Streaming DACs - What does more money buy you? Sharing what I've learnt on my audiophile adventure!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- #Streaming #hifi #audiophile
Hello everyone!
Not a review this week, instead a short experiential piece on streaming DACs and how they scale, including the kinds of differences you get when you spend more money on them! This doesn't cover every streaming DAC, and I'm sure you'll all have your own experiences, but I thought it would be helpful to share my own!
Enjoy the music! :-)
Follow us on Instagram: @small_room_audio
Tested using:
Atoll MA100 Power Amplifier
Luxman 595a Integrated Amplifier
PS Audio P12 powerplant
NAD C298 - Purifi power amp
Synthesis A50 Taurus - Integrated Tube Amp (KT88)
Audioquest Go 4 speaker cables
Atlas 4dd power cable
Supra Ethernet cable - บันเทิง
Nice roundup. A logical upgrade to the Bluesound Node is the NAD C658 - balanced outputs, better power supply - just a better piece with all the advantages of the BlueOS platform. Also, the Lindemann Limetree models - one is a streamer, the other is a streaming DAC. The Lindemann Limetree Network II by itself is a great streaming DAC - made even better when a linear power supply like a Plixir BDC is added to provide power to the Limetree.
Roon is an excellent way to control your streaming listening, I have had a lifetime membership for over five years. FREE upgrades, unlike other manufacturers.
Two notes on this one:
1. Yes you eagle eyed audiophiles, I did spell BluOS wrongly...
2. As per usual, I did this in one take, and I seem to have said the words 'streaming' and 'dac' A LOT. But handily, you can turn this video into a cheeky drinking game similar to the one you can play whilst listening to Roxanne by Sting and the Police. (PPS - In no way do I condone heavy drinking, please drink responsibly...crap, I best quit whilst I'm ahead!)
Very informative. Accesible! Which is a rare quality in hifi video waters. It shows proper understanding of the topic and a good knowledge of the audience. Thanks!
Thank you, that’s a lovely comment! 😊 Just had a new arrival, but more content coming once things settle down!
I own the Atoll MS120 and I was very happy with it but afterwards I combined it with a Topping D70s dac and this was a very noticeable upgrade. For the money I'm very happy with this combo 👍
i think the atoll dac deserves a proper review ,Thanks
Great discussion... So far, I'm loving the streaming DAC buzz and going to continue buying them until the near. I like having less separates (I do like a clean setup somewhat) and my system is fully active. In my opinion, I think it's easier to get synergy from them than separates. I'm eyeing the Argon Audio Solo for my next one despite not being available for the US. So import it is.
Enjoyable odyssey through the DAC/Streaming world. Thanks. I short-circuited the pre amp/power amp/DAC/streamer/all-in-one/speaker conundrum by buying the KEF LS50 Wireless ii - but I still enjoy stuff like this.
Thanks Alan 👍 Great active speaker choice as well 😃
Great to see you back. A very interesting piece - I have a 2021 NODE into a Creek IA into Martin Logan 35TXi and it sounds very good. Certainly the Atoll is very interesting but as you noted we lose the BluOS ecosystem. Really enjoy your reviews - and agree on the law of diminishing returns. Would love to see more reviews on Atoll products. Cheers from Australia
Thank you for the kind words! 😃 Hopefully have some more atoll equipment coming soon - impressed with what I’ve heard so far!
Hello, really enjoy your reviews. Very technical and informative but also very fun. Now I have the Herritage special and a Gato-150 in order. My dac is a Hugo2 and the streamer is an Optical Rendu. I believe you had a Chord sometime back. Very happy with the Dynaudio. I have the Focal Utopia headphones and I wanted something sweeter in the treble. The midrange of the Dynaudio is special. Your review helped me when I decided to get the Herritage a few months ago. Now after I get the amp, my Hugo 2 will be the weak link in the chain. I would love to have a more dimensional soundstage. Not sure what I will do, I am tempted to go to Mola Mola or Chord. It will take time though.
Thanks you 🙏 😃 My advice on expensive dacs would be to try a few before pulling the trigger - past the level of the Hugo they all tend to sound pretty great, the differences are more personal preference than ‘good’ or ‘bad’. I wonder when Chord will bring out the Dave2 with inbuilt Mscaler - that could be THE killer dac under £10k when it finally drops!
@@SmallRoomAudio Thanks for the advice. I will try doing so. By the way there is no speaker in the list of your constantly upgraded audio. Did I miss something? Thinking conspiratorially, do you have something in the works?? Hmm you probably have. :)
Great video! I think going a separate DAC and streamer would probably yield the best balance between functionality and sound. The zen stream is a fantastic sounding streamer. Just add your favourite DAC and you'll have a killer digital front end.
Thanks Neil! 😃 I’ll have to reach out to Ifi and give that one a go!
@@SmallRoomAudio make sure you use an upgraded power supply
I purchased the Graham LS6 for its rich mid range. I will only use it for streaming directly from the streaming services (I won’t have my own files). I am attracted to the Node even though my budget is higher just because, as a technophobe, my priority has to be ease and simplicity of use. Would the Node be sufficient to give me enough of the sound quality of the LS 6 (Especially if I add a good quality amplifier) or do I have to spend more money on the streamer at the risk of having a harder-to-use system. If so, any suggestions? (I know it’s a difficult question).Thanks for the good educational review.
It is rare to find good looking young people of our age in audiophile reviews! But man you're really doing a very good job. I have been building a small audiophile system for the past 3 years and along the path I have bought some of the gears that you've reviewed and very pleased to discover that your analysis match very accurately to my personal experiences, thanks for all the effort.
Thank you very much for the compliments! 👍 😃
Useful video 💯
Thank you 🙏 😊
Great review. Out of Dac’s you have reviewed which one has the same sound characteristics of the mola mola but more reasonable in price?
I wonder how the Atoll would compare to the Lumin D2?
Very interesting piece, thanks.
What I can't get my head around is how important is the streaming element and how important the dac. For instance I went with a Heos Link connected to a more expensive Topping D70 dac in the belief that the quality of the dac is more important than the streaming transport. Would I have got better bang for my buck by spending the same amount on an all in one streaming dac like the Cambridge CXN V2 for instance?
Thanks Alex 😊 Tricky one to answer as I haven’t reviewed the CXN, but it’s supposed to be very good value for money. In general I’d say the Dac is more important, but in an all-in-one you benefit from synergy which has been baked in by the manufacturer, which can often be more effective than separates. If you can speak to a friendly dealer, they might lend you a CXN to try out so you know for sure!
Nutcase money...yes. nutcase audiophile ...yes. i like both.
Haha great comment 👏 😂
Always interesting.
In your opinion, how would the Atol stack up against a Node 2i connected to a dac like a Denefrips?
Sorry to ask and I know it complicates what could be a simple streaming system. Then there’s the reclocker. Ha!
Cheers
The joys of HiFi - so many variables!! (but that’s half the fun right??!) I used to own a Terminator and that paired with a node would be better than the atoll - but also a lot more expensive, so back to diminishing returns!
Not sure if this has been already partially answered, but using Atoll and Node as streamers only to internal DAC of a Hegel amp, would there be a significant SQ difference between them or using them as transport only would not vary much? thank you
IMO Bluesound Node's strongest point is as a streamer and would combine very well with a Hegel amp. Later if you wanted to upgrade on the Hegel amp you could insert a specialist Dac like Musician Aquarius.
I do enjoy your take on hi fi. Which Atol DAC do you have? I went on the website but couldn’t find it.
My local dealer does Mola Mola and it is incredible. £10k is a lot though
The Dac/streamer was the MS120. The Mola gear is epic, but does come with a hefty price tag!
👍
Could a Bluesound Node and a 1000€ DAC "fight" with the Atoll?
Thank you for your time and work,,🍻😎👍👍
Thank you 🙏 In answer to the question, yes…and no! The Atoll does a fantastic job with ‘audiophile’ elements, like air, imaging and the sensation of space, but it can lack a little meat on the bones if it’s paired with a dryer amp/speaker combo. So it really depends on what you value most in the music presentation and what works with your synergy of setup. If it’s tone and organic fleshyness, a tube dac might be preferable, if you like detail look at a dac from Chord, and if you like a super clean sound you could pick something like the Topping D90se. Sorry I couldn’t be more definitive here - I believe audio is all about finding what works on a personal enjoyment level 👍
What would you say folks should expect going up the price range when it comes to just network transports? It's something that many say is an improvement but they are generally relaying their experience about a network transport+DAC in one unit.
My experience with pure streaming transports is mainly limited to equipment under £2k, but I’d love to try out some top end streaming gear to see if quality really jumps up, or if it’s only relatively small increments. Just need to convince some audio companies to send me some of their shiny transports!!
@@SmallRoomAudio Searching online, there seems to just be a mixture of opinions and it's difficult to strip away certain bias, buyer remorse, truths, etc.
It's actually pretty frustrating at times as I would like to make as best of an informed decision without having to exercise return policies with restocking fees.
There are other good options you could explore on different price points. The discontinued Google Chromecast Audio that you can still get used is a cheap good solution. The wiim mini is the best value streamer i know of. Very affordable and with excellent software and functionality. The next would be the Argon Audio Solo. All of these are cheaper than the Bluesound Node which right now has an (non offical but trustworthy) option to improve the power supply and with it its sound quality.
A WiiM mini is a great value device.
Make use of the bit perfect (up to 24 bit 192KHz) optical output into a better DAC and you'll probably murder any of the devices featured in this video for the money.
The wi-fi connection has been solid (as my twitchy router will allow), app is pretty good and it actually has a decent privacy policy...
He says as he's using the mobile TH-cam app(!)
I recently bought a WiiM pro but that still has some firmware bugs that are still to be ironed out.
I use a Google Chromecast into an Exogal comet DAC and it sounds great and really easy to use.
I also use a Melco N1 to stream Qobuz but that’s a much more expensive solution - although better priced second hand. However it is a very good option you have a load of CDs that you want to have stored on tap with your Qobuz or Tidal.
I worry about having a working app or even a device to run them on in 20 or 30 years.
IMO, it’s hard to beat the price/performance value of a PecanPi streamer from Orchard Audio
I’ve had nothing but problems with the Bluesound Node and dropouts with Spotify connect. I’m about ready to sell it and try something else.
that's not the problem with the device most of the times, but your own internet, its gonna be the same even after you changed. I have been using Bluesound power node and seldom has dropouts even after 1 year plus, if your home network is bad, just try to put a lan in and it will solve 99% of your dropout problem.
You must be using wifi. I had the same issue and I ran a ethernet cable to the node and now it's rock solid.
As others here mention, the WiiM Pro and Zen Stream should be included in the list. Holo May has a new, very worthwhile entry.
Budget high end entry:
iFi LAN iSilencer - $89.00
Allo Signature USBridge -$249.00
Schiit Modi+ DAC - $129.00
Total $437.00
The iFi connects to the Allo's ethernet port, Allo's clean USB out connects to the Modi+ USB input. Superb sound that IMO easily surpasses the Node.
Con: Volumio or MoOde vs BluOS. If Allo had the WiiM's OS it would match the BluOS user friendliness.
Toslink optical in $16 to Modius balanced out $229. (edit) The fight isn't against noise, rfi & emi. The fight is against the copper that propagates the noise.
Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Seems like because the Node has a digital output, you’d be better off getting the Node with the extra features and a higher end dedicated DAC rather than the Tabacki.
Why? The Tambaqui is universally regarded as one of, if not the, top-tier DAC in the world for sound quality. It's a superlative sound and measurements in the time and frequency domain are incredible and exacting, see the Stereophile report. If you have the money to spare, you would always go for the Tambaqui.
@@rustygates3367 Sorry, I think my point is that you could spend less and get more by not having to get a DAC with everything built in. You could, for example, get the Node and a Holo May for about half the cost of a Tambaqui and that’s one of the most highly-acclaimed DACs around. You could even pay a bit more for a Bricasti and still save a lot of money. Is the Tambaqui as a DAC better than the Bricasti? I mean, maybe? But I’d bet at that level that diminishing returns kicks in so hard that the difference is small.
To make the Mola Mola beat analogue, you need to add some front end accessories like LHY Audio SW-8 network switch and LHY Audio LPS50VA for the modem and extender, as well as Tubulus Argentus ethernet cables everywhere, also Pink Faun LAN galvanic isolator into the streamer. Then all the weak links of streaming are mitigated and digital finally has a fair chance to compete with analogue.
Can you get a digital device to inject clicks, pops, wow & flutter so your digital audio can sound just as good as analog?
I’ve tried loads of good streamers and never heard any good ones I’ve a cord dac it does the job with my I Mac
10 thousand pounds 😂why not buy rotel amplifier with everything in it
Streaming DAC?..................
That 'ought to confuse the noobs real good. I guess a streaming DAC is the same as a Streaming Cable then? Can I afford a Non-Streaming DAC instead?
Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Still to much Voodoo!
Had to stop because of all the lip smacking.
💋 😘
@@SmallRoomAudio It was a good video but for that! Once noticed couldn’t get away.
One step up 10x (price wise) - Vivaldi one 🥹
I’d love to play with a that for sure! They’d probably make me wear white gloves and keep it in a display box - imagine if I scratched it!! 😱