I'm a fellow philosopher currently writing a book on morality. It has a heavy emphasis on emotions, their purpose, and generally how to overcome our emotions and take proper actions. (It has a lot of overlap with stoicism, but uses more modern information such as evolutionary theory and modern psychology). Anyways I bring this up because for a while as I was being very mindful of the types of emotions elicited during particular songs. This happened because I noticed there was an emotion that certain songs elicited that I had trouble naming at first. I decided to dub the "feeling" resoluteness. It coincides with you topic today with "toughness". It is the emotion of feeling tough or powerful, able to take on cany challenge. In particular I noticed elicited by more groove based riffing. Riffs that are processive in nature such as in break downs. A lot of more modern extreme bands make heavy use of these type of riffs. I noticed Fleshgod Apocalypse using them a lot. My point to al this is I think the reason we might thing metal makes us tough is because it can elicit in us the very emotional state that drives us to act in a resolute manner. It's not that we are tough people therefore we listen to metal. It is that we like that metal makes us feel tough. There are plenty of tough people who don't need any emotional boost to feel resolute. To take this further, there are many other emotions elicited by metal. You mentioned metal being angry, and anger is one, but I think that is very superficial to only think of metal as angry. Thrash metal tends to be the most consistently angry. I think death metal tends elicit, anger, but also hate, resoluteness, and disgust. That disgust is harder for me to understand our relationship to in listening to it. It typically comes from the vocals and I think that is why so many people are turned off by death metal as it elicits disgust. I would also add my theory of two different types of listeners. There are those who do participatory listening where when listening to music they are as if they are part of it. On the other hand there are those who listen as an outside observer (I had a good term for this but forgot what it was). We can do one or the other and metal heads tend to be participatory listeners when listening to metal. Someone once told me they didn't like stuff like Slayer because it was like they were being yelled out. When I listen to slayer I am part of it. I'm yelling with Tom, not being yelled at by Tom. On the other hand, my disdain for styles like emo or pop punk comes from me being turned off by the whiney vocals is because I'm hearing the whining instead of doing the whining. I'll add another emotion to the list that metal elicits which is the emotion of awe. My favorite bands tend to have fantastic harmonies that elicit awe. Bands like Iron Maiden, Kreator, Arch Enemy are good examples of having very beautiful sections that elicit awe, but it is the ability to weave a song that elicits complex mixed emotions that I really appreciate from bands. Arch Enemy could do a song that elicits resoluteness, anger, awe all in a single song. It's one of the things I think that separates a good song from a great song is the complexity of emotions it can elicit. That and the ability to elicit the motions that convey the emotions the lyrics are trying to convey. Iced Earth does very well with that on their concept albums, especially stuff from The Dark Saga which blends sadness and sorrow with resoluteness and anger. The songs we find meaningful tend to connect with us on an emotional level. Generally I think we are drawn to particular music because a combination of factors with personality traits being one of the biggest factors. With that said though thrash metal and gangster rap both elicit anger, doom metal and country can both elicit sadness, but then there are cultural factors that play a role in what we connect with. Further our emotional state at any given time will determine what we are "in the mood for".
This is fantastic analysis. I think what you said about it's not necessarily tough guys listen to metal but we like metal because it makes us feel tough is 💯 spot on. The feeling of awe is also spot on. This is why we take genres like prog and do what metal does... Take it to the extreme and turn it into tech death. Please keep me up to date on the progress of your book. I'd be interested to read it. 🤘
I would tack on one more to the list- cathartic sorrow. There aren't a ton of them, but there have been a handful of metal songs that convey a mournful sense of loss and grief better than the most syrupy pop song could ever muster, due to the heartfelt intensity. "Constance," by Spiritbox springs to mind immediately. I'm a scruffy, jaded, 6'3 half-Swede, and I still find myself silently weeping every time I watch the music video. Particularly knowing what it was written about.
@@heavymetalphilosophy absolutely. I've been working on it off and on for probably a couple years now. A good chunk of it is done, but there are always aspects that I need a deeper understanding of before progressing. The basic idea I started with was trying to define morality from a secular view point. I don't think any philosophers have given a deep enough base for a moral frame work yet and I think it is something I have done to a better degree. If you don't have and underlying foundation to a moral philosophy then you often end up with contradictory principles. If instead you build a philosophy from the bottom up you have a moral framework which is more rational. I make the argument that there is objective morality based on certain criteria even if we don't always have the knowledge/wisdom to know what the moral action is. The book is intended to set a moral foundation and to be a guide to understanding how our emotions guide us to act. Virtue or vice is then the manner in which we act. Stoicism and my ideas are very much alike in the idea of acting rationally rather than emotional. I basically take stoicism a layer deeper trying to better delve into the innate emotional drives on which we act upon. Virtues are then overcoming the impulse to take negative actions and vice is either acting impulsively or foolishly. Much like stoicism there is a heavy emphasis on be wise and tempered in order to act virtuously. This is all tied into evolutionary theory with virtuous actions making our species more likely to survive and viceful action decreasing survivability. This is of course survivability of the species not just individuals other wise any form of altruism would only be a means to receive reciprocity rather than being a moral good on a deeper level.
@@Deletirium I almost mentioned grief, but grief specifically refers to sadness resulting from death/loss. Doom metal in general by my definition is either ominous such as with "Black Sabbath" which relates to fear, or sorrowful which applies to bands like Solitude Aeturnus. My list didn't cover every emotion, and I'm sure there is music that does. I think black metal tends to elicit fear with its use of desinence and certain chord progressions. If you are a black metal guy then you are the one doing the scaring. Of course there is DSBM which sometimes combines sadness and fear which makes sense if there is a fear of death but a lack of will to live.
@@Helicondrummer excellent. Sam Harris tried to tackle this topic awhile back but given some of his recent stances a lot of my admiration for him has waned and him having any authority on "morality" is suspect.
My personal experience is that a lot of metalheads are nerds me included. We dont just listen to the music. We analyze everything about the bands, production, riffs, vocals, lyrics etc. we live it.
I discovered metal some years back, and it really has helped me find more confidence and get in touch with a side of myself I didn’t know existed. Some people think it’s cringe, but I do feel tuff and badass listening to metal music, and now I almost get some weird satisfaction in listening to music that I know would sound really scary to the average person. It makes YOU feels scary lol, and maybe some people just need that to boost their self esteem. It just gets you into a state of mind that makes you feel like you do anything and conquer all your fears and achieve your goals
Were not metalheads to be toughguys. Were outcasts who found a brother/sister hood that accepts our strange personalities. People join UFC to be tough. Not become metalheads. When you go to a live show and the guy next to you puts his arm around your shoulder so you can headbang together. You knoe your with family. Cheers my fellow brothers and sisters, i love you all.
One of the toughest people I ever knew was my next door neighbour back when we owned a ranch. She was a little wisp of a skinny 75 year old lady who had purchased a plot of land, and hand-built her own working farm out of construction scraps and donations. She had out buildings, coops, corrals, and about 50 animals. Made a business out of selling goat cheese and bath products, and supported herself entirely without electricity- by choice. When we had a band of trespassing atv riders trashing our land, she was the only neighbour who unquestioningly grabbed a 12g, and immediately offered to help me run them off. When a bear broke in and killed all my chickens, she came and helped me clean up the heartbreaking mess, and said to call if I spotted it again, and we'd both take care of it. She raised 8 kids thru abject poverty and abusive husbands, and 7 of them grew up to be respected career military officers. THAT'S what tough is.
Metal isn't for everyone. I recently took a couple of friends to their first metal concert, Possessed, Kreator and Testament. They wanted to go for the experience and they both hated it. All three bands kicked ass and put on an incredible show. All they got out of it was "every song sounded the same", "too loud" and they hated the theatrics. Probably wasn't the best choice for their first metal concert.
@@heavymetalphilosophy I took my wife to see Metallica on the 72 seasons tour... I probably should have brought them along too but I think Pantera would have been too much for them..
@@jamess3532 I've seen Testament (headlining with Death Angel and Exodus) and Kreator (opening for Mercyful Fate) but I've not seen Possessed yet. Was supposed to, but then the pandemic hit.
Also a thing to consider: Most people don't give a shit about music. Metal often needs time to get into new stuff. Most people i know, just klick on random mainstream playlists on spotify or radio music. When metal ist in there, it is too complex for them or too aggressive, because it also needs some time to acclimate to this style of music. But yes. It's a very complex topic. I have too much to say about it to put it in a comment.
This is absolutely correct. For normies... Often music is just background sound or for the vibes. Metal fans are more passionate about the actual content.
Yes, was about to say something like this. Even when I was 12 and into Britney Spears etc I was super interested in everything, reading the cd booklets and so on. Music was never just something that I put on in the background.
Imma be honest metal has made me a huge fking softie who is generally blasting Archspire and Whitechapel. It is a way for me to channel my negative emotions in a healthy way and generally has resulted in my being a kinder, loving, and more understanding person. I'm not a "tough" guy by any means. In fact, if I didn't have band merch I think most people wouldn't even think I was a metalhead. I wholly agree with you that toughness comes from what you do, not what kind of art you consume. Anyway, just starting to get into your channel and loving the experience so far, and I hope you keep making this podcast for years to come! \m/
When I was in high school (late 80s/early 90s), metal was at its height of popularity, meaning nearly EVERYONE listened to it or referenced it in some way. This included football jocks, cheerleaders, and quiet nerdy types like myself. Right out of high school, metal fell out of favor. I joined the Marines, and some of the toughest dudes I knew didn't listen to metal; in fact, I was kind of the nerd because I followed metal in the underground (especially power and death metal). Fast forward to today, where everybody is hunched over their phones insulting each other for not living up to some abstract standard of masculinity. Pretty precious! Schopenhauer put it best: music is the closest thing we have to actual transcendence. For somebody like me who has gone through most of my life undiagnosed on the autism spectrum, metal has helped me negotiate a world that has been largely callous if not hostile, and I've made great friends along the way. That's all!
This is something I had been thinking of for a while. What I've concluded is that metal is actually a escape valve to one's own frustrations. If anything it is more of escapism rather than making us tougher to face the world and all its problems.
I personally believe that metal at its core has always been about processing these emotions in a healthy and productive manner. While some allow themselves to live the life that metal proclaims to be. The rest are just picking up on the dark reflections of society. And trying to process that information.
My dude. Im a semi retired "old head" with too much time on my hands, thus i watch a good amount of TH-cam on subjects like military history , crafting , DIY everything, cooking and of course my wide range of music that i adore. Youre easily my new favorite music guy. First off major props on farming, that is some hard ass work, been on that ride enough with relatives to know. Secondly, I really love ancient, medieval and modern military history, and ive always been fascinated with weaponry, so im somewhat of a firearms enthusiast, as much as my budget will allow, which isnt much, its nice to see some common ground. That said, i have three cousins that were/are firemen, two of which worked their way up from department of forestry summer jobs, to battalion chiefs of their oen departments. They are all lifelong avid hunters as well as being family men. They are some of the toughest dudes i know, but you wouldnt know it unless you knew them. My point is, they all love Country music, and dont even know who Pantera is. I myself love old 60's n 70's country, honky tonk and i adore Texas Swing, but i cannot tolerate anything country from the last several decades, it just makes me want to put my head into a wire wheel. Metal, hardcore punk, 77 punk, Oi!, Epic Trance, New Wave, Psychobilly, old school style hip hop, 70's glam, are my go to musics, mostly punk and metal though. Nile, Draconian, Amon Amarth are a few of my loves. Sorry for droning on here. My point is, my style of dress and shaved head might seem scary to most , but im humble and well mannered, im no tough guy. Ive worked as a roofer, paint factory, computer repair and retail, all my lofe experience at 59 years old has taught me the toughest folks are often the last you'll expect to be, thus you never really know and shouldnt judge on appearances or lifestyle. I know 1% MC folks that are pretty damn tough but are also the most humble dudes that i know. Anyways, Im no tough guy, nor do i aspire to be. My motto, be humble.be kind. be considerate. Peace.
Tough is how one takes what they have been dealt in life, and turn it to their growth, defiance, strength, self knowledge, and self mastery. If metal is the backing track one chooses for it, then hell yeah. If not... one can still be tough.
I have some bands to get me to a nice relaxed status and some bands to get me angry (for my workouts). I say it's not about being a bad guy or not, it's all about the love for metal and anyone can listen to it.
I’m 37, been listening to metal since I was a kid, so 20 plus years. I’ve always been the skinniest smallest dude, used to get made fun of for it a lot. There’s something about heavy music that always made me feel more powerful and resistant to peoples bullsh*t. Doesn’t make me “tough” by any means, but has definitely helped boost my confidence, and always makes me feel like a warrior lol
I try to remind myself all the time. It really only takes hanging out with my son to realize I haven't been cool for a long time 😆 Btw do you know what rizz is? I need to urban dictionary that one so I know wtf he just said to me.
Dude this riff of the week fucking sent me 😂 one of my favourite episodes you've done! I've often wondered about the metalhead superiority complex a lot of us (me included) have internalised, for seemingly no real reason. Apart from the "tough guy" trope though, I think it has a lot to do with the message of a lot of metal as you said, with the "I reject society's bullshit, and the state of everything etc", and we possibly judge those that don't, that don't feel that anger at the state of things. But that's just my 2c 🤷🏻♀️
But isn't that warranted? Is a prisoner that doesn't know they're imprisoned inferior than one that knows the game? But also iso the informed prisoner much more unhappy?
@@benh6452 I mean this is fair, and I agree 😅 but that is very much coming from the whole "they're just sheep that don't know better blah blah". Like sure, but are we any better for it? There's a lot of angry, messed up people in the scene (no judgement intended), and a lot of normies seem pretty happy
Hot damn….graphene level insights start to finish….metal as a zen-ish like mindset is much like being good at high level modern street skating….that doesn’t make you tough….being good at it IS tough…
Metal doesn't make you tough. WHAT YOU BEEN THROUGH AND WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH AND THE WILL TO FIGHT AND DUST YOURSELF OFF GET THE FUCK UP AND GO AGAIN. IT'S A MENTALITY.
To me it seems that the tough image is nothing more than just that. An image. It's more of a way to rebel or even to mask some people are actually insecure. A kind of armor or something.
@@theblurmetalhead There's dozens, if not over 100 channels with "stoic" as part of their name that use an AI voiceover for pseudo Alpha Male improvement content. It's a shortsighted alduteration of Stoic Philosophy.
One of the most liberating things that I have realised about music, is that no one needs to justify why they like the music they listen to. You certainly can, but an answer such as " this speaks to my soul" is perfectly acceptable.
Have watched a few of your videos now I’m very upset…..that I hadn’t found you sooner! You have gained a new subscriber. I myself have been guilty of calling others softies for listening to music that was “softer” than what I listen to. Years of self reflection and life experience helped me see how much of a clown that made me. I know a body builder who listens to basically nothing but R&B and Drake. Not exactly hardcore, but the dude himself? He’s an absolute beast. I on the other hand cannot get through Brother Bear without tearing up, and I enjoy listening to Portal. 😂😂😂
You knew I was going to chime in on this one, lol. So, being a teenager in the 80's listening to Metal, especially bands like Slayer,Venom Possessed etc... you were judged immediately because of the band shirts you wore to school. Someone would hear what you and a couple of friends were listening to and you were judged. So with that being said, it does make you develop a "Tough Skin". I always had to constantly defend myself from the "Normies" so I developed a thick skin to deal with the constant judgement and ridicule. Now, it's much easier to be a "Metal Head" 🤘
When I think about it, it's quite funny. I'm kind of a outsider at school, living in my little bubble listening to metal and frowning constantly, but when I arrive home and see my cat, I just sound like a little girl talking to him (almost 17 yo dude here btw). I don't really care how I look, but when I see a cat, I'm going to pet it and cuddle with it no matter how many patches with skulls and devil I have on my vest.
I'm not a fan of thrash, black and heavy metal (especially older stuff), but I do appreciate the dynamics of modern metalcore and progressive metal. Bands like Bad Omens, ERRA, The Safety Fire, Silent Planet and Periphery are definitely making metal an enjoyable experience for a wider audience. Besides that, blast beats and tremelo chugging is objectively unpleasant to listen to unless you associate it with some type of identity (Long hair, black clothes and tattoos)
I think many tough people can align themselves with metal for the external aspects of being heavy and the lyrical content, however merely listening to metal certainly doesn't make you tough. That's earned through the trials and tribulations of life and how you as a person deal with them. This feels inspired by a certain youtube Dawg who exists on the tough guy vibe... Also, your shot grouping was great. Keep training!
Well said! I'll say my main inspiration for this episode was all the "Oh you don't worship the Avatar of Kyle Rittenhouse? You must be voting for Kamala and be a snowflake" kinda bombardment my comment section got from the last episode. I do listen to death metal made after 1995 and a bit of twinkcore though 😏 With that said, my man obviously trains way harder than I do and I do listen to death metal made before 1995 as well so I don't want to be a hater. Thank you. For my novice level I was pretty happy with my performance. Good coaching is a cheat code. 🔫🤘🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy I'm definitely not pissing on the Dawg, he obviously trains hard and earns it. I think it's hard for people to understand two things can be true at the same time, like being tough and enjoying pop or being a metal head and being sensitive. People are far too complicated than that to be boxed in unless you allow yourself to be. I appreciate the recent posts on this. Also, how good are the solos on the latest Crown album? Dudes on fire!
My argument though, when I can get away with it, I find I feel less of the pain from hard work when playing metal and hard rock as I work. While pop has the opposite effect for me.
the whole "tough guy" thing was always wrong. Black Sabbath, literally the first Metal band, already had tracks like " Solitude", showing a more vulnerable side
Another good question is how does listening to extreme metal effect peoples emotions. Because music does effect emotions. Personally i've never even wondered if metal makes a person tough. It's like asking if listening to gangsta rap makes a person gangsta.
💯 and people don't think about how much of a factor luck is. You zig when you shoulda zagged or you didn't notice the other guy standing off to the side. Your opponent falls and hits his head on something awful. A ricochete. Shrapnel. Any number of things can and do go wrong.
I love metal because it's got meaning and a message (mostly) Metalartists seems to do it for the love of metal and expression. Pop-songs are mostly about love and popartists often doesn't seem to do it for the music, it seems they're in it for fame and money..
In my experience, most metal heads are softies. And I mean that in the most positive way possible. Kind and caring as a default BUT not taking any shit, and more importantly not accepting shit against others. 🖤 Being tough, in my opinion, is not about being strong, or doing difficult or dangerous things. It’s about how you deal with hardships; physical AND emotional. And I think listening to metal (and other ”dark” music) is a way to face, deal with, and accept your own dark emotions, making you a happier and more ”well adjusted” person. Or, a tougher person. 😊🤘
Well said. Now that's a method of connecting the music to toughness I can get behind. Metal gives artists a vehicle to express their Jungian shadow and for us to participate in that expression. This is one but definitely only one of many factors in developing our empathy towards others, recognizing that we all have some amount of that shadow within us. 🤘
So happy for the Josh Barnett shout out (love Immortal brown) as soon as you said bolt thrower haha. Carlos condit came out to rage against the machine, tool and Deftones. I remember thiago alves coming out to sepultura ratmattatathatta whatever it's called, super dope walk out song! I agree overall, most metalheads are skinny nerdy incel types OR meathead goofballs that just like to hit the skinny guys in mosh pits. However, I think the tough thing is because of first gender, most men want to at least think they are tough. Also, metal makes you, at times very angry and you will have fantasies of "being a tough guy". Working inpatient psych for over 15 years and being involved in almost a thousand violent interactions with psychotics, I must admit hearing in my head "dead by dawn" before a confrontation with the psycho meant a lot, but so did my BJJ training...
It's definitely our gender. You rarely see females behave like this. And you know I'm all for being tough. It's certainly a useful trait. Unfortunately, a lot of dudes out here are just looking for short cuts for masculinity.
Metal is for damaged ppl to help them cope with life's struggles. Some might learn to become tough through that, some might remain the softies they've always been.
People get whatever they are looking for in music. Sonics, resonances, pscyhoacoustics- all play a part into what people gravitate to. Music is mathematical in nature and transcends cultures. Artists express whatever struggles, loss, dreams and obscurities- which the listener may interpret any which way depending on ones mood. Brutal music can calm as well as serve as catharsis. Melodies can be interpreted as sad or happy or any other emotion someone may align. Some people have lived hard lives and use whatever sound to temper themselves. It all comes from within \m/
Anyone of any level of toughness can listen to any music. Plenty of toughness to be found within the metal scene for sure, but it doesn't have to be because we listen to metal, it can be for other reasons besides that for sure. It doesn't make us weak either of course, but that doesn't make it the thing that makes tough among us tough. Also not that it necessarily matters, but I wouldn't be surprised of some of those fighters that walk out to rap songs and stuff like that also listen to metal, but they probably also like other types of music, given how many people like different tyoes of music I'm sure many professional fighters are the same in that regard, it's also more palatable for the auidence if there's more rap and pop songs and for some who do listen to metal it won't always be their favorite genre, even if they do like it. Hope my rambling makes sense.
I've been around metalheads for 30 years. Metallers are not hard people. In general absolutely not. In fact, many people in the scene are pretty sensitive folk. There are a lot of people in Metal who have an angry and cantankerous way of carrying themselves with grievances, but these types are mostly the weakest of the bunch. In general, I don't think one's musical taste says a lot about their "toughness". In addition to that, the majority of "hard" people don't seem to have a particular receptivity to music. Bottom line, you shouldn't be concerning yourself about whether you're tough or not. Listen to your music and enjoy life.
Great point. There's a lot of people conflating that cantankerous presentation you pointed out with toughness. And they often conflate being a rude asshole with "telling it like it is".
Mental toughness is the true test. Someone can be physically strong, but it is the mental toughness that makes them physically tough. Without mental toughness, a physically strong person is merely a paper tiger. I was raised and still live in the Texas Panhandle. This area is known for raising cattle and drilling for oil and natural gas. The toughest people I have ever met are ranchers (including my uncle) and the guys that worked the rigs back in the day. The music they listen to isn't rock/metal but country. I am not, and never have been a fan of country music with one exception that I will get to. I was raised on Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Grand Funk Railroad, as well as southern rock bands like ZZ Top, Allman Brothers, and, of course, Skynyrd. Because my friends and I were big (I was the smallest at 6' tall) we were going to bars as soon as we could drive. Where did we go to dance and meet girls? We went to the country bars. I have been convinced since my teens that the best way to dance with a woman is two-stepping or waltzing to country music. Besides the attractive (and also tough) girls, those places were full of guys that we knew were tougher than nails. So we did the smart thing and made friends. I also realized that they liked country music for the same reason I liked rock - the music spoke to them on an emotional level. Old school country is just as emotional as the anger of metal (although not all metal is angry) and was very good at expressing world weariness, whether it be caused by relationships, bad luck or just the world in general.
Word. Everyone in this area is into country too. And today's country is particularly intolerable to my ears... But these folks are also the first ones to show up if my well is broken or I need someone with a tractor to move something for me.
@@heavymetalphilosophy Yes, "intolerable" is a great word for today's country. The old school country music of the 70s, when I was growing up, was infinitely better than what is out there today. That was the era of outlaw country and the few country artists I really enjoyed - Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, David Allan Coe, Jerry Jeff Walker and, of course, Johnny Cash. The 70s really was an amazing decade for music, the decade I went from age 9 to 19. The 80s weren't bad either - I discovered Motorhead and Iron Maiden and then came bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Slayer and the second best band from Texas, Pantera.
Metal is probably the most emotional kind of music there is. Personally I love it specifically BECAUSE it makes me feel stuff - which so happens is how I judge music in general. Does it make me feel shit? well then it's good art, that's what it's for 😂 The notion that metal is for tough guys is nonsense, I think a better description of its target audience is metal is music for outcaststs and misfits 😅
My mom doesnt have a deep list of metal bands she loves but my mom has attended many metal concerts with me. Ive seen cannibal corpse with her and many other heavy bands. She especially loves lamb of god.
Dear John, I think that all lovers of pathological interpretations of stoicism would benefit from reading "Mille Plateaux" by Deleuze and Guattari and something from Goffman. Am I too harsh and mean? Metal is not for everyone and it is very good that you are debunking the age-old myth of gatekeeping, which is thoughtlessly reproduced on the Internet. We live in a world of thought cripples from which it is difficult to break away and which greatly impoverish our discourse or make it pointless in some respects. Here you have discussed one of the many thought patterns that people tend to follow. Big bows.
@@heavymetalphilosophy Hahaha, True. I have an anecdote related to the group ZEAL & ARDOR. On September 1, 2024, they played in my city in Poland, in a club smaller than my house, full of records and books. The PROXIMA club was half full, but they gave it their all. They even prepared a special choreography parodying Catholic masses. Black metal, soul, blues and laternatine metal together are something that is not that successful in Europe, but I am a huge fan of them. Greetings from the homeland of Behemoth, Kat, Riverside, Decapitaded, Vader and Mgla. Outside of metal, I listen to a lot of things... including weird stuff like occult folk-punk Bridge City Sinners and satanic duo Twin Temple.
Metalica iron maiden are bigg especially Metalica, i ask a random old German grandma and she hade heard about Metalica, and they play them on the radio in my country
Nah man makes me chill I listen to alot of Death Metal likes of Devangelic typse of bands. I use it for work when I do my restaurant deliveries to the chefs lol.
@@heavymetalphilosophy yeah pretty much most of the chefs I deal with are pretty chill. Now when it comes to finding parking space to park the B truck good luck. Some people just don't know how read signs that says trucks loading and unloading only. That's a huge ticket in Portland... 1000 bux lol.
Although very rarely can someone who gets intimidated by metal can be tough. You don't need to be tough to listen to metal, but you're probably not tough if you fear metal. Tell this to Justin Horval.
Cradle of Filth.. "That's a band I'd take my girlfriend to go see" 🤘🏻 And that's a True story... and to add to it. We did go see Billy Idol and Weird Al, both shows were bad-ass.. we both have a wide range of interests. My first show was Slayer in '93. I've been to Pantera Maiden Venom Soulfly White Zombie Slipknot Manson Danzig Avenged Disturbed and many more. There's no show I've seen that my Wife wouln't have loved.. Machismo right? Metal's for tough guys. Sheeeeit. Nothing is more Metal than a cute puppy. 🤘🏻
I, for one, love the WOMEN of metal and the WOMEN who listen to them. And yeah, I can skin a deer and run a chainsaw and whatever. Doesnt make me tough, it makes me rural. Just listen to the new stuff from LOWEN, ESCUELA GRIND, GHOSTHEART NEBULA, SILHOUETTE, GEL, BERENICE, etc. I just wanna buy em all flowers, man! The BATMETAL outro cracked me up, btw.
Toughness is a trait that's influenced and measured by so many factors. Think about it, what the hell does a genre have to do with one's character and potential? People are silly and insecure.
Take a grab on Archspire and Benighted ... tough is for thoughtless, to be aware of your weekness is important and ofc don't be an asshole. Tough is everyone who doesnt surrenders to live. Metal does not - in my Opinion - makes us tough, it can make us feel tougher, yes, maybe. For some people, metal is maybe a reason to stay alive, for others its a more and more let's say "pop-theme". If you like "tough" shit, listen to the Bands I mentioned (subgenres). It's not tough liking them, it's just personal taste. Some love for the blastbeats, squeals etc. not a mayority or even a part of "our minority" has to like it, will probably never, I guess and it's not Swift(ish), obviously. Metal can make you tougher, if you think, when you listen to toughstuff, you'll become tougher. But in general, you might seem tougher, but you are not. Grow, be empathic, be nice to other human beings, listen to tech death, help an older person, some stuff like this might help to be tougher (tech death excluded). Experience in live, that made me tough, metal helped me to stay alive. And now for you: Starting to love your Videos, although I almost don't watch any TH-cam etc. content. Good Vibes ;)
Tough guy is unexpectedly in us if i get jumped in a mug me depending how it run into and blink of an eye ubwalk from there like that happened wow like all can say equalizer vibes all got to say
I don't listen to metal to be tough. I listen to metal the peel the crusty layers off my soul. Being tough is being thrown through the meat grinder and emerging on the other side to dust yourself off. Metal is wash afterward.
Im a rivethead first, black metal is my second love. I forgot about being tough because I've been busy preparing to live in the matrix and the inevitable downfall of society, where I'll Mad Max my way into the post-apocalyptic wasteland that comes after. 😂 Priorities, i guess😂
No..... Resilience comes from experience. Not telling yourself you're tough because you do this that or whatever.... because you believe this that or whatever. But we all know a shitload of metalheads, punx, and hardcore kids who think it does!
This is something I've thought about a lot in light of the last 8 to 10 years of world wide sociopolitics. It's becoming much more common again for people to adhere to these surface identities. If I'm "this" than that makes me "that". Such as "I like loud violent music that most people find intimidating therefore I must also be intimidating." Makes no sense.... but some people do seem to think this way lol. But reality is..... our own unique experiences make us who we are. Sadly....suffering, hardship, and consequence is what makes us "tough". There's no easy path to it, there's no guarantee we'll come out tougher on the other end after having these types of experiences. Furthermore..... it's important to self reflect and to keep ourselves in check. It's a dangerous path we end up on if we start to turn this concept into self inflation I guess.
@@heavymetalphilosophy And yes. I'm the deathcore and metalcore fan lololol. We're the least serious metalheads in the flock. Only Unique Leader bands believe themselves to be tough lol.
Ok, so, "tough"... I think there's an underlying "toughness" through all of heavy music-and it's almost always understood that the role it plays is NOT primary, with only a few exceptions (like that snowflake comment). I do think there are SOME bands that attract that more-primal aspect of toughness, like Pantera or Slayer...the rest of us see that, and we get it. It's cool, just, maybe, kinda silly. And there are other bands like Maiden that have a legacy of "toughness," but LOOK at them. Those dudes are fuckin' happy. But for me, if I look at what I LOVED the very first time I got a heavy album - For Those About to Rock....Even at that age, I felt "different" than the other kids, and this music felt "different," like, it was made for misfits. And if there's one thing a misfit loves, it's finding other misfits...this is counter-culture, and it makes the world a better place. There's a certain level of toughness misfits need to have-and need to express in healthy ways, and for us, it's gathering together to slam into each other for a couple of hours UNTIL SOMEONE DROPS THEIR PHONE OR FALLS DOWN, THEN WE ALL FUCKIN' STOP AND HELP OUR FRIEND, then go back to slamming into each other.
Well said. I love the bravado that runs through rock music generally and the extreme (like you said often silly) direction that metal takes it. I just don't want people to conflate that wholesome enjoyment with bullshit.
Ive been around for a while and theres two groups of people you dont wanna cross at shows and thats hardcore dudes and skinheads. The latter it doesnt matter the type really; some are worse than others. They come from the same musical origin and the violence is real. With that said of course metal heads certianly have more resolve and heart than your average person for normal adversities but if youre talking about fighting i never knew the thrash metal dudes for fighting. Im older now and fighting is stupid, unless its totally necessary and i have something for that anyway.
define tough .., I met some of the nicest folks who were dealt hard stuff man and they stuck it through , others fold .., listening to a genre of music I don't think has a toss to do with it .., in fact mate , those bloody posers who walk around thinking they the shit because they listen to death metal , or Slayer , or what have you .., fuck 'em .., I have met tougher single Mothers who have had been dealt a shit life and they listen to things like Bieber and Swift .., and good on them , if it moves them , they enjoy it .., well so be it .
as for the accountant comment , have you ever had to balance a budget for a group of higher ups and had a week of 12 hour days to do so or your job is found redundant and you are out ??? .., all about perspective mate
Totally fair and I definitely wouldn't want to be an accountant during tax season. I work in manufacturing and farming because I definitely prefer labor to stress. Down here in the south we just have a lot of pencil pushers with smooth hands, clean trucks, and designer "work" clothes talking a lot of shit about "snowflakes".
@@heavymetalphilosophy , I hear ya , all good mate , been in general contracting for well over 25 years , drywall , plumbing , basic electrical , flooring , you name it , and Winters up here can get brutal .., I don't own a pair of jeans without some paint stains or holes ;)
These dudes that use the words cuck and or snowflake, in my experience, are the most sensitive people on the planet. Holy lord 😂. Also you mad bro? 😂😂😝 That being said, no ones a tough guy in metal. More wholesome Maybe. Great video brother. Cheers and have a killer rest of your day.
I'm a fellow philosopher currently writing a book on morality. It has a heavy emphasis on emotions, their purpose, and generally how to overcome our emotions and take proper actions. (It has a lot of overlap with stoicism, but uses more modern information such as evolutionary theory and modern psychology). Anyways I bring this up because for a while as I was being very mindful of the types of emotions elicited during particular songs. This happened because I noticed there was an emotion that certain songs elicited that I had trouble naming at first. I decided to dub the "feeling" resoluteness. It coincides with you topic today with "toughness". It is the emotion of feeling tough or powerful, able to take on cany challenge. In particular I noticed elicited by more groove based riffing. Riffs that are processive in nature such as in break downs. A lot of more modern extreme bands make heavy use of these type of riffs. I noticed Fleshgod Apocalypse using them a lot. My point to al this is I think the reason we might thing metal makes us tough is because it can elicit in us the very emotional state that drives us to act in a resolute manner. It's not that we are tough people therefore we listen to metal. It is that we like that metal makes us feel tough. There are plenty of tough people who don't need any emotional boost to feel resolute.
To take this further, there are many other emotions elicited by metal. You mentioned metal being angry, and anger is one, but I think that is very superficial to only think of metal as angry. Thrash metal tends to be the most consistently angry. I think death metal tends elicit, anger, but also hate, resoluteness, and disgust. That disgust is harder for me to understand our relationship to in listening to it. It typically comes from the vocals and I think that is why so many people are turned off by death metal as it elicits disgust. I would also add my theory of two different types of listeners. There are those who do participatory listening where when listening to music they are as if they are part of it. On the other hand there are those who listen as an outside observer (I had a good term for this but forgot what it was). We can do one or the other and metal heads tend to be participatory listeners when listening to metal. Someone once told me they didn't like stuff like Slayer because it was like they were being yelled out. When I listen to slayer I am part of it. I'm yelling with Tom, not being yelled at by Tom. On the other hand, my disdain for styles like emo or pop punk comes from me being turned off by the whiney vocals is because I'm hearing the whining instead of doing the whining.
I'll add another emotion to the list that metal elicits which is the emotion of awe. My favorite bands tend to have fantastic harmonies that elicit awe. Bands like Iron Maiden, Kreator, Arch Enemy are good examples of having very beautiful sections that elicit awe, but it is the ability to weave a song that elicits complex mixed emotions that I really appreciate from bands. Arch Enemy could do a song that elicits resoluteness, anger, awe all in a single song. It's one of the things I think that separates a good song from a great song is the complexity of emotions it can elicit. That and the ability to elicit the motions that convey the emotions the lyrics are trying to convey. Iced Earth does very well with that on their concept albums, especially stuff from The Dark Saga which blends sadness and sorrow with resoluteness and anger. The songs we find meaningful tend to connect with us on an emotional level. Generally I think we are drawn to particular music because a combination of factors with personality traits being one of the biggest factors. With that said though thrash metal and gangster rap both elicit anger, doom metal and country can both elicit sadness, but then there are cultural factors that play a role in what we connect with. Further our emotional state at any given time will determine what we are "in the mood for".
This is fantastic analysis. I think what you said about it's not necessarily tough guys listen to metal but we like metal because it makes us feel tough is 💯 spot on.
The feeling of awe is also spot on. This is why we take genres like prog and do what metal does... Take it to the extreme and turn it into tech death.
Please keep me up to date on the progress of your book. I'd be interested to read it. 🤘
I would tack on one more to the list- cathartic sorrow. There aren't a ton of them, but there have been a handful of metal songs that convey a mournful sense of loss and grief better than the most syrupy pop song could ever muster, due to the heartfelt intensity.
"Constance," by Spiritbox springs to mind immediately. I'm a scruffy, jaded, 6'3 half-Swede, and I still find myself silently weeping every time I watch the music video. Particularly knowing what it was written about.
@@heavymetalphilosophy absolutely. I've been working on it off and on for probably a couple years now. A good chunk of it is done, but there are always aspects that I need a deeper understanding of before progressing. The basic idea I started with was trying to define morality from a secular view point. I don't think any philosophers have given a deep enough base for a moral frame work yet and I think it is something I have done to a better degree. If you don't have and underlying foundation to a moral philosophy then you often end up with contradictory principles. If instead you build a philosophy from the bottom up you have a moral framework which is more rational. I make the argument that there is objective morality based on certain criteria even if we don't always have the knowledge/wisdom to know what the moral action is. The book is intended to set a moral foundation and to be a guide to understanding how our emotions guide us to act. Virtue or vice is then the manner in which we act. Stoicism and my ideas are very much alike in the idea of acting rationally rather than emotional. I basically take stoicism a layer deeper trying to better delve into the innate emotional drives on which we act upon. Virtues are then overcoming the impulse to take negative actions and vice is either acting impulsively or foolishly. Much like stoicism there is a heavy emphasis on be wise and tempered in order to act virtuously. This is all tied into evolutionary theory with virtuous actions making our species more likely to survive and viceful action decreasing survivability. This is of course survivability of the species not just individuals other wise any form of altruism would only be a means to receive reciprocity rather than being a moral good on a deeper level.
@@Deletirium I almost mentioned grief, but grief specifically refers to sadness resulting from death/loss. Doom metal in general by my definition is either ominous such as with "Black Sabbath" which relates to fear, or sorrowful which applies to bands like Solitude Aeturnus. My list didn't cover every emotion, and I'm sure there is music that does. I think black metal tends to elicit fear with its use of desinence and certain chord progressions. If you are a black metal guy then you are the one doing the scaring. Of course there is DSBM which sometimes combines sadness and fear which makes sense if there is a fear of death but a lack of will to live.
@@Helicondrummer excellent. Sam Harris tried to tackle this topic awhile back but given some of his recent stances a lot of my admiration for him has waned and him having any authority on "morality" is suspect.
My personal experience is that a lot of metalheads are nerds me included. We dont just listen to the music. We analyze everything about the bands, production, riffs, vocals, lyrics etc. we live it.
💯I'm right there with you. HUGE nerd.
Hmmm I never thought of it before but yeah a lot of that describes me
💯
Similar to jazzheads.
I discovered metal some years back, and it really has helped me find more confidence and get in touch with a side of myself I didn’t know existed. Some people think it’s cringe, but I do feel tuff and badass listening to metal music, and now I almost get some weird satisfaction in listening to music that I know would sound really scary to the average person. It makes YOU feels scary lol, and maybe some people just need that to boost their self esteem. It just gets you into a state of mind that makes you feel like you do anything and conquer all your fears and achieve your goals
Absolutely. I really think listening to metal in the gym is a bit of performance enhancing drug.
Were not metalheads to be toughguys. Were outcasts who found a brother/sister hood that accepts our strange personalities.
People join UFC to be tough. Not become metalheads. When you go to a live show and the guy next to you puts his arm around your shoulder so you can headbang together. You knoe your with family. Cheers my fellow brothers and sisters, i love you all.
I love the way you put this! 💯🤜🤛
One of the toughest people I ever knew was my next door neighbour back when we owned a ranch. She was a little wisp of a skinny 75 year old lady who had purchased a plot of land, and hand-built her own working farm out of construction scraps and donations. She had out buildings, coops, corrals, and about 50 animals. Made a business out of selling goat cheese and bath products, and supported herself entirely without electricity- by choice.
When we had a band of trespassing atv riders trashing our land, she was the only neighbour who unquestioningly grabbed a 12g, and immediately offered to help me run them off. When a bear broke in and killed all my chickens, she came and helped me clean up the heartbreaking mess, and said to call if I spotted it again, and we'd both take care of it.
She raised 8 kids thru abject poverty and abusive husbands, and 7 of them grew up to be respected career military officers.
THAT'S what tough is.
Damn. Hell yea. That's a hard old lady. Respect.
All I can say is, word.
Tiny old lady, moms and people who doesn't look though sometimes are the toughest most metal person ever fr
Claiming listening to metal makes you tough is like claiming listening to Drill makes you a gangster.
😆
I love metal it helps me especially through hard times.
Me too brother. 🤜🤛
honestly listening to metal just makes my day more interesting and fun lol. the fact people find it weird makes me like it more for some reason lmao
Yes!! 😆🤘🤘
Metal isn't for everyone. But everyone should get a clue. Metal will open their minds. 🤘🏻
I want it to be true! 😁🤘🤘
I wonder. If everyone was into Metal, would the world be a better place? You would think so. But if that happened, what would Metal become?
🤔@@BrootalAgramorph
Every time I go to a metal concert I am reminded that most of us metal heads are not tough!
I go to many, about 99% are respectful people, even in the pit.
The unwritten rules of the pit make me love metalheads. ✊🤘
Metal isn't for everyone. I recently took a couple of friends to their first metal concert, Possessed, Kreator and Testament. They wanted to go for the experience and they both hated it. All three bands kicked ass and put on an incredible show. All they got out of it was "every song sounded the same", "too loud" and they hated the theatrics. Probably wasn't the best choice for their first metal concert.
You didn't introduce them to a gateway band first. 😆 I respect that. 🤘🤘
That's a WICKED line-up.
@@heavymetalphilosophy I took my wife to see Metallica on the 72 seasons tour... I probably should have brought them along too but I think Pantera would have been too much for them..
@@klauswigsmith All three bands kicked ass!
@@jamess3532 I've seen Testament (headlining with Death Angel and Exodus) and Kreator (opening for Mercyful Fate) but I've not seen Possessed yet.
Was supposed to, but then the pandemic hit.
That ending song for the topic at hand is peak comedy, I applaud you!
😆 Dethklok rules! 🤘🤘
Also a thing to consider: Most people don't give a shit about music. Metal often needs time to get into new stuff.
Most people i know, just klick on random mainstream playlists on spotify or radio music. When metal ist in there, it is too complex for them or too aggressive, because it also needs some time to acclimate to this style of music.
But yes. It's a very complex topic. I have too much to say about it to put it in a comment.
This is absolutely correct. For normies... Often music is just background sound or for the vibes. Metal fans are more passionate about the actual content.
Yes, was about to say something like this. Even when I was 12 and into Britney Spears etc I was super interested in everything, reading the cd booklets and so on. Music was never just something that I put on in the background.
I think tough is a state of mind. My wife had 5 kids man, and is a diesel mechanic. Toughest person I know! Thanks for another great podcast🤘
Sounds like you got a gem. We are lucky men 🤜🤛
Amen- couldn't agree more.
Imma be honest metal has made me a huge fking softie who is generally blasting Archspire and Whitechapel. It is a way for me to channel my negative emotions in a healthy way and generally has resulted in my being a kinder, loving, and more understanding person. I'm not a "tough" guy by any means. In fact, if I didn't have band merch I think most people wouldn't even think I was a metalhead. I wholly agree with you that toughness comes from what you do, not what kind of art you consume. Anyway, just starting to get into your channel and loving the experience so far, and I hope you keep making this podcast for years to come! \m/
💯 and Wow that's a big compliment. Thank you! 🙏🤘
When I was in high school (late 80s/early 90s), metal was at its height of popularity, meaning nearly EVERYONE listened to it or referenced it in some way. This included football jocks, cheerleaders, and quiet nerdy types like myself.
Right out of high school, metal fell out of favor. I joined the Marines, and some of the toughest dudes I knew didn't listen to metal; in fact, I was kind of the nerd because I followed metal in the underground (especially power and death metal).
Fast forward to today, where everybody is hunched over their phones insulting each other for not living up to some abstract standard of masculinity. Pretty precious!
Schopenhauer put it best: music is the closest thing we have to actual transcendence. For somebody like me who has gone through most of my life undiagnosed on the autism spectrum, metal has helped me negotiate a world that has been largely callous if not hostile, and I've made great friends along the way. That's all!
Well said. I'll add a Nietzsche quote "without music, life would be a mistake"
I'm 57 and I just took my 20 yr old son and his buddy to 200 Stab Wounds. Now they want to go to shows every weekend.
200 Stab Wounds!!! Yes!! Nice one Dad. 🤘🤘
My nephew, who looks like a need ( he's a great kid though ) is huge into Siberian Meat Grinder & Slaughter to Prevail
This is something I had been thinking of for a while.
What I've concluded is that metal is actually a escape valve to one's own frustrations.
If anything it is more of escapism rather than making us tougher to face the world and all its problems.
Excellent point. 🤘
I personally believe that metal at its core has always been about processing these emotions in a healthy and productive manner. While some allow themselves to live the life that metal proclaims to be. The rest are just picking up on the dark reflections of society. And trying to process that information.
Agreed. Metal allows artists a medium to express their Jungian shadow
My dude. Im a semi retired "old head" with too much time on my hands, thus i watch a good amount of TH-cam on subjects like military history , crafting , DIY everything, cooking and of course my wide range of music that i adore. Youre easily my new favorite music guy. First off major props on farming, that is some hard ass work, been on that ride enough with relatives to know. Secondly, I really love ancient, medieval and modern military history, and ive always been fascinated with weaponry, so im somewhat of a firearms enthusiast, as much as my budget will allow, which isnt much, its nice to see some common ground. That said, i have three cousins that were/are firemen, two of which worked their way up from department of forestry summer jobs, to battalion chiefs of their oen departments. They are all lifelong avid hunters as well as being family men. They are some of the toughest dudes i know, but you wouldnt know it unless you knew them. My point is, they all love Country music, and dont even know who Pantera is. I myself love old 60's n 70's country, honky tonk and i adore Texas Swing, but i cannot tolerate anything country from the last several decades, it just makes me want to put my head into a wire wheel. Metal, hardcore punk, 77 punk, Oi!, Epic Trance, New Wave, Psychobilly, old school style hip hop, 70's glam, are my go to musics, mostly punk and metal though. Nile, Draconian, Amon Amarth are a few of my loves. Sorry for droning on here. My point is, my style of dress and shaved head might seem scary to most , but im humble and well mannered, im no tough guy. Ive worked as a roofer, paint factory, computer repair and retail, all my lofe experience at 59 years old has taught me the toughest folks are often the last you'll expect to be, thus you never really know and shouldnt judge on appearances or lifestyle. I know 1% MC folks that are pretty damn tough but are also the most humble dudes that i know. Anyways, Im no tough guy, nor do i aspire to be. My motto, be humble.be kind. be considerate.
Peace.
You hit the nail on the head. When you've been around actual tough people it humbles you. Thank you. 🙏🤘
I'm tough! My wife always says I'm difficult to deal with, lol
Haha! 😆😆🤘🤘
Tough is how one takes what they have been dealt in life, and turn it to their growth, defiance, strength, self knowledge, and self mastery. If metal is the backing track one chooses for it, then hell yeah. If not... one can still be tough.
Well said. 🤘
I have some bands to get me to a nice relaxed status and some bands to get me angry (for my workouts).
I say it's not about being a bad guy or not, it's all about the love for metal and anyone can listen to it.
💯I ain't gonna hit any PRs listening to Sublime and I'm never gonna chill with my lady listening to Archspire.
I’m 37, been listening to metal since I was a kid, so 20 plus years. I’ve always been the skinniest smallest dude, used to get made fun of for it a lot. There’s something about heavy music that always made me feel more powerful and resistant to peoples bullsh*t. Doesn’t make me “tough” by any means, but has definitely helped boost my confidence, and always makes me feel like a warrior lol
Metal definitely helps us endure. 🤘🤘
really humbling. thanks for this reminder. sad this is the first time some people they realise theyre not as cool as they imagine themselves
I try to remind myself all the time. It really only takes hanging out with my son to realize I haven't been cool for a long time 😆
Btw do you know what rizz is? I need to urban dictionary that one so I know wtf he just said to me.
Hahaha. I'm a 44 year old metal head with two pre teen daughters. They remind me everyday that I'm not cool. Haha. I love them so!
Dude this riff of the week fucking sent me 😂 one of my favourite episodes you've done! I've often wondered about the metalhead superiority complex a lot of us (me included) have internalised, for seemingly no real reason. Apart from the "tough guy" trope though, I think it has a lot to do with the message of a lot of metal as you said, with the "I reject society's bullshit, and the state of everything etc", and we possibly judge those that don't, that don't feel that anger at the state of things. But that's just my 2c 🤷🏻♀️
😆 Face Fisted is one of my favorites. And yes this is a great theory! 🤘🤘
But isn't that warranted? Is a prisoner that doesn't know they're imprisoned inferior than one that knows the game?
But also iso the informed prisoner much more unhappy?
@@benh6452 I mean this is fair, and I agree 😅 but that is very much coming from the whole "they're just sheep that don't know better blah blah". Like sure, but are we any better for it? There's a lot of angry, messed up people in the scene (no judgement intended), and a lot of normies seem pretty happy
Hot damn….graphene level insights start to finish….metal as a zen-ish like mindset is much like being good at high level modern street skating….that doesn’t make you tough….being good at it IS tough…
I like your words here. Competency makes toughness, not consumption. 😁🤘
Metal doesn't make you tough.
WHAT YOU BEEN THROUGH AND WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH AND THE WILL TO FIGHT AND DUST YOURSELF OFF GET THE FUCK UP AND GO AGAIN. IT'S A MENTALITY.
💯
That's what's up.
To me it seems that the tough image is nothing more than just that. An image. It's more of a way to rebel or even to mask some people are actually insecure. A kind of armor or something.
Agreed. I love old Schwarzenegger movies. They're entertaining, but I would be appalled if that's the way he handled all his problems in real life.
As an insecure person, I agree!
@@ericv7720 I hear ya.
10:44 RIP to anyone's algorithm when they search "Stoic" in TH-cam.
😆
🤣🤣 That's like searching for certain terms on Google without turning on safe search.
what is that
The broicism is strong
@@theblurmetalhead There's dozens, if not over 100 channels with "stoic" as part of their name that use an AI voiceover for pseudo Alpha Male improvement content. It's a shortsighted alduteration of Stoic Philosophy.
One of the most liberating things that I have realised about music, is that no one needs to justify why they like the music they listen to. You certainly can, but an answer such as " this speaks to my soul" is perfectly acceptable.
Perfectly! 🤘🤘
When I really think about it, most of the softest goobers I've ever known listened to the most extreme music.
Me! 😆
Have watched a few of your videos now I’m very upset…..that I hadn’t found you sooner! You have gained a new subscriber.
I myself have been guilty of calling others softies for listening to music that was “softer” than what I listen to. Years of self reflection and life experience helped me see how much of a clown that made me. I know a body builder who listens to basically nothing but R&B and Drake. Not exactly hardcore, but the dude himself? He’s an absolute beast.
I on the other hand cannot get through Brother Bear without tearing up, and I enjoy listening to Portal. 😂😂😂
Haha. Thank you and welcome aboard! 🙏🤘
You knew I was going to chime in on this one, lol. So, being a teenager in the 80's listening to Metal, especially bands like Slayer,Venom Possessed etc... you were judged immediately because of the band shirts you wore to school. Someone would hear what you and a couple of friends were listening to and you were judged. So with that being said, it does make you develop a "Tough Skin". I always had to constantly defend myself from the "Normies" so I developed a thick skin to deal with the constant judgement and ridicule. Now, it's much easier to be a "Metal Head" 🤘
It definitely is. You can buy a Slayer shirt in every shopping mall in America now. 😆
@@heavymetalphilosophy That's called "Progress" 🤘🤣🤣🤣🤣
When I think about it, it's quite funny. I'm kind of a outsider at school, living in my little bubble listening to metal and frowning constantly, but when I arrive home and see my cat, I just sound like a little girl talking to him (almost 17 yo dude here btw). I don't really care how I look, but when I see a cat, I'm going to pet it and cuddle with it no matter how many patches with skulls and devil I have on my vest.
💯Cats rule though! 🤘🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy 🤘🤘🤘
"Pet a cat when you encounter one"
I'm not a fan of thrash, black and heavy metal (especially older stuff), but I do appreciate the dynamics of modern metalcore and progressive metal. Bands like Bad Omens, ERRA, The Safety Fire, Silent Planet and Periphery are definitely making metal an enjoyable experience for a wider audience.
Besides that, blast beats and tremelo chugging is objectively unpleasant to listen to unless you associate it with some type of identity
(Long hair, black clothes and tattoos)
I do like Erra and Silent Planet. I dig a lot of Bad Omens heavier stuff.
I do love me some blast beats too though 😁🤘🤘
I think many tough people can align themselves with metal for the external aspects of being heavy and the lyrical content, however merely listening to metal certainly doesn't make you tough. That's earned through the trials and tribulations of life and how you as a person deal with them. This feels inspired by a certain youtube Dawg who exists on the tough guy vibe...
Also, your shot grouping was great. Keep training!
Well said! I'll say my main inspiration for this episode was all the "Oh you don't worship the Avatar of Kyle Rittenhouse? You must be voting for Kamala and be a snowflake" kinda bombardment my comment section got from the last episode. I do listen to death metal made after 1995 and a bit of twinkcore though 😏
With that said, my man obviously trains way harder than I do and I do listen to death metal made before 1995 as well so I don't want to be a hater.
Thank you. For my novice level I was pretty happy with my performance. Good coaching is a cheat code. 🔫🤘🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy I'm definitely not pissing on the Dawg, he obviously trains hard and earns it. I think it's hard for people to understand two things can be true at the same time, like being tough and enjoying pop or being a metal head and being sensitive. People are far too complicated than that to be boxed in unless you allow yourself to be. I appreciate the recent posts on this. Also, how good are the solos on the latest Crown album? Dudes on fire!
@@Jgrav Fire guitar solos for real! 🔥🤘🤘
I mean a lot of us are work strong. But I’ve ran into some wimpy little headbangers to so I’d say we come in all sizes.
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My argument though, when I can get away with it, I find I feel less of the pain from hard work when playing metal and hard rock as I work. While pop has the opposite effect for me.
Definitely! 🤘🤘
the whole "tough guy" thing was always wrong. Black Sabbath, literally the first Metal band, already had tracks like " Solitude", showing a more vulnerable side
Right! Toni was the only tough guy in that band. The rest of them were hippies.
Another good question is how does listening to extreme metal effect peoples emotions. Because music does effect emotions.
Personally i've never even wondered if metal makes a person tough. It's like asking if listening to gangsta rap makes a person gangsta.
Good point. 🤘
Metal music don't make you tough but it's Life itself makes you tough!
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"Carry me, my wings of hatred Beyond the fear of knowing all other
I want to see my very own death."
🤘🤘
I have known all kind of tough guys thru the years, most of them are under the ground now. There is always somebody badder or crazier
💯 and people don't think about how much of a factor luck is. You zig when you shoulda zagged or you didn't notice the other guy standing off to the side. Your opponent falls and hits his head on something awful. A ricochete. Shrapnel. Any number of things can and do go wrong.
@heavymetalphilosophy yes sir, not saying I can't take care of myself if I have to but I'm a lover haha
@@anthonydavella8350 isn't that so much more enjoyable? 😆🤘
Fav CC song?
Evisceration plague for me.
It's between Evisceration, Scourge of Iron, and Contamination Contagion for me. 🤘🤘
Yo this my new favorite channel
Thank you! And welcome aboard. 🤘🤘
Metal, gym, philosophy, Philippines martial arts we got it all here
😁🤘🤘
I love metal because it's got meaning and a message (mostly) Metalartists seems to do it for the love of metal and expression.
Pop-songs are mostly about love and popartists often doesn't seem to do it for the music, it seems they're in it for fame and money..
💯it's about emotion and authenticity. And when pop performers do start trying to be artists is when they start getting weird AF. 😆
In my experience, most metal heads are softies. And I mean that in the most positive way possible. Kind and caring as a default BUT not taking any shit, and more importantly not accepting shit against others. 🖤
Being tough, in my opinion, is not about being strong, or doing difficult or dangerous things. It’s about how you deal with hardships; physical AND emotional. And I think listening to metal (and other ”dark” music) is a way to face, deal with, and accept your own dark emotions, making you a happier and more ”well adjusted” person. Or, a tougher person. 😊🤘
Well said. Now that's a method of connecting the music to toughness I can get behind. Metal gives artists a vehicle to express their Jungian shadow and for us to participate in that expression. This is one but definitely only one of many factors in developing our empathy towards others, recognizing that we all have some amount of that shadow within us. 🤘
So happy for the Josh Barnett shout out (love Immortal brown) as soon as you said bolt thrower haha. Carlos condit came out to rage against the machine, tool and Deftones. I remember thiago alves coming out to sepultura ratmattatathatta whatever it's called, super dope walk out song!
I agree overall, most metalheads are skinny nerdy incel types OR meathead goofballs that just like to hit the skinny guys in mosh pits.
However, I think the tough thing is because of first gender, most men want to at least think they are tough. Also, metal makes you, at times very angry and you will have fantasies of "being a tough guy".
Working inpatient psych for over 15 years and being involved in almost a thousand violent interactions with psychotics, I must admit hearing in my head "dead by dawn" before a confrontation with the psycho meant a lot, but so did my BJJ training...
It's definitely our gender. You rarely see females behave like this. And you know I'm all for being tough. It's certainly a useful trait. Unfortunately, a lot of dudes out here are just looking for short cuts for masculinity.
I am not nearly as tough as I have to be to endure listening to Taylor Swift.
😆
I don't I've ever thought this, even as a teenager.
You were a smarter teenager than me 😆
Don't forget about record sails especially for older bands
Metal is for damaged ppl to help them cope with life's struggles. Some might learn to become tough through that, some might remain the softies they've always been.
People get whatever they are looking for in music. Sonics, resonances, pscyhoacoustics- all play a part into what people gravitate to. Music is mathematical in nature and transcends cultures. Artists express whatever struggles, loss, dreams and obscurities- which the listener may interpret any which way depending on ones mood. Brutal music can calm as well as serve as catharsis. Melodies can be interpreted as sad or happy or any other emotion someone may align. Some people have lived hard lives and use whatever sound to temper themselves. It all comes from within \m/
Well said! 🤘🤘
Anyone of any level of toughness can listen to any music. Plenty of toughness to be found within the metal scene for sure, but it doesn't have to be because we listen to metal, it can be for other reasons besides that for sure. It doesn't make us weak either of course, but that doesn't make it the thing that makes tough among us tough. Also not that it necessarily matters, but I wouldn't be surprised of some of those fighters that walk out to rap songs and stuff like that also listen to metal, but they probably also like other types of music, given how many people like different tyoes of music I'm sure many professional fighters are the same in that regard, it's also more palatable for the auidence if there's more rap and pop songs and for some who do listen to metal it won't always be their favorite genre, even if they do like it. Hope my rambling makes sense.
Total sense. 🤘
I've been around metalheads for 30 years. Metallers are not hard people. In general absolutely not. In fact, many people in the scene are pretty sensitive folk. There are a lot of people in Metal who have an angry and cantankerous way of carrying themselves with grievances, but these types are mostly the weakest of the bunch. In general, I don't think one's musical taste says a lot about their "toughness". In addition to that, the majority of "hard" people don't seem to have a particular receptivity to music. Bottom line, you shouldn't be concerning yourself about whether you're tough or not. Listen to your music and enjoy life.
Great point. There's a lot of people conflating that cantankerous presentation you pointed out with toughness. And they often conflate being a rude asshole with "telling it like it is".
I'm so fuckin tuff, I'm so fucking tuff That's Right!
Now I gotta listen to Dethklok
😆🤘🤘
Mental toughness is the true test. Someone can be physically strong, but it is the mental toughness that makes them physically tough. Without mental toughness, a physically strong person is merely a paper tiger.
I was raised and still live in the Texas Panhandle. This area is known for raising cattle and drilling for oil and natural gas. The toughest people I have ever met are ranchers (including my uncle) and the guys that worked the rigs back in the day. The music they listen to isn't rock/metal but country. I am not, and never have been a fan of country music with one exception that I will get to. I was raised on Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Grand Funk Railroad, as well as southern rock bands like ZZ Top, Allman Brothers, and, of course, Skynyrd. Because my friends and I were big (I was the smallest at 6' tall) we were going to bars as soon as we could drive. Where did we go to dance and meet girls? We went to the country bars. I have been convinced since my teens that the best way to dance with a woman is two-stepping or waltzing to country music. Besides the attractive (and also tough) girls, those places were full of guys that we knew were tougher than nails. So we did the smart thing and made friends. I also realized that they liked country music for the same reason I liked rock - the music spoke to them on an emotional level. Old school country is just as emotional as the anger of metal (although not all metal is angry) and was very good at expressing world weariness, whether it be caused by relationships, bad luck or just the world in general.
Word. Everyone in this area is into country too. And today's country is particularly intolerable to my ears... But these folks are also the first ones to show up if my well is broken or I need someone with a tractor to move something for me.
@@heavymetalphilosophy Yes, "intolerable" is a great word for today's country. The old school country music of the 70s, when I was growing up, was infinitely better than what is out there today. That was the era of outlaw country and the few country artists I really enjoyed - Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, David Allan Coe, Jerry Jeff Walker and, of course, Johnny Cash. The 70s really was an amazing decade for music, the decade I went from age 9 to 19. The 80s weren't bad either - I discovered Motorhead and Iron Maiden and then came bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Slayer and the second best band from Texas, Pantera.
Metal is probably the most emotional kind of music there is. Personally I love it specifically BECAUSE it makes me feel stuff - which so happens is how I judge music in general. Does it make me feel shit? well then it's good art, that's what it's for 😂 The notion that metal is for tough guys is nonsense, I think a better description of its target audience is metal is music for outcaststs and misfits 😅
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Metal is merely more audibly abrasive than some other types of music
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Dethklok mentioned !!!!!!!
😁🤘🤘
My mom doesnt have a deep list of metal bands she loves but my mom has attended many metal concerts with me. Ive seen cannibal corpse with her and many other heavy bands. She especially loves lamb of god.
She sounds awesome! 🤘🤘
I dont know any metalhead who made it to adulthood thinking it made them tough lol.
we are all pretty self aware in my experience
I didn't know any either until I put myself on the Internet like a naive fool 😆🤘
Hey man you got pretty cool content. You earned a sub.🤘😃
Thank you and welcome aboard! 🙏🤘
Dear John, I think that all lovers of pathological interpretations of stoicism would benefit from reading "Mille Plateaux" by Deleuze and Guattari and something from Goffman. Am I too harsh and mean? Metal is not for everyone and it is very good that you are debunking the age-old myth of gatekeeping, which is thoughtlessly reproduced on the Internet. We live in a world of thought cripples from which it is difficult to break away and which greatly impoverish our discourse or make it pointless in some respects. Here you have discussed one of the many thought patterns that people tend to follow. Big bows.
Pathological interpretations is a good way to put it.
@@heavymetalphilosophy Hahaha, True. I have an anecdote related to the group ZEAL & ARDOR. On September 1, 2024, they played in my city in Poland, in a club smaller than my house, full of records and books. The PROXIMA club was half full, but they gave it their all. They even prepared a special choreography parodying Catholic masses. Black metal, soul, blues and laternatine metal together are something that is not that successful in Europe, but I am a huge fan of them. Greetings from the homeland of Behemoth, Kat, Riverside, Decapitaded, Vader and Mgla. Outside of metal, I listen to a lot of things... including weird stuff like occult folk-punk Bridge City Sinners and satanic duo Twin Temple.
@@GregorGregor-st9by That's a cool memory!
Well said. 👍
Thank you! 🙏🤘
@heavymetalphilosophy No no, thank you. I enjoy your vids sir. I appreciate you just doing your thing. Hope to see more.
My hard candy shell makes me tuff 🤘😁🤘
Edit: is that Metalocalypse playing at the end
Are we talking M&Ms or Gobstoppers here?
And yes...Dethklok rules 😁🤘🤘
@heavymetalphilosophy
🤘woooooooooooooooooo🤘dethklok rules🤘 and yeah I'm gobstopper tuff bwaahaahaa 🤘🍻🤘
Metalica iron maiden are bigg especially Metalica, i ask a random old German grandma and she hade heard about Metalica, and they play them on the radio in my country
Nah man makes me chill I listen to alot of Death Metal likes of Devangelic typse of bands. I use it for work when I do my restaurant deliveries to the chefs lol.
This sounds like a pretty chill job. 🤘🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy yeah pretty much most of the chefs I deal with are pretty chill. Now when it comes to finding parking space to park the B truck good luck. Some people just don't know how read signs that says trucks loading and unloading only. That's a huge ticket in Portland... 1000 bux lol.
@@KeikoFXDesigns 1000!!!! Damn!
Although very rarely can someone who gets intimidated by metal can be tough. You don't need to be tough to listen to metal, but you're probably not tough if you fear metal. Tell this to Justin Horval.
Fair. I'm not tough tho so I won't tell this to Justin. I'd probably ask him his shoulder routine 😆
Cradle of Filth.. "That's a band I'd take my girlfriend to go see" 🤘🏻 And that's a True story... and to add to it. We did go see Billy Idol and Weird Al, both shows were bad-ass.. we both have a wide range of interests. My first show was Slayer in '93. I've been to Pantera Maiden Venom Soulfly White Zombie Slipknot Manson Danzig Avenged Disturbed and many more. There's no show I've seen that my Wife wouln't have loved.. Machismo right? Metal's for tough guys. Sheeeeit. Nothing is more Metal than a cute puppy. 🤘🏻
Sounds like you got a keeper! We are lucky men. 😁🤘🤘
Depends on the person
Sorry for 2 comments. I agree with you brother, except for one thing. Bolt Thrower kinda...sorta...makes you tougher 😂😂
I want it to be true!! 😆🤘🤘
I, for one, love the WOMEN of metal and the WOMEN who listen to them. And yeah, I can skin a deer and run a chainsaw and whatever. Doesnt make me tough, it makes me rural. Just listen to the new stuff from LOWEN, ESCUELA GRIND, GHOSTHEART NEBULA, SILHOUETTE, GEL, BERENICE, etc. I just wanna buy em all flowers, man! The BATMETAL outro cracked me up, btw.
Right!! Imagine not wanting women in the space... Makes you really wonder about some folks.
Toughness is a trait that's influenced and measured by so many factors. Think about it, what the hell does a genre have to do with one's character and potential? People are silly and insecure.
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Take a grab on Archspire and Benighted ... tough is for thoughtless, to be aware of your weekness is important and ofc don't be an asshole. Tough is everyone who doesnt surrenders to live. Metal does not - in my Opinion - makes us tough, it can make us feel tougher, yes, maybe. For some people, metal is maybe a reason to stay alive, for others its a more and more let's say "pop-theme". If you like "tough" shit, listen to the Bands I mentioned (subgenres). It's not tough liking them, it's just personal taste. Some love for the blastbeats, squeals etc. not a mayority or even a part of "our minority" has to like it, will probably never, I guess and it's not Swift(ish), obviously. Metal can make you tougher, if you think, when you listen to toughstuff, you'll become tougher. But in general, you might seem tougher, but you are not. Grow, be empathic, be nice to other human beings, listen to tech death, help an older person, some stuff like this might help to be tougher (tech death excluded). Experience in live, that made me tough, metal helped me to stay alive. And now for you: Starting to love your Videos, although I almost don't watch any TH-cam etc. content. Good Vibes ;)
Well said. Thank you. 🙏🤘
Listening to Black Sabbath makes you cooler than everyone else....... that's just a fact.
Proven fact! 😎🤘🤘
This is true. i get nominated for VMAs every time i wear my plain black shirt with a purple sabbath logo on it.
Naaaah.. what makes you tough is the mindset you have not the music you like
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I wanna make comments right as the vid is starting but you know what? Imma listen first...
Respect ✊
Tough guy is unexpectedly in us if i get jumped in a mug me depending how it run into and blink of an eye ubwalk from there like that happened wow like all can say equalizer vibes all got to say
I don't listen to metal to be tough. I listen to metal the peel the crusty layers off my soul. Being tough is being thrown through the meat grinder and emerging on the other side to dust yourself off. Metal is wash afterward.
I like this description. 🤘🤘
Didn't know Keanu Reeves has a metalhead brother.
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It absolutely doesn't!!
It's not stoicism, I'm just tired...
Me too boss 😔
Im a rivethead first, black metal is my second love. I forgot about being tough because I've been busy preparing to live in the matrix and the inevitable downfall of society, where I'll Mad Max my way into the post-apocalyptic wasteland that comes after. 😂 Priorities, i guess😂
😆good point. 🤘
Metal is not for tough guys, it is people who like the aesthetics of toughness. Or the music.
This is probably correct. 🤘
No..... Resilience comes from experience. Not telling yourself you're tough because you do this that or whatever.... because you believe this that or whatever.
But we all know a shitload of metalheads, punx, and hardcore kids who think it does!
Right!? Like it's some sort of short cut or Barometer.
This is something I've thought about a lot in light of the last 8 to 10 years of world wide sociopolitics.
It's becoming much more common again for people to adhere to these surface identities. If I'm "this" than that makes me "that". Such as "I like loud violent music that most people find intimidating therefore I must also be intimidating." Makes no sense.... but some people do seem to think this way lol.
But reality is..... our own unique experiences make us who we are. Sadly....suffering, hardship, and consequence is what makes us "tough". There's no easy path to it, there's no guarantee we'll come out tougher on the other end after having these types of experiences.
Furthermore..... it's important to self reflect and to keep ourselves in check. It's a dangerous path we end up on if we start to turn this concept into self inflation I guess.
@@heavymetalphilosophy And yes. I'm the deathcore and metalcore fan lololol. We're the least serious metalheads in the flock.
Only Unique Leader bands believe themselves to be tough lol.
Ok, so, "tough"... I think there's an underlying "toughness" through all of heavy music-and it's almost always understood that the role it plays is NOT primary, with only a few exceptions (like that snowflake comment). I do think there are SOME bands that attract that more-primal aspect of toughness, like Pantera or Slayer...the rest of us see that, and we get it. It's cool, just, maybe, kinda silly. And there are other bands like Maiden that have a legacy of "toughness," but LOOK at them. Those dudes are fuckin' happy. But for me, if I look at what I LOVED the very first time I got a heavy album - For Those About to Rock....Even at that age, I felt "different" than the other kids, and this music felt "different," like, it was made for misfits. And if there's one thing a misfit loves, it's finding other misfits...this is counter-culture, and it makes the world a better place. There's a certain level of toughness misfits need to have-and need to express in healthy ways, and for us, it's gathering together to slam into each other for a couple of hours UNTIL SOMEONE DROPS THEIR PHONE OR FALLS DOWN, THEN WE ALL FUCKIN' STOP AND HELP OUR FRIEND, then go back to slamming into each other.
Well said. I love the bravado that runs through rock music generally and the extreme (like you said often silly) direction that metal takes it. I just don't want people to conflate that wholesome enjoyment with bullshit.
@@heavymetalphilosophy oh, that HAS to happen to some degree...and I think we manage it well. RAWK ON BROTHER.
Tampon boys was invited by justin horval, aka j dawg
Awww man I think I might've given this guy too much credit then. Of course he copped it from J Dawg. 😒
Fick yeah Dethklok!😂🤘🏻
Any chance I get! 😆🤘🤘
Phil Collins Puppets Spitting Image Land of the Confusion on how people metal be
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lol i died laughing at the satannnn!!! \m/
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Ive been around for a while and theres two groups of people you dont wanna cross at shows and thats hardcore dudes and skinheads. The latter it doesnt matter the type really; some are worse than others. They come from the same musical origin and the violence is real.
With that said of course metal heads certianly have more resolve and heart than your average person for normal adversities but if youre talking about fighting i never knew the thrash metal dudes for fighting. Im older now and fighting is stupid, unless its totally necessary and i have something for that anyway.
I guess you haven't heard of J-Dawg talk about the master GateKeeper...lol
Master gatekeeper?! No but I feel I need to now 😆 you wouldn't happen to have a link for me would you?
@@heavymetalphilosophy @justinhorval8491
@@heavymetalphilosophy @justinhorval8491
@@heavymetalphilosophy Justin Horval...
@@franciscoovalle4853 I know who he is. I mean the specific video. He's rather prolific 😆💪🤘
define tough .., I met some of the nicest folks who were dealt hard stuff man and they stuck it through , others fold .., listening to a genre of music I don't think has a toss to do with it .., in fact mate , those bloody posers who walk around thinking they the shit because they listen to death metal , or Slayer , or what have you .., fuck 'em .., I have met tougher single Mothers who have had been dealt a shit life and they listen to things like Bieber and Swift .., and good on them , if it moves them , they enjoy it .., well so be it .
as for the accountant comment , have you ever had to balance a budget for a group of higher ups and had a week of 12 hour days to do so or your job is found redundant and you are out ??? .., all about perspective mate
Totally fair and I definitely wouldn't want to be an accountant during tax season. I work in manufacturing and farming because I definitely prefer labor to stress.
Down here in the south we just have a lot of pencil pushers with smooth hands, clean trucks, and designer "work" clothes talking a lot of shit about "snowflakes".
@@heavymetalphilosophy , I hear ya , all good mate , been in general contracting for well over 25 years , drywall , plumbing , basic electrical , flooring , you name it , and Winters up here can get brutal .., I don't own a pair of jeans without some paint stains or holes ;)
Metal is art to be awed at. But a persons character is a different story. Btw thank you for calling out the TikTokers who think they are stoics😂
That's a great way to phrase it. 🤘🤘
These dudes that use the words cuck and or snowflake, in my experience, are the most sensitive people on the planet. Holy lord 😂.
Also you mad bro? 😂😂😝
That being said, no ones a tough guy in metal. More wholesome Maybe. Great video brother. Cheers and have a killer rest of your day.
At least that guy strung together a combination I hadn't seen before 😆
I'd like to think Toni Iommi is tough 😆
Thanks bro. You're the man. 🤜🤛
@@heavymetalphilosophy yeah I suppose you’re right about Iommi. That is one tough dude.
My favorite African American content creator 😩
Who?
No, keyboards make me tough....not metal. 😂
😆😆