Hi rubiks6. Some things are undeniably evil. (For example, every sane person would say it is evil to torture and kill an innocent child for the fun of it.) Consequently, we can conclude there is a standard, beyond our own opinions, that we use to determine if something is evil. You may like to have a look at the following video of Ravi Zacharias th-cam.com/video/NAm8iK8VhV0/w-d-xo.html . Ravi refers to the standard of what is evil as “moral law”. A moral law, independent of our own opinions, must come from a “moral law giver”. Sorry if I do not explain this very well. There are many other videos of Ravi Zacharias and his colleagues explaining it much better than I can.
@@ant0n_xp491 Well, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are only three of the many religions in the world. So why limit the concept of god to that of these three religions? And even if there is indeed a god how do we know that any of the world's religions has a correct idea of what god is?
The reason for the persistence of god through the history is that human beings experience a special comfort with the idea of god.it is much better for our mental stability that god exists.
The answer to the question is: Only if that god is supposed to be a good god. Christian theology breaks down immediately when faced with the question of evil. Apologists have tried for ages to repair the holes in their absurd theology, but the poor thing is still leaking like a colander.
@Stefano Portoghesi your theory is testable, remember the movie 'the Truman Show' let's say pick new born designer babies place them in an uninhabited island, isolate them from outside world whom they will be oblivious external world run down the programme educate them except religion, and then observe them if they develop the concept of deity, l know sounds surreal but achievable then we find out if the religion appears as a figment of their imagination and so on.....
@@suatustel746 Real life already performed these tests for us, thousands of times. That is why we find so many superstitions concerning magical invisible fantasy friends all over the world. The human ape's brain is very weak when left free to fantasize without rational and skeptical restrictions. As far as I am concerned the scientific method is the best way to get a realistic view of the world around us. It produces the best results. Sadly most people do not understand what the scientific method is, and they are mislead about it by their priests and preachers.
@@Ploskkky granted you've propped up my my presupposition, but if my argument conducted duly, then everything we learned in history books will falsified once for all, no holy books, no prophets, no religion will accountable anymore and shut up whole theologians...
God knowingly gave free will to evil people who would torture and rape children, and still didn't protect them. And by the way if you repent all is forgiven. Try telling that to the poor children.
The speaker does not effectively argue against God because of the existence of evil. He merely tries to attack God as being less than God or less than good, because of the existence of evil. In doing so, he recommits the first sin - putting himself in the moral place of God.
Four thoughts: 1. Because of the limitations of the human mind, it is not possible to conceive of what God is. 2. Humans have been given free will and we can use that free will for good or evil, so there’s no need to say the evil emanates from God. In addition, without the possibility of doing evil, free will would lose some of its meaning. 3. Just as diamonds are created through tremendous pressure, human character is developed through hardships (e.g. Hard times make strong men.). Many of these hardships occur because of evil acts by myself (i.e., self-inflicted trials) or others. Although I’m not arguing for evil, I can see how it has played a role in my own development in terms of developing more patience, the ability to forgive, and more psychological strength. 4. Would it even be possible to conceive of good if evil didn’t exist? That is an interesting thought experiment. Try it. My current thinking is that the answer is “No.”
1)If God is inconceivable, then we can't even trust our reason to ascertain his existence in the first place. 2) It's not always benevolent to respect somebody's free will, especially when you know what's ultimately better for them. If a child walks into the middle of a busy road, it would not be loving to respect his free will and allow him to get overrun. Rather, we'd override his free will by yanking him back onto the pavement. Besides, humans in heaven will live without evil or sufferring and yet they'll have free will right? So why can't that reality obtain on Earth? 3)Patience and forgiveness are only virtuous in sofar as they help us overcome evil. In a world without evil, these virtues lose utility and meaning. 4) There is only good in heaven and no evil, but how is this possible if evil is necessary for the appreciation of good? What about a still-born baby who goes to heaven immediately without even experiencing any pain - will he be unable to appreciate the pleasure of heaven?
@@ant0n_xp491 Your comment perfectly exemplified mine. Thanks. The Bible explains the existence of evil and the existence of God, who is good. And most importantly it tells us the message of God's rescue of mankind from evil in Jesus Christ.
The Creation of life as the materialisation of an Act of God from a non-material dimension is a process of unfolding in time. It is the physical component of human nature as the source of evil, we should not forget that human life commenced from being close to the animal world. It was not so long ago that we lost our tails the purpose of religion being the civilisation of mankind. Only when the spiritual aspect of human nature is able to subdue the animal instincts in man will God be able to realise His true nature through mankind, this requires an individual effort of inner realisation.
These conversations are identical to "Who would win,Thing or Hulk? The Flash or Superman?"..on the very same level of fantasy..and yet there they are, grown men,educated, taking talk about "evil" seriously .
It’s my view god is a kind of creative energy. What occurs on our planet is evolution and choices made by humans, and thus god is simply an observer. Just because god may be all powerful, it is a logical fallacy to state god should therefore intervene into our lives.
The agony of thoughtfulness. To quote Jars of Clay: "Blessed are the shallow, for depth they will never find, but there seems to be some comfort within these rooms where I try to hide"
The setting of this argument is symbolic of evil, they are children of the dark, therefore how can this argument ever resolve? They use titles such as God & Lord but they never state who these titles belong.
Maybe we can see only evil because we are pure evil, but universe is not like that. It's very stable and coherent wherever we can see, things explode or implode sometimes, but it's basically just a maintenance of material structure, doesn't hurt worlds with life mostly. Reality is a very energetic phenomena, if universe could be evil, universe would be Hell, just a ball of powerful forces or worse, just an endless sea of tranquility. Sure things rub against another and shot powerful beams sometimes, but doesn't hurt other stars and material formations most of the times. Obviously, or we could never happen. Surface of our planet is very stable, volcanoes might erupt, earthquakes shake the ground and even entire continents brake apart sometimes, filling atmosphere with cyanide, but those are isolated events from which life always recovers. Plants are also not evil, as i commented before, most animals are much like plants and can't cause harm deliberately, only larger animals behave in strange ways, because they feel emotions, specially fear. It must have to do something with physics of surface, size and medium where evil exist. Therefore evil should be considered as physical condition, existing in a very thin layer around distinctive planet. Asking ontological questions this way make entire situation kinda different, since it's an evolutionary phenomena, meaning it must change with time and doesn't have a permanent, well defined structure. Let's not ask what evil is today but what is the future of evil, will evil evolve to other planets and in space, until it encompass entire galaxy, entire universe, under pure evil domination? Or can evil balance out somehow, transform in something better and it's just a remain from mechanical stage of cosmic evolution. Better humans we became, sooner evil can transform into something better, not so evil, but also not so useless, pathetic and meaningless as the rest of the universe. If Jesus could transcend over evil, so could my dog and it actually did, like many other smart pets are struggling with each single day. But why is evil doomed, answer deserve show of it's own, we only need to imagine something that exist in opposition to all that is good and real, how can evil exist if everything in this universe want to kill it and disintegrate remains of an abomination into a cosmic dust.
Not sure about that ontological argument God must exist outside of universe he created, i don't see any reason why he couldn't became manifested with the universe. This idea need procedural universe, without a Big bang. Than we could say, God emerged from that proto energetic field, similar to how we imagine inflationary model. This principle give us much more room for creative ideas, if God was born from illusive primordial substance, it could appear he always existed and is not a part of this universe, but was born from origin of stuff universe is made of. It should be OK with atheists also, since that would make God a physical phenomena. What do they mean by sea of energy or singularity anyway, it could be those potentials self organized somehow, giving rise to a thought, no matter how subtle and weak that structure might be, it was still something, much more than ordinary chaos. We could say God was a principle that ignited creation, only difference is there could be something coherent and logical inside of it, like potential for space and time to emerge form spiritual tensions. Another example, it like dead body of an intelligent being floating in void of the universe, it is just a material, but this shell is no ordinary chemical compound, energy doesn't flow trough it the same way but is shaped by all those tinny swirls and channels inside that frozen system. It's about how energy from surroundings was formatted and transformed, dead body can't do anything by itself, but it's material structure does since nature would never create a piece of stone like that from physical processes alone. Maybe this is how we should imagine God, like something that shaped natural potentials before matter was fused and it did materialize because of that.
*_Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes or he doesn't care to or he doesn't exist._* *_God is either: impotent, evil, or imaginary._* *_Take your pick, and choose wisely._* ~ Sam Harris
*_Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction._* ~ Blaise Pascal
*_The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought._* ~ Mahatma Gandhi
*_All that is good is not embodied in the law; and all that is evil is not proscribed by the law._* ~ William F. Buckley, Jr.
Let me ask this question; Is the natural phenomenon of predation in nature created and approved of by God? I believe most folks would say yes,.. predation exists with God's approval. Now spend a moment considering how utterly horrific it is for any animal to be eaten alive,.. how common this event is right now today, yesterday, and throughout the entire past history of earth. And now seriously consider the question; Could an evolutionary process have created our human mind, with all it's complexities, nuaces, and eccentricities, without the necessity of such horror? I truly think not. If *_Free WIll_* is to exist,.. there must, at least, be the possibility of evil (live backwards). How long would our species continue to exist without even the possibility of evil?
The CREATOR created evil along with good. Amos 4 13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought; Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Deuteronomy 32 39: "`See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. Exodus 4: 10: But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either heretofore or since thou hast spoken to thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of tongue." 11: Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? 12: Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."
@@tomjackson7755 You are clueless to how you were created in ME, the IMAGE of our CREATOR that has a VOICE that can speak directly into the MIND of a MAN.
@Jack Shadow Nope, not an answer whatsoever... I don't think you understand the insolvable problem this one simple question poses for christian theology. And it is not the only checkmate either. Christian apologetics has always failed, and will always fail, for the simple reason that christian theology itself is an utter failure and a completely incoherent mess.
Christianity is growing all over the globe. Maybe not in the west, but every where else it is growing. So, you’ll be shaking your fist at the sky for quite some time I think.
Well done.. At the point where Robert suggests that God must have created evil, he was VERY close to what I think is the right answer.. it was RELIGIONS that created the concept of Good vs Evil.. I would offer the opinion that evil does NOT exist in the natural world, but is a mental construct only.. A lion is not being EVIL when it takes over a new Pride and kills the existing Cubs.. There is of course VARYING degrees of unacceptable behavior from the perspective of a tribal group, but no evil and no SINS.. Finally, this opinion has been offered with NO claims of REVEALED truth.. Peace.
You mean plants, because animals are emotional beings, therefore very much capable of evil of all sorts. If evil is an emotion, than we should think of this fact as a natural principle. This is why we ask all those silly questions, like what kind of deity would create or be responsible for something that can not be distinguished from a mechanical machine. But if this is not a machine, and for all we know it's far from apparatus of any kind, than questions of various non material potentials also became relevant. It's simple, mechanical clock is evil by default, since it cause friction and deterioration by moving it's mechanical parts, doesn't care for anything that can get stocked in it's gears and springs, it can't. But if reality is purely energetic phenomena, than same rules can't apply, energy can bend and twist, compress or expand and stretch, and most of all, energy can transform, so evil is not a necessity anymore.
@@billnorris1264 Evil is very real, ask David lynch if you don't believe me, lol :) Actually why not, he is a TM expert and would make sense for Mr.Kuhn to ask him for an interview. Transcendental Meditation is about soaking in reality as is, an energetic substance, not a material thing. Therefore evil can be felt, experienced, conceptualized and visualized, even manifested as a physical form. Thing is, evil can also be dematerialized, vaporized, cast away or transformed, it's just another phenomena, shaped by our imagination trying to come up with something useful and interesting. Evil doesn't exist because good exist, those phenomena are not same or equal and opposite, it's just what a primitive, confused consciousness do sometimes when struggling with inner frustrations. And because we are not designed to exist as non material substance, it's just more easy to imagine something awesome and wonderful than something really, really, bad, since we can't do such things, we are to small, weak, dependand and fragile to be very bad.
Ok, let Us to invent a God, If a God exists and It is Absolutely Good, Eternal, and All-Powerful. The Absolute Hidennes from Itself/himself/herself/themself/whatever self/or non Self would be the Itself/himself/herself/themself/whatever self/or non Self way to allow Evil to become manifest ... ... As Good, to Allow Total/partial/relative Evil to become manifested ... ... If then, some beings decide to personalize Evil, their impersonation of evil must embrace The Eternal hiddenness of God for hoping and allowing Evil to expand up to the Eternal ... --------------------- Now, take the same text and change Evil by Good and vice-versa ... ------------------ i.e If a God exists and It is Absolutely Evil, Eternal, and All-Powerful. The Absolute Hidennes from Itself/himself/herself/themself/whatever self/or non Self would be the Itself/himself/herself/themself/whatever self/or non Self way to allow Good to become manifest ... ... As Evil, to Allow Total/partial/relative Good to become manifested ... ... If then, some beings decide to personalize Good, their impersonation of Good must embrace The Eternal hiddenness of God for hoping and allowing Good to expand up to the Eternal ... -------------------- ------------------- If there is some sort of symmetry between those intuitions (good and evil)... Why the antinomy of the former statement doesn't seem to satisfy the intuition of 'good' ?? ---------- Easy, because our intuition tells us that been good means 'to have the potentials for giving' ... while, We tend to correlate 'Evil' with 'to have the potentials for taking, destroying, exploit, and steal' ... While 'Good' seems to be unselfish and Radiant ... Evil seems to be selfish and absorbent ...
Here we have another atheist telling us what “theists” believe, then dismantling these beliefs. Everyone has to face reality. God is not part of creation, creation is part of God The idea that evil things happen to good people is a fantasy; a ghastly delusion. Nothing bad ever happens to good people, but bad things always happen to bad people. Good and bad are not adjectives of morality they are adjectives of correct and incorrect function. The laws of nature (creation) are perfect. But they are for the benefit of the perfect. If you choose to reject the true way, you must accept you are not good
@Stefano Portoghesi The Vedas describe souls as eternal without beginning or end, reincarnating countless times in every type of body. All the consequences of our choices cannot be experienced in a single lifetime, so the remaining consequences are a seed for the next lifetime. In this way, everyone gets only the consequences of their own prior choices.
If God does not exist, then what framework do we have to objectively refer to an event as evil? Without objective good there can be no objective evil.
Hi rubiks6. Some things are undeniably evil. (For example, every sane person would say it is evil to torture and kill an innocent child for the fun of it.) Consequently, we can conclude there is a standard, beyond our own opinions, that we use to determine if something is evil. You may like to have a look at the following video of Ravi Zacharias th-cam.com/video/NAm8iK8VhV0/w-d-xo.html . Ravi refers to the standard of what is evil as “moral law”. A moral law, independent of our own opinions, must come from a “moral law giver”. Sorry if I do not explain this very well. There are many other videos of Ravi Zacharias and his colleagues explaining it much better than I can.
“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.”
― Oscar Wilde
He also think very low himself if we're created in his image!!
Something from nothing, man from nothing less less than a particle of sand, there could be no greater miracle of life at all.
Why do people assume that god is absolutely good or perfect? Or that god is even an individual for that matter?
@@ant0n_xp491 Well, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are only three of the many religions in the world. So why limit the concept of god to that of these three religions? And even if there is indeed a god how do we know that any of the world's religions has a correct idea of what god is?
The reason for the persistence of god through the history is that human beings experience a special comfort with the idea of god.it is much better for our mental stability that god exists.
Do you know of a better theory to resolve all the contradictory facts of existence?
The answer to the question is: Only if that god is supposed to be a good god.
Christian theology breaks down immediately when faced with the question of evil. Apologists have tried for ages to repair the holes in their absurd theology, but the poor thing is still leaking like a colander.
Reminds me of:
"If He is good, then He is not God, and if He is God, then He is not good."
God is good without the O. Devil is bad without the D
@Stefano Portoghesi your theory is testable, remember the movie 'the Truman Show' let's say pick new born designer babies place them in an uninhabited island, isolate them from outside world whom they will be oblivious external world run down the programme educate them except religion, and then observe them if they develop the concept of deity, l know sounds surreal but achievable then we find out if the religion appears as a figment of their imagination and so on.....
@@suatustel746 Real life already performed these tests for us, thousands of times. That is why we find so many superstitions concerning magical invisible fantasy friends all over the world. The human ape's brain is very weak when left free to fantasize without rational and skeptical restrictions.
As far as I am concerned the scientific method is the best way to get a realistic view of the world around us. It produces the best results. Sadly most people do not understand what the scientific method is, and they are mislead about it by their priests and preachers.
@@Ploskkky granted you've propped up my my presupposition, but if my argument conducted duly, then everything we learned in history books will falsified once for all, no holy books, no prophets, no religion will accountable anymore and shut up whole theologians...
God knowingly gave free will to evil people who would torture and rape children, and still didn't protect them. And by the way if you repent all is forgiven. Try telling that to the poor children.
The speaker does not effectively argue against God because of the existence of evil. He merely tries to attack God as being less than God or less than good, because of the existence of evil. In doing so, he recommits the first sin - putting himself in the moral place of God.
Four thoughts: 1. Because of the limitations of the human mind, it is not possible to conceive of what God is. 2. Humans have been given free will and we can use that free will for good or evil, so there’s no need to say the evil emanates from God. In addition, without the possibility of doing evil, free will would lose some of its meaning. 3. Just as diamonds are created through tremendous pressure, human character is developed through hardships (e.g. Hard times make strong men.). Many of these hardships occur because of evil acts by myself (i.e., self-inflicted trials) or others. Although I’m not arguing for evil, I can see how it has played a role in my own development in terms of developing more patience, the ability to forgive, and more psychological strength. 4. Would it even be possible to conceive of good if evil didn’t exist? That is an interesting thought experiment. Try it. My current thinking is that the answer is “No.”
1)If God is inconceivable, then we can't even trust our reason to ascertain his existence in the first place.
2) It's not always benevolent to respect somebody's free will, especially when you know what's ultimately better for them. If a child walks into the middle of a busy road, it would not be loving to respect his free will and allow him to get overrun. Rather, we'd override his free will by yanking him back onto the pavement. Besides, humans in heaven will live without evil or sufferring and yet they'll have free will right? So why can't that reality obtain on Earth?
3)Patience and forgiveness are only virtuous in sofar as they help us overcome evil. In a world without evil, these virtues lose utility and meaning.
4) There is only good in heaven and no evil, but how is this possible if evil is necessary for the appreciation of good? What about a still-born baby who goes to heaven immediately without even experiencing any pain - will he be unable to appreciate the pleasure of heaven?
So many people who argue against the existence of God do so on the basis that there is such evil in the world - and then blame God for it.
@@ant0n_xp491 Your comment perfectly exemplified mine. Thanks.
The Bible explains the existence of evil and the existence of God, who is good. And most importantly it tells us the message of God's rescue of mankind from evil in Jesus Christ.
Yep
Yep I do. God and man
The Creation of life as the materialisation of an Act of God from a non-material dimension is a process of unfolding in time. It is the physical component of human nature as the source of evil, we should not forget that human life commenced from being close to the animal world. It was not so long ago that we lost our tails the purpose of religion being the civilisation of mankind. Only when the spiritual aspect of human nature is able to subdue the animal instincts in man will God be able to realise His true nature through mankind, this requires an individual effort of inner realisation.
These conversations are identical to "Who would win,Thing or Hulk? The Flash or Superman?"..on the very same level of fantasy..and yet there they are, grown men,educated, taking talk about "evil" seriously .
>> taking talk about "evil" seriously
@@Quidisi The real ,reality world. Why,you see Satan?
If you tell me Satan has tempted you? I'm going to laugh.
Who defines what is good or evil?
Isaiah 47: 7 God created Light and darkness. Colossians 1:16 God created all things
Then, God created pain, evil, envy, disease, misery. God is a nice guy!
@@Gustavo_Gindre I don't believe God "created" pain, evil etc.
Man is the creator of God. In his own image.
@@scottlouissmith2382 Is man the creator of Satan?
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Evil don't abolish God, and God don't abolish the evil. Both are in Nature...
If we believe god is the symbol of “ goodness “ so evil will be the symbol of “ bad “ which we created both.
I can't make God look good to any of us. So I won't waste our time trying.
It’s my view god is a kind of creative energy. What occurs on our planet is evolution and choices made by humans, and thus god is simply an observer. Just because god may be all powerful, it is a logical fallacy to state god should therefore intervene into our lives.
My cat is incapable of evil. Except when I take him to the vet.
You can also try to pull his tail slightly, cat evil get triggered immediately.
😂
Nope they are evil too, I love mine but look at their nature
The agony of thoughtfulness.
To quote Jars of Clay: "Blessed are the shallow, for depth they will never find, but there seems to be some comfort within these rooms where I try to hide"
The setting of this argument is symbolic of evil, they are children of the dark, therefore how can this argument ever resolve? They use titles such as God & Lord but they never state who these titles belong.
Fixed the audio huh? Very good...less evil
Unsurpassable great without being evil?
God is not a mathematical being. God simply does not exist. Who is the creator of God and who is his creator etc. etc.
Does Satan exist?
Maybe we can see only evil because we are pure evil, but universe is not like that. It's very stable and coherent wherever we can see, things explode or implode sometimes, but it's basically just a maintenance of material structure, doesn't hurt worlds with life mostly. Reality is a very energetic phenomena, if universe could be evil, universe would be Hell, just a ball of powerful forces or worse, just an endless sea of tranquility. Sure things rub against another and shot powerful beams sometimes, but doesn't hurt other stars and material formations most of the times. Obviously, or we could never happen.
Surface of our planet is very stable, volcanoes might erupt, earthquakes shake the ground and even entire continents brake apart sometimes, filling atmosphere with cyanide, but those are isolated events from which life always recovers. Plants are also not evil, as i commented before, most animals are much like plants and can't cause harm deliberately, only larger animals behave in strange ways, because they feel emotions, specially fear.
It must have to do something with physics of surface, size and medium where evil exist. Therefore evil should be considered as physical condition, existing in a very thin layer around distinctive planet.
Asking ontological questions this way make entire situation kinda different, since it's an evolutionary phenomena, meaning it must change with time and doesn't have a permanent, well defined structure. Let's not ask what evil is today but what is the future of evil, will evil evolve to other planets and in space, until it encompass entire galaxy, entire universe, under pure evil domination? Or can evil balance out somehow, transform in something better and it's just a remain from mechanical stage of cosmic evolution.
Better humans we became, sooner evil can transform into something better, not so evil, but also not so useless, pathetic and meaningless as the rest of the universe. If Jesus could transcend over evil, so could my dog and it actually did, like many other smart pets are struggling with each single day. But why is evil doomed, answer deserve show of it's own, we only need to imagine something that exist in opposition to all that is good and real, how can evil exist if everything in this universe want to kill it and disintegrate remains of an abomination into a cosmic dust.
Not sure about that ontological argument God must exist outside of universe he created, i don't see any reason why he couldn't became manifested with the universe. This idea need procedural universe, without a Big bang. Than we could say, God emerged from that proto energetic field, similar to how we imagine inflationary model. This principle give us much more room for creative ideas, if God was born from illusive primordial substance, it could appear he always existed and is not a part of this universe, but was born from origin of stuff universe is made of.
It should be OK with atheists also, since that would make God a physical phenomena. What do they mean by sea of energy or singularity anyway, it could be those potentials self organized somehow, giving rise to a thought, no matter how subtle and weak that structure might be, it was still something, much more than ordinary chaos. We could say God was a principle that ignited creation, only difference is there could be something coherent and logical inside of it, like potential for space and time to emerge form spiritual tensions. Another example, it like dead body of an intelligent being floating in void of the universe, it is just a material, but this shell is no ordinary chemical compound, energy doesn't flow trough it the same way but is shaped by all those tinny swirls and channels inside that frozen system. It's about how energy from surroundings was formatted and transformed, dead body can't do anything by itself, but it's material structure does since nature would never create a piece of stone like that from physical processes alone. Maybe this is how we should imagine God, like something that shaped natural potentials before matter was fused and it did materialize because of that.
*_Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes or he doesn't care to or he doesn't exist._*
*_God is either: impotent, evil, or imaginary._*
*_Take your pick, and choose wisely._*
~ Sam Harris
*_Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction._*
~ Blaise Pascal
*_The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought._*
~ Mahatma Gandhi
*_All that is good is not embodied in the law; and all that is evil is not proscribed by the law._*
~ William F. Buckley, Jr.
Let me ask this question; Is the natural phenomenon of predation in nature created and approved of by God? I believe most folks would say yes,.. predation exists with God's approval. Now spend a moment considering how utterly horrific it is for any animal to be eaten alive,.. how common this event is right now today, yesterday, and throughout the entire past history of earth. And now seriously consider the question; Could an evolutionary process have created our human mind, with all it's complexities, nuaces, and eccentricities, without the necessity of such horror? I truly think not. If *_Free WIll_* is to exist,.. there must, at least, be the possibility of evil (live backwards). How long would our species continue to exist without even the possibility of evil?
Take god out of the picture and all becomes clear!
And then we don't even have a universe :)
@@osamsal
Can you show that assertion to be true?
proverbs god created all things for its purpose..
Kudos -- 444 Gematria -- 🗽
Yes
The CREATOR created evil along with good.
Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought;
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Deuteronomy 32
39: "`See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
Exodus 4:
10: But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either heretofore or since thou hast spoken to thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of tongue."
11: Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
12: Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."
@@TheWorldTeacher Take ALL of your accounts and troll elsewhere.
Brad get the help you desperately need.
@@TheWorldTeacher I AM the IMAGE of our CREATOR so you will have a problem with ME trying to deceive ME of what I AM.
@@tomjackson7755 You are clueless to how you were created in ME, the IMAGE of our CREATOR that has a VOICE that can speak directly into the MIND of a MAN.
@@BradHolkesvig Brad you are INSANE. You need to get back on your MEDS and get the HELP that you desperately need.
Jesus is an answer to these arguments. He is God. He suffered horribly. He puts us in relationship with God.
On your bike!!
@Jack Shadow
Nope, not an answer whatsoever... I don't think you understand the insolvable problem this one simple question poses for christian theology. And it is not the only checkmate either. Christian apologetics has always failed, and will always fail, for the simple reason that christian theology itself is an utter failure and a completely incoherent mess.
Christianity is growing all over the globe. Maybe not in the west, but every where else it is growing. So, you’ll be shaking your fist at the sky for quite some time I think.
Suat Ustel Yes! To the bike!
A.Plosky Yes, it is an answer. You might not agree with it. It might be the wrong answer. But it is an answer worth considering.
Well done.. At the point where Robert suggests that God must have created evil, he was VERY close to what I think is the right answer.. it was RELIGIONS that created the concept of Good vs Evil.. I would offer the opinion that evil does NOT exist in the natural world, but is a mental construct only.. A lion is not being EVIL when it takes over a new Pride and kills the existing Cubs.. There is of course VARYING degrees of unacceptable behavior from the perspective of a tribal group, but no evil and no SINS.. Finally, this opinion has been offered with NO claims of REVEALED truth.. Peace.
You mean plants, because animals are emotional beings, therefore very much capable of evil of all sorts. If evil is an emotion, than we should think of this fact as a natural principle. This is why we ask all those silly questions, like what kind of deity would create or be responsible for something that can not be distinguished from a mechanical machine. But if this is not a machine, and for all we know it's far from apparatus of any kind, than questions of various non material potentials also became relevant. It's simple, mechanical clock is evil by default, since it cause friction and deterioration by moving it's mechanical parts, doesn't care for anything that can get stocked in it's gears and springs, it can't. But if reality is purely energetic phenomena, than same rules can't apply, energy can bend and twist, compress or expand and stretch, and most of all, energy can transform, so evil is not a necessity anymore.
>>I would offer the opinion that evil does NOT exist in the natural world,
@@xspotbox4400 An interesting comment friend .. Sooo, are you saying that evil is something real, or not..?
@@billnorris1264 Evil is very real, ask David lynch if you don't believe me, lol :) Actually why not, he is a TM expert and would make sense for Mr.Kuhn to ask him for an interview.
Transcendental Meditation is about soaking in reality as is, an energetic substance, not a material thing. Therefore evil can be felt, experienced, conceptualized and visualized, even manifested as a physical form. Thing is, evil can also be dematerialized, vaporized, cast away or transformed, it's just another phenomena, shaped by our imagination trying to come up with something useful and interesting. Evil doesn't exist because good exist, those phenomena are not same or equal and opposite, it's just what a primitive, confused consciousness do sometimes when struggling with inner frustrations. And because we are not designed to exist as non material substance, it's just more easy to imagine something awesome and wonderful than something really, really, bad, since we can't do such things, we are to small, weak, dependand and fragile to be very bad.
Ok, let Us to invent a God,
If a God exists and It is Absolutely Good, Eternal, and All-Powerful.
The Absolute Hidennes from Itself/himself/herself/themself/whatever self/or non Self would be the Itself/himself/herself/themself/whatever self/or non Self way to allow Evil to become manifest ...
... As Good, to Allow Total/partial/relative Evil to become manifested ...
... If then, some beings decide to personalize Evil, their impersonation of evil must embrace The Eternal hiddenness of God for hoping and allowing Evil to expand up to the Eternal ...
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Now, take the same text and change Evil by Good and vice-versa ...
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i.e
If a God exists and It is Absolutely Evil, Eternal, and All-Powerful.
The Absolute Hidennes from Itself/himself/herself/themself/whatever self/or non Self would be the Itself/himself/herself/themself/whatever self/or non Self way to allow Good to become manifest ...
... As Evil, to Allow Total/partial/relative Good to become manifested ...
... If then, some beings decide to personalize Good, their impersonation of Good must embrace The Eternal hiddenness of God for hoping and allowing Good to expand up to the Eternal ...
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If there is some sort of symmetry between those intuitions (good and evil)...
Why the antinomy of the former statement doesn't seem to satisfy the intuition of 'good' ??
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Easy, because our intuition tells us that been good means 'to have the potentials for giving' ... while, We tend to correlate 'Evil' with 'to have the potentials for taking, destroying, exploit, and steal' ...
While 'Good' seems to be unselfish and Radiant ... Evil seems to be selfish and absorbent ...
“Hidennes”: What is the definition of this non-English word?
@@galahadgarza6905 HIDDENNESS
Here we have another atheist telling us what “theists” believe, then dismantling these beliefs.
Everyone has to face reality. God is not part of creation, creation is part of God
The idea that evil things happen to good people is a fantasy; a ghastly delusion. Nothing bad ever happens to good people, but bad things always happen to bad people. Good and bad are not adjectives of morality they are adjectives of correct and incorrect function. The laws of nature (creation) are perfect. But they are for the benefit of the
perfect. If you choose to reject the true way, you must accept you are not good
@Stefano Portoghesi Don't panic!
@Stefano Portoghesi The Vedas describe souls as eternal without beginning or end, reincarnating countless times in every type of body. All the consequences of our choices cannot be experienced in a single lifetime, so the remaining consequences are a seed for the next lifetime. In this way, everyone gets only the consequences of their own prior choices.
Yes, trump abolished God