it sounds like you've reached pinnacle power. change the ornament on your profile picture to Zavala with glowing red eyes to show that you've gone flawless in the Trials of Feelsbadman.
I want them to do that to Curated rolls. But I don't want Raids to have fixed rolls like they did in D1. Hell, I would even like if the Curated Rolls were exclusive to heroic mode, for example. Give people a reason to go do Heroic Mode, other than just because of the armor ornaments.
Everyone worried about weapon retirement and I’m just sitting here wanting to be able to put shaders on exotics & ornaments that change the appearance of a gun to look like another.
Right? That's a part of the issue for me. I like the look of some guns that don't perform well. I'd have a good time if I could take that hakke auto rifle look and put it on something new...
Qwerty Bastard I realised that after giving it some thought, exotics should be powerful but also aesthetically unique. But I don’t need to see a titan to know that he’s running one eyed mask
Weapon retirement seems like it's a full time vs part time player thing. Full time players feel tired of seeing the same loot or using the same guns over and over again but more casual players either have no opinion on this or just want to use their favorite guns. I personally have thousands of kills on my service revolver and ikelos sniper and I'd hate being unable to use them in iron banner or trials.
@@Publano rng has gone out the window more and more with each passing season though, it's gotten so easy. That was true in the past but it think it wouldn't be nearly as hard to get a good weapon in the future
agreed. even with the “lack of participation” that bungie observes, still think it would be a great addition to players to grind more for which is always good
@@chaluparazz Some of the major points of this video revolve around bungie having a smaller team and not enough resources to do a lot of these things. There has to be some give and take. Doing it "just because" doesn't cut it when resources could go elsewhere in a more impactful manner.
Honestly, a major point I feel that you completely overlooked is the cosmetic aspect of our legendary weapons. For instance, I may have a really nice Outlaw/Kill Clip Pulse from a recent season, yet still find myself gravitating toward a pulse rifle with the very same roll, from 3 or 4 seasons ago, simply because I love the *look* --the design style of that earlier weapon. In a game where cosmetic attunement is something we focus a massive amount of our time on, I can unequivocally say that the way a weapon looks as it rests in your character's hands (in an FPS, no less) certainly affects your experience as you play. If a weapon has a great roll, but it's ugly as sin, you may tire of using it pretty quickly, and that "fun" factor is negatively affected, albeit maybe to a lesser degree. But still, it plays a part in overall enjoyment. The season of Dawn weapons, in my opinion, are some of the best weapon designs that Bungie's given us in a long time. And I'm of the mind that, since I love those designs, I'd like to keep using my uniquely-rolled gear from that season, without the looming knowledge that they'll eventually be useless in harder activities. Those weapons my have been "easier" to grind than most seasons, but to get the rolls I wanted to experiment with still took *scores* of hours, since Bungie isn't known for creating friendly RNG. I don't want to continue repeating that process, always knowing that gear has an expiration date. That doesn't scream "fun." It groans "waste of time." Regardless, I feel like you and I will simply have to take the "agree to disagree" route, because arbitrarily forcing players to move on from gear they love, does indeed go against the "play the way you want" motto that Bungie always stood by. By definition, that's just objectively true. They should either stand by the saying, or make it clear that the ideology comes with some major, contradictory "but's".
This is pretty much exactly it. Have I built up an arsenal of weapons I absolutely love over the many months since Forsaken? Absolutely! Will I use some of those until the end of this game? Probably! Does it stop me from grinding for good rolls on new weapons introduced every new season? Absolutely not! Take the Seraph weapons, they look and feel quite awesome, so I ground for them, and they're quite awesome! I find it somewhat ridiculous that it somehow matters if we don't keep using new weapons as long as we have our fun with them for a while. Ultimately I'm still playing the game to get them if there are ways to grind which aren't annoying, and isn't that what matters in the end? I genuinely feel like people overlook the fact that a lot of people will grind just for the sake of it, just to try out the new weapons.
100%! You literally took the words right out'a my mouth! The cosmetic aspect is a huge part of the game for me. In fact aside from Destiny being something to do with my friends, it's the MAIN thing. It's why I main a Hunter. It's why Ace of Spades is my favorite gun. It's why I grind for certain things and ignore others. For me, it's all about what draws my eye, and what sparks emotion in me. There are weapons I don't use for the very reason you brought up... they fugly. lol So for me, and others, throwing more powerful shit at us and making our old fav guns irrelevant, uh... yeah, why wouldn't we be pissed off??? I'll grind for cosmetics till the end of time, I'll grind for something I want if I get to KEEP it, but grinding for something that one day, even if it's a whole year away, will not be useful??? Uh, no thanks. This whole thing is an issue any MMO-esque or ongoing content type game suffers from... Bungie just is floundering imo where other games have figured it out (Fortnite for example, and I'm talking about both modes, or FFXIV, etc). I understand they are in a pickle, and they're just doing their best trying to please a wide variety of types of players, which makes their job more difficult. However, that doesn't make me less upset about sunsetting.
this is kinda like how in old call of duty games, everyone would pick either the perk that gave them more health or more damage. Those perks ended up removed or changed in subsequent titles because they were bad for the game as a whole.
As it should be. But a huge problem in many games is the developers want you to be weak because they are incapable of creating challenge unless you have one arm tied behind your back. I miss year 1 d1. It was fun.
@@thelouster5815 not really what I meant when I said that. Poor wording on my part. I meant how he clearly had a lot of fun with that weapon cause it was good. There were a lot of good weapons in d1. They felt powerful. I want that back. Like it used to be you burn through everything but hard mode raids and nightfall. But even in those 2 you still felt strong, you just had to be careful cause you could get one shot or quickly killed if you played stupidly. In d2 you can still get murdered but you dont feel powerful. I dont care much about the balancing for pvp. It used to be fun as hell back in year 1 before trails when people would actually run around. Soon as trails started the majority of people became camping bitches which ruined pvp. Even now it's still slow and boring kinda. People ride each others dicks. It's pretty lame. But theres alot that d2 needs. Such as being able to fully customize your Class perks, not be forced to one perk set. Its developers just forcing ppl to play how they want because if the player has freedom they are incapable of making a challenge.
@@DattoDoesDestiny I had an idea a while back to mix up the meta. Not game-breaking imo but also very different and new. What if, to promote weapon loadout diversity in endgame content, old exotics were granted intrinsic Anti-Champion perks? Like how Leviathan's Breath works against Unstoppable, or Eriana's against Barrier. What if Sunshot had intrinsic Anti-Unstoppable Rounds? Or Huckleberry had intrinsic Anti-Overload? I think it would be a game changer. I suppose there could be an activity or something to unlock that perk (similar to catalysts but much more endgame and difficult). Thoughts?
@@96ayasaki ....that's kinda what I'm saying, but they wouldn't be mods. It would be automatic. Exotics can't use mods period, but something like Divinity has Anti-Overload built in. What if older exotics were updated to also included intrinsic perks like that, not mods
3 years of severe powercreep later, can we admit that maybe sunsetting weapons wasn't the worst idea? Sure, we did end up farming for very similar or sometimes exactly the same weapons that we used to have, but how many of those old guns would still even be good in the current meta? Without a way to cycle weapons out, Bungie has had to consistently up the power of guns for the last 3 years until we've hit a point where new guns are having to drop with meta defining perks just to get anybody to even look at them. Everytime a new season drops, I scroll through light gg, take a mental note of ~3 guns that might be good, and immediately write off the rest of the new weapons because they'll just be worse than what I already have. I'm not saying sunsetting is the perfect solution, I understand why it sucks. But if its the only way to make loot actually exciting in this game again, then its worth it.
There are plenty of more ways to make loot exciting, take subclass synergy perks like voltshot and incandescent, they make most guns that came before look silly. We're a week away from into the light right now and--granted, when you made this comment we didn't know this yet--but we're getting some of the most powerful weapons of all time, most of them being weapons that are currently sunset. In a looter shooter, it's the developer's job to make loot interesting, not to force us to change. Forcing the players to make a decision rather than making them excited to make that decision is bad game design. Edit: and about power creep, of course we don't want power creep to get out of hand like OG mountaintop and recluse, but there are 2 things to keep in mind: they could have just balanced them, like they are now. We've seen almost every pinnacle perk return on random rolled weapons, but in a worse state then they released. That's a good thing, that's what they're supposed to do. Secondly, power creep to some degree is inevitable, it's a looter shooter, if the loot isn't upping the ante at least a little bit then I don't want it. I understand where you're coming from but sunsetting is just not the best way to go about it since it makes the game less fun and artificially creates incentive.
The "but the weapon will still exist after retirement" argument always feels stale to me. Why would I use a weapon in PvP and get good with it, if I can't bring it into Trials or IB? Aside from dicking around, why would I use it in Heroic Strikes or Patrols or PE? Hell, why am I doing those things to begin with? Aside from getting a nostalgia kick when farming bounties, the only activities where I can genuinely revel in how great my favorite gun is are ones that it would be made obsolete in: Raids, Dungeons, Nightfalls, Trials, IB, and even Gambit.
Yes, and this is the point, making players have a new favorite gun every 6-9 months could bring diversity and balance back to the game. Weapon retirement is meant to force you to use something different in those activities. Plus it would not be made obsolete in gambit, gambit is not power based, so your weapon choice wouldn't matter P.S. I'm seeing this argument with pvp players saying that because a weapon won't be able to be used in trials and Iron Banner it'll be useless. Do you people only play trials? Iron Banner is a limited time event and Trials is the ENDGAME, It's supposed to be the 'raid' of pvp, not the main gamemode. And if trials is the "only (PvP) activity where I can genuinely revel in how great my favorite gun is" Then how come I see so many Spare rations mindbenders tryhards in quickplay,
@@benjaminmarson4622 did your play year 1 in D1? If you did, you’d know how bad it felt to be forced to leave those great weapons behind. When bungie listened to the community, it was decided to start infusing weapons to allow us to keep the great guns and not be forced to play one specific way. The whole “play your way” line inspired this infusion change, and it made destiny better overall with the ability to keep using the weapons/armor we wanted to use. Now, Luke smith has to apply his dumb “magic the gathering” and “WoW” logic to destiny (a game that solely was designed to be a FPS looter shooter) and it’s ruining things again. When him and his ego took over at bungie, it was responsible for some of the worst decisions since year 1 of D1, and we’re about to experience big changes that ruin things, yet again. The problem is ppl like datto (who use destiny as their literal job) want a challenge and don’t think of the many casual/solo/regular players who enjoy feeling powerful. Just because datto and his YT buddies can smash new content wish ease and claim power creep, the majority of players can’t. The game shouldn’t be decided by a small minority of ppl (YTers and streamers who have bungies ear) when most ppl want the big power fantasy we were promised. It’s not our fault that full time streamers are too good at the game, but anyone who’s been playing since sept 2014 knows dropping weapons is a backwards move that’ll hurt more than help. If bungie put out good guns across the board, ppl would be okay with leaving stuff behind, but they aren’t good at it, the perks are intentionally crap most of the time, and no, it’s not worth using a weak weapon AT ALL in any mode... end of story. Again, if you played year 1 of D1, you’d know that tryin to use your fatebringer in any nightfall, strike, crucible, patrol, raid... anything... felt underpowered. No one is trying to use weak weapons when enemies scale and activities demand you have the strongest guns. I don’t want a challenge by making my guns weak, so I just won’t use them. And I know most ppl won’t either, cause data from D1 2014/2015 told bungie this. They knew we weren’t becoming “legend” by dropping our hard earned weapons, so again, they brought in infusion. Now, because they’re lazy and always changing the meta, this is the next step. It’s wrong. I’m sorry, but anyone who streams destiny for a living shouldn’t have the ultimate say. I was here since the beginning and I along with my friends know leaving weapons behind (especially after they introduced infusion) is backwards thinking. If you agree with leaving stuff behind, you either didn’t play D1 when it was a thing OR you’re blinded by the “bungie does no wrong” idea. People like datto tell bungie whatever to get on their good side and for their benefit, not ours. This is a bad move and only sheep and streamers agree with the “leave weapons behind” idea.
@@NeckPUNCHattack Okay, lets address this quote by quote First, I did not play Y1 D1, but I'm sure Datto did "not be forced to play one specific way" Well, now we kind of are forced to play one specific way, with almost every destiny youtuber constantly making videos on what's the best, if you don't use the best thing, what are you doing? If there's going to be a 'meta' no matter what at least have the meta change every so often "The problem is ppl like datto want a challenge of the many casual/solo/regular players who enjoy feeling powerful" I see this faulty thinking a lot in destiny criticism. Just because people like Datto aren't the majority, doesn't mean people like you are. You can't just claim what the majority wants because you have no idea what they want. (This comes up many other times so I choose not to Point it out every time) "The game shouldn’t be decided by a small minority of ppl" It's not, while I'm sure bungie does listen to youtubers and streamers, I'm also sure they don't only listen to them. "If bungie put out good guns across the board" To consistently do that, they would have to just make something better then what is currently in the game, which leads to power creep. "activities demand you have the strongest guns" Do they really? do strikes "Demand" you have recluse izanagis to beat them. I'm sure what you mean is the activities that matter (High difficulty nightfalls, raids, etc.) 'demand' you to have the best weapons. Even those don't really though, you can easily beat a raid with a non-meta loadout as long as you know what you are doing and the same goes for high difficulty nightfalls. "People like datto tell bungie whatever to get on their good side and for their benefit, not ours" This is kind of ridiculous, if datto was making this video just to get on Bungies good side, then why are there so many videos of him criticizing Destiny and saying what is wrong with the game. The only way you could think this is if you haven't seen his other videos or you think that the only real criticism is screaming THIS GAME SUCKS over and over. Finally, I've played destiny for a little over a year and a half, and I know first-hand that change is good. When Shadowkeep first dropped and everybody used recluse, towards the end I got bored, then when season of dawn dropped and I used randy's, I was having fun again, but that fun dwindled and towards the end I was bored again. This is just the cycle and if the activity is really easy then I will sometimes use a different loadout because it is FUN. As human beings, change is good. Imagine if you were forced to watch your favorite movie non-stop for a day, eventually you would get sick of it. The same applies to guns in destiny, people use the same thing in all pve activities because they know it to be 'the best' when in most pve activities your choice of guns don't matter, so change will make you enjoy the game more.
@@benjaminmarson4622 okay... I’m sorry, but I had trouble reading all of that, so I’m just gonna tell you that since you didn’t live it the first time around, you don’t know. And Yes, bungie do listen to the YT minority. If you know datto, you know he frequently blows smoke up bungies behind to get in their exclusive events, hosting events, etc... it’s a very well known fact that bungie listens to YTers over the majority of gamers. When D2 released, it was the only time they listened to community feedback by making it a more “accessible” game for casuals. It backfired, YTers were the ones invited to the “destiny summit” to get feedback on how to change the game (and only YTers, not random ppl), and since then, bungie has shown time and time again that they listen to YTers now so they don’t screw up again. I’m sorry, but you either don’t know all the backstory (and I do since I’ve been here since the alpha/beta of D1) or you’re just blindly following bungie, with a disregard for what’s actually going on. I used to think they could do no wrong, but I’m an open minded person, so I noticed all the things and patterns that happened to get us to where we are now. You don’t wanna accept it, that’s on you, but anyone in the know understands bungie listens to YTers first, then their community managers (like cozmo or dmg04) will occasionally listen to feedback. Anyway, just because you deem this change good doesn’t mean it is. I was there when this idea happened the first time and it sucked. People tend to forget that even datto hated the light system and was upset about leaving good weapons behind, but now that it’s their daily job, they need a challenge. They can’t self impose challenges, so they have to make it suck for the rest of us with these backwards ideas, but I remember when even the upcoming datto and other destiny YTers hated leaving weapons behind back then. They’re being hypocrites now only because they’re telling bungie what they wanna hear. It’s that simple. If you don’t understand that, then you won’t understand leaving stuff behind as a bad thing. Again, if you were there first time around, you’d be on the same page as me. The only problem is the YTers who said it sucked then don’t say it now cause it’s their freakin job! They don’t wanna bite the hand that feeds them, and they won’t. If you can’t come to terms with that, then idk what to say, but it’s a fact it sucked when it happened, and it’ll suck the next time because bungie make a portion of weapon bad on purpose. If all weapons were good to some degree, I wouldn’t be against this, but this is treated like magic the gathering, so they say they’re always gonna have a portion a bad weapons... they don’t make enough good ones to have fun with, so this is bad. Again, if you saw it first hand, you’d know, but you didn’t, so you can’t imagine it and you’re just going off of what YTers are saying and they’re saying it to appease bungie. If you don’t know that, maybe you’re not thinking for yourself then.
@@benjaminmarson4622 also, you just started a year ago? I’ve experienced every meta change, I’ve seen great weapons get nerfed just to make ppl use other bad weapons, I’ve experienced the exact thing you’re fighting for.... “change is good”.... no' it ain’t. I have year 1 elemental kinetic (adept) weapons sitting in my D1 vault that were left behind, and no, there isn’t any situation that warrants using them again. Bungie even made sure that once weapons got left behind, they double nerfed them so ppl couldn’t and wouldn’t use them in ANY activity. In the eyes of the community, you’d still be considered a noob because you haven’t been here long enough to know how we’ve seen metas change, just for them to come around again. The hard light meta? Yea, that was a thing in D1. It was nerfed to kill the use of it til bungie was ready to bring it around again. This is what they do, and I’m sorry but ppl like you who think “a year” is grounds for speaking on this subject, well, it isn’t. If you knew first hand how bad this stuff is, then you’d be able to say it’s good or bad, but you’re still new to destiny, and you’re listening to a guy (datto) who shills for bungie daily. No, this isn’t toxic talk, it’s truth. Ask anyone who saw him start out or were here as long or longer than him, they’ll tell you, he says this stuff to appease bungie. You can hate me for going against what you like, but I’m telling you.... play destiny for a couple years... you’ll start to see what I’m saying is true, and one day, years from now, you’ll think back and realize you were just blinded by destiny. It happened to all of us.... but the ones who’ve been here the longest have seen thru bungies tactics and know that this “change” isn’t good. I know I’m not gonna convince you, but put my 6+ yrs of destiny playtime towards your 1.5 yrs and I know I’ve been here to see metas come around multiple times and this very thing that’s happening with weapon change.... it went away because these same youtubers collectively said it sucked (along with the community), so bungie developed the infusion system. It was literally born out of how much leaving weapons behind was hated and was a bad thing. The problem is that no Yter wants to disagree with bungie when it’s their main source of income and they’ve invested so much time into getting in with them. They actually spoke their minds when it was negative in the beginning, now, not so much. Anyway, if you had enough time with destiny like us vets, you’d see my point of view. There is a thing that makes ppl blind to this stuff and think bungie do no wrong, but one day, you’ll see it. Til then, I can’t agree with anything you’ve written.
Also the whole talk about seasonal memories. If that were the case why are people still going crazy about copy and pasted weapons from d1? They clearly have not "moved on" from them as he says.
@@kiwa8830 We have moved on though. Of course if something you liked comes back people are going to be excited. I'm not desperate for any D1 weapons to come back to D2, but if they bring back Vex Mythoclast you bet I'm gonna be hyped.
How? The weapons will still be there and they'll still be usable for the majority of the game. There's nothing to miss out on when it still exists and is still usable.
If anything I’d consider it the opposite of fomo. fear of missing out is like oh, if I don’t get this now, I’ll never be able to. The argument against weapon retirement is what’s the point of getting this gun if I don’t get to keep it
@@gaiance Big fuckin WOOP! "Look! We can use these weapons that took us months of grinding on the dated activities no one cares about!" < you in a nutshell. Sorry, I worked hard for my guns, so I should be able to use them on the activities I want to use them on, no?
The Destiny community's demands are pushing unreasonable, are mixed and sometimes unattainable. I feel sorry for Bungie's development team in some ways, as the time they have to develop new content isn't long enough to flesh out fully, but they seem to feel they need to release it before it's ready to alleviate the pressure the community puts on them. Then there's the Streamer vs. Casual argument. The divide is becoming even larger and there is no way Bungie will be able to please both sides. Then there's the pure existence of anything, that leads to development of higher levels of expectation. Everyone loved the game when it was at it's simplest, but something can't remain on a base level of simplicity before it gets 'boring'. Bungie are reaching a stage where they have an almost insurmountable task of developing the game in a way that largely meets the majorities requests. It feels like Destiny is close to imploding.
This... the game has a lot of uneducated vocal people... that is the problem These people talk to Bungie as if all they did was wrong... I am not gonna pretend they always got it right... but lets be frank... they are the devs... they make the damn product... we can only accept it or bail out... a looter needs fresh loot... in a world where infusion is a thing, sunsetting needs to exist
i just want story, character moments, story moments that leave me breathless. i dont care about these mini story archs cause they just suck. theres no new enemy to fight and no new areas to fight them in. thats my reason for not really caring for this game lately
D grave that’s fair that’s personally why I try to dive deep into the lore to make it more interesting and for something’s that others may think are small it can really make stuff more interesting because you know what this could mean, it’s almost like an inside joke. It’s a lot better when you know what it is
@@twistedstorm8821 yeah but its just lore. Ive said once and ill keep saying it till this game dies or i, the game would be infinitely better if all the lore was put into the game as interactable or missions done by you're character. I dont want to read it, i want to experience it.
I’m surprised that there has only been 1 new enemy type, and it’s severely underused, with the other enemy types being very over saturated (with the exception of the taken, though I still don’t understand why they still exist).
@@SmoothTurtle840 technically there are many 'new' enemy types since D1. Red legion are fundamentally different to regular cabal. Taken were new in D1 and have been expanded a ton in D2. The fallen have many new members and were expanded upon too. It's not like they aren't improving.
Before I start I want to say I absolutely love the world they’ve created and have spent enormous amounts of time enjoying this game. In my opinion The problem is upgrades are pigeonholed into linear “more level or damage is better”. It’s a symptom of classes having little to no variability as much as weapon perks being more or less the same. If we instead took a page out of other RPGs(like diablo) and had an ability where enemies took more damage from a specific element or enemies a certain distance range take more damage as a passive. Ex. Enemies further than 30 meters Ex.2 grenade gives damage buff to arc for 5 seconds. You could then change items to have perks that are more based on play style or build strategy. Ex. Scout rifle with a perk of standing still gives damage buff while moving gives equal nerf, Or opposite for an smg.Things that feel good when played a certain way but, aren’t one size fits all. There are so many examples from other rpgs that they don’t have to reinvent the wheel to get an engaging experience in a unique way. While if we look at the shooter aspect, games like CoD allow you to change scopes, magazine size and grips all with tradeoffs. It feels like they ended up with a rpg with no meaningful class choices and a shooter that lacks weapon customization. This is probably from the constant complaining from us the community and the constant changes happening within their company. I can’t imagine the direction struggle that comes from having Activision over the shoulder and then running their own show all while the community is this vocal. Whatever happens, this game will go down as one of my favorites of all time and I wish it and bungie nothing but longevity and success.
Watching this made me realize how different Elder Scrolls Online is from other MMOs/RPGs. As a destiny fan and ESO fan I can’t help but draw some parallels but also things that ESO does better. Raid gear being the best (but also previous raid gear being really good) and no hard resets being the two biggest awesome differences imo.
"We don't use osmosis" Speak for yourself, I spent all of last season loving Osmosis, it's one of my favorite new perks and has proven itself near essential in match game
He's not speaking for himself he's speaking about the community, as a whole, going for the easy perk combo and "intresting" to most of the community being more powerful weapons.
He means it in the way that most people dont use it even though it might be powerfull. But its just not good enough to grind for it. I mean almost every activity is easily doable without osmosis and osmosis makes it not really easier
Oh man, I'm rewatching this in light of current events and some of the forum arguments against weapon retirement are things Datto mentioned, word for word, here.
this whole weapon retirement we had was probably the worst idea that Bungie couldve done. It's honestly not only the weapons but the content in the sunsetting event that Beyond Light had. There will always be a better weapon to get, no matter what they drop. Weapons are not only a constant change in the game but its also something new. Just because something old is here to stay doesnt mean people are going to stick with it forever. were all jaded at some point and i think people will move on from a weapon, even raid weapons. If you like the gun, cool, if you dont, move on from it and get another one that suits your needs. Obviously this was before beyond light, but Bungie will eventually add some weapons that are the same as older weapons, if not better. They literally added older weapons that arent sunset such as the menagerie weapons. I will expect some seasons to add older weapons such as the forge weapons. Im assuming theyre trying to right their wrongs by adding these weapons.
Look, I absolutely will quit the game if they start retiring weapons (I did it in d1 from taken king till age of triumph when they brought most guns back) Reason is just like you said, I farmed ALL THE GODS ROLLS and I use them all the time (Unlike people who stick with same guns forever). My point is if someone wants to play like me they should be able to as well as if they want to use just one gun they can as well. That being said I understand the conundrum, so here some suggestions: - Warframe went with the riven mods, which makes guns less used by the comunity more powerful every season - Weapon synergy is sorely lacking in destiny, we just have with sturm and drang and mida multi and mini tools, pairing perks to certain weapon archetypes could work, like a bow archetype that gives quickdraw to a handcannon archetype when you hit an arrow and the hand cannon archetype gives your next arrow firefly when you make a multikill, so each one is a meh weapon on its own but together they work wonders, and having 3,4 handcannons and bows on those archetypes gives you 9-16 combinations which will makes us worthwhile to farm and experiment.
If you don’t want to keep them just dismantle them and get free masterwork cores (not like those are already being fed to us like we’re little kids via guardian games)
Hey datto please notice this comment,we need trials in D1 I never play D2 anymore and can’t participate in trials bc I’m Garbo anyway me and a couple of friends really want trials back and many others do to but we need u to say something to deej about it bc ur a really big part in destiny if this comment gets 1000 likes can u say something about it to deej
Heres where I stand. - Make all stats visible (AA, Accuracy, recoil direction, ect) - Make Transmogging a full blown thing (cosmetic wise. Let me take the model of one thing and put it on a similar thing. Hammerhead = MG, Scholar = Scout, ect) - Adjust how stats work similar to how they have slowly been since launch. I want to gain actual sprint speed and slide distance from mobility but maybe this come at a cost to resilience or recovery. - remove the general and specific mod slots in favor of just 3-4 mod slots with the same pool. If I just want to buff my stats than let me, if I want to focus on a grenade/melee combo--- *Then let me* Retire weapons, but let players show off they're past loot. I shouldn't need to re-earn my armor or weapons when I could just throw their model on a newer gun that has better power//stats//perks. People wouldn't ask for their old legendaries back if they can just put the models on their new guns. This would also fix old content to some extent without bungie needing to go back to pull another age of triumph (though to be honest all raids should be considered end game with the newest raid just rewarding slightly better gear stat//power wise)
@@speedyvena it's not like any of it would matter. I mean D1 retired and reissued guns from Y1. It cleared the loot pool for new stuff and gave some old classics back. With this they can at least take their Ringing nail and put its model on the new autorifle from season 12. Armor is already confirmed to be getting Transmogging so that too can help alleviate problems. People are just overreacting
The only issue that I would see with universal transmog would be exotics and pinnacles (You know, recluse, revoker, and mountaintop tier weapons) because of the unique ways that they can impact the battlefield. Well, that and what it would mean for literally all shotguns, smgs, and sidearms (the weapons that have the biggest desire for range). Obviously they weren't going to add exotics to any form of universal transmog, because you do genuinely need to see that this dude is wearing saint-14's helmet inside of his bubble, you're going to be blinded when you step in. Or this dude is carrying around wardcliff coil and not just some random legendary launcher. But this should also be extended to any new pinnacle-tier weapons they add, as you shouldn't have to memorize which one of their 3 titans is using Revoker if you manage to get a good look at the sniper they're hardscoping with. Then there's the issue that cosmetics have with weapon range. Did you know that if you equip The Panama Ravine ornament on The Chaperone, you get about an extra meter of range over the default appearance? This is because, for some bloody reason, barrel length translates to falloff distance. Chances are, this is because of the round being spawned at the end of the barrel or Bungie actually made range stat more impactful on weapons with longer barrels. What's annoying is that they made *modified* appearance affect the falloff. So that would have to be fixed before universal weapon transmog.
@@GeassX notice how universal ornaments don't work on gambit prime armor and exotics. that be the same here. We're already getting armor Transmogging soon from Bungies own words so being able to do the same with weapons wouldn't be too bad. Also Panama ravine adds so little. Did you really do what Fallout said not to? Did you skim over the information and over exaggerate? Also to give a great example here is the service revolver, better devils, and living memory, all Identical models, all different archetypes. Also barrel length was shown to have non noticeable effects on other guns like HC's as the longest HC (Midnight coup) had no difference in range compared to a spare rations and that was pre nerf that nerfed all HC damage ranges and fall off. The effects of barrel length are no minimal that they dont have any serious effects on most weapon types (especially swords; no shit am I right) The only gun class that has this issue is shotguns and again, they're inconsistent and though barrel length has some effect, it's so minor, it damn near negligible. The majority of people using this would be using smaller gun models that take less screen real estate as things like dire promise get more use than things like jack queen king because of its model size (a major reason Omolon HCs have been neglected since D1 even when meta)
My biggest problem with destiny 2 at the moment boils down to a question, why. Why am I grinding weapon drops, why am I trying to get max light. It's like we are back in year 1 of d2 but somehow it feels worse. I've got no goal what am I grinding for this season a harder nightfall? I miss heroic raids they were that last challenge, that last mountain to climb. Something to show my growth and hard work. Here's what I think Bungie should do with the current releasing style. The first dlc (the shadowkeeps and forsakens) give us a raid, 2nd dlc give us a dungeon. The 3rd dlc heroic raid and heroic dungeon. And also give us Nightfalls that actually change things up like heroic raids not the artificial difficulty fuster cluck that we have now. And for the people that are like "oh it's to hard I can't do it" here's what I say, to fucking bad everything is not for everyone. Destiny is starting to feel like runescape, just a stat grind. We arent dumb kids we are Guardians damn it, its time we are treated as such.
My weapon memories by year (Xbox): Destiny 1 Year 1: The messenger Year 2: 1000- yard stare Year 3: Chaos Dogma Destiny 2 Year 1: Mannanan Year 2: Whisper of the worm Year 3 (in progress): Sacred Provenance
See, me personally, I would love a hard reset at this point... it’s why I’m clinging onto the idea of D3 because I feel as though there’s nothing to grind for anymore due to the fact that increasing our power doesn’t have any effect of anything. We’re chasing power for no reason!
Cooper Van Bruchem Yeah I agree, also there are some perks in D2 that I feel completely ruin the chances for others that need to be completely deleted. I don’t think people will be happy if Bungie deletes kill clip, rampage, and other damage boosting perks in D2 because everyone has become too used to everything having it, so a hard reset where these perks are deleted would be great. In D1 we didn’t really have any perks on legendaries that just ramped the damage up, rather we had some that made explosions or generated more ammo into the magazine or just helped base stats of our weapon. I’m using DIM to look through all my D1 items and almost all the perks on them were utility perks boosting range or stability further, or explosive rounds/firefly/triple tap etc. Nothing straight up just gave me more damage like rampage or kill clip.
@@smoltoaster Crowd Control existed, but it was basically a proto-Rampage with only one stack. IIRC it was also a lot rarer to find, but my memory may be rusty.
SundownMarkTwo Yeah, there were very few damage based perks put on legendaries and they were not nearly as potent as rampage or kill clip. Firefly was like, the best perk for a while on legendaries which is odd to see as firefly is completely ignored in D2.
Genny Manun Yup. The perks were very rarely distributed though. I hardly ever saw reactive reload. A few shotguns I know had crowd control. I cant think of very much though. Weapon diversity was pretty decent in D1 because there wasn’t a single best perk set for most weapons. There were a few that stood out but it was fine because they were Raid weapons or just very good weapons that got retired eventually.
Well, if damaging perks are the carrot, then one solution is to dangle the carrot differently. Bungie has started to do this with perks like Trench Barrel (melee hits make shotguns do more dmg temporarily). If they come up with more creative yet natural-feeling conditions for triggering dmg bonuses (ex. slide kills grant a fire rate and reload speed buff), that's an avenue for spicier pve perk development.
I miss my faction weapons, at least from D1 because I was not the most active during the early faction rallies of D2. I wouldn't mind vendor weapons...
I loved how the skeleton key worked in Destiny 1 year 3 because it gave the strikes more life, in a way. Me and my friend would always try to get a good Imago Loop and I would like to see something like the skeleton key system return for strikes because it makes the strikes seem more fun. If not for strikes, it would entice people into playing higher difficulty Nightfall Ordeals.
With games like destiny the audience will never be fully pleased because everyone wants amazing loot but everyone also wants it to be extremely rare so they feel special for having it. It doesn’t make it a bad game, it just makes Bungie have to decide whether to actually make loot rare, and make a lot of their fan base disappointed because they can’t actually get the loot, or they could make the good loot less rare, and people will eventually lose the drive to get that new loot because everyone already has it. It’s an impossible problem
For me Y1: Borealis Y2: Breakneck (A pinnacle, so what? I died in gambit for it and never took it off even though I got recluse afterward.) Y3: One Thousand Voices (Yes I got it in Y3 got a problem?)
I remember in D1 they did delete weapons. They deleted a butt ton of blues, greens and basic weapons. I don’t think they deleted any legendaries but they did do the weapon retirement thing for the entire first year. To this day I still have the very first legendary I ever got in Destiny history. It was Proxima Centuri II (you TRUE vets would remember). But not just weapons, but anything from Y1. Then they brought back only popular weapons, and they made all the year 1 armor come from eververse packages that you could buy for silver dust. Then infuse that armor (which dropped at 5 light) up to max level which was 400. Damn those were the days
I wouldn’t mind them doing all of this stuff, if they charged less for the dlc. They’re trying to convince me to pay $70, for three seasons of shitty loot and losing several planets and raids.
Contest mod takes activities out of the range of the vast majority of players. Something like prestige Leviathan where enemies hit a bit harder and are a little tankier but also come with new mechanics is much more engaging and rewarding than arbitrary tankiness
Weapons retirement is a NECESSITY, i am a 100% on board with Bungie on starting to grind BRAND NEW WEAPONS. Seriously, how much longer do you guys plan on using recluse/Mountain Top/Grenade launcher por PVE; and Spare Rations/Mindbenders/Coil for PVP?
hey bungie free tip, add perk that adds elemental aoe. void spash / arc chain / solar flare. To really spice things up, make perk available for any gun in the game. imagine a void/arc auto rifle. that would be something
What Datto mentioned at the end of the video really hit home for me; I want to feel like I EARNED my reward. D2 is riddled with quests that simply just gift you a powerful weapon on a plate, mostly doing activities that don’t really require any real skill, being mostly “Collect X amount of Y item by killing Z enemy/Go to X Location and collect Y item” etc. While it makes it easier for casual players, it really eliminates what made D1 so special for me - completing something HARD to get something GOOD. I want that satisfaction with getting loot again, I want the feeling of when I finally got the Vex from Hard VoG after being stuck at the spires for what felt like an eternity, I want exotics to be RNG and rare, like when I finally got the Gjallahorn from Crota since playing from just after Launch. Destiny just isn’t the same anymore, I used to look at other Guardians in D1 and be impressed at what I saw, thinking “wow, he has X weapon so he must be good” Now I just feel like “Wow he has X weapon, so he must’ve played 4 hours of strikes to get it”, Loot satisfaction has killed the game for me :(
Give the new seasonal weapons from the activities (sundial, vex offensive weapons in their respective seasons) have a seasonal perk slot for a good perk, and when the season finishes you get a random perk
if weapon retirement comes really so out, i stop for sure. I for myself use different weapons, love that and i dont get bored. But of course i have also my lovely weapon loadout, for example i love my redrix pulse rifle. even if its not meta, i like to play it and take it even to hard activitys. I see no way in grinding for something, that cant be infunded and never be used in any hard activity again ( whats the point to get it even with a god roll, when i got only fun for few months? ) sry for wall of text ;( love u datto ♥♥♥
Because you will have new weapons with cool new perks to chase for endgame activities. I think people overlook how great TTK was for Destiny, everyone started fresh and some of the best times I had in Destiny was trying out all the new weapons and figuring out what to take into the raid.
@@lewis4402 The issue is that i heavily doubt that the bunglords will innovate in any substantial way. In fact I purely see it as a way to reskin and rehash loot. "Yay a 140 rpm raid hand cannon that drops with rampage, kill clip, and drop mag... so innovative". Secondly even if weapons are retired, there will be one that fills the exact same niche, potentially even better. Look at breachlight for example. That thing hits like a truck and it can easily fill the hole left by recluse's nerf in pve, or TLW nerf in pvp. The bottom line is I doubt if anything will change implementing this system, but if it is implemented it wont be my problem anymore.
@@ubisuccle This was literally mentioned in the video, and I share the same sentiment as Datto on this matter. If it gets implemented and you leave because of it then you clearly dont want Destiny to be a looter shooter, in fact, what are you playing Destiny for exactly? Wheres the fun in getting a weapon, then having nothing to chase for eternity? I have a complete disinterest in all the loot in the game right now because I have my mt, recluse etc. Give me new stuff to hunt, make raid weapons unique, IF they do this properly it will be great for the game.
At the end of the day, you sound like someone that's earnestly confused that there's a huge range of people that play this game a lot, but for reasons different from him. Like, hearing him talk about his memories of Hawkmoon, it sounds like he doesn't understand why people aren't okay with just the memories of when your old favorite was playable. That he doesn't understand why people play like hardcore players when they don't have the same motivations as himself. That they should learn to live with Bungie being unable to both adequately encourage great end-game experience for him and a play-your-way experience for everyone else. Like, I agree that a version of weapon retirement needs to be in the game. But at the end of the day, Datto's perspective sounds very much like "These people play Destiny wrong."
@James Moriarty stay inside, wash your hands, and i pray you and your family are safe from the pandemic going about. i hope you have a good life. but also, next time you want to make a point that ends with "you fucking idiot," please do everyone a favor and walk away. take a deep breath. and look in the mirror. you're spending your time criticizing the perceived IQ of someone in the TH-cam Comment Section of a video game blogger. get your life together.
Dude, I'm with you on this one. Not wanting \ needing new weapons ever again because you got the best possible roll 2 years ago makes for stale gameplay. Bungie needs to introduce "forced balance" in terms of perks and "power" or they'll end up with another Reckoning. However, I'm in a different camp of why I don't want my old guns to not be top tier anymore. Looks and feel. I love Austringer. How it looks, how it sounds and how it feels. As soon as it came out I went for it and for a long time I had a shit roll on it, but I used it anyway because I loved the feel of the weapon. It was max power and I used it in every single activity I played. I'm someone who thinks the best weapon design in Destiny is still the D1 vanilla design and nothing Bungie has done since has made me reconsider this stance. Vision of Confluence, Saterienne Rapier, Badger CCL are the best looking and sounding weapons Bungie has ever made, in my opinion. The sights, their sound, their look, their reload animations. Those weapons embody what playing Destiny is for me. And it's not just scouts either. The ARs, the pulses, the snipers, the HCs, shotguns and fusions from vanilla D1 are still the best in terms of design in my opinion. And sadly, ever since D2 came out I haven't found a "perfect scout rifle" and probably never will. The Nameless Midnight might have been and still may be the best in terms of utility, but it looks and sounds like shit, to be honest. I hate using it. So I went with the next best thing, a hand cannon that looks like the Hawkmoon. To me all the guns in D2 look and sound more like "cheap plastic toys in space" than actual weapons. Not to mention that Bungie seems very reluctant or outright refuses to make a good kinetic mid-impact scout rifle with decent stability and good perks. The Crown of Sorrows scout is the best in terms of style, but it's energy and it's high impact, so yeah... No thanks, that's not what I want. If it was kinetic, had the same archetype as Nameless Midnight and had even somewhat decent perks I'd never put it down. As long as it could be max power, I'd settle for subpar perks. So in the end, I'd rather they change the perks of my guns every so often than to make me use different guns entirely. But that's just me, other people are welcome to disagree with me.
If Bungie's gonna keep removing the ability to get past season weapons, retirement is a must. I'm a little worried about the weapons and mods that you can only get through Sundial runs for example, because you know, Sundial never existed it seems. My worst nightmare would be if some Breachlight with specific set of perks all of a sudden became the PvP meta and all of a sudden you have this tiny % that is literal gods in Crucible and there's nothing you can do about it. And also, it's fun to get loot so weapon retirement would be real nice, but I think it would also have this opposite effect like "why even bother getting a godroll on weapon X as it will be obsolete in 3 months". I think a good way to combat this would be to keep the weapons, but make them even more perks dependent. Let people keep their absolute favorite weapon and have them grind (and earn) their power. What Bungie did with exotic bounties in D1 was the absolute best, the ones that didn't force you into a raid nor into the Crucible, it was just a long hard & grind that in the end, whether the weapon was bad or not, made it feel worth it, and to me at least it felt really good.
In year 1 of D1 the gun for my was Invective not only one of the first exotic specials I got but also the first weapon that I went yes, this is what I like.
I am of the opinion that a system similar to warframe's weapon mods would be a good compromise in Destiny. You can keep your guns, but you have to earn the mods for them (or re-earn them). Get rid of the power system and make leveling weapon mods the grind. And get rid of blues.
I think the argument I've heard most is "If I have to farm a gun and then the next year its gonna be gone, its going to be useless". So it's not going to be useful for that whole YEAR of content? I agree that having to farm the exact same weapon is annoying and in an ideal world we'd have new pieces to farm and I'm hoping they make the raid weapons the best which would give me an incentive to play the damn things.
The biggest problems I have with weapons in this game are: No difference between pinnacle gear and normal loot Boring/bad perks that have never been good and just exist for what it feels is extending the grind for weapons Lack of curated/fixed roll weapons, specially from pinnacle activities. Just imagine if in D1, to get Fatebringer, not only you had to do the raid and get the drop but also to get the correct perks withing a pool of which only 2-3 are even decent. Re-skins, dont think anyone cant understand my problem with this. Even more agregious when they are within the same archetype and can roll the same perks. Weaker exotics (I remember in D1 PVP the Suros meta, the Thorn LW and Hawkmoon meta... towards the end of D1 and all of D2 the meta just happens to be whatever weapon can roll x perks). Could say more but dont have time and is not like I expect this to be read anyways.
I would happily take weapon retirement if we could go back to fixed weapon rolls. As it stands, for casual players, either they need to cull some of the trash weapon perks or remove the good ones, because I hate feeling like I'm contributing significantly less than my friends if I'm using a weapon with an ostensibly terrible roll.
Honestly I think we already have a way for interesting builds to happen that arent just "do more damage" and "reload faster". We have exotic perks like you mentioned. But those interesting perks arent COMPLETELY bonkers, they're usually just "hey that's pretty neat". So what if for one short season... we could equip more than one exotic. Maybe limit it to specific crucible or pve playlists, but that would CERTAINLY make my Exotics actually feel more worth while and get tons of people back into theory crafting more builds. Would there inevitably be brokenly strong stuff? Yeah. But that's already the case right now, this game is really quite broken in many ways all the time.
Put nearly 100 hours into season of the undying catching up from my big break. farmed recluse, izinagis, some other good guns. Next season the best guns were... recluse, Izinagis and I could get a cool new sidearm... yay? Do the normal MMO route. New content = more powerful guns = I want them = I play.
I am worried that my favorite weapons will not be usable any more, and I won't like the new ones. I would be less worried if new weapons related to past seasons would replace the ones being retired. In my case, for instance, I like the Black Armory gear a lot, and would be fine with the weapons being replaced with newer Black Armory weapons. For me, the aesthetics and "cool factor" are still part of why I like loot.
I cant really care about the weapons and weapon retirement (take my hard earned recluse if you want to bungie whatever) the biggest problem in destiny for me is that THERE'S LITERALLY NOTHING NEW TO DO. Everything is either recycled content from previous seasons or concepts from destiny 1 (trials / dumb as fuck menagerie public events). No new raid. And simply same stuff but harder. Why would i grind for new weapons if everything new in the game feels the same. Why would i grind for 60+ exotics when there's no reason to. I cant speak for anyone else but i am ready to move the fuck on from destiny (to be fair ive prolly played 900+ hours over the years maybe its just burnout talking). There's new games coming with actual new stuff and i'm having a hard time seeing why i would keep playing destiny.
You are 100% right. The game never EVOLVES. They keep making changes but the game is always the same. Now they want to push this "more of the same" to a new level.
If the seasonnal stuff have a light bonus of 10 during the given season, it'll help you in early season or for high level activities and give us a reason to look for it. As the season goes and your level increase, you'll be able to use whatever you want.
i dont see the big deal with "your favorite guns" not being usable in master level content. you dont use them there anyway. you use what's considered meta. you use what the lfg raid team wants you to use
D1 was always this way. I'm sure some people didn't like that. Then in year 3 they let you get new versions of some retired stuff. At least once a year we should retire weapons. If not twice.
@@arsarma1808 I have a lot of guns too. Lots. Tons of rolls mostly masterworked. Lots of armor too. Do I use any of it? Lmao no because none of them will outperform the like 5 weapons and like 2 or 3 armor sets I use.
Makes a lot of sense. It's interesting that this season's weapons have no damage boosting perks. But that warmind cell damage is much stronger than kill clip and honestly a refreshing experience. Hopefully there are things like this in the futurem Weapon retirement is good. Bungie is afraid to lose the casual player base and it's understandable. However the game just throws loot at u and last season was embarrassing. Guess everyone needs a fucking participation gold plated platinum trophy. Although u will get flamed for this video which I am sure u fully expect. Don't let that bother u. Keep it up.
Anabil Ahmed some do have damage perks. The hand cannon can roll multi kill clip. Pair that with ambitious assassin (Or pair AA with feeding frenzy.) and it being a 180 makes more sense.
I miss the grindy days of D1. but in D1 the grind wasn't "hey do a bunch of easy tedious things that just take a while and aren't hard" like it is in D2. I loved doing the Outbreak prime quest line and how long it tok, and how elaborate it was, and how only a certain percentage of the D1 population got it because of how involved it was. I remember soloing the final step of Touch of Malice where you killed the wizard on Phobos and it took me SO LONG and was SO FRUSTRATING. but when I did it it felt rewarding. In D2 I don't have moments like that anymore. Also I really don't mind grinding the game for new gear, I enjoy trying out new guns and loadouts each season; it gives me something to do.
Hey datto, plz notice this comment, we need trials in D1. I never play D2 anymore and I can’t participate In trials. Anyway me and a couple of friends really want trials back and many others do too but we need you to say something to deej about it bc your a really big part in Destiny please say something if this comment get 1k likes to deej
recently came back to the game and i think weapon retirement is a great step to make loot exciting again. i agree with i think pretty much everything you mentioned and would love for bungie to really dig out the old systems that have their hands tied behind their backs and rework them. People will never be satisfied no matter how much you give and how much of the soul of this game you sacrifice to try to make people happy they will always demand more for less. its a problem that extends beyond just destiny or games in general. the only way to fix destiny and loot is to make the few upset/cry to create and revitalize the loot in this game. i wish grinding meant something again. You used to see someone in your fireteam with some awesome gun thats really good and be like wow look what he's got. i want that again. Personally (as an absolute pvp potato) the only thing i really wish bungie would stop doing in grinds is quests that reverse your progress for death in pvp. i dont mind grinding pvp for weapons and if im bad it takes longer, thats fine. but being punished with backwards progress for being bad in pvp feels really bad.
If this video has convinced me of anything (well, two things...) it's that yes, weapon retirement may very well be necessary but also that we need to cycle out damage boosting perks. In D1, we very rarely got perks on our guns that increased damage directly as often as Rampage, Kill Clip, Swash, etc. do. When I look at my D1 weapons in DIM, I see my Hung Jury from year 2, a Steel Oracle with Clown Cartridge and Tripod, Her Fury with Grenadier and Hidden Hand. Notice a trend here? No damage increasing perks, yet these were all considered God Rolls and were not the only weapons that could roll with those combinations. I have a Crytic Dragon that has Triple Tap and Firefly, same as my HJ. I have an LDR with Army of One and Hidden Hand, all but the same as Her Fury. Some stats are different, the guns come from different eras, but they all have the same thing in common, again, no damage increasing perks, yet they're still God Rolls. In conclusion, I think it's time Bungie not only retired guns, but also the perks that have made Power Creep possible as a result of their existence as "must-have" on any decent gun no matter it's stats. The game would be a hell of a lot more enjoyable if we didn't have to depend on these crutches to have a good time. It worked in D1 and we never really had this issue, why can't it work now?
datto i like your video. it's a good video. I do want to ask -- is there a point where Bungie considers separating gun frames/statistics from gun perks entirely? Imagining a world where you have to find or create "perk mods", in addition to finding guns. So when I find a parcel of stardust with good stats but I don't really care for the perks, I could just disassemble it and go hunting for the materials to make better perks to mod the weapon with. The methods for achieving these things can be very different (or similar), and breaking the loot system down into smaller pieces makes it easier to make each piece reasonably attainable without sacrificing the power of, or the emotional attachment to, the final product. You could make it so that certain weapon frames can only be infused to a certain light level (frames retire), or that certain perks stop working when the weapon is infused too far (perks retire), or both. I think it'd be good to step away from raw randomness being the way that bungie extends aspirations. Right now, getting good guns is hard because it is random and you have to just try a bunch of times. I would rather it be hard because there are a LOT of steps towards creating an optimized weapon, but I can at least form a plan around roughly how much effort it'll take to find or earn the materials needed to get there.
Ok but hear me out, if perks just had downsides then the hardcore fans can minmax to there hearts content and the casuals can just focus a couple stats and feel those stats with their hands (sense you feel connected to your gun because your controller physically vibrates “like a gun”) then exotics can keep the wacky effects uniqueness kinda maintaining the power fantasy
Decent argument. But to work, they need to make sure things like Raid guns have really desirable perks OR Raid perks like in D1. For the latter to be desirable you need a hard mode Raid to be working towards. Some lessons from D1 might be worth looking at.
gravendoom75 Borderlands 2 had this where people were grinding for weapons with the most optimal parts and now Borderlands 3 where people are grinding for optimal anointed perks for their class or build.
Two thing I look when it comes to loot : 1) it looks cool 2) fits my playstyle So this won't really bother me... (I'm pretty sure that I'm a different breed)
They would not have to retire weapons if Bungie did their own version of anointment weapons like in Borderlands especially if Bungie wants to push out build making on top of mods, perks, and stats. Could be cool to get an exotic weapon to drop and it has an anointment that benefits gunslinger hunter or something. Anointments could even make looking at blues worth keeping an eye for....it would make the game more interesting. They would not even have to make as much new loot as well since we could get so many variants of the same weapons or armors.
Demolitionist is actually kind of a reload perk, considering the mag refill when using nade. It’s just slower than other reload perks, like Outlaw and Feeding Frenzy.
I’m fine with weapon retirement, so long as bungie retires perk combo possibilities like triple tap and hip fire grip on a sniper. Oh and retire air assault forever.
People seem to forget the dozens of other looter shooters that DON'T have weapon sunsetting. Why can Warframe get by without sunsetting? Why can Borderlands get by without sunsetting? Why can The Division get by without sunsetting? Why can Remnant get by without sunsetting? What makes Destiny different that it has to take this drastic approach when no other games in the genre do that? People say 'oh well what choice does Bungie have? this is the only solution!' when I'm here using weapons that are older than Destiny 2 from other games.
Datto: "Destiny can't keep pumping out uninteresting loot, they need to incentivise players to get the loot from the newer activties insted of keeping their old stuff, be it through removing the most aggregious ones or introducing more powerful alternatives" Bungie: "we've now introduced weapon and Mod combos that created build diversity and new competetive non dmg-Perks, some of which are only on raid weapons, but unfortunately we've only made 30 unique ones" Average watcher: "Only 30?👁️👄👁️ OMG ,this👏 video 👏did👏 not👏 age👏 well👏"
Here's a disadvantage no one really talks about: it decreases the value of the DLCs. Imagine a player who joins the game in november 2020 and buys Forsaken or Shadowkeep only to find out that ALL the dlc specific gear (except exotics) is worthless. I bought Shadowkeep two days ago and I just realised this. The "lectern of enchantment" is a thing that gives mini quests and pursuits for gear that's going to be trash by the next season.
Yeah but you could say that about people who bought the base game now, the reason that’s not brought up is because without those dlc’s you can’t do certain activities, get certain exotics, and play certain raids
that is called do research b4 buying i didn't buy shadowkeep cus it offers nothing i want just got new season so your argument is just you not taking any effort to research into the game you buying and in fact it is actually a positive reason for sunsetting means new players 1 don't have to spend money on old content and new players don't have to feel like they will never be as strong as old player cus they can no longer acquire op weapons from tht old content. p.s. no body talks about that disadvantage cus 1 it not a disadvantage and 2 you might be the only one who didn't do a 30s google search to see the pros or cons of buying an expansion especially if the idea of sunsetting was the one thing to influence your decision
@@aaronforsyth3486 its called balance you have to keep a game fresh ie they have the hard content and things like pinnacle gear that just playing casual becomes really difficult to acquire and if there is nothing new to obtain old players ( like non streamers people who don't make a living playing destiny 2) will eventually get bored if there is no reason to complete the content and they will go play another game and might not return. (ffs datto himself is looking into new games to play atm because of the expansion delay) and if your game only loses players and isn't appealing to newer players then your game dies . take monster hnter world for example when the iceborn expansion released they realised any new players that didn't ply b4 would want to do the iceborn content asap and join maybe the friend that played b4 so what they did is released a gear set and weapons with weighted stats that upgrade with generic monster materials so it would be really ez to upgrade as you whent thru base worlds story missions and you would be a comprable power to start iceborn without needing to do the hours of grinding top high level content to achive saem level og gear also al that old ger because of the new rank of difficult for old players became useless and had to be replace but nobody complaied cus that gave them a reason to hunt the new monsters for the new loot. imagine if mhw was like bungie and the first set you got was relaly good and throught the entire game you could just upgrade it to max power why would you bother fighting all the hard monsters? or if all the best gear was from world and not iceborn monsters why would make new players not want to play cus they would have to go farm gear just to farm old content that not a lot of old players would be farming. like i agree that catering ONLY to casuals is bad and that is why i think they should have better loot in the raids. if you play casually or are so socially inept to get in a group of 6 and beat a raid then you don't deserve the best gear. but there has to be a balance. and sun-setting brings that balance. idk it must just be because i play destiny cus it an rpg not cus it an fps that i have played rpgs forever and i find using the same 3-5 weapons over and over for ever reeeeeealy boring.
Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Powercreep on Destiny2. So let's get to taking out our guns out of vault, one by one. Rec-luse. From what I can gather it commands the Energy slots from Legendary Perks outside of Kinetic Mountain Top. It's well protected, but with the right dev team, we can punch through those vault spaces, take this beast out, and break their grip on Meta.
Ah, recluse is fine imo. I'm more worried about hard light and revoker on trials rn on console. Recluse is all I have to combat the no-recoil hard light on console.
Prestige Leviathan could literally have just put elements on the kinetics and people would have swarmed. To be fair, they could have given all Leviathan weapons "does more damage to cabal" too
@@mrpotatoslayer2198 Curious, but how is an element a damage perk? That only functions when singes are active..and is very niche compared to current damage perks.
"What the hell Bungie, took me 87 years to get Recluse and now you're nerfing it, this game sucks, big fan though, love the game, still gonna play it." - r/DestinyTheGame
Some people like it because they are not seeing the future ramifications of this idea. Bungie does little to nothing as is. Like I've said in my post under this vid if weapon retirement happens they will not produce enough new weapons to matter. They make like what 24 a year tops rest are reskins. You will be just regrinding everything you already had and using inferior rolls. You will be stuck in gambit stuck in foundry trying to get vanguard weapons all over again for well nothing. Bungie can not and will not deliver adequate content. Luke Smith thinks this is a short cut this actually makes even more work in the long run work they will not do.
@@joshjda well.. At this point bungie should be more concerned about the survival of the company and destiny franchise, than weapon retirement. On thr path they're now, I'm not sure if y4 gona even be a thing.. And if it is, if they fk up again like they're doing now with SK and this empty y3 model, almost no one will come back. To make the things worse, they don't have the f2p trumph card to play.. The game is in realy bad state now, after the last DC I'm not sure if the things gona change tbh! Even that Smith said they'll try to meet the middle ground.. At this point maybe the company should start thinking about switch head leaders, someone with fresh blood and new ideas because scarab lord atm is slowly destroying destiny. As far as weapon retirement goes, if I Wana use a "turd" all the time I should use it. Manipulating the "turds" I use to create an artificial handicap or an artifical meta of 'turds" doesn't make any sense.. Make content, work and have passion for your freaking game! Be creative and try new things, stop thinking about making easy money, instead of making ppl enjoy your and loving your game! If those fk heads do that, they gona get a lot of money.. My last thought about this video and this smurf! This guy is so full of bs that is almost disgusting tbh.. No to mention that this video looks more like a justification, than an analysis! Especialy after most ppl mix this guy bs with bungie doing bs.. Which I would be surprised tbh. But hey.. While ppl keep listening to him, he's gona have power to be vocal and bungie will keep fucking up. And don't get me wrong, some things he's right, but most things and critical things, he's not.. Just my 2 cents anyway..
@@neoshell4941 Yep dude is totally full of shit. He's just mad that other streamers are making money off "his game". He wants to shut them out essentially. He is a sad selfish little nerd tbh.
21:48 I think the TH-camrs have some kind of influence in what people want, that's why, I think, is reason grinding for best role possible and spending hours upon hours to find that role which that TH-camr uses.
Yup. It seems every time a TH-camr uploads a video titled "NEW META!", "GET THIS GUN NOW!", "THIS GUN MAY BE THE NEW META?!" or any time of iteration, the gun is literally fucking everywhere within a couple days for me
To the interesting perk point: Demolitionist and Overflow. These are the types of perks I want to see more of. Are they still reload perks? Yes. But they're different and provoke more nuance in how one wants to play. As for the fact that you want to regrind the "same gun" again after retirement... Well, guess we'll just have to disagree. I'd rather see Bungie push the niche archetypes more, flesh them out with more types and rebalance the sandbox (for heavies in particular) to make weapons all feel competitive. Will there still be metas? Yes. But at least if I choose to use shotgun, lightweight pulse, and a rocket launcher I won't feel completely useless.
On top of weapon retirement, they should straight retire some perks and perk combinations. They definitely have introduced interesting builds and perks, like the warmind cells.
Overflow i think is underrated. People want reload perks on weapons but somehow they don't want overflow. Take a look at Curated Spare Ratios for example, Overflow and explosive payload. I think literally what's wrong with that? But people are calling that the worst curated hand cannon. Is not like rapid hit and kill clip will make you the best player ever. And unless you are a sweating try hard god tier player or below average then I promise you won't notice much different between the two rolls in both PVE and PVP when you playing the game right.
This comment is pretty missleading, they did it because people asked for more power for less work ex; nf requiers a long quest that ends with you in legend comp. recluse only requires you to reach fabled and the latter is the best gun in the game
Tume I here’s the thing there are more casuals then hardcore players so it becomes a situation where it’s like the needs of the many versus the needs of the few. People would just stop playing if all the good stuff is behind raids or whatever and those people can’t raid.
Makis rwssos Yeah and bungie is gonna have to make big changes to the loot if they want to see improvements like actually putting good loot behind hard activities and not caring what the less skilled people complain about
Also I dont mind a hard grind for weapons. However, if my hard grind for a weapon ends in it being retired, then that actually encourages me to no longer chance the best weapons, because I now know..they will only be good for a little while, and therefore not worth the grind.
After watching the video I am honestly curious what would come out of a debate between you and Cammycakes on this topic. Since you both give solid arguments and are on the opposing sides of the spectrum. Also, about weapons being thrown at us so much, I suspect it is because of the retirement, Bungie wants us to get the weapons we desire early in their lifecycle. If they make things rare or not easy to farm people won't be able to get them in the 9 months they are relevant, thus just creating frustration and many upset people.
Datto is a PvE content creator, Cammy is a PvP content creator. Weapon balance has usually worked completely differently in these different modes, so it is not a surprise that they approach the situation in a different way. Another specific detail about Cammy is also that he purposefully tries using weird and "off-meta" loadouts constantly, since that is what he enjoys. Constantly utilizing those would become a lot harder with item retirement/resets.
@@Lexustio Well yea, and that's why I think it'd be interesting to see the opinions clash since they see it from such different angles. And the weird and off meta loudouts are because he can think past revoker and hardlight, which sadly most of the community can't. Even more so in PvE, the way I see people asking for weapon retirement from a PvE side is just wanting to be forced to grind for new weapons. And that's the thing, it won't be all it's made out to be. No grinding for those cool new weapons revitalizing the game. It'll be grind out a good enough weapon with a reload and damage perk and then sit with it 9 to 12 months and complain how loot is boring again after a while.
Lexustio It really wouldn’t at all though??? He plays PvP and the only place where power matters is in Trials and in Iron Banner. He can goof off with off meta load-outs literally everywhere else in PvP with or without weapon retirement.
@@smoltoaster But Trials matters massively. It's the pinnacle of pvp. That's where you'd want your weapons to matter. take for example he Forsaken Antiope-D. You can get that from the gunsmith. it took him 8 month to get the roll he wanted. Now with weapon retirement that'd be mean he spent 8 months of time trying to get it and then he may only use it for 1 month in trials and then he'd just have to abandon it.
Gf: hey babe whatcha listing to?
Me: datto talking about weapon retirement for 26 minutes
I’m single now
Brain Eater probably left you because of your spelling XD
I took them same trade. No regrets.
are you sure you havent been single in the first place
it sounds like you've reached pinnacle power. change the ornament on your profile picture to Zavala with glowing red eyes to show that you've gone flawless in the Trials of Feelsbadman.
Lame as hell
"I don't care that a linear fusion rifle gets firing line"
Oh Datto, how little you knew
I just want the wrath of the machine style perks back on raid weapons.
They looked good,had good or decent combo perks and did extra damage against its correct fashion plus a 5% movement speed increase
I want them to do that to Curated rolls. But I don't want Raids to have fixed rolls like they did in D1.
Hell, I would even like if the Curated Rolls were exclusive to heroic mode, for example. Give people a reason to go do Heroic Mode, other than just because of the armor ornaments.
@@highfivemistertorque4537 Looked good? So you like the base weapons with a piece of SIVA smashed into the side of it?
Same
Kyragem um... Yeah, I did
Everyone worried about weapon retirement and I’m just sitting here wanting to be able to put shaders on exotics & ornaments that change the appearance of a gun to look like another.
Qwazplop you want your exotics to look like legendaries to fit in with your armour set? Bro, i feel your pain
Right? That's a part of the issue for me. I like the look of some guns that don't perform well. I'd have a good time if I could take that hakke auto rifle look and put it on something new...
Qwerty Bastard I realised that after giving it some thought, exotics should be powerful but also aesthetically unique. But I don’t need to see a titan to know that he’s running one eyed mask
Weapon retirement seems like it's a full time vs part time player thing. Full time players feel tired of seeing the same loot or using the same guns over and over again but more casual players either have no opinion on this or just want to use their favorite guns. I personally have thousands of kills on my service revolver and ikelos sniper and I'd hate being unable to use them in iron banner or trials.
Mecha Zard RNG is such a huge factor, that’s why it’s irritating.
@@Publano rng has gone out the window more and more with each passing season though, it's gotten so easy. That was true in the past but it think it wouldn't be nearly as hard to get a good weapon in the future
yeah, working 8h a day + 4h commute i really dont feel like grinding like a madman every season
I understand the hardcore´s view, but i like the game being daddy friendly hahah
I'm just waiting for complete armor sets to become universal ornaments so I can empty my vault
Lol, i was thinking this yesterday, whit armor 2.0 theres no reason to keep armor.
Get the raid armor, and thats it; mix and match.
Theyr adding that its called transmog
Your wish has been granted lmaoo
Is there a reason we aren’t getting factions and quartermasters back?
agreed. even with the “lack of participation” that bungie observes, still think it would be a great addition to players to grind more for which is always good
@@chaluparazz Some of the major points of this video revolve around bungie having a smaller team and not enough resources to do a lot of these things. There has to be some give and take. Doing it "just because" doesn't cut it when resources could go elsewhere in a more impactful manner.
Honestly, a major point I feel that you completely overlooked is the cosmetic aspect of our legendary weapons. For instance, I may have a really nice Outlaw/Kill Clip Pulse from a recent season, yet still find myself gravitating toward a pulse rifle with the very same roll, from 3 or 4 seasons ago, simply because I love the *look* --the design style of that earlier weapon. In a game where cosmetic attunement is something we focus a massive amount of our time on, I can unequivocally say that the way a weapon looks as it rests in your character's hands (in an FPS, no less) certainly affects your experience as you play. If a weapon has a great roll, but it's ugly as sin, you may tire of using it pretty quickly, and that "fun" factor is negatively affected, albeit maybe to a lesser degree. But still, it plays a part in overall enjoyment. The season of Dawn weapons, in my opinion, are some of the best weapon designs that Bungie's given us in a long time. And I'm of the mind that, since I love those designs, I'd like to keep using my uniquely-rolled gear from that season, without the looming knowledge that they'll eventually be useless in harder activities. Those weapons my have been "easier" to grind than most seasons, but to get the rolls I wanted to experiment with still took *scores* of hours, since Bungie isn't known for creating friendly RNG. I don't want to continue repeating that process, always knowing that gear has an expiration date. That doesn't scream "fun." It groans "waste of time." Regardless, I feel like you and I will simply have to take the "agree to disagree" route, because arbitrarily forcing players to move on from gear they love, does indeed go against the "play the way you want" motto that Bungie always stood by. By definition, that's just objectively true. They should either stand by the saying, or make it clear that the ideology comes with some major, contradictory "but's".
This is pretty much exactly it. Have I built up an arsenal of weapons I absolutely love over the many months since Forsaken? Absolutely! Will I use some of those until the end of this game? Probably! Does it stop me from grinding for good rolls on new weapons introduced every new season? Absolutely not! Take the Seraph weapons, they look and feel quite awesome, so I ground for them, and they're quite awesome! I find it somewhat ridiculous that it somehow matters if we don't keep using new weapons as long as we have our fun with them for a while.
Ultimately I'm still playing the game to get them if there are ways to grind which aren't annoying, and isn't that what matters in the end? I genuinely feel like people overlook the fact that a lot of people will grind just for the sake of it, just to try out the new weapons.
Agree with this actually. Cool insight
Yeah, because he ignored all the actual points in this video to make kids think weapon retirement isn’t actually an awful idea
100%! You literally took the words right out'a my mouth! The cosmetic aspect is a huge part of the game for me. In fact aside from Destiny being something to do with my friends, it's the MAIN thing. It's why I main a Hunter. It's why Ace of Spades is my favorite gun. It's why I grind for certain things and ignore others. For me, it's all about what draws my eye, and what sparks emotion in me. There are weapons I don't use for the very reason you brought up... they fugly. lol So for me, and others, throwing more powerful shit at us and making our old fav guns irrelevant, uh... yeah, why wouldn't we be pissed off??? I'll grind for cosmetics till the end of time, I'll grind for something I want if I get to KEEP it, but grinding for something that one day, even if it's a whole year away, will not be useful??? Uh, no thanks. This whole thing is an issue any MMO-esque or ongoing content type game suffers from... Bungie just is floundering imo where other games have figured it out (Fortnite for example, and I'm talking about both modes, or FFXIV, etc). I understand they are in a pickle, and they're just doing their best trying to please a wide variety of types of players, which makes their job more difficult. However, that doesn't make me less upset about sunsetting.
this is kinda like how in old call of duty games, everyone would pick either the perk that gave them more health or more damage. Those perks ended up removed or changed in subsequent titles because they were bad for the game as a whole.
I'm having OMA flashbacks.
When I eventually got it, the vex mythoclast was my year 1 memory. God did I melt in pvp and violate in PvE, the glory days.
As it should be. But a huge problem in many games is the developers want you to be weak because they are incapable of creating challenge unless you have one arm tied behind your back. I miss year 1 d1. It was fun.
You mean for a few weeks before it was killed right lol
shadowsintox9 Yes, there must definitely be one weapon that absolutely stomps out all other weapons. That’s definitely how it should be.
@@thelouster5815 not really what I meant when I said that. Poor wording on my part. I meant how he clearly had a lot of fun with that weapon cause it was good. There were a lot of good weapons in d1. They felt powerful. I want that back.
Like it used to be you burn through everything but hard mode raids and nightfall. But even in those 2 you still felt strong, you just had to be careful cause you could get one shot or quickly killed if you played stupidly.
In d2 you can still get murdered but you dont feel powerful. I dont care much about the balancing for pvp. It used to be fun as hell back in year 1 before trails when people would actually run around. Soon as trails started the majority of people became camping bitches which ruined pvp.
Even now it's still slow and boring kinda. People ride each others dicks. It's pretty lame.
But theres alot that d2 needs. Such as being able to fully customize your Class perks, not be forced to one perk set.
Its developers just forcing ppl to play how they want because if the player has freedom they are incapable of making a challenge.
My opinion is this: As long as weapon Retirement doesn't Apply to Exotics, I'm fine with it. But that's me.
They said they would be the exception
i don't see a reason to retire exotics at this time.
@@DattoDoesDestiny I had an idea a while back to mix up the meta. Not game-breaking imo but also very different and new. What if, to promote weapon loadout diversity in endgame content, old exotics were granted intrinsic Anti-Champion perks? Like how Leviathan's Breath works against Unstoppable, or Eriana's against Barrier. What if Sunshot had intrinsic Anti-Unstoppable Rounds? Or Huckleberry had intrinsic Anti-Overload? I think it would be a game changer. I suppose there could be an activity or something to unlock that perk (similar to catalysts but much more endgame and difficult). Thoughts?
I would agree with this if Exotics could actually use Champion mods. As it is, I find very little reason to use exotics in high end PVE.
@@96ayasaki ....that's kinda what I'm saying, but they wouldn't be mods. It would be automatic. Exotics can't use mods period, but something like Divinity has Anti-Overload built in. What if older exotics were updated to also included intrinsic perks like that, not mods
3 years of severe powercreep later, can we admit that maybe sunsetting weapons wasn't the worst idea? Sure, we did end up farming for very similar or sometimes exactly the same weapons that we used to have, but how many of those old guns would still even be good in the current meta? Without a way to cycle weapons out, Bungie has had to consistently up the power of guns for the last 3 years until we've hit a point where new guns are having to drop with meta defining perks just to get anybody to even look at them. Everytime a new season drops, I scroll through light gg, take a mental note of ~3 guns that might be good, and immediately write off the rest of the new weapons because they'll just be worse than what I already have.
I'm not saying sunsetting is the perfect solution, I understand why it sucks. But if its the only way to make loot actually exciting in this game again, then its worth it.
There are plenty of more ways to make loot exciting, take subclass synergy perks like voltshot and incandescent, they make most guns that came before look silly. We're a week away from into the light right now and--granted, when you made this comment we didn't know this yet--but we're getting some of the most powerful weapons of all time, most of them being weapons that are currently sunset. In a looter shooter, it's the developer's job to make loot interesting, not to force us to change. Forcing the players to make a decision rather than making them excited to make that decision is bad game design.
Edit: and about power creep, of course we don't want power creep to get out of hand like OG mountaintop and recluse, but there are 2 things to keep in mind: they could have just balanced them, like they are now. We've seen almost every pinnacle perk return on random rolled weapons, but in a worse state then they released. That's a good thing, that's what they're supposed to do. Secondly, power creep to some degree is inevitable, it's a looter shooter, if the loot isn't upping the ante at least a little bit then I don't want it. I understand where you're coming from but sunsetting is just not the best way to go about it since it makes the game less fun and artificially creates incentive.
The "but the weapon will still exist after retirement" argument always feels stale to me. Why would I use a weapon in PvP and get good with it, if I can't bring it into Trials or IB? Aside from dicking around, why would I use it in Heroic Strikes or Patrols or PE? Hell, why am I doing those things to begin with? Aside from getting a nostalgia kick when farming bounties, the only activities where I can genuinely revel in how great my favorite gun is are ones that it would be made obsolete in: Raids, Dungeons, Nightfalls, Trials, IB, and even Gambit.
Yes, and this is the point, making players have a new favorite gun every 6-9 months could bring diversity and balance back to the game. Weapon retirement is meant to force you to use something different in those activities. Plus it would not be made obsolete in gambit, gambit is not power based, so your weapon choice wouldn't matter
P.S. I'm seeing this argument with pvp players saying that because a weapon won't be able to be used in trials and Iron Banner it'll be useless. Do you people only play trials? Iron Banner is a limited time event and Trials is the ENDGAME, It's supposed to be the 'raid' of pvp, not the main gamemode. And if trials is the "only (PvP) activity where I can genuinely revel in how great my favorite gun is" Then how come I see so many Spare rations mindbenders tryhards in quickplay,
@@benjaminmarson4622 did your play year 1 in D1? If you did, you’d know how bad it felt to be forced to leave those great weapons behind. When bungie listened to the community, it was decided to start infusing weapons to allow us to keep the great guns and not be forced to play one specific way. The whole “play your way” line inspired this infusion change, and it made destiny better overall with the ability to keep using the weapons/armor we wanted to use.
Now, Luke smith has to apply his dumb “magic the gathering” and “WoW” logic to destiny (a game that solely was designed to be a FPS looter shooter) and it’s ruining things again. When him and his ego took over at bungie, it was responsible for some of the worst decisions since year 1 of D1, and we’re about to experience big changes that ruin things, yet again. The problem is ppl like datto (who use destiny as their literal job) want a challenge and don’t think of the many casual/solo/regular players who enjoy feeling powerful. Just because datto and his YT buddies can smash new content wish ease and claim power creep, the majority of players can’t. The game shouldn’t be decided by a small minority of ppl (YTers and streamers who have bungies ear) when most ppl want the big power fantasy we were promised. It’s not our fault that full time streamers are too good at the game, but anyone who’s been playing since sept 2014 knows dropping weapons is a backwards move that’ll hurt more than help.
If bungie put out good guns across the board, ppl would be okay with leaving stuff behind, but they aren’t good at it, the perks are intentionally crap most of the time, and no, it’s not worth using a weak weapon AT ALL in any mode... end of story. Again, if you played year 1 of D1, you’d know that tryin to use your fatebringer in any nightfall, strike, crucible, patrol, raid... anything... felt underpowered. No one is trying to use weak weapons when enemies scale and activities demand you have the strongest guns. I don’t want a challenge by making my guns weak, so I just won’t use them. And I know most ppl won’t either, cause data from D1 2014/2015 told bungie this. They knew we weren’t becoming “legend” by dropping our hard earned weapons, so again, they brought in infusion. Now, because they’re lazy and always changing the meta, this is the next step. It’s wrong.
I’m sorry, but anyone who streams destiny for a living shouldn’t have the ultimate say. I was here since the beginning and I along with my friends know leaving weapons behind (especially after they introduced infusion) is backwards thinking. If you agree with leaving stuff behind, you either didn’t play D1 when it was a thing OR you’re blinded by the “bungie does no wrong” idea. People like datto tell bungie whatever to get on their good side and for their benefit, not ours. This is a bad move and only sheep and streamers agree with the “leave weapons behind” idea.
@@NeckPUNCHattack
Okay, lets address this quote by quote
First, I did not play Y1 D1, but I'm sure Datto did
"not be forced to play one specific way" Well, now we kind of are forced to play one specific way, with almost every destiny youtuber constantly making videos on what's the best, if you don't use the best thing, what are you doing? If there's going to be a 'meta' no matter what at least have the meta change every so often
"The problem is ppl like datto want a challenge of the many casual/solo/regular players who enjoy feeling powerful" I see this faulty thinking a lot in destiny criticism. Just because people like Datto aren't the majority, doesn't mean people like you are. You can't just claim what the majority wants because you have no idea what they want. (This comes up many other times so I choose not to Point it out every time)
"The game shouldn’t be decided by a small minority of ppl" It's not, while I'm sure bungie does listen to youtubers and streamers, I'm also sure they don't only listen to them.
"If bungie put out good guns across the board" To consistently do that, they would have to just make something better then what is currently in the game, which leads to power creep.
"activities demand you have the strongest guns" Do they really? do strikes "Demand" you have recluse izanagis to beat them. I'm sure what you mean is the activities that matter (High difficulty nightfalls, raids, etc.) 'demand' you to have the best weapons. Even those don't really though, you can easily beat a raid with a non-meta loadout as long as you know what you are doing and the same goes for high difficulty nightfalls.
"People like datto tell bungie whatever to get on their good side and for their benefit, not ours" This is kind of ridiculous, if datto was making this video just to get on Bungies good side, then why are there so many videos of him criticizing Destiny and saying what is wrong with the game. The only way you could think this is if you haven't seen his other videos or you think that the only real criticism is screaming THIS GAME SUCKS over and over.
Finally, I've played destiny for a little over a year and a half, and I know first-hand that change is good. When Shadowkeep first dropped and everybody used recluse, towards the end I got bored, then when season of dawn dropped and I used randy's, I was having fun again, but that fun dwindled and towards the end I was bored again. This is just the cycle and if the activity is really easy then I will sometimes use a different loadout because it is FUN. As human beings, change is good. Imagine if you were forced to watch your favorite movie non-stop for a day, eventually you would get sick of it. The same applies to guns in destiny, people use the same thing in all pve activities because they know it to be 'the best' when in most pve activities your choice of guns don't matter, so change will make you enjoy the game more.
@@benjaminmarson4622 okay... I’m sorry, but I had trouble reading all of that, so I’m just gonna tell you that since you didn’t live it the first time around, you don’t know.
And Yes, bungie do listen to the YT minority. If you know datto, you know he frequently blows smoke up bungies behind to get in their exclusive events, hosting events, etc... it’s a very well known fact that bungie listens to YTers over the majority of gamers. When D2 released, it was the only time they listened to community feedback by making it a more “accessible” game for casuals. It backfired, YTers were the ones invited to the “destiny summit” to get feedback on how to change the game (and only YTers, not random ppl), and since then, bungie has shown time and time again that they listen to YTers now so they don’t screw up again.
I’m sorry, but you either don’t know all the backstory (and I do since I’ve been here since the alpha/beta of D1) or you’re just blindly following bungie, with a disregard for what’s actually going on. I used to think they could do no wrong, but I’m an open minded person, so I noticed all the things and patterns that happened to get us to where we are now. You don’t wanna accept it, that’s on you, but anyone in the know understands bungie listens to YTers first, then their community managers (like cozmo or dmg04) will occasionally listen to feedback.
Anyway, just because you deem this change good doesn’t mean it is. I was there when this idea happened the first time and it sucked. People tend to forget that even datto hated the light system and was upset about leaving good weapons behind, but now that it’s their daily job, they need a challenge. They can’t self impose challenges, so they have to make it suck for the rest of us with these backwards ideas, but I remember when even the upcoming datto and other destiny YTers hated leaving weapons behind back then. They’re being hypocrites now only because they’re telling bungie what they wanna hear. It’s that simple. If you don’t understand that, then you won’t understand leaving stuff behind as a bad thing.
Again, if you were there first time around, you’d be on the same page as me. The only problem is the YTers who said it sucked then don’t say it now cause it’s their freakin job! They don’t wanna bite the hand that feeds them, and they won’t. If you can’t come to terms with that, then idk what to say, but it’s a fact it sucked when it happened, and it’ll suck the next time because bungie make a portion of weapon bad on purpose. If all weapons were good to some degree, I wouldn’t be against this, but this is treated like magic the gathering, so they say they’re always gonna have a portion a bad weapons... they don’t make enough good ones to have fun with, so this is bad.
Again, if you saw it first hand, you’d know, but you didn’t, so you can’t imagine it and you’re just going off of what YTers are saying and they’re saying it to appease bungie. If you don’t know that, maybe you’re not thinking for yourself then.
@@benjaminmarson4622 also, you just started a year ago? I’ve experienced every meta change, I’ve seen great weapons get nerfed just to make ppl use other bad weapons, I’ve experienced the exact thing you’re fighting for.... “change is good”.... no' it ain’t. I have year 1 elemental kinetic (adept) weapons sitting in my D1 vault that were left behind, and no, there isn’t any situation that warrants using them again. Bungie even made sure that once weapons got left behind, they double nerfed them so ppl couldn’t and wouldn’t use them in ANY activity.
In the eyes of the community, you’d still be considered a noob because you haven’t been here long enough to know how we’ve seen metas change, just for them to come around again. The hard light meta? Yea, that was a thing in D1. It was nerfed to kill the use of it til bungie was ready to bring it around again. This is what they do, and I’m sorry but ppl like you who think “a year” is grounds for speaking on this subject, well, it isn’t. If you knew first hand how bad this stuff is, then you’d be able to say it’s good or bad, but you’re still new to destiny, and you’re listening to a guy (datto) who shills for bungie daily. No, this isn’t toxic talk, it’s truth. Ask anyone who saw him start out or were here as long or longer than him, they’ll tell you, he says this stuff to appease bungie. You can hate me for going against what you like, but I’m telling you.... play destiny for a couple years... you’ll start to see what I’m saying is true, and one day, years from now, you’ll think back and realize you were just blinded by destiny. It happened to all of us.... but the ones who’ve been here the longest have seen thru bungies tactics and know that this “change” isn’t good.
I know I’m not gonna convince you, but put my 6+ yrs of destiny playtime towards your 1.5 yrs and I know I’ve been here to see metas come around multiple times and this very thing that’s happening with weapon change.... it went away because these same youtubers collectively said it sucked (along with the community), so bungie developed the infusion system. It was literally born out of how much leaving weapons behind was hated and was a bad thing. The problem is that no Yter wants to disagree with bungie when it’s their main source of income and they’ve invested so much time into getting in with them. They actually spoke their minds when it was negative in the beginning, now, not so much.
Anyway, if you had enough time with destiny like us vets, you’d see my point of view. There is a thing that makes ppl blind to this stuff and think bungie do no wrong, but one day, you’ll see it. Til then, I can’t agree with anything you’ve written.
That wizard staff I'm attached too, I can keep with me as transmog. You can't do that with destiny.
Ace and that is the MAIN DIFFERENCE between destiny and an mmo yet people fail to see understand what you just typed
He literally covered that a few minutes later lmao
Yes, this is all I've wanted since destiny launched.
Also the whole talk about seasonal memories. If that were the case why are people still going crazy about copy and pasted weapons from d1? They clearly have not "moved on" from them as he says.
@@kiwa8830 We have moved on though. Of course if something you liked comes back people are going to be excited. I'm not desperate for any D1 weapons to come back to D2, but if they bring back Vex Mythoclast you bet I'm gonna be hyped.
Weapon retirement just sounds like fomo with extra steps
How? The weapons will still be there and they'll still be usable for the majority of the game. There's nothing to miss out on when it still exists and is still usable.
@@gaiance That's assuming that Bungie doesn't increase the required light level for current content to prevent people from using old weapons.
Oros III literally thats the entire point of weapon retirement
If anything I’d consider it the opposite of fomo. fear of missing out is like oh, if I don’t get this now, I’ll never be able to. The argument against weapon retirement is what’s the point of getting this gun if I don’t get to keep it
@@gaiance Big fuckin WOOP! "Look! We can use these weapons that took us months of grinding on the dated activities no one cares about!" < you in a nutshell. Sorry, I worked hard for my guns, so I should be able to use them on the activities I want to use them on, no?
more like Datto finds the effects plugins in his daw
The Destiny community's demands are pushing unreasonable, are mixed and sometimes unattainable. I feel sorry for Bungie's development team in some ways, as the time they have to develop new content isn't long enough to flesh out fully, but they seem to feel they need to release it before it's ready to alleviate the pressure the community puts on them. Then there's the Streamer vs. Casual argument. The divide is becoming even larger and there is no way Bungie will be able to please both sides. Then there's the pure existence of anything, that leads to development of higher levels of expectation. Everyone loved the game when it was at it's simplest, but something can't remain on a base level of simplicity before it gets 'boring'. Bungie are reaching a stage where they have an almost insurmountable task of developing the game in a way that largely meets the majorities requests. It feels like Destiny is close to imploding.
This... the game has a lot of uneducated vocal people... that is the problem
These people talk to Bungie as if all they did was wrong...
I am not gonna pretend they always got it right... but lets be frank... they are the devs... they make the damn product... we can only accept it or bail out... a looter needs fresh loot... in a world where infusion is a thing, sunsetting needs to exist
@@victorbertini5614 looter shooter pretty sure destiny is supposed to be an mmo but it doesn't act like mmo
i just want story, character moments, story moments that leave me breathless. i dont care about these mini story archs cause they just suck. theres no new enemy to fight and no new areas to fight them in. thats my reason for not really caring for this game lately
My name is byf just released a good video on that topic that was really well done.
D grave that’s fair that’s personally why I try to dive deep into the lore to make it more interesting and for something’s that others may think are small it can really make stuff more interesting because you know what this could mean, it’s almost like an inside joke. It’s a lot better when you know what it is
@@twistedstorm8821 yeah but its just lore. Ive said once and ill keep saying it till this game dies or i, the game would be infinitely better if all the lore was put into the game as interactable or missions done by you're character. I dont want to read it, i want to experience it.
I’m surprised that there has only been 1 new enemy type, and it’s severely underused, with the other enemy types being very over saturated (with the exception of the taken, though I still don’t understand why they still exist).
@@SmoothTurtle840 technically there are many 'new' enemy types since D1. Red legion are fundamentally different to regular cabal. Taken were new in D1 and have been expanded a ton in D2. The fallen have many new members and were expanded upon too. It's not like they aren't improving.
Before I start I want to say I absolutely love the world they’ve created and have spent enormous amounts of time enjoying this game. In my opinion The problem is upgrades are pigeonholed into linear “more level or damage is better”. It’s a symptom of classes having little to no variability as much as weapon perks being more or less the same. If we instead took a page out of other RPGs(like diablo) and had an ability where enemies took more damage from a specific element or enemies a certain distance range take more damage as a passive. Ex. Enemies further than 30 meters Ex.2 grenade gives damage buff to arc for 5 seconds. You could then change items to have perks that are more based on play style or build strategy. Ex. Scout rifle with a perk of standing still gives damage buff while moving gives equal nerf, Or opposite for an smg.Things that feel good when played a certain way but, aren’t one size fits all. There are so many examples from other rpgs that they don’t have to reinvent the wheel to get an engaging experience in a unique way. While if we look at the shooter aspect, games like CoD allow you to change scopes, magazine size and grips all with tradeoffs. It feels like they ended up with a rpg with no meaningful class choices and a shooter that lacks weapon customization. This is probably from the constant complaining from us the community and the constant changes happening within their company. I can’t imagine the direction struggle that comes from having Activision over the shoulder and then running their own show all while the community is this vocal. Whatever happens, this game will go down as one of my favorites of all time and I wish it and bungie nothing but longevity and success.
Watching this made me realize how different Elder Scrolls Online is from other MMOs/RPGs. As a destiny fan and ESO fan I can’t help but draw some parallels but also things that ESO does better. Raid gear being the best (but also previous raid gear being really good) and no hard resets being the two biggest awesome differences imo.
"We don't use osmosis"
Speak for yourself, I spent all of last season loving Osmosis, it's one of my favorite new perks and has proven itself near essential in match game
I use my Patron with Osmosis for anything with Match Game now
He's not speaking for himself he's speaking about the community, as a whole, going for the easy perk combo and "intresting" to most of the community being more powerful weapons.
Heinz yeah, you and the 87 other people love it
He means it in the way that most people dont use it even though it might be powerfull. But its just not good enough to grind for it. I mean almost every activity is easily doable without osmosis and osmosis makes it not really easier
Same I love osmosis.
Oh man, I'm rewatching this in light of current events and some of the forum arguments against weapon retirement are things Datto mentioned, word for word, here.
this whole weapon retirement we had was probably the worst idea that Bungie couldve done. It's honestly not only the weapons but the content in the sunsetting event that Beyond Light had. There will always be a better weapon to get, no matter what they drop. Weapons are not only a constant change in the game but its also something new. Just because something old is here to stay doesnt mean people are going to stick with it forever. were all jaded at some point and i think people will move on from a weapon, even raid weapons. If you like the gun, cool, if you dont, move on from it and get another one that suits your needs. Obviously this was before beyond light, but Bungie will eventually add some weapons that are the same as older weapons, if not better. They literally added older weapons that arent sunset such as the menagerie weapons. I will expect some seasons to add older weapons such as the forge weapons. Im assuming theyre trying to right their wrongs by adding these weapons.
Look, I absolutely will quit the game if they start retiring weapons (I did it in d1 from taken king till age of triumph when they brought most guns back)
Reason is just like you said, I farmed ALL THE GODS ROLLS and I use them all the time (Unlike people who stick with same guns forever). My point is if someone wants to play like me they should be able to as well as if they want to use just one gun they can as well.
That being said I understand the conundrum, so here some suggestions:
- Warframe went with the riven mods, which makes guns less used by the comunity more powerful every season
- Weapon synergy is sorely lacking in destiny, we just have with sturm and drang and mida multi and mini tools, pairing perks to certain weapon archetypes could work, like a bow archetype that gives quickdraw to a handcannon archetype when you hit an arrow and the hand cannon archetype gives your next arrow firefly when you make a multikill, so each one is a meh weapon on its own but together they work wonders, and having 3,4 handcannons and bows on those archetypes gives you 9-16 combinations which will makes us worthwhile to farm and experiment.
Also, i agree that the seraph weapons were a good solution with mod synergy, but seriously, a weapon to weapon archetype synergy would be great.
Not gonna grind quest weapons or rituals if it's gonna be pointless in a few months. I'm sure my time can be better spent
didn't he address that in the video?
@@aleisnotreal to create memories?
CreationsVibration
A year not a few months.
@@nicholasn.2883months year, regardless I'll just use whatever drops, everything kills things.
If you don’t want to keep them just dismantle them and get free masterwork cores (not like those are already being fed to us like we’re little kids via guardian games)
Hey datto please notice this comment,we need trials in D1 I never play D2 anymore and can’t participate in trials bc I’m Garbo anyway me and a couple of friends really want trials back and many others do to but we need u to say something to deej about it bc ur a really big part in destiny if this comment gets 1000 likes can u say something about it to deej
Heres where I stand.
- Make all stats visible (AA, Accuracy, recoil direction, ect)
- Make Transmogging a full blown thing (cosmetic wise. Let me take the model of one thing and put it on a similar thing. Hammerhead = MG, Scholar = Scout, ect)
- Adjust how stats work similar to how they have slowly been since launch. I want to gain actual sprint speed and slide distance from mobility but maybe this come at a cost to resilience or recovery.
- remove the general and specific mod slots in favor of just 3-4 mod slots with the same pool. If I just want to buff my stats than let me, if I want to focus on a grenade/melee combo--- *Then let me*
Retire weapons, but let players show off they're past loot. I shouldn't need to re-earn my armor or weapons when I could just throw their model on a newer gun that has better power//stats//perks. People wouldn't ask for their old legendaries back if they can just put the models on their new guns. This would also fix old content to some extent without bungie needing to go back to pull another age of triumph (though to be honest all raids should be considered end game with the newest raid just rewarding slightly better gear stat//power wise)
@@speedyvena it's not like any of it would matter. I mean D1 retired and reissued guns from Y1. It cleared the loot pool for new stuff and gave some old classics back. With this they can at least take their Ringing nail and put its model on the new autorifle from season 12. Armor is already confirmed to be getting Transmogging so that too can help alleviate problems. People are just overreacting
The only issue that I would see with universal transmog would be exotics and pinnacles (You know, recluse, revoker, and mountaintop tier weapons) because of the unique ways that they can impact the battlefield. Well, that and what it would mean for literally all shotguns, smgs, and sidearms (the weapons that have the biggest desire for range).
Obviously they weren't going to add exotics to any form of universal transmog, because you do genuinely need to see that this dude is wearing saint-14's helmet inside of his bubble, you're going to be blinded when you step in. Or this dude is carrying around wardcliff coil and not just some random legendary launcher. But this should also be extended to any new pinnacle-tier weapons they add, as you shouldn't have to memorize which one of their 3 titans is using Revoker if you manage to get a good look at the sniper they're hardscoping with.
Then there's the issue that cosmetics have with weapon range. Did you know that if you equip The Panama Ravine ornament on The Chaperone, you get about an extra meter of range over the default appearance? This is because, for some bloody reason, barrel length translates to falloff distance. Chances are, this is because of the round being spawned at the end of the barrel or Bungie actually made range stat more impactful on weapons with longer barrels. What's annoying is that they made *modified* appearance affect the falloff. So that would have to be fixed before universal weapon transmog.
@@GeassX notice how universal ornaments don't work on gambit prime armor and exotics. that be the same here. We're already getting armor Transmogging soon from Bungies own words so being able to do the same with weapons wouldn't be too bad.
Also Panama ravine adds so little. Did you really do what Fallout said not to? Did you skim over the information and over exaggerate?
Also to give a great example here is the service revolver, better devils, and living memory, all Identical models, all different archetypes.
Also barrel length was shown to have non noticeable effects on other guns like HC's as the longest HC (Midnight coup) had no difference in range compared to a spare rations and that was pre nerf that nerfed all HC damage ranges and fall off.
The effects of barrel length are no minimal that they dont have any serious effects on most weapon types (especially swords; no shit am I right)
The only gun class that has this issue is shotguns and again, they're inconsistent and though barrel length has some effect, it's so minor, it damn near negligible.
The majority of people using this would be using smaller gun models that take less screen real estate as things like dire promise get more use than things like jack queen king because of its model size (a major reason Omolon HCs have been neglected since D1 even when meta)
My biggest problem with destiny 2 at the moment boils down to a question, why. Why am I grinding weapon drops, why am I trying to get max light. It's like we are back in year 1 of d2 but somehow it feels worse. I've got no goal what am I grinding for this season a harder nightfall? I miss heroic raids they were that last challenge, that last mountain to climb. Something to show my growth and hard work.
Here's what I think Bungie should do with the current releasing style. The first dlc (the shadowkeeps and forsakens) give us a raid, 2nd dlc give us a dungeon. The 3rd dlc heroic raid and heroic dungeon. And also give us Nightfalls that actually change things up like heroic raids not the artificial difficulty fuster cluck that we have now. And for the people that are like "oh it's to hard I can't do it" here's what I say, to fucking bad everything is not for everyone.
Destiny is starting to feel like runescape, just a stat grind. We arent dumb kids we are Guardians damn it, its time we are treated as such.
“you can still use them in most regular pve activities”
yeah because we always keep our weapons for 750 strikes in loadout
My weapon memories by year (Xbox):
Destiny 1
Year 1: The messenger
Year 2: 1000- yard stare
Year 3: Chaos Dogma
Destiny 2
Year 1: Mannanan
Year 2: Whisper of the worm
Year 3 (in progress): Sacred Provenance
See, me personally, I would love a hard reset at this point... it’s why I’m clinging onto the idea of D3 because I feel as though there’s nothing to grind for anymore due to the fact that increasing our power doesn’t have any effect of anything. We’re chasing power for no reason!
Cooper Van Bruchem Yeah I agree, also there are some perks in D2 that I feel completely ruin the chances for others that need to be completely deleted. I don’t think people will be happy if Bungie deletes kill clip, rampage, and other damage boosting perks in D2 because everyone has become too used to everything having it, so a hard reset where these perks are deleted would be great. In D1 we didn’t really have any perks on legendaries that just ramped the damage up, rather we had some that made explosions or generated more ammo into the magazine or just helped base stats of our weapon. I’m using DIM to look through all my D1 items and almost all the perks on them were utility perks boosting range or stability further, or explosive rounds/firefly/triple tap etc. Nothing straight up just gave me more damage like rampage or kill clip.
@@smoltoaster Crowd Control existed, but it was basically a proto-Rampage with only one stack. IIRC it was also a lot rarer to find, but my memory may be rusty.
SundownMarkTwo Yeah, there were very few damage based perks put on legendaries and they were not nearly as potent as rampage or kill clip. Firefly was like, the best perk for a while on legendaries which is odd to see as firefly is completely ignored in D2.
@@SundownMarkTwo I believe the other one was reactive reload which is basically kill clip I can't think of any other ones
Genny Manun Yup. The perks were very rarely distributed though. I hardly ever saw reactive reload. A few shotguns I know had crowd control. I cant think of very much though. Weapon diversity was pretty decent in D1 because there wasn’t a single best perk set for most weapons. There were a few that stood out but it was fine because they were Raid weapons or just very good weapons that got retired eventually.
Well, if damaging perks are the carrot, then one solution is to dangle the carrot differently. Bungie has started to do this with perks like Trench Barrel (melee hits make shotguns do more dmg temporarily). If they come up with more creative yet natural-feeling conditions for triggering dmg bonuses (ex. slide kills grant a fire rate and reload speed buff), that's an avenue for spicier pve perk development.
I miss my faction weapons, at least from D1 because I was not the most active during the early faction rallies of D2.
I wouldn't mind vendor weapons...
I loved how the skeleton key worked in Destiny 1 year 3 because it gave the strikes more life, in a way. Me and my friend would always try to get a good Imago Loop and I would like to see something like the skeleton key system return for strikes because it makes the strikes seem more fun. If not for strikes, it would entice people into playing higher difficulty Nightfall Ordeals.
Sunset has ben sunset for good
God: *coronavirus*
Datto: *weapon retirement*
With games like destiny the audience will never be fully pleased because everyone wants amazing loot but everyone also wants it to be extremely rare so they feel special for having it. It doesn’t make it a bad game, it just makes Bungie have to decide whether to actually make loot rare, and make a lot of their fan base disappointed because they can’t actually get the loot, or they could make the good loot less rare, and people will eventually lose the drive to get that new loot because everyone already has it. It’s an impossible problem
For me:
Y1 - Sweet Business
Y2 - Thunderlord
Y3 - Monte Carlo
For me
Y1: Borealis
Y2: Breakneck
(A pinnacle, so what? I died in gambit for it and never took it off even though I got recluse afterward.)
Y3: One Thousand Voices
(Yes I got it in Y3 got a problem?)
I remember in D1 they did delete weapons. They deleted a butt ton of blues, greens and basic weapons. I don’t think they deleted any legendaries but they did do the weapon retirement thing for the entire first year. To this day I still have the very first legendary I ever got in Destiny history. It was Proxima Centuri II (you TRUE vets would remember). But not just weapons, but anything from Y1. Then they brought back only popular weapons, and they made all the year 1 armor come from eververse packages that you could buy for silver dust. Then infuse that armor (which dropped at 5 light) up to max level which was 400. Damn those were the days
I wouldn’t mind them doing all of this stuff, if they charged less for the dlc. They’re trying to convince me to pay $70, for three seasons of shitty loot and losing several planets and raids.
Contest mod takes activities out of the range of the vast majority of players. Something like prestige Leviathan where enemies hit a bit harder and are a little tankier but also come with new mechanics is much more engaging and rewarding than arbitrary tankiness
Weapons retirement is a NECESSITY, i am a 100% on board with Bungie on starting to grind BRAND NEW WEAPONS. Seriously, how much longer do you guys plan on using recluse/Mountain Top/Grenade launcher por PVE; and Spare Rations/Mindbenders/Coil for PVP?
I said it when I started D2 and I'll continue to say it; damage-increasing perks broke the game
Agreed
Guns being weaker than d1 overall combined with damage perks broke the game
>Remember when we all got recluse and didn't use anything after we got it?
You mean... exactly like gjallarhorn, which you seem to be a huge fan of?
hey bungie free tip, add perk that adds elemental aoe. void spash / arc chain / solar flare. To really spice things up, make perk available for any gun in the game. imagine a void/arc auto rifle. that would be something
What Datto mentioned at the end of the video really hit home for me; I want to feel like I EARNED my reward. D2 is riddled with quests that simply just gift you a powerful weapon on a plate, mostly doing activities that don’t really require any real skill, being mostly “Collect X amount of Y item by killing Z enemy/Go to X Location and collect Y item” etc. While it makes it easier for casual players, it really eliminates what made D1 so special for me - completing something HARD to get something GOOD. I want that satisfaction with getting loot again, I want the feeling of when I finally got the Vex from Hard VoG after being stuck at the spires for what felt like an eternity, I want exotics to be RNG and rare, like when I finally got the Gjallahorn from Crota since playing from just after Launch. Destiny just isn’t the same anymore, I used to look at other Guardians in D1 and be impressed at what I saw, thinking “wow, he has X weapon so he must be good” Now I just feel like “Wow he has X weapon, so he must’ve played 4 hours of strikes to get it”, Loot satisfaction has killed the game for me :(
Give the new seasonal weapons from the activities (sundial, vex offensive weapons in their respective seasons) have a seasonal perk slot for a good perk, and when the season finishes you get a random perk
if weapon retirement comes really so out, i stop for sure. I for myself use different weapons, love that and i dont get bored. But of course i have also my lovely weapon loadout, for example i love my redrix pulse rifle. even if its not meta, i like to play it and take it even to hard activitys.
I see no way in grinding for something, that cant be infunded and never be used in any hard activity again ( whats the point to get it even with a god roll, when i got only fun for few months? )
sry for wall of text ;( love u datto ♥♥♥
Because you will have new weapons with cool new perks to chase for endgame activities. I think people overlook how great TTK was for Destiny, everyone started fresh and some of the best times I had in Destiny was trying out all the new weapons and figuring out what to take into the raid.
Lewis Palmer It’s not going to be just one reset. Unlike D1Y1 and D1Y2, weapon resets will happen more than once a DLC. That’s the problem.
@@NotARangerBoy it will happen once a year
@@lewis4402 The issue is that i heavily doubt that the bunglords will innovate in any substantial way. In fact I purely see it as a way to reskin and rehash loot. "Yay a 140 rpm raid hand cannon that drops with rampage, kill clip, and drop mag... so innovative". Secondly even if weapons are retired, there will be one that fills the exact same niche, potentially even better. Look at breachlight for example. That thing hits like a truck and it can easily fill the hole left by recluse's nerf in pve, or TLW nerf in pvp. The bottom line is I doubt if anything will change implementing this system, but if it is implemented it wont be my problem anymore.
@@ubisuccle This was literally mentioned in the video, and I share the same sentiment as Datto on this matter. If it gets implemented and you leave because of it then you clearly dont want Destiny to be a looter shooter, in fact, what are you playing Destiny for exactly? Wheres the fun in getting a weapon, then having nothing to chase for eternity? I have a complete disinterest in all the loot in the game right now because I have my mt, recluse etc. Give me new stuff to hunt, make raid weapons unique, IF they do this properly it will be great for the game.
At the end of the day, you sound like someone that's earnestly confused that there's a huge range of people that play this game a lot, but for reasons different from him.
Like, hearing him talk about his memories of Hawkmoon, it sounds like he doesn't understand why people aren't okay with just the memories of when your old favorite was playable.
That he doesn't understand why people play like hardcore players when they don't have the same motivations as himself.
That they should learn to live with Bungie being unable to both adequately encourage great end-game experience for him and a play-your-way experience for everyone else.
Like, I agree that a version of weapon retirement needs to be in the game. But at the end of the day, Datto's perspective sounds very much like "These people play Destiny wrong."
are you proud of being a keyboard warrior
you feel good now
@James Moriarty stay inside, wash your hands, and i pray you and your family are safe from the pandemic going about.
i hope you have a good life.
but also, next time you want to make a point that ends with "you fucking idiot,"
please do everyone a favor and walk away.
take a deep breath.
and look in the mirror.
you're spending your time criticizing the perceived IQ of someone in the TH-cam Comment Section of a video game blogger.
get your life together.
Dude, I'm with you on this one. Not wanting \ needing new weapons ever again because you got the best possible roll 2 years ago makes for stale gameplay. Bungie needs to introduce "forced balance" in terms of perks and "power" or they'll end up with another Reckoning.
However, I'm in a different camp of why I don't want my old guns to not be top tier anymore. Looks and feel.
I love Austringer. How it looks, how it sounds and how it feels. As soon as it came out I went for it and for a long time I had a shit roll on it, but I used it anyway because I loved the feel of the weapon. It was max power and I used it in every single activity I played.
I'm someone who thinks the best weapon design in Destiny is still the D1 vanilla design and nothing Bungie has done since has made me reconsider this stance. Vision of Confluence, Saterienne Rapier, Badger CCL are the best looking and sounding weapons Bungie has ever made, in my opinion. The sights, their sound, their look, their reload animations. Those weapons embody what playing Destiny is for me. And it's not just scouts either. The ARs, the pulses, the snipers, the HCs, shotguns and fusions from vanilla D1 are still the best in terms of design in my opinion.
And sadly, ever since D2 came out I haven't found a "perfect scout rifle" and probably never will. The Nameless Midnight might have been and still may be the best in terms of utility, but it looks and sounds like shit, to be honest. I hate using it.
So I went with the next best thing, a hand cannon that looks like the Hawkmoon.
To me all the guns in D2 look and sound more like "cheap plastic toys in space" than actual weapons. Not to mention that Bungie seems very reluctant or outright refuses to make a good kinetic mid-impact scout rifle with decent stability and good perks. The Crown of Sorrows scout is the best in terms of style, but it's energy and it's high impact, so yeah... No thanks, that's not what I want. If it was kinetic, had the same archetype as Nameless Midnight and had even somewhat decent perks I'd never put it down. As long as it could be max power, I'd settle for subpar perks.
So in the end, I'd rather they change the perks of my guns every so often than to make me use different guns entirely. But that's just me, other people are welcome to disagree with me.
If Bungie's gonna keep removing the ability to get past season weapons, retirement is a must. I'm a little worried about the weapons and mods that you can only get through Sundial runs for example, because you know, Sundial never existed it seems. My worst nightmare would be if some Breachlight with specific set of perks all of a sudden became the PvP meta and all of a sudden you have this tiny % that is literal gods in Crucible and there's nothing you can do about it. And also, it's fun to get loot so weapon retirement would be real nice, but I think it would also have this opposite effect like "why even bother getting a godroll on weapon X as it will be obsolete in 3 months". I think a good way to combat this would be to keep the weapons, but make them even more perks dependent. Let people keep their absolute favorite weapon and have them grind (and earn) their power.
What Bungie did with exotic bounties in D1 was the absolute best, the ones that didn't force you into a raid nor into the Crucible, it was just a long hard & grind that in the end, whether the weapon was bad or not, made it feel worth it, and to me at least it felt really good.
In year 1 of D1 the gun for my was Invective not only one of the first exotic specials I got but also the first weapon that I went yes, this is what I like.
I am of the opinion that a system similar to warframe's weapon mods would be a good compromise in Destiny. You can keep your guns, but you have to earn the mods for them (or re-earn them). Get rid of the power system and make leveling weapon mods the grind. And get rid of blues.
I think the argument I've heard most is "If I have to farm a gun and then the next year its gonna be gone, its going to be useless". So it's not going to be useful for that whole YEAR of content? I agree that having to farm the exact same weapon is annoying and in an ideal world we'd have new pieces to farm and I'm hoping they make the raid weapons the best which would give me an incentive to play the damn things.
The biggest problems I have with weapons in this game are:
No difference between pinnacle gear and normal loot
Boring/bad perks that have never been good and just exist for what it feels is extending the grind for weapons
Lack of curated/fixed roll weapons, specially from pinnacle activities. Just imagine if in D1, to get Fatebringer, not only you had to do the raid and get the drop but also to get the correct perks withing a pool of which only 2-3 are even decent.
Re-skins, dont think anyone cant understand my problem with this. Even more agregious when they are within the same archetype and can roll the same perks.
Weaker exotics (I remember in D1 PVP the Suros meta, the Thorn LW and Hawkmoon meta... towards the end of D1 and all of D2 the meta just happens to be whatever weapon can roll x perks).
Could say more but dont have time and is not like I expect this to be read anyways.
I would happily take weapon retirement if we could go back to fixed weapon rolls. As it stands, for casual players, either they need to cull some of the trash weapon perks or remove the good ones, because I hate feeling like I'm contributing significantly less than my friends if I'm using a weapon with an ostensibly terrible roll.
if they did that it would kill the game
Honestly I think we already have a way for interesting builds to happen that arent just "do more damage" and "reload faster". We have exotic perks like you mentioned. But those interesting perks arent COMPLETELY bonkers, they're usually just "hey that's pretty neat". So what if for one short season... we could equip more than one exotic. Maybe limit it to specific crucible or pve playlists, but that would CERTAINLY make my Exotics actually feel more worth while and get tons of people back into theory crafting more builds. Would there inevitably be brokenly strong stuff? Yeah. But that's already the case right now, this game is really quite broken in many ways all the time.
Put nearly 100 hours into season of the undying catching up from my big break. farmed recluse, izinagis, some other good guns. Next season the best guns were... recluse, Izinagis and I could get a cool new sidearm... yay? Do the normal MMO route. New content = more powerful guns = I want them = I play.
I am worried that my favorite weapons will not be usable any more, and I won't like the new ones. I would be less worried if new weapons related to past seasons would replace the ones being retired. In my case, for instance, I like the Black Armory gear a lot, and would be fine with the weapons being replaced with newer Black Armory weapons. For me, the aesthetics and "cool factor" are still part of why I like loot.
I cant really care about the weapons and weapon retirement (take my hard earned recluse if you want to bungie whatever) the biggest problem in destiny for me is that THERE'S LITERALLY NOTHING NEW TO DO. Everything is either recycled content from previous seasons or concepts from destiny 1 (trials / dumb as fuck menagerie public events). No new raid. And simply same stuff but harder. Why would i grind for new weapons if everything new in the game feels the same. Why would i grind for 60+ exotics when there's no reason to. I cant speak for anyone else but i am ready to move the fuck on from destiny (to be fair ive prolly played 900+ hours over the years maybe its just burnout talking). There's new games coming with actual new stuff and i'm having a hard time seeing why i would keep playing destiny.
No you are right. It's lost sectors 2.0 and public events/escalation protocol 8.0 this season..
Same. I just kept working for a tataras gaze cause I like the name. Once I got it, logged off and haven't had a reason to get back on
You are 100% right. The game never EVOLVES. They keep making changes but the game is always the same. Now they want to push this "more of the same" to a new level.
If the seasonnal stuff have a light bonus of 10 during the given season, it'll help you in early season or for high level activities and give us a reason to look for it. As the season goes and your level increase, you'll be able to use whatever you want.
i dont see the big deal with "your favorite guns" not being usable in master level content. you dont use them there anyway. you use what's considered meta. you use what the lfg raid team wants you to use
"Your favorite gun" translates to "the meta gun" for a lot of people.
D1 was always this way. I'm sure some people didn't like that. Then in year 3 they let you get new versions of some retired stuff. At least once a year we should retire weapons. If not twice.
No. I have a lot of guns. Not all of them are meta. This will enforce a meta, not act against one.
@@arsarma1808 I have a lot of guns too. Lots. Tons of rolls mostly masterworked. Lots of armor too. Do I use any of it? Lmao no because none of them will outperform the like 5 weapons and like 2 or 3 armor sets I use.
Makes a lot of sense. It's interesting that this season's weapons have no damage boosting perks. But that warmind cell damage is much stronger than kill clip and honestly a refreshing experience. Hopefully there are things like this in the futurem
Weapon retirement is good. Bungie is afraid to lose the casual player base and it's understandable. However the game just throws loot at u and last season was embarrassing. Guess everyone needs a fucking participation gold plated platinum trophy.
Although u will get flamed for this video which I am sure u fully expect. Don't let that bother u. Keep it up.
Anabil Ahmed some do have damage perks. The hand cannon can roll multi kill clip. Pair that with ambitious assassin (Or pair AA with feeding frenzy.) and it being a 180 makes more sense.
I miss the grindy days of D1. but in D1 the grind wasn't "hey do a bunch of easy tedious things that just take a while and aren't hard" like it is in D2. I loved doing the Outbreak prime quest line and how long it tok, and how elaborate it was, and how only a certain percentage of the D1 population got it because of how involved it was. I remember soloing the final step of Touch of Malice where you killed the wizard on Phobos and it took me SO LONG and was SO FRUSTRATING. but when I did it it felt rewarding. In D2 I don't have moments like that anymore. Also I really don't mind grinding the game for new gear, I enjoy trying out new guns and loadouts each season; it gives me something to do.
Hey datto, plz notice this comment, we need trials in D1. I never play D2 anymore and I can’t participate In trials. Anyway me and a couple of friends really want trials back and many others do too but we need you to say something to deej about it bc your a really big part in Destiny please say something if this comment get 1k likes to deej
recently came back to the game and i think weapon retirement is a great step to make loot exciting again. i agree with i think pretty much everything you mentioned and would love for bungie to really dig out the old systems that have their hands tied behind their backs and rework them. People will never be satisfied no matter how much you give and how much of the soul of this game you sacrifice to try to make people happy they will always demand more for less. its a problem that extends beyond just destiny or games in general. the only way to fix destiny and loot is to make the few upset/cry to create and revitalize the loot in this game. i wish grinding meant something again. You used to see someone in your fireteam with some awesome gun thats really good and be like wow look what he's got. i want that again. Personally (as an absolute pvp potato) the only thing i really wish bungie would stop doing in grinds is quests that reverse your progress for death in pvp. i dont mind grinding pvp for weapons and if im bad it takes longer, thats fine. but being punished with backwards progress for being bad in pvp feels really bad.
If this video has convinced me of anything (well, two things...) it's that yes, weapon retirement may very well be necessary but also that we need to cycle out damage boosting perks. In D1, we very rarely got perks on our guns that increased damage directly as often as Rampage, Kill Clip, Swash, etc. do.
When I look at my D1 weapons in DIM, I see my Hung Jury from year 2, a Steel Oracle with Clown Cartridge and Tripod, Her Fury with Grenadier and Hidden Hand. Notice a trend here? No damage increasing perks, yet these were all considered God Rolls and were not the only weapons that could roll with those combinations. I have a Crytic Dragon that has Triple Tap and Firefly, same as my HJ. I have an LDR with Army of One and Hidden Hand, all but the same as Her Fury. Some stats are different, the guns come from different eras, but they all have the same thing in common, again, no damage increasing perks, yet they're still God Rolls.
In conclusion, I think it's time Bungie not only retired guns, but also the perks that have made Power Creep possible as a result of their existence as "must-have" on any decent gun no matter it's stats. The game would be a hell of a lot more enjoyable if we didn't have to depend on these crutches to have a good time. It worked in D1 and we never really had this issue, why can't it work now?
hit the nail on the head with community wanting more loot for less effort. sums up the newer generations
Just want to point out- he did a 1030 nightfall and got handed some blues at the end. RIP.
datto i like your video. it's a good video.
I do want to ask -- is there a point where Bungie considers separating gun frames/statistics from gun perks entirely? Imagining a world where you have to find or create "perk mods", in addition to finding guns. So when I find a parcel of stardust with good stats but I don't really care for the perks, I could just disassemble it and go hunting for the materials to make better perks to mod the weapon with. The methods for achieving these things can be very different (or similar), and breaking the loot system down into smaller pieces makes it easier to make each piece reasonably attainable without sacrificing the power of, or the emotional attachment to, the final product.
You could make it so that certain weapon frames can only be infused to a certain light level (frames retire), or that certain perks stop working when the weapon is infused too far (perks retire), or both.
I think it'd be good to step away from raw randomness being the way that bungie extends aspirations. Right now, getting good guns is hard because it is random and you have to just try a bunch of times. I would rather it be hard because there are a LOT of steps towards creating an optimized weapon, but I can at least form a plan around roughly how much effort it'll take to find or earn the materials needed to get there.
Ok but hear me out, if perks just had downsides then the hardcore fans can minmax to there hearts content and the casuals can just focus a couple stats and feel those stats with their hands (sense you feel connected to your gun because your controller physically vibrates “like a gun”) then exotics can keep the wacky effects uniqueness kinda maintaining the power fantasy
Decent argument. But to work, they need to make sure things like Raid guns have really desirable perks OR Raid perks like in D1. For the latter to be desirable you need a hard mode Raid to be working towards. Some lessons from D1 might be worth looking at.
Why not add negatives to damage perks? Like "When rampage is active the user has decreased target acquisition and accuracy" or something like that
I'm never putting my Pribina-D down!
*N E V E R*
And you shouldn't have to. You should be allowed to use what ever weapon you wish at any time
@@braxusthebold that's a bit ridiculous literally every other looter shooter or mmo makes u re grind rolls
@@110000116699 Which games?
gravendoom75 Borderlands 2 had this where people were grinding for weapons with the most optimal parts and now Borderlands 3 where people are grinding for optimal anointed perks for their class or build.
Two thing I look when it comes to loot :
1) it looks cool
2) fits my playstyle
So this won't really bother me...
(I'm pretty sure that I'm a different breed)
They would not have to retire weapons if Bungie did their own version of anointment weapons like in Borderlands especially if Bungie wants to push out build making on top of mods, perks, and stats. Could be cool to get an exotic weapon to drop and it has an anointment that benefits gunslinger hunter or something. Anointments could even make looking at blues worth keeping an eye for....it would make the game more interesting. They would not even have to make as much new loot as well since we could get so many variants of the same weapons or armors.
"You don't need to grind for perfect rolls"
Yeah, tell that to LFG groups...
I Hve never found a single group having a requirement of must have God rolled spare ration stop making stuff up
Demolitionist is actually kind of a reload perk, considering the mag refill when using nade. It’s just slower than other reload perks, like Outlaw and Feeding Frenzy.
I’m fine with weapon retirement, so long as bungie retires perk combo possibilities like triple tap and hip fire grip on a sniper. Oh and retire air assault forever.
People seem to forget the dozens of other looter shooters that DON'T have weapon sunsetting. Why can Warframe get by without sunsetting? Why can Borderlands get by without sunsetting? Why can The Division get by without sunsetting? Why can Remnant get by without sunsetting? What makes Destiny different that it has to take this drastic approach when no other games in the genre do that? People say 'oh well what choice does Bungie have? this is the only solution!' when I'm here using weapons that are older than Destiny 2 from other games.
Datto: "Destiny can't keep pumping out uninteresting loot, they need to incentivise players to get the loot from the newer activties insted of keeping their old stuff, be it through removing the most aggregious ones or introducing more powerful alternatives"
Bungie: "we've now introduced weapon and Mod combos that created build diversity and new competetive non dmg-Perks, some of which are only on raid weapons, but unfortunately we've only made 30 unique ones"
Average watcher: "Only 30?👁️👄👁️ OMG ,this👏 video 👏did👏 not👏 age👏 well👏"
I’m going to hate saying goodbye to my guns, loot, and armor but I understand why I’m probably a hoarder or I’m just like fucking andy from toy story
Im not retiring my randy’s datto leave it ALONE, you took my baby recluse but i wont let go of randy’s
Here's a disadvantage no one really talks about: it decreases the value of the DLCs. Imagine a player who joins the game in november 2020 and buys Forsaken or Shadowkeep only to find out that ALL the dlc specific gear (except exotics) is worthless. I bought Shadowkeep two days ago and I just realised this. The "lectern of enchantment" is a thing that gives mini quests and pursuits for gear that's going to be trash by the next season.
Yeah but you could say that about people who bought the base game now, the reason that’s not brought up is because without those dlc’s you can’t do certain activities, get certain exotics, and play certain raids
that is called do research b4 buying i didn't buy shadowkeep cus it offers nothing i want just got new season so your argument is just you not taking any effort to research into the game you buying and in fact it is actually a positive reason for sunsetting means new players 1 don't have to spend money on old content and new players don't have to feel like they will never be as strong as old player cus they can no longer acquire op weapons from tht old content.
p.s. no body talks about that disadvantage cus 1 it not a disadvantage and 2 you might be the only one who didn't do a 30s google search to see the pros or cons of buying an expansion especially if the idea of sunsetting was the one thing to influence your decision
@@gringgles2633 okay so this in your opinion caters to new players. AGAIN. Catering to casual and new players really helped destiny during year 1
@@aaronforsyth3486 its called balance you have to keep a game fresh ie they have the hard content and things like pinnacle gear that just playing casual becomes really difficult to acquire and if there is nothing new to obtain old players ( like non streamers people who don't make a living playing destiny 2) will eventually get bored if there is no reason to complete the content and they will go play another game and might not return. (ffs datto himself is looking into new games to play atm because of the expansion delay) and if your game only loses players and isn't appealing to newer players then your game dies . take monster hnter world for example when the iceborn expansion released they realised any new players that didn't ply b4 would want to do the iceborn content asap and join maybe the friend that played b4 so what they did is released a gear set and weapons with weighted stats that upgrade with generic monster materials so it would be really ez to upgrade as you whent thru base worlds story missions and you would be a comprable power to start iceborn without needing to do the hours of grinding top high level content to achive saem level og gear also al that old ger because of the new rank of difficult for old players became useless and had to be replace but nobody complaied cus that gave them a reason to hunt the new monsters for the new loot. imagine if mhw was like bungie and the first set you got was relaly good and throught the entire game you could just upgrade it to max power why would you bother fighting all the hard monsters? or if all the best gear was from world and not iceborn monsters why would make new players not want to play cus they would have to go farm gear just to farm old content that not a lot of old players would be farming. like i agree that catering ONLY to casuals is bad and that is why i think they should have better loot in the raids. if you play casually or are so socially inept to get in a group of 6 and beat a raid then you don't deserve the best gear. but there has to be a balance. and sun-setting brings that balance. idk it must just be because i play destiny cus it an rpg not cus it an fps that i have played rpgs forever and i find using the same 3-5 weapons over and over for ever reeeeeealy boring.
@@gringgles2633 im sorry you might have made some good points but I'm not reading that
"Your honestly out of control and I love it. Hit me."
Datto who said you could record us during that?
seriously though, damn daddo
*you’re
@@betmynamespookedyou4665 Auto correct failed me, it usually does...
Saucy
@@betmynamespookedyou4665 *You are
Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Powercreep on Destiny2. So let's get to taking out our guns out of vault, one by one. Rec-luse. From what I can gather it commands the Energy slots from Legendary Perks outside of Kinetic Mountain Top. It's well protected, but with the right dev team, we can punch through those vault spaces, take this beast out, and break their grip on Meta.
-the j3z 2020
Did anyone else read this in Zavala’s voice? Valus Ta’aurc anyone?
*lands on Mars*
Man this is fucking great
Ah, recluse is fine imo. I'm more worried about hard light and revoker on trials rn on console. Recluse is all I have to combat the no-recoil hard light on console.
Prestige Leviathan could literally have just put elements on the kinetics and people would have swarmed. To be fair, they could have given all Leviathan weapons "does more damage to cabal" too
I think maybe in year 1 this wouldve worked, but now? No way.
maybe but its still a damage perk and i feel bungie wants to move away from this
@@mrpotatoslayer2198 Curious, but how is an element a damage perk? That only functions when singes are active..and is very niche compared to current damage perks.
If you want kinetics with elements, get one with Osmosis. Problem solved.
Ngl I never thought abt that, and ur honestly right tho, bungie doesn't think sometimes and they need to listen to more ppl like unwith gud ideas lol
>Be me coming back to this video in beyond light.
>OOF
I just came back after there most recent TWAB. Sunsetting is looking worse than we ever imagined.
@@kingodin5461 lol it's fine now. Don't be do dramatic
@@kingodin5461 It certainly has not aged well.
"What the hell Bungie, took me 87 years to get Recluse and now you're nerfing it, this game sucks, big fan though, love the game, still gonna play it."
- r/DestinyTheGame
Sanji nope, it’s 100% r/destinythegame
Sanji r/destinycirclejerk is just the more memed version of r/DestinyTheGame
Ahh yes, the salt lords themselves
the absolute worst place on the internet, absolute scumbags
This essentially makes it incredibly hard to read this damn community
“Datto talking for 26 minutes? More like operation Easy Listening”
Get off this line, Dookoo
Lmao excuse me? No
“My name is Datto and you’re listening to NPR”
@@lamecatgames7214 underrated reply
@@callmeshaggy5166 I was too late😔
datto's conclusion on weapon retirement: some people like it, some people don't
Some people like it because they are not seeing the future ramifications of this idea. Bungie does little to nothing as is. Like I've said in my post under this vid if weapon retirement happens they will not produce enough new weapons to matter. They make like what 24 a year tops rest are reskins. You will be just regrinding everything you already had and using inferior rolls. You will be stuck in gambit stuck in foundry trying to get vanguard weapons all over again for well nothing.
Bungie can not and will not deliver adequate content. Luke Smith thinks this is a short cut this actually makes even more work in the long run work they will not do.
@@joshjda well.. At this point bungie should be more concerned about the survival of the company and destiny franchise, than weapon retirement.
On thr path they're now, I'm not sure if y4 gona even be a thing.. And if it is, if they fk up again like they're doing now with SK and this empty y3 model, almost no one will come back.
To make the things worse, they don't have the f2p trumph card to play..
The game is in realy bad state now, after the last DC I'm not sure if the things gona change tbh! Even that Smith said they'll try to meet the middle ground..
At this point maybe the company should start thinking about switch head leaders, someone with fresh blood and new ideas because scarab lord atm is slowly destroying destiny.
As far as weapon retirement goes, if I Wana use a "turd" all the time I should use it. Manipulating the "turds" I use to create an artificial handicap or an artifical meta of 'turds" doesn't make any sense.. Make content, work and have passion for your freaking game! Be creative and try new things, stop thinking about making easy money, instead of making ppl enjoy your and loving your game!
If those fk heads do that, they gona get a lot of money..
My last thought about this video and this smurf! This guy is so full of bs that is almost disgusting tbh.. No to mention that this video looks more like a justification, than an analysis! Especialy after most ppl mix this guy bs with bungie doing bs.. Which I would be surprised tbh.
But hey.. While ppl keep listening to him, he's gona have power to be vocal and bungie will keep fucking up.
And don't get me wrong, some things he's right, but most things and critical things, he's not..
Just my 2 cents anyway..
Remember when Datto said "Theirs alot to do in Destiny and none of it matters"? He can apply that logic to this video
@@neoshell4941 Yep dude is totally full of shit. He's just mad that other streamers are making money off "his game". He wants to shut them out essentially. He is a sad selfish little nerd tbh.
joshjda what? Do you even read what you post? 😂😂😂
21:48 I think the TH-camrs have some kind of influence in what people want, that's why, I think, is reason grinding for best role possible and spending hours upon hours to find that role which that TH-camr uses.
Yup. It seems every time a TH-camr uploads a video titled "NEW META!", "GET THIS GUN NOW!", "THIS GUN MAY BE THE NEW META?!" or any time of iteration, the gun is literally fucking everywhere within a couple days for me
But in the end of the day it's the player that chooses what to go for. If players want to fall in line like sheep then that's their responsibility.
yeah its pretty obvious that's what's happening
*roll
Or ppl could just have a mind of their own for a change instead of going for what some asshole in bumfuck Egypt says is the best gun
With Datto’s new merch line, he’ll be the next one to retire soon, aside from Destiny’s weapons. 😏
Badum tss
I'm starting to click on your videos just to see how you're going stretch for a segue to guide us your shop. Well played.
Yes, but will you use them?
hes like the TH-camr LegalEagle, Finds the best segue's into his Sponsor/Merch.
To the interesting perk point: Demolitionist and Overflow. These are the types of perks I want to see more of.
Are they still reload perks? Yes. But they're different and provoke more nuance in how one wants to play.
As for the fact that you want to regrind the "same gun" again after retirement... Well, guess we'll just have to disagree.
I'd rather see Bungie push the niche archetypes more, flesh them out with more types and rebalance the sandbox (for heavies in particular) to make weapons all feel competitive. Will there still be metas? Yes. But at least if I choose to use shotgun, lightweight pulse, and a rocket launcher I won't feel completely useless.
Quinn Calvert me with nightshade ikelos shotgun and bellowing giant
@@TakeTheFalll Back in year one of destiny that would have been a god tier load out.
On top of weapon retirement, they should straight retire some perks and perk combinations. They definitely have introduced interesting builds and perks, like the warmind cells.
That's the type of perks bungie would put on a ritual weapon
Overflow i think is underrated. People want reload perks on weapons but somehow they don't want overflow. Take a look at Curated Spare Ratios for example, Overflow and explosive payload. I think literally what's wrong with that? But people are calling that the worst curated hand cannon. Is not like rapid hit and kill clip will make you the best player ever. And unless you are a sweating try hard god tier player or below average then I promise you won't notice much different between the two rolls in both PVE and PVP when you playing the game right.
tl;dw: Bungie has designed themselves into a corner
Bungie needs to make the game reward the hardcore, casuals play anything.
This comment is pretty missleading, they did it because people asked for more power for less work ex; nf requiers a long quest that ends with you in legend comp. recluse only requires you to reach fabled and the latter is the best gun in the game
Tume I here’s the thing there are more casuals then hardcore players so it becomes a situation where it’s like the needs of the many versus the needs of the few. People would just stop playing if all the good stuff is behind raids or whatever and those people can’t raid.
@@floppypilot4516 yeah but isn't that how looters supposed to work?
Makis rwssos Yeah and bungie is gonna have to make big changes to the loot if they want to see improvements like actually putting good loot behind hard activities and not caring what the less skilled people complain about
Also I dont mind a hard grind for weapons. However, if my hard grind for a weapon ends in it being retired, then that actually encourages me to no longer chance the best weapons, because I now know..they will only be good for a little while, and therefore not worth the grind.
Datto truly has played to much destiny, applying FOMO to his merch sales strategy.
10/10 would consider buying again.
After watching the video I am honestly curious what would come out of a debate between you and Cammycakes on this topic. Since you both give solid arguments and are on the opposing sides of the spectrum.
Also, about weapons being thrown at us so much, I suspect it is because of the retirement, Bungie wants us to get the weapons we desire early in their lifecycle. If they make things rare or not easy to farm people won't be able to get them in the 9 months they are relevant, thus just creating frustration and many upset people.
#TeamCammyCakes
Datto is a PvE content creator, Cammy is a PvP content creator. Weapon balance has usually worked completely differently in these different modes, so it is not a surprise that they approach the situation in a different way.
Another specific detail about Cammy is also that he purposefully tries using weird and "off-meta" loadouts constantly, since that is what he enjoys. Constantly utilizing those would become a lot harder with item retirement/resets.
@@Lexustio Well yea, and that's why I think it'd be interesting to see the opinions clash since they see it from such different angles.
And the weird and off meta loudouts are because he can think past revoker and hardlight, which sadly most of the community can't. Even more so in PvE, the way I see people asking for weapon retirement from a PvE side is just wanting to be forced to grind for new weapons. And that's the thing, it won't be all it's made out to be. No grinding for those cool new weapons revitalizing the game. It'll be grind out a good enough weapon with a reload and damage perk and then sit with it 9 to 12 months and complain how loot is boring again after a while.
Lexustio It really wouldn’t at all though??? He plays PvP and the only place where power matters is in Trials and in Iron Banner. He can goof off with off meta load-outs literally everywhere else in PvP with or without weapon retirement.
@@smoltoaster But Trials matters massively. It's the pinnacle of pvp. That's where you'd want your weapons to matter.
take for example he Forsaken Antiope-D. You can get that from the gunsmith. it took him 8 month to get the roll he wanted. Now with weapon retirement that'd be mean he spent 8 months of time trying to get it and then he may only use it for 1 month in trials and then he'd just have to abandon it.
well they talk about weapon retirements then literally make season mods that require that seasons weapons in order to use them
This would be pretty smart.