Quick Important Comment: You do not need to rotate the drums in the Tower to clear the skulls at the end of the game. They are all right behind the seals. Just half-slide up each remaining seal and the skulls will tumble out. Thanks for the review.
You know that everyone at Restoration had to be anxiously awaiting the release of this particular review! Excellent game by the way! I really enjoyed it, though as was mentioned by a reviewer, our game did last a bit too long and was anticlimactic at the end. It was partly our fault for a setup mistake by placing the wrong monster in one of the locations. It would be nice if there was a way to review the game state during the game to make sure that the board and the computer are on the same page. Regardless, I love this game and Restoration games. Keep it up! 👍
What is the warranty on the electronic parts of the game? Is the tower's electronic parts replaceable/repairable? Is the app open source? Does the app collect personal information? Does it connect remotely to a server? What happens to the game if those server/service are retired/sunset?
@@albertfajarito1 Restoration has stated if support ever stops (there is no indication that it would, they have also stated it's their intention to keep up support) they will definitely make it open source.
I really like the way Chris teaches. Not too overwhelming in detail, but not too "shallow" either. I was able to understand what the game is about and what turns look like without it feeling complicated.
This game was totally worth the money. Super cool and fun. Solo mode is also a blast. I recommend solo play on gritty mode. I hope this game gets future scenarios and support
I'm seeing a lot of weird flak directed at Chris and Wendy "only" giving 7+ ratings. I just want to share that I've enjoyed you thoroughly as additions to TDT including this 4 Squares. You strike me as omni-gamers just like the rest of the crew, and I've particularly been meaning to request more Wendy. Now seems like a perfect time to finally make my plea: More Wendy, please and thank you!!
OMG! I was thinking about getting a lazy Susan for that exact reason and AI just read your comment! Great minds think alike! Hahahah! I was searching for a 24 inch one so it can hold the whole board. Do you use a smaller or a larger one?
Chris - hopefully a helpful suggestion: Before you launch into how to play a game, please provide an overview of the game's objectives (What are players trying to accomplish?). After watching you push iPad buttons for nearly 10 minutes, I still had no idea. Thank you
Hey Dan, I appreciate you watching. I totally agree with you, however Return to Dark Tower is a scenario-based game so each scenario means you are tryingto accomplish something different. At 02:10 I make brief mention that you choose which main objective you'll be taking on, represented by the main story standee on the map. Sorry if it was hard to catch.
I am a huge fan of the original game from when I was a kid and still own a working copy that me and my friends play about once a year. I hope that at some point there’s like a “retro mode” that let you play something more similar to the old school game. That being said, this new implementation looks amazing just like everything else restoration does and I can’t wait for my copy to arrive
They didn't mention, but there is a competitive mode that is a bit more similar to the original play mode. There is also a retro sounds mode that has all of the original sounds.
Played the original constantly back in 81-82'. No big deal now but a huge step up for board games at the time. Been looking forward to this one for years and it's the only game I'm really interested in this year,well maybe Frosthaven but that may not come out. Just bought a copy of the game at a pretty price off eBay. Sadly this may end up being one of those games like Eldervale that's going to be really hard to find. That tower ain't cheep boys and girls although it is very cool. I can also see little touches of Gloomhaven since Isaac Childres did help out.
I’m very interested in the competitive mode and how that differs in feel. I’m hoping at least some of you try it out and follow-up. Personally, I’m far more likely to want to play this competitively (I think).
My copy just arrived yesterday. Have only played it once (solo) so far, but I enjoyed it. I do have the expansion for it, but didn't add the new content yet. I would be curious if any of you played the original game.
@@petergross7235 I believe you're correct, and I don't have a lot of experience with this game or company, but I would think that people who played the original would still like to know what that experience is like.
@@VaultBoy13 In fairness, between 8 main goals, 8 adversaries, two play modes, and two difficulty settings, there are too many permutations for a reviewer to realistically do. There are so many new games to review these days. I don't begrudge anyone just playing a few times.
I'm curious how this qualifies for the Seal of Excellence when the highest score was in 8.5 and the three other scores were all lower. Just curious. Happy backer here.
Because let's say me (Tom) reviewed the game by myself. I would give it the Seal of Excellence and you wouldn't blink. And that happens all the time! If everything went by the group consensus, almost no games would get a Seal of anything. But if it helps, both of my daughters give it an 8.5 also.
Nice review!. I'm waiting for my copy (it probably arrives in the next couple of days). I love the design of it, and i get why is expensive (i'll probably be my last board gamig buy for this year, because budget). But anyway!. I don't regret the money spent. It looks fantastic!.
I am very interested on this one. But one thing really makes me on the fence, as board games in general you can play them until (probably) forever, but with this tech and app implementation, would this going to be a problem years years after? Let say, for the next 10-20 years. I would love the game can still be played with my children or even grandchildren, a bit silly but that it is.
This very concern was actually addressed (endlessly) in the original Kickstarter campaign. Their final word to assuage these concerns was to say, that if Restoration Games goes under, or any other sort of thing like that, that they would make the "app" open source, and therefore make it free and available to the board game community to maintain, and reimplement however they want. If the other concern is simply the tower itself going bad as a bit of machinery--well... you have the same issue in theory with the original Dark Tower game, and many of those still seem to be running 30+ years on.
Device operating system emulators will be a thing soon enough. I'd bet anything I own, that probably ten years from now, you'll be able to emulate any operating system form any year in order to be able to run old apps.
Hmmm, I'm sure I'll still love my copy when it comes but it is a little worrying that it may not play out as randomly as I once thought. Tom pointing out that you can use meta to position your hero that's strongest to a specific enemy type sounds both good and bad, replay-wise. Also, I absolutely get the complaint of having to dig through cards when a game requires you to have a specific win condition. That's an absolute slog and can even be a game-killer as a barrier to getting it to the table. Hopefully these just end up being outweighed by the experience, which I'm fairly confident it will. Great points; thanks for the review!
It's the Villainous problem. Even with the card cycling the character may be able to do, it's really uneven when it can be the first card you draw or the last.
@@VaultBoy13 To clarify, the treasure cycling is only one of the main goals you can choose. And even then, there are quests and events that let you dig for the treasure you need. But if you don't like that one, there are eight other main goals to choose from.
@@VaultBoy13 Oh god, I know exactly which Villain you’re talking about and that character is terrible. We never play with them for that exact reason. Terrible balance IMO.
At 02:30 I mention this. First the Banner effect happens. Then in any order: 1 move action, 1 Heroic action, 1 reinforcement action. Players can also interrupt movement with heroic/reinforce actions then finish movement.
I only want reviewers who like this type of game to review this game to reinforce my purchase bias. I unfortunately cannot form my own opinions based on watching the rules breakdown and gameplay explanations. I certainly cannot play it myself and make up my mind. Great review guys! Hopefully we get some more reviews on the expansions/scenarios.
The tower should be the most important component in the game, but it's not! It's the app! The more a board game goes digital, the less and less the physical components actually matter.
Mine finally arrived... I've played it now three times, with each game being more enjoyable than the last. Went all in on the Kickstarter and while my wallet may regret this, I myself do not. It's great fun. The one--and so far only--thing I would change about it is the glyphs in the tower. They have a stenciled plastic cutout look to them, and some nice shiny artwork (like the original!) would have been appreciated. Also there are a number of positions that don't seem to be used at all, which makes me wonder if more effects could've been incorporated rather than ONLY using the glyphs. At any rate, I'd give it a 9 based on my initial plays, due to many of the same things Tom mentioned; only time will tell as to its staying power.
Our first play got butts kicked, a couple triggers got everyone to 2 corruption and then a building was destroyed and someone got a third, I wish there was a mode where you can kill off that player and continue to try to win with the rest but everyone wanted to play again immediately :)
This game was one of the very first Kickstarters to catch my eye. The visual appeal blew my mind. I didn’t back it but eventually preordered what is essentially the all-in pledge. Since then, I’ve had huge buyer’s remorse thinking I wouldn’t enjoy the game. This review actually helped me realize this may have a place in my collection after all. I like the variety, the advantages thing does sound very cool, and I didn’t know about the dungeon thing. I’m excited again. PS - I also can’t stand the look of the box. Absolutely hate the two tone top and bottom. Wish it was black on black, maybe purple for the shoulder. I think it looks really tacky. Disappointing given the look of the box in the draft photos on the campaign looked very different. At the end of the day a little bit minor, but still disappointing to me.
Quite a few gameplay differences from the original. Not a fan of the blutooth. I like the old style where everything was in the tower. Thought sure the tower was gonna have a screen on it. That being said, the old game was a family favorite so I'm still going to buy it and hope for the best.
8 lb Vacuum!!! LOL!!!......Chris...so on point....and now people want to hear about the game mechanisms!!! To all the people who are like the price is too high. You can't make Dark Tower without the mechanical tower. It would be different game then. The new Descent is a video game but, people love it and it is MSRP $175. Not for me but, embrace the love of the hobby and if your money doesn't quite meet the love for the game Dark Tower then I guess you weren't going to buy it anyway.
I am so torn. Maybe I took what they said wrong, but aside from Tom it sounds like the game is awesome to look at, they had fun playing it, but it was not something they feel much of a need or desire to play again unless they wanted to pull it out to show off the bling factor. Makes me feel like it's not a bad game, but also not good enough to be a coop they keep coming back to over other games. I would hate to spend $180 for a game that's fun for 5 or less games and then I really have no desire to come back to it unless I wanted to show off its bling.....Trying to decide to preorder this or Just back Marvel Zombies for $130. On the bright side, I already tried and like Zombicide so not really risking anything. I did not originally back because I thought it looked like a version of Pandemic. Such a hard choice, take the risk and hope I am of Tom's opinion or walk away even though I want to try it because of what I understood the others to be saying (even though they gave it high marks). Edit: I really do dislike the box. I got rid of Lords of Waterdeep because the box was annoying visually and would not stay shut. This one visually looks fine, hopefully it stays shut stored vertically.
It definitely stays shut stored vertically, the overlap is about two inches deep. Additionally, the interior storage has lids for the blisters that keep things contained (unlike Lords, one of the few games that we store horizontally).
Kind of surprised no one talked about the App base for the game. This allows the company to provide extra content without actually needing to sell you anything else. Or the fact that they could improve on aspects of it on the fly.
Wow! (28:14) Dissing the OG Dark Tower game is just not cool, considering it's why this overwrought future paperweight even exists. Unlike these 4 toads, I was there. I owned and played the original and often! It was one of the hardest to get X-Mas presents of 1981 but my dad came through. It was before its time, which is why you get to sit here and say how primitive you think it was. AND, it was designed, targeted and marketed to children, even though adults found themselves playing it too....because it was just that cool! And even though I was already in my 30's, and my original copy had long since been discarded, it was the first thing I ever bought on ebay back in 1998, for the very reasonable price of $56. Now they go for $500 on ebay but I'll never sell. And yes, in my family we still drag it out of its dusty box at least once a year...because it's still just that cool!
Referring to us as toads and the new tower as an overwrought future paperweight shows you probably should have waited a few minutes before typing out this comment.
Looks cool, but it bothers me that it's light on story. Like the main game it doesn't bother me, it's not too different from something like Castle Panic, just the inverse. But I feel like the dungeon crawls were a pointless addition. You randomly pick rooms for no rhyme or reason. I would have expected more story telling to go with that to help you decide which way to go. As it is, it just looks like busy work.
I get it. That's my reaction to Sleeping Gods. A bunch of random tasks that don't really add up to anything that matters. If you want story get Oathsworn or Role Player Adventures.
The lapel mic was 'windy' noise SFX. I have the original MB game. I didn't back the KS. My FLGS will have this. This is helpful. But I'll have to watch more videos. The artwork and design is nice. I would venture a guess the original's speaker is louder than this ones based on what I've heard and your comments. It also sounds like the app doesn't make as much noise as I'd think so using a blue tooth speaker with the iPad might not make a huge effect. You can't beat the huge D batteries & 3-volt motor rotating plastic gears lol
I really look foreward to the day they do a punlisher/ designer .. top list... Best of blue Orange , or pandasaurus.. or The guy zee likes... Like essentials top 3 top 5 top 10.. based on catalouge..
I had the original Dark Tower game, and I could kick my own ass for getting rid of it, though I still have the Dark Tower itself and it still works. I dunno, this looks like a pale comparison to the original. Where's the pageantry? Where's the fluttering banners? I still have ne memories, I guess.
Am I a curmudgeon if I really hate what they did with this game? I was born in 1991 and so this game was already very old when I played it, but my friends and I played it dozens and dozens of times from 5th-7th grade. My uncle was letting us borrow it and eventually took it back. Worst day of my life lol I loved the simplicity of the original game, the chip tune music, the anticipation of the rotating column. Dang it, I’m a curmudgeon aren’t I. And I’m only 30!🤣😋
Curtis, I agree. I was lucky to have played the original in 1986ish. Companies these days are forced to make A good game "better" and lots of times ruining the spirit of the original version.
@@bz3086 you said it perfectly! The spirit of the game. Even though we are miles apart, if I were to get those old friends of mine together to play this game, who never were and never became board gamers… they would not be into it at all
Have you tried playing it or watching a play through of the original now. I thought the same until getting a chance to take a look at it now after so many years... the original was not as great as my memory of it.
@@justanerd1138 fair point, some things are better left as memories haha I watched a about an hour of the dice tower play through and just wasn’t very interested personally. I last played Dark Tower in 2015 with a friend who bought it on eBay from my recommendation and we admittedly had a blast. Only issue is now the tower no longer works . I’m not saying the game mechanisms were mind blowing to us in 2015 but we had fun even with the comparatively slow gameplay to modern games
These game designers seemed to have completely missed what made the Dark Tower special. When I played the original back in the day, my friends and I were on the edge of our seats wondering what the Tower would do to us. We hardly took our eyes off it. For the new version, it's about yet another app. The new Tower doesn't do much at all. It doesn't even have any real visuals! It could have been designed with small displays and high quality sound. It could have been upgraded with voice acting, animations and any number of improvements... but no. They really missed the boat here.
As long as people keep paying these prices for games, games will continue to be very expensive. I now do most of my game shopping at the graveyard of many expensive Kickstarters, the local game swap
The tower is very cool, BUT once your kid drops it on the floor 1 time and it breaks. You cannot play this game anymore. And if it happens from now in 5 years, you cannot find a replacement for the broken tower.....
Setup takes a little bit of time but tear down is a BREEZE. I really enjoyed the game and can't wait to play it with some friends. I agree with a few of their points: *audio from the tower isn't great *its weird it doesn't release any skulls from the tower at the end. It could thematically represent the corruption being removed from the tower at the end of the game or somwthing... *I wish there was more flavor text on the character cards, especially the main heroes *I wish they had a first game walthrough or something to help teach the game *OH and I wish the virtues flipped vertically instead of horizontally
You lost me at "App". I know that this is the trend now but I find that app driven games really pull me out of the experience. For me I want to play an App or a board game, not both. This is just my personal preference. Thanks for the review.
Not much onto board games that require an app. The app will eventually outdate and a board game should BE a board game. A board game is NOT a video game on a phone or tablet. Total bummer. I love the original.
Still hoping for an actual reprint of the original. It could be done at a small fraction of the cost, too, with the tower in the center just basically being a phone/tablet holder. It could have 2 modes... one an exact copy of the original, and one with some new mechanics to bring it up to modern gaming standards (but still _much_ closer to the original than this one).
Dang, kinda disappointed it has an app. Not saying the game isn't good. Just wishing board games could be board games. I like the idea of turning off the computer and tv. Of putting away the ever dominant iPad and phones and just having a game night. Wish video games would stay as video games and board games stay board games.
Wow... The Dark Tower itself seems utterly incidental. The Tower should be the absolute star of the show! Instead, they clearly made the app the star of the show. I'll pass.
@@VaultBoy13 for the price, the old one was better. By far. But hey, why not pay extra for an overproduced Pez dispenser. Oh..but...it does have red lights on it....
@@bernan1 Your clouded by nostalgia. Ah the old one is so much better becuase it had the buttons on the tower instead of your phone. Everything the old one did the new one does better.
The reviews in a nutshell: If you have kids: this will be a hit with them, and it won't be boring for you - with the first few times being quite fun. If your an adult without kids: you'll have fun playing it 1 or 2 times and then never touch again except to show it off to other people. The review presented here is strange because the scores don't properly represent what they're saying about the game.... unless they are reviewing this game as a kid's game. Then the scores make sense.
I don’t think this is really a kids game given the theme and that a game can be up to 2 hours. Other coops would probably work better such as Adventure Tactics.
Not to be a contradictory internet person, but I think your summary is misleading. I think the more accurate summary is that they argue the game is a bit lighter than it may present itself. I think you can unintentionally appear to be "gatekeeping" if you equate a game's weight with being "for kids". I play Lacerda games and A Feast for Odin, but I also really enjoy lighter games like Dominion or Point Salad. That doesn't mean I'm playing "kiddie games" by any stretch. Did Tom play it with his kids? Yeah. Does Roy feel that the game is best as a "show-off" piece? Yeah. But I fear you've conflated the two ideas and summarized it as: only kids would find it fun for more than a couple of times--which I just don't think is what anyone (even Roy) is intending to say. I also think in 4-Square reviews they can't help but prioritize critiques so that they feel that they've done their job as game critics. But of course, simply identifying criticisms isn't any more objective than only identifying a game's strengths. But, you are right, the net effect from this can be that there is more time spent critiquing a game than praising it, even if they have mostly positive feelings toward it.
Thanks for the review. Restoration does it again. Take a classic game and update it with overproduction and lackluster gameplay. Dollars successfully saved.
Lol, your bananas if you think the original is even close to being as good a game as this. It was fun and novel at the time, but in no way does it hold up to a modern boardgame.
@@mahuloq7562 the old one players actually interacted with the tower in the middle of the board. The new one the tower is insignificant, except for the extra price.
Long winded review that could have easily been fixed with a lazy susan. If you're accustomed to heavy euros then have them review this - it's already being looked at with more scrutiny and not a fair shake - Roy and Tom were spot on. The game is awesome for what it's meant to be. People looking for something way more involved should keep an open mind for what this company's mission statement is - it's their company name.
@@RzorFox huh? They’re trying to see on the other side of the board that’s hidden behind the tower. Is a lazy Susan going to make it transparent? This doesn’t make any sense at all.
@@utahman06 I'm assuming they are talking about putting the entire thing, board and tower, on one of them. Which has its advantages and disadvantages, but I wouldn't say it's necessary at all.
Wow....such a waste of the main feature of the whole game. The tower is reduced to the equivalent of a Pez dispenser. Color me disappointed. The original one people interacted with the tower..for pretty much everything. You waited for that random result for the tower to spit it out. Brigands!--something you always loved to see when struggling around the board. I guess the app is doing that work now, but then...why the tower? Especially something that big and way overproduced(given its function)? I can see that the stories/scenarios might be cool, but an oversized Pez dispenser really makes this game much more overpriced than what it should be. What was once a gimmick, but a cool gimmick that really worked in emersion of the game...is now basically a paperweight riding on nostalgia. Take the tower out and there are better games out there doing what this is trying to do, without the overproduction (and added cost due to the overproduction) Hard pass. Not even in consideration. Get the old one if you can find it and it works.
Yes! The more a board game goes digital, the less and less the physical components actually matter! Obviously the tower should be the most important component in the game, but it's not! It's the app!
I'd consider trying this were it not for the absolute cringefest that is the plastic tower with shit sound effects. I don't have the nostalgia so it does nothing for me.
No offense to Chris and Wendy (both of whom we love) but the more euro players seem like an odd choice for this VERY Ameritrashy game. Mike, Killmila and Roy, would seem like the ones who would like it best.
1. While we love crunchy euros, that's not exclusively what we play. 2. I'd argue this has more in common with Pandemic style co-op games than a lot of Ameritrash.
@@thedicetower Sure, but you have many times said the person who likes a game best reviews it. And sure, that probably shouldn't apply as much in a 4 squares review where differing opinions are more important.
@@DTChrisYi Of course, and I don't mean to sound there was anything "wrong" in You and Wendy's review. They was excellent, Dark Tower just seems like "Mike" game for instance. And sure you almost certainly right about it being Pandemic-like, as I haven't gotten to play it since my Kickstarter copy still hasn't come in (supposedly it has something to do with ordering the mat with it).
@@Ras137 Thanks, and no offense taken. There's times where there's more people who would be good in the review than the for slots available. Wendy and I aren't in the Terraforming Mars Ares Expedition review for example, even though we enjoy the original game more than several people who were in the review, but sometimes a certain mix of folks works out right for one reason or other.
Quick Important Comment: You do not need to rotate the drums in the Tower to clear the skulls at the end of the game. They are all right behind the seals. Just half-slide up each remaining seal and the skulls will tumble out. Thanks for the review.
Hey Dice Tower, Restoration Games is watching you. Lol
You know that everyone at Restoration had to be anxiously awaiting the release of this particular review! Excellent game by the way! I really enjoyed it, though as was mentioned by a reviewer, our game did last a bit too long and was anticlimactic at the end. It was partly our fault for a setup mistake by placing the wrong monster in one of the locations. It would be nice if there was a way to review the game state during the game to make sure that the board and the computer are on the same page. Regardless, I love this game and Restoration games. Keep it up! 👍
The very first Kickstarter I ever pledged and one I still haven't received unfortunately.
What is the warranty on the electronic parts of the game?
Is the tower's electronic parts replaceable/repairable?
Is the app open source? Does the app collect personal information? Does it connect remotely to a server?
What happens to the game if those server/service are retired/sunset?
@@albertfajarito1 Restoration has stated if support ever stops (there is no indication that it would, they have also stated it's their intention to keep up support) they will definitely make it open source.
I was hesitant to watch this review before receiving my copy but now I am even more excited! Thanks all!
I really like the way Chris teaches. Not too overwhelming in detail, but not too "shallow" either. I was able to understand what the game is about and what turns look like without it feeling complicated.
This game was totally worth the money. Super cool and fun. Solo mode is also a blast. I recommend solo play on gritty mode.
I hope this game gets future scenarios and support
Need to get a lazy-susan to spin the board so the tower doesn't get in the way.
Awesome job guys, thanks for your thoughts.
Eric Summerer reported that the batteries drained quite quickly when he played it. Having a supply of good rechargeables sounds sensible here.
I'm seeing a lot of weird flak directed at Chris and Wendy "only" giving 7+ ratings. I just want to share that I've enjoyed you thoroughly as additions to TDT including this 4 Squares. You strike me as omni-gamers just like the rest of the crew, and I've particularly been meaning to request more Wendy. Now seems like a perfect time to finally make my plea: More Wendy, please and thank you!!
I’ve played a few times with my daughter and we love it. We use a lazy Susan to make it easier to see all the areas. Works great!
OMG! I was thinking about getting a lazy Susan for that exact reason and AI just read your comment! Great minds think alike! Hahahah! I was searching for a 24 inch one so it can hold the whole board. Do you use a smaller or a larger one?
industrious susan?
@@athanasiospetsas9367 It’s a medium size. Smaller than the board.
@@athanasiospetsas9367 21" is about as big as I can find so far, but I am thinking the same as you.
@@cathyzampogna1200 And is it that ok or you think bigger would be better?
Just bought this after playing it at Dice Tower East last year. So excited!!!
I like the fact that they can patch the app to change/improve it based on the feedback like the counting of Advantages.
I'm glad Tom's still on the table, because I trust his opinion.
I'm looking forward to playing this, for sure. By the way, the graphic design and illustrations in this game look *amazing.*
They are awesome! Hope we see more work from this artist.
Ya the art and graphics are top notch. Was hoping Zee would be on this one since he tends to bring those things up a lot. Oh well.
I'm glad I've ordered it. Can't wait to get it. Great review.
Chris - hopefully a helpful suggestion: Before you launch into how to play a game, please provide an overview of the game's objectives (What are players trying to accomplish?). After watching you push iPad buttons for nearly 10 minutes, I still had no idea. Thank you
Hey Dan, I appreciate you watching. I totally agree with you, however Return to Dark Tower is a scenario-based game so each scenario means you are tryingto accomplish something different. At 02:10 I make brief mention that you choose which main objective you'll be taking on, represented by the main story standee on the map. Sorry if it was hard to catch.
@@DTChrisYi Thanks, Chris. Yes, it would have been better to highlight that and to further explain what the scenarios entail. Best wishes
I am a huge fan of the original game from when I was a kid and still own a working copy that me and my friends play about once a year. I hope that at some point there’s like a “retro mode” that let you play something more similar to the old school game. That being said, this new implementation looks amazing just like everything else restoration does and I can’t wait for my copy to arrive
They didn't mention, but there is a competitive mode that is a bit more similar to the original play mode. There is also a retro sounds mode that has all of the original sounds.
Forgive the late comment, but there's also a cute Easter egg in the Settings-Sound menu: the volume goes to eleven. LOL!
Played the original constantly back in 81-82'. No big deal now but a huge step up for board games at the time. Been looking forward to this one for years and it's the only game I'm really interested in this year,well maybe Frosthaven but that may not come out. Just bought a copy of the game at a pretty price off eBay. Sadly this may end up being one of those games like Eldervale that's going to be really hard to find. That tower ain't cheep boys and girls although it is very cool. I can also see little touches of Gloomhaven since Isaac Childres did help out.
I’m very interested in the competitive mode and how that differs in feel. I’m hoping at least some of you try it out and follow-up. Personally, I’m far more likely to want to play this competitively (I think).
My copy just arrived yesterday. Have only played it once (solo) so far, but I enjoyed it. I do have the expansion for it, but didn't add the new content yet.
I would be curious if any of you played the original game.
Love the Yi pair. Could the tree creatures be represented by Tolkiens? Or must they be tokens?
I can't wait for this to come to my door!
I love my copy I'm so excited to get the second expansion as it will add even more character options.
Still waiting on mine to arrive. Sigh… Endlessly waiting. 😳
The review didn’t seem to match the scores they gave. Felt a little more generous.
Right?! An 8 from Roy then he says he'd probably only get it out to show new players rather than play it multiple times.
Not a fan of the paper playerboards. Don’t know why they didn’t go with a thicker cardboard.
I'm surprised they didn't talk about the competitive mode. Isn't that the mode based off the original game?
The game was designed mainly as a co-op in this new version if I am not mistaken, someone will no doubt correct me if I am.
@@petergross7235 I believe you're correct, and I don't have a lot of experience with this game or company, but I would think that people who played the original would still like to know what that experience is like.
Yeah, it kind of makes this only half a review.
@@VaultBoy13 In fairness, between 8 main goals, 8 adversaries, two play modes, and two difficulty settings, there are too many permutations for a reviewer to realistically do. There are so many new games to review these days. I don't begrudge anyone just playing a few times.
@@VaultBoy13 hopefully they mention it on some level during the week in review.
I'm curious how this qualifies for the Seal of Excellence when the highest score was in 8.5 and the three other scores were all lower. Just curious. Happy backer here.
Because let's say me (Tom) reviewed the game by myself. I would give it the Seal of Excellence and you wouldn't blink. And that happens all the time! If everything went by the group consensus, almost no games would get a Seal of anything. But if it helps, both of my daughters give it an 8.5 also.
Nice review!. I'm waiting for my copy (it probably arrives in the next couple of days).
I love the design of it, and i get why is expensive (i'll probably be my last board gamig buy for this year, because budget). But anyway!. I don't regret the money spent. It looks fantastic!.
I like the box like that, though could use its name on the tan section
March is not long way off, but it feels as if it is years away.
Should be arriving soon. I didn't realise the four squares wasn't solely Room, Zee, Mike and Chris
I am very interested on this one. But one thing really makes me on the fence, as board games in general you can play them until (probably) forever, but with this tech and app implementation, would this going to be a problem years years after? Let say, for the next 10-20 years. I would love the game can still be played with my children or even grandchildren, a bit silly but that it is.
This very concern was actually addressed (endlessly) in the original Kickstarter campaign. Their final word to assuage these concerns was to say, that if Restoration Games goes under, or any other sort of thing like that, that they would make the "app" open source, and therefore make it free and available to the board game community to maintain, and reimplement however they want.
If the other concern is simply the tower itself going bad as a bit of machinery--well... you have the same issue in theory with the original Dark Tower game, and many of those still seem to be running 30+ years on.
Device operating system emulators will be a thing soon enough. I'd bet anything I own, that probably ten years from now, you'll be able to emulate any operating system form any year in order to be able to run old apps.
I think with all these app games you just don't throw away your old tablet. Keep it around for running all those games.
Another solid review.
I've been looking to get a tablet for games. Which model iPad did you use? Looked crisp
Hmmm, I'm sure I'll still love my copy when it comes but it is a little worrying that it may not play out as randomly as I once thought. Tom pointing out that you can use meta to position your hero that's strongest to a specific enemy type sounds both good and bad, replay-wise. Also, I absolutely get the complaint of having to dig through cards when a game requires you to have a specific win condition. That's an absolute slog and can even be a game-killer as a barrier to getting it to the table. Hopefully these just end up being outweighed by the experience, which I'm fairly confident it will. Great points; thanks for the review!
It's the Villainous problem. Even with the card cycling the character may be able to do, it's really uneven when it can be the first card you draw or the last.
@@VaultBoy13 To clarify, the treasure cycling is only one of the main goals you can choose. And even then, there are quests and events that let you dig for the treasure you need. But if you don't like that one, there are eight other main goals to choose from.
@@VaultBoy13 Oh god, I know exactly which Villain you’re talking about and that character is terrible. We never play with them for that exact reason. Terrible balance IMO.
The app tracking advantages can be added in
I’m not sure if I missed it at the beginning of the explanation, but how many actions per turn do players get?
At 02:30 I mention this. First the Banner effect happens. Then in any order: 1 move action, 1 Heroic action, 1 reinforcement action. Players can also interrupt movement with heroic/reinforce actions then finish movement.
"I'm Jovelinia the warrrior Princess" - Tom Vasal...... (Another clip for the end of year blooper reel)
I would put it on a lazy susan.
Struggle with the price point as a negative in the review what is the price point, I missed it ?
I read somewhere its 180?
I only want reviewers who like this type of game to review this game to reinforce my purchase bias. I unfortunately cannot form my own opinions based on watching the rules breakdown and gameplay explanations. I certainly cannot play it myself and make up my mind. Great review guys! Hopefully we get some more reviews on the expansions/scenarios.
The tower should be the most important component in the game, but it's not! It's the app! The more a board game goes digital, the less and less the physical components actually matter.
You know the tower is a digital device, right?
Mine finally arrived... I've played it now three times, with each game being more enjoyable than the last. Went all in on the Kickstarter and while my wallet may regret this, I myself do not. It's great fun.
The one--and so far only--thing I would change about it is the glyphs in the tower. They have a stenciled plastic cutout look to them, and some nice shiny artwork (like the original!) would have been appreciated. Also there are a number of positions that don't seem to be used at all, which makes me wonder if more effects could've been incorporated rather than ONLY using the glyphs. At any rate, I'd give it a 9 based on my initial plays, due to many of the same things Tom mentioned; only time will tell as to its staying power.
Our first play got butts kicked, a couple triggers got everyone to 2 corruption and then a building was destroyed and someone got a third, I wish there was a mode where you can kill off that player and continue to try to win with the rest but everyone wanted to play again immediately :)
This game was one of the very first Kickstarters to catch my eye. The visual appeal blew my mind. I didn’t back it but eventually preordered what is essentially the all-in pledge. Since then, I’ve had huge buyer’s remorse thinking I wouldn’t enjoy the game. This review actually helped me realize this may have a place in my collection after all. I like the variety, the advantages thing does sound very cool, and I didn’t know about the dungeon thing. I’m excited again.
PS - I also can’t stand the look of the box. Absolutely hate the two tone top and bottom. Wish it was black on black, maybe purple for the shoulder. I think it looks really tacky. Disappointing given the look of the box in the draft photos on the campaign looked very different. At the end of the day a little bit minor, but still disappointing to me.
The Fireball had a worse issue, the box looked amazing, but was so flimsy it was worthless.
Quite a few gameplay differences from the original. Not a fan of the blutooth. I like the old style where everything was in the tower. Thought sure the tower was gonna have a screen on it. That being said, the old game was a family favorite so I'm still going to buy it and hope for the best.
how do I get my hands on a copy of this bad boy?
Retailer backers should start getting their mid-February through March. We'll have copies on our website after backers are fulfilled.
I'm with Wendy. Taken by itself it looks fun enough, but considering that price point...that's a no. It just doesn't seem to justify it mechanically.
8 lb Vacuum!!! LOL!!!......Chris...so on point....and now people want to hear about the game mechanisms!!!
To all the people who are like the price is too high. You can't make Dark Tower without the mechanical tower. It would be different game then. The new Descent is a video game but, people love it and it is MSRP $175. Not for me but, embrace the love of the hobby and if your money doesn't quite meet the love for the game Dark Tower then I guess you weren't going to buy it anyway.
I am so torn. Maybe I took what they said wrong, but aside from Tom it sounds like the game is awesome to look at, they had fun playing it, but it was not something they feel much of a need or desire to play again unless they wanted to pull it out to show off the bling factor. Makes me feel like it's not a bad game, but also not good enough to be a coop they keep coming back to over other games.
I would hate to spend $180 for a game that's fun for 5 or less games and then I really have no desire to come back to it unless I wanted to show off its bling.....Trying to decide to preorder this or Just back Marvel Zombies for $130. On the bright side, I already tried and like Zombicide so not really risking anything. I did not originally back because I thought it looked like a version of Pandemic. Such a hard choice, take the risk and hope I am of Tom's opinion or walk away even though I want to try it because of what I understood the others to be saying (even though they gave it high marks).
Edit: I really do dislike the box. I got rid of Lords of Waterdeep because the box was annoying visually and would not stay shut. This one visually looks fine, hopefully it stays shut stored vertically.
It definitely stays shut stored vertically, the overlap is about two inches deep. Additionally, the interior storage has lids for the blisters that keep things contained (unlike Lords, one of the few games that we store horizontally).
I wish they hadn't jacked up the price so much out of the KS. From $125 to $190. Ouch a 50% increase. I could stomach this a lot more at $125.
my problem with that is eventually that tower will break... then what...?
That’s where I’m at with the original lol
Then you get married, like Aragorn.
@@baroldalt312 There is a 2-year warranty on the Tower. After that, we can replace the Tower at cost.
@@baroldalt312 Dude, I've started a board game collection to counter the "Get Married" Card
Kind of surprised no one talked about the App base for the game. This allows the company to provide extra content without actually needing to sell you anything else. Or the fact that they could improve on aspects of it on the fly.
Wow! (28:14) Dissing the OG Dark Tower game is just not cool, considering it's why this overwrought future paperweight even exists. Unlike these 4 toads, I was there. I owned and played the original and often! It was one of the hardest to get X-Mas presents of 1981 but my dad came through. It was before its time, which is why you get to sit here and say how primitive you think it was. AND, it was designed, targeted and marketed to children, even though adults found themselves playing it too....because it was just that cool! And even though I was already in my 30's, and my original copy had long since been discarded, it was the first thing I ever bought on ebay back in 1998, for the very reasonable price of $56. Now they go for $500 on ebay but I'll never sell. And yes, in my family we still drag it out of its dusty box at least once a year...because it's still just that cool!
Referring to us as toads and the new tower as an overwrought future paperweight shows you probably should have waited a few minutes before typing out this comment.
Looks cool, but it bothers me that it's light on story. Like the main game it doesn't bother me, it's not too different from something like Castle Panic, just the inverse. But I feel like the dungeon crawls were a pointless addition. You randomly pick rooms for no rhyme or reason. I would have expected more story telling to go with that to help you decide which way to go. As it is, it just looks like busy work.
I get it. That's my reaction to Sleeping Gods. A bunch of random tasks that don't really add up to anything that matters. If you want story get Oathsworn or Role Player Adventures.
The lapel mic was 'windy' noise SFX. I have the original MB game. I didn't back the KS. My FLGS will have this. This is helpful. But I'll have to watch more videos. The artwork and design is nice. I would venture a guess the original's speaker is louder than this ones based on what I've heard and your comments. It also sounds like the app doesn't make as much noise as I'd think so using a blue tooth speaker with the iPad might not make a huge effect. You can't beat the huge D batteries & 3-volt motor rotating plastic gears lol
I really look foreward to the day they do a punlisher/ designer .. top list... Best of blue Orange , or pandasaurus.. or The guy zee likes... Like essentials top 3 top 5 top 10.. based on catalouge..
I had the original Dark Tower game, and I could kick my own ass for getting rid of it, though I still have the Dark Tower itself and it still works. I dunno, this looks like a pale comparison to the original. Where's the pageantry? Where's the fluttering banners? I still have ne memories, I guess.
Am I a curmudgeon if I really hate what they did with this game? I was born in 1991 and so this game was already very old when I played it, but my friends and I played it dozens and dozens of times from 5th-7th grade. My uncle was letting us borrow it and eventually took it back. Worst day of my life lol
I loved the simplicity of the original game, the chip tune music, the anticipation of the rotating column. Dang it, I’m a curmudgeon aren’t I. And I’m only 30!🤣😋
Curtis,
I agree. I was lucky to have played the original in 1986ish.
Companies these days are forced to make A good game "better" and lots of times ruining the spirit of the original version.
@@bz3086 you said it perfectly! The spirit of the game. Even though we are miles apart, if I were to get those old friends of mine together to play this game, who never were and never became board gamers… they would not be into it at all
Have you tried playing it or watching a play through of the original now. I thought the same until getting a chance to take a look at it now after so many years... the original was not as great as my memory of it.
@@justanerd1138 fair point, some things are better left as memories haha I watched a about an hour of the dice tower play through and just wasn’t very interested personally. I last played Dark Tower in 2015 with a friend who bought it on eBay from my recommendation and we admittedly had a blast. Only issue is now the tower no longer works . I’m not saying the game mechanisms were mind blowing to us in 2015 but we had fun even with the comparatively slow gameplay to modern games
These game designers seemed to have completely missed what made the Dark Tower special. When I played the original back in the day, my friends and I were on the edge of our seats wondering what the Tower would do to us. We hardly took our eyes off it. For the new version, it's about yet another app. The new Tower doesn't do much at all. It doesn't even have any real visuals! It could have been designed with small displays and high quality sound. It could have been upgraded with voice acting, animations and any number of improvements... but no. They really missed the boat here.
Isaac Childres worked on Dark Tower? No wonder Frosthaven is taking so long :P
As long as people keep paying these prices for games, games will continue to be very expensive. I now do most of my game shopping at the graveyard of many expensive Kickstarters, the local game swap
R&D on the tower + production isn't cheap.
@@alcovitch economy must be good, if a game costs more than my car payment or contributions to my 401k, there is an issue
@@theshogunstein6475 You should try to put more into your 401k, if you can.
@@jartree absolutely, much better investment
@@alcovitch If I want this game I will buy it went Restoration sells it at Target like they are with other games now
The tower is very cool, BUT once your kid drops it on the floor 1 time and it breaks.
You cannot play this game anymore. And if it happens from now in 5 years, you cannot find a replacement for the broken tower.....
Everything is just borrowed.
Yep.
Setup takes a little bit of time but tear down is a BREEZE. I really enjoyed the game and can't wait to play it with some friends.
I agree with a few of their points:
*audio from the tower isn't great
*its weird it doesn't release any skulls from the tower at the end. It could thematically represent the corruption being removed from the tower at the end of the game or somwthing...
*I wish there was more flavor text on the character cards, especially the main heroes
*I wish they had a first game walthrough or something to help teach the game
*OH and I wish the virtues flipped vertically instead of horizontally
Dice tower and Dark Tower, they do both "roll bones".
Innovation or the year.
Why does the "Final Thoughts" section start at 10:29 in a video just shy of 30 minutes long?
I was a huge fan of the 80s game, but 4 minutes into this explanation and I'm glazing over. It might be too complicated for this old lady.
lol .the 8 pound vacuum.
8lb vacuum! lol
You lost me at "App".
I know that this is the trend now but I find that app driven games really pull me out of the experience.
For me I want to play an App or a board game, not both. This is just my personal preference.
Thanks for the review.
The constant hissing noise during the overview is very distracting.
10:33 Waaaaaaaaaaaaay way before the dark dice tower -
THE bigggest thing in this game is the app..
(..and not everyone might likes it)
Not much onto board games that require an app. The app will eventually outdate and a board game should BE a board game. A board game is NOT a video game on a phone or tablet. Total bummer. I love the original.
Every time I see this game i am slightly disappointed, because my knee jerk reaction is that is has to do with the Stephen King Dark Tower.
Still hoping for an actual reprint of the original. It could be done at a small fraction of the cost, too, with the tower in the center just basically being a phone/tablet holder. It could have 2 modes... one an exact copy of the original, and one with some new mechanics to bring it up to modern gaming standards (but still _much_ closer to the original than this one).
So long as you knew the logic for the parts the tower computes, it'd be pretty to code. Then you'd just 3D print a tower that holds your phone.
Dang, kinda disappointed it has an app. Not saying the game isn't good. Just wishing board games could be board games. I like the idea of turning off the computer and tv. Of putting away the ever dominant iPad and phones and just having a game night. Wish video games would stay as video games and board games stay board games.
way to expensive :(
The original Dark Tower was expensive back in the day and would be about $175 if you adjust for inflation.
too much app interactions for me ... might just play a videogame instead ... hate apps in games that takes too much place
8 lb vacuum lol
Wow... The Dark Tower itself seems utterly incidental. The Tower should be the absolute star of the show! Instead, they clearly made the app the star of the show. I'll pass.
What would you have the tower do?
@@mahuloq7562 Probably one of those diehards that think the random number generator of the original is better.
@@VaultBoy13 Ya, the imagination is always cooler than reality, but in every way this is an upgrade on the original.
@@VaultBoy13 for the price, the old one was better. By far. But hey, why not pay extra for an overproduced Pez dispenser. Oh..but...it does have red lights on it....
@@bernan1 Your clouded by nostalgia. Ah the old one is so much better becuase it had the buttons on the tower instead of your phone. Everything the old one did the new one does better.
The reviews in a nutshell:
If you have kids: this will be a hit with them, and it won't be boring for you - with the first few times being quite fun.
If your an adult without kids: you'll have fun playing it 1 or 2 times and then never touch again except to show it off to other people.
The review presented here is strange because the scores don't properly represent what they're saying about the game.... unless they are reviewing this game as a kid's game. Then the scores make sense.
I don’t think this is really a kids game given the theme and that a game can be up to 2 hours. Other coops would probably work better such as Adventure Tactics.
Not to be a contradictory internet person, but I think your summary is misleading. I think the more accurate summary is that they argue the game is a bit lighter than it may present itself. I think you can unintentionally appear to be "gatekeeping" if you equate a game's weight with being "for kids". I play Lacerda games and A Feast for Odin, but I also really enjoy lighter games like Dominion or Point Salad. That doesn't mean I'm playing "kiddie games" by any stretch. Did Tom play it with his kids? Yeah. Does Roy feel that the game is best as a "show-off" piece? Yeah. But I fear you've conflated the two ideas and summarized it as: only kids would find it fun for more than a couple of times--which I just don't think is what anyone (even Roy) is intending to say.
I also think in 4-Square reviews they can't help but prioritize critiques so that they feel that they've done their job as game critics. But of course, simply identifying criticisms isn't any more objective than only identifying a game's strengths. But, you are right, the net effect from this can be that there is more time spent critiquing a game than praising it, even if they have mostly positive feelings toward it.
Cool. But this bein app dependent is a huge Achilles heel.
Thanks for the review. Restoration does it again. Take a classic game and update it with overproduction and lackluster gameplay. Dollars successfully saved.
Lol, your bananas if you think the original is even close to being as good a game as this. It was fun and novel at the time, but in no way does it hold up to a modern boardgame.
@@mahuloq7562 the old one players actually interacted with the tower in the middle of the board. The new one the tower is insignificant, except for the extra price.
It always bugs the crap out of me that reviewers (who may or may not have hacked the game) get their copies before those of us who actually did pay
Long winded review that could have easily been fixed with a lazy susan. If you're accustomed to heavy euros then have them review this - it's already being looked at with more scrutiny and not a fair shake - Roy and Tom were spot on. The game is awesome for what it's meant to be. People looking for something way more involved should keep an open mind for what this company's mission statement is - it's their company name.
What part could have been fixed with a lazy Susan?
@@utahman06 the not being able to see certain areas due to the size of the tower. You would just rotate the entire thing.
I don't think "get a lazy susan" is an easy fix. They aren't cheap or easy to store.
@@RzorFox huh? They’re trying to see on the other side of the board that’s hidden behind the tower. Is a lazy Susan going to make it transparent? This doesn’t make any sense at all.
@@utahman06 I'm assuming they are talking about putting the entire thing, board and tower, on one of them. Which has its advantages and disadvantages, but I wouldn't say it's necessary at all.
Wow....such a waste of the main feature of the whole game. The tower is reduced to the equivalent of a Pez dispenser. Color me disappointed.
The original one people interacted with the tower..for pretty much everything. You waited for that random result for the tower to spit it out. Brigands!--something you always loved to see when struggling around the board. I guess the app is doing that work now, but then...why the tower? Especially something that big and way overproduced(given its function)? I can see that the stories/scenarios might be cool, but an oversized Pez dispenser really makes this game much more overpriced than what it should be.
What was once a gimmick, but a cool gimmick that really worked in emersion of the game...is now basically a paperweight riding on nostalgia.
Take the tower out and there are better games out there doing what this is trying to do, without the overproduction (and added cost due to the overproduction)
Hard pass. Not even in consideration.
Get the old one if you can find it and it works.
Yes! The more a board game goes digital, the less and less the physical components actually matter! Obviously the tower should be the most important component in the game, but it's not! It's the app!
Oma PFirst!!
I'd consider trying this were it not for the absolute cringefest that is the plastic tower with shit sound effects. I don't have the nostalgia so it does nothing for me.
Sounds like you're a real hoot.
All to their own of course, but I just think the tower looks silly. Makes me feel it's a kids toy.
It's a board game. All the pieces look like toys, because they're toys.
No offense to Chris and Wendy (both of whom we love) but the more euro players seem like an odd choice for this VERY Ameritrashy game. Mike, Killmila and Roy, would seem like the ones who would like it best.
I guess I have people play games so we can get a variety of opinions, not people who "would like it best"
1. While we love crunchy euros, that's not exclusively what we play.
2. I'd argue this has more in common with Pandemic style co-op games than a lot of Ameritrash.
@@thedicetower Sure, but you have many times said the person who likes a game best reviews it. And sure, that probably shouldn't apply as much in a 4 squares review where differing opinions are more important.
@@DTChrisYi Of course, and I don't mean to sound there was anything "wrong" in You and Wendy's review. They was excellent, Dark Tower just seems like "Mike" game for instance. And sure you almost certainly right about it being Pandemic-like, as I haven't gotten to play it since my Kickstarter copy still hasn't come in (supposedly it has something to do with ordering the mat with it).
@@Ras137 Thanks, and no offense taken. There's times where there's more people who would be good in the review than the for slots available. Wendy and I aren't in the Terraforming Mars Ares Expedition review for example, even though we enjoy the original game more than several people who were in the review, but sometimes a certain mix of folks works out right for one reason or other.
This is an odd video game. i guess this is the the new toys to life line
It's an odd video. I don't know about the game.