@@theshadowtiger7451 If a director says im doing a superhero movie without reading the comics it's shit. Look at the dceu where Superman for example kills.. everyone knows that Sups would never kill
Bryan "Lord Pedo" Singer famously forbid people from reading comic books on the set of the original X-Men film, yet that was the success the jumpstarted modern day's Marvel movie craze (shout out to Blade tho).
@Shy Kaiman So what what? It means that regardless of opinions, the original X-Men movie legitimized taking Marvel adaptations seriously and it cleared the path for Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies, which along with Fox's other X-Men movies established and solidified a knowledge of Marvel as brand among mainstream moviegoers, stop trying to pick a fight just because someone points out a fact that you don't like.
As an up and coming, hardly known actor, when you get told THAT, how do you just not immediately drop out of the movie bc of that, like that’s just gonna put a stain on a career that doesn’t have the necessary backing to accommodate that kinda stain lol
I suppose if someone wanted to play devil's advocate, they could suggest that unlike other comic book movies, this one doesn't draw any real inspiration from previously-existing comic arcs but was a completely original story.
For real lol. I think it's crazy how that movie gets so much praise as it did and still does.. literally none of it is original. Even the villian is just a reskinned mysterio
Pepè Le pew marvel didn’t give him that battle, it was fucking dumb ass Fox ruining another marvel movie. They should honestly just give up already and give marvel they’re characters back man.
@@L8ilal The Disney-Fox acquisition may see that happen. They're definitely getting F4 for the MCU, since EVERY SINGLE FILM has been a dud, especially the 2015 one. X-Men is a slippery slope since it's one of the oldest superhero franchises that's still going, and they're one of Fox's biggest money makers. Buuuuuut the most recent X-Men films have been pretty lacking and are becoming much more gimmicky and basic. It does feel like Marvel has been on a quest to get back all of their film rights over the past 11 years, and I hope they do all of them the justice they deserve.
@@clarencegboddicker8144 Sorcerer on par with Strange, scientist on par with Stark, the man becomes a god at one point for crying out loud and all you ever see of him in movies is his boner for Sue Storm.
Uh... I'm black, and I really didn't like black Johnny Storm. They were just trying to be progressive without a reason to be progressive. If they were gonna make Jonny black, why didn't they make Susan black too?
captaintaco2345 make a good Movie first then decide wich race everyone should have or make their culture part of their character or story. Changing the race alone doesn’t do anything, especially when there is supposed to be a interracial brother/sister relationship
Honestly no one myself included would be happy with a White dude playing Black Panther, Spawn ect. So how is it racist if i don't want a Black dude playing Johnny Storm?
If you even payed attention to the criticism for this film, it was not "racist trolls" not liking jordan, but the fact that Johnny storm and sue storm were not the same race despite being related.
Moon Man I don’t know if you know about this but sometimes divorced parents bring their kids from their first marriage with them. Also adoption exists. They may not be related by blood but as long as you can feel their bond that shouldn’t matter (the movie however was lagging in that department)
What's with this endless Hollywood arrogance against comic books? Too many directors claim that they can write a better story than the original source material... just stop.
Yes ! If it ain't broke, don't ' fix it ' !! These actors all look too serious, Miles Teller is looking so unhappy- " I want my check and I'm out " kinda look. Is there a decent movie in there somewhere? I'd watch a good re-edited FF 2015
Well, I half agree. Yes, this mentality that "comics are terrible and my take on it is better (watch my movie and give us money for a sequel)" is very annoying. However, you can't just adapt the comic book or the comic book story directly. What's the point in watching an adaptation of the comic book when you can just, y'know, READ THE DAMN BOOK? What Taika Watiti did with Ragnarok was take elements from the comics, whether it be the Jack Kirby-esque designs, characters, or even story elements, but still have it a new identity and a movie that, though taking a lot of old material, feels fresh and adventurous.
i just hated the fact that the Thing was nekkid and had no dong. i mean DC apparently has won the dong wars. just look at Dr, Manhattan swinging in the wind.
Dr. Manhattan was from Vertigo's Watchmen imprint. The source is very mature comic to begin with, and so is the movie R-rated status. Fantastic Four on the other hand, always a family-friendly affair. So, no rocky dong for you.
Brian Fantana there was no such thing as "vertigo" in '86. it was a straight up DC book, just set in an alternate '85.not to mention, i'm not the marvel fucktard who wasn't smart enough to go "hey, fellas, ya think the dude needs pants?"
DopeBangin Junt just like the company w/the balls to be comic accurate. like the fellow pointed out above me w/the silver surfer, marvel seems to be neutering all of their characters. and dc isn't promoting such a worthless character as capt bitch tits as "earths mightiest hero".
Kimble Simpson but at least the Thing in the comics had pants. whats wrong w/the assholes at marvel who allowed that to be put on film. but the again, it is marvel.
@@marquirasheed after blade made a shit ton of money it allowed the network to loosen more funding for those other movies because they didn't think it would be successful
Meanwhile Disney allowed Taika Waititi free reign and had a great personality which transformed Thor to an interesting character and Ragnarok was an amazing comic book film
Spazza42 Thor was ruined how in Endgame? Because he got fat? Thor saw his best friend, his brother, his people die and he guilts himself for not killing Thanos, leading to half the universe being wiped. Now tell me how you would deal with that??. It’s great character development for Thor.
Luna Yes and no. I understand where they’re trying to go with his arc, but they can’t decide whether he’s a serious contender or just forced comic relief. I loved how they made Thor human in Ragnarok and Infinity War, it shows his flaws and finally makes him relateable. He’s obviously goinna blame himself for not killing him. GOTG I & II got the balance of seriousness and comic relief spot on, but there were still a couple a clips I thought were daft, by no means did they make the film bad. We get no mention of how Valkyrie or Korg are alive, assuming it’s just because the film doesn’t have time to explain it, yet we have time for forced comedy because someone thought it’d be funny if “Thor got fat”. The Hulk’s character was worse in Endgame though. Banner/Hulk’s relationship has been strained for multiple films but was completely overcome by Banner thinking “he’s the cure, not the enemy”, all of which happened off screen. I’d rather have a scene where he pivotally redeems himself on screen. And insects? Cute...
Spazza42 I agree with Hulk and I get where you’re coming from with Thor, Thor in Ragnarok is fantastic, I do like Thor in Endgame and everyone has different opinions. I thought you were just someone that wanted Thor like he was before Ragnarok, boring and not interesting
I remember walking in on someone watching Fantastic Four, saw them in like a lab with them learning their powers or whatever it was... "Oh do it just start?" "No it's almost over." "..."
That’s how you know it’s fucked I remember my friend getting angry when we watched the Tim Story version a few days ago & said” Look *10 minutes in* & they have their powers, we didn’t have to wait a hour where we were in the 2nd act of the movie for it to happen!”
I think all of the 5 primary roles were miscast here. I hated the Michael B. Jordan casting, but not because Johnny is Caucasian in the source material, but because of the reasoning. Trank justified it as bring the team into the ‘real world demographics.” I’d rather it have been because this version was written with MBJ in mind, he auditioned the best, or simply because he is an amazing actor. Trank’s reasoning seems to be meeting a quota rather then having an open minded audition. I read Michael Clarke Duncan was cast as Fisk/Kingpin because he embodied what they wanted the character to represent in the film. That’s why I dug that casting.
Well it seemed MBJ is the only one that came out of this movie respected and still liked. I mean he was in Creed 2 and Black Panther two really good ass films.
@@ULTRAOutdoorsman The 90s and early 2000s was the era of cable TV. Television was at the top of the entertainment world when movies went into a decade long period of crap and stgnation. The Harry Potter and X-Men films, Peter Jackson changed that. But The Shiled and Dark Angel were hugely popular and while there were some good movies, theatrical releases weren't treated in the way they are today. Specially when it comes to comicbook films. At the time F4 came out you had movies Peter Jackson to top all charts and that's about it, Alba herself had her best year under Jackson with King Kong. Not to mention the Marvel films F4 had to compete against X-Men Last Stand, Hulk, Blade Trinity, Daredevil and Elektra were all released basically around the same era of mediocrity. Heck I'd argue that some of the lesser known superpowered action heroes such as The One and Equilibrium were better than all of those combined.
@@BurnRoddy Dark Angel was a cult favorite, that barely got its second season and then was cancelled soon after. While Jessica Alba herself managed to gain further recognition thanks to her many awards nominations for her role as Max, the show was not popular with audiences. The Shield is another story altogether, putting FX on the map as a network that previously was largely re runs of Batman with Adam West and The X-Files. As for competition Fantastic Four had some but opened at number one, and pulled a respectable 154.6 million domestic taking. WW gross was 330.5 million. The competition was not superhero films, but Wedding Crashers, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, War of the Worlds among others. The releases you mention came out years before or after FF. Hulk and Daredevil were 2003. Last Stand was 2006, Blade: Trinity and Elektra were 2004.
@@trans8010 Yeah what I meant to express was that it was an odd period of comic book and superhero films. Like I said Equilibrium and The One were great movies even with a significally more reduced budget but something clearly happened after X-Men United which I think ended with Iron Man.
I was only 7 years old when the movie came out, and I rewatched it during my early teens. But yea, I literally ONLY recognized Jessica Alba and Chris Evans at the time.
Honestly, I was pretty annoyed that they cast MBJ as Jonny Storm, but only because they kept Sue Storm white. Like, I’d have been more than happy to see non-white Storms, but making them so clearly not genetically related also meant they had to write in an adoption explainer.
ĸнιтe нernandez if you really see race as that big of a departure from the source material, you might be racist. This movie ignored the comics and the spirit of the original idea in enough ways that actually mattered to the story. Fans of the F4 didn’t like the “it’s clobberin’ time,” phrase being tied to childhood abuse for example; while the racists just got mad that they aren’t all white.
@@Buzz3092 Where exactly do you draw the line when it comes to departures from the Source material? Race is seemingly alight to alter. OK. What about gender? Character motives, catchphrases, powers, antagonists. the setting etc. When does it go from an 'adaption' of the comics to a completely original film masquerading as ' fantastic four'. The fact that Fantastic 4's film seems to be the latter rather than the former is what is the root of public hatred.
It’s funny how quick you were to blame “racist” trolls even tho that wasn’t the case with Heimdall. I’m black and even I know that a black Johnny Storm and a white Sue Storm is a bit odd.
Exactly. It's not about race, even... that's the thing. When the source material has a character that's well liked, no one wants to see that character changed. That said, if you have a character that's not really well liked, then that's the one to experiment with. Idris Elba as Heimdall? It was a little weird that a *Norse* god was cast as a black actor, but he pulled it off and the fans loved it.
@@zacktoor1591 Absolutely, but these wackjobs refuse to see the difference. Better to just cry racism and attack people for loving a thing enough to care.
What people really didn't like was that it's a politically motivated change. Nobody likes the current shitty politics in their movies. It's also a large part of why the all female Ghostbusters failed.
T M he’s not gone He still is and will alway will be cap It just bothers me when people don’t see the movie and say inaccurate things Caps not dead, just old
The first two Fox films were not that bad... People forget the original FF comics were like the G / PG versions of the X-Men Books. Their universes and the primary characters within them, are completely different. What we saw in the first two films was actually a pretty decent interpretation of those original books.
I mean... both movies fail to portray the characters right besides The Thing and Surfer, the plot was paperthin and the script on par with the most mediocre MCU, but yeah, if we exclude that, they weren't bad
@@gotmog22 i'm sorry but im currently reading the original ff from Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and i can safely assure that all members of the team were well played. Reed is the smart workaholic. Johnny is the annoying but charmful. Susan i can understand the critiscism. I'm even gonna go further to defend Doom. He is basically Norman Osborn in business origin but at the time it's what they had and the actor still does a solid job making a egotistical self centred jerk like Doom is in the comics. The first movie is almost bit to bit a fantastic four comic.
I’ve gotta say, I have to disagree with the racist trolls comment. I’m a Mexican American and do not like SJW inclusion tactics. The Michael B. Jordan casting was a terrible one, in my opinion. I am all for black characters in roles in movies but they also have their place. Michael B. Jordan was perfect as Killmonger and Black Panther in general is a huge testament to the fact that there is no true “racism” as America stands today. There most certainly are trolls, however, fans being upset that an ALWAYS white character was cast as a black man in a white family is a slap in the face to true fans. It was forced and did not fit into the storyline. Yes, there are blended families in America, but that does not mean it should be forced into an established continuity. There are MANY successful black characters in the comic universe. The notion of erasing white characters to be replaced by black actors is a sad attempt to appeal to social America and their approval rating and profit margin for this movie proved that it has no place being forced into pre-existing stories.
Chefs make while Thieves take. The advocates for Diversity can't make anything original that makes "a good character of {Example Background Here}" so they have to steal from the successful like parasites.
I always liken Blade to 2001: A Space Odyssey. You're correct in stating that it was indeed Blade that created the modern comic book film era, but it was Xmen that popularised it. In the same way that it was 2001 that kickstarted the modern Sci fi era, but it was Star Wars that popularised it.
Robert Moore yeah x-men definitely had more world wide appeal. I was a kid when I saw Blade in theaters. I literally didn’t even know he was a Marvel character until the opening credits. After that I was hooked on comics.
Here's something I'M sick of: There is a tendancy these days to label things. Anyone that disagreed with Michael B Jordan's casting is labeled 'racist'. Life ain't that simple folks. I disagreed strongly with it. I like MBJ (if I may). I had the same reaction to the rumour of Eddie Murphy playing Robin, Will Smith as Captain America and Idris Elba as James Bond. I loved the Falcon and I LOVED the Black Panther, but these characters are black.I would object to Brad Pitt playing Blade. Before you call me a racist, bear in mind that I an black. My objection are based, not on race, but on the lack of respect shown for the source material. If you can't call me a racist (you could, but you won't), probably the term man-baby, which seems to cover someone who likes certain things left alone might apply. This should cover the need to label. However I digress. Before you throw that word 'racist' into your voiced opinion, you should be aware that most all of the black people that I know, despise Hollywood's trend of tokenism. We are quite able to appreciate original black characters, but do not desire characters to be 'made black'. More people loved Johnny Storm (and didn't care that he was white), than saw this shitty movie. Marvel and DC have plenty of original black characters. Maybe we should see some movies about THEM! Quit making assumption about racism, until you know something about it.
Thank you for your post. You are correct that Marvel and DC have original black and ethnic characters. Am I the only one wondering why the Apache Chief movie isn't out yet?
@Jason Strom Thank you, I think you're right, except for one thing. I'm not sure that Hollywood will learn anything. Already, the bad performance is being blamed on Corona, even though the film came out BEFORE the virus. The failure of Disney Star Wars (and they have failed) has been blamed on the fans. Anything but a movie executive saying "We messed up" (I think Joel Schmacer did that once. What DID happen to him?). Even now, they want to reboot Pirates of the Caribbean with a female lead and without Johnny Depp. That's shit that I'll never see, but it makes me wonder if they'll ever learn. Maybe Queen Kong?
First he says fans are hateful and toxic for complaining about changing Johnny's race and then he says they didn't honor the source material......Well yea that's exactly why people didn't like the change to a major character. Not because they are all "racist".
Even though fantastic 4 movies are bad. I do kinda like the first 2. But they did help 2 actors. Chris Evans now Captain America And Michael B Jordan who now killmoger in black panther. So win for them.
Michael b Jordan would have been better off w.o doing it I mean that man started off on The wire! Was on Friday night lights, went on to do chronicle. He’s not known or sought out for on his work on fucking fantastic 4 lol
Hey, I kind of like Tim Story's Fantastic Four movies! They aren't the best, but they are fun to watch and have a good cast, especally Micheal Chicklas and Chris Evans!
I agree, Evans and Chiklis were spot-on with their characters, Gruffud and Alba not so much. But like most superhero films the most important ingredient is a great villain, and this film took Dr. Doom, possibly the greatest villain in the MU, and completely turned him to shit.
I rewatched them last year and also think they were not that bad. I actually enjoyed them, but i always are more of a fan of a lighter tone instead of all that dark and gritty shit that ruined the DCEU for so long. The only thing i still hate is that Galactus is only a giant cloud, that was such a letdown when i saw the movie the first time, but at least now i now what will come so its not that bad anymore. On another note, in that session (before Infinity War release) i also rewatched the directors cut of the old Daredevil movie, and that also was really quite good. According to IMDB it was maybe the directors cut making it quite better, not sure, can't really remember that much how it was at release.
What I remember from back in the early production of F4 was that there was major fan backlash about Johnny and Sue Storm because the original version had their relationship re-written as romantic rather than siblings. Which was quickly changed early on.
You know you have a problem when you're saying "we need to do a dark, gritty version of the Fantastic Four focusing on body horror." There's plenty of dark comics out there. The Fantastic Four is not one of them. And can someone please get Dr. Doom right?
I know this is late, but the closest thing we got for a "dark" fantastic four, was the ultimate universe. And even them had some bright moments here and there
A friend of mine worked on the film and said that Trank was ofter too high to speak, and that there were multiple instances where Trank would basically hotbox his trailer and refuse to come out.
It's not racist to question why Johnny and Sue Storm look nothing alike. I would be livid if Bishop or Storm were played by white or Asian actors, so why is it okay to turn white characters into other races?
It may have something to do with the fact that between Blade and Black Panther, white America wasn't demanding black superhero franchises. Did Bishop and Storm ever get their own films? Wolverine, Magneto and ProfessorX sold those X-Men films. And most group superhero films had only a handful of black characters.Since it hasn't been a priority to crank out a bunch of black characters since the Windstorm days, Hollywood has to work with what is there to flesh out a cast so its more then a sea of white faces. What many white comic book fans dismiss as "pandering" others see as having a cast be reflective of modern America since the money of blacks, Asians, and Latinos, is just as green as any white fanboy's cash.
AxelQC Because Hollywood sees through mass migration that the west is being made less white, therefore in a few decades when they are approaching minority standards, Hollywood can now market to the new majority by showing how their commitment to blacks,Hispanics etc has been around for a long time so they will continue to have a loving relationship as good customers. They are basically writing us out of our culture to prepare for the future. Highlighting this obvious fact makes you racist apparently, I wonder if the pilgrims called the native Americans racist as they pillaged and stole their land from them?
blkyank1 to be honest with you I don't like them trying to put black people in any white roles because if you're going to do that that you might as well put a Latino an asian an African or a middle eastern guy in. And yes it is pandering because they've made superheroes gay too because the gay community and other communities are being a bunch of butthurt little anus holes all because they don't feel represented enough in society. I'm sorry but I'm not going to represent any freaks of my country
I dont understand where this vid got the idea that the reason people didnt agree with the casting of Michael B Jordan was rampant racism. In the hundreds and thousands of threads that I read on multiple places, I never came across a racist reason. There may have been racists somewhere but there were so few that I never saw any. Rather, the critique is the same reason why people would dislike the casting of a white guy to play Al Simmons/Spawn.
The problem with Micheal B Jordan being the human torch is that him and his sister are supposed to be twins, they should both be the same race whether that race is white or black
I agree man. It's so laisy (and really stupid) to think and to say the reason was because of his race...and blaming fans of being racist, that's really low.
@@osets2117 due to the fact that there ARE biracial twins, I thought they were actually going to do that, which would've been great because everyone seems to think biracial twins is IMPOSSIBLE, but nope, I'm pretty sure they weren't even blood related
5:40 i don't think they were being necessarily racist. i think they saw his casting as disrespectful to the source material and a slap in the face to long time fans. I always wonder what would happen if the situation were reversed and a traditionally black character like falcon was recast with a white actor. What's behind these modern re-casting decisions anyway?.... white guilt or political correctness or both?
It's stupid, one can't dislike anything these days because "whaa racism". If I dislike a woman shooting a man then "whaa sexism, men shoot men all the time why can't women shoot men?" We live in a fucked up time, where if you dislike anything then there has to be an underlying reason for the prejudice, "you can't just not like something"..
@Liberty or Death whats so important about a skincolour? Im not talking about specifically carsting diverse people, i am talking about giving the role to the best actor and dont care about the race. If its important because of realism or relationships i understand, but waths important about Tony Stark for example beeing white in the comics? Dont get me wrong, i love Downey jr, and i wouldnt cast anyone else, but if there would be someone better who happens to be black, why not?
I don't think not liking Johny being black is racist. Comic book characters on screen should look and act as closely to the originals as possible in my opinion. If not then, improve them, but making Johny token black because of hiring quotas is not improving on anything. The audience doesn't go to the movies to watch a fewer dream about the director's and producer's idea of what the series is, but to see their favorite characters on screen.
Same here. I was kind of liking JoBlo's channel here until he start calling critics 'racist trolls' so he could get those precious virtue points with the SJW crowd.
Fans who thought that the casting of Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm meant that Josh Trank wasn't making a movie faithful to the comics turned out to be right.
Micheal B Jordan would have been a great Human Torch if his Pre-Creed roles are anything to go by But through no fault of his own he sucked as Johnny storm
@@coritrottman9699 I never understand why that's the case, why bother to make a film that isn't faithful to the source material? Seems pointless to base it on material you clearly have disdain for, or even worse you're arrogant enough to believe your bastardisation will be an improvement on the very work you're exploiting. Just plain disrespectful.
@@garethholman1050 I guess you don't really get interpretation of different art or even the fundamentals of elseworld stories. There are plenty of characters and themes that have been changed and the result was positive and successful
Blade was a low risk movie that nobody would have cared if it bombed. X-men was at the time the biggest selling comic book of the 80-90s so it had a huge task. Didn't help fox slashed that budget twice!
Blade was sold as a Wesley Snipes action film, not a comic book movie. Nobody was saying "They are finally adapting African American comic book icon Blade. Great." People were saying "Wesley Snipes has a newfilm where he's playing a vampire."
@@TheLAGopher Wow. What a sack of opinionated ignorance. You have no way of knowing what Blade was sold as. Were you part of the direction/production/casting/advertising team? Secondly, did you somehow interview every person in the world and confirm that everyone was saying, "Oh look! Wesley Snipes is a vampire, and it has nothing to do with a comic, a novel or a magazine!" You're an idiot.
Johnny storm being white was neither important nor integral Then again when you recess EVERYONE as a minority just seems like your trying shove white people out Draw the line somewhere is what I’m saying
Objecting Johnny Storm being black have nothing to do with being rscist or trolling...it is about WHY it was changed when Johnny had ALWAYS been the brother of the Invisible girl....
How did you criticize it? Because flaming the directors and writers before the movie came out for casting Jordan as Johnny Storm would be exactly the kind of racist shit you would have gotten called out on. Let me break it down, the implicit bias in many people's mind allowed them to do just that because they didn't even actually know if they were related yet. The movie hadn't even come out. If ret-conning is your problem, than pls for your own sanity, don't ever watch anything that has source material which it's being based on. You will be disappointed.
I agree. I could barely sit through this one. It was slow paced, the acting sucked, the effects and CGI were terrible and the action scenes were a letdown.
I was with you until the "toxic online trolls" nonsense. Fans wanting their characters to remain true to the source material doesn't equate to racism. If a character like Blade was played by a white actor, the same people who complain about "toxic fandom" would be losing their collective shit over it.
Remember all the whining about a white actor on the latest Hell Boy flick that turned out to be a turd of a movie.... I know nothing of the comic, i would had not matter to me or the casual movie goer....
Lmao if they had a white black panther then the whole internet would literally be screaming RACISTS!! But because it’s a black Jonny Storm it’s “progressive”. Double standards and fuckin idiots my dude.
Dude Black Panther is a really terrible example to use, he's supposed to be the king of a country full of black people, which would make even less sense than a brother and sister not being fully blood related. And yeah it kind of would be racist to change a black hero to white, because black people are super underrepresented in the media. Most of these comics were created in a far more racist time in society, and as a result, it was extremely rare for writers to create black heroes (black panther came fairly late into the marvel timeline.) If fans are forever demanding that adaptions follow the source material 100%, we will naturally end up carrying over the racism of the 40's, 40's and 50's (which was the golden age of comics, but also racism) into these adaptions. Script writers at the moment are in a tough spot. They have the job of translating a white dominated comic industry into a modern movie series, but if you change so much as the sound of Reeds farts, you will upset a portion of the fan base.
@@jman72898 SJW's in a nutshell, man. Im still entertained by Brie Larsons hypocricy taking on the Captain marvel role as a white blonde woman which is totally progressive in their insane world ( not) Why is this hypocritical however and not cliche? Because Captain Marvel was once a black woman. But Brie ain't THAT progressive to turn down that paycheck :D
@@Bluntteh people who think like you about established characters and their lore, shows how little they care about the comic books franchises that people have kept alive and supported for generations
The human torches race is irrelevant to the character. Comic books characters change all the goddamn time between series and writers. Only one reason someone would be upset over something like that.
Racist trolls? Really? Not following the comics was a big mistake, so these trolls were right, and it could have had nothing to do with racism. The nerve of some of these "critics".
Turning Johnny Storm black and it's subsequent backlash as racist, is a little short sighted. For 50 years, the character was white. Changing his skin color is huge. Remember, you're making a movie based on an existing source. The fan base which freaks out if you you change the color of their uniforms. Changing a skin color changes the entire story.
Why are you lying? You don't care about accuracy or sticking to the source material, only when it's about an actor not being white. That's when you care the most, there is no story alteration in movies that makes you more or equally upset. Be honest!
They were racist and I've noticed that it perfectly okay to whitewash characters. But these racist incel Fanboys want to scream and holler if a black character play something they feel only a white boy should be able to play.
"racist trolls' pleeaaasee, this was a terrible casting all round and a pretty dull movie overall. Even though it was bad I liked the 2005 version 100 times more than that garbage reboot if only for getting the casting right.
I watched this movie hungover in the theater, it was enough to push me into depression for the rest of the day and i can still remember actually feeling nauseous at the awfulness i was witnessing.
Capn Cummings I call them super fanboys, people so obsessed about something any change is seen as the devil. The most prominent one in pop culture being the comic book guy from the simpsons
It's not racist trolls that were upset about Johnny its was the fact that it wasnt the family that so many of us love. Why they used the Fantastic 4 name for a film that was not the Fantastic 4. It's in the same breath as Howard the Duck!
@@sofakingonmynuts1438 Because as far as I can tell, it's being used as a directed insult. They aren't saying it because they hate all blacks, they're saying it because they think it will hurt him specifically. If he were openly gay they'd be calling him an aidsfaggot. If he were a woman, some sort of cunt. People use the word they think will cause the greatest hurt feelings, they go for the jugular. But that doesn't even approach an indication that they hate everybody that their target bears some cosmetic resemblance to. Trolls maybe, racist no. Take for example @Riverslidebishop's comment, which doesn't seem to be showing up for me now but is in my notifications, where he says that I'm "so bereft of braincells that he wears diapers and a peppa pig helmet to school." Does this mean that Riverslidebishop is an ableist pig who thinks cripples should be gassed and retards deserve a bullet? I don't think so, I think he picked words that he thought would hurt. He doesn't know my race, orientation, or anything like that, so he went for intelligence. But by your logic, he's an ableist troll. He used language to indicate that I am a negative example of the mentally disabled, therefore he hates the mentally disabled. That's you, sofaking. That's all you.
They haven't aged well, but I kinda liked the 2000s versions. Yeah, they were a bit shlocky, but the characters were well played, especially all the knockabout between Michael Chiklis's Thing and Chris Evans' Human Torch.
"And the racist trolls came out in droves" Oh FFS. Fans are tired of politically correct re-engineering of beloved characters. And we damn sure don't want a lecture about it from JoBlo.
Douglas [ ] Step 1: Convince these people that race does not exist but all humans are one race with different skin colors, so they will believe they will be replaced “by themselves but different skin color” Step 2: Create fake reasons why immigrants should come to live with that people (skilled workers, guest workers, refugees, students, family reunification…) Step 3: Ban statistics on race and religion among different age sections of that nation Step 4: Repeat the same lie that foreigners are just 5 or 7 percent and will not change your nation Step 5: Give huge welfare money to foreigners to finance their useless presence or finance their breeding like rabbits of children Step 6: allow every foreigner to bring his brothers, sisters, parents, cousins, wives and all family, who also will bring their relatives as well Step 7: Give nationalities to all these foreigners Step 8: promote all the movements that reduce the birth-rate of the natives such as anti-family movies, abortion, easy-sex, homosexuality, transcendentalism, individualism, Step 9: Inflict poverty conditions on the native people by stripping them from their hard-work money to finance the welfare system. In France, Germany, Sweden, a young person who works will loose almost 32% of his/her monthly salary to the government which will make him/her reluctant on making Children or forming couples Step 10: Promote race-mixing, miscegenation between the foreigners and the natives in every movie, every TV show, every cartoon for children, every education book, every publicity Step 11: Ban free -speech about foreigners, Islam or race by imposing political correctness and social organizations that fight “racism” so the natives will shut their moths and accept their own genocide Step 12: Promote the cultures of foreigners, promote Islam, promote all other races cultures and identities except the culture of the natives and Christianity Step 13: Jail the leaders, the thinkers, the intellectuals & writers who are trying to awaken the masses by labeling them far-right Nazis who are spreading “hate” or “terror” Step 14: Make the natives hate themselves, their history and all the great achievements of their ancestors. Re-write their History to destroy their pride in their race, ancestors or culture so they will not care about being replaced Step 15: Promote Guilt in the brains of natives, that they are responsible for all the miseries of other races & nations Step 16: Promote individualism, the lies of global warming & overpopulation and promote humanitarianism. So the natives will stop having babies, instead they think about global warming or they want to adopt children from other countries of different races Step 17; Ban free-speech about the real rulers of that nation, the J who are behind this sophisticate Genocide that will take just few generations to be accomplished
i'm only tired of it being done stupidly. if things were kept "correct" there would ONLY be white people. Heimdall, decent casting because nobody really knows him. Johnny Storm adopted??? BULLCORN
I don't think disliking the fact that they made a white character black is racist. Because like you said, its a huge change to the source material and that's the problem. They completely changed his character and that was the issue, not because "racists" were upset
That's their excuse for lack of creativity and wanting to cater to the crowd that doesn't even read comics. I'm black(obvious channel pic) and thought it was a bad idea. I don't need original characters to race swap to make me feel good. I just want a good story and adaptation of classic characters.
If they'd gone all out on "character development, science, science fiction, then enough action to get by. All in that order. It would have been amazing. The can't wasn't "wrong" or "bad" They were little older than college graduates pulling together for a science theory, and proving it with results. That is who they are anyway. Scientists with many different backgrounds. So a Marvel movie focused around characters doing cool stuff, and not necessarily beating each other up is a good movie. The previous fantastic 4 weren't "Bad" just not aswell written, or as good as was expected of them. Marvel tried to break the mold, Again! and I think they could have with the right attentions to detail. Maybe a sober Director too.
I disagree with your statement about the casting about as much as everybody in these comments and I'm black but I'm shocked no one could look past that statement that I think you made only to protect yourself as a public figure and see this was a solid video thanks for explaining why this movie ended up so terrible.
"hateful and toxic" ? we dont call people hateful and toxic for being zealous about a vintage car with mint ORIGINAL paint. these are fantasy characters and some people just want no deviations, why act like its some sort of "hateful" community? its just some peoples taste.
You know the people saying “it wasn’t about race” arent helping their case when they rant on and on about diversity being forced while never explains what makes diversity natural on the first place
Lol, ah yes the old and faithful "racists trolls" argument, so I'm guessing you'd be ok if they turned Storm into a blond white chick right? 'Cause I wouldn't...but darned I forgot I'm a racist troll.
@@PeterG00000 Dude , you cant just change the original source just because you want , it doesnt matter if was a white guy replaced or a black guy replaced, it is still wrong.
@@podrepodrinho5592 My rule with all that, is that you can't just change shit about a character 'just because you want'. There has to be a justifiable reason behind that decision. Like when they cast Zazie as Domino. I couldn't understand why they'd cast a black woman as a stark white mercenary, but then I saw the movie. "Oh, they didn't just make Domino black, Zazie Beetz gave a fun, charming, and enjoyable performance, and she just so happened to be black". Oh, how I wish all casting decisions (and Hollywood choices in general) were made with such good, pure intent. The thing is, it doesn't really work the other way around; you can't really cast a white actor as a black character. Firstly, because that would be wildly controversial, and would cause serious backlash. Secondly, because most black characters are who they are *because* they are black. Example: Black Panther, the monarch of an African country, who's character is deeply ingrained in African culture. Not to mention it would look awfully wierd for a white guy to be ruling a entire country of black people. Even on the smaller scale: for a white prince to be born from black parents into a black family, with a black sister, and so on. Even if you made all of his blood relatives white, you'd have a white royal family that rules over a black nation. Even in today's relatively progressive and accepting society, it's not a good look, and I don't think any amount of acting ability or 'charm' would make a change like that justifiable.
I was just talking about this the other day with some friends. While I do enjoy what the MCU has brought to the table; I miss the days when superhero movies were faithful without trying to be some big spectacle designed to make all of the money.
5:40 It had nothing to do with racism. It's about sticking to lore. We can't have established characters anymore because they have turned them into walking templates whose race, gender, whatever can be changed at will.
Gregor Clegane it’s not necessarily about race swapping so much as it has to do with continuity. Johnny and Sue Storm are siblings, though I guess one can be adopted without the story being affected. Michael B Jordan has the best performance of the whole cast. Also, Marvel changed Nick Fury’s race in the comics a few years before the movie’s came out.
@@sherrybell3924 Sure did! Everyone knows it's ok to race switch white characters. They should have gender swapped them too, then it really would have been a hit.
I love the actor but hated this choice. Also I'm sick of it being all these whites becoming black. Would you rather be a black version of a hero or a black hero? Frozone is great and well loved I would gladly see a movie about him. If you think this is the only problem remember that most people hated Wolverine with an Australian accent.
@@robinenbernhard Exactly, changing the race of a character who has a definitive race is such bullshit. Complaining about it isn't racist, it's reasonable.
Not as an adaptation but more how to improve this as a movie: 1) Show Sue and Johnny's childhood backstories (if we are supposed to care about the main 4 we must know them) 2) Make a less cold relationship (Jaime Bell is a great actor but he doesn't even act as Ben, Michael B Jordan tries his best to be like a rebel youngster, Kate also feels distant from others and Miles also tries his best as a scientific youngster). 3) Give solid motivations to the villain (I can see Trank is a fan of AKIRA based on this and his previous movie), so what's more menacing than an outcast with God Complex?? In the final movie there's a vague attempt of development, and even a full backstory shall have worked. 4) More danger in third act. The only battle is also the final battle and that's weird even for an action movie. Classics like Die Hard and Ghostbuster show the hero(es) on the most difficulty levels before facing the Final Boss. 5) My personal: more comic book easter eggs (there were rejected drafts involving HERBIE robot, the FantastiCar, a cameo of Alicia Masters and Tim Blake Nelson's character turning into Mole Man as cliffhanger for sequel.
Hey l know - let's go right ahead and change Black Panther to a deaf Swedish transgender albino while we're at it and still fully invested in wrecking the legacy of classic iconic characters with fake and shallow identity politics.
Right. It's a cop out. I'm black and didn't want to see a black Johnny Storm either. If you want more diverse characters on screen make new ones... just that simple.
Exactly. I'm Caucasian but would be highly insulted if l were black. God forbid anybody should take the time and effort and employ some real thinking and creativity in crafting interesting new black (or other for that matter) superheroes. Oh no can't have that. Nope, so now theres even some insane talk about recasting Superman and Batman as black. Uh news flash they're not black. And IT DOESN'T FREAKING MATTER. It's off the chain nuts. So Black Panther and Luke Cage are created and after that the well is somehow dried up????? Are you freaking kidding me????? There are endless possibilities for new diverse characters without having to CHANGE iconic superheroes from one race or ethnicity to another - just to win fake, empty, and utterly meaningless PC points with the feel good sensitivity mob.
@@frankberst9849 What! A black Batman and Superman? Hell naw... Yeah they will get all the praise from sjw's (who has no intention on watching it)while bombing at the box office because no one in their right mind will except that sh*t. Their excuse will be that the critics are racists and caused low sales.... Hollyweird is fried.
So, so true. And so, so sad. Superman and Batman are white. Period. Black Panther and Hero For Hire are black. Period. Wonder Woman is female. Period. And all of the above are straight. Period. End of story. And none of that should offend anyone who is even marginally sane.
TOM Rothman, not TIM Rothman, is or was the head of Fox (He’s the Tom that Deadpool says “Hi, Tom! to at the end of the earliest “leaked footage trailer that got Deadpool green lit)
Wow! You’re exactly right. I must have flubbed that in recording and didn’t even notice all through out editing. Whoops, thanks for the catch. And Deadpool is next, so that line makes so much sense now. Thanks again!
The only racist thing is that they didn’t cast a black girl as invisible woman. And stop hiring kimberg. He’s been apart of all these flops. Don’t you think he’s part of the problem?
Not liking race swapped characters doesn’t make you a bigot lol. Would you demean black ppl for getting upset if black panther or blade were race swapped? Make new and interesting characters rather than race swap existing ones.
Just like with characters cast with actors of a race not intended for the character. You can't make a movie with a tone that was never intended for the source material. That's what Zack Snyder and his Fanboys can't get through ass-inserted heads
@@Ben-yj8ye exactly! When I first saw the commercial I was like so are they adopted now or what? I knew i wasnt gonna see it. I feel like you can take some liberties with less popular or known characters. Like if somebody made jubilee black or white or Hispanic it wouldn't matter much but you cannot make Wolverine a black woman and expect your product to sell well. Racism has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Never understood the race and gender swap thing in Hollywood. Except for political reasons of course. Also never understood why source material get disregarded so often, when the original comics had so much to draw from.
Marvel's first family can't seem to catch a break. Why not follow the Russo bros. concepts to save this franchise. otherwise, leave this family in comicdom
Why discard any criticism of a black human torch as racism... when people want fidelity to the comics, where a black human torch has never been seen, WTF?
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
Legend says; If you play the human torch in fantastic 4, you join the MCU
The next guy who does will already be in it so the legend isn't wrong.
@@Lunk42 true af😂
Dam lol
The thing joined and turned out to be killmonger
@@doodskie999 That was Torch
All that effort to keep the rights away from Marvel, yeah that was worth it...
Mike Mullen I’m your 100th like. This took you 3 days. You’re welcome comment section mike
Mike Mullen The actors of the film said this film it’s not based of the comics so they don’t really know nothing about superhero films
@@theshadowtiger7451 If a director says im doing a superhero movie without reading the comics it's shit. Look at the dceu where Superman for example kills.. everyone knows that Sups would never kill
Disney is like "who's laughing now, bitch?"
thank you! @@jamesroulstonmooney759
"Don't read the comics because it's not based on any of them" And they thought this movie would be successful because.....????
Bryan "Lord Pedo" Singer famously forbid people from reading comic books on the set of the original X-Men film, yet that was the success the jumpstarted modern day's Marvel movie craze (shout out to Blade tho).
@Shy Kaiman So what what? It means that regardless of opinions, the original X-Men movie legitimized taking Marvel adaptations seriously and it cleared the path for Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies, which along with Fox's other X-Men movies established and solidified a knowledge of Marvel as brand among mainstream moviegoers, stop trying to pick a fight just because someone points out a fact that you don't like.
As an up and coming, hardly known actor, when you get told THAT, how do you just not immediately drop out of the movie bc of that, like that’s just gonna put a stain on a career that doesn’t have the necessary backing to accommodate that kinda stain lol
because they are into pure sci fi rather then superheroes
I suppose if someone wanted to play devil's advocate, they could suggest that unlike other comic book movies, this one doesn't draw any real inspiration from previously-existing comic arcs but was a completely original story.
"The Incredibles"- the best Fantastic 4 movie ever made...
For real lol. I think it's crazy how that movie gets so much praise as it did and still does.. literally none of it is original. Even the villian is just a reskinned mysterio
@@whiteout0111 it's because it's good.
I found the incredibles really boring sorry.
The incredibles was garbage
Incredibles 1: up fantastic 4 and xmen. All it needs was a wolverine expy
Incredibles 2: MCU wannabe cash grab that's makes the first 1 pointless
Dr doom is one of the most powerful villains in marvel ever, and they give him the weakest battle ever
Pepè Le pew marvel didn’t give him that battle, it was fucking dumb ass Fox ruining another marvel movie. They should honestly just give up already and give marvel they’re characters back man.
@@L8ilal The Disney-Fox acquisition may see that happen. They're definitely getting F4 for the MCU, since EVERY SINGLE FILM has been a dud, especially the 2015 one. X-Men is a slippery slope since it's one of the oldest superhero franchises that's still going, and they're one of Fox's biggest money makers. Buuuuuut the most recent X-Men films have been pretty lacking and are becoming much more gimmicky and basic. It does feel like Marvel has been on a quest to get back all of their film rights over the past 11 years, and I hope they do all of them the justice they deserve.
No one who's written a FF film ever "got" Doom. Or how exactly his world is tied in with Reed Richards'.
One of the most powerful characters Period.
@@clarencegboddicker8144 Sorcerer on par with Strange, scientist on par with Stark, the man becomes a god at one point for crying out loud and all you ever see of him in movies is his boner for Sue Storm.
Uh... I'm black, and I really didn't like black Johnny Storm. They were just trying to be progressive without a reason to be progressive. If they were gonna make Jonny black, why didn't they make Susan black too?
As somebody who saw it (yes, help me), they say that she's adopted and was born in Kosovo.
captaintaco2345 make a good Movie first then decide wich race everyone should have or make their culture part of their character or story. Changing the race alone doesn’t do anything, especially when there is supposed to be a interracial brother/sister relationship
D Pax oh ok, your opinion is yours
Exactly, if they were brother and sister it would have made more sense.
Honestly no one myself included would be happy with a White dude playing Black Panther, Spawn ect. So how is it racist if i don't want a Black dude playing Johnny Storm?
If you even payed attention to the criticism for this film, it was not "racist trolls" not liking jordan, but the fact that Johnny storm and sue storm were not the same race despite being related.
If sue had also been black, people would have minded less.
@@georgerobertson1054 that's a lie
Moon Man I don’t know if you know about this but sometimes divorced parents bring their kids from their first marriage with them. Also adoption exists. They may not be related by blood but as long as you can feel their bond that shouldn’t matter (the movie however was lagging in that department)
@@georgerobertson1054 that's bullshit and you know it
@@PancakemonsterFO4 That would be fine if Johnny and Sue weren't full siblings in the comics, but they were.
doctor doom look like a piece of aluminum foil left in the microwave
Or outdated sex doll
It just looked like melted garbage
Yea..more like Dr...Poop
Haha
Am I right, or am I right? Guys?
@Maritza Piccarillo it's a joke, bruh!
More like aluminum crap!
Look i thought the early 2000’s F4 movies were decent
They were definitely good! For the years they released.
They did look like they had fun with the source material at least
I liked them tbh
I thought they were good also.
I mean, they were bad movies, but at least they were FUN.
Don't forget poorly cast. Not ONE of the four leads embodies the original characters.
Exactly!
Well I think the director had a hand in that.
Names not on the top of my head but Mr fantastic was probably only cast because of whiplash being a banger film. Miles teller thats his name.
@@jman72898 It seems like he casted people he previously had worked with, which as far as I know MBJ and Miles Teller
So what?
-let's not fight
-*No, LeT's*
facepalm
I would like it you’re a nice girl to the girl that she was just talking to
Let's make this franchise flop.
Riley Reid?
Such terrible dialogue 😑😑
Actually that was a headbutt not a facepalm lol jk
What's with this endless Hollywood arrogance against comic books? Too many directors claim that they can write a better story than the original source material... just stop.
Yes ! If it ain't broke, don't ' fix it ' !! These actors all look too serious, Miles Teller is looking so unhappy- " I want my check and I'm out " kinda look. Is there a decent movie in there somewhere? I'd watch a good re-edited FF 2015
The original comics are mostly trash. Wouldn't be good for movies
you made me laugh and wich titles are you reading the most rick grayson or somthin ?
Well, I half agree. Yes, this mentality that "comics are terrible and my take on it is better (watch my movie and give us money for a sequel)" is very annoying. However, you can't just adapt the comic book or the comic book story directly. What's the point in watching an adaptation of the comic book when you can just, y'know, READ THE DAMN BOOK?
What Taika Watiti did with Ragnarok was take elements from the comics, whether it be the Jack Kirby-esque designs, characters, or even story elements, but still have it a new identity and a movie that, though taking a lot of old material, feels fresh and adventurous.
Aaron Humphrey th-cam.com/video/oI25QR_1G-4/w-d-xo.html
I will always read it as "Fanfourstic"
Fant4stic
Hmmm... Fourfanstic?
FanFUCKstick.
Browntable?
Nostalgia critic....
This movie really was so horrible. I personally liked the early 2000's one with Chris Evans as Johnny storm
P8N same
That movie was horrible too lol
@@DesignzRUs1 Bad but enjoyable. Unlike this one.
DesignzRUs1 I can say it wasn't the best for sure but it was enjoyable this one was painful to watch
Oscar Nemo word to that this was painful to watch
i just hated the fact that the Thing was nekkid and had no dong. i mean DC apparently has won the dong wars. just look at Dr, Manhattan swinging in the wind.
Also silver surfer.
Dr. Manhattan was from Vertigo's Watchmen imprint. The source is very mature comic to begin with, and so is the movie R-rated status. Fantastic Four on the other hand, always a family-friendly affair. So, no rocky dong for you.
Brian Fantana there was no such thing as "vertigo" in '86. it was a straight up DC book, just set in an alternate '85.not to mention, i'm not the marvel fucktard who wasn't smart enough to go "hey, fellas, ya think the dude needs pants?"
DopeBangin Junt just like the company w/the balls to be comic accurate. like the fellow pointed out above me w/the silver surfer, marvel seems to be neutering all of their characters. and dc isn't promoting such a worthless character as capt bitch tits as "earths mightiest hero".
Kimble Simpson but at least the Thing in the comics had pants. whats wrong w/the assholes at marvel who allowed that to be put on film. but the again, it is marvel.
Everyone seems to keep forgetting that Blade kicked off the successful "comic book movie" run!
Rick Cooper Spider-Man propelled it
Most people don't know he's a superhero. I freaked out when I first saw him in a Spiderman cartoon.
@@marquirasheed after blade made a shit ton of money it allowed the network to loosen more funding for those other movies because they didn't think it would be successful
Spider man 2 gave it a super mushroom.
This guy made a video on that, I watched it the other day and it was pretty good
Meanwhile Disney allowed Taika Waititi free reign and had a great personality which transformed Thor to an interesting character and Ragnarok was an amazing comic book film
And proceeded to ruin him in Endgame ha
Spazza42 Thor was ruined how in Endgame? Because he got fat? Thor saw his best friend, his brother, his people die and he guilts himself for not killing Thanos, leading to half the universe being wiped. Now tell me how you would deal with that??. It’s great character development for Thor.
@@Luna-gz7re i think hes trolling friend, i agree though, thor was incredibly relatable in endgame
Luna Yes and no. I understand where they’re trying to go with his arc, but they can’t decide whether he’s a serious contender or just forced comic relief. I loved how they made Thor human in Ragnarok and Infinity War, it shows his flaws and finally makes him relateable. He’s obviously goinna blame himself for not killing him. GOTG I & II got the balance of seriousness and comic relief spot on, but there were still a couple a clips I thought were daft, by no means did they make the film bad.
We get no mention of how Valkyrie or Korg are alive, assuming it’s just because the film doesn’t have time to explain it, yet we have time for forced comedy because someone thought it’d be funny if “Thor got fat”. The Hulk’s character was worse in Endgame though. Banner/Hulk’s relationship has been strained for multiple films but was completely overcome by Banner thinking “he’s the cure, not the enemy”, all of which happened off screen. I’d rather have a scene where he pivotally redeems himself on screen.
And insects? Cute...
Spazza42 I agree with Hulk and I get where you’re coming from with Thor, Thor in Ragnarok is fantastic, I do like Thor in Endgame and everyone has different opinions. I thought you were just someone that wanted Thor like he was before Ragnarok, boring and not interesting
The Incredibles the best Fantastic Four movie which isn't a Fantastic Four movie
I remember walking in on someone watching Fantastic Four, saw them in like a lab with them learning their powers or whatever it was...
"Oh do it just start?"
"No it's almost over."
"..."
ConformistOwl
Lol
Haha that's what happened to me, I thought we were getting to the thick of it and the movie is just ending lol
That’s how you know it’s fucked I remember my friend getting angry when we watched the Tim Story version a few days ago & said” Look *10 minutes in* & they have their powers, we didn’t have to wait a hour where we were in the 2nd act of the movie for it to happen!”
I think all of the 5 primary roles were miscast here. I hated the Michael B. Jordan casting, but not because Johnny is Caucasian in the source material, but because of the reasoning. Trank justified it as bring the team into the ‘real world demographics.”
I’d rather it have been because this version was written with MBJ in mind, he auditioned the best, or simply because he is an amazing actor. Trank’s reasoning seems to be meeting a quota rather then having an open minded audition.
I read Michael Clarke Duncan was cast as Fisk/Kingpin because he embodied what they wanted the character to represent in the film. That’s why I dug that casting.
An Errant Knight kingpin is best thing about that movie tbh
An Errant Knight RIP
Great point. I also hated the casting of Miles Teller. I don't really have a good reason, I just don't like Miles Teller.
@@anxioussamurai9017 he was good in Whiplash
Well it seemed MBJ is the only one that came out of this movie respected and still liked. I mean he was in Creed 2 and Black Panther two really good ass films.
Jessica Alba and Michael Chiklis were not lesser stars. They were at the top of the world back then.
@@ULTRAOutdoorsman
The 90s and early 2000s was the era of cable TV.
Television was at the top of the entertainment world when movies went into a decade long period of crap and stgnation. The Harry Potter and X-Men films, Peter Jackson changed that.
But The Shiled and Dark Angel were hugely popular and while there were some good movies, theatrical releases weren't treated in the way they are today. Specially when it comes to comicbook films.
At the time F4 came out you had movies Peter Jackson to top all charts and that's about it, Alba herself had her best year under Jackson with King Kong.
Not to mention the Marvel films F4 had to compete against X-Men Last Stand, Hulk, Blade Trinity, Daredevil and Elektra were all released basically around the same era of mediocrity.
Heck I'd argue that some of the lesser known superpowered action heroes such as The One and Equilibrium were better than all of those combined.
@@BurnRoddy Dark Angel was a cult favorite, that barely got its second season and then was cancelled soon after. While Jessica Alba herself managed to gain further recognition thanks to her many awards nominations for her role as Max, the show was not popular with audiences. The Shield is another story altogether, putting FX on the map as a network that previously was largely re runs of Batman with Adam West and The X-Files.
As for competition Fantastic Four had some but opened at number one, and pulled a respectable 154.6 million domestic taking. WW gross was 330.5 million. The competition was not superhero films, but Wedding Crashers, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, War of the Worlds among others. The releases you mention came out years before or after FF. Hulk and Daredevil were 2003. Last Stand was 2006, Blade: Trinity and Elektra were 2004.
@@trans8010
Yeah what I meant to express was that it was an odd period of comic book and superhero films. Like I said Equilibrium and The One were great movies even with a significally more reduced budget but something clearly happened after X-Men United which I think ended with Iron Man.
It should also be pointed out that Michael Chiklis was a huge fan and fought for the role of Ben Grimm.
I was only 7 years old when the movie came out, and I rewatched it during my early teens. But yea, I literally ONLY recognized Jessica Alba and Chris Evans at the time.
Honestly, I was pretty annoyed that they cast MBJ as Jonny Storm, but only because they kept Sue Storm white. Like, I’d have been more than happy to see non-white Storms, but making them so clearly not genetically related also meant they had to write in an adoption explainer.
Exactly this.
They could've also made one of the other two black. But no. It had to be one of the siblings
ĸнιтe нernandez if you really see race as that big of a departure from the source material, you might be racist. This movie ignored the comics and the spirit of the original idea in enough ways that actually mattered to the story. Fans of the F4 didn’t like the “it’s clobberin’ time,” phrase being tied to childhood abuse for example; while the racists just got mad that they aren’t all white.
@@Buzz3092 Where exactly do you draw the line when it comes to departures from the Source material? Race is seemingly alight to alter. OK. What about gender? Character motives, catchphrases, powers, antagonists. the setting etc. When does it go from an 'adaption' of the comics to a completely original film masquerading as ' fantastic four'. The fact that Fantastic 4's film seems to be the latter rather than the former is what is the root of public hatred.
Buzz3092 plus the film was waste of the late Reg E. Cathey's talent and time
It’s funny how quick you were to blame “racist” trolls even tho that wasn’t the case with Heimdall. I’m black and even I know that a black Johnny Storm and a white Sue Storm is a bit odd.
Exactly.
It's not about race, even... that's the thing. When the source material has a character that's well liked, no one wants to see that character changed. That said, if you have a character that's not really well liked, then that's the one to experiment with. Idris Elba as Heimdall? It was a little weird that a *Norse* god was cast as a black actor, but he pulled it off and the fans loved it.
@@zacktoor1591 Absolutely, but these wackjobs refuse to see the difference. Better to just cry racism and attack people for loving a thing enough to care.
@@zacktoor1591
Even weirder when Heimdall, at least in the original norse mythology, is described as the palest/whitest of the gods
What people really didn't like was that it's a politically motivated change. Nobody likes the current shitty politics in their movies. It's also a large part of why the all female Ghostbusters failed.
@@DerPafferfish thank you for hitting it on the nail in very few words!
Now that caps dead
You might as well bring back the old cast.
Cap isn't dead.
T M he isn’t dead
What the hell are you talking about?
Did you see the movie?
@@CT-5555-7 Dead, old, the point is he's gone
T M he’s not gone
He still is and will alway will be cap
It just bothers me when people don’t see the movie and say inaccurate things
Caps not dead, just old
Caps will be back, he will be young again by 🐜 man time machine gone wrong. U didn't believe but wait
The first two Fox films were not that bad... People forget the original FF comics were like the G / PG versions of the X-Men Books. Their universes and the primary characters within them, are completely different. What we saw in the first two films was actually a pretty decent interpretation of those original books.
Shodaximus exactly
But neither movie got Doom right
I mean... both movies fail to portray the characters right besides The Thing and Surfer, the plot was paperthin and the script on par with the most mediocre MCU, but yeah, if we exclude that, they weren't bad
@@gotmog22 i'm sorry but im currently reading the original ff from Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and i can safely assure that all members of the team were well played. Reed is the smart workaholic. Johnny is the annoying but charmful. Susan i can understand the critiscism. I'm even gonna go further to defend Doom. He is basically Norman Osborn in business origin but at the time it's what they had and the actor still does a solid job making a egotistical self centred jerk like Doom is in the comics. The first movie is almost bit to bit a fantastic four comic.
I’ve gotta say, I have to disagree with the racist trolls comment. I’m a Mexican American and do not like SJW inclusion tactics. The Michael B. Jordan casting was a terrible one, in my opinion. I am all for black characters in roles in movies but they also have their place. Michael B. Jordan was perfect as Killmonger and Black Panther in general is a huge testament to the fact that there is no true “racism” as America stands today. There most certainly are trolls, however, fans being upset that an ALWAYS white character was cast as a black man in a white family is a slap in the face to true fans. It was forced and did not fit into the storyline. Yes, there are blended families in America, but that does not mean it should be forced into an established continuity. There are MANY successful black characters in the comic universe. The notion of erasing white characters to be replaced by black actors is a sad attempt to appeal to social America and their approval rating and profit margin for this movie proved that it has no place being forced into pre-existing stories.
Chefs make while Thieves take.
The advocates for Diversity can't make anything original that makes "a good character of {Example Background Here}" so they have to steal from the successful like parasites.
Mike Gomez Well said, chief
It was actually Blade that started the comic book movie gold rush.
I always liken Blade to 2001: A Space Odyssey. You're correct in stating that it was indeed Blade that created the modern comic book film era, but it was Xmen that popularised it. In the same way that it was 2001 that kickstarted the modern Sci fi era, but it was Star Wars that popularised it.
Robert Moore yeah x-men definitely had more world wide appeal. I was a kid when I saw Blade in theaters. I literally didn’t even know he was a Marvel character until the opening credits. After that I was hooked on comics.
That was a damn good movie back then! The acting, cgi, and plot still hold up. Like the original Jurassic Park or original Star Wars
Blade II is still one of the best comic book movies ever made along with The Crow.
@@DarkCrowI I heartily agree!
Here's something I'M sick of:
There is a tendancy these days to label things. Anyone that disagreed with Michael B Jordan's casting is labeled 'racist'.
Life ain't that simple folks. I disagreed strongly with it. I like MBJ (if I may). I had the same reaction to the rumour of Eddie Murphy playing Robin, Will Smith as Captain America and Idris Elba as James Bond.
I loved the Falcon and I LOVED the Black Panther, but these characters are black.I would object to Brad Pitt playing Blade.
Before you call me a racist, bear in mind that I an black.
My objection are based, not on race, but on the lack of respect shown for the source material.
If you can't call me a racist (you could, but you won't), probably the term man-baby, which seems to cover someone who likes certain things left alone might apply. This should cover the need to label.
However I digress. Before you throw that word 'racist' into your voiced opinion, you should be aware that most all of the black people that I know, despise Hollywood's trend of tokenism.
We are quite able to appreciate original black characters, but do not desire characters to be 'made black'.
More people loved Johnny Storm (and didn't care that he was white), than saw this shitty movie.
Marvel and DC have plenty of original black characters. Maybe we should see some movies about THEM!
Quit making assumption about racism, until you know something about it.
Thank you for your post. You are correct that Marvel and DC have original black and ethnic characters. Am I the only one wondering why the Apache Chief movie isn't out yet?
@Jason Strom Thank you, I think you're right, except for one thing. I'm not sure that Hollywood will learn anything. Already, the bad performance is being blamed on Corona, even though the film came out BEFORE the virus.
The failure of Disney Star Wars (and they have failed) has been blamed on the fans. Anything but a movie executive saying "We messed up" (I think Joel Schmacer did that once. What DID happen to him?).
Even now, they want to reboot Pirates of the Caribbean with a female lead and without Johnny Depp.
That's shit that I'll never see, but it makes me wonder if they'll ever learn.
Maybe Queen Kong?
Agreed
Thats how I feel
Its not a racist thing
Characters are the character they are
So when you change their race or gender it just hits you the wrong way
"I'm not racist cause I'm mad that every white role is given to a black person!!!!!!!!"
I'm drinking your tears, jerkoff.
First he says fans are hateful and toxic for complaining about changing Johnny's race and then he says they didn't honor the source material......Well yea that's exactly why people didn't like the change to a major character. Not because they are all "racist".
But... There are literally people who solely dislike it because he's black
Joshua Jeremy because clearly changing the skin color is unforgivable and not just a minor detail. That’s Racism Light for ya
@@PancakemonsterFO4 Wrong. Did you see Mike B in Creed? Fantastic. Source material is what we are talking about.
@@coritrottman9699 And they are so far into the minority they are not worth mentioning
@@srtmetal7647 that's not true lol
Even though fantastic 4 movies are bad. I do kinda like the first 2.
But they did help 2 actors.
Chris Evans now Captain America
And Michael B Jordan who now killmoger in black panther.
So win for them.
Michael b Jordan would have been better off w.o doing it I mean that man started off on The wire! Was on Friday night lights, went on to do chronicle. He’s not known or sought out for on his work on fucking fantastic 4 lol
This movie does not exist to me.
Dr Doom deserve way more than this crappy scenario.
You just don't kill the Dr Doom, he is smarter than death.
Hey I wanna is your time to do something fun to
"It may go down as one of the worst comic book movies ever".....and then Dark Phoenix came out.
Green Lantern reigns supreme
Captain Marvel: Im going to end both these guys careers
@@alteredbeast7145 Captain Marvel is no where near those levels.
@Angel Reyes it's a low tier MCU film but I would still would watch it over Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2.
Nah... Dark Phoenix is just fine.
Hey, I kind of like Tim Story's Fantastic Four movies! They aren't the best, but they are fun to watch and have a good cast, especally Micheal Chicklas and Chris Evans!
Have you seen the Extended Edition?
Totally agree,they get unwarranted negativity,Jessica Alba was good eye candy but didn't like her Sue Storm adaptation
I agree, Evans and Chiklis were spot-on with their characters, Gruffud and Alba not so much. But like most superhero films the most important ingredient is a great villain, and this film took Dr. Doom, possibly the greatest villain in the MU, and completely turned him to shit.
I rewatched them last year and also think they were not that bad. I actually enjoyed them, but i always are more of a fan of a lighter tone instead of all that dark and gritty shit that ruined the DCEU for so long.
The only thing i still hate is that Galactus is only a giant cloud, that was such a letdown when i saw the movie the first time, but at least now i now what will come so its not that bad anymore.
On another note, in that session (before Infinity War release) i also rewatched the directors cut of the old Daredevil movie, and that also was really quite good. According to IMDB it was maybe the directors cut making it quite better, not sure, can't really remember that much how it was at release.
Same here. Didn't like Galactus being a cloud but still enjoyable of course
Honestly the Fantastic Four movie they did in the 90's that didn't get officially released was better
Not really
@@Brolygarcia92 it's a joke
It’s hilariously ironic that the Roger Corman film is one of the best Fantastic Four films to date.
Its only good because the other ones are bad
@@grape_nationIt's almost as if that's what he's saying
@@TPJH850 lol true
Adam J. Harper But there’s 5 of them though...is Jack-Jack not apart of the family lol
What I remember from back in the early production of F4 was that there was major fan backlash about Johnny and Sue Storm because the original version had their relationship re-written as romantic rather than siblings. Which was quickly changed early on.
No way
Man silver surfer could’ve been so awesome in infinity war or endgame
*SPOILERS*
Seeing captain mary sue destroy the ship..all i could think is That should be Silver Surfer.
Not really it would be overkill
And Adam Warlock
Acid Plug kinda true
Mike T yeah he would’ve been so different
*They should get the Russo brothers to make a fantastic 4 movie*
No
Maritza Piccarillo ok
Maritza Piccarillo 🤡
They are making it i think it's releases in 2022.
jesus vitales fake news
You know you have a problem when you're saying "we need to do a dark, gritty version of the Fantastic Four focusing on body horror."
There's plenty of dark comics out there. The Fantastic Four is not one of them.
And can someone please get Dr. Doom right?
Also can we please turn Kamen Rider Black into a sitcom and Batwoman into a dishonest uncooperative bitch
I know this is late, but the closest thing we got for a "dark" fantastic four, was the ultimate universe. And even them had some bright moments here and there
“We should have a name because there’s four of us and we’re a team now.”
“Sounds fantastic.”
*universe fucking implodes*
I instantly forgot about that reboot. Waiting on Marvel Studios to make it right 👌🏽
Travis Knight would be PERFECT for a fantastic four flick
Have you seen his stop motion flicks he totally nails the tone of the fantastic four
Not gonna happen with today's Disney and M-She-U.
A friend of mine worked on the film and said that Trank was ofter too high to speak, and that there were multiple instances where Trank would basically hotbox his trailer and refuse to come out.
It's not racist to question why Johnny and Sue Storm look nothing alike.
I would be livid if Bishop or Storm were played by white or Asian actors, so why is it okay to turn white characters into other races?
It may have something to do with the fact that between Blade and Black Panther, white America wasn't demanding black superhero franchises. Did Bishop and Storm ever get their own films? Wolverine, Magneto and ProfessorX sold those X-Men films. And most group superhero films had only a handful of black characters.Since it hasn't been a priority to crank out a bunch of black characters since the Windstorm days, Hollywood has to work with what is there to flesh out a cast so its more then a sea of white faces. What many white comic book fans dismiss as "pandering" others see as having a cast be reflective of modern America since the money of blacks, Asians, and Latinos, is just as green as any white fanboy's cash.
AxelQC Because Hollywood sees through mass migration that the west is being made less white, therefore in a few decades when they are approaching minority standards, Hollywood can now market to the new majority by showing how their commitment to blacks,Hispanics etc has been around for a long time so they will continue to have a loving relationship as good customers.
They are basically writing us out of our culture to prepare for the future. Highlighting this obvious fact makes you racist apparently, I wonder if the pilgrims called the native Americans racist as they pillaged and stole their land from them?
blkyank1 to be honest with you I don't like them trying to put black people in any white roles because if you're going to do that that you might as well put a Latino an asian an African or a middle eastern guy in. And yes it is pandering because they've made superheroes gay too because the gay community and other communities are being a bunch of butthurt little anus holes all because they don't feel represented enough in society. I'm sorry but I'm not going to represent any freaks of my country
@@TheLAGopher Yeah...they certainty can't just create new properties.
only racists get triggered lol nobody else gives a flying fuck
I dont understand where this vid got the idea that the reason people didnt agree with the casting of Michael B Jordan was rampant racism. In the hundreds and thousands of threads that I read on multiple places, I never came across a racist reason. There may have been racists somewhere but there were so few that I never saw any.
Rather, the critique is the same reason why people would dislike the casting of a white guy to play Al Simmons/Spawn.
Its because people are stupid and rather have a more easy simple reply to it which would be about race ✌️👉👌
The problem with Micheal B Jordan being the human torch is that him and his sister are supposed to be twins, they should both be the same race whether that race is white or black
I agree man. It's so laisy (and really stupid) to think and to say the reason was because of his race...and blaming fans of being racist, that's really low.
@@osets2117 due to the fact that there ARE biracial twins, I thought they were actually going to do that, which would've been great because everyone seems to think biracial twins is IMPOSSIBLE, but nope, I'm pretty sure they weren't even blood related
Did y'all complain when Samuel L. Jackson was Nick Fury?
5:40 i don't think they were being necessarily racist. i think they saw his casting as disrespectful to the source material and a slap in the face to long time fans. I always wonder what would happen if the situation were reversed and a traditionally black character like falcon was recast with a white actor. What's behind these modern re-casting decisions anyway?.... white guilt or political correctness or both?
Asgardians (nordic gods) are played by blacks but Wakanda gets to be 100% black. Hmm really makes you think...
It's stupid, one can't dislike anything these days because "whaa racism".
If I dislike a woman shooting a man then "whaa sexism, men shoot men all the time why can't women shoot men?"
We live in a fucked up time, where if you dislike anything then there has to be an underlying reason for the prejudice, "you can't just not like something"..
@@donaldblumpf3260 and still the MCU is mostly white... where is your problem?
Would like to ad that these Asgardians are white in the comic books (Heimdal, Valkyrie). Would be like having a Chinese guy play Black Panther.
@Liberty or Death whats so important about a skincolour? Im not talking about specifically carsting diverse people, i am talking about giving the role to the best actor and dont care about the race. If its important because of realism or relationships i understand, but waths important about Tony Stark for example beeing white in the comics? Dont get me wrong, i love Downey jr, and i wouldnt cast anyone else, but if there would be someone better who happens to be black, why not?
1994 Doctor Doom, looks way better lol!
No joke, that movie is better than the 2015 one.
I don't think not liking Johny being black is racist. Comic book characters on screen should look and act as closely to the originals as possible in my opinion. If not then, improve them, but making Johny token black because of hiring quotas is not improving on anything.
The audience doesn't go to the movies to watch a fewer dream about the director's and producer's idea of what the series is, but to see their favorite characters on screen.
"...a director too high to speak,"
Gonna need to hear some more about that one.
I was going to subscribe then I heard the "racist troll" comment. It's not about being racist, it's about Johnny Storm.
Same here. I was kind of liking JoBlo's channel here until he start calling critics 'racist trolls' so he could get those precious virtue points with the SJW crowd.
Same. Race baiting won't get a sub from me because you want to virtue signal.
@@BombalurinaAI Made me subscribe when I heard it, because he's right
Same here. As soon as he said it I thought, "This bull shhht again!!? Really dude?"
LexSus KR same
Fans who thought that the casting of Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm meant that Josh Trank wasn't making a movie faithful to the comics turned out to be right.
Movies don't always need to be faithful tho. This one in particular wasn't the best
Ladd M nothing wrong with that there’s a spider verse so hopefully that demographic is catered to
Micheal B Jordan would have been a great Human Torch if his Pre-Creed roles are anything to go by
But through no fault of his own he sucked as Johnny storm
@@coritrottman9699 I never understand why that's the case, why bother to make a film that isn't faithful to the source material? Seems pointless to base it on material you clearly have disdain for, or even worse you're arrogant enough to believe your bastardisation will be an improvement on the very work you're exploiting. Just plain disrespectful.
@@garethholman1050 I guess you don't really get interpretation of different art or even the fundamentals of elseworld stories. There are plenty of characters and themes that have been changed and the result was positive and successful
HEY it was NOT The X-Men. Are YOU forgetting BLADE? As in totally kickass vampire slayer daywalker played by awesome african american Snipes!
@Lord Amraphel "Everybody disregards Blade". heh.
Blade was a low risk movie that nobody would have cared if it bombed. X-men was at the time the biggest selling comic book of the 80-90s so it had a huge task. Didn't help fox slashed that budget twice!
Blade was sold as a Wesley Snipes action film, not a comic book movie. Nobody was saying "They are finally adapting African American comic book icon Blade. Great." People were saying "Wesley Snipes has a newfilm where he's playing a vampire."
@@TheLAGopher Wow. What a sack of opinionated ignorance. You have no way of knowing what Blade was sold as. Were you part of the direction/production/casting/advertising team? Secondly, did you somehow interview every person in the world and confirm that everyone was saying, "Oh look! Wesley Snipes is a vampire, and it has nothing to do with a comic, a novel or a magazine!" You're an idiot.
43Aquaman dude....a lot of people including myself didn’t even know blade was a comic book character when that movie came out
Tbh I don't think it's racist people got upset they made flamey boy dark skinned, it's like what if they made Blade white? Just doesn't feel right
That mean
Johnny storm being white was neither important nor integral
Then again when you recess EVERYONE as a minority just seems like your trying shove white people out
Draw the line somewhere is what I’m saying
Patoren 3gou ) indeed.
@@satireknight no,
Would you.
We all say we weren't being racist and then we start being racist.
Objecting Johnny Storm being black have nothing to do with being rscist or trolling...it is about WHY it was changed when Johnny had ALWAYS been the brother of the Invisible girl....
Its already explained, this movie doesn't use comic.
someone said i'm racist because i criticize this movie..
That’s racist!! 😆😆
Joseph Erwin
Nice strawman dipshit
How did you criticize it? Because flaming the directors and writers before the movie came out for casting Jordan as Johnny Storm would be exactly the kind of racist shit you would have gotten called out on. Let me break it down, the implicit bias in many people's mind allowed them to do just that because they didn't even actually know if they were related yet. The movie hadn't even come out. If ret-conning is your problem, than pls for your own sanity, don't ever watch anything that has source material which it's being based on. You will be disappointed.
@@noktyn5271 oh God shut the fuck up with that shit, fucking hell you people are annoying as fuck.
Joseph Erwin well how do you criticize it
Bad casting, worst writting, even worst directing... The original two F4 movies were much more fun and enjoyable...
they were cheesy but the characters looked just like the comics and their personality came pretty close too
I agree. I could barely sit through this one. It was slow paced, the acting sucked, the effects and CGI were terrible and the action scenes were a letdown.
I was with you until the "toxic online trolls" nonsense. Fans wanting their characters to remain true to the source material doesn't equate to racism. If a character like Blade was played by a white actor, the same people who complain about "toxic fandom" would be losing their collective shit over it.
Retconing Ben Grim // The Thing,
as a Mercenary Killer~???
Disgraceful & Shameful~!!!
The Racist Accusation is pure bs and you know it by now but you have to admit that the Thing looks pretty good in this movie.
Full on “hacker 4 chan” levels of idiocy
Ikr. JoBlo needs not to pull revisionist history
I hate it when actors are told not to read the comics. That is your source material!! WTF!
"Proving how toxic online fandom is"
Yes, sharing your opinion online is toxic...especially when proven right..
Ghostbusters 2016 comes to mind😏
yes why is johnny storm black , but if you can race swap the human torch why not do that for the black panther or storm or luke cage or blade
Remember all the whining about a white actor on the latest Hell Boy flick that turned out to be a turd of a movie.... I know nothing of the comic, i would had not matter to me or the casual movie goer....
Lmao if they had a white black panther then the whole internet would literally be screaming RACISTS!! But because it’s a black Jonny Storm it’s “progressive”. Double standards and fuckin idiots my dude.
Dude Black Panther is a really terrible example to use, he's supposed to be the king of a country full of black people, which would make even less sense than a brother and sister not being fully blood related.
And yeah it kind of would be racist to change a black hero to white, because black people are super underrepresented in the media.
Most of these comics were created in a far more racist time in society, and as a result, it was extremely rare for writers to create black heroes (black panther came fairly late into the marvel timeline.)
If fans are forever demanding that adaptions follow the source material 100%, we will naturally end up carrying over the racism of the 40's, 40's and 50's (which was the golden age of comics, but also racism) into these adaptions.
Script writers at the moment are in a tough spot. They have the job of translating a white dominated comic industry into a modern movie series, but if you change so much as the sound of Reeds farts, you will upset a portion of the fan base.
@@jman72898 SJW's in a nutshell, man. Im still entertained by Brie Larsons hypocricy taking on the Captain marvel role as a white blonde woman which is totally progressive in their insane world ( not)
Why is this hypocritical however and not cliche? Because Captain Marvel was once a black woman. But Brie ain't THAT progressive to turn down that paycheck :D
So i'm going to have to be the one to point out BP was a white guy originally?
Why is it bigoted if you want a comic book character to look like he did in the comics?
Becauses it’s easier to call people who disagree with you racist then actually counter their point
Cause it's a petty thing to get pissy about when all of this is fiction to begin with.
@@Bluntteh People with homestuck profile pics dont deserve an opinion
@@Bluntteh people who think like you about established characters and their lore, shows how little they care about the comic books franchises that people have kept alive and supported for generations
The human torches race is irrelevant to the character. Comic books characters change all the goddamn time between series and writers. Only one reason someone would be upset over something like that.
Racist trolls? Really? Not following the comics was a big mistake, so these trolls were right, and it could have had nothing to do with racism. The nerve of some of these "critics".
Turning Johnny Storm black and it's subsequent backlash as racist, is a little short sighted. For 50 years, the character was white. Changing his skin color is huge.
Remember, you're making a movie based on an existing source. The fan base which freaks out if you you change the color of their uniforms.
Changing a skin color changes the entire story.
If your not ok with iceman being gay now after 50 years of banging girls your a homophobe
Why are you lying? You don't care about accuracy or sticking to the source material, only when it's about an actor not being white. That's when you care the most, there is no story alteration in movies that makes you more or equally upset. Be honest!
@@Jadinass Wah wah wah, I can't create my own characters so I'll use someone else's and fuck history.
@@Jadinass no if black panther was white I would think it was equally a bad decision
They were racist and I've noticed that it perfectly okay to whitewash characters. But these racist incel Fanboys want to scream and holler if a black character play something they feel only a white boy should be able to play.
I was today years old when I found out there was a recent Fantastic 4 film.
BeefPapa 😂😂😂😂
im two days behind you apparently
That IG page is f_cked up bruh.
I thought it was just me LOL. No idea that this film dropped
U not a true fan then
"racist trolls' pleeaaasee, this was a terrible casting all round and a pretty dull movie overall.
Even though it was bad I liked the 2005 version 100 times more than that garbage reboot if only for getting the casting right.
I watched this movie hungover in the theater, it was enough to push me into depression for the rest of the day and i can still remember actually feeling nauseous at the awfulness i was witnessing.
I loved the horror effects of this movie. I watched it 8 times. It felt real
excuse me; but what were those "horror effects"? that Reed stretches for 3s? give me a fucken break
@@danielmartini3229got a badass over here
Quit trolling. You did NOT like that piece of crap movie.
"The racist trolls came out in drones." I guess that's one interpretation.
Capn Cummings I call them super fanboys, people so obsessed about something any change is seen as the devil. The most prominent one in pop culture being the comic book guy from the simpsons
"racist trolls" = persons of differing opinion
"Droves"
It's not racist trolls that were upset about Johnny its was the fact that it wasnt the family that so many of us love. Why they used the Fantastic 4 name for a film that was not the Fantastic 4. It's in the same breath as Howard the Duck!
People throwing around then n word arnt racist trolls?
@@sofakingonmynuts1438 no?
it's just a word dude
Its not just a word when people use it specifically for one thing, we alllll know what that one thing is, stop being naive
@@sofakingonmynuts1438 we alllll know?
care to educate me?
@@sofakingonmynuts1438 Because as far as I can tell, it's being used as a directed insult. They aren't saying it because they hate all blacks, they're saying it because they think it will hurt him specifically. If he were openly gay they'd be calling him an aidsfaggot. If he were a woman, some sort of cunt.
People use the word they think will cause the greatest hurt feelings, they go for the jugular. But that doesn't even approach an indication that they hate everybody that their target bears some cosmetic resemblance to. Trolls maybe, racist no.
Take for example @Riverslidebishop's comment, which doesn't seem to be showing up for me now but is in my notifications, where he says that I'm "so bereft of braincells that he wears diapers and a peppa pig helmet to school."
Does this mean that Riverslidebishop is an ableist pig who thinks cripples should be gassed and retards deserve a bullet? I don't think so, I think he picked words that he thought would hurt. He doesn't know my race, orientation, or anything like that, so he went for intelligence. But by your logic, he's an ableist troll. He used language to indicate that I am a negative example of the mentally disabled, therefore he hates the mentally disabled. That's you, sofaking. That's all you.
They haven't aged well, but I kinda liked the 2000s versions. Yeah, they were a bit shlocky, but the characters were well played, especially all the knockabout between Michael Chiklis's Thing and Chris Evans' Human Torch.
I disagree, I absolutely loved the first two movies!! They were FAR from forgettable
Compared to those two this is definitely more forgettable
Glad I found someone like me who loves the first two movies.
"And the racist trolls came out in droves"
Oh FFS. Fans are tired of politically correct re-engineering of beloved characters. And we damn sure don't want a lecture about it from JoBlo.
Douglas [ ] Step 1: Convince these people that race does not exist but all humans are one race with different skin colors, so they will believe they will be replaced “by themselves but different skin color” Step 2: Create fake reasons why immigrants should come to live with that people (skilled workers, guest workers, refugees, students, family reunification…) Step 3: Ban statistics on race and religion among different age sections of that nation Step 4: Repeat the same lie that foreigners are just 5 or 7 percent and will not change your nation Step 5: Give huge welfare money to foreigners to finance their useless presence or finance their breeding like rabbits of children Step 6: allow every foreigner to bring his brothers, sisters, parents, cousins, wives and all family, who also will bring their relatives as well Step 7: Give nationalities to all these foreigners Step 8: promote all the movements that reduce the birth-rate of the natives such as anti-family movies, abortion, easy-sex, homosexuality, transcendentalism, individualism, Step 9: Inflict poverty conditions on the native people by stripping them from their hard-work money to finance the welfare system. In France, Germany, Sweden, a young person who works will loose almost 32% of his/her monthly salary to the government which will make him/her reluctant on making Children or forming couples Step 10: Promote race-mixing, miscegenation between the foreigners and the natives in every movie, every TV show, every cartoon for children, every education book, every publicity Step 11: Ban free -speech about foreigners, Islam or race by imposing political correctness and social organizations that fight “racism” so the natives will shut their moths and accept their own genocide Step 12: Promote the cultures of foreigners, promote Islam, promote all other races cultures and identities except the culture of the natives and Christianity Step 13: Jail the leaders, the thinkers, the intellectuals & writers who are trying to awaken the masses by labeling them far-right Nazis who are spreading “hate” or “terror” Step 14: Make the natives hate themselves, their history and all the great achievements of their ancestors. Re-write their History to destroy their pride in their race, ancestors or culture so they will not care about being replaced Step 15: Promote Guilt in the brains of natives, that they are responsible for all the miseries of other races & nations Step 16: Promote individualism, the lies of global warming & overpopulation and promote humanitarianism. So the natives will stop having babies, instead they think about global warming or they want to adopt children from other countries of different races Step 17; Ban free-speech about the real rulers of that nation, the J who are behind this sophisticate Genocide that will take just few generations to be accomplished
i'm only tired of it being done stupidly. if things were kept "correct" there would ONLY be white people.
Heimdall, decent casting because nobody really knows him. Johnny Storm adopted??? BULLCORN
I don't think disliking the fact that they made a white character black is racist. Because like you said, its a huge change to the source material and that's the problem. They completely changed his character and that was the issue, not because "racists" were upset
That's their excuse for lack of creativity and wanting to cater to the crowd that doesn't even read comics. I'm black(obvious channel pic) and thought it was a bad idea. I don't need original characters to race swap to make me feel good. I just want a good story and adaptation of classic characters.
If they'd gone all out on "character development, science, science fiction, then enough action to get by. All in that order. It would have been amazing. The can't wasn't "wrong" or "bad"
They were little older than college graduates pulling together for a science theory, and proving it with results. That is who they are anyway. Scientists with many different backgrounds. So a Marvel movie focused around characters doing cool stuff, and not necessarily beating each other up is a good movie. The previous fantastic 4 weren't "Bad" just not aswell written, or as good as was expected of them.
Marvel tried to break the mold, Again! and I think they could have with the right attentions to detail.
Maybe a sober Director too.
The Channing Tatum Gambit part of this video is so damn funny now because of Deadpool & Wolverine 😭
1:22 Still the most faithful looking Doctor Doom ever placed on screen.
I disagree with your statement about the casting about as much as everybody in these comments and I'm black but I'm shocked no one could look past that statement that I think you made only to protect yourself as a public figure and see this was a solid video thanks for explaining why this movie ended up so terrible.
Fan4stic was a complete mess and maybe because of that disaster FOX gave Ryan Reynolds complete control over Deadpool.
Nah, Deadpool was greenlited because Rottman was fired. He was the cause of all the nonsensical BS in XMen and Fant4stic
@@KonEl-BlackZero Good riddance then
@@makatron Not so fast...he's now in charge of Sony Pictures and is on his way to fucking up Spiderman.
"hateful and toxic" ? we dont call people hateful and toxic for being zealous about a vintage car with mint ORIGINAL paint.
these are fantasy characters and some people just want no deviations, why act like its some sort of "hateful" community? its just some peoples taste.
You know the people saying “it wasn’t about race” arent helping their case when they rant on and on about diversity being forced while never explains what makes diversity natural on the first place
Patoren 3gou ) yeah.
@@patoren3gou653 you saying diversity is unnatural?
What made the comic book great was that it was about a very dysfunctional family. I didn't see any family in it.
Lol, ah yes the old and faithful "racists trolls" argument, so I'm guessing you'd be ok if they turned Storm into a blond white chick right? 'Cause I wouldn't...but darned I forgot I'm a racist troll.
Well, to be fair, you probably are.
Peter Gorman yah ok there soyboi
@@PeterG00000 Dude , you cant just change the original source just because you want , it doesnt matter if was a white guy replaced or a black guy replaced, it is still wrong.
Peter Gorman and a sarcastic asshole as well
@@podrepodrinho5592 My rule with all that, is that you can't just change shit about a character 'just because you want'. There has to be a justifiable reason behind that decision. Like when they cast Zazie as Domino. I couldn't understand why they'd cast a black woman as a stark white mercenary, but then I saw the movie. "Oh, they didn't just make Domino black, Zazie Beetz gave a fun, charming, and enjoyable performance, and she just so happened to be black". Oh, how I wish all casting decisions (and Hollywood choices in general) were made with such good, pure intent.
The thing is, it doesn't really work the other way around; you can't really cast a white actor as a black character. Firstly, because that would be wildly controversial, and would cause serious backlash. Secondly, because most black characters are who they are *because* they are black. Example: Black Panther, the monarch of an African country, who's character is deeply ingrained in African culture. Not to mention it would look awfully wierd for a white guy to be ruling a entire country of black people. Even on the smaller scale: for a white prince to be born from black parents into a black family, with a black sister, and so on. Even if you made all of his blood relatives white, you'd have a white royal family that rules over a black nation.
Even in today's relatively progressive and accepting society, it's not a good look, and I don't think any amount of acting ability or 'charm' would make a change like that justifiable.
I was just talking about this the other day with some friends. While I do enjoy what the MCU has brought to the table; I miss the days when superhero movies were faithful without trying to be some big spectacle designed to make all of the money.
5:40 It had nothing to do with racism. It's about sticking to lore. We can't have established characters anymore because they have turned them into walking templates whose race, gender, whatever can be changed at will.
I wish I was in that meeting full of white dudes "lets have a black guy, people love diversity right now"
They did that with Super Man casting Lawrence Fishburn as Perry White as well.
So you’re mad about nick fury huh?
Gregor Clegane it’s not necessarily about race swapping so much as it has to do with continuity. Johnny and Sue Storm are siblings, though I guess one can be adopted without the story being affected. Michael B Jordan has the best performance of the whole cast. Also, Marvel changed Nick Fury’s race in the comics a few years before the movie’s came out.
Criticizing a casting choice that is based on race isn't always inherently racist.
Found that guy.
@@sherrybell3924 Sure did! Everyone knows it's ok to race switch white characters. They should have gender swapped them too, then it really would have been a hit.
Yeah if it's the reverse races then it's cultural appropriation
Maybe JoBlo can read their minds. *Did you consider that?!* Of course not!
I love the actor but hated this choice. Also I'm sick of it being all these whites becoming black.
Would you rather be a black version of a hero or a black hero?
Frozone is great and well loved I would gladly see a movie about him.
If you think this is the only problem remember that most people hated Wolverine with an Australian accent.
Whenever you start a sentence with " But to keep costs low" your film is usually doomed from the start. (No pun intended.)
I wonder if they cast black panther as a white guy if you would call the people that were mad about it "racist trolls"... probably not.
Or white blade or shaft
@@robinenbernhard
Exactly, changing the race of a character who has a definitive race is such bullshit. Complaining about it isn't racist, it's reasonable.
Not as an adaptation but more how to improve this as a movie:
1) Show Sue and Johnny's childhood backstories (if we are supposed to care about the main 4 we must know them)
2) Make a less cold relationship (Jaime Bell is a great actor but he doesn't even act as Ben, Michael B Jordan tries his best to be like a rebel youngster, Kate also feels distant from others and Miles also tries his best as a scientific youngster).
3) Give solid motivations to the villain (I can see Trank is a fan of AKIRA based on this and his previous movie), so what's more menacing than an outcast with God Complex?? In the final movie there's a vague attempt of development, and even a full backstory shall have worked.
4) More danger in third act. The only battle is also the final battle and that's weird even for an action movie. Classics like Die Hard and Ghostbuster show the hero(es) on the most difficulty levels before facing the Final Boss.
5) My personal: more comic book easter eggs (there were rejected drafts involving HERBIE robot, the FantastiCar, a cameo of Alicia Masters and Tim Blake Nelson's character turning into Mole Man as cliffhanger for sequel.
Hey l know - let's go right ahead and change Black Panther to a deaf Swedish transgender albino while we're at it and still fully invested in wrecking the legacy of classic iconic characters with fake and shallow identity politics.
Right. It's a cop out. I'm black and didn't want to see a black Johnny Storm either. If you want more diverse characters on screen make new ones... just that simple.
Exactly. I'm Caucasian but would be highly insulted if l were black. God forbid anybody should take the time and effort and employ some real thinking and creativity in crafting interesting new black (or other for that matter) superheroes. Oh no can't have that. Nope, so now theres even some insane talk about recasting Superman and Batman as black. Uh news flash they're not black. And IT DOESN'T FREAKING MATTER. It's off the chain nuts. So Black Panther and Luke Cage are created and after that the well is somehow dried up????? Are you freaking kidding me????? There are endless possibilities for new diverse characters without having to CHANGE iconic superheroes from one race or ethnicity to another - just to win fake, empty, and utterly meaningless PC points with the feel good sensitivity mob.
@@frankberst9849 What! A black Batman and Superman? Hell naw... Yeah they will get all the praise from sjw's (who has no intention on watching it)while bombing at the box office because no one in their right mind will except that sh*t. Their excuse will be that the critics are racists and caused low sales.... Hollyweird is fried.
So, so true. And so, so sad. Superman and Batman are white. Period. Black Panther and Hero For Hire are black. Period. Wonder Woman is female. Period. And all of the above are straight. Period. End of story. And none of that should offend anyone who is even marginally sane.
TOM Rothman, not TIM Rothman, is or was the head of Fox (He’s the Tom that Deadpool says “Hi, Tom! to at the end of the earliest “leaked footage trailer that got Deadpool green lit)
Wow! You’re exactly right. I must have flubbed that in recording and didn’t even notice all through out editing. Whoops, thanks for the catch. And Deadpool is next, so that line makes so much sense now. Thanks again!
Ian Michael Jentzsch No worries! Excellent video, by the way...Keep ‘em coming!
The only racist thing is that they didn’t cast a black girl as invisible woman. And stop hiring kimberg. He’s been apart of all these flops. Don’t you think he’s part of the problem?
Bring back the cast of the 2005 version. I liked that one.
Not liking race swapped characters doesn’t make you a bigot lol. Would you demean black ppl for getting upset if black panther or blade were race swapped? Make new and interesting characters rather than race swap existing ones.
Remember when people said there's no way The Fantastic 4 (and X-Men) will go back to Marvel? LOL
well i never doubted it i always knew X-Men and fantastic 4 would go back to marvel i always had faith that marvel would get them back
After Captain Marvel I would prefer that it didn't happen.
"We don't want to do what Marvel is doing with the MCU, we want this to be dark and gritty." - Idiots who have since been fired.
Just like with characters cast with actors of a race not intended for the character. You can't make a movie with a tone that was never intended for the source material. That's what Zack Snyder and his Fanboys can't get through ass-inserted heads
Well I'm black and I dont see why tf they would cast a black dude as Johnny Storm. It completely changes the origins.
Especially since he and Sue are siblings
@@Ben-yj8ye exactly! When I first saw the commercial I was like so are they adopted now or what? I knew i wasnt gonna see it. I feel like you can take some liberties with less popular or known characters. Like if somebody made jubilee black or white or Hispanic it wouldn't matter much but you cannot make Wolverine a black woman and expect your product to sell well. Racism has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Never understood the race and gender swap thing in Hollywood. Except for political reasons of course. Also never understood why source material get disregarded so often, when the original comics had so much to draw from.
Marvel's first family can't seem to catch a break. Why not follow the Russo bros. concepts to save this franchise. otherwise, leave this family in comicdom
before you say thanks to the success of X Men and Spider Man make sure to mention Blade next time which came before both of those
Blade launched the MCU, no matter how many time i watch it is still awesome, sure some cgi didn't age that well but still entertaining.
Why discard any criticism of a black human torch as racism... when people want fidelity to the comics, where a black human torch has never been seen, WTF?