bust cycles, where I'll have some days where I put in 16 hours of work, then others where I can barely stomach warm-up. The crippling mountain of student loan debt that college would entail was the final nail on the coffin there. I guess I'm kind of an outsider artist. All of my training I've done by myself, relying on advice from folks like Proko, Mark Brunet, Ethan Becker, and yourself along the way. The knowledge ya'll are putting out is invaluable for people like me, who don't fit in to the 60 hour work week mold, and don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spare for higher education. So thank you!
I got burned out of my "art" program after a few years. I'm happy someone understands "practice practice practice" dolled out by my professors just isn't teaching. Or "look up some TH-cam videos" isn't teaching. Thanks for this. If my fellow students can hear this I'm sure they'll be glad someone finally understands.
Thank you so much for this video, Adam. A little while back I saw a video of a famous YoutTube artist who's done incredible work for triple-A games. He had advice on becoming a concept artist, which was: "don't even try." He said that the chance of getting into that work field is nearly impossible and that everyone should just focus on other positions that are also satisfying and pay the bill.
Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that there are more than just concept art jobs out there, but you shouldn't try to demotivate anyone who's really excited about pursuing this career. I told him that along with that you don't have to work day and night to make it into the industry and that I was a great example of that. Never went to university, tried other studies instead (never finished them), and just before the end of 2019 I got contacted by a theme park art director, asking if I wanted to help them with designs in Poland. These included not just conceptual designs but also, character art, elevation designs, detail designs, you name it. So I did, not knowing anything about theme park design.
I could tell that the uploader of that video was very sour after reading my comment. Ignoring my arguments, he only said something along the lines of "Well, I've got a lot of fans on this channel and I'm a hundred percent positivity so yeah, you're wrong." This guy is such a big influencer on this platform and when I read all those comments I was just filled with anger. Everyone was thanking him for his advice and basically made their mind up to quit on their dreams. Some even said that they felt more shitty than before watching his video but that it was the truth that they needed to hear. Can you believe that? I also pointed that out to him and he just ignored it. So I decided to let it rest and unsubscribe to his channel.
Thank god there are still honest and caring people like you out there, Adam.
@LunitsI was very relieved to not hear his name coming by when Adam was naming his list of positive art influencers. But yeah.. it was Trent Kaniuga who I had this argument with.
Not to say all of his videos are bad, on the contrary, but this one really screwed with my brain. I can still hear his voice in my head, which totally sucks because I'm without a job since June, got back into my depression after seeing that video and at the moment I'm seriously thinking of just changing career paths instead. I really wish I'd never seen it..
*THIS IS INSANELY GOOD* i tell you I made the mistake of watching these “motivational videos” who bully others into being “better than others” and mark others who didn’t achieve “HUGE THINGS” as “unworthy” and “lazy” the HECK!!!! As if you are not “THAT GIRL” than you are a “MISTAKE”!! I LOVE YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!! AS AN ARTIST WE NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU NOT THESE SNAKES!! THIS WHOLE WORLD IS CORRUPTED AND IT MAKES ME SICK!! WE HAVE A GIFT GIVEN BY GOD NOT HUMANS SO WE DON’T OWE THEM ANYTHING!! Period!! Hope to see more of these videos soon!!
Man this video feels so... nice, like a warm hug, thank you so so much.
I'm 22 and I've been studying at an art school for the last 5 years and it feels completely useless. All of the improving I've been getting in my art is just by self studying during summer break, whenever we're back to classes I don't even have time to draw and experiment because I'm just full of (mostly written) assignments and exams that don't really help at all. It's discouraging. We don't even get advice on portfolio (only heard that word once in all of this years) or how to get work at the current art industry (or even for those that want to expose on museums, the most traditional stuff). Hell, we don't even get help in drawing or painting classes, it's just 'as long as you turn in your work it's all ok', I end up passing with flying colors without even knowing what I did right or wrong, or what should I even focus on improving. I'm tired. Luckily by some miracle my passion for art didn't die at all but oooh boi my mental and physical health sure took a beating haha
I'll finish this semester and drop out, keep studying on my own + aiming to work as a teacher in elementary or high school. I also come from a teachers family so it's kinda ingrained in my dna as well. Even with that awful experience and multiple breakdowns the future does look a little bit more promising.
Sorry for the long comment, I kinda needed to rant ✨
It feels good earing a professional artist talking about this problem, thank you. When I got into artschool in Paris in 2014, I was so happy and motivated, it felt like a new beginning for me, a new life. The enthusiasm came down quickly: a ton of work (including homework) merely impossible to complete on the first year and hearing the teacher (a lot of them really bad or not made for teaching) say that you won't be good enough if you don't manage to do the work they gave you. I succeed to pass the first year but, oh boy, the next 4 years where hard. I still was really motivated, discovering day after day how incredible and exciting the arts where, that's how I really got passionate about cinema and I'm happy about that. But has you said in your video, the administration people where real f*ckers who only helped the few best students, the ones that will make the school shine, the others we where left on our own. Some teachers where great but for the majority, it was "practice, practice and practice" again has you said. I felt however that I was gaining skills and was a bit naive believing in the school saying that with a diploma, we would get a job at the end.
After school, I realized what the reality of the art industry was. I realize how everything the school told us was bullsh*t. I got my diploma but I didn't succeed to get my dream job because I didn't have the level required. And I was not the only student in this situation. I basically just paid for a diploma without gaining the skills to have the junior job. I felt destroyed realizing all the time I've putted in this school for not much.
Today, after 2 years of unemployment and small jobs, I'm still working on my skills to obtain my dream job but I am starting to lose hope. I know that I will never stop drawing or painting but It feels so hard without an great level or contacts in the industry.
Hey, je suis dans une école spécialisée à Lille, existant aussi sur Paris, leur mentalité est complètement opposé si jamais ca t'intéresse, je serais curieux de savoir dans quelle école tu étais, ca a dû être un enfer...
@@hiddenfrost4079Salut !
Il s'agit de LISAA. Je ne dirais pas que ça a été un enfer non plus. Nous n'étions pas "maltraité", pas violentés verballement ou choses inssuportables de se genre comme ça peut arriver dans certaines écoles. Mais disont que beaucoup de choses essentielles sur l'industrie ou les compétences requises ne nous ont pas été enseignées, le tout en nous faisant croire que c'était normal, et à la fin ça a été un grosse désillusion.
Il y a avait clairement une façon non avouée de gérer les choses de la part de l'administration (comme je l'ais dit sur les excellents élèves qui avakent constament attention et éloges des profs ou administration), des profs qui étaient là clairement parcequ'ils étaient amis avec d'autres (certains étaient vraiment incompétents), ils éxigaient un stage pour valider le diplôme mais n'aidaient en aucun cas les élèves pour le trouver (sachant à quel point le milieu est difficile, je trouve ça un peu honteux), etc... que des choses de ce style.
Des amis ont été à 3DNewedge et après avoir écouté leur experience, que ce soit en terme de pédagogie, d'exercices, de professeurs, j'ai réalisé après mes 5 ans à LISAA à quelle point cette dernière école était à la masse. J'ai ma part de responsablilité dans ma situation aussi évidemment mais au prix oû sont ces écoles, j'éstime que c'est à eux de faire ce qu'il faut pour leurs élèves soient apte à travailler dès la sortie.
Je ne serais pas capable de te dire si la mentalité est différente à Lille mais je serais heureux d'entendre ton experience.
@@antonydias8503 Eh bien en ce qui concerne la recherche de stage on ne va pas se leurrer, c'est pareil partout, j'ai fais plusieurs écoles différente (d'abord l'ICAN à Paris, et mtn e-artsup à Lille), c'est vrai qu'on a pas d'aide externe en soit, c'est à nous de nous débrouiller, (à paris j'étais en Game Design donc c'était un peu différent, depuis je me suis reconvertis en Game Art).
Pour le moment question art, je n'ai que Lille comme expérience, je me suis lancé alors que je n'avais jamais dessiné de ma vie, je m'intéressais beaucoup au numérique et à la 3D en fait, jte dis pas l'angoisse de début d'année quand tu vois des gens avec un niveau bien différent x)
Mais d'un point de vue pro, l'école à toujours été top niveau éducation, on apprend pas des choses débiles et inutiles comme reproduire bêtement ce qu'on voit ou pratiquer bêtement sans réfléchir non, en réalité, on est enseigné par des pros indépendant qui bossent soit seul, soit dans une petite boite indé, généralement dans le jeux vidéo et l'illustration. Donc on avait vraiment leur expérience, les bases à apprendre, déja sur le plan traditionnel (donc modèle vivant, dessin d'observation bonjour), mais très rapidement sur le plan numérique, on attaquait la 3D dès la première année, ainsi que le dessin en numérique.
Bien évidement on nous disait qu'il fallait continuer de bosser de son côté et de pratiquer, mais ce n'étais pas forcé, plutot du genre "dessinez quand meme un peu en dehors des cours, sinon ca suffit pas" ce qui est tout a fait logique.
Mais voilà, avec cette école, j'ai pu passer en quelques mois d'un stade où je ne savais pas dessiner à un stade où je me débrouille vraiment pas mal, je ne pensais pas faire de si gros progrès, rattraper des années et des années de pratique juste en observant et analysant les méthodes de travail, chercher à comprendre comment faire d'une telle manière, et pourquoi ect..
Bref, quand j'entend que dans certaines école, il peut y avoir ce genre de discours de la part de profs, ou ce genre d'enseignements inutiles qui n'apportent rien au milieu pro, je me demande vraiment pourquoi rester. Malheureusement ca t'as fais tilt trop tard, au bout de 5 ans, tu aurais pu gagner du temps, mais c'est la vie, on ne peut pas avoir 2 expériences de vie simultanées en une seule. Je paye certes entre 6 et 8k l'année, mais au moins j'ai pas le sentiment de me faire arnaquer car je sais que ce sera vraiment utile, on est en 2ème année, et en seulement 2 semaines sur un groupe de 6, on est capable de sortir un jeu en 3D, complètement modélisé, texturé, codé ect, même si ce n'est qu'une genre de démo, c'est super gratifiant.
Voilà voilà, j'espère que tu trouveras ta voie et que tu sauras quoi faire par la suite et je te souhaite bon courage !
This hits really hard for me personally, as someone who flunked out of a (once) great traditional art school in Chicago.
While part of me was a bit too young to really take it as seriously as I wanted to, working so much just to afford food and bus fare for the week, on top of commuting hours every day to get to and from said school, having hours and hours of extra course work, on top of my mental and physical health taking such damage that I'm still recuperating like 4 years after I dropped out. I gained 120 pounds and got into such a bout of depression it kinda really ruined my life for a while.
It wore me out, it strung me along, some of my teachers were amazing but the school itself was crumbling apart toward the end of my stay. I could tell it was from the top-down administrative level and I felt so disillusioned by art and the industry by the time I left, especially considering how many teachers looked down on my work for it still being "too anime" (even in college lmao).
And now I'm still trying to learn to love myself, and learn to have fun with art again. I lost that fun trying so hard and breaking down, and now I can barely draw without feeling worthless and depressed (especially due to a lot of stuff talked about in the video, how some people are so elitist about it and how I feel compared to my former peers).
Thank you for this video, it really means a lot to me. This is.. exactly what I wished I had in 2013 when I left for college, because this would have convinced me to continue learning on my own at my own pace and doing it the right way: healthy, and consistently.
I just hope I can still turn it around and undo that damage and learn to love my work and myself.
I feel that, I left college because to afford the one I went to I needed to work two full time jobs. I did fine for a bit but halfway through my second semester I just couldn’t keep going with the amount of work was on my plate, I went for Psychology at a really good school for it so even getting into the course was hard but it was just too much.
I went for psychology because since I was young I pretty much was told being a doctor or a banker or a landowner was the only way to have a good life in this world, that I’d be a failure if I stuck with art or even worse if I kept writing. So I gave a lot of that up when young because when your told by everyone you look up to that it won’t work you end up believing it, if you trust someone enough what they say is truth at first glance. So I studied really hard throughout middle school and high school, top of my class, finished my AP Psych course with a 130 because of extra credit, got every single question correct on both final exams. But I wasn’t exactly happy, sure the actually knowledge was amazing but the work was a lot. College was that but ten times worse and for every single subject I had. I could maybe handle one subject worth of back breaking work but all of them? I’m surprised anyone can handle that stuff, because it made me have a mental breakdown where I couldn’t get out of bed for a month because even that felt like too much.
Sometimes it does feel like this world will try to kill you one way or another, even when it shouldn’t.
For one thing even if I dont know you I would like to send you love from the bottom of my heart. I m sorry for what you went trough.
@@barnovai Oh it's all good man. I'm not entirely absolved of fault, since there were some bad decisions on my own part (not including just going to art school in general though... lmaooo) so I just gotta keep learning to do stuff with a better mindset.
I dont want to write a long story in addition to yours, I share so much of your story. Not just you friend!
@@nothankyoutube I understand, man. I'm sorry you had to suffer too. But I believe in you!
fantastic advice and a fair rant. the culture of art education and art jobs are horrible in a lot of communities. they just add more and more pressure to young artist and trying to turn Artists into Factory workers. "if you cant keep up, that means youre weak" attitude. where people brags with each other about who works the hardest and whos the most underpaid and who got sick the most because they work 20 hours a day. basically killing young artist's spirit. its tiring and disgusting talking to people with that type of view towards art
thanks for talking about this Adam
I remembered being in uni for art...sleeping at 3 am..and final year we got so little sleep...finishing work like about 4 am, went home with my housemate, sleep till 6...woke up and back to work all day...little sleep...the uni killed my love for art for a while..i got amxiety parts of life there, the worst part was depression, months of not going to class, just in bed, barely eating by forcing myself... I slowly get back to art after graduating, find another major to continue my studies. Still drawing now, but on my own time, not anxious, not comparing myself to others (sometimes).
Idk if you will see this comment but maybe some 20 somethings will relate since while I don't consider myself a digital artist I draw and a lot of my work requires art skills but first and foremost I am a film maker. Anyway 3 years at film school now I can say I have really learned anything. I transferred to the program after two years of game and digital media production. I haven't gotten any practical experience none zero. No one taught me on set lingo how to navigate in the field jobs any of that. Stuff that you need. You see in film we use a lot of particular vocab and jargon to quickly communicate things. A lot of this is for safety. Like acknowledging moving large equipment, wires, bathroom breaks you name it. I had a leg up on my peers from youtube and doing my own client work but I gathered a team of my peers for a shoot and was floored that no one had learned any of this stuff.
This is really dangerous first off and I shouldn't need to be filling in for the education they should be getting. I had hoped I would at least get a film for my thesis. Nope. I just need to write a paper. I spend a lot of my time now teaching my peers to help get them ready and since I have work coming in regularly I try to give work to peers so they can get the experience. I cut my course load down and now I only do two classes a week. Three days a week I go to class and watch old movies and TV. I have three papers per class and that's it. I've seen most of these things, star wars, bride of Frankenstein classics. Despite having vast knowledge about films I learned nothing about making films. I have vast knowledge about religion and sociology stuff but again nothing that can help me. many of my peers graduated and are now floundering in the corporate world because we are in NY and the school has connections to big business type companies. It feels designed to just sift out the art from artist. It blows my mind how little they've cultivated the creativity of students. I know I am really lucky to have gotten experience in the field but I feel crappy knowing the people I meet in college are falling out of the field into something else. Or they double down on a masters and look tired all the time.
You really learn to make movies by making them. I spent three years watching them and I can tell you it will never make you good at making movies it'll only make you good at checking your phone. Won't lie if I could go back in time I'd definitely tell myself not to go 120K in debt for something you already do. Most sets I work on don't even ask for a degree. In fact no one has asked if I have a degree.
my college professors in art school (community college) were every day professionals doing a side job as a teacher at night. One teacher gave advice about the graphic design industry was to get into it while in college. Get into a print business and you'll learn the ropes. I learned more from on the job training than I did in college. College had creative projects but they were not realistic to what the real world was in the graphic design industry.
Respect. Your carry the voice of generations of artists who have slogged through the traditional education system and plopped out the the other side, wondering what happened. I've wanted to continue my education, but the thought of going back into a brick and mortar makes my skin crawl. I will be going for programs like yours, Proko, Oatley, etc. Love your content and words.
I'm not in fine arts but in game dev and I can echo this entire thing. I've been failed by so many Uni's and have seen so many of my peers burn out because of the horrible work loads and elitist attitude.
I remember I quit the day I quit uni in my heart. I went to a math teacher, who was good and who I looked up to. I went to him for advice cause I was struggling with the workload (15 courses, all with mandatory, graded assignments that all factored into your bachelor's, all in the first semester). I had to work to support myself as well and I was literally running out of hours in my day. His response, without even blinking, was to tell me that complaining isn't going to help me, that if I was serious about my education I shouldn't work on the side, and that some people just weren't cut out for it.
Fuck him.
I started learning from home, taught myself game dev through online programs and a self structured curriculum. In less time than that dumb degree would have taken me to get I've worked up a portfolio that got me hired.
Not only can they disrespect you, they can also steal your work.
I’m so glad that this video came out. I’m on my last semester sadly in illustration and well… “I can only get better if I keep doing practicing” as I have hear a million times. On my 4 years I have learned more by myself than at college.
I feel so sad that we graduate and we can truly only start “learning” when we get to work, if we can get there with the lack of motivation or actual understanding of the area we want to be at.
i really appreciate hearing this kind of validation from someone who teaches, the school system is absolute bullshit and particularly in the US, drives young adults into a lifetime of debt before they can even get their feet on the ground. thank you for advocating for actual self care over career and for the reminder that we as humans are more than just our productivity or our conformance to societal standards 💙
It took me a while to land a great job as a 2d animator and I had to struggle for long time doing freelance gigs left and right getting paid in basically sand. hearing true pros talk their minds on this unjust system gives me both hope and inspiration to do right by myself.
That's cool that you got a job in 2D. Do you mind if i ask what you're doing? I might have this illusion that it's a super niche thing and a difficult gig to land. GJ
@@ericmonaghan1231 Oh sorry for the late response i live in holland so time zones. I work as a 2d animator. Its very hard because 3d is the big thing nowadays. But I'm thankful there are companies that see the value of traditional animation. Animation in general has many niches and the animators are given little to no respect at all in really big companies.
Everybody is out for a paycheck. Greed is everywhere. What pisses me off is I for one always wanted to be an art teacher but spent my time learning my crafts and other things, but for me to try a teaching position means I would have to go back to school to obtain some sort of "teacher " certification and BS. Many of us out here would make great teachers.
Find a way to teach online. I have seen many start ups in my area to teach children art. They are little art studios because public schools cut the funding in the arts. Sadly only the upper class can afford to send their children to these studios. Many people are going online to learn too because they may not be able to afford to go to college for art. If I had TH-cam and all the resources there are now back in the 90's I would have saved myself tons of $$ & not be constrained by the debt. I have a BFA and it doesn't matter anymore. It's just a piece of paper and corporate ad agencies don't care. They only want to see your portfolio & if you network correctly you might get hired. You can't share your years of experience or they pull the ageism card on you and only want young fresh out of college students because they can pay them less.
When there is a road block(such as certification) I suggest make an alternative path. Screw the system.
Having come up as a freelance artist and having worked the past 16 years as an illustrator/concept artist as well as just about every other job in the field I can say that your talk about the hours thing is very true. But, for a lot of us in the beginning, especially the freelance side, a lot of us were just doing everything we could to survive on meager income in order to pay bills - in that start of the career I probably worked 12-16 hours a day just to survive month to month bills - my skill as an artist just wasn't bringing in profitable clients in any way. That's the hardest part, working in order to survive and on top of that improving your art to the point where you can dig yourself out enough to be able to escape that hole where you're just doing anything to make ends meet. For me personally, and others I knew at the time, we just stacked clients and lived unhealthy lives because we couldn't afford to survive otherwise. I think if there were any tangible way to be a Leonardo working on a 6 month painting without income, that'd be ideal, but I never heard of a path that allowed for something like that while giving you some live-able wage. Anyway, I think that's likely a large part of where that work til death attitude is born from, it's a very negative place to be and it's terrible advice for anyone to do, but I think so many artists, like me, couldn't find another path when we were initially struggling in the field. Balance is the key to everything, burnout and stress is just brutal and I hope in the future there is a known path forward for people entering this space as a working artist. Hope you're well!
It can be tough. The anime industry is a good example of how rough some artists have it. My love and appreciation goes out for all of you who are struggling
I had a grin on from ear to ear. THANK YOU for saying it. The amount of soul draining bs we had to deal with was ridiculous. Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
Thanks a lot Adam. I notice that my school is really just doing what you're describing as "lazy teaching" and I had to do my own research on learning about art and it's industry. It's honestly surprising that a school in Canada is as bad as schools in my country Indonesia. Channels like yours, Bobby Chiu, FZD, and more just motivates me to keep going. I really hope I can meet you someday and buy you and your family a pack of donut or two. Cheers!
Bobby Chiu rocks
Omigosh I could go on about this. I was in a college graduated and everything four years in computer animation. Nothing about taxes, nothing about charging for art, nothing about marketing... Nothing about setting up stores or building a business, absolutey nothing and then even the fundamentals weren't even properly drilled in... Even now I'm still taking online courses to learn about things they should have taught me. So now I feel like I'm scrambling and trying to catch up. I also teach and I have to explain to my students what to expect and I have even had another teacher yell at me because I was advising them not to go to college but go to a trade scho or take online courses you're so much better off! Its sick and cruel what they are doing
AMEN!! Went through the Canadian College system for art and yes 100% as you say. It's all about commercializing the education system. I went in for illustration because I wanted to be... an Illustrator. The amount of redundant courses I had to take when I just wanted to learn how to draw and use photoshop/illustrator, not to mention the debt I had to take on...man. It ruined my hopes of being a commercial artist in my 20's. I came back in my thirties and now do digital sculpting and product design and made a point, no art school. 100% mentorship and self learning, which is in my experience the only way to go. Thank you Adam, it is a real world issue and needs to be recognized.
I honestly regret going to art school so much. It feels like I learnt close to nothing. And this makes me feel like it's not worth paying back student loans for. I honestly want to refund at least the expense.
I'm a Gen X and I feel the same way. I know at this point in my life I do not have any money saved for retirement and I will work until I die. I still have college loans from my community college( love compound interest) and I have a BFA in graphic design. I was in the industry for over 21+ years and constantly educating myself on new software and trying to keep up with all the technology. Overtime I realized if you don't use something you will lose it or tech will change and make things cheaper than you expected.
I did my research back in the 90's for my degree but by the time I graduated after taking the long route of over 8 years they were not paying graphic designers that wage I had researched. I was not in a position to move. I was told to start out at the bottom and work my way up. I tried working my way up but layoffs would constantly occur due to economic issues in 2001, 2008. Then 2020 we went remotely at this other graphic design job that I had and we thought how great it was to be in tech.
Capitalism showed us despite our experience and degrees that didn't matter. Here I was again losing another graphic design because I couldn't compete globally and our department graphic design jobs went overseas. I secretly hated the corporate design job after 11 years because I was working in a "picture factory". Cranking out ads and it was all about the numbers and not about creativity. Many of my coworkers worked like little drones and didn't make any room for creativity outside of work. I got to the point I needed that creative outlet. So I started creating art and then I decided to monetize that passion for extra money. I really enjoyed it. For 4 years I had my creative side job and my boring corporate graphic design job.
The creative side job kept growing every year and in the back of my head I wondered if/when I could ever take it full time. When the spring 2021 layoffs hit & we got a severance pkg. I took it and ran with it. Most of my coworkers were freaking out trying to figure out where the next corporate job was gonna be. Me..... I was smiling and also sick and tired of constantly not being able to trust the corporate system. That "safe" job is no longer safe in this world and if anything I was better off working for myself. So far it's worked out. I'm still learning but I think art schools are just cashing in on our lost youth. They don't train them for the real corporate world. They don't teach them enterpeneurial type of skills either and I saw tons of young graphic designers burn out within their first 5 years after college and many left the industry because they didn't like being treated like a cog in the system. Creativity isn't something you can crank out like a machine.
Hello Adam, I am really happy that you are pointing out this very unhealthy cycle that almost crushed not only me, it really crushed most of my good friends, who, started out with great passion, but then also get almost brainwashed that we should give up our health, grind endlessly if we wanted to get good at art. There were so many people got so suicidal and depressive, some just gave up on art because they would rather be healthy if what they've gone through in school will be the same when they are in the industry.
These lazy institutes really frustrates me so much but there are still young people signing up just because the school is famous and looks "reliable", combined with high tuition fees. But in most classes they will get treated almost like a sweatshop worker, without getting much "education" that they were paying for. I really can't thank you enough to make this video and really hope it gets more traction to young and aspiring artists so that they don't get preyed on by these really irresponsible institutes.
Thank you for saying this. This applies to all “higher learning” in North America and likely other places.
I got an Associates and then Bachelors degrees in science areas at a small community college in the U.S.A., and then worked for a few years. I decided to go to a university to continue my education, and that was eye-opening.
The best example I can give you is “spring break” (this is roughly a week that a school takes a weekish-long break in the spring, usually overlapping the Easter holiday). All of my teachers assigned a major project, paper, or test for the week afterward. The clear expectation was that the students would spend their holiday time putting in extra effort focusing on their class only. The problem was that every teacher did this, and that on my holiday week, my school work load was literally 3.5 times normal.
Having a few years on the new students, and some working life experience, I wasn’t going to tolerate this. I called out every teacher in class and informed them our holiday time was not their personal playground. And not only that, they weren’t being very exclusive, because all of their little instructor friends were doing it too. I told them that they needed to talk amongst themselves fast, and decide who was cancelling and pulling back on their pet projects for our vacation time. Or I would decide for them and let them know what I was doing, not be penalized by them on any level, as well as sharing this with the various Deans. And implied I would involve other and greater powers too (like media).
After they recovered the color in their faces and scurried off to talk to their compatriots there was a serious editing of the expectations for the week from all instructors in the department.
I think a few students calling the administrators and bad teachers out can go a long way, as well as conversations with media outlets to make changes in higher education. Start making some waves and threaten the ivory tower, and changes can start to happen pretty quickly. They fear losing students (money) and their prestige (ego), it’s the best leverage.
I am SO glad I only committed to a 1 year fine arts diploma this year rather than the normal 3-4 year degree's. It has probably been the best and worst time of my life. I love making art but I just keep getting burnout because of the shear volume of work and assignments I have to do and the stress of handing them in on time. Originally I thought I would go into the 3-4 year course after this but at this point I'm just gonna move back home, study on my own and start working or something. My mum was always afraid doing art at University would stunt my creativity and turn me into a robot and I think she may have been right...
This video helped me rethink my idea on going to uni because I have felt for a long time that uni would be a hindrance for what I want to do down the line but because of the culture and expectations on me it feels like I am pressured to do it because otherwise you don't get anywhere in life.
I dearly wish I'd heard this 8 years ago when I was still in school and feeling like I was fighting a losing battle against my school. It would have given me such a boost to the soul knowing I wasn't the only one.
I wish that online art programs can one day make it to be regular art schools. Cuz thankfully I haven’t met an art teacher who gives a lot of homework, but now they’re starting to. I was done with the art courses I needed just in time. Now they have quizzes to “check on students learning.” I’ve met tons of regular Ed teachers who pile on work and I just took it one day at a time. I’m glad I’m a person who can’t be broken. I have bad days with college, but I don’t dwell on it.
I’m curious about teaching art online, but I can’t shake the idea that “Those who can’t do, teach.” Because a lot of the time it’s like that. I try to think of it as trying to make a better art education, but it’s a battle.
I really appreciate the art teachers who actually make art fun and the even rarer, regular Ed teachers who make regular subjects fun. I hope maybe the fun teachers eventually make it to the top and it’s their turn to hire actually good and fun teachers.
It helped a lot to hear this. For a while, I was feeling like I didn't make the right decision in not going to a traditional art school and instead pursuing my own art education online, which is slow as I work full time paying back student debt. But I was already crushed once by a bad educational system asking too much and I am glad I did not make that mistake again. When I was a kid I was in the gifted programs and because I was capable of more, more work was piled onto me. I willingly applied to an academy for math and science that was supposed to foster my growth and elevate my education further than the public school I was attending would with advanced classes. I burned out after a year and a half and went home. They killed my love for math and science other than a casual interest and no way would I let anyone do that to me for art as well. Fellow students made me feel stupid, talentless, fake and even discouraged me from writing creatively to tell my own stories because I wasn't good enough. I still remember someone telling me I should stop using the words I used in my writing because I was "trying to sound smarter than I actually am." To them, if you weren't instantly a master at anything you did, it wasn't worth doing. It almost happened when I was looking up advice for how to manage to try to be an artist while working 40 hours per week in an unrelated field. How to make myself sit down and put in the work to get what I want when I was so Tired all of the time from getting up at 6:30 every day for work and staring at spreadsheets all day. "Just do it" and "If you can't make yourself do it you must not want to be an artist" was all I found for the longest time.
These influencers you mentioned sound a lot like the people at that super-advanced school that crammed 9 college-level classes onto me in a single semester that all assigned hours of very difficult work, that if you weren't willing to pull regular all-nighters to get the work done you couldn't survive at that school and therefore didn't belong there. I don't believe in that. Life shouldn't be spent just trying to get through the week under that kind of pressure. I'm glad that my parents recognized what was happening and convinced me to leave that environment and I'm better for it. Thank you for also reminding us that the great artists would spend months on a single painting, it can take me weeks to do one. A commission that I did this summer took me a solid month of work and I am still very proud of the end product. I should stop beating myself up for not having daily paintings to post online to please an algorithm, or not being able to sit down in the morning and work all day on an illustration on the days I am not at work. I hope more people catch on to this internet art education, it's been a blessing to be able to come home from my day job and pull up a video course and put in a little bit of time to really learn something. I have had so much growth just since I started doing it. Your videos are a huge help as well to reorientate my thinking when the harmful ideas left over by my high school experience rear their heads.
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I hated myself for almost 20 years now for not going to artschool back when I was younger.
about 1 year ago. I decited to learn how to draw properly. And RIGHT at the beginning of this journey, I realized exactly THIS!!!
I listened to teachers (online) or youtubers or onlinecourses...and quickly realized:
That maybe (just maybe) I've got something very precious within the fact that I wasn't able to go to an artschool. That this fact maybe kept this "spark" within me alive and not to be fed to "the void".
It's so sad to see, or to hear(!) that something that was always like magic to me (being able to draw anything so wonderful as some artists do), is turned into something dark and damaging by some individuals.
Thank you Adam for being so open. I love to listen to you.
(And sidenote:
it was on of your Videos I listened to, that encouraged me to give in to that inner urge that just wants to draw but always felt not good enough...so thank you so much!!!)
greetings from Switzerland 👋🏻😄
I'm actually becoming more and more OK with having missed art school as the years pass. I started later in life than is usual and always regretted not going. My skill building life line has been Tyler Edlin, CG Masters Academy and Schoolism, as well as your talks Adam! Thank you!
One of the things I have always loved about your videos is how you understand the mental aspects of art, you understand the physiological aspects that go into art. To see you unhinged like this and actually taking swipes at all the damaging crap that is out there both in brick and mortar schools and yooutube professionals... is so refreshing to see. Thank you.
Just thank you. Thank you so freaking much for what you said. I’ve been self teaching for years but I realized over time I was only teaching myself what I understood and how I understood it. And because of that my art never grew. I tried to learn what I could from social media, Skillshare, TH-cam videos, etc but none of those really helped me grow either. Plus there’s so much information out there and figuring out what works is a tedious process in itself. I definitely think a mentor program would be the best thing for myself and other artists. Just my opinion though. Anyways, thank you so much again ^_^
I had to drop out of art school years ago due to burnout. Hearing this; I am so heartbroken to hear that it's still happening. Thank you for your words and for wanting more for students.
I wish you knew my art teacher. Took an online painting course; they gave us chapter 1 and 4 of the textbook and are leaving the rest up to us to learn. It's insane.
I made art every day, I was homeschooled. Then I started public school in highschool. I got through a few years of those art classes before I gave up. After highschool, I’m starting to draw more and more again but I still can’t get back that love I once had for art but I’m trying. I want to become really good! And Adam, you’re one of my biggest inspirations to grow. You never fail to inspire me when I watch your videos. Thank you.
I went to Art Institute for one semester, then I instantly quit and went back to community college. Waste of money, time, and just flat out useless.
But then I keep switching art careers; from graphic design to illustration then to character design. All are certificate programs, f*** degrees cuz I don't give a damn about US history, Psychology, Political Science, etc.
I also self-taught myself comic/manga development, character design (way before I took that class; kinda useless class 🤣), and others I don't feel like listing.
Geezus kryst, thank you for this very *human* talk, Adam. 🙏🏽❤
And how is community college for you? Is the work load smaller? Do they teach you anything worthy?
I don't have the money for a "real" college in the US (I'm from another country also) and I don't want to destroy my mental health for a piece of paper.
I just hope that after community college, from freelancing and studying online will get me somewhere to start my own business and somewhat make it in the future.
Also if it isn't too personal, what CC are you attending?
As someone who's gone through it. It really comes down to pick and choose where you put your attention. The number one way you will fail your education is if your goal is for marks, and not trying to understand how to develop a high level aesthetic that has to evolve through your practice.
Never focus on grades, focus on if it looks good imho. Because in the real world, grades don't matter.
I really liked your "never stop your enemies from making mistakes" adage. It's very truthful. I'm glad you can be a representative of the brighter side. I never wished for an un-institutional education more than the year following my architecture school graduation, realizing I wasted a lot of time and money for an extremely stiff beating, cultivating skills not manifested from me, but from a set of systematic expectations. Also I might ad, that I literally just wrapped up an 80 hour week, doing exactly what you described! Mind-numbing, inspiration-robbing, existentially confusing work that could have been delivered much better with a balanced set of enabling principles.
This is definitely something that needed to be said. I, like most, thought I NEEDED to go to an art school to be successful and learn everything I needed to and I quickly realized how much of what I was learning wasn't useful at all and how much filler there is because college is a business. It's not about inspiring and educating young minds, it's about getting as much money as possible out of overworking impressionable people. Especially when the majority of my peers were all in their early 20s and had never been in the world on their own. It's so easy to be taken advantage of. Against the behest of my parents I left and started purchasing classes from industry professionals online. People like Sinix, Ahmed Aldoori, and Arucelli. And I've learned so much and I've been inspired and encouraged so much. I'm so much happier now than I ever was in university and I produce more work that I'm proud of now than I did then. I'm just glad I left before I got too deep into student debt to ever be able to dig my way out.
The one class I had on digital art in college was a tutorial on how to use illustrator, half of my classes had NOTHING to do with art and I ended up dropping out with my dreams crushed. I'm lucky that I managed to find those dreams again later down the line, thank you so much for this video adam ❤️
listening to your talk about this topic felt very dear and important for me, I can see it in my place as well, not the US or Europe and its disappointing.
to a point where - hearing you talk about the other artists, like Anthony - which I took his class, and the others - it all gave me a huge drive to stand out, to be "as you guys", I dont have a lot to give others, but what I have - I feel like giving to others.
only because I really felt and was part of your dissapointment of the crushing system for the artists.
that being said - thank you Adam. a lot.
You gotta work hard to be successful, but school seems to want to grind us all to dust.
My friend blew her shoulder up in her last year of animation school. She could not rest it. It could not heal. She's 30 and facing surgery about it now.
Thanks so much for this! I’m another girl like that you were talking about that was burned out. My health reached its limit this last year, both, mental and physical, and I decided to my own health to change all this shitty way of learning without a break. Changing waking up in the morning, work work work and go to sleep, every single day to, waking up, do physical exercises, work, have a break and do things I want to do, like go on a walk with my dog, reading a book or whatever and then go to sleep for the next day. And with that, my body it’s starting to feeling good again. But I have had a lot of emotional pain. Before that I couldn’t even draw because of the pain in my arms and back… Now, the emotional pain for my old bad work habits knock the door sometimes, but now I know which way I have to go. Mental and physical health are more important that anything, in a way that if you don’t have any of them, you couldn’t even draw and the mental pain will increase. It’s not sustainable on the long term. Thanks so much for your words. Stay saying that till the message enter every single artist head that are where I were (and I’m still in there sometimes) 💕
You're like Bill burr, you always speak what I have in mind, this gave me motivation to get back to art, I can't think you enough!
As a Veteran of the Games/Film/Animation industry going 25 years I can speak to this truth. Most importantly about lazy teaching. I attended Art Center in the mid 90's and it held up its rep for driving students hard- too hard in a lot of cases. Later, I'd read there was an over-correction at AC when the life drawing/traditional approach was reduced by half to make room for Digital/CG curriculum and to me, that's when Art education in the states took a dive for cash. Art schools began pitching that there was no need for actual talent or ability, you just needed a computer and photoshop and they'd make you an industry level artist in 3 to 4 years. I've seen this first hand in the course of my career whereupon working with 4th year students and interns I'd come to be shocked at how little they knew or understood the fundamentals of concept ideation or even basic color and composition. Some were already burnt out from drawing and painting 24-7 for 3 years and just wanted a nap. And then there's the horror stories of students at 4 year liberal arts colleges/state school and universities going through an advertised animation program and not even seeing a computer class til their 3rd year. Irresponsible if not abject thievery! The worst by far is some schools' insistence on repetition and the 'practice, practice, practice' approach to art education. If these famed institutions were actually worth the tuition they impose, then a. they'd teach only 'perfect practice makes perfect' not repetition, and b. they'd introduce a more measured approach so students can hone their strengths rather than forcing them into an automatic, assembly line mentality and most importantly, c. emphasize the need to 'work right'. We can all learn to 'work hard', but working right will spare you the onerous exercise in futility of doing something 10 times instead of once while also preventing the early onset of arthritis or carpal tunnel. We really need to radically re-think how we're doing EVERYTHING in education in this country. On all levels, from k to college grad we've been teaching generation after generation that 'homework' or overwork is how 'it gets done' or how we achieve 'success'. REAL successful people will tell you that's horseshit- hard work yes, smart work, better. We need to STOP teaching everyone that 14 to 16 hour days is acceptable, that not taking your legally obligated vacations and pto is UNacceptable, and stop allowing companies to participate in a system that weaponizes capitalism against the 'working class'. As artists, we fall into this category. I may have been an executive at my last job, but I was still an artist who works with his hands managing other artists who work with theirs. I did everything in my power to make sure my team was well looked-after, but one thing I couldn't do was convince them to go home at a reasonable time every evening- so I stayed with them. My bosses were good people but like me, they answered to a higher rung and more often than not when I brought up the long hours the reply I would get was in the neighborhood of "it is what it is". Unacceptable.
not just art schools, it is a problem every department has.
i am buried in assignments, midterms are coming, have quizzes every week
havent slept more than 4 hours a day in months, i can literally feel my body breaking apart at this point.
I too went through a physical school, where you've been told you have to produce everyday and be productive, otherwise the next person in line will take your job. All I ever wanted was drawing. I ended up being burnt out, while still in school, because I tried to hack my body into sleeping less, so I can create more, better output. The school got me a job in the industry and I am very grateful, that I landed a job, that values a good work/life balance. But I still sometime struggle with the mindset, that I don't produce enough. I still feel bad about not wanting to draw sometimes after work. In fact, I thought, I lost my spark for drawing. But I can see, that I am healing too now by re-discovering the things I used to enjoy drawing.
Thanks for speaking up, Adam! It is very relieving to see, that there are people out there in the industry, who value not just the art, but also the human behind it.
Thanks for speaking up! This is so important to the healthy growth of all of us and future artists- and not just artists - all teachers should here this and think about the education system and what they want to really achieve when teaching. Because the education system is breaking us instead of rising us up most of the time. But there's always hope for the future! So thank you!
Great video! Very inspiring and encouraging. I've been through a system like that. The first three years of my art university we're all about fine art, contemporary, gallery art. Everything that was commercial, videogame art, animation, comicbook art, illustration everything that digital art meant etc, were considered inferior, stupid. Team work was completely discouraged. One time one of the teachers told us in the first year that we are all enemies and we compete for high grades, a place on the wall for the exposition, for their and the public attention etc. Another teacher told me that I don't have the right mentality for the university because I did not talked about an elitistic concept in one of my projects. Some things really crushed me at that time. I felt like a failure and art was a war, a hard battle, a competition. I was depressed and I was completely neglecting my health and well being. This is the first time I talk openly about these things. Now I'm much better. Since I decided to do things my way and work on the projects I really like and completely give up on that part of the art world my life as an artist and in general have been way better.
It is honestly so good to hear you speak out about the work hours. I've been working from home and the pressure and guilt started to get to me.
I have been out of art education as a student for a while. That said, I was trained in industrial design (let's you know how long it has been). I come from a background of 18 credit hours with homework stacked. I can only assume that with the competitive times we live in now, young minds & bodies are forced to "produce" (not "create") 100 x as much material. Until listening to Adam's frustration, I never saw harm in this. I was known in college as "very talented" my freshman year. So, I slacked. Meanwhile, I saw people who did not visually communicate well (in my opinion & immaturity) struggle their 1st semester. However, they had 1 thing I lacked - desire. So, they churned out all the 100s of sketches, renderings, and models that I decided to snooze through (or just plain dropped the course). By the next semester's midpoint, they had surpassed me. Although, they were not great at creativity as I was, their technical abilities and problem-solving skills far exceeded my own. I know this is contrary to Adam's frustration, but their skill set improved because of the extreme number of things and content that each class required on a weekly basis. In the meantime, I risked being kicked out of the school because of my arrogance. Today, these same students have gone on to be directors and senior designers at Ford, Hyundai, Sea-Doo, Nike, and the like. Yet, all was not lost on me. After about 2 years, I decided to get my act together and apply myself to the heavy workload. (My ego would not allow me to let job opportunities pass me by).
I say all this because my mindset is different now. I was much younger then, didn't know myself, and had different motivations. (Life teaches things given time). I no longer want to be the best designer as much as I want to effectively express (place out into the universe) and communicate my ideas because I believe humans and Mother Earth will benefit.
That said, I just assumed that doing 100 different sketches + 50 various renderings or so for 1 class was normal. I do know that illustration is different than design, but Adam's perspective makes me reflect, "just because you were trained to do it, does it make it right". I honestly don't have a solid answer. Again, I saw how many seemingly "untalented" young and middle-aged adults improved "skillfully" in under 2 or 3 months their 2nd semester. Likewise, I became better once put under fire. However, in my current learning, I do not know if that is as important as choosing and nurturing a purpose first.
Thank you Adam. This is one for me to ponder moving forward.
Finally someone mentioned the man! MATT KHOR and CTRL PLUS frickin PAINT!!! A highly underestimated source of the highest level knowledge!
Thank you so much for mentioning him, that man changed my life in a same way you're managing to do with your students in terms of understanding an essence of art... Thank you all for your existence and goodwill to share knowledge!
Ma you tell me who are the other people he mentions a th end of the video?
This is why I subbed, your approach to art thinks of more than the outcome (and what a outcome). It's about the process. I was a really hard working person. Had a lot going on in life, woke up early and worked everyday on my craft. But I burnt out, and it really destroyed me, art meant everything to me, but at that point I was so tired I couldn't read. I had to rethink my whole process, so everytime I do something I also make a habit of thinking about myself because I had completly thrown me out the window and my health to the point where I had permanently damaged myself. So I get worried whenever people go through stuff like this. I hope that things goes better if not good, because balance is the key.
Thank you for this video Adam, watching it was cathartic in a way.
I am currently in a fine art school that is very traditional and old fashioned (there aren't any better ones where I live), we aren't taught perspective, composition, essentials like that, we are simply told to paint, paint, paint, it's quantity over quality with very little guidance, just a form of the "work your ass off every day or you won't make it as an artist" thing. And then go home and teach yourself art on youtube and through books alone because the profs can't be bothered. It's very discouraging, to the point where thinking about going there and doing the thing I've always wanted to do and have been practicing all my life is anxiety-inducing. One of my classmates dropped out this year because they couldn't take it anymore.
Hopefully there will be more teachers like you in the future, at least one or two who are invested in their students as you seem to be would be a major improvement.
If the instructors aren't teaching and you are teaching yourself, then what is the point of going to art school? I'm not sure if you live in a country where college is free or not, but in the US you could rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt which could take a lifetime to pay off. If you're motivated enough, you could teach yourself or supplement with paid courses in person or online with artists who really teach and will critique your work. It will still be substantially cheaper than paying for deadbeat instructors.
@@asimian8500 It is free yes, aside from some minor expenses (minor compared to how much a year of college costs elsewhere at least). If this place was charging US prices I don't think anyone would attend. It's worth staying for the diploma and the networking but it's still disappointing knowing there are much better schools and courses out there but are either way out of my budget or are three countries away.
Well said, Adam. This corporate mantra, that changed the point of view of what and who an artist really is, must perish. It is cancer to the very essence of being an artist. Art is much more than a way to pay the bills.
The only question I ever fet asked in an effort to improve their artwork is "can you teach me how to shade?" That word shade says a lot, the schools never taught values? In England we have the national curriculum but still our system is failing so many students. if the children don't understand a subject they instantly fall behind and leave school without even the basic of knowledge because they only care about the brightest students and that's not fare. So I agree with you,
I'm in 7:33 minutes and I can't continue listening at least not right now.
My experience after 5 years of Art School, to obtain a teaching qualification. After four months of being out of there I can't still hold a pencil without feeling sick. Mentally I'm still there
at the University I'm at the teachers are very hands off. they give you some assignments to do and you're supposed to bring them your work in progress stuff and they'll give you feedback and you keep doing this until you finish your project. It's nothing like what I expected. Whoever wants to learn learns on their own and from feedback and discussion and whoever doesn't care enough to learn just doesn't learn. I'd say it's pretty lax. Most of the teachers are fine artists too, if not all of them. I'm not very fond of the engraving course, but sadly it's mandatory for 2 years at this specific department I'm in. I want to do illustrations, comic books or graphical novels and concept art and I'd say that most things I'm learning are pretty useful directly or indirectly except for engraving, though even that teaches you about composition, colors and contrast and it's an interesting experience. Art history is pretty great too.
Sounds like the uni course I did. Was expecting some in depth expert level stuff to be taught but it was, as you say, "Here's a project brief, go away and do it and we'll occasionally chime in."
If your style or your goal fits to this, this can be fine. At the university I studied it was similar: in the first lesson you got the topic or the "instruction", and then you just did all on your own. But still, there was a silent expectation that the stuff you do fits in. (Even if it was denied when I asked for this)
It was sometimes not really learning something, just doing a project.
I don't know where the difference is to go to university or to learn on your own. Yes, you can ask the teacher. But when you learn on your own, you can focus on what is important to you, even if it is no closed project with a showable result.
I had the feeling I learned more in the theory courses (about communication theories, sociology etc.) than I learned about drawing, painting, making pictures etc
I was totally burned out and distressed after two years of art college. So disappointed . I started with love and passion for art, but was treated like a machine and not creative person , artist. So sad and truly traumatic experience ...You nailed it . I am so gladi that I listened to your comments because I felt like failure but now I see that this sistem kills people's hope. I am still recovering too years on . PTSD. I had so much stress that I had to see my doctor for help afterwards .
I was really close several times to buy into that kind of schooling practice. But I learned I can just get all the info on my own, at my own pace. Thanks to you and all the other artists on youtube I have learned what I want from my education. Thank you Adam for speaking out. I hope someday we can see more options down the line.
I am 26 years old.. and I have been doing Art since I was 9 years old… I have had an experience with one Art professor ever since I started college… and that I have always wanted to become an Art Teacher, an Art Therapist, and the like… however, after having to experience my taste in an art professor who would.. constantly give us piles and piles of work just to finish to meet the deadline… and… I have never met a professor who was so stingy and so stuck up… that I have had this burn out for almost 2 whole years… because of the high expectations they all wanted us to meet. Thank You so much for this video… I really, really needed to hear this and it is meant to be heard from those who are passionate artists.
I want to drop out of my Bachelor of Fine Arts program, at the University of Calgary, but because I have so many health issues, I need a degree to at least have on my resume incase I dont make it as an artist. I literally cannot work in an office cause of my adhd and chronic migraines. I cant work manual labour cause I have too many physical problems (I had to quit being a dishwasher cause I literally couldn't stand for 8 hours). And I know my diploma isn't gonna have any value in my life so I feel so gutted because everywhere I look is a dead end. Covid made that even worse cause now, for 2 years, I haven't been able to be on campus cause of my auto immune condition, so I literally can't take ANY practical art courses. Can't use their facilities etc. Like im fucked and its already expensive as hell to live in today's society. The only saving grace i have is my parents haven't kicked me out yet and aren't going to cause they've come to realize that my life is gonna be shit. They literally know that my life will be shit and the only way they know ill be able to survive is to get a degree and have SOME semblance of a university level education (but I know that my degree will be worth less than the paper its printed on)
Oh my God! Thank you! Thank you for saying it. I have been in a university level traditional art schools since I was a sophomore in high school and I feel like I haven't discovered myself as an artist. It's frustrating. I also agree with the unrelated classes, they add unnecessary stress and it's a waist. My time would have been better spent working on a art piece or doing something important to me. Thank you so much for voicing the truth on this difficult matter. Also this is the first time that I see you in person. Thank you it is nice to associate a voice to a friendly face. Thank you, have a blessed day.
I'm far from what I'd call a real artist yet. But I've learned from hearing other peoples pain grievance that being Self-taught doesn't invalidate your art. And often times then not, keeps people from limiting themselves because there's no "professional" setting these "rules" on how to draw.
I completely agree with you. I teach art and I’ve been in the film industry for over 20 years. I have worked at a public charter school that’s an art conservatory and I wanted to quit after the first week. I stayed the entire year and I was disgusted at the whole system. I now tutor and I can’t believe the schedule of these poor kids. 16-year-olds that have to be onlineWith classes for eight hours a day and then four hours a day homework online. That’s 12 hours a day for a 16 year old. These kids are committing suicide in on antidepressants and it is not making them actually enjoy learning or being passionate about anything. I encourage all my students parents if they can to pull their kids out of public school and homeschool them. No one in the film industry is going to care What grades you had or where you went to school. They just want to know if you know what you’re doing. My suggestion is to learn from the masters and stay away from the public school system!!