0:00 Intros 2:21 The Paper Menagerie by Ken Liu 20:50 Warbreaker by Brandon Sanderson 36:54 This is How you Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone 45:37 Bad Feminist by Roxane Gay 58:56 Warbreaker spoilers 1:33:52 SA spoilers 1:45 Jade City by Fonda Lee
To Liene's point about individual stories having more of an emotional impact, there is the quote (attributed to a variety of different people, including Stalin), "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.”
Hello from Brazil I’ve recently been getting back into reading/training my English and finding you guys here in booktube (You, Liene's, Allen's, Jimmy’s, Dr. Philip's, Johanna’s) having discussions and articulating ideas from different perspectives about the same topic or book is really helpful/Insightful. I guess I’m a weird one because to me listening to audiobook while seeing the words on the page and repeating outload after the narrator has been helpful to improve my enunciation. Which kind of became a habit at this point of doing both the same time even when I’m not speaking outload.
I’m new to the world of Booktubes, and I think you guys are awesome! So glad you’re both fans of The Paper Menagerie and Other Stories! It’s funny that you each mentioned stories from Ken’s personal favorite top three stories: “The Bookmaking Habits of Select Species” and “State Change”. His third is in The Hidden Girl and Other Stories. But I won’t tell you what it is until you get to it. Not sure if you guys know about Levar Burton’s reading of some of his stories, but I love him, and I highly recommend it. Also, Netflix’s “Love, Death, and Robots” Season 1, Episode 8 is a pretty faithful adaptation of “Good Hunting.”
Reacting in real time- Paper Menagerie- YESSSSSSSS LIENE IS REDEEEMEEEEEED! BE TRAUMATIZED WITH US! Warbreaker- Hey! I said she'd be mixed! I knew she wouldn't like Lightsong! Huzzah! Time war- Okay so I was wrong about this one but Liene and I actually agree about it! So huzzah! Purpley nonsense! Bad feminist- Okay I was kinda sorta right about this one? I'll give myself a half mark. 2.5/4 means I pass! Also yes Radium Girls is horrible in the same way Invisible Women is.
Fun video :) Quickie thoughts - but contain spoilers: . . . . . . . . . - I liked Jade City but I had a really hard time with Hilo. He is just....not my favourite character; although, I agree that he definitely instigates the plot moving along as other characters have to react. My favourite character was Lan and it was just so rough to lose him midway and be stuck with only the other two. I've heard good things about Jade War though, so will still likely continue on eventually. - I read Warbreaker this year and generally really liked it, but also had side-eye at the same parts Liene brought up. Lightsong was definitely slut-shamey and I never got the sense we were supposed to be critical of his thoughts towards Bkushweaver, but otherwise I really enjoyed him a lot as a character and was able to look past it. Siri not being mad about the horrible things happening to her and being called a vessel didn't really bother me - it seemed like it was just her nature to be positive and I was okay with just being angry for her on her behalf. The twist at the end about the indigenous people being the "big bad" was cringe and I agree that I think Sanderson just didn't even think about it. One thing I've noticed while reading all his works is that he definitely seems to be improving in how he deals with some of his former weaknesses. I get the sense it's a genuine desire to be better as well, and not just a "oopsie, I don't want to get in trouble." He's been pretty open about trying to listen to different people and his sensitivity writers, and I think that really shows. I'm hopeful that the situation with the Parshendi and the humans will be handled with greater care than what went down in Warbreaker.
Ok SO I felt the same as you did in Jade City! Lan was my favorite character and I was like Hilo is a bad person 🤣 I still hugely enjoyed the series though so I recommend you still continue!
I loved This is how you lose the time war, but thought Liene would hate it. She doesn’t tend to like books that are confusing, from what I’ve seen she likes clarity.
Lightsong's nihilistic and indiffrent attitude, and the dialog with Llaimars carried Warbreaker. If Liene is not into that, its understandable she did not like Warbreaker. Vivenna and Vasher stories are also good.
I find it really interesting in the conversation about Warbreaker you see how people have give authors they already like the benefit of the doubt in assuming that they did or didn't intend things in a certain way whereas when it's an author you don't like or a new author people can be less forgiving. Warbreaker spoilers: Regarding the ending, I remember feeling similarly to Liene but I feel like I was like, well it was written a while ago and the conversations around that topic have developed a lot since then so I wouldn't necessarily blame Sanderson for not really thinking about it. I read a lot of classics so I tend to be quite lenient when it comes to reading things within the context of when they were written but still being able to enjoy them for what they are while recognising what the issues are. (I haven't read Stormlight so idk if whatever was said in that spoiler section would change my opinion on that)
YES I actually had this conversation with someone else! Like as I really like Sanderson I'm predisposed to ignore that stuff that I might not on another author. It's hard with fantasy too; sometimes I truly don't think authors think about the consequences/parallels to our world when they write that stuff.
Okay so surprisingly Liene's big problem with the ending of Warbreaker actually crossed my mind too. It didn't bother me specifically because of the viewpoints we are exposed to. Siri and Vivenna are both extremely naive and self-centered, especially Siri haha she does not consider the wider world at all. So it makes sense during the scope of the conflict that everyone would be like "these guys bad, get em" and then the book kinda just ends (Which overall would be my critique of Warbreaker, an extra 25-30 pages near the end would have gone a long way). So there would only be opportunity to assess these kinds of thoughts with either A) a longer decompression time or B) different viewpoint characters. Although I agree with you that the meta reason is just that Sanderson didn't really think about it haha. I think he's handling this way better in Stormlight (it's interesting you say "we don't know" how he's gonna handle it considering he has kinda dealt with it for two books now, although I'm sure we'll get more about it). But yeah as far as Liene's villain arc this one is pretty reasonable. Her other gripes were sillier 😅
*MAJOR STORMLIGHT SPOILERS BELOW* Welllll the reason I say we still don't KNOW is the conflict isn't resolved yet. Like are we still rooting for our guys to gain Roshar? Or the Parshendi? I mean the main characters are the invaders and we don't know what will happen there. So I don't think it's resolved yet.
I read Invisible Women the same month I read The Woman They Couldn't Silence. It's written by the same author as Radium Girls. TWTCS was also infuriating but way better, imo. I honestly think her history should be part of American compulsory education.
I think it's such a great title lol like I literally bought it only for cover and title. I don't do that very often (and usually it turns out poorly) but this time I liked it. It is a weird novel though.
When are you reading the hidden girl, have you now? I’ve read both collections and while it’s not as good it’s still got some great stuff and emotional stories. Not quite as depressing and more sci-fi based. Also 50% through grace of kings now and loving it. Hunting Ken Liu content.
Warbreaker is my favorite Sanderson, then words of radiance, then mistborn 1 then skyward. I disliked mistborn 2 and dnf’d mistborn 3 🤣 I feel like Sanderson’s character development is limited n hits a wall for long series, hence I disliked rhythm of war. I think that’s why I loved warbreaker? I’m weird I think? 💁🏼♀️
I mean I'm always glad to have a Warbreaker stan on my side, although I have to say I loved Rhythm of War even tho that's an unpopular opinion in this fandom LOL
I really liked Lan’s death reading it the second time around.
Basically how he died was he overdosed on shine, but the reason why he had to use shine is great and the tragedy of his action is even more so.
First, after his duel, he got new jade and he had to be seen wearing his new jade because it was integral to protecting his reputation a Pillar, an especially important thing for Lan to do given that some think Lan is not wartime pillar material and that Hilo, his younger brother, would be more fitting.
The reason why he overdosed in the brothel was that the week after he had stopped using shine immediately after that incident with Anden where Lan lost his cool. he stopped using sh1ne after that andy interaction
Lan felt disgusted with himself for getting emotional in the company of his cousin who iodized him as an older brother.
Lan stopped using shine for a week because Andy’s words and the moment of losing his cool with his cousin really affected him
So, when he had to finally start using shine again, he accidentally administered too much being off shine for a week against doctor's orders made his fever worst so he overcompensated with too much sh1ne
Basically Lan did die because of the overdose, but behind the direct cause was the layers upon layers of clan burden and personal character flaws that resulted in him having to rely on shine in their first place.
He was insecure about his position as pillar in wartime because of his younger brother’s military reputation and he felt embarrassed at having his younger cousin see him at his weakest moment.
I think the third book, Jade Legacy, will make you appreciate Lan more.
![ไข้ขึ้นเลย! เมื่อแฝดโดนจัดเต็มวัคซีนครบ2เดือน🤒 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.54 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2VHItnyyvY/mqdefault.jpg)
0:00 Intros
2:21 The Paper Menagerie by Ken Liu
20:50 Warbreaker by Brandon Sanderson
36:54 This is How you Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone
45:37 Bad Feminist by Roxane Gay
58:56 Warbreaker spoilers
1:33:52 SA spoilers
1:45 Jade City by Fonda Lee
The true hero thank you Alicia. This was on my to do list and now it’s just done 🖤🖤🖤
@@Bookborn I saw the earlier comment and I was already watching it through so i said why not
To Liene's point about individual stories having more of an emotional impact, there is the quote (attributed to a variety of different people, including Stalin), "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.”
Hello from Brazil
I’ve recently been getting back into reading/training my English and finding you guys here in booktube (You, Liene's, Allen's, Jimmy’s, Dr. Philip's, Johanna’s) having discussions and articulating ideas from different perspectives about the same topic or book is really helpful/Insightful.
I guess I’m a weird one because to me listening to audiobook while seeing the words on the page and repeating outload after the narrator has been helpful to improve my enunciation. Which kind of became a habit at this point of doing both the same time even when I’m not speaking outload.
I think if I were reading in a second language, the "immersive" reading by listening and reading would be EXTREMELY helpful.
I’m new to the world of Booktubes, and I think you guys are awesome! So glad you’re both fans of The Paper Menagerie and Other Stories! It’s funny that you each mentioned stories from Ken’s personal favorite top three stories: “The Bookmaking Habits of Select Species” and “State Change”. His third is in The Hidden Girl and Other Stories. But I won’t tell you what it is until you get to it. Not sure if you guys know about Levar Burton’s reading of some of his stories, but I love him, and I highly recommend it. Also, Netflix’s “Love, Death, and Robots” Season 1, Episode 8 is a pretty faithful adaptation of “Good Hunting.”
Reacting in real time-
Paper Menagerie- YESSSSSSSS LIENE IS REDEEEMEEEEEED! BE TRAUMATIZED WITH US!
Warbreaker- Hey! I said she'd be mixed! I knew she wouldn't like Lightsong! Huzzah!
Time war- Okay so I was wrong about this one but Liene and I actually agree about it! So huzzah! Purpley nonsense!
Bad feminist- Okay I was kinda sorta right about this one? I'll give myself a half mark.
2.5/4 means I pass!
Also yes Radium Girls is horrible in the same way Invisible Women is.
It's not purpley nonsense you guys ~JuSt DiDN't GEt It.
Fun video :)
Quickie thoughts - but contain spoilers:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
- I liked Jade City but I had a really hard time with Hilo. He is just....not my favourite character; although, I agree that he definitely instigates the plot moving along as other characters have to react. My favourite character was Lan and it was just so rough to lose him midway and be stuck with only the other two. I've heard good things about Jade War though, so will still likely continue on eventually.
- I read Warbreaker this year and generally really liked it, but also had side-eye at the same parts Liene brought up. Lightsong was definitely slut-shamey and I never got the sense we were supposed to be critical of his thoughts towards Bkushweaver, but otherwise I really enjoyed him a lot as a character and was able to look past it. Siri not being mad about the horrible things happening to her and being called a vessel didn't really bother me - it seemed like it was just her nature to be positive and I was okay with just being angry for her on her behalf.
The twist at the end about the indigenous people being the "big bad" was cringe and I agree that I think Sanderson just didn't even think about it. One thing I've noticed while reading all his works is that he definitely seems to be improving in how he deals with some of his former weaknesses. I get the sense it's a genuine desire to be better as well, and not just a "oopsie, I don't want to get in trouble." He's been pretty open about trying to listen to different people and his sensitivity writers, and I think that really shows. I'm hopeful that the situation with the Parshendi and the humans will be handled with greater care than what went down in Warbreaker.
Ok SO I felt the same as you did in Jade City! Lan was my favorite character and I was like Hilo is a bad person 🤣 I still hugely enjoyed the series though so I recommend you still continue!
I loved This is how you lose the time war, but thought Liene would hate it. She doesn’t tend to like books that are confusing, from what I’ve seen she likes clarity.
Lightsong's nihilistic and indiffrent attitude, and the dialog with Llaimars carried Warbreaker. If Liene is not into that, its understandable she did not like Warbreaker.
Vivenna and Vasher stories are also good.
Im sold on the Paper Menagerie. I love books that wreck me.
Ill be slowly making my way through this today
OH OK SO I THINK YOURE GONNA LOVE IT
I find it really interesting in the conversation about Warbreaker you see how people have give authors they already like the benefit of the doubt in assuming that they did or didn't intend things in a certain way whereas when it's an author you don't like or a new author people can be less forgiving.
Warbreaker spoilers:
Regarding the ending, I remember feeling similarly to Liene but I feel like I was like, well it was written a while ago and the conversations around that topic have developed a lot since then so I wouldn't necessarily blame Sanderson for not really thinking about it. I read a lot of classics so I tend to be quite lenient when it comes to reading things within the context of when they were written but still being able to enjoy them for what they are while recognising what the issues are. (I haven't read Stormlight so idk if whatever was said in that spoiler section would change my opinion on that)
YES I actually had this conversation with someone else! Like as I really like Sanderson I'm predisposed to ignore that stuff that I might not on another author. It's hard with fantasy too; sometimes I truly don't think authors think about the consequences/parallels to our world when they write that stuff.
Okay so surprisingly Liene's big problem with the ending of Warbreaker actually crossed my mind too. It didn't bother me specifically because of the viewpoints we are exposed to. Siri and Vivenna are both extremely naive and self-centered, especially Siri haha she does not consider the wider world at all. So it makes sense during the scope of the conflict that everyone would be like "these guys bad, get em" and then the book kinda just ends (Which overall would be my critique of Warbreaker, an extra 25-30 pages near the end would have gone a long way). So there would only be opportunity to assess these kinds of thoughts with either A) a longer decompression time or B) different viewpoint characters. Although I agree with you that the meta reason is just that Sanderson didn't really think about it haha. I think he's handling this way better in Stormlight (it's interesting you say "we don't know" how he's gonna handle it considering he has kinda dealt with it for two books now, although I'm sure we'll get more about it). But yeah as far as Liene's villain arc this one is pretty reasonable. Her other gripes were sillier 😅
*MAJOR STORMLIGHT SPOILERS BELOW*
Welllll the reason I say we still don't KNOW is the conflict isn't resolved yet. Like are we still rooting for our guys to gain Roshar? Or the Parshendi? I mean the main characters are the invaders and we don't know what will happen there. So I don't think it's resolved yet.
I read Invisible Women the same month I read The Woman They Couldn't Silence. It's written by the same author as Radium Girls. TWTCS was also infuriating but way better, imo. I honestly think her history should be part of American compulsory education.
Oh I loved Radium Girls. I"ll for sure check out her other book
I still need to read This is How You Lose The Time War, then again I'm a Doctor Who fan so the title speaks to me lol
I think it's such a great title lol like I literally bought it only for cover and title. I don't do that very often (and usually it turns out poorly) but this time I liked it. It is a weird novel though.
That's literally what I think of every time I see the title!
When are you reading the hidden girl, have you now? I’ve read both collections and while it’s not as good it’s still got some great stuff and emotional stories. Not quite as depressing and more sci-fi based. Also 50% through grace of kings now and loving it. Hunting Ken Liu content.
I'm quite a harsh rater, but definitely gave "Fed Up" by Gemma Hartley 4 stars!
“I like loving my books.”
*5 minutes later: Liene destroys Warbreaker.*
P.S.: SEE, LIENE?! EVERYONE KNOWS THAT WORDS OF RADIANCE IS GREAT!
We all know Liene secretly likes destroying
@@Bookborn she’s the Death Star of Booktube.
Warbreaker is my favorite Sanderson, then words of radiance, then mistborn 1 then skyward. I disliked mistborn 2 and dnf’d mistborn 3 🤣 I feel like Sanderson’s character development is limited n hits a wall for long series, hence I disliked rhythm of war. I think that’s why I loved warbreaker? I’m weird I think? 💁🏼♀️
I mean I'm always glad to have a Warbreaker stan on my side, although I have to say I loved Rhythm of War even tho that's an unpopular opinion in this fandom LOL
anyone know where i can find the paper menagerie vlog?
It's only for her patrons!
Liene, how dare you slander nightblood??
Where is the video where Liene chooses your books?
It’s happening tonight
You made me not want to read the Paper Menagerie. I’m glad I haven’t bought it yet.
lol I feel like our review makes everyone WANT to read it so I love that hearing it makes you an emotional wreck made you be like "nah I'm out"
I really liked Lan’s death reading it the second time around.
Basically how he died was he overdosed on shine, but the reason why he had to use shine is great and the tragedy of his action is even more so.
First, after his duel, he got new jade and he had to be seen wearing his new jade because it was integral to protecting his reputation a Pillar, an especially important thing for Lan to do given that some think Lan is not wartime pillar material and that Hilo, his younger brother, would be more fitting.
The reason why he overdosed in the brothel was that the week after he had stopped using shine immediately after that incident with Anden where Lan lost his cool.
he stopped using sh1ne after that andy interaction
Lan felt disgusted with himself for getting emotional in the company of his cousin who iodized him as an older brother.
Lan stopped using shine for a week because Andy’s words and the moment of losing his cool with his cousin really affected him
So, when he had to finally start using shine again, he accidentally administered too much
being off shine for a week against doctor's orders made his fever worst so he overcompensated with too much sh1ne
Basically Lan did die because of the overdose, but behind the direct cause was the layers upon layers of clan burden and personal character flaws that resulted in him having to rely on shine in their first place.
He was insecure about his position as pillar in wartime because of his younger brother’s military reputation and he felt embarrassed at having his younger cousin see him at his weakest moment.
I think the third book, Jade Legacy, will make you appreciate Lan more.
Interesting that Liene only likes books with shite endings or super depressing stories. Makes sense why she like abercrombie so much.
I tried immersive reading a few times but couldn't do it. My brain is like "No. Pick one"
Look I have to admit I've never tried it but it literally sounds SO TERRIBLE that I can't fathom even trying it for a second.
Time stamps would be nice...
This is a live so haven’t had time to add them yet :)