XXthekingofyouXX isn't that the point though, it's the same show and was based around a more extreme big bad that dwarfed the original demi Gorgon. As these are more developed, as well as the rest of the upside down, Hawkins lab, and the characters, the storytelling devices had to be similar to keep the audience familiar with the second season and prevent tham from being overwhelmed; I personally prefer season 2 of you didn't already guess.
Not quite with his character arch. He started off a typical trope of an 80's movie mean rich kid. Almost always these characters never change and only serve for the underdog hero to finally overcome their fear of them. Steve went the other way and actually showed he was selfless and brave putting his life on the line for others in the face of danger. I'd say he's braver than Elle as was going up against demon dogs single-handedly with no superpowers. Lol.
I knew he was dead from the moment he was introduced tbh. I liked him too, so it was sad, but not shocking. I'm pretty sure everyone knew he was going to die when he said he would go instead of Hopper. He raised too many death flags to count.
3:36 I was actually expecting Bob to be an undercover agent meant to keep an eye on Will by posing as a bumbling stepdad. It made perfect sense too: why wouldn't the government want to keep Will in their sights? It also would have made his dialogue in the car with Will have much darker implications: that he was deliberately misleading Will into letting the Mindflayer infect him, just because It would allow the government to experiment further with the effects of the Upside Down. When it turned out that none of this was true, and he really was "what you see is what you get" it felt all the more refreshing, and I was genuinely upset at his death.
+empty sky Yeah. I don't really count it, since when I say the series is pastiche, I mean 80's pastiche. Ep 7 is so out of kilter with the rest of the series it could really take place anytime in the last 60 years. But yes, ep 7 is definitely cliché.
One thing which ruined it quite a bit were all the cheap hollywood tricks, like the fake jump scares in the beginning, and it drove me crazy how Bob just stood there before going outside in episode 8, rather than running to get away from the animals that can break doors like a rational person.
Nameless Guy 1. Putting a stupid fucking name in the front of my reply won't make it any easier to make someone get notified when I reply to them, it only makes it easier to let someone know who I'm replying to, dumbass. 2. I didn't even get notified by you, but instead got notified by violetinestan - someone who didn't even reply to me, how's that? Dumbass. 3. Joyce was super near the fucking door, dumbass.
in my opinion, the thing that made season 1 so good was how well Eleven played off of the boys. The chemistry of those 4 is what really made me love the show. I thought seeing Will in the group and even the addition of Max was a fun time, but I spent the whole series waiting for El to see her friends again. And then she stared at Mike for a bit, said something to Dustin about his teeth, and then that was it. I think they had like a solid minute of contact that whole second season. I was just really disappointed in that aspect.
idk actually that was the intention by the writers -both old grizzled men who lost a daughter named Sarah -has a father/daughter like relationship with young girls who have a unique trait to them
It is indeed I agreed with a few of the things this guy had to say and some I didn't. So, the cliche things that he pointed out I mean yeah it is obvious but you got to remember it's going to be show tribute to the 80's their going throw in things like that. For Example: Dustin finding Dart is almost the same concept as Gremlins and it's kind of neat that even though it's predictable with some of it's things but yeah, episode 7 blowed haha. That's just my opinion, hope you dudes enjoyed it, I thought it was really cool.
draft galosa because very few people like to accept any negative comment about there favourite show and I know a lot of people who like S2 of ST better then S1.
Yes, but if we look at all the hundreds and hundreds of shows that are worse, and the fact that absolutely no show (not at least that I know of) is without faults, then it's still a pretty good season as whole...If you don't like it, that's fine, and maybe you like other shows that I don't like, but you also see how this is to a big extend an opinion thing? Who says which show is good or bad actually...each to their own
Inan Endlessspaceflying first of all what does yout comment have to do with this guys comment, youre expressing that there are different opinions. Ok you didnt tell anything new. Nobody was stating in this comment chain that season 2 is definitively worse, they were as you are stating their opinion. Why do you feel an urge to state the obvius. "apple" is a fruit, did you learn anything and did i contribute anything with that statement thst an apple is a fruit?
I didn't enjoy the plot for S2 but S1 made me so attached to the characters that whatever they experience (even fillers) seemed interesting and important. Like they're becoming a part of my now-memories
Exactly! Some people complain eps 1-3 were boring as hell, for me they were actually the best part of season 2, where we finally learn what our favourite characters have been doing for the last year. That was awesome! :D In all honesty, I'd be prefectly happy if season 3 focused only on everyday lives of the protagonists :P Forget action, forget monsters, I just want to see El trying to adjust to her new life, go to school for the first time, and Steve hanging out more with the kids, lol :D
What I can't get over is instead of EL using ANGER as her fuel when closing the gate she should have used LOVE for her friends. thats why she left right? the fact that she uses anger just make Ep7 even more pointless as there is no epiphany for her. it would have been awesome for her to try to use anger and then fail and then suddenly think about all of the people in her life she is saving and then be able to close it. that always bugged me along with ep 7
My main issue with the second season is that there was not nearly enough group encounters, instead I feel like this season focused on two person groups, and it really could have benefited from more. Or at least make the duo's interesting and mix up the duo's, like Dustin and Steve being a great example.
Exactly!!! I felt like the end of the season worked really well because when everyone was together it felt like all one complete storyline, but with the two person groups that the rest of the season had it felt like there we multiple shows, as none of the main characters interacted anymore. Season one was simple, you had the kids, the teens, and the adults, which worked well as there were less small groups and instead three big groups, meaning they could all easily connect and focus on one plot.
Season one, at least to me, felt much more purpose driven and a deep and epic story in it's own right, while season two felt much more like an extension of season 1 and kind of felt a bit like a middle story
The reason it's not as good as the first is because the Duffer Brothers had no idea this show was going to turn into the pop-culture phenomenon it wound up becoming and they sortof blew their whole load and unloaded all their firepower in the first season. Once they realized they were as big as GoT or Breaking Bad they decided to use season two to build new plotlines and characters that would make the show much more sustainable in the long-run. I say wait till season 3 before we seal this show's fate. We don't want another Battlestar Galactica on our hands.
+David Cantor-Yeah, it's pretty obvious there wasn't any grand plan with this show, even to begin with. It was only supposed to be a "one and done" deal, and even then. . .the last episode of season one was anti-climatic and. . .not well planned out. It felt like it was just rushing to get everything over with and very big storylines were just. . .dropped. . .without ceremony or significance. . .I just gave it far more leniency at the time because there was going to be a season two and whether the Duffer Brothers had intended the series to end at season one or not, I had hoped they would spend the extra time with season two trying to clear up some of the mysteries left over from season one. . . :/. . .I only made it into three episodes of season two before I had to stop. Nothing left over from season one has attempted to be explained-or at least in a satisfying way (the implication that Eleven had expended her all power and physically died but some of her "essence" was still left in the Upside Down-yeah, actually, she was perfectly fine, and managed to get out of there-within five minutes. . .that was what the Duffer Brothers felt was adequate after nine extra months of trying to think this out. . .). They even just throw in one GIANT monster into the mix, without even bothering to explain just what the heck was up with the last one. . .It's just Lost all over again-the show is just going to spin its wheels for a few more seasons and just pile mysteries on top of more mysteries without bothering to explain any one of them. . . The shady government agency, arguably the greatest villains in this series, is mostly a non-presence in the first three episodes and just spend way too much time twirling their mustaches and forcing Hopper to work with them for. . .reasons. . .While Mike, Hopper, and Eleven are still extremely likable (one of the brighter parts of the first three episodes was the fact Hopper has become a surrogate father to Eleven-awww. . .)-and SO FAR, Steve has proven to be a likeable individual-everyone else either has not been fleshed out further, or have sunken even further to be reprehensible. That applies to BOTH Dustin and Nancy. Dustin willfully turning a blind eye and failing to realize his new "pet" is a Demigorgon and when faced with facts, thinks that Mike is just jealous-because he's upset that Mike has been hanging out with chicks-that pushes him into a whole new level of despicable than what he was in season one. Meanwhile, Nancy further realizes what an ass she was to Barbara in season one-not a bad thing-but she's a colossal ass to Steve because of it-treats him like absolute shit at every opportunity-and then. . .proceeds to hang out and tease the other boy she rejected, knowing full well he still has feelings for her. . .(Stop with the %^%^%^ pandering, Duffer Bros. YOU were the ones who insisted Nancy and Steve get together. . .at least STICK WITH IT. . .) The first three episodes alone were honestly so bad that it just killed any incentive I had to keep going. To be blunt, I had no reason to keep going. . .and nothing I've heard so far indicates that the show got significantly better later on in the season. . .Perhaps someone is willing to tell me that, but at the moment, my interest in this show has just absolutely flatlined. . .And it would take season three to be significantly better before I give this series another chance. . .And so far, it has been less than deserving of a second chance. . .
@@feraflauna3238 Mike was not likeable at all in season 2, what are you talking about. He was a total asshole the entire runtime and every moment he was on screen I wanted to tear my hair out
@@feraflauna3238 The final episode of season 1 wasn't anti climatic and it was well planned out. It didn't feel like that at all. There was stuff from season one that was attempted to explained and at least in a satisfying way. And that was satisfying. They explain that they are all creatures from the same place. It isn't lost at all. Nah that isn't what's happening. Nah they are a presence in the first three episodes. Most characters have been fleshed out and haven't sunken to be reprehensible. He isn't despicable...just jealous, it's a normal human emotion. Steve was a jerk too before...and she had issues she had to face first....she changed too. Yeah and she liked Jonathan. Well....things change. They weren't bad at all. It did get better though. It more then deserves a second chance.
Litty Pug and surely that is the antithesis of the whole show. The message we get throughout the season is that love makes you stronger and then we have that one hamfisted moment to the make the awful Cauliflower character make sense.
I think anger is a better word for what motivated her. Hate may be antithetical to love, but anger isn't. You can be appropriately angry that your loved ones are being threatened (as in El's friends and family), and you can be angry that you didn't receive the love you deserved ( as was the case with Papa).
Not true at all. You have to understand she's never been out there in the world much - and as it is emphasized with her "word of the day" thing, we know she still has to learn a lot about what everything means. And one of the things she struggles with is the concept of family, what it means to belong, not to mention a classic hero journey, subtype "what is the right thing to do". Go rewatch the episode again from that perspective, it's amazing and necessary for her growth.
While I still liked S2, it made me practically despise some of the characters because of the writing. Almost everyone of the main characters behave like asses in S2, but especially Nancy and sadly Dustin, whom I really loved in S1, take stupidity to a whole new level! Nancies idiotic infatuation with "bringing down the lab" would have been ok at the end of S1, but now that we have a helpful character as lead scientist, wo actually EXPLAINS to her how they're keeping the darkness at bay, I was practically screaming at her for continuting with her plan. These people had nothing to do with the original fuck up and were actually trying to rectify it. But, no, BARB (who I couldn't care less about in comparison with trying to quarantine the rift) is so much more important. Dustin, because he just insists on raising a monster while EVERYONE else realises pretty early what it could be. He doesn't even bat an eye when Dart muders his cat! And I agree, IF the goal would have been to learn more about the Demo-Dogs and how to fight them, it would have been awesome, but not just because Dustin wants a new pet. Also it pissed me off that the boys were always bickering and more or less doing their own thing. Oh and how Mike constantly insists on being a dick to Max! And yes, E7. Better not talk about that train wreck. For me S2 was carried by Hopper and Steve, who both have great character development. Also, props to Bob, who started out as a goofball sidekick and got better and better with every episode.
Yeah, well said and I absolutely agree! And it really made me sad, as they had such great chemistry in the first season. You really got the feeling they were close and always gave their all for the party.
I loved the scenes where mike was rude to max, I didn't really care for her character and it showed development in mikes character. max being forced into the group mad him feel like everyone was forgetting and trying to replace el so he felt defensive.
@FerrowTheFox, Dustin's desire to keep the monster (Dart) was due to hisr attachment issues and need for attachement. So with Dart, he felt like he was making a friend.
Great stuff! I was worried for a minute here, because I quite liked S2, but the video turned out to be really balanced and nuanced. Far more nuanced, in fact, than I fear the commenters here will end up being. Your critiques of Episode 7 are spot-on, and everything you said about this season repeating much of the original is accurate. For sure, S1 is undoubtedly a much more well-thought-out and concise piece of television than S2. There's no question of that. That said, I think the emotional core (and the flat-out fun) still ring true in the sequel. And that - paired with the characters - is enough to make me love it despite its flaws. Additional note, just a nitpick (OR SHOULD I SAY NITPIX): I think it's valid to point out that the ending scene with the Mind Flayer in the Upside Down is accompanied by the song lyrics "every step you take, every move you make, I'll be watching you" and "can't you see...you belong to me." I believe it's more than just a forced cliffhanger - it's a sign that El is being watched by the monster now, and she's on its radar.
I ended up disliking Max in season 2. I felt she didn't have much of a reason to be there aside from causing El to leave when she could have met with mike, and giving Lucas someone to have a romantic relationship with. Max also caused issues by creating s rift between Dustin and Lucas, as well as releasing Dart. It mostly felt like she and her brother and the rest of her family were unnecessary. I don't like how she was introduced either. "Oh, that game we are all super competitive over and work hard on improving ourselves with has a MysTeRiOuS nEw HiGh ScOrE?? I'M SO ANGRY! WE NEED TO FIND OUT WHO DID THIS! Wait, it's a girl? Sweet, I wanna get with her!!" It seemed artificial and honestly just made me think of Max as some special snowflake, and it became obvious she would only create more issues instead of helping the plot in some way. Her whole character and her family just seemed like an annoying, cheap way to add more drama aside from the whole Mind Flayer fiasco. I think season 2 would have been much better without her or Billy, or episode 7.
I like Max as a character, I just wish they had introduced her differently. I thought it was kinda gross that the boys basically stalked her for the first half of the season. Although she does call them out as stalkers it still underplays how gross and scary being stalked/ followed actually is. It would have been way better if they had introduced her in a situation where she was somehow involved/ exposed to the upside down, because frankly I felt like that scene where Lucas was pining over her and trying to explain everything to her was just a big waste of time considering that as an audience we already knew what happened last season. Altogether I thought it was a really lazy way to introduce a character, especially compared to the stellar character introductions in S1.
max was put in to create that sort of tension between dustin and lucas (and mike and el). she was kind of out there to make the audience think that mike would have forgotten about el. i think she has an important role and would make a pretty interesting member to the party. i say wait until the third season to see what she’s capable of :)
All of those things you’ve said about Max was wrong. Season 2 wouldn’t have worked as well as it did without Max, her family, and especially Episode 7 which was such an important part of Eleven’s journey.
Yeah I didn't like Season 2 that much. It was good but something was missing and I can't put my finger on what. It's driving me nuts talking to people and not being able to explain why I didn't like it as much. Of course aside from Episode 7, which was straight up fucking terrible.
Maybe the fact that the original group is often separated ? I have the same feeling, something is missing and by looking it twice, I thing the four boys were a bit in the back of the story. I don't know, but hey, it was good anyway !
Yeah it felt like the writers divided them into Important (mike and will) and Not As Important (Dustin, Lucas and max). Although I didn’t mind it as much bc it happens irl as well- in bigger friendship groups there is always that one person you are closer to than the others. But the fact that they seemingly only included max to cause tension really bums me out, especially as a former tomboy lol
Yeah, exactly ! It's too bad because they all have their own identity and theirs interactions together are interesting, perhaps their none-interactions are too. That bothers me a lot. I mean, the character is new, interesting, pretty cool but she never really has the chance to rise. She gets rid of his "brother" and that was a good scene but other than that, she is, like you say, juste here to put tensions with Eleven, Mike and the others and of course, between Lucas and Dustin. I hope they will work her more next season !
I hate to say this but imo El is the weakest link in season 2. Her obsession with Mike is cheesy and her adventure to her mom give us ep 7. The worst part how her power got godlike upgrade in finale, when she closed the gate, which is pretty lame process overall.. In season 1 her power got depleted so much that she can barely walk after finding Will in upside down. And again when she protect her friends from the government. And ofc at the very end when she defeated demorgorgon which disintegrate both of them. This season there's no real sense of urgency/danger for her. Ofc she's going to close it either way, DUH, the only question is how, and I'm not impressed. The only good thing is her relationship with Hopper.
I'm actually a bit harsher on Stranger Things 2 than you are. I think it was a bigger, dumber version of Season 1 in almost every respect. Sure, we get some good character combinations like Eleven and Hopper or Dustin and Steve, but its at the expense of the trope subversion that Steve was shown to be in Season 1 by having him and Nancy split up so quickly. Mike was in a holding pattern the whole season while being a jerk, the new girl Max didn't add anything to the story except being a romantic object for Dustin and Lucas to fight over, Nancy and Jonathan's hook-up feels forced, Sean Astin is wasted as the cringey, cliche "nice guy that is definitely going to die", and Eleven is kept away from the main story until the end because she'd just instantly save the day with her powers again. Oh, and the #JusticeForBarb thing seemed to have seeped its way into the show and pushed the story in a way that the writers didn't know how to properly handle. Season 2 was mostly bad.
Agree with a lot of that. The downgrading of Mike was very annoying as well as how they established he was acting out: they just announce it at the dinner table when his parents are ordering him to fill boxes of toys for a yard sale. They don't show us him acting out besides being a dick to Max. That's disappointing. Instead he just basically hangs with will and Joyce til El comes back. It's a waste. It also comes at the cost in that a seemingly obvious character relationship is never addressed in S2: Mike and Nancy's sibling relationship. They are the only two of the main cast to have lost someone very close in S1, Eleven and Barb. They live under the same roof with this common loss, grief and anger and their parents are oblivious to the truth. Yet, it has no effect on them at all. It doesn't drive them closer or anything. They have one interaction all season when Mike steals her money and she chases him out of the house and that's it. How do you overlook something like that? They were too preoccupied with getting Nancy and Jonathan together which was also sloppy and made little sense. Why would Jonathan decide to take on the same lab treating Will for his problems? It just doesnt make sense. Even worse, the journalist they go to and give the BIGGEST NEWS STORY ABOUT THE BIGGEST SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY OF ALL TIME (existence of alternate dimensional planes and literal existence of evil monsters) and he tells them to hide it all. What journalist on fucking Earth would hide that? Some of S2 is kind of crazy to be honest. Episode 7 is very bad most people agree with that, but the rest of the season has major flaws and holes too.
JDela10 totally agree. Mike was my favorite character. He was the smart, outgoing caring dude, and really was a great actor and character. He was pretty much the main character of season one as he drove everything, which felt perfect, but since everybody loved dustin they made mike a jerk and shoved him away for the whole season to focus on Dustin. Not saying Dustin is bad, he was super funny and a great edition to season one, but he never should have become a/the main character. I still think season one should have been the only season.
I think the weakest link character-wise was Billy. The Duffer Brothers claimed the needed him as a new human antagonist after Steve's character ark, and I guess that makes sense (though I don't think it's as necessary as they claim), but everything about him came across as just really cliche and one dimensional. Like yes, I suppose the abusive father thing counts as development, but it's so predictable and overused that it doesn't come across as a very strong choice in the writing. I kind of think the Duffer Brothers are just bad with bully characters in general, bc one of the few things I didn't like about season 1 was the characterization of those bullies that preyed on Mike, Dustin, Lucas, and Will. They felt perhaps even flatter than Billy, with literally no motivation for anything they did. Like yeah, I guess the whole "they're 12 and feel the need to exert their dominance over the weaker boys by being assholes" thing is sort of implied, but that doesn't explain how they are somehow weirdly antagonistic enough to laugh at Will's disappearance and try to force one Mike to jump off a cliff. The Duffer Brothers have mentioned one of their sources of inspiration for the show being Steven King's It, and these bullies sort of come across like Henry Bowers and his crew, but the difference between them and Henry is that Henry is actually certifiably insane to the point that even some of his friends start objecting to what he's doing, not the mention he eventually ends up falling under the complete control of It, who he sees as some sort of voice of reason that whispers to him through the moon. The Stranger Things bullies, however, are never taken this seriously and continue to just be played off as schoolyard bullies that Eleven quickly deals with, despite how they literally attempted to murder Mike.
Season 2 was overall a major disappointment for me. The pacing versus the first season was slowed to a crawl - nothing interesting even takes places until episode 3, unlike season one where I was hooked and questioning what was happening 15 minutes into the first episode. The cliches were really really rough for me to swallow in season two as well. I couldn't believe my eyes when 11 stumbled upon Mike and Max and misread the situation. That is such a tired and cheap plot device that it boggled my mind to think the same writers of the incredible season one were apparently satisfied with that scene. I found it unbelievable that Dustin kept that pet and didn't think it was completely retarded to house a monster from the upside down in his own home. And like you pointed out, everything that happened with 008 and her ragtag crew made me wanna crap my pants. I can only imagine Netflix forced them to make such a rushed piece of crap cause they want to make a spinoff series later and cash in even more on this IP. Most of the plot and danger in this season could have been avoided if the characters acted somewhat intelligently. And what was with Mike acting like an butthole the whole season? He was my favorite character, but then he became one of the most annoying people in the whole season.
I completely agree with everything except the Mike thing. Mike was acting up, but it was because he was separated from eleven. He went into a depression after she left.
Yeah, I hated how they handled Mike, Nancy and Steve’s break up for Jonathan ( I wanted Nancy and Jonathan but not like that, cause now I hate them and love Steve even tho I loved him last season ).
ST2 jumped the shark way too much and turned Eleven into a superhero type of character. This whole season really just missed the mark for me completely and pretty much bored me. Really didn't like it. I still love Stranger Things as a whole, and this season's flop didn't discourage my admiration of the show, but holy hell it was quite a mess for me. Still looking forward to season 3, but I'm hoping it's better (personally; I'm sure other people loved this season and that's fine).
1. The bad episode was episode 7 not 8 2. If "Eleven" not 11, didnt meet Kali she wouldnt have learned how to harness her powers and therefore woulnt have been strong enough to close the gate. 3. Mike was acting that way because he was missing Eleven and felt like his friends were replacing her with Maxine. It also didnt seem like Mike was able to comunicate how he was feeling about loosing Eleven (who was his first crush, first kiss, and best friend!)
Ashley Larocque Eleven should've learned her powers on her own instead of the cliche route of a hero's journey like what they did in Star Wars. A good example of this is Sarah Connor in Terminator 2. I really felt like the 'gang' Kali was with was totally unnecessary. And Kali could've been a more interesting ambivalent character with a more interesting backstory. I felt she was wasted in it which is a shame.
Very good video. I like that you established what made season 1 great so your season 2 criticisms had a baseline of quality attached. I do wish you had talked about Max and Billy more, though.
I kind of liked Max. Billy was absolutely terrible though, he didn't really add much, and they already had a character just like him in the first season anyway, Steve's jerk friend whose name I forget.
Despite enjoying the series for the most part (Especially the first few episodes) I now seem to remember several moments where I would be keenly interested, and in other scenes I would just turn off. I've now had my brain retuned by this video and I now understand why. Audio was perfect btw I didn't do as much squinting of the ears this time. ;))))))
I thought the characters were just so.... out of character. Like in the first season, you see that the boys are just kids. They can be selfish and quick witted but they’re a team and they embrace and acknowledge that. Having Dustin be completely selfish about keeping dart and putting the rest of them in danger just left a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth.
Great video, completely agree with all of your points, loved the intro. The ending was actually said by The Duffer Brothers to mean the Mind Flayer is still watching them and is still a threat as he knows their every moves, and of course, like the Demogorgon is season 1, he can make other gateways. Just thought I’d let ya know! But enjoyed the video and the way you ripped on episode 7 got so funny 😂
What if: Max found D'art, so that there was a bit more of a 1) reason she was in the show and 2) gives her purpose and 3) makes one of the main characters finding him in a trashcan not seem so stupidly coincidental?
I think that episode 7 the lost sister should have been an netflix original film they should have released the film after the series to in intreege the audience into wanting to know what 11 did so all the characters would have more development and feel like real people. I still really enjoyed watching the episode.
season 1 was self contained enough that it worked as a drawn out movie. season 2 didnt really need to happen at all because there was nothing left to say the cliff hanger at the end of season 1 where it should have happily ended was just tacked on to create season 2. there was no mystery or real adventure in season 2 just kind of a bunch of stuff loosely threaded together so the characters could interact as the plot very slowly unraveled. then had a predictable and pointless finale where ell just uses her powers and all the bad stuff just stops. i wonder how far they'll keep pushing the the series until calling it finished? regardless it was still nice enough to watch it just didnt really need to happen...
There's a little metric that I sometimes use for measuring how much I enjoy a show or film, it's how much I skip. If I don't find a particular element of a show or film interesting or engaging I skip it, this is really easy on Netflix especially because I can look at what's at certain points without going to them by hovering over the time marker with my cursor (and on Netflix it's clearer than most other places from what i've seen). Season 1: I don't think I skipped more than 3 or 4 scenes total. I was engaged throughout and the mysteries found within combined with the interesting characters made me want to watch as much of it as I could. Season 2: I probably skipped half of what went on. I didn't give a shit about the mystery of who had higher arcade scores, most of what went on at school, the ginger girl who was obviously just there to stir things up for when 11 came back, her brother, the conspiracy theorist or the odd love triangle sub-plot with the sister and the two guys. I understand why they separated 11 from the others for most of the show but I think that's actually the main reason they had so many writing issues this season (i'm only 1 minute into the video by the way, this is less a response to it and more of a collection of my thoughts on the matter before they get swayed this way or that by what Nitpix says) They had to fill the hole in the stories that could be filled by "just have 11 solve it" or "they won't be sad if 11 is there" by putting in mundane bullshit. Yes there were unnecessary bits and pieces in season 1 but they were manageable and they didn't bog down the rest of the show.
lhollins It wasn’t supposed to be suspenseful. The uploader is just desperate for content He says “It’s a great show with 80s tropes” and then says “it’s so predictable!!1”
I wanted to enjoy the gang from episode 7 because those actors I thought did a pretty great job, but the writing wasn't good enough or given enough time to make them actually compelling characters. Great actors, forgettable characters. The most unsatisfying combination.
I must’ve seen a completely different version of that episode because The Lost Sister had great writing and an incredible character dynamic between El and Kali.
@@RyansChannel0203 what purpose did the episode serve? what was the point of that first part of episode 1 showing 008 if shes just gonna be turned away by el within one episode of meeting her.
Your content is so good. Your points are well thought out and argued and your sense of humour is amazing. I binged your videos and ended up doubling back because it's just so good. Your content is completely underrated.
El visiting her mother was important so that she could meet that punk girl from the rainbow room so that she could learn from her how to harness her powers better. If this wouldn't have happened she would not have been able to close the gate. I also think that the crew of punks WERE using her and that was supposed to be how we feel. I also think that it's not the last time we will see them. Also, the crews characters were introduced in episode one, not the episode where el meets them. I also did not feel like the mohawk guy was a bad design for a character. It was very accurate to what street punks looked like in the 80's. That said, I do agree it was the worst episode and it felt a little alien.
btw, it's actually kinda dumb that she closed the gate with help of the hate. I thought that was whole cliche point of 7-th episode, like use power for good, for your love ones, blah blah, yoou get it. But to use hate and not love to save everyone doesn't make any sense character-wise.
Ringo Deathstarr exactly!! So I’m pretty sure she’s gonna find out with the help of some other person that actually with The Power of Love you can do much more than with hate or some other bs cliche
Ringo Deathstarr i feel like in s3 it will be interesting to see how 11 balances her emotions and powers. I dont view her as i view the other kids (i still love her the same tho) because she IS dangerous, she can and did kill. I feel like she has to fully learn what death actually is. In the lab, before she escaped, we can see she doesnt think twice before killing someone. She never saw a human in them. She didnt know what love is. Its because she was never taught that. In ep 7, she didnt kill that guy, she saw that he had a family. She understood that death can affect people. And i feel like thats a really important thing. I agree that ep 7 was weird and that its not as good as the others, but we get more character developement. She understood that kalis gang is bad so she escaped. I feel like we will se more of them in s3, especially kali. Im also curious about other kids involved in the experiment. The episode opens a lot of new doors and im excited to see whats gonna happen next.
Ringo, it was anger that Eleven was feeling, not hate. Anger is a powerful emotion, and it can be productive. We tend to think of emotions as either negative or positive, that is a bit simplistic. Emotions just are what they are, it is how we channel them that matters. Anger can tell us we aren't being treated fairly, or that someone has violated our boundaries, or that we need to change our life. Anyways, since this is a series, and Eleven will be learning more about her powers as time goes on, it makes sense that while anger made her powers strong enough to seal the gate, they are still not strong enough to destroy the being that lives in the upside-down. She is going to have to tap into emotions that are stronger than anger in order to do that. Basically, her character is going to grow with her powers, she is going to learn about herself, her strengths, her weaknesses, etc etc etc.
Ok I know I’m gonna get fucking torched for this but am I the only one who despised max The only thing I will give to the creators is that Max’s existence made it tense at the beginning the question was why is she there,what did she do all we know is that she came from California and her brother is a douche I feel that she was wasted and the love triangle sub plot made me annoyed,as said in this video I feel that there was a lot of missed opportunities with playful and structured dialogue explaining characters but with max there were very few and by the end we know that she is good at dig dug,her step brother is a douche and she likes Lucas. End note.I feel it’s appropriate to add that max wasn’t ‘standing up to her brother’ it was an instant decision and he had his back turned she had the advantage and in that current moment there was a 0% chance of her getting hurt I just don’t understand,Thank you for hearing my shitty opinion
Dude I totally agree I just commented and said that I felt like they were added in for run time. Idk why but I felt like her character somehow took away from the original group of boys relationships, like when el was introduced it felt natural and this time it just felt forced like oh dudes like video games and what madmax is a girl?!? idk I was waiting for some sort of plot twist like showing her brother was part of the government or something and nope he's just a douche. idk I didn't really care for her being added and I kind of hope she is more of a side character in the next season
I actually feel in a similar way I don't dislike her but I also have no interest in her character right now maybe that will change in the next season but right now I feel like she doesn't give anything new to the show and her character is kind of unnecessary and only good for creating conflicts between characters or deepening existing conflicts.
Eleven did learn how to close the gate from Number 8 so it wasn't complete waste of time. She showed EL how to maximize her powers but thinking about what you hate most. They even do a callback to that episode when she closing the gate so the fact you said it didn't help her close the gate is confusing tbh.
I definitely didn’t like Stranger Things 2 as much as the first one, and I think you made a lot of really valid points. Also, I absolutely unbelievably LOATHED episode 7. It was 100% my least favorite part of the entire show. I spent the entire episode wondering when we’d finally move on and get back to Hawkins because GOD those plots were somewhat flawed but AT LEAST they were interesting and had characters that I cared about. I knew from the second I saw the intro to the season that wouldn’t enjoy the characters when they popped back up later. The episode just felt so shallow compared to the rest of the show. It really bothered me and genuinely lowered my enjoyment of the season as a whole
I would hate for someone I've been telling to watch stranger things for months to finally watch stranger things, and this be the first episode they see. I think that's my greatest concern about first impressions lol
Are Stranger Things fans now reaching the “grasp at straws to defend a thing a majority of people criticize” part of the fandom, now? Because this whole “IT’S IMPORTANT AND SETS UP THE NEXT SEASON” shit is *laughable.*
Another brilliant video - there really are fantastic It took me four days to watch episode seven. Four days. That is not a good sign. No mention of Steve? Pretty sure he's my favourite mum now.
*stands and starts the slow clap* subscribing to your channel based on this video alone. Well well done. I loved (and still love) ST1, but you nailed everything right and wrong with ST2. Bravo.
Season 2 was a letdown. Characters that didn't really need to be introduced for the story to flow as they felt thrown in. Plus, too many parts where the story seems to just forget about new side characters until randomly bringing them back into it.
Wish they had spent more time working out the scripts. I'd always rather wait a little longer for a better story, than settle for something that was rushed to market :(
I was massively disappointed with season 2. It just seemed like LOOK AT L LOOK HOW EDGY AND COOL SHE IS WITH SLICK BACK HAIR. what? And the death of Bob was so predictable it's a joke. Nothing was intense and the ending was predictable. Good thing NO ONE WAS KILLED EXCEPT CHARACTERS WHO WERE JUST BROUGHT IN WOAH WHAT A SUPRISE
I think you pinpointed almost every issue I had while watching the show. Most importantly how contradictory it is that they have worked so hard building up the characters we love as REAL humans, with their qualities and flaws, and then they write the story in the most coincidental way possible.. It takes away the realness of the character and makes it evident that the writers are pulling the strings to have charater A meet character B right when event C is about to happen. You know there are monsters and alternate dimensions and stuff... but they are supposed to feel real, this was achieved in season 1, but season 2 feels so much more like fantasy (or a template of another fantasy).... And what about the STUPID MAP??.... Will could tell the monster is spreading under the ground, but "hey I feel creative so just let me go through a pound of coke and fill the house with random sribbles" which are so vaguely drawn and can be matched however you want... It just makes no sense that you reproduce a precise map out of it. Not to mention all the sudden epiphany every character needs to have in order to solve the puzzle and realize "hey, it's a map of the town!" when it's been so obvious that it IS A F*ING MAP! Seriously, the writers need to stop it with the arbitrary puzzles where they're not needed.
I disliked Jonathan in both seasons, and I hated how they had to turn him into a creep to further the plot in Season 1. Like...really? That's so wrong, and then Steve gets kind of left in the dust.
He literally sneaks into someone's garden and takes photos of a teenage girl having sex whilst stalking her. Ill never understand why we are supposed to suddenly love him past that
I feel like Kali and her crew would've been more interesting if they added them as a sort of new villain, like somehow they found out about Eleven killing the Demogorgan and closing the gate and realizing how much power she actually has, maybe misunderstanding the Upside Down and thinking El can somehow have a sort of control over it and gain a larger power that allows them to get revenge on the world at a much faster and more devastating rate. Like, maybe Kali pretends to care about El and betrays her in the end after she does what they want? Idk just a thought
I liked that Steve ended up becoming a kind of "babysitter" to the boys but it totally came out of left field. I wish they had built up to that, maybe showing that in the year since the end of season one he had become a lot closer to the boys. It just seemed so sudden that he was randomly willing to risk his life to protect them
Personally I really did enjoy season 2, but there were some things I just found kind of off putting like the cheezy as fuck ending or the fact that apparently we were supposed to be thinking Steve was being a bad boyfriend even though it was Nancy who was acting uncharacteristically shitty toward him through the season. Also, Nancy's mom getting the hots for the new guy. And why did Joyce wait inside the doors of the building for Bob and why did he also seem to think that it was safe to stop running when he came to the lobby? Shouldn't one of them have been like "let's go, let's go - let's blow this banana stand already!"
We all knew bob was gonna die in there, it was predictable. When he made it out for a second you think "i was wrong, he made it! Go bob!" then they pull the rug out from under you.
From what I remember Steve was a jerk before though and I think that's what Nancy was mad about. What about Nancy's mom doing that? That isn't bad writing. Joyce should have kept on getting out. Bob thought he was safe as the demodogs didn't appear to be there anymore. I mean one of the was like that being Joyce.
Liked the video but I wish you would have said something about Max. Because the truth is she's an added character who's flat. Anyone agree? Not trying to hate just saying!
Summer Poet418 totally agree I was hoping for something more from her character and it honestly just felt added for run time and the romance aspect as well as the friendship aspect with the rest of the boys felt completely forced as opposed to el where it felt more natural
Max part in the show hasn't been revealed yet, only hinted at. Basically, if you read between the lines, Max is somehow linked to the Shadow Monster. Think about it, she arrives in Hawkins and they learn about her because she topped Dustin's score on Dig Dug. Dig Dug is the name of the 5th episode where Hopper is trapped in the tunnels. For the record, the love triangle is also foreshadowed when Dustin fails to get Princess Daphne in Dragon's Lair, to which Lucas taunts him that the princess belongs to him, but nevermind. Right after Max arrives, Will first sees the signs of the Shadow Monster when he has an episode at the arcade (again, right after they find out about MadMax). He doesn't actually see it, just a kind of storm coming. Later he sees it in an episode but its way off in the distance and may not even be aware of Will. The second time he sees it is when he is out trick or treating. It seems to hear him calling out Mike and moves in for a closer look. Max just happened to run into the boys right before this happened. The third time, when he confronts the Shadow Monster outside the school. Max is inside the school when he runs out onto the field (knocked off her board by Eleven). Also, right after Max arrives, Hopper is called out to look at the rotting pumpkins and asks "so you say these were all fine yesterday?" Max started school that day, she literally has just arrived in Hawkins. Max didn't come alone of course, she is also with Billy, who seems to have an irrational hatred for anyone who gets close to Max, even though he seems to hate Max. It is so bad he was even going to attack Lucas in the finale. Max also continuously uses the word "stalker" throughout the season. In the last scene, the closing song is "Every Breath You Take" by the Police, a song which is about a stalker. In the scene we see a totally surprising kiss between Lucas and Max right before El and Mike. Then, we flip upside down and the last words we hear with an echo'd sound effect is "Oh can't you see? You belong to me!" and the Shadow Monster is revealed as looking down into the school like the stalker he is. He seems mad too, surrounded by the storm. But wait.. how does he even know they are there? He has no spies left and the gate is closed? The answer? Possibly, Max! Max and/or her family were stalked to Hawkins by this unseen force that has been affecting their lives. Max feels stalked and spied on, because she is being stalked and spied on all the time. Billy is somewhat influenced by the Shadow Monster which could explain why he's such a dick to Lucas. When they moved to California they unintentionally exposed this evil force in the upside down that was attached to them to an open gate, and to the unluckiest boy in Hawkins, the inter-dimensional travelling Will Byers. There's more too, I just can't remember it now. I don't think she was introduced just as a potential love interest for the two boys. Her arrival coincides with the Shadow Monster for a reason!
Summer Poet418 I feel she was added purely to shake things up. She’s the outsider in the boys’ group that Eleven was in season one, giving us an opportunity to get to know the boys. But where Eleven then brought the story as well, Max had nothing except her baggage with her brother, which was something I really could’ve done without. Yes, Billy became something for Steve to do this season since Steve also got sidelined, but it also didn’t work for me.
I disagree. I felt she was integrated much better than the whole Billy saga. I think most people are opposed to Max's character being incorporated because of their devotion to Eleven's character (whereas I felt Eleven's storyline, arc and purpose within in this series was very very weak and farfetched).
JDela10 I think you're on to something. Would certainly make Season 3 very interesting. The Mind flayer is a demon. He posessed Will. My thoughts kept going back to The Exorcist. If you remember in Exorcist, the demon also liked it very cold. The Mind flayer is much like Satan/Lucifer who hates God's creations which is humans. Not throwing any religion in there, just going off observations from what I've seen in the series. Just to use his demonic kin to kill and kill all the humans. The Mind flayer in my personal opinion, is a composite of evil, hate, and fear. Another analogy for him is an archon which feeds off of negative energy from beings.
I was really close to giving this a pre-thumbs down since I loved Season 2. However, I feel like you made great points, and the Duffer Brothers could definitely use the constructive criticism. Keep up the great content!
I believe that the ending was meant to show that the mind flayer has pretty much locked in on the kids, especially with Eleven, whom it has some sort of weird connection with. That is taking into account the song that last played before the school turned to the upside down: 'Every breath you take' which is a very stalker-ish song. The last lyrics that were heard were 'oh can't you see, you belong to me'. I'm pretty sure that was intentional. By no means is the season perfect, and I can understand why people find the first one the best of the two, but still, the final scene is not as senseless as you make it out to be.
I thought this season was meh. It made me reevaluate and question if I even truly liked season 1. Episode 7 was a disaster, made me feel nauseous. I literally felt physically ill. It was like I was forced to watch movies from the 70-90.
The upside down world in season 2 just seemed a lot less scary to me. Because most of the time when we saw it in wills ‘episodes’ we knew it was just a hallucination. But in season 1 actually knowing will was there scared the fuck out of me for some reason.
For me, it had the exact same problem ALIENS had. It wanted to do more, bigger, better than the first one, and only made the threat smaller : In both Alien and Stranger Things 1, there was only one, almost invincible monster, which was almost always hiding in the shadows in a terrifying manner, and in ALIENS and Stranger Things 2, you could simply shoot the many monsters that weren't one bit as mysterious as a banana.
This is probably the best Stranger Things 2 review I've seen. Balanced, brings out really good points and clears up what I felt was wrong, but couldn't really place a finger on. Good job.
I love season 2 except episode 7, it was mainly the style for me, it was so different to the rest of it (kinda reminded me of baby driver tbh) it meant we missed out on an episode filled with other characters. I think it would've been better for El to find Kali somewhere near Hawkins
You're on of my new favorite channels now, holy shit! You've got such a lighthearted style while still being serious with your opinion! Keep it up, man :-)
Episode 7 to Millie Bobby Brown is kind of like Sucide Squad to will smith in that they were bad, but the actors were competent, the best part of it, and couldn't save it.
I'm loving the background music immensely, hearing a nice Talking Heads hit and also Right Star, as well as Lullaby, by The Cure; just appreciating your selection of music. Also lovely essay; agree with 96% of what you say.
I dunno I wasnt much of a season 2 fan, characters, performancrs and style were amazing, but the actual plot was a little ubderwhelming, and the amount of ridiculous plot cliches they play into took me out a lot, I liked bobs performance and his chatacter but his arc was so conventional and cliche, “a nerdy character turns out to be brave and sacrifices himself, winning the heart of the girl hed been pining over, leaving her with an admiration for him, but free to go with the guy she really likes, and letfing hef get away with not making a choice at all” I know thatsa little specific but it was filled with very predictable character arcs and cliches I thought
Well, you know, of course you know El is behind that door. But I loved the scene anyway :) I think that when you're invested in the characters tolerance for clichés or predictability increases. It becomes more about the journey and less about the destination. I mean, surely we all knew Dustin's pet was evil. From the get go. But THAT'S what's awesome. The minute we see it we get this sinkin' stomach feeling of "oooohhhh this is not going to end well...", then you open up a smile in anticipation of all the shitstorm that's coming, and get even more excited. At least that's what happened to me.
That is what I thought as well. Considering the success of the show, I expect the creators to milk it, so establishing small things like Dart and the punk gang may prove useful for the future. Hopefully we will have that future though, I still want to know how the Upside Down was created and why it is like it is and so on
I remember watching Stranger Things Season 2 at midnight with my family, (and I had 5 1/2 hours of sleep the night before), falling asleep, waking up halfway through Episode 7 and being SO CONFUSED. It truly felt like a whole different show
Mike's group of friends was more fleshed out than it used to be and all of them had a separate plot. Similarly Eleven had her own separate plot of figuring out who she really was and I like how Mike wasn't a huge part of that. I guess I like that while the first season largely revolved around 3 or 4 characters everyone this season got equal development. The only lowlights in this season for me was, as I mentioned, the sister plot, and the Jonathan/Nancy romance which I found kinda boring at times.
**Grabs Pitchfork** **finishes video** **puts down pitchfork** **Says : good point** Edit: I love how you play the goonies theme when you talk about Bob
I agree, it isn't as tightly woven as the first season. It's still a great show (other than episode 7). The stuff with the conspiracy theorist bored me and Max, though a likable character felt like a pointless addition. As much as a fan favorite as 11 is, I've never found her very interesting. She's pretty much a plot device that comes in and saves the day with her powers. I'd also have liked Will to have been more a part of the team to see how he really fits in with the other three rather than him ending up the damsel in distress again.
My problems with season two, nancy wheeler becoming a bad/toxic girlfriend, that moment where they try to make Billy sympathetic, Johnathan is nothing but a prop now because nancy sucks now, minus her giving Dustin a good time lol, I hate the loony reporter and I hate that Bob got killed
By the way, before anyone comments that I am wrong, I already realized that. I still liked it more than season 2 but it is not nearly as good as season 1 and the main reason I said it was is because the same reason everyone loved season 2 at first but then Realized it wasn’t great. I overhyped it
I think It’s kind of weird that the upside down has buildings and structures because there aren’t any humans in it, just demogorgons. And I don’t believe that the world constantly matches the normal world. And what about the rest of the universe? Does that have an upside down counterpart as well?
Don't you dare talk shit about my boy Dustin. Your videos are garbage. My content is MUCH better.
Ikr f*ck him😒
DikPix yYOUR OWNED BY NITPIX GO TO NITPIX’S CHANNELS AND YOULL SE HIS LOL
Do u guys not realise it’s the same person that said that ;-;
DikPix I
Guys it's a joke
I like Steve’s character arc. Turned from an asshole to a caring guy
Him, Dustin, and Bob were the high points of the season. The rest was just a rip-off of Season one.
XXthekingofyouXX isn't that the point though, it's the same show and was based around a more extreme big bad that dwarfed the original demi Gorgon. As these are more developed, as well as the rest of the upside down, Hawkins lab, and the characters, the storytelling devices had to be similar to keep the audience familiar with the second season and prevent tham from being overwhelmed; I personally prefer season 2 of you didn't already guess.
Literally every character arc ever.
Not quite with his character arch. He started off a typical trope of an 80's movie mean rich kid. Almost always these characters never change and only serve for the underdog hero to finally overcome their fear of them. Steve went the other way and actually showed he was selfless and brave putting his life on the line for others in the face of danger. I'd say he's braver than Elle as was going up against demon dogs single-handedly with no superpowers. Lol.
A Salty One i know it’s a really cliche arc but I still love it whenever it’s used good
Man I really liked Bob.
Lauren Bennett i didn't, he was boring
I knew he was dead from the moment he was introduced tbh. I liked him too, so it was sad, but not shocking. I'm pretty sure everyone knew he was going to die when he said he would go instead of Hopper. He raised too many death flags to count.
SenoritaPotatoes i thought he was rvil and using his clueless uncle persona as a front tbh. Then when he died I was like oh....
KveldeCfaft Then tell what's wrong with it? All my life I lived out of English society and never systematically learn it.
Bob Newby - Superhero
3:36 I was actually expecting Bob to be an undercover agent meant to keep an eye on Will by posing as a bumbling stepdad. It made perfect sense too: why wouldn't the government want to keep Will in their sights? It also would have made his dialogue in the car with Will have much darker implications: that he was deliberately misleading Will into letting the Mindflayer infect him, just because It would allow the government to experiment further with the effects of the Upside Down. When it turned out that none of this was true, and he really was "what you see is what you get" it felt all the more refreshing, and I was genuinely upset at his death.
+MicahsDead I know, right! He's one of the reasons why I've come to characterize Stranger Things as "pastiche, but not cliché".
bartholen except for ep 7 amirite
+empty sky Yeah. I don't really count it, since when I say the series is pastiche, I mean 80's pastiche. Ep 7 is so out of kilter with the rest of the series it could really take place anytime in the last 60 years. But yes, ep 7 is definitely cliché.
Same here. He seemed way too nice to be a "good guy". I didn't trust him untill he died... :(
omg...that's what I thought too...like he intentionally made will stay because he knew it would happen....he deserved better
One thing which ruined it quite a bit were all the cheap hollywood tricks, like the fake jump scares in the beginning, and it drove me crazy how Bob just stood there before going outside in episode 8, rather than running to get away from the animals that can break doors like a rational person.
Because it would've probably went for Joyce dumbass
Joyce can run too, dumbass
Nameless Guy
1. Putting a stupid fucking name in the front of my reply won't make it any easier to make someone get notified when I reply to them, it only makes it easier to let someone know who I'm replying to, dumbass.
2. I didn't even get notified by you, but instead got notified by violetinestan - someone who didn't even reply to me, how's that? Dumbass.
3. Joyce was super near the fucking door, dumbass.
I miss Bob
@@uniqueplayz7979 No
in my opinion, the thing that made season 1 so good was how well Eleven played off of the boys. The chemistry of those 4 is what really made me love the show. I thought seeing Will in the group and even the addition of Max was a fun time, but I spent the whole series waiting for El to see her friends again. And then she stared at Mike for a bit, said something to Dustin about his teeth, and then that was it. I think they had like a solid minute of contact that whole second season. I was just really disappointed in that aspect.
I love the father/daughter vibe between El and Hopper. Reminds me of Joel and Ellie’s relationship dynamic from the Last of Us.
idk did not think of his, but a great reference. Can’t wait for part 2.
idk actually that was the intention by the writers
-both old grizzled men who lost a daughter named Sarah
-has a father/daughter like relationship with young girls who have a unique trait to them
No shout out for my boy Steve Harrington???!!!???
Excuse me???!?!? BOY??!!! It's pronounced like this, "No shout out for my best *MOM* Steve Harrington?!??!"
@@diptalukdar1 King Steve Harrington???
Very brave to go after this one bro
I admire your courage
12:45 what should have happened to episode 7.
It is indeed I agreed with a few of the things this guy had to say and some I didn't. So, the cliche things that he pointed out I mean yeah it is obvious but you got to remember it's going to be show tribute to the 80's their going throw in things like that. For Example: Dustin finding Dart is almost the same concept as Gremlins and it's kind of neat that even though it's predictable with some of it's things but yeah, episode 7 blowed haha. That's just my opinion, hope you dudes enjoyed it, I thought it was really cool.
Why is he “brave” for going after it?
draft galosa cause he's in the minority
draft galosa because very few people like to accept any negative comment about there favourite show and I know a lot of people who like S2 of ST better then S1.
I give your sense of humor a 10/10
But that's just a pix
*A NIXPIX*
Thanks for Watching
but that's just a Kenobi
*AN OBI WAN KENOBI*
Thanks for watching
But that’s just a theory
*A GAME THEORY*
Thanks for watching!
But hey, thats just a thing.
*A STRANGE THING*
Thanks for watching.
(I mean come on, how did i beat somebody to this)
Louitic game theory yay
Game theory fucking sucks go watch TH-camrs who make actually good content
if it had been my coach, Season 2 would be lucky to still be on the team
Woofy niiiiiiiice
Yes, but if we look at all the hundreds and hundreds of shows that are worse, and the fact that absolutely no show (not at least that I know of) is without faults, then it's still a pretty good season as whole...If you don't like it, that's fine, and maybe you like other shows that I don't like, but you also see how this is to a big extend an opinion thing? Who says which show is good or bad actually...each to their own
Inan Endlessspaceflying first of all what does yout comment have to do with this guys comment, youre expressing that there are different opinions. Ok you didnt tell anything new. Nobody was stating in this comment chain that season 2 is definitively worse, they were as you are stating their opinion. Why do you feel an urge to state the obvius. "apple" is a fruit, did you learn anything and did i contribute anything with that statement thst an apple is a fruit?
I didn't enjoy the plot for S2 but S1 made me so attached to the characters that whatever they experience (even fillers) seemed interesting and important. Like they're becoming a part of my now-memories
Exactly! Some people complain eps 1-3 were boring as hell, for me they were actually the best part of season 2, where we finally learn what our favourite characters have been doing for the last year. That was awesome! :D In all honesty, I'd be prefectly happy if season 3 focused only on everyday lives of the protagonists :P Forget action, forget monsters, I just want to see El trying to adjust to her new life, go to school for the first time, and Steve hanging out more with the kids, lol :D
The best thing about ST are the characters. I hope next season we get a human villain instead of another monster
What I can't get over is instead of EL using ANGER as her fuel when closing the gate she should have used LOVE for her friends. thats why she left right? the fact that she uses anger just make Ep7 even more pointless as there is no epiphany for her. it would have been awesome for her to try to use anger and then fail and then suddenly think about all of the people in her life she is saving and then be able to close it. that always bugged me along with ep 7
ACTruitt Exactly. The message in the show quite disturbed me there.
I mean- while the anger thing was eh, with the power of tHE lOVe fOR hEr fRIENDs would've been cliche and stupid- good point though
I hope Season 3 fixes that up.
I see where you are coming from, but the "power of love amd happiness bla bla bla" cliche is wayy to common.
You guys do realize if she was thinking about love at that moment, it wouldn’t be strong enough to close the gate? Also, Episode 7 was great.
My main issue with the second season is that there was not nearly enough group encounters, instead I feel like this season focused on two person groups, and it really could have benefited from more. Or at least make the duo's interesting and mix up the duo's, like Dustin and Steve being a great example.
Exactly!!! I felt like the end of the season worked really well because when everyone was together it felt like all one complete storyline, but with the two person groups that the rest of the season had it felt like there we multiple shows, as none of the main characters interacted anymore. Season one was simple, you had the kids, the teens, and the adults, which worked well as there were less small groups and instead three big groups, meaning they could all easily connect and focus on one plot.
I can understand your criticism, but I cannot stop loving this season. Even with some obvious flaws, it just feels nice to watch it.
Allana DDC That’s why he tried to make it balanced......so people don’t think it was ALL about the bad stuff.
Allana DDC I agree I actually like this season more than the first.
Allana DDC exept episode 7
Sorry i hated it
I loved all of it but ep 7 it just makes me cringe AND its pretty useless in the plot
There's nothing wrong with loving something that is flawed, I just think you have to be able to recognize that nothing is perfect
Season one, at least to me, felt much more purpose driven and a deep and epic story in it's own right, while season two felt much more like an extension of season 1 and kind of felt a bit like a middle story
The reason it's not as good as the first is because the Duffer Brothers had no idea this show was going to turn into the pop-culture phenomenon it wound up becoming and they sortof blew their whole load and unloaded all their firepower in the first season. Once they realized they were as big as GoT or Breaking Bad they decided to use season two to build new plotlines and characters that would make the show much more sustainable in the long-run. I say wait till season 3 before we seal this show's fate. We don't want another Battlestar Galactica on our hands.
+David Cantor-Yeah, it's pretty obvious there wasn't any grand plan with this show, even to begin with. It was only supposed to be a "one and done" deal, and even then. . .the last episode of season one was anti-climatic and. . .not well planned out. It felt like it was just rushing to get everything over with and very big storylines were just. . .dropped. . .without ceremony or significance. . .I just gave it far more leniency at the time because there was going to be a season two and whether the Duffer Brothers had intended the series to end at season one or not, I had hoped they would spend the extra time with season two trying to clear up some of the mysteries left over from season one. . .
:/. . .I only made it into three episodes of season two before I had to stop. Nothing left over from season one has attempted to be explained-or at least in a satisfying way (the implication that Eleven had expended her all power and physically died but some of her "essence" was still left in the Upside Down-yeah, actually, she was perfectly fine, and managed to get out of there-within five minutes. . .that was what the Duffer Brothers felt was adequate after nine extra months of trying to think this out. . .). They even just throw in one GIANT monster into the mix, without even bothering to explain just what the heck was up with the last one. . .It's just Lost all over again-the show is just going to spin its wheels for a few more seasons and just pile mysteries on top of more mysteries without bothering to explain any one of them. . .
The shady government agency, arguably the greatest villains in this series, is mostly a non-presence in the first three episodes and just spend way too much time twirling their mustaches and forcing Hopper to work with them for. . .reasons. . .While Mike, Hopper, and Eleven are still extremely likable (one of the brighter parts of the first three episodes was the fact Hopper has become a surrogate father to Eleven-awww. . .)-and SO FAR, Steve has proven to be a likeable individual-everyone else either has not been fleshed out further, or have sunken even further to be reprehensible.
That applies to BOTH Dustin and Nancy. Dustin willfully turning a blind eye and failing to realize his new "pet" is a Demigorgon and when faced with facts, thinks that Mike is just jealous-because he's upset that Mike has been hanging out with chicks-that pushes him into a whole new level of despicable than what he was in season one. Meanwhile, Nancy further realizes what an ass she was to Barbara in season one-not a bad thing-but she's a colossal ass to Steve because of it-treats him like absolute shit at every opportunity-and then. . .proceeds to hang out and tease the other boy she rejected, knowing full well he still has feelings for her. . .(Stop with the %^%^%^ pandering, Duffer Bros. YOU were the ones who insisted Nancy and Steve get together. . .at least STICK WITH IT. . .)
The first three episodes alone were honestly so bad that it just killed any incentive I had to keep going. To be blunt, I had no reason to keep going. . .and nothing I've heard so far indicates that the show got significantly better later on in the season. . .Perhaps someone is willing to tell me that, but at the moment, my interest in this show has just absolutely flatlined. . .And it would take season three to be significantly better before I give this series another chance. . .And so far, it has been less than deserving of a second chance. . .
@@feraflauna3238 Mike was not likeable at all in season 2, what are you talking about. He was a total asshole the entire runtime and every moment he was on screen I wanted to tear my hair out
"they sortof blew their whole load"???? 🤨
@@feraflauna3238 The final episode of season 1 wasn't anti climatic and it was well planned out. It didn't feel like that at all.
There was stuff from season one that was attempted to explained and at least in a satisfying way. And that was satisfying. They explain that they are all creatures from the same place. It isn't lost at all. Nah that isn't what's happening.
Nah they are a presence in the first three episodes. Most characters have been fleshed out and haven't sunken to be reprehensible.
He isn't despicable...just jealous, it's a normal human emotion. Steve was a jerk too before...and she had issues she had to face first....she changed too. Yeah and she liked Jonathan. Well....things change.
They weren't bad at all. It did get better though. It more then deserves a second chance.
EPISODE 7! HOLY SHIT YES! I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO HATED IT!
Aiden Bettinger no you didn’t
Lol everyone agrees that it was the weakest episode by far
Literally!!!!
@Hailey, not everyone. There are people in the comment section who talk about how they actually liked the episode.
Lmao literally everyone is crying about it
i completely forgot about that stupid punk gang that Eleven got involved with. My mind blocked them out i think.
Yeah, it was pretty pointless
What punk gang?
@@misterfancy9528 Kali's gang in 2x07
Only thing that el got from her “sister” was better strength for her powers by fuelling herself with hate
Litty Pug and surely that is the antithesis of the whole show. The message we get throughout the season is that love makes you stronger and then we have that one hamfisted moment to the make the awful Cauliflower character make sense.
I think anger is a better word for what motivated her. Hate may be antithetical to love, but anger isn't. You can be appropriately angry that your loved ones are being threatened (as in El's friends and family), and you can be angry that you didn't receive the love you deserved ( as was the case with Papa).
Not true at all. You have to understand she's never been out there in the world much - and as it is emphasized with her "word of the day" thing, we know she still has to learn a lot about what everything means. And one of the things she struggles with is the concept of family, what it means to belong, not to mention a classic hero journey, subtype "what is the right thing to do". Go rewatch the episode again from that perspective, it's amazing and necessary for her growth.
anger is a path to the d a r k s i d e
Litty Pug *DEW IT*
While I still liked S2, it made me practically despise some of the characters because of the writing. Almost everyone of the main characters behave like asses in S2, but especially Nancy and sadly Dustin, whom I really loved in S1, take stupidity to a whole new level!
Nancies idiotic infatuation with "bringing down the lab" would have been ok at the end of S1, but now that we have a helpful character as lead scientist, wo actually EXPLAINS to her how they're keeping the darkness at bay, I was practically screaming at her for continuting with her plan. These people had nothing to do with the original fuck up and were actually trying to rectify it. But, no, BARB (who I couldn't care less about in comparison with trying to quarantine the rift) is so much more important.
Dustin, because he just insists on raising a monster while EVERYONE else realises pretty early what it could be. He doesn't even bat an eye when Dart muders his cat! And I agree, IF the goal would have been to learn more about the Demo-Dogs and how to fight them, it would have been awesome, but not just because Dustin wants a new pet.
Also it pissed me off that the boys were always bickering and more or less doing their own thing. Oh and how Mike constantly insists on being a dick to Max! And yes, E7. Better not talk about that train wreck.
For me S2 was carried by Hopper and Steve, who both have great character development. Also, props to Bob, who started out as a goofball sidekick and got better and better with every episode.
Yeah, well said and I absolutely agree! And it really made me sad, as they had such great chemistry in the first season. You really got the feeling they were close and always gave their all for the party.
Demo dogs lmao
I loved the scenes where mike was rude to max, I didn't really care for her character and it showed development in mikes character. max being forced into the group mad him feel like everyone was forgetting and trying to replace el so he felt defensive.
@FerrowTheFox, Dustin's desire to keep the monster (Dart) was due to hisr attachment issues and need for
attachement. So with Dart, he felt like he was making a friend.
Great stuff! I was worried for a minute here, because I quite liked S2, but the video turned out to be really balanced and nuanced. Far more nuanced, in fact, than I fear the commenters here will end up being. Your critiques of Episode 7 are spot-on, and everything you said about this season repeating much of the original is accurate. For sure, S1 is undoubtedly a much more well-thought-out and concise piece of television than S2. There's no question of that. That said, I think the emotional core (and the flat-out fun) still ring true in the sequel. And that - paired with the characters - is enough to make me love it despite its flaws.
Additional note, just a nitpick (OR SHOULD I SAY NITPIX): I think it's valid to point out that the ending scene with the Mind Flayer in the Upside Down is accompanied by the song lyrics "every step you take, every move you make, I'll be watching you" and "can't you see...you belong to me." I believe it's more than just a forced cliffhanger - it's a sign that El is being watched by the monster now, and she's on its radar.
I agree. I liked Season 2 and still agree with most of the video.
HoustonProductions1 I wonder if she's going to get possessed like Will it would be interesting but I don't want it to happen.
smokie tkd28705 that would be interesting
Mate I️ see you commenting on so many videos I️ watch it’s insane. But I️ guess it means you have really good taste
Yea
I ended up disliking Max in season 2. I felt she didn't have much of a reason to be there aside from causing El to leave when she could have met with mike, and giving Lucas someone to have a romantic relationship with. Max also caused issues by creating s rift between Dustin and Lucas, as well as releasing Dart. It mostly felt like she and her brother and the rest of her family were unnecessary. I don't like how she was introduced either. "Oh, that game we are all super competitive over and work hard on improving ourselves with has a MysTeRiOuS nEw HiGh ScOrE?? I'M SO ANGRY! WE NEED TO FIND OUT WHO DID THIS! Wait, it's a girl? Sweet, I wanna get with her!!" It seemed artificial and honestly just made me think of Max as some special snowflake, and it became obvious she would only create more issues instead of helping the plot in some way. Her whole character and her family just seemed like an annoying, cheap way to add more drama aside from the whole Mind Flayer fiasco. I think season 2 would have been much better without her or Billy, or episode 7.
CatsAndBears she kinda just pushed herself in the story & I didn’t like that at all.
CatsAndBears she wasn't that bad she is a bad ass
I like Max as a character, I just wish they had introduced her differently. I thought it was kinda gross that the boys basically stalked her for the first half of the season. Although she does call them out as stalkers it still underplays how gross and scary being stalked/ followed actually is. It would have been way better if they had introduced her in a situation where she was somehow involved/ exposed to the upside down, because frankly I felt like that scene where Lucas was pining over her and trying to explain everything to her was just a big waste of time considering that as an audience we already knew what happened last season. Altogether I thought it was a really lazy way to introduce a character, especially compared to the stellar character introductions in S1.
max was put in to create that sort of tension between dustin and lucas (and mike and el). she was kind of out there to make the audience think that mike would have forgotten about el. i think she has an important role and would make a pretty interesting member to the party. i say wait until the third season to see what she’s capable of :)
All of those things you’ve said about Max was wrong. Season 2 wouldn’t have worked as well as it did without Max, her family, and especially Episode 7 which was such an important part of Eleven’s journey.
lmao i guess no one noticed subtitles at 11:05
Nice catch. I don't watch with subtitles on, so, yeah, I completely missed this!
looool
😂😂😂😂
The second season was like my second relationship... I forgot most of it, but it wasn't terrible... Also, nice Goonies music during the Bob segment
Ben Walters would be nice to have been in a relationship to forget...sigh. I'm a very sad person disregard me.
Alex Marko You know relationships arent everything
You had a Bob segment of your last relationship?
Ben The Ghost Writer Considering Sean Astin (Bob) played Mikey in the Goonies.
Yeah I didn't like Season 2 that much. It was good but something was missing and I can't put my finger on what. It's driving me nuts talking to people and not being able to explain why I didn't like it as much.
Of course aside from Episode 7, which was straight up fucking terrible.
Maybe the fact that the original group is often separated ? I have the same feeling, something is missing and by looking it twice, I thing the four boys were a bit in the back of the story. I don't know, but hey, it was good anyway !
Yeah it felt like the writers divided them into Important (mike and will) and Not As Important (Dustin, Lucas and max). Although I didn’t mind it as much bc it happens irl as well- in bigger friendship groups there is always that one person you are closer to than the others. But the fact that they seemingly only included max to cause tension really bums me out, especially as a former tomboy lol
Yeah, exactly ! It's too bad because they all have their own identity and theirs interactions together are interesting, perhaps their none-interactions are too.
That bothers me a lot. I mean, the character is new, interesting, pretty cool but she never really has the chance to rise. She gets rid of his "brother" and that was a good scene but other than that, she is, like you say, juste here to put tensions with Eleven, Mike and the others and of course, between Lucas and Dustin. I hope they will work her more next season !
I feel exactly the same. It was good, acting was sooo on point, CGI and other effects were good, BUT there's still something missing.
I hate to say this but imo El is the weakest link in season 2. Her obsession with Mike is cheesy and her adventure to her mom give us ep 7. The worst part how her power got godlike upgrade in finale, when she closed the gate, which is pretty lame process overall.. In season 1 her power got depleted so much that she can barely walk after finding Will in upside down. And again when she protect her friends from the government. And ofc at the very end when she defeated demorgorgon which disintegrate both of them. This season there's no real sense of urgency/danger for her. Ofc she's going to close it either way, DUH, the only question is how, and I'm not impressed. The only good thing is her relationship with Hopper.
Finally someone that has the guts to say it. Most people would shy away from critiquing because of the huge fan base.
I'm actually a bit harsher on Stranger Things 2 than you are. I think it was a bigger, dumber version of Season 1 in almost every respect. Sure, we get some good character combinations like Eleven and Hopper or Dustin and Steve, but its at the expense of the trope subversion that Steve was shown to be in Season 1 by having him and Nancy split up so quickly.
Mike was in a holding pattern the whole season while being a jerk, the new girl Max didn't add anything to the story except being a romantic object for Dustin and Lucas to fight over, Nancy and Jonathan's hook-up feels forced, Sean Astin is wasted as the cringey, cliche "nice guy that is definitely going to die", and Eleven is kept away from the main story until the end because she'd just instantly save the day with her powers again. Oh, and the #JusticeForBarb thing seemed to have seeped its way into the show and pushed the story in a way that the writers didn't know how to properly handle. Season 2 was mostly bad.
Agree with a lot of that. The downgrading of Mike was very annoying as well as how they established he was acting out: they just announce it at the dinner table when his parents are ordering him to fill boxes of toys for a yard sale. They don't show us him acting out besides being a dick to Max. That's disappointing. Instead he just basically hangs with will and Joyce til El comes back. It's a waste.
It also comes at the cost in that a seemingly obvious character relationship is never addressed in S2: Mike and Nancy's sibling relationship. They are the only two of the main cast to have lost someone very close in S1, Eleven and Barb. They live under the same roof with this common loss, grief and anger and their parents are oblivious to the truth. Yet, it has no effect on them at all. It doesn't drive them closer or anything. They have one interaction all season when Mike steals her money and she chases him out of the house and that's it. How do you overlook something like that? They were too preoccupied with getting Nancy and Jonathan together which was also sloppy and made little sense. Why would Jonathan decide to take on the same lab treating Will for his problems? It just doesnt make sense. Even worse, the journalist they go to and give the BIGGEST NEWS STORY ABOUT THE BIGGEST SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY OF ALL TIME (existence of alternate dimensional planes and literal existence of evil monsters) and he tells them to hide it all. What journalist on fucking Earth would hide that?
Some of S2 is kind of crazy to be honest. Episode 7 is very bad most people agree with that, but the rest of the season has major flaws and holes too.
njdss4 I couldn’t agree more
Fuck off you bitch!
JDela10 totally agree. Mike was my favorite character. He was the smart, outgoing caring dude, and really was a great actor and character. He was pretty much the main character of season one as he drove everything, which felt perfect, but since everybody loved dustin they made mike a jerk and shoved him away for the whole season to focus on Dustin. Not saying Dustin is bad, he was super funny and a great edition to season one, but he never should have become a/the main character. I still think season one should have been the only season.
I think the weakest link character-wise was Billy. The Duffer Brothers claimed the needed him as a new human antagonist after Steve's character ark, and I guess that makes sense (though I don't think it's as necessary as they claim), but everything about him came across as just really cliche and one dimensional. Like yes, I suppose the abusive father thing counts as development, but it's so predictable and overused that it doesn't come across as a very strong choice in the writing.
I kind of think the Duffer Brothers are just bad with bully characters in general, bc one of the few things I didn't like about season 1 was the characterization of those bullies that preyed on Mike, Dustin, Lucas, and Will. They felt perhaps even flatter than Billy, with literally no motivation for anything they did. Like yeah, I guess the whole "they're 12 and feel the need to exert their dominance over the weaker boys by being assholes" thing is sort of implied, but that doesn't explain how they are somehow weirdly antagonistic enough to laugh at Will's disappearance and try to force one Mike to jump off a cliff. The Duffer Brothers have mentioned one of their sources of inspiration for the show being Steven King's It, and these bullies sort of come across like Henry Bowers and his crew, but the difference between them and Henry is that Henry is actually certifiably insane to the point that even some of his friends start objecting to what he's doing, not the mention he eventually ends up falling under the complete control of It, who he sees as some sort of voice of reason that whispers to him through the moon. The Stranger Things bullies, however, are never taken this seriously and continue to just be played off as schoolyard bullies that Eleven quickly deals with, despite how they literally attempted to murder Mike.
Season 2 was overall a major disappointment for me. The pacing versus the first season was slowed to a crawl - nothing interesting even takes places until episode 3, unlike season one where I was hooked and questioning what was happening 15 minutes into the first episode.
The cliches were really really rough for me to swallow in season two as well. I couldn't believe my eyes when 11 stumbled upon Mike and Max and misread the situation. That is such a tired and cheap plot device that it boggled my mind to think the same writers of the incredible season one were apparently satisfied with that scene.
I found it unbelievable that Dustin kept that pet and didn't think it was completely retarded to house a monster from the upside down in his own home.
And like you pointed out, everything that happened with 008 and her ragtag crew made me wanna crap my pants. I can only imagine Netflix forced them to make such a rushed piece of crap cause they want to make a spinoff series later and cash in even more on this IP.
Most of the plot and danger in this season could have been avoided if the characters acted somewhat intelligently. And what was with Mike acting like an butthole the whole season? He was my favorite character, but then he became one of the most annoying people in the whole season.
I completely agree with everything except the Mike thing. Mike was acting up, but it was because he was separated from eleven. He went into a depression after she left.
Yeah, I hated how they handled Mike, Nancy and Steve’s break up for Jonathan ( I wanted Nancy and Jonathan but not like that, cause now I hate them and love Steve even tho I loved him last season ).
ST2 jumped the shark way too much and turned Eleven into a superhero type of character. This whole season really just missed the mark for me completely and pretty much bored me. Really didn't like it. I still love Stranger Things as a whole, and this season's flop didn't discourage my admiration of the show, but holy hell it was quite a mess for me. Still looking forward to season 3, but I'm hoping it's better (personally; I'm sure other people loved this season and that's fine).
1. The bad episode was episode 7 not 8
2. If "Eleven" not 11, didnt meet Kali she wouldnt have learned how to harness her powers and therefore woulnt have been strong enough to close the gate.
3. Mike was acting that way because he was missing Eleven and felt like his friends were replacing her with Maxine. It also didnt seem like Mike was able to comunicate how he was feeling about loosing Eleven (who was his first crush, first kiss, and best friend!)
Ashley Larocque Eleven should've learned her powers on her own instead of the cliche route of a hero's journey like what they did in Star Wars. A good example of this is Sarah Connor in Terminator 2. I really felt like the 'gang' Kali was with was totally unnecessary. And Kali could've been a more interesting ambivalent character with a more interesting backstory. I felt she was wasted in it which is a shame.
Very good video. I like that you established what made season 1 great so your season 2 criticisms had a baseline of quality attached. I do wish you had talked about Max and Billy more, though.
Thanks man, appreciate it. I did but I decided to cut it.
Max and Billy were generic, walking cliches that felt so forced into the plot.
I kind of liked Max. Billy was absolutely terrible though, he didn't really add much, and they already had a character just like him in the first season anyway, Steve's jerk friend whose name I forget.
+Nathan Eskin Tommy is more of a pathetic lapdog.
Despite enjoying the series for the most part (Especially the first few episodes) I now seem to remember several moments where I would be keenly interested, and in other scenes I would just turn off. I've now had my brain retuned by this video and I now understand why.
Audio was perfect btw I didn't do as much squinting of the ears this time. ;))))))
I thought the characters were just so.... out of character. Like in the first season, you see that the boys are just kids. They can be selfish and quick witted but they’re a team and they embrace and acknowledge that. Having Dustin be completely selfish about keeping dart and putting the rest of them in danger just left a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth.
I was pretty disappointed by the "Mind Flayer". It didn't even seem that threatening and the dogs were more of a problem to most of the characters.
I think that they just wanted to introduce to Mind Flayer and have it be the big baddie for the next arc.
They were a much bigger threat than the demogorgon in Season 1.
Oh the mind flayer ain't dead... He is gonna really fuck some shit up in season 3
Vandit Kumar u have no idea how correct u are😂
@@jasonk.2124 yeah ikr!? 😂.... Just finished S3, it was a wild ride!
Great video, completely agree with all of your points, loved the intro. The ending was actually said by The Duffer Brothers to mean the Mind Flayer is still watching them and is still a threat as he knows their every moves, and of course, like the Demogorgon is season 1, he can make other gateways. Just thought I’d let ya know! But enjoyed the video and the way you ripped on episode 7 got so funny 😂
I love smaller channels. They feel infinitely more personal. I love your content thanks!
Holy shit I just assumed he had at least 100k subs because of the quality content. He definitely deserves more.
What if: Max found D'art, so that there was a bit more of a 1) reason she was in the show and 2) gives her purpose and 3) makes one of the main characters finding him in a trashcan not seem so stupidly coincidental?
I think that episode 7 the lost sister should have been an netflix original film they should have released the film after the series to in intreege the audience into wanting to know what 11 did so all the characters would have more development and feel like real people. I still really enjoyed watching the episode.
season 1 was self contained enough that it worked as a drawn out movie. season 2 didnt really need to happen at all because there was nothing left to say the cliff hanger at the end of season 1 where it should have happily ended was just tacked on to create season 2. there was no mystery or real adventure in season 2 just kind of a bunch of stuff loosely threaded together so the characters could interact as the plot very slowly unraveled. then had a predictable and pointless finale where ell just uses her powers and all the bad stuff just stops. i wonder how far they'll keep pushing the the series until calling it finished? regardless it was still nice enough to watch it just didnt really need to happen...
There's a little metric that I sometimes use for measuring how much I enjoy a show or film, it's how much I skip.
If I don't find a particular element of a show or film interesting or engaging I skip it, this is really easy on Netflix especially because I can look at what's at certain points without going to them by hovering over the time marker with my cursor (and on Netflix it's clearer than most other places from what i've seen).
Season 1: I don't think I skipped more than 3 or 4 scenes total. I was engaged throughout and the mysteries found within combined with the interesting characters made me want to watch as much of it as I could.
Season 2: I probably skipped half of what went on. I didn't give a shit about the mystery of who had higher arcade scores, most of what went on at school, the ginger girl who was obviously just there to stir things up for when 11 came back, her brother, the conspiracy theorist or the odd love triangle sub-plot with the sister and the two guys.
I understand why they separated 11 from the others for most of the show but I think that's actually the main reason they had so many writing issues this season (i'm only 1 minute into the video by the way, this is less a response to it and more of a collection of my thoughts on the matter before they get swayed this way or that by what Nitpix says)
They had to fill the hole in the stories that could be filled by "just have 11 solve it" or "they won't be sad if 11 is there" by putting in mundane bullshit.
Yes there were unnecessary bits and pieces in season 1 but they were manageable and they didn't bog down the rest of the show.
Good point, what you said for season two is how I felt and even what you concluded made sense to me.
Ok but same
I wonder whose behind the door? Could it be El? *-NoOo WaAaAaY-*
Bruuuh subscribed haha good content and funny with charisma. I like you :)
lhollins It wasn’t supposed to be suspenseful. The uploader is just desperate for content
He says “It’s a great show with 80s tropes” and then says “it’s so predictable!!1”
Season 2 can have a great 80's vibe and be predictable in some ways, lol.
the suicide squad joke made me fucking fall off my chair ahahahahaha
I wanted to enjoy the gang from episode 7 because those actors I thought did a pretty great job, but the writing wasn't good enough or given enough time to make them actually compelling characters. Great actors, forgettable characters. The most unsatisfying combination.
The acting was good but I feel they were given a bad script
I must’ve seen a completely different version of that episode because The Lost Sister had great writing and an incredible character dynamic between El and Kali.
@@RyansChannel0203 what purpose did the episode serve? what was the point of that first part of episode 1 showing 008 if shes just gonna be turned away by el within one episode of meeting her.
@@Ravage017 To develop El's character and explore the lure of Hawkins Lab's experiments.
@@RyansChannel0203 develop els character how you can't just say develop and not say what they develop about her that's just a lazy argument
Season 2 was good but season one was way better
Your content is so good. Your points are well thought out and argued and your sense of humour is amazing. I binged your videos and ended up doubling back because it's just so good. Your content is completely underrated.
El visiting her mother was important so that she could meet that punk girl from the rainbow room so that she could learn from her how to harness her powers better. If this wouldn't have happened she would not have been able to close the gate. I also think that the crew of punks WERE using her and that was supposed to be how we feel. I also think that it's not the last time we will see them. Also, the crews characters were introduced in episode one, not the episode where el meets them. I also did not feel like the mohawk guy was a bad design for a character. It was very accurate to what street punks looked like in the 80's. That said, I do agree it was the worst episode and it felt a little alien.
btw, it's actually kinda dumb that she closed the gate with help of the hate. I thought that was whole cliche point of 7-th episode, like use power for good, for your love ones, blah blah, yoou get it. But to use hate and not love to save everyone doesn't make any sense character-wise.
Ringo Deathstarr exactly!! So I’m pretty sure she’s gonna find out with the help of some other person that actually with The Power of Love you can do much more than with hate or some other bs cliche
Exactly how i feel
Ringo Deathstarr i feel like in s3 it will be interesting to see how 11 balances her emotions and powers. I dont view her as i view the other kids (i still love her the same tho) because she IS dangerous, she can and did kill. I feel like she has to fully learn what death actually is. In the lab, before she escaped, we can see she doesnt think twice before killing someone. She never saw a human in them. She didnt know what love is. Its because she was never taught that. In ep 7, she didnt kill that guy, she saw that he had a family. She understood that death can affect people. And i feel like thats a really important thing. I agree that ep 7 was weird and that its not as good as the others, but we get more character developement. She understood that kalis gang is bad so she escaped. I feel like we will se more of them in s3, especially kali. Im also curious about other kids involved in the experiment. The episode opens a lot of new doors and im excited to see whats gonna happen next.
Ringo, it was anger that Eleven was feeling, not hate. Anger is a powerful emotion, and it can be productive. We tend to think of emotions as either negative or positive, that is a bit simplistic. Emotions just are what they are, it is how we channel them that matters. Anger can tell us we aren't being treated fairly, or that someone has violated our boundaries, or that we need to change our life.
Anyways, since this is a series, and Eleven will be learning more about her powers as time goes on, it makes sense that while anger made her powers strong enough to seal the gate, they are still not strong enough to destroy the being that lives in the upside-down. She is going to have to tap into emotions that are stronger than anger in order to do that. Basically, her character is going to grow with her powers, she is going to learn about herself, her strengths, her weaknesses, etc etc etc.
Ok I know I’m gonna get fucking torched for this but am I the only one who despised max
The only thing I will give to the creators is that Max’s existence made it tense at the beginning the question was why is she there,what did she do all we know is that she came from California and her brother is a douche I feel that she was wasted and the love triangle sub plot made me annoyed,as said in this video I feel that there was a lot of missed opportunities with playful and structured dialogue explaining characters but with max there were very few and by the end we know that she is good at dig dug,her step brother is a douche and she likes Lucas.
End note.I feel it’s appropriate to add that max wasn’t ‘standing up to her brother’ it was an instant decision and he had his back turned she had the advantage and in that current moment there was a 0% chance of her getting hurt I just don’t understand,Thank you for hearing my shitty opinion
simon Doyle I agree my dude,
simon Doyle maybe if her step dad worked at the lab it would have added more to her character and possibly the overall story
Dude I totally agree I just commented and said that I felt like they were added in for run time. Idk why but I felt like her character somehow took away from the original group of boys relationships, like when el was introduced it felt natural and this time it just felt forced like oh dudes like video games and what madmax is a girl?!? idk I was waiting for some sort of plot twist like showing her brother was part of the government or something and nope he's just a douche. idk I didn't really care for her being added and I kind of hope she is more of a side character in the next season
I actually feel in a similar way I don't dislike her but I also have no interest in her character right now maybe that will change in the next season but right now I feel like she doesn't give anything new to the show and her character is kind of unnecessary and only good for creating conflicts between characters or deepening existing conflicts.
I felt the same way when I started watching, I just saw her as rude and obnoxious and I still do, she’s just not my cup of tea
Eleven did learn how to close the gate from Number 8 so it wasn't complete waste of time. She showed EL how to maximize her powers but thinking about what you hate most. They even do a callback to that episode when she closing the gate so the fact you said it didn't help her close the gate is confusing tbh.
I definitely didn’t like Stranger Things 2 as much as the first one, and I think you made a lot of really valid points. Also, I absolutely unbelievably LOATHED episode 7. It was 100% my least favorite part of the entire show. I spent the entire episode wondering when we’d finally move on and get back to Hawkins because GOD those plots were somewhat flawed but AT LEAST they were interesting and had characters that I cared about. I knew from the second I saw the intro to the season that wouldn’t enjoy the characters when they popped back up later. The episode just felt so shallow compared to the rest of the show. It really bothered me and genuinely lowered my enjoyment of the season as a whole
I would hate for someone I've been telling to watch stranger things for months to finally watch stranger things, and this be the first episode they see.
I think that's my greatest concern about first impressions lol
*We don't talk about episode 7; please leave it in the trash*
Fuck you with all disrespect
Gxjgt he's probably a goth
People just dont understand its importance
Of Sound Mind it’s not it showed us who 8 was and that she knew Eleven it was a beautiful episode not trash ok
Are Stranger Things fans now reaching the “grasp at straws to defend a thing a majority of people criticize” part of the fandom, now? Because this whole “IT’S IMPORTANT AND SETS UP THE NEXT SEASON” shit is *laughable.*
Another brilliant video - there really are fantastic
It took me four days to watch episode seven. Four days. That is not a good sign.
No mention of Steve? Pretty sure he's my favourite mum now.
I love Steve so much. He was the best part of season 2 imo.
You thought the Dr Who hate was bad, just you wait for the Stranger Things fans to get ahold of your video...
I got fifteen minutes into episode 7 and never finished the season... that’s how I felt about it😂
Stfu
Unique playz well episode 7 was trash.
@@uniqueplayz7979 bitch
Why didn’t u just SKIP THE EPISODE
Yeah that’s easily the worst episode in the entire series.
*stands and starts the slow clap* subscribing to your channel based on this video alone. Well well done. I loved (and still love) ST1, but you nailed everything right and wrong with ST2. Bravo.
Why doesnt this channel have 1 million subscribers i dont understand
SERIOUSLY!!
The Truth I think it's a newer Channel. He doesn't seem to have that many videos uploaded
Because rice gum exists
The Truth
Because 1,000,000 TH-cam accounts haven't subscribed to the channel yet.
The Truth it's like 9 months old
Season 2 was a letdown. Characters that didn't really need to be introduced for the story to flow as they felt thrown in. Plus, too many parts where the story seems to just forget about new side characters until randomly bringing them back into it.
Hail To The Chin agreed
Wish they had spent more time working out the scripts. I'd always rather wait a little longer for a better story, than settle for something that was rushed to market :(
I was so bored with season 2. And as something happened i believe in episode 8, i didn't even care anymore.
I mean...the idea for episode 7 wasn't bad they just executed it poorly
Julia Nobody loves a backdoor pilot.
Nah the idea sucked too
I was massively disappointed with season 2. It just seemed like LOOK AT L LOOK HOW EDGY AND COOL SHE IS WITH SLICK BACK HAIR. what? And the death of Bob was so predictable it's a joke. Nothing was intense and the ending was predictable. Good thing NO ONE WAS KILLED EXCEPT CHARACTERS WHO WERE JUST BROUGHT IN WOAH WHAT A SUPRISE
I think you pinpointed almost every issue I had while watching the show. Most importantly how contradictory it is that they have worked so hard building up the characters we love as REAL humans, with their qualities and flaws, and then they write the story in the most coincidental way possible.. It takes away the realness of the character and makes it evident that the writers are pulling the strings to have charater A meet character B right when event C is about to happen. You know there are monsters and alternate dimensions and stuff... but they are supposed to feel real, this was achieved in season 1, but season 2 feels so much more like fantasy (or a template of another fantasy).... And what about the STUPID MAP??.... Will could tell the monster is spreading under the ground, but "hey I feel creative so just let me go through a pound of coke and fill the house with random sribbles" which are so vaguely drawn and can be matched however you want... It just makes no sense that you reproduce a precise map out of it. Not to mention all the sudden epiphany every character needs to have in order to solve the puzzle and realize "hey, it's a map of the town!" when it's been so obvious that it IS A F*ING MAP! Seriously, the writers need to stop it with the arbitrary puzzles where they're not needed.
This channel blows me away every time ever since I saw it in the featured tab, keep up the good work man.
TH-cam did something right for the first time. It recommended me this dope ass channel, nice.
I disliked Jonathan in both seasons, and I hated how they had to turn him into a creep to further the plot in Season 1. Like...really? That's so wrong, and then Steve gets kind of left in the dust.
poor steve :(
Ummm johnathon is great boi what are you talking about
Jonathan was already kind of a creep. Believe it or not, creeps exist. His character was very realistic.
Jonathan was likeable in season 1. But I hated it when he kissed Nancy.
Such a dick move. Poor my boi Steve.
He literally sneaks into someone's garden and takes photos of a teenage girl having sex whilst stalking her. Ill never understand why we are supposed to suddenly love him past that
I feel like Kali and her crew would've been more interesting if they added them as a sort of new villain, like somehow they found out about Eleven killing the Demogorgan and closing the gate and realizing how much power she actually has, maybe misunderstanding the Upside Down and thinking El can somehow have a sort of control over it and gain a larger power that allows them to get revenge on the world at a much faster and more devastating rate. Like, maybe Kali pretends to care about El and betrays her in the end after she does what they want? Idk just a thought
I liked that Steve ended up becoming a kind of "babysitter" to the boys but it totally came out of left field. I wish they had built up to that, maybe showing that in the year since the end of season one he had become a lot closer to the boys. It just seemed so sudden that he was randomly willing to risk his life to protect them
Personally I really did enjoy season 2, but there were some things I just found kind of off putting like the cheezy as fuck ending or the fact that apparently we were supposed to be thinking Steve was being a bad boyfriend even though it was Nancy who was acting uncharacteristically shitty toward him through the season. Also, Nancy's mom getting the hots for the new guy. And why did Joyce wait inside the doors of the building for Bob and why did he also seem to think that it was safe to stop running when he came to the lobby? Shouldn't one of them have been like "let's go, let's go - let's blow this banana stand already!"
OfTinúvielsKin EXACTLY!!! That's why I don't feel bad for Bob getting killed off
We all knew bob was gonna die in there, it was predictable. When he made it out for a second you think "i was wrong, he made it! Go bob!" then they pull the rug out from under you.
Except I was to occupied thinking "why are you stopping, you stupid piece of shit, do you want to die?!" to actually feel relieved.
From what I remember Steve was a jerk before though and I think that's what Nancy was mad about. What about Nancy's mom doing that? That isn't bad writing. Joyce should have kept on getting out. Bob thought he was safe as the demodogs didn't appear to be there anymore. I mean one of the was like that being Joyce.
@@alyissaaragon6943 Well I certainly didn't see it coming. Not everyone knew he was gonna die.
Liked the video but I wish you would have said something about Max. Because the truth is she's an added character who's flat. Anyone agree? Not trying to hate just saying!
Summer Poet418 totally agree I was hoping for something more from her character and it honestly just felt added for run time and the romance aspect as well as the friendship aspect with the rest of the boys felt completely forced as opposed to el where it felt more natural
Max part in the show hasn't been revealed yet, only hinted at. Basically, if you read between the lines, Max is somehow linked to the Shadow Monster. Think about it, she arrives in Hawkins and they learn about her because she topped Dustin's score on Dig Dug. Dig Dug is the name of the 5th episode where Hopper is trapped in the tunnels. For the record, the love triangle is also foreshadowed when Dustin fails to get Princess Daphne in Dragon's Lair, to which Lucas taunts him that the princess belongs to him, but nevermind.
Right after Max arrives, Will first sees the signs of the Shadow Monster when he has an episode at the arcade (again, right after they find out about MadMax). He doesn't actually see it, just a kind of storm coming. Later he sees it in an episode but its way off in the distance and may not even be aware of Will. The second time he sees it is when he is out trick or treating. It seems to hear him calling out Mike and moves in for a closer look. Max just happened to run into the boys right before this happened. The third time, when he confronts the Shadow Monster outside the school. Max is inside the school when he runs out onto the field (knocked off her board by Eleven).
Also, right after Max arrives, Hopper is called out to look at the rotting pumpkins and asks "so you say these were all fine yesterday?" Max started school that day, she literally has just arrived in Hawkins. Max didn't come alone of course, she is also with Billy, who seems to have an irrational hatred for anyone who gets close to Max, even though he seems to hate Max. It is so bad he was even going to attack Lucas in the finale. Max also continuously uses the word "stalker" throughout the season.
In the last scene, the closing song is "Every Breath You Take" by the Police, a song which is about a stalker. In the scene we see a totally surprising kiss between Lucas and Max right before El and Mike. Then, we flip upside down and the last words we hear with an echo'd sound effect is "Oh can't you see? You belong to me!" and the Shadow Monster is revealed as looking down into the school like the stalker he is. He seems mad too, surrounded by the storm. But wait.. how does he even know they are there? He has no spies left and the gate is closed?
The answer? Possibly, Max! Max and/or her family were stalked to Hawkins by this unseen force that has been affecting their lives. Max feels stalked and spied on, because she is being stalked and spied on all the time. Billy is somewhat influenced by the Shadow Monster which could explain why he's such a dick to Lucas. When they moved to California they unintentionally exposed this evil force in the upside down that was attached to them to an open gate, and to the unluckiest boy in Hawkins, the inter-dimensional travelling Will Byers.
There's more too, I just can't remember it now. I don't think she was introduced just as a potential love interest for the two boys. Her arrival coincides with the Shadow Monster for a reason!
Summer Poet418 I feel she was added purely to shake things up. She’s the outsider in the boys’ group that Eleven was in season one, giving us an opportunity to get to know the boys. But where Eleven then brought the story as well, Max had nothing except her baggage with her brother, which was something I really could’ve done without. Yes, Billy became something for Steve to do this season since Steve also got sidelined, but it also didn’t work for me.
I disagree. I felt she was integrated much better than the whole Billy saga. I think most people are opposed to Max's character being incorporated because of their devotion to Eleven's character (whereas I felt Eleven's storyline, arc and purpose within in this series was very very weak and farfetched).
JDela10 I think you're on to something. Would certainly make Season 3 very interesting.
The Mind flayer is a demon. He posessed Will. My thoughts kept going back to The Exorcist. If you remember in Exorcist, the demon also liked it very cold. The Mind flayer is much like Satan/Lucifer who hates God's creations which is humans. Not throwing any religion in there, just going off observations from what I've seen in the series. Just to use his demonic kin to kill and kill all the humans. The Mind flayer in my personal opinion, is a composite of evil, hate, and fear. Another analogy for him is an archon which feeds off of negative energy from beings.
I was really close to giving this a pre-thumbs down since I loved Season 2. However, I feel like you made great points, and the Duffer Brothers could definitely use the constructive criticism. Keep up the great content!
irrigger1 you should feel bad for thinking about down voting it because it disagreed with your opinion.
i kind of felt the same about the new season
I believe that the ending was meant to show that the mind flayer has pretty much locked in on the kids, especially with Eleven, whom it has some sort of weird connection with. That is taking into account the song that last played before the school turned to the upside down: 'Every breath you take' which is a very stalker-ish song. The last lyrics that were heard were 'oh can't you see, you belong to me'. I'm pretty sure that was intentional. By no means is the season perfect, and I can understand why people find the first one the best of the two, but still, the final scene is not as senseless as you make it out to be.
I feel like the upside down went from feeling like an alternate world to basically a magic tunnel system
I thought this season was meh. It made me reevaluate and question if I even truly liked season 1. Episode 7 was a disaster, made me feel nauseous. I literally felt physically ill. It was like I was forced to watch movies from the 70-90.
8:08 the duffer brothers said they wanted to leave it more open for the end of season two so they don't lock themselves into anything
That explains why the whole season felt like nothing was actually at stake.
You sound exactly like IHateEverything. I don't mean alike, I mean exactly. You even do the same type of edits and voice modulation.
NormalSpinda I didn’t think so until the *nO wAay* part but yeah that was totally IHE
EXACTLY😂
EXACTLY.
The upside down world in season 2 just seemed a lot less scary to me. Because most of the time when we saw it in wills ‘episodes’ we knew it was just a hallucination. But in season 1 actually knowing will was there scared the fuck out of me for some reason.
For me, it had the exact same problem ALIENS had. It wanted to do more, bigger, better than the first one, and only made the threat smaller : In both Alien and Stranger Things 1, there was only one, almost invincible monster, which was almost always hiding in the shadows in a terrifying manner, and in ALIENS and Stranger Things 2, you could simply shoot the many monsters that weren't one bit as mysterious as a banana.
This is probably the best Stranger Things 2 review I've seen. Balanced, brings out really good points and clears up what I felt was wrong, but couldn't really place a finger on. Good job.
The second season seemed to lack a fear factor that the first season had
I love season 2 except episode 7, it was mainly the style for me, it was so different to the rest of it (kinda reminded me of baby driver tbh) it meant we missed out on an episode filled with other characters. I think it would've been better for El to find Kali somewhere near Hawkins
You're on of my new favorite channels now, holy shit! You've got such a lighthearted style while still being serious with your opinion! Keep it up, man :-)
What really i didn't know that critics loved season 2. It was soooo boring.
Episode 7 to Millie Bobby Brown is kind of like Sucide Squad to will smith in that they were bad, but the actors were competent, the best part of it, and couldn't save it.
Can’t disagree with anything you said about episode 7, the whole episode I was just thinking why the fuck does this episode even exist
i think season 2 actually had more dramatic scenes. and they made el more humane. i actually liked it more. (:
I'm loving the background music immensely, hearing a nice Talking Heads hit and also Right Star, as well as Lullaby, by The Cure; just appreciating your selection of music. Also lovely essay; agree with 96% of what you say.
Crush: what are you doing behind that tree
Me: 0:58
I dunno I wasnt much of a season 2 fan, characters, performancrs and style were amazing, but the actual plot was a little ubderwhelming, and the amount of ridiculous plot cliches they play into took me out a lot, I liked bobs performance and his chatacter but his arc was so conventional and cliche, “a nerdy character turns out to be brave and sacrifices himself, winning the heart of the girl hed been pining over, leaving her with an admiration for him, but free to go with the guy she really likes, and letfing hef get away with not making a choice at all” I know thatsa little specific but it was filled with very predictable character arcs and cliches I thought
Danielisweird Stranger Things is all about conventions and clichés
Rikudou Eiyu yeah but they’re about *flipping them on their heads*
Well, you know, of course you know El is behind that door. But I loved the scene anyway :)
I think that when you're invested in the characters tolerance for clichés or predictability increases. It becomes more about the journey and less about the destination. I mean, surely we all knew Dustin's pet was evil. From the get go. But THAT'S what's awesome. The minute we see it we get this sinkin' stomach feeling of "oooohhhh this is not going to end well...", then you open up a smile in anticipation of all the shitstorm that's coming, and get even more excited.
At least that's what happened to me.
Peterson Silva I wish it was like that for me...the whole time with Dustin, for example, I was just annoyed at everything.
I think Dart is a Chekhov's gun. It's establishing that these aliens might not be entirely bad which could be important for the future.
That is what I thought as well. Considering the success of the show, I expect the creators to milk it, so establishing small things like Dart and the punk gang may prove useful for the future. Hopefully we will have that future though, I still want to know how the Upside Down was created and why it is like it is and so on
I remember watching Stranger Things Season 2 at midnight with my family, (and I had 5 1/2 hours of sleep the night before), falling asleep, waking up halfway through Episode 7 and being SO CONFUSED. It truly felt like a whole different show
This video makes me feel like i'm less crazy for thinking this way.
To be honest with the exception of the sister plot I liked the second season better than the first one.
DreamOfTheRebel.
DreamOfTheRebel Why?
Mike's group of friends was more fleshed out than it used to be and all of them had a separate plot. Similarly Eleven had her own separate plot of figuring out who she really was and I like how Mike wasn't a huge part of that. I guess I like that while the first season largely revolved around 3 or 4 characters everyone this season got equal development. The only lowlights in this season for me was, as I mentioned, the sister plot, and the Jonathan/Nancy romance which I found kinda boring at times.
**Grabs Pitchfork**
**finishes video**
**puts down pitchfork**
**Says : good point**
Edit: I love how you play the goonies theme when you talk about Bob
I agree, it isn't as tightly woven as the first season. It's still a great show (other than episode 7). The stuff with the conspiracy theorist bored me and Max, though a likable character felt like a pointless addition. As much as a fan favorite as 11 is, I've never found her very interesting. She's pretty much a plot device that comes in and saves the day with her powers. I'd also have liked Will to have been more a part of the team to see how he really fits in with the other three rather than him ending up the damsel in distress again.
thoughts on max now?
@@aiden6487 Really like her now. The actress gives the character a real charm and of course she had a great story arc in season 4.
My problems with season two,
nancy wheeler becoming a bad/toxic girlfriend,
that moment where they try to make Billy sympathetic,
Johnathan is nothing but a prop now because nancy sucks now, minus her giving Dustin a good time lol,
I hate the loony reporter and I hate that Bob got killed
I just finished season 3 and the show in my opinion has returned to its former glory.
By the way, before anyone comments that I am wrong, I already realized that. I still liked it more than season 2 but it is not nearly as good as season 1 and the main reason I said it was is because the same reason everyone loved season 2 at first but then Realized it wasn’t great. I overhyped it
Goddammit, this is now my favorite channel. You are frikkin great. This is frikkin great. Please do not stop.
Dude i just discover your channel... is like you take every word i want to say about some show and made it to a video... Keep going!
thank you for having a track list.
I think It’s kind of weird that the upside down has buildings and structures because there aren’t any humans in it, just demogorgons. And I don’t believe that the world constantly matches the normal world.
And what about the rest of the universe? Does that have an upside down counterpart as well?