Dennis, I really like EVERYTHING you have to offer. Thank you for presenting these videos. I have a question. First, I do have a degree in recording, and strive to make my tiny all-in-one production room as acoustically stable as possible. To that end, I have designed and built a rear wall diffuser unlike any I've seen. How would I go about achieving a good diagnosis of its performance? Can I send you pictures? Than you for any advice.
When you mange excess reverb, you must have a certain amount of surface area coverage on the four walls. If you can not meet the coverage requirements on the walls to meet the designed for reverb times, you must go to the ceiling.
I went to a funeral this spring at a traditional Roman Catholic church. Lots of marble and stained glass. Beautiful building. Great pipe organ (RC doesn't do "worship bands", though many of them did guitar masses back in the late 60s and the 70s until the fad wore off). HORRENDOUS reverb issues. As soon as I heard the PA - or rather didn't hear it, because it was super loud, but with all the reverb, you couldn't make out half of what the priest was saying. I immediately thought of you and Acoustic Fields. If you saw some photos of the inside, you'd see why the reverb is formidable. I wonder how low you could get the reverb times with all those hard surfaces, many of which couldn't be covered with treatment. St. Teresa's in Lincoln Nebraska, by the way.
Welcome to our world. Churches have three main issues: no budget, no space to treat and no knowledge. Without space to treat, you will have to live with the reverb times.
Another great video; if I could also suggest when you talk to churches, they buy PA systems that are generic, and usually very wrong for the room. The first church picture is a long narrow shape, so don't let someone put 90x60 or 90 degree constant directivity horns in that space. A 60x40 degree dispersion pattern will reduce the reflected sound to start with, which will make your job a little easier, and doesn't cost any more for the church to buy. In very large rooms, small repeater speakers with time delay can make a big difference. This is another area I've seen so much bad advice given, and vast amounts of money spent that could have been avoided. Start with the right sound system and it will cost less to treat the room after the fact. Randy
That will not be possible when the speaker manufacturers tell churches that their speaker systems will manage reverberation times. It appears that they must make many mistakes until they get to the truth.
Thanks for the good info. I might have missed something but why in your prior video did you recommend doing the rear wall first and this time it is the sidewall? Thanks much.
I have a question about diaphragmatic absorbers. Would it hurt to build them to attach together and then attach a large tv stand on top ? Like a entertaining stand of sorts.
Thank you for another great insight video. I would be very interested to hear more about that third church that got the idea right, but execution wrong. What depth of acoustic panels would be ball-park required there? Would you typically need deeper panels on the back walls and thinner on the side walls (or vice versa)? What is the frequency impact of the depth?
Managing reverberation times is all about square footage of coverage. Every room surface contributes 17% to the problem and requires so mush treatment coverage using the proper rate and level of absorption. Every room size and associated volumes are different.
@@AcousticFields Thank you for your quick answer. I realise my questions were quite broad, but would be interested in hearing more about the (frequency) impact on the depth of absorption panels in future videos
What are your objectives? Managing energy in the FOH with a band would be low-frequency focused. The other parts of the church would be reflection or reverberation management.
We have all but given up on churches. After 316 proposals and lots of work effort to achieve the Rt-30/60 goals, there is no money for the required treatment, no space to treat, and absolutely no understanding of what needs to be done. They are ripe to be taking advantage of and mainy have been.
Good thought. It is amazing to me how little architects know about absorption, diffusion, and the most critical, noise transmission. I see structures designed everyday that will not reduce enough energy transmitted from noise sources to the rooms to match the room usage. Then, after the structure is built, people complain they can't hear themselves think.
@@AcousticFields It's been a lot of years, but the architecture majors I knew were only required to take one 100-level physics class, and it didn't involve calculus (which they also didn't have take, just algebra 102 or similar). I could be remembering it wrong though. Decades ago.
Hi. Thank you so much for your educational videos! I have 2 questions if you don't mind 1) Am I correct assuming diffusers do not change reverberation times in a room? 2) Why do you not recommend diffusers on side walls in 2ch listening setup? Thank you. EDIT: Ok, I think I found the answer for first question: "We must manage the Rt-60 times within our rooms before we introduce sound diffusion in small rooms. Diffusion added to a small room with high reverberation times will make the room sound worse. *It will increase the Rt-60 times* when our goal is to lower them." in www.acousticfields.com/sound-diffusion-in-small-rooms/
The worst ones are the ones that think it's OK to turn the volume up so loud you can't hear the person standing next to you talk, or your own voice for that matter.
@@AcousticFields Despite your vast knowledge, experience and credibility; I honestly don't think people like that would pay you any attention. "Love your neighbor as yourself" should be more than sufficient reason to not turn the volume up that loud. They disregard that by claiming it's a personal preference which I agree with. Their preference is to make a lot of excessive noise under the pretense of praising God. My preference is to not end up with more ear damage in my old age than I already suffer from. Needless to say, I won't attend a church that does that.
@@AcousticFields I literally told the church I played at, “buying more speakers isnt gonna fix the issue” the MD responded with “Its a sound board issue” I said “The more sound that is being reverberated, is eventually gonna create more chances for feedback” They said “Its not gonna work” I was gonna say “You havent even tried” But I gave up and said “Ok”
S, Agreed. However, older members can not hear speech or music and when they can not hear the spoken or musical word, they do not attend. We have treated many churches and in every case attendance has increased.
Awesome video and teaching
Glad you liked it!
Really interesting and informative - thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Always great information!! Thanks for showing the pictures and explaining the problems and solutions
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
Our pleasure!
Dennis, I really like EVERYTHING you have to offer. Thank you for presenting these videos. I have a question. First, I do have a degree in recording, and strive to make my tiny all-in-one production room as acoustically stable as possible. To that end, I have designed and built a rear wall diffuser unlike any I've seen. How would I go about achieving a good diagnosis of its performance? Can I send you pictures? Than you for any advice.
Hello Dennis,
If a hall is large, but has a low ceiling, is placement of panels on the walls still the main choice?
When you mange excess reverb, you must have a certain amount of surface area coverage on the four walls. If you can not meet the coverage requirements on the walls to meet the designed for reverb times, you must go to the ceiling.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
This is true. My RT60 church measures was typical 4.5 up to 8. 5 sek... No budget for treatment to...
I went to a funeral this spring at a traditional Roman Catholic church. Lots of marble and stained glass. Beautiful building. Great pipe organ (RC doesn't do "worship bands", though many of them did guitar masses back in the late 60s and the 70s until the fad wore off). HORRENDOUS reverb issues. As soon as I heard the PA - or rather didn't hear it, because it was super loud, but with all the reverb, you couldn't make out half of what the priest was saying. I immediately thought of you and Acoustic Fields. If you saw some photos of the inside, you'd see why the reverb is formidable. I wonder how low you could get the reverb times with all those hard surfaces, many of which couldn't be covered with treatment. St. Teresa's in Lincoln Nebraska, by the way.
Welcome to our world. Churches have three main issues: no budget, no space to treat and no knowledge. Without space to treat, you will have to live with the reverb times.
Hi, can an unplastered brick wall reduce reverberation or a rough plaster ?
Hard surfaces increase Rt-30/60 times.
Another great video; if I could also suggest when you talk to churches, they buy PA systems that are generic, and usually very wrong for the room. The first church picture is a long narrow shape, so don't let someone put 90x60 or 90 degree constant directivity horns in that space. A 60x40 degree dispersion pattern will reduce the reflected sound to start with, which will make your job a little easier, and doesn't cost any more for the church to buy. In very large rooms, small repeater speakers with time delay can make a big difference. This is another area I've seen so much bad advice given, and vast amounts of money spent that could have been avoided. Start with the right sound system and it will cost less to treat the room after the fact. Randy
That will not be possible when the speaker manufacturers tell churches that their speaker systems will manage reverberation times. It appears that they must make many mistakes until they get to the truth.
Thanks for the good info. I might have missed something but why in your prior video did you recommend doing the rear wall first and this time it is the sidewall? Thanks much.
Rear wall if there is a band at front of the house. Sidewalls if just a PA and congregation. Nothing is simple and easy with acoustics.
I have a question about diaphragmatic absorbers. Would it hurt to build them to attach together and then attach a large tv stand on top ? Like a entertaining stand of sorts.
They are sealed units that can weigh in excess of 200 lbs.
How much padded pews can contribute for better acoustics?
We do not use padded pews in our reverb calculations. Their impact is not staistically significant.
Thank you for another great insight video. I would be very interested to hear more about that third church that got the idea right, but execution wrong. What depth of acoustic panels would be ball-park required there? Would you typically need deeper panels on the back walls and thinner on the side walls (or vice versa)? What is the frequency impact of the depth?
Managing reverberation times is all about square footage of coverage. Every room surface contributes 17% to the problem and requires so mush treatment coverage using the proper rate and level of absorption. Every room size and associated volumes are different.
@@AcousticFields Thank you for your quick answer. I realise my questions were quite broad, but would be interested in hearing more about the (frequency) impact on the depth of absorption panels in future videos
Are there circumstances you would start with the stage walls up front first? Seems like most places I see need that first with high spl on the stage.
What are your objectives? Managing energy in the FOH with a band would be low-frequency focused. The other parts of the church would be reflection or reverberation management.
This is helpful 👍
Forwarding this to a couple of churches.
brilliant buddy:)
We have all but given up on churches. After 316 proposals and lots of work effort to achieve the Rt-30/60 goals, there is no money for the required treatment, no space to treat, and absolutely no understanding of what needs to be done. They are ripe to be taking advantage of and mainy have been.
In the beginning there was THE WORD! Tell that to the architects!!
Good thought. It is amazing to me how little architects know about absorption, diffusion, and the most critical, noise transmission. I see structures designed everyday that will not reduce enough energy transmitted from noise sources to the rooms to match the room usage. Then, after the structure is built, people complain they can't hear themselves think.
@@AcousticFields It's been a lot of years, but the architecture majors I knew were only required to take one 100-level physics class, and it didn't involve calculus (which they also didn't have take, just algebra 102 or similar). I could be remembering it wrong though. Decades ago.
Hi. Thank you so much for your educational videos! I have 2 questions if you don't mind
1) Am I correct assuming diffusers do not change reverberation times in a room?
2) Why do you not recommend diffusers on side walls in 2ch listening setup?
Thank you.
EDIT: Ok, I think I found the answer for first question: "We must manage the Rt-60 times within our rooms before we introduce sound diffusion in small rooms. Diffusion added to a small room with high reverberation times will make the room sound worse. *It will increase the Rt-60 times* when our goal is to lower them." in www.acousticfields.com/sound-diffusion-in-small-rooms/
P, Diffusers can increase Rt-30 times. Sidewall diffusion produces image shift if not done properly.
The worst ones are the ones that think it's OK to turn the volume up so loud you can't hear the person standing next to you talk, or your own voice for that matter.
S, Increasing amplitude will only make the issue worse. It is too much energy that is causing the problem.
@@AcousticFields
Despite your vast knowledge, experience and credibility; I honestly don't think people like that would pay you any attention.
"Love your neighbor as yourself" should be more than sufficient reason to not turn the volume up that loud. They disregard that by claiming it's a personal preference which I agree with.
Their preference is to make a lot of excessive noise under the pretense of praising God.
My preference is to not end up with more ear damage in my old age than I already suffer from. Needless to say, I won't attend a church that does that.
@@AcousticFields I literally told the church I played at, “buying more speakers isnt gonna fix the issue” the MD responded with “Its a sound board issue”
I said “The more sound that is being reverberated, is eventually gonna create more chances for feedback”
They said “Its not gonna work” I was gonna say “You havent even tried”
But I gave up and said “Ok”
God may speak to us individually but the preacher needs acoustics to be in order.
S, Agreed. However, older members can not hear speech or music and when they can not hear the spoken or musical word, they do not attend. We have treated many churches and in every case attendance has increased.